Remember Rome?

[Devocet]

Rome was like America is today, they have so much in common its scary.
so how long till we fall? what do you guys think?

[Soulless||Chaos]

I don't know, but Rome lasted quite a while... I wonder if the U.S. will split also? (again)

[Ash_Freakstreet]

however, America doesn't have to deal with "barbarian" tribes outside its borders.

[SingflowerCat]

however, America doesn't have to deal with "barbarian" tribes outside its borders.
America deals with "barbarian tribes" in and outside its borders... Look around these tribes have just changed with the times and don't look like textbook "barbarians"... I've underlined come barbaric things that go on:

terrorist attacks here which gave Bush support to start a war which didn't directly have anything to do with the attacks but instead will help secure our country's uncontrolled materialistic greed with interests in oil and provide millions to companies like Halliburton (I don't know if I spelled that right). This very war is forcing our men to kill and be killed in the name of peace... while at home we have other problems that are being ignored: our VIOLENT culture, crime on the rise across the board, forgotten children, insufficient affordable healthcare, unemployment, consumption at ridiculous levels... yadda yadda, I'm sure I've made my point...

If things don't change, not only is America in trouble but the world as we know it is ...

And please don't get me wrong this is not an anti american post I love this beautiful land but some things have got to change.

[Kandahar]

Rome was like America is today, they have so much in common its scary.
so how long till we fall? what do you guys think?
Well, if we're gonna "fall," so to speak, it will most likely happen during the next twenty years, when nuclear and nano-weapons are at their most prolific moments. If we can survive that, I think our species will finally begin to settle down and mature a little bit. I see America (and the rest of the world) simply evolving into something else, rather than "falling." We probably won't consider ourselves "Americans" in 100 years, but that isn't necessarily because of some historical calamity.

[Peace-Phoenix]

This is a poem I wrote a couple of months ago, on exactly that idea...



Empyre

Rome burns around him,

A mis-spent youth bred

Mal-formed egotism.

Play those strings, play ever on,

The sweetest melodies cannot shroud

An empire crumbling.

Nero plays his golden fiddle.

And Rome burns.



Tyrant, usurper, simpleton,

What madness is this?

Raze those cities with your hate.

But as ye sow, so shall ye reap!

The softest lies scarcely hide your intent,

But no empire lasts for all time.

Take your nine-iron, look away,

Modern-day Neros play their game.

And America burns!

[Soulless||Chaos]

however, America doesn't have to deal with "barbarian" tribes outside its borders.
What, did you forget about Canadia (yeah I know thats not how its spelled... :rolleyes: ) or something?? :rolleyes: :p

[DoktorAtomik]

Rome was like America is today, they have so much in common its scary.
Roman's weren't fat ;)

[Ash_Freakstreet]

Roman's weren't fat ;)
True... but they had Drunken Orgies all the time.

[DoktorAtomik]

True... but they had Drunken Orgies all the time.Yeah, but if the bible bashers have their way, there'll be no orgies or drinking in the US of A!!! ;)

[Babou]

Long live the Roman tradition.

[brokenwingz425]

however, America doesn't have to deal with "barbarian" tribes outside its borders.
try replacing the word barbarian with terrorist

there ya go

[Ash_Freakstreet]

and, Attila=Osama?

[Ash_Freakstreet]

Yeah, but if the bible bashers have their way, there'll be no orgies or drinking in the US of A!!! ;)I don't know if that would be entirely bad.

[charredacacia]

empires rise and fall. what seems like a catastrophe today, may be forgotten forever and be buried the sands of time

[DoktorAtomik]

I don't know if that would be entirely bad.Depends if you like drinking or orgies I guess.

[Soulless||Chaos]

I don't know if that would be entirely bad.
What do you have against drinking and orgies? :rolleyes:

[DoktorAtomik]

What do you have against drinking and orgies? :rolleyes:I'm guessing he's never invited to them ;) Sorry, that was mean. Just couldn't resist :&

[Peace-Phoenix]

empires rise and fall. what seems like a catastrophe today, may be forgotten forever and be buried the sands of time
I don't think it would be a catastrophe if the American Empire fell. It's way too powerful. No one nation state should weild that much power....

[Ash_Freakstreet]

Vietnam can be considered stage one, an equivalent of the Germans pushing the Romans back across the Rhine, preventing an absolute hegemony, and laying the foundation for other "barbarian" victories against Rome.

The next stage, if it were to occur, will be only as much of a historic event as the "fall" of the Soviet Union... America will still exist as a nation but will weild as much power as it did before the great wars


However I do remain optimistic, and believe that the fall can be averted. All America needs is a better leader and not some emperor will a lot of hubris.

[cobcottage]

I doubt the planet will be able to sustain the human population if things keep going the way they are.

I like the idea of simply "walking away" from this society. It can be done from within our borders, you don't have to buy into it...you really don't.

[TrippinBTM]

However I do remain optimistic, and believe that the fall can be averted. All America needs is a better leader and not some emperor will a lot of hubris.
It comes down to far more than our leader. It's the whole way people think. America may not fall, but it is changing. It's like we're moving toward a fascist state, with big business in control. The pharmecutical industry already controlls the FDA and is damn close to having a monopoly on health care in this country. According to them, the only way to prevent or cure disease is with drugs and or surgery. Natural, herbal, holistic cures? Don't exist, and anyone who says they do is censored or jailed for practicing medicine without a liscence...and guess who gives out the licences? That's just one (major) example. Big business is taking over. And it's not just the elites who are corrupt. People buy into this idea of monetary gain so much that they forget about everything else. I hate to sound like an evangelical (cuz I'm not a Christian), but it's too materialistic, and the fact that there's no spirituality (morals included) spells certain doom for our country...at least that's how I see it.

There are definite similarities to Rome and it's fall, I've thought about it myself, many times. But there are also great similarities to Germany in the interwar period. Putting those two together, along with the growing stress of our unsustainable lifestyles on the planet, and we're heading for major calamity. I think we are going to be living through some very "interesting" times...

[Kandahar]

According to them, the only way to prevent or cure disease is with drugs and or surgery. Natural, herbal, holistic cures? Don't exist, and anyone who says they do is censored or jailed for practicing medicine without a liscence"Natural, herbal, holistic cures" is a PC way of calling them what they really are - quack medicine. Most of those "cures" have NO medicinal merit whatsoever, and the few that do quickly become more effective pharmaceutical drugs. It's not a conspiracy; while I may not agree with all of the FDA's decisions, they're based in science.

[JesusDiedForU]

Rome was like America is today, they have so much in common its scary.
so how long till we fall?
WoW.... that is so true.... Babylon is literally America in the Bible.... most people thought that Rome was the Babylon right after John had written Revelation and today many people still think Rome is babylon but it is not.... the descriptions do not fit Rome... only America and she will fall

Fallen, Fallen! Babylon the Great! Revelation 18:2


http://r-campbell34.tripod.com/babylon

[Sera Michele]

WoW.... that is so true.... Babylon is literally America in the Bible.... most people thought that Rome was the Babylon right after John had written Revelation and today many people still think Rome is babylon but it is not.... the descriptions do not fit Rome... only America and she will fall

Fallen, Fallen! Babylon the Great! Revelation 18:2


http://r-campbell34.tripod.com/babylon
Actually the descriptions in the bible pretty accurately fit rome. But that is beside the point.

I thnk that every super-power falls in time. History tells us that. I think America will fall (as a super-power) a lot more quickly because the world is a much more competitive place than it was thousands of years ago. We are so stuck up on morals and petty issues that we are falling behing economically, technologically, and scientifically. Plus we grew to be a super-power so fast that I expect our decline would be pretty fast as well.

[JesusDiedForU]

Actually the descriptions in the bible pretty accurately fit rome. But that is beside the point.
Sera michele please you do not know the descriptions of the Bible

[TrippinBTM]

"Natural, herbal, holistic cures" is a PC way of calling them what they really are - quack medicine. Most of those "cures" have NO medicinal merit whatsoever, and the few that do quickly become more effective pharmaceutical drugs. It's not a conspiracy; while I may not agree with all of the FDA's decisions, they're based in science.
No, they're based in the fact that the FDA is basically staffed with people from Big Pharm. A lot of those drugs get passed through only because the people pushing them have the money in the first place to get them tested. Only drugs that are going to make a ton of money are worth pushing through that expensive system, but herbal remedies are too cheap to make it worth it; you'd never even break even by selling an approved herb. The system here is totally bullshit.

And herbal remedies don't work? Humans have used them for tens of thousands of years (~99.5% of our existence) and got by alright. Plus, there is the placebo effect, which proves that the mind is a big player in healing. You can take a sugar pill and be cured if you believe it. Modern science totally discredits that idea. Know why? There's no profit in it.

[BlackGuardXIII]

No, they're based in the fact that the FDA is basically staffed with people from Big Pharm. A lot of those drugs get passed through only because the people pushing them have the money in the first place to get them tested. Only drugs that are going to make a ton of money are worth pushing through that expensive system, but herbal remedies are too cheap to make it worth it; you'd never even break even by selling an approved herb. The system here is totally bullshit.

And herbal remedies don't work? Humans have used them for tens of thousands of years (~99.5% of our existence) and got by alright. Plus, there is the placebo effect, which proves that the mind is a big player in healing. You can take a sugar pill and be cured if you believe it. Modern science totally discredits that idea. Know why? There's no profit in it.
You are so right BTM.
If it can't be patented, they will do their best to discredit it.
Ozone treatment is a perfect example....

[Kandahar]

No, they're based in the fact that the FDA is basically staffed with people from Big Pharm. A lot of those drugs get passed through only because the people pushing them have the money in the first place to get them tested. Only drugs that are going to make a ton of money are worth pushing through that expensive system, but herbal remedies are too cheap to make it worth it; you'd never even break even by selling an approved herb. The system here is totally bullshit.
I agree that it's not fair that less popular drugs never even see the marketplace. Personally I wouldn't mind if the FDA was disbanded entirely, and a handful of basic health laws replaced it. What I take issue with is the idea that the FDA makes decisions that are not based in science. Of all the government agencies, I give the FDA a lot of credit for standing up to the big pharmaceutical companies when their drugs need more research.

And there's a reason that most herbs wouldn't make any money: because they don't work. But hey, I'm all for letting them hit the marketplace and die a quick death from competition with REAL drugs. I agree that the FDA doesn't need to regulate them.

And herbal remedies don't work? Humans have used them for tens of thousands of years (~99.5% of our existence) and got by alright.
If you consider living to age 30 - usually with a lot of chronic illnesses - to be "getting by alright," then please stay away from my medicine. :)

Plus, there is the placebo effect, which proves that the mind is a big player in healing. You can take a sugar pill and be cured if you believe it. Modern science totally discredits that idea. Know why? There's no profit in it.
Actually, every time a drug goes up for FDA approval, the company is REQUIRED by law to test how it compares to a placebo. I don't know where you get the notion that big, bad, corporate-owned "modern science totally discredits the idea." Quite the opposite, actually.

[BlackGuardXIII]

I agree that it's not fair that less popular drugs never even see the marketplace. Personally I wouldn't mind if the FDA was disbanded entirely, and a handful of basic health laws replaced it. What I take issue with is the idea that the FDA makes decisions that are not based in science. Of all the government agencies, I give the FDA a lot of credit for standing up to the big pharmaceutical companies when their drugs need more research.

And there's a reason that most herbs wouldn't make any money: because they don't work. But hey, I'm all for letting them hit the marketplace and die a quick death from competition with REAL drugs. I agree that the FDA doesn't need to regulate them.


If you consider living to age 30 - usually with a lot of chronic illnesses - to be "getting by alright," then please stay away from my medicine. :)


Actually, every time a drug goes up for FDA approval, the company is REQUIRED by law to test how it compares to a placebo. I don't know where you get the notion that big, bad, corporate-owned "modern science totally discredits the idea." Quite the opposite, actually.
Well you have far more faith in the pharmaceutical giants than I.
Their lobbyists are continually working the political front in order to gain favour for their 'medicines', and to have potentially successful non-patented options either banned, stalled or just defamed.
This happened with ozone therapy, which I know for an absolute certainty from numerous face to face testimonials, is a very powerful curative substance.
It was banned in the early part of the 20th century after extensive lobbying by the burgeoning pharma industry.
Other nations use it extensively, such as Germany and Cuba.
And it is extremely easy to administer safely, with not one recorded death that I know of from its use, which is something the drug therapies cannot say, about any drug, I believe.

[Sera Michele]

Sera michele please you do not know the descriptions of the BibleConsidering I went to a baptist school for 12 years, I know very well the descriptions from the bible. It's really funny how christians think that if you don't agree with them you don't know anything about the bible. I believe what I believe BECAUSE I have studied the Bible very intensely, not the other way around.

Had I just blindly believed everything I was told I would likely still be a christian.

In fact, you are in Michigan, right? You may know of the school I attended...Faith Baptist School in Davision, MI

They got a great soccer team. Well they used to, I haven't kept up with them in years.

[Epiphany]

As far as Rome, during the end, the Holy Roman Empire will be revived, as they play both a religious and political part, however, we shall all suffer the end times. The entire world, not just Rome.

[Kandahar]

As far as Rome, during the end, the Holy Roman Empire will be revived, as they play both a religious and political part, however, we shall all suffer the end times. The entire world, not just Rome.Uhh
Where do you come up with this stuff? There's nothing about the Holy Roman Empire in the Bible, as it didn't even exist at the time of the New Testament. Besides, why would your god care which of our little governments was in power?

Or has God personally told you all of this?

[campbell34]

Well, if we're gonna "fall," so to speak, it will most likely happen during the next twenty years, when nuclear and nano-weapons are at their most prolific moments. If we can survive that, I think our species will finally begin to settle down and mature a little bit. I see America (and the rest of the world) simply evolving into something else, rather than "falling." We probably won't consider ourselves "Americans" in 100 years, but that isn't necessarily because of some historical calamity.According to the bible the generation that would see the Jews retake Israel and retake Jerusalem will see the end of time as we know it. Christ will return to this world. Much trouble ahead, especially the next 30 years. America is targeted for destruction. The bible states that all are cities will burn and our nation will come to her end in one hours time.

[campbell34]

Considering I went to a baptist school for 12 years, I know very well the descriptions from the bible. It's really funny how christians think that if you don't agree with them you don't know anything about the bible. I believe what I believe BECAUSE I have studied the Bible very intensely, not the other way around.

Had I just blindly believed everything I was told I would likely still be a christian.

In fact, you are in Michigan, right? You may know of the school I attended...Faith Baptist School in Davision, MI

They got a great soccer team. Well they used to, I haven't kept up with them in years.Well I used to go to a Baptist church myself, I was so happy when I left that place. Yet the more I read the bible the more I realized how true it is. The Jews are not back in Israel by accident Sera, big things coming on the horizon. America is going to be targeted by the nations that hate us. It's all part of God's bigger plan.

[Epiphany]

Well I used to go to a Baptist church myself
:eek:

I have heard some not so great things from former Baptists in my church

[JesusDiedForU]

Considering I went to a baptist school for 12 years, I know very well the descriptions from the bible. It's really funny how christians think that if you don't agree with them you don't know anything about the bible. I believe what I believe BECAUSE I have studied the Bible very intensely, not the other way around.

Had I just blindly believed everything I was told I would likely still be a christian.

In fact, you are in Michigan, right? You may know of the school I attended...Faith Baptist School in Davision, MI

They got a great soccer team. Well they used to, I haven't kept up with them in years.
What I meant to say is that you do not know the descriptions of Babylon... my bad.

What I am trying to say about Babylon is that most church people and even most theologians don't even know the Babylon prophecies... or consider what they are... and if they do... most will reject it the true meaning

An email I got from the Author of America, The Babylon explains it well:

"In no way, will the ruling elite leadership of the church in America admit or agree that America is Mystery Babylon. Why? Pride, arrogance, blindness and for some - the fact that they are not Christians but
Satanists masquerading as Christian believers and they are leaders in the Evangelical, fundamentalist community... all denominations are swept up in it."

[Epiphany]

What I am trying to say about Babylon is that most church people and even most theologians don't even know the Babylon prophecies... or consider what they are... and if they do... most will reject it the true meaning

Most churches don't even have a clue. Some churches hardly even speak about it. Pretty sad.

[Kandahar]

According to the bible the generation that would see the Jews retake Israel and retake Jerusalem will see the end of time as we know it. Aren't there any people here interested in the future who aren't Jesus Freaks? Ugh.

Moshe Dayan has been dead for 20 years. David Ben-Gurion has been dead for 30 years. Albert Einstein has been dead for nearly 50 years. Face it, the generation that retook Israel is long since dead. The "end of time" didn't happen.

Now I know you'll come up with some sort of rationalization as to why this is, but you know as well as I do that your book was simply WRONG. Like every other the-end-is-nigh cult in history, you'll simply continue pushing back the date of the apocalypse every time you are proven wrong.

[Epiphany]

Aren't there any people here interested in the future who aren't Jesus Freaks? Ugh.

Moshe Dayan has been dead for 20 years. David Ben-Gurion has been dead for 30 years. Albert Einstein has been dead for nearly 50 years. Face it, the generation that retook Israel is long since dead. The "end of time" didn't happen.

Now I know you'll come up with some sort of rationalization as to why this is, but you know as well as I do that your book was simply WRONG. Like every other the-end-is-nigh cult in history, you'll simply continue pushing back the date of the apocalypse every time you are proven wrong.

Well, the Mayans were wrong about the date being 2012

[Kandahar]

Well, the Mayans were wrong about the date being 2012What does that have to do with anything?

[SingflowerCat]

"In no way, will the ruling elite leadership of the church in America admit or agree that America is Mystery Babylon. Why? Pride, arrogance, blindness and for some - the fact that they are not Christians but
Satanists masquerading as Christian believers and they are leaders in the Evangelical, fundamentalist community... all denominations are swept up in it."
Give me a fucking break.

Christianity has a lot of corruption in it and I generally find that often Christians are the most rude, intolerant, holier-than-thou hypocrits, but Satanists? Pahhaha.

You really think that most leaders in the Evangelical fundamentalists community are having secret "satan" ceremonies behind some mysterious closed doors? Nope, they're just stupid, judgementa, rigid, blind people, not satan worshippers.

[themnax]

yes i remember rome
the christers took over and it went to hell in a handbasket
not that there was anything all that wonderful about it
to begin with

i'd rather remember minoen crete and what could have
would have should have been but for the unathorised medling
of renigade time travelers

or mohenjo daro, anybody else remember that place?

not that i was here then
but i read the reports

its all about people refusing to connect the dots
and then inventing nontangable excuses for deceiving themselves
about refusing to.

not that the nontangable can't exist or doesn't
but no matter how much it may love us and wish us well
and i feel as strongly as anyone that there is something
that does, it is still the incentives collectively creatied
by the individual priorities we DON'T think about,
the ones beliefs try to tell we don't need to worry about,
that make the everyday life we individualy experience what
it is.

=^^=
.../\...

[JesusDiedForU]

Aren't there any people here interested in the future who aren't Jesus Freaks? Ugh.

Moshe Dayan has been dead for 20 years. David Ben-Gurion has been dead for 30 years. Albert Einstein has been dead for nearly 50 years. Face it, the generation that retook Israel is long since dead. The "end of time" didn't happen.

Now I know you'll come up with some sort of rationalization as to why this is, but you know as well as I do that your book was simply WRONG. Like every other the-end-is-nigh cult in history, you'll simply continue pushing back the date of the apocalypse every time you are proven wrong.
Well the people that were wrong did not look at these prophecies...
Christ's parable of the fig tree is the most revealing Scripture concerning the time of Christ's return. It actually pinpoints the generation of people living on earth just before Christ appears. In the Bible, the fig tree is a historic symbol of the nation of Israel. The parable speaks of the fig tree putting forth leaves. Many theologians believe this is a clear reference to the rebirth of Israel. If that is true, then we are the generation that will witness the physical return of Jesus Christ. Since Israel declared itself a nation in 1948. What the parable is telling us is the following: The generation born in the year 1948 would not pass away. In other words, when Jesus Christ returns some people will still be alive on the planet who were born in the year 1948.

With only a few realizing it, the world will soon be entering the third day of God. In the Old Testament in the book of Hosea, there is a key verse often overlooked. It states, "After two days He will revive us: in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight" (Hosea 6:2). Before Christ rescues His people from the planet, the Bible says He will resurrect the bodies of His servants that died in the past. "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:16,17). After Christ died, He was resurrected on the third day. According to Hosea 6:2, God will call the dead in Christ from out of their graves on the third day. Christ then will rescue His people that are alive on earth. Now, here is where things start to get interesting. The Bible gives us two time references speaking of this event. These two references are found in the Old and the New Testaments and are totally independent of each other. Yet, both of these references appear to converge at the same time in the future. However, God's two days are not 24-hour days. God's days are much longer than ours as explained in II Peter 3:8, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." To illustrate, Christ was resurrected in the year 33 A.D. If the passage of 2000 years equals two days in God's time, then the end of the two days will be in the year 2033. The third day thus will start in the year 2034. Although 2034 may or may not be the exact year Christ returns, His coming must be very close. For you see, the generation that was born in the year 1948 will be 86 years old in 2034. It was Jesus who said in Matthew 24:34 that this generation would not pass away until all end-time prophecies would be fulfilled.

[Kandahar]

Well the people that were wrong did not look at these prophecies...
Christ'sparable of the fig tree is the most revealing Scripture concerning the time of Christ's return. It actually pinpoints the generation of people living on earth just before Christ appears. In the Bible, the fig tree is a historic symbol of the nation of Israel. The parable speaks of the fig tree putting forth leaves. Many theologians believe this is a clear reference to the rebirth of Israel. If that is true, then we are the generation that will witness the physical return of Jesus Christ. Since Israel declared itself a nation in 1948.How do you know that THIS is the one time Christ was referring to? Israel has "put forth leaves" many times in the past. It might be destroyed in the future and declare independence AGAIN, and maybe Christ was referring to THAT generation of people.

Besides, "putting forth leaves" doesn't necessarily mean declaring independence. Maybe it means a time of prosperity, which could be just about any time.

What the parable is telling us is the following: The generation born in the year 1948 would not pass away.
That's very likely true, but it has more to do with modern medicine than with stupid religious prophecies.

In other words, when Jesus Christ returns some people will still be alive on the planet who were born in the year 1948.
That's pretty vague, because as you correctly said, the generation born in 1948 might not die at all. By the end of this decade, medicine will be increasing the average lifespan by more than one year per year. In other words, indefinite lifespans. So maybe the generation alive in 1948 will witness your god's return, but it won't happen for another 5,000 years. This end-is-nigh talk is just silly. What makes you think that YOU know something that all the other doomsday prophets didn't?

[campbell34]

How do you know that THIS is the one time Christ was referring to? Israel has "put forth leaves" many times in the past. It might be destroyed in the future and declare independence AGAIN, and maybe Christ was referring to THAT generation of people.

Besides, "putting forth leaves" doesn't necessarily mean declaring independence. Maybe it means a time of prosperity, which could be just about any time.


That's very likely true, but it has more to do with modern medicine than with stupid religious prophecies.


That's pretty vague, because as you correctly said, the generation born in 1948 might not die at all. By the end of this decade, medicine will be increasing the average lifespan by more than one year per year. In other words, indefinite lifespans. So maybe the generation alive in 1948 will witness your god's return, but it won't happen for another 5,000 years. This end-is-nigh talk is just silly. What makes you think that YOU know something that all the other doomsday prophets didn't?The bible clearly teaches that once the Jews return to Israel they will never be driven from the land again. And the bible states that when they return they will take Juda first which is the south half of Israel first, which they did in 1948, and they will retake Jerusalem second which happened in 1967. The bible also states that when Christ returns, the Eastern Gate that leads to the temple mount will be sealed. As it turns out, the Eastern Gate has been sealed up for 400 years. The prophecy also states that the gate will remained sealed until Christ returns. The Moslems found out about the prophecy and twice tried to break the prophecy by smashing through the gate, but on both attempts they failed. In 1917 when they tried to smash down the gate and on the very day they were going to do it the British took over control of Jerusalem. Then in 1967 they were going to try again but this time and again on the very day they were to break through the gate the Jews marched into Jerusalem and the moslems had to flee. Today the gate remains sealed as the prophecy said it would, and it's opening will only occure when Jesus Christ returns. The bible also states that in the day Christ returns, nations would have the power to destroy countries and cities in one hours time.

[Kandahar]

The bible clearly teaches that once the Jews return to Israel they will never be driven from the land again. And the bible states that when they return they will take Juda first which is the south half of Israel first, which they did in 1948, and they will retake Jerusalem second which happened in 1967. The bible also states that when Christ returns, the Eastern Gate that leads to the temple mount will be sealed. As it turns out, the Eastern Gate has been sealed up for 400 years. The prophecy also states that the gate will remained sealed until Christ returns. The Moslems found out about the prophecy and twice tried to break the prophecy by smashing through the gate, but on both attempts they failed. In 1917 when they tried to smash down the gate and on the very day they were going to do it the British took over control of Jerusalem. Then in 1967 they were going to try again but this time and again on the very day they were to break through the gate the Jews marched into Jerusalem and the moslems had to flee. Today the gate remains sealed as the prophecy said it would, and it's opening will only occure when Jesus Christ returns. The bible also states that in the day Christ returns, nations would have the power to destroy countries and cities in one hours time.
So hypothetically, if something happens that the gate is broken (say, by a suicide bomber) and the world DOESN'T end that day, you will renounce your faith and admit that the Bible was incorrect?

Of course you wouldn't. You'd find some way to rationalize it, like every other doomsday prophet.

[BlackGuardXIII]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epiphany
Well, the Mayans were wrong about the date being 2012


What does
that have to do with anything?
I like the Mayan date. Sorry Epiphany. I would never state emphatically that they are right. It must be nice to know for sure.

[BlackGuardXIII]

The Piri Reis map

The Great Pyramid of Egypt

The Peruvian Monoliths

The Mexican, and Central American monoliths and pyramids.

The complex of Angkor Wat

Stonehenge

Malta's Monoliths

The Nazca Plain giant animal constellations.

The vedas

Native American Prophecies, (just as clear, if not more so than the good book), which point to now too.

The Mayan Calendar, a masterpiece of natural, earth based numbers, that is more in tune with the planets cycles and rhythms than the modern one.
These TANGIBLE, measurable, comparable, researchable, material things are worth a peek.

I peeked, and Giza is the one to really do an indepth analysis of. The harder you look, it becomes more clear, the harder to replicate it today, it is.

[JesusDiedForU]

So hypothetically, if something happens that the gate is broken (say, by a suicide bomber) and the world DOESN'T end that day, you will renounce your faith and admit that the Bible was incorrect?

Of course you wouldn't. You'd find some way to rationalize it, like every other doomsday prophet.
I would... I have been saying that right along.... If someone really wants to prove the Bible wrong (and there is a lot of people that do) all they would have to do is knock down the gate. If they gate is knocked down and Jesus does not walk through... then I will stop believing in God.... but remember the Bible has not failed any of its prophecies and i don't plan on this one being broken.... the gate still stands and so does my faith!

[themnax]

i'm affraid this matter of 'prophesie' is all too often in retrospect. that is to say, given any collection of sufficiently diverse gobbledy gook, reguardless of how self contradictory it may or may not be, anything that happens can be interpreted as having been predictied in it. while this applies to the bible, the khoran, and other sacred text, it applies equaly to even more questionable sources such as the urantia book, the truely incohierent mutterings of nostradamus, and ever the premeditatedly satyrical writings of robert antoine wilson.

so please spare us the prophesy as 'proof' pretense.

i can and do believe in a great many things, for example that there are more different kinds of things, nontangable ones included, then anyone ever has, will or can even begin to immagine, that there is more to everything then what we see when we look at it, even that yes there might very well be something greater then ourselves that loves us and wishes us well.

but i fail to see the slightest rational indication that any nontangable force or being has bugger all to do, with the harm WE are directly, observably, causing by refusing to connect the dots.

whatever gods, governments or anything else see fit to exist.

=^^=
.../\...

[JesusDiedForU]

I can tell just by your response you have never looked into the Bible prophecies....

[Burn]

I agree with themnax. Everything that has happened has been of our own accord. We have to take responsibility for our actions. However that's not to say there could have been individuals in the past who were able to see into the future, and predict what may come about. Personally I have begun to think that civilizations such as the Mayans, were able to see the 'future' because of the way they viewed time - as circular, and not a definite lateral. They saw patterns in things, and I think they got it right up to 2012. What's it mean?

I think one day we'll understand the patterns in existence, time and life - maybe not totally, but far better than we do today.

As far as Rome goes... Yes, I do see a resemblance to the United States today. We are a superpower, they were a superpower. We conquered and controlled in the name of 'liberty', Rome did so believing they were the light of the ancient world.

(Even if you do not believe the United States has not conquered and controlled in modern times, how do you think we have stretched our borders from the docks of New York City to the shores of California? There -were- people in between those two places... where are they now?)

Modern barbarians? I guess they can be compared to the terrorists - they don't like the way we in the US do things, and neither did the barbarians to Rome. So they plundered, pillaged and spread terror to the Roman people. Once Rome was too withered, corrupt, complatient and in a state of economic depression - the barbarians stormed through, and Western Rome fell.

That part of history hasn't repeated yet. I can't see terrorists storming the streets of NYC and taking over Federal Hall or something like that... Or Washington DC for that matter... No, I think if there is going to be a collapse in modern times, it will be similar but different. Perhaps an internal conflict? Who knows... It's all speculation based on the repeated history we learn about... All we can really do is watch carefully and keep an open mind to the world today.

[fulmah]

I can tell just by your response you have never looked into the Bible prophecies....
themnax's response was quite enlightened, actually. I can tell from the combination of all of your posts that it's you that haven't looked at anything other than the Bible prophesies, and even with those you're incorrect. There are many, many Bible prophesies that were correct, but there are quite a few that were glaringly wrong. You never acknowledge those when they're pointed out, though.

[BlackGuardXIII]

Rome was like America is today, they have so much in common its scary.
so how long till we fall? what do you guys think?
2944 days, or so.....

[Epiphany]

After the antichrist takes reign, we have seven years. "Times, and times and times and a half". 3 1/2 + 3 1/2 = 7 years.

[JesusDiedForU]

themnax's response was quite enlightened, actually. I can tell from the combination of all of your posts that it's you that haven't looked at anything other than the Bible prophesies, and even with those you're incorrect. There are many, many Bible prophesies that were correct, but there are quite a few that were glaringly wrong. You never acknowledge those when they're pointed out, though.

Give me one.....

[fulmah]

Give me one.....I have. You always ignore them every time they're posted. But we'll stick with just one, per your request.

2 Samuel 7: 5-17

It's wrong. The prophet Nathan prophecized that David's kingdom would never have to move and would last forever. It didn't. There were no conditions.

[JesusDiedForU]

I have. You always ignore them every time they're posted. But we'll stick with just one, per your request.

2 Samuel 7: 5-17

It's wrong. The prophet Nathan prophecized that David's kingdom would never have to move and would last forever. It didn't. There were no conditions.
The 14th verse says that God would do all those things IF the Jews followed him--which they didn't. God never gave the Jews a blank check, He game them a choice.... and they made a bad choice. Jesus is the fulfillment of the line of David which lasts forever. The kingdom was moved because of the sin of the Jews.

[TrippinBTM]

I have. You always ignore them every time they're posted. But we'll stick with just one, per your request.

2 Samuel 7: 5-17

It's wrong. The prophet Nathan prophecized that David's kingdom would never have to move and would last forever. It didn't. There were no conditions.
Give up man. You can't argue with these kinds of believers. They are not open to suggestions.

[JesusDiedForU]

Give up man. You can't argue with these kinds of believers. They are not open to suggestions.
I am open to the truth.... I refute what is false.

[fulmah]

The 14th verse says that God would do all those things IF the Jews followed him--which they didn't. God never gave the Jews a blank check, He game them a choice.... and they made a bad choice. Jesus is the fulfillment of the line of David which lasts forever. The kingdom was moved because of the sin of the Jews.
You do a great job of looking at only what you want to. The 14th verse refers to David's seed that will build the Lord's house (verse 12). Solomon. Solomon didn't fail in his obligation, yet at his death the kingdom fell. Verse 10 prophecises the Jews will never have to move again, as well.

The only way to make this prophesy work is to bend the definition of "house", "seed" and "kingdom" to refer to something different at each instance used. When it takes a 200 page document to explain 12 sentences; there's a problem. If I applied the same rules you're going to have to use to validate this prophesy to Nostradamus... then Nostradamus was 100% accurate, and a true prophet of God.

Metaphore's invalidate prophesy, that's what makes so many of the Bible's prophecies special. This one, though, was wrong.

[campbell34]

Give up man. You can't argue with these kinds of believers. They are not open to suggestions.If they are truthful we are.

[campbell34]

You do a great job of looking at only what you want to. The 14th verse refers to David's seed that will build the Lord's house (verse 12). Solomon. Solomon didn't fail in his obligation, yet at his death the kingdom fell. Verse 10 prophecises the Jews will never have to move again, as well.

The only way to make this prophesy work is to bend the definition of "house", "seed" and "kingdom" to refer to something different at each instance used. When it takes a 200 page document to explain 12 sentences; there's a problem. If I applied the same rules you're going to have to use to validate this prophesy to Nostradamus... then Nostradamus was 100% accurate, and a true prophet of God.

Metaphore's invalidate prophesy, that's what makes so many of the Bible's prophecies special. This one, though, was wrong.
Actually if you look at verse 12. It is telling David that all of this will happen after David is dead. 12. And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. This is a future prophecy, and was not to be fullfilled in David's time. Which is clearly pointed out in this verse.

[fulmah]

Actually if you look at verse 12. It is telling David that all of this will happen after David is dead. 12. And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. This is a future prophecy, and was not to be fullfilled in David's time. Which is clearly pointed out in this verse.
I know what it's saying. Look at the combined verses, it's real simple.

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

who is David's seed that builds a house for the lord? Solomon, of course. Then we go to

14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

Solomon didn't commit iniquity, but if you want to get all metaphorical and say that "he" is actually a metaphore for the line of David, then you have to deal with:

15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

so their kingdom shouldn't have been destroyed anyway, and the Jews shouldn't have had to deal with the opposite of

10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,

which of course happened immediately following Solomon's death. Both the Babylonians and the Assyrians (the very "children of wickedness") came and wiped them out.

Again, making Biblical prophesy into metaphorical prophesy is a double edged sword. Every prophet that ever lived can be proven true if you start reading into the words too much.

[JesusDiedForU]

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

who is David's seed that builds a house for the lord? Solomon, of course. Then we go to


AND YOU DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANYONE AFTER SOLOMON THAT WAS A SEED OF DAVID.... DOES JESUS RING A BELL??


Psalm 132:11 The LORD has sworn in truth to David; he will not turn from it: "I will set upon your throne the fruit of your body.




Jeremiah 23:5-6 "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.




Rom 1:3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,




- The Lord "swore" this promise to David that his seed would rule the earth.


- The fruit of David’s body was referring to his seed, which was Jesus Christ.


- David’s "branch" refers to his offspring and is the Hebrew word "tsamech".


- God’s promise in the Old Testament was always that He would one day bless all nations through one man who would be of the family of king David.


- The Bible reveals that this offspring of David would be a "great King", he would "live forever", and establish a kingdom "that would never end."


- 2 Sam 7 reveals that through David's family would come a line of kings, culminating in One "Eternal King" whose kingdom would never pass away.


-Matthew’s genealogy traces the lineage of Christ back to King David.


- The King referred to in Jer 23 is Jesus, He is to reign, and prosper, execute judgment and righteousness. Judah (the Jews) will be saved and Israel will have peace.


- "The LORD our Righteousness" in Hebrew is Yahweh (Jehovah) Tsidkenu.

http://www.bible-history.com/messianicprophecy/MESSIANICPROPHECYThe_Seed_of_David.htm

[fulmah]

AND YOU DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANYONE AFTER SOLOMON THAT WAS A SEED OF DAVID.... DOES JESUS RING A BELL??
Don't like your views being challenged much, eh?

This is my last post on this, as I know for certain that you're going to bend prophesy to make it fit. Using metaphores, any prophesy can be interpretted as truth.

But...

It's obvious when reading the entirety of that prophesy, that the "house" being referred to is the Holy Temple, not "Heaven". Solomon builds the temple, and it was destroyed. Solomon was David's son, directly, coming from David's bowels, almost literally. Nor did Jesus establish a permanent kingdom for his people where they weren't persecuted. The Jews remained persecuted under Roman rule even after Jesus died, with no land to call their own. So the prophesy still fails. The second temple, which was still there during the time of Jesus, was destroyed after his death. That Temple was the "house" of the Lord.

[hailtothekingbaby]

Edited this post to near-non-existentness for being ridiculously offending. My apologies. I'm not having a good day.

[campbell34]

I know what it's saying. Look at the combined verses, it's real simple.

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

who is David's seed that builds a house for the lord? Solomon, of course. Then we go to

14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

Solomon didn't commit iniquity, but if you want to get all metaphorical and say that "he" is actually a metaphore for the line of David, then you have to deal with:

15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

so their kingdom shouldn't have been destroyed anyway, and the Jews shouldn't have had to deal with the opposite of

10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,

which of course happened immediately following Solomon's death. Both the Babylonians and the Assyrians (the very "children of wickedness") came and wiped them out.

Again, making Biblical prophesy into metaphorical prophesy is a double edged sword. Every prophet that ever lived can be proven true if you start reading into the words too much.The bible clearly talks about Gods temple to come, and Solomon's temple measurement are way to small. God's everlasting temple is measured in miles, not in feet. You are jumping the gun on this prophecy. God's everlasting temple is number 4. The Jews must build a third temple, and even this one will not be God's temple. God's Son in this prophecy is not Solomon. God's Son who will build the everlasting temple is Jesus Christ.

[campbell34]

I know what it's saying. Look at the combined verses, it's real simple.

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

who is David's seed that builds a house for the lord? Solomon, of course. Then we go to

14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

Solomon didn't commit iniquity, but if you want to get all metaphorical and say that "he" is actually a metaphore for the line of David, then you have to deal with:

15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

so their kingdom shouldn't have been destroyed anyway, and the Jews shouldn't have had to deal with the opposite of

10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,

which of course happened immediately following Solomon's death. Both the Babylonians and the Assyrians (the very "children of wickedness") came and wiped them out.

Again, making Biblical prophesy into metaphorical prophesy is a double edged sword. Every prophet that ever lived can be proven true if you start reading into the words too much.
Your statement that Solomon did not commit iniquity is also incorrect. Consider what the bible states concerning him in 1 Kings 11:6. Solomon did that which was evil in the sight of Yahweh, and didn't go fully after Yahweh, as did David his father.

[mart_182]

however, America doesn't have to deal with "barbarian" tribes outside its borders.
canada?

[mart_182]

canada?
oops, thats already been said :eek:

[JesusDiedForU]

Don't like your views being challenged much, eh?

This is my last post on this, as I know for certain that you're going to bend prophesy to make it fit. Using metaphores, any prophesy can be interpretted as truth.
I love my views challenged.... it makes me really think what I believe.

Last post eh? ..... hate being wrong?

Jesus loves you and has a plan for your life if you accept it.

[BlackGuardXIII]

I love my views challenged.... it makes me really think what I believe.

Last post eh? ..... hate being wrong?

Jesus loves you and has a plan for your life if you accept it.
I just wanted to share my take on the New Testament, and see what you think.
Not as a challenge, since I do not claim that you are wrong, in fact, it is my strong belief that although we disagree, we are both right.

Here goes. I believe Jesus wed Mary Magdalene, and the water to wine wedding is His.
I believe that he did not die on the cross, but was 'knocked out' by the sop, and taken down well within a reasonable time to survive.
I believe He was nailed to the cross by Romans for trying to become the King of Israel, and doing well at it.
I believe He had children, and that His descendants very likely live today.
I believe that John, the disciple, was a woman, and that her gender was changed by patriarchally obsessed church fathers.
I believe Judas was likely His most trusted disciple if he did in fact betray Him to the Romans as per Jesus' orders.
I believe He was not from Nazareth, but instead was a Nazorean.
I believe that He did live, contrary to two quite well-researched books that argue convincingly He was a fictitious character, and a fellow named Josephus created the whole story to curry favor with Rome.

I stress, this is what I believe, and is not a challenge. It would take a long time to justify why I believe each point, so forgive me if I do not. I have that luxury since I am not trying to convince anyone else that my belief is the 'right' one.

[campbell34]

however, America doesn't have to deal with "barbarian" tribes outside its borders.
No we don't have to worry about barbarian tribes. Just nuclear missiles that can be over every American city in 18 minutes.

[Nimrod's Apprentice]

Yea its very true we could be Babylon of the bible. History does repeat itself, and yes we are alot like Rome. We did follow their ideals of a Republic, and we are a truly materialistic society as was stated before. Yet we aren't Empire builiding like the Romans, through war and physical gains. Instead we are doing it financially. Our internal corruption is much more devastating today than it was 1000 years ago however. I guess if you wanna call us Rome then the question to take into thought is has our "pax Romana" allready passed us by?

[Major Peacenik]

People have been comparing America to Rome for decades, heralding the fall of a great empire. Nothing has ever come of it. We'll get through this time, and in fifty years, they'll still be saying the country's in a decline...

[Kandahar]

People have been comparing America to Rome for decades, heralding the fall of a great empire. Nothing has ever come of it. We'll get through this time, and in fifty years, they'll still be saying the country's in a decline...

Why do you think that the past success of America is any indication of the future? The global trends indicate that America will NOT remain the sole superpower. Within ten years, China's economy will be bigger than ours, and within twenty they'll have military parity. While the European Union is not yet a formidable force, if they establish some kind of government they may become our equals as well.

If I had to guess, I would say that America won't remain the sole superpower for any more than ten years, and America (under the current Constitution with the same borders) won't exist at all for more than another hundred.

[Major Peacenik]

It's terrbily exciting, isn't it? I can't wait to see what happens.

[Megara]

our country has been in "decline" for a long time.

At the End of WW2, we accounted for something like 50% of the worlds economy. We are now like 26%. Would anyone NOT argue that America is now stronger than when we were in the 40's, 50's, 60's etc when we had a bigger share of the worlds economy?

Kandahar, where on earth are you getting your numbers that china will have a larger economy in 10 years? What is the economy based on? GDP? I'd like to see a source for that. A source for the military one too.

[Kandahar]

Kandahar, where on earth are you getting your numbers that china will have a larger economy in 10 years? What is the economy based on? GDP? I'd like to see a source for that. A source for the military one too.

The economic indicator is based on GDP and economic growth. In 2004, China's GDP was 6.449 trillion dollars, and America's GDP was 10.990 trillion dollars (CIA World Factbook). The Chinese economy grows about 9% per year, and the American economy grows an average of 3% (CIA World Factbook). Assuming these growth rates stay relatively stable (and there's good reason to believe that they will), China should have a larger GDP than the United States by 2014.

As for the military, I rescind my previous assertion after more careful examination of the numbers. Historically, China has spent much less proportionally on its military than the United States, because China has never concerned itself with international affairs outside of its region of the world. As of now, the United States spends approximately 6.7% of its GDP on its military, while China spends only 1.0%. If these numbers stay stable, it probably will indeed take much longer than twenty years for China to achieve military parity.

[Megara]

The economic indicator is based on GDP and economic growth. In 2004, China's GDP was 6.449 trillion dollars, and America's GDP was 10.990 trillion dollars (CIA World Factbook). The Chinese economy grows about 9% per year, and the American economy grows an average of 3% (CIA World Factbook). Assuming these growth rates stay relatively stable (and there's good reason to believe that they will), China should have a larger GDP than the United States by 2014.

you honestly believe that a nation can sustain 9% growth? They are booming, they will level off and drop down to 2-4%. No nation can sustain 9% growth.

here is an interesting read...

edit: http://english.people.com.cn/english/200004/28/eng20000428_39918.html

also, i'm not sure why the cia factbook says that china has a 6 trillion economy... the IMF says its 1.4 trillion(2003 and it didnt grow by 5 trillion in 1 year!)

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-05/19/content_332004.htm

[BlackGuardXIII]

China has more people under the age of 15 than the entire population of the USA. That is a lot of future potential. That damn dam they are getting up and running will supply vast amounts of power to propel their rise up the national influence ladder.

I see this as very good, with the damn dam's huge environmental impact the main exception to that.

[Kandahar]

you honestly believe that a nation can sustain 9% growth? They are booming, they will level off and drop down to 2-4%. No nation can sustain 9% growth.

China has done so for over 15 years...quite a long time for a boom. The bottom line is that China simply has more room to grow because they have only recently started to move toward capitalism, whereas America has been a capitalist nation for its entire history. Also, countries with lower GDP per capita tend to grow faster than wealthy nations.

also, i'm not sure why the cia factbook says that china has a 6 trillion economy... the IMF says its 1.4 trillion(2003 and it didnt grow by 5 trillion in 1 year!)

Dunno. The CIA World Factbook is generally regarded as the definitive online source for country information though. Are you sure the 1.4 trillion dollar figure is the figure for the GDP?

[Megara]

China has done so for over 15 years...quite a long time for a boom. The bottom line is that China simply has more room to grow because they have only recently started to move toward capitalism, whereas America has been a capitalist nation for its entire history. Also, countries with lower GDP per capita tend to grow faster than wealthy nations.

Yes they have more room to grow, but they also need the resources to grow. They will need vast amounts of oil. Whether they can continue to grow at that rate will depend how much oil they can get their hands on. Sooner or later, there will be a big oil shortage that will slow down all the world economies.



Dunno. The CIA World Factbook is generally regarded as the definitive online source for country information though. Are you sure the 1.4 trillion dollar figure is the figure for the GDP?

Well, if iraq is any indicator, i'll take the IMF's word on the GDP. But yes, i'm positive thats for gdp. Unless there are different measurements of GDP that the IMF and CIA are using, which is highly possible since those numbers are SO different.

[BlackGuardXIII]

Oil may not be as crucial to their rise as once may have been. The days of oil as the primary fuel are numbered. The power that they will use may very well come from other sources, such as solar, wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, etc.

[kayy]

rome, & before that Babylon.... That's the scary part w humans, they forget so fast, we just keep on repeating. Let's brake the viscous circle and invent something NEW

[TrippinBTM]

Isn't it strange how for a very long time now, people have always carried the knowledge that someday their civilization will end? Be it in the form of religious stories of apocolypse or something, or historical knowledge of other civilizations...we seem to know this way of life is not sustainable.

One must wonder if "primitive" peoples, living the old ways, ever thought that someday, the shit will hit the fan and their tribe will die...that it was a certainty. I can't imagine that they ever thought that way. I mean, sure they knew it was possible, given a catastrophe like disease, drought, famine, etc...but it couldn't have been seen as an inevitability.

Makes one wonder why we continue to try at this failed experiment we call civilization.

[AannaSolo]

rome, & before that Babylon.... That's the scary part w humans, they forget so fast, we just keep on repeating. Let's brake the viscous circle and invent something NEW

You said it kayy!!!!!

[Veritas]

Our time will come soon. I think it was Stephen Hawkins who said something about our civilization reaching its maximum technological capacity. Now is basically the time where our self destruction begins.

[TrippinBTM]

Our time will come soon. I think it was Stephen Hawkins who said something about our civilization reaching its maximum technological capacity. Now is basically the time where our self destruction begins.
I sure hope so...

[BlackGuardXIII]

Isn't it strange how for a very long time now, people have always carried the knowledge that someday their civilization will end? Be it in the form of religious stories of apocolypse or something, or historical knowledge of other civilizations...we seem to know this way of life is not sustainable.

One must wonder if "primitive" peoples, living the old ways, ever thought that someday, the shit will hit the fan and their tribe will die...that it was a certainty. I can't imagine that they ever thought that way. I mean, sure they knew it was possible, given a catastrophe like disease, drought, famine, etc...but it couldn't have been seen as an inevitability.

Makes one wonder why we continue to try at this failed experiment we call civilization.
Maybe they were aware that if they continued to live in an ecologically sustainable way, allowing nature to remain as is, that nature would always be there to sustain them. If so, then they would not worry, whereas we've known for a long time that we cannot sustain this level of consumption indefinitely. Chief Seattle pointed it out in 1844, so it has been known by some since at least then.

I know what you mean about the strangeness aspect, though it has been decades since I knew that the ancients all around the world independently predicted a shift of some sort right about now. The only group with enough chutzpah to tag an actual date are the Mayans, who are putting their wagers on 13.0.0.0.0 baktun, which is most likely 21/12/12 in our system. The Mayan Calendar then starts over at 1.0.0.0.0, and maybe, just maybe, the actual day will be every bit as spectacularly unique and earth changing as when our calender rolled over from 31/12/00, to 1/1 01.
I think a good reason