Kabbalah

[feministhippy]

Does anyone here actually study the Kabbalah? My rabbi says that I should wait until I'm an adult to study it. I'd really like to, though. There's a sort of romance in mysticism... I'm not sure what it is, but it's there.

[Chodpa]

Traditionally Kaballah is the Jewish esoteric path to finding God within. That really sums it up. But as we know the Western religions have strict structures and this is really more business than anything else. I mean, there's the same amount more or less of chemicals that make up a rabbi, and a pope as a leper, or a common person. So there is no difference between any of us as far as ultimate worth. But hierarchy rules in Judiasm, and you'll find it in Kaballah in the tiers of the Otz Chiim, with all the powers, and so on. But just remember that one is the Kether, or actually one is the primordial three rings which exist before the Kether.


Not sure if you will find fulfillment in this patriarchal religion as women really aren't allowed to study Kaballah in depth. AFAIK. I may be totally wrong here, am I?

But that shouldn't stop you as Western mysticism is rife with Kaballah, especially in the secret orders like the Golden Dawn, and there are plenty of books. There's never a reason to wait to study about God and our place in the universe. Study and question everything, and never stop until you have all the answers. Wait! is not an answer. Find another more sympathetic rabbi.

[Bohemian_Child]

my rabbi wouldnt help me and the local judaica shop wouldnt sell anything to me (ive been studying kabbalah since i was 16 and im a female... too young and wrong gender...)
but i love it. go to a library or bookstore. ive gotten several books i really like and ordered stuff online.

i cant imagine if i hadnt started studying kabbala what i would be like...

Oh and go to www.kabbalah.com (http://www.kabbalah.com/) www.72.com (http://www.72.com/)

im on kabbalah.com's mailing list and frequent the site.

theres tons of stuff you can get as a young female, its just harder... you kind of have to go above people's heads... and be careful :)

[dreadyjew]

Let's clarify here folks... Chodpa, it appears that you don't really understand kabbalah and Judaism too well. You speak of Western religions, and I would be VERY cautious including Judaism as a "Western" religion. Judaism isn't patriarchal, either. Some Jews and Jewish communities are patriarchal, however Judaism itself is not. And most certainly, the study of kabbalah is not. You are correct in making reference to business, however. There are far too many people trying to make a buck on the esoteric practices at the heart of Judaism, and pretty much ANYbody that says they'll teach a 16 or 17 year old kabbalah is just out to make a buck (or they're not really teaching you). Also, pretty much ANYbody with a website advertising their wares isn't teaching real kabbalah... Including the ones referenced by Bohemianchild.

Mind you, this is all coming from someone who is also not learned in kabbalah.

Really, the only true way to study kabbalah is to first gain a broad-based fluency in the Tanach, Mishna and Gemara. From there, you find a teacher to learn from who you feel comfortable with, and who probably doesn't have any books or websites or anything.

The reason you're being turned away is probably because you're not approaching the right people, though even if you did contact the right people, you would likely be turned away until you have enough learning in the less mystical aspects of Judaism.

The best thing to do is to find someplace to go learn in Israel, and find yourself a Rabbi. Get thee to a seminary!

All of this being said, allow me to offer a website of a Rabbi who is truly learned in Kabbalah. I have learned from him, and he is one of very few in our generation who is teaching the truth. His name is Rav Avraham Sutton, and his website is www.geulah.org.

Also, for anyone who tells you that you must be forty years old to study kabbalah, the Arizal, the most accomplished kabbalist of all time, died at the age of 39... Make of it what you will.

[Smudge]

Also, for anyone who tells you that you must be forty years old to study kabbalah, the Arizal, the most accomplished kabbalist of all time, died at the age of 39... Make of it what you will.
;) the One Jew who understood it 'perfectly' ''died'' at 33

[Kabbalist]

Does anyone here actually study the Kabbalah? My rabbi says that I should wait until I'm an adult to study it. I'd really like to, though. There's a sort of romance in mysticism... I'm not sure what it is, but it's there.Shalom,
I'm studying it for a while, check my name ;) Although it's very difficult to understand it at my age, and when you're trying to understand it by yourself, it's worth trying it. You don't harm anyone, so why wait til you're older? There really is some sort of romance, that's because it's esoteric: only a few people understand it. But it is not wrong to start, it's quite interesting!
Lehitraoth, Matthijs

[feministhippy]

Yeah, Judaism is definitly not a patriarchal religion. Part of the reason some people become Jewish is that the woman are generally treated well. Some synagoges are set up in a patriarcal way, but that is relatively few and it's not the whole religion. We're not all orthodox, remember.

And I've met more woman that study Kabbalah than men.

[gnrm23]

i don't know but i've been told...

studying kabbalah is "risky business" --- a lot of powerful energies may be awakened when focusing meditations upon the tree within, with its roots in the earth & its crown in highest spaces without name (ein soph?)...

the tradtional reason for restricting the study to older scholars was to avoid a sort of psychic burnout (similar to indian esoteric tantra/kundalini practices, in some ways...)

shalom

[Kabbalist]

a lot of powerful energies may be awakened when focusing meditations upon the tree within, with its roots in the earth & its crown in highest spaces without name (ein soph?)...
shalomEin soph was the total emptyness before the creation of the world.

[gnrm23]

isn't it at the "top of the tree" ?

perhaps analogous to "the shining void" in tibetan buddhism to an extent...

[feministhippy]

I think the real reason the restrict Kabbalah study is that a lot of people study it instead of Torah, as opposed to studying it with the Torah, as it was intended.

[sylvanlightning]

Sophia
~*

A template of eyes,
wave matrix of ethereal manifestation,
unfolds as potentiality.

Shekinah of the holy breath acts,
shining beyond the center of will,
surrendered to the universal causation.

Brilliant unities, chorded enochian,
are lawfully transliterated as an inter-folding,
symbolic, chameleon-language clarity.
Crowning nimbus of the unspoken word instantaneous.

Gaze piercing the veils ephemeral.
Honorable presence which cradles all.
She forgotten, remembers the duty
of anointing, with fire, the prepared.

Left hand path of Kali and Rose.
Right hand path of Mother and Caduceus.
These inner roles of being are essential.

Inside her sacred breast
the immortal child
is born witnessing, anew.

What can be said of Wisdom?
She is beyond Binah,
for a tree is only knowledge.

She who would be honored
must be allowed, within,
as baptism of burning.

~* Shalom
(Inspired by Alex Grey in his artwork "Sacred Mirrors")

[SpiralSpirit]

I love Alex Gray's paintings, but...

Why the poetry about Kaballah?

[sylvanlightning]

Sophia is a very modern image for me. I love to share what I see. It felt right so it flowed. Would you like to offer your insight for this forum?

[Kabbalist]

Sophia is a very modern image for me. I love to share what I see. It felt right so it flowed. Would you like to offer your insight for this forum?
It's beautiful poetry! Thanks for sharing it, I printed it and I read it over again before going to bed! Thanks

[SpiralSpirit]

It just seems like its a poem about the sacred mirrors rather then kabbalah.

There are some strange and very un-jewish/kaballah-ish things about it. It seems more like a poem, beautifully written, but still just calling on too many catch-phrases and popular ideas.

"baptism" is most definately not a jewish idea, and doesnt belong in real kaballah.

alot of it is sophistry and semantics. Please explore for us what you mean by "wave matrix" and how that ties into anything but theoretical physics and mathematics.

" Shekinah of the holy breath acts,"
Shechina meaning god's presence, you are saying "gods presence of the holy breath" huh?

I'm really trying not to come down to hard and seem like a total ass, its just that when you come into a religion and start adding your own things, it soon becomes something else entirely. It is a beautiful poem, but really not much more then that.

also what really got me was mention of caduceus, which i know is the medical symob with the rod and the snakes. In more modern hebrew it sounds like "cadoochas", which is a slang for "kadachat", meaning..."shit".

[sylvanlightning]

In particular it is my poetic interpretation of what I saw and experienced when I embraced "Sophia" in Alex Greys' work "Sacred Mirrors."

Thanks for any mention of beauty for this poem.
My intention was but to share.

Baptism has multiple definitions many of which relate to personal spiritual cleansing or an ordeal one goes through.

In this forum my conception of the "wave matrix" would be similar to the function of Daath on the tree. More of a field between vibration intensities.. similar to ether or a void which light travels through.

Yes, the holy breath or the animating life-force.
I would enjoy your view of Shekinah or Shechina.

I do not claim orthodox thought here nor a possession of wisdom. I do like to communicate and share.

The caduceus symbol for me would be the spine as well as the brain... with the wings being consciousness.

~*
All in love with bright blessings

[SpiralSpirit]

none of which has anything to do with kaballah...

[sylvanlightning]

none of which has anything to do with kaballah...

does the kaballah exclude anything?

[SpiralSpirit]

unless you study with madonna...just about everything that isnt jewish.

[Kabbalist]

unless you study with madonna...just about everything that isnt jewish.Madonna rocks! Don't mess with Madonna!

[sylvanlightning]

none of which has anything to do with kaballah...

I disagree.

Shalom

[sylvanlightning]

unless you study with madonna...just about everything that isnt jewish.

How can YWVH create something apart from itself?

Shalom and Bright Blessings

[the dauer]

Sylvan, I don't see how your question to spiralspirit is relevant. Non-Jewish ideas are not kabalah.

Gnosticism and Kabalah are two different systems. That merkabah mysticism may have influenced the gnostics or that the gnostics may have influenced the kabalists has nothing to do with kabalah, unless you are studying the History of Jewish mysticism or gnosticism, which seems to be rewritten often enough.

In the same way, Roman pagan practices don't have anything to do with modern Christianity. And if a Christian were to speak of Dionysus and how drinking his blood and eating his flesh was part of Christianity, that would be wrong as well. So would saying that in reality modern Christmas is actually Saturnalia, and so all Saturnalian practices are relevant to Christmas.

Jewish mysticism is Jewish. Kabalah is the name for Jewish mysticism. If you start talking about Gnosticism or baptisms, and especially if you mention many things out of their Jewish context, then it is no longer kabalah.

It dissapoints me that the word itself often loses that connection.

Dauer

[sylvanlightning]

Sylvan, I don't see how your question to spiralspirit is relevant. Non-Jewish ideas are not kabalah.

Gnosticism and Kabalah are two different systems. That merkabah mysticism may have influenced the gnostics or that the gnostics may have influenced the kabalists has nothing to do with kabalah, unless you are studying the History of Jewish mysticism or gnosticism, which seems to be rewritten often enough.

Jewish mysticism is Jewish. Kabalah is the name for Jewish mysticism. If you start talking about Gnosticism or baptisms, and especially if you mention many things out of their Jewish context, then it is no longer kabalah.

It dissapoints me that the word itself often loses that connection.

Dauer

Dauer,

How is this not a relevant question? I see Spinozas' Monad, YWVH, or which ever sacred name you choose to use, as everything. Do you disagree?

The Gnostic passage was quoted from the artist, not me, for further insight. It has now been removed.

I was offering the poem because it applies to this thread.

How is Baptism different from anointing? Just because a word has a semantic charge doesn't mean it invalidates the full dictionary definition. I provided insight prior which has been side-stepped. Should I remove this too... or change it to anointing just because of how it is commonly used? I wouldn't have presented anything in this forum had I felt that I would be stereotyped. I thought this thread would be more open and mystical, not so rational and closed. Why can't essence be shared without everyone becoming so defensive. I meant absolutely no disrespect for your perception.

Sophia is the greek word for Wisdom.

Here are quotes where Wisdom is mentioned.

Proverbs

3:13-26

3:13 Happy are those who find wisdom, and those who get understanding, 3:14 for her income is better than silver, and her revenue better than gold. 3:15 She is more precious than jewels, and nothing you desire can compare with her. 3:16 Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor. 3:17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. 3:18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called happy. 3:19 The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding he established the heavens; 3:20 by his knowledge the deeps broke open, and the clouds drop down the dew. 3:21 My child, do not let these escape from your sight: keep sound wisdom and prudence, 3:22 and they will be life for your soul and adornment for your neck. 3:23 Then you will walk on your way securely and your foot will not stumble. 3:24 If you sit down, you will not be afraid; when you lie down, your sleep will be sweet. 3:25 Do not be afraid of sudden panic, or of the storm that strikes the wicked; 3:26 for the LORD will be your confidence and will keep your foot from being caught.

4:5-9

4:5 Get wisdom; get insight: do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth. 4:6 Do not forsake her, and she will keep you; love her, and she will guard you. 4:7 The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom, and whatever else you get, get insight. 4:8 Prize her highly, and she will exalt you; she will honor you if you embrace her. 4:9 She will place on your head a fair garland; she will bestow on you a beautiful crown."

7:4-5

7:4 Say to wisdom, "You are my sister," and call insight your intimate friend, 7:5 that they may keep you from the loose woman, from the adulteress with her smooth words.

8:1-36

8:1 Does not wisdom call, and does not understanding raise her voice? 8:2 On the heights, beside the way, at the crossroads she takes her stand; 8:3 beside the gates in front of the town, at the entrance of the portals she cries out: 8:4 "To you, O people, I call, and my cry is to all that live. 8:5 O simple ones, learn prudence; acquire intelligence, you who lack it. 8:6 Hear, for I will speak noble things, and from my lips will come what is right; 8:7 for my mouth will utter truth; wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8:8 All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing twisted or crooked in them. 8:9 They are all straight to one who understands and right to those who find knowledge. 8:10 Take my instruction instead of silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold; 8:11 for wisdom is better than jewels, and all that you may desire cannot compare with her. 8:12 I, wisdom, live with prudence, and I attain knowledge and discretion. 8:13 The fear of the LORD is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate. 8:14 I have good advice and sound wisdom; I have insight, I have strength. 8:15 By me kings reign, and rulers decree what is just; 8:16 by me rulers rule, and nobles, all who govern rightly. 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me. 8:18 Riches and honor are with me, enduring wealth and prosperity. 8:19 My fruit is better than gold, even fine gold, and my yield than choice silver. 8:20 I walk in the way of righteousness, along the paths of justice, 8:21 endowing with wealth those who love me, and filling their treasuries. 8:22 The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of long ago. 8:23 Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth. 8:24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. 8:25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth-- 8:26 when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world's first bits of soil. 8:27 When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, 8:28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, 8:29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, 8:30 then I was beside him, like a master worker; and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always, 8:31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the human race. 8:32 And now, my children, listen to me: happy are those who keep my ways. 8:33 Hear instruction and be wise, and do not neglect it. 8:34 Happy is the one who listens to me, watching daily at my gates, waiting beside my doors. 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life and obtains favor from the LORD; 8:36 but those who miss me injure themselves; all who hate me love death."

9:1-6

9:1 Wisdom has built her house, she has hewn her seven pillars. 9:2 She has slaughtered her animals, she has mixed her wine, she has also set her table. 9:3 She has sent out her servant girls, she calls from the highest places in the town, 9:4 "You that are simple, turn in here!" To those without sense she says, 9:5 "Come, eat of my bread and drink of the wine I have mixed. 9:6 Lay aside immaturity, and live, and walk in the way of insight."

24:3-7

24:3 By wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; 24:4 by knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches. 24:5 Wise warriors are mightier than strong ones, and those who have knowledge than those who have strength; 24:6 for by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory. 24:7 Wisdom is too high for fools; in the gate they do not open their mouths.

Shalom

[the dauer]

I see the question as not relevant because you were responding to her statement that, unless you study with Madonna, anything that is not Jewish is not kabalah. And I thought you may have misunderstood her.

Baptism is not an annointment in the sense of people being annointed in the bible. Baptism comes specifically from the ritual bath, the mikvah. But it has very different implications because Christian theology gave it extra meaning. In Judaism, it is simply a tool for purification from a state of ritual uncleaness to ritual cleaness. It is difficult, in English, when dealing with words like clean and unclean because it seems like a value judgement. But it isn't.

You have to understand that in the Jewish community there are a number of people who are irritated by things like the Kabalah center, and anything that seems like it's drifting away from actual kabalah, watering it down or getting away from what it's actually about, may become annoyed. It was at one time limited to people over 40 who were married, and the source texts themselves are often very dense and difficult to parse.

If you are talking about the sefirah, you may wish to say hokhmah instead of sophia. I don't know what your background is, so I don't know if I need to tell you that. I also don't know what sophia means to you so what I have told you may be incorrect.

I am still working on my own understanding of HaShem so I cannot answer your question. Although I do feel it is lacking to say He is only everything and nothing more. I cannot go down that road with you currently.

[sylvanlightning]

Baptism is not an annointment in the sense of people being annointed in the bible. Baptism comes specifically from the ritual bath, the mikvah. But it has very different implications because Christian theology gave it extra meaning. In Judaism, it is simply a tool for purification from a state of ritual uncleaness to ritual cleaness. It is difficult, in English, when dealing with words like clean and unclean because it seems like a value judgement. But it isn't.

If you are talking about the sefirah, you may wish to say hokhmah instead of sophia. I don't know what your background is, so I don't know if I need to tell you that. I also don't know what sophia means to you so what I have told you may be incorrect.


Thank you for your insights and time. You have opened the thread with your personal sharing. I feel your sincerity.

This poem sought to explore the energetic mikvah, becoming the burning bush, the purification of dross that comes from devotion. Images of feeling the pillar of flame enveloping one.

"3:18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called happy. 3:19 The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding he established the heavens"

From my interpretation of this, there are two Wisdoms. One that acted, by direction, to create the template of the tree as well as a sefirah on the tree. Personal and Universal.

[the dauer]

From a kabbalistic POV, if I am reading this correctly, wisdom is Hokhmah and understanding is binah. That makes sense because they are both below Keter. You may wish to refer to this:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Sefirot/Sefirot.html

I don't know what the implications are in that system because I'm not heavily into kabbalah. I'm sure there's a sefer with the answers, or better, a legitimate teacher. There are many books out, and many are poor volumes. I don't remember if it was this thread or another, but on this board somebody posted a link to a place that teaches real kabbalah.

I am asking this and please don't take offense. Are you Jewish? If not, why are you interested in kabbalah?

[sylvanlightning]

From a kabbalistic POV, if I am reading this correctly, wisdom is Hokhmah and understanding is binah. That makes sense because they are both below Keter. You may wish to refer to this:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Sefirot/Sefirot.html


Pardon my delay in responding. You raise a very interesting point. I selected Binah, for this poem, for that was the Sefirot for Mother and is on the side of the path Beth. In Proverbs Wisdom is given the title She. However, you are right... I've checked a number of sources and Hokhmah is the Sefirot for Wisdom...

I've taken up way more than my share of this thread. Peace and Blessings.
I appricate any feedback that was given and will leave you now.

Shalom