Cannabis?

[Shaman420]

I was wondering if anyone knows what the Hindu belief on the use of Cannabis Sativa/Indica is? And also if they had a belief on the use of psilocybin mushrooms? Also is their a ritual for the use of these substances if they are permitted?

[BlackBillBlake]

Two very different attitudes. Cannabis is used by some Sadhus(holy men) in India, but it is not encouraged for people in general. I believe that it's associated with the god Shiva. That's about all I can tell you on that.


Mushrooms are forbidden as a food to most Hindus, and I don't know if there is much use of psychoactive ones - but a friend of mine told me he had psilocybin mushrooms in northern india, so they're obviously known about.
But in this context, see the work of Gordon Wason, who concluded that Amanita Muscaria was the origin of the Soma mentioned in the Veda, and also 'Food of the Gods' by Terrence Mckenna, who dismisses Amanita as a candidate for Soma, but thinks it might have been a type of Psilocybin mushroom. He argues that during the Indus Valley civilization period, mushrooms were used, but at a later time, there were changes of attitude - from eating meat, and beef at that, to vegitarianism, and sacred cows - and mushrooms came to be frowned upon.
It all seems a bit speculative and inconclusive to me.

[Jedi]

I was wondering if anyone knows what the Hindu belief on the use of Cannabis Sativa/Indica is? And also if they had a belief on the use of psilocybin mushrooms? Also is their a ritual for the use of these substances if they are permitted?
Vaishnavas- worshippers of Vishnu, do not use anything that may pollute our bodies and do not support the use of any polluting agent to fulfill our desires. Your body is not your own, it belongs to God, so treat it with respect- as his temple... so do not smoke cannibis and abuse the house of God, you may very well be kicked out sooner than you can imagine.

[Jedi]

but at a later time, there were changes of attitude - from eating meat, and beef at that, to vegitarianism, and sacred cows - and mushrooms came to be frowned upon.
It all seems a bit speculative and inconclusive to me.I am not an expert but I think the switch to vegetarianism came about with the rise of buddhism in India. Also, I think Vaishnavism also became very popular at that time. Cows are considered sacred because they are the symbols of krishna.

[StonerBill]

and the shrooms grown in their shit

[BlackBillBlake]

and the shrooms grown in their shit
The ones here in England, Psilocybe Semalinceata, don't grow on dung, but in the soil. But they're probably more common on cow pasture, although they also grow on heath land, sheep pasture and even sports fields.

Not much relevance to use in India, but thought I'd mention it.

[eleria]

There is a huge diversity of believes and rituals under the umbrella of Hinduism and you can't generally say what Hinduism sais about this or that.
The followers of Shiva are smoking cannabis for ritual purposes and to call upon and honour their god. Some Sadhus (holy men) do that on a daily basis, other followewrs only do it on certain occasions, especially on Shivarati, which is a holy day to honour and celebrate Shiva.
Followers of Shiva also use other so called drugs in their celebrations, for example datura and opium.
I have been participating in festiveties in northern India, where we were drinking a brew which contained cannabis and opium and also have been given blessed datura seeds for eating during Shivarati celebrations.
If you are a follower of Shiva there speaks nothing against the use of cannabis, as long as you don't abuse it to simply get stoned, but use it with respect and as a means to honour and get in closer contact with the deity.

[Bhaskar]

Not all followers of shiva do this, in fact it is a minority.

[philuk]

didnt the buddha eat one hemp seed a day ?

[tiki_god7]

from the books I've read of holy men or by saints or yogi's or what have you; I've come to understand that god not really concerned with what it takes to love god, as long as you love him completely, so if someone has to smoke pot or eat mushrooms to find gods love, as long as they find it and keep loving then its all irrelevent

of course to go all the way the desire for pot or mushrooms will have to go

[eleria]

didnt the buddha eat one hemp seed a day ? I don't know if he did, but eating hemp seeds doesn't make you high.
In northern India, where cannabis grows wild, people collect the seeds and use them in their food. Especially old people like them in wintertime. They make you feel warm inside and are said to be good for the joints.
Here in Sweden and also in Germany (don't know about other countries) you can buy hemp seeds and hemp seed oil in the healthfood shops. I have some friends that drink a small glass of hemp seed oil every day, it contains a lot of Linoleic acid and linolenic acid (essential fatty acids) and is supposed to be very healthy.
Hemp Seed: The most nutritionally complete food source in the world (http://www.ratical.org/renewables/hempseed2.html)

[BlackBillBlake]

This is from the 'Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali' ch.4 vs 1. (Isherwood Prabhavananda translation)


"The Psychic powers may be obtained either by birth, by means of drugs, or by the power of words, or by the practice of austerities, or by concentration"

Isherwood and Prabhavananda comment 'certain drugs may produce visions, but these are invariably psychic - not spiritual, as is commonly believed. Furthermore, they may cause prolonged spiritual dryness and may even do permanant damage to the brain'

But I wonder if either of them had any actual experience with these substances? If not, it's hard to see how their conclusions could be valid.
Certainly, there is no truth whatsoever in their claim that psychedelic drugs (ie indole ring psychedelics such as LSD or psilocybin) damage the brain physically.

[Jedi]

from the books I've read of holy men or by saints or yogi's or what have you; I've come to understand that god not really concerned with what it takes to love god, as long as you love him completely, so if someone has to smoke pot or eat mushrooms to find gods love, as long as they find it and keep loving then its all irrelevent

of course to go all the way the desire for pot or mushrooms will have to gothats ridiculous! God does not need artificial love! all of the "take the drug and love the God" is maya.

[Chodpa]

Weed is the fruit of the Earth - of the Body of Bhuvaneshwaraya for the pains of a harsh existance. If weed makes one feel better in their skin then so be it. The Divine Mother says go ahead and smoke of Her body. That's why it's there. If you are afraid, then merely be afraid of the police, or of the effect of too much smoking on your vital organs, but don't be afraid that the Goddess will stop loving you. As for fearful Vaishnavas. Don't worry about them. The Earth and Her splendor is for all beings. All of them, and somewhere within her you will find your place.

[BlackBillBlake]

Weed is the fruit of the Earth - of the Body of Bhuvaneshwaraya for the pains of a harsh existance. If weed makes one feel better in their skin then so be it. The Divine Mother says go ahead and smoke of Her body. That's why it's there. If you are afraid, then merely be afraid of the police, or of the effect of too much smoking on your vital organs, but don't be afraid that the Goddess will stop loving you. As for fearful Vaishnavas. Don't worry about them. The Earth and Her splendor is for all beings. All of them, and somewhere within her you will find your place.
A true Vaishnava fears nothing.

[tiki_god7]

thats ridiculous! God does not need artificial love! all of the "take the drug and love the God" is maya.
I don't see how its artificial, I mean pot is God.....
I don't see how smoking a joint and opening yourself to god is any different then using tantra sex to open yourself to god
two different vehicles from the same source taking you to the same source

I mean isn't arriving at god the ultimate goal and the trip is just a means for getting there?

[The Chemical Comrade]

The Earth and Her splendor is for all beings.

I vote yes, and we ought to agree to disagree.

Peacefully, mind.

Our differences is what makes us beautiful, not our sameness.

[BlackBillBlake]

I don't see how its artificial, I mean pot is God.....
I don't see how smoking a joint and opening yourself to god is any different then using tantra sex to open yourself to god
two different vehicles from the same source taking you to the same source

I mean isn't arriving at god the ultimate goal and the trip is just a means for getting there?
I have serious doubts about this whole business of tantric sex, sex magick etc. I don't really think it is a path to God.

[Kharakov]

I have serious doubts about this whole business of tantric sex, sex magick etc. I don't really think it is a path to God.All roads lead to Rome. Some are more direct than others.

[Bhaskar]

God is not a destination separate from the traveler or the road.

[BlackBillBlake]

God is not a destination separate from the traveler or the road.
OK - I'll re-phrase my response. It's not a real method through which our oneness with the Divine can be truly realized.
This refering to 'paths' is only a metaphor obviously.

[philuk]

God is not a destination separate from the traveler or the road.
Is there a traveler or road ?

[Jedi]

I don't see how its artificial, I mean pot is God.....
I don't see how smoking a joint and opening yourself to god is any different then using tantra sex to open yourself to god
two different vehicles from the same source taking you to the same source

I mean isn't arriving at god the ultimate goal and the trip is just a means for getting there?No! God is Sattvic, pure and untainted by the worldly materialism. He is not reached by artificial means like drugs , alcohol or anything like that. He is reached with love and to love God you need to be completely sore. You have to be free of alcohol, free of drugs, free of sex desire, free of everything. If we are not free, we are bound and we ask God to free us and we do that by turning sattvic, not deluding ourselves with tamasic qualities.

Shastra is what needs to be followed not some one's whims , you cannot reach God by deluding yourself with worldly things, we have to strive to depend on God and dharma (duty). There are set paths to love God like karma yoga- love God through your actions... these are all described to us in Bhagavad Gita and other scriptures - which are then explained by great saints like Shankaracharya , Ramanuja and Madvacharya. You can't just act on your whims.

[Jedi]

I have serious doubts about this whole business of tantric sex, sex magick etc. I don't really think it is a path to God.Poor souls delude themselves... I think those things were first established to get free of sex desire or to control it in some way... I guess later on , people who decided to go on these paths wanted to enjoy sex more than they desired to be free from it. Its nothing more than a way to find more pleasure from the senses, I don't think it has anything to do with spirituality or the divine.

[Jedi]

Our differences is what makes us beautiful, not our sameness.
If such differences are based in knowledge then they are beautiful, anything based in ignorance and stupidity whether "differences or sameness" is very ugly.

[philuk]

If we are not free, we are bound and we ask God to free us and we do that by turning sattvic, not deluding ourselves with tamasic qualities.
Turning sattvic or tamasic is just another mental prison. Liberation can contain no labels.

[Jedi]

Turning sattvic or tamasic is just another mental prison. Liberation can contain no labels.
No, we have to turn sattvic before actually becoming liberated.

[Bhaskar]

In Hamsa Geeta, Sri Krishna's teaching to Sanatakumars, he explains that all three gunas, sattva, rajas and tamas, are colors of the mind, which need to be removed. By rajas, we conquer tamas and by sattva we conquer rajas. When the mind is rid of rajas and tamas, and becomes purely sattvic, then that sattva also sublimates and the mind is free from all conditioning. The example Sri Krishna gives is of the forest fire. The trees of rajas and tamas are burnt down by the forest fire of sattva, which then extinguishes itself.

[philuk]

ah sorry jedi, I was thinking it was something different. Yes your correct.

[Jedi]

:) thats okay...haha. :D

[BlackBillBlake]

“The gunas cannot really reach where Brahman abides. They are like robbers who cannot go out in the open. They are afraid lest they should be arrested. Sattva, rajas and tamas all the three gunas are robbers. Let me tell you a story:

“Once a man was going through a forest when three robbers came and caught hold of him. They robbed him of all he possessed. One of the robbers said, ‘Why keep this man alive now?’ Saying so, he came forward with a sword to hack him. The second robber then said, ‘No brother, what use killing him? Let us tie his hands and feet and leave him here.’ Then tying his hands and feet the robbers left him there and went away. After a while one of them returned and said, ‘Ah! you are suffering a lot! Let me free you from the knots.’ Untying his bonds he said, ‘Come with me, I will take you to the main road.’ After a long time when they reached the main road, the robber said, ‘Take this road. See that is your house.’ This man then said to the robber, ‘Sir, you have been very good to me. Please come with me to my house.’ The robber said, ‘No, I cannot go there. The police will come to know of it.’



“The world itself is a forest. In this forest sattva, rajas and tamas all the three gunas are robbers. They rob the jiva of his tattva jnana (spiritual knowledge). Tamoguna destroys the jiva, rajoguna binds him to the world. But the sattvaguna saves him from rajas and tamas. By taking refuge in sattvaguna one is saved from lust, anger and such other evils of tamas. Besides, sattvaguna cuts asunder the bonds of the world also. But even the sattvaguna is a robber, it cannot give the tattva jnana (highest knowledge). However, it puts you on the road to the Supreme Abode. Putting you on the road it says, ‘Just see, this is your house.’ Sattvaguna remains at a great distance from the Brahmajnana.

“What Brahman is cannot be expressed by the word of mouth. He who attains Brahman, cannot give information about Him. There is a saying, ‘The ship never returns once it has reached the black waters.’


Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa.

[philuk]

nice post BlackBillBlake, also like this passage from Nisargadatta Maharaj


In the great mirror of consciousness images arise and disappear and only memory gives them continuity. And memory is material -- destructible, perishable, transient. On such flimsy foundations we build a sense of personal existence -- vague, intermittent, dreamlike. This vague persuasion: 'I-am-so-and-so' obscures the changeless state of pure awareness and makes us believe that we are born to suffer and to die.

[mike]

When I was in india(northern ganges area) I found alot of people were smoking. Smoking what, I don't know but I remember, though it was a long time ago, were sadu's mixing tobacco and weed together and offering it to me. boy, was that a trip to hang out with them. they are truely great and help me aspire to something more withen myself. So they can do what they dam well please and if they want to smoke or break thier arms off
I don't care.
jahbless
mike

[NativeAmericanHippie]

Just a correction of some info. posted earlier by someone...


Vegetarianism came about in India because during the more rural, nomadic, tribal times it wasn't easy to keep meat fresh because of the hot climate of India. So Hinduism just kinda adapted to it. It didn't come about when Buddhism came about. Since Buddhism was based off of Hinduism, it naturally kept certain features of Hinduism.

Now, about the cows. Many Hindus see a cow as a mother because after we stop breast-feeding from our mothers we get our milk from cows. Cows are also thought to embody the Shakti (female spirit, or goddess). The only way that a cow is related to Shiva is that Nandi (the bull) is Shiva's mount, like a horse.