Why are Hindus such weak people?

[Ladylocks]

Hindus have lost Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir to Islamic tyranny. Hindus allow christian missionaries to operate in their own lands when such people openly want to crush them by all means.

HIndus have been bent over by muslims for over a 1,000 years and its culture ruined, civilizations lost, millions died etc. And Hindus still bend over?

Hindus are purged in every nation they enter and either bend over or flee. Hindus are persecuted in their own lands by Christian minorities and muslims and the people accept it.

Why are Hindus so spineless and bent on their own destruction?

Why do they love getting screwed by all their neighbours time and time again.. why do Hindus lack unity and action?

[rays_of_gay]

that is such a cruel think to say. they are lovely people and very sensual.

[BlackBillBlake]

So who in your opinion are strong people?

[philuk]

Are persecuted in their own lands by Christian minorities and Muslims.

Not by true Christians or Muslims, just the ignorant and blind.

[Alexia]

I think true followers are always a minority.


I agree, Hindu people behave so weak even when they're a majority. I think that's why a handful of muslims and a british company could conquer India so easily. Indians are a docile race cuz of their religion.

The Jewish people were also weak but now they fight and take no crap from anyone.

[Spaceduck]

It sounds cruel, but Ladylocks makes a good point. I have some Hindu ancestry, and it really bothers me that my forefathers & relatives are so bovine. I believe it stems from their misinterpretation of destiny.

Hindus believe that everything is predestined, which is fine, but they use it as an excuse for sitting on their asses. I have an uncle who is afraid to leave his house unless the stars tell him it's ok. http://hipforums.com/forums/images/icons/newicons/crazy.gif On the other hand, a few like Gandhi & Shivaji (the warrior king) understand that destiny = you must play your part to the best of your abilities. These types are the strong ones, but they are very rare. The fault lies not in the religion but in the culture.

[Ladylocks]

Actually I was thinking more of Karma and Dharma towards society and against wrong actions. The average Hindu only thinks about his own community, family and his personal moksha. Nothing else. Whenever Hindus have been treated wrong, the people just accept it while the rest are indifferent. I.E Hindus run away from their homes in Kashmir, northeast, Fiji, Guyana, Surinam, Uganda etc.

You can debate about zionism, but they have the dedication Hindus lack. Hindus can spend money on building temples, but no money on self-defense against other hostile communities. True there are good people in other communities, but that has not stopped persecution of HIndus from pakistan, bangladesh, within India etc. Even as a foreign policy, India has no vision. They want to please everyboy with good intentions and every time they loose out more and more until eventually there will be nothing left.

Where is this great "Kshatriya" spirit or adherence to Veda/Panchatantras. Even poor farmers gave Alexander hell when he dared to invade India 2,000 years ago.

Your ancestors were lions and had wisdom to act for self-interest of majority in a united Hindu nation, where is that spirit now?
From what I can gather, all your hindu leaders are a disgrace to your race. But I read about Subhash Chandra Bose and he indeed is a credit to your race.

[Ladylocks]

HIndus are so weak, they can't even change laws in their own lands to fit the majority. YOu still follow british structure and don't even look at your own culture/history. YOu need western people to tell you what to do. YOu are a white collared bunch. SOunds harsh but its true.

Its no secret that since you have no self respect for yourself, others just walk all over you.

In fact if the epic Mahabharat was playing today, I bet that prince Arjun would just flee the battlefield and we would never have a Geeta. And yet all these hindus read it and never take much action when the situation requires it. WHen did Hindus become so docile I wonder...

[Spaceduck]

Where is this great "Kshatriya" spirit or adherence to Veda/Panchatantras. Your ancestors were lions and had wisdom to act for self-interest of majority in a united Hindu nation, where is that spirit now?Right. The Hindu scriptures carry a message of bravery & strength. As you mentioned, the Gita is the story of how God convinces a peace-loving man to go back and fight & kill his brothers in order to reclaim his rightful kingdom.

So, yeah, when did they suddenly become wusses? Again, I say it's cultural. Perhaps it's geographic. But there's nothing in the religion itself that says you must be a wimp. Now, my opinion is based entirely on scriptures & literature; it's entirely possible that the spoken word is propagating horrible misinterpretations. But that happens with every religion.

[philuk]

but no money on self-defense against other hostile communities.
And there was me thinking India is a nuclear power, and on the brink of nuclear war over it's borders.

[Ladylocks]

India is a 'secular' country where minority groups pull the arm of the majority. Pathetic.

Having nukes is nothing new. THey had it since 1974 and has not stopped its neighbours from kicking ass cuz Hindus are so weak.

If a jew was killed in west bank then where would be hell to pay. If a HIndu soldier is killed and tortured by a muslim Bangladeshi at the border then cowardly Hindus apologise and kiss muslim ass. no wonder.

[BlackBillBlake]

India is a 'secular' country where minority groups pull the arm of the majority. Pathetic.

Having nukes is nothing new. THey had it since 1974 and has not stopped its neighbours from kicking ass cuz Hindus are so weak.

If a jew was killed in west bank then where would be hell to pay. If a HIndu soldier is killed and tortured by a muslim Bangladeshi at the border then cowardly Hindus apologise and kiss muslim ass. no wonder.
You've made your somewhat repititious point that you think hindus are weak, But you haven't told us who you think is strong?

Your point about the British Empire though is irrelevant. India was there long before the British Empire (or Islam, come to that), and endures still now the Empire is only a memory. It will probably be there still when other upstart empires are consigned to history. In fact, other than China, I don't think there's a longer continuous line of civilization to be found elsewhere on the planet.
That is hardly a sign of weakness.

[Ladylocks]

If it wasn't for armed mutines in the armed forces during WWII, the hindus would never have been free from the british. It's good to see that some hindus had a spine.


And thanks to sponsorship by HItler/Japanese the Hindus actively fought british in a seperate army. '

And the only other wise decision they made as a state was putting all the chinese in concentration camps. And luckily mass migration of chinese stopped and saved the hindu nation from destruction.

[philuk]

You've made your somewhat repititious point that you think hindus are weak, But you haven't told us who you think is strong?
Exactly, this whole argument depends on what your definition of strong is ?

Some say violence, others turning the other cheek.

Is either right or wrong ?

[tiki_god7]

was jesus weak then too? he knew Judas would betray him to the Romans and he still loved Judas, he even told judas that he would betray him. He even forgave the people that were pounding nails thru his wrists, is he weak for accepting his fate without struggle?

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

was jesus weak then too? he knew Judas would betray him to the Romans and he still loved Judas, he even told judas that he would betray him. He even forgave the people that were pounding nails thru his wrists, is he weak for accepting his fate without struggle?
I would define that as def. strongest of all...I mean think about it...how hard is it to even forgive someone for something silly? Now imagine forgiving them for something like giving you to be crucified or for the act itself. That's why, if nothing else, I have so much respect and love for Jesus...because that forgiveness is a miracle in itself... I hope that we may all learn from such an example...

[BlackBillBlake]

India is a 'secular' country where minority groups pull the arm of the majority. Pathetic.

Ah - you mean like in America!

[philuk]

Mahatma Gandhi famously said

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

[tiki_god7]

I think somebody said this once.....'to error is human, to forgive is divine'

kinda relevant I guess

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Ah - you mean like in America!
That is so sad but true... my country is so retarted sometimes...lol...

[Zion]

The bava baghita Speaks of a holy war the jihad, but this war was supposed to be internal. The mastery of rational and overall appreciation. But like most other religions politics took over are reinacted the crusades, the incuisition, even the crucifiction. Its not just the hindus its eveen the americans. Politics creat war. the intent of religion is to realize ones existence and be grateful for such a maricle.

[BlackGuardXIII]

To me, Mahatma Gandhi, and his acts of passive resistance were some of the bravest acts anyone could ever do. It is a mistake to think that refusing to be violent is a weakness, it is quite the opposite. Giving in to the primitive urge to be violent is the weakness, and it requires great strength to remain passive while enduring physical, mental, and emotional abuse. Only love can defeat hate, and hatred is really only a product of fear. To resist violence is to overcome the fear of physical injury and death.
A Hindu parable I like is about a scorpion that fell into a stream, and was saved by a Hindu, who was then stung. Two more times, the scorpion fell in, was saved, and stung the guru. When an observer asked why he kept saving it, the guru replied, " It is in the scorpions nature to sting, and it is in the Hindus nature to help."
Here is another example of what I see as being great strength and courage.

There was a fierce warlord who ruled the countryside with ruthless violence, killing all who opposed him, and taking whatever he pleased wherever he went.
One of the villages heard he and his followers were ravaging the areas nearby and was headed for their village. The whole village grabbed what they could carry, and headed for the hills, fearing for their lives.
One monk, the most wise and elderly one, said he would stay behind in the temple. Everyone thought him crazy and that he would be killed for sure.
The warlord entered the village and soon found the sole remaining inhabitant, and was affronted by his audacity to have not fled.
He said to the monk, " Don't you know who I am. I am the man that could run you through with this sword without blinking an eye!"
The monk was not at all affected by this, and replied to him, " Don't you know who I am? I am the man that you could run through with your sword, and I would not blink an eye."
The warlord was so awed by this monk's response that he gave up his old ways and stayed as a student of the monk from then on.

[Ladylocks]

This total absence from himsa is sanyasi dharma. A sanyasin is forbidden from committing violence even to protect himself. But you are applying this logic to all Hindus. A general Hindu is not supposed to brook torrential insult and oppression without a show of resistance.

Dont get into a false impression that sacrificing your life without resistance gives you moksha. It is actually called cowardice and forsaking Dharma. Ahimsa is very powerful - under the correct context. If you are going to wave the flag of peace to a terrorist who is pointing his AK47 at you, you will simply be mowed down.

Theory and practice are different. Bhagavad Gita is the classic example of when to use violence. Remember, Krishna did not applaud Arjuna from running away from the battle field. Arjuna was a kshtariya whose foremost duty is to establish dharma and if it needs killing, he has to do it. Hindus can resort to violence to establish dharma.

[Ladylocks]

http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/moghal_atro.html (http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/moghal_atro.html)

[BlackBillBlake]

That is so sad but true... my country is so retarted sometimes...lol...
I know that you understand it is the US government of which I am critical, and not the American people in general.

[Jedi]

The essence of Hinduism is Ahimsa but this does not mean that you sit around and do nothing when you are being killed or something wrong is being done to you.

The reason India was taken over by muslims was that it was divided into small nations. The reason India was taken over by the british was Indian Politics of that time, it had nothing to do with hinduism. Many Hindu kings killed alot of people as well and their killing had nothing to do with hinduism.

Mahatma Gandhi, who wanted to be a pure Hindu and "true Indian" is a good example of what hinduism really means. You do not fight when you do not have to, but when you do have to, you will.

If you are real true hindu, you do not fight for power, neither do you fight for your survival, you fight for righteousness. Righteousness= Dharma. You fight for your Dharma and it shall protect you always.

So Hinduism is not about forming a "group" of people who have certain beliefs and hold them and fight anyone who goes against them.

Hinduism is about giving internal strength to the individual, it is about self betterment and Righteousness.
Righteousness is God.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I know that you understand it is the US government of which I am critical, and not the American people in general.
Oh I do...I was also refering to the government...I'm reading an autobiography of Thomas Jefferson...he would be so disgusted with our government now...

[philuk]

A general Hindu is not supposed to brook torrential insult and oppression without a show of resistance.

Not sure what a general Hindu is. I would think there are true Hindu's and superficial Hindu's.

In my opinion the beautiful story by BlackGuardXIII demonstrates a true Hindu,

The monk was not at all affected by this, and replied to him, " Don't you know who I am? I am the man that you could run through with your sword, and I would not blink an eye."
What you post about Ladylocks has nothing to do with Hinduism. It's all about ego. It all about how you want things to be, not God's.

[BlackGuardXIII]

All this negative commentary throughout the various religious threads, is imho, just a great piece of supporting evidence that we are indeed in the last years of the Kali Yuga, the most depraved and base age of humanity. If this is true, then I am very comforted by the knowledge that this will soon be over, and the ages will change. This is what I think is the case, and I hope that the new age is as glorious as the Hindu texts describe it to be. The current age is certainly very accurately portrayed as being an extreme low point in humanity's timeline, and it is described excellently by the ancient authors.

Of course, many other ancients also point to this particular time as the time period wherein there will be an end of an age, and then a new beginning. Ie: The Mayans, Astrology, The Hopi, The Christians, etc.

[BlackBillBlake]

All this negative commentary throughout the various religious threads, is imho, just a great piece of supporting evidence that we are indeed in the last years of the Kali Yuga, the most depraved and base age of humanity. If this is true, then I am very comforted by the knowledge that this will soon be over, and the ages will change. This is what I think is the case, and I hope that the new age is as glorious as the Hindu texts describe it to be. The current age is certainly very accurately portrayed as being an extreme low point in humanity's timeline, and it is described excellently by the ancient authors.

Of course, many other ancients also point to this particular time as the time period wherein there will be an end of an age, and then a new beginning. Ie: The Mayans, Astrology, The Hopi, The Christians, etc.
Can you tell me where you have the info that kali yuga is nearing its end?
I've read that it has many thousands of years to run yet.

[Bhaskar]

We are only ie beginning of the Kali Yuga in fact, there is still more than 200,000 years remaining before Kalki avatar and the return to the satya yuga. If you think things are bad now...

[Bhaskar]

As for weakness, grass may not have the hard trunk of the coconut tree, but it weathers the storm, when mighties trees fall. Of all the ancient civilizations of the world, the Hindu civilization is the only one that still flourishes, with the possible exception of Japanese and Chinese, both of which are outdated by the Indus valley settlers.

Yes, India has been repeatedly invaded, but the invaders merged and became one with us, except the British, who were thrown out. The Mughal empire is not considered middle eastern, its association is with India only. They become one with us, we flourish and grow from it.

[Jezmund]

Hey as a Hindu I resent the original poster's comments. Hinduism is the oldest surviving religion of the world. It saw its golden age just like so many countless civilazations of the same era. Unlike Hinduism the other polytheistic religions just faded away

Even after hundreds of years of persecution by their muslim leaders the Hindus always survived never bowing down. This was accomplished without raising a single finger (even though there were many signifigant rebellions against the mogul empire). That is power.

Later on India lost a huge amount of land to the muslims after winning the peaceful rebellion against the british empire. But this didnt have anything to do with being a Hindu country. It was all politics. Gandhi was actually assinated by a right wing Hindu group because he decided to help the muslims build their own country.

hinduism will last forever my friends. It has survived longer than any other mind you. Its here to stay

[Bhaskar]

My only problem with what you say is in referring to Hinduism as polytheistic, which it is not. It is the single most unifying vision of divinity anywhere, where the entire universe and all other universes that may exist, all creation, forms only a small part of God and that everything and everyone is imbued by that divinity, so we are all essentially one soul, one being. That is the essential idea behind Hinduism. It is neither polytheistic, nor impersonal, for what is more personal than your own self?

[StonerBill]

ladylocks is just ignorant, lets hope shes not a christian caus otherwise shed be showing off how much of a shit one she is.

anyway, to forgive isnt divine always, its only divine when you have the upper hand. if your stepped on by a higher power, then its -stronger- to go 'fuck you!' (while probably foolish too).

but the main issue is that these people are evidently peaceful.

you know what physical force and violence is? its what animals do. humans are animals afterall, but the further you move from violence and agression and caring about territory and stuff, the further you are from being an animal. it is the indian and asian religions that teach about true enlightenment and stuff so its highly understandable that hindus dont want to take part in physical combat and violence.

its primative

and i think its clearly the weaker option, relying on force and not our power as humans - our minds

so ladylock can go suck a cock for money on the roadside caus she cant stand being weak and living on the street, and the hindus can have their land taken, but, in their eyes, rise to a higher level and be clean of the sins that all the western cultures hypocrisise about.

[BlackBillBlake]

My only problem with what you say is in referring to Hinduism as polytheistic, which it is not. It is the single most unifying vision of divinity anywhere, where the entire universe and all other universes that may exist, all creation, forms only a small part of God and that everything and everyone is imbued by that divinity, so we are all essentially one soul, one being. That is the essential idea behind Hinduism. It is neither polytheistic, nor impersonal, for what is more personal than your own self?
Are you suggesting that hinduism is superior to other spiritual paths?

[Bhaskar]

not at all. I firmly believe that other spiritual paths say the same thing and have the exact same vision, when correctly understood.

[BlackBillBlake]

not at all. I firmly believe that other spiritual paths say the same thing and have the exact same vision, when correctly understood.
OK - that's great.

[Bikshu]

Most people who claim a religion don't follow it.

[Ladylocks]

Mahatma Gandhi, who wanted to be a pure Hindu and "true Indian" is a good example of what hinduism really means. You do not fight when you do not have to, but when you do have to, you will.
gandhi was a minor role in indian independence. The real drive behind independence was Bose and the indian naval strikes- armed resistance. Without them, gandhi would just continue with his protests for the rest of his life in failure, just like the dalai lama.

Most people who claim a religion don't follow it.
Exactly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ryvs1YuQo Watch and enjoy the fun.

[niranjan]

Hindus have lost Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir to Islamic tyranny. Hindus allow christian missionaries to operate in their own lands when such people openly want to crush them by all means.

HIndus have been bent over by muslims for over a 1,000 years and its culture ruined, civilizations lost, millions died etc. And Hindus still bend over?

Hindus are purged in every nation they enter and either bend over or flee. Hindus are persecuted in their own lands by Christian minorities and muslims and the people accept it.

Why are Hindus so spineless and bent on their own destruction?

Why do they love getting screwed by all their neighbours time and time again.. why do Hindus lack unity and action?




India is the land of the most ancient warrior code on earth , and the most ancient martial arts.

The greeks under alexander, the huns, the scythians, the arabs, the uzbeks, the turks, the iranians, the pathans, the tartars, the portuguese, the french, the dutch, the british, the chinese , the pakistanis to the present day have tested our blade , and we thrashed them all manfully.We have had fights with many nations of the earth, and we have defeated all of them. we had suffered repulses, but we bounced back to win the good fight.Probably no nation on earth is as battle-scarred as India is.

We are still standing after all these milleniums, while the egyptian, the babylonian, the zoroastrian and other ancient civilizations have collapsed.


One of the greatest teaching of the bhagavad gita by Krishna is this,"Yield not to unmanliness, it does not befit thee. "

[niranjan]

gandhi was a minor role in indian independence. The real drive behind independence was Bose and the indian naval strikes- armed resistance. Without them, gandhi would just continue with his protests for the rest of his life in failure, just like the dalai lama.


Exactly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ryvs1YuQo Watch and enjoy the fun.

Both Subhash Chandra Bose and Mahatma Gandhi were highly influenced by Swami Vivekananda.And both their contributions are crucial.

Gandhi represented the civilian, and helped to mobilise the civilians to fight peacefully and non-violently against the british, and not to cooperate with the administration, thus paralysing it, and boycotting the foreign british goods, which hurt the british economically very badly.

Bose represented the soldier, and helped to mobilise the soldiers to form the INDIAN NATIONAL ARMY, whose goal was to stir a rebellion identical to the 1857 mutiny in the british royal army , composed of Indian soldiers , and to fight the british.


Reflecting on the factors that guided the British decision to relinquish the Raj in India, Clement Attlee, the then British prime minister, cited several reasons, the most important of which were the INA activities of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, which weakened the Indian Army - the foundation of the British Empire in India- and the RIN Mutiny that made the British realise that the Indian armed forces could no longer be trusted to prop up the Raj.

[niranjan]

India at the moment has the third largest armed forces in the world, with a battle tested army, formidable air force( which comprehensively defeated the U.S . air force in friendly tests in the U.S. ), a superb blue water navy with nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers and the most lethal anti-ship missile in the world brahmos.

India also possess nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles, that makes her the fourth most powerful nation in the world, after the U.S., RUSSIA AND CHINA.


India is also the second fastest growing economy in the world, after china.




India also recently became a land of one lakh millionaires.(dollar terms )

After Singapore, its fastest growing club in the world.


Riding high on strong economic growth and robust gains in stock markets ,
the number of millionaires in India has crossed one lakh mark. This makes
India the world's second fastest growing nation after Singapore.

India has also recently became a trillion dollar economy, one of the few nations in the world to do so.

The steel king, laxmi das mittal , is the third richest man in the world, with assets of more than 40 billion dollars.

The founder of wipro, azim premji, the multi-billionaire, is the 10th richest man in the world.

India has recently pipped Japan as being the country with the most number of billionaires (dollar terms ) in asia.


And economists say that all this is only going to improve.

[stoney69]

isn't it sad ..this great divide among humans ?

and the left-over's of this great civilisation still havin "untouchables" within!

[niranjan]

isn't it sad ..this great divide among humans ?

and the left-over's of this great civilisation still havin "untouchables" within!
The so-called caste system is a feudal institution like those in japan and europe and russia.

And what do you mean by the left overs. Hindu civilization is complete and is as it is , milleniums back.

And untouchability, which has no sanction in the vedas, is banned in the indian constitution, made by an untouchable himself, (just like the ramayana and the mahabharatha were created by hindu so-called untouchables) and anyone who practices it can be arrested and prosecuted.

And I know this because , I am a so-called untouchable myself.

[Jedi]

Everyone is the same in front of God. When we think something makes us superior or someone else superior, then we are just simply ignorant.

[stoney69]

thank you!

[Ladylocks]

India is the land of the most ancient warrior code on earth , and the most ancient martial arts.Oh really, is that why you were beaten and humiliated by a handful of muslim bandits and later a british company for the last 1,000 years? And the fact that you were given independence was cuz among a billion indians, there was only one with spine and who the british actually feared i.e bose.

Go help your hindu people in kashmir who are being persecuted, that is if you have any spine instead of being a coward and Bs all the time.

Economy? Ha, Chinese people get things done and work collectively. While you're still a 3rd world country.

And your army? Don't forget you were beaten and humiliated by China and you're too spineless to free Tibet. Your army cannot last 2 weeks without foreign arms and supplies.

Let's not forget that if this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ryvs1YuQo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ryvs1YuQo) happened to niranjans mother, sister or gf/wife- he would just sit there and watch the fun like a typical hindu or even quote how great hinduism is

Pathetic

[Jedi]

We don't have to fight, just chant the lord's names and he will protect us.

[Bhaskar]

Enjoy your anger. I hope it makes you very happy.

[Ladylocks]

We don't have to fight, just chant the lord's names and he will protect us
Pathetic

[philuk]

Pathetic
Nothing so good as a well reasoned reply :jester:

[Piney]

Actually I was thinking more of Karma and Dharma towards society and against wrong actions. The average Hindu only thinks about his own community, family and his personal moksha. Nothing else. Whenever Hindus have been treated wrong, the people just accept it while the rest are indifferent. I.E Hindus run away from their homes in Uganda.

The Uganda thing was illustrated in the movie: The last King of Scotland.
fascinating.

One can hardly blame the innocents being rousted by thugs with firearms in Uganda it was ugly class warfare against a group of shopkeepers.

Would prefer to focus on the criminals who are doing the abusing rather than blaming those on the reciving end of the attack.

Equating Christian recruitment with bombings and attacks is not the way to go here.

The good people need to stand together in this world.

[niranjan]

Oh really, is that why you were beaten and humiliated by a handful of muslim bandits and later a british company for the last 1,000 years? And the fact that you were given independence was cuz among a billion indians, there was only one with spine and who the british actually feared i.e bose.

Go help your hindu people in kashmir who are being persecuted, that is if you have any spine instead of being a coward and Bs all the time.

Economy? Ha, Chinese people get things done and work collectively. While you're still a 3rd world country.

And your army? Don't forget you were beaten and humiliated by China and you're too spineless to free Tibet. Your army cannot last 2 weeks without foreign arms and supplies.

Let's not forget that if this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ryvs1YuQo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ryvs1YuQo) happened to niranjans mother, sister or gf/wife- he would just sit there and watch the fun like a typical hindu or even quote how great hinduism is

Pathetic

I think you are saying these stuff with a desire to showcase Bose's achievements, which were indeed not given their proper acknowledgement due to the efforts of politicians and historians biased to Gandhi. Hence I appreciate what you are saying. We are now trying to rectify this great error and mischief.


As for the rest, there are a lot of contradictions. First of all , India has existed for many milleniums, and it was only in the last millenium that she had to suffer defeats and repulses in war to better equipped forces with better strategy and tactics. Some foolish Brahmins, who prevented Indians from travelling to other nations and learning from them , on the assumption that they are barbarians are mainly to blame for this. India had shared her wealth of knowledge and ideas with the world, however she was prevented by imbeciles from profitting herself from other cultures and nations. This marked her downfall.
As Vivekananda himself said" No person or nation can progress without being in contact with other persons or nations. And any person or nation that does so, will only be leading to its downfall. "

And even then , her history of the last thousand years was still marked by incessant wars against the islamic rulers and the british rulers till they were all thrashed.

"Manliness without saintliness is the devils dance. Saintliness without manliness is hypocrisy and humbug." ---- Swami Vivekananda


And this is the reason why many devout but hypocritical hindus , while waxing eloquently on peace and love, does not care a hoot for their suffering brethren in Kashmir.


India is the second fastest growing economy in the world after China. Granted, China is ahead, but an iron dictatorship and lack of freedom is the rule in China, while democracy and freedom is the rule in India. China seem like the hare , which is fast but unstable, while India is more like the tortoise, slow but steady.


The Indian army was indeed defeated by the Chinese due to the incompetent and illogical policies of the pacafist Nehru, and this incident greatly destroyed his and his governments prestige. Nehrus idiocy was that he trusted the chinese so much that he never thought that they will fight against India, and hence he suffered on account of his stupidity.

However to Indias credit, she has defeated comprehensively pakistan in all the four wars she had fought against.
She had, after the chinese betrayal, has given a lot of importance to the building up of military power, and the efforts are showing as I stated in a previous post in this thread.

And indeed, INdia makes much of her weapons, resources and supplies.

No country supplied us the info for making nuclear weapons or ballistic missiles.

[stoney69]

No country supplied us the info for making nuclear weapons or ballistic missiles.allez! with one-sixth of the population sittin there, you need to rely on another country ?

[niranjan]

allez! with one-sixth of the population sittin there, you need to rely on another country ?
Hi stoney69, I guess u don't understand english well. I did say that we built our nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles on our own, and have also self-sufficiency in many sectors.

[stoney69]

don't seem you understand it too well! my point being, with the number of folks on that land ..why would you even think of dependency on another country

[niranjan]

don't seem you understand it too well! my point being, with the number of folks on that land ..why would you even think of dependency on another country

And again I stated that we are indeed selfsufficient in many sectors. Hence where is the need for dependency.

[celina]

It sounds cruel, but Ladylocks makes a good point. I have some Hindu ancestry, and it really bothers me that my forefathers & relatives are so bovine. I believe it stems from their misinterpretation of destiny.

Hindus believe that everything is predestined, which is fine, but they use it as an excuse for sitting on their asses. I have an uncle who is afraid to leave his house unless the stars tell him it's ok. http://hipforums.com/forums/images/icons/newicons/crazy.gif On the other hand, a few like Gandhi & Shivaji (the warrior king) understand that destiny = you must play your part to the best of your abilities. These types are the strong ones, but they are very rare. The fault lies not in the religion but in the culture.
you cant say hindus believe this or that. we all have varying beliefs because we have varying philosophies, hinduism is very diverse. My philosophy doesn't believe in destiny, we make out own destiny. Krishna was a warrior, read the bhagvat gita. He told arjun to fight because it was a time of war and he needed too.

http://www.iskcon.com.au/IMAGES/PHILOSOPHY/BHAGAVAD_GITA/Gita_chariots.jpg

Bhagavad-Gita (http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/)
Bhagavad-gītā As It Is (http://bhagavadgitaasitis.com/)
BHAGAVADGÎTÂ (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe08/index.htm)

[philuk]

don't seem you understand it too well! my point being, with the number of folks on that land ..why would you even think of dependency on another country
The number of people doesnt matter, most advances come from the genius of one or two people. For example the UK is a small country with a tiny population number compared to other countries. But in the past 300 years has been the motherland of more inventions than any other country at a guess, spliting the atom, railways, the computer, television, microwave and telephone being a few. The likes of China has come up with hardly any inventions in the past 500 years and has just copied the west in recent years. Therefore niranjan is completely correct we should all look to other countries for help if they have produced people of genius.

[BlackBillBlake]

Mao Tse Tung was a genius.

Also, the Brits got many basic things from other countries - cotton clothes and personal hygene from India, the idea of paper money from China etc.

However, I'd have to agree that overall the Brits were, until recent times, an inventive lot. These days we seem to be in terminal decline.

Maybe the roast beef has something to do with it......

[philuk]

I was just commenting on the past 200 years really Bill. The problem is we never take advanatage of the things we create. It was a Brit who invented the World Wide Web, but of course he now lives in the US and pretty much all his work contributes to their economy. This has happened again and again in the past 50 years. In looks like we are in decline, not in ideas or genius imo, but in the willingness to take advantage of it.

[BlackBillBlake]

Ha - my dad used to say 'the British invent it, the Americans develop it, and Japanese mass produce it for half the price'.....I think he was onto something there.

[Brother Joseph]

The number of people doesnt matter, most advances come from the genius of one or two people. For example the UK is a small country with a tiny population number compared to other countries. But in the past 300 years has been the motherland of more inventions than any other country at a guess, spliting the atom, railways, the computer, television, microwave and telephone being a few....Hey, all that stuff happened here in the Colonies!

[niranjan]

Asia indeed did contribute a lot to science and technology.



Indian mathematics were the foundation of western science and technology.



As Albert Einstein himself said ,"We have to be grateful to the Indians for teaching us how to count without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made. "

If it were not for the advent of Indian mathematics in Europe , Europe would still would have been living in the Dark Ages.

Similarly, Francis Bacon himself in his essays, had creditted China with teaching europe about gunpowder, the compass and paper, all of which revolutionised europe for the better.

[philuk]

wiki states,

India is widely recognised for its four great inventions in mathematics which have greatly shaped the modern world and without which mathematics wouldn't have come very far as the American historian Will Durant said "India was the mother of our philosophy... of much of our mathematics."

The four great inventions are:
Invention of Zero
Invention of the Hindu-Arabic numeral system
Invention of the Binary numeral system
Invention of the Decimal system

Mathematical Discoveries/Inventions and Conceptual Inventions

First known precise celestial calculations by Aryabhata
Earliest known work on Linguistics by Panini
The first detailed works on Algebra by Aryabhata, Brahmagupta and Bhāskara
The first known mention of the Fibonacci sequence by Pingala
The earliest attempt to exaplin gravity
Trigonometry
Determining that the Sun is a star
Determining the number of planets in the Solar System
First mention of the concept of Heliocentrism by Yajnavalkya in Shatapatha Brahmana
The concept of the Atom
Democracy as the Greeks
Discovering that the a year has 365 1/4 days
Discovered that the earth is round
The earth revolves around the sun
First to calculate the diameter of the earth
First to calculate the diameter of the moon

[philuk]

of china it states,


China is a country where many inventions made its first appearance. The inventions which made their first appearance in China are listed below (for further information, refer to Table 56 of pages 176-180 in Needham's Volume 4 Part 2, Science and Civilization in China).

Paper money
Battens in sails
Belt drive
Blast furnace
The cannon
Cast iron
Chain drive
Chinese cuisine: Tofu, Noodles, Ramen
Chinese clothing: Qipao, Hanfu
Chopsticks
Bituminous coke for the iron and steel industry
Compass
Crossbow, Repeating crossbow
Escapement mechanism for clocks
Exploding cannonball
Fire Arrow
Gunpowder
Firearm
Horse collar
Hull compartments/bulkheads
Kite
Land mines
Matches
Naval mines
Paper
Pendulum (Zhang Heng)
Pound lock
Printing (woodblock printing and movable type)
Rockets: Fire Arrow, Multistage rocket
Rotary fan
Rudder
Sailing carriage
Seismometer (of Zhang Heng)
Silk
South Pointing Chariot (differential gear, of Ma Jun)
Sluice gates
Toilet paper
Traditional Chinese medicine
Trebuchet (traction)
Trip hammer
Winnowing machine

[Jedi]

Bah, it does not matter who invented what, and where. What matters is what you do with yourself in this life. Are you going to just sit there talking about the past inventions, feeding the Indian ego or the british ego? or are you going to look within yourself? See what needs changing in order to live without fear, without procrastination, full of compassion and in full bliss.
What is britain? if it is not a concept? I was in london last week, funny, it didn't look much different from USA. The same with India now, the ground looks the same as it did in USA.
This may come as a surprise to you all, but I will tell you one simple thing which may seem completely crazy to most of you sane people .
What we think we know about this world is pure imagination created within our minds. The real nature, the real world is independent of it. People go crazy when they see a diamond, but they throw away the coal. Ha! fools don't even know that the difference between diamond and coal is an illusion, both are carbon.

[niranjan]

Bah, it does not matter who invented what, and where. What matters is what you do with yourself in this life. Are you going to just sit there talking about the past inventions, feeding the Indian ego or the british ego? or are you going to look within yourself? See what needs changing in order to live without fear, without procrastination, full of compassion and in full bliss.
What is britain? if it is not a concept? I was in london last week, funny, it didn't look much different from USA. The same with India now, the ground looks the same as it did in USA.
This may come as a surprise to you all, but I will tell you one simple thing which may seem completely crazy to most of you sane people .
What we think we know about this world is pure imagination created within our minds. The real nature, the real world is independent of it. People go crazy when they see a diamond, but they throw away the coal. Ha! fools don't even know that the difference between diamond and coal is an illusion, both are carbon.
I don't think we are feeding anyones ego. We are only discussing the vital contributions made by various civilizations to the overall spiritual and material progress of the world. I think it is a good thing, as it creates an atmosphere of universality.

[jbader]

Hello everyone. Just thought I'd join in.

We cannot forget that every nation has its great strengths and great challenges - it doesn't matter where you live, human nature is the same everywhere.

Does India not stand up for herself? I don't know - it depends on your measure. Shivaji resisted the Moghels with the sword and was victorious. Gandhiji resisted the British with the heart. He alone among so many millions resisted his opponent with all his heart without forgetting that those he was fighting against were also God - part of the same divine ocean. Out of devotion to God he preferred to accept violence onto himself instead of inflicting it on others, while actively resisting the occupation. That is the greatest strength. So rare is that strength that few people or nations have the courage to practice it even now.

All I know is that India is still standing after 5,000 years. Does she have great problems - of course - I have seen them with my own eyes and breaks my heart. But my own America has enormous problems too despite great strengths - I have also seen these with my own eyes. Every nation has its problems because each one of us has problems, great selfishness, huge egos, base desires, narrow identifications. The ingredients for a perfect stew of trouble. As long as we continue to eat from that stew we'll continue to have gas!

India is such a diverse nation - I've never seen greater diversity anywhere and that naturally generates difficulties - but that diversity is also part of her great charm and appeal to me. Does the caste system and poverty persist? Of course, but strides are being made. Poverty and racism also exist in America and similar flavors of ignorance in other counties. It is human nature to create divisions but Hinduism reminds us all that these differences are superficial, in fact, illusory.

Despite huge and real challenges India has so many people of enormous and genuine spirituality. I personally have never been so profoundly welcomed, nor felt such warmth and friendliness and community as during my visits there. While there is sometimes spiritual intolerance, nowhere have I also seen more people of real spiritual tolerance and vision, nor found such towering spiritual personalities.

Could she do better? Of course! Which nation can't do more? But isn't the first battle within ourselves - rather than between ourselves?