True Religion

[SDS]

No communion for those supporting capital punishment.

No communion for members of the armed forces.

No communion for killers.

Or those supporting killers.

No communion for sinners.

No salvation for mortals.

Reflection through provocation.

Evolution through reflection.

[MeatWagon499]

Whats the point of religion anyways? Faith in a higher power to give us some sense of security? I dont mean to be a dick in any way Im just trying to get my point across, but come on its kind of obvious that even if there was a higher power(s) then they would show themselves somehow to the whole world, and create 1 religion. Yet somehow we end up with a ton of religions all around the world, only to cause more problems then they solve. Religion is really pointless to me, but I guess if its your thing thats cool, I have beleif in myself for faith and thats all I need.

[CyberFly]

SDS, it looks to me like you have seen the light. :)

http://www.politicalstrikes.com/images/ps0987.jpg

[Jozak]

Or is just an idiot, who really does not understand the concept of Holy communion.

[bluegill]

hey, my buddy jozak, aint seen ya in a while.......gotta joke i think you'll like


what's the difference between a bad case of acne, and a catholic priest?

give up??

acne usually waits til a little boy's about 13 before it comes on his face.....lol

[bluegill]

religion is nothing more than a way for people to control people, has been since the begining of time and will continue to do so til the end of time, people have been looking for answers to lifes questions forever, and have jumped at the oppurtunity to capitalize on the beliefs of others for their own personal gains, this combination has scary results, brainwashed religious fanatatics that try to run the way we live and set the standards for what they believe is right and wrong, if you dont agree with what i think look at EVERY culture throughout history and how religion has influenced that culture, and who was in charge of that culture, in most cases it was the religious leaders, in other cases it was those leaders who guided the real leader, point blank all religion is, is a way to control the believers and have them work a particular will and not even recoginze what it is they are doing, becasue they think it is god's will.....

[Jozak]

That is just immature and really sick. How old are you? Grow up.

[bluegill]

24, and i think it's pretty damn funny.............

[sweatininthesouth]

LOL! great joke Bluegill. Sad in a way, cuz it's so true.

If a religion does not follow its basic and fundamental tenets or doctrines (i.e. Catholic priests harming and molesting children) then it ceases to be a true religion and becomes merely a "country club" for its members. I lost total respect for the Catholic faith years ago. Communion means nothing, because the religion is nothing...it's full of holes....its members fuck their own children....what kind of sick religion is that?

[Jozak]

LOL! great joke Bluegill. Sad in a way, cuz it's so true.No, it is a complete farse, but what is sad is your lack of intelligence.

If a religion does not follow its basic and fundamental tenets or doctrines (i.e. Catholic priests harming and molesting children) then it ceases to be a true religion and becomes merely a "country club" for its members.Well, that would be true if all priests or the majoirty of priests were doing that, but unfortunently for you, that is not the case. In fact, it is only a small (any is too big obviously) percentage that commit these terrible acts. (Who by the way, should be shot by the parents, if only I had my way.) Those men are not REAL priests. They choose this profession so they could have easy access to kids, and it makes me sick. They give priests a bad name, and it is truly unfair.

I lost total respect for the Catholic faith years ago. Communion means nothing, because the religion is nothing...it's full of holes....Communion means nothing to you, obviously, becasue you aren't Catholic you dumbass. Fuck you. I would bet any amount of money or my home that you don't know ANYTHING about the Catholic faith. You are so full of shit it makes me sick. Full of holes? Please. Who are you trying to fool? You make outlandish comments and cannot even back them up, it's pathetic--and your what, 47? You must have a real high paying job.

its members fuck their own children....what kind of sick religion is that?Your whole post is just dripping with stupidity. I, for one, don't have any children, nor have I fucked any children. My parents never fucked me either. I cannot recall a time when a Catholic parent fucked their child, becasue that is essentially what you are saying, that the 1 billion+ Roman Catholics around the world have incest with one another. Even if you meant priests, it still does not change the fact most priests are good men trying their best to serve their creator and their church. You need to get your facts straight before you post your bigoted crap on here, becasue you have a very, very small audience, thankfully. It is people like you who give people in the south a bad reputation and stereotype, and I live in the southern U.S.

[Jozak]

24, and i think it's pretty damn funny.............
24 means you are an adult, so why don't you start acting like one? Damn simpleton.

[Alexandria]

well, addressing people with "fuck you" and "you are stupid and an idiot" isnt very nice. Why defend religion and then address people in a rude and offensive manner? Not very 'holy' if you ask me.
I do agree that religion is alot of the worlds problem today. Sometimes I wander if mabye we just wont get the answcer we want. Mabye things just are not the way we want them to be and the bible was just written as a way to control the human population. I dont really know. I mean, the bible apparently has predicted events that have come true with revolation still to come....but so has nostradomus...so....yeah. I dont know if I ever will find the truth....but I hope I will. I am looking for it and praying for it.

[ganja fairy]

in my opinion, religion is for the most part a corruption of spirituality. if the intention of religion is for people to feel unified in faith, most religions do a pretty shitty job. unity through fear? thats real pure. finding faith is a personal journey, and realizing unity is something people need to come to on their own, and i think something that they will come to realize naturally. i really dont think organized religion as it is today helps people to do that.

dont get me wrong, i think theres something good that can be learned from each scripture, i just think that people should interpret things for themselves, and not be told what to think. and of course, praying together can only be good for people, if their intentions are good and real.

[Jozak]

well, addressing people with "fuck you" and "you are stupid and an idiot" isnt very nice.
Niether is making jokes about other people's religion, which you so nicely forgot to mention as well.


Why defend religion and then address people in a rude and offensive manner? Not very 'holy' if you ask me.
I never claimed to be holy, first off. Secondly, how can you complain about me responding to rude and ignorant comments? I don't see you saying anything to blugill or sweatininthesouth.

[Alexandria]

No, you never claimed to be "holy". But I would assume that anyone who is religious (especially when trying to defend that ) would try to uphold a certain amount of respect and kindness for others...(does "what would jesus do" ring a bell?) That is what I meant by 'holy' I guess. I mean, even if someone is being rude and stupid with you, it doesnt make it right to be that way back (especially attacking someone personally by saying fuck you,etc) Example: A christian knocks on someone's door and says "Can I teach you about the bible? There is alot of good you can learn and strive for." and the man at the door says..."NO YOU CRAZY PERSON! GO AWAY!" and the christian says "WELL FUCK YOU ASSHOLE....DIDNT WANNA TEACH YOU THE BIBLE ANYWAYS!" Now that is a bit of a stretch....But same idea. No I didnt say anything to the 'jokers' because this is first off a free speech site....they were not attacking you personally and they are not defending a religion that teaches you NOT to act that way. Second, this thread was sorta geared toward that kind of diatribe. Thats, all....just clarifying what I meant by that.

[bluegill]

probably because we don't get all pissed and start spewing at the mouth like some on here do at every little comment that comes our way....i for one agree with you, i am an adult, an adult with a job, almost 3 college degrees, bill's i pay, people i try to take care, and all that stuff, how about u? wanna go that route, when i was 18 i owned my own vehicle which i bought with my money, had my own apt. which i got basically by myself, sure my parents helped out a little bit but for the most part i did it on my own....unlike alot of other people who sit at home on the computer, waiting for mommy and daddy to pay to way for everything....so before you go start spouting the whole grow up shit and be an adult, you should really know who you are talking about....and i still think that joke is funny as hell...i gotta another joke for ya...

y'd the dumb blonde go to church........

(picture me standing with my arms stretched out to my side's as far as i can reach)

because she heard the was a guy there hung like this....... hehe

[sweatininthesouth]

LOL....another great joke Bluegill. You make me laugh!! And I won't even get mad at you for stereotyping blondes (I'm a blonde), as some ultra sensitive weenies on this thread seem to be (Jozak, why your panties in a wad hon!?)


No, it is a complete farse, but what is sad is your lack of intelligence.

hmmmm....you don't know my IQ level buddy....why are you so nasty?


Well, that would be true if all priests or the majoirty of priests were doing that, but unfortunently for you, that is not the case. In fact, it is only a small (any is too big obviously) percentage that commit these terrible acts. (Who by the way, should be shot by the parents, if only I had my way.) Those men are not REAL priests. They choose this profession so they could have easy access to kids, and it makes me sick. They give priests a bad name, and it is truly unfair.

Those men in funny hats and robes ARE CONSIDERED REAL PRIESTS by your little club.

Communion means nothing to you, obviously, becasue you aren't Catholic you dumbass. Fuck you. I would bet any amount of money or my home that you don't know ANYTHING about the Catholic faith. You are so full of shit it makes me sick. Full of holes? Please. Who are you trying to fool? You make outlandish comments and cannot even back them up, it's pathetic--and your what, 47? You must have a real high paying job.

You don't sound very religious, you hypocrite, using words like fuck, shit, you make me sick, etc. What kind of pathetic religion do you follow that makes you think it's o.k. to have such a trash mouth....maybe that pedophile priest you listen to says it's o.k to talk like that...now I know what kind of authority figures you look up to....


Your whole post is just dripping with stupidity. I, for one, don't have any children, nor have I fucked any children. My parents never fucked me either. I cannot recall a time when a Catholic parent fucked their child, becasue that is essentially what you are saying, that the 1 billion+ Roman Catholics around the world have incest with one another. Even if you meant priests, it still does not change the fact most priests are good men trying their best to serve their creator and their church. You need to get your facts straight before you post your bigoted crap on here, becasue you have a very, very small audience, thankfully. It is people like you who give people in the south a bad reputation and stereotype, and I live in the southern U.S.You're dripping with stupidity, JoJerk, because you're faced with the hard truth and you can't stand it. Your holy priests FUCK CHILDREN and you still think those priests have a direct telephone line to God. Open your eyes JoJam, and quit following your parents religion and seek the truth, not some misguided doctrine put forth my pedophiles. And what do you mean you live in the south....it says Czech republic under your avatar. And yes, I do have a high paying job you little weenie. I live in a 3500 sq. foot home, with a pool and I drive an SUV. I also own rental property in Colorado....so what does that have to do with anything, turdling?

[moonshyne]

Way too much negativity on this thread!! I can almost see it oozing from my computer screen. Jozak (is that right?) as many posts as I made in the old forums about certain people making the rest of us christians look bad, you were always there to agree with that but yet here you are spewing such nastiness. You don't know these people, there's nothing to get upset about. As long as YOU are comfortable with your faith, that should be all that matters.

Statistically (at least here in ameriKa) 1 in 4 children are molested. Obviously Catholics aren't the only ones with their fair share of sicko's. I live in the southeastern US, and there are plenty of protestant sicko's here, too. I'm sure there are probably plenty of them in every other religion just as well. (what's the deal with asian men and little girl's dirty undies? Eww)

You certainly aren't making yourself look very good or your religion when you hurl insults at people. You're really only reinforcing the bad rep.

[lunar forest]

I'm feeling the same way as moonshyne, here. Where's the love? Not being a religious person myself, I don't understand why everyone seems so hostile. I know it is hard when people are insulting to things that you feel strongly about. I know that is it difficult when people are seemingly blind to what is happening to them, and just following and believing something because they've never thought of anything else. What I don't know is why whenever religion is brought up everybody (on both sides) gets so damn nasty! I mean, peace, love, remember?

peace.

[Jozak]

probably because we don't get all pissed and start spewing at the mouth like some on here do at every little comment that comes our way....i for one agree with you, i am an adult, an adult with a job, almost 3 college degrees, bill's i pay, people i try to take care, and all that stuff, how about u? wanna go that route, when i was 18 i owned my own vehicle which i bought with my money, had my own apt. which i got basically by myself, sure my parents helped out a little bit but for the most part i did it on my own....unlike alot of other people who sit at home on the computer, waiting for mommy and daddy to pay to way for everything....so before you go start spouting the whole grow up shit and be an adult, you should really know who you are talking about....and i still think that joke is funny as hell...i gotta another joke for ya...

y'd the dumb blonde go to church........

(picture me standing with my arms stretched out to my side's as far as i can reach)

because she heard the was a guy there hung like this....... hehe
I see, so it's more like you have no respect for anyone else's beliefs, is that it? Why don't you post some Jewish jokes as well, I am sure sweatininthesouth would get a kick out of them. But again, it's politically correct to make fun of the Catholic Church, but not Jews, Muslims, or anyone else. You are just a small factor contributing to it.

[Jozak]

LOL....another great joke Bluegill. You make me laugh!! And I won't even get mad at you for stereotyping blondes (I'm a blonde), as some ultra sensitive weenies on this thread seem to be (Jozak, why your panties in a wad hon!?)
Are you honestly trying to compare a blonde joke to making fun of someone's religious beleifs? Your thinking is so black and white it's pathetic.

You're dripping with stupidity, JoJerk, because you're faced with the hard truth and you can't stand it. Your holy priests FUCK CHILDREN and you still think those priests have a direct telephone line to God.
WHAT TRUTH?! That a minority of fucked up "priests" molested children? I know that. No one is disputing that, but you are the one who claimed Catholics had incest, and that all priests were child molesters. As I said, MOST priests are decent men trying to serve god and their church. You were wrong. If you cannot plainly see how you labled all priests as child molesters, then you defenintly have an anti Catholic bias and hatred for the Catholic Church, which is totally, from what I can tell, baseless. That just shows your ignorance.

Open your eyes JoJam, and quit following your parents religion and seek the truth, not some misguided doctrine put forth my pedophiles.
You don't even know me or my parents. I have been to almost every Christian based denomination you can think of, even and Islamic service and studying theology is a hobby of mine. I choose to be Catholic. Again, you have yet to show me how Catholic doctrine, that you know so well apparently, was put forth by "pedophiles"--it's a totally baseless comment, how do you figure?


And what do you mean you live in the south....it says Czech republic under your avatar.
I am an American citizen that immigrated to this country with my parents. I am from the Czech Republic but I live now in Virginia.

And yes, I do have a high paying job you little weenie. I live in a 3500 sq. foot home, with a pool and I drive an SUV. I also own rental property in Colorado....so what does that have to do with anything, turdling?
Whatever, and I am going to UVA next year, I could care less what you have. You can have a million dollars and still be an ignorant bigot.

[sweatininthesouth]

Whatever, and I am going to UVA next year, I could care less what you have. You can have a million dollars and still be an ignorant bigot.
You're the one that said "you must have a high paying job" in your previous post and I was just wondering why you would say that? Your earlier comment didn't really connect with anything here, so I was questioning your reasoning about it.

Jozak, my original post in here was never directed at you personally, however, you came at me personally FIRST, with both your religious guns blazing, taking direct aim at my head. Totally uncalled for pal. My original comments were directed at the religion in general, not to a poster named Jozak....

I have a tremendous amount of issues with most religions, because they promote and condone so many horrible actions from pedophilia, murder, war, slavery, genocide, bigotry.... you name it....it's all done in the name of God and it makes me sick. From Catholicism to Islam, Judiasm and Christianity.....they have all contributed to the downfall of our society. However, that's not to say these religions have also done their share of good for the world. I just don't buy into any of it. That's why I'm a Pagan.

[-GOD-]

SDS -

Thy should not make such controversial posts.

WHY?

Good question, Maxwell!

-Thou cannot take a life.

Although I take lots everyday.

-Thou must not covet other Gods.

Although I accept covettage for me.

See, this is real complicated shit - that's why I made the Holy Spirit - he's like my bookkeeper and pr agent at the same time. Amen to him but his fees are hell...

Now, you be a nice christian and stop asking so many questions. At least stop asking those that I can't answer - God only as so many "phone a friend" options...

[DarkLunacy]

Churches are also denying communion to those who vote Kerry because he's pro-choice

[Maverick]

Churches are also denying communion to those who vote Kerry because he's pro-choice

I wonder why....

[Jozak]

Churches are also denying communion to those who vote Kerry because he's pro-choiceNo one who is a pro choice Catholic is being denied communion, however, outspoken pro choice Catholic politicians are, and rightly so.

[MeatWagon499]

10,667 abuse clames from 1950-2002
4,392 priests accused of abuse
all thanks to the roman catholic religion.

those jokes were attacking your religion, but not you. i think of religious people as just being confused about things, its not their fault they were brought up that way. im glad my parents let me figure it out on my own, thats how it should be. baptizing is just a sick act, forcing a child into a religion that he knows nothing about. kinda like a show on TV about the KKK, one person there had their baby in a white robe and pointy hat. i know those are two totally different things and im not saying the church is like the KKK, im just saying its wrong to force beleifs on someone.

and in a way religion creates war, because war is caused by cultural differences, and when you have people beleiving in all different kinds of religions it makes more unnecessary barriers between cultures.

thats just my 2 cents,
peace

[sweatininthesouth]

No one who is a pro choice Catholic is being denied communion, however, outspoken pro choice Catholic politicians are, and rightly so.
Your're just hopeless, Jozak. What a bunch of hypocritical venom you spew! So, it's o.k. to BE a pro choice Catholic, as long as you don't voice your opinion? **vomit, vomit, gag**

If that is what Catholicism is saying (don't voice your opinion) it make me sick. And it makes a mockery of the religion, again.

--Priest holds out communion wafer to a worshiper and says, "now jump" and worshiper says "how high??"---what a pathetic scene.

Your comment "And rightly so"---what do you mean, denying a man his desire to take communion. You just don't get it. All your little Catholic rules, are put in place by MAN not GOD. No wonder there so much hate in the world today. Who died and made you judge and jury.

[Jozak]

10,667 abuse clames from 1950-2002
4,392 priests accused of abuse
all thanks to the roman catholic religion.SOURCE?!

Secondly, my parents did not force it on me. We as a family stopped going for years and I got back in to it myself, but thanks anyway!

[rainbow doobie]

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone"http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Jozak]

Your're just hopeless, Jozak. What a bunch of hypocritical venom you spew! So, it's o.k. to BE a pro choice Catholic, as long as you don't voice your opinion? **vomit, vomit, gag** Shut the fuck up. I'm gagging from all of the false statements, again, coming out of your mouth. [surprise surprise!] I NEVER said that it was OKAY to be a pro choice Catholic, you idiot. Why don't you read what I fucking said, or, if you are to stupid to interpret it with some common sense, ASK ME what I meant? My point is, is that it would be impossible to identify EVERY Catholic who is pro choice. THESE ARE POLITICANS, THEY HELP MAKE LAWS--if they are blatenly going against a MAJOR church teaching, such as abortion nonetheless, then yes, they should be denied communion. You cannot have it both ways. Kerry has the nerve to call himself a Roman Catholic and then goes to a PRO ABORTION RALLY--that IS hypocrisy, you damn simpleton, can you not understand that? If he wants to have a personal opinion, FINE, but now he is helping to put that in to a law.

If that is what Catholicism is saying (don't voice your opinion) it make me sick. And it makes a mockery of the religion, again. What are you talking about? The Catholic Church has clearly outlined its view on abortion, which, judging from your lack of intellect, you probably did not know. It is up to the person weather they choose to accept it or not (ie: Kerry, goes to abortion rallies, then wonders why Catholic Bishops have told him not to partake in communion.)


--Priest holds out communion wafer to a worshiper and says, "now jump" and worshiper says "how high??"---what a pathetic scene. Your lack of Catholic doctrine is showing, and your bigotry is pathetic, not us Catholics who go to receive communion. It is not a communion wafer once we eat it, we believe in a little thing called transubstantiation (go look it up), and quit while your behind.

Your comment "And rightly so"---what do you mean, denying a man his desire to take communion. You just don't get it. All your little Catholic rules, are put in place by MAN not GOD. No wonder there so much hate in the world today. Who died and made you judge and jury.Well, if it's just a little wafer, what do you care? Go educate yourself, and actually know what the fuck you are talking about, then get back to the rest of us, you close minded hick.

[MeatWagon499]

SOURCE?!

Secondly, my parents did not force it on me. We as a family stopped going for years and I got back in to it myself, but thanks anyway!
didnt say you were forced into it, just saying that some catholics do force it on their kids, stop taking everything we say personally already

google "priest molestation tally"

just about every news site on there has it

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/26/national/main602477.shtml

[Jozak]

Again, I agree, it's sick. It was one study though, unfortunently, you must know that their are people out there who will lie and do anything for a buck as well, so I wouldn't put it past a LOT of people to lie about it. I thought this was interesting:

"About 4 percent of all American clerics who served during the years studied — 4,392 of the 109,694 priests and others under vows to the church — were accused of abuse."

Which means 96% of them....guess what, are just decent people trying to serve christ and the church.

[bluegill]

I see, so it's more like you have no respect for anyone else's beliefs, is that it? Why don't you post some Jewish jokes as well, I am sure sweatininthesouth would get a kick out of them. But again, it's politically correct to make fun of the Catholic Church, but not Jews, Muslims, or anyone else. You are just a small factor contributing to it.

well i guess in a way you got a point...i don't respect a belief that has no respect for any belief other than their own.....and 2, i have actually posted about jews and how their narrow views in israel have led to with the palestinian crisis, it's not that i dont like catholics, hell my whole family is catholic, i was raised catholic, but after an incidsent at my church, i realized how twisted the church really is, and FYI the priest that did my communion was in fact arrested at one time for indecent exposure, the charges were later dropped but it did happen, charges were filed by none other than a WV state trooper, , i think his name was father pat o'donnel, im not sure i will have to ask my mother, i know it was father pat though....another priest, father mike mc'Cormick, who was actually a real good guy i thougt any way, mysteriously ended up in a mental institution, then stopped being a priest, and now is living somewhere in the midwest andis doing good for himself, then they bring in this irish guy when i was a teenager, i ask a question one day before i was prepping for confirmation, a question/comment, on how the incident with atilla the hun influenced the spread of christianity, catholicism, and the power of the pope, and the bastard rushes me off to his office, has some bullshit talk about the divinity of the whole thing, and orders me to confession and penance????? i did it for my family, but after that, i never went back to a catholic church, and the older i get, the more i realize how religions of all types really do influence the problems of the world today, if not for everyones different veiws on how things should be ran socially or morally, people could actually get along in this world, but when you have different religions, teaching different ideas to people throughout the world we will always have this problem, and as long as their are people out there who fail to see the narrowness of the ideas that they try to pass on to society in the name of their god the problem will fail to cease.......but if people would stop trying to influence society as a whole with their own beliefs, and would focus more on prosperity instead of religous ideas then this world would be alot better place....instead we quarrel over stupid shit that conflicts with different ideals place on our society by religious peoples throughout the world, other people see this, take advantage of these beliefs, impose their thoughts on top of these beliefs, instew anger in the eyes of their believers, who in turn wind up like you, people who cant do nothing other than profess the divinity of their cause, and back it up with faith based facts that can be percieved on either spectrum of right or wrong...but as long as it agrees with what your religion says it must be right...huh?

[MeatWagon499]

yea i know it was only 4%, im just bringing up the facts about that. all the wars that have been caused by religions dwarf the priest molestation cases.

[lunar forest]

No wonder there so much hate in the world today. Who died and made you judge and jury. sweatininthesouth, maybe you should look at some of the comments that you have made on this thread. You seem hatefilled yourself while you are arguing this. I know everyone feels passionately about this, but you can argue and discuss without attacking eachother, can't you? There is a lot of hate in the world, but you all seem to be spreading it as much as anyone else.

Think about it.

[sweatininthesouth]

"About 4 percent of all American clerics who served during the years studied — 4,392 of the 109,694 priests and others under vows to the church — were accused of abuse."

Which means 96% of them....guess what, are just decent people trying to serve christ and the church.
I guess it's the luck of the draw to have one of the "decent" priests providing religious education to your child. If you're not so lucky and one of those 4,392 priests molested your kid, than it's just tough luck I guess. Even ONE priest molesting a child is too many in my eyes, and makes a mockery of the religion and everything it stands for.

I believe that since the Catholic and Protestant churches are engaging so heavily in the political process (like denying communion to a politician and making a political issue out of it, homosexuality, abortion, etc.) then these churches should begin to be taxed like any other American entity. It used to be that churches stayed out of politics and just focused on redeeming its members and providing a sanctuary of peace and solitude for its followers. But now, churches have taken it upon themselves to embrace their own political agendas pushing their beliefs on to their members and even alienating some in the process. I firmly believe it is time to start taxing them because they have begun to change their focus from religious education to political persuasion.

[SDS]

You can all be spared considerable trouble by going back to the point of the original post.

From an objective standpoint no self-styled Christian who denies communion to any other human being, supports taking the life of one's fellow man as by capital punishment or through service in the armed forces -- or who indulges in the moral judgement of any other person in this or any other way -- has any religious credibility.

"...and he lamented deeply when asked "What part of 'Thou shalt not kill' did you not understand? What part of 'Judge not that ye not be judged' did you not understand?"

[NatureFreak412]

wow I'm sure your God would be proud of this thread, especially since u Jozak are Catholic.;)

[Jozak]

wow I'm sure your God would be proud of this thread, especially since u Jozak are Catholic.;)
If you are sardonically mocking me I do not appreciate it, but you are going to have to explain what you mean a little better.

[loveflower]

my goodness.. i could not read your posts because they would make me upset, jozak what makes it okay to say those things? you do realize that you are just stooping to their level by saying things like that, right? why don't you be the bigger one? i'm think God would rather you love his creations, regardless of what they say. Jesus forgave everyone who spit at him and shouted foul things at him and made him carry a heavy cross and whipped him. 'father forgive them for they know not what they do', right? please forgive the other posters, for they maybe know not what they do

[bluegill]

i know what i'm doing........

[moonshyne]

quote from jozak
"About 4 percent of all American clerics who served during the years studied — 4,392 of the 109,694 priests and others under vows to the church — were accused of abuse."

Which means 96% of them....guess what, are just decent people trying to serve christ and the church.
The problem isn't so much the NUMBER of priests......it's the fact that the entire church as a society KNEW what was happening, but instead of dealing with this 4% of child molesting priests, they instead chose to IGNORE the problem and ship those dirty fucks all over the place.....i guess they have a high demand for fresh meat. Knowing that there was a problem but yet allowing it to continue is just as bad as doing it. Please explain how knowingly sending a child molestor to a different state/city is in any way serving God, Christ or the community?

[Jozak]

quote from jozak

The problem isn't so much the NUMBER of priests......it's the fact that the entire church as a society KNEW what was happening, but instead of dealing with this 4% of child molesting priests, they instead chose to IGNORE the problem and ship those dirty fucks all over the place.....i guess they have a high demand for fresh meat. Knowing that there was a problem but yet allowing it to continue is just as bad as doing it. Please explain how knowingly sending a child molestor to a different state/city is in any way serving God, Christ or the community?
I agree with you. It's terrible, and not serving Christ at all, but the entire church community did not know about it. Those asshole bishops are the only ones who knew, and fortunently somthing is being done about it.

[AT98BooBoo]

"All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God."Romans 8:23

That means priests as well as you and I. ALL of our righteousness is as filthy rags save for the blood of Jesus. All of us have the same access to God through Jesus. Priests don't have any more of a special connection to God than us regular folk. Jesus said that anyone that caused harm to a child should have a millstone tied to their neck and be thrown into the sea. Thats an awful lot of millstones...... And some folks wonder why people like Luther,Huss,Calvin etc wanted to change things...

[SDS]

Once again...the discussion going on in this thread needs serious attention.

The whole idea is to make the world a better place. For everyone. That's not accomplished by indulgence in moral judgements or epithets. About anyone. No matter how much they may turn your stomach. The ultimate goal is to make everyone a little happier and a little healthier without harming anyone in the process. Help in working toward that end. Figure out how to make it reality. That's the way you'd want True Religion to be. That's the way you'd want the world to be from the standpoint of any endeavor.

[Jozak]

"All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God."Romans 8:23

That means priests as well as you and I. ALL of our righteousness is as filthy rags save for the blood of Jesus. All of us have the same access to God through Jesus. Priests don't have any more of a special connection to God than us regular folk. Jesus said that anyone that caused harm to a child should have a millstone tied to their neck and be thrown into the sea. Thats an awful lot of millstones...... And some folks wonder why people like Luther,Huss,Calvin etc wanted to change things...
Martin Luther and Calvin? HA! Don't make me laugh. Those punks didn't know what they were talking about. Luther pulls one verse out of the bible and decideds to create a religion based on it, and predestination is a load of crap championed by Calvin. Great change indeed.

Priests are priests, they most certainly have higher standards to live up to than us, since they are serving God and the Church. Only a small percentage have molested children (Whom i think should be put to death) and yes, I would hate to see them at their judgement. As Catholics, we beleive priests have to power to absolve our sins in the name of Christ, as the apostoles did when Christ commissioned them to do the same.

[AT98BooBoo]

The Just shall live by faith. GOD brought that thought to Luthers mind. Luthers theories where based on the Bible as a whole not just on verse. BTW: The Catholic Church put a price on Luther's head. Now thats really Christ like. The Spanish Inquisition and the various other persecutions of non Catholics ie.. Hugenots, the Waldensians,Jews etc was really Christ-like as well. I don't agree with Calvin and his theories about predestination(and most of this other theories for that matter.) I know that the Catholic Church teaches that human beings can forgive sins but the Bible says that only God can forgive sins. Mark 2:1-11. Your're an intelligent person so I challenge you to read your Bible and think things out for yourself and not just blindly believe what an imperfect human being tell you to believe. God Bless...

[Jozak]

The Just shall live by faith.
Right, sit there, do nothing, and all you have to magically say is, "I have faith"--I am sure that is exactly what God wants.

GOD brought that thought to Luthers mind. Luthers theories where based on the Bible as a whole not just on verse.
The "Justification by faith" was pulled from a verse or two out of the bible, (I beleive, correct me if I am wrong.) Even if it was a whole chapter, who is Martin Luther to break and form his own church!? There are thousands of Protestant denominations, and all claim their interpretation of the bible is the correct one: No thanks.

Now, I am not saying Luther did not have some legitimate complaints: he did. The Church at that time had a lot of corruption that needed correction, and I guess you could argue in some ways Luther's split helped correct that. But seriously, the guy was obsessive: He went to confession numerous times a day, and wanted an easy way to be absolved of his sins and gurantee his way to heaven.


BTW: The Catholic Church put a price on Luther's head. Now thats really Christ like.
And it is very Christ like to split from the Church and form your own religion, and create a, "Sola Scriptura" beleif that is totally unbiblical--how ironic.


The Spanish Inquisition and the various other persecutions of non Catholics ie.. Hugenots, the Waldensians,Jews etc was really Christ-like as well.
Do you even KNOW about the Inquistions? If you did, you probably wouldn't be trying to stick me with that arguement. This is a typical fundementalist attack, since they (not you personally) cannot refute Catholic teachings, they attack the history. As I have said, the Catholic Church is far from perfect, and has made mistakes in the past, a lot of them, but what institution that is 1500+ years old HAS NOT? Come on man.

The Spanish one started in 1478, a state institution used to identify Jews and Moors (Muslims) who pretended to convert to Christianity for purposes of political/social gains and secretly practiced their former religion. More importantly, its job was to weed out real converts and protect them from the inquistion. (OH MY GOD, YOU MEAN THE CHURCH ACTUALLY HAD SOME GOOD INTENTIONS?!)

The fact is no one really knows how many people died in the Inquistions. Some fundementalist writers have estimated numbers like 95 million people died under the Inquisition--it's bullshit. Not until more modern times did the population of those countries where the Inquisitions existed approach 95 million. Inquisitions did not exist in Northern Europe, Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, or England, being confined mainly to southern France, Italy, Spain, and a few parts of Germany. Studies indicate that at most there were only a few thousand capital sentences carried out for heresy in Spain, and these were over the course of several centuries. (Now, that is not good, obviously, but much differnet than 95 million.

Guess what, Protestants had their own inquistions. Calvin not only banished from Geneva those who did not share his views, he permitted and in some cases ordered others to be executed for "heresy" (Jacques Gouet, tortured and beheaded in 1547; and Michael Servetus, burned at the stake in 1553). In England and Ireland, Reformers engaged in their own ruthless inquisitions and executions. Conservative estimates indicate that thousands of English and Irish Catholics were put to death—many by being hanged, drawn, and quartered—for practicing the Catholic faith and refusing to become Protestant. An even greater number were forced to flee to the Continent for their safety.


I don't agree with Calvin and his theories about predestination(and most of this other theories for that matter.)
Common ground should not be ignored. [applause]


I know that the Catholic Church teaches that human beings can forgive sins but the Bible says that only God can forgive sins. Mark 2:1-11. Your're an intelligent person so I challenge you to read your Bible and think things out for yourself and not just blindly believe what an imperfect human being tell you to believe. God Bless...
HOLD ON, we don't beleive HUMANS forgive sins. We beleive in Apostolic succession, and the priest has the powe to absolve your sins in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit, just as Christ commissioned them to. I suggest you go back and read your bible. Peace.

Jozak