BNP leader Griffin on Question Time tonight

Originally Posted by jonny2mad

does it matter that someone is raised to believe its right to say stone homosexuals or that they choose to join a group that chooses to stone homosexuals they still accept that belief.

if I was brought up as a morman or I converted to mormanism it wouldnt make much difference to my beliefs if i stayed in the church I would be accepting the outlook of the church .

if jack straw rejected his religion and said I see these racist views at the core of being a jew I leave that would be Id say perfectly honourable of him , I left my religion I wasn't born in it I joined when i was 8, but joining at 8 is similar to being born into it.
if Id stayed in there are certain principles that being a morman included I couldn't be a morman and believe in smoking, or sex outside marriage, or that homosexuality was fine, its not up to personal whim .

So in your view it is not possible to be Jewish and not racist?

unless you publicly disassociated from the racist basis of being a Jew no I don't think it is possible , there are I suppose degrees of racism but belonging to a group that believe they are gods chosen people and part of that is racial is Id say racist .

Thats why I see it pretty ironic that lots of jews are involved in anti racism or that they got attacked by the nazis because its hard to find a group of people that have kept themselves so segregated .
I'm not having a go at people believing what they like if a group of people want to keep separate pah I don't care, but if members of that group attack other people who believe in keeping their group separated I think thats double standards .

its hard to find a group of people who have been expelled from as many country's as the Jew's , well over a hundred country's including the uk which had no Jew's living here from the early middle ages to the time of Cromwell this has happened not just in the Christian world but all over the place where they have settled .
there was racism against the jews but also they tried to keep themselves seperate that seems to be their history .

Originally Posted by jonny2mad

unless you publicly disassociated from the racist basis of being a Jew no I don't think it is possible

So all Jewish people are racists by definition. I wish you'd said this at the start, I wouldn't have wasted time trying to reason with such a palpably misguided view, which has quite a lot in common with the flawed essentialist reasoning of the BNP and the prejudices which follow from such faulty logic. Have a custard cream. Jonny you are literally a mentalist...

nope not all jews are racist ones that disassociated themselves from the racist elements of the religion arn't racist.
you get jews who have written books critical of racist parts of the talmud many who are considered ultra secular but are still fond of aspects of the jewish tradition

But you assume that they are all racist unless they've made some kind of special effort to convince you that they're not first...That's what you're saying here. That jews are basically racist. Just to be clear. Have a hobnob
I too am white European from white European parents who had white European parents, and so on. Curse my inherent racism

I do see what you're trying to say Jonny, but I see that Jon is right too. You have no basis whatsoever for assuming anyone is racist simply because they are Jewish. It's not as simple as "I'm this label and we all believe exactly this" (it would be easy if it was, I know) and I don't think Jewish people should have to try and convince those like you who automatically assume they will be racist. A person's individual character isn't defined by what their ancestors believed or did as has been said

Ironically we're supposed to be talking about Nick Griffin here...

Originally Posted by Fingermouse

Ironically we're supposed to be talking about Nick Griffin here...

Well we sort of are; Jonny's prejudiced assumption about an individual's essential or inherent qualities based entirely on their race or religion is exactly the same trivially false reasoning which underpins Nick Griffin's entire outlook...

True indeed Jonathian, true indeed. Now I want biscuits

wow, reading this thread has made me soo angry!

firstly i can't beleive how thick you acctually are johhny that you can't get very simple concepts into your head and the distinction between them. i also hope that you realise that from everything that i have read in your posts you are either increadably ignorant or a complete rasist yourself who is values anti-semistism! you acctually discust me and my God you seem like a complete arse hole!

anyone who could even say that anything to do with the bnp or there ploicies to be right or ok is just ignorant or rasist. i was acctually really shocked when they got nearly 1 million votes and quite discusted that so mnay people acctually went to the slightest effort to vote for such a repulsive political party. my only hope is that those people who voted were just ignorant and when the time comes again they have acctually educated themselfs enough to know hat voting for the bnp is wrong. however, i do beleive that they have a right to voice their views as everyone has that right though i hope they get publicly humiliated and slandered in the process which i think happeded during question time!!!

on a final note immigration into the county is a very positive thing. to stop it altogether would be very detrimental to the country!

I'm under the impression that to be racist is to be against a certain race. Jews don't condemn anyone as far as I'm aware. Nick condemns anyone who isn't 'pure'. There's a massive difference between the Jewish way of life and the opinion of a dodgy politician who gained a seat threw fear and frustration. It wasn't just white people who voted for the bnp. Why is it thar we're discussing the fundimentals of the jewish faith? They are brilliant at coexistence...it's all other races that seem to be behind.

Jonny is not as ignorant or racist as these views make him appear, but well, he does have some absolutely insane and painfully misguided ideas on a variety of topics...