Alexandira Ocasio-Cortez is a result of Trump

Discussion in 'Politics' started by unfocusedanakin, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Unless they move, which can be really unfortunate and unwanted. But I also hate it if this (the coal miners ending up unemployed) would be the primary reason to keep coal mines open.
     
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  2. WritersPanic

    WritersPanic Greasing up my Staff Member

    Yes, that would be a stupid reason to keep any business going. Not that it matters though, the coal will stay in the ground for decades and be just as ready to burn as ever. I think a better plan is to gasify coal, using steam. Then feed the synthetic gas to turbine engines, and collect the exhaust heat in a boiler. Use the steam from the boiler to run a steam turbine and to gasify coal. Add carbon sequestration, catalytic NOx reduction and sulfur scrubbing and you're on the way to a cleaner system than using methane (natural gas) alone.

    This was made reality at a 25MW pilot plant. But when a major plant was attempted in Mississippi, it was instantly hampered by cronies and crooks disguised as consultants, lawyers, project managers, engineers and the chick that fetches coffee. It was way over budget and late as well. Last I heard they were running it on methane with no carbon capture. The plant was designed during the Bush years and went out of control when coal became a dirty word during the Obama years.

    The thing is, we best learn how to burn it clean now. Because it will surely cost a lot more in the future when nobody is around to make it work. We can't simply forget coal exists. It will wait longer than we can. I think the need for energy will be so great that we begin tearing up asphalt roads to refine fuel from it.
     
  3. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    I do feel empathy for them. But I also don't think we need to bend over backwards to keep them employed. With the example of coal we have waited far too long and we kiss too much ass. Rather then say "you need to learn new skills" we pander to a small demographic. So I get frustrated when they ignore the current world and think their job is going to last.

    Like they make it our problem they drop out in the 10th grade since the mine pays $30 an hour. Now they say they can't get a new job. Yes true since YOU made a choice. We did not make the choice to not learn.

    A capitalist system rewards skill not handouts.
     
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  4. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Best Member

    You may not realize this, unfocusedanakin, but there are people out there who love hard work, even mining. Their minds aren't such that they can be satisfied sitting in front of a computer all day long coding.

    They also aren't particularly interested in your entire academic world. But I hope they do join in, because they'll probably put all of you snobs to shame if they do.
     
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  5. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Best Member

    You know, I know blue collar workers who are obsessive about their work. Workaholics really. And they're extremely intelligent and creative in their work. If you could get them to start coding, you might find it's you who is out of a job.

    Me, I don't think this shit is fun. I come from a poor, dysfunctional family, and there was just too much chaos for me, personally, to feel I could succeed in college. But I do blue collar work anyway. But these guys I work with...most of them fucking love it.
     
  6. Meliai

    Meliai Evenstar

    I dont really see why yall are pitting blue collar and white collar workers against each other

    Or why people do in general

    The world needs plumbers and construction workers just as much as it needs doctors and engineers
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  7. lode

    lode One Man Orgy

    I certainly would not.

    My concern is that automation will take away many jobs a little too quickly. The largest employer of men in the US is transportation, and those jobs will be automated away. It seems like ideally we could plan for this, instead of waiting to react.
     
  8. WritersPanic

    WritersPanic Greasing up my Staff Member

    I share this concern. The greed industry is fine with having the rug pulled out from under American workers at the last possible minute. Retail really stepped on their own dicks when they tried the employee shuffle en masse. Circuit City and Radio Shack literally fired their top performing sales staff and a lot of middle managers. Then they allowed them to re-apply for newly defined positions, at lower wages.

    What neither company realized is that brand loyalty works both ways and Americans have alternatives to doing business with blatant back stabbers. It wasn't an organized boycott, it was far more effective. Toys R Us was just managed very very badly, but they still surprised employees with store closings and joblessness which surely hastened their demise.

    Automation is the perfect crime really. Machines can't be blamed for shit. Even the people who build and program them are able to avoid being in the thick of the transfer, machines in, people out (on their asses). I saw this with a factory in middle Georgia that was moving to Mexico. It employed hundreds of people who made car stereos for GM. I was there as a consultant to capture the dismantling of the equipment so it could be setup properly in Mexico.

    What I was expecting next was to document the assembly of the new equipment (wave soldering machines, CNC PCB machines etc.) that was in the warehouse. This is what everyone expected. Once the old equipment was gone, the shop floor was like a massive rave nightclub. Barren, gray and poorly lit. Everyone got the rest of the week off, including me. When I drove in Monday, the gate was closed and people were parked along the highway. The plant was closed and we could see from the street that the warehouse was empty. My boss called to let me know the contract was terminated, after I had driven 40 miles. He had another gig for me, so I bounced back. Exactly two people I knew kept their software jobs in the office next to the empty factory. The rest were discarded. The new equipment was staged there as a ruse. It's real destination was Reynosa.

    But I've seen this sort of shit most of my life. When the machines come, the transition will be just as fast. It will be hardest for people on the lower rungs of the employment spectrum, but it will ripple throughout company departments. Fewer employees means fewer HR people, fewer accounting people etc. With a world economy built on a house of cards, it may be the machines that lead to the very worst of times for people. The burger making machine holds no malice toward humans, so again, blame can't be effectively assigned.

    However, with the machines come the sabots.
     
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  9. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Member

    sure it can. you can blame the corporate BoDs who seek only profits.
     
  10. WritersPanic

    WritersPanic Greasing up my Staff Member

    True, if you can get past security. The people doing this are way up in the tower, shielded from the hoi polloi. Like mobsters they try to stay in the shadows. Every so often you get one that's sheer narcissist, like Elizabeth Holmes, who gives us a peek behind the curtain.

    Sure, we can attempt to "shame" McDonald's, KFC and Dairy Queen for putting millions of people on the street (including managers who have been there 10 and 20 years), but it won't get much traction. Consumers will be more than happy to see the rude, surly and spit-happy malcontents replaced with a robotic arm that hands them their perfectly-prepared every time meal. And that's who pays the bill. Even the people who lost their jobs will be driving through to get a Big Mac with their unemployment money.

    Those jobs won't be coming back. Neither will the factory jobs republicans keep bleating about (in a futile attempt to look good for unions). How can they when those factories, 40,000 of them, were dismantled and shipped to China, Mexico and Bangladesh. Oddly enough, the pollution went with them. Nobody will be paying to bring them back, so factories in the US will be few, and automated. A CNC cell run by 1 person does the work of 2 to 5 people, so factory workers will need computer skills as well as machining knowledge. But again, those jobs will be few and far between.
     
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  11. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    You mean the driverless trucks and drones, with which nothing can go wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wron.., wro..., wrrr---sput, sput.
     
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  12. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter


    If society has no need for a job it's just the market flowing. I don't mean to sound rude I just feel happy I made the choices I did in life. I had a full scholarship to very respected school. I know not everyone had that. But still you make a choice.

    It's sad you would rather look down on me than address the real issue,. Anyone can learn they just either feel they should not (it makes you liberal) or with the American college syetem it's too expensive. Off topic but that's why I like Euro style public tax for school.

    Call me a snob but I can and have done their job. They can't do mine.

    Danger/risk is not a skill. Too many think they are compensated for skill when it's just dude no one is dumb enough to do this to their family and body but you so they have to pay OK.
     
  13. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Best Member

    I'm sure only a super-intelligent, college educated genius like you can do your job. Certainly, there is no one in the entirety of the working class who is smart enough to do it. We're all dummies, because we didn't go to college. We're stupid, because you're highly satisfied with yourself and can't understand that not everyone has any desire to be anything like you. We're dumb, because we don't want the things that you want.

    You don't have to go to college to learn. Actually, from what I can see in this thread, it tends to make you stupid.
     
  14. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    yeah we need one to build it and one to maintain it

    two very different skill sets. This is why I am annoyed. Don't over estimate your worth. You can go to school for 6 months and fix an engine I made. I can also fix the engine I just can't be bothered can you design it so it runs for 20 years and 200,000 miles? But of course we need people to fix things.
     
  15. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Best Member

    I can neither build the engine nor fix the engine. I'm not interested in doing either of those things. But I do know working class people who, if they set their minds to it, could do both. And maybe an AI will come along that can do both as well. You don't know.

    Most people's jobs really aren't threatened by robotics at the moment. I see no reason to start panicking. I certainly see no reason to start telling the working class that they're overestimating their worth. I mean, how condescending can you get? And then you wonder why we steer clear of your circles...

    If robotics were truly a threat, maybe more working class people would start going to college. If they could afford it, I mean. But even if we did, I'm sure you'd still find some reason why you're better than us all.
     
  16. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter


    I never said any of those things but in my case yeah you probably could not do my job unless you had the required classes. I can't do open heart surgery for example I'm not a doctor.

    You seem like you have some educational insecurities yourself. Is this why I upset you? Like you dropped out of college when you failed so it's not for you? I am not trying to be ass. It's just that anyone I've ever met who put down college either failed or could not afford it.

    So they tell themselves it's cool I am still smart. Which you sure can be, just not "smart" when it comes to getting many jobs.

    I think you are deep into a tribal system a us vs. them. You have decided I hate or don't see value in people without a 4 year degree. Not the case.

    My issue with people who think college is a waste of time and ONLY trades are valid. So I showed the example of maintenance vs. design. You need a smart enough guy to design in society or there is nothing to fix.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 9:10 PM
  17. I'minmyunderwear

    I'minmyunderwear voice of sexy

    i have a master's degree and i put down college all the time.

    i'm not against higher education by any means, but the way it's currently run as basically a scam to milk a ton of money out of young adults with little to no return on investment is really pretty disgusting.
     
  18. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    The issue of college as a private for profit business is not the same as having a fetish for jobs that don't require college.

    If the profits stops you from going you are committing to failure.
     
  19. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Best Member

    No, I have a problem with condescending people in general. I have a problem with people who think they can measure intelligence or intellect by someone's position or path in life. And this doesn't just go for college educated people. In fact it goes for most people. People measure others by their so-called "success" rather than how gentle of a person they are. As an artist and a writer, it doesn't really matter to me that I'm not surrounded by successful people. I could come to know and understand that, or I could be a part of my world and know how to write about that instead. As far as subject matter goes, I prefer my life and what I know and am discovering.

    I tried college for a little while. I didn't fail, but I dropped out. It just didn't interest me. Maybe if I had, I'd be treated with more respect, but that's part of learning, too. At the end of the day, you can't hold people to too high of a standard, or you'll become a hateful person. As far as the ability to think outside of the box goes, I don't think there are very many intelligent people. Most people are obsessed with the forms that be.

    I don't have a problem with college in itself, though. It can do a lot of people a lot of good, but I don't consider these people to necessarily be the best or the brightest just because they went to college. In fact, a lot of them are, sorry, stupid. And a lot of non-college educated folks are very smart. I don't like condescending people of any variety, though.
     
  20. I'minmyunderwear

    I'minmyunderwear voice of sexy

    that's true, but in my experience most people who put down college do it for that reason rather than fetishization of blue collar work.

    actually, even that's not entirely true. i think most people who put down college do it not entirely sincerely, but as a reaction to their frustration from being constantly talked down to by the people who fetishize going to college.
     
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