I'm not about to march into an ethical debate - honestly I just want to know whether it is right to think of israili's as jewish? In some countries you might hear that the country is (for example) a christian country but when you look into the demographics you realise that in fact the majority are either agnostic or without religion. Is Israil a predominantly religious population? Or like much of Europe which is usually a faithless population?
I think Israel's pretty mixed, however, before you judge the Israeli people, you might want to remember that the American people are often at odds with their government. Why judge Israel differently? You might also look to the precedent set by the US gov't for hunting down terrorists, and notice that this is really a continuation of that trend. You might also ask yourself if you're judging Israel by different standards than you would another country. You might also consider the size of Israel compared to the Arab nations around it. You might also consider that Israeli law is not based on Judaism, but rather has more in common with many Western govts. Now, this is not to say that I think the amount of force Israel has been using is justified. Just some thoughts to ponder. Dauer
I said in my post I wasnt going to judge them Oh ok - thanks but they sound like you marched off into an ethical debate which I'm not even considering
Where? I didn't see you say that anywhere in your post. Even if you had said it, there's no guarantee that on some gut level you don't judge them, or even on more than a gut level. You said you're not about to march into an ethical debate, but that statement in itself says nothing whatsoever about whether or not you've already made a decision for yourself about Israel's ethics and the connection of those ethics to its people. If you have made such a decision, then it is entirely within reason for me to present to you some thoughts to ponder which might stand contrary to your current way of thinking, and this in no way necessitates an ethical debate. I certainly was not preparing for one, especially since you said you're not interested in it. Dauer
Just looking at straight demographics - from what I've been looking at, about 75-80% of Isreal is Jewish.
Ethics !!!!! Is this a windup, or are you really a kind of rabid rottweiler dog looking for a fight? I dont really give a toss what you think my opinions on israel are, orwhat you think on israel either- mainly because it would be pointless for me to argue with you since you are obviously not rational in your thinking -I dont need to explain myself to you ! Thanks bodyelectric I just didnt know where else to look for that kind of info.
I can say something about ethics without getting into an ethical debate. Neither, actually. Although I'm making note of the fact that you use colorful pseudo-analogies to try to make those whose dialogue displeases you look bad. I was actually saying, and I think it's quite clear, that there is a difference between you and I getting into an ethical debate and me making some open-ended statements related to the ethical situation at hand. As you can see, it didn't lead into an ethical debate. This debate now seems to be over whether or not I was initiating an ethical debate and other, similar matters. I haven't once insulted you, but this is the second time in this post that I can count that you have directly insulted me. That seems a little unbalanced. Please try to show me the respect I show you. Thank you. Of course you don't, and as I said earlier, I was never looking for a debate. I didn't even really expect you to respond, but here we are just the same. That doesn't exactly tell you what you need to know. A good number of the Jewish population is secular. That's why earlier in this thread I said it's pretty mixed, which is true. I don't know what the ratio is of really observant Jews to secular Jews. There are also Jews in Israel who identify as secular but who in other parts of the world wouldn't necessarily be considered secular. For example the observance of some holidays is much more widespread in Israel simply because that's the culture. Dauer
