Do you think there is a god?

[nightstar]

I really am on the fence on this one...

There is no proof that there is one, but there isnt proof that there isnt either.

anyone agree/disagree?

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't know why people even care whether or not there's a god. Makes no difference to me at all. If the existence of god were proven or disproven as a scientific fact, it would make no difference in my life whatsoever, I'd still be the same person with the same life.

I think if human beings are the best god can create, I am soooooo not impressed.

[maryfairy]

i don't know and decided a long time ago it wasn't worth looking into. i'll know when i die how it all ends up. but i don't believe in the bible because it says to many contradictions and a book isn't proof to me of anything.

[nightstar]

i agree with both of you.

[Mui]

i don't think there is a god

"there is no proof that god doesnt exist" is a common response to people trying to defend themselves for believing what they do... but really does it have any merit?

[FreakyJoeMan]

Wouldn't this thread be more appropriate in, maybe, the Existentialism thread. In any case, no, I do not beleive in a creator.:)

[marquee]

everything is so empty without a god, how can there be no higher being? it just doesnt make sense to me that we all exist here with nothing to put us here or look after us.

[geckopelli]

Define "god", and I'll give you an answer.

[Razorofoccam]

I think if human beings are the best god can create, I am soooooo not impressed.
Dr. Lecter

And either is occam.
And occam thinks this is because we were not created from nothing in a biblical act.
But were created by a system called evolution. [ the best bet so far]
A system that MAY WELL BE a god's way of creating self aware beings.

Who is to say that we will not turn/evolve ourselves through reason.
Into the very type of being described by most as a 'god'

When we are what we wish to undestand.
Then we may understand god

Occam

[StonerBill]

everything is so empty without a god, how can there be no higher being? it just doesnt make sense to me that we all exist here with nothing to put us here or look after us.
you jsut answered the question 'why is there god'.

[DandelionPrincess]

hmm...asking this question in an agnosticism and atheism forum, you'll probably just get "no" or "i don't know" considering i'm agnostic, i would have to say "i dont know" but about three years ago i would have told you of course there is! b/c i was grown up a brainwashed roman catholic, but then i started to actually think about it, and now i get confused b/c i a lot of the ideas of god's existance doesnt make sense to me but some do, and i really cant really KNOW or not, nobody can. some religious ppl will argue you can as long as you have faith, but why have faith? b/c someone told you to? and they just tell you to have faith b/c someone before had told them they should. but these thoughts conflict w/ my roots of being strongly religious when younger (i was an alter server, sang in the church choir, part of the youth group, went to church all the time, etc) but lately i've just kinda come to the conclusin that i'm really not going to know, but do i really need to know? i know right from wrong w/o guidlines to tell me what i should do or else i will be damned for eternity. so, i don't bother with the question anymore, b/c theres really no way to really know, so i basically just enjoy life, instead of wondering if i'll enjoy anything after life on earth is over

[Pablo]

I think the facts that people like to belive it, that it is formulated so it cannot be proved either way, and this whole faith thing, go together to prove for all reasonable purposes that there is no god. Not in the chistian, jewish, or islamic sences anyhow.

[Pablo]

everything is so empty without a god, how can there be no higher being? it just doesnt make sense to me that we all exist here with nothing to put us here or look after us.
sounds like you bleive it cause you want it to be true, not cause its plausible.

[Jedi]

I think the facts that people like to belive it, that it is formulated so it cannot be proved either way, and this whole faith thing, go together to prove for all reasonable purposes that there is no god. Not in the chistian, jewish, or islamic sences anyhow.
You see these faiths have been created by people who were having harsh lives in the desert, or were subject to slavery or were just in so much chaos (iam talking about the west in those days)... so you might not agree with them or may think that their version of this is wrong, but in fact they are not, because when they were being subjected to reign of tyranny, unlawfulness and great difficulties when it comes to survival... on the other side of the world people were enjoying their lives with knowledge, civilization and a rich culture...yet these people still believed there is a God (I am talking about the east in those days)

The fact is , we all have a sense of belonging to something, that belonging is so great because it is real!. There have been many cases were the supreme being himself came about in this world and said, "hey this is me! whats up" , so to think if God is real or not is actually ridiculous.

[Sebbi]

Well we seem to get on fine without one.

[Bloody_Kisses]

sounds like you bleive it cause you want it to be true, not cause its plausible.
thats true....a lot of people do. in my opinion, these radical christians only beleive in god because they are too weak to think for themselves and they would rather be comforted under false pretenses than not to be comforted at all. thats all it is......they want to beleive that someone is looking after them. its interesting because i have pointed this out to someone that i knew and they were trying to brainwash me with all their physcobabble. i swear they are like robots. but none of it ever manages to sway my opinion. from what i have seen, religious people tend to be very hypocritiocal. its just hard for me to take hypocritical people seriously. so i dont think there is a god.

[geckopelli]

thats true....a lot of people do. in my opinion, these radical christians only beleive in god because they are too weak to think for themselves and they would rather be comforted under false pretenses than not to be comforted at all. thats all it is......they want to beleive that someone is looking after them. its interesting because i have pointed this out to someone that i knew and they were trying to brainwash me with all their physcobabble. i swear they are like robots. but none of it ever manages to sway my opinion. from what i have seen, religious people tend to be very hypocritiocal. its just hard for me to take hypocritical people seriously. so i dont think there is a god.
See there jedi?

Words of wisdom from such a young one!

[Bloody_Kisses]

See there jedi?

Words of wisdom from such a young one!
what is that supposed to mean? i dont get it. whos jedi?

[POPthree13]

Bloody - So you don't think there is a God because Christians are hypocritical? I appreciate your ability to see through the misguided modern religions, but that statement is like saying I don't beleive in clouds because I don't like the rain.

Religions have tried very hard to make you beleive that they represent God and hold the keys to understand it. I think it is unwise to abandon the possibility of God based on their ignorance.

[geckopelli]

what is that supposed to mean? i dont get it. whos jedi?
A young man who once accused me of being prejudice against young people.

You just keep right on thinking for yourself, BK.

[Bloody_Kisses]

Bloody - So you don't think there is a God because Christians are hypocritical? I appreciate your ability to see through the misguided modern religions, but that statement is like saying I don't beleive in clouds because I don't like the rain.

Religions have tried very hard to make you beleive that they represent God and hold the keys to understand it. I think it is unwise to abandon the possibility of God based on their ignorance.

they are not the reason i dont beleive in god. the point i was trying to make was that these people are trying to guide me into their religion, yet they dont give me any reason to take it seriously. me and my friends hang out downtown every friday night, and there are about 30 of these christian people from a local church that go around and gang up on people trying to argue with them about religion and totally dismissing anything the other person has to say. every time i bring up a good argument with them they just make up some stupid hypothetical question that has nothing to do with what i just said. every christian that has ever approached me was like that. i think i was mostly talking about people like that. im sorry to have offended anyone, i wasnt saying that everyone was like that.

[POPthree13]

No need to apologize and I appreciate your candor. It is very frustrating, I know. People often beleive what they are handed and very few ever take the initiative to look past the tiny box they were born into (religious and non-religious alike).

You should try being a theist agnostic for a few days! The religious folks attack you AND the non-religious folks attack you.

All I am saying is that I think the hugest crime modern religions are committing today is forcing people to reject the possibility of God because they have defined their faith around precepts which just do not stand up in the modern world. Creationism, arks full of animals, walking on water, etc. etc. They push and push and spread their stories without ever thinking about the fact that God (in whatever form it may exist) has NOTHING to do with all that.

All I am saying is that in all my years of searching I have yet to come up with a good reason why a bunch of particles being effected only by the basic laws of physics and chaos whould create a bunch of ultra-complex thinking apes. Life has been approaching something for three billion years and chalking that up to coincidence is the grandest leap of faith I have heard of.

[geckopelli]

And when you have know preconcieved beliefs at all, you get attacked by believers, non-belivers, and theist agnostic.

[POPthree13]

I do not attack you Gecko and I have always respected your comments on this site. Contrary to your beleif I do not have pre-conceived beleifs. I think you are a wise and valuable addition to these forums... That is why I am simply insulted that you seem to perceive me as an enemy and insult me to further your comments. I just don't understand... I think we seek truth. I think we follow logic. I think we are on the same team. But then you confuse me... even sound like a bible thumper who lost his bible at times. I tend to think derisive comments come from those with closed minds but you manage to mystify me on that one.

[NCF145]

thats true....a lot of people do. in my opinion, these radical christians only beleive in god because they are too weak to think for themselves and they would rather be comforted under false pretenses than not to be comforted at all. thats all it is......they want to beleive that someone is looking after them. its interesting because i have pointed this out to someone that i knew and they were trying to brainwash me with all their physcobabble. i swear they are like robots. but none of it ever manages to sway my opinion. from what i have seen, religious people tend to be very hypocritiocal. its just hard for me to take hypocritical people seriously. so i dont think there is a god.

Let me get this straight. You believe that there isn't a God because religious people (mainly Christians) are hipocritical. The hipocracy of human beings does not dictate the presence of a superior being. In fact, what other people say and/or do should in no way shape what you believe.

[Bloody_Kisses]

Let me get this straight. You believe that there isn't a God because religious people (mainly Christians) are hipocritical. The hipocracy of human beings does not dictate the presence of a superior being. In fact, what other people say and/or do should in no way shape what you believe.
read what i wrote back to popthree13. and you spelled hypocritical wrong.

[Pablo]

To blindly belive anything is unhealthy, and religeon itself is dangerous. It is a virus wich infects our need have a purpose, and that is very dangerous, because that is the power behind love, wanting to have children, the desire to create, and every drastic thing we do. Some relgeons are like the ebola virus, killing members so fast they die off, this would be suicide cults, some spread very well by leaving victems alive and contagious a long time, herpes/cristianity, some spread extreemly quicky because they make the victem chenge in a way that causes them to spead it rabies/morman. Just like viruses apear because the complex genetic system ocationally breaks off a peice, and its only a mater of time till one that spreads itself emerges and becomes a virus, like wise there are many humam minds full of thougts, and its only a matter of time untill a thought emerges that spreads. viruses infect where there is a source of something with an other purpose, like the glands wich are suposed to produce chemicals for the body and instead end up feeding a virus, religeon enters peoples minds and grows off of their need to have a purpose, wich is suposed to drive them to learn and love. And much like a stomach flue makes a person not hungy, a religeon makes a person not feel like somethings missing, but as with the stomach flu, the person who is no longer hungry, is starving

[Razorofoccam]

I do not attack you Gecko and I have always respected your comments on this site. Contrary to your beleif I do not have pre-conceived beleifs. I think you are a wise and valuable addition to these forums... That is why I am simply insulted that you seem to perceive me as an enemy and insult me to further your comments. I just don't understand... I think we seek truth. I think we follow logic. I think we are on the same team. But then you confuse me... even sound like a bible thumper who lost his bible at times. I tend to think derisive comments come from those with closed minds but you manage to mystify me on that one.Please .. Gecko.
Occam has found popthree13 to be a wise and reasonable person.
Open minded.
the statement
"All I am saying is that in all my years of searching I have yet to come up with a good reason why a bunch of particles being effected only by the basic laws of physics and chaos whould create a bunch of ultra-complex thinking apes. Life has been approaching something for three billion years and chalking that up to coincidence is the grandest leap of faith I have heard of."

Is a powerfull understanding. It is one that occam agrees with.

The immense complexity/ballance of reality.
The very laws that govern such...
Are random?
Occam thinks not.
Why is there complexity.? It is not needed for ANYTHING but self aware beings.
One human being is more complex a structure than than a galactic black hole.
And there are 6.3 billion of us.

If reality is random. There should only be simplicity.
Not complexity.
Complexity serves only one purpose.
MIND.

One must stand true to inderteminate states of understanding in a world that screams " you must believe something"

Yes..reason states absolutely. That we dont know enough yet to say
WHAT IS. In relation to direction in this reality..purpose.

This in NO WAY means there is no direction.

The very existence of organisation and systems.
Indicates that that there is a systemic heirarchy.
Such to US. Means we are in the middle. between bacteria and ...?

Occam

[geckopelli]

Popthree13,

I always respected your point of view, but I will simply not tolerate personal attacks. When you said I should be locked up and studied, That's a personal attack.

Attack my ideas and statements all you want- but I must be allowed to do the same.

I am a writer, and I can play the insult game as well as any.

What I can't do is ask questions without people asuming I'm anti-this or that. And I can't participate in "Faith" of any kind. Nor can I accept unsubstantiated ideas being presented as fact.

I niethier believe nor disbelieve in god; I don't even know what that means. And I'm not alone.

No one else here can describe thier god. Any attempts to do so must be taken as Truth on Faith or the explainer has a fit. God forbid I ask a question.

The sad part is, I'm the only one looking for this alledged god. Everyone else seems secure in some inspired knowledge or content not to know.

So I part with this:

I may not know what or if some god is, but I can give you a reasonable explanation of where god could be and that explantion includes the principle of omnipotence.

[POPthree13]

Fair enough Gecko and thanx Occam...

I sincerely didn't mean to insult you with that statement although I did intent to use a bit of hyperbole to project my point. I din't mean you should be locked up like an animal, instead that if you have realistic information backing up what was being said on that thread it would be of utmost interest to some of the top physicists and particle scientists on earth. Like... 'if they concede that physical reality is unpredictable, your predicitons might herald a new age of science!' Yes, I was being sarcastic, but I did not intend to deface you in any way.

Nonetheless I apologize. I hope our conversations can remain as constructive as possible! ~Peace.

[POPthree13]

"The sad part is, I'm the only one looking for this alledged god. Everyone else seems secure in some inspired knowledge or content not to know."

I agree entirely.

"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you."
- Pop proverb.

"Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened."
- Ancient Christian text.

[Razorofoccam]

The sad part is, I'm the only one looking for this alledged god. Everyone else seems secure in some inspired knowledge or content not to know.
Gecko

The only one....plus X [occam is part of variable X]


Occam

[liveonce13]

1. Why are we here?
2. How should I act?
3. What kind of person should I be?

Science can't answer these questions, so ppl who are afraid to answer these on their own use god to answer them. There is no god, it's just a bunch of ppl who think they need to be controlled, and told who to be. I don't believe in a higher power, because I don't need any list of rules because I go by the way I feel, and not by wheather or not i'm "sinning". I also think it's funny the way ppl go about their entire lives by the bible, and then when it ends, they are broken down into soil.....and then their life as a human was dedicated to nothing. Be yourself and do what YOU think is right. YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE!

[Razorofoccam]

1. Why are we here?
2. How should I act?
3. What kind of person should I be?

Science can't answer these questions, so ppl who are afraid to answer these on their own use god to answer them. There is no god, it's just a bunch of ppl who think they need to be controlled, and told who to be. I don't believe in a higher power, because I don't need any list of rules because I go by the way I feel, and not by wheather or not i'm "sinning". I also think it's funny the way ppl go about their entire lives by the bible, and then when it ends, they are broken down into soil.....and then their life as a human was dedicated to nothing. Be yourself and do what YOU think is right. YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE!
liveonce13

Incorrect.
Science does not say there is no god.
Science says it does not know.
Reason says it does not know.
Athiesm is just like theism [belief in a god]
Both. believe that which reason/science can not determine.
Agnosticism is the voice of reason.
It does not know.
There is nothing wrong with not knowing.
Though religion would tell you otherwise.
[ego]

Occam

[gdkumar]

"liveonce13

Incorrect.
Science does not say there is no god.
Science says it does not know.
Reason says it does not know.
Athiesm is just like theism [belief in a god]
Both. believe that which reason/science can not determine.
Agnosticism is the voice of reason.
It does not know.
There is nothing wrong with not knowing.
Though religion would tell you otherwise.
[ego]

Occam"
Dear Occam,

Thank you dear friend for the wonderful and much-necessary-post.
Your sharp razor did it again, it did not discriminate and performed a perfect surgery.

I was feeling sick but then your post healed me thoroughly.I love you.
I adore you. Please keep up your good job of not critcizing but showing the right and wrong.

Thanks again.

With lots of love...........Kumar.

[Iconoclast]

I've experienced no reason to believe in a god so I assume there is not one.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I've experienced no reason to believe in a god so I assume there is not one.
But then again...have you assumed a reason not to? Sometimes we need to follow our hearts instead of our reason...for I believe there will be a time when reason will fail us...and those who depend on only reason will be quite lost indeed...

[POPthree13]

Iconoclast... Valid argument I guess. I certainly can't refute it. If there is a God though I don't think it would be that obvious. If it exists, it might effect/be effected by everything. Your experience has been explained to you and you have accepted that explaination. I know how we all evolved to this point but what I can't get my head around is why.

[Iconoclast]

But then again...have you assumed a reason not to?I believe that I have already stated that I assume the negative.
Sometimes we need to follow our hearts instead of our reason...for I believe there will be a time when reason will fail us...and those who depend on only reason will be quite lost indeed...I honestly have no idea what this statement means.

[Iconoclast]

If there is a God though I don't think it would be that obvious.Why?
If it exists, it might effect/be effected by everything.Or it might not. I have no information so I assume the negative.

Your experience has been explained to you and you have accepted that explaination.I have no idea what is meant by this.

I know how we all evolved to this point but what I can't get my head around is why.I am unsure how we have evolved to this point. Any why question without knowledge of an intender is answerable so I find it unproductive and, therefore, useless.

[Pablo]

"liveonce13

Incorrect.
Science does not say there is no god.
Science says it does not know.
Reason says it does not know.
Athiesm is just like theism [belief in a god]
Both. believe that which reason/science can not determine.
Agnosticism is the voice of reason.
It does not know.
There is nothing wrong with not knowing.
Though religion would tell you otherwise.
[ego]

Occam"
Dear Occam,

Thank you dear friend for the wonderful and much-necessary-post.
Your sharp razor did it again, it did not discriminate and performed a perfect surgery.

I was feeling sick but then your post healed me thoroughly.I love you.
I adore you. Please keep up your good job of not critcizing but showing the right and wrong.

Thanks again.

With lots of love...........Kumar.
I agree with you, we have to accept that we just dont know some things, but i would add that i think it is pointless to focus on the idea of god so much as a thing you wonder about, it is an idea with as little reason to focus on as any other idea one could create. And if it is to be contemplated i think the word "god" should be ignored, because it has so much attached to it that it is a limitation to use it, a poluted word. If one wishes to open their mind it seems like an odd place to star at the ideas others had to deal with their daily lives that have been altered and interpreted, it seems more logical to start from where one is, in their life, and try to make no asumptions. Belifes are a pointless and dangerous thing, and asumptions are blinding.

[POPthree13]

Why?
It might not be that obvious because it might permiate all of existence. I am not religious, but logically speaking if all of life is based on some other force how could you separate life and this force?

Or it might not. I have no information so I assume the negative.
True it might not. But order does not generally erupt unprovoked from chaos. I am pretty adept and physics and I have found no reason why the universe would produce complex, thinking animals without some Other, not-yet-understood force.

I have no idea what is meant by this.
What I meant by that is that our existence on this planet is chock-full of unknowns, mysteries and questions in my opinion. There is another basic school of thought... This is what it is, science can tell us how chemical reactions work so life is explained and the 'real' world is exactly what we se and nothing more. To beleive there is nothing more in the universe you must assume that humans have got it all figured out. I don't buy that, but some people do.

I am unsure how we have evolved to this point. Any why question without knowledge of an intender is answerable so I find it unproductive and, therefore, useless.I find the more I question about the universe and the more I ask myself why the more beauty I find int he systems around me. Sure 'why?' is unaswerable but every question has at some point been unaswerable. Scientists do not persue questions with answers. In fact often the most unaswerable questions are a good starting point, especially when the answers you seek are bigger than all that is known.

[POPthree13]

Pablo.. I agree that God is a poor word to use exactly because it has so much meaning attached to it. When I say the word I am pretty confident that few share the meaning i intend. So as a word it fails me.

Beleif and assumption can be dangerous, but you have to remember that that is ALL we have to work with. All of our science, for all its acheivements, is still based on beleif and assumption. Read some of Hawkin's work. He is probably the most brilliant scientist alive, yet he rightly asserts that just because something was one way yesterday does not mean it will be tomorrow.

Our entire collective intelligence is based an a scant few thousand years of development and although we ASSUME we know much, how do we really know what we know? We only awoke into consciousness yesterday (in historical terms) and as an infant, all we take for granted is assumption.

[Pablo]

we'll the diference, is that science alows itself to change, it is based on the best truth it can come up with, a structured aproach to gaining knowledge. That is why i think it is better than belife systems that tell you that you must belive something or else. Ones like budhism when practiced to encourage learning and exploring, are good in my opinion. Its just when people want to belive something for a reason other than its likelyhood that it becomes foolish. like a bumpersitcker i saw that said "the bif bang theory: god spoke and bang it happened" what is the point of saying this other than to reasure ones self of their calming simple veiw on the matter?

[Purple Haze]

Ever since I was small I've been tought into believing in the existence of God, the bible, Jesus, the whole package....but now that I'm older and I've developed my own sense of beleif in things I kinda put aside everything I've been brought up into believing and created my own criteria on religious beliefs...I do believe that there is something out there...I'm not sure what it is....Like a God or something..But I don't beleive in the whole creation of Adam and Eve and the Bible and all of that....It just doesn't make sense to me....I don't know...The whole issue with the Devil and God and the do's and don'ts of the bible, it kinda sounds made up to me...I mean there isn't really any proof that Jesus did exist, we only know he did because of the supposenly divine writings of the bible and the witnessess....The bible to me is a book made up by religious creators of their criteria of what's wrong and right and how they think man kind should live...If you stop to think you'll notice that every religion no matter how similiar they are they all have a chapter or two of the bible either changed or removed and they all claim that their bible is sacred and original..Like the catholic church for example, they have added like five chapters already and modified the bible to their convinience..I think if something is supposenly as authentique and blessed as the bible then there shouldn't be so many versions of it...And talking about the bible if it is so sacred to them and all why do they disrespect it and not follow it properly....I mean for example, the beliefs of saints and symbols of some religions...In the bible if I recall states that there shouldn't be any beliefs of such kind and that's the first thing they do, especially the catholic church....Also I have noticed that some religions post out rules created by them of how one should dress, believe and how by following all of this you'll be saved..blah..blah..blah..and how you'll be judged by the eyes of god and so on if you don't follow their rules and disrespect the readings of the church and so on.....I think that If there is a god he shouldn't judge you at all, cause supposenly judging is a sin and if he created us he created us with the purpose of being free, not chained and withdrawed from exposing our true emotions and selves, if not what is the purpose of him creating us...To control us...that just doesn't sound right to me.....We are suppose to be free, to be responsible and the own judgers of our actions...To be our true selves and be happy...to enjoy our lives not to be miserable just for the act of being saved...If so then why live...why be born.....Cause trust me no religious follower is truly happy....no one who is under control of their true emotions, feelings and selves could be truly happy..and I don't think god would want that...I don't think that he would like the fact of us being miserable so he could supposenly save us...to me that just doesn't sound right...The whole idea of the saving issue doesn't sound right period....I think that we live and then die and that's the end of our existence, may be our spirits will float around a bit or something...may reencarnate or something like that, but nothing like the bible states of heaven and hell and all that...I just believe that there is something out there that did create us..but created us to be free, to be ourselves....free from judgement of right and wrong......and thinking about it i don't believe that there is anything such as right and wrong, if you stop to think about it it's all relative...cause what could be right to you is probably wrong to another person...similar to religion and the existence of god and all...And about science I kinda believe on the whole issue of evolution and all even though it confuses me a bit, but it certainly makes more sense to me then the whole religious issue....It all depends on your standards really....on how you view life and it's un explained ways..

[nephthys]

A linguist can easily proove or disproove the existence of God...

[Razorofoccam]

Dear Occam,

Thank you dear friend for the wonderful and much-necessary-post.
Your sharp razor did it again, it did not discriminate and performed a perfect surgery.

I was feeling sick but then your post healed me thoroughly.I love you.
I adore you. Please keep up your good job of not critcizing but showing the right and wrong.

Thanks again.

With lots of love...........Kumar.

gdkumar

Wellmet my friend.

You will hear truth.
Occam does not remember saying this. Much is happing here with deep emotion.
Distraction results in poor memory retention if one is to believe the 'psuedo
science' of mind.

He has re-read his post 3 times. It seems sound. It is even eloquent.
But occam is no poet.
Much recently, comes from a place of childish wonder. Human concerns seem
so petty.

I hope you now feel better

Today, a black and yellow flutterby [the new oxford definition of butterfly]
Landed on a fence next to occam as he watched the wonderfull sea roil in it's majesty.
This one. Stuck his eye to within a cm of the insect. It did nothing.
Not the slightest mistep in the rithmic idle beat of its wings.
It looked back.

Then flew away.

Occam

[Razorofoccam]

And if it is to be contemplated i think the word "god" should be ignored, because it has so much attached to it that it is a limitation to use it, a poluted word.
pablo

Exactly why occam calls it 'direction' [in reality]
not god.

GOD
Is a word of religion
Religion can not even decide which god is real
religion is a mass off eyescratching idealists and opportunists.

If religion cannot make up it's mind who's god is real
Reason might step in and make the choice for them.
Occam does not wish to see this.
Such is worst off all worlds
Remember auschwitz


Occam

[nephthys]

"True it might not. But order does not generally erupt unprovoked from chaos. I am pretty adept and physics and I have found no reason why the universe would produce complex, thinking animals without some Other, not-yet-understood force."

Heisenberg. What order?

[Razorofoccam]

Purple Haze

quote you
"I mean there isn't really any proof that Jesus did exist"

There is much verification.
as much as tiberius


Occam

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

pablo

Exactly why occam calls it 'direction' [in reality]
not god.

GOD
Is a word of religion
Religion can not even decide which god is real
religion is a mass off eyescratching idealists and opportunists.

If religion cannot make up it's mind who's god is real
Reason might step in and make the choice for them.
Occam does not wish to see this.
Such is worst off all worlds
Remember auschwitz


Occam
I have always been very interested in Religion...and if you seriously read into the main points you can see that there is one God (supreme being) and that all the stories are pretty much the same...the reason that they are different religions is do mostly to regionalism and cultural differences...last night I read a chapter from a book of Vedic liturature about Sri Krsna and then I read the first 7 chapters of Mathew in the Bible and though the names of the people are different and some of the situations...the messages are almost exactly the same...so when it comes down to who's God is real...there's only one...its just a matter of where you're from that tells what you call him or not....

I'm not saying that you have to believe me...this is just a conclusion that I have come to after 2 months of being exposed to Vedic liturature, a life time of Christian liturature, and a life time of studying other cultures...

[Pablo]

I have always been very interested in Religion...and if you seriously read into the main points you can see that there is one God (supreme being) and that all the stories are pretty much the same...the reason that they are different religions is do mostly to regionalism and cultural differences...last night I read a chapter from a book of Vedic liturature about Sri Krsna and then I read the first 7 chapters of Mathew in the Bible and though the names of the people are different and some of the situations...the messages are almost exactly the same...so when it comes down to who's God is real...there's only one...its just a matter of where you're from that tells what you call him or not....

I'm not saying that you have to believe me...this is just a conclusion that I have come to after 2 months of being exposed to Vedic liturature, a life time of Christian liturature, and a life time of studying other cultures...
but where has this gotten you really, it proves that most religeons belive there is one god. And beyond that no one can come up with much of an idea let alone evidence of that idea, of what god is. So why bother, why not just absorb the thing you can trust most, your own sences, true even they may lie to you, but theyre the best you have

[nephthys]

"last night I read a chapter from a book of Vedic liturature about Sri Krsna"

Krshna is not even in the Vedas...

The "Hindu" one god (best expounded in the Upanishads) and the Christian are completely different. The Christian god decided to create the universe whereas The Eternal Absolute from the Upanishads did not "create" the universe, but the universe is the manifestation of it. The universe is essentially a "chunk" of god.

[Kharakov]

"last night I read a chapter from a book of Vedic liturature about Sri Krsna"

Krshna is not even in the Vedas...

The "Hindu" one god (best expounded in the Upanishads) and the Christian are completely different. The Christian god decided to create the universe whereas The Eternal Absolute from the Upanishads did not "create" the universe, but the universe is the manifestation of it. The universe is essentially a "chunk" of god.I know you are, but what am i? Chunk that is. I wanna see god do the truffle shuffle.

Seriously, the decision to create is part of the experience of time- The christian god is eternal and timeless and arising out of itself as it is itself- just like the eternal absolute which is but a chunk of self. Decision is part of the eternal absolute.

Strange, as usuall coincidences happen to me from God- Listening to everlast sing about knowing what its like to have to choose. I do.

[Razorofoccam]

I have always been very interested in Religion...and if you seriously read into the main points you can see that there is one God (supreme being) and that all the stories are pretty much the same...the reason that they are different religions is do mostly to regionalism and cultural differences...last night I read a chapter from a book of Vedic liturature about Sri Krsna and then I read the first 7 chapters of Mathew in the Bible and though the names of the people are different and some of the situations...the messages are almost exactly the same...so when it comes down to who's God is real...there's only one...its just a matter of where you're from that tells what you call him or not....

I'm not saying that you have to believe me...this is just a conclusion that I have come to after 2 months of being exposed to Vedic liturature, a life time of Christian liturature, and a life time of studying other cultures...
SvgGrdnBeauty

Agreed. The god of 'the world monotheism' [judaeism,christianity, islam]
Is accepted by the theologians of those religions as the same god.
[though MANY of their flock might contest this]
But there are MANY religions who define their gods as different to the monotheism.
Just as Odin is different to christ the saviour/god on earth.

You propose that geoposition/culture defines the character of THE god
which is actually one god.
And in a very broard sense this may be so.
All are expressions of a desire.

And that desire is the key.
Religion 'invents gods'
It invents a god to fulfill the desire to understand reality and the MOL
And then HUMANS say what that god says is the meaning of life.
They make it up...
Example: Occam considers most of the bible and koran to be fiction.

Reason. Says there is indicative evidence for direction in reality.
That 'god' as religion might call it.
Is supported by evidence. But NOT conclusive evidence.
Science, ironically, is now the human race's most accepted method to finding
a 'god'
And many religious people accept this.
For science/reason is not about debunking others.
It does not kill those who do not agree.
It s about being accurate to what IS.

Those of religion that say 'they know'
Know very little.
Occam has met thousands of them.

75% did not understand the words.
'Subjective, objective, theology or even, theory'

Occam

[Razorofoccam]

I know you are, but what am i? Chunk that is. I wanna see god do the truffle shuffle.

Seriously, the decision to create is part of the experience of time- The christian god is eternal and timeless and arising out of itself as it is itself- just like the eternal absolute which is but a chunk of self. Decision is part of the eternal absolute.

Strange, as usuall coincidences happen to me from God- Listening to everlast sing about knowing what its like to have to choose. I do.
Kharakov

"The christian god is eternal and timeless and arising out of itself as it is itself-"

Eternal? Timeless?
What, can arise out of itself..
If god is eternal it does not need to 'arise out of itself'
[a logical contradiction]

"just like the eternal absolute which is but a chunk of self. Decision is part of the eternal absolute."

Eternal absolute? what is that?

The only eternal absolute that occam knows of is POSSIBLY.
Duration.

All you say sounds like the stories religion makes up to validate itself in a world of logic/reason.
That world came after religion had a death grip on everyone due to the fact that just about everyone was illiterate and ignorant.

Occam is neither. [ to a degree]
Define an 'eternal absolute.' that is a structure/ system that has always existed..
Who defined the structure/system that allows a god to exist?
God?
If so , how did god make a system to allow itself to exist before it existed.
And be ETERANAL at the same time..

contradiction....
religion falls down HARD,, due to it;s inherent contradiction.

Religion says. 'we cannot understand god'
true
But we will.
And in so doing
REMOVE these silly contradictions.

A fool will say the stars are beyond our reach.
A wise man will never stop trying to reach them.
For nowhere does it say we cannot.

Occam

[Kharakov]

Kharakov

"The christian god is eternal and timeless and arising out of itself as it is itself-"

Eternal? Timeless?
What, can arise out of itself..
If god is eternal it does not need to 'arise out of itself'
[a logical contradiction]Yeah bro. You are right there. But you are wrong as well. I'd be damned if I couldn't except an eternal contradiction.


"just like the eternal absolute which is but a chunk of self. Decision is part of the eternal absolute."

Eternal absolute? what is that?High quality H2O brother. High quality H2O.

All you say sounds like the stories religion makes up to validate itself in a world of logic/reason.
That world came after religion had a death grip on everyone due to the fact that just about everyone was illiterate and ignorant.Are you saying that i am addressing religious principles to one who cannot live with logical contradiction? Mayhaps you do not enough to judge facts and I do. I pity the fool who don't drink no mimosas.

Define an 'eternal absolute.' that is a structure/ system that has always existed..
Who defined the structure/system that allows a god to exist?
God?
If so , how did god make a system to allow itself to exist before it existed.
And be ETERANAL at the same time..Whelp, consider this: maybe God does not have to address the question of where God came from- as you don't either. Ask a stupid question and you will get a non logical answer. Hey, duhhh, <droll drips from corner of mouth> God, where you come from? I came from me.


contradiction....
religion falls down HARD,, due to it;s inherent contradiction.Fuck religion then. Just look for God. Don't be an idiot- God is out there, I don't go to church, I listen to Deicide (awesome death metal band), hang out with God every day. God does cool shit for me, plays little pranks on me, etc. BAsically the most entertaining entity in the universe, if you ask me.

Religion says. 'we cannot understand god'
true
But we will.
And in so doing
REMOVE these silly contradictions.Nah, God makes fools for those who know God to laugh at.... lol... not that it is a bad thing that you are a fool- i rather enjoy your company. The funniest thing about a fool is recognizing that you went through those same thoughts at an earlier time in life.

A fool will say the stars are beyond our reach.
A wise man will never stop trying to reach them.
For nowhere does it say we cannot.
The rich became the beggar, and the fool became the wise. A fool is always convinced of his wisdom.... I'll leave that one for you to disect bro.

[gdkumar]

"Today, a black and yellow flutterby [the new oxford definition of butterfly]
Landed on a fence next to occam as he watched the wonderfull sea roil in it's majesty.
This one. Stuck his eye to within a cm of the insect. It did nothing.
Not the slightest mistep in the rithmic idle beat of its wings.
It looked back.

Then flew away.

Occam"


Dear Occam,my friend ;

Who says you are not a poet ? That is so nice to read ! Thank you.

I knew the meaning of flutter but not flutterby. If you had not mentioned about the Oxford definition then my quest for the word and its meaning would have started. I would have had to run for the authority who knew about it(Oxford new dictionary). Asking people who did not know about flutterby would not have been of much help, rather they would have confused me more.

There is this word, 'God' and seemingly we are all blind and ignorant about it.
As we try to know about it by the dint of our own merit and understanding, naturally, we tend to confuse ourselves more and more. It appears that since the quest is still on we should look for the authority in the subject who can really tell us what is what.

We have not known or learnt about the people who are known to have attained realization. We have not been to such people who are still living. We have not bothered to find them out to know the truth.

I also do not know about God because I have not seen Him. But I have felt His presence through inexplicable incidents which we term as miracles. I have not seen Him but felt Him through his manifestations....like I have never seen electricity but felt it through nasty shocks and its manifestations (Lamps,bells,this computer and endless things.)

I like the way you talk about 'direction'. I remember, in another beautiful post you gave us another wonderful literary piece of work with the line
"compacting by contracting into 'totality' "

Well, I accept this 'direction' and 'totality' as God........ Do you ?

With lots of love..........Kumar.

[Vae Victus]

Give an example of a contradiction that doesn't have to do with religion.

[Razorofoccam]

Fuck religion then. Just look for God. Don't be an idiot- God is out there, I don't go to church, I listen to Deicide (awesome death metal band),
Kharakov

Amazing..Occam is compiling a tape to play in the car..while he writes this.
He was taping Fade to Black [metallica] while he read your post..
From his favourite album . ride the lightning.

Occam used to play a gibson V through a double quad stack topped with an un- preamped marshall. [and covered 'for whom the bell tolls' and 'creeping death' both from that album.. also a slayer track a few times]

Does this re-orient your perception of occam?


Nah, God makes fools for those who know God to laugh at.... lol... not that it is a bad thing that you are a fool- i rather enjoy your company.
Thank you.

Occam

[Razorofoccam]

Well, I accept this 'direction' and 'totality' as God........ Do you ?

With lots of love..........Kumar.
Kumar

Occam is an agnostic.
His method to understanding does not allow him to call a thing
a fact. Without conclusive evidence.
There is much indicative evidence for direction.
But not conclusive.

And if the evidence never becomes conclusive in this life.
So be it.

Occam dos not desire to believe in a god.
He already believes in humanity.
And that is enough.

Occam

[gdkumar]

"Occam is an agnostic.
His method to understanding does not allow him to call a thing
a fact. Without conclusive evidence.
There is much indicative evidence for direction.
But not conclusive.

And if the evidence never becomes conclusive in this life.
So be it.

Occam dos not desire to believe in a god.
He already believes in humanity.
And that is enough.

Occam"


Dear Occam,

Thank you for your conclusive post.

You believe in humanity and yes, that is enough. But Occam can not be agnostic. I do not believe.

This God word is making all the problems. More so when religions come first in between. However, I shall wait for evidence to become conclusive for you in this life time only. And yes, it is going to happen.
I shall wait for that day and hear it from your mouth.
With lots of love........Kumar.

[Kharakov]

Kharakov

Amazing..Occam is compiling a tape to play in the car..while he writes this.
He was taping Fade to Black [metallica] while he read your post..
From his favourite album . ride the lightning.

Occam used to play a gibson V through a double quad stack topped with an un- preamped marshall. [and covered 'for whom the bell tolls' and 'creeping death' both from that album.. also a slayer track a few times]

Does this re-orient your perception of occam?


Thank you.

Occam
Well, you have proven your awesomeness to me.... and to all those who have found that hell awaits.

[gdkumar]

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

We should be able to know and feel God by our day-to-day life experiences, from others' experiences and from nature(There can not be a better teacher / Guru).

We should know by ourselves that there is something beyond our natural understanding, something inexplicable, some super natural power. And we are simply helpless in front of that.

To understand and judge things/happenings by reasoning, the way Occam does, is a very good way to believing someday that yes, there is something which everything fails to explain.
Hope, it happens to all of us.

With love.........Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

We should be able to know and feel God by our day-to-day life experiences, from others' experiences and from nature(There can not be a better teacher / Guru).

We should know by ourselves that there is something beyond our natural understanding, something inexplicable, some super natural power. And we are simply helpless in front of that.

To understand and judge things/happenings by reasoning, the way Occam does, is a very good way to believing someday that yes, there is something which everything fails to explain.
Hope, it happens to all of us.

With love.........Kumar.
Yes, I do agree with what you are saying...as usual your words are beautiful. Indeed it is a bit inexplainable...perhaps that is why I am so easy to say that maybe...in a way...everyone, every culture, is right. I believe that there is something beyond what we know and concieve and perhaps that is why it is in our nature to question it...through reason and others we can see our own conclusions, I had stated before what mine were at the present, but no...we indeed can't go around believing that we are absolutely right, no questions asked...we can just share what we think...but in the end thinking is not enough...I don't think reason is enough...yes...it is as you said that we should feel God...forget everything that goes with it and just give in...

Wow...I don't know if that made any sence...if it didn't ignore me and carry on

[Razorofoccam]

Well, you have proven your awesomeness to me.... and to all those who have found that hell awaits.
Kharkov [can occam call you that?..The city name is easier to remember
and so historically significant.]

Awesomeness?
Occam pointed out that maybe we have much in common.
Millions play guitars in bands... And listen to the same music.

And occam asks...what is 'hell'
For he is fierce in rejection of the concept...
It is absurd.

Occam

[Razorofoccam]

But Occam can not be agnostic. I do not believe.

This God word is making all the problems. More so when religions come first in between. However, I shall wait for evidence to become conclusive for you in this life time only. And yes, it is going to happen.
I shall wait for that day and hear it from your mouth.
With lots of love........Kumar.
Kumar.

My friend.

Wether you hear it from occams mouth will be a result of reality.....
Events in reality.[phenomena]
And the method that occam uses to interpret such.

If phenomena occur that occam interprets as conclusive evidence
for the existence of a god..

Then so be it.

Occam

[veinglory]

The idea that we all 'should' feel God around us in the world is obviously insufficient. I see a complex wonderful world, not all of which I understand. I am in awe of the world -- but I am an atheist. Why does the wonderfulness of the world imply the existence of a deity? Many very intelligent and spiritual people do not make this connection so it is obviously not a 'given' it is one subjective interpretation.

[Kharakov]

Kharkov [can occam call you that?..The city name is easier to remember
and so historically significant.]If i need to give you permission... :p

Awesomeness?
Occam pointed out that maybe we have much in common.
Millions play guitars in bands... And listen to the same music. Good to know of millions of minions.


And occam asks...what is 'hell'
For he is fierce in rejection of the concept...
It is absurd.
Hell is a little s&m for all the sick fux out there. I am not one to say i did not need hell at one point, or at least the threat of eternal hell to motivate me out of my mundane understanding of things into a higher understanding.

Kharkov

[Kharakov]

The idea that we all 'should' feel God around us in the world is obviously insufficient. I see a complex wonderful world, not all of which I understand. I am in awe of the world -- but I am an atheist. Why does the wonderfulness of the world imply the existence of a deity? Many very intelligent and spiritual people do not make this connection so it is obviously not a 'given' it is one subjective interpretation.
Some people have natural musical talent. Some people have mathematical talent. Some people have sight. Some people don't.

[Vae Victus]

Some people have natural musical talent. Some people have mathematical talent. Some people have sight. Some people don't.
If you're claiming that atheists have a natural talent to see the truth, I think that's prejudicial. Isn't it fun being vague? And so easy...!

[Kharakov]

If you're claiming that atheists have a natural talent to see the truth, I think that's prejudicial. Isn't it fun being vague? And so easy...!I love it. I gotta take a shower cuz my hole is itchy... Specificity is just as hot as vagueness.... Even when I lie I tell the truth.

Your quote from voltaire is awesome. I love Satan like I love God.... in a very dirty slutty way.

[Razorofoccam]

Quote:
Originally Posted by veinglory
The idea that we all 'should' feel God around us in the world is obviously insufficient. I see a complex wonderful world, not all of which I understand. I am in awe of the world -- but I am an atheist. Why does the wonderfulness of the world imply the existence of a deity? Many very intelligent and spiritual people do not make this connection so it is obviously not a 'given' it is one subjective interpretation.

And replyed to by Midnight......
"You cannot make such a statement, that was my connection for 10 years! But lately, things just haven't been the same. There's deffinately something going on, Hell, I am a scientist, I will exhaust all other possibilities, before claiming something to be an unexplainable phenomenon, but it did take this occurance to make me think things over once again!"

Midnight

Occam must agree.
The complexity and ballance of reality..Is, to put it mildly...
AWSOME

A single weed in your garden is a structure of such information complexity
As to require all our resources as a race to understand it.

Such 'direction'..such tendency towards complexity.
Is what occam calls indicative evidence for a 'god'
To use the vulgar term...:)

And the ulimate in complexity. Beings that can understand reality.
Seems to be the point...

Are we such? Only mildly

Occam

[Pablo]

obviously we are complex and so is the world around us because we must be complex to function as we do, thus our scale is one that things we notice are also very complex. The universe is very big. It seems to me the nature of things to form into patterns, and of cource they do, no matter what the properties of a thing was if there were a billion of it it would form a pattern, now what would prove that some driven intention placed everything here would be if it was not in a naturally ocuring pattern, just stuck that way, like a sculpture made by a person. It is a big jump to a big conclution to say that since you don't understand how everything got here that an omnipotent, self concious, benevolent, partialy human-like, being put it all here. Thats just what would be the first explaination to pop into a humans mind if asked how stuff got how it is. I just don't see a reason to lock in an idea of why things are how they are, and than try to change how you see things to fit it, why not change your concept of how the world works by what you see, that seems like a better way to learn to me. I belive that many religeoons have been infected over time with atempts to make them into tools to control people, and now they carry many poisonous implications, many, in their modern common interpritations encourage, over population, wasting of resources and other activities that count on this world being temporary.

[POPthree13]

It is a big jump to a big conclution to say that since you don't understand how everything got here that an omnipotent, self concious, benevolent, partialy human-like, being put it all here. You don't have to beleive that such a being exists to beleive in a force at work here besides 'random collection.' There are many of us that beleive (based on a scientific analysis of chaos vs. direction and randmoness vs. structure) that something Other is at work here without any pre-conceived notion of a omnipotent, benevolent or otherwise even definable mack-daddy-god figure. There is a middle road.

I just don't see a reason to lock in an idea of why things are how they are, and than try to change how you see things to fit it, why not change your concept of how the world works by what you see, that seems like a better way to learn to me. We see very little of what exists. I am not 'locked into' anything - always ready for re-interpretation. There are many things which can not be explained by what we 'know'. And always what we know will be very limited. Occasionaly you must step back and see the bigger picture and draw conlusions based on probability.

I belive that many religeoons have been infected over time with atempts to make them into tools to control people, and now they carry many poisonous implications, many, in their modern common interpritations encourage, over population, wasting of resources and other activities that count on this world being temporary.I couldn't agree more.

[gdkumar]

From SvgGrdnBeauty :

"Yes, I do agree with what you are saying...as usual your words are beautiful. Indeed it is a bit inexplainable...perhaps that is why I am so easy to say that maybe...in a way...everyone, every culture, is right. I believe that there is something beyond what we know and concieve and perhaps that is why it is in our nature to question it...through reason and others we can see our own conclusions, I had stated before what mine were at the present, but no...we indeed can't go around believing that we are absolutely right, no questions asked...we can just share what we think...but in the end thinking is not enough...I don't think reason is enough...yes...it is as you said that we should feel God...forget everything that goes with it and just give in...

Wow...I don't know if that made any sence...if it didn't ignore me and carry on"

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

Wish everybody could think so simply and beautifully. I assure you, this only makes sense. Thank you.

We are mainly three types of people. Let me tell you a very short story.

There were three extremely poor families. One day it so happened that the heads of the families tried their best but could not earn anything to feed the wives and small children.

It was a very hot and sultry day, the three men were very upset in their respective homes and were nearly in tears because the small children were hungry and crying, the wives were restless and cursing their fates. The husbands did not know what to do.

Then in front of every house, in turn, a cart with loads of food arrived and the boy with the stuff just said one gentleman had purchased all the stuff from their shop and had advised them to deliver at those addressses.

Now the first man simply told his wife to quickly take everything inside and not to bother much about who had sent it. He also said that may be there is a mistake in the address, so before anybody comes and claims it back let us quickly eat everything.

The second man told his wife with little annoyance, " I do not know why somebody should do this. I can very well earn. Anyway, just take them inside and let us eat". Then he turned back to the cart-boy and told him, "If you meet that gentleman please convey our thanks and tell him that I shall pay for everything. Also tell him that we do not need his favour and help."

The third man and his wife could not say anything, tears were rolling down their cheeks, they started crying uncontrollably. The man managed to say,"Who is this gentleman who came to know about our plight and is so kind to send this to feed my children and save them." They thanked the gentleman and with folded hands they prayed for him. The man told his wife,"You take the stuff inside and eat with the children. I am coming." His wife was worried and asked him, "You are also very hungry, where are you going? Come and eat with us." The man told her, " How can I eat without finding that gentleman who knows about us,who is so kind and compassionate ? Let me go and at least try to find him and convey my gratitude and thanks."

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty, nearly all of us fall in the above three categories(Tamo,Rajo and Sattva).

With lots of love......Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

From SvgGrdnBeauty :

"Yes, I do agree with what you are saying...as usual your words are beautiful. Indeed it is a bit inexplainable...perhaps that is why I am so easy to say that maybe...in a way...everyone, every culture, is right. I believe that there is something beyond what we know and concieve and perhaps that is why it is in our nature to question it...through reason and others we can see our own conclusions, I had stated before what mine were at the present, but no...we indeed can't go around believing that we are absolutely right, no questions asked...we can just share what we think...but in the end thinking is not enough...I don't think reason is enough...yes...it is as you said that we should feel God...forget everything that goes with it and just give in...

Wow...I don't know if that made any sence...if it didn't ignore me and carry on"

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

Wish everybody could think so simply and beautifully. I assure you, this only makes sense. Thank you.

We are mainly three types of people. Let me tell you a very short story.

There were three extremely poor families. One day it so happened that the heads of the families tried their best but could not earn anything to feed the wives and small children.

It was a very hot and sultry day, the three men were very upset in their respective homes and were nearly in tears because the small children were hungry and crying, the wives were restless and cursing their fates. The husbands did not know what to do.

Then in front of every house, in turn, a cart with loads of food arrived and the boy with the stuff just said one gentleman had purchased all the stuff from their shop and had advised them to deliver at those addressses.

Now the first man simply told his wife to quickly take everything inside and not to bother much about who had sent it. He also said that may be there is a mistake in the address, so before anybody comes and claims it back let us quickly eat everything.

The second man told his wife with little annoyance, " I do not know why somebody should do this. I can very well earn. Anyway, just take them inside and let us eat". Then he turned back to the cart-boy and told him, "If you meet that gentleman please convey our thanks and tell him that I shall pay for everything. Also tell him that we do not need his favour and help."

The third man and his wife could not say anything, tears were rolling down their cheeks, they started crying uncontrollably. The man managed to say,"Who is this gentleman who came to know about our plight and is so kind to send this to feed my children and save them." They thanked the gentleman and with folded hands they prayed for him. The man told his wife,"You take the stuff inside and eat with the children. I am coming." His wife was worried and asked him, "You are also very hungry, where are you going? Come and eat with us." The man told her, " How can I eat without finding that gentleman who knows about us,who is so kind and compassionate ? Let me go and at least try to find him and convey my gratitude and thanks."

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty, nearly all of us fall in the above three categories(Tamo,Rajo and Sattva).

With lots of love......Kumar.
I like that story...thank you :)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

This may be from the stand point of religions, which I think we all agree have been used as a tool for population control, but this doesn't mean it's the explanation for those of us who believe their is something else invovled here. I do not view God as some omnipotent being, obviously God isn't otherwise the world shouldn't be in the situation it is today. Take in fact, that life itself took billions of years to evolve to the point of the human being coming into existance, if God was omnipotent, he would just snap his fingers and man would be created, granted many under the religous trap do believe such a thing, obviously science can prove otherwise! My point is, that it took God a long ass time to create life! I believe that the only thing God really created was them strings and it took nearly 15 billion years for life to evolve from it!
Say perhaps that neither the Bible nor science were wrong...just how we see it...Say that 6 days to God is 6 Billion (or however) to us...then it makes sence...what if evolution did happen at God's hand...and you say why didn't he just snap his fingers and poof! May be he wanted to build from the bottom up....::shrug:: I heard a story once that each step of evolution was God showing off to the angels...like "See that...now watch this..." and making something even greater than that before...because God did do the "7 days" thing in those steps...maybe its a time continuum thing...

[Diamond Gord]

IMO, people worship only one thing and that is themselves. Everything that a person does is geared towards boosting their own ego. The person doing charity work does so because it makes them feel good about themselves, makes them feel like they are better than others because they are doing something worthwhile. The people who preach whatever religion that they belong to do so for the same reason, it boosts their own ego. Even the people posting on here, me included, are doing so because it gives them some sort of attention or recognition that will help boost their ego
Compassion, love and caring all contribute to boosting the ego of the recipiant of these emotions but, ultimitely, they are actions carried out by a person wanting to boost their own ego.
The beleif in god is simply another part of the wish to boost ones own ego.
The only god that a person truely beleives in is themselves.
This are my understanding of life at the moment but this will no doubt change as I gain more knowledge.

[FreakyJoeMan]

You are correct, but it doesn't make humans bad or anything. Living organisms, inherently, are selfish. The purpose of life is to continue, and that needs the trait of self-preservation. It's soooooo neat that out of a few simple grows all the splendor of every facet of life that we see today. :)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Indeed, time is relative to the space that one occupies. I didn't asked the question as to why God didn't just snap his hands, I made the statement that he did not, cause it is quite obvious that he didn't! I believe in God very strongly, I disagree with religious organizations very strongly! I believe most of the bible stories are that to convey morality, not nessisarily to convey true actual events, although true actual events are part of the bible as well! Any scholar whom has studied the bible will tell you it contains many contradictions, as it should, it was written by many different people with their own personal experiences with God! Story of creation, was given in the most simplest why it could be comprehended at the time! 7 days really means nothing, it was not meant to be taken litteraly other then the point that it took some time, even if you try to match up say 1 day equals 6 billion years, the numbers don't match up, over looking the story itself the only way to do it would be to make each day a different interval of years, and that just doesn't make any sense, it makes more sense as to what I said prior, the story was told to the best of their comprehention at that time. I also believe that creating everything from the ground up, was the only way that God could do it! Theirs nothing wrong with this view, in fact it tends to make everything that more precious and wonderful!
Oh...sorry I misunderstood you then dear...no I def don't believe in all the stories in the literal sense...I think they were meant to be figurative...I mean Jesus spoke in parables...so it makes sence...I was just sharing an idea that I heard that I found interesting

[Diamond Gord]

You are correct, but it doesn't make humans bad or anything. Living organisms, inherently, are selfish. The purpose of life is to continue, and that needs the trait of self-preservation. It's soooooo neat that out of a few simple grows all the splendor of every facet of life that we see today. :)I don't beleive that it does make humans bad but it does mean a person can boost their ego at the expense of others rather than boosting both their own and others egos at the same time, which is the way that I try to live my life.