A critique of 9/11 first responders.

Discussion in 'America Attacks!' started by Rudenoodle, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    One of the common themes in many of the political cartoons of the 70's was the "Hero" image that was given to Russians. After all, the Cold War had begun and it was necessary to ridicule the potential enemy by portraying them as stupid, vulgar and without any moral values.

    It appeared, to those of us living in a free country, that the Russians were simple-minded, and were prone to praise anyone for anything. However, the American spirit was such that Heroes were those who, with full knowledge of the risks and consequences, would risk life and limb to protect, or save others. After all, most issues of the Congressional Medal of Honor were posthumous in nature -- those, for example, who were willing to die to take out as many of the enemy as possible.

    Tuesday, September 11, 2001 will stand as a day of heroes -- perhaps the Russians will even read cartoons of the event. But, perhaps we should begin to look at what has happened to our once great nation -- and, its once almost solemn respect for its true heroes.

    Perhaps the best way to put this in to perspective is to look at the 200 plus fire-fighters and the dozens of New York's Finest who had gone into the World Trade Center Towers. Now, I'm not sure why they did go in to the Towers. They had probably been instructed to, or, perhaps, in a period of inability to reason things out, they concluded that they could do some good.

    Understand that nobody had any idea that the Towers would collapse, as they did. So, the situation in which these events occurred can be described as a building with a high potential for fire to spread to other floors -- from the initial impact areas. Given these circumstances, it would appear that the most immediate concern would be the evacuation of as many people as possible, as quickly as possible. With elevators inoperative and nearly a quarter of a mile of stairs to access the areas which might warrant the firefighter's attention, and this location to be obtained by ascending against an almost panicked flow of people downward, it would seem to me to be an act of stupidity rather than and act of heroism.

    Of the accounts which I have heard, the highest level obtained by firefighters was the seventy-first floor. And, this meeting was described with two indelible comments. First was that one of the firefighters was so exhausted that he had turned purple and collapsed as he arrived at the landing. Then, as the chronicler explains, as he continued down the stairs he encountered dozens of baby-faced men in fireman's garb.

    Now, just think about the effect it would have on the orderly flow towards escape from the disaster above if heavily suited firemen were running (or walking, or crawling) up the stairs -- the only route of escape. Easily, two lines of downward flow were omitted from the exodus. Three feet of width in which there was no downward flow of people. This, for the seventy floors in which the "heroes" had strung themselves out -- impeding the flow to safety.

    Did they really believe that they could run nearly straight up, nearly a quarter of a mile, constantly against the flow of traffic and arrive in any condition to fight a fire? Did it not occur to them that if the fire protection system were operable, there would be a few hardy souls spraying as much water as was available on anything that smoked?

    Instead, they prohibited the escape of, perhaps, hundreds of people who will now no longer be able to spend time with their families. Yes, the single column of fireman removed a single strand of egress from those available to the people who had already been caught up in a scene that exceeded even the imagination of Hollywood.

    Though the number of policemen was considerably fewer than the firefighters, their necessity on the scene is even less understandable. Have we come to where we cannot live, cannot act, and cannot protect ourselves without the supervision (direction or command) of a policeman? Or, was their intention to limit the speed in which the fleeing multitude exited the building? Perhaps they believed that they could arrive on the scene in time to apprehend the pilot who had flown, so carelessly, into the building.

    One factor that does make them equal to the fireman, however, is that they, too, reduced the number of people who would be able to go home to dinner that evening.

    Since we must discount the image that these men ran, willingly, into the jaws of danger, we must conclude that their efforts resulted in the loss of additional lives -- and, that an irrational decision, wherever it was made, resulted in what should be considered no less than manslaughter.

    Instead, we are imposed upon by societal norms (political correctness) to honor these men as heroes.
     
  2. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    I think its just as simple as doing their jobs. Firefighters and policemen don't get paid to stand around the safe zone of a disaster and do nothing. They go into their jobs knowing they could be required to risk their lives at any given moment.
     
  3. Manservant Hecubus

    Manservant Hecubus Master of Funk and Evil

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    Look at how clear hind-sight is!
     
  4. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    They were the supposed professionals on the situation.
     
  5. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    They are not paid to be irrational unprofessionals either, what exactly did they hope to accomplish by crowding stairwells already being used as the sole means of escape? Playing out the american game of hero fetish and managing to commit both suicide and multiple counts of manslaughter at the same time.
     
  6. Duck

    Duck quack. Lifetime Supporter

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    I think assessment of errors is the most important step towards improvement. Emotional reaction helps no one.
     
  7. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    I agree to a point, although I believe the idea of hero fetish may have spurned some men to foolishly rush into the building and in doing so cause even more deaths, including their own I also believe that in an emotional reaction is not always a negative reaction. Sometimes giving one an adrenaline rush to out run danger for example.
     
  8. LetLovinTakeHold

    LetLovinTakeHold Cuz it will if you let it

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    Where are you getting your information for this? Or are you just guessing? Everything I've read shows that 99% of people who were below the point of impact in both towers, we're successfully evacuated. In an attack of that magnatude, these numbers point to an overwhelming success on the rescue workers part.


    http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/12/19/usatcov-wtcsurvival.htm

    Hundreds, if not thousands more would have died if it weren't for the FDNY and other rescue workers.
     
  9. TheGhost

    TheGhost Auuhhhhmm ...

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    Yeah they shoulda all stayed home and pulled their puds. Woulda been so much better. :2thumbsup:
     
  10. LetLovinTakeHold

    LetLovinTakeHold Cuz it will if you let it

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    Cowards call bravery and heroism irrational.
     
  11. texas.grok

    texas.grok Member

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    ^ This ^

    I have tons of problems with what police officers do from the war on drugs to the shitty way the treat people often. Fire fighters and paramedics make mistakes. I know because I have been all three. I spent most of my life working emergency services in one capacity or another. I highly resent the implication that these men and women did anything other than the best they could under the conditions. This was something on a scale that they could not have trained for. The full extent of the incident was not known until the towers fell. Any first responder that I know or have known would have died trying to get in and put out the fire and help save lives.

    Like I said, I have a lot of problems with what cops do, that is why I didn't last long in that part of emergency services but in this case, the cops were trying to help evacuate the building. While you can say that it wasn't their jobs, you are wrong. Protecting lives and property is part of their jobs. And any cop that I have worked with always, ALWAYS, was willing to help out, along side the firefighters and paramedics, at an emergency.

    It is easy for some armchair quarterback to know nothing other that what they see on TV and come to an opinion on what should have been done. But until you have trained in these jobs, spent time on the street saving lives (or trying to), felt the heat of a fully involved structure and run into a running building to try and save lives, you have no right to criticize these men and women.
     
  12. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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  13. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    You are grossly mistaken.
     
  14. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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  15. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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  16. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Your incentive to be honest is conversation?
     
  17. LetLovinTakeHold

    LetLovinTakeHold Cuz it will if you let it

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  18. TheGhost

    TheGhost Auuhhhhmm ...

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    Those guys who hijacked the planes and flew them into the Towers should get a memorial to honor them. Like Timothy McVeigh they had the opportunity to see the real effect of the might of the US government military forces, and the casual deceit that was a part of the US government war machine.

    They should get a fucking medal.
     
  19. Rudenoodle

    Rudenoodle Minister of propaganda Lifetime Supporter

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    I'm sure in their homelands they did post death of course. Accept for Mcveigh who received his before he died, a bronze star to be correct.
     
  20. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

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    Well put.

    Op's stance is that the people who went to try to do good do not deserve any praise, because it was stupid to try to help..... after all, when you're paid to try to save lives, you've spent years training on how to help evacuate, provide medical aid, and handle burning buildings, and you're faced with a burning building full of people in need of aid, what kind of hero would go into that building to try to render aid?

    A stupid sucker, that's what kind of hero.... according to OP.

    It's my (possibly mistaken) impression that throughout the disaster, firefighters worked to help people, including during the collapses and then for many days/WEEKS to find survivors, and then the traumatizing job of finding the dead, in the wreckage, digging through fucking streams of molten steel and shit.

    I think they're heros. Not only did they risk and in many cases lose everything to help their countrymen, they did it WITHOUT taking up arms against another country. Heroes of the highest regard.
     

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