Sign this petition

[vinceneilsgirl]

http://www.care2.com/go/z/24458

In the U.S., polls consistently show that the majority of American Jews support a negotiated two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But in order for this to come to fruition, it's important that American Jews raise their voices in support of a proactive U.S. policy that is both pro-Israel and pro-negotiated peace.

It's time to pursue an enduring peace in the region. That's why Care2 is helping the Jewish Alliance for Justice and Peace to convey an important message of peace to President Bush and the U.S. Congress.

Our message calls for the timely and full withdrawal of Israeli settlers and troops from the Gaza Strip and the four West Bank settlements. It urges the expansion of direct aid to the Palestinian Authority as an incentive for reining in their violent factions and making badly needed reforms. These are the critical first steps needed to bring both parties back to the negotiating table.

Security for Israel can only be achieved through the creation of an economically and politically viable Palestinian state, necessitating an end to Israel's occupation of land acquired during the 1967 war and an end to Palestinian terrorism.

[Kabbalist]

I'm sorry, not sure about this issue yet... :H

[vinceneilsgirl]

I'm sorry, not sure about this issue yet... :H
I think that it is time for peace to come to Israel. After all, the Palestinians are not really our enemies, but are our brothers and sisters under the skin. We simply cannot go on like this. So many deaths and so much violence. It is sad beyond words.

I wish Dauer was here. I want to hear his opinion on this.

[lutsko67]

I signed and I am damn proud of it!!! I am not jewish, but many of my friends are. I am very political. I hate injustice anywhere. I try to do my best to fight injustice, here and abroad. Good luck Israel!!!!

[ShimonOmer]

Deport them. Send the "palestinians" back to Jordan

[Kabbalist]

Deport them. Send the "palestinians" back to JordanWhat the heck do you mean by this bullshit?
I'm in Israel right now, and if you really mean this crap please come over and I'll show you around...

[drumminmama]

Ok, the Palestinians were brought in by the flagging British Empire:It's the 1940s. India (now India, Bangaladesh and Pakistan)was roiling the waters for freedom, what was left of European Jewry was agitating and slipping into the Biblical homeland, Iraq was stretching its wings (research Lawrence of Arabia on that one) and tha house of Sau'd was eyeing true monarchal power in the Arab Pennensula.
So what to the Brits do to try to hold off the Jewish /Zionist cause(s)?
Ship a bunch of Beduins into the Levant/Palestine, INCLUDING JORDAN, to up the "Arabic" population, in hopes of popular opinion running against the establishment of ANY Jewish homeland in the region.
(After to WWII, Theodore Herzl advocated for Uganda as a possible homeland: he was simply looking to avoid the flames of Shaoh ever again)
As you know, Israel was created in 1947, to the dismay of the Arabic world.
Many of today's Palestineans are as imported as the European and North African Jewish population.
that gives a lot of volitility to negotiations based on religious texts claiming Jerusalem and environs as the crade of their people (it is, we were all nomadic, though)
In some ways, this is the worst of sibling rivalry.

Now, I'm not overtly Zionistic. Having grown up with the Middle East situation dire as usual, I wish a two-state option could work. On the other hand, I like the idea of Right of Return.
I in my heart and soul wish for children to grow up in relative peace, with food and water and no soldiers patrolling the streets, no buses blowing up. I wish for them the stability we know in Western Europe, Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand...
I wish that a bus bombing in Israel was as mind boggling as one in London.

As a Jew, I want Jerusalem (from Jeru Saalem, city of peace) and the spot that was the Temple (now Dome of the Rock) to be in the Jewish sector.
The humanist parts of my mind wish for Jerusalem to know great peace for all its inhabitants.

I'm a mere mortal. I cannot know the answer.
I've read the Torah and am slogging through Talmud in translation (at the local library)
I've read the Quran. and many other holy books.
All they want of us is for us to behave well, have some mercy and kindness and love our creator.
Would that it could start in the City of Peace.

[drumminmama]

Note to above:

of course there were native Palestinians both Muslim and Jewish, as well as Xtian.
I'm saying the Brits created a population swell that contributes heavily to the problems we see today.
Shalom
Salaaam
peace

[NoahideHiker]

The only time the Arabs have EVER wanted peace is when the Jews have fought back and backed them against the wall. To give land because of terror attacks shows every single terrorist that terrorism DOES work.

We hypocritical Americans cheer when our leader says we will NOT negotiate with people who blow up busses and trains yet stand by silently while we force Israel to give away it’s lands and tear Jews from their homes to give to terrorists. We Americans will go half way around the world to fight terrorism yet we shun Israel for doing so within her own boarders. The time has come for Israel to stand up. Stand up and be the sovereign nation it is and not look to the US, to the UN, to ANYONE but G-d!

No, this plan will only bring more terrorism and more death.

[Moshe]

Really, all the injustices of history and questionable legitimacies of the 'palestinian people' are irrelevant here. (Yeah in response to the retarded arguments people make against Israel's legitimacy such points are often pertinent.)

We should judge the two-state solution plan simply in terms of whether, or not, we think it'll most improve the lives of both israelis and 'palestinians' in the future.

[NoahideHiker]

“We should judge the two-state solution plan, simply in terms of whether, or not, we think it'll most improve the lives of both jews and 'palestinians'.”

Exactly. If anyone can tell me this will be a good thing for Israel, I’m all ears. The Mulas are already preaching that they will create these borders with diplomacy then get the pre ’67 borders through intafada. Do a history lesson and research how the Arabs have responded each and every time Israel has made concessions. They press the attack. Even on the eve of receiving Gush Katif the Palestinians STILL shell the communities there. What makes you think they will stop when they get it? They won’t.

Btw- it was announced today that terrorism since 2000 has now claimed more innocent Jewish lives than the Six Day War and the War of Attrition.

[paix]

The only time the Arabs have EVER wanted peace is when the Jews have fought back and backed them against the wall.

I'm sorry, I know this is an old thread, but I can't let this pass. How can you possibly think that the only time that the Arabs have wanted peace is when they've been backed against a wall? They're people, the same as you and me. Do you think that the mothers want to see thier children kill others and be killed? Do you think they want to see thier babies mutilated in bus bombings, or even to see others hurt this way? Thier hearts beat just the same as ours, and thier souls want the same thing as ours, freedom to walk around without soldiers patrolling the streets, to know that they and thier children are safe, for a home and love and safety. I'm not taking a side here, I'm jewish and I have palestinian friends, and honestly I don't really know which side I support, but to say that Arabs don't want peace just as much as anyone else is a horrifying and completly untrue statement, and it makes my heart sad to see.

[the dauer]

Well said. And worth regurgitating this thread for.

[paix]

why thank you, that's very kind :0) It just upset me so much to see that...

wait, you're not being sarcastic, right?

[I have leprosy]

Israel didn't start 3 or 4 wars with the arabs... This is a real hot topic, but it seems to me Israel is held to a higher moral standard in their dealings with the Palestinians than the Palestinians are held to in their dealings with the Israelis.

[the dauer]

I wasn't being sarcastic. I guess saying regurgitate may have made it look that way, but there was no intended sarcasm.


Leprosy,

I agree that Israel is held to a higher moral standard. Why do you think that is?

[I have leprosy]

I'm not completely sure, honestly. Good PR on the part of the Palestinians? If you want to get religious about it, there's always the whole "light unto the nations" thing... maybe Israel is held to a higher standard because their role in this world is the "guiding light" Either way, Israel is the center of the world, and everyone has their eyes on it. I just wish the fighting would stop. Has anyone ever been there?

[Kabbalist]

Do you think that the mothers want to see thier children kill others and be killed?Yes, a lot of them want to see their kid honoured by all neighbours as a martyr.

Thier hearts beat just the same as ours, and thier souls want the same thing as ours, freedom to walk around without soldiers patrolling the streets, to know that they and thier children are safe, for a home and love and safety.No offense, but that statement is so outdated and naive!

Have you ever walked around in Nablus, Ramallah or Bethlehem? I did. Start a discussion about the utopia of peace, you will get nothing but a frown. Most of the Arabs don't want peace, they just want the total destruction of Israel. In fact they want to kill all

Which doesn't mean I'm pro Israeli government, we're talking about causes and consequences, but your ideas of Arabs wanting peace doesn't match with reality (in general of course). Happily there always will be people who are willing to talk but the general 'Arab' we're talking about is not one of them)

[paix]

I may be naive, but you're completly cynical. Yes, maybe some people do want to see the total destruction of Israel, but to say that they all do, well I'm not the naive one there. It may be utopian to believe that mostly people want peace, however, it is also really sad to beleive that all people of a certain race want to kill all others of another.

There are people of all races who are crazy, and want to kill massive amounts of other people for whatever reasons, it doesn't mean that all the people of that race want the same thing.

That would be like me saying that during the Nazi era, all Germans wanted to see the total destruction of non-aryan people, when in fact many Germans, many Aryan Germans worked to protect people who's lives were threatened.

Or it would be like me saying that all white south africans during aparthide wanted to ensalve all black south africans.

Or hell, even like saying that all Israelis want to see the total destruction of all palestinians, and on and on and on.

I'm not saying that palestinians are perfect, I am saying that they are not all crazy mass murderers, somehow I doubt that that's "outdated and naive".

[I have leprosy]

You're right that they're not ALL bad, but the truth is there are probably more malicious, Jew-hating Palestinians than you think. Have you ever read a Palestinian textbook?

[paix]

textbooks can never be trusted, they're put out by the government. According to our textbooks Christopher Columbus was a fine upstanding explorer who did no wrong. It's very dangerous to mix up the beliefs of a government and the beliefs of it's people, especially in this day in age.

[I have leprosy]

Our textbooks fail to point out an important contributor to history's negative aspects. Their textbooks teach children to hate the Western world, and support Islamic fundamentalism. Lame.

[Libertine]

While we're giving land to this or that group, let's give some land back that we stole from the American Indians as well. And not just some pissy little section in Oklahoma...

[hippypaul]

Ok, the Palestinians were brought in by the flagging British Empire:It's the 1940s. India (now India, Bangaladesh and Pakistan)was roiling the waters for freedom, what was left of European Jewry was agitating and slipping into the Biblical homeland, Iraq was stretching its wings (research Lawrence of Arabia on that one) and tha house of Sau'd was eyeing true monarchal power in the Arab Pennensula.
So what to the Brits do to try to hold off the Jewish /Zionist cause(s)?
Ship a bunch of Beduins into the Levant/Palestine, INCLUDING JORDAN, to up the "Arabic" population, in hopes of popular opinion running against the establishment of ANY Jewish homeland in the region.
(After to WWII, Theodore Herzl advocated for Uganda as a possible homeland: he was simply looking to avoid the flames of Shaoh ever again)
As you know, Israel was created in 1947, to the dismay of the Arabic world.
Many of today's Palestineans are as imported as the European and North African Jewish population.
that gives a lot of volitility to negotiations based on religious texts claiming Jerusalem and environs as the crade of their people (it is, we were all nomadic, though)
In some ways, this is the worst of sibling rivalry.

Now, I'm not overtly Zionistic. Having grown up with the Middle East situation dire as usual, I wish a two-state option could work. On the other hand, I like the idea of Right of Return.
I in my heart and soul wish for children to grow up in relative peace, with food and water and no soldiers patrolling the streets, no buses blowing up. I wish for them the stability we know in Western Europe, Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand...
I wish that a bus bombing in Israel was as mind boggling as one in London.

As a Jew, I want Jerusalem (from Jeru Saalem, city of peace) and the spot that was the Temple (now Dome of the Rock) to be in the Jewish sector.
The humanist parts of my mind wish for Jerusalem to know great peace for all its inhabitants.

I'm a mere mortal. I cannot know the answer.
I've read the Torah and am slogging through Talmud in translation (at the local library)
I've read the Quran. and many other holy books.
All they want of us is for us to behave well, have some mercy and kindness and love our creator.
Would that it could start in the City of Peace.
As my grandson would say you learned me something

[paix]

Our textbooks fail to point out an important contributor to history's negative aspects. Their textbooks teach children to hate the Western world, and support Islamic fundamentalism. Lame.

that was one little example, our textbooks lie about a hell of alot more than just Columbus. And I'm not saying I support the teaching of islamic fundimentalism, quite the opposite in fact, I'm simply pointing out that mixing up the beliefs of a government, and the beliefs of it's people isn't the wisest thing to do. Look at the vietnam war here for example. Children in school at that time were being taught that we were at war fighting for freedom and to stop the spread of communism, and so by that logic, you could say that all Americans supported the vietnam war, and all the atrocoties commited during it. But the fact is, more people worked to stop that war than ever before in our history, many many people didn't support it.

The same goes for slavery. Just because the government said it was OK, and enforced it, doesn't mean that huge ammounts of the american people didn't oppose slavery.

like I said, I'm not defending islamic fundimentalism here, I'm simply fighting the horrifying sterotyping and generalizations that can lead to huge problems. When we stop recognizing that people are in fact people, with pretty much the same morals as we have, and start thinking of them as a group with only one mind set, that's when we get ourselves and others into serious, irreversable, trouble. That's the kind of thing Hitler used to start the holocaust, and before you ball me out, no, I'm not saying that Israel is going to start a genocide, but I am saying that if we don't watch out, and pay attention to history, it will not be good.

[I have leprosy]

The problem is that in some cases generalizations like "Many Arabs hate Jews" or "A lot of Palestinians would like to see the complete destruction of Israel" is true. Yes, it's dangerous to make generalizations that aren't true, but unfortunately these ones are. Also, why do you assume that these people have "pretty much the same morals as we do"?

Any comparison of the Israelis to the nazis or the Palestinians to the Jews in nazi Germany is completely wack. The Jews in Germany during the rise of the nazi party were peaceful, affluent, contributing members of society. They weren't blowing up german citizens in buses on their way to work. The Palestinians made their bed, and they're lying in it, as unfortnate as it is.

[paix]

I suppose that if someone harbors hatred for others in thier heart then it would be very hard to see how others couldn't do the same.

I assume that thier morals are pretty much the same as mine, because I have faith in humanity, and because I have very good friends who are palestinian. A friend of mine's parents immigrated here from Israel, and they are NEVER anything but kind and lovely, as are all of her relatives that I've met, who are in fact from Israel. On many occasions I've heard them discuss the fact that what they really want is to see the violence stop, and see peace.

And please don't misquote me, I never said anything about the jews being like the nazis, and I never would, I have relatives who were killed in the holocause, don't twist my words.

I've said my piece, I'm done posting in this thread, I truly hope that you can someday find the love and faith for people that you soreley lack.

[I have leprosy]

Back up there... first of all I never misquoted you. I never actually quoted you at all. You started to make comments that sound similar to the all-too-common "Israel = Nazis" argument, and I wanted to reply before someone brought that up. As far as me being anti-peace, and lacking love and faith- I have no idea where that came from. I never even suggested that MOST Palestinians hate Israelis... I just said that many do. I'm not trying to spread hate, I'm just trying to dispel some myths that are believed by some naive Americans, many of whom have never been to Israel, the West Bank or Gaza. It's good to have faith in humanity, but not when it blinds you to the brutal truth that this world is full of hurtful, hateful, ill-intentioned people. Please let me apologize for anything I could have said that could lead you to believe that I want anything less than peace.

If anyone else came to the conclusion from reading my posts that I lack faith in humanity and love for my fellow man, BY ALL MEANS SPEAK UP so that I can change myself for the better.

Shalom v'Salaam