Why do you need to be awesome to make lsd?

[StonerBill]

i mean.. i keep reading that you need to be a really qualified scientist to make lsd. why is this? i mean, what physical processes can be done by a.. chemist.. but not anyone else? to chemists have better stiring action? can they see in ultra violet?

cant a scientist write a very precise list of instructions and anyone with the equiptment could follow those instructions and make it?

arent chemist scholars only important in the descovery of the chemical? which part of the production process requires physical skills learnt in chemistry?

[ahimsa]

This is kinda like saying, "I have 10 fingers, why can't I play the piano like mozart?"

[AceAzamean]

The answer lies within your question my young one! I'll show you.


i mean.. i keep reading that you need to be a really qualified scientist to make lsd. why is this? i mean, what physical processes can be done by a.. chemist.. but not anyone else? to chemists have better stiring action? can they see in ultra violet?

cant a scientist write a very precise list of instructions and anyone with the equiptment could follow those instructions and make it?

arent chemist scholars only important in the descovery of the chemical? which part of the production process requires physical skills learnt in chemistry?
There it is. Most people dont have the needed equipment, so they try to make it, and things go wrong. could blow up, could make bad bad chemicals and not lsd, could just not plain work. Also, to get the equipment, and get the needed ingredients you need to be a chemist, and have a legit reason for having those compounds (all needed to make it). This all still requires money, regardless of who you are, and being too complex of a procedure for any novice, most give up after attempt 1, 2 or 3, and it could take several tries for a knave to get it correct, which they dont want to pay for.

[Sycth]

http://www.entheogen.com/articles/pre-2004/conversations.html

he says its easy

[Primus]

1) Unavailibilty of supplies
2) Lack of knowledge. LSD is one of the hardest drugs to synthesize.
3) Lack of want to make LSD. A lot of time, effort, money, and possible failure are involved. Why not get started today making speed?

I have several LSD synthesises on my computer. I'd be glad to email them to you, if you feel you can use them. Here's a bit from one of them.

To a solution of 3-methoxycarbonylindole (7.0g, 40.0mmol) in TFA was added Thallium(III) trifluoroacetate (32.6g, 60.0 mmol) in TFA (140 ml), and the mixture was stirred for 2 hours at r.t. After TFA was evaporated in vacuo, a dark brown oil was obtained. This oil was suspended in 450 ml H2O, and KI (19.9 g, 120.0 mmol) was added to this suspension. The reaction was stirred at r. t. for 2 hours. CH2Cl2:MeOH (95:5, v/v) (300 ml) was added to the reaction mixture and insoluble precipitates were filtered off through a plug of celite. The organic layer was separated and washed with aq. sodium thiosulfate then brine. Removal of the solvent left a brownish solid. Quick purification by a short plug of silica gel afforded a white solid (8.68g) as 4-iodo-indole-3-carboxylic acid methyl ester in 72.1% yield. This material was used directly in the next step. To a solution of 4-iodo-indole-3-carboxylic acid methyl ester (6.02g, 20.0 mmol) in 200 ml methanol was added 200 ml of 40% aq. NaOH. The reaction was refluxed for 1.5 h with stirring. After evaporation of the solvent, the residue was poured into 200 ml water, and extracted with CH2Cl2:MeOH (95:5, v/v; 200 ml x 3). The extract was washed with brine, dried over Na2SO4, and evaporated in vacuo to leave an off-white solid. Purification by chromatography using hexane : ethyl acetate (6:1) afforded a white crystalline solid (3.51g) in 72.3% yield. Understand it? Did you even understand one whole sentance?

[Sycth]

my chem teacher says she made it in college back in the 60s

[crummyrummy]

bingo, 40 years ago before the neccesary tools and chemicals were watched by the DEA. You do realize that all supliers of such ARE REQUIRED BY LAW to report everytime some one even tries to purchase said equipment and chemicals. Not just who they selll to, but who tries and fails. yeah, I reccomend you stick with extracting LSA or buying your cid.

[StonerBill]

my main qualm was with the assumption that you need to be hotshit scientist to make the stuff. not to get the ingredients. its nothing like having 10 fingers and playing like mozart. you just have to make the lsd, its a single compound, you dont have to have the thinkning skills of a playing musician. just like almost anyone can construct a treehouse from a kit from a hardware store, or follow some instructions to a cooking recipe.

obviosuly a good scientist would be able to notice problems in experimentation and act apon them well, but if an exact procedure was given, and you knew it wasnt some random internet guide., it should be possible for anyone with the resources to make the stuff.

[gnrm23]

augustus stanley owsley III was not a college-educated chemist...
he did have a couple intense dinner conversations with folks who did have PhDs & wanted to ensure that the SF 60s experiment got off to a good start...
;)
good lab technique, some grasp of the underlying molecular transformations, the ability to read and understand lab procedure write-ups (& the ability to keep decent lab notes yourself) - these are all a great help in the challenging field of free-lance chemistry... (as well as the ability to obtain the necessary & to keep a very low profile, authorities-wise...)

[Primus]

my main qualm was with the assumption that you need to be hotshit scientist to make the stuff. not to get the ingredients. its nothing like having 10 fingers and playing like mozart. you just have to make the lsd, its a single compound, you dont have to have the thinkning skills of a playing musician. just like almost anyone can construct a treehouse from a kit from a hardware store, or follow some instructions to a cooking recipe.

obviosuly a good scientist would be able to notice problems in experimentation and act apon them well, but if an exact procedure was given, and you knew it wasnt some random internet guide., it should be possible for anyone with the resources to make the stuff.Read my above post. Those are some instructions, and if you don't understand those, you can't make LSD. Also you don't "just have to make LSD", its very complicated.

Like you said, there are some cooking recipes that you can easily understand, but there are also many you would never understand or be able to do. Just like that, LSD isn't mixed baking soda and vineger.

"you dont have to have the thinkning skills of a playing musician" - actually I think that's a very good point, except you do need those skills.

[crackforkids]

wow......just wow.

[RoBoWaLkEr]

Yeah, seriously guy...just forget about it. Even if you somehow could get some ET and lysergic acid (will never happen), as well as all the pricey lab equipment, you would most likely end up spending a very long time on the inside of a federal bang-me-in-the-ass prison. The US gov't tends to not like mass-manufacturers of schedule I substances, ESPECIALLY LSD.

[EllisDTripp]

which part of the production process requires physical skills learnt in chemistry?

Just about everything! :)

These "physical skills" are commonly called "lab technique", and are acquired through years of study and practice. LSD synthesis isn't simply a matter of dumping a bunch of different chemicals into a pot and pouring the mixture onto blotter sheets.

The "physical skills" would be stuff like proper glassware setup, how and when to use a fume hood, avoiding the hazards of explosion, fire or poisoning which will be everywhere, and how to properly purify your product without flushing all of it down the drain.

These aren't things that can be easily explained in an internet posting, but they are CRITICAL to success. LSD synthesis involves very critical technique and painstaking attention to details which might not be readily apparent on casual observation. It would be like trying to describe how to drive a car to a complete novice, but the first time they actually sat behind a steering wheel they got dropped into the Indy 500!

[Primus]

Just about everything! :)

These "physical skills" are commonly called "lab technique", and are acquired through years of study and practice. LSD synthesis isn't simply a matter of dumping a bunch of different chemicals into a pot and pouring the mixture onto blotter sheets.

The "physical skills" would be stuff like proper glassware setup, how and when to use a fume hood, avoiding the hazards of explosion, fire or poisoning which will be everywhere, and how to properly purify your product without flushing all of it down the drain.

These aren't things that can be easily explained in an internet posting, but they are CRITICAL to success. LSD synthesis involves very critical technique and painstaking attention to details which might not be readily apparent on casual observation. It would be like trying to describe how to drive a car to a complete novice, but the first time they actually sat behind a steering wheel they got dropped into the Indy 500!That's a good way to put it. If you don't understand the basics of chemistry, you can't appreciate the skill required and the difficulty of it all.

[EllisDTripp]

To a solution of 3-methoxycarbonylindole (7.0g, 40.0mmol) in TFA was added Thallium(III) trifluoroacetate (32.6g, 60.0 mmol) in TFA (140 ml), and the mixture was stirred for 2 hours at r.t.

Oh yeah, thallium salts! There's some fun-loving, user-friendly stuff there...:)

https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/12963.htm

Makes LiAlH4 look like baby shampoo...

[headymoechick]

my ex got into this when he was young. he thought he could study chemistry and make a million dollars when he figured out how to make LSD.

He then saw the complexity and forgot about it. When you get older and really see what it takes, I mean every miniscule detail with getting the supplies and lab equipment, you'll understand why it takes so much to manufacture.

I agree with someone who said Ex killed the LSD business. I still love taking it, but it's true. It's easier (in a way) to make and you can sell it for a lot more. People still expect L to be sold at 5 bucks a hit and it just doesn't work that way anymore.

[gotLBforsale]

I don't know if I'd say lsd is hard to make, I just whipped a few vials from the posted recipe and all I had to do was

1.set up fake bussiness front .
2.order all the correct glassware and have it shipped to my fake bussiness.
3.obtain the proper dea license for the watched chems
4. order the watched chems without raising a red flag with the glassware
5.learn to cook crank!



five simple steps! sounds easy enough. But seriously, bro, don't let us stop you from experimenting, have fun buddy!

[tiki_god7]

I think you all are rudely missing the question thats being asked here...why does everyone get so pissy.
I think the answer to the original question is yes. If you were provided everything needed to make LSD inlcuding an instruction manual, you can. It may take a while to learn what everything is and how to use it but with plenty of studying up on it all you could nail it.
A degree is only an expensive piece of paper proving you know it.

[EllisDTripp]

I think you all are rudely missing the question thats being asked here...why does everyone get so pissy.
I think the answer to the original question is yes. If you were provided everything needed to make LSD inlcuding an instruction manual, you can. It may take a while to learn what everything is and how to use it but with plenty of studying up on it all you could nail it.

Well, if you are able to learn enough chemistry to UNDERSTAND the written instructions, and were given the equipment and materials, then you should certainly be able to do it. But by the time you get to that point, you are getting pretty close to being a CHEMIST. No, having a college degree in chemistry isn't a requirement, but a good working knowledge of chemistry and lab techniques IS. And for the vast majority of folks, the best way to acquire such skills would be a course of formal study.


A degree is only an expensive piece of paper proving you know it.

It doesn't even prove that. It only proves that you paid your tuition, showed up in class, and were able to pass tests. :) I've met a few degreed chemists who were completely inept when you actually stick them at a lab bench and tell them to carry out a synthesis. Like every other field, modern chemistry education is emphasizing computer models and simulations over "hands-on" skills these days.

[TAPPER]

Bill, try reading through an LSD synthesis. I guarantee you won’t get past the first paragraph without having to utilize some form of reference material. As others pointed out, by the time you possess the fundamental skills (more than stirring is involved) and the intimate knowledge of the processes, to some extent you have become a “chemist” (for this case a better term would be cook) . In the realm of psychedelic synthesis, LSD is on the top of the difficulty list.

There are three ways you can get to this point, a formal education, have an experienced LSD chemist/cook teach you, or teach yourself. Judging by your question I am fairly confident you do not possess the superior intellect to teach yourself this level of chemistry without the assistance of others. In addition, there are only a handful of experienced LSD manufacturers in the world and I highly doubt they are going to take you on as an apprentice. So, this leaves the route 99.9% of us would need to take….formal education.

IMO, to be able to grasp all the concepts involved one would need at LEAST a 4 year degree, or equivalent, in organic chem. Even at this level its doubtful someone could pull off the synthesis (with all the equipment and precursors) without numerous time consuming and extremely costly attempts.

[Jack_Straw2208]

for a senior member this is an absurd post.

what physical processes can be done by a highly qualified chemist and no one else? how about acquiring the lab equipment without raising the dea's eyebrows, or getting the highly illegal and closely watched schedule 1 chemicals needed to even get started making lsd.

in the early 60's owsley paid 20k cash for 100 grams of lysergic acid from a chem supplier. would you throw down that kind of money just for one of the chemicals you need?

as to your next question, there ARE synthesis ALL over the net. good luck.
cant you get lysergic acid from morning glories? 100 grams might take a while, but you'd only need to piss away 20 bucks on a couple of packets..

[EllisDTripp]

Well, you can get a crude mixture of lysergic acid amides from MG seeds, but in order to make LSD from them, you would STILL need all the glassware, several suspicious and hazardous chemicals, and serious knowledge of chemistry.

In fact, starting from plant sources (MG seeds, HBWR seeds, ergot fungus) is a lot more difficult than starting with ergotamine tartrate diverted from pharmaceutical use.

[orqan]

I've read once that one of the famous clandestine chemists in 60's says

"I'm not a chemist, I'm just a cook"

And yep he didn't go to college even so not chemistry.His speciality was LSD. He was just a surfer in California. Can't remember the name because my source on the web is down now

the-hive.ws

[KissYourKiller]

you dont have to be a hotshit chemist. But i think i should make you aware of the fact that during the very intricate, complicated, detailed, grueling process, there is a certain step in teh procedure where if you heat something a few degrees more than your supposed to you make a toxic poison instead of LSD. Good luck!

[_ian_]

a few of the main reasons everyone says you need to be a chemist are in my opinion, the fact that you need a good lab with special lighting vaccume ventelation thats kept at a stable temp and a shitload of glassware. you need to know a lot about the chemicals your working with, they can become valitle when mixed with the wrong ones or at the wrong temp or mixing using the wrong prosidure or in the wrong lighting or ventelation. oh and an important one is always that you dont kill yourself or anyone else. but dont get me wrong it could be easly done if you have the funds and people and equipment and a lab somewhere like underground and someone with a shitload of chem knowledge oh and a lot of licences and diffrent places to ship the chemicals.

[LostChord]

I've read once that one of the famous clandestine chemists in 60's says

"I'm not a chemist, I'm just a cook"

And yep he didn't go to college even so not chemistry.His speciality was LSD. He was just a surfer in California. Can't remember the name because my source on the web is down now

the-hive.wsduring that period, it was a lot of trial and error work...

i've read stories of peoples 1st couple of attempts coming out all fucked up.. like the crystals being black and shit... like where they might leave something for 5 seconds longer then they were supposed to and toxins rapidly formed. Or where they used the wrong color lighting at a certain time, things being spilled and proportions getting messed up and just winging it... i'm no expert but i'm taking a guess that black lsd crystals arent exactly anywhere near pure...

people also through practicing a hell of a lot found shortcuts and other methods of producing lsd or at least something close to lsd.. I mean its not imposible to do.. I just think the chances of getting away with it and being successfull are a heck of a lot lower then during the 60s & 70s.. and there were not and still are not (probably even less) people that make it.. like if it was something people could do easily.. wouldnt every hippie and raver be making it.. its like destiny for those who have & do make it...

[khatman]

yeah well you have to remember that in the sixties maybe not 68 69 but 67 and prior precursors were hella easier to acquire for lsd.

[khatman]

augustus stanley owsley III was not a college-educated chemist...
owsley had the benefit of purchasing precursors that made the process much easier

[Jabbawaya]

To make LSD you must be an experienced organic chemist with a fully equipped lab.

There are really no substitutes. There are no shortcuts for making LSD.

peace

[LostChord]

someone once PM'd me asking if i had the directions to get lsd from fosters beer....

i was like you gotta be kidding me right? thats one of the oldest myths around.. and also one of the stupidest...

[DrSpaceman]

Richard Pryor found out about the flash point of ether the hard way. It's used in a lot of extractions from water, and its invisible fumes are heavier than air and, if not contained, flow along the floor toward light switches, ashtrays, etc. Under long storage, it slowly reacts with oxygen to form explosive peroxides, which are on a sensitivity scale similar to nitroglycerine.

For a total synthesis, you have to obtain compounds such as indole, which are on a big-brother watch list. You also need to do purifications after nearly every step and verify, usually through spectrometry, that you have what you think you have. Some of the compounds may be heat- or light-sensitive, including LSD itself. Finally, you have to deal with submilligram quantities with a reasonable degree of accuracy, although using a solution does simplify that somewhat.

Almost 30 years ago, I tried to make DMT (a much simpler synthesis), at least twice before I smelled dead fish and knew I had succeeded. The cookbook method called for LiAlH4 as the reducing agent, and what I was using was so old that it was mainly LiAlO2. Then I found BH3.THF and got past that step.

[DrSpaceman]

Amides can be hydrolyzed to acids, but the amide bond is one of the more stable parts of this molecule. Depending on the conditions, isomerization, ring-opening, or polymerization might conceivably occur. (Unwanted polymerization usually leads to the infamous "tar" that is a by-product of many organic reactions.) Before you could even do that, you'd have to extract and purify the lysergamide. At that point, assuming you get that far and can verify it without instrumentation and combustion analysis, you already have a hallucinogen. It's not LSD, but it is LSA without the "roughage."

Unless you can use water and food-quality alcohol as the only solvents, you run the risk of adding impurities that are less desirable than the seeds themselves, like trace heavy metals, organic denaturants, and reagent-grade manufacturing by-products. That said, I wont deny having huffed toluene, benzene, and chloroform in my time.

[DrSpaceman]

Right there in the first line you could be in big trouble! TFA is trifluoroacetic acid, which is both a strong acid and highly toxic. Thallium compounds are used in ant traps because of their toxicity, and I'm told the first sign of poisoning is loss of hair. Even if you're into heavy metal, that's one you don't want in your product!

On top of all that, organothallation is easier said than done. Some chemists claim that Tl2O3 should be used to make the TTFA in situ for best results, so reproducibility is another questionable factor. At this end of the paragraph, all you have is 4-iodoindole-3-carboxylic acid, I would think. Let me guess ... the next step displaces the iodine with a cyanide?

[DrSpaceman]

Even many peer-reviewed published syntheses consisting of fewer steps can be tried by other chemists (or even the same chemist at a later date) and fail to yield the product, sometimes just from a variation in conditions that might not be noticed. Vacuum distillation that succeeds at one pressure might lead to a boiling point at a somewhat higher pressure that's high enough to lead to decomposition. If it can happen to an experienced chemist, how much more likely is it to happen to an amateur?

Simply synthesizing something to be ingested isn't enough. A purity of 99.98% is pretty routine for specialty chemicals from a supplier, but drug companies can't just take the same "recipe" that was published by a research team and send the product out the door as soon as they finish the last step. They might even have to redesign a lot of the steps to use less toxic reagents, in addition to ultrapurifying the final product, which is made more difficult by each intermediate step where purification was less thorough.

[Dazed4now]

here dude knock yourself out

Abstract
(±)-Lysergic acid (1) has been synthesized via an economical 8-step route from 4-bromoindole and isocinchomeronic acid without the need to protect the indole during the synthesis. Initial efforts to form the simpler 3-acylindole derivatives first and then cyclize these were unsuccessful in the cyclization step.

The ergot alkaloids pose an unusual opportunity for synthesis. The central alkaloids are all amides of lysergic acid (1) and all possess a broad range of pharmacological activity1-3. Only one of these, the diethylamide (LSD), however, is strongly and notoriously psychoactive. As such it is listed as a class I controlled substance. Since both the natural and synthetic derivatives are easily convertible to lysergic acid and so to its diethylamide, all of these are also controlled substances. As a result this potential pharmacological treasure is essentially unavailable for practical clinical testing.

Figure 1

Bondset of lysergic acid synthesis.

We considered that a derivative of lysergic acid bearing an unremoveable substituent, like an added C-alkyl group, could not be converted to lysergic acid itself or its amide. Such derivatives would probably retain the broad pharmacological activity of the ergot family but might easily avoid the unique hallucinogenic property of LSD. This idea encouraged us to seek a short, practical synthesis route to lysergic acid suitable for incorporation of C-alkyl starting materials to create these derivatives.

Lysergic acid has already been synthesized about eight times4. The shortest path has 11 steps and none are serious candidates for practical manufacture. Every synthesis to date contains redundant protection/deprotection sequences, often as indole starting materials reduced and acylated, only at the end reconstituted to the indole form. To eliminate this redundancy we decided that the indole should be carried through intact.

Scheme 1

Attempt via Bondset ba Approachaa
Reagents: (i) EMgBr/ZnCl2/Et2O.


The simplest convergent bondset for assembling the lysergic skeleton should be the boldface bonds in ring C, which just arise from indole and nicotinic acid starting materials. No previous syntheses had utilized this approach except the Julia route, which did not carry the indole moiety through unchanged.

Of the two initial constructions necessary for the bondset in Figure 1 we began with the simplest (bond b) via an acylation of indole or 4-haloindoles5 2 with the acid chloride 3 from the commercially available 6-carboxynicotinic acid (isocinchomeronic acid), as outlined in Scheme 1. The acid was esterified, selectively hydrolyzed only at the 6-position6 with aqueous Cu(NO3)2, and converted (SOCl2) to 3. The Grignard reagents from 2 were acylated with 3 to form 4. However, a number of attempts at palladium-catalyzed cyclizations of 4 (X = Br or I) or reduced pyridine derivatives of 4 and their N-methyl salts were all unsuccessful.

We also considered that a thermal pericyclic cyclization of the anion 5 of 4 might be accessible with subsequent loss of HX to form 6, but several trials of this at elevated temperatures, with or without added base, led only to intractable tars.

The alternative path to close ring C, making bond a first, was ultimately successful, as summarized in Scheme 2. For this approach we needed a nicotinic acid derivative with a halogen marking the 5-position.

Scheme 2

Synthesis of Lysergic Acid via Bondset ab Approachaa
Reagents: (i) Pd(PPh3)4/Na2CO3(aq)/EtOH; (ii) NaBH4,
CaCl2, EtOH; (iii) MnO2, CHCl3; (iv) NaOH, MeOH;
(v) NaBH4, TFA, CH2Cl2; (vi) MeI, CH2Cl2; (vii) NaBH4,
MeOH; (viii) NaOH, EtOH.
The common introduction of halogen on pyridines, via SOCl2 on the N-oxide7, provides only the ortho/para halides. However, sulfonyl halides can give rise to meta substitution8 and the reaction of the N-oxide of 6-carboxynicotinic acid with thionyl chloride affords9 the m-chloro derivative 7 on workup with methanol. We believe this results from first forming the normal, nonplanar p-chloro intermediate in Figure 2, which can then collapse via the pericyclic rearrangement shown and subsequent loss of the p-chloride to afford 7.


When the 4-haloindoles 2 were converted to the boronic acid 8 (via KH + BuLi and B(n-BuO)3), the Suzuki coupling was successful in forming 9a in 91% yield. While this work was in progress, a closely related reaction appeared in a note by Doll10 coupling 8 with 5-bromonicotinic ester, but the subsequent addition of the missing carbon 4 for lysergic acid failed.

We presumed that an appropriate base would easily initiate the cyclization of the diester 9a to the tetracyclic ketone corresponding to 10. However, treatment of the diester with NaH, even in glycol at 197°C, yielded only starting material. A number of attempts to cyclize the corresponding, very insoluble diacid with thionyl chloride or variants of PPA led only to recovery of diacid or intractable mixtures with no evidence of cyclization.

Following a similar but intermolecular version from Potier11 we reduced the ester selectively12 with NaBH4 and CaCl2 to 9b and then oxidized it to the aldehyde 9c with MnO2. The aldehyde cyclized at room temperature easily and quantitatively with only 2 mol% of NaOH to yield 10. Various efforts to cyclize the alcohol 9b or its tosylate to 11 all recovered only starting materials. The difference in the ease of cyclization of 9c over its precursors surprised us but we became convinced from models that there was severe steric resistance to the stereoelectronic demands for cyclization except for the aldehyde case.

Typical reduction13 of the indole-alcohol 10 with NaBH4/TFA afforded 11, which proved to be unstable, decomposing in a matter of hours. Accordingly, the remaining steps were carried through without isolation. Freshly prepared 11 was methylated directly with methyl iodide and the crude salt 12 reduced with excess NaBH4 in methanol to a mixture of methyl lysergate and its cis-isomer isolysergate in a 6:1 ratio, as a pale yellow solid.

These diastereomers are reported to be somewhat unstable14 and so were immediately hydrolyzed to lysergic acid with NaOH, which also equilibrated them to the more stable lysergic acid, which was then finally recrystallized to mp 241-242°C (lit. 242-243°C).

The 1H NMR spectra of the mixed esters were identical with spectra kindly provided by Prof. Ichiya Ninomiya, and the NMR spectra (1H and 13C) of the lysergic acid agreed with that of a natural sample kindly provided by Dr. David Nichols.

The last three operations (10 to 1) are carried out easily in good yield without isolation and purification; this result lends value to the initial conception in Figure 1 that the most economical synthesis of lysergic acid is one that originates in the two main starting materials, a simple indole and a nicotinic acid derivative, both retaining their aromaticity to the very end. This synthesis comprises eight steps from isocinchomeronic acid and 4-bromoindole and proceeds in an unoptimized overall yield of 10.6%. Chirality is only introduced in the final reduction step, and enantioselective measures for this reduction have not yet been examined, nor has the parallel synthesis of C-alkyl derivatives.

Experimental
1H and 13C NMR spectra were recorded on a Varian Unity Inova 400 MHz instrument at ambient temperature using TMS as internal standard and CDCl3 as solvent. Mass spectrometry was recorded on the Micromass QUATTRO II instrument. The solvents and reagents were purified by the following methods: diethyl ether, glyme and THF were distilled from sodium with benzophenone as an indicator. DMF, CH2Cl2 and xylene were distilled from calcium hydride. Benzene and toluene were distilled from P2O5. Methanol and ethanol were dried over magnesium. Triglyme was distilled from LiAlH4. Trimethylamine was distilled from NaOH. Anhydrous CaCl2 has been roasted in a crucible and allowed to cool in a desiccator.

1. 4-Bromo-indole (2a)
To a solution of 3-methoxycarbonylindole (7.0g, 40.0mmol) in TFA was added Thallium(III) trifluoroacetate (32.6g, 60.0 mmol) in TFA (140 ml), and the mixture was stirred for 2 hours at r.t. After TFA was evaporated in vacuo, a dark brown oil was obtained. This oil was dissolved in DMF (100 ml) and CuBr2 (35.8g, 160.0 mmol) was added. The reaction was stirred at 120°C for 1 hour then was cooled and CH2Cl2:MeOH (95:5, v/v) (300 ml) was added. Insoluble precipitates were filtered off through a plug of celite. The filtrate was washed with brine (100 ml x 2), and the organic layer was dried over Na2SO4. A crystalline material (7.60g) was obtained in 63% yield after the removal of solvent under reduced pressure. This material was directly subjected to decarboxylation for the preparation of 4-bromo-indole in the next step. To a solution of 4-bromo-indole-3-carboxylic acid methyl ester (5.06g, 20.0 mmol) in 200 ml methanol was added 200 ml of 40% aq. NaOH. The reaction was refluxed for 1.5 h with stirring. After evaporation of the solvent, the residue was poured into 200 ml water, and extracted with CH2Cl2:MeOH (95:5, v/v; 200 ml x 3). The extract was washed with brine, dried over Na2SO4, and evaporated in vacuo to leave a brown oil. Purification by chromatography using hexane:ethyl acetate (6:1) afforded a light colored oil (2.68 g) in 69.1% yield.

2. 4-Iodo-indole (2b)
To a solution of 3-methoxycarbonylindole (7.0g, 40.0mmol) in TFA was added Thallium(III) trifluoroacetate (32.6g, 60.0 mmol) in TFA (140 ml), and the mixture was stirred for 2 hours at r.t. After TFA was evaporated in vacuo, a dark brown oil was obtained. This oil was suspended in 450 ml H2O, and KI (19.9 g, 120.0 mmol) was added to this suspension. The reaction was stirred at r. t. for 2 hours. CH2Cl2:MeOH (95:5, v/v) (300 ml) was added to the reaction mixture and insoluble precipitates were filtered off through a plug of celite. The organic layer was separated and washed with aq. sodium thiosulfate then brine. Removal of the solvent left a brownish solid. Quick purification by a short plug of silica gel afforded a white solid (8.68g) as 4-iodo-indole-3-carboxylic acid methyl ester in 72.1% yield. This material was used directly in the next step. To a solution of 4-iodo-indole-3-carboxylic acid methyl ester (6.02g, 20.0 mmol) in 200 ml methanol was added 200 ml of 40% aq. NaOH. The reaction was refluxed for 1.5 h with stirring. After evaporation of the solvent, the residue was poured into 200 ml water, and extracted with CH2Cl2:MeOH (95:5, v/v; 200 ml x 3). The extract was washed with brine, dried over Na2SO4, and evaporated in vacuo to leave an off-white solid. Purification by chromatography using hexane : ethyl acetate (6:1) afforded a white crystalline solid (3.51g) in 72.3% yield.

3. Pyridine-2,5-dicarboxylic acid 5-methyl ester (3)
To a solution of pyridine-2,5-dicarboxylic acid dimethyl ester (5.91g, 30 mmol) in 100 ml methanol was added copper(II)nitrate trihydrate (14.5g, 60 mmol) in a 500 ml round bottom flask equipped with a reflux condenser and a stirring bar. The reaction was refluxed for 80 mins. A deep violet-blue precipitation was observed after 20 mins and lasted throughout the course of the reaction. The reaction was cooled to r.t., and the reaction mixture was reduced to 1/3 of its original volume. The deep violet-blue solid was collected by filtration and washed with cold methanol then cold water. This solid material was dissolved in 50 ml glyme, and H2S gas was bubbled into the solution. The black precipitate was formed in 2 mins, and the deep violet-blue solid disappeared after 15 mins. The black precipitate was filtered out through a plug of celite and the filtrate was concentrated to 20 ml. Excess hexanes were added into this solution, and a white solid was formed. The white solid was collected by filtration. Recrystallization of this solid from acetone afforded 4.83g product in 88.9% yield (mp 194.1-195.1°C, Lit6).

4. 6-(4-Iodo-indole-3-carbonyl)-nicotinic acid methyl ester (4b)
To a solution of EtMgBr (10 ml, 1.575 M in ether, 15.75 mmol) was added a solution of 4-iodo-1H-indole (3.65g, 15.0 mmol) in ether (anhydrous, 20 ml). The resulting twophase system was allowed to stand for 15 min under stirring whereupon ZnCl2 (15 ml, 1.0m in ether, 15.0 mmol) was added with stirring. The two-phase system was allowed to stand for 30 min when 6-chlorocarbonyl-nicotinic acid methyl ester (3.14g, 15.75 mmol) in anhydrous ether (10 ml) was added rapidly under vigorous stirring. The reaction mixture was allowed to stand for 2 hours whereupon NH4Cl (aq. sat. 25 ml) was added. The organic layer was separated, and the aqueous layer was extracted with CH2Cl2 (3x50 ml). The combined organic layer was washed with NaHCO3 (aq. sat. 25 ml) followed by brine (25 ml), and dried over Na2SO4. Removal of the solvent in vacuo afforded a yellowish solid. Recrystallization of this solid from acetone afforded 4.25g of the desired crystalline product (mp. 245.7-246.8°C) in 69.8% yield.

5. 3-Chloro-pyridine-2,5-dicarboxylic acid dimethyl ester (7)
Pyridine-2,5-dicarboxylic acid (8.35g, 50.0 mmol) was suspended in 250ml 0.2% (w/w) aq. Na2WO4 (0.5g) in a 1 liter round bottom flask. To this solution was added H2O2 in water (30% w/w, 8.5g, 75.0 mmol). The resulting mixture was stirred and heated at 80- 85°C for 10 hours. The resulting solid was collected by filtration and washed with cold water. Drying the material under vacuum overnight yielded 9.06 g product solid (mp. 253.2-254.1°C, dec; Lit.9 254°C, dec.) as pyridine-2,5-dicarboxylic acid N-oxide in 99% yield. This solid was used in the next step.

To a solution of thionyl chloride (9.52g, 5.84 ml, 80 mmol) in 200 ml CH2Cl2 was added DMF (2 ml) at 0°C. Pyridine-2,5-dicarboxylic acid N-oxide (3.66g, 20.0 mmol) was added into this mixture portionwise. The resulting mixture was heated at 65°C for 2 hours. The reaction was cooled to r.t. then placed in an ice-bath. The reaction was quenched with methanol (30 ml) slowly at 0°C. The solvent was removed in vacuo and the crude product was partitioned between CH2Cl2 (100 ml) and aq. NaHCO3 (sat. 50 ml). The organic layer was separated and the aqueous layer was extracted with additional CH2Cl2 (100 ml x 2). The combined organic layer was dried over Na2SO4 and the solvent was removed in vacuo. Purification of the crude oil through a short plug of silica gel using hexane : ethyl acetate (2:1) afforded a white solid (3.73g, mp. 126.0-127.0°C) in 81.2% yield.

6. Indole-4-boronic acid (8)
To a suspension of KH (4.57 g of a 30% suspension in mineral oil, 32.9 mmol) was added a solution of 4-bromo-indole (5.88g, 30.0 mmol) in anhydrous ether (25 ml). The reaction was stirred at r.t. for 30 min under N2 and the reaction was cooled in an acetone-dry ice bath (-78°C) with stirring. Precooled t-BuLi solution in hexane (33.0 ml, 66.0 mmol) was cannulated into the reaction and the reaction was kept stirring for another 20 min. Neat B(n-BuO)3 (24.1 ml, 90.0 mmol) was added into the reaction by syringe under vigorous stirring. The reaction mixture became thick when it was allowed to warm to r.t., and more anhydrous ether (30 ml) was added under N2. The reaction was allowed to stand overnight at r.t. with vigorous stirring. The thick reaction mixture was diluted with more anhydrous ether and then transferred slowly into 1 M aqueous H3PO4 (300 ml) at 0°C. The mixture was stirred at r.t. for 40 min, and extracted with ether (100 ml x 30). The combined organic layer was extracted with 1 N NaOH (50 ml x 3). Ether (100 ml) was added to this aqueous solution and the mixture was acidified to pH = 2 using 1M H3PO4. The organic layer was separated and the aqueous layer was extracted with ether (100 ml x 2). The combined ether layer was dried over Na2SO4 and evaporation of solvent in vacuo left a beige solid (4.24g, 88.0%).

[Dazed4now]

7. 3-(4-indolyl)-pyridine-2,5-dicarboxylic acid diethyl ester (9a)
Into 500 ml anhydrous toluene in a 1 liter round bottom flask equipped with stirring bar was bubbled in a stream of argon via a needle for 30 min. Pd(PPh3)4 (0.878g, 0.75 mmol) and 3-chloro-pyridine-2,5-dicarboxylic acid dimethyl ester (3.44g, 15.0 mmol) were added into this solvent and the resulting mixture was stirred at r.t. under argon for 1 hour. A solution of indole-4-boronic acid (1.86g, 11.5 mmol) in 50 ml EtOH and a solution of 2M aqueous Na2CO3 (11.5 ml) was added into the reaction mixture at r.t. under argon. The mixture was heated under argon with vigorous stirring at 105°C for 8 hours. The reaction mixture was cooled and brine (200 ml) was added. The organic layer was separated and aqueous layer extracted with additional CH2Cl2 (2x100 ml). The combined organic layer was dried over Na2SO4 and evaporation of the solvent left a yellowish solid. Purification of the crude material through a short plug of silica gel (hexane:ethyl acetate, 1:2) afforded a yellow solid. The TLC of this material showed it to be a mixture of three different compounds due to ester exchange. This solid was dissolved in 500 ml EtOH and the solution was stirred overnight at r.t. in the presence of catalytic HCl in diethyl ether. A single compound (3.54g) was obtained (mp. 212.3-213.0°C) in 91.0% yield.

8. 6-Hydroxymethyl-5-(4-indolyl)-nicotinic acid ethyl ester (9b)
To a solution of 3-(4-indolyl)-pyridine-2,5-dicarboxylic acid diethyl ester (0.34g, 1.0 mmol) in anhydrous EtOH (10 ml) was added Ba(BH4)2 (24.6mg, 0.65 mmol) followed by CaCl2 (44.3mg, 0.4 mmol) at 0°C. The reaction was warmed to r.t. and stirred for 2 hours. 1 M H2SO4 (1 ml) was added to the reaction, and the resulting white precipitation (CaSO4) was filtered out through a plug of celite. The filtrate was concentrated and partitioned between ethyl acetate (20 ml) and NaHCO3 (aq. 15 ml). The organic layer was separated and the aqueous layer was extracted with additional ethyl acetate (2x20 ml). The combined organic layer was dried over Na2SO4, and the solvent was removed. The crude material was purified by silica gel chromatography using hexane-ethyl acetate (3:1 to 1:1). A colorless solid (mp. 198.1-199.0°C) was obtained (231 mg) in 78% yield.

Alternatively, the product could also be made using Ca(BH4)2 as the reducing reagent in the same solvent and temperature for same period of time. The NMR, mass spectrum, elemental analysis and mp. of this product were identical to that of the product obtained by the previous method. The yield of this reaction was 85%.

9. 6-formyl-5-(4-indolyl)-nicotinic acid ethyl ester (9c)
To a solution of 6-hydroxymethyl-5-(4-indolyl)-nicotinic acid ethyl ester (296 mg, 1.0 mmol) in 5 ml CH2Cl2 was added freshly made MnO2 (870 mg, 10.0 mmol). The reaction was stirred at r.t. for 2 hours then filtered from the solution through a plug of celite, and the solvent was removed in vacuo. Purification of the crude material by silica gel chromatography using hexane-ethyl acetate (2:1) afforded a yellow solid (271mg, 92%) with mp. 198.4-199.2°C.

10. 6-Hydroxy-4,6-dihydro-indolo[4,3-fg]quinoline-9-carboxylic acid methyl ester (10)
To a solution of 6-formyl-5-(4-indolyl)-nicotinic acid ethyl ester (117.8 mg, 0.4 mmol) in anhydrous methanol (1.0 ml) in a 2 ml conical vial was added 0.5 M NaOMe/MeOH ( 16.0 µl, 0.008 mmol). The reaction was stirred at r.t. for 2 hours. Solid precipitated out of the solution during the course of the reaction, and the starting material disappeared completely after 2 hours as indicated by TLC. The solution was cooled to 0°C and the liquid was removed with a pipette. The remaining solid was recrystallized from MeOH to afford 102.0 mg yellow crystalline solid (mp. 234.6-235.8°C) in 91% yield.

11. 4,6-Dihydro-indolo[4,3-fg]quinoline-9-carboxylic acid methyl ester (11)
To a solution of 6-hydroxy-4,6-dihydro-indolo[4,3-fg]quinoline-9-carboxylic methyl ester (90 mg, 0.32mmol) in 10 ml anhydrous THF was added BH3 in THF (1.0 M, 0.64 ml, 0.64mol) under argon. The resulting mixture was stirred at r.t. for 2 hours. The TLC showed the disappearance of the starting material and a new fluorescent spot under UV on TLC. The solvent was removed in vacuo and the crude material was partitioned between CH2Cl2 (3 ml) and aq. NaHCO3 (sat., 2 ml). The organic layer was separated and the aqueous was extracted with additional CH2Cl2 (2x3 ml). The combined organic layers were dried over Na2SO4 and concentrated. The crude material was purified by silica gel PTLC using CH2Cl2:MeOH (98:2). A white solid was obtained (mp. 212.9-213.9°C, 35.2 mg) in 41% yield.

12. (±)-Lysergic acid (1)
To a solution of 4,6-dihydro-indolo[4,3-fg]quinoline-9-carboxylic acid methyl ester (29.2 mg, 0.116 mmol) in CH2Cl2 (1ml) was added MeI (33.0 mg, 14.6 µl, 0.24 mmol) at 0°C. The reaction was stirred at 0°C for 2 hours and the starting material disappeared after 2 hours as indicated by TLC. The solvent was removed in vacuo and the crude product was dissolved in methanol (1 ml). To that mixture was added NaBH4 (15.2 mg, 0.4 mmol) and the reaction was stirred at r.t. for 5 min. The organic solvent was removed in vacuo and the remaining solution was partitioned between CH2Cl2 (2 ml) and water (2 ml). The organic layer was separated and the aqueous layer was extracted with additional CH2Cl2 (3 ml x 2). The organic layers were combined and dried over Na2SO4. The solvent was removed and the crude material was purified by PTLC (CH2Cl2:MeOH, 98:2). A white solid was obtained (21.4 mg, 65%). 1H NMR showed it to be a mixture of methyl lysergate and methyl isolysergate in 6:1 ratio using N-methyl as the integration indicator.

To a solution of methyl lysergate & methyl isolysergate (6:1 mixture above, 15.6 mg, 0.028 mmol) in ethanol (0.5 ml) was added 1 N NaOH (0.5 ml). The reaction was heated at 35°C for two hours. 0.1 N HCl solution was used to carefully adjust the pH to 6 and the solid material was collected by removing the liquid. The solid was recrystallized from ethanol to afford 12.2 mg, (95%) of lysergic acid.

[piperazine]

One thing that most people seem to be missing is that even though the synthesis dosen't sound that tough, even if you can get the glassware and chemicals, even if you are familiar with the techniques, this is a VERY difficult compound to synthesize.

The chemical is very complex. The reaction is VERY sensitive. You could get everything you need and perform the synthesys exactly as written and get a useless brown goo every time unless you are familiar with the science, the mechanisms behind every step of the process. Of course you could also get lucky.

Even Owsley tried numerous times before he got anything that resembled a phychoactive substance.

There is a reason there are so few acid labs.

The last one busted had a capacity of hundreds of millions of hits. There can't be too many of those around, now can there?

[Quest_techie]

Read my above post. Those are some instructions, and if you don't understand those, you can't make LSD. Also you don't "just have to make LSD", its very complicated.

Like you said, there are some cooking recipes that you can easily understand, but there are also many you would never understand or be able to do. Just like that, LSD isn't mixed baking soda and vineger.

"you dont have to have the thinkning skills of a playing musician" - actually I think that's a very good point, except you do need those skills.


some of those chemicals are the same as some explosives.......


in the instructions rather

that is interesting and remarkably ironic.......

[StonerBill]

i never said i wanted to do it myself but there are a lot of patient people out there who could learn the whole process without knowing any chemistry, surely. i mean how many physical actions can there be involved in making acid? surely nothing more than a booklette, if that even

[2cesarewild]

i never said i wanted to do it myself but there are a lot of patient people out there who could learn the whole process without knowing any chemistry, surely. i mean how many physical actions can there be involved in making acid? surely nothing more than a booklette, if that even
You're right.. but what happens when something goes wrong? Any average joe isn't going to know wtf to do. A chemist will because he understands everything he is doing.

[Jack_Straw2208]

i never said i wanted to do it myself but there are a lot of patient people out there who could learn the whole process without knowing any chemistry, surely. i mean how many physical actions can there be involved in making acid? surely nothing more than a booklette, if that even
have you ever seen a kangaroo?

[whiterasta]

LOL the chromatography alone is an artform for this molecule.Given it's popularity and profitability the only excuse for a shortage is a prohibitive synthesis. LSD is a very complex synthesis of an unstable drug.It's days of commonality are gone and it has become a "boutique" drug
WR

[2cesarewild]

Yea, that's why I said what if something goes wrong. If you don't understand what's going on a lot of problems can arise. Sure, anyone can follow directions, but things DO go wrong.

Besides, finding a chemist capable of LSD synthesis that is willing to teach a non chemist the synthesis process is probably impossible. I imagine these chemists would be more responsible than that.

[The Flow]

About 10 years ago, when I was still in university, I heard this story of a chemistry professor, who wanted to synthesize LSD on a weekend. He made the whole thing unnecessarily complicated and some of the synthesis steps took hours, although they could´ve been done in minutes (that´s why the whole thing was spread around - some of his students found out and were quite amused, how much work he had made himself, of course everyone of them could have done better - or already had...).

But in the end it all worked out fine and he ended up with approx. 12grams (!!!) of acid (that´s almost 100,000 hits!). I never found out, what happened to all that stuff... :confused:

[2cesarewild]

Yea, I wish it was ten years ago, shit, I talked to this guy who was in high school a little more like 15 years ago; he got pages fronted at a dollar a hit, and of course sold them for five a hit to all his buddies in high school. I can only imagine and salivate when I think about the prices 20 years ago lol.

[angerton]

An interesting point.

I've not read the whole 5+ pages yet, but the original point that if a precise guide was given, could someone follow it through, assuming that without an unpredicted event happening, it would work out?

Well, building a treehouse, there are certain basic things you need to be able to understand and perform. Transfer these to advanced organic chemistry terms and lab experience... and we can maybe work from the idea. Again, this would assume you have the ideal chemicals for the simplest reaction laid out in front of you, as someone could have 50 years ago.

Leary was not a chemistry major, but he taught himself much on the subject. What made me feel the need to respond is the things I've read about Owsley. By the end of his career he knew tons on the subject. Especially after the ALD-52 and all. But at the start, he was working with little knowledge. (If I recall, he had help from his wife?).

However, this was in the early days. Getting the exact chemicals for a predetermined recipe just won't happen these days. The acid chemist must be able to adapt, understanding every aspect of the reactions (like any real chemist will/should). One works with what they have, and they make what they can't get. Anyone commited to it for the long run, lucky enough to aquire the materials is in the runnings. But, without a pure interest in chemistry *beyond* the aspects of LSD, or even other drug production, one sure would be taking a gamble with his or her future going down that road (Sounds kind of silly, in comparison to the riskiest gamble of all, granted the chance to actual perform the reactions).

As commited as some of us are to the cause, and perhaps many of us would risk our freedom for it, how many are commited enough to sacrifice such a chunk of our life for the *slightest* chance that one day the materials will cross our path, without an otherwise existing interest in chemistry. Especially since it will only get harder as time progresses.

For more information on the good old days of illicit production, read Brotherhood of Eternal Love.

[sacrament32]

What if u were in a different country that didnt moniter those chemicals could u get them there and ship them to the u.s.

[2cesarewild]

Yea you sure could but I don't think Customs would like you too much if they busted open your package filled with ET.

[EllisDTripp]

Yea you sure could but I don't think Customs would like you too much if they busted open your package filled with ET.


Just tell them you have the mother of all migraines, and with prescription drug prices being what they are, it's cheaper to import the stuff by the kilo.

That way you and the agents can all have a good laugh while they haul your ass to federal prison...

:)

[2cesarewild]

lmao...

[kiss_the_cook]

yes,lsd sysnth is hard,but not impossible for a non chem student.if Dr. Albert Hofmann could do it in 1938 buy accedent and wheat ergot.than you may have a chance.just take it one step at a time and read books by uncle fester and jack b nimble and that should be a good start. and as far a geting your hands on regulated chems, you dont have to, just synth them from other non regulated.i myself am close friends with a 7th year chem/pharm student and he says that the reason chemist dont like to show the easest ways is 1 there egocentric or 2 thay dont want people cuting in on there bissness



ps dose any one know what the street value of anhydrous ammonia is.

i just acquired 6 propane tanks full

[2cesarewild]

lol, when did you acquire your unlimited amount of stupidity?

[Psylence]

yes,lsd sysnth is hard,but not impossible for a non chem student.if Dr. Albert Hofmann could do it in 1938 buy accedent and wheat ergot.than you may have a chance.just take it one step at a time and read books by uncle fester and jack b nimble and that should be a good start. and as far a geting your hands on regulated chems, you dont have to, just synth them from other non regulated.i myself am close friends with a 7th year chem/pharm student and he says that the reason chemist dont like to show the easest ways is 1 there egocentric or 2 thay dont want people cuting in on there bissness



ps dose any one know what the street value of anhydrous ammonia is.

i just acquired 6 propane tanks full



I don't think ego or losing profits is much of the reason why no one would share their methods. The real resons would be, Its not so much about the easy way, its more about chemical availability, people work really hard and do alot of research to find ways to synth w/o using suspicious chems...now if everyone knew how to make MDMA out of peanut butter and motor oil....dont you think anyone could just download the recipe and make it? and dont you think that within a few months you could not buy peanut butter or motor oil anywhere..If I did 6 months of reseach to discover that...and someone got my chems listed...i would be pissed.
I think that anyone can do anyone of these synths..even LSD (hoffman var.)...If you are ready to totaly devote ALOT of time and ALOT of money....dont expect to wake up one day and say " hey, nice weather, I wanna make some TMA-2" and think that you will have some product the next day...not going to happen! Without formal training in school this adventure will be harder but you still can do it, take the time to learn why the reactions work, practice distillation with non-expensive chems, read the MSDS sheets on everything you use.....
Then again some people are just better off consumers...you need to be ready to handle paranoia (worse than ever), you need to be able to keep your mouth shut "silence is golden".....yes its very cool that you can cook up a half a kilo of MDMA...but 15 years in prison is not, also you need to be a good social engineer....If you are ready for this, take the plunge, make the best stuff you can, make sure its pure and dont cut it, dont get greedy .
I dont think your ammonia has a steet value, keep it...you might need it :)

[kiss_the_cook]

no street value ? what. you do know that anhydrous ammonia in restricted sales. and used to whip up a batch of meth in a little over a hour.

update: just got a carton of pseudo, looks like its time to go to the camara store

[EllisDTripp]

ps dose any one know what the street value of anhydrous ammonia is.

i just acquired 6 propane tanks full

Hope they aren't anywhere near a populated area.

NH3 will rapidly eat through a standard carbon steel propane tank. You need stainless steel for safe storage.

Then again, meth cooks aren't exactly known for giving a shit about anyone else's safety...:rolleyes:

[StonerBill]

wow this thread is still going. so boring listening to people talk about why you can or cant make acid. its like people WANT to think that its not possible, just so that they can feel better about themselves for not being arsed to try.

ah well, some day theyll make a drug thats better than lsd anyway

[kiss_the_cook]

[QUOTE= just think of how much that burned his skin and lungs, being inside a concentrated cloud of NH3 gas, all of a sudden!

[/QUOTE] yea,you should see what it can do to your eyes ,i saw a guy open a valve on a hot tank when i worked at a fertalizer plant,long story short i dont work there any more.but i do know my way a round NH3 and i wear a hazmat suit just incase

[Raul Duke]

I know a person who I attend university with who looked into it, and fully appreciates just how difficult it would be. Only a few of the chemicals needed would have to be purchased, as some of the harder ones to find could be derived from other sources. However, I don't know if you all understand just how closely those several chemicals are watched. Not only do the sellers have to report that you bought it, you have to report on 1. why you needed it, 2. why you needed SPECIFICALLY that chemical, 3. lab procedures or plans for using it, 4. what you did with the reacted product, 5. who you then sold whatever you made to, 6. what you did with the waste...the list goes on.

Another problem with the equipment is not just that you can't just order it, it's excessively expensive. For just one section of one step in one synthesis (there are many needed to make lycergic acid) you need test tubes which run 400 - 600 dollars EACH. This is what they mean when they say that it's expensive to do. Not only are they expensive, they're expensive for a reason - they're so hard to make because they're so fragile.

Keep in mind that another problem is a place to actually carry out the experiment. You generally need a well-stocked lab to do all the synthesis, plus storage facilities. Not something you could just whip out in your house, given that you had managed to get all the chemicals, someone (or someones) to make it and a distro plan.

I do have a friend who I am confident could make it, and he has read a good deal of "procedures" for the synthesis, and found that most of them are horribly incomplete. To answer the question of the thread...remember those experiments you did in high school science class? Remember how badly those went? Not one of the reactions in lycergic acid synthesis is that simple. You have to make extremely precise measurements, very specific combinations...not simple.

Basically...you can't do it, so don't worry about it. An article linked out of Erowid (or on Erowid, I don't remember) guesses that most of the LSD available is made by a few experienced chemists. They weren't kidding.

Edit - just read one of the above posts....Albert Hoffman was able to make LSD-25 so easily because he already had synthetic lycergic acid, after which point it is only a matter of a few comparatively simple reactions to create the final product. Most of the difficulty is in making a viable product of lycergic acid.

[fryingsquirrel]

yes,lsd sysnth is hard,but not impossible for a non chem student.if Dr. Albert Hofmann could do it in 1938 buy accedent and wheat ergot.than you may have a chance.just take it one step at a time and read books by uncle fester and jack b nimble and that should be a good start. and as far a geting your hands on regulated chems, you dont have to, just synth them from other non regulated.i myself am close friends with a 7th year chem/pharm student and he says that the reason chemist dont like to show the easest ways is 1 there egocentric or 2 thay dont want people cuting in on there bissness



ps dose any one know what the street value of anhydrous ammonia is.

i just acquired 6 propane tanks full



Dr Hoffman meant to make LSD, he just didn't know what it did. The Fester book is required reading for anyone who is thinking about this, it explains not only the chemistry, but also how to get chems, legal implications, ect... While a degree in chemistry is not needed, alot of time in a lab (legal or otherwise) is. Anny goes $100 a gallon where I live, but it is probably more in areas where it's not so common.

[polymer]

1) Unavailibilty of supplies
2) Lack of knowledge. LSD is one of the hardest drugs to synthesize.
3) Lack of want to make LSD. A lot of time, effort, money, and possible failure are involved. Why not get started today making speed?

I have several LSD synthesises on my computer. I'd be glad to email them to you, if you feel you can use them. Here's a bit from one of them.

Understand it? Did you even understand one whole sentance? I do.

that procedure is fairly straightforward; the tricky part lies in filtration of the intermediates, under red and yellow lamps (you can't just carry out the whole thing in florescent or incandescent light); decomposition is the main concern.

of course, access to the equipment and precursors is the major issue, that goes without saying.

[polymer]

IMO, to be able to grasp all the concepts involved one would need at LEAST a 4 year degree, or equivalent, in organic chem. lol

nonsense. you'd just have to be well-read, and practiced at the arts (distillation, filtration, isolation, chromotography, etc.)

but to you wannabe chemists: if you want to synth a psychedelic, you'd be better off acquiring ring-substituted styrene, and synthing phenethylamines.

[2cesarewild]

polymer: how are you going to be practiced in the arts without some form of education, whether being clandestine from an experienced person or legitimate in a university. I'd say 4 years is a good amount oif time, university, or trailer lol.

[polymer]

polymer: how are you going to be practiced in the arts without some form of education, whether being clandestine from an experienced person or legitimate in a university. I'd say 4 years is a good amount oif time, university, or trailer lol. you don't need a formal education to be erudite/well practiced; I've worked with some people who've had 15+ years experience doing wet chem. procedures for radiation testing (Eberline) , with no college education.

I have college ed under my belt, but it isn't really necessary, depending on the application (i.e. illicit synthesis), though it helps; it also helps to have a proper work environment, with the appropriate equipment

albeit, synthing LSD is fairly involved, it's not quite separating radioactive isotopes.

who the fuck am i kidding...lsd is quite tricky to synth.

[2cesarewild]

Yea man some people just don't get it lol, they think some hick who cooks meth can synth L just as easily.

[polymer]

Yea man some people just don't get it lol, they think some hick who cooks meth can synth L just as easily. LMAO

that's the difference between a 6 year old kid making a ham and cheese sandwich, and trying to make a perfect soufflé (one that doesn't collapse).

one the other hand, there are also chem grads that would also have a tough time making L, especially if they bs'ed their way through labs, and half-assed the techniques

[adrian nor]

d-lysergic acid amide - d-lysergic acid diethylamide

How hard CAN it be?? Shulgin created TONS of chems! He got time to do it! Come on!!

[adrian nor]

LMAO

that's the difference between a 6 year old kid making a ham and cheese sandwich, and trying to make a perfect soufflé (one that doesn't collapse).

one the other hand, there are also chem grads that would also have a tough time making L, especially if they bs'ed their way through labs, and half-assed the techniques
But on the other hand, meth is probably kiddy, kiddy-stuff in comparison...

PS: Got any synths from meth to MDMA(3,4-MethyleneDioxyMethAmphetamine). Prob. just easier to make it from the safrole or myristicin though. I'm just a courious soul! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/humm.gif

[adrian nor]

BUT! A little note... If you're going to make LSD, don't rush. It may take a week of working... Wouldn't it be worth it? With meth you'll prob. get it with MINIMAL work.

[polymer]

But on the other hand, meth is probably kiddy, kiddy-stuff in comparison...

PS: Got any synths from meth to MDMA(3,4-MethyleneDioxyMethAmphetamine). Prob. just easier to make it from the safrole or myristicin though. I'm just a courious soul! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/humm.gif i have the whole rhodium archive, and then some. At one point, back in 2000, some people used to think I was Strike (i reside in south/central texas). it is easier just to make it from safrole, or even catechol.

information, in itself, shouldn't be censored... it's what you do with that information that can be incriminating.

[polymer]

a few words to the wise:

1) do extractions to get what you're after; most of the time, the organic sources are legal, and the reagents used are easily accessible; reagent precursors are far more suspicious, as are alibis.

(side note: don't try to collect ergot to synth 'cid ...handling ergot is a good way to get gangrene)

2) always pay cash. credit card transaction info becomes fair game to feds, and info is logged into databases like Echelon (if you don't know what that is, google it...it'll open your eyes to what's really going on)

3) don't become caught up in the money game of the black market; that's a sure way to get caught. use your best judgement, and only consult with your closest friends with whom you trust with your deepest secrets.

[baloon]

i mean.. i keep reading that you need to be a really qualified scientist to make lsd. why is this? i mean, what physical processes can be done by a.. chemist.. but not anyone else? to chemists have better stiring action? can they see in ultra violet?

cant a scientist write a very precise list of instructions and anyone with the equiptment could follow those instructions and make it?

arent chemist scholars only important in the descovery of the chemical? which part of the production process requires physical skills learnt in chemistry?

when doctor X synthesized somewhat of LSD, I believe it was totally by accident and I believe he was trying to extract some sort of a mold from wheat. so that might do it :)

I think you don't need to have a phd in chemistry do do this, but surely as mentioned, you have to have Lots of experiences, see the stuff you are working with, so you know what you are doing. It might say in the instructions that you are trying to get X by following Y into Z, but if you don't know what X even looks like, you might get (exaggerated) green liquid instead of a red solid, etc. In general, chemistry is a very precise science, sometimes error to the 5th decimal Can be serious.

[EllisDTripp]

when doctor X synthesized somewhat of LSD, I believe it was totally by accident and I believe he was trying to extract some sort of a mold from wheat. so that might do it

No, when Dr. Hofmann synthesized LSD he knew EXACTLY what he was trying to make-lysergic acid diethylamide. It was #25 in a series of compounds created by methodically adding various functional groups onto a lysergic acid skeleton. Good old-fashioned "cut-and-paste" chemistry. The various compounds thus created were then assayed for pharmacological effects by testing on animals.

When LSD was given to the animals, they became agitated and restless, but nothing remarkable (or pharmacologically useful) was seen, so the compound was more or less forgotten about. It was only several years later when Dr. Hofmann made a new batch and accidentally ingested some that the peculiar mental effects of LSD became known. He intentionally took a 250 ug dose a few days later, and the rest is history...

In short, the SYNTHESIS of LSD was no accident. Only the discovery of it's effects on the human mind was...

[polymer]

he was trying to develop a lysergamide derivative for migraine treatment (basically Sansert...methysergide), from ergotamine tartrate, and stumbled upon LSD-25s psychoactivity by accident

[Viruk]

See the problem with everyone saying its "too hard" to get the stuff needed to make it, is that eventually everyone will believe you assholes, and no one will even try. You guys are killing LSD.
Everytime you say its impossible to make, you kill it just a bit more.
I'm pretty sure that if you had a friend with a machining shop, and another friend that was a glass blower, you could MAKE all the necessary equipment. As to the chemicals, it may be a longer process but couldnt you make those also?
And I dont think you would need to be a chemist, if someone wrote fool proof instructions that explained certain terms anyone could do it.
Also if you knew a guy who could make it, he could teach you a method to make it, you wouldnt have to know anything. Just add this, mix this, filter this.
Its like baking. Oh I can't make a chocolate cake because im not a 5star chef? fuck yourself.

[polymer]

the problem, more than anything (after looking into it, proving my previous suspicions inaccurate) is getting ergotamine tartrate (It's watched under the Chemical Diversions and Control act), dimethylamine is also very watched.


The molecule is very brittle at the 8-position carboxamide, hence why LSD is a fairly unstable molecule:

"The position of the carboxamide attachment, the 8-position, is affected by basic, or high pH, conditions. Through a process called epimerization, this position can scramble, producing isolysergic acid diethylamide, or iso-LSD. This product is biologically inactive, and represents a loss of a proportionate amount of active product." (Alex Shulgin)

http://www.hallucinogens.com/lsd/

his procedure is not all that hard, I could follow it to a T.. but the environment factor (low lighting..red or yellow lamps, and absolutely precise molar concentrations) is of significant importance, which I've mentioned before. Not the hardest thing to make (synthing Ibogaine makes this look like boiling water), but not the easiest either; there's no room for carelessness.

[polymer]

And I dont think you would need to be a chemist, if someone wrote fool proof instructions that explained certain terms anyone could do it.I would agree with this, except for one thing: it also takes practice; because of the margin of error possible from synthing LSD, one must practice precision measurements and titration. It's an art, like cooking.

making something as fragile as LSD is like making a souffle, it takes practice.

[Viruk]

So you practice. Once you feel you can handle it you could probably make it.
Everyone acts like its impossible, but its been made by a lot of people in the world, and im pretty sure that not all of them were super geniuses with chemistry diplomas from a swiss university.

[StonerBill]

yeh its the word 'impossible' as well as the whole idea that having a phd or degree effects your biological capacity to undertake intructions.

you dont need to know everything about chemistry to make lsd you only need to know teh relevant bits of info that could EASILY be fit into a single book which anyone could read.

i hope people can start to be convinced now that we are at page 8, that the hard part in making lsd is getting the prerequisites, and not the process of manufacture, which is hard, but nothing close to impossible (which is a word thrown around by insecure people all the time to try to apply to other people's abilities)

[Viruk]

I dont think they'll ever really learn, cops have made them all into tools. You're all victims of reefer madness!

[polymer]

not us, but mainstream society; yes, they have been duped by the "war on drugs" propaganda, that goes all the way back to the Anslinger heyday

[Neuronaut7]

Talk to any chemist who has read and understands the instructions, and they'll tell you it's not exactly something that most people could do. I doubt you could make the glassware for the synth - those test tubes that run in the hundreds of dollars cost that much for a reason.

Like polymer said, it's the ET that's the hardest part. Hofmann had very little lab equipment (there are pictures on the net of the things he used to create the molecule) but that was because he already had ET. SWIM has looked into this in a serious manner, he wants to do it and nothing else, even other RC's which would be less of a hassle to make, and he's told me that it's very hard. Not impossible, but hard. Impossible for an average person in that most people aren't going to have the drive to find ET (a kilogram is worth around 600,000$ as of around 2000), purchase thousands of dollars worth of glassware and other lab equipment (even if you could make it yourself, you're going to have to buy glass, and it's going to take several attempts to get it right, things break, etc) without turning heads, find a place to do it (again without turning heads - even Pickard got caught), do it several times to get it right (how many kids have screwed up basic high school chem experiements?), perform washes....all to get a product that you then have to lay on sheets or geltabs or whatever (which gets you VERY high in the process - not necessarily a bad thing), which won't even make you THAT much money? Only people with 1. good connections, 2. lots of starting capital, 3. a real drive to do it and 4. ...some other stuff.

Tell me about Ibogaine...you intrigued me with your comment about how much more difficult than synthesizing LSD it is.

[DarkLunacy]

Take a basic chemistry class in Community College.... That should put it into perspective

[polymer]

Tell me about Ibogaine...you intrigued me with your comment about how much more difficult than synthesizing LSD it is.Ibogaine has an unstable, 7-membered ring attached to the indole-base, plus it's a 3-D molecule, and it has chiral centers (this is what makes it hard to manipulate, especially since one is near a Nitrogen); it's a derivative of nicotinic acid (niacin), and Shulgin points out in Tihkal that there's no practical or easy way to synth it from nicotinic acid, to get any decent yields; he didn't even site a synth procedure. It's pretty tough to make.

on a synthesis difficulty scale of 1 - 10 (with the necessary lab conditions present), Ibogaine is an 11; LSD is a 7.5, maybe an 8.

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal25.shtml

this is an example of when a plant extraction is much more practical than an all-out synthesis.


now for contrast, read this entry (for LSD), and look at that molecule

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml

the synth is fairly straight-forward; absence of light, Chlorine, and excessive basic conditions, are the important elements of producing a product that will be psychoactive.

the precursors are the only things preventing myself and a colleague from potentially synthing it; especially during this time of political strife, an acid wave is probably just the thing society could use right about now.

[Sarombi]

about 2000 dollars worth of glass ware is needed i believe

[satirul]

i'm no expert,but just wondering...couldn't that glassware be improvised?

[christa]

i am graduating with a double major in chemistry and recombinant gene technology. not quite "hotshit" yet, but maybe one day. that being said, like any technique that is particularly complicated or requires fine precision, chemical operations take practice to get right. example: would you know how to set up a kit to distill something? its not simple. do you feel comfortable vacuum filtering mixtures? no doubt, the entire time, you will be wondering "am i doing this right?" i suppose in theory you could try. but i do imagine it would be a lot easier for a chemist who perhaps knows something about these chemicals, what their labels mean, how to handle and dispose of waste properly, their properties...as well as experience with the techniques. its not all stirring, you know?

[christa]

Well, if you are able to learn enough chemistry to UNDERSTAND the written instructions, and were given the equipment and materials, then you should certainly be able to do it. But by the time you get to that point, you are getting pretty close to being a CHEMIST. No, having a college degree in chemistry isn't a requirement, but a good working knowledge of chemistry and lab techniques IS. And for the vast majority of folks, the best way to acquire such skills would be a course of formal study.




It doesn't even prove that. It only proves that you paid your tuition, showed up in class, and were able to pass tests. :) I've met a few degreed chemists who were completely inept when you actually stick them at a lab bench and tell them to carry out a synthesis. Like every other field, modern chemistry education is emphasizing computer models and simulations over "hands-on" skills these days.
yeah, but i would argue that there is so much information stuffed down your throat during those four (or five) years that , while you may have a general idea of the process requires, you cannot be expected to synthesize any random chemical upon request. maybe i am one of those people you are talking about, but i've found that my education has primarily been useful so that i can actually halfway understand what the fuck they are saying in the journal articles and books. example, i've learned about the whole metabolic pathway but i can't recite it to you off the top of my head (though i will have to if i go to grad school). if you do research, you tend to get very involved in what you are studying, rather than acquire a broad range of knowledge.

[polymer]

i've known kids who were bookworms, all theory. when it came time to applying the theory in the lab, they were awkward. I'm the opposite, practically a lab virtuoso

quantitative analysis lab is one of the most useful courses you're going to take in chem..it's where you hone your titration, weighing, and dimensional analysis skills, with great precision. you can't carry out synthesis, unless you master some sort of precision.
I remembered this for myself the other night, when I goofed (it's rare, but it happens) on some measurements, did some improv, and ended up with some beta-carboline, and some mono substituted-tryptamine; though it was psychoactive (colorful moving patterns, color sine waves and lines, for about 8 minutes).

[jrod]

you're my hero polymer!

i have never attempted it.

[polymer]

lol

I forgot to add some methanol to the solution, and added it late; so I ended up with some other funky tryptamine

next time, I won't smoke Diesel (or any bud for that matter) before I initiate the reaction.

[polymer]

who said I was in a lab? ;)

this is "extra-curricular"

[polymer]

nope, done on a table under a ventilation duct, with 24/40 glassware, magnetic stir plate, fiberglass mantle, and ACS grade reagents. I commute to my colleague's house to do this, rather than attempt it in my apartment;
my whimsical project to convert a mundane dietary supplement into one of the most intriguing compounds known to man.

i tried the process again yesterday, and may have got it right. my friend isn't answering his phone http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[polymer]

dammit...
he said no dice; we're probably going to figure out a different approach; trying to disubstitute tryptamine in the presence of even a weak acid seems to lend itself to cyclization, giving beta-carbolines, or mono-subbed indole crap.

[bellringer]

From reading this as someone who absolutly could not do this, well without someone actually showing me how. It seems "possible" to do with enough determination, so keep on trying...more acid floating around is always fine with me.

[polymer]

oh nahh...I wasn't trying to make acid; I can't get e.t. (ergotamine tartrate) nor dimethylamine. I do wish I had those. Technically they could be made (derived from other syntheses), but it would be messy and hazardous, not to mention very tedious.

[Last Stand]

First of all, LSD is needed right now. Our time is disected, analyzed, connected and exploited by technology, media and most of our friends and family. We are connected by cell phones, PDA's, and God knows what else.

Everyone, take off your cell for a few hours, disconnect and find a nice comfortable place in your living room or beautiful natural surrounding with a couple of good friends, good music, some drinks (for later) and weed and take at least 80-400+ micrograms (obviously the 400 mics for the experienced psychonauts) of LSD and enjoy the timeless voyage.

The reason why LSD is scarce is because the two gentlemen who produced 95% of it were busted. I'm sure I had a lot of their product back in the day (1985-1990) because it was so clean and predictable. Very nice, creative, intellectual, colorful stuff.

Bad and often erroneous press didn't help.

So, someone please make tons of it (the mean, mean world needs it)and until then remember your "Set and Setting" guidelines kiddies and take those lovely mushrooms and hold down the psychedelic fort.

[Last Stand]

Common LSD, being of the strangest drugs, available to people on the
black market, is not too hard to make in your average run-of-the-mill
kitchen. LSD (Lysergic acid Diethylamide) is a complex organic mixure that
gives some people (most) a trip to the moon or other nearby celestial
body.


ITEMS NEEDED:
----- ------

1-About 200-250 grams of MORNING GLORY SEEDS or BAY HAWAIIAN WOOD ROSE
SEEDS. The Morning Glory seeds can be obtained at most plant nurseries.

2-200 cc. of petroleum ether

3-Small piece of window screen or a strainer

4-A couple of large glasses

5-cookie tray (an old one, never to be used again)

6-260 cc. of wood alcohol (call your local drug store).

7-Capsule containers (jel)

================================================== =======================

Let's get started:

1. Grind up about 170 grams of Morning Glory Seeds.

2. In 145 cc. of petroleum ether, soak the seeds for two or three days.

3. With screen, filter the liquid thru it and save the seed mush and
allow it to dry completely.

4. Let the mush soak in 130 cc. of wood alcohol.

5. Filter solution again only. Save the liquid in a large glass jar.

6. Soak the seed mush again in 130 cc. of wood alcohol for two more days.

7. Filter out the mush and keep the liquid. Now, get the liquid that was
saved in step 5.

8. Now, pour both liquids in a cookie tray and let it dry.

9. When all the liquid has dried, a yellowish gummy looking substance will
appear on the cookie sheet.

10. Take the yellow gum and put this into capsules.

[Last Stand]

The LSD is gone and the war on psychedelics is winning. It is unbelievably difficult to make and to obtain the right substances to make it with (eating moldy rye won't do it.) The makers of the LSD that you consumed are in jail - all of them pretty much. If you see acid today at all it is what is known as "analog acid" missing some of the essential components for the real deal high. You get a body high and if you are imaginative you might see things more colorfully than otherwise - not that I know from experience or anything. And it costs about $20. And I thought gas prices had gone up. Someday we will meet again old friend and that day will be glorious. Ahem, until then, fungi do, in fact, abound so dig in while you can.
As a side note, can you imagine if the Leary vision had been accomplished and people looking to "reprogram" themselves could go to their neighborhood center and sit down for a legal, safe, and regulated high administered by professionals. During the high you would be subjected to the information you had provided them with so you could tap specific messages (of whatever nature) more directly into your subconscious. Crazy huh? We weren't so far from that happening once. Ah well. I suppose the age of acceptance has yet to come. It will be more likely after the age of fear of insanity and mental disease comes to an end.

[Last Stand]

You don't stomp out a black market product with law enforcement, you just drive the price up.

Meth killed acid. It's simple economics. LSD is non-addictive, more or less. Crank is massively addictive. Each separate user/dealer/wholesaler is a potential law enforcement "in", so the fact that LSD users buy infrequently, requiring many many many more users to buy all of your last batch, vs. notoriously monomaniacal tweekers, is a huge downside. LSD is much more difficult in terms of equipment and raw materials to produce than crank is. If you're a chemist/cook, PROFESSIONALLY, why are you risking a lifetime in jail (in either case) for less than maximum profit? Jesus god, actual crystal meth hasn't existed since the mid '90s, and that's with more and more affluent (ahem) clubgoers willing to pay premium for "the good shit". Nasty-ass industrial grade bathtub crank is just too much more cost effective to produce, even though there's a market for the alternative. What chance does acid have?

Then again, what exactly does it take to cook up E? Oh, right, addiction. Fucking bastard-ass market forces.

What I wonder is, doses are tiny, you can conceal them in anything from a sheet of notebook paper to a roll of SweetTarts to a tester phial of perfume, they're undetectable to drug-sniffing dogs (?), why the fuck can't somebody smuggle some across the border? Penalties for production/distribution in Canada have to be much much less, and probably selectively non-existant in Mexico. Additionally, that's the one damn time it would make economic sense, when its compact and undetectable nature (vs. huge bales of green stuff that reek from a mile away, at least) would make it cost effective for smuggling purposes. Remember the legend about John Lennon flying over with enough pure acid to dose all of London? One phial. How much BC Bud would it take to smoke out all of Seattle? A railroad car full? Five? Fifty?

I guess I'll just have to wait until every potential US, Canadian, and Mexican tweaker is as gacked out as (sub)humanly possible. Then maybe someone'll cook up a batch, throw it in their glove box, drive it across the Peace Arch, and I can fry balls again.

Last time I got actual acid was in Olympia in either 2000 or 2001, at All Freakin' Night, Oly Film Fest's all night B-horror marathon... I peaked during the part in Dead Alive [aka Brain Dead] when he takes the lawnmower to all the zombies and is calf-deep in blood. Hell Yes Motherfucker.

I hate 'shrooms, the sludgy high reminds me of too many 104 degree fever induced dementia-nightmares I used to have as a kid. Never had a bad trip on acid, rarely if ever had a good one w/shrooms.

[EllisDTripp]

LSD (Lysergic acid Diethylamide) is a complex organic mixure...

No, LSD is a single, precisely defined chemical compound.

The procedure you posted does NOT produce LSD. It is a simple extraction, which will give a crude mixture of ergot alkaloids (lysergic acid amide, mainly) and other junk which will produce a psychoactive effect.

[Beckner420]

Still, LSA sure beats bunk LSD, and a hell of a lot easier to make.

[GothModernHippy]

just make LSA and smoke some dope with it damn ya don't need to jump outta no window or anything. Just whatever you do make sure you use PETROLEUM ether and not ethyl ether otherwise you'll have little multicolored stars that won't go away for rest of your life


"Time is merely an illusion created as a by-product of the human equallibrium."

[Dist0rted Dre4ms]

But in the end it all worked out fine and he ended up with approx. 12grams (!!!) of acid (that‚s almost 100,000 hits!). I never found out, what happened to all that stuff... :confused:

THAT is exactly the reason for his delay. ANYONE who has taken up to Chemistry II in High School can testify that reactions rarely happen perfectly, and the purity even in a large batch can be less than desirable.

A real scientist can take needed procautions to up the purity of the reactions using certain reaction containers and what not to insure complete reactions. This includes proper temperatures, proper preasures, and potentially catalysts. Want proof?

Felix Hoffmann and Arthur Eichengrun were the two scientists responsible for creating Aspirin, but anyone can make aspirin. Any idiot with the proper chemicals can synthesize the stuff, right? It's a simple esterfication reaction where the OH bond from Salicylic Acid reacts with Acetic Anhydride to form Acetylsalicylic Acid and Acetic Acid. Alright, in a perfect world this would work out perfectly and you would have 100 percent yeild, but this never EVER happens.

Everyone in my highschool chemistry class did this reaction and got a maximum purity of about 60 percent. Luckily, in this reaction the other 40 percent is likely going to be powdered Salicylic Acid which has the same effects as Aspirin (as well as knocking the pH of your stomache out of alignment) and is relatively safe, but in the case of other reactions this has the potential to being dangerous as hell. LSD, I have no idea... Either way, you have less product and you'll be selling an inferior compound, potentially.

Hope that helps. Take it from a Chemical Engineering major.

[Philo_1er]

Common LSD, being of the strangest drugs, available to people on the
black market, is not too hard to make in your average run-of-the-mill
kitchen. LSD (Lysergic acid Diethylamide) is a complex organic mixure that
gives some people (most) a trip to the moon or other nearby celestial
body.


ITEMS NEEDED:
----- ------

1-About 200-250 grams of MORNING GLORY SEEDS or BAY HAWAIIAN WOOD ROSE
SEEDS. The Morning Glory seeds can be obtained at most plant nurseries.

2-200 cc. of petroleum ether

3-Small piece of window screen or a strainer

4-A couple of large glasses

5-cookie tray (an old one, never to be used again)

6-260 cc. of wood alcohol (call your local drug store).

7-Capsule containers (jel)

================================================== =======================

Let's get started:

1. Grind up about 170 grams of Morning Glory Seeds.

2. In 145 cc. of petroleum ether, soak the seeds for two or three days.

3. With screen, filter the liquid thru it and save the seed mush and
allow it to dry completely.

4. Let the mush soak in 130 cc. of wood alcohol.

5. Filter solution again only. Save the liquid in a large glass jar.

6. Soak the seed mush again in 130 cc. of wood alcohol for two more days.

7. Filter out the mush and keep the liquid. Now, get the liquid that was
saved in step 5.

8. Now, pour both liquids in a cookie tray and let it dry.

9. When all the liquid has dried, a yellowish gummy looking substance will
appear on the cookie sheet.

10. Take the yellow gum and put this into capsules.
Your so called common LSD is an LSA extraction. Thanks for the misinformation. In your follow up post you seem like a down to earth person that believes in better living through chemistry and understanding of the self. Why post erroneous information?

[polymer]

It's a simple esterfication reaction where the OH bond from Salicylic Acid reacts with Acetic Anhydride to form Acetylsalicylic Acid and Acetic Acid. actually, it's an acetylation reaction [of the phenolic hydroxy group], not esterification. esterification occurs when reacting an acid halide group with a primary alcohol, a carboxilic acid with a primary alcohol (Fisher Esterification), or a ketone with a peroxy acid, in the presence of a good protonating agent (an acid catalyst). you forgot the H2SO4, or else nothing would happen; activation energy required for the reaction to occur is too high to just react salicylic acid with acetic anhydride, needs an acid catalyst.

..and organic chemists are the ones that make things happen.
chemical engineers just find ways to make money off what the chemists make. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

[mynameissam]

Why not get started today making speed? How do you make speed?

[polymer]

How do you make speed?
by accelerating.

[EllisDTripp]

How do you make speed?

First, you get one of these...

http://www.hipgallery.com/photopost2/uploads/56/meth_lab.jpeg

[trippedelia]

hahahaha i saw that on google once

[crazydiamond75]

That picture also serves as social commentary in that the junior chemist on the right will statistically get detention more often and for longer periods than the junior chemist on the left. Especially in the south...

[polymer]

kid on the left already looks high on the fumes.

[AmericaOnLSD]

Am I just being stupid here or what? Granted, I have not had any organic chemistry courses, but I've had a year and a half of inorganic chemistry. Maybe I'm missing something very basic, but it seems like this should not be that hard. To synthesize from scratch would be, but lets talk about starting with LSA. Why won't this work?

1. Extract LSA for MG or HBWR or whatever.
2. React the lysergic acid amines with a base of some type - let's say calcium hydroxide for convenience in the next step. This should give the calcium salt of lysergic acid, correct?
3. React this calcium salt of lysergic acid with dilute sulfuric acid. This should give calcium sulfate (which is insoluable) plus lysergic acid.
4. React the resulting lysergic acid with diethylamine in a simple neutralization reaction. While diethylamine is probably not the easiest thing in the world to make, I don't believe it is rocket science either.

[fryingsquirrel]

No, you would get the calcium salt of LSA. While that might get you tripping, it gets you no closer to LSD. Diethylamine can be made by heating ammonia and ethyl iodide under pressure, then distilling. However, I've never had a chemistry class of any kind, so I dunno, give it a try and tell us how it turns out.

[polymer]

While diethylamine is probably not the easiest thing in the world to make, I don't believe it is rocket science either. diethylamine could be procured by ammonia and ethanol plus a catalyst. certainly not rocket science.

but rocket science probably isn't as tricky as protecting a carbonyl attached to a chiral carbon. LSD is stereospecific, and lysergic acid isomerizes with excessively acidic conditions rendering it inactive.

[elephantking]

I know my chemistry teacher smoked pot, but if only I could make a synthesis request. heh

[polymer]

i really like shulgin's synth on tikal.

if one had a makeshift plexiglass fumehood, with gloves and all, and a clean batch of e.t. (which there is also a comprehensive synth), as well as diethylamine which can be made, one could feasibly make the stuff, if one were careful and had precise instruments for monitoring pH and weighing out reagents.

I imagine it'd take a bit of practice, anything worthwhile usually does..but that's the nice thing about procuring the e.t. ... the raw fungi can be reproduced over and over, if you can just find the wild source; it's free.

[dns2127]

hi, well i have read all the posts and i must say that some guys seem to have a certain understanding of the procedure. my best friend who is a chemist says that all theese procedures MUST be done at a lab, and even then it will be extremely hard to get the stuff you need to transform the stuff to the real ingridients you nedd to make it. i have tried LSD some times in different years and i my experince tells me that real LSD is dead, the lsd that is on the market today is mechanical like to the body, not like the real deal from back then. if anybody can make it please let me know, since my friend would like to take i look at i too. in Denmark it is hard to get lsd, but it can be bought for about 8.- usd. that is about enough for a good trip and i would say it is pretty good and totally clean in fluid. all i know is that it`s made here in Denmark, and some in Germany.

[Ganja man]

Why do all these people chat like they know how to make lsd but when somebody starts a thread asking for a recipe they just go on about being a shit hot chemist, bullshit nobody knows what they are talking about we are all sad teens who cant get hooked up and there for even consider making LSD. nobody knows or somebody would of given a good recipe this guy started a good thread just give him and me a straight answer

[OctopusNightstand]

... you serious. Because its hard... its an easy enough procedure but increadibly precise, you make one tiny mistake you ruin the whole thing there is a link somewhere to a kitchen synth look harder... If i wasnt a lazy asshole i would try it. then again i dont feel like being on a national registry. use google

[SQUIDPUPPY]

I have to say that real LSD is SWIMS favorite substance.. (Have not seen or ingested any actually half good stuff in nearly ten years) Yes, the chems are a drag to acquire and the proven snth steps are for only those that have some high grade lab skills.... Here's a solution....All you dreamers who want to make LSD at home: First, make up some home made meth... Do that a year or two until you have some skills and a clientele that always comes back for more.. Then, step up to making up some batches of MDMA... Do that a couple of years,, By then, you'll have enough money and lab experience and knowledge to play around with different chems and reactions to make up about 2/3 of all the stuff in PIHKAL/TIHKAL.... With that amount of 'product' for sale; surely someone will step forward and either put the cuffs on your ass for a 50 year prison sentence, or , just maybe, one of the true LSD artists will take you under wing and educate you on all those pesky, truly important synth details.... SQUID

[DellySid]

I found on ebay basic and advanced organic chemistry kits for a decent price ($100-$300)

You Only need expensive equipment if you plan on purifying it...but most skip this step as its not needed. The only impurity in the resulting product is isoLsd wich is not active in the body. Most synth. routes if done right give you over 60% active Lsd,wich is plenty enough considering you get over 3 grams doing the synth. right. I know tons about this becaz ive spent 10 months studying lsd. I started by reading Festers Lsd book but then learned of all its errors and now I read patents, which are much more helpful. PM me if you have any more ?s.

Ive estimated that Lsd can be made by any person with a Little over $1000.00 bucks.

[DellySid]

I found on ebay basic and advanced organic chemistry kits for a decent price ($100-$300)

You Only need expensive equipment if you plan on purifying it...but most skip this step as its not needed. The only impurity in the resulting product is isoLsd wich is not active in the body. Most synth. routes if done right give you over 60% active Lsd,wich is plenty enough considering you get over 3 grams doing the synth. right. I know tons about this becaz ive spent 10 months studying lsd. I started by reading Festers Lsd book but then learned of all its errors and now I read patents, which are much more helpful. PM me if you have any more ?s.

Ive estimated that Lsd can be made by any person with a Little over $1000.00 bucks. ......

[J.C]

I think I read some were that lsd can made from lsa as a starter and not ergot, however more costly but still possable all the same.

It's true if you know the tek and lab methods and safety anyone can make lsd. However that knowlage "generally" comes with a degree, but it's not impossable to learn it from another source, just very unlikely. Do you need to be a chemist with a degree, no, but it helps. Next best thing is to find an acid cook and try to get him to teach you the trade.

J.C

[polymer]

a photolab would be an ideal place to make lsd. the equipment itself would cost upwards of 10, maybe 20,000...and most of that cost is for analysis (HPLC/MS, etc..) rather than the synthesis itself.

[jia]

a photolab would be an ideal place to make lsd. the equipment itself would cost upwards of 10, maybe 20,000...and most of that cost is for analysis (HPLC/MS, etc..) rather than the synthesis itself.almost all. those machines are expensive.

[polymer]

almost all. those machines are expensive.especially the MS.

I'd love to have one of them, but even a used one is the price of an average 3 or 4 year old used car.

[Jimmy420]

You need to GOOGLE IT BITCH!

[LiquidL]

Yea, I wish it was ten years ago, shit, I talked to this guy who was in high school a little more like 15 years ago; he got pages fronted at a dollar a hit, and of course sold them for five a hit to all his buddies in high school. I can only imagine and salivate when I think about the prices 20 years ago lol.Agreed. It used to be a lot easier to score acid even 10-11 years ago than it is now. Now, more than ever, we need the enlightenment from LSD to counter the scourge of apathy that has hit the public. Now people are too busy tweeking rather than opening their mind's eye with some good old acid.

[ancient powers]

I would have to say it's karma related. I know from my personal experience that until i one day stabalize my life and build myself into a freelance scientist with the money and time to invest into making lsd then i will be. that is the being awesome part being able to afford to do it. like making your own pharmaceutical company with only all the money you earn so get a good job and stay away from child support and court fines. and you should be able some day.

[polymer]

I would have to say it's karma related. I know from my personal experience that until i one day stabalize my life and build myself into a freelance scientist with the money and time to invest into making lsd then i will be. that is the being awesome part being able to afford to do it. like making your own pharmaceutical company with only all the money you earn so get a good job and stay away from child support and court fines. and you should be able some day.hey, I had/have the same dream.. keep on keepin on. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/newsmilies/sifone.gif

[sitonassfnwitu]

Lets see if the old nogging will work? Back in the 60s restrictions were not in place for lab equipment but now a days you could get simple equipment for making LSD> But whats the point> For one. you want real LSD. How will you determain it is LSD and not another compound forged in a make-shift still? Lets say What LSD is first Lycergic Acid Diethylamide. Break that down to Lycergic Acid itself alone. Obtaning Ergot fungus> or creating it. on your own. So whats the point? sure you can grow ergot fungus on live rye plants and harvest it. But now extracting only the alkoloids for lsd. and only lsd?
even if you extract and get crystal how will you know its the compound you need?
you woulnt in your basement lab. And will say you have this now, so you have the next stage you start your process of blends and mixtures and extractions. heating and cooling the mixture with art at hand. Its finished. Now what? Who do you try it on?
Yourself? OK you use it and soppose you do have effects which are those of lsd.
Is your compound really LSD and some other compound. And who will see your research?

[polymer]

ergotism is a real issue when dealing with the raw materials, and the analysis of ergoline compounds is beyond the faculties of most would-be kitchen chemists...but if someone was hellbent on procuring some active ergoline compounds, one could find various synthesis papers, and lit regarding analysis of said compounds. hplc is the most cost effective, non-destructive means of analyzing these compounds. lsd synthesis is not one of the most involved syntheses, but once again, isomerization is a dire issue which renders these stereospecific compounds inactive.