In Memory of Little Rawan Mohammed Abu Zaed, Age 3

[Andrei]

This kept me up last night crying... take a good long look at this article and then these pictures...

AND BUSH & SHARON SPEAK TO US OF "TERROR"!!! (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1222713,00.html)

Dedicated to the Memory of Rawan Mohammed Abu Zaed, the 3 year-old girl murdered by the Israeli Defence Force May 22, 2004. May it remind us ALL of who the REAL terrorists are in this world!!!

http://www.greendirect.co.uk/palestine/images/Image83.jpg</IMG>

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040522/mdf574147.jpg</IMG>

http://rafahtoday.org/photos/death11.jpg</IMG>

http://www.amanjordan.org/images/palestine/pal21.jpg</IMG>

http://www.amanjordan.org/images/palestine/women3.jpg</IMG>

[bluegill]

in my opinion israel is who we should be overthrowing, if it wasnt for there zero-toloerance approach to dealings of religious tolerance the mess in the middle east wouldnt have escalated to where it is at now, but they feel that since Jews were kicked outta palestine some 1000 yrs ago or more that it is there place to take it back???? fuck that, if they wanna go back they should go back but leave the other populations/cultures alone, they should at least attempt to live in harmony not discriminate against, which regardless of what anybody says they do, fuck israel, we should bomb them, maybe then the mid-east would finally become stable...and dumbshit bush wont do nothin because because he dont want to piss off the american jews, well if they cant see what there precious homeland is doing to the stability of the world then fuck them too, just another example of how religious zealotry leads to destruction.....

[cynical_otter]

likewise..


where are the pictures of the children that Hamas shot execution style from various buses??

I remember Hamas bragging because they captured an Israeli tour bus,took everyone off the bus and killed them with machine guns.

One chilling person smiled as described killing both a pregnant woman who was cleary near the end of the pregnancy and killing a baby while his/her mother held him/her in her arms.both were ruthlessly gunned down.


perhaps this thread should be about ALL the innocent children both Israeli and Palestinian who have been murdered in this horrid pissing contest.

[bluegill]

but would the palestinian terrorists be taken in by the palestinian majority if not for the way that the israelis treat the palestinians? if the israeli's treated the palestinians with the same respect they treat their own, then the extremists would be more of an ostracized group than a beloved group.....kill the spider not the web......

[stilanas]

likewise..


where are the pictures of the children that Hamas shot execution style from various buses??

Everywhere else. We're quick to label evil palestinians "terrorists" and evil Isrealis "soliders" when really they're morally equivalent, one is just wealthier and whiter than the other.

[Wicked Eyes]

Hey, next time you talk about the 'real terrorists' try to remember that Palastinians walk into dance clubs filled with TEENAGERS strapped to bombs and blow themselves up, killing innocent kids.

Let's get the facts straight before we cry about how the Israeli's are the terrorists.

[bluegill]

the israeli's and palestinians are the same, the israeli's are just as much terrorists as any other extremeist org in the world, with 1 exception, they have the full support of the bush admin. if it wasn't for the fact that israelis treat the palestinians, all palestinians at that, as 2nd rate people, just above dogs, tyhen the palestinians would have no reason to act the way they do, im not condoning what the extremists groups do, but if i was in the shoes of a palestinian, i would be resisting the israeli's, israel has no more right to that land than the palestinians do, so why should the israelis be the ones to take full control over all of it??? becasue it says so in the bible??? fuck that, neither groups are 1 bit discriminate who they kill and where they kill them, the difference is that israel is a governing body, it should be above using the terrorists tactics it uses, especially killings in crowded streets in the middle of the day....so basically i support palestinian resistance, not the methods they use, but i understand their cause, and not all support those methods, if the jews would stop worrying about their god damn promised land and start worrying about world stability and treating all people the same maybe then the killing would stop, but what do they do, they take away what land the palestinians do have, tear down there homes, kill their leaders in broad daylight, suppress any peaceful demonstrations, so hell yea, i'd rebell, i know i wouldnt be letting any fucking group tell me how or where to live or what to do, where i can go, what kind of work i can do, let alone who or what i should worship, especially some kosher lardass......i'll say it again, fuck israel, they are terrorists, and not until they stop retaliating in the way they do, there will never be peace.........viva la`revolucion

[Taylor]

I am currently in Israel, studying here for a year so as to get an insight into the conflict and the issues in israeli society.

As someone who is probably marginally closer to this conflict then most of the people on this thread and who probably has a bit more insight into the conflict... I find it amazing that people who have no clue as to what is going on in Israel and the occupied territories still feel the urge to shoot their mouth off, talk out their ass and put completely uneducated opinions into the public forum.

There is one chief difference between the IDF and the terrorist forces and that is that Israel is from a recognised country (whether there should be a Palestine is a seperate issue - just for the record, I think there should) and the incursions into the west bank and gaza are often for the defence of the state of israel.

Don't believe me? how about what is going on in gaza at the moment? Yes, the IDF is demolishing houses which belong to palestinians. But why are they demolishing them? Because underneath those houses are tunnels which lead a) into Israel or Eqypt and b) are used for the transport and storing of bombs and arms that are used in suicide attacks on innocent civilians. Whether you agree with Israel and its stupid policies regarding holding onto the west bank and gaza or not, you can't say that innocent people, having a cup of coffee at a cafe deserve to be blown up.

The Israeli people are against the IDF being in Gaza. They want them to withdraw. How do I know this? I was at a rally in Tel Aviv last saturday which was run by a group called Shalom Achshav. That means Peace Now. There were over 150,000 people there. It was the largest peace rally which has been held since 1995 when Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a right-wing jewish extremist.

Things are changing and bombing Israel so as to "stabilise the middle east" - effectively doing exactly the same as the militant wing of Hamas are doing (killing innocent civilians) would not solve any problems.

-Tamsyn

[bluegill]

*Don't believe me? how about what is going on in gaza at the moment? Yes, the IDF is demolishing houses which belong to palestinians. But why are they demolishing them? Because underneath those houses are tunnels which lead a) into Israel or Eqypt and b) are used for the transport and storing of bombs and arms that are used in suicide attacks on innocent civilians. Whether you agree with Israel and its stupid policies regarding holding onto the west bank and gaza or not, you can't say that innocent people, having a cup of coffee at a cafe deserve to be blown up.*


so...have they found any of these tunnels????, i think the last time i seen any info on this matter the answer was no.....and like i said i dont support the tactics used by the terrorists, but i can understand where there anger comes from, and israel, being the governing body in the region shoulf have enuf sense to realize that hate feeds on hate feeds on hate...capiesh if the palestinians were treated like regular people, and given equal rights, and opportunity, then what would the palestinians be fighting for? nothing, would the terrorists ahve the support they have now? i think not, israels terrorists tactics do more harm than good, yet their leadership fails to see this, and to me it's sad that only 150k would support a peace rally when their country is in tyhe shape it is in, the akud party is = to the Baath party = taliban = republicans which in short sight means conservative narrow view on evey idea not their own.....

[Faerie Jane]

What about this infant slaughtered by palistinians?

http://www.geocities.com/mxlibr/shalhevet/pic/baby00.jpg
or this little girl that was shot by a sinper while in her fathers arms?
http://www.geocities.com/mxlibr/shalhevet/pic/baby2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mxlibr/shalhevet/shalhevet.html

[Maverick]

A tank shell hit a todler in the neck? Whatever hit it, it wasn't a tank shell. One thing wrong there....

[bluegill]

What about this infant slaughtered by palistinians?


or this little girl that was shot by a sinper while in her fathers arms?


that is real sad, but still the fact of the matter is that israel, being a governing body, should have enuf sense to know however that by resorting to the tactics it is currently using they are doing nothing more than fueling the fire behind the palestinian cause, destruction of homes in search for tunnels, indiscriminate collateral damage in broad daylight on crowded streets, a genneral suppression of palestinian people with a lack of respect to thier right to livihood to boot...like i said, if the palestinian people were treated like people and not animals, if they were given all freedoms and respect given to the israeli's, i fhtey were allowed to live like normal human beings instead of 2nd rate people, then what cause would the terrorists sects be fighting for?? if the majority of palestinians were happy normal people, would they support the terrorism used by groups such as hamas and martyrs brigade, or would they turn their backs to groups inciting more violence...these people have known nothing but suppression and discrimination their whole lives, with no good cause other than religious differences, if youi take away the discrimination, allow palestinians a role in government and all the amenities that come with being a normal citizen then the extremists organizations would eventually suffocate through lack of support, it wouldn't happen overnight but within a generation it would all be over, look at the KKK, what happened to them blacks were given rights like white poeple, they choke out, don't dissapear completely, but they have no influence on mainstream culture, the israeli palestinian situation is quite different, but it is stil lthe same basic thing, hate feeds from discrimination which feeds hate, and i think its bullshit that the US would support a country that discriminates the way israel does, regardless of what a pecent of a population within that group does, again israel is a government, it should be above using terrorists tactics the way it does, and it should be above discriminating the way it does, bottom line

[Taylor]

so...have they found any of these tunnels????, i think the last time i seen any info on this matter the answer was no.....Well... actually, yes they have found rather a LOT of tunnels - hence the large operation. Quote from Ha'Aretz, the main LEFT WING newspaper (meaning it's NOT republican or right wing or a supporter of the Likud party) says this:

On the eve of the intifada, there were five to seven tunnels for smuggling Egyptian contraband, but more than 30 tunnels have been built over the years since September 2000, according to a Rafah merchant who ran smuggling tunnels to bring in merchandise from Egypt....
...However, he adds, Israel's military pressure and the steps taken by Egypt against the smugglers make things very difficult for them....The IDF says that since September 2000, more than 90 tunnels have been located and shut down.Funny that... you haven't heard about it? Oh sorry... guess you aren't that informed about whats going on over here IN ISRAEL, living in safe little america.

here's a picture of it:
http://www1.idf.il/SIP_STORAGE/DOVER/files///4//31414.jpg
The tunnel, approximately 8 meters deep was dug in an abandoned structure.It is important to note that this is the twelfth weapon smuggling tunnel which was uncovered since the beginning of this year.

This picture comes from the Israeli Defence Force website which can be found at http://www.idf.il (http://www.idf.il/)

if the palestinians were treated like regular people, and given equal rights, and opportunity, then what would the palestinians be fighting for? nothing, would the terrorists ahve the support they have now? i think not, israels terrorists tactics do more harm than good, yet their leadership fails to see this, and to me it's sad that only 150k would support a peace rally when their country is in tyhe shape it is in, the akud party is = to the Baath party = taliban = republicans which in short sight means conservative narrow view on evey idea not their own.....Everyone blames Israel for the conflict in the middle east, especially after 1967 when there was the 6 Day War and Israel managed to occupy Gaza, the Golan Heights, the West Bank and all of the Sinai desert. Except do you know whats really rather hilarious?
The PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organisation) was created in 1964, three years before the Israelis occupied those areas. It's fundamental doctrine was that Israel had no right to exist.
The terror that we are unfortunately familiar with today started LONG before Israel started "oppressing" the palestinian people.

Why in 1958, 1959, 1960, 1962, 1964, and 1965 were there terrorist attacks on Israelis in Haifa, Tel Aviv, Golani junction 4 times, Jerusalem, Netanya and Herziliya as well as Safed and Qiryat Shmorner? Before 1967, before 'Occupation'. If occupation is the problem, tell me why Jews, after leaving the horrors of Europe were attacked by Muslim mobs in Safedand Hebron in 1929 before the state was even created as well as Lotani, Beria and Schem.

allow palestinians a role in government and all the amenities that come with being a normal citizen Well... actually, former palestinians (there's these things called "israeli arabs") do actually have a voice in parliament. There are 3 specifically arab parties in the Knesset at the present moment as well as other left wing parties who are advocates of equal rights.
Also, the people who are defined as palestinians are people who live in the West Bank and Gaza. Those areas are not actually part of Israel. They've never been annexed by Israel and so thats why the palestinians don't have the right to vote in israel... cos they're not actually Israeli citizens.

Only 150,000 people at a peace rally? Thats a hell of a lot of people. For ONE CITY in the middle of the country to have 150,000 people is huge. Israel only has a population of 6 million people and funnily enough, not all of them can turn up to a rally at one end of the country when they live at the other.

Please research the arab-israeli conflict properly before shooting your mouth off. There is no "akud" party, the democrats supported Israel just as much as the republicans do (look at clinton), Palestinian people are not the only victims in this conflict and by definition, the IDF cannot be a terrorist organisation as it is the recognised army of a recognised country which is accountable to the civil law system (unlike any other country, including the united states of america, where the army has its own disciplinary system which can override the civil one).

[bluegill]

[QUOTE=Taylor]

here's a picture of it:
http://www1.idf.il/SIP_STORAGE/DOVER/files///4//31414.jpg
The tunnel, approximately 8 meters deep was dug in an abandoned structure.It is important to note that this is the twelfth weapon smuggling tunnel which was uncovered since the beginning of this year.

--Exactly, abandoned structure, since jan......not during the recent escapades into Gaza....



This picture comes from the Israeli Defence Force website which can be found at http://www.idf.il (http://www.idf.il/)


--which is like a fox news report of the mid-east......



Everyone blames Israel for the conflict in the middle east, especially after 1967 when there was the 6 Day War and Israel managed to occupy Gaza, the Golan Heights, the West Bank and all of the Sinai desert. Except do you know whats really rather hilarious?
The PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organisation) was created in 1964, three years before the Israelis occupied those areas. It's fundamental doctrine was that Israel had no right to exist.


--if a group of people invaded your homeland, took control of everything and discriminated against you and your way of life, your philosophy, your religion, while at the same time telling you where you can live, where you can work, what rights you do and don't have, and feel that they are justified to do so, because a religion that holds no meaning to you personally tells the conquerors that they have the right to do so, would you feel that that country has a right to exist?????

The terror that we are unfortunately familiar with today started LONG before Israel started "oppressing" the palestinian people.


--yea, i believe it started when a Jew walked into a mosque and opened fire with an uzi if my memory is right, i think there was a stint of peace, then an extremist jew decides he's gonna take matters into his own hands, because you know how we hate thaose fucking ragheads, and kill a bunch of people at church, then all the suicide attacks started....



Please research the arab-israeli conflict properly before shooting your mouth off. There is no "akud" party, the democrats supported Israel just as much as the republicans do (look at clinton), Palestinian people are not the only victims in this conflict and by definition, the IDF cannot be a terrorist organisation as it is the recognised army of a recognised country which is accountable to the civil law system (unlike any other country, including the united states of america, where the army has its own disciplinary system which can override the civil one.

--so you feel that just becasue a group has the backing of a government, it cannot be a terrorist organization? ok mr bush....planting carbombs indiscriminatly, shooting cars and homes up with helicopters and missles in the middle of the day in crowded streets with no warning, destroying homes and livlihoods of millions of people all in search of a handfull of dissidents is not terror, its more like a fucking war crime, if it is OK to destroy homes to look for tunnels in israel, i guess its alright for the american gov, to destroy homes all along the mexican border becasue there are tunnels used to run drugs and guns? i guess it is ok for our military to go into canada and shoot up a car of terrorists in rush hour traffic killing not only our target but a few innocents who happen to be a little too close to the action.....i fucking guess

like i said, israel is a fucking country for christs sake, not an organization, it should be above using the tactics it uses, it should not discriminate the way it does, it should not encroach on what little land the palestinians have left, and it sure as hell shouldnt be shooting missles at cars during friggin midday on crowded streets, regardless of the circumstances

the problem with this conflict is that neither side will give an inch, and untli one side proves that it is willing to do so, without compromise, hesitation, argument and so forth, it will continue the way it has....but i feel that if israel proves to the arab world it is willing to change, accept their culture, truly accept it, not just throw a handfull of people in the senate or whatever they have there and yell play ball, and just allow the palestinians a chance a a better life without having to worry about getting from point a to b without being harassed by a soldier, then the palestinians will not have a reason to support the fundalmentalist groups, and will be happy with peace for a change and will basically ostracize the extremists over time making it easier to single out good from bad, but they cant seem to grasp that idea, the bloodshed wont stop no time soon regardless, but if they change the policy, the people will change, they are sick of conflict just as the israelis are, but they are also sick of being discriminated against, and until that stops the violence wont..........

and for future reference, all american parties will support israel for 2 reasons, it dont want to piss off the religious peoples who fully believe in israels place in the bible and right to existance, and the jews have all the damn money.... and most politicians wouldnt wanna take that chance at pissing those 2 groups off, becasue they sure as hell cant feel that what israel is doing is right, unless your george fucking bush, in that case it is ok to tap all phones and put little tracking chips in all of our skulls to document our every move and detail everything we say and do, as well as kill who ever we wanna kill whenever the opportuinty arrises.....then maybe what the israelis are doing would seem right, but to me and most rest of the world a fucked up policy leads to fucked up consequences period...