draft?!!!!

[MagnanimityMan]

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg

=(.

[nirgal]

That's a hard one to call. Being a draft dodger myself, I've got mixed feelings on it. If it is designed as a national service, not just a military service, including options to work at infrastructure, social programs and the like, in exchange for free college or free health care or home buying asistance and the option to opt out with some type of restriction on eligability to gov. services (?), I MIGHT support the idea. It's all in the details. Also, having a military draft, where everyone has a direct hand in what our foriegn policy is, a real personal sense of sacrifice when we take military actions, rather than the way it is now, where nobody cares because everyone there has chosen to be there, it makes it more difficult to engage in military adventurism.

I don't like the behind the scenes secretive way they are going about it though. This administration is truly antithetical to democracy.
I'm sick of the nation state and the corporate state, when do we evolve beyond it?

[Scholar_Warrior]

Fuck those bitches!!!! If I were a young man today, I would look for a way out of it simply on the principle that you are not property of the government by default!!!

that is pushing it way too far!!!!!

vote Bush out of office before it's too late! or is it already too late?

http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL81/616617/969437/41026615.jpg

[Scholar_Warrior]

in fact, it occurs to me that if you resist and they put you in prison, you have only chosen between two prisons. true, one is more pleasant (or at least potentially less un-pleasant) than the other; but ask yourself - is it right that your government ("government for the people, by the people") automatically imprison you?

Fuck No!!!

At what point do the people stand up to their government? Will we wait until it's too late, like they did in Nazi Germany?

think about it.

[nirgal]

It's always that choice. Serve, leave or stay and resist. To resist, to stand against a powerful gov. you have to have the people on your side. Right now, most of the people have no stake in this war, someone else is doing it for them and they can continue shopping, War becomes background noise...... at least, with a draft more of the population would feel engaged.

I don't know how to get their attention.

[daisymae]

If anyone is planning to run, go South. I have read that Canada will not harbour draft-dodgers, so you'll be shipped back to the States.

[booshnoogs]

Arguably, being stuck in Canada would be worse than being drafted anyway.

[daisymae]

Arguably, being stuck in Canada would be worse than being drafted anyway.
Wow. That was just sooooo funny, I forgot to laugh. You are a card. ;)

[crummyrummy]

I think I am Immune to the draft.....

[luvndrumn]

Don't know about that, man. The bit that I saw had the upper age limit at 45. Now if you have a medical reason, you could be safe. Hope so.

[crummyrummy]

Nah, there aint a branch of the american armed forces that will accept people over the age of 35, as enlisted anyways...

[HoneySuckleBlue]

I tried to join the armed forces...but they would'nt let me.:(

[MagnanimityMan]

man. this is horrible.
if i convince some half ass, mediocre psychologist i have bipolar, woudl that work? i dont, but i'm quite the actor in my own little world, i'm sure i can put on a show.
goodness, i'm looking this draft dead in the face. healthy, smart, 18! =(((

i was wondering if i were to go oversea's (somewhere in europe, or even australia) AFTER they already stated and signed the draft, would i be safe?

[HoneySuckleBlue]

You could go 'group W' on them...go steal a tv or something and get caught, a small price to pay no?

[nirgal]

"Doc, I wanna kill. I mean blood and guts and veins in my teeth-Kill! Kill! Kill!! .........

[HoneySuckleBlue]

egggsactly!:D

[MagnanimityMan]

but does just leaving the country after they declared a draft legal? lets say ethan picked up and left to new zealand or, just anywhere outside of here. would they not permit me to? man that sounds horrible writting out... "would they permit me to". i can write on this forever, but... i'll leave it at this question =).

ps: group W...? is that dishonorable discharge kinda? commit a felony?
if worst comes to worst comes to worst comes to worst, i'll be graduating my practical nursing class in 3 days! i'll just have to take the state boards and i'll be an LPN! i can't complain about being a military nurse... it'll be horrible being forced to work and all, but it'd be inevitable if i find myself in the situation. nursing is alot better then the front lines, ay?

[nimh]

use your lpn ticket to get out of the usa now. that's what i'd do. travel the world. see the sights, enjoy life... dont look back. :)

[7river]

*sings*

"you can get anything you want

at alices restaurant."

[mariecstasy]

oh oh oh........when my pop was young, like 12, he was in massachusettes and got to meet arlo guthrie. not in a concert setting but got to really hang out w/ him

[WayfaringStranger]

thank god for bein 28, give me a little extra time to run, and still have the legs to run with. seriously though look hard into consciensus objector, and lie through your teeth to get it, im usually one for honesty but lying is better than killing.

[MagnanimityMan]

what about being a vegetarian!!!!!!!!! i'm not, but i was thinking about it... do they accomidate for vegetarians, =)))!?!? or do they just put em aside?

what about IBS?
or allergies?

lying is definitely better then being in camo, with a gun in your hand.

[HoneySuckleBlue]

Are students still exempt from the draft?

[luvndrumn]

ps: group W...? is that dishonorable discharge kinda? commit a felony?
The group W bench - it's a bit from Alice's Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie. The group W bench was where, down at the Selective Services testing facility (where you got in-jected, in-spected, de-tected, and ne-glected), the Army would put you if they thought you weren't moral enough to kill. On the group W bench, there was father stabbers and mother rapers, n FATHER RAPERS, yup father rapers right there on the group W bench.

You need to listen to the song (about 23 minutes worth) if all this makes no sense to you. It's a helluva tale.

[MagnanimityMan]

"weren't moral enough to kill" sounds hectic.

[crummyrummy]

what about being a vegetarian!!!!!!!!! i'm not, but i was thinking about it... do they accomidate for vegetarians, =)))!?!? or do they just put em aside?

what about IBS?
or allergies?

lying is definitely better then being in camo, with a gun in your hand.In the navy, they provide you with peanut butter as a meat substitute. Seriously.

[nimh]

Are students still exempt from the draft?
nope
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.
.
.
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[HoneySuckleBlue]

...there goes that idea.:eek:

[dirtybongwater]

In the event of a draft one should try and obtain Conscientious Objector status, which is not that easy to do.

A conscientious objector is someone whose core religious or ethical values include a prohibition against taking a human life and who, as a result, refuses to take up arms. In the past, two types of conscientious objectors have been recognized: those who refuse to take another human life but are still willing to serve in the military and those who object to taking an active part in any war.

You can NOT be granted CO status just because of political beliefs.

After filling out the Conscientious Objector Application, one must go in front of a committee that will decide weather or not to grant you Co status
It will not be enough to just appear before your draft board and say, “War is wrong.” After all, if a person wanted to serve, he would have enlisted as a voluntary recruit; therefore there is the assumption that everyone who appears before a draft board will do whatever he can to avoid conscription. Also remember that the board is under strong pressure to fill their quota regardless of your personal beliefs.
To document your desire for CO status, you must start early. Get some pocket folders, the kind often used for holding school papers. Make duplicates of everything you do or write that might show a core value against war or the taking of human life and keep at least two identical portfolios; it has happened in the past that a draft board will request your documentation and then misplace it, costing you your exemption. Also remember that you will likely have a very limited amount of time to file your claim and have it granted before you are required by federal law to report to an induction center. Foot dragging on the part of the draft board has never been allowed as an excuse for failure to report.

To prepare for it early one should

Fill out a draft registration form and, in the space designated for a second address, print in block letters, “I oppose war in all forms.” Get a notarized copy of this form (which will give it an official date) for each of your folders, then mail the form. Although the forms themselves are copied to a database then destroyed and not filed or filmed as they once were, this will help to document your opposition to armed service from the very start.

Obtain dated letters (notarized, if possible) from friends, teachers and religious leaders attesting to your opposition to war.

Write a brief essay -- two or three pages -- outlining your religious and/or philosophical opposition to war. Discuss it with teachers and religious leaders to make sure that grammar and spelling are correct and that the essay expresses your beliefs clearly and concisely. Then put it aside for a week and go over it again. When you are satisfied, get notarized copies for your folders. It used to be that you could mail a copy of such an essay to the central office of your religious congregation or denomination (and, I believe, to equivalent institutions such as the American Atheist Association and the American Humanist Association) who will stamp it with the date received and file it for you. Check with your clergy.

Write similar essays for school writing projects. Keep copies.

Write letters to the editor and articles for your school or local newspaper. Keep copies of all such writings; replace the copies with newspaper clippings showing the name of the paper and date of publication if they get printed.

Participate in peace activities. At the very least, keep a journal of every peace march, rally, protest, etc. that you attend. Note the time, date, key events and your reflections of the event. Provide a photocopy of the entire journal, not the original, should you need to use your folder.

Make copies of quotes, speeches and newspaper or magazine articles (with the publication’s name and date of issue.) With each one, write a few paragraphs explaining how it reflects or does not reflect your views.


With changes in technology over the last 20 years, I would also recommend the following:

Set up a website expressing your views. This can be as simple as a web version of your essay published on a free server such as Geocities/Yahoo, or a more complete site. I expect that the more content you present, the more of that content that is original and the better organized it all is, the better it will be considered by a draft board. Be certain to include not only the URL in your portfolio but hard copies of any material you write for the site.

Post to the Usenet (Internet newsgroups) on the matter of forced military service, the draft (or possible draft) and your opposition to war. There are a number of web bots that archive the Usenet, with the groups search of Google.com (formerly DejaNews) probably being the best known. Consistently post using the same email address and handle. Prepare a document for your portfolios listing this name and email address, along with directions on how to look up your posts from a Usenet archive. You may also want to list the subject headings of posts you feel express your views particularly well or provide printouts of the posts themselves.
Hope this helped!

[HoneySuckleBlue]

Damn, DBW...that was uber~informative!
Have you started already?

...do girls get drafted now that they are fighting for equality and all?

[dirtybongwater]

It will just be for the men



Starting with the list of registered men within their area who turn 20 in the current calendar year (i.e. are 19-20 years old), the draft board will start with the date listed as 1 and continue consecutively through the lottery numbers until they have obtained the number of draftees needed. These men will then be notified that “their number has come up” (this is actually where the expression comes from) and will be given a date about a month latter when they must report to the military induction center. They will have until that date to appear before the draft board if they wish to appeal the order for induction. In the event that the draft board runs through that list without filling their quota for the current year, they will begin with the list of those who turn 21 (i.e. are 20-21), continuing until they have reached the list of men who turn 26 and are therefore above draft age. If they still need bodies before the year is over, they will turn to the list of 18-19 year olds. At the start of each year, they will begin again with the list of those who will turn 20.

[HoneySuckleBlue]

We don't get to decide if we go to war or not but you boys gotta pick up the tab anyway...man that blows.

[nimh]

It will just be for the men



Starting with the list of registered men within their area who turn 20 in the current calendar year (i.e. are 19-20 years old), the draft board will start with the date listed as 1 and continue consecutively through the lottery numbers until they have obtained the number of draftees needed. These men will then be notified that “their number has come up” (this is actually where the expression comes from) and will be given a date about a month latter when they must report to the military induction center. They will have until that date to appear before the draft board if they wish to appeal the order for induction. In the event that the draft board runs through that list without filling their quota for the current year, they will begin with the list of those who turn 21 (i.e. are 20-21), continuing until they have reached the list of men who turn 26 and are therefore above draft age. If they still need bodies before the year is over, they will turn to the list of 18-19 year olds. At the start of each year, they will begin again with the list of those who will turn 20.
that's the way that things were done in the past, but as far as i know, this proposed draft will involve ALL men and women.

[dirtybongwater]

YOur right, the draft would be a lot different this time around, but it would still ONLY include MEN.

A series of reforms during the latter part of the Vietnam conflict changed the way the draft operated to make it more fair and equitable. If a draft were held today, there would be fewer reasons to excuse a man from service.
Before Congress made "improvements" to the draft, a man could qualify for a student deferment if he could show he was a full-time student making satisfactory progress toward a degree.

Under the current draft law, a college student can have his induction postponed only until the end of the current semester. A senior can be postponed until the end of the academic year.

A draft held today would use a lottery to determine the order of call.

Before the lottery was implemented in the latter part of the Vietnam conflict, Local Boards called men classified 1-A, 18 1/2 through 25 years old, oldest first. This resulted in uncertainty for the potential draftees during the entire time they were within the draft-eligible age group. A draft held today would use a lottery system under which a man would spend only one year in first priority for the draft - either the calendar year he turned 20 or the year his deferment ended. Each year after that, he would be placed in a succeedingly lower priority group and his liability for the draft would lessen accordingly. In this way, he would be spared the uncertainty of waiting until his 26th birthday to be certain he would not be drafted.

[nimh]

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, http://www.hslda.org/legislation/na...s89/default.asp entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.

the american draft:
not just for men any more.

the new proposed legislation is gonna shake things up in a big way.

[crummyrummy]

personally, I believe there oughta be a 2 year period of mandatory obligatory service for all Americans...deferment allowed for college....either do it before or after. After we could utilize the skills you gained in yer studies. Right now the Military(Navy at least) pays 100% of yer college tuition and fees, up to 12 unit/hours a fiscal year. Studies could be started in a part time manner while the obligatory service was being served. that should come to these people too. I myself am enrolling Wedensday in a fiber optics intellation course..net cost to me..155 dollars. Military service should not be the only option, but that would be an option, ofcourse. there are many many things that could be used to fill that requirement. There is always a need for bodies and intellect. Public works projects of all sorts and sizes. I bet every hospital in America could use bodies that get paid in the E-1 to E-4 pay scale. Even Forestry ould use people.....a standing trained conditioned group of people ready to go make fire breaks when fires rage, clean up after floods huricanes and tornados....And I would assume the Montgomery GI bill would apply to all these people too. Yea you gotta do it, but 30,000 dollars for college after makes it a little easier.

I have not planned this all out but I think it a good Idea, and could be made to work.

[HoneySuckleBlue]

Here's an interesting link and they have people you can contact for advise...

http://www.rcnv.org/rcnv/co.htm