‘The conspiracy’ what’s the point?

“But...

You're the one that can't put together two sentences about your acclaimed followings of communism.”

**

What?

Sorry Aristartle but is that aimed at me?

The problem is that I’m not a follower of communism.

I’ve actually mentioned that many times but if you have missed it I’ll say it again ‘I’m not a follower of communism’

But I’ll admit to being a bit of a pragmatic socialist with an environmental streak and from that position I’ve been commenting from here for over four years so there’s a lot of threads to prove it if you want to go and look.

Yours

Balbus

 

um. Who cares if his views are dishonest, he writes evavisely in your opinion, doesn't have all the facts, and isn't willing to debate his views?

What the fuck is your point?

He contributes to the site on a daily basis, he changes his mind, and throws in the towel when he sees fit to do so.

I have no idea why your above post and others are so fixated on what Pressed_Rat says and means at each and every syllable.

If you don't trust Pressed_Rat, that's wonderful. I'm glad you finally got it all out on the table.

My point is, I don't really care if you are or are not a communist, nor do I care to go back 4 years in these threads to prove so. Perhaps I have an unwillingness to debate the issue.

You have failed to realize that this is webforum, and if you don't trust whatever Pressed_Rat has to say about voting, or whatever his views are from one day to the next then good for you. What? Do you want us all to condemn him or something? Agree with you or disagree? Tell him not to post here anymore because we dismiss everything he ever says?

Do you really want him to start posting differently or are you just having fun criticizing him all the time?

Get over it. The man has never done any harm to this forum, or anyone belonging to it by sharing a different view. Those of you who are fixated all act as if he's a menace to the forum. For Christ's sake, go watch Survivor if you need the drama.

 

'

Got any proof?

 

Rat is quite the icon around here. He speaks the truth deliberatley and unbiasedly, and so therefore condemed to the gallows as so many before him who tried to do the ultimite sin...
Cast pearls before swine.
THat is all this man can be held accountable for, other than tireless investigation and open-mindedness...something not much well suited for oblivious domestication. All that really is being strangled Therefore is the Lack of pioneer spirit in this frontier from all the scallywags laggin behind, since tha most of ya are sheep laddies, where-fore art thou shephard?

 

You dissapoint me James. The guy is full of shit...its the whole faith over reasoning thing all over, and over again...and its all put forward under the guise of open mindedness. Just because only a few eccentric, clandestine wackos actually believe it, doesn't make it some sort of divine wisdom which can only be possessed by the "small percentage of the people in the world capable of critical thinking".

Aristartle, you have a really good point. Balbus should have let this thing go a long time ago. But I still see his intentions behind the whole pressed_rat witch hunt. He's bent on exposing a dangerous new trend in politics and religion in the west today, pseudo-reasoning.

And like cooloner says "its annoying when someone is so bent on thining they're right all the time when they're so obviously not". And the guy's a fricken liar. Aristartle sometimes i'm under the impression that you simply fail to read the discussion before coming to conclusions...maybe i'm wrong but I certainly don't like being preached to in an almost dictator like manner, wouldn't you be the same? Ok, i'm ranting...

 

Do I sense jealousy?

You say I am full of shit, but what does this say about you?

James disappoints you because he doesn't believe what you want him to believe? Would you rather him say what you want him to say, rather than what he believes?

If so, it confirms a lot about what I already think of you.

But where does religion come into this? I work hard to EXPOSE religion for what it is, yet you and Balbus conveniently go back to the religion thing. How can I be religious when I am not a member of any religion? I am spiritual, but I don't adhere to any of the manmade religions that have been used to divide and conquer over the years, bringing death to millions.

You say I am full of shit, and if that's your opinion, I respect that. But where are your facts? I come in here with information, while you respond in the same reactionary way that most people do. They simply react. They never think before they react. They never bring anything of substance to a debate, only petty bullshit.

Balbus sees me as a threat to what he wants people to believe, which is why he is constantly dictating to people who I am and what I believe. It's obvious that any opinion differing from his own infuriates this guy, and I can see it does you as well. That is fine, I don't give a damn. I am entitled to my own views. I can say whatever the fuck I want to say, just like you and your friend Balbus can say what you want. I don't have to agree with it, but I am free to speak my mind about what I feel. The same applies to you.

 

That is completely untrue. I am actually very open minded and tolerant when it comes to beliefs. How will the human race decipher which political/lifestyle systems work and which will not? I am not a fundamentalist and do not dismiss any idea unless I believe it harmful to the wellbeing of all people. If you were to make clear your ideas for a better society (which you have at times, though haphazardly) I think many of us would be quite willing to discuss the matter in a healthy and rational way. As an anarchist I don't believe in forcing ideas. I wish it didn't have to come down to a petty blame fest, but i'm sorry to say it is you who chooses to dismiss every political idea which contradicts yours. If you look at the matter critically, which you have many times stated you are quite capable of doing, you'll find that the fierce and aggressive debate focuses around self righteous fundamentalists such as yourself and not the large majority of hipforumers who are quite able to accept the validity of differing opinions and human ingenuity.

I think its unfortunate to have to repeat the same thing that I said when I first entered this debate 2-3 months ago, but pressed_rat you must realise it is not your beliefs that I have anything against, it is your fanatical willingness to label and unrealistically criticise ours.

I am dissapointed with James because I feel that unlike you, he does not feel a dire need to attack every single person with ideas differing to yours. He is far above giving credit to you. Jealous? It is I who respects james and I don't wish anything for the other way round unless he chooses to do so.

You're religious. Good and Evil are religious beliefs. You display the typical characteristics of a religious person. You're religious.

No, I only react to you! Its sad, you come up with so much good information too, but its accompanied by this pathetic religious fervour. What a waste of intelligence

Absolutely right. But if you're more or less going to shit on anyone who doesn't agree with you by what you say, prepare to be held accountable.

The thing is rat, I might agree with you, just like I am quite willing to either compromise or criticise my beliefs and be persuaded by someone with a fair judgement on the subject...I think your capable of doing the same, but will your incredible faith in your own opinions ever allow you to do so?

 

Actually, I don't believe in good and evil. I might have unintentionally referred to "good and evil" before, but those are the wrong words. There is no such thing as good and evil. But there are light and dark forces present in the universe, and it's the Global Elite who engage in rituals that invoke these dark forces. It doesn't matter if you believe in this sort of thing or not, the fact of the matter is THEY DO.

If you were to study the highest levels of Freemasonry like I have, you would see that it's all satanic in nature. All one has to do is read Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma.

These people engage in bizarre caananite rituals, and if anyone has seen Alex Jones' Dark Secrets: Inside Bohemian Grove, they will see this for themselves. They will see our elected leaders and their corporate minions dressed in hooded robes, performing a mock human sacrifice on an alter in front of a 40 foot stone owl called Molech.

Moving on....

I don't attack people, except when I am attacked first. Even then I try not to go down that road, but I get frustrated by people sometimes. I really think you are projecting on to me, and I think you should really look at your own actions and behavior before getting critical about mine.

You have said I am full of shit, among other things. Is that not an attack on me?

 

actually the illumanita were the origional anti-establisment/catholiscms organizations, and an honorouble one at that. the church smeared their campaign with prophetic dogma and the later generations of the illumaniti believed these things about themselves, and therefore embraced their ancestors although this is not what they stood for.
They were all hunted down and they ran and the Freemason's gave them refuge, an anceint brotherhood who's backs the secrets of building civilization.
It seems the illumanati was a very influential organization. they are the link between the masons and satanic rituals...where it all started in freeemasonry. (not trying to justify where it is now)
read "dan brown """Angels and Demons""'
i heard about those 2 books a few days ago...and was wondering what they were called agian so i could get em...there ya go.

 

Hmmmm...I think you have jumped into political debates with more intention to discredit other people's beliefs then you'd like to admit.

You're so right, i am projecting. Is that wrong? Don't you find it dissapointing that the Earth is full of people bent on saying they're right instead of recognising the benefits of tolerance and diversity? I know you do, and thats why both of us are against globalisation and the establishment of a tyrannic world state.

But why the hell must you, for convenience sake, attack every point of view that suggests some sort of solution to the same problems you worry about? Is it because its all laid out neatly in your nice little book?

And this "label" bullshit your mind has so conveniently generated...i can't bleieve you buy into it. You reject every other political ideology (for reasons that they wouldn't work) except that of a "constitutional republic" (hmmm...not a label?). You're labelled up to your damn eyebrows man.

I sincerely no longer give a fuck about this argument. You can sit here and bash everyone for "being fooled" while some of us actually put petty fundamentalisms aside and hopefully pick up the courage and motivation to come up with real solutions.

 

Good and Evil is only relevant in natural funcitons of this earth. Good is things condusive with this process. Evil is anything that opposes this process. As is true with everything the human body is a part of this intricate processs, and therefore the mind's rationale as well.
For example, life is constantly seeking out footholds in alein land, ever growing and expanding, evolving...so is true with the mind. To supress this process to limit searching hypothes's and considering alein land is therefore the only true evil that there ever is. so above, so below, because we are killing the land in this induldence.

 

the constitutional republic laid forth by the masons for this country was perfect in theory, but so is communism. unfortunatly it slowly diverged into a facist corparate interest it is today. one could argue it's always been so. as long as there is a desire for humans to one up each other, this will be the case.
there is a fine line between the military protecting the homeland and the military becoming the homeland.

 

I always read the discussions in this forum before posting, and yeah - I have been fairly stand-offish at times. Today I went on a rampage posting-spree, but I always read before I post.

I'm a little aggressive that's all. It's a redhead thing.

....

While I do not always agree with whatever Pressed_Rat has to say or whatever, I actually like him because he says it anyway knowing he's bound to provoke at least one of you. I haven't been here long but I'm sick to death of this thread - This thread is all about publicly bullying Pressed_Rat and high-fiving other posters whenever the man doesn't have it all figured out.

I think you are all gutless for allowing this to continue.

 

Thanks. You are a sweetheart.

I am through with this thread. I know I am probably feeding into it by even responding to their attacks, but I don't want to be accused of leaving a debate, either, as I am often accused of by people like Balbus. It really doesn't matter to me, though I can't say I don't get frustrated over such petty bullshit, especially when I am being ganged up on by multiple people at once.

 

Pressed Rat, you are shameless, sweetheart.

Thanks for completely missing the point and entirely misjudging my motives. I'll let balbus make his own defence but I certainly have good reason for every post i'm making here, have you read the above posts? I stand against everything that promotes intolerance and self-righteousness. You're right in saying it shouldn't continue, the guy's an empty threat. But I don't think he deserves any encouragement for being some sort of "lone ranger", I think thats where he derives the greatest pleasure. With all the "I don't derive to labels" talk and "I am the only one capable of critical thinking", I think you can quite easily come to a conclusion about how constructive his posts really are.

I've seen how hotheaded you get in other threads because of people just like rat...how the hell is this different? Are you the bleeding heart here to save the day? Trust me, I have no desire to bully anyone, and don't think i'm so stupid not to see that we don't hardly leave a nick, let alone a scar on the guy's overinflated ego.

I really am genuinely fucked off at this sort of thing and I don't think I for one deserve to be called a bully, I'm not speaking to anyone else here though.

Paying the hell out of lickherish was a damn good laugh though ...uhhh, shameless i am

 

Ok. So when exactly can we close this thread?

 

Ha ha, you're asking the impossible. I wonder if Balbus is man enough. Really, i think we've all made up our own minds here.

 

LOL

Impressive 1,187 views and counting, but it’s not exactly Survivor viewing figures.

**

As I hinted at in my last post (and something already picked up by the astute Lying in a Field) this is not really about Rat but about certain mentalities and attitudes personified by Rat.

Rat is not that important, if he wasn’t here someone else would turn up with one or more of these mentalities so I could continue my enquires, it is just that Rat is here and has them all in abundance.

Lucky me

**

I’ve already said why I believe Rat is dishonest but as I see it this is a wider problem in American politics, it is not just that politicians are dishonest it is that many Americans accept the dishonesty. Many just don’t care if people are dishonest and so allow those that are dishonest to see it as acceptable behaviour also.

It is as if Americans believe that politics is about lying so it just becomes a matter of whose lies fit in with their viewpoint. The question is how did they get the viewpoint to begin with.

There are Americans that think it was acceptable for Bush and the Neo-cons to be dishonest about the reasons for going to war in Iraq and there are many people here that seem to think is acceptable for Rat to be dishonest on the forum.

**

One of the first things I realised about American politics when I came to these forums was the prevalence of the either/or mentality. And my investigation of this has been a theme in many of my posts since then.

Maybe it is the different nature of European politics and the more diverse political spectrum available to many of us over here at this time but European politics can be a lot more about finding a consensus. American politics seem to be a lot more about picking a side and sticking with it.

Remember when Bush told the world that “you are for us or against us”, from what I hear that went down well with a lot of Americans and was an acceptable thing to say. Most people outside of America thought it crass and stupid.

At the time we had a lot of ‘love it or leave’ posts on the forum Americans that thought that you could only either love the US unconditionally or leave it. To them it was a fight between good and evil, of darkness and light and the US was a force of the light.

Rat has this same mentality to him you are either on the side of darkness or light, it is that simple you can either think as he does or you are knowingly or unknowingly working for evil.

And he accepts no compromise.

**

Which brings me to another thing I’ve noticed about American politics for many it often seems to be more about faith than reason.

Many Americans think that their religion or believes dictates the way they vote politically, political outlook and religious beliefs become in some way mixed together. But religions are irrational they are basically fairy tales

Rat has a personal religion he believes in forces of darkness and light and a supernatural force he has named God which he believes gives him the power to ‘know’ what is right and wrong.

This faith has revealed to him that certain right wing nationalistic politics is right and good and that (knowingly or unknowingly) liberals, left wingers, socialists, communists and anarchists are all working for the forces of darkness.

This is something I’ve noticed in many Americans, a religiously based believe that right wing politics is natural and good and left wing politics is somehow perverted and evil.

**

Many Americans seem to believe that political debate is about giving statements and not having to explain or discuss them. This runs right through American politics, from Presidential ‘debates’ that are so stage managed that they may as well be scripted to political radio hosts that block out anything that goes against there political views.

I’ve noticed time and again that most of these people get upset about being questioned mainly because they are totally unable to defend the statement when it doesn’t stand up to sruntiny.

But the problem as I see it is that many of these people are not upset because there views don’t stand up they are upset because someone has had the effrontery to question them.

They don’t look at their viewpoint and ask why it didn’t stand up they blame the other person for being biased against it. They cannot seemingly make the connection between their statements not standing up and the possibility that their views could be wrong.

So many want to post but they don’t want to debate, but sorry this is a debating forum and that’s why we have a reply button so if you post here you are asking for your views to be debated, like it or not.

**

I don’t want to condemn Rat I cherish him and have told him on many occasions how amusing he is and of course if I didn’t want him here I could just ban him (there have been enough complains). But no I want to understand him because if I can understand the person this would most likely give me an insight into the wider problem. In fact I’ve learned a lot already I hope to learn more.

As to this being a witch hunt that is just stupid, I mean this place is voluntary it’s not as if I drag Rat here with a subpoena or the men in black.

So as long as Rat wishes to post on this webforum I’m free and happy to continue with my own enquires.

Lucky me

(queue maniacal laughter, fade out)

 

(fade in)

I asked in this thread – ‘the conspiracy’ what’s the point?

The answer seems quasi-religious in nature, it is about a battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness.

Rat claims that he ‘knows’ this because he has spiritual enlightenment or something but is he any different in his view than the other members of the religious right?

Can an irrational thing like religion be a good basis for choosing a political outlook or do you think the political outlook is there already and the person chooses the religion to suite it?

Also what happens next?

We are told that if ‘the conspiracy’ win they will be nasty to everyone because they are evil but what happens if the forces of light prevail? What kind of political and economic system would be in place?

 

Yep, Australia too tends to be a little more about compromise and tolerance and less about "YOU'RE ALL FUCKING WRONG". Thats why when I first started posting on hipforums I was genuinely shocked. Nobody talks shit like an American. No offence. Maybe rat is right.......its all divide and conquer.