A Generation Of Sociopaths: How The Baby Boomers Betrayed America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, May 26, 2017.

  1. FritzDaKatx2

    FritzDaKatx2 Vinegar Taster

    Messages:
    3,661
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Actually, you should try keeping up to date on 3d printing and Urban / Vertical farming more,,,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25HM2tJAYQY

    And that "sooperdooper material" has already raised it's head up before, just a matter of time till it's reverse engineered.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlite

    And Transport costs might remain an issue like you say,,, provided we keep doing the same dumb shit we've been doing for the past 100+ years,,, which is not happening b.t.w.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N53C0UBzuw
     
  2. FritzDaKatx2

    FritzDaKatx2 Vinegar Taster

    Messages:
    3,661
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Option 7, Crush Citizens United so as to de-tooth the Oligarchic political machine while also rolling back corporate tax rates to pre-Reaganomics levels. :cheers2:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics
     
  3. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,079
    Likes Received:
    4,937
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the author the same Bruce Gabney, multimillionaire (or is it billionaire?)"venture capitalist', who used to be an executive with Peter Theil's hedge fund Clarium until the 2008 crash, when the Fund's assets went from $4 billion to 1,5 billion in a year? He left in 2008, and started Founders Fund and has been enormously successful raking in the big bucks as the economy recovers. He isn't a Boomer, but I believe, instead, one of those Generation X-ers, along with such noted humanitarians as speaker Paul Ryan, Sen.Ted Cruz and Trump Budget Director, Mick Mulvaney , .So he as now written a book as a public service to make us aware of the evils of that preceding greedy generation who gave us such sociopathic monsters as Al Gore, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and of course the Clintons. He says the Boomers have done little for the country and were selfish, greedy bastards, I'd say they provided the shock troops for the Anti-War movement and environmentalism. That's not chopped liver. And weren't the Hippies who inspired these forums Boomers. Yes, says Gibney, and you can tell they're sociopaths because they broke the drug laws!

    Like some previous posters, I'm put off by attempts by a non-scholar to do a broad-brushed characterization of an entire generation of over 76 million people. In particular, I question the ability of someone outside the psychological or psychiatric professions to use clinical labels in a way that doesn't amount to propaganda. Such a broad-brushed characterization simply fuels inter-generational animosity, and who would that benefit? Authors and publishers who use it to sell books like this. Maybe also Paul Ryan and his House Republicans in their efforts to sell drastic cutbacks to Social Security and Medicare. For billionaires seeking tax beaks and ventrue capitalists on the prowl, the Boomers and their entitlements make a tempting target. And what clinical label might we use to characterize predators who are so tempted?

    The Boomers are the generation the Who were talkin' about in their famous song.
    People try to put us d-down (Talkin' 'bout my generation) Just because we g-g-get around (Talkin' 'bout my generation) Things they do look awful c-c-cold (Talkin' 'bout my generation) I hope I die before I get old (Talkin' 'bout my generation)

    ( Ed, But now they're old and still not d-ead. Please don't bash them on the h-h-head)
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    4,607
    Likes Received:
    494
    Interesting topic.

    Why limit this to Social Security liabilities. How about our public pension crisis? The overall debt crisis?

    We could speak about means testing for Social Security. Those who are well off would not receive any. We do need their tax revenue to support the system.

    We could speak about limiting access to Social Security disability, which has increased.

    Limiting these may not be enough.
     
  5. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,782
    Likes Received:
    13,801
    Yes, we could also raise the earnings cap limit. As it is now you only pay social security on the first $118,500 you earn per year (2016). The cap could be raised to collect more funds or eliminated altogether.

    This is actually a very fair way of increasing the social security tax as the very rich don't need social security and they would still receive it, although they would pay in more than they receive.

    In other words Tom Brady would pay social security tax on his entire $20,500,000 a year salary, not just the first $118,500 he earned in less than two and a half days.
     
  6. jpdonleavy

    jpdonleavy Members

    Messages:
    1,443
    Likes Received:
    378
    There's a few old people on here. Sme of your best friends may turn out to be old people, once you find out more about them. No names, no pack drill
     
  7. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

    Messages:
    30,289
    Likes Received:
    8,560
    Just embed in threads every so often, some of those gifs or videos that have something scary jump out at you at the end ;)
     
  8. Scratched

    Scratched Members

    Messages:
    866
    Likes Received:
    254
    If Donald Trump did any of your examples (specifically second through sixth), you would shit right down your leg.

    By the way, why do you even care at all about American Politics? You claim to be from Dobbstown, Malaysia.

    Funny how everyone cares so much about if there will be enough to pay for Social Security when they retire...I remember my Grandfather had the same concern in the early 1970's, thanks to the media. Obviously this is not a new worry at all. Kind of like the oil shortage in the early seventies. A hoax.

    But nobody ever mentions how we will pay for people's Welfare, do they? Never...just Social Security.

    Something else interesting about Boomers...I'm a late Boomer, and when I entered the job market it was hard to get a job because I was young and inexperienced, Now that I'm not young, and am experienced, the workforce wants Millennials and Gen X'ers. Because of their computer skills? Maybe...just an interesting observation from my last ten years. Likely because they can pay them less too.
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,782
    Likes Received:
    13,801
    Yes, here I am at the Dobbstown X-Xanadu Resort.

    http://youtu.be/8NeiH8Z1mes​

    I don't really care about the U.S. of A.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    4,607
    Likes Received:
    494
    So much is unanswered though.

    What about the perilous financial conditions of individual States in The US.?

    Are bankrupticies of cities and states to become normal ?
     
  11. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    OK sorry i though i'd posted but hadn't anyway my views on this

    But first – I have not read the book only this review

    Second – I understand the view that you cannot characterize a whole generation, but suspect that had more to do with selling books, but such general statements can throw up ideas and can sometimes be useful

    Third – this seems to be seen from a very American centric viewpoint the post WWII experience for many other industrialised countries in the world was very different. Communities often had to come together to rebuild and democratic socialism was popular and there were communist (well-funded by the soviets) pulling from the left right through the 50s 60’s and 70’s (the Marshall Plan was about stopping Europe turning communist) which means that left wing ideas have still had an influence right up today.

    And now I come to my thoughts on the review in the OP and they are mainly about the why – why did so many from that generation of Americans seem to have become so selfish?

    *

    Even before World War Two the US political establishment had done its best to purge American society of left wing thought, but this gained new vigour after WWII from McCarthyism, the un-American committees to loyalty oaths and FBI harassment and on to anti-left wing corporate and media propaganda.

    To me the vacuum this left in US politics was filled in the 1950-60’s by libertarianism (at least by white American youth, black people had their own issues in the 50’s and 60’s). Bring about the beat generation and the hippies.

    Libertarians wanted freedom and opposed the constraints and norms of the past and what they saw as the hypocrisy of the present (part of that was an acceptance of homosexuality and women’s right to contraception and abortion).

    A lot of this was left wing in nature with an emphasis on community and sharing that was characterized by such things as the hippy communes and reaching out to the civil rights movement.

    But alongside left wing libertarianism there was also right wing libertarian ideas, these had the same beliefs in freedom but framed them in a different way. In place of community and sharing came the individual and self-interest coloured by old American myths of ‘frontier’ individualism, the pseudo-science of Social Darwinism and the works of Ayn Rand.

    The thing is that while left leaning libertarianism although not socialism was still seen as such because it was left leaning and so got attacked through propaganda both serious and mocking. And while the libertarian left never disappeared they declined or retreated from involvement in society while the libertarian right was accepted into the right although some of their views seemed extreme to the then pragmatic moderates and even by the rising neo-cons.

    Now to me just as socialists pulled from left in Europe, right wing libertarianism has been pulling from the right in American politics since the 50’s.

    The economic ideas of neo-liberal that rose in the 1970’s and have becoming increasingly dominant up today were a perfect march with social ideas of right wing libertarianism. And they began to cross pollinate with ideas from one been used to justify or support the other.

    The ideas were also getting promoted by a number of wealth sponsored think tanks and I’ve been told that the works of Ayn Rand are well thought of by many at the top of the tech industries.

    So from the early times of the US there has been a trend toward individualism in reality (Tocqueville) and myth (Horatio Alger) and in the embrace of Social Darwinist ideas during the 1920-30’s which got eclipsed during the Great Depression and WWII that then began to reassert itself again in the 1950’s through right wing libertarian views and has become increasing successful up until today.

    Why do people become selfish well they can be taught to be.
     
  12. jpdonleavy

    jpdonleavy Members

    Messages:
    1,443
    Likes Received:
    378
    "My own theories are based on my experience of the cold war. I think that the constant danger of nuclear annihilation and the drumbeat on TV and radio of the Soviet threat raised our fight-flight instincts so that some of us became overly cautious (me) and others overly aggressive"

    Neither myself, nor my high school friends in the late 50s and early 60s gave a tinker's dam about the threat of nuclear annihilation - it was just too abstract (as global warming is today to so many - and even those who are utterly pessimistic about global warming accept that they still have at least 19 years to party on).

    When I joined the Royal Canadian Navy and manned a giant direction-finding machine during the Cuban crisis we didn't really feel any personal enmity toward individual Russians and we were so hyped at being on the 'inside' during the crisis that we didn't really give any thought to nuclear fireballs.

    Bottom line - the threat of nuclear annihilation had no direct affect on my life whatever and I didn't observe any fear among my friends either - YES - it was the era of Ban the Bomb marches but, again, they were very very very social occasions with an endless supply (literally) of wine, women and song.

    Demonstrations had a large component, frankly, of jungle fucking - and, ultimately virtually all demonstrations are infiltrated by ideologues and evil people so they rarely achieve much (anti-war demos in the Vietnam era possibly being an exception)
     
  13. moon99

    moon99 Members

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    The US was manufacturing society before.

    It was in the late 80's they sent manufacturing to China and India and killed manufacturing society that got worse every year.

    Competition started in late 80's and to be middle class was handed down to the baby boomers. No high school needed and only one person working.

    Now you have to go to college and two people must work full time job just to pay rent in apartment!! Becoming middle class today is like saying I want to be good football player. You may or may not be good football player.

    Now it is competition and competition. No longer handed down to you like the baby boomers.

    Well one day people may protest and demanding minimum wage go up to $20 a hour, unions, banning outsourcing of manufacturing to China and India. But probably will not be to it get much worse.
     
  14. Noserider

    Noserider Goofy-Footed Member

    Messages:
    9,578
    Likes Received:
    6,215
    I think a perfect storm of factors came together.

    One, the 20th Century sees the rise of America as a super power. That wasn't always the case. Up until WWI, Europe held all the cards. It's difficult to imagine now, but there was a time when the US was just another country in the world.

    Two, I think the combination of the Depression and WWII created a bleak world view for parents of the Boomers--the so-called Greatest Generation. They were born after the conclusion of the "war to end all wars" and, regardless, ended up having to fight the nastiest and most costliest war in history after coming of age during the worst economic disaster in history. So when prosperity finally loomed into view, I think these people had a natural tendency to over compensate to give their children--the Boomers--the type of life they themselves were denied in their youth.

    Three, the GI Bill allowed for millions of people to now afford a college education. Education that led to better paying jobs, economic mobility, etc.

    And, lastly, we had an illusion of prosperity. The Boomer generation likes to think that Post-War prosperity in the US was a direct result of economic policy in America combined with the sleeves-rolled-up-can-do-attitude of WWII veterans. But the truth is a bit more complex. The infrastructure and economies in Europe and Asia were destroyed. We had raw materials, a Post-War boom, the only standing manufacturing centers on Earth. We were the only economic game in town in the 1950s.

    And I think all of this came together to create a generation of people who are very similar to the spoiled rich kid who can't relate to you because you're poor and he can't even fathom that.

    If they are indeed selfish, a factor could be that they have been spoiled since day one--put on a pedestal while growing up in the midst of America's greatest economic boom. And, in the 1980's, as young adults, they lived on a credit boom. But still, prosperity, prosperity, prosperity. It's all they've ever known.

    But now, the economic bubble they lived in has burst: The economies of Asia and Europe are back on the world scene; we even have trade deficits with some nations; Regeanomics proved to be a failure; wages stagnate while inflation shoots through the roof; our parents (ironically, Boomers themselves) couldn't afford to send us to college, so now we--in our 30's and 40's--are burdened with student loan debt. The world has changed; the world view of the Boomers has not.
     
    3 people like this.
  15. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    The financial help America gave to Europe and to Japan to rebuild after the war probably had some effect in the longer term.You guys helped to build up the very economies that would compete with your industries. Britain was shattered after the war, but still we managed to waste lots of money from the Marshall plan in trying to prop up the last of the decaying empire.
    At that time I think America seemed like the world's good guy. Certainly you had it better than Europe in the 50's. But I guess there were many problems lurking under the surface of that post war world. The novelist Gore Vidal characterized that time as America's 'golden age'. Maybe he was right.

    I think that America enjoyed a brief period where other countries did look to the States for some kind of moral example - sad to say that's long gone.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,782
    Likes Received:
    13,801
    Pre WWII and after the U.S. also benefited from the mass migration of intellectuals from Europe.
    Before WWII Germany was the intellectual hub of the world. With the rise of the Nazis many scientist, artists, etc. fled from many European nations to the U.S.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,782
    Likes Received:
    13,801
    There are those who postulate that the Baby Boomers suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder brought on by the cold war due to constant fight or flight reaction.
    Those who weren't alive at this period in our history have no idea what stress the United States and the world was under. Imagine if ISIS possessed the H Bomb and ICBMs, to get some idea of what it was like.

    The U.S. was prepared for all out destruction. A report by the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists in 1945 advocated dispersal as a means of surviving a nuclear attack. This led to an all out effort to decentralize the cities, leading to the suburb system.
    In 1951 the video Duck and Cover was released to teach children how to survive a nuclear attack as the government felt such an attack was highly probable.
    This was shown to school children from 1st grade up.
    Note the portions that describe the attack.

    And then the children were warned:
    http://youtu.be/BFT8hLjHtuE



    In 1954 with the development of the H Bomb The Atomic Energy Commission realized that the suburbs too would come under attack due to the massive destruction of the H Bomb compared to previous versions. They thought the best way for the population to survive was to evacuate quickly. This led to the superhighway system.

    The children weren't stupid, they knew the chances of surviving an attack were minimal, this led to constant stress. I can still remember stopping whatever I was doing every time a fire siren went off. A three minute continuous blast meant Alert and a wailing 3 minute blast meant immanent attack, Red Alert.

    Psychological reports indicate the Boomers have lasting effects from the "Duck and Cover" and nuclear attack campaigns.
    Boomers became "profoundly disillusioned", hampered in future planning, cynical, impulsive, and prone to alcohol and drug abuse.
    Boomers are more prone than any other generation to alcoholism and drug abuse, divorce (50% higher), and suicide (30% higher).

    Today many Boomers still have a lack of trust for science and government.
    Many still think the world is a mess.

    Bruce Gibney in his book A Generation of Sociopaths, seems to disregard the effects of the cold war and claim every evil in the modern world is because of the Boomers being a privileged generation. A Gen Xer himself, he has no data from preBoomer generations to back up his claims, and thinks there entire generation was influenced only by TV, permissiveness, and prosperity.

    Finally he completely dismisses any good that the Boomers have done, giving them no credit at all for such things as Civil Rights or Environmentalism.

    Seems to me the claim that the claim that the entire generation are sociopaths (although they have many problems), or that they have betrayed America and that they alone are completely at fault for any short comings they may have is not well founded.

    America itself gave us the Baby Boomers.
     
    3 people like this.
  18. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

    Messages:
    8,382
    Likes Received:
    2,385
    I can still remember having to get under my desk anytime the sirens blew when in first grade.
     
  19. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    Although this thread is about American and the boomers, Europe also had its baby boomers, myself being one of them.

    Another angle on the PTSD thing (maybe a little bit of an exaggeration) - I realized a few years back that although WWII ended 12 years before I was born, it was actually one of, if not the most significant and defining historical event of my early life. We were constantly fed images of it, some of which were very disturbing. I'll never forget the sheer horror I felt when a kid at school lent me a book about the Nazi camps at age 12 or so. It upset me very much, and blighted my perhaps rose tinted view of the world and what humans are capable of. Other disturbing images that seared themselves into my young mind include a scene from the film 'The Battle of Britain', where a fighter pilot gets shot down and you see his hands burning as the plane goes down.Many other unpleasant things too. And because of my parents attitude which was typical of their generation, I felt I couldn't talk to them about those aspects of the war. I didn't even realize that back then, but only in hindsight. So far as my parents were concerned, we were supposed to think of it all in heroic terms. Decent Brits and Yanks who'd showed the Hun who was boss.

    Not only that, but we were left in no doubt that compared to our parents, we had it easy. They had shitty food, we had good food, they lived in fear, we didn't have to. I recall as a kid feeling something almost akin to guilt over it all. I was probably too young to be aware of a lot of the fear of nuclear war. I do recall when we visited London in the early 60's seeing a big CND march taking place, something which my parents sought to minimalize and failed to properly explain. By the time I was old enough to understand the threat did seem somewhat diminished.

    I don't think it led to PTSD, but it certainly had some effect on my development. I think some of my attitudes in later life, such as support for human rights, probably had their roots in those old images of the war.
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice