20 year old having a non-sexual relationship with a 14 year old.

My mom freaked out when she found out we were holding hands. She compared it to how marijuana is a gateway drug, that holding hands would make it a physical relationship, I countered that hand holding while being a sign of physical affection doesn't need to apply sexual affection. (non-gay men in south american holding hands, parents holding the hands of children) she says it might not be illegal, but it was immoral. (holding hands)

my father wigged when I told him I was breaking up with a girl I had slept with (19) because I didn't want to ruin my budding relationship with (14). She's so young he said.

This weekend I contemplate explaining, with her, to her parents that we want to go to homecoming together, (sidebar: how lame is going to highschool homecoming as a junior in college?)

Morally/ethically is a relationship with a fourteen year old wrong, no sex just lip kissing (we haven't done that yet but one day we might), holding hands, and playing footsies.

p.s. it makes me so mad talking to people about her, they hear her age and stop seeing her as a person she's becomes this gigantic walking fourteen. They call her a child, my ex asked me if I'm living some highschool fantasy. Gosh to me she's such a nice kid, recently she was telling me about the decay of Halloween how all the women her age are using the holiday to strip down. we talked how the trend will probable worsen when she told me how women dress there nine year olds in slutty outfits. I made joke costumes for the future costumes ladies might choose from (witch lingerie, a classy nurse teddy, a pirate thong and matching belly shirt.

 

Hmm, I want to be open minded and say age is just a number and other comforting cliches, but there really is a pretty big emotional gap between 14 and 20, no matter how "mature" a 14 year old might seem. I remember when I was 14 - I was smart, disciplined and very mature for my age, as all the adults said, but looking back I really was just a little kid emotionally and in many other ways. So much growth and change (emotionally, environmentally, physically, psychologically) occurs between 14 and 20 regardless of how fast you've grown up or what you've lived through up til 14, it's nothing to sweep under the rug. You said it yourself, "she's such a nice kid."

I hate to be a downer but I don't think you will find much support from friends and family regarding the issue. Society generally frowns upon it and anything of a sexual nature is, as you know, illegal, but that being said I personally don't find anything ethically or morally wrong with it. Up until modern times, and still in some countries these days, it's typical for girls to be married by 14 and having babies as soon as they can menstruate. Whether or not it's beneficial to the girl's overall development and quality of life is not my place to say but it is a reality.

Getting back on track, I think that if you are interested in this girl and want her to be in your life, take it ridiculously slooooooooooow - let your actions (or lack thereof perhaps) prove to your parents and friends that you care about her as a person and not a "highschool fantasy" and that you BOTH are mature enough to not do something you might end up sorely regretting down the line. You both are young, you have all the time in the world to develop and deepen your friendship. If within 2 or 3 years you guys are still close and want to bump it up a bit, then see where things stand. But for now, stick with hanging out casually and make sure it doesn't go any further than footsie.

 

ok, im trying real hard not to see just 14

but i cant, your saying it will stay non sexual?? till shes of LEGAL age?
i totally dig that women mature faster, but 14,, no way.

i would be the 1st to admit im out of touch with all you young whipersnappers, im 46,
but you would actually go to a school function??wouldnt they tar and feather you and assume shes a whore? what else would attract a 20 year old guy?is what they would think...
i dont see this ending well,, be careful you dont end up in jail

 

When I was 14 I dated a 21 year old. Didn't end well, the police got involved and everything.

 

I don't think its realistic to expect a twenty year old man to develop romantic feelings for someone without developing a sexual interest in them as well. An innocent 14 year old girl can easily fall in like with someone without associating sex with it. When I was 14 I prefered holding hands to doing anything else. But a 20 year old guy's brain isn't wired to work this way.

The holding hands argument doesn't hold up. There is nothing remotely sexual about a parent holding a child's hand or two men in another culture holding hands. As innocent as you want to portray your hand holding, if there wasn't any sexual attraction there you wouldn't be interested in her as anything more than a kid sister anyways. I assume youre sexually attracted to her or you would not be with her.

Also, what could you possibly have in common as a junior in college with a girl thats a freshman in high school? I'm not asking from a judgemental point of view, I'm genuinely curious. I hate to agree with all your friends and family, but a 14 year old girl truly is a kid. Its true that in other cultures there are girls younger than that raising their own families, but they are able to mature quickly because they are put in that situation. A 14 year old girl brought up in American culture just stopped playing with her dolls a couple of years ago.

Maybe you're extremely emotionally immature. i had a friend when I was 14 that dated a 20 year old, but various elements combined in his life to create a 20 year old with the emotional maturity of a 14 year old. Their relationship made sense to me when I was 14. I thought it was cool my friend was dating an older guy. Looking back, all I see is a young girl that didn't have a lot of guidance and a boy who was extremely emotionally stunted. Nothing seems right about it in hindsight.

I don't think anyone can make a judgement call about whether its morally right or not, especially if there is no sex involved. However, I just don't really see how you two could be very emotionally compatible, unless you are extremely immature for your age. Because no matter how mature she presents herself, shes still a kid inside. I can say that with complete confidence because I was a 14 year old girl once as well.

 

Young love can be a fleeting thing...
A criminal conviction for inappropriate sexual conduct with a minor is not. Mind you that doesn't just mean vaginal intercourse (a simple touch could be enough)
In our country it literally puts you on the map.. (for the rest of your life)
Pedophiles must register at the town hall every time they move and can be required to have warning signs posted on their property..

 

Meliai, +1 since I can't rep you again. You said all the things I wanted to say but couldn't pull it off without being indelicate

 

This is your third thread on this subject. Each time the opinions have been the same.


http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=406443

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=400663

Interesting.

 

Fight her dad in Thunder Dome for ownership.

 

I Remain Confused As To Why You Posted In The "Ethics" Forum...

I See No Ethics In The Subject Of This Thread....



Cheers Glen.

 

wow according to your age that was only a year ago? were you guys open with your parents, did you guys do anything physical?

yeah the dance is making things faster than I'd like, she was dropping hints that she wanted me to ask her, I like her, few minutes later and we're going together.

my background ruins the conversation...or colors it to point where it isn't a productive conversations. Honestly right now I can be happy with cuddling, holding hands, footsie, and playing with myself (of course not with her, it would just be impossible to maintain this control myself without self adjustments)

we were in a musical production together. After my young life of failing at everything my teenage years I spent becoming a jack of all trades. I played in the band, was captain of the football team, played small roles in a musical, and did decently academically during high school. When I first meet her she was doing a jazz dance routine, (she goes to an art high school, she's in integrated art conservatory so she dances, acts, sings, and draws) and she saw my fascination with her footwork and showed me the routine till I could monkey it in time with her. Whenever rehearsal would get slow I'd showed her what I knew of dance, I taught what I know of salsa, (merengue, cha cha cha) waltz, and ballroom. She laughed at attempts at ballet and she showed me her real skills in that arena. I showed her some basic judo falls and she showed me different stage slaps and prop falls. I'm a playful person so during downtime we'd explore the other stages and prop rooms and I'd tell her of plays I've read one time trying to act it out with props in the back (so many cool objects). As Shakespeare put it "she loved me for the dangers I have passed / And I loved her that she did pity them" Though in our case not only the dangers but also beautiful things that I've caught, and I loved her that she can live them through me. I'm a poetic so I'm inherently naive, passionate, and narcissistic and I tell her of my life. In the dance studio (where we practice the numbers) there is a large wall mirror, I'd always glance over at her and flutter it's beautiful to see, underneath that stage simile to really see that thick layer of concentration in her delicate steps. Other than that we talk about the books she's reading (for school) some of my old favorites poe, of mice and men, when they start romeo and juilet we plan on reading it together. it makes me happy to share what lies underneath that old and alien language. We both have coursework and peers and teachers and friends. sorry it's so long but when I talk about her or us I get carried away.

I assumes ethics to be very similar to morals and I thought this situation is morally touchy especially when it makes me feel very guilty when my mom says that what we are doing is immoral, (a woman who married at 16 had children at 17 and left when I was four and is upset at her parents for letting herself get involved with a man who was two years older)

it's true that this is similar to other threads; what can I say when you care you don't give up at the first sign of problems , I just assume my name is tainted in true confessions.

as to emotional maturity I am very strange because of my aspergers/childhood/poorlifechoices/. To cope with a lack of people skills, I developed an intensive list of human behaviors and phrases and how to act to not make people upset, confused, or angry. So much so that I have been accused of being manipulative. But in a lot of ways my understanding feels shallow compared to the other humans, like a child with powerful toys I feel I don't understand alot of things. I have never had a solid relationship before, I've been in an open bdsm one and the other one was with a girl who at one time kissed another man then felt guilty, came to me, slept with me, said "I love you" earnestly, and the next day asks me not to walk so close to her because people might think "we're together" we broke up three times over the course of six months, in the end she cheated on me, thought according to her we were never boyfriend/girlfriend.

I watching coupling (on the BBC she likes Dr who and star trek and bowie which are all on my top list, she likes manga I tell her about my love for the graphic novel) and it makes me sad to know that these very adult relationships portrayed on the show would not have any personal connections with her, she'd only have her knowledge from other how people act in her book and other shows to rely on. The dance scares me and excites me, we can have fun talking in soup plantation with her parents nearby for 3 hours so I don't really care that it's going to be possible very awkward and hard. I am actually afraid of being in situation when we're grinding, she pretty reserved so hopefully we'll just slow dance but freaking is a pretty mature move and she very attractive and I just don't want to be hormoned into to a too serious situation.

sorry so long so guys asked lots of things that are hard to describe

 

ya you're right..I'm sensing a lack of ethics too

 

If you're willing to wait for sex until she's of legal age, maybe you just ought to wait for a relationship until then, too. You might both change your minds about each other between now and then, and you know, there's not a thing wrong with that. And you may not, only time will tell.

 

See, I just want to say
What the hell is wrong with you?!?

Surely you must have some idea yourself that this thing that is not physical...yet, is oh, Not Right - or you wouldn't keep on with this questioning...especially related to ethics.

sweet cheezus

 

You wanna spend all your time with a 14 yr old... hmmmm

 

The thing is, and I'm sure you hear this a lot, but there is a major difference between 14 and 20, but the difference isn't as bad when she's 18 and you're 24. There are almost 4 years between my significant other and I and we've been together since I was 18 and those first few years were hard enough as it was because there was even a fairly big age difference between an 18 year old and a 22 year old. I've grown up a lot even since 18, and since 14? I'm a completely different person.

Another example to you is my friends, we'll call them T and A. A was 21 when he and T started seeing each other. She was 15. It was alright when it was just flirting and hanging out in our group of friends, but then they decided to start dating and it was a terrible year for all involved. She was too immature for him and brought him down several notches with her, and he was just trying to learn to live on his own and start taking responsibility for his life. It was like watching two dogs playing tug of war with each other, neither were getting anywhere, and it just became very very unhealthy. Then she moved away and they took a hiatus for a few years and saw other people. She graduated high school and moved back to go to college here and they decided to give it another go, and you know, it's like night and day compared to their previous relationship when they were younger. She's not so clingy and he's got the hang of the independent life. They coexist, it's not a parasitic relationship anymore.

Maybe you should keep your "relationship" as is for now, just friends, maybe a little flirting, but nothing more. You can still take her to homecoming, but you need to make sure she understands how serious it would be if anyone even thought you were anything more than friends until she's older. You don't have to have sex with her to have someone accuse you of that and a rumor like that could really destroy you. At her age, all it takes is someone claiming that they overheard you guys even mentioning sex and you're in MAJOR trouble. One mention of anything of even the slightest sexual nature around her in front of the wrong person can have you branded as a sex offender the rest of your life. It's lame, but that's how the world works these days. 20 and 14 used to be common, sexual harassment wasn't something commonly heard of, but times have changed and so has society. Society does not like 14 and 20 year olds together and they will do everything they can to keep you apart. So really, if you truly like this girl and truly respect your friendship and the possibility of a romance when you're both older, you'll just keep it as friends. You're just asking for trouble otherwise.

 

That's right. She may be nice and mature for her age but the point is she's still a kid. She may be exceptionally unique and different from her generation, a complete knock out in your eyes but she's still a kid. So yes people will see her as a walking 14. Is it morally wrong to date someone who is 14? Maybe..Yes. Is it wrong to want to? No. Because she's so nice and mature for her age and she's relatible at some points. The point is here you are more mature, wiser, and you know what you want essentially. And there she is, still growing still learning, so many steps behind you. That's where it looks bad.
Right now it's just holding hands and footsies. But she's amazing to you, so how can you honestly say that one day footsies and holding hands might be a little more sensual..then a makeout..and then sex. You can't predict that, you might get caught up in excitement.
No one here can tell you what is right and what is wrong because everyone will have different opinions on the subject matter.
Should you continue dating this girl in my opinion? no. Even tho she's beautiful and an exceptional person and mature for her age. It is unethical.

It would be different if you were an older man and she was at a more mature point in her life. But she's only 14...that's just old enough to watch family guy. She can't get into a bar, or watch a rated r movie. She can still get away with trick or treating....Just trying to paint a picture for you here.

There are some things I want to do as well that I shouldn't do. Like I hate condoms! and don't like messing with my body using hormonal birth control. But I can't go out and make the monster with two backs with an unwrapped friend- doesn't work that way. Then again I very well could but it could have consequences.

Kind of like your situation, you probably shouldn't. In my opinion, but if you go ahead and date her there will probably be consequences. Is it legal?..I don't think it is. There's nothing stopping you from finding a woman who's just as great who's closer to your own age.

 

I know you really don't want to hear all this man. My guess is you quit reading this tread already - It ain't what you want to hear.

Love is a bitch man. There is very little that trumps love - self preservation, threats, advice - love trumps all those things. But be aware - love between a man and a woman (or girl) has a natural progression - as it should. And the culmination of the relationship is becoming one body - one soul which is achieved by having your body inside hers and her accepting you. It's life - it's love.

Should her parents become involved I see very bad things - very bad. Even outside sex just the mere act of touching in erotic places can be legally construed as molestation on a girl that age. That never goes away. And should, by some act of God, you not consummate the relationship there will certainly be touching.

It hurts, it sucks, it's not fair. But it's true.

 

lol I don't think its fucked up but I can see how it could be considered fucked. If you can't see how, then you need shrooms. It'll help you see from a younger perspective.

 

update.

We didn't go to the dance together, I though we'd tell her parents together but it came up during the week and they kind of freaked out.

It was rough for two weeks, we all decided that we'd stay much more around being friends. (It's very common thing for two people to like each other and not be able to be in a relationship; isn't that what "the office" and like a gizillion other stories about, friends who like each other and some preexisting thing that stops them from being more, for us it's our age of course)
We still meet for lunch after church, and her mom was not thrilled about emailing so we're planning to step back a bit in time and write letters. This last week was great our families we're doing a charity thing and we both worked on a shadow puppet show (youtube Indonesian shadow puppet if you want to know what it's like) . So we got to work together and hang out basically every night.

On the performance night before the show we had a good amount of down time. I had my arm around her and the techy (basically her aunt) got a little upset at me, (took my arm off her niece and said you don't want to be labeled, here a hint it starts with a "p") We were holding hands a little but we were on a bench so it wasn't very private and then she sat on her hands. I looked at her awkward sitting position (it doesn't look very comfortable sitting on your hands) She said something like if I don't sit on my hands I don't think I can stop them from holding yours. I just thought it was very sweet and showed restraint, in fact more restraint than myself. She didn't want to make her aunt, her parents, or my mother upset at me.

Oh and we have more realistic expectations, I was hoisting a very typical 21st birthday party and I told Her that I'd prob dance and flirt. She said well she figured if it was a college party that that would happen. I didn't tell her a woman I slept with 2 months ago was there, but nothing happened with that woman. I guess I never mentioned that I slept with someone sort of recently, in fact it was basically a week before I asked her to homecoming and the thought of going steady came up.