SCOTUS stops the election interference....cold!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Coachdb18, Mar 4, 2024.

  1. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    In other words, you think there might be something to them. Those darkies aren't keepin' their place!

    Wrong. Even some conservative jurists thought Trump shouldn't be on the ballot because of the Fourteenth Amendment, but I agree that interpretation of the Amendment shouldn't be left to each state.

    Stereotyping again? I'm somehow associated with U.S. policy outcomes you don't like. BTW, the Bern isn't somebody I'm not sure about. Socialism doesn't appeal to me at all. ;)

    There you go again, putting words in my mouth. I have no problem with voter ID, but I do have problems with laws tailored to keeping minorities from voting: restricting the number of polling sites in minority communities, prohibiting giving water to people standing for hours to access their right to vote, and eliminating things like early voting.
    How Republicans are trying to prevent people from voting after ‘stop the steal’
    Under the Radar, Right-Wing Push to Tighten Voting Laws Persists
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/
    Ironically, Republicans may have shot themselves in the foot with that one! Bad strategy? How the Republican attack on voting rights could backfire
     
  2. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    Oooh. “January 6 invasion”, now. I was told it was an insurrection but invasion sounds even more salacious. Good one. I can’t figure out how the “retrumplicans” (I really like that one) who are the most heavily armed demographic in the country, with the most military training and even combat experience, all seemed to forget their weapons at home and failed to use even basic small-unit movement tactics, so they had to resort to “manhandling” the police. Freaking amateurs. Thank god our brave capitol plice were able to get them out by… telling them the building was closing and asking them to leave.
     
  3. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    [/QUOTE]
    No. Did you read the book? I was referring to the rampant violence and other crime he depicted and the various anti-white attitudes and policies he mentioned. They seemed very far fetched at the time. Unfortunately they seem much less so now.
     
  4. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    So those scenes in which the mob was battering thru doors and windows and beating up on Capitol police were fake news? Crisis actors? Antifa? yadda yadda yadda.
    New January 6 video shows three hours of violent assault on police | CNN Politics
    https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/fiel...seeks-publics-help-in-identifying-them-070621
    ‘They Got a Officer!’: How a Mob Dragged and Beat Police at the Capitol (Published 2021)

    Invasion: an occasion when a large number of people or things come to a place in an annoying and unwanted way. Cambridge English Dictionary: Meanings & Definitions
     
  5. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    Dont know. But it certainly wasnt Juno beach. And I’m fairly certain that if the “retrumplicans” had wished to stage any form of insurrection, there would have been far more than fisticuffs.
     
  6. Tishomingo

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    If there had been an armed attack, push would have come to shove! That would probably have made lots of folks think twice. What the attack was about was mainly to prevent Congress from completing the formalities of declaring the winner of the election. Pence didn't play the desired role. Hence the cry: "Hang Mike Pence!", followed by construction of a gallows. Many of the participants seem to have been unwitting dupes, called there by their President and promised it would be "wild".

    It was an interesting time here on HF. We had some newcomers like some dude with a skeletal icon foretelling us about the momentous events that were going to occur, and a step up in QAnon-style rhetoric about Democrat "pedophiles". And shortly after, some kind of showdown in which a bunch of people--including a mod named Orison and a prominent AltLite "Great Replacement" theory believer called "Six-eyed Shaman"--departed. Since I wasn't privy to the behind-the-scenes intrigue, I have no idea what that was all about. But it was interesting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2024
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  7. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    On January 6 the insurrectionists were found to be armed with a variety of weapons including a gun, baseball bats, chemical sprays, a police officer’s riot shield, a crowbar, fire extinguishers, a wooden club, a spear, crutches, a stun gun, a wooden beam, a hockey stick, knives, batons, and a metal flagpole.

    They also had gas masks, body armor and tactical gear, radios, and zip ties.
    Other weapons may have been present but not everyone was searched.

    Before and after the storming of the building 12 firearms were seized including a Tavor X95 assault weapon, a loaded shotgun, a loaded pistol, thousands of rounds of ammunition, machetes, a crossbow with bolts, smoke bombs, another stun gun, 2 pipe bombs, and 11 Molotov cocktails.

    Stuart Rhodes of the Oath Keepers, planned the attack through encrypted messages, non digital means, surveillance, and weapon storage in Alexandria. They met with the Proud Boys on Jan. 3 to coordinate. On Jan. 6 the Oath Keepers attacked the building in two tactical "stacks" with a German Shepard.

    We were lucky that more people weren't killed as they were planning to hang Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.
    “They’re criminals. They need to hang,” she (Pauline Bauer) screamed. “Bring Nancy Pelosi out here now. We want to hang (her). Bring her out.”
     
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  8. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    Alright. But I’m interested in your categorization this time. You’ve demonstrated a clear propensity for it. How would you categorize the event? Was it an invasion? An insurrection? Some heavy handed lobbying? A mostly peaceful and boringly un-firey protest? Something else entirely? I’m interested in YOUR categorization, not that of Webster or some news source or some academic source. I’d like to read YOUR choice of a descriptor or label and YOUR reasoning for it, rather than yet another appeal to authority via a link or citation. I’m truly hoping you’ve not been in academia so long as to be incapable of forming your own thought, using your own experience and reasoning. Citations, especially in the social sciences, have become harder and harder to differentiate from an academic circle-jerk.
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I'll reply, if you don't mind...
    The occurrence on January 6th at the capitol building was an armed attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power by capturing and killing duly elected officials of the U.S. government and by disrupting the transfer of power to a new president of the United States by storming the building thus forcing an evacuation of the Senate and House chambers when they came under armed attack.

    Parts of the attempt were planned by treasonous citizens and parts were due to a riot by those protesting against a peaceful transfer of power and who were instigated to riot and storm the building by Donald Trump and his followers, who I might add, were also committing acts of treason.
     
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  10. Bocci

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    The battery of weapons you’ve listed would barely (and poorly) arm a single infantry squad. How many thousands of people were there? You know if any significant weapons were present the news media would have had them laid out on display for effect.

    As a former machine gunner, the phrase assault weapon has no power over me. Assault weapons proper (those capable of full auto fire) are not at all easily available, almost completely preclude well aimed shots, and unless they are used by someone with good training/ experience, tend to jam easily.

    As to the tavor. There is a reason the tavor is not a widely adopted rifle. No, it’s not due to some ever-present anti-semitism. It is needlessly expensive, awkward to use, and not as accurate and reliable as more common alternatives.

    As for this Rhodes person, I think their only tactical success has been in convincing you and those like you that they actually posed a threat to anyone. Kinda like shooting fish in a barrel I suspect.
     
  11. Bocci

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    Hmm. The phrase “means, motive, and opportunity” come to mind. They may have had the motive. I can’t seriously believe they had the other two unless you believe all the police and secret service in attendance that day amounted to keystone cops.

    But “treason”? Now that’s a mighty serious charge. With some even more serious consequences. Not a term I would use lightly and I don’t even believe that any of our federal elected officials have the best interests of their citizens at heart.
     
  12. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Are you contesting that weapons were present at the Jan. 6 insurrection?

    Assault weapon is a legal term applied to certain non auto firing weapons, rifles, shotguns, and pistols.
    I said nothing about full automatic weapons.

    Are you saying a Tavor X95 assault weapon can't kill people? Or that you would choose something else?

    Stuart Rhodes was convicted of seditious conspiracy, that is conspiring to overthrow, put down, or destroy the Government of the United States by force. He got 18 years. I would say he was a threat.

    Are you excusing his, and others, attempt to overthrow our government becasue they were inapt in your view?
     
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  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Seems to me they had the motive, as you say, the overthrow of the government.

    They had the means as they did temporally stop the transfer of power and they did gain access to both chambers of Congress as well as various offices and other areas of the building. One individual had to be shot and killed to prevent an attack on members of the House of Representatives before they could evacuate.

    And they obviously had the opportunity as they did it.

    Treason is the betrayal of allegiance toward one's own country, especially by committing hostile acts against it or aiding its enemies in committing such acts.
    Benedict Arnold was treasonous even though he never stormed the capitol nor threatened to hang the vice president nor the speaker of the house.

    You don't believe ANY federal elected officials have the best interests of their citizens at heart? Really? You don't support any elected federal official? I assume you don't vote in any federal elections, nor subscribe to any federal laws, as they are passed by federal elected officials.
    Have you always thought that way? You have never supported our federal government?
     
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  14. Bocci

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    Weapons? No. Insurrection? Yes. The dandelions on my front lawn stage more of an insurrection every spring than was staged on January 6th.

    If assault weapon is a legal term applied as you have outlined, then it simply demonstrates the ignorance or dishonesty of our legislators.

    I’m not saying the tavor can’t kill people. What I am saying is, if a group of people with any training at all in the use of military small arms wished to assault any target, let alone the highest branch of government of the most powerful nation in the world, they would not have chosen the ridiculous battery of weapons you listed. I’m sorry if you thought that list was scary and made your point but it was not and did not.

    As to Mr. Rhodes, he may be truly guilty. I don’t know. In the age of political lawfare and selective application of the law and prosecutions, the judicial system has squandered the great respect that it once enjoyed. It won’t be easily or quickly restored.
     
  15. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    Are you new to this conversation? I have stated previously that I’ve not voted since bush v gore. No, I don’t support any elected federal official. “Nor subscribe to any federal laws?” What are you, high? No, I have not always thought this way. I used to be quite the idealist: reality cured me.

    “One individual had to be shot and killed…” Yeah she was a vicious beast who would have made AOC cry or flicked McConnells waddle if she had got the opportunity. I hope they pinned a medal on that brave cop for having the guts to shoot an unarmed woman in the neck. Unless the woman was black, of course. If she was, then someone should hang that cop.
     
  16. Tishomingo

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    Man, you must have some tough dandelions! One in five of the folks who participated in the event were charged with committing violent crimes, including 1,000 assaults against police officers. https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965472049/the-capitol-siege-the-arrested-and-their-stories#database Those rioters broke doors, smashed windows, vandalized offices, called for hanging the vice president and the Speaker of the House, and shut down the House and Senate of our republic for several hours. over 500 people were charged with criminal behavior, including assault, battery, and unlawful possession of firearms. One of these "dadelions", a Marine Corps vet and retired New York cop, used a flagpole to attack a police officer. Another knocked an officer to the ground and kicked him. Another struck an officer in the head with a skateboard. Then there was the jerk who used a police shield to pin poor Officer Hodges in a door jam, where video showed him screaming in agony while being crushed Dozens of Capitol and Metropolitan police suffered broken bones, brain injuries, and chemical burns from these maggots run amok. No big deal? Those officers were doing their duty defending their country's capitol!
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2024
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  17. Bocci

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    Well sure but, “come on man,” it was after the summer of firey but mostly peaceful protests. They had watched it on every screen for months. They knew no body cared about a little bit of rioting here or Molotovs there. Roughing up some cops? Nah, they was just defending themselves from police brutality. Besides, all cops are bastards, right? As for 1 in 5 charged with crimes? Shee-it, who ain’t been charged with multiple felonies? All these stupid laws are just “the man’s” way of keepin us down.
     
  18. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Okay let me understand. Are you telling me that you don't think a baseball bat, for example, can be used as a weapon?
    What is your definition of a weapon?

    Second, are you telling me that as these people didn't assault the capitol building with an M1A2 Abrams main battle tank, no insurrection occurred?

    Third, why does a legal term for a type of weapon demonstrate the ignorance or dishonesty of our legislators???

    Fourth, again, are you saying that pitch forks and shovels can't be used to attack a government building? Are you trying to argue that because these people weren't properly armed, in your opinion, that no insurrection occurred? The building wasn't attacked, the peaceful transfer of power wasn't interrupted, no lives were in danger, and the building should not have been evacuated? The House and Senate members should have remained seated in their chambers?
    In short are you telling us that nothing happened because these people weren't properly armed?

    Fourth what is lawfare?
     
  19. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    This literally had me in stitches!
    Based!
     
  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    So you don't vote, you don't support any elected federal official at all, and you don't subscribe to any federal laws. Interesting.
    What is this "reality" that caused you to deny the legitimacy of the entire Constitutional system of the American government?

    I also hope they gave that man a medal. He stopped the rioters and insurrectionists from entering the unevacuated Speaker's Lobby and killing or injuring a number of people. She was warned that a gun was pointed at her, she was told to retreat but she didn't and she started to climb through the window.
    In fact all of the defenders of the capitol building and the peaceful transfer of power on that day should have gotten a medal.
    And as I watched that day unfold in real time, I wondered why the building wasn't defended more aggressively.
    Firearms should have been discharged at the interlopers the second they breached those windows.
    In fact how did they know those windows were unreinforced? They ran past 15 reinforced windows to attack two windows and two unreinforced doors. How did they know those areas hadn't been upgraded?
    Sounds like an inside job and advanced planning to me.
     
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