Alexandira Ocasio-Cortez is a result of Trump

Discussion in 'Politics' started by unfocusedanakin, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. WritersPanic

    WritersPanic Greasing up my Staff Member Super Moderator

    It's not a stereotype if it keeps happening in real time. It's a pattern of behavior after a while.

    And it wasn't you saying that "college isn't for everyone". It was the characterization that "Non college attendees are more likely to go with the flow, and not question authority." that I was questioning specifically. Nearly all of the "working class" (what we seem to call people between high school and college in terms of education) I have ever met or worked with seemed to question authority on a daily basis. Where I really saw this was West Virginia, and all over the Caribbean.

    One thing I try to avoid in these forums is getting personal with folks. Forgive me if that was how I came off. That line seems to get thinner by the hour these days. But then, that could just be the perspective of someone who is old!
  2. WritersPanic

    WritersPanic Greasing up my Staff Member Super Moderator

    Reminds me of Quadrophenia. Rocker or Mod, both were essentially the same class; working.
  3. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    It absolutely is. Doesn't mean you need it to make good money just a good chance you do.

    It's silly to live like it's 1950 and technology is not changing and we can all work in a mine or fix a motor with a carborator. There are less and less jobs every year that take a trade school. Which is kind of "college" anyway.

    Are you suggesting a high school dimploa is enough? If you want minnium wage sure.

    Why did you bother to get 2 degrees if you feel this way? Why is one of your jobs trimming weed? A job for drop outs and people without a social security number. A lot of hippie parents never gave the kid one (born in a shed literally with no hospital or paperwork) and now they trim under the table for cash since they are just like a Mexican with no options. I see it all the time. It's not easy work and the pay is not that good. So why do it if you have options? Just smoke it latter.

    This is why I was skeptical when you made the degree claim. Maybe I am wrong but you don't seem to care enough to do that and you don't think it's needed. On top of that all those damn professors indoctrinating you.

    Sadly for people like you college is more of an insult than a tool. It's the place that destroys all your economic and personal ideals so it's bad. Facts have a liberal biases.
  4. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator


    Yeah, yeah, yeah we get it - but the problem is because we also know the dead horse doesn’t stand (its dead) this becomes less of a rallying call and more of an absurdist joke, those on the left don’t quake with fear whenever it’s said they rock with laughter

    Here are a few things that the reply has basically been to just to say ‘dead horse’ rather than have a rational counterargument

    Universal healthcare - Venezuela

    Taxing the rich - Venezuela

    The green new deal - Venezuela

    Electoral reform - Venezuela

    And so on and so on is a joke
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator


    Is it, why does it make a difference?

    Why do you think this?

    I’ve done lots of different things in my life from migrant farm labourer to public servant to been part of my own business, I’ve been a labourer on a skyscraper and raised a child.

    Along the way I’ve done evening classes for fun and got a degree for the same reason.

    I don’t know about your life but I found a wide diversity of opinions and experiences everywhere I went - be it in a field picking fruit or a language class. I’ve also encountered smart intelligent souls everywhere some that might be termed educated and others not.

    It is because of those experience that I am a left winger

    What the fuck are you on about?

    If anything you are the one making judgements between the no hope pot smoking ‘stupid’ people and the self-driven entrepreneurs (who probably smoked pot themselves but hey).

    If anything the problem is the social Darwinist thinking of neoliberal capitalism which equates worth with circumstance – often related to outcome and the social Darwinist ideas of the deserving and undeserving person.

    If someone through luck or advantage does well from dropping out of college then that person MUST be deserving if someone drops out and works really hard but does not do well then they made ‘bad choices’ and are undeserving.

    The first MUST get cuts to their taxes and the other MUST get cuts to any public benefit they might be collecting.
  6. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator


    Part two

    I’ve meet many people that didn’t get a good formal education but who were very good at thinking through their ideas and arguing them in a rational and reasonable way sometimes a lot better than some that I know of that have got degrees.

    To me that is the thing that I equate with someone’s rationality and clear headedness – is when someone holds on to ideas that make sense and they can defend from valid criticisms in a reasonable and rational way.

    The problem I often find is that some people (you included) - formally educated or not - hold onto ideas they can’t defend in any rational way but none the less insist on not just holding them but try and promote them to others.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  7. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    I think we are reaching a point when many human jobs will be done by robots. This means humans either have no need to work or need to "learn to code" which is apparently a huge insult to say to blue collar people.

    This is counter to many Americans self worth. They think "if I don't work what am I?". This is why they cling to coal and other industries that are going away. Why would a man need to risk his life if a robot will go under the Earth in this example.

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez isn't afraid of the rise of robots, but she agrees with Bill Gates that they should be taxed for taking jobs
    Balbus likes this.
  8. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    I have mistakenly believed that those that have aligned with Trump would not do so if they were just more educated. I now believe that the case happens to be that they share his prejudices and will not/would not change regardless of level of education. Hatred of and continual degradation of OTHERS is as natural to them as mom, apple pie and the flag. They revere a tough talking autocrat who will put those OTHERS, who for all intents and purposes are upsetting their world view and are causing them "so many problems," regardless of the lying, the sexual predation, the cheating, the bragging, that is front and center for all to see.
  9. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Best Member

    I don't think making better money for easier work is necessarily a good indicator of higher intelligence. Highly intelligent people often become jaded with such things and society at large. They even *gasp* drop out!

    I think that, because one's own welfare is of such utter importance to the individual, when one is going to college they feel as though they're doing an exceptionally intelligent thing. They go about setting up their whole worldview to confirm this, and look down upon the working class. This is a huge mistake. There are exceptionally intelligent people who make a living doing such things as construction, auto-repair...even janitorial duties. But they'll never be regarded well among the college educated.

    It's really a self-supporting system. The college educated get the "good jobs," declare themselves the most intelligent, and only indulge those who follow in their footsteps.

    It's too bad so many of these people are so dull-minded. Which, you kind of have to be to take the well-beaten path...the guaranteed path. There's nothing creative or original at all about going to college in order that you may live a decent life. It's just the road the status quo has laid out for you. What's so mind-bogglingly intelligent about taking it? Any idiot can see that it's the safe, secure way to go about life. And almost every idiot chooses it.

    Most especially the arts have suffered due to this state of affairs. No originality whatsoever. Terribly banal literature, film, television, music... The sciences as well...everything caters to a particular point of view that is upheld by the leaders in the field who don't seem to be making much progress whatsoever. They stagnate.

    Go ahead and build robots to do my job. I'll find some other menial labor to do. I don't care if I'm destitute. I'll join the destitute masses. I certainly won't begin coding so that I can do my part to support this soulless world you're creating.
    WritersPanic and deepwoods like this.
  10. WritersPanic

    WritersPanic Greasing up my Staff Member Super Moderator

    I'm with you. Having to start over so many times I managed to get into a routine with homeless at the very bottom. Granted, it's been decades since I was last homeless, I still have some survival skills. Most I got from camping, and living on a ship with a bunch of other smelly sailors.

    But I don't see myself as a department store greeter either. And since I'm old, the creative writing market has a special receptacle for my resume. After all, old guys don't come up with cool shit. Or so I hear from sales or marketing departments as I attempt to collaborate. Not that I lose a lot of sleep over that. Creativity is nice, but so is a roof and a meal. Plus I have a unique talent for writing about the most boring shit on the planet.

    Well, second or third to accounting or law books.

    I don't have the spine to do short order cooking anymore. Forget fixing cars or boats. I won't be painting houses or doing any kind of landscaping.

    What I don't like having to admit is how sorry I feel for the next generation. I have the weird distinction of being a baby boomer, who is the brat of baby boomers. They didn't leave me shit. Which is why I had to join the military, which sucked daily, but I got a marketable skill out of the deal. Since I don't have a trust fund or even a pension, I planned forward so my wife and daughter would not go into debt if I was ever taken out by a bus.

    But I don't trust brokerages since so many try to sell me shit THEY scan score on when it tanks. Fuck that. Instead, I paid off the house, cars, college loans and all the other debt. However, I put my wife through college, twice. And daughter wants to be a lawyer, so she's going to college as well. I had to wait a decade after I left the military to even afford to go into debt to get a degree. I made the mistake of enlisting when there was no GI bill.

    All I get are VA benefits IF I'm homeless and broke. And some meager investments from all the rollover 401K money I made from latching onto a few companies that matched very well. If not for my wife I'd probably be homeless (I'm really really bad with money).
  11. lode

    lode One Man Orgy

    Oh my god it's fun. In 2017 I made my opinion more... persuasive on a Dallas Morning News poll on what to do with their Robert E Lee statue.

    Guess what happened to our Robert E Lee statue?

    Dallas will finally remove the base upon which the Robert E. Lee statue once sat | Dallas City Council | Dallas News

    Coding is pure creation.

    It is a bit optimistic to think that you could take many people from a coal mine and forge them into competent devs. The few that could would probably have to move to different areas. The shift to an automation and information economy will create many new jobs, but don't let it make you not feel empathy for the people who will lose out on this transition.
    Asmodean and McFuddy like this.
  12. Meliai

    Meliai Senior Member

    Speaking of robots - Andrew Yang, who is running for president under the Democratic ticket (one of the more interesting candidates running, not that he's really viable but he's an interesting perspective for as long as he stays in the race at least), started a business retraining workers who would be affected by automation. Then he realized there wouldnt be enough jobs for retrained workers. Now he's running on the platform of a universal basic income.

    He makes a really interesting argument for it and i recommend his Joe Rogan podcast if anyone wants to hear his reasoning

    But anyways its very likely that even if every factory worker and coal worker goes back to school for coding or some sort of IT work, the vast majority of them will still end up unemployed.
    Asmodean likes this.
  13. Meliai

    Meliai Senior Member

  14. McFuddy

    McFuddy HaHaHa Joke’s on you Batman

    It’s a great idea and may be necessary but isn’t he like at least two decades early on it?
  15. Meliai

    Meliai Senior Member

    Oh most definitely haha

    In like 30 years he'll run on the platform of being right this whole time
    McFuddy likes this.
  16. lode

    lode One Man Orgy

    It wasn't just me. There were people protesting it and stuff. I just helped where I could best.

    80 lines of Python, and few thousand votes.

    trinket: run code anywhere
  17. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Unless they move, which can be really unfortunate and unwanted. But I also hate it if this (the coal miners ending up unemployed) would be the primary reason to keep coal mines open.
    WritersPanic and Okiefreak like this.
  18. WritersPanic

    WritersPanic Greasing up my Staff Member Super Moderator

    Yes, that would be a stupid reason to keep any business going. Not that it matters though, the coal will stay in the ground for decades and be just as ready to burn as ever. I think a better plan is to gasify coal, using steam. Then feed the synthetic gas to turbine engines, and collect the exhaust heat in a boiler. Use the steam from the boiler to run a steam turbine and to gasify coal. Add carbon sequestration, catalytic NOx reduction and sulfur scrubbing and you're on the way to a cleaner system than using methane (natural gas) alone.

    This was made reality at a 25MW pilot plant. But when a major plant was attempted in Mississippi, it was instantly hampered by cronies and crooks disguised as consultants, lawyers, project managers, engineers and the chick that fetches coffee. It was way over budget and late as well. Last I heard they were running it on methane with no carbon capture. The plant was designed during the Bush years and went out of control when coal became a dirty word during the Obama years.

    The thing is, we best learn how to burn it clean now. Because it will surely cost a lot more in the future when nobody is around to make it work. We can't simply forget coal exists. It will wait longer than we can. I think the need for energy will be so great that we begin tearing up asphalt roads to refine fuel from it.
  19. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    I do feel empathy for them. But I also don't think we need to bend over backwards to keep them employed. With the example of coal we have waited far too long and we kiss too much ass. Rather then say "you need to learn new skills" we pander to a small demographic. So I get frustrated when they ignore the current world and think their job is going to last.

    Like they make it our problem they drop out in the 10th grade since the mine pays $30 an hour. Now they say they can't get a new job. Yes true since YOU made a choice. We did not make the choice to not learn.

    A capitalist system rewards skill not handouts.
    Flagme15 and Okiefreak like this.
  20. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Best Member

    You may not realize this, unfocusedanakin, but there are people out there who love hard work, even mining. Their minds aren't such that they can be satisfied sitting in front of a computer all day long coding.

    They also aren't particularly interested in your entire academic world. But I hope they do join in, because they'll probably put all of you snobs to shame if they do.
    Okiefreak likes this.

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