American history---- European history

Discussion in 'History' started by Dutmala, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. Dutmala

    Dutmala Guest

    The governements of the countries in Europa are trying to get one big European union just like the states of america are a union.

    I think it's ok for the Americans to have a union because they got all the cultures together with one purpose, building a new land.
    For Europe this is different. Each country has its own history and culture. We, in the Netherlands, are much different from the French. And we like to keep it that way. we don't want them to have a vote in our governement (which happens indirectly now).

    We are different because we have a different history. Together we destroyed the Roman Empire, we have builded a new empire under Charles the Great and after that we fought eachother manly because of religious and royal quarrels.

    We can't be a union because we are different cultures with different ideas about mostly social things.

    My question to the Americans is:
    Do you agree with me that the big difference between the american union and the European union is that we have history that goes back for a long time and that your forefathers broke with that history to start all over?

    I hope you guys give me an hounest answer with good reasons why you agree or not agree.

  2. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Im not an American but english, so I hope you wont mind me commenting.

    It looks to me that the Uk may well seek to exit the EU in the near future. Im not happy about that, as I do believe that some union in Europe is desirable for many reasons.
    However, the so called euro sceptics here are concerned about any move towards a federal European super state, to use their terminology.
    I think this is not something that is ever likely to come about, because of the reasons you give of different cultures, languages etc.

    In the past, I used to think it might be a good thing, as it would create a big global power that could match the USA and China, soon India too. I even saw left leaning policy from Brussels as a way of reigning in the excesses of the British right wing. And of course, thats one reason they want out.

    Given the trouble with the euro, and much resistance to dictates from Brussels in countries that are broke, it seems to me that the whole future of the eu is in the balance.
    And a super state without the UK would be easily dominated by Germany, and to a lesser extent, France.

    The USA is a different case altogether. Although there are differences in different states, there has always been I think, a definite sense of an American identity, as well as belonging to a given state. One language is also obviously a factor too. One set of laws from the outset.

    Many of the early settlers left the old world because of intolerance or poverty, seeing America as a refuge, and a country in which a new life could be built.

    The civil war, one of the big events of US history, was fought on the basis of keeping together that union of the states laid out in the constitution.
    I doubt many would fight for some hazy notion of being a European.

    Just a few thoughts there.
  3. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Maybe should add that its entirely possible that the United Kingdom itself may soon be disunited, as the Scots are having a vote on full independence next year.
  4. roamy

    roamy Senior Member

    good luck ta the scots.
  5. Sig

    Sig Senior Member

    No, I do not agree. American history IS European history and the two cannot be separated. On top of this, the American Union was formed not from many different cultures but from, almost overwhelmingly, a single culture: that of Great Britain (read Anglo-Saxon). All those other cultures came after the fact.
  6. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    I don't agree either. Why do you say a person breaks with their history when they leave a country exactly? I don't see that.

    And wouldn't destroying the roman empire and building a new one together under Charles the great be a great headstart for unifying instead of a reason against it? Or wasn't that why you included it in your post? Also the we you speak of is not the whole netherlands. Lots of dutch people like the idea of an united Europe.
  7. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    The system in America though is very different from the UK. What Americans got away from is the legacy of feudalism which still lives on over here.
  8. Sig

    Sig Senior Member

    Fair enough. Still, my point was that our culture upon formation was very much Anglo-Saxon.
  9. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Yes I hope they go for it.
  10. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

  11. Sig

    Sig Senior Member

    Personally, I'd like to see the United Kingdom remain intact.
  12. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    I dont like the increasingly centralized power of Westminster. Often it seems they are not interested in anything other than London and the South.
    Myself Id like more autonomy for regional government.

    It will be interesting to see what happens if the Scots go, but want to remain in the EU, while England and Wales leave.
  13. desert-rat

    desert-rat Senior Member

    I dont know if you Europeans can keep your E.U. togher . The USA is made of many different people . Most speak English , but not all . Most people that come hear from some where else and stay think of them selvs as an American . We are perty much united under the idea of belonging to one nation . I am sure the people from Canada , or Mexico , also think of them selve as citzens of there country . For many of the reasons you stated I would think it would be hard to give the idea of belonging to a country over belonging to a united Europe . It would be like if we removed the borders to Canada and Mexico and called our selve North Americans .
  14. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider


    "the problem with scotland is that it's full of scots" :D
  15. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Well, the man there knew how to deal with those rebellious northerners.
    And maybe thats one reason a lot of Scots want to go it alone.
  16. roamy

    roamy Senior Member

    fairplay ta great for the scots ta have their country back.
  17. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    I'd rather kill myself than join a union with the Russians and French.
    Yep, fuck that.
  18. odonII

    odonII O

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