A Cool Music Theory Thing (Key Signatures)

I was looking at key signatures and I notcied something cool and perhaps helpful (I never took band so I have to teach myself music theory).



I was looking at sharp key signatures and notcied this: If you look look at the last sharp added (I circled them for you) and add a half step that tells you what key it is in. For example the Key of G Major. The last note sharped was F and it becomes F# so if I add a half step I know it's the key of G Major. It works the same for the rest.

I noticed something cool with the flats too.



If you look at the second last note flattened (the one I circled) you have your key signature. For example in the first one the second to last note flattened is B (which becomes Bflat). With this you know your key signature is B Flat.


I just thought it was a cool thing to share.
Peace

 

That is pretty slick actually. ~Seven

 

Nigel Spackman Sacked From Barnsley, surely?

Back in my day we just had to bloody learn key signatures, it all goes with learning your scales.

Young people today!

Careful though, that one leaves you a bit buggered if it's in the minor.

 

I'm getting better at reading music, but this will help a lot, thanks.

 

That's one of those things you may not even notice even if you've been playing for years. I learned them mainly by memory.

Also, I once played in 7 flats and got thrown out of all of them.

 

It's interesting that western culture divides the scale into 12 evenly spaced notes. This allows one to play in 12 keys, but it also makes chords sound out of tune. We don't notice it much because we are used to it in western culture.

If you take the C major chord with notes C E G, the frequency ratio of E to C is 1.260. The frequency ratio of G to C is 1.498.

It actually sounds more pleasing to the human ear if the ratios are nice integer ratios, 1.250 (5/4) and 1.500 (3/2).

That's why vocalists (or trombones) can make harmony sound better than fixed-pitch instruments. They will sometimes use the 1.250 and 1.500 ratios instead of 1.260 and 1.498.

 

God I hate this. You are totally right when it comes to making chords sound out of tune. I've heard of this guitar tuning system that puts the guitar slightly out of tune with everything, yet perfectly in tune with it's own strings. It's called the Buzz Feiten system or something, but anyway, it's supposed to work on the same principle as a piano does, tuning slightly off. Many guitarists use it already.

 

Aah... yeah, I first heard it from Ed Roman (Ed Roman is full of shit, btw). I've heard good things about it from other people too. I've tuned to A=440 time and time again but it sounds screwed up.

 

Here's a little bit more info on the Buzz Feinten system:

"The Buzz Feiten system basically consists of two modifications:

First is relocating the nut by approximately 2mm towards the first fret. The idea here is that the nut is in the wrong place because the rule of Pythagoras used to intonate guitars is flawed in its basic assumption that a string is under constant tension. If you press down on a string, you'll find that it's easier to push down the string in the middle of its length than at the 1st fret or near the bridge. However, the Pythagorean rule used to intonate guitars assumes that it's equally easy to push down at all lengths of the string!

The fact that you need to push the string harder near the nut translates directly into the fact that these notes at the first few frets generally result in notes that sound slightly SHARP. Relocating the nut closer to the 1st fret, solves this problem. This can NOT be compensated for JUST at the bridge saddle without compromising the intonation of the rest of the frets.

The second part involves tempering the intonation on the bridge saddles with what is commonly known as "Stretch Tuning". (NOTE the bridge slot actually has to be moved for acoustic guitars). Guitars have traditionally been intonated in what is known as "equal temperament". The problem with equal temperament is that, while it is mathematically correct, it only achieves an intonation that's "close" to being correct. Basically, in equal temperament you end up intonating every E note to every other E note on the neck and across strings EQUALLY, and so on for the others. However, this doesn't produce accurate intonation throughout the length of the guitar neck.

Piano tuners have known for 400 years that in order for a piano to sound pleasant, the tuning must be "tempered" by adjusting it slightly out of tune to a very precise formula. Instead of equal temperment, piano tuners intonate the piano just slightly flat from concert A down and just slightly sharp from concert A upward. So at this point you basically take the same approach for intonating the guitar. You intonate each saddle and string, EXCEPT the HIGH E string, either slightly sharp or slightly flat."

The Feinten tuning system is an improvement over standard ET tuning, but there is no way to100% flawlessly compensate for the inherent innacuracies of even temperment in any/all keys except by utilizing a fretless instrument or in a barbershop quartet ect. A barbershop quartet compensates/adjusts for the innacuracies of equal temperment on the fly... some find their very "pure" chords a little too pure and kinda annoying (and probably don't even know why). ~7

 

Yeah... but if you move the bridge slot on the acoustic what would happen to the bridgeplate. Because after the 70s they quit using large rosewood bridgeplates on martins and switched to small maple plates. Now, I can understand moving a small maple bridgeplate underneath it but if you were to move the large rosewood bridgeplate I think the top bracing would get in the way and you wouldn't have anyplace to reglue the bridgeplate... err... wait... maybe I thought that out to much. Maybe the bridge is moved two millimeters but that would mean having to drill new bridgepin holes into the soundboard and finding a smaller pickguard... wtf.

 

Yeah, I have a Buzz Feiten on my Washburn I66. Basically it just adjusts the nut placement a very minute amount so that you don't have the typical intonation problems of equal tempered tuning.

You know, instead of using this trick, you should just memorize the circle of fifths and the circle of fourths. It makes remembering key signatures easier!

 

Just Intonation, Pythagorean tuning, it's all very well, but it leaves you in a mess if you're trying to play complex pieces of music that modulate all over the place.

I'm a fan of equal temporament myself - it means I can play whatever I like, when I like

Of course Synth Based music can have the best of both worlds as you can include pitch shifts in the programming so you can actually have different frequencies for E, Fb and Dx, etc.

Here's a quick musical trivia question for you.

Fingers on buzzers - what is the only note on the western 12 note chromatic scale that has only 2 enharmonic names (all the others have 3).

 

I fail to see how modulation would be a problem with the B.F. system. It's perfectly intonated, or as close as you need to get. I could change keys and bounce between the octaves on my guitar without any intonation problems. Maybe you meant something I didn't see.

 

Just that the more in tune you are in one key, the less in tune you will be in others. That's why we have equal temporament as it's a compromise so that each key will be roughly in tune, and it will all be equal at least.

For example, if you have all the notes in a C major triad pefectly in tune, then your E natural will be far too sharp to double up as an Fb, and so a Dbm triad will be very badly out of tune.

 

You don't move the bridge, you simply replace it with one that has the slot for the saddle cut in a slightly different place. The bridge pin holes may have to be elongated very slightly but that's about it. The change is subtle... you're not moving bridgeplates/bracing/pickguards ect. You can also find saddles which are slightly compensated themselves for a standard (unmodified) scale length... often with the 1st-3rd strings a bit offset to the others.

This is very true. However, like MusicMan19 is saying... the Feinten system isn't used to keep the guitar in better tune with itself merely in one key or mode (or by re-dividing the equal temperment scale). It is not an alternative to equal temperment. Rather it is a compensation for the difference between the theoretical model of an imaginary "perfect" string and a real physical vibrating string on the instrument. The Feinten tuning actually puts the instrument in better tune in all keys.

The nut is simply reloacated slightly to make up for the fact that you need to press down harder on the strings the closer to the nut as you play. The theorietical Pythagrian formula used by guitar manufacturers for years was flawed and based on the idea that string pressure is constant throughout the fretboard. Not so. String pressure is least in the middle of the scale length and higest at the first fret. Feinten realized that guitar manufacturers for decades have been using a formula to place the nut based on flawed logic!

The saddle is compensated very slightly to provide stretch tuning like has been used in piano tuning practically forever. In stretch tuning the bass notes are adjusted a few cents flat to compensate for the fact that the bass string vibration wave takes up bit more string length as they vibrate from side to side therefore causing them to sound (ring) slightly sharp of their respective scale length. This slight compensation makes them play more in tune. The higher treble notes are tuned a few cents sharp simply to compensate for the fact that the human ear perceives higher treble notes as "sounding" ever so slightly flat as opposed to mathematically precise numerical tuning. This has been known in piano tuning for centuries. So this compensations makes them sound more perfectly in tune (even though a strobe tuner tells you otherwise by sheer mathematical precision of numbers, human ears will always find it sounds better in tune.) The latter is more of a "psychological compensation" perhaps but very much a reality nonetheless. Mind you the saddle compensation is subtle, maybe 6-8 cents difference at the extremes.

And the result of B.F. is an instrument that plays/sounds better in tune in any/all keys all across the entire fretboard. Hope this helps. ~7

 

i'm scared of change, joe satriani uses ET and that's good enough for me

 

The Buzz Feiten is still equal temperment.

 

im gonna skip all this technical talk, i mean, the majority of poeple who lsiten to music cant tell the mistake.

the original system peace showed doesnt work for F major, and its explination, for peace and anyone else whos intersted and hasnt had it explained here (i want to contribute something ) is that:

each note on the staff that is not given a sharp/flat symbol, is in c major, all the white keys. all teh whtie keys, except C and F, have a black key below them (sharp/flat) ('duh' we all say).
every major key has a half step below its root. tehrefor, all keys, except c and f, will have a sharp/flat key in them, a semitone below.

and is teh answer to the trivia question B? i hate b. its the only one that doesnt have a chord in c major. and since i love c major more than any other key, i dislike b the most. also because its called 'h' isnt it? what sort of good note has two names? hes a bloody illegal immigrant thats who he is!

 

no it's not B. Forget what the germans call it. B has 3 enharmonic nams, B, Cb and Ax. All notes on the chromatic scale have three enharmonic names, except for one. Which note is it?

Yes, Peace's key signature trick does break down in certain keys. But if you can't remember the key signatures for C and F major you might as well give up now. Or in my opinion if you can't learn to recognise all the keys anyway you might as well give up.

 

sorry i dont know enuf about msuic theory to know waht an 'x' note is?

is it jsut two steps up?

and is the note a unique note, or jsut by coincidence, no one calls it by a third name?