a bunch of the stuff surrounding the crucifixion of Jesus confuses me...

ok, so Jesus praying in the garden right before being captured, He prays for the Father's Will to be done, let's asume thats what happend...

then, how come we rejected Jesus, if it was the Father's Will for Him to die upon the cross?

 

ok, so its not a bunch of stuff...i might have had more, but when i sat down this is all i had

 

Who is we?

 

well you'll often hear people say "oh, and man rejected Jesus" and that sort of stuff...a lot of the religious giult-tripper's use it

let me rephrase it then...well, i guess thats the only way to phrase it really...like, its directed at the people [not nesecarilly the guilt-tripper's] who say that we [mankind] rejected Jesus, and our rejection forced Him up upon the cross, when it clearly seems that it was the Father's Will for Him to be killed...

 

Then it should be clear that it was the Father's will that we rejected Jesus as well, for otherwise there would not have been a public example for us to see.

 

He came to His own, and His own received Him not.

 

I think it refers to the fact that it was Man who crucified Jesus.

 

I think I understand. If you allow Christ to die for your sins by accepting him, you are rejecting his message by doing him bodily harm (ie. crucifying him, in your heart of hearts). If no one accepted him the crucifixion would have been useless, as an act of God, so Jesus would not have been crucified.

 

If JC died for mankinds sins, then mankind has been sinless since. Not only that, but if JC died for mankinds sins, then he's overturned God's convenant that put Satan as ruler of the Earth. That means the "second coming" has been and gone, as well as showing that JC has usurped God in the same way Satan did.

 

You are correct...

 

I once read that Jesus was an avatar (when God decends to earth as human)...and as different avatars are for when there is a decline in spirituality in different peoples in history so Jesus had his. For example, Buddha came when he did because the people we not practicing the Hindu religion correctly and his teachings of non-violence we to stop the bad practice and although it seams that Buddhism is about athism it isn't because Buddha himself is an avatar of God...and Jesus as an avatar to (as many enlightened masters have the ability to do) take on the sins of the people where he lived and to die and be resurected to show that the body is just an illusion and that spirit is everlasting.....

I will have to look it up and see if I can find it again...because I believe there was a bit more to it about Jesus...but that's there for starters....

 

I'm not sure about this because actually it all happened long ago. Me or you or anyone else has no say in whether Jesus got crucified or not, it was the people back then who wanted him dead.
And the main reason they wanted him dead is that he threatened their established religious views.
I don't personally accept that there was ever any need for a sacrificial death to pay for our sins.

 

I like this idea - but it's a difficult one to sell to christians because it means accepting something from outside their own traditions in order to explain that tradition. The idea of avatars comes from hinduism, and since many christians regard hinduism as some form of paganism if not worse, they are very closed minded towards it.
In effect, christians regard Jesus as an avatar - an incarnation, or 'the' incarnation. They don't believe in other incarnations, and believe their particular incarnation had to die to redeem all mankind - including hindus, buddhists etc.
It's a strange fact that many christians assume that what they believe comes wholesale from judaism. In fact, there are Greek and also perhaps Zoroastrain influences in the New Testament. Later on, much was assumed into christian traditions from paganism. But if you suggest even that to a fundamentalist, they will probably accuse you of being in league with satan, being a 'pagan catholic' or some such thing. They are even less likely to accept an interpretation based on hindu philosophy.

 

Its so very strange because I have grown up Catholic and I must have missed the day that they said that you were in a league with Satan if you believe in something else...I always remember thinking, "well if you knew Jesus was around and said important things...that you were ok..." ...I don't know, may be as I delve longer and harder in to both Christianity and other religions, I find it hard and harder to believe that they are all not the same....they all teach that there is one God...so I don't see how they are not....but then I see and example of what others believe (but surprisingly only really on the internet...someone has only attempted to "save" me once...this is also the same girl who told an accomplished archaeologist we were listening to a lecture from that Lucy, one of the oldest complete human skeletons was a chicken bone...but that's a different story for another time)...and I can't believe that anyone could be so closeminded...and I understand the boundaries we create and I think of how Jesus surly didn't want this when he said what he said....I don't know...I'm def. going to have to find that book I read the thing about avatars in....I would like to post it......and sorry all if I babbled....and if I offended someone (I hope I didn't...there was no intention of it at all)...sorry about that too!

 

A wierd thing about older pagan religions is that the belief in One God is hidden from all but those who have achieved the highest level of enlightenment in those religions. It's still there, but it is hidden among the sub deities (or spirits) which are personified representations of certain aspects of the Godhead. It's like even the greek mystery cults lead to knowledge of the Godhead, although they took you on a long journey of looking at individual avatars such as Zeus, Chronos, and Athena on the way to true knowledge (not that Christianity's Jesus is much different, it's just my cultures path to knowledge of the Godhead).

Hahaha.... Kharakov might be an Avatar as well.... lol..

 

It was more like all sins are forgiven, not that there is none anymore.
That doesn't mean you're getting a pass to heaven for not ´believing in Christ,it's not that easy. If a person wants to send you a present, they must also have your address, no?

And if he would have already come a seconed time there'd be peace on Earth, and everyone would be a vegetarian, I don't see that happening...
And demons show up occasionally ( sp??) too, if the LORD would have already come, they wouldn't show up at all...

 

The way I have always understood it, the most important thing to know about the Crucifixion is that it is really all about Jesus' willing confrontation with, and victory over, the fear of death.

The one fear that is universal to every living creature is the fear of death. The fear of death has a powerful, and usually negative influence over much of what one thinks and does and allows oneself to become. With rare exceptions, when one believes death is certain, the fear of death causes even the most kind-hearted and thoughtful person to experience a kind of spiritual and intellectual disintegration into helpless paralyzing despair, or panic, or anger, or hatred, or violence, or any combination of these things. Most just can't help it.

One does not even actually have to be facing certain death. One need only believe that their death is about to happen. It is that belief that triggers the fear of death to overwhelm them and reduce their thoughts and actions into something dangerous or deadly, and fearful, to others. To make matters worse, this can create a kind of chain reaction of spiritual and intellectual disintegration, a mass hysteria which may affect all who are susceptible to it.

The significance of Jesus' mission is his assertion that everyone's most essential identity is not merely physical but spiritual, and, just as importantly, that the life of one's essential spiritual self is only fulfilled when one masters the overwhelming demands of fear and desire instead of being mastered by them. One doesn't escape from fear and desire. They are, after all, vitally important facets of human nature, but one can achieve a healthier spiritual state of being where one is no longer a slave to their demands.

The significance of the Crucifixion is all about Jesus' willing confrontation of this universal fear of death and his victory over it. As the story goes, his mastery over his fear of death gave him immunity from that spiritual and intellectual disintegration and allowed his spiritual essence, his soul, if you will, to survive his physical death.

Now of course, you are free to believe or disbelieve whatever makes sense to you, but sooner or later you have to recognize your desires and your fears, especially your fear of death, and then either master them, make peace with them, or submit to them. The choice is yours.

Peace and Love

 

This is from somewhere on the net..can't recall exactly where, but it is something said by the new pope back in 97.

"In 1997 Ratzinger annoyed Buddhists by calling their religion an 'autoerotic spirituality' that offers 'transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations'. And Hinduism, he said, offers 'false hope'; it guarantees 'purification' based on a 'morally cruel' concept of reincarnation resembling 'a continuous circle of hell'. The Cardinal predicted Buddhism would replace Marxism as the Catholic Church's main enemy this century.”

I think that the unfortunate truth is that many christians hold similar views.

 

Incredibly unfortunate indeed....