2012? Some questions...

[Cosmic Butterfly]

2012....Hmmm. There is a seed of doubt in me.

If I do not transcend into the 4th dimensional shift will I remain with the others in 3rd dimension? Will my doubt keep my existence from evovling, or do we all go?

Hmm hmm hmm.


If anyone would like to also give me some good information, I would appreciate it!

Blessings of LOVE

[sylvanlightning]

~* as you wish

http://www.2012.com.au/fourth_dim.html

http://www.floweroflife.org/dinterviews.htm

Namaste *~

[WhisperingWoods]

I don't believe there will be a planular shift on any specified date. Possibly after death, possibly on some unconcious level, but not in 2012.

[We] Chaotes don't seem to believe THAT crazy of shit. Heh heh..

[Mesektet]

If anything happens, Im looking forward to it, whatever it might be...

[Sebbi]

Can I just ask. WHY of all dates January 2012?

I reckon something like that will happen but only once we have all become enlightened, there are a lot of knots to untangle before this can happen so why 2012?

Blessings

Sebbi

[sitareric]

I feel it heightening, quickening, and the shifts are already occuring, if you can tune into it... I think in its wake, depending on where we are within ourselves, is where we'll end up... very much so.. I dont think theyrell be a group who goes to the fourth dimension and one who goes to the third... its all so much more subtle than that.. and if you can really tune in, to the earth, within ones silence, and observe all that is.. you will perceive the subtleties

[Cosmic Butterfly]

Thank you. I feeling alot of things as well. I do think that anything can happen, and that 2012 is enough time for a change....


Peace

[Archemetis]

these changes are taking place now, the process is a long one.

[Kandahar]

The funny thing is, after 2012 comes and goes and the apocalypse doesn't happen, the doomsayers will simply change the date.

Every doomsayer in history has been wrong, and there's no reason to assume that the ones from THIS decade are any different.

[Burbot]

is this that myan calander thing?

[Kilgore Trout]

Hilary and Obama in 2012!

[Archemetis]

The funny thing is, after 2012 comes and goes and the apocalypse doesn't happen, the doomsayers will simply change the date.

Every doomsayer in history has been wrong, and there's no reason to assume that the ones from THIS decade are any different.most of us dont believe 2012 is going to be the apocalypse...its not the end of the world, its teh end of an age.
the world is always changing, only now at a more rapid rate than ever. what with all teh information out there and communication being easier now than ever before. the earth is changing and our collective conciouseness is evolving.

[Akasha7]

2012 was important to the Mayans, and it is an astrological / astronomical configuration - but they happen all the time. Why put stock in what the Mayans thought? They didn't even predict the end of their own civilisation thru drought!

I do believe consciousness is heightening, but when people pick out specific dates - even specific days!!!! - 21 December 2012 - I think they are getting themselves into a major psychological drama for nothing. That kind of thing has been going on since before the very first Christians thought the Apocalypse would happen in their lifetimes!

Akasha

[solargarlic]

2012 Timewave Zero

I have seen my own visions
And I follow the 2012 date

There will be alot of troubles coming
Disease, War, Disasters
Most people will die before 2012
But certain people were born to live thru it

I believe in 2012 awareness
If you feel the world is ending, it makes you enjoy the time you have better

Live each day as if it is your last

And if the world doesn't end
Hey, great
^^Best advice I've seen in this post. Just dig life and promote peace, love, compassion and good vibes. Our planet is in for some tough times, but there is a golden age to come. Maybe some of us will be lucky enough to see it. If not, at least we can help bring it about. BE POSITIVE!

Love and light,

Pete

[campbell34]

The funny thing is, after 2012 comes and goes and the apocalypse doesn't happen, the doomsayers will simply change the date.

Every doomsayer in history has been wrong, and there's no reason to assume that the ones from THIS decade are any different.
In 1866 James Grant who believed the prophecies of the Bible stated: The personal coming of Christ, to establish His millennial reign on earth, will not take place until the Jews are restored to their own land, and the enemies of Christ and the Jews have gathered together their armies from all parts of the world, and have commenced the siege of Jerusalem...now the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the mustering and marshalling of these mighty armies, with a view to capturing Jerusalem, must require a considerable time yet. (This was written eighty-two years before Israel was made a nation.)
Those who follow the scriptures will know the future. The Bible does not give dates, but it does speak of what will be. And what will be, we are seeing before are very eyes, just as James Grant stated. Based on the Bible, Grant knew the Jews would be back in Israel, and he knew they would control Jerusalem. Sorry Kandahar, not everyone is wrong, and the Bible is always right.

[Archemetis]

forget about the specific date 12/12/2012...if the mayans calculations were off even a couple of second....a fraction of a second, it would throw the date off months or even years. also, its not all going to magically go down in a single day. the proccess takes years and has already been going on for a few.

[Zarathustra]

if the mayans calculations were off even a couple of second....a fraction of a second, it would throw the date off months or even years. And what part of this statement comes into contact with any kind of logic? Is it the same kind of logic that the Christians have twisted into defending their bible stories and fairy tales with nonsensical rhetoric, in hopes of surpressing scientific logic which is gradually taking away the so-called truth and credibility from their life's devotion? Do you actually believe that an "insect-alien" encountered in Terence McKenna's DMT-induced fantasies had indeed told the truth about some obscure formula for the apocalypse in 2012, or are you simply in submission to ignorance? You don't have to be afraid to admit that you are unenlightened. It is already quite obvious that most of the world is unenlightened.
I am not here to criticize you, or anyone else. I speak compassionately, not scornfully. But what I am wondering is why you and others like you desire subconciously to believe in these childish apocalyptic tales? Do you feel the need to anticipate the coming of the end? Are you so afraid of death that you are trying to fool yourself otherwise? Or are you afraid of facing death alone?
It is in the same kind of question that one asks a person of faith why they believe. To earn and honest answer to a question like this is often difficult to find when you are proposing it to someone who cannot even be honest to themselves. Thus, I do not expect an honest answer. But in this, comes the stride for my objective - to inspire honesty.

the Bible is always right.Now I feel as if I must wash my hands.

[BlackGuardXIII]

The funny thing is, after 2012 comes and goes and the apocalypse doesn't happen, the doomsayers will simply change the date.

Every doomsayer in history has been wrong, and there's no reason to assume that the ones from THIS decade are any different.
This decade? that was calculated and then recorded unknown thousands of years ago, and not changed once. Don't assume anything, we could be a food crop, and we're almost ready for harvest. The sun could fart at us and we'll all be crispy critters, or people could have a shift in consciousness......
I doubt it will be an end, dont even understand the concept.
I hope I live through the event........

[Akasha7]

"not everyone is wrong, and the Bible is always right."

This must be coming from the fundamentalist American mid-West, if you meant what you wrote literally?

The Bible is a fascinating collection of many books, also full of scores of contradictions (hence not 'always right' on that count), but Biblical scholars basically all accept that much of it is myth, allegory, and facts merged with fiction added for political reasons.

[campbell34]

"not everyone is wrong, and the Bible is always right."

This must be coming from the fundamentalist American mid-West, if you meant what you wrote literally?

The Bible is a fascinating collection of many books, also full of scores of contradictions (hence not 'always right' on that count), but Biblical scholars basically all accept that much of it is myth, allegory, and facts merged with fiction added for political reasons.
When you talk about the myths of the Bible, are you talking about the 300 prophecies of the Old Testament that Jesus fulfilled in the New Testament. Are you talking about such men as Dr. John Cumming in 1864, or James Grant in 1866, who stated that based on Bible prophecies Christ will not return to earth until the Jews first return to Israel, and also control Jerusalem. Are you talking about the prophecies in the Bible that states that Jerusalem's East Gate will be sealed, and no one will be able to open it until Christ returns. The East Gate remains sealed to this very day, even though twice the Moslems tried to break through the Gate, and destroy the prophecy. They failed. Just like the Bible said they would. Yes, I am a Fundamentalist Christian, and the God you don't know I have heard His audible voice. I have had encounters with demons from hell, I have seen the Anti Christ to come. I have walked the approches of heaven. Jesus is not dead. He is alive.

[Archemetis]

And what part of this statement comes into contact with any kind of logic? Is it the same kind of logic that the Christians have twisted into defending their bible stories and fairy tales with nonsensical rhetoric, in hopes of surpressing scientific logic which is gradually taking away the so-called truth and credibility from their life's devotion? Do you actually believe that an "insect-alien" encountered in Terence McKenna's DMT-induced fantasies had indeed told the truth about some obscure formula for the apocalypse in 2012, or are you simply in submission to ignorance? You don't have to be afraid to admit that you are unenlightened. It is already quite obvious that most of the world is unenlightened.
I am not here to criticize you, or anyone else. I speak compassionately, not scornfully. But what I am wondering is why you and others like you desire subconciously to believe in these childish apocalyptic tales? Do you feel the need to anticipate the coming of the end? Are you so afraid of death that you are trying to fool yourself otherwise? Or are you afraid of facing death alone?
It is in the same kind of question that one asks a person of faith why they believe. To earn and honest answer to a question like this is often difficult to find when you are proposing it to someone who cannot even be honest to themselves. Thus, I do not expect an honest answer. But in this, comes the stride for my objective - to inspire honesty.

Now I feel as if I must wash my hands.???what are you talking about??? i think you highly misinterpreted what iv said. the mayans predicted an astronomical event...using their knowledge of astronomy....so if that knowledge of how long it takes certin planets to orbit ect ect was off by seconds they would have been off. im not talking about some apocalypse of the end of the world...im talking about a rare astronomical event that happens once every 25 some odd thousand years. while the mayans were excellent astronomers they certinally could have miscalculated if only a fraction of a second, which would have thrown the date way off...thats all im saying.


"But what I am wondering is why you and others like you desire subconciously to believe in these childish apocalyptic tales?"
-i dont believe we're talking about an apocalyse...just a great change in our planetary density due to astronomical changes. this is nothing new, it happend 25 thousand years ago and 25 thousand years before that. its an astronomical cycle. only this is the first time in recorded history that we are going to expirience this event.

"Do you feel the need to anticipate the coming of the end?"
-the end of this age perhaps...but again, im not talking about some doomsday prophesies


"Are you so afraid of death that you are trying to fool yourself otherwise? Or are you afraid of facing death alone?"

-i welcome death when the time comes...my soul is ready...it is the final trip so to say, and im eager to take that plunge. in my attempts to understand this reality i have become the ultimate observer of my reality...but still there is no way to answer certin questions...questions about the nature of reality after death, and so i look forward that time

dont jump to conclutions or assume anything about what iv posted.

[Akasha7]

Dear Campbell34. I believe in God but scholastic (rational) study of the Bible by Christian and Jewish scholars demonstrate that it isn't all true, and wasn't all intended to be true. I mean, the world did not begin a few thousand years ago. I believe in Jesus but the four gospels all contradict if you examine them, even if on fairly minor points. And the first five books of the Bible are all believed by fundamentalists to have been written by Moses! - even though there are two different Creation accounts in Genesis, much of the Old Testament is actually the Kabbalah in numerological code, and the book in which the death of Moses is recorded is believed to have been written by him LOL.

I respect we must believe what we like, but I'd better end the dialogue here as in fact it is off-thread...

Love and Peace.

Archemetis,

""just a great change in our planetary density"" (in 2012). That's not scientifically possible, you know? An alignment won't do that.

[Zarathustra]

It does not matter whether you are a Christian, an astrologer or a simply a delusional idiot, because all of these things are constituents of superstition. And when endorse a theory that is not based on fact, nor truth, nor logic, you are thus considered superstitious. Nor does it matter whether 2012 will be the day of the apocalypse, the day when human beings suddenly "shift conciousness", or simply the day when Terence McKenna will no longer have his cult following, you are still believing in a fairy tale.
This is what troubles me - the fact that because the mayans were able to decipher some very simple astronomical cycles, people believe in the "revelations" of some old drug-addled hermit proposing that they had also predicted an illogical, far fetched event that is in fact indeterminable through actual logic. This "novelty theory" has absolutely no mathematical or scientific structure, and as usual it is simply a needlessly complicated jumble of mathematical rhetoric and equations created by some idiot that wants the world to believe this nonsense. When most people admit that they do not understand any of this superstitious trash, (yet ironically they still endorse it) they are in fact telling the truth - as it was not meant to be understood. "A change in planetary density" - what a load of shit.
The reason I compared you to a Christian is because you use the same tactics in order to conveniently prevent your theories from being proven wrong. When this long awaited day in 2012 comes and passes as would any other, you will simply remain in denial by changing the date, rather than making the enlightened decision: to stop believing in ghosts, faeries, and doomsdays.

[Archemetis]

It does not matter whether you are a Christian, an astrologer or a simply a delusional idiot, because all of these things are constituents of superstition. And when endorse a theory that is not based on fact, nor truth, nor logic, you are thus considered superstitious. Nor does it matter whether 2012 will be the day of the apocalypse, the day when human beings suddenly "shift conciousness", or simply the day when Terence McKenna will no longer have his cult following, you are still believing in a fairy tale.
This is what troubles me - the fact that because the mayans were able to decipher some very simple astronomical cycles, people believe in the "revelations" of some old drug-addled hermit proposing that they had also predicted an illogical, far fetched event that is in fact indeterminable through actual logic. This "novelty theory" has absolutely no mathematical or scientific structure, and as usual it is simply a needlessly complicated jumble of mathematical rhetoric and equations created by some idiot that wants the world to believe this nonsense. When most people admit that they do not understand any of this superstitious trash, (yet ironically they still endorse it) they are in fact telling the truth - as it was not meant to be understood. "A change in planetary density" - what a load of shit.
The reason I compared you to a Christian is because you use the same tactics in order to conveniently prevent your theories from being proven wrong. When this long awaited day in 2012 comes and passes as would any other, you will simply remain in denial by changing the date, rather than making the enlightened decision: to stop believing in ghosts, faeries, and doomsdays.again im not talking about the apocalypse...im not talking about mckennas novelty wave...nor any revelation of some old drug addled hermit as you put it.
all iv been saying is certin astronomical changes are going to take place and that is fact....your a fool to deny that astronomy affects this planet...take the moon for example...it controls the tide and affects womens menstrel cycle...its also a proven fact that jails and psych hospitals have more intakes on full moons than any other day.

what to expect in 2012..."In astronomic terms, the Sun conjuncts the intersection of the Milky Way and the plane of the ecliptic. The Sun has not conjoined the Milky Way and the plane of the ecliptic since some 25,800 years ago"

all iv said is this event is going to happen....iv said nothing as to what that implies other than a change in density of our physical plane...you assumed and filled in the gaps, and that was your mistake.


The reason I compared you to a Christian is because you use the same tactics in order to conveniently prevent your theories from being proven wrong.what tactics would those be? and could you point them out for me?

When this long awaited day in 2012 comes and passes as would any other, you will simply remain in denial by changing the date, rather than making the enlightened decision:no...because i believe this long awaited day in 2012 will come and pass much like any other would. i never said anywhere that the heavens were going to open up or the earth would explode or anything else you assumed i meant. what iv been saying in previous posts is, i believe the affects this event will have on this earth is already taking place and will continue to.


to stop believing in ghosts, faeries, and doomsdays.i never said anything about ghosts faeries or doomsdays, so your throwing that in to prove your point is bad form

[Archemetis]

""just a great change in our planetary density"" (in 2012). That's not scientifically possible, you know? An alignment won't do that.perhaps i should have worded that differently...im not talking about our physical planet earth....but our physical plane. if that makes any sence. another way to say it i guess would be, that teh vibrations that make up this plane will vibrate at a higher frequency.
i believe that there are various planes of existence sharing the same "space" i like the tv analogy. our tv only picks up one channel at a time...but in the air all around us various channels and frequencies exist sharing the same "space". i believe it is possible to access higher planes of existence (or "channels if you will) by raising our own vibrations through various methods...the most reliable would probably be meditation.

i believe our physical plane to be the most dense and above would be the astral, the etheral and so on....what seperates these planes is nothing more than vibration density.

[TrippinBTM]

Interesting thing is, 2012 is right around the time many people are saying the Oil Crash will occur (which will have global ramifications, ie war, famine, rioting, etc). Maybe the survivors will see a new way of living...or, really, the oldest human way of living, hunting and gathering and living with the world, not against it.

[Akasha7]

OK I hear and understand you now, Archemetis. Yes, but I see 2012 as being no particularly significant year, sorry.

I think all should cool down.

Not that people will as that silly date gets nearer, LOL.

So over the next several years people can go on whatever trips to ascension, or into UFOs, or to doomsday that they please to prepare for. I won't be with any of them.

[campbell34]

Dear Campbell34. I believe in God but scholastic (rational) study of the Bible by Christian and Jewish scholars demonstrate that it isn't all true, and wasn't all intended to be true. I mean, the world did not begin a few thousand years ago. I believe in Jesus but the four gospels all contradict if you examine them, even if on fairly minor points. And the first five books of the Bible are all believed by fundamentalists to have been written by Moses! - even though there are two different Creation accounts in Genesis, much of the Old Testament is actually the Kabbalah in numerological code, and the book in which the death of Moses is recorded is believed to have been written by him LOL.

I respect we must believe what we like, but I'd better end the dialogue here as in fact it is off-thread...

Love and Peace.



Archemetis,

""just a great change in our planetary density"" (in 2012). That's not scientifically possible, you know? An alignment won't do that.
I have examine them, and you have to remember that they are written from different perspectives. Yet this does not mean they counterdict themselves.
Could you give me a few examples of what you consider a contradiction. Don't worry about 2012, the third day of God will still be 20 years away.

[Zarathustra]

"you assumed and filled in the gaps, and that was your mistake."


There are only so many "gaps to fill" when one has a signature about "evolving from beams of light", and makes posts about the coming of the year 2012 in the Metaphysics and Mysticism forum. If deception is your weapon, then I have fallen victim to it. I should have known better than to reach for the sword when you held concealed daggers. But hopefully the next time we speak shall neither of us be armed.

[campbell34]

It does not matter whether you are a Christian, an astrologer or a simply a delusional idiot, because all of these things are constituents of superstition. And when endorse a theory that is not based on fact, nor truth, nor logic, you are thus considered superstitious. Nor does it matter whether 2012 will be the day of the apocalypse, the day when human beings suddenly "shift conciousness", or simply the day when Terence McKenna will no longer have his cult following, you are still believing in a fairy tale.
This is what troubles me - the fact that because the mayans were able to decipher some very simple astronomical cycles, people believe in the "revelations" of some old drug-addled hermit proposing that they had also predicted an illogical, far fetched event that is in fact indeterminable through actual logic. This "novelty theory" has absolutely no mathematical or scientific structure, and as usual it is simply a needlessly complicated jumble of mathematical rhetoric and equations created by some idiot that wants the world to believe this nonsense. When most people admit that they do not understand any of this superstitious trash, (yet ironically they still endorse it) they are in fact telling the truth - as it was not meant to be understood. "A change in planetary density" - what a load of shit.
The reason I compared you to a Christian is because you use the same tactics in order to conveniently prevent your theories from being proven wrong. When this long awaited day in 2012 comes and passes as would any other, you will simply remain in denial by changing the date, rather than making the enlightened decision: to stop believing in ghosts, faeries, and doomsdays.
Well there are still many scientist that believe in Evolution, yet it is a theory that lacks the facts. Would you consider them to believe in the theory because of superstition? Christians believe in the Bible because of facts. In 1864 a Christian man named DR. John Cumming made a prediction about the Jews based on Bible prophecy and stated. "How come it is to pass that as a nation they have been dispersed over every land, yet insulated, seperated, and alone amid the nations? The predictions of their restoration are in words as definite only not yet fulfilled. As a nation the were cut off and dispersed, and it is as a nation that they shall be gathered and restored. But one closeing act in this great dramatic history of an extraordinary people is yet wanting to complete the whole. Their restoration is predicted and demanded. Who will stretch out his hand to move the scene and call forth the actors." In 1866 another man by the name of James Grant who was an English Bible scholar stated." The personal coming of Christ, to establish His millennial reign on earth, will not take place until the Jews are restored to their own land, and the enemies of Christ and the Jews have commenced the siege of Jerusalem...now the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the mustering and marshalling of these mighty armies, with a view to capturing Jerusalem, must require a considerable time yet." The was written eighty-two years before Israel was made a nation. Christ return is based on facts which Christians understand, and years before the world even had a clue that the Jews would return. Yet the facts of the Bible are ignored by most. Jesus Christ fulfilled over three hundred Old Testament prophecies yet most ignore them. The future of earth is recorded in the prophecies in detail yet the world calls us illogical. The Old Testament states that Jerusalems East Gate would be sealed up. It states that know one will be allowed to enter through that gate and all attempts would fail. According to the scriptures the only one who can enter the East Gate is Jesus Christ. If you go to Jerusalem today you will find the East gate sealed just like the Bible said it would be. Twice the Moslems tried to break through it, to break the prophecy, and failed on both attempts, just like the Bible said they would. And on both attempts on the very day they tried to break through the Gate, the Moslems lost control of Jerusalem. First in 1917 to the British, and second 1967 to the Jews. The prophecies are not far fetched, they are facts. That is why D.R. Cummings and John Grant could accurately predict the future, and that is why the East Gate in Jerusalem is still sealed today.

[Akasha7]

Hi Campbell34,

Oh boy, this is all off-topic and about Bible interpretation. If you don't know that the gospels contradict each other on many minor points (though I respect them) I had better leave that one for you to suss. I'm still interested in how Moses wrote a book which recounts his own death in the OT? As fundamentalists believe?

So you have your own dates, huh? The third day of God from 2032? The "days" of Genesis are symbolic, and refer to archetypal practices and periods going on all the time. The Old Testament is steeped in Kabbalah, and the "seven days" are seven steps in the process of 'creation' we all go through in order to make anything occur.

God Bless.

[Zarathustra]

I admit there is reason to "believe" in the once-lived idea man called "God", as there is reason in all things human. There is also reason as to why man turns his head and refuses to believe that God is dead.
The death of God was inevitable - for he had long since been weak and staggering. Yet his holiest and most trusted of clergymen had not prepared for him a proper funeral - instead they denyingly kept it secret! For they knew that man was not one to readily accept death. But why was man unable to realize this without the aid of a preacher's words? Why did man not know of the passing of God? Were his eyes unable to see God's name inscribed on the tombstone? Were his ears too inept to hear of the grave-diggers digging away in the ground for God's coffin to be placed? Was his nose unwilling to smell the stench of God's decomposition? Had this guise not been conceived by the words of one man, but rather by all man! Man simply could not resist the despicable urge to give in to his opium, for it was too painful to withdraw! These are the true manifestations of God - impotence and suffering.
God harbors himself in these men - in the "true believers" - the men that are too weak, too inept, too unwilling to control their thoughts and their actions by the ways of their own free will. And as each day passes by, while these men stoop on bended knee and pray to their fallen lord, they degenerate - by the will of God himself.

[weird load]

big man said to man, man this world is all fucked up
i gave you this here planet and you tore the damn thing up
well man yelled up to big man, man you're the one to blame
you aint been here for two thousand years so we came and made our claim
it's called finders keepers so please be on your way
and big man stroked his beard not knowing what to say

big man said to man, you're going straight to hell
where bad man keeps a lick of fire with his stinky shitty smell
well man yelled up to big man, man you just don't get my gist
if we dont have you then we dont have him, bad man don't exist
you cancel each other out so please be on your way
and big man stroked his beard not knowing what to say

big man said to man, i don't think i can win
i promise i'll do better i'll bring some changes in
well man yelled up to big man, man while you turned your back
we replaced you with a better man, a man we called big mac
and the golden arches are kepping us all safe
and big man looked down on us and said what a waste.

there u go, a few lyrics from a band i know. www.toupe.co.uk
gives u somethin to ponder on. personally i think in 2012 we'll all become jedi, but whatever, lol.:p

[mart_182]

that was my idea you ugly poo-faced git!

[weird load]

how rude, well i never. donkey flange knucklehead mcspazmatron! pow!

[mart_182]

B*z*n*sh!!!