Is Circumcision an Infringement of Male Rights ?

[jungee]

Often times we hear Americans getting upset over the fact that little girls are being sexually mutilated in parts of Africa, which they condemn as a "barbaric practice", yet everyday millions of little boys have perfectly functioning foreskins see parts of their genitalia mutilated without their consent just the same.

Isn't there a contradiction and double-standard there ?

Should a boy have the right to chose whether his penis be cut or not ?

----------
A great article to read in its entirety...I'm pasting bits of it

http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/milos-macris/

Circumcision: A Medical or a Human Rights Issue?
By Marilyn Fayre Milos, RN, and Donna Macris, CNM, MSN 1992

"Abstract
American parents and health care professionals are faced with medical/ethical dilemmas regarding whether or not to respect the natural integrity of the male newborn's body. In the English- speaking countries,, where circumcision of infants was initially adopted to prevent masturbation, medical "reasons" were postulated to justify a practice most of the world has never considered. This resulted in a spectrum of medical recommendations for surgical removal of normal genital tissue in all male newborns to prevent diseases (foreskin inflammation, urinary tract infections, and sexually transmitted diseases) that could be effectively treated medically without the risks of surgery. Only by denying the existence of excruciating pain, perinatal encoding of the brain with violence, interruption of maternal-infant bonding, betrayal of infant trust, the risks and effects of permanently altering normal genitalia, the right of human beings to sexually intact and functional bodies, and the right to individual religious freedoms can human beings continue this practice."

"While some researchers believe that circumcision was practiced as early as 6,000 years ago on the west coast of Africa, the earliest record of circumcision, an Egyptian bas relief, dates back to 2800BC (2). Theories suggest that circumcision was practiced for religious reasons, as a punitive measure, as a puberty or premarital rite, as an absolution against the feared toxic influences of vaginal (hymenal) blood, and as a mark of slavery. Written documentation of circumcision first appears in the Bible. Both Jews and Moslems circumcise in accordance with Abraham's covenant with God (Genesis 17:10), which historians date to 1713 BC (3). Moslems also perform female circumcision (genital mutilation that often includes clitoridectomy), a practice probably of African origin (4)."

"From myth to medicine

Circumcision evolved from a religious ritual or puberty rite into routine surgery for "health" reasons in the English-speaking countries during the nineteenth century when the etiology of most diseases was unknown: "Within the miasma of myth and ignorance, a theory emerged that masturbation caused many and varied ills. It seemed logical to some physicians to perform genital surgery on both sexes to stop masturbation" (5). In 1891, P. C. Remondino, MD, advocated circumcision to prevent or cure alcoholism, epilepsy, asthma, hernia, gout, rheumatism, curvature of the spine and headaches (6). His book was last printed in 1974, the same year that one physician, writing in Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, called the book "pertinent and carefully thought out" (7).

As scientific advancements found legitimate pathologic etiologies for diseases previously believed to be prevented or cured by circumcision, new excuses were adopted to substantiate this elective genital surgery. Since the turn of the century, one excuse after another has been used to perpetuate a practice most of the world has never considered.

Hygiene and prevention of venereal diseases became popular excuses for circumcision during World War I (8, 9). The erroneous fear during the 1930s of foreskins causing penile cancer (10, 11) and during the 1950s of foreskins causing cervical cancer (12-14) helped champion the practice of prophylactic circumcision. The most recent justifications for routine neonatal circumcision of boys include protecting infants from urinary tract infections (UTIs) during the first year of life (15, 16) and decreasing the risk of AIDS in the sexually active male (17). While the American medical community was presenting one pathology after another to support amputation of the foreskin, its European counterpart began to research the normal structure and function of the external male genitalia."

"Informed consent and self-determination for childbearing- childrearing health care were an essential component of the cataclysmic changes brought about by the Women's Movement. American women who had struggled to achieve these rights for themselves were now beginning to consider rights for their babies as well."

"In response to consumer demand for accurate information, the National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers (NOCIRC) was founded in 1985. This organization serves as a clearinghouse for information on all aspects of male and female circumcision. In 1989, NOCIRC sponsored the First International Symposium on Circumcision (ISC), which was held in Anaheim, California. International experts from the diverse fields of cultural anthropology, theology, psychology, medicine, midwifery, law, and ethics gathered to discuss male and female genital mutilations and their human rights implications.

The Declaration of the First ISC was unanimously adopted by the general assembly on March 3, 1989. The first tenets of this declaration read:
We recognize the inherent right of all human beings to an intact body. Without religious or racial prejudice, we affirm this basic human right.

-We recognize the foreskin, clitoris and labia are normal, functional body parts.

-Parents and/or guardians do not have the right to consent to the surgical removal or modification of their children's normal genitalia.

-Physicians and other health-care providers have a responsibility to refuse to remove or mutilate normal body parts.

-The only persons who may consent to medically unnecessary procedures upon themselves are the individuals who have reached the age of consent (adulthood), and then only after being fully informed about the risks and benefits of the procedure.

-We categorically state that circumcision has unrecognized victims.

-The last tenet states:
Physicians who practice routine circumcision are violating the first maxim of medical practice, "PRIMUM NON NOCERE," "First Do No Harm," and anyone practicing genital mutilation is violating Article V of the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights: "NO ONE SHALL BE SUBJECTED TO TORTURE OR TO CRUEL, INHUMAN, OR DEGRADING TREATMENT..." (27)

rest of article.. (http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/milos-macris/)

[LooLoo]

Personally I think guys have the right to choose for themselves. I'm not circumcised and I'm pretty glad about it.


You can always choose to get yourself circumcised later in life but you can't 'uncircumcise' yourself if your parents made the decision for you at birth.

[wintersashes]

I'm really against it being a mandatory thing here. (in the US)

[readicculus]

Very unnatural. A strange practice indeed, as you say, it's "wrong" for it to be done on girls, but here we look upon it as something that is needed.

Anyway I just stumbled across this from the front page, this is a pretty mainstream issue and we should all check it, maybe post it in the sex forum as well?

Seems a lot of people in the community are realizing that it's not the best thing in the world to do when they have children, I think it's an issue we should all think about.

[FunkyPhreshMama]

i didnt have my son done, i see no point in it. i have heard arguments abut it being cleaner but i think its more of a "well, it doesnt look normal". it does look normal, it is natural, and girls wont make fun of him about it, i have also heard that given as a reason to have it done! well.................. if you teach your child to wash his self properly he wont have any problems.

[seamonster66]

NOT this again!

[makno]

and now.... all over again..... the forskin mafia , and related penis gang wars !!

[jungee]

some people go so far as to call it genital mutilation or child abuse.

to me there are many reasons for circumcision, and if i have a son, he will be circumcised.
Interesting, but it surprises me coming from you cause I had the impression from your previous posts that you were a progressist when it came to women rights, and gender rights in general.

Why would it not extend to your son's right to chose what happens to his penis when he is of age to consent? After all, if later in life he does not agree with your decision he does not have the option of growing his foreskin back

[greengoddess]

my son is circumcised, I did it because my brother wasn't and he wishes he was. now he feels weird in the locker room at school because he doesn't look like the other guys, and he's afraid of what girls will think, because most guys are.... I think it looks better, cleaner and I don't want Aden (my son) to go through what my brother is going through.

[makno]

hi .....this thread is pure folly ......i wouldnt want a forskin ......i dont have one ....i love my penis ,,,,,,,im enjoying it

[jungee]

and now.... all over again..... the forskin mafia , and related penis gang wars !!
You got it wrong, i'm not from the "foreskin mafia" and I have no idea who they are...As a matter of fact I am cicircumsised and if I was perfectly honest I would say that I like guys who are cut too.

But this is a philosophical debate, and it goes beyond what I feel or not...I realize some people have strong reactions in regards to this issue, because if they admit that there could be something wrong with this practice it forces them to feel all the emotions of loss towards the part of pleasure that may have been stolen from them. It may also mean feeling guilt over the choice of getting their sons circumsized, or resenting their parents (or their traditions) for making the choice for them. And no-one wants to go there...

Personally I'm not afraid to discuss anything cause that's the only way I learn and move forward ;)

[makno]

its quite alrite , its that in the past theese topics have got extreme responces .....go for it !

[makno]

hey lets not forget the dental herpies rabi ....we are obliged to drag him out .

[laura4484]

i hate to sound extremely nieve, but i have absolutely no inklink of a clue as to what circumcision is. is any one willing to explain?

[UrsusKind]

Well my sun is uncut and the only reasons to realy wack off a perfectly funtioning body part like the foreskin is either purely for looks or you are Jewish.

I think my kid would look better with half an ear maybe i'll try to get a doctor to cut half of it off when he is about three or so days old.

silly humans forskins are for kids

[Mui]

all i wanna know is, why is this in the gay forum? i voted unsure, becuz im happy w/ my circumsized penis

[txbarefooter]

well if "EVERYONE" jumped off a cliff, would you ? ** good ole mom's retort **

or

** SNIP **

[LotusGem]

I agree that it's wrong for boy's to be circumcised and then have to live with someone's crap decision for the rest of their lives, but I still gotta say female circumcision is WAY worse! Afterall, a circumcised male can still feel pleasure and doesn't have all the complications.

[readicculus]

Female circumcision is not just one standard thing. It involves cutting off different parts in either small or extreme ways. In some places it's very minor, in others it's quite a complete procedure.

If you're just worried about your child fitting in, well why not drop your alternative lifestyle and send him to Harvard to become a fine suit-weraing capitalist? He'll fit in much better and be accepted and probably not have nights sitting up wondering what it's all about as he's so rich and satisfied with his lot in life.

So what is this "fitting in" argument all about? Do you fit in? Are you living an apple-pie and football existence? Take off your hippy gear and start falling into rank, no reason to make waves or be different. Or be like the billions of normal people through the world who have not had their genitals cut for some random reason.

Unless you have a religious reason for doing it, circumcision doesn't really have a purpose. And I'll remind you that female circumcision is also done for religious reasons. And for fitting in.

In Roman times Jews who lived with Romans used to try to adapt by only having a very minimal, symbolic cut to the foreskin, in order to fit in and not arise taunts from their Roman neighbors. They denied their religious heritage and what they thought was right simply to fit in and not make waves. Naked wrestling without being different was more important to them.

So think about it before you just shrug it off, if you were born in Europe, or born mostly anywhere else in the world, would you cut off your child's foreskin? Of course not, there's no reason for it. People live and have lived happy lives like that for all of our evolutionary history. So just because you live here, in America, where a fad caught on, why do you have to join in the fad? To fit in and be like everyone else?

Well then tell your hippie sisters to shave their armpits and stop being vegans, cut your dreadlocks off and get a fucking job doing something American damnit!

[UrsusKind]

This guy expressed my every view so damn well i want you to read it again!!!!



Female circumcision is not just one standard thing. It involves cutting off different parts in either small or extreme ways. In some places it's very minor, in others it's quite a complete procedure.

If you're just worried about your child fitting in, well why not drop your alternative lifestyle and send him to Harvard to become a fine suit-weraing capitalist? He'll fit in much better and be accepted and probably not have nights sitting up wondering what it's all about as he's so rich and satisfied with his lot in life.

So what is this "fitting in" argument all about? Do you fit in? Are you living an apple-pie and football existence? Take off your hippy gear and start falling into rank, no reason to make waves or be different. Or be like the billions of normal people through the world who have not had their genitals cut for some random reason.

Unless you have a religious reason for doing it, circumcision doesn't really have a purpose. And I'll remind you that female circumcision is also done for religious reasons. And for fitting in.

In Roman times Jews who lived with Romans used to try to adapt by only having a very minimal, symbolic cut to the foreskin, in order to fit in and not arise taunts from their Roman neighbors. They denied their religious heritage and what they thought was right simply to fit in and not make waves. Naked wrestling without being different was more important to them.

So think about it before you just shrug it off, if you were born in Europe, or born mostly anywhere else in the world, would you cut off your child's foreskin? Of course not, there's no reason for it. People live and have lived happy lives like that for all of our evolutionary history. So just because you live here, in America, where a fad caught on, why do you have to join in the fad? To fit in and be like everyone else?

Well then tell your hippie sisters to shave their armpits and stop being vegans, cut your dreadlocks off and get a fucking job doing something American damnit!

[StonerBill]

i think this is all silly, imo. i was circumsised. i was pissed off at the start when i hurt. theni got over it.

the foreskin has no purpose

i can masturbate without it.

the only reason you would keep it would be for visual or pride based reasons. i had a hurting penis and since my dad had a problem with his forskin once, my mum got me circumsized.

what the hell is wrong iwth it? its NOTHING like female circumsizion which would sorta be like chopping off the whole male penis. or just making it as sensitive as any normal part of the body like your arm. its horrible. and can have bad rammifications laterlife with pregnancy.

foreskin might help a bit with some elements of sex.

who really cares. i cant see how it has anything to do with fitting in. no one even cares or asks now except every once in a while the topic will be around, and its not like mature people think twice about someones answer.

such a typical american thing, to argue that its a violation of rights.. pfft

[readicculus]

Again, female circumcision can involve a simple cut to the labia or a procedure to remove some extraneous flesh, or to simply tighten the vaginal passage a bit. Full on clitorectomy and massive amounts of mutilation are not the most widespread of procedures.

From wikipedia: "In mammals, the foreskin or prepuce is the retractable double-layered fold of skin and mucous membrane that covers the head of the penis, (the glans penis). It serves as a sheath to protect the glans penis. In a female, the clitoral foreskin, or hood, covers and protects the glans clitoris in a similar manner."

It's also made up of the same type of tissue and nerve endings that make up the labia, as well as serving as a lubricating agent for the glans. Also some other reasons for having it, a link from a source I admit is biased in the matter, but provides some good reading about mechanics and purpose of the foreskin: http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/

And if parents are talking about how they don't want their children to be different in this very thread, well then fitting in certainly is part of the issue, as posters have admitted that very thing.

Also this is not an "American thing" to think that it's a violation of the rights of a child. People all around the world, especially in places where more routine circumcision is being practiced, are involved in the debate. Personally I don't call it a violation of rights, a parent does have the right to decide what to do to their child as far as operations aand procedures go. If they wish for a child not to receive life support, not get flu shots, whatever... I say that's well within their parental rights and it should be respected.

However the practice of circumcising simply because everyone else is doing it and it was done to you is something that I think is wrong. If you have a valid medical or religious reason that it one thing, but to just want it done because that's what we do here in America, well that's not a very good reason at all. In that case it is something that people should think more about. Just as certain members of what I would call an Underground Culture here look at other aspects of their lives a bit more closely than others, I feel that they should realize that this is a bit more lasting of an issue than whether or not a woman shaves her armpits or you decide to wear strange clothes or wear your hair long.

[UrsusKind]

Ok the biggest complaint is that men are over bearing power trippers when it comes to sex. When often a male child in the US's first big memories are of his penis being cut with no anesthesia. Now as it was suppose to be the male penis head is meant to be moist like the eyeball or the or the tongue. Unlike the tungue and the eyeball the penis is PACKED with pain receptors. So this very sensitive area is just left to dry out and form the scar tissue that is the penis head of the circumsized man.

I've never hurt my son in the name of fashion and I hope I never will.

[CaseyCondo]

This is a left over sick relgious pratice that should be outlawed. Well ok, not that bad. But doing it just for the hell of it is wrong wrong wrong. But for the record it isn't required in the USA by any means. The mother gets a paper she must sign if she wants it done. Its more like well I don't want my son to be different, so I'll cut off part of his PENIS! Great IDEA! NOT! We need to band together to spread the word its not cool. When my friend had a kid at age 16 in Maryland, USA, I convince her not to have the circumsion done. It can always be done later, but you can never add it back.

[jungee]

I think like anything, it's hard to be aware of the cultural bagage behind certain practices before we embrace them..circumcision is just one of those customs that are symptomatic of the way we just embrace gender rules and dogmas without thinking twice about it. "It's just the way it is"..

Except in this case, the practice is actually very violent and it involves taking a part of flesh and pleasure from little boys to control their pleasure. There is absolutely no difference between that and female circumscision, cause it all comes down to religious forces and traditions trying to control our sexuality in one or the other..

I don't think male circumsion is a begin act compared to females. I still remember mine and yet I was only 4year old. I was in excruciating pain for a week, and after that everytime I witnessed other little boys being circumcised and screaming for help, I felt such a sense of betrayal coming from adults who allowed it to happen. I saw them as complicits who brought boys to the doctors and held them down while they were butchered against their will. I never once saw a little boy smiling or wanting to be circumsized. All I ever saw was angry, pained and traumatized faces. That's the exact same thing I witness in girls being circumsized too..no difference

[poptart_pop]

it's cleaner..proving that females that have sex with an uncircumcised man...are more likely to have cervial cancer.

[UrsusKind]

I found this on this site
http://www.circumcisioninfo.com/bbc_cancer.htm

"...as long as uncircumcised men are careful about keeping their genitals clean, the risk of cervical cancer in their partners should not be any greater than that for circumcised men. "

So if moms jut teach there boys two things

1. there is no reason to have as many sexual partners as you can get and to only sleep with people you trly love more than others

2. keep you man root clean

Then it isn't a problem. I'm glad this was posted so I can tell my son.

[poptart_pop]

good research...but i just think they look ugly

[Scavenger]

Quite honestly, reading the arguments from pro-circumcision people makes me want to gag. I really think you people are being ridiculous.

This is a purely cosmetic surgery, and cosmetic surgery should never, and I mean NEVER be something parents choose for their children before they are able to make the decision for themselves. At least wait until they're old enough to talk, if not until later. It should be THEIR choice, not yours.

And then you come up with these absolutely ridiculous excuses for wanting it done...

"It looks better." Why the hell do you care what your son's penis looks like, provided it does the job it was intended to do? Over-occupied with looks, are we?

"It's cleaner." By that argument, we should be having it done to girls, too. Girls have foreskins that are even harder to get to than boys' foreskins.

Obviously, I am appalled by the very concept of circumcision (as well as every other form of child-mutilation), and if I have children I will not have it done to them.

[readicculus]

""It's cleaner." By that argument, we should be having it done to girls, too. Girls have foreskins that are even harder to get to than boys' foreskins."

That's a good point, as are the facts about rates of infection being the same for males regardless of whether or not they have been circumcised.

Labial smegma is common amongst women, and it's a naturally ocurring substance that if you keep clean you don't have to worry about. Infections can certainly happen, and they often do happen in women as this seems to be a trickier area to maintain cleanliness in to prevent yeast infections for instance, according to my readings.

Does that mean I want women to have cosmetic work done to their labias in order to prevent that? Of course not, I'd find it awful if women were being essentially forced to alter themselves in that manner in order to fit in to society properly.

[SpliffVortex]

some people go so far as to call it genital mutilation or child abuse.

to me there are many reasons for circumcision, and if i have a son, he will be circumcised. one idiot here.

[SpliffVortex]

i didnt have my son done, i see no point in it. i have heard arguments abut it being cleaner but i think its more of a "well, it doesnt look normal". it does look normal, it is natural, and girls wont make fun of him about it, i have also heard that given as a reason to have it done! well.................. if you teach your child to wash his self properly he wont have any problems. another idiot here

[SpliffVortex]

and now.... all over again..... the forskin mafia , and related penis gang wars !! beats the hell out of doctors with scapels around your penis.

[SpliffVortex]

you notice both idiots are females.

[SpliffVortex]

there is something spiritual and religious about circumcising sons.
circumcising daughters is an abomination.

if you want me to explain my spiritual ideas, i might do it, if you ask me nice.
but suffice it to say, i would circumcise my son for the simple reason that he wasn't born a girl.
and later in life i would teach him why i had it done to him.
i'm thankful my father had me circumcised, as will my son thank me too. i could call a bunch of nasty words but why bother with a dense brain like yours.

[SpliffVortex]

im going to thank my dad for removing 1 lung , in case 1 gets cancer, 1 eye lid you never know, my apendix what the hell right. im trying to expand the list of organs mother nature took millions to get it right so 2 dumb broads like above could have them removed .. i like to take both bitches and removed the clitory hood and every skin fold around that nasty pussy "you can tell i get real bent out of shape around ignorant people with a PC to top it off.

[readicculus]

Originally Posted by FunkyPhreshMama
i didnt have my son done, i see no point in it. i have heard arguments abut it being cleaner but i think its more of a "well, it doesnt look normal". it does look normal, it is natural, and girls wont make fun of him about it, i have also heard that given as a reason to have it done! well.................. if you teach your child to wash his self properly he wont have any problems.
another idiot here
What are you talking about man? She said it's totally fine and she chose for her son to be natural. She merely mentioned the arguments used by proponents of circumcision, and then disagreed with them. Your response seems pretty far off base and there's no reason to stoop to calling people idiots for having their opinions. Especially when they agree with you.

[jungee]

SplillVortex this topic is not intended to point out fingers at others..

People are not as informed on this matter, and as Maya Angelou said when "when you know better you do better", at least I hope..

We can always point to a thousand things the other one does in the name of some order, whether it's religion, patriarchy or esthetism (and looking at your post it does not seem you're necessarly free of "cultural baggage" when it comes to your view on females.)

[jungee]

my son is circumcised, I did it because my brother wasn't and he wishes he was. now he feels weird in the locker room at school because he doesn't look like the other guys, and he's afraid of what girls will think, because most guys are.... I think it looks better, cleaner and I don't want Aden (my son) to go through what my brother is going through.
I respect your reason for circumcising your son, and it's a valid one considering you did not have the knowledge.

[jungee]

all i wanna know is, why is this in the gay forum?Why? because it made a lot of sense for me to...

The universe is interconnected, and the question of circumcision & the perception of gays are both rooted in our religious culture which tries to control our sexualities in one way or other. I just wanted to make that point, and show how myths can be constructed to the point where they come to make perfect sense, and get embraced by smart thinking and seemingly compassionate people.

But, it really is hard to extract oneself from one's culture, unless you had the chance to experience something else.. It would be like expecting a mother in one of the African tribes who perform female circumcision to just wake up one day, and say "this practice makes no sense".. And yet we feel free to say 'oh that's not the same, it's more barbaric, they cut more' and it prevents us to look at ourselves in how we perpetrate the same things unto our children and others.

And by the way, this is *not* to say that the people who do not circumsize their children have more merit than others because their decision is not always the result of a long and deliberate soul searching. Sometime it is, but often they can just follow the trends their cultures vehiculate! And if they don't partake in circumsison it's something else. So we still have a long way to go in more ways than one..

[SpliffVortex]

i have to resort to extreme when ignorant bitches speaks out .

[SpliffVortex]

i brought circumcision to light before with the foreskin threat so dont claim any prize. in the gay forum. i think it was 1 or 2 months ago.

[SpliffVortex]

i goof up on funkypreshmama i must have click on the wrong one so i do ow her .

[SpliffVortex]

all i wanna know is, why is this in the gay forum? i voted unsure, becuz im happy w/ my circumsized penis you never had one idiot how could you tell.

[SpliffVortex]

hi .....this thread is pure folly ......i wouldnt want a forskin ......i dont have one ....i love my penis ,,,,,,,im enjoying it this one dont make any sense

[SpliffVortex]

my son is circumcised, I did it because my brother wasn't and he wishes he was. now he feels weird in the locker room at school because he doesn't look like the other guys, and he's afraid of what girls will think, because most guys are.... I think it looks better, cleaner and I don't want Aden (my son) to go through what my brother is going through. well at 60% rate of circumcision since the 1990s your brother would not be so weird. around the world were 80% of male population is intact your brother would be the weird one. im sure the doctor drives a mercedez benz from all the circumcision job and prob hes own son is intact since hes a doctor and he knows dam well theres no reason to mutilate and degrade the sex organ with circumcision.

[SpliffVortex]

i really get bent out shape on this matter but it burns me up that idiots with a computer and all information around about the CONS OF CIRC AND the fact no medical institution in the world recomends circumcision this idiots still come here and blah theyr bullshit . .... again im sorry Funky presh Mama YOU seen like the few here with any comon sense and Jungee i take my hat off for you. im not sure about bombing a legit abortion clinic that peforms a abortion on only the first few month . but i would bomb a circumcision room in a hospital if i could have it my way. "while no infants there just the butcher doctor and nurse,.

[makno]

well penis nazis ......whooda thunk it ? .....well i hope your all satisfied n proud of yer smeggin assed cheese dick thread .....listen , .... counter terroriost brigades may be kidnappin u , n snippin yer weenie wit a rusty tin can top !

[SpliffVortex]

well penis nazis ......whooda thunk it ? .....well i hope your all satisfied n proud of yer smeggin assed cheese dick thread .....listen , .... counter terroriost brigades may be kidnappin u , n snippin yer weenie wit a rusty tin can top !must be a jew or a muslim = not much of difrence any how.

[SpliffVortex]

http://www.circumcisionvideos.com/i...reeintrodsl.mov (http://www.circumcisionvideos.com/images-Circumcision%20Videos/QTfreeintrodsl.mov)

[makno]

thats rite scumbag racist im both at once and im a queer nigger in a wheelchair from mexico ......i wanna fucf yer inbreed cracker daughter n give her aids

[SpliffVortex]

Viva Zapata!!!!

[SpliffVortex]

i hate to sound extremely nieve, but i have absolutely no inklink of a clue as to what circumcision is. is any one willing to explain? i was just wondering why do you own a PC for .

[SpliffVortex]

some people go so far as to call it genital mutilation or child abuse.

to me there are many reasons for circumcision, and if i have a son, he will be circumcised. let me know when you cross the street so i can run you over with 4 ton truck. one sure way to eliminate this gene pool.

[SpliffVortex]

my son is circumcised, I did it because my brother wasn't and he wishes he was. now he feels weird in the locker room at school because he doesn't look like the other guys, and he's afraid of what girls will think, because most guys are.... I think it looks better, cleaner and I don't want Aden (my son) to go through what my brother is going through. you fuck up you left the eye lids, toe nails, apendix, ears, teeth, scalp "in case he goes bold later on".

[SpliffVortex]

my son is circumcised, I did it because my brother wasn't and he wishes he was. now he feels weird in the locker room at school because he doesn't look like the other guys, and he's afraid of what girls will think, because most guys are.... I think it looks better, cleaner and I don't want Aden (my son) to go through what my brother is going through. pathetic idiot

[SpliffVortex]

What Is Lost?


"To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants
should be given accurate and unbiased information."


Circumcision Policy Statement
American Academy of Pediatrics
March 1, 1999

When a baby boy’s normal intact penis is circumcised, this is what is lost -- forever:
*1. The foreskin, which comprises up to 50% (sometimes more) of the mobile skin system of the penis. If unfolded and spread out flat, the average adult foreskin would measure about 15 square inches (the size of a 3 x 5-inch index card). This highly specialized tissue normally covers the glans and protects it from abrasion, drying, callusing (keratinization), and contaminants of all kinds. The effect of glans keratinization on human sexuality has never been studied.

*2. The frenar band of soft ridges -- the primary erogenous zone of the male body. Loss of this delicate belt of densely innervated, sexually responsive tissue reduces the fullness and intensity of sexual response.

*3. The foreskin’s "gliding action" -- the hallmark mechanical feature of the normal, natural, intact penis. This non-abrasive gliding of the penis in and out of itself within the vagina facilitates smooth, comfortable, pleasurable intercourse for both partners. Without this gliding action, the corona of the circumcised penis can function as a one-way valve, scraping vaginal lubricants out into the drying air and making artificial lubricants essential for comfortable intercourse.

*4. Thousands of coiled fine-touch receptors called the Meissner’s corpuscles -- the most important sensory component of the foreskin. Also lost are branches of the dorsal nerve and between 10,000 and 20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings of several types, which can feel slight motion and stretch, subtle changes in temperature, and fine gradations in texture.

*5. The frenulum, the highly erogenous V-shaped web-like tethering structure on the underside of the glans; frequently amputated along with the foreskin, or severed, either of which destroys its function and potential for pleasure.

6. Approximately half of the temperature-sensitive smooth muscle sheath called the dartos fascia.

7. The immunological defense system of the soft mucosa, which produces plasma cells, which secrete immunoglobulin antibodies, and antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as the pathogen-killing enzyme lysozyme.

8. Lymphatic vessels, the loss of which reduces the lymph flow within that part of the body’s immune system.

9. Estrogen receptors -- the purpose of which is not yet fully understood and needs further study.

*10. The apocrine glands of the inner foreskin, which produce pheromones -- nature’s powerful, silent, invisible behavioral signals to potential sexual partners. The effect of their absence on human sexuality has never been studied.

*11. Sebaceous glands, which lubricate and moisturize the foreskin and glans, normally a protected internal organ -- like the tongue or vagina.

12. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, a component of the immune system in a whole penis.

13. The pink to red to dark purple natural coloration of the glans. The connective tissue which protectively fuses the foreskin and glans together while the penis develops is ripped apart during circumcision, wounding the glans and the foreskin remnant, leaving them raw and subject to infection, scarring, pitting, shrinkage, and eventual discoloration.

*14. Some of the penis length and penis circumference because its double-layered wrapping of loose and usually overhanging foreskin is now missing, making the circumcised penis truncated and thinner than a full-sized intact penis.

*15. Several feet of blood vessels, including the frenular artery and branches of the dorsal artery. The loss of this rich vascularization interrupts normal blood flow to the shaft and glans of the penis, damaging the natural function of the penis and altering its development.

16. Every year boys lose their entire penises from circumcision accidents and infections. They are then "sexually reassigned" by castration and "transgender surgery," and expected to live their lives as "females."

17. Every year many boys lose their lives from the complications of circumcision, a fact the profiteering billion-dollar-a-year circumcision industry in the U.S. obscures and ignores.

18. Delayed and diminished bonding with the mother and loss of innate sense of trust in human contact.

(*19. Although not yet proven scientifically, anecdotal evidence suggests that a penis without its foreskin lacks the capacity for the subtle "cross communication" that occurs only during contact between mucous membranes and that contributes to the experience of sexual pleasure. In other words, amputating a male's multi-functional foreskin is a neurological castration, which diminishes the intensity of the entire sexual experience for both the victimized male and his partner.)

* Loss of each of these items reduces sexual pleasure, gratification, and fulfillment.

[UrsusKind]

you mean we evolved with a foreskin for a purpose???



What Is Lost?


"To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants
should be given accurate and unbiased information."


Circumcision Policy Statement
American Academy of Pediatrics
March 1, 1999

When a baby boy’s normal intact penis is circumcised, this is what is lost -- forever:
*1. The foreskin, which comprises up to 50% (sometimes more) of the mobile skin system of the penis. If unfolded and spread out flat, the average adult foreskin would measure about 15 square inches (the size of a 3 x 5-inch index card). This highly specialized tissue normally covers the glans and protects it from abrasion, drying, callusing (keratinization), and contaminants of all kinds. The effect of glans keratinization on human sexuality has never been studied.

*2. The frenar band of soft ridges -- the primary erogenous zone of the male body. Loss of this delicate belt of densely innervated, sexually responsive tissue reduces the fullness and intensity of sexual response.

*3. The foreskin’s "gliding action" -- the hallmark mechanical feature of the normal, natural, intact penis. This non-abrasive gliding of the penis in and out of itself within the vagina facilitates smooth, comfortable, pleasurable intercourse for both partners. Without this gliding action, the corona of the circumcised penis can function as a one-way valve, scraping vaginal lubricants out into the drying air and making artificial lubricants essential for comfortable intercourse.

*4. Thousands of coiled fine-touch receptors called the Meissner’s corpuscles -- the most important sensory component of the foreskin. Also lost are branches of the dorsal nerve and between 10,000 and 20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings of several types, which can feel slight motion and stretch, subtle changes in temperature, and fine gradations in texture.

*5. The frenulum, the highly erogenous V-shaped web-like tethering structure on the underside of the glans; frequently amputated along with the foreskin, or severed, either of which destroys its function and potential for pleasure.

6. Approximately half of the temperature-sensitive smooth muscle sheath called the dartos fascia.

7. The immunological defense system of the soft mucosa, which produces plasma cells, which secrete immunoglobulin antibodies, and antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as the pathogen-killing enzyme lysozyme.

8. Lymphatic vessels, the loss of which reduces the lymph flow within that part of the body’s immune system.

9. Estrogen receptors -- the purpose of which is not yet fully understood and needs further study.

*10. The apocrine glands of the inner foreskin, which produce pheromones -- nature’s powerful, silent, invisible behavioral signals to potential sexual partners. The effect of their absence on human sexuality has never been studied.

*11. Sebaceous glands, which lubricate and moisturize the foreskin and glans, normally a protected internal organ -- like the tongue or vagina.

12. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, a component of the immune system in a whole penis.

13. The pink to red to dark purple natural coloration of the glans. The connective tissue which protectively fuses the foreskin and glans together while the penis develops is ripped apart during circumcision, wounding the glans and the foreskin remnant, leaving them raw and subject to infection, scarring, pitting, shrinkage, and eventual discoloration.

*14. Some of the penis length and penis circumference because its double-layered wrapping of loose and usually overhanging foreskin is now missing, making the circumcised penis truncated and thinner than a full-sized intact penis.

*15. Several feet of blood vessels, including the frenular artery and branches of the dorsal artery. The loss of this rich vascularization interrupts normal blood flow to the shaft and glans of the penis, damaging the natural function of the penis and altering its development.

16. Every year boys lose their entire penises from circumcision accidents and infections. They are then "sexually reassigned" by castration and "transgender surgery," and expected to live their lives as "females."

17. Every year many boys lose their lives from the complications of circumcision, a fact the profiteering billion-dollar-a-year circumcision industry in the U.S. obscures and ignores.

18. Delayed and diminished bonding with the mother and loss of innate sense of trust in human contact.

(*19. Although not yet proven scientifically, anecdotal evidence suggests that a penis without its foreskin lacks the capacity for the subtle "cross communication" that occurs only during contact between mucous membranes and that contributes to the experience of sexual pleasure. In other words, amputating a male's multi-functional foreskin is a neurological castration, which diminishes the intensity of the entire sexual experience for both the victimized male and his partner.)

* Loss of each of these items reduces sexual pleasure, gratification, and fulfillment.

[jungee]

you mean we evolved with a foreskin for a purpose???
I think he's saying the contrary

I agree with everything that is said in the article..there is just no way you can cut such a big piece of skin without some serious unknown consequences. The foreskin is not a vital organ but it's there for a purpose. But since our culture has thousands of years of trying to keep our sexuality in line and ensuring that it's used to procreate, circumsion was a sacrifice that had to be done to keep men from falling trap to "hedonism".

My own assumption is that our ancestors may have noticed that circumsizing boys crippled their sexual response and curiosity towards sex for a while, thus postponing their discovery of masturbation or possibly eradicating it. Which is the same goal of female circumcision.

Of course, it's different these days cause information circulates about sex a lot more, so teen boys masturbate just as much if not more than before, but I'm certain it's more "natural" to stumble upon the pleasure of masturbation if a boy plays with his foreskin and notices that it gives him pleasure.

[jungee]

and Jungee i take my hat off for you. im not sure about bombing a legit abortion clinic that peforms a abortion on only the first few month . but i would bomb a circumcision room in a hospital if i could have it my way. "while no infants there just the butcher doctor and nurse,.
Thanks, but you really need to take a chill pill :confused:... we can't be having a discussion here if you go after the posters and hurl thunderbolts at them

ps If you really want to go after the bad guys they are not to be found here, go picket somewhere it'll put your message across much better.

[SpliffVortex]

We Sure Did Not Evolved With Out One.

[greenwing-macaw]

If it's wrong to subject girls to such genital mutilation, then it's also wrong to subject boys to the same! To argue otherwise is anti-male sexism!


Why is this acceptable in our culture, for it seems as if anti-male sexism is fine and dandy, but anti-female sexism is just about a federal crime? Sexism should not be tolerated at all, whether it's sexual harassment on the job, stand up comics cracking ugly jokes about men or women, or circumcision on girls and boys. We all, men and women alike, should denounce sexism against men as loudly as we denounce sexism against women. Only then, can true equality between the sexes be achieved, and it will eliminate the hypocisy surrounding the issue. I know this is somewhat a digression from the main topic, but it does tie in with it also.

John

[SpliffVortex]

Thanks, but you really need to take a chill pill :confused:... we can't be having a discussion here if you go after the posters and hurl thunderbolts at them

ps If you really want to go after the bad guys they are not to be found here, go picket somewhere it'll put your message across much better. i allready got the dinamite i need fuses.

[SpliffVortex]

If it's wrong to subject girls to such genital mutilation, then it's also wrong to subject boys to the same! To argue otherwise is anti-male sexism!


Why is this acceptable in our culture, for it seems as if anti-male sexism is fine and dandy, but anti-female sexism is just about a federal crime? Sexism should not be tolerated at all, whether it's sexual harassment on the job, stand up comics cracking ugly jokes about men or women, or circumcision on girls and boys. We all, men and women alike, should denounce sexism against men as loudly as we denounce sexism against women. Only then, can true equality between the sexes be achieved, and it will eliminate the hypocisy surrounding the issue. I know this is somewhat a digression from the main topic, but it does tie in with it also.

John well said green .

[MSman]

No i dont think it is. i like being circumsized.

[Sininabin]

It isn't and shouldn't be madatory in the US it simple thing done for apperance, or religon and their are some statment towards some cleanlyness issues but it should be a choice of the parents to decide for their children becuse children are not allowed to make choices for themselves at that age. And it silly to think it infringement of rights besuse at that age their are no rights in that area of choices.

It quite clear why people may do it early becuse even though it can be done in adulthood it much more painful and difficut and costly process compared to when done to a young baby.

[Sininabin]

can cut such a big piece of skin without some serious unknown consequences. The foreskin is not a vital organ but it's there for a purpose.
It should be a parents choice if they want it or not. People's rights to circumzie should not be thrown away becuse of the idea that it should be their just becuse you were born with it. And the fact is no proven evidence that it is has bad or good effects on the person. It's not an organ it is tussie just like earlob or nails or of course your skin. That way the effect are minial at most becuse it just extra skin .

If people wanted to speculate why it is there it is probably becuse when people did't wear shorts it would of been very irritating if you did't have extra protection. That is probably why most animals also have forskin. Becuse we are animals too, and it just matter of choicethe forskin does not have a sercet pupose

[SpliffVortex]

SplillVortex this topic is not intended to point out fingers at others..

People are not as informed on this matter, and as Maya Angelou said when "when you know better you do better", at least I hope..

We can always point to a thousand things the other one does in the name of some order, whether it's religion, patriarchy or esthetism (and looking at your post it does not seem you're necessarly free of "cultural baggage" when it comes to your view on females.) i cant argue with your point of view however i do hand out nasty remarks concerning the females pussy since most of it is true but the real reason is i hate when a female who own a much dirtier reproductive organ comes here and blast on the males and do the same the only difrence is im far more straight to the point than they are.

[makno]

shit ....im doin ok ......its not like i long to reatach a foerskin .....i like my atenuated penis .

[SpliffVortex]

Makno go to sleep is past your bed time and dont forget your medicine.

[SpliffVortex]

shit ....im doin ok ......its not like i long to reatach a foerskin .....i like my atenuated penis . Besides once is butcher you cant reconect all of those nerves ends so re-attaching the foreskin wont do much . buy a new plasma TV with the money.

[SpliffVortex]

circumsized makes the experience 50 times better m8s KEEP DREAMING !!

[w00t92]

Holy shit! Thread Hijack!
http://www.csuchico.edu/hcsv/servicelearning/nerds.jpg

[Green]

Should a boy have the right to chose whether his penis be cut or not ?
My parents didn't give me it. They didn't want to have to clean under there. They told me "Its more hygenic".

If I ever have a son, he'll get to choose (When hes 18+).

I don't care what Americans and Africans do or say (and thinking about it pisses me off, so I'm going to put the entire issue aside and go find a happy thread now).

[melyn]

If the person is circumcised at birth then I can't imagine the person missing something he's never had, although it is kind of an infringment on choice still. If its done later of in life though I think it should certainly be up to the penis' owner whether it gets chopped or not.

[Oz!]

anyone who would take a knife to a child and draw blood (without a bloody good medical reason) should be treat like any other child mutilator.....sling the docile fuckers in jail :)


circumsized makes the experience 50 times better m8s

yah. sure it does........go buy a text book and find out where the nerve endings are that trigger arousal. ejaculation and orgasm in male genitalia......then weep for your missing out without a hood :D

[hipunk]

.


I am glad to hear that this issue is uncomfortable to some folks. Circumcision is barbaric. It was introduced in America because they thought that it would make boys masturbate less, god forbid. Actually it's a way of punishing horrible little boys before they have a chance to become men.

There is nothing unclean about a boys foreskin as there is nothing unclean about a girls labia. Think about it. You have to clean behind your ears, but I wouldn't cut them off to make it easier! That's fucking crazy.

The only medical evidence to support male genital mutilation is newer, within the last 10 years. It was created to endorse a decades old practice. A small percentage of men may develop cancer, which isn't life threatening. The percent is less than the occurrence of cervical cancer in women, which is life threatening. So why don't we remove a female babies cervix?

Recent studies have shown that circumcised males actually masturbate more than their uncut brothers. Think about it. You removed the pleasure center. Okay, I beat off to recieve pleasure. What do you expect? And the ones I've seen, being gay they are several many, the ones that were the most mutilated are the dudes with big ones. Which always makes me think that the doctors were either envious or just went too far, and tried to make sure they got it all. Sick. Sick. Sick.

The mother decides wether the kid gets cut. And I don't recommend that we remove the mothers clitoris in retaliation (that's something to think about) But before the mother decides, she should be forced to witness a circumcision of a baby boy. Believe me, after seeing that no sane person would don it on their beloved child.


robt.

[Corvuspirit]

circumcision is the most common surgery performed in the US...$400 a whack...there is likely no other reason for its prevelance than the $$.

lucky for me, my parents were poor and i was saved from being mutilated.

[hailtothekingbaby]

I think people that have babies undergo surgery for practically no reason at all are retards who should be shot. And the babies too for allowing their parents for being so retarded.

Religious reasons, my ass. If I had a baby and would take it to a tattoo artist to have a huge goat's head tattooed on his chest and say my religion dictates it, would it stop the police or child protection from busting my ass? Both are permanent and may not be desirable to the child when he grows up, and then it's too late.

If they want to have it done, let them have it done. But don't decide for them when they can't say no yet.

As for peer pressure - people who do not stand above that are useless and pathetic anyway.

[Soulless||Chaos]

I see absolutely no way whatsoever how circumsicion is any different than "female genital mutilation"... Other than the fact it's done to males.. I guess that makes it alright?

[Erasmus70]

This is disturbing.
I was reading up on the biography of Kellogg (the Puritanical Health Guru) and although he was fantastic on so many things - he had a very peculiar sexual 'fetish' or belief that sexual ejaculation or intercourse was unhealthy.
No offense to my American friends but this is honestly a very peculiar concept I find about the USA.
The idea that sex is 'dirty' or 'naughty' or 'forbidden' etc.
Anywayssssss....
The whole thing went something like this: On occasion, one of the boys would get caught masterbating (wow surprise).
Sometimes they would get caught more than once.
Now since masterbating was morally unhygenic (note that term because its major in explaining why Americans do this even today) it was determined that a 'Cure' for this morally unsanitary practice must be found.
Now, since each and every parent would insist there was simply no way their boys were 'dirty little boys' it simply MUST be something else 'causing them' to do this.
Aha!
It was noticed that the same time the boys were growing in pubic hairs - this was about when the dirty masterbating began!
Small hairs must be getting caught under the foreskin (of a flaccid penis) and this was itching and bothering the boys - who naturally would rub their penis for relief.

GREAT! Oh boy.. whew!
What a relief to know that their sons were actually victims and not 'dirty little boys' after all!
Kellogg then would 'cure' the problem by having the boys foreskin amputated (circumcision is just a term describing how its amputated btw)

Now hang on because here is the 'good part':
It WORKED!
Yep.. the theory was now a proven fact of science and you know why?
After that - the boys were NEVER CAUGHT MASTERBATING EVER AGAIN!
They were now 'cured' and 'Morally Hygenic'.
Eventually it was a social status to do this - after all, everybody knows those 'uncut' boys were dirty little masterbators.. or at least you would NOT want anyone else thinking that would you!

The real popular wave was a health scare .. what amounted to nothing short of a hoax in New York.
Personally, if you ask me (and many others) I have no doubt that because almost all the original Doctors promoting this were circumcised and probably felt 'different' and what not - they were more than happy to get revenge on all those locker-room teasing by turning the tables.
"Now WE are the majority and intact men will be the minority!"
That I imagine is how it went in the 40's.

Anyways.. the Kellogg thing was just damm creepy as hell to me .. and otherwise I actually admire the man in so many other ways!
Anyways.. the males foreskin is to PROTECT the nearly transparent and highly sensitive sex gland at the top of the penis.
Especially to protect it from disease and foreign particles.
Not really much different than the Labia on a female in principle.
The ONLY reason you hear words like 'hygenic' in the USA is because there is a sort of left-over social memory about 'Moral Hygeine'.

I dont know .. almost every other nation on the planet disallows or officially rejects the practice except the USA?
Im not counting, obviously Middle-Eastern or 'Semetic' countries, 'Muslim' countries etc where obviously they do it for their own religious traditions.
Even then.. the original biblical version didnt do this modern extremely radical USA version.
btw.. Southern Canadians copied that too (around my age group was the worst) so its not just the USA.

[LaughinWillow]

I completely believe that circumcision is a human rights violation. How anyone can argue that actually chopping off a part of another human being's body is just a "parenting choice" is beyond me. My son is intact, and he'll stay that way unless HE decides he'd like to start chopping off body parts.

[Erasmus70]

Yeah, I totally agree.
I really do not have a big problem with Jews following their custom if only they are keeping it to the original practice of just the foreskin.
(Im not wanting that - but saying i can respect it).
The relatively new version of digging down the penis and peeling the skin off the gland is simply the most barbaric and downright disgusting thing I can think of.

What so mind boggling on this - just imagine taking a newborn girl into a surgeon and saying that you want her labia cut off.
The cops would kick your door down and you go to Jail - you lose your child and the surgeon would be lucky to make it through his prison sentence without being killed by other inmates.

But for some reason its ok in the USA for the bizarre reason that American women (allegedly) have a sexual Fetish for seeing a flaccid penis with the skin cut off and the gland exposed.
(and I dont believe thats true for the new generation of women but thats what the parent will say to justify the amputation).

Personally, I am extremely proud and willing to support any Mens Rights Groups (actually Childs rights) fully and I highly commend all the people taking a stand on this.
If your one of the men who is not pissed off about it then thats awesome but Im saying for the men that are - its their total right to launch protests and look for compensation.

[SelfControl]

Can someone lay something to rest for me? Sorry if it's already been asked, but: is there actually any significant hygeine-based reason for circumcision, given that we live in an environment which is relatively disease-free?

[SelfControl]

But for some reason its ok in the USA for the bizarre reason that American women (allegedly) have a sexual Fetish for seeing a flaccid penis with the skin cut off and the gland exposed.
(and I dont believe thats true for the new generation of women but thats what the parent will say to justify the amputation).
I'm basing this on an episode of Sex In The City of all things, but I got the impression most American women manage to go through their lives without having to confront an uncircumcised dong. I know I might be being slightly hypocritical here, but how do we know this isn't a product of cultural conditioning?

Have to say, re your point about the Jewish custom, I can't really see how tradition makes it acceptable within the confines of a religion any more than does tradition within a secular, medical field, as is the case with US hospitals.

[Megara]

Can someone lay something to rest for me? Sorry if it's already been asked, but: is there actually any significant hygeine-based reason for circumcision, given that we live in an environment which is relatively disease-free?
i believe much of the hygeine reasons are past due, assuming uncirced guys take the time to clean properly.


There is evidence though, that circed guys are less likely to attract STDS. You can do a search on thise especially in regards to Africa and AIDS.

[okay]

That's the whole thing. uncircumsized guys have to exercise an extra step in hygiene. The first time I saw an uncircumsized dick (i was 18) I was a little grossed out cuz I was young and naive. My current Lover is my first uncurcumsized and I through being with him I have come to realize that it is an unneccasary procedure that I would never inflict on a baby. If I could go back and make the choice for my parents I would choose not to be circumsized. So I don't really think that it should be considered an infringement--that sounds too political. But I think people should be more educated about the fact that it is an unnecesary procedure. (pardon my spelling)

[CrazybutLazy]

I think circumcision at birth is a good thing. I also believe that all your finger nails should be pulled out at birth, and you should get slapped in the face several times every time you cry.

[Mental_Breakdown]

I didnt read any of this thread other then the origional post, but it still makes me laugh, What guy in his right mind gay, strait, bisexual, whatever, 'excluding masochists, and transexuals' would consent to having their penis mutilated, personally I am glad it was done at such an early age I have no possible way of remembering it.

[Grim]

Yes, it's an abhorrent little practice...and all the 'benefits' have yet to really be proven.
Parents who disfigure their child in this way are ignorant. Pinky toes don't serve much purpose either, so why not trim them off too? Earlobes are just pesky...why not trim them while we're at it?
Silly is what it is.

If the child grows up and decides for himself that it needs to be done, then that's their choice. But it's no different then slicing off any other chunk of skin from an infant - it's assault, and given the location - it's very brutal assault.

[Mental_Breakdown]

Actually according to the book The Naked Ape earlobes have high concentrations of nerve endings they where evolved in the human body as an extra place for sexual stimulation. And actually we should be chopping off peoples pinky toes, everyone line up!

[virgo_boy]

Ah no not when it has to be done. Like me when I was in grade one I had to be circumcisized I'm not quite sure on why as that was a long time ago but everyone just said it was because the skin (of fore variety) grew wrong.

[Bartendersrum]

Well, I think it should be mandatory.

[Panzer]

Bartenddersrum, why do you think it should be mandatory that every male have his genitals mutilated?

Greengodess, take your arguement and aply it to your self. If it was tradition to have your vagina cut up so that you could fit in socialy better, would you want to start cutting it up? Even worse, what if your parents made that personal desision for you? You know, your arguement could be used to defend any social custum, no matter how degrading or sick it is. I'm sure a lot of chinese girls had their feet binded so that they would fit in socialy, not get odd looks, and be more atractive to guys. It may be a little akward for the first people that stop one of these degrating customs, but isn't it worth it to society in the long run? If I sound a little defensive, its because MY PARENTS CUT OFF PART OF MY GENITALS WHEN I WAS A BABY. Think long and hard about that statement and weather or not it is a "healthy" thing that you would have wanted done to you.

[dances in pajamas]

It's very disturbing that some doctors will circumsize a baby automatically when it's born without even asking the parents.

[PariahHex]

I just think it's disturbing period. Parents should not mutilate thier children, and it should be a choice that an individual can make about themselves. I mean, if you like being circumcized, good for you, but to say that everyone should be circumsized at birth regardless of thier own personal feelings, then you need to seriously rethink your views on human rights.

[ElProximo]

It is disturbing and its also very peculiar that Americans just love it so much. (yes, i know some Canadian regions too).
Someone told me that Americans are STILL amputating boys at a rate OVER 50%.
Anyways,
Im not speaking towards Muslims and Jews here and I realise they do it but at least that has a religious thing there.
Americans are supposedly Gentiles.
Whats the deal there?

[mcugola]

I love my foreskin! My friends call me "the anteater"
I have 3 extra inches of foreskin

Freakish

I know!

[erzebet1961]

Ok...Ive put off posting on this thread...I had to have both my sons cut when they were babies....their foreskins were too tight to move to be able to clean them properly...and the doctor advised that this could lead to infections....I dont think I violated their rights.

[Panzer]

erzebet1961, since their was a medical reason you did the right thing.

[PsyGrunge]

i think circumcision for the sake of the jewish religion is fucking disgusting and yes, i do believe it is an infringement of male rights - especially if the male grows up to think for himself and realises that someone took part of him away for the sake of religious bullshit.
however, if the foreskin is too tight which would lead to problems in cleaning, therefore future infection - then i completely agree. it's for the best.
but i don't think any male should lose it because his parents believe it's the right thing to do as a jew. it's just WRONG.

[Rainbow Starlite]

I am quite against it, though penises don't concern me much these days ;)

[ruralblues]

I am down the middle when it comes to this subject. My partner hates that his parents decided to have him circumsized. I on the other had could care less if it was there or not. How can I miss something that I have never had before. And if I did have foreskin what is going to make it so different then not having extra skin? With the wonders of new cosmetics one might think that it could be reattached. If women can go and get theirs boobs enlarged then why can't a dude go and get a skin graph attached to his penis? Infringement that is hard to say. Cause most parents are doing it on the basis of religion or heritage of this nation.

[Samhain]

I am down the middle when it comes to this subject. My partner hates that his parents decided to have him circumsized. I on the other had could care less if it was there or not. How can I miss something that I have never had before. And if I did have foreskin what is going to make it so different then not having extra skin? With the wonders of new cosmetics one might think that it could be reattached. If women can go and get theirs boobs enlarged then why can't a dude go and get a skin graph attached to his penis? Infringement that is hard to say. Cause most parents are doing it on the basis of religion or heritage of this nation.
nation being where you live, don't foregt people on the net come from all corners of the globe and unless its for religious reasons babies in the uk are not rountinly circumsized
S

[makno]

rambo was ritualy curcumcised with a rusty tin can top by the viet cong .......he led a raid on the prison what he escaped from to recover his foreskin still held by the enemy ...

[minkajane]

Ok...Ive put off posting on this thread...I had to have both my sons cut when they were babies....their foreskins were too tight to move to be able to clean them properly...and the doctor advised that this could lead to infections....I dont think I violated their rights.
I'm sorry you were lied to. The foreskin is attached to the head of the penis throughout childhood. They're not supposed to move. There is no cleaning involved with the foreskin of a child - no pulling back and washing underneath. To do so would be painful and cause infection. Your sons were completely normal and the doctor lied so that he could circumcise them and get the money from both the surgery itself and selling the foreskins to biomedical and/or cosmetics industries. I know you were doing what you thought was best. It was the doctor's job to give you impartial, truthful information and he flat-out lied. *hugs*

[Grim]

I can't really believe this thread is still active....
Circumcision is mutilation.
-The foreskin is part of a very important area of a young man, and is often tight at birth. It loosens.
-It IS painful.
-It is not a hygiene issue. A man who is 'cut' and doesn't wash will get just as many infections as someone who isn't 'cut' and doesn't wash. Take showers. Problem solved.
-If you had to snip a child's earlobes off at birth for a religion, you'd be considered barbaric. This is absolutely no different. It is needless torture that is only accepted due to people mindlessly accepting 'the way things have always been' , or being too politically correct to challenge the norm.

People who circumcise their children are mutilating them. Period. You either made a mistake, or were knowingly doing your child permanent damage.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I suppose I am against it somewhat, but I voted no because I'm am personally not bothered by it. Uncut guys are a MAJOR turnoff for me. I just don't like the way it looks for some odd reason.

[doom876]

I think it totally is. Leave it up to the kid untill they get older! Heck, outside the US most places it's commun to be uncercumsized. I wish I wasn't, and will forever hold it against my mom. Yeah, some say"I wouldn't want it anyway", but what about everyone else who wants the choice? I also agree it's mutalation...may just have to try cutting my mom's earlobe off for that>:grrr(wont do it, but I think it'de be a fare trade off)

[extremely curious]

i guess i can see how it would be a violation of childrens rights but i was circumcised and am quite satisfied with myself. personally i think the circumcised penis is beautiful whereas uncut it kind of looks like a dog, which makes sense, but it's weird to me. all in all i guess i didn't add to this at all except to say a cut cock is a hot cock. but if you can love me right i don't care either way

[da baby monster]

i am completely happy with my naturally uncut cock :)