Open relationships?

[hopelessgayromantic]

OK i am just wondering me and my bf are in love with eachother, i told him since we live like a while apart we could have an open relationship. he told me he wouldnt take advantage of that, and that if he ever did or had any thoughts that he would tell me. he said he would never ever cheat on me. MY QUESTION IS ARE OPEN RELATIONSHIPS OK? i dont want any advice on my relationship, i love him and him me dont do that!

[Snowdancer]

Open relationships can work as long as everyone is secure in themselves enough to share their partner in that way. I would say that it takes a special kind of person to do this. If either partner is the jealous type it could lead to problems.

[SkeeterVT]

Open relationships can work as long as everyone is secure in themselves enough to share their partner in that way. I would say that it takes a special kind of person to do this. If either partner is the jealous type it could lead to problems.Agreed. I'm in a long-distance open relationship that will turn 20 years old in July. I'm bi and my BF's gay. But we both knew from the very beginning that strict monogamy was out of the question, since 1) we live on opposite sides of the U.S.-Canada border and the immigration laws of both countries precluded us from living together, 2) we're both very strong-willed Aries men who are like Felix and Oscar -- we'd end up driving each other crazy if we lived together, 3) we have a mutual friend with whom we're both intimate and 4) being bisexual, I'd go bonkers if I couldn't enjoy my hetero side.

The important thing in an open relationship is HONESTY, TRUST and OPEN COMMUNICATION. No relationship can survive without it. This is especially true with same-sex male couples, because strict monogamy is alien to many, if not most, gay and bisexual men (Which, by the way, is the reason why a two-thirds majority of same-sex couples who have married or obtained a civil union have, to date, been lesbian couples).

-- Skeeter

[hopelessgayromantic]

well we dont live that far apart i mean i can see him, and its worth while traviling like 25miles to see him. either way i know i dont want to be with or date anyone besides him, i really do love him. i told him that if he wants to have two boyfriends i am ok with it, i mean i am not the jealous type at all. and besides i know that if he was with someone else its because i am not there, because i keep my man satifisfied ya know. he definitly keeps me satisfied! lol, but yeah thanks for that i know he wont cheat on me we completly trust each other, and things are great but i want him to have that option, so if he does something with someone else its not cheating. thanks for your input keep writing and i love my guy, hes probably the best lover i have ever had and we are going to be together for a while!

[wild_about_hippies]

hey its me again .... you are the most sweetest guy my friend could ever have.... i sooo need to meet you! lol you need to talk with murray about that lol and if you want i can keep an eye on him and make sure that he doesnt do anything and most importantly doesnt do anything without you knowing.... so if you want me too then just let me kno.... but i dont think you will have to worry about him cheating on you because he seems really dedicated to you and im pretty sure he loves you too accually im certain! by the way he sent me pictures of you and you are very cute! but it was you with blonde hair... well ill talk to you soon! keep in contact please!
~Later~

[carebears]

yeah we definitly had fun last night lol, and dont worry i would never cheat on you ever i love you and i dont cheat on anyone thats just not me. i would either tell you or break up before i did something, but thats not going to happen i really do love you! and last night made me love you more lol! and i loved this morning i had fun! and yeah you might have to meet morgan, i am not sure how we can plan that ... but i want you to meet her. and during summer we definitly have to plan a vacation! lol! and i am glad you family likes me too. so yeah morgan talk later and trent i will talk to you in a bit you are so sexy! lol! bye!

[carebears]

and morgan i thought you were bi? what happend? and if you were bi for mark couldnt you find another guy that could make you feel that way?

[jungee]

This is especially true with same-sex male couples, because strict monogamy is alien to many, if not most, gay and bisexual men (Which, by the way, is the reason why a two-thirds majority of same-sex couples who have married or obtained a civil union have, to date, been lesbian couples).

-- Skeeter
Maybe monogamy is "alien" to many gay and bi men because there aren't models of male couples in the culture? and also boys are not raised to engage themselves emotionally, so maybe it's tougher for them to commit? I'm sure gay men suffer from not being able to find stability and wished for different models than open relationships. That's just my opinion..

[SkeeterVT]

Maybe monogamy is "alien" to many gay and bi men because there aren't models of male couples in the culture? and also boys are not raised to engage themselves emotionally, so maybe it's tougher for them to commit? I'm sure gay men suffer from not being able to find stability and wished for different models than open relationships. That's just my opinion..No. Monogamy is alien to many gay and bisexual men because men in general are "hard-wired" by Nature to be polyamorous. Even among many heterosexual men, monogamy doesn't work. And to expect bisexual men, in particular, to be monogamous is to be out of touch with reality, in my opinion.

It took me 20 years to come to this realization. Today, I'm out of both the bi and polyamory closets.

Look at the divorce statistics: Most of the divorces for "infidelity" involves the male partner not limiting himself to his betrothed companion.

In my opinion, it is futile for society to put so much pressure on human beings to be something they, by Nature, are not.

-- Skeeter

[Ann-Akim]

just creepy....

[mrpiddleslives]

in my opinion they only last for so long.....eventually someone ends up getting hurt. but they can be fun while they last

[frigginsane]

Yeah, so, Hopeless, I know how you feel, I'm in the same boat. I'm lucky because my boyfriend and I are really close and have a strong bond. We have both admitted we both are attracted to many different people, both male and female, and both know that at the end of the day, we're coming back to each other because we have something stronger than a casual friendship or attraction. We have a really good relationship, especially considering we're only sixteen. But yeah, lately, my homo side has been really driving me NUTS. It doesn't help that I don't get a lot of alone time with my bf, and that I have a bi female best friend who is okay with having casual makeout sessions...I'm an extremely physical person (but only with people who I have a bond with) and it's really driving me nuts. GAHHHHH! But it's awesome that we can accept the fact that we have human nature and still love each other, in my opinion.

[Disarm]

No. Monogamy is alien to many gay and bisexual men because men in general are "hard-wired" by Nature to be polyamorous. Even among many heterosexual men, monogamy doesn't work. And to expect bisexual men, in particular, to be monogamous is to be out of touch with reality, in my opinion.

It took me 20 years to come to this realization. Today, I'm out of both the bi and polyamory closets.

Look at the divorce statistics: Most of the divorces for "infidelity" involves the male partner not limiting himself to his betrothed companion.

In my opinion, it is futile for society to put so much pressure on human beings to be something they, by Nature, are not.

-- Skeeter Please watch what you say.. That's pretty offensive, at least to me. What makes a gay man different from a straight man other than the obvious? Because what you said was that gay men are MORE polyamorous than straight men are..

Which would make no sense logically anyway, because the theory you are referring to is that men find it harder to stick to one relationship because they are 'hard wired' by nature to reproduce with as many women as possible...

Unless, of course, all gay men are deluded into thinking that if they have sex with another man, one of them may get pregnant, the theory doesnt add up to what you said anyway.

I understand what you say by men being polyamorous, and it is somewhat backed up by scientific observation, but the idea that a gay or bisexual is more prone to try and reproduce with as many people as possible doesn't quite add up. Further, it is generally accepted that other factors (such as the way we are brought up) override this- nowadays most men are far more focussed on finding one person to love than to copulate with everyone they see.

[SageDreamer]

well we dont live that far apart i mean i can see him, and its worth while traviling like 25miles to see him. either way i know i dont want to be with or date anyone besides him, i really do love him. i told him that if he wants to have two boyfriends i am ok with it, i mean i am not the jealous type at all. and besides i know that if he was with someone else its because i am not there, because i keep my man satifisfied ya know. he definitly keeps me satisfied! lol, but yeah thanks for that i know he wont cheat on me we completly trust each other, and things are great but i want him to have that option, so if he does something with someone else its not cheating. thanks for your input keep writing and i love my guy, hes probably the best lover i have ever had and we are going to be together for a while!
Hopelessgayromantic, you say that if he wants to have two boyfriends, you are OK with it.


You also say that you know he won't cheat on you. For many of us, having two boyfriends certainly sounds like he's cheating on somebody. You need to be very clear with yourself and with him what counts as cheating and what doesn't.

There are lots of gay men who have said it's OK for their partners to sleep with other people, lots of situations like "I said it was OK to sleep with other men, but I didn't mean that it was OK to sleep with my ex/my brother/my best friend/that guy I know who stole my last boyfriend/etc., etc., etc.

Polyamory doesn't work well for me, but I suspect that it works for some people who do a lot of talking about what is OK and what is not OK and get very, very, very, very specific...so much so that it can be a drag to talk it all out. There are people who honestly and sincerely believe that they're not jealous who are quite capable of some intense jealousy.

I've learned to be careful about what I wish for.

I am only speaking for myself, but I am essentially a monogamous guy who is happiest and functions best with one partner. I'm not saying I don't believe that there will be some slips along the way. I see fidelity as an ideal much as I see no children going to bed hungry as an ideal. It might not always happen exactly as I want it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't try for what comes as close to it as possible.

[Duncan]

Polyamory doesn't work for me either. Finding one person with whom you can be in synch for more than 60-65% of your time together is tough enough. Having a toy on the side does--in my opinion--diminish the nature and value of the primary relationship.

Oh, and by the way, I have known and do currently have people in my life in which one partner is HIV+ and the other is not. When the relationship began, both were negative. If that in and of itself isn't a reason to stick with one person at a time, I don't know what is!

[SkeeterVT]

Please watch what you say.. That's pretty offensive, at least to me. What makes a gay man different from a straight man other than the obvious? Because what you said was that gay men are MORE polyamorous than straight men are..

Which would make no sense logically anyway, because the theory you are referring to is that men find it harder to stick to one relationship because they are 'hard wired' by nature to reproduce with as many women as possible...

Unless, of course, all gay men are deluded into thinking that if they have sex with another man, one of them may get pregnant, the theory doesnt add up to what you said anyway.

I understand what you say by men being polyamorous, and it is somewhat backed up by scientific observation, but the idea that a gay or bisexual is more prone to try and reproduce with as many people as possible doesn't quite add up. Further, it is generally accepted that other factors (such as the way we are brought up) override this- nowadays most men are far more focussed on finding one person to love than to copulate with everyone they see.I could write an entire book about this, but the fact is, gay men -- especially those under 40 years of age -- are indeed more likely to be polyamorous than straight men, in part PRECISELY because they don't have to worry about being confronted by the two words that strike terror in the hearts of many straight men: "I'm pregnant!"

In fact, such a book already exists: "American Couples: Money, Work, Sex" By Drs. Peter Blumstein and Pepper Schwartz. This 1980 volume is the end result of a year-long research project on relationships by Blumstein and Schwartz.

The authors grouped four types of couples: unmarried heterosexuals, married heterosexuals, gay men and lesbians. The study found that lesbian couples were by far the most monogamous and gay men by far the least monogamous.

Among the heterosexual couples surveyed by Blumstein and Schwartz, the male partners -- both married and unmarried -- were found to be more likely to have outside relationships than the female partners.

The researchers, unfortunately, did not include bisexuals in their study. As a bi male myself, I know that strict monogamy absolutely does not and cannot work for me, for it would force me to feed one side of my sexuality while starving the other side. That's unacceptable to me.

I'm sorry that you were offended, but sometimes the truth hurts. The evidence is overwhelming that despite millennia of societal and religious taboos against it, men are indeed polyamorous by Nature, whether they consciously know it or not.

The time is long overdue for men AND women to acknowledge this -- and deal with it.


-- Skeeter

[hopelessgayromantic]

well i dont really care if he sleeps with someone else as long as hes safe, i love him and he could sleep with my brother for all he wants ... well maybe not lol, but at the end of the day if he comes back to me then i still love him and i want him to be happy. and me and him are completely honest with eachother, at least i am and he tells me everything and i just moved from texas so my exs are far away and i have talked to his exs and they are all cool and hes friends with all of them .. so even if we break up then we will be friends. i love him and he loves me and he makes it clear everytime we are together. we arent just having a fling we mean alot to eachother, and yeah thanks for your input, my entire immeadiate family loves him! so everythings cool! so yeah later guys and gals!

[hopelessgayromantic]

and we discussed it and he said he doesnt think he wants to do that after he spent the night, he told me he loves and he doesnt even want to think about other people. i want to take care of him and hold him, and love him and i dont think we need an open relationship, i love him so much i sent him a letter telling him 100 reasons why i love him! and it took like ten minutes i love him for so many reasons and i dont think i could break up with him even if he cheated on me! i love him way too much!

[jungee]

No. Monogamy is alien to many gay and bisexual men because men in general are "hard-wired" by Nature to be polyamorous. Even among many heterosexual men, monogamy doesn't work. And to expect bisexual men, in particular, to be monogamous is to be out of touch with reality, in my opinion.
"By nature" ? Didn't they say women were less intelligent by nature a few centuries ago? Besides to prove this point, we'd have to demonstrate that men are polyamourous in every culture, which is not the case from my casual observation. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but in chinese cultures couples are very monogamous and men stick to their wives much more than in western culture. Plus I would not underestimate the ideas that are vehiculated that if a guy does not screw everything that moves he is "missing out" to explain why guy feel the need to spread their seeds..
Look at the divorce statistics: Most of the divorces for "infidelity" involves the male partner not limiting himself to his betrothed companion. Statistics are saying that women are catching up in the cheating department.
In my opinion, it is futile for society to put so much pressure on human beings to be something they, by Nature, are not.
That's your opinion I guess, but saying men -gay or otherwise- cannot aspire for monogamy and find happiness in it is selling them short.

Just my 2 cents

[Disarm]

Skeeter, I searched 5 different international databases, which essentially gives me access to nearly every medical/science journal which has been put into electronic text, and I did not find that study, or in fact anything on either of the two authors. Could you please give me a source of this information, or the year of the study, (because it is completely inconcievable that two respected psychologists had done such a groundbreaking study without any mention whatsoever in the majority of medical journals internationally). I'm not doubting you or anything, I just want to read their study.

[SkeeterVT]

Skeeter, I searched 5 different international databases, which essentially gives me access to nearly every medical/science journal which has been put into electronic text, and I did not find that study, or in fact anything on either of the two authors. Could you please give me a source of this information, or the year of the study, (because it is completely inconcievable that two respected psychologists had done such a groundbreaking study without any mention whatsoever in the majority of medical journals internationally). I'm not doubting you or anything, I just want to read their study.
I did a Google search and was able to come up with the following:

Blumstein, P. & Schwartz, P. (1983). American Couples: Money, Work, Sex. New York. Publisher: William Morrow.
Extensive research study that examined the relationships of lesbian, gay men, and heterosexual couples. Expectations for the couples, day-to-day living arrangements, and values of the couples are examples of some of the study questions.

Apparently, the book is out of print. I'm not surprised -- It was highly controversial when it was published, for the findings on gay male couples came out just as the AIDS epidemic exploded onto the public consciousness. I'll keep digging.

-- Skeeter

[happenstance]

It depends on the context, but open relationships can be very reasonable. As long as both people involved have a mutual consent as to what is and is not appropiate, everything should be fine. It just takes a hell of a lot of communication and even more patience and understanding. You may even find that you have deeper feelings for your partner than you had previously been aware of by realizing just how little other people seem to interest you the way your partner does.

It is inevitable that you'll encounter someone of whom you fancy other than your partner and knowing what is and is not okay in your relationship with them makes everything that much more managable in those types of situations.

I cannot comprehend why anyone would want to end a meaningful relationship because of something as basic and primal as lust. It just seems nonsensical to me. I suppose some people just have difficulty dividing superficial attraction with profound adoration. I think cheating only truly occurs when there are feelings involved and the other person is oblivious to the details.

In any case, best of luck with everything!

:)

[Disarm]

I did a Google search and was able to come up with the following:

Blumstein, P. & Schwartz, P. (1983). American Couples: Money, Work, Sex. New York. Publisher: William Morrow.
Extensive research study that examined the relationships of lesbian, gay men, and heterosexual couples. Expectations for the couples, day-to-day living arrangements, and values of the couples are examples of some of the study questions.

Apparently, the book is out of print. I'm not surprised -- It was highly controversial when it was published, for the findings on gay male couples came out just as the AIDS epidemic exploded onto the public consciousness. I'll keep digging.

-- Skeeter

Whenever a psychologist, or any scientific researcher for that matter, completes a study, they are obliged/expected to present their findings, along with a report on how the study was carried out etc., to the appropriate community. Hence it should appear in a journal, or at least be referred to by another researcher with a link to it. I'm not looking for a book but this report.

[SkeeterVT]

Whenever a psychologist, or any scientific researcher for that matter, completes a study, they are obliged/expected to present their findings, along with a report on how the study was carried out etc., to the appropriate community. Hence it should appear in a journal, or at least be referred to by another researcher with a link to it. I'm not looking for a book but this report.
I'm afraid I can't help you there.

-- Skeeter

[Disarm]

Then no offense but I'm not going to believe that study for a second- it will have been totally discredited. Especially considering they wrote a book instead of a report. Its just senstationalised literature, not a scientific study.

[SkeeterVT]

Then no offense but I'm not going to believe that study for a second- it will have been totally discredited. Especially considering they wrote a book instead of a report. Its just senstationalised literature, not a scientific study.It's your perogative to reject the authors' findings on gay men's relationships, but it is not for you to say that "American Couples: Money, Work, Sex" is totally discredited, as 1) you have no evidence to prove it and 2) you're not male and therefore cannot possibly know first-hand the experiences of gay and bi men unless you conduct a study of your own.

On the other hand, as an openly bi man who has 30-plus years of personal experience in interacting with gay men, I can say without fear of contradiction that the findings are dead-on accurate.

Which is why I said in an earlier posting that I could write my own book on this subject. The one difference is that my book would be a personal memoir.

-- Skeeter

[jungee]

I cannot comprehend why anyone would want to end a meaningful relationship because of something as basic and primal as lust. It just seems nonsensical to me. I suppose some people just have difficulty dividing superficial attraction with profound adoration. I think cheating only truly occurs when there are feelings involved and the other person is oblivious to the details.
Yes open relationships can be reasonable, if both partners enter in it knowing all their options and the risks involved

But what you mean by not understanding why anyone would want to end a meaningful relationship because of lust? Do you the only meaningful part of the relationship are the "feelings" involved? Who decides that and why?

If lust is so primal and besides the point, why can't it be contained - or let me rephrase it : why do defenders of open relationship purposedly nourish that lust by gaining new partners all the time?

It doesn't seem that meaningless anymore, described this way :rolleyes:

I just think people are not very honest when it comes to the importance they give to sex in their lives. It's only the body, yet that body seems to need a constant new burn. Let's try the same with feelings, and see if it sits well with anyone "it's only my feelings, I'll fall in love with them but you know I'll return to you".