Simple questions

[Trader]

- I've just discovered two "monsters" in my grow are males. Is there anything worthwhile to do with males (besides seeding...which I don't need)?

- The "queen" female is HUGE...30+" in two months! (Northern Light w/CO2/etc.) I just took 30+ clones. Anything to watch out for as they start to root?

- And is 85 to 90 degrees acceptable when using CO2/mylar/light-movers/good ventilation?

- And lastly, when the flower room is closed there is just the faintest hint of light 'passing thru' the divider (foam board with mylar). Is this taint of light hindering anything? (There can't be more than the equivalent of a match if the light was all in one place)

Thanks....

[rocketdude1234]

if ur wondering about males look at past posts i.e. the one that says "MALES"

[Trader]

Yeah, saw a few answers right after I posted.

As to harvesting...

Anyone have opinions as to a HUGE mother plant: either trimming it a bit before budding (to enhance the size of what's left), or should it just be left alone?

And if anyone is using CO2...what temps are you keeping the rooms between?

First-timer at this....so pardon my ignorance.

Thanks all...

[humandraydel]

- No real use for males other than seed making...

- Cloning can be difficult, just make sure you have optimum conditions for rooting. If you aren't sure either ask here or research at overgrow.com

- Temps are acceptable although I'd prefer 85 over 90...also, something to think about: if you have good ventilation then the CO2 isn't really doing much because you'll just be exhausting the CO2 enriched air out of your room/box/cabinet/etc. If you need to reduce temps consider having light ON at night and OFF during the day.

- A faint hint of light should be fine but if it's easy to fix it you might as well...

[humandraydel]

Yeah, saw a few answers right after I posted.

As to harvesting...

Anyone have opinions as to a HUGE mother plant: either trimming it a bit before budding (to enhance the size of what's left), or should it just be left alone?

I'm a bit confused on this question just because if you are close to harvesting then it's already started budding, so you couldn't trim it before budding...

I THINK you are asking if you should trim fan leaves during the budding stages so the plants can spend more energy on fattening up the buds?

My personal opinion is no, you shouldn't. Those fan leaves are like giant solar panels which will absorb lots of light that is needed for photosynthesis. Also, if you flush for a week before harvest the leaves act as a source of nutrients as the plant transfers nutrients from those leaves to the buds.

[geckopelli]

CO2 is not nearly as effective after budding starts in earnest. So those dramatic results will not be so apparent as they were during veg.

Males also contain some amount of desirable chems. Smoke 'em, or make hash. Try 'em at least.

A little light can go a long way...
Any light brighter than the full moon is potentially dangerous to the flowering cycle, BUT, the effect is localized. In other words, if a bright beam of light falls upon a single branch, than only that branch is effected- the rest of the plant goes on as normal.

85 seems kind of hot for a CO2 enriched enviroment. Knock it down 5 or 10 degrees if you can.

[Trader]

Thanks to all who replied. This is my first grow so I appreciate all info and tips.

For a bit more on my (divided) grow room, it's rather good size 1200+ sq.ft., massive intake and exhaust squirrel fans, and CO2 generator.

Regarding an earlier question of mine; Yes, I was referring to cutting back the smaller bud stalks, not the fan leaves. My fan leaves are wonderful, and the only leaves that 'degrade and fall off' are the ones in the interior. Very small amount.

This "mother" is amazing! Over 56" in 2 months and 10 days....in a 3 gallon pot! A Northern Light...in case anyone wanted to know. I have little clones of her happily moving along.

The BIG problem now is that it's going to become too tall under the 1000 on the light mover.

Any suggestions for this? Can the light be off to the side now that it's so tall?

[rocketdude1234]

1200 sg ft. ????? thats a whole apartment?

[Trader]

Ooops...I meant to say "cubic feet"...not square feet. It's a converted container (half-size) 8 x 8 x 20. I'm so used to doing the calculations for the gas, etc., that I missed that one.

Hey, the "mother ship" is growing too tall and still has weeks to go in bloom cycle. How do I amend that given that I have a fixed size?

:):&

[geckopelli]

Start tying the growing tips back.

You can continually add new ties to the plant so that the highest growing shoot grows like a sideways "S", or you can keep tying the tallest tip down until the side branches catch up to it.

[Trader]

Really? So it'll continue to grow okay with the main cola growing sideways? This plant is unbelievable! It's got so many bud stalks....well over 75...that it's almost as wide as it is tall.

Does anyone actually post pics?

[geckopelli]

Actually, the branch that is the tallest at any given time is what the plant considers the "main cola".

If you continually bend and tie down the main stem, forcing the plant to grow along the ground, then each individual branch acts as an independent plant. This is how you get 5+ lbs on a plant. Your root system is the limiting factor (and of course, light, if inside).
---------
I've posted some pics in the past...

But hurricane Charley wiped-out my facilities (and just about those of everybody else back home), so I got nothing now.

[Trader]

Thanks.

This is my first attempt at this...so I've only tied the main cola down about a foot's worth. Of course, the thing's in such a hurry it's already started to turn upward towards the light.
Laughingly, I can't believe the ONE seed that survived (from quite a "purchase") managed to grow like Hercules! This thing just shot-off like a rocket...the tap root was 3" just from the peat plug.
Now the thing is almost as wide as tall...with colas everywhere.

Since I have nothing to judge it by...(other than subsequent plants not doing as well, or newer)...I don't know if the colas are considered to be forming well or what.

Any tips on making the flower cycle better than average?

Thanks.

[geckopelli]

Keep a light fan blowing on the plant.
The gentle rocking in the wind will significantly strengthen the stems.
I don't recall your lighting scheme, but if it's exclusively, or even predominately, HPS, and your lucky, your buds will be so heavy that they'll want to fall over. (Remember, red and yellow light promote longer, thinner stems). So encouraging the plant to shore itself up is a good idea.

In fact, I highly recomend a fan blowing on all plants from the time they are seedlings. By doing so, the need to tie plants to a stake or something is drastically reduced.
----------
A bit of a lecture, I'm afraid:

Another way to promote strong stems is the addition of blue and violet wavelenghts. Plants grown under MH are significantly shorter and stronger (which translates into tighter buds) than those grown under HPS, although the dry weight is generally equitable.

Also, MH produces superior quality chemicals compared to HPS.
Growers may argue this, but I'm speaking from quite a bit of experience with single-plant clones grown in seperate lighting enviroments, as well as from some formal trainning (and alot of informal as well!) in organic Chemistry.

THC is a high energy cannabinoid. It's percursors, i.e. CBD, is a lower energy cannabiniod, as are it's breakdown products (Like CBN, if I recall correctly).

Likewise, light toward the violet end of the spectrum is higher in energy content than light toward the red.

What this means is that it takes more red light, be it measured in watts, wavelenghts, or "individual" photons, to "upgrade" the abundantly occuring CBD into THC (remember, the plant has no inherent need for THC, as the other, "cheaper" in energy content, cannabinods present handle the job quite well).

This is the reason natural populations of cannabis tend toward higher THC content as one approaches the equator and/or higher altitudes. The blues are more pronounced in those places, because the atomophere is thinner.

In practice, mixing MH/HPS in a wattage ration of not less than 60/40 has proven highly desirable. But if I could choose only one or the other, I'd break with the tradionalist and take MH without a second thought.

[Trader]

Hey thanks. Great info! Quite the lesson in biochemistry!

My flower room has a 1000hps on a lightmover. Trouble is...(laughingly)...the one monster female is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY bigger than it's cousins, so I had to put a raised platform to get the newer folks higher up.

The folks start out under fluorescent, move to a room with a 400mh and a 600hps on a lightmover. The pair run together...about two feet apart...but they can be lifted to different heights to accomodate growth. Both areas are fed CO2...and YES, fans everywhere!! Lots of motion.

Right now I'm trying to ascertain the sex of the new group. I've got some that are taking off...tall and strong...but that's what the books say that males look like. I could use the space...so I'm hoping to figure this out soon.

Do you know how soon I can take clones just to figure out sex?

TKS

[geckopelli]

As soon as the side branching is long enough.

Some will tell you 8", but the cloner laughs and takes 1" to 2" cuttings.

I'm not that good, but 4" is more than plenty.

You basically just need to practice tying the plants back to keep the top of the green canopy more or less even.

Go to 12 hours earlier. You'll notice alot of usless stem growth when you harvest. That growth was a waste of time.
Unless you have a good deal of sidelighting, only the top 18" to 30" or so of the plant is productive. Long vegging periods under artificial lights is a waste of valuble budding time.
Now, outdoors...

[rangerdanger]

CO2 shouldn't be used during lights off and has little to no effect on the plants past the first 3 weeks of flowering.
85 F is spot on for CO2 augmentation.

[meangreen]

Rangerdanger,are you saying that increased co2 levels from the norm(275-325ppm) while in flower after the third week of flower has no bearing or is a waste,funny how co2 increases are proven to increase the rate of photosynthesis which is a fact of the developement of any plant and that the process will continue as much thru flower as it did in veg.A plants light needs/colors may change from veg to flower but what is previlent in either mode is the need of co2 for the process of photosynthesis which is as much a part of flower as veg,or are you suggesting that with no prior co2 supps ,increased co2 after the 3 week flower will not show increased yields.Please explain?

[Trader]

My CO2 burner is in the veg. room which is 24 hrs. "light on". The passageway to the flower room is open during the 12 hr. period so it still is getting CO2.

I'm not too worried about excess CO2 anyway, the 500lb tank (outside) barely registers being used...(as opposed to heating the house in the winter!)

I've just passed the 3+ week mark on the flower cycle. I'll be interested to see if the buds continue to increase and enlarge...but they're getting the CO2 regardless.

TKS.

[rangerdanger]

I've been growing pot indoors for 15 years.
I invested $1,000.00 about 10 years ago for a complete CO2 augmentation system.
Which now sits in my garage, gathering dust.
Because I discovered that excellent ventilation is almost as good as augmentating with CO2, and cheaper and less hassle.
Increased levels of CO2 help during lights on during veg and the first 3 weeks of flowering, when the plant is growing (in height).
After that, the plant changes. The plant is no longer growing per se; it is making buds.

I was luckly enough to be able to run multiple grow chambers a few years back, and did side-by-side comparisons. The rate of bud production, and the final yield showed me that CO2 doesn't help during bud formation.

Plants also need nute's during veg and most of flowering. But many growers flush their plants during the last 2 weeks of flowering, using just plain water--yet bud/trich production continue's.

To adequately utilize CO2 augmentation, you need to know how much CO2 is present (the last time I checked atmospheric ppm meters cost $500.00) and you also need a way to regulate the amt. it's getting--too much is just as 'bad' as too little.

What CO2 does is speed up growth during veg. If you are growing to a certain height before switching to flowering, using CO2 will get you to that height quicker--approx 10% quicker than flo-thro ventilation.
But it won't speed up the time needed for bud production/ripeness, nor will it make for bigger, or more stonier buds in the final yield.

I also found out:
-HPS is the best light to use for seeds or rooted clones, right through to finish.
-An extended dark period at the end of flowering does no good.
-Hanging plants/buds upside-down in NOT the best way to dry (unless you live in an area with high humidity).
-Buds should be dried to the point of a fine cigar (slightly moist). It can be stored in this condition for years (just like cigars).
-Curing increases potency as well as greatly improving taste and aroma.

[meangreen]

I have been at it as long as you,longer in fact with some breaks and I beg to differ.In know way does proper ventilation(300ppm) increase the metabolic rate of a plant as would co2 inhancment in excess of anything beyond 300ppm in veg or flower.I run a generator off propane with air cooled hoods and co2 augmentation has on every occasion out yielded the non-augmented with many different strains.Plants use Co2 to manufacture chlorophyll and also for the process of photosynthesis to manufacture starches which are initially carbohydrates with the carbon in carbohydrates being derived from carbon dioxide.Yes,people using co2 can run into problems as augmentated plants do require alot more nutrients and water to maintain the increased metabolic rates brought on from co2 at increased rates above 300ppm.Plants transpiration is changed as well under enrichment as stomata closes slightly thus slowing down loss of vapor to the air creating a fuller and healthier plant with prolonged life prior to wilting.I am sorry to hear ya had little improvement when ya used co2 10 years ago,but 1000's of nurseries to this day use inrichment indoors for out of season crops thru both veg and flower with increased yields of what they get outdoors not to mention big growers of cannabis.You would not happen to be rangerdanger from growkind?Peace

[rangerdanger]

I see.
And what CO2 ppm do you run during lights on? How do you exhaust excess CO2 during lights out, when the plant stops converting CO2 to O2 and reverses the process?
And how do you regulate it, to keep it at optimum levels (1200 ppm)?


I stand by what I said. for the average home grower, excellent ventilation is more cost-effective than CO2 aumentation.

Faster does not necassaily mean bigger or better.

[meangreen]

I run elicent fans which with carbon filter as exhaust in between the co2 cycles which in turn gets me to 1500 ppm and by the time levels drop to 1200ppm the process begins once again.Co2 is not run during lights out and in fact you probly know as well as I that respiration takes place at this time where plants take in oxygen and release co2.the ole saying,"photosynthesis minus respiration equals growth".I completely agree with you on for the average homeowner the most cost effective way is proper ventilation.You are also correct that faster is not better,but time saved is better then time lost.I have found that and as well as scientific studies that enrichment above ther norm does increase female ratio.The way my conclusion has came forth was via doing same strains as fellow gardeners while maintaining similar climates with the exception of the co2 and female ratios in every situation came in higher.I have enjoyed this comparitive conversation as well as the other responses you have made on other threads.Knowlege shared via pragmatics is far more valueable then any book will teach so keep it up,its great to have another here willing to share that knowlege.Peace

[rangerdanger]

Wait a second.
You're saying that CO2 augmentation affect sex? Never heard of that. Everything I raised under CO2 augmentation were from female clones.

What kind of atmospheric ppm meter are you using?

When I was augmenting with CO2, I switched to 12/12 when the plants were 15" tall.
It took 21 days with excellent ventilation to get to that point, vs. 17 or 18 days with 1200 ppm CO2.
And it had no affect on the ultimate size or potency of the buds.

I live very remotely, grow just for myself and a few friends (fuck the supreme court btw), and I found it a big hassle to lug the CO2 tank to the welding shop every 2--3 weeks at $17.00 a refill. Back in those days I was also concerned about stealth, since most people have no need for tanks of CO2 every few weeks.

[meangreen]

Absolutely increases females in comparatives I have done and there has been scientific studies that come to the same conclusion.I dont use any expensive co2 monitoring equipment that enevitably will fail as for pennies on the the dollar I can test the air via a co2 detector syringe with cheap test tubes.I got a line on the test tubes for next to nothing.just a matter of knowing the size of your room and output of the specific generator in use and then the time it takes for levels to drop to a specific pre-determined level and then process repeats itself.depending on room size it takes me on avg 3-4 test tubes to dial in the on/off times for the gen/fans/etc with the knowlege of knowing I have no expensive monitoring equipment to fail.I use 2 small propane tanks(5 gal) with a splitter that automatically switches from 1 tank to the other when one runs out and on average I have to refill a tank every 20-25 days depending on room size(average cost per month is $10),propane is cheap but natural gas is even cheaper to run.I agree with ya that its time which is saved, with no improvement in quality ,but I get on average 10-20% more yield in a shorter time.I have been doing alot of bean making as of late as I have access to many great strains and figured I will get my count up as I truly believe a plant from seed is more vigorous then any clone.Like you I dont grow for nominal value but for private use and to share with less fortunate people.I veg on 18/6 avg 3 weeks then do a steady count down to 12/12 droping a hour a day and by the 6th day of the 4th week I am typically sexed.I like the more natural count down with whats found in mother nature as it will lessen males when ya think about how there is a chance for stress when abruptly changin light schedules.I have fellow grow buddies here in the states as well as a owner of a well establised seed bank north of the border that swear using liquid kelp with all waterings the first 2 weeks veg will increase female primordia.Outta time ,rap some more later.Peace