The Mesiah

[Colours]

If Elijah ever really came, do you think the Jews would just crucify him?

[forest_pixie84]

yeah i wonder too, because, isn't the thing about the jewish religion that the messiah will come (which puts it in constant present tense) or is it all metaphorical

[Colours]

Yeah, they are still waiting. Well theyre waiting for the profit Elijah, who will tell them who the Messiah is.

[Kharakov]

It's us. We are the messiah (Son of Man). First, you learn what it is to be the son of man, then you learn about God- what it is to be the son (or daughter) of God.

[the dauer]

It's not a matter of Elijah telling us who it is. We'll know who it is when all of the prophecies are fulfilled. But I'm not Orthodox and don't take it literally and while I find metaphorical meaning sometimes, I believe I am the one finding that meaning in the text.

Dauer

[Colours]

so what is it about Judaeism that appeals to you if you dont believe that youre going to be saved? Unless i'm mistaking the role of the Messiah. i dont know many details about the religion.

[the dauer]

The idea of being saved by the messiah is only found in Christianity. In Judaism the messiah is just a man who comes to reinstate the Davidic dynasty, rebuild the Temple, bring peace to the world, and also knowledge of God. The messiah does these things in the same way Moses did those things, that is God is doing these things for the messiah. Usually when I, as a Jew, am in dialogue with a Christian on the issue of messiah I try to use the word messiah to refer to the Christian idea and moshiach to refer to the Jewish idea which I will do from this point forward. The Hebrew word moshiach simply means annointed one, as in an annointed leader, and is used to refer to a number of other people as well.

Judaism doesn't state that people have to be saved but rather that it is for our own actions that we are judged. There is also no Jewish hell, but only a temporary place of transformation after which a person typically goes to gan eden which is the Jewish equivalent of heaven. But I am agnostic about the afterlife.

I am much more concerned with action and experience than I am with belief, and this is one reason Judaism suits me. It is also my religion of birth and so it is the ritual and theological expression in which I am most comfortable. And it should be noted that since Judaism is a tribal religion, the majority of Jews were born Jews and the majority of Jews don't leave. But I do believe in God, just not sacred history. I do, however, not limit myself to one view of history, nor do I assume I know all that I can about the events.

Since you do not know much about Judaism I'm not sure how much of an answer that can be. The majority of Judaism is liberal, so I'm nothing that unusual. It also doesn't have an enforced belief in a specific afterlife even among most Orthodox, and there's always an attempt not to talk about it too much because this world is what's important right now. But I think I'm ranting again.

Dauer

[Colours]

ah...I just learned recently in my world religions class that the Jewish religion does recognize an afterlife. maybe i unknowingly related the coming of the messiah like Christianity's resurrection of Jesus.

[moonlightdelerium]

Now, don't hold me to this, but I recently read that Elijah translates into ascension so it could very well be that he is simply a metaphore.

[the dauer]

Colours, Judaism does generally recognize an afterlife, but the beliefs about it are not specific, nor enforced. The writings regarding it are basically inspired conjecture. And it is spoken of very little. There is a line from Pirkei Avot (a tractate in the Talmud that contains teachings of the sages) in which one of the sages says to be not like a servant who serves his master for the sake of reward, but be like one who serves his master not for the sake of reward, and may the fear of heaven be upon you. Or something very similar to that. Fear of heaven refers to a deep awe of God.

It does sound like you made a connection between the Jewish and Christian idea of messiah. The similar language can confuse things, but the two concepts share very little in common.

Moon, elijah in Hebrew is Eliyahu or "Yahu is my God". Yahu is short for the Tetragramaton. But Hebrew names tend to have meanings so even if it did translate as ascension I'm not sure that would suggest metaphor. It could also be a reference to a Elijah being taken to God alive. But I'm making rather pointless conjecture since that's not what the name means.

Dauer

[Colours]

oops, i meant doesnt* in my last post =)