mushinbumalice:
I'm glad to have helped (..if that's what I did). All the best with your plans.
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Syntax:
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Originally Posted by Syntax
Hm. I haven't read anything on the subject, but I think that the lack of structured socialization would be a big problem to overcome for homeschooled children.
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I don't mean to be rude - and thanks for sharing your thoughts - but did you read the article I linked to above? Also, "structured" is quite a vague term - can you elaborate as to what you mean by it in this context? I suspect what you're referring to is the authoritarian framework in schools which quashes and suppresses the natural sociability in children; which imposes age and sex -segregation; and which attempts to organize - by the minute, second and ring of the bell - the manner in which children attempt to socialize and play together. There is little or nothing healthy or positive about this in my view.
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Originally Posted by Syntax
There are some children who can socialize when playing soccer, taking a crafts class or going to the park, but some don't!
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That seems to be a valid point, but it is outweighed by another one (..and you acknowledge this yourself in your post): some children can't socialize in school either. And - by the sheer volume of people, and the sheer length of time endured - the hurt (..perhaps even damage) caused by this inability to socialize is rendered all the more acute in a school environment. The suffering is prolonged and magnified you could say! Plus - again, by the sheer length of time it consumes - school
actually inhibits the possibility for people to 'try out' other forms of 'socializing'. With activities which take up less time - such as sports - there is at least plenty of time to explore other avenues if it doesn't work out. Not the case with school!
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Originally Posted by syntax
I've been in clubs, sport teams, music groups.... I am 18 now, and I can say that in my life, I haven't made a single friend in such a setting. In school and university, however, I met many people who I can consider to be friends.
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Well ... although there are still some people I know from university who I am very fond of, most of my friends (..in all honesty) I have met outside of college or school. But I'm 23; maybe you will be in similar circumstances down the line. I met some wonderfully colorful people through the work I did as a hotel porter during my weekends and holidays, for example.
I totally agree with your using prison as an analogy for school BTW; but totally
disagree with your musings based on this analogy. Rather than keeping children and teenagers
in prison - for the sake of an alleged bonding they experience - wouldn't it be far better to take them all
out, and allow them to form bonds in a more pleasant, non-stressful environment. Surely more positive relationships can be established than those formed around such a
negatively-charged common purpose. Surely children can be united through something other than "boredom and a common enemy"! And what happens once the "common enemy" is removed? Are they no longer united? People can discover they have "similar traits", and can "break the ice" very easily by other means - without sending themselves to prison!
The notion that children should be kept in a prison for this reason is deeply disconcerting in my view; and highlights how bizarre a mindframe the current educational system induces.
It's funny. My 11-year-old brother (..who - as alot of kids do - has had lots of different friends over the years) at one stage spent nearly all of his time with kids that he had met
not through school, but merely because
they lived in the neighborhood. They didn't need school to facilitate the socialization - and in fact they were almost all in different classes in school, so I'm not sure it even
could have facilitated the 'bonding'. They just got together and played football after school, and during the weekends and holidays. Furthermore, his friend who could possibly be deemed his 'best friend' at this stage, is also in a different class in school. Again, he's a friend not through school; but due to the fact that he lives across the road primarily!
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Even if I disagree with some of your views, I think it's good to discuss these things.
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jointman69:
First of all: you raise what seems to me to be a
very important point, i.e.
what the child/teenager actually wants. If I was your parent, and you wanted to go back to school because that's where your friends were, then I think I would more than likely make efforts to help get you back into school. I would urge you to acknowledge, however, that other children/teenagers - who were taken out of school at a far earlier age, or never went there in the first place - have developed friendships and social contacts via other means (i.e. outside school), and don't feel the sudden 'loneliness'/'emptiness'/'boredom' that you have, since being in a non-school environment.
I read another thread you started on homeschooling (..
here), and also responded to it. If you read my response, you will see that I added the caveat:
"I think in a lot of cases it's better to let things finish the course they have begun". You - jointman - would be such a case. If you have spent approximately ten years of your life developing friendships and social contacts through school, and then are all of a sudden deprived of those things, you are bound to feel a little isolated. People who have been living in the 'real world' from the beginning, however, have developed other friendships and social corridors, which they are perfectly happy with.
There is an implication in your posts that you are qualified to advise people on all alternatives to standard schooling; that you are somewhat of an 'authority' on the issue, which - with all due respects - I really don't think you are. In some ways, I'm not even sure the 'online school' you referred to qualifies as home-schooling - but more on that in a minute. To be honest, I purposely diluted my opinion of the schooling 'system' you are undergoing. Seeing as you are so lucid in expressing your own thoughts, however, allow me to be equally so myself.
How can you expect your social life to be the same when the learning environment you were previously in (..teachers, pupils etc.) has been replaced
by a computer screen? I think the internet is an absolutely amazing resource, and one that we should utilize greatly, but there's no point in expecting it to provide with you
physical social contact. Did you explore other avenues with your parents? Did you look into whether or not there are home-schooling groups in your area? If you live in a rural area, it's bound to be harder, but look into the idea of getting involved in
non-academic activities/projects in your community - get out into the 'real world' maybe! Also, as I said above - if I were your parent, and you were dissatisfied with the situation yourself, I don't think I would stand in the way of you going back to school. In my view, what the child/teenager wants is very important (..
as long as their demands are reasonable, of course), and I think that one of parents' primary aims should be to facilitate what they want.
If you're lying in bed till noon everyday, and can muster no enthusiasm in the course of your day, it merely illustrates how school has deprived you of the ability to think for yourself, and quashed any spontaneity, creativity and self-motivation you might be nurturing and taking advantage of otherwise. One of the things schools do most effectively is kill or subjugate such traits: it doesn't even give children the time to follow their own interests; or at least, in the short amount of free time they do have, they are recovering/recuperating from the experience of being forced to remember numbifyingly-boring information which bears little relevance to practical existence, and which they have no interest in whatsoever anyway.
It's interesting: the two teenagers (..you included) I've talked to who are unhappy with homeschooling are those who have enrolled in these 'online schooling' courses. I suspect - and by all means correct me if I'm wrong - that the others you referred to in your post (..who have "both been to public and home school") are also enrolled with one of these institutions. To begin with, does this even qualify as homeschooling - as the word was interpreted originially? Granted, you are physically seated in your home - but the people you are communicating with (..your teachers/tutors; other pupils perhaps) are in a far-removed location. They could be in another state, or country even! This bears little or no resemblance whatsoever to homeschooling as it was orinally understood. Originally, it meant a
sociable environment, where one learnt with the aid of family and/or guardians; where brothers and sisters often learnt together. In the other thread, you wrote "i do all my work online, my mom stays outta it". Well ...as I implied already:
if you have chosen to enroll in a course which involves sitting in front of a computer screen all the time, it's absurd to turn around and blame the lack of social contact you are experiencing on homeschooling (...to which the internet is an 'aid'; not the 'essence').
On the other hand, I have also discussed this topic with a person who never went to school (either online or in the physical community), and who - with the exception of some basic reading and maths skills their mother taught them as a child - claim to be almost completely self-taught. All of their friendships and social contacts have been developed outside of school. At only sixteen years of age, they struck me as being considerably more mature and intelligent than alot of grown-ups I know. I was also very impressed with their attitude and the way they presented their arguments - they had a surprisingly good command of the English language for their age! Maybe just a coincidence, but I have doubts. They seemed perfectly content with the circumstances!
If you want to go back to school, is there something stopping you? (..genuine question)
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Humans were socializing for a very long time before schools came about. Sociability is an indelible human characteristic; it always has been present to a sufficient degree, and always will be. The idea that school is needed to 'draw out' our sociable behaviour is an absolute absurdity. And all you need to do is walk through a suburb estate, a public park/green, or an inner-city street with terraced-housing, on a summer evening, and you'll see all the evidence you need: children and teenagers playing with all different ages, with little or no authoritarian intervention; there's no need for 'school' to facilitate the phenomenon.
...Maybe that's what I get for being all gung-ho and speaking my mind.
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