Abortion Question

Not to start another anti-abortion agrument thread, but i want to ask a question to pro-lifers...

How do you feel about a woman getting an abortion in these cases?

-If the woman has taken large quantities of drugs (sepcifically crack cocaine), with the fetus in her body.

-If a woman has an STD and will most likely spread the STD to the baby

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

Technically, babies that are the children of drug addicted mothers are less likely to have neurological problems than babies of alky moms (AKA FAS and FAE babies).

We can also stop babies from getting HIV in utero if the moms are from a westernized country.

However, I support abortion. I don't think it's right to bring a human being in the world who has every possible chance to be happy and healthy. I guess your question really wasn't for me, but I think everyone should know all the facts.

 

Go abortion!!!!!!



not to sound like bitch or a slut, but i know ill need one of those someday.

 

-My mother did drugs when she was pregnant with me and I turned out normal enough,

-Depends, we talking like herpes or like HIV?

Either way though, personally I'm against abortion, but a woman has the right to it.

 

well i know a lot of people who are fucked up and incredibly stupid cause theyre moms were cokeheads or crackwhores...

 

I'm pro-choice but that's just awful. There are plenty of ways to avoid it ya know.

 

i know there are, but shit happens, and i know somethings gonna happen to me.

 

Crack addiction is a manifestation of the death culture.

Rampant STDs are a manifestation of the death culture.

Murder of the unborn is a manifestation of the death culture.

Eliminate the death culture.

That's how I feel about it.

 

May I also assume that capital punishment is a manefestation of the death culture?

Alex

 

"i know there are, but shit happens, and i know somethings gonna happen to me."

well, relax..I figured I was going to get pregnant before I could handle it but I didn't, and if you use any protection you're better off than I was in high school and right after. I'm serious I was STUPID, and I didn't get pregnant until I was in a good marriage. Don't plan for bad things to happen


About the first question...well I'm pro choice (I'm mostly pro choice on every issue truth be told) but personally would try and discourage someone from getting one if they asked my advice

If it was some crackhead or alcoholic who just found out they were pregnant but weren't planning to stop the drugs I would say get an abortion. I mean would you have rather come out addicted to drugs or alcohol as a tiny infant, with all the health and growth and ect problems that come with it..or would you rather go straight to heaven or whatever your word is for it? Seriously that person wouldn't be a good mother anyway.

Now if it was somene was willing to give it the drugs cause they wanted their baby, but the baby probably has already been exposed to it, I would say no abortion. Because even if there's a little bit of problems, it wouldn't be as if she did drugs the whole time and a mom who's willing to try and kick an addiction for her kid will probably be a loving mother.

If a mother had an STD that would MOST LIKELY get into the baby then I would say get an abortion. But Abyle said you can even keep a baby from getting HIV in a westernized country so I would have to say no abortion if it's true.

 

I agree with you that we should get rid of the death culture...but when has the world ever NOT been a death culture? I'm saying most ideals wouldn't work, not just this one. Unfortunatley this is the way the world is going to stay.

 

Please tell me...just who or what is the death culture. I just want to make sure I'm not hanging around with any.

And what do we do about the dreaded death culture???? KILL THEM like a fetus??

 

This sounds like a Dubya stump speech to me.

Why is crack addiction a manisfestation of the death culture? Coffee is addicting, is coffee a manisfestation of the death culture aswell? Crack [apparently] has a euphoric effect. Is euphoria a manisfestation of the death culture? happiness in general?

The majority of STDs are not fatal....

What angers me is that Bush, in his self righteousness hypocrisy, talks about creating a culture of life, while simultaneously instigating an unnecessary war in which hundreds of thousands of people have been killed; and is in support of the death penalty, aswell as having highest rate of executions in his tenure as Governor of Texas.

I value life. That is to say that I value consciousness. I would say that when neurological activity that is tantamount to consciousness exists in a fetus, that one cannot ethically destroy the fetus's life.
The mother consciousness transcends that of the fetus. If the mother doesn't want the child, then give it up for adoption, simple as that.

I say eliminate hypocrisy, then have a go at the death culture. Killing animals unnecessarily is unethical and probably, proportionally the largest offense on life yet.

Considering that the concept of 'heaven' [or an afterlife of any sort for that matter] are incorrect, in my view, I would much rather prefer being born with health problems than not at all.
We can agree that the existence of an afterlife is unverifiable, shall we not give the infants the benefit of the doubt and let them have a go at existence?

 

"Considering that the concept of 'heaven' [or an afterlife of any sort for that matter] are incorrect, in my view, I would much rather prefer being born with health problems than not at all.
We can agree that the existence of an afterlife is unverifiable, shall we not give the infants the benefit of the doubt and let them have a go at existence?"

Don't you mean a shot at being passed between foster homes until your 18 and the government says you're on your own? Or a shot at living in a abusive home where you're exposed to drugs all the time and neglected and maybe even physically abused? I probably feel a little differently than most, I don't think existance by itself is all that big a deal. Hardley anybody believes there's nothing when you die (there's reincarnation too, and hovering ect.) and even if you do think you just go to a black place where there's nothing, then what does it matter?

 

i watched a special on a mom with herpes and it wasnt spread to the baby, they have meds she can take during her pregnancy..... and with the drugs thing, she shouldnt be forced but if its her choice i have no problem with it................ i woldnt have one myself but i woldnt take away someones right to get one

 

I don't think abortions should be outlawed by any means. The way society is going today we don't need more unwanted children to toss from home to home, to abuse, to neglect.

However, I believe our culture needs to focus more on social responsibilty.

Since the dawn of time young people have been having sex. Our bodies become ready for it pretty much as soon as we are teenagers. If we wern't supposed to have sex as teens then human biology would dictate that. But this is just not the case. Get rid of the taboos surrounding sex and start teaching our children about responsible birth control methods. Many children don't use birth control because they are afraid to go buy condoms or ask their parents to go on the pill.

Nurture a culture that has family vaules. Real family values. Right now we have a culture where both parents need to work in order to maintain the household. That is pathetic...who's raising the kids??

We need to work on improving our foster care system. If we can't properly take care of all the living breathing children in our country that need it, how can we outlaw abortions and bring more children into the mess?

If we make some badly needed improvments in our society I think we will find that abortion will not be so necessary. Maybe one day we can get to a place where abortions only take place due to medical necessity.

 

I'll never understand how someone can have such little regard for human life. I think you should do society a favor and have a hysterectomy now.

 

thank you green thumb. I am quite appalled by that statement, but she's not even worth my time to flame her for it.

I agree with Sera. It shouldn't be outlawed, but we need to focus on teaching responsibility and the consequenses of having sex. Too many girls just don't care and so many babies that could go to a loving home aren't because these girls take the "easy" way out.

Some abotions are neccessary. 100%

Some aren't and they are used as a form of BC. those girls make me puke.

As for a girl who has an STD, she should take medication. there are planty of ways to prevent the spreading of STD's ad even HIV.

For a girl who does drugs, she needs to stop. YOu can only perform an abortion in the first trimester and it isn't until after the first trimester would you be able to see the effects. The baby may or may not come out harmed. No matter what, if a woman refuses to stop smoking crack in her pregnancy, her baby should be taken from her and placed in a good home. If she's smoking pot, there's a MUCH smaller chance that the baby will be affected at all.

 

Wow - awesome - I'm now officially a right winger!

Yes, the death penalty is part of the death culture. And perhaps I was unclear - Bush's entire set of beliefs exemplifies the death culture - I've certainly never been called a Bush supporter.

thumontico, the fact that you believe that the "euphoria" produced by crack use is synonymous with "happiness" is merely another example of what I'm talking about. The death culture produces a desperation in many people for ANY type of chemical "high" - being high on chemicals passes for "happiness" in this type of environment. Forget the fact that crack causes people to abandon and abuse their children, prostitute themselves, even kill people - so long as they're "euphoric" when they're high on crack, right? Christ. I worked as a counselor/case manager for folks with mental illness, two of which were crack-addicted women. One was a grandmother of 2 who prostituted herself to get crack, who was slowly losing brain function, and who had had her face slashed by a crack dealer. Another had her 2 children taken away from her, was sleeping on newspapers because she sold or traded all her possessions and had lost most of her teeth. THIS IS THE DEATH CULTURE.

But I digress. I'm not really arguing about crack here. Anyone who can't see how crack use is a reflection of a deeply sick society is really just crazy anyway.

My point was certainly not that abortion should be illegal - that would result in nothing but dead women AND unborn babies. The fact that women feel they have no "choice" but to have unprotected sex and then murder their resulting unborn infants is also a horrible manifestation of the death culture. A society that devalues women, that trivializes sexuality and intimacy, and that tells people that dead Iraqi babies are "collateral damage" produces little BUT death. And the answer is certainly not to criminalize the women who reflect the social trauma we have all been exposed to since birth.

My point was that we should not fight women who feel they have no choice but to murder unborn babies, but that we should fight the death culture. This - contrary to what both "conservatives" and "liberals" say - means fighting ALL DISREGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE - not just fighting against war and animal abuse, but also fighting the death penalty and the war in Iraq. Fighting the death culture means fighting the general disregard for life that exists in state societies (but in the United States in particular). It means respecting the planet, respecting the trees, respecting whales, respecting our pets, respecting other human beings (including the unborn), and respecting ourselves. It means refusing to be a party to all kinds of violence. It means rejecting a philosophy that defines inherent value with a dollar sign. It means becoming joyful and respectful about the process of reproduction and not entering into it lightly - not out of some bizarre fake christian right-wing "morality," but out of a deep respect for life and a desire to avoid suffering.

I'm not making a legal argument here, or even a "moral" argument. The comments I made previously were not meant as an "antiabortion" statement at all (because as thumontico unintendedly illustrated, abortion is only a small piece of a culture completely fixated on the destruction of life) - but a statement encouraging the rejection of the lifeview in this country, and the adoption of a life-affirming view of existence.

And to the poster who asked when society WASN'T the death culture - there has never been a state society that wasn't. But if you examine human (pre)history and the few remaining hunter-gatherer societies that have survived, you'll see that among small egalitarian band societies, there is a deep respect, regard, joy, and gratitute for life. And I recommend that we return to that natural human way of thinking (since we can't yet realistically return to that way of life) and embrace it. There is nothing "natural" about humans living in misery and death obsession. When you recognize that and move toward a natural lifeway, you take a step away from the death culture.

 

Excellent post LaughinWillow, I agree. I appreciate your consistent views on matters like this.
I really don't know how some people can be rabidly against war yet for abortion. I'm equally perplexed by people who are rabidly against abortion yet for war. These types of people simply cannot be thinking for themselves.

I think all life should be respected. As far as humans go, I think the unborn are actually more deserving of life than adults. At least they are pure and innocent.