2C-E or more 4-AcO-DMT(Synthetic shrooms)?

Alright, so as some of you who were in chat on Monday night may know, I recently ordered 100mg of 4-AcO-DMT. 4-AcO-DMT is an ester of Psilocin, so just like Psilocybin it converts into Psilocin in your body, it is essentially the best way of experiencing mushrooms synthetically, because while you can extract or synthesise Psilocin itself, it degrades very fast, 4-AcO-DMT fumarate on the other hand does not seem to degrade over time.

20mg is ~2.5-3.5g of shrooms.

Anyway, I had my first experience on Monday, I'm not sure exactly how much I took since I eyeballed it due to lacking scales, however it was my first psychedelic experience and it was simply amazing. The first 40 minutes were very anxious, time passed really really fast, and it felt like it wasn't going to kick in. Then suddenly euphoria started, this continued for the next 20-30 minutes, by which time I had an amazing body high similar to what people describe on MDMA, touch felt amazing, I had warm tingles surging through my body. Eventually this progressed into a psychedelic experience, thoughts swarmed through my head, time was dilated, I experienced mild OEVs and more intense CEVs. I wont go into detail since there's too much to say but it was the best 6 hours of my entire life so far.

Prior to trying the 4-AcO-DMT my plan was to order 1g of 2C-E when the 4-AcO-DMT ran out, however this experience was honestly the most perfect feeling I could possible imagine, and so I really want some comparisons between either 4-AcO-DMT and 2C-E or shrooms and 2C-E. I heard phenethylamines like 2C-E were more recreationally enjoyable, but it seems with the amazing body high, euphoria, and visuals that I got, nothing could be more enjoyable.. So if you believe phenethylamines are better for recreation, explain why.

I'd also like a comparison of the body highs, as I've heard 2C-E's body high is uncomfortable and unpleasant, however if it turned out to be similarly pleasant to shrooms/4-AcO-DMT then it'd definitely be worth getting.

Normally, if they were the same price, I'd just go ahead and get more 4-AcO-DMT since it was so great, however at my source, 2C-E is 1/2 the price, and from what I hear, you don't need to take as much. Money wise it'd be my best bet, but I really want to know how it'll compare, I hear it's more visually intense, but if it lacks the emotional qualities of Psilocin then I'm not sure it's what I want.

Opinions/experiences?

 

4-aco-dmt > 2c-anything

Buy this scale. Your total, with tax and shipping, will be between 20 and 25$. It will save your life, and it will let you dose properly.

http://www.dealextreme.com/feedbacks/BrowseReviews.dx/sku.10515

4-aco-dmt being converted to psilocin in your body is only a theory. In fact, there are many reasons to suspect it is not true. For one, the speed at which 4-aco-dmt begins working . . . extremely quickly. Second, the high itself, while I have never done pure psilocin, the 4-aco-dmt high is a lot closer to DMT than mushrooms ime.

4-aco-dmt is one of the best RCs out there, and one of the best psychedelics. I'm surprised this was your first psychedelic experience and you did it without a scale lol. This kind of habit will not end well! Get the scale

Phens are never as deep as trypts, as a general rule. Now, there are shallow trypts (amt?) and deep phens (mescaline) but overall trypts will always be more 'cosmic' and 'deep' while phens are more like a super cool laser show with mind fuck and body high.

2c-e also can get you quite sick, while 4-aco-dmt is probably the second cleanest trip of all psychedelics after LSD.

 

Thanks for the advice man. I'm pretty good at dosing without a scale since I spent a lot of time racking up 20-30mg lines of Ketamine (I preferred to make 10 small lines that totalled ~250mg rather than one big line, as I'd come up half way through snorting them), I'd be more likely to get a scale if I was buying 2C-E as I've heard of people IVing > 80mg of 4-AcO-DMT without problems, or orally taking > 100mg, so even if I grossly underestimated my dosage the worst that would happen is it would get a little too intense.

Obviously though I do err on the side of caution since I don't have a scale. I took a small 1-2mg "allergy test" first just to make sure it was safe for consumption. However from my experience I feel that it would not have even been unpleasant if I had taken a rather large dose, as there was not a single bad vibe in the entire trip, it just felt like pure love flowing through my mind and body and projecting itself around me. If someone asked me to define "Bliss" I would hand them ~20mg of this.

I will get a scale when I get the chance, but being in Poland at the moment it's harder to get one for cheap, and being a 17 year old with no job and little money, I can only afford to either get a scale, or more 4-AcO-DMT.

So, buy more 4-AcO-DMT then, and maybe when I next have some money to spare get some scales and a little bit of 2C-E to give it a try?

 

I agree, but you're new to psychedelics, and you should know that the bliss you get from trip x does not translate to your next trip y. It might, and it probably will . . . but you are never invulnerable to dark depths of depravity.

I took 50mg once and while it was overwhelmingly positive, it turned out to be too much in a way.

When psychs seem like they are "easy", watch out, it's perfect timing for your to get your ass humbled "When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door"

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=383816&f=126

 

Yeah, I'm aware of that, I am prepared for a bad trip if it were to happen. In fact, during my trip I must admit there was one point when it felt like it could go bad. I was watching Fear and Loathing and when they got to Vegas the depravity of it all made me start to feel bad, but then I just thought "Hey forget it man. Sit back and enjoy" - and I did just that, turned from heading in a bad direction to utter amazing bliss again in a matter of 10 seconds.

I was kind of shooting for really intense since my Ketamine experiences are all ones where if I can see the world around me, it is rippling and completely out of my control, the room will shrink and grow and I do not know what is going on. Every experience was one of intense ego loss, my mind was obliterated. I didn't hit the same ego loss with 4-AcO-DMT, which I thought would disappoint me at first, but the sheer pleasure I experienced made the lower dose worth it. One advantage I have is that if I'm in doubt over if my dose is too big or too small, I simply cut it in half, then if when I come up it's not intense enough I can dose the rest, that's what I've done with other drugs in the past and what I plan to do with this. The way I look at drugs, at least the way I started looking at drugs after a couple of initial unpleasant experiences with Ketamine is that a good trip will make you happy and secure, a bad trip can shatter preconceptions about being perfect and help you make necessary changes to you and your life - so even if the experience is unpleasant, afterwards I can learn from it - and this of course is why I take drugs, as a learning experience. Probably why I find stims quite boring.

Haha, thinking about it though, I think the hardest thing of all for me will be spreading my doses apart. I initially bought this with the intention of dosing once a week, but it was so amazing and I wish I could dose more often.

 

I'm glad you had fun. I have done Mushrooms, 4-aco-dmt and 2c-e each one time. I did not feel I got the full epierience from 2c-e because I took an akward in between amount and was in an awkward social environment. It was a lot of jaw grinding but like I said, I didn't really get a feel for it. Eventually I will be brave enough to try again but I'm sort of a pussy. But of Mushrooms or 4-aco, my mushroom trip was at least 20 times as magical. There are a lot of reasons this may have been. But both were very enjoyable. But I would recommend trying each because to me they did not feel the same. I think I'll probably try each a few more times in the future.

 

Honestly I've done 2c-e once and don't feel the need to explore further. It seems that anything it offers is offered in a better way by something else with less bodyload. I will one day finish the baggie i have but it's preeeeeeetty far down on my drug to do list.

 

I think 2ce is pretty amazing. I certainly would do a dose of 2ce in the 20-25 mg range or higher if you are so brazen. I don't find it terribly 'mind expanding' as their isn't a huge cognitive change to me (maybe slightly emotional) but visually it's certainly competitive with LSD. I have never taken 4 aco dmt but I am one that likes to try different chemicals for the sake of novelty i guess.

Go with the 4 aco dmt if you want more out of it, 2ce has not been a terribly 'pleasureable' or 'fun' experience the times i've done it, but there is some good character to that compound and I never regret doing it.

 

once a week is still a lot to be eating 4acodmt (or any psychedelic)
and you need to get a scale

 

This is the same case for me, although I will eventually try it again in the future. Nothing I would spend my money on personally.

 

As much as I love 2c-e, I've done it to death (~30 times in my life, doses ranging from 15mg to 40mg) and I agree that it's not terribly deep or mind expanding, and that body load is a bitch sometimes.

4-aco is number one on my to-do list as soon as I have the fundage. I think 2c-e is still worth a try at some point in your life, but I say go for the 4-aco first. I haven't done it yet, but I have a feeling it won't be the runner up to 2c-e...

 

I know this has been answered elsewhere, but (one more time) what is good dose of 4-AcO-DMT? (10mg test dose shows no untoward reaction and that it's active.) Thanks

 

^^you mean 10 mg is or is not active?

i plan to start with 25 mg, because that is all i have. if i had 100 mg or more, i'd start with 20 mg maybe

 

do not underestimate either of these compounds.

i'd go for the 4-aco-dmt, but if you haven't tried 2c-e you could give that a shot

 

I think he means he took 10mg as an allergy reaction test, and at this dose it was active - but judging by the fact he's asking for a good dose it was most likely not active enough for him.

Try 20-25mg, or 30-35 if you want something a little stronger.

Anyway thanks for all the advice everyone. Since 2C-E is very easy to get and 4-AcO-DMT isn't so easily found, I think I'm going to go with another 500mg of 4-AcO-DMT, even if I trip once a week that'll still last me a very long time considering its price.

 

try not to trip once a week bro. they will lose the meaning/magic. and you will "fry" your brain. i'm sure it'll get old soon enough.

and if you're really too stubborn to get a scale, you could try liquid measurement. BUT YOU HAVE TO WEIGH THE INITIAL 500 mg!! you could even do that on a 0.1 g scale. so you have ~500 mg, dissolve in 500 mL (for example) solvent (distilled water or ethanol) so you have ~1mg/mL

 

I'm not too worried about exact measurements with 4-AcO-DMT because it's easy enough for me to get a fairly accurate dose, it's just a question of 5 or 10mg difference - which for something so easygoing isn't so much.

Just a note though if anyone does plan to use liquid measurement, I've heard a fair few reports of 4-AcO-DMT degrading very quickly in distilled water, so ethanol would probably be your best bet.

If I really did find any problems with measurement though I'd just borrow some scales from someone else as I'm pretty sure I could find someone with some nice accurate scales easy enough.

As for tripping once a week, it seems to me that the only obstacle would be psychological tolerance, as a little research tells me that physical tolerance seems to wear down in 3-5 days for 4-AcO-DMT, Psilocin and most tryptamines. I have never noticed a "psychological" tolerance to any of the drugs I have used in the past. With Cannabis I was still experiencing 4-5 hour intense highs from 0.1-0.2g of nice bud even after a year of smoking daily, with Ketamine I did not even notice much of a physical tolerance after several weeks of binging on the stuff (and I know this one has quite a bit of a tolerance for most people I know who use it sparsely, nevermind this regularly). I understand psychedelics have a much bigger jump in tolerance but general consensus seems to be that there is no noticeable tolerance if you wait at least a week between doses. 4-AcO-DMT to me is what Ketamine used to be, a learning experience, and even with daily binges of the stuff I never lost interest in it, I just eventually reached a point where I felt I no longer needed to learn any more from it at the time and so took a break - if this happens with 4-AcO-DMT then since it is the fumarate rather than the HCl salt I can always put it away for a rainy day.

As for "frying" my brain, I see psychedelics as only beneficial, dissociatives such as Ketamine and DXM can cause real brain damage and problems in the long run, but even with Ketamine I never ran into any problems (I imagine if I'd kept overdoing it I would have though) - so this is the least of my worries. If by "frying" my brain you are not referring to actual damage but seemingly "unnatural" thought patterns and such, then that is even less of a worry to me.

Thanks for the advice though. I might end up sticking to once every two weeks or so if I find any tolerance with weekly doses, but coming from a year where I might have been sober once a week to tripping once a week is a big enough jump as it is, more sobriety would surely send me insane haha.

 

I'm Polish as well, currently living in Sydney. Good to see a Pole here

4aco is very stable, I have purchased a significant amount over 2 years ago. And it is still 100% active, no doubt about that, I haven't noticed any degradation whatsoever. Just store it in an airtight container (add some dehumidifier pellets) in the fridge and IMHO it will last years.

With respect to 2c-xs. I have tried many of them and as much as they are fun, 4aco is one of THE MOST AMAZING things I have ever been blessed with...I put it up there with LSD, shrooms and mescaline.
It is pure, clean, crisp and just mindblowing stuff, heaps of potential and hidden knowledge. Large doses 35+ get very tricky though and will lead you to a very different place...4aco changes its face after the 30-35 mark and becomes a big challenge so proceed with caution Guessing from your style you will cross that line very soon and you will love it!!!

In terms of your perception of psychedelics (drugs in general) be careful with your statements. No offence and I know you are young, but be cautious with all these things, especially with unresearched synthethic psychedelics...
I agree with your views about how they can benefit us, but there is world out there than none of us will ever understand nor even come close to understanding. Treat your beautiful, young, smart mind with respect, whatever you do be safe, make a margin for errors and unknowns and most importantly never assume too much when it comes down to your mind and drugs. It can come back one day and bite you and we don't want that


Jacek.

 

If you can afford to I'd order both. 15 mgs 2ce and 15 mgs 4aco-dmt (or 4aco/oh anything) is so perfect I trip on it everytime. Unless I'm trying something new out of curiousity or if I happen to find some LSD.

 

Thanks for your posts. @Jacek, I agree completely. This was one of my reasons for going with 4-AcO-DMT rather than one of the many other RC psychedelics available to me, as it is one of the few with a fair bit of information out there, plenty of experience reports, and given that it metabolises into Psilocin it can be regarded as very safe. I wouldn't say this for all psychedelics, as for example with 2C-E I would be very wary with dosing without scales if risking it at all.

I'm only half Polish myself. My mum's Polish, but my parents bought a house over here a few years back, so last year they decided to sell our house in England and move over to our house here. It's a nice country but it's hard to adjust, especially being someone who uses a lot of drugs, as drug laws are VERY harsh here and finding a dealer is quite tricky, in fact it's me not finding a dealer that got me interested in RCs and led to me researching and eventually purchasing 4-AcO-DMT.

On a related note, how did you find the open-eye visuals with a larger dose? I'm not taking 4-AcO-DMT for the visuals but given that it was my first psychedelic, I'd be interested in seeing just how visually intense it *can* get too, and see if that corresponds with the level of introspection the trip produces. I'm still unsure of how much I took but I'd estimate 15-20mg from trip reports, it was very magical, not overly visually intense but still pretty interesting, my thoughts were very clear but focused and it seemed like I did not need to think about or do anything in particular, whatever I was doing or thinking about was right at the time.

Not sure I can afford both. Actually, just checked, and for just under the price of 500mg of 4-AcO-DMT I could get 250mg of 2C-E and 250mg of 4-AcO-DMT. However I am moving into the area of psychedelics for the sake of learning from them, and for introspection, things that Ketamine provided when taken in high enough doses - from what I've heard, while being visually entertaining, 2C-E isn't so introspective. I'll give it a try some time for sure, but I was thinking it might be best to wait until I have some scales, and to just buy 500mg of 4-AcO-DMT for now.