hare krishna

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dear friends, it is wonderful! Isn't it so?
Yes. :)


Perfection consists in doing God's will...in being what
He would have us be." It was all beautiful...but this was by far my favourite part ^. :) Thank you so much for sharing...

Also, thank you Andrew for sharing the picture...she reminds me of my grandmother... :)

Hare Krishna!

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[BlackBillBlake]

Also, thank you Andrew for sharing the picture...she reminds me of my grandmother... :)

Hare Krishna!

*Peace and Love*
Nicole
Dear Nicole,

Thank you ! What you say actually has a great resonance for me, as Saint Therese also reminds me (in Her looks) of my own Grandma, a Lady who was born in a nearby region of France at about the same time as Therese.

Love *peace.

[BlackBillBlake]

Here are some more quotes from Saint Therese on the subject of Love – they are taken from ‘The Story of a Soul’ (Her autobiography, written at the request of her sister), and from letters to her sister Celine.



“The good God does not need years to accomplish His work of love in a soul; one ray from His Heart can, in an instant, make His flower bloom for eternity... “

“Seeing the eternal recompense so disproportionate to the trifling sacrifices of this life, I longed to love Jesus, to love Him ardently, to give him a thousand proofs of tenderness while yet I could do so...”

“In times of aridity when I am incapable of praying, of practicing virtue, I seek little opportunities, mere trifles, to give pleasure to Jesus; for instance a smile, a pleasant word when inclined to be silent and to show weariness. If I find no opportunities, I at least tell Him again and again that I love Him; that is not difficult and it keeps alive the fire in my heart. Even though this fire of love might seem extinct I would still throw little straws upon the embers and I am certain it would rekindle.”

“But on whom shall our poor heart lavish its love? Who shall be found that is great enough to be the recipient of its treasures? Will a human being know how to comprehend them, and above all will he be able to repay? There exists but one Being capable of comprehending love; it is Jesus; He alone can give us back infinitely more than we shall ever give to him.”

“I desire no sensible consolation in loving; provided Jesus feel my love that is enough for me. Oh! to love Him and to make Him loved...how sweet it is...”

“O my God, Thou knowest I have never desired but to love Thee alone. I seek no other glory. Thy Love has gone before me from my childhood, it has grown with my growth, and now it is an abyss the depths of which I cannot fathom.”


This Prayer Card was one beloved by Therese, the original is in the museum at Lisieux, France.

[SpliffVortex]

They still work at the airport?

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dearest Andrew,

Thank you for the beautiful quotes...I also very much like that prayer card (although I can only read half of the French on it ;) ) ...again reminds me of my grandmother...she used to have so many...and these little charms with all different saints on them and some of Jesus too...she used to give them to me when I was little...and I have some in a this little bag I got for my first holy communion and then some more when she passed away which are in a box also with postcards that she used to collect...

Thank you again for sharing and for reminding me of fond memories of my dear grandmother. :)

[BlackBillBlake]

Dear Nicole,


If I were you, I'd treasure those little items, and you memories of your dear Grandmother. :)

In the case of Therese, a few prayer cards and similar items were among the very few posessions she had as a Carmelite Sister, living a very simple, and quite tough and demanding life.

Incidentally - my own Grandma did much work for the Free French during World War II, and so played a small part in the downfall of the NAZI's. Thank God that people were prepared to stsnd up against tyranny!

Love & Peace.

[Bhaskar]

:)

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear SGB and BBB,

Thank you for the beautiful posts.

Love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear BBB,

Just saying 'thank you' is not enough for the beautiful quotes from Saint Therese (From "The Story of A Soul"). I feel deep gratitude for sharing this wonderful part of Her Autobiography with all of us.

“I desire no sensible consolation in loving; provided Jesus feels my love that is enough for me. Oh! to love Him and to make Him loved...how sweet it is...”

“O my God, Thou knowest I have never desired but to love Thee alone. I seek no other glory. Thy Love has gone before me from my childhood, it has grown with my growth, and now it is an abyss the depths of which I cannot fathom.”


That is so beautiful! Please carry on with the good job of spreading the words of love(Prem) for God. That is the best seva and offering at His feet.

Love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear all friends, here is a poetry-a very short one- written by Dilip Kumar Roy, Dadaji. Hope, you will like it.

TRUE SEER

Man wailed : "How heartless art thou, Lord!
To have fooled me with these traitor eyes!
When I seek their aid to be led to thy Truth
They feed me with make-believes and lies!"

God laughed : "Why not, son, use your eyes
where they can help you the way to find?
Then, when you're homesick for my Truth,
Search with your heart, for the eyes are blind."


Love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear all friends,

Following is a piece of beautiful poetry by Dadaji, Dilip Kumar Roy, on Rabeya, the great Arab Saint. She also talks in the same line as all other great Saints. They all establish only one thing that God is there, that is the Truth and nothing but the whole Truth. Let us pray for that love and 'Ahaituki' (without reason) Bhakti(Devotion). Here it is :

RABEYA

"O Allah, I love thee so," Rabeya sang in a mystic ecstasy,
"That to live without thee for a moment seems a dark eternity.
And a blessed eternity with thee, Lord, passes like a lightning -flash :
Thou hast reversed all rooted concepts, kindling afire my life of ash!"

"Oh what a love, Rabeya!" cried a devotee who kissed her feet.
"But tell me : is your heart for Satan with an equal hate replete?"

The virgin laughed : "My heart now so overflows with love
for the One on high,
The hate is crowded out : to none I can with aught but love reply."

(This is a part of a very long and beautiful poetry on The Great Saint Rabeya)

Love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Dear Kumar,


Thanks for the two pieces by Dadaji, I especially liked the first one.

He seems to be sying that if we just look with our eyes all we will see is the surface, the appearance - to get a sight of Truth, we have to look with the heart, or the inner eye.

Love & peace.

[BlackBillBlake]

Saint Therese was asked "what is this Little Way that you would teach to souls?"

Therese replied "It is the way of Spiritual Childhood, the way of trust and absolute self-surrender"

[gdkumar]

HareKrishna!

Dear BBB,

Thank you for your two posts.
Yes, the first poetry surely meant the need of developing the inner eye and to look into one's own heart. That is our actual home where we reside as soul. So, when we are homesick we should try to get back to our home, that is our heart.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Saint Therese was asked "what is this Little Way that you would teach to souls?"

Therese replied "It is the way of Spiritual Childhood, the way of trust and absolute self-surrender"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is really so beautiful ! Thanks again.

Love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dearest Kumar,

Thank you for the two beautiful pieces of poetry from Dadaji. :)

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Saint Therese was asked "what is this Little Way that you would teach to souls?"

Therese replied "It is the way of Spiritual Childhood, the way of trust and absolute self-surrender"
This is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing. :)

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!





HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA
KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA
RAMA RAMA HARE HARE


Jai Gopal ! Jai Gopal ! Jai Gopal !


They say, "He is a thief, a butter Thief !"
Every thing belongs to Him and is very much
His own, still He is a Thief ! In His Divine Lila
He has taken the part of playing the Thief ....
ours is all other roles but all optional. Let us
opt for the role to be stolen by Him, to be like
a piece of butter, be stolen and dissolved by Him.


Love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

You may or may not have heard this one...but its one of my favourites:

"Footprints

One night a man had a dream. He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the Lord. Across the sky flashed scenes from his life. For each scene, he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand; one belonging to him and the other to the Lord.

When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand. He noticed that many times along the path of his life there was only one set of footprints. He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times of his life.

This really bothered him, and he questionsed the Lord about it. "Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you, you would walk with me all the way. But I have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life, there is only one set of footprints. I don't understand why, when I needed you most you would me?"

The Lord replied, "My precious, precious child, I love you and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you."- Mary Stevenson

[gdkumar]

You may or may not have heard this one...but its one of my favourites:

"Footprints

One night a man had a dream. He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the Lord. Across the sky flashed scenes from his life. For each scene, he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand; one belonging to him and the other to the Lord.

When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand. He noticed that many times along the path of his life there was only one set of footprints. He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times of his life.

This really bothered him, and he questionsed the Lord about it. "Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you, you would walk with me all the way. But I have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life, there is only one set of footprints. I don't understand why, when I needed you most you would me?"

The Lord replied, "My precious, precious child, I love you and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you."- Mary Stevenson
..............From SGB

Hare Krishna!

Dear SGB,

Thank you for the wonderful story. If I remember well it is from The Bible. It is one of the best stories ever told for all of us, the human beings. The words of love, hope and confidence building. Whatever we may think under illusion(Maya) He never leaves us even for a while. Because He and we are one, non-dual. Under the influence of Maya we fail to understand and feel this and consequently we suffer so much.

Radha was waiting for Krishna to come to her but Krishna went first to Chadravali who also prayed for Him. Being sentimental Radha refused to see Krishna again. Krishna tried to persuade through Radha's friend and messenger, Brinda, who gave Him the news that Radha was terribly upset and would not see Him again.

Krishna told Brinda, " Chandravali also wanted only me with all her devotion, love (Prem) and prayers. So I had to see her, I have to show up to anybody who prays for me the way Chandravali did."
Krishna also told Brinda, "Brinde, dear, Radha cannot survive even for moments without seeing me, how she can leave me and for what cause? Dear Brinde, I am Radha, my eyes are Radha, my body, heart...my whole being is Radha...how she or I can leave one another ?

This also reflects the light of the same story which you mentioned. Dear Nicole, thank you again.

Love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dearest Kumar,

Thank you for that lovely story...definetely similar and equally as beautiful. :)

Hare Krishna!

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[BlackBillBlake]

'Did not Christ say: "Those who are heavy laden, come to me and I will give you rest"? Why not hold Him to that promise - why not give the Lord a trial?........

What is neccesary is for each one of us to give what we can. Don't calculate, don't plan. Whatever little you have to give to the Lord - give it today. Some days back Indira overheard one aspirant tell another: "I missed two hours meditation yesterday. Today I'll make it up". He did not realize that those moments he failed to think of Him were gone forever!
People say: "As soon as I get out of my present circumstances, I'll give myself up to the Lord". But this tommorrow never comes, it is eternally before us. Does a mother say "Tommorrow, after I do this or that thing I will love my son?" No, that is not the way. The hostile forces will see to it that your circumstances remain always with you.
If you cannot give yourself completely to Him today, then pray that you may be able to do so tommorrow. Only give what you can today. If you are sincere there will always be time to remember Him, no matter what we are doing. If we truly want Him, He is bound to change our circumstances if they are unfavourable. I defy anyone to disprove this. The crux of the trouble is that we do not really want Him.'

Ma Indira Devi in 'PILGRIMS OF THE STARS'.


'We are told to abstain from fleshy desires that we may loose no time from the work of the Lord. Every moment lost is a moment that cannot be redeemed; every pleasure that intermingles with the duty of our station is a folly un-redeemable, and is planted like the seed of a wild flower among our wheat. All the tortures of repentance are tortures of self-reproach on account of our leaving the Divine harvest to the enemy, the struggles of entanglement with incoherent roots.'

'He who waits to be righteous before entering the Saviour's Kingdom will never enter in there'. (my italics).

William Blake in 'JERUSALEM'.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear Nicole,

Thank you!


Dear Bill,

Thank you for the wonderful post!
Truly it says that the time gone does never come back and we waste the opportunity to look at Him for the period lost.That is why it is so important to form the habit of remembering Him through the process of doing Japa. It can never be done by planning. Continuous Japa or 'Smarana' removes the ideas of preponing or postponing the thing that we must do, that is to remember Him, to thank Him and to talk to Him(This automatically happens when Bhav becomes deep and continuous. He is never away from us, He never leaves us. We, the egoistic souls, just deny to accept His existence even ! How can He show up? ..................

Thank you again for the post causing Bhav(Thought) for the Lord again.

Love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Thanks for sharing that Andrew....:)
---
Something a bit different...

"The Hardest Part is People

The hardest part is people
So Lord, help me face them
without rancor or disappointment
Help me to see the pain behind their actions
rather than the malace;
the suffering rather than the rage

And in myself, as I struggle
with the vise of my own desire--
give me the strength to quiet my heart,
to quicken my empathy, to act
in gratitude rather than need.

Remind me that the peace I find
in the slow track of seasons
or an uncurling fern frond,
is married to the dispair I feel
in the face of nuclear war.

Remind me that each small bird shares atoms
with anthrax, with tetanus, with acid rain,
that each time I close my heart
to another, I add to the darkness;
Help me always to follow kindness.

Let this be my prayer."

--Karen Holden

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna !


He is inside us, He never leaves us. He shows up to him who prays for Him with love, bhakti and prem.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Patram pushpam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati
Tadaham bhaktyaupahritam ashnami prayatatmanah"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whatever in love one offers Me
Fruit, water, flowers or leaves
My heart in joy receives
To bless My devotee"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There was a priest, a very poor Brahmin, in Brindaban, who used to weave garlands daily from dawn to midnight for the Lord. That was his only sadhana : he went ever on offering such garlands to the Lord. But the Lord was mute like the marble he worshipped till, after twelve years, the Brahmin concluded that the Lord would not come to life in the Image to accept him and make him His own. So he decided to drown himself in the Jamuna. As he was about to take the final plunge , the Lord as Balgopal appeared before him, barring his way and said : 'If you drown yourself to-night, my dear, who would weave garlands for me tomorrow?'

In the Bhagavat He said to the Gopis that He absented Himself from them temporarily only to deepen their thirst for Him.

Love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Thanks both for the quotes. I hope this may be of interest also.




“Now you might ask, what is detachment, since it is so noble in itself? Here you should know that true detachment is nothing other than this: the spirit stands immoveable in all the assaults of joy and sorrow, honour, disgrace or shame, as a mountain of lead stands immoveable against a small wind. This immoveable detachment brings about in man the greatest similarity with God. For if God is God, He has it from His immoveable detachment, and from this detachment He has His purity, His simplicity and His immutability. And therefore, if man is to become like God, as far as a creature can possess similarity to God, it must be by means of detachment. It is this that leads man to purity and from purity to simplicity and from simplicity to immutability. And these things bring about a certain similarity between God and man. But this similarity must take place through grace, for grace draws man from temporal things and purifies him from all transient things.”



Miester Eckhart.

[Bhaskar]

Beautiful, bill. Reminds me of a verse by Goswami Tulsidas, from his Ramcharitmanas:

prasannata ya na gatabhishekatah
tatha na mamle vanavaasa dukhatah
mukhambujha shree raghunandanasyame
sadastu sa manjula mangala prada.

May the face of Sri Rama,
which did not light up with joy upon hearing of his impending coronation,
nor cloud over with disappointment upon being sentenced to live in the forest the next day,
always bring grace and goodness to me.

[BlackBillBlake]

"Prayer in my opinion is nothing else than an intimate sharing between friends; it means taking time frequently to be alone with Him who we know loves us."


Saint Teresa of Avila.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dearest Andrew,

That is a beautiful quote. :) Thank you.
----

A random and beautiful picture post!

http://www.dharmakshetra.com/literature/gaudiya/reflections.JPG

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


Dear Bill,

That's a wonderful quote from Saint Teresa of Avila, thank you.

Love,
Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


Dear Nicole,

That's a very beautiful photograph! How do you manage to get them?

Thank you so much !

Love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Truthfully...I went to google images and typed the word :"Sri Krishna" and it was the one that jumped out of the page and said : "Post me!" hehehe

[IronGoth]

So yeah, Hare Krsna - read Monkey on a Stick and looked at all the abused children.

You will tell the tree by the health of its fruit.

[BlackBillBlake]

So yeah, Hare Krsna - read Monkey on a Stick and looked at all the abused children.

You will tell the tree by the health of its fruit.
Yes - we know all about the abuses in ISKCON - there are previous posts to this thread giving links to details. But - ISKCON are one small sect within the much larger compass of hinduism. The majority of people in this world who believe in Krishna are not members of ISKCON, or even adherents to it's off-centre teachings.

[IronGoth]

Are we talking about Hare Krsna or Hinduism? Hare Krsna is, as a Brahmin friend of mine once said (rather too rudely for my tastes) a kind of Hinduism-lite that tries to distill centuries of religious thought into "dance around mumbling a Sanskrit limerick."

I wouldn't say it quite so disrespectfully, but Hare Krsna != Hinduism.

[BlackBillBlake]

Are we talking about Hare Krsna or Hinduism? Hare Krsna is, as a Brahmin friend of mine once said (rather too rudely for my tastes) a kind of Hinduism-lite that tries to distill centuries of religious thought into "dance around mumbling a Sanskrit limerick."

I wouldn't say it quite so disrespectfully, but Hare Krsna != Hinduism.
What your friend says is right, but perhaps needs a little more adding to get a truer picture.

The Hare Krishna movement, known as ISKCON, are a particular sect which derives from Hinduism. But just as in the west, there are many churches and sects who worship Jesus Christ, in India there are different lines and schools of yoga, many of whom acknowledge the Divinity of Krishna. It is mainly Bhakti Yogis, those practicing devotion who are focused on Him.
From a philosophical standpoint, your friend is quite right that the ISKCON teachings represent 'hinduism-lite'. And worse, they are very narrow minded and closed to anything but their own teachings.
And still worse, the whole movement is completely corrupt, including in the past to the extent of serious criminality. To-day it's a fragmented mess. If ISKCON people find my saying that disrespectful, so be it. But it is true.

This thread has gone from Hare Krishna to Hinduism in general to pretty well anything connected with spirituality.

*peace*

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

This thread has gone from Hare Krishna to Hinduism in general to pretty well anything connected with spirituality.

*peace*
I think that is def. safe to say that that is indeed what has happened to this thread....lol...

[Bhaskar]

What makes me really sad is that the ISKON have taken a truly beautiful school of Hinduism, Gaudiya Vaisnavism, and totally defiled it. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was a great bhakta and truly noble person, but now his name is inextricably tied up with ISKON, because of one bad disciple in the lineage.

[BlackBillBlake]

What makes me really sad is that the ISKON have taken a truly beautiful school of Hinduism, Gaudiya Vaisnavism, and totally defiled it. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was a great bhakta and truly noble person, but now his name is inextricably tied up with ISKON, because of one bad disciple in the lineage.
That's about right Bhaskar. And I notice that, presumably because they seek to defend the indefensible, they've all stopped posting on this thread. It is sad that the very thing meant to liberate people leads only to increased bondage to narrowness and division.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!



Dear IronGoth,

Welcome to this thread which, to the best of my understanding, is all about God, His messages and His devotees. Let us concentrate on that only. When you start churning anything to obtain something in particular, undesirable things will automatically come and separate out(Because you don't want them).

Names of God, His devotees and religions are different but we are all trying to understand that it is one with so many differences. He has become good and bad as well, so we cannot have love and hate feelings. Can we go above these feelings? That is the whole point.

Love,

Kumar.


Very nice posts from SGB, Bill and Bhaskar.....Thanks to all of you.

Love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was a great bhakta and truly noble person, but now his name is inextricably tied up with ISKON, because of one bad disciple in the lineage.Actually Bhaskar, it is worse than that, because prior to Srila Prabhupada's coming to the west, the situation in the Gaudia Math back in India was pretty bad. The details of this are hard to get at, but it seems that there was some dispute over the lineage on the passing of Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati - as I understand it, false claimants put themselves forward, and the norm became "kill guru become guru". Nor do the Gaudia Math people accept that SP was the true successor. At least, so far as I can ascertain - they don't exactly broadcast this stuff, in fact, they'd like to keep it hidden.
So it's not just SP who is to blame. The thing seems to have been pretty corrupt before he came west.
I get no joy from these posts denouncing ISKCON, I feel it sad that it is neccessary. I would only say that as I know a few ex-devotees, who have suffered badly due to the fallout from all this, I just feel it's sad if young people get mislead.

In a way, It's similar to the situation with Christianity, where there is a history of corruption etc. in the Church. One can criticize the church, that doesn't mean Christianity is a fake or has nothing to offer. It just means it has become twisted and distorted. Similarly, although some of these so called devotees are both ignorant and corrupt, it doesn't at all mean that Krishna is no good, or that there aren't very sincere and pure devotees around. (I know you know that is so Bhaskar).

Where Sri Chaitanya is concerned, it is a shame there isn't more literature in English about Him. I don't actually know of any other book than SP's 'Golden Avatar'. (of course there are references to him in many works by various writers) If anyone does know of an alternative life of Chaitanya, I'd be very grateful to hear of it.

*peace*

[Bhaskar]

Here is Swami Sivananda's chapter on Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, from his book Lives of Saints...

http://www.dlshq.org/saints/gauranga.htm

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

'And when he sees me in all and sees all in me,
Then I never leave him and he never leaves me.
And he, who in this oneness of love
Loves me in whatever he sees,
Wherever this man may live,
In truth, he lives in me...'

Bhagavad Gita, VI:30,31

[BlackBillBlake]

Here is Swami Sivananda's chapter on Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, from his book Lives of Saints...

http://www.dlshq.org/saints/gauranga.htm
Thanks Bhaskar - I'll check that out. I like Swami Sivanada - I think his works are very clear, easy to read and inspiring.

[BlackBillBlake]

In the individual existence, the spirit is what makes all the difference; so long as one just speaks of the spirit and it is something one has read about, whose existence one vaguely knows about, but not a very concrete reality for the consciousness, this means that one is not born into the spirit. And when one is born into the spirit, it becomes something much more concrete, much more living, much more real, much more tangible than the whole material world. And this is what makes the essential difference between beings. When that becomes spontaneously real – the true, concrete existence, the atmosphere one can freely breathe – then one knows one has crossed over to the other side. But so long as it is something rather vague and hazy – you have heard about it, you know that it exists, but…it has no concrete reality – well, this means that the new birth has not yet taken place.



Sweet Mother in “ The Sunlit Path”

[BlackBillBlake]

I was feeling earlier on that at times, the going can get tough. I picked up the book ‘Yogi Sri Krishnaprem’ by Dilip Kumar Roy, it opened at p.207, and I read the following passage from one of Krishnaprem’s letters:



“You say you find it hard to go on. That is a good sign. This path is the hardest in the world and as long as we find it easy we may be sure we are not getting very far but just free-wheeling easily along a level road. Oh yes, we may be happy and peaceful for a time but that happiness or peace is illusory; anything can disturb it and we achieve nothing. His peace is something quite different, something that has its being in the very heart of tremendous winds. Winds which would shatter us to atoms. It is only when the strain begins to tell on us, when the breath comes short, that we can know we are really climbing. Till then, all that we have done at most is to go over rapidly the ground we covered in a previous life. This life begins when the strain comes on – scarcely before. There is no attainment of Him until the egg-shell of self is broken. Why then should we complain when the breaking-strain begins to come on? With pain we are born both physically and spiritually, but it is the inner life we seek and not the self-enwrapped bliss of uterine existence.

Fill yourself with Krishna, occupy your thoughts with Him, and let all your actions be for Him. Surely you will find Him……………………..

…..Why worry over what your fellows around you say or do? Each of us has his or her own egg-shell cracked. Some are cracked in one way, some in another, but all are broken in the end…….

…………..See Krishna, think of Krishna, act for Krishna and, if you believe me, you will find Krishna with the uttermost certainty though the world should crack and open up beneath your feet. This is the truth. All else but Him is nothing, absolutely nothing”.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Wow...that was beautiful...thank you Andrew... :)

[Bhaskar]

The beauty of the lord is that he is available to all of us, in whichever form we choose to see him.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

The beauty of the lord is that he is available to all of us, in whichever form we choose to see him.
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gifhttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gifhttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[BlackBillBlake]

The beauty of the lord is that he is available to all of us, in whichever form we choose to see him.
And beyond form too. :)

[BlackBillBlake]

If you want a clear and easy to read translation of the tenth canto of the Bhagavatam, where the stories of Sri Krishna's earthly pastimes are related, I would recommend this book.

http://img25.echo.cx/img25/7180/014044799702lzzzzzzz1os.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us/)

The Beautiful Legend of God. Edited & translated by Edwin F. Bryant, published by Penguin Classics.

Jai Govinda!

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Wow...I didn't know that there was one out for the "western front" that wasn't by Srilla Prabhupada...thank you for that...I will def. look into it. I really like Penguin Classics...they put out some nicely done books. :)

[BlackBillBlake]

Thanks Nicole. It's the only other version that's readily available so far as I know.

[Bhaskar]

https://www.cybermatics2.com/chinmaya/images/Bhagavatam.jpg

This is a version by Swami Chidananda Saraswati, available through the chinmaya publications webpage at https://www.cybermatics2.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=6&Product_ID=150&CATID=45

It is not a translation so much as a narration of the same contents of the bhagavatam.

If someone is interested I very strongly recommend taking a week off to go to Chicago, July 4th to 11th, for Swami Tejomayananda's bhagavatam week. I speak form personal experience of his bhagavat saptahas. Guruji is truly a wonderful story teller and he sings wonderful bhajans and brings out all the beauty, the emotion, the love while maintaining a strong focus on the philosophical symbolism, the import of the stories of the lord.

[BlackBillBlake]

Thanks Bhaskar. That looks good. But I meant that the book to which I referred is an actual verse by verse translation, with no commentary (other than explaining sanskrit words etc) and as Nicole said in her post, the only other version generally available in western countries is Prabhupada's

Since the stories of Lord Krishna's lila are so great, it seems a pity that they aren't more widely known outside India, but the fact is that most people don't know them, or even that they exist. It is true that one can read Prabhupada's translation, although there are voluminous (and in my opinion misleading) commentaries. There is also his 'Krishna' book, a re-telling based on the Purana, which is OK, but once again is slanted in favour of SP's own interpretation, which is very literalist.

For someone wanting to find out the basics about Krishna, these stories are indispensible.

One other thing: there is an Indian TV version of 'Mahabarata', which was shown on British TV some years ago, and is now available on DVD - although since it covers over 90 hours it is also rather expensive - but it contains all of Krishna's pastimes, and of course, a great deal more.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Thanks Bhaskar. That looks good. But I meant that the book to which I referred is an actual verse by verse translation, with no commentary (other than explaining sanskrit words etc) and as Nicole said in her post, the only other version generally available in western countries is Prabhupada's

Since the stories of Lord Krishna's lila are so great, it seems a pity that they aren't more widely known outside India, but the fact is that most people don't know them, or even that they exist. It is true that one can read Prabhupada's translation, although there are voluminous (and in my opinion misleading) commentaries. There is also his 'Krishna' book, a re-telling based on the Purana, which is OK, but once again is slanted in favour of SP's own interpretation, which is very literalist.

For someone wanting to find out the basics about Krishna, these stories are indispensible.

One other thing: there is an Indian TV version of 'Mahabarata', which was shown on British TV some years ago, and is now available on DVD - although since it covers over 90 hours it is also rather expensive - but it contains all of Krishna's pastimes, and of course, a great deal more.
Yea...the Krishna book is the one I read because someone at the GeorgeHarrison forum sent the website to me... but the stories were good nonetheless...(they make good stories when babysitting ;)...esp. the one where Krishna steals the Gopis clothes...:) )...but I do want to see that other book...

That tv/dvd thing sounds cool...but those dvds (even if I had the money) don't usually work on American dvd players (I tried to buy Palin's Travel's off the BBC store online and the format is different)...but I'll bet it was really cool to watch...somethings are sometimes even better in AV (and that is from a book lover to the extreme! )

[BlackBillBlake]

Yes, they're excellent stories alright!http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif


Actually, the 'Krishna' book is probably one of Prabhupada's most readable, despite the limitations.

Your right about DVDs - there are different formats in the USA and Europe - however, many TV sets and DVD players these days will play both - but I just looked on Amazon, and the version I had in mind isn't on there, although there's a shortened version (only 5 discs!), but it is in PAL (Euro) format.
Here's the cover anyway.

http://img79.echo.cx/img79/4583/b0000bv1j902lzzzzzzz7zu.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us/)

[BlackBillBlake]

Couldn't resist posting this...........

http://img236.echo.cx/img236/6393/f2smirabai6df.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us/)

Jai Mirabai!

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Oh...what a pretty picture. :) I <3 Mirabai. :)

[Bhaskar]

I watched the entire Mahabharat TV series and the Ramayan TV series as well. I was not very happy with it, although it tells the stories accurately and well, the actors themselves are not very skilled andthe special effects are comical almost. I especially didnt care for the guy who acted as Sri Krishna, he was far too effeminate. All the same, HAri katha is hari katha, whatever defects it may have in presentation, it brings our minds to rest on the lord, which is the whole point anyway.

[BlackBillBlake]

I watched the entire Mahabharat TV series and the Ramayan TV series as well. I was not very happy with it, although it tells the stories accurately and well, the actors themselves are not very skilled andthe special effects are comical almost. I especially didnt care for the guy who acted as Sri Krishna, he was far too effeminate. All the same, HAri katha is hari katha, whatever defects it may have in presentation, it brings our minds to rest on the lord, which is the whole point anyway.

I haven't seen Ramayana, so I can't comment on that. But I agree that there are flaws in Mahabharata, although I thought the actor playing Krishna was great. And overall. I wouldn't criticize the quality of the acting. The special effects though are rather pathetic ;) but as you say, it tells the story accurately, and I know I enjoyed it despite the defects. The thing is so powerful, it comes through anyway.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

"While visiting Benares, Kabir always passed by the same man
daily, who was always sitting in his garden. One day, Kabir
said to him, 'Good Sir, instead of merely sitting in your garden
doing nothing, why not sit in meditation and make spiritual
progress?'

"The man replied, 'I have a family. My children are young, and I
cannot find enough time for spiritual practices now. But I will
practice spirituality when the children grow up.'

"Years later, after the children had grown up, Kabir met the
same man again. 'Now that your children are older, do you find time for meditation?'

"This time the man responded, 'I am in the process of getting my
children married off so they can live independently. As soon as they are all married, I will begin my spiritual practices.'

"A few years passed, and Kabir met the man again. He again
inquired about the man's spiritual life. 'Now that your children are
married, do you have time for meditation?'

"'My children have grandchildren, and I am watching them grow up, receive an education, and then marry.'

"Some years passed, and Kabir returned to find that the man had
passed away. Kabir Sahib shook his head and said, 'The poor man has spent his whole life thinking he would find time for meditation, and passed away without devoting any time to discover his soul. His mind led him into such a deep attachment to this world that he did not take any time for his own meditations.'"

[BlackBillBlake]

A nice story - it shows clearly that the time to seek for Him is now - there will always be some reason we can find why it's not possible, and meanwhile, our span of worldly existence races past.............we wait for a tommorrow that never comes.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear Nicole,

As Bill has said, it is indeed a very nice and inspiring story, thank you.

So let us not stand and stare uselessly any more wasting the precious time which is never to come back again and is ticking off every moment of our life time.

Let us chant and praise His name alone. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

With love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Sri Ramakrishna: "He who has God here

(pointing to the heart), has Him also there (pointing

to the external world). He who does not find God

within himself, will NEVER find Him outside of

himself. But he who sees Him in the temple of his own

soul, sees Him also in the temple of the universe."

[BlackBillBlake]

More from Sri Ramakrishna.



“What will you know by reading books? Till you have reached the market place, you can only hear noises like ‘ho-ho’ from a distance. It is quite different when you reach the market. Then you will clearly see, you will clearly hear, ‘Take these potatoes, pay for them.’

‘‘From a distance there is a sound of ‘ho-ho’ from the sea. When you come near to it, you are able to see that so many ships are sailing, the birds are flying and the waves are rising.

“One does not gain the right kind of experience by reading books. It is quite distant. After realizing Him books, scriptures, science all seem to be ‘khadkuto’ (dry straw, grass, twigs, etc.).

“You have to introduce yourself to the master of the house. Before that why are you so eager to know how many houses, gardens and scrips of companies he has? If you approach the servants, they will not even let you stand there. What information they will give you of the company shares? On the other hand, try somehow to meet the master even if you are pushed aside or you have to jump over the fence. Then he will himself tell you how many houses and gardens and shares he has. When you know the master, the servants, the doorkeeper and all others will salute you.’’ (Everybody laughs.)

The Devotee — Now, how to meet the master of the house? (All laugh.)

Sri Ramakrishna — That’s why karma (*action) is needed. It does not avail if you say, ‘God is’ and keep sitting where you are. You have somehow to approach Him. Call upon Him secretly, pray to Him, ‘Grant me Thy vision, grant please.’ Say this and cry with a longing heart. Just as you roam madly for ‘woman and gold’, be a bit crazy for Him too. Let people say that such and such person has gone mad for God. Give up everything for some days and only call upon Him secretly.

“What will it avail just to say ‘He exists’ and do nothing? There are big fish in Haldarpukur. Can you catch fish just by sitting on its bank? To attract it, you have to prepare its food and put it in the pond. The fish will come slowly from the deep water and agitate it. You will then feel happy. Maybe you are able to see a bit of a fish at times. A fish suddenly jumps up and you see it. You are then happier when you see it.

‘‘Turn the milk into curds, churn it and only then you will get butter.”

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


OM RAMAKRISHNAYA NAMAH
OM RAMAKRISHNAYA NAMAH
OM RAMAKRISHNAYA NAMAH




Dear BBB,

Wonderful ! Beautiful ! Thank you for presenting the matchless pieces from the Master, Thakur Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa. These very inspiring talks tell us everything about God and how to go about attaining God-realization.

Thank you again, dear brother.


Love,


Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dearest Andrew,

Thank you for those too beautiful pieces. :)

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

The Divine Image by William Blake

To Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love
All pray their distress;
And to these virtues of delight
Return their thankfulness.

For Mercy, Pity, Peace, and Love
Is God, our father dear,
And Mercy, Pity, Peace and Love
Is Man, his child and care.

For Mercy has a human heart,
Pity a human face,
And Love, the human form divine
And Peace, the human dress.

Then every man, of every clime
That prays in his distress,
Prays to the human form divine
Love, Mercy, Pity, Peace.

And all must love the human form,
In heathen, turk, or jew;
Where Mercy, Love, & Pity dwell
There God is dwelling too

btw...I think that when he says the "human form" that he is talking about the Spirit/the Self...but that was just my interpretation. :)

[BlackBillBlake]

Thanks for that Nicole. There is much debate and discussion about the true meaning of Blake's works. Myself I think that when he says 'the human form divine' he means the body. I know that might seem like a contradiction, but I think that Blake did see the body as a form manifested by the Divine. There is a lot in his works that gives rise to that idea, for example, the following extract from 'The Marriage of Heaven and Hell':


'The Voice of the Devil'
All Bibles and sacred codes have been the causes of the two following errors:
1. That man has two real existing principles, viz. a body and a soul.
2.That energy, called evil, is alone from the body; and that Reason, called good, is alone from the soul.
3. That God will torment man in Eternity for following his energies.
But the following contraries to these are true:
1. Man has no body distinct from his soul; for that called body is a portion of the soul discerned by the five senses, the chief inlets of the soul in this age.
2. Energy is the only life, and is from the body; the reason is the bound or outward circumfrence of energy.
3. Energy is Eternal delight.

The key (as always in Blake) is in Christianity. When Christ became One man, He became all men. He 'divinized' the human form. It is in such a form that the Lord Himself advents Himself among us.
Also, Blake was perhaps seeking to establish a kind of respect for the body against a background of medieval Christian ideas about the body's inherent sinfulness. See also his painting 'Glad Day' - Blake's celebration of the simple and unadorned human form.

On the other hand, Blake is not 100% consistent in what he says - he was, after all, a poet and not a philosopher or theologian. Hence, we get a different view expressed in 'To Tirzah', a poem he added to the original manuscript of 'Songs of Experience' some 20 years after it's composition.

To Tirzah.

What'er is born of mortal birth
Must be consumed with the earth
To rise from generation free
Then what have I to do with thee?

The sexes sprung from shame and pride,
Blowed in the morn, in evening died;
But mercy changed death into sleep;
The sexes rose to work and weep.

Thou, Mother of my mortal part,
With cruelty didst mould my heart,
And with false self-decieving tears
Didst bind my nostrils, eyes and ears;

Didst close my tongue in senseless clay,
And me to mortal life betray:
The death of Jesus set me free:
Then what have I to do with thee?

Which gives again a more orthodox picture. But I think ultimately what he means by 'Human Form Divine' is the human form redeemed through Jesus Christ.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Hmm...that's really interesting...thank you for sharing Andrew. :)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I thought this was pretty:

O Christ Jesus,
when all is darkness
and we feel our weakness and helplessness,
give us the sense of Your presence,
Your love, and Your strength.
Help us to have perfect trust
in Your protecting love
and strengthening power,
so that nothing may frighten or worry us,
for, living close to You,
we shall see Your hand,
Your purpose, Your will through all things.

- St. Ignatius of Loyola

:)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

The Plums Tasted

The plums tasted
sweet to the unlettered desert-tribe girl-
but what manners! To chew into each!

She was ungainly, low-caste, ill mannered and dirty,
but the god took the fruit she'd been sucking.


Why? She knew how to love.
She might not distinquish
splendor from filth
but she'd tasted the nectar of passion.


Might not know any Veda,
but a chariot swept her away-
now she frolics in heaven, esctatically bound
to her god.


The Lord of Fallen Fools, says Mira,
will save anyone who can practice rapture like that-
I myself in a previous birth
was a cowherding girl
at Gokul.

- Mirabai

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


To add to the beautiful contributions from BBB and SGB here is another one :

" I must devote myself to becoming a great saint. That sounds conceited, of course, when you consider how imperfect a creature I was, and still am, after eight years in religion. But this daring ambition of aspiring to great sanctity has never left me. I don't rely on my own merits, because I have not any : I put all my confidence in him who is virtue, who is holiness itself. My feeble efforts are all he wants; he can lift me up to his side and, by clothing me with his own boundless merits, make a saint of me."

.......From Autobiography of a Saint (Saint Therese of Lisieux.)


I am so very grateful to BBB for presenting this wonderful book to me.


With love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


Dear BBB and SGB,

Thanks for the inspiring pieces on William Blake. They are wonderful.

And the pieces on Jesus (By Saint Ignatius of Loyola) and The Plum Tasted by Mira Bai are superb. It is a pity that even after reading all these we get subdued every minute by arguments and consequent doubts.


With love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

" I must devote myself to becoming a great saint. That sounds conceited, of course, when you consider how imperfect a creature I was, and still am, after eight years in religion. But this daring ambition of aspiring to great sanctity has never left me. I don't rely on my own merits, because I have not any : I put all my confidence in him who is virtue, who is holiness itself. My feeble efforts are all he wants; he can lift me up to his side and, by clothing me with his own boundless merits, make a saint of me."

.......From Autobiography of a Saint (Saint Therese of Lisieux.)

Thank you for sharing that...its very beautiful.

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[BlackBillBlake]

Hare Krishna!


To add to the beautiful contributions from BBB and SGB here is another one :

" I must devote myself to becoming a great saint. That sounds conceited, of course, when you consider how imperfect a creature I was, and still am, after eight years in religion. But this daring ambition of aspiring to great sanctity has never left me. I don't rely on my own merits, because I have not any : I put all my confidence in him who is virtue, who is holiness itself. My feeble efforts are all he wants; he can lift me up to his side and, by clothing me with his own boundless merits, make a saint of me."

.......From Autobiography of a Saint (Saint Therese of Lisieux.)


I am so very grateful to BBB for presenting this wonderful book to me.


With love,

Kumar.
Ah - She is such an inspiration! :) Thanks for posting that quote, and also to SGB for the two pieces.

[Bhaskar]

Hari Om!

I am currently in Chicago enjoying the truly beautiful bhagavata kathamrita from the lips of my beloved guruji. And we havent even got to Sri Krishna yet, his birth shall be tomorrow! I am excited :)

krishna krishna bolo radhe shyaam!

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Hari Om!

I am currently in Chicago enjoying the truly beautiful bhagavata kathamrita from the lips of my beloved guruji. And we havent even got to Sri Krishna yet, his birth shall be tomorrow! I am excited :)

krishna krishna bolo radhe shyaam!
Dearest Bhaskar,

Glad to hear you are having a wonderful time! :)

My love to you and your dear guru...I hope your journey continues well...

*Peace and Love*

Nicole

[gdkumar]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hari Om!

I am currently in Chicago enjoying the truly beautiful bhagavata kathamrita from the lips of my beloved guruji. And we havent even got to Sri Krishna yet, his birth shall be tomorrow! I am excited :)

krishna krishna bolo radhe shyaam!
__________________
Jai Sri Ram .......From Bhaskar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hare Krishna!


Dear Bhaskar,


My pranam at the lotus feet of your Guru, Swami Tejomayanandaji. Wish you all the best during this time when you are with your Guruji. I have heard His explanations of the Gita on cassettes, it was wonderful. You are very fortunate to be in your Guruji's company, try to make the best of it.

You have already got to Krishna, look at your Guruji .......nothing will enter your ears .......no Gita-jnan.......no talks.......no surrounding existences.......only Krishna will be there.....Guru-Krishna, Krishna-Guru..... birthless.....deathless...ananda...chaitanyananda.

Guru kripahi kevalam...Guru kripahi kevalam...Guru kripahi kevalam.

Jai guru! Jai guru! Jai guru!



With love,

Kumar.

[Bhaskar]

Thank you for your lovely post, Kumar bhaiya!

Today's katha was especially charming, but the best part was singing the mahamantra with Guruji and I closed my eyes and I could see various forms of krishna flitting through my mind and tears filled my eyes and when I opened them, Guruji was before me...the blisss of that moment cannot be explained.

dhyana moolam gurormurtihi
pooja moolam gurorpadam
mantra moolam gurorvakyam
moksha moolam gurorkripa

The root of meditation is the Guru's form, the root of worship is the Guru's feet. The root of a mantra is the guru's words and the root of liberation is Guru's grace.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Thank you for your lovely post, Kumar bhaiya!

Today's katha was especially charming, but the best part was singing the mahamantra with Guruji and I closed my eyes and I could see various forms of krishna flitting through my mind and tears filled my eyes and when I opened them, Guruji was before me...the blisss of that moment cannot be explained.

dhyana moolam gurormurtihi
pooja moolam gurorpadam
mantra moolam gurorvakyam
moksha moolam gurorkripa

The root of meditation is the Guru's form, the root of worship is the Guru's feet. The root of a mantra is the guru's words and the root of liberation is Guru's grace.
:) :) It sounds absolutely divine (with no pun intended......well maybe a little one....lol)

[Bhaskar]

Vanshi vibhooshita kalat navaneeradabhat
peetambarat arunabimbaphalada netrat
poornendusundara mukhat aravindanetrat
Krishnat param kimapi tattvam aham na jaane.

- One whose hand is adorned by flute, whose complexion is like the newly formed clouds, who dons yellow clothes, whose lips are red like the fruit of Kundan; whose face is like the full moon, whose eyes are like lotus flower, I know no truth greater than that Lord Krishna.

[gdkumar]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vanshi vibhooshita kalat navaneeradabhat
peetambarat arunabimbaphalada netrat
poornendusundara mukhat aravindanetrat
Krishnat param kimapi tattvam aham na jaane.

- One whose hand is adorned by flute, whose complexion is like the newly formed clouds, who dons yellow clothes, whose lips are red like the fruit of Kundan; whose face is like the full moon, whose eyes are like lotus flower, I know no truth greater than that Lord Krishna.
_Jai Sri Ram_ ........From Bhaskar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hare Krishna!

Dear Bhaskar ,

That is beautiful, thank you.

Wish, I could paste that picture here.

Love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear Bhaskar,

Forgot to add about your experience while singing the Mahamantra with your Guruji. It is simply wonderful and is a clear sign of rush of bhakti coming to you at that time. If I am not wrong it is because of kundalini power rising due to your mind's one-pointedness at that time. Surrounding vibrations and converging thoughts of all help such occurence. This is why it is always good for a sadhaka to be in the company of like minded people.

Love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Hare Krishna!

If I am not wrong it is because of kundalini power rising due to your mind's one-pointedness at that time. Surrounding vibrations and converging thoughts of all help such occurence. This is why it is always good for a sadhaka to be in the company of like minded people.

Love,

Kumar.
Dear Kumar,

I agree with what you say about the awakening of Kundalini Shakti.
I also agree that the company of devotees, sadhakas, those on a similar path is very much to be aspired for. But it is not so easy to get that sort of association. I think it can only come through grace. And good karma. And for some rare souls, the path of solitute can be just as good.

Hare Krishna!

BBB.

[BlackBillBlake]

“You must accept the forms of the Lord. Do you know the significance of the Divine Mother in the form of Jagadhatri? It means that She supports the world. If She doesn’t support, doesn’t protect, the world would fall, it would perish. He who can tame the elephant of his mind, it is only in his heart that Jagadhatri dawns.”

http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/838/logo11gf.gif (http://www.imageshack.us/)

Om Sri Ramakrishnaya Namah!

[gdkumar]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Kumar,

I agree with what you say about the awakening of Kundalini Shakti.
I also agree that the company of devotees, sadhakas, those on a similar path is very much to be aspired for. But it is not so easy to get that sort of association. I think it can only come through grace. And good karma. And for some rare souls, the path of solitute can be just as good.

Hare Krishna!

BBB.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hare Krishna!

Dear BBB,

Thank you for the beautiful post and I fully agree with your views.

Grace comes through our Karma. This karma is very difficult to understand. Everything that we do is karma in our accounts but He does not seem to consider our physical acts (Good or bad). He only sees our minds and accounts only for what is in our minds. The Gita also says this.That is why chitta-suddhi is so much important. And this is why constant prayer in our minds can do the job easily for us. We should constantly pray for the company of His devotees, we should pray to save us from material noise and troubles. Slowly but surely He takes us away from every undesirable disturbances. But we must remember that we cannot escape trials and tests. Everybody went through these and we also have to go through these.

When we learn to love Him intensely then only He ensures that we don't neglect Him anymore and that we remain absorbed in His thoughts alone. He is more sentimental than any girl in love. Slightest negligence from us and He pulls on a long face more frequently with beads of pearls(Tears) in His eyes. It is so true!
A true devotee knows it very well that the Lord cannot tolerate tears in His devotee's eyes, the same way he also tries to reciprocate. He also tries to ensure at all times that his karmas (Mind's thoughts) should not make his Lord upset and cry for him.

To reach this level let us try to do only one thing, let us sing His name at all times to let Him know that we really love Him. He shall do the rest for us.

With love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Sri Ramakrishna Parhamhansa “You must accept the forms of the Lord. Do you know the significance of the Divine Mother in the form of Jagadhatri? It means that She supports the world. If She doesn’t support, doesn’t protect, the world would fall, it would perish. He who can tame the elephant of his mind, it is only in his heart that Jagadhatri dawns.”

http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/838/logo11gf.gif (http://www.imageshack.us/)

Om Sri Ramakrishnaya Namah! From BBB

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hare Krishna!

Dear BBB,

Oh, thank you so much for this beautiful piece of gem from Thakur.

Today I went to Dakshineswar temple(It is about 20KM from my house), it was so peaceful there ! We did our puja at the Kali temple and then sat in the living room of Thakur where He spent nearly 85% of His life-time. That room is meant for the people who want to sit for meditation there. Thakur's cot and bed are still kept there. It was a wonderful time there. And then this beautiful post of yours ! It is all His grace.

OM RAMAKRISHNAYA NAMAH!
OM RAMAKRISHNAYA NAMAH!
OM RAMAKRISHNAYA NAMAH!

Love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Dear Kumar,


Thanks for your kind and inspiring words!

Hare Krishna!

BBB.

[BlackBillBlake]

Two Paths of Yoga.




There are two paths of yoga, one of tapasya (discipline), and the other of surrender. The path of tapasya is arduous. Here, you rely solely upon yourself, you proceed by your own strength. You ascend and achieve according to the measure of your force. There is always the danger of falling down. And once you fall, you lie broken in the abyss and there is hardly a remedy. The other path, the path of surrender, is safe and sure. It is here, however, that the western people find their difficulty. They have been taught to fear and avoid all that threatens their personal independence. They have imbibed with their mother’s milk the sense of individuality. And surrender means giving up all that.
In other words, you may follow, as Ramakrishna says, either the path of the baby monkey or that of the baby cat. The baby monkey holds to its mother in order to be carried about, and it must hold firm, otherwise, if it looses its grip, it falls. On the other hand the baby cat does not hold to its mother, but is held by the mother and has no fear or responsibility; it has nothing to do but let the mother hold it and cry ma! ma!

Sweet Mother.
http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/8675/sweetmother7pz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us/)

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear BBB,

What a beautiful day it is !

Thank you so much for another very beautiful teaching from Sweet Mother and this teaching is the base of all knowledges and is the best for any fresh seeker.

Jai Sweet Ma! Jai Thakur!


Love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dearest Kumar and Andrew,

Thank you both for inspiring passages and beautiful words. :) They are very much appriciated. :)

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[half a hippie]

Two Paths of Yoga.




There are two paths of yoga, one of tapasya (discipline), and the other of surrender. The path of tapasya is arduous. Here, you rely solely upon yourself, you proceed by your own strength. You ascend and achieve according to the measure of your force. There is always the danger of falling down. And once you fall, you lie broken in the abyss and there is hardly a remedy. The other path, the path of surrender, is safe and sure. It is here, however, that the western people find their difficulty. They have been taught to fear and avoid all that threatens their personal independence. They have imbibed with their mother’s milk the sense of individuality. And surrender means giving up all that.
In other words, you may follow, as Ramakrishna says, either the path of the baby monkey or that of the baby cat. The baby monkey holds to its mother in order to be carried about, and it must hold firm, otherwise, if it looses its grip, it falls. On the other hand the baby cat does not hold to its mother, but is held by the mother and has no fear or responsibility; it has nothing to do but let the mother hold it and cry ma! ma!

Sweet Mother.
http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/8675/sweetmother7pz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us/)
Ahhh........
The mother

I studied in a school that was affiliated to the Aurobindo Ashram
hence from an early age I was exposed to Aurobindo 's teaching s

Glad to meet a someone who is follower of Sri Aurobindo's and the mother's teachings

just curious but have you been to the aurobindo ashram in pondicherry ?

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


Dear Half-a-hippie,

Welcome to this thread and the Forums.


Love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Ahhh........
The mother

I studied in a school that was affiliated to the Aurobindo Ashram
hence from an early age I was exposed to Aurobindo 's teaching s

Glad to meet a someone who is follower of Sri Aurobindo's and the mother's teachings

just curious but have you been to the aurobindo ashram in pondicherry ?
Hi - I haven't been to Pondicherry, but I am a great admirer of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother, as well as a number of other teachers and gurus.
It is great to have someone posting here who is familiar with Sri Aurobindo. I should think that you probably know a lot more than me about it all with your background.

[Bhaskar]

I have been to Auroville a couple of times. It is a very beautiful place. I remember meditating under the big banyan tree, sitting on the cool grass, it was very beautiful.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

:) Welcome indeed Half- a - Hippie! :)

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


It is a pity that so far I have not been able to go to Pondicherry. Whatever I know today about Rishi Aurobindo and Pondicherry is through book knowledge (From writings of the great master Himself, mahayogi Sri Krishnaprem, Dadaji, and Sweet Mother) and directly heard about Him from Ma Indira Devi(Who spent years with Him and saw Him very closely).

His was a great life, a life that tells us many things. It confirms the truth of destiny, the truth that God is very much there and that God is Sakar and Nirakar,both depending on how we look at Him and how we want Him. Rishi Aurobindo was one of the greatest yogis ever born on this earth. He was the picture of total divinity.

I am unfortunate that I missed to see Him and His great disciples, Sweet Mother and Dilip Kumar Roy(Dadaji).

Jai Sri Aurobindo! Jai Sri Aurobindo! Jai Sri Aurobindo!


With love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Yes - I fully agree Kumar - Sri Aurobindo's life was 'the Life Divine'.

He is among the greatest seers of all times and places.
This from 'Savitri':

"His was a spirit that stooped from larger spheres
into our province of ephemeral night.
A colonist from immortality.
A pointing beam on earth's uncertain roads,
His birth held up a symbol and a sign;
His human self like a translucent cloak
Covered the All-Wise who leads the unseeing world."

[gdkumar]

************************************************** *********
He is among the greatest seers of all times and places.
This from 'Savitri':

"His was a spirit that stooped from larger spheres
into our province of ephemeral night.
A colonist from immortality.
A pointing beam on earth's uncertain roads,
His birth held up a symbol and a sign;
His human self like a translucent cloak
Covered the All-Wise who leads the unseeing world." .....From BBB
************************************************** ********

Hare Krishna!

Dear BlackBillBlake,

It is wonderful to read the quote from SAVITRI, thank you.

Yes brother, there is absolutely no doubt that He is among the greatest seers of all times and places. The quoted gem from the ornamental Savitri tells us all about His unfathomable greatness.

Love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


The message of Savitri :


The Mighty Mother shall take birth in Time
And God be born into the human clay
In forms made ready by your human lives.
Then shall the Truth supreme be given to men...
The superman shall wake in mortal man
And manifest the hidden demi-god
Or grow into the God-Light and God-Force
Revealing the secret deity in the cave....
Annulling the decree of death and pain,
Erasing the formulas of the Ignorance....
Ruling earth-nature by eternity's law....

Life's tops shall flame with the immortal's thoughts,
Light shall invade the darkness of its base,

When superman is born as Nature's king
His presence shall transfigure Matter's world:
He shall light up Truth's fire in Nature's night,
He shall lay upon the earth Truth's greater law;
Man too shall turn towards the Spirit's call.

A divine force shall flow through tissue and cell
And take the charge of breath and speech and act
And all the thoughts shall be a glow of suns
And every feeling a celestial thrill...
Nature shall live to manifest secret God,
The spirit shall take up the human play,
This earthly life become the life divine.
........From Savitri by Sri Aurobindo.

The great Rishi said it all.


Love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


Dear Friends,


The following is part of a letter from Sri Aurobindo to His disciple Dadaji. Hope you will like it and will be inspired in your spiritual quest . This is taken from the book "Sri Aurobindo Came To Me " by Sri Dilip Kumar Roy(Dadaji).

" Dilip, I wrote to you all that in answer to your statement about your former idea of the Yoga that if one wanted the Divine, the Divine himself would take up the purifying of the heart and develop the sadhana and give the necessary experiences. I meant to say that it can and does happen in that way if one has trust and confidence in the Divine and the genuine will to surrender. For such a taking up involves one's putting oneself in the hands of the Divine rather than trusting to one's own efforts alone and this implies one's putting one's trust and confidence in the Divine and a progressive self-giving. It is in fact the principle of sadhana that I myself followed and it is the central part of Yoga as I envisage it. It is, I suppose, what Sri Ramakrishna meant by the method of the baby cat in his image. But all cannot follow that at once : it takes time fore them to arrive at it- it grows most when the mind and the vital fall quiet."


With love,

KUmar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Thanks Kumar for those two great quotes!

If anyone wants to check it out, the whole of 'Savitri'. Sri Aurobindo's visionary epic poem can be found along with commentary and readings at:

http://www.savitribysriaurobindo.com/

I also have on file some comments by Sweet Mother in which she gives some explanation of the opening part of the poem. If anyone would like to view these, pm me your email and I'll send them to you. I don't know if they are available online at present.


Hare Krishna!

[Kharakov]

For such a taking up involves one's putting oneself in the hands of the Divine rather than trusting to one's own efforts alone and this implies one's putting one's trust and confidence in the Divine and a progressive self-giving.Trust and confidence in the divine, with the realisation that the divine is teasing you half the time. :p

Youth of delight! come hither
And see the opening morn,
Image of Truth new-born.
Doubt is fled, and clouds of reason,
Dark disputes and artful teazing.
Folly is an endless maze;
Tangled roots perplex her ways;
How many have fallen there!
They stumble all night over bones of the dead;
And feel--they know not what but care;
And wish to lead others, when they should be led.

[ChiefCowpie]

************************************************** *******
Article of the Month - July 2005
************************************************** *******
http://www.exoticindia.com/article/ramakrishna
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Healing Through Faith and Love - A Case Study of Sri Ramakrishna
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It is a little known fact that actors in Bengali theatre, prior to entering the stage, bow down before the image of an unshaved, rustic-looking, middle-aged man, who is now unofficially the patron deity of all dramatic performance in the region. It becomes all the more intriguing when we realize that the gentleman in question was an unlettered individual who was never formally related to theatre and saw only a few plays during his
own lifetime.

Illustration: http://www.exoticindia.com/artimages/ramakrishna.jpg

The story of how this came to be about begins on February 28, 1844, with the birth of a boy named Girish at Calcutta. Girish lost his mother when he was eleven and his father at fourteen.
From his boyhood, he was a voracious reader but left school since he found the formal atmosphere detrimental to the process of learning. Without the restraining hand of a loving guardian, Girish's life drifted into drunkenness, debauchery, waywardness
and obstinacy. He had to earn his living through a succession of office jobs, which he found thoroughly boring. His spare time was devoted to the theatre, both as playwright and performer. He was, in fact, a bohemian artist. An early marriage proved unable to
stabilize his lifestyle and his wife passed away when he was thirty. Thus did he lose his mother in childhood, father in boyhood and wife in early manhood.

For the next fifteen years he worked in various capacities in different offices. He continued to indulge his appetites but also remained devoted to writing and acting. In his late thirties, he had already begun to be recognized as the father of modern
Bengali drama. He was single-handedly revitalizing the revival of theatre by producing a vast body of dramatic work in the Bengali language, and at the same time was molding the first generation of actors and actresses by leading from the front; in fact, such
was his versatility that he often played two or three roles in the same play. In 1883, the Star Theatre was opened in Calcutta with his money; this later developed into an active center for the evolution of Bengali drama.

In Girish's case, talent and licentiousness gradually achieved a state of peaceful co-existence. He himself sized up his personality as follows: 'from my early boyhood I was molded in a different way. I never learned to walk a straight path. I always
preferred a crooked way. From childhood it had been my nature to do the very thing I was forbidden to do.'

Illustration: http://www.exoticindia.com/artimages/girish.jpg

Skepticism

The course of Girish's tumultuous life continued till he read one day about a holy personality who was living in the famous shrine of Goddess Kali (Dakshineshwar) near Calcutta.

Illustration: http://www.exoticindia.com/artimages/dakshineswar.jpg

A skeptical Girish, without ever having met the sage, concluded that he was probably a fake. However, soon after he heard that the guru would be visiting his neighborhood and decided to see him firsthand. It was nearing sunset when Girish reached the
place, and lamps were being brought into the room. Yet the ascetic kept asking, "Is it evening?" This confirmed Girish's earlier opinion, 'what pretentious play-acting, it is dusk, lights are burning in front of him, yet he cannot tell whether it is evening or not' thus murmuring under his breath and not recognizing the saint's super conscious stage, he left the premises. Thus was the first impression of Girish Chandra Ghosh,
the father of modern Bengali theatre, regarding Sri Ramakrishna, the beloved saint and priest of one of India's most renowned Kali temples.

Illustration: http://www.exoticindia.com/artimages/paramhansa.jpg

Some years later, Girish saw the holy man again, at the house of a common acquaintance. In his own words: 'after reaching there, I found that the sage had already arrived and a dancing girl was seated by his side and singing devotional hymns. Quite a large gathering had assembled in the room. Suddenly my eyes were opened to a new vision by the holy man's conduct. I used to think that those who consider themselves param-yogis or gurus do not speak with anybody. They do not salute anybody. If strongly urged they allow others to serve them. But his behavior was quite different.

With the utmost humility he was showing respect to everybody by bowing his head on the ground. An old friend of mine, pointing at him, said sarcastically: "The dancing girl seems to have a previous intimacy with him. That's why he is laughing and joking with her." But I did not like these insinuations. Just then, another of my friends said, "I have had enough of this, let's go."' Girish went with him. He had half wanted to stay, but was
too embarrassed to admit this, even to himself.

Lessons in Humility

Only a few days after this, on September 21, 1884, the saint and some of his devotees visited the Star Theatre, to see a play based on the life of the great Vaishnava devotee Shri Chaitanya, authored and directed by Girish. The latter reminisced: 'I was strolling in the outer compound of the theatre one day when a disciple of Sri Ramakrishna came up to me and said: "The guru has come to see the play. If you will allow him a free pass, well and good. Otherwise we will buy a ticket for him." I replied: "He will not have to purchase the ticket. But others will have to." Saying this, I proceeded to greet him. I found him alighting from the carriage and entering the compound of the theatre. I wanted to salute him, but before I could do so he saluted me. I returned his greeting. He saluted me again. I bowed my head and he did the same to me. I thought this might continue forever, so I let him perform the last salute (which I answered mentally) and led him upstairs to his seat in the box.'

This was Girish's third meeting with Ramakrishna; but his intellect continued to refuse to accept another human being as a guru. This is how he reasoned: 'after all, the guru is a man. The disciple also is a man. Why should one man stand before another
with folded palms and follow him like a slave? But time after time in the presence of Sri Ramakrishna my pride crumbled into dust. Meeting me at the theatre, he had first saluted me. How could my pride remain in the presence of such a humble man? The
memory of his humility created an indelible impression on my mind.'

Three days later, Girish was sitting on the porch of a friend's house when he saw Ramakrishna approaching along the street: 'No sooner had I turned my eyes towards him than he saluted me. I returned it. He continued on his way. For no accountable reason my heart felt drawn towards him by an invisible string. I felt a strong urge to follow him. Just then, a person brought to me a message from him and said: "Sri Ramakrishna is calling you." I went. He was seated with a number of devotees around him. As soon as I sat down I asked the following question:

"What is a guru?"

"A guru is like the matchmaker who arranges for the union of the bride with his bridegroom. Likewise a guru prepares for the meeting of the individual soul with his beloved, the Divine Spirit." Actually, Sri Ramakrishna did not use the word
matchmaker, but a slang expression, which left a more forceful impression. Then he said: "You need not worry, your guru has already been chosen."

Girish, however, was a complex personality: a mixture of shyness, aggression, humility and arrogance. Although in one corner of his heart he did believe that Ramakrishna was the guru who he had hoped for, another part of his old self revolted against the idea. On December 14th of the same year, the playwright was in his dressing room when a devotee came up to inform him of Ramakrishna's arrival. "All right," Girish said rather haughtily, "take him to the box and give him a seat."

"But won't you come and receive him personally?" The devotee asked.

"What does he need me for? " said the annoyed Girish. Nevertheless, he followed the disciple downstairs. At the sight of Ramakrishna's peaceful countenance Girish's mood changed. He not only escorted the saint upstairs but also bowed down before
him and touched his feet. Later Girish said: 'seeing his serene and radiant face, my stony heart melted. I rebuked myself in shame, and that guilt still haunts my memory. To think that I had refused to greet this sweet and gentle soul! Then I conducted him
upstairs. There I saluted him touching his feet. Even now I do not understand the reason, but at that moment a radical change came over me and I was a different man.'

The Transforming Power of Faith

'Soon he started conversing with me. He spoke of several things while I listened longingly. I felt a spiritual current passing, as it were, through my body from foot to head and head to foot. All of a sudden Sri Ramakrishna lost outer consciousness and went into ecstasy, and in that mood he started talking with a young devotee. Many years earlier I had heard some slandering remarks against him, made by a very wicked man. I remembered those words, and at that moment his ecstasy broke and his mood changed. Pointing towards me, he said, "There is some crookedness in your heart." I thought, 'Yes indeed. Plenty of it - of various kinds.

" But I was at loss to understand which kind he was particularly referring to. I asked, "How shall I get rid of it?" "Have faith," Shri Ramakrishna replied.

Illustration: http://www.exoticindia.com/artimages/samadhi.jpg

On another occasion when Ramakrishna offered Girish a spiritual discourse, the latter stopped him short saying: "I won't listen to any advice. I have written cartloads of it myself. It doesn't help. Do something that will transform my life." Girish had a writer's skepticism about the authority of the written word.
Ramakrishna was highly pleased to hear his view and asked a disciple to sing a particular song whose words went like this:
"Go into solitude and shut yourself in a cave.
Peace is not there. Peace is where faith is,
for faith is the root of all."
At that moment Girish felt himself cleansed of all impurities and doubts: 'my arrogant head bowed low at his feet. In him I had found my sanctuary and all my fear was gone.'

Girish's faith however required constant strengthening; years of suffering and torment had damaged it severely. In a later meeting he again directed the question to Ramakrishna:

"Will the crookedness of my heart go?"

"Yes it will go."

Girish repeated the question and received the same reply. The process was replayed twice until one of the other disciples reprimanded Girish: "Enough. He has already answered you. Why do you bother him again?" The theatre veteran turned towards the
devotee to rebuke him since no one who dared criticize him ever escaped the lash of his tongue. But he controlled himself thinking: 'my friend is right. He who does not believe when told once will not believe even if he is told a hundred times.'

Venerating with Poison

One night, while Girish was in a brothel with two of his friends, he felt a sudden desire to see Ramakrishna. Despite the lateness of the hour he and his friends hired a carriage to Dakshineshwar. They were very drunk and everyone was asleep. But when the three tipsily staggered into Ramakrishna's room, he received them joyfully. Going into ecstasy, he grasped both of Girish's hands and began to sing and dance with him.

The dramatist thus described his feelings: 'here is a man whose love embraces all -
even a wicked man like me, whose own family would condemn me in this state. Surely, this holy man, respected by the righteous, is also the savior of the fallen.'

Girish, however, was not always so pleasant when drunk. Once at the theatre he publicly abused Ramakrishna, using the coarsest and most brutal words. All those present were shocked and advised the sage to sever all links with the playwright.

It is interesting to read what Girish himself says about this incident:

'Although I had come to regard Sri Ramakrishna as my very own, the scars of past impressions were not so easily healed. One day, under the influence of liquor, I began to abuse him in most unutterable language. The devotees of the master grew furious and were about to punish me, but he restrained them. Abuse continued to flow from my lips in a torrent. Sri Ramakrishna kept quiet and silently returned to Dakshineshwar. There was no remorse in my heart. As a spoiled child may carelessly berate his father, so did I abuse him without any fear of punishment. Soon my behavior became common gossip, and I began to realize my mistake. But at the same time I had so much faith in his love, which I felt to be infinite, that I did not for a moment fear that Sri Ramakrishna
could ever desert me.'

A common friend reminded Ramakrishna of the story of the serpent Kaliya, who, while battling Krishna, spewed enormous quantities of venom and said: "Lord you have given me only poison, where shall I get the nectar to worship you?" Similarly, Girish too had
worshipped Ramakrishna with abuse, which was in accordance with his nature.

Illustration: http://www.exoticindia.com/product/PE61/

Ramakrishna smiled and immediately asked for a carriage to go to Girish's house, where he found the latter repentant. Seeing the guru, Girish was overwhelmed. He said, "Master if you had not come today, I would have concluded that you had not attained that supreme state of knowledge where praise and blame are equal, and
that you could not be called a truly illumined soul."

On another occasion Ramakrishna had told Girish: "You utter many abusive and vulgar words; but that doesn't matter. It's better for these things to come out. There are some people who fall ill on account of blood poisoning; the more the poisoned blood finds an outlet, the better it is for them. You too will be purer by the day. In fact, people will marvel at you."

[ChiefCowpie]

Binding Through Freedom

One night, Girish drank himself into unconsciousness at the house of a prostitute. In the morning, he hastened to visit Ramakrishna. He was full of remorse but had not neglected to bring a bottle of wine with him in the carriage. On arriving at Dakshineshwar, he wept repentantly and embraced Ramakrishna's feet. Then, suddenly, he felt in urgent need of drink, and discovered, to his dismay, that the carriage had already driven off. But presently a smiling Ramakrishna produced not only the bottle, but Girish's shoes and scarf as well; he had privately asked a devotee to bring them from the carriage before it left.
Girish could not control himself; he drank shamelessly before them all - and, having done so, was again remorseful. "Drink to your heart's content" Ramakrishna told him, "It won't be for much longer." Girish said later that this was the beginning his abstention from intoxicating drinks. But the abstention was gradual; and this was certainly not the last time that Girish was drunk in his guru's presence. Sri Ramakrishna never forbade
Girish to drink because he knew that it takes time to change deep-rooted habits. Yet the silent influence of the guru's love worked wonders. In the playwright's own words: 'from my early childhood it had been my nature to do the very thing that I was forbidden to do. But Sri Ramakrishna was a unique teacher. Never for a moment did he restrict me, and that worked a miracle in my life. He literally accepted my sins and left my soul free. If any of his devotees would speak of sin and sinfulness, he would rebuke him saying, "Stop that. Why talk of sin? He who repeatedly says, 'I am a worm, I am a worm,' becomes a worm. He, who thinks, 'I am free,' becomes free. Always have that positive attitude that you are free, and no sin will cling to you."'

The Power of Attorney

One day Girish finally surrendered himself at the feet of Ramakrishna and asked him for instruction. "Do just what you are doing now," said the guru. "Hold on to god with one hand and to the material world with the other. Think of god once in the morning and once in the evening, no matter how much work you have pending." Girish agreed that this sounded simple enough. But he then reflected on his disorganized life, so much on the mercy of impulses and emergencies and realized that he did not even have fixed hours for eating and sleeping; how then could he promise to remember god? Making a false commitment was out of the question.

Ramakrishna, as if reading his mind said: "Very well, then remember god just before you eat or sleep. No matter what time of the day it is." Girish however, couldn't even make this simple promise, the fact being that any kind of self-discipline was
repugnant to him. "In that case," said Ramakrishna, "give me your power of attorney. From this moment on, I'll take full responsibility for you. You won't have to do anything at all."

Girish was overjoyed. This is what he had been wanting all the time; to be rid of responsibility and guilt forever. He readily agreed to the suggestion and thought to himself, 'now will I be as free as air.' He was however mistaken - as he soon found out.
By consenting, he had turned himself into Ramakrishna's slave. Whenever Girish indulged himself, he was forced to think of the tremendous moral burden he would be placing on his guru. In fact, he found it hard to not constantly think of Sri Ramakrishna
before performing any action.

The Garlic Container

One day he went to a brothel intending to spend the night there. At midnight however, he experienced an unbearable burning sensation all over his body and had to immediately leave the place to return home. Girish was reminded of the time when
Ramakrishna had compared him to a cup of garlic paste. Though such a container may be washed an umpteen number of times, it is not possible to get rid of the smell altogether. "Will my smell go?" Girish had enquired. "Yes it will. All offensive odor vanishes when the vessel is heated in a blazing fire." Was this the same heat that was tormenting him now? So wondered the playwright.

In later years he would tell young devotees that the way of complete self-surrender was actually much harder than the way of self-reliance and effort: "Look at me, I'm not even free to breathe, Sri Ramakrishna has taken full possession of my heart and bound it with his love."

The Guru as Mother (In Girish's Own Words)

'One day, when I arrived at Dakshineshwar, Sri Ramakrishna was just finishing his noonday meal. He offered me his dessert, but as I was about to eat it, he said: "Wait. Let me feed you myself." Then he put the pudding into my mouth with his own fingers, and I ate as hungrily and unself-consciously as a small baby. I forgot that I was an adult. I felt like a child whose mother was feeding him. But now when I remember how these lips of mine had touched many impure lips, and how my guru had fed me, touching them with his holy hand, I am overwhelmed with emotion and say to myself: "Did this actually happen? Or was it only a dream?" I heard from a fellow devotee that Sri Ramakrishna saw me as a little baby in a divine vision. And from then, whenever I was with him, I would actually feel like a child.'

Here it is also relevant to observe that though Girish had the company of his mother till the age of eleven, he only had a limited interaction with her. This restriction was due to an innate fear on the part of the parent that if she came near her children she would lose them; blaming herself for the many such bereavements she had already suffered before Girish.

The Vision of Bhairava

Long before he had met the dramatist, Sri Ramakrishna had a vision, which he described as follows: 'One day, when I was meditating in the Kali temple, I saw a naked boy skipping into the temple. He had a tuft of hair on the crown of his head, and was carrying a flask of wine under his left arm and a vessel of nectar in his right. "Who are you?" I asked. "I am Bhairava," he replied. On my asking the reason for his coming, he answered, "To do your work." Years later when Girish came to me I recognized that Bhairava in him.'

In fact, Ramakrishna had often chided his disciples who derided Girish's enchantment with the bottle, saying, "What harm can alcohol possibly cause to someone who embodies Bhairava himself?
None other than our beloved Mother Kali can ever judge or restrain him. We, who are her mere servants, may not even dare to do so. Girish is not a hypocrite, he is the same, inside and outside." The analogy with Bhairava is both apt and instructive. Bhairava was generated from the wrath of Shiva, when the latter was forced to listen to the vain boastings of another deity (Brahma). Having such provocative origins, holding within himself a simmering potential, Bhairava is thus visualized in Indian thought as an ambivalent, excitable and dangerous character, reflecting the emotions aroused at his birth, and even today is worshipped with offerings of alcohol in many shrines across India.

Illustration: http://www.exoticindia.com/product/HE11/

The bonding through sharing of food was further strengthened when one day Girish went to the house of a friend, who too was a devotee of Ramakrishna. He found the host cleaning rice. Now, the latter was a rich landlord with many servants, but nevertheless
he was performing this unaccustomed job himself. Girish was amazed and enquired of the reason. The householder replied: " The master is coming today, and he will have his lunch here. So I am cleaning the rice myself."

Girish was touched by this extraordinary devotion. He reflected on his own ability to be of such service to Ramakrishna. He returned home and lay on the bed thinking, 'Indeed, god comes to the home of those who have devotion like my friend. I am a wretched drunkard. There is no one here who can receive the master in the proper manner and feed him.'

Just then there was a knock on his door. Startled he jumped up. In front of him stood the master. "Girish I am hungry, could you give me something to eat?" There was no food in the house. Asking Sri Ramakrishna to wait, he rushed to a restaurant nearby and brought home some fried bread and potato curry. The food, coarse and hard, was much
different from what the frail guru's constitution permitted. Nevertheless, he relished it with visible joy and delight.

A Unique Solution

As time progressed and age took over Ramakrishna, his health began to deteriorate. On the advise of doctors he was moved outside the city where the air was felt to be better.

Illustration: http://www.exoticindia.com/artimages/healthhouse.jpg

An arrangement was made whereby the householder disciples contributed money for his treatment, food and rent. The younger, unmarried devotees, who later would establish the Ramakrishna Mission, managed the household, including the nursing and
shopping. After a while however, some of the householders felt that the expenditure was getting out of hand and demanded that a strict accounting system be maintained. The youngsters felt offended and decided not to accept any more money from them. When the situation reached a flashpoint, Girish came forward with a solution. He simply set fire to the account book in front of everybody. Then he told the householders to each contribute according to his means and that he would make up the shortfall. To the unmarried monks he said: "Don't worry. I shall sell my house if the need arises and spend every bit of the money for the master."

Whatever might have been the fate of Ramakrishna's physical well being, one thing was certain - Girish's healing was complete - and he later remarked in humor: 'Had I known that there was such a huge pit in which to throw one's sins, I would have committed many more.' It was this transformed soul who began the practice of paying homage to Sri Ramakrishna before the commencement of a theatrical performance.

===========================================
This article by Shri Nitin Kumar.
===========================================

Bibliography:

Blurton, T. Richard. Hindu Art: London, 1992.

Chetanananda, Swami. Ramakrishna As We Saw Him: Calcutta, 1999.

Chetanananda, Swami. They Lived with God (Life Stories of Some
Devotees of Sri Ramakrishna): Kolkata, 2002.

Isherwood, Christopher. Ramakrishna and His Disciples: Kolkata,
2001.

M. The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna (Tr. into English by Swami
Nikhilananda): Madras, 1996.

M. The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna 2 vols. (Tr. into Hindi by
Suryakant Tripathi Nirala): Nagpur, 2004.

Mishra, Krishanbihari. Ramakrishna Paramhamsa Kalpatru ki Utsav
Lila (Hindi): New Delhi, 2004.

Muller, F. Max. Ramakrishna His Life and Sayings: Kolkata, 2005.

Ramakrishna Sri. Sayings of: Madras, 2004.

[half a hippie]

All those who welcomed me thanks

I forgot that I had posted in this thread

and
billyblake I soon hope to start reading life divine again

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Not to change the subject...but I got this in my e-mail today and found it interesting. :)


Mark 4:21-34

And he said to them, "Is a lamp brought in to be put under a bushel, or under a bed, and not on a stand? For there is nothing hid, except to be made manifest; nor is anything secret, except to come to light. If any man has ears to hear, let him hear."

And he said to them, "Take heed what you hear; the measure you give will be the measure you get, and still more will be given you. For to him who has will more be given; and from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away." And he said, "The kingdom of God is as if a man should scatter seed upon the ground, and should sleep and rise night and day, and the seed should sprout and grow, he knows not how. The earth produces of itself, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear. But when the grain is ripe, at once he puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come."

And he said, "With what can we compare the kingdom of God, or what parable shall we use for it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when sown upon the ground, is the smallest of all the seeds on earth; yet when it is sown it grows up and becomes the greatest of all shrubs, and puts forth large branches, so that the birds of the air can make nests in its shade."

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Hare Krishna!


The message of Savitri :


The Mighty Mother shall take birth in Time
And God be born into the human clay
In forms made ready by your human lives.
Then shall the Truth supreme be given to men...
The superman shall wake in mortal man
And manifest the hidden demi-god
Or grow into the God-Light and God-Force
Revealing the secret deity in the cave....
Annulling the decree of death and pain,
Erasing the formulas of the Ignorance....
Ruling earth-nature by eternity's law....

Life's tops shall flame with the immortal's thoughts,
Light shall invade the darkness of its base,

When superman is born as Nature's king
His presence shall transfigure Matter's world:
He shall light up Truth's fire in Nature's night,
He shall lay upon the earth Truth's greater law;
Man too shall turn towards the Spirit's call.

A divine force shall flow through tissue and cell
And take the charge of breath and speech and act
And all the thoughts shall be aglow of suns
And every feeling a celestial thrill...
Nature shall live to manifest secret God,
The spirit shall take up the human play,
This earthly life become the life divine.
........From Savitri by Sri Aurobindo.

The great Rishi said it all.


Love,

Kumar.

Dearest Kumar,

This makes me think so much of the moon (esp. when it is full like it is tonight...)...everytime I see it...it is so beautiful that I am convinced that it must be the face of the Divine Mother. :)

This was a very beautiful poem...thank you for sharing it. :)

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Nice to see you again CCC!! :)

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[BlackBillBlake]

Dearest Kumar,

This makes me think so much of the moon (esp. when it is full like it is tonight...)...everytime I see it...it is so beautiful that I am convinced that it must be the face of the Divine Mother. :)

This was a very beautiful poem...thank you for sharing it. :)

*Peace and Love*
Nicole
Here is a short quote from 'The Mother' by Sri Aurobindo:

"Nothing can be here or elsewhere but what She decides and the Supreme sanctions; nothing can take shape except what She moved by the Supreme percieves and forms after casting it into seed in Her creating Ananda.
The Mahashakti, the Universal Mother, works out whatever is transmitted by Her transcendent consciousness from the Supreme and enters into the worlds that She has made; Her presence fills and supports them with the divine spirit and the divine all-sustaining force and delight without which they could not exist. That which we call Nature or Prakriti is only the outward executive aspect; She marshals and arranges the harmony of Her forces and processes, impels the operations of Nature and moves among them secret or manifest in all that can be seen or experienced or put into motion of life. Each of the worlds is nothing but one play of the Mahashakti of that system of worlds or universe, who is there as the cosmic Soul and Personality of the transcendent Mother. Each is something that She has seen in her vision, gathered into her heart of beauty and power and created in her Ananda."

[BlackBillBlake]

and
billyblake I soon hope to start reading life divine again
It's worth the effort. My advice would be to read only when you are calm and peaceful, and not too much at a time.

Hare Krishna!

[BlackBillBlake]

Dear Chief Cowpie -


Nice to see you're still around. Thanks for the item about Sri Ramakrishna :)

Hare Krishna!

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Here is a short quote from 'The Mother' by Sri Aurobindo:

"Nothing can be here or elsewhere but what She decides and the Supreme sanctions; nothing can take shape except what She moved by the Supreme percieves and forms after casting it into seed in Her creating Ananda.
The Mahashakti, the Universal Mother, works out whatever is transmitted by Her transcendent consciousness from the Supreme and enters into the worlds that She has made; Her presence fills and supports them with the divine spirit and the divine all-sustaining force and delight without which they could not exist. That which we call Nature or Prakriti is only the outward executive aspect; She marshals and arranges the harmony of Her forces and processes, impels the operations of Nature and moves among them secret or manifest in all that can be seen or experienced or put into motion of life. Each of the worlds is nothing but one play of the Mahashakti of that system of worlds or universe, who is there as the cosmic Soul and Personality of the transcendent Mother. Each is something that She has seen in her vision, gathered into her heart of beauty and power and created in her Ananda."
Dearest Andrew,

Thank you for this quote...it is absolutely beautiful... :)

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear CCP,

What a great relief and joy to have you back here with us again! Thank you, dear friend, for the wonderful Devotee-God(Guru) story of relationship. Girish(Girish Chandra Ghosh) is one of the greatest devotees ever known, his faith and trust in his Guru was exemplary. He was like one of those children who do all sorts of good and bad acts but at the end of the day cannot do without the mother. He can easily be one of the best teachers to tell one how one's faith and trust should be and how one should surrender to his Guru or God. All glory to Bhakta-sreshtha Girish, Thakur's beloved child.

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/2821/picturemathakur0594vs.th.jpg (http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picturemathakur0594vs.jpg)

GIRISH'S THAKUR - OUR THAKUR
SRI RAMAKRISHNA PARAMAHANSA


With love,

Kumar.






(http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picturemathakur0594vs.jpg)

[gdkumar]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This makes me think so much of the moon (esp. when it is full like it is tonight...)...everytime I see it...it is so beautiful that I am convinced that it must be the face of the Divine Mother. :) ....FROM SGBEAUTY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hare Krishna!

Dear SGBeauty,

What a serene and beautiful thought! Thank you for sharing with us. Lord's dear child, may be you are not aware that your thought has a wonderful similarity to that of Ma Saradamoni (Thakur Ramakrishna's consort and the mother of all beings).

Ma Saradamoni used to look up at the moon often(Particularly during full moon nights) and pray that she also becomes as divine as the moon.


http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4097/picturemathakur0589sh.th.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picturemathakur0589sh.jpg)

Ma Saradamoni - Our Mother.
Please click to get a bigger photo

She is garlanded with hibiscus flower. Pray we all can surrender at Her feet to become as divine as Her.

With love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dearest Kumar,

That is a beautiful picture...it looks like she is dwelling in a flower. :)

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

[SpliffVortex]

The last Krishna i saw at the airport carry sub machineguns. Must be a new trend. or Cows prices went up = im not sure.

[gdkumar]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vanshi vibhooshita kalat navaneeradabhat
peetambarat arunabimbaphalada netrat
poornendusundara mukhat aravindanetrat
Krishnat param kimapi tattvam aham na jaane.

- One whose hand is adorned by flute, whose complexion is like the newly formed clouds, who dons yellow clothes, whose lips are red like the fruit of Kundan; whose face is like the full moon, whose eyes are like lotus flower, I know no truth greater than that Lord Krishna.
_Jai Sri Ram_ ........From Bhaskar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hare Krishna!

Now I have that picture to paste here. Hope, it matches with the description to some extent.


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8018/picturemathakur0646cs.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picturemathakur0646cs.jpg)

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA
KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA
RAMA RAMA HARE HARE


With love,

Kumar.
.

[gdkumar]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Nothing can be here or elsewhere but what She decides and the Supreme sanctions; nothing can take shape except what She moved by the Supreme percieves and forms after casting it into seed in Her creating Ananda.
The Mahashakti, the Universal Mother, works out whatever is transmitted by Her transcendent consciousness from the Supreme and enters into the worlds that She has made; Her presence fills and supports them with the divine spirit and the divine all-sustaining force and delight without which they could not exist. That which we call Nature or Prakriti is only the outward executive aspect; She marshals and arranges the harmony of Her forces and processes, impels the operations of Nature and moves among them secret or manifest in all that can be seen or experienced or put into motion of life. Each of the worlds is nothing but one play of the Mahashakti of that system of worlds or universe, who is there as the cosmic Soul and Personality of the transcendent Mother. Each is something that She has seen in her vision, gathered into her heart of beauty and power and created in her Ananda." _........ FROM BBB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hare Krishna!

Dear Bill,

That quote from The Mother is beautiful, thank you. If we want we can get everything from Sri Aurobindo.


http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/4555/picturemathakur0572jf.th.jpg (http://img326.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picturemathakur0572jf.jpg)

MA SARADAMONI
THE UNIVERSAL MOTHER


Love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

:) Here is something from Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa:


The Universal Mother



"My Mother is the principle of consciousness.

She is akhanda satchidananda; indivisible Reality, Awareness, and Bliss.

The night sky between the stars is perfectly black. The waters of the ocean depths are the same. The infinite is always mysteriously dark. This inebriating darkness is my beloved Kali...."

"Reality with attributes, saguna Brahman, has been unanimously declared by the Vedas, Puranas, and Tantras to be Mahakali, the primordial energy of awareness. Her Energy is like the rays of the sun.

The original sun is attributeless Reality, nirguna Brahman, boundless Awareness alone. Proceed to the Original through its Radiance. Awaken to non-dual Reality through Mother Kali. She holds the key."




Sri Ramakrishna in "Great Swan", by Lex Hixon

[gdkumar]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
The Universal Mother



"My Mother is the principle of consciousness.

She is akhanda satchidananda; indivisible Reality, Awareness, and Bliss.

The night sky between the stars is perfectly black. The waters of the ocean depths are the same. The infinite is always mysteriously dark. This inebriating darkness is my beloved Kali...."

"Reality with attributes, saguna Brahman, has been unanimously declared by the Vedas, Puranas, and Tantras to be Mahakali, the primordial energy of awareness. Her Energy is like the rays of the sun.

The original sun is attributeless Reality, nirguna Brahman, boundless Awareness alone. Proceed to the Original through its Radiance. Awaken to non-dual Reality through Mother Kali. She holds the key."

Sri Ramakrishna in "Great Swan", by Lex Hixon
.................From BBB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

Hare Krishna!

Dear Bill,

Ah! That is wonderfully beautiful ! Thank you. That is what and how our Thakur is. People called Him illiterate. I wish I could be little like Him.

There were many people who saw Thakur as Lord Shiva and Ma Saradamoni as goddess Kali. Thakur himself worshipped Her as goddess Kali, the Universal Mother.

Jai Thakur! Jai Ma Saradamoni! Jai Ma Kali!

Love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vanshi vibhooshita kalat navaneeradabhat
peetambarat arunabimbaphalada netrat
poornendusundara mukhat aravindanetrat
Krishnat param kimapi tattvam aham na jaane.

- One whose hand is adorned by flute, whose complexion is like the newly formed clouds, who dons yellow clothes, whose lips are red like the fruit of Kundan; whose face is like the full moon, whose eyes are like lotus flower, I know no truth greater than that Lord Krishna.
_Jai Sri Ram_ ........From Bhaskar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hare Krishna!

Now I have that picture to paste here. Hope, it matches with the description to some extent.


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8018/picturemathakur0646cs.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picturemathakur0646cs.jpg)

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA
KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA
RAMA RAMA HARE HARE


With love,

Kumar.
.
That really does describe that picture....and what a beautiful picture it is...Jai Sri Krishna! :)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

"Then a priestess said, Speak to us of Prayer.

And he answered saying:
You pray in your distress and in your need; would that you might pray also in the fullness of your joy and in your days of abundance.

For what is prayer but the expansion of yourself into the living ether?
And if it is for your comfort to pour your darkness into space, it is also for your delight to pour forth the dawning of your heart.
And if you cannot but weep when your soul summons you to prayer, she sould spur you again and yet again, though weeping until you shall come laughing.
When you pray you rise to meet in the air those who are praying at that very hour, and whom save in prayer you may not meet.
Therefore let your visit to that temple invisible be for naught but ecstacy and sweet communion.
For if you should enter the temple for no other purpose than asking you shall not recieve:
And if you should enter into it to humble yourself you shall not be lifted:
Or even if you should enter into it to beg for the good of others you shall not be heard.
It is enough that you enter the temple invisible.

I cannot teach you how to pray in words.
God listens not to your words save when He Himself utters them through your lips.
And I cannot teach you the prayer of the seas and the forests and the mountains.
But you who are born of the mountains and the forests and the seas can find their prayer in your heart,
And if you listen in the stillness of the night you shall hear them saying in silence,
"Our God, who art our winged self, it is thy will that willeth
It is thy desire in us that desireth.
It is thy urge in us that would turn our nights, which are thine, into days which are thine also.

We cannot ask thee for aught, for thou knowest our needs before they are born in us:
Thou art our need; and in giving us more of thyself thou givest us all."

-The Prophet Kahlil Gibran

[BlackBillBlake]

Nice post Nicole :)

'The Prophet' is a great work - many have found inspiration in it.

[BlackBillBlake]

O my mind, dive deep, taking the name of Kali on your lips – dive into the deep waters of the heart, where the precious stones lie.

If you do not reach the treasure by diving three or four times, it does not mean that the sea of the heart has no treasures within.

Dive with all your might but once, O mind. In the sea of jnana, of Kulkundalini, lie pearls of peace.

By your bhakti and wishing for Shivayukti (union with Shiva), you will reach them.

In this sea, there are six alligators – of lust and the rest – always moving about looking for food.

Smear your body with the turmeric of discrimination. The smell of turmeric will keep them away from you.

Many are the precious gems that lie scattered at the bottom of the sea.

Says Ramprasad, “Jump into the sea and you shall get them.”

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1281/srkstudio0ut.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

[Bhumi47]

http://www.hipgallery.com/photopost2/data/500/johnnygrandpa.jpg Shree Krishna Govinda hare Muraare
He naatha Narraayana Vaasudeva
Gopaalaa Gopaalaa Devakee Nandana Gopaalaa

Its evening, the dun is setting, my work is done. I am free now to turn to you again, my love. Come to me. Let me feel your touch on my cheek. Hold me in your arms and let me look into your eyes, your laughing, teasing, glowing eyes. Let me come to you, don't make me wait. I melt into you. I call your name....



Jai Shri Krsna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda Shri Advaita Gadadhara, Sri Vasadi Gaura bhakta Vrnadahttp://www.hipgallery.com/photopost2/data/500/galaxy.jpg. Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare rama Rama Rama Hare Hare


Radhe Radhe Radhe Shyam,http://www.hipgallery.com/photopost2/data/500/raquinbow.jpg Govinda Radhe jai Shree Radhe
Govinda Radhe Radhe Shyam, Gopaala Radhe Radhe

[LaylaSkye_Loves_Geo]

Hare Krishna!!!

and also:
AUM
Sarve shaam Svasthi Bhavatu
Sarve shaam Shaantir Bhavatu
Sarve shaam Purnam Bhavatu
Sarve shaam Mangalam BhavatuÊ

Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah
Sarve Santu Niraa mayaah
Sarve Bhadraani Pashyantu
Maa Kashchid-dhuhkha Bhaag-Bhavet

Asato Maa Sadgamaya
tamaso Maa Jyothir-Gamaya
Mrityor-Maa Amritham Gamaya
Om shaanti shaanti shaantihi! Ê

~Peace
Layla

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Shree Krishna Govinda hare Muraare
He naatha Narraayana Vaasudeva
Gopaalaa Gopaalaa Devakee Nandana Gopaalaa

Its evening, the dun is setting, my work is done. I am free now to turn to you again, my love. Come to me. Let me feel your touch on my cheek. Hold me in your arms and let me look into your eyes, your laughing, teasing, glowing eyes. Let me come to you, don't make me wait. I melt into you. I call your name....


Mmm...this is one of my favourites. :) Thanks for posting it! :)

[Bhumi47]

Om Namah Shivaaya
Shivaaya namaha, Shivaaya Namah OM
Shivaaya namaha, namaha shivaaya
Shambhu Shankara Namah Shivaaya
Girijaa Shankara namah Shivaaya
Arunaachala Shiva Namah Shivaaya

I bow to the Soul of all. O bow to my Self. I don't know who I am, So I bow to you,
Shiva, my own true self. I bow to the teachers who loved me with Love. Who took care of me when I couldn't take care of myself. I owe everything to them. How can I repay them? They have everything in the world. Only my love is mine to give, but in giving I find that it is their love flowing through me back to the world....
I have nothing. I have everything. I want nothing. Only let it flow to you
my Love...

(Krishna Dasa)

[MollyBloom]

hare krishna is the eldest religion in the world. It came in the form of Vedas 5000 years ago. The goal is to love Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhea.d I mean not just saying that, but actually feeling that is the point. In fact, hare krishna isn't religion at all, because it doesn apply any dogmas on people. The only point is to find out by yourself, that you are not this material body and this world is temporary and full of threefold miseries :death, illness, old age.
the best method how to obtain the state, where you can love Sri Krishna is to chant mahamantra. it goes like this:
Hinduism is 5,000 years old. ISKCON is only about 40 years old.

[Bhaskar]

Molly, I love you.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Molly, I love you.

lol...

Oh this thread...I can't believe its back again...heheh....it rises and falls like the ocean...wow...learned so much on this thread...and met so many beautiful and interesting people...

Well to those who have brought it back with the sweetest Names of the Lord...thank you and welcome to it. :) Hope you and the thread stick around for a bit :)

*peace and love*
Nicole

[BlackBillBlake]

Hinduism is 5,000 years old. ISKCON is only about 40 years old.
Hinduism may well be older then 5,000 years. It's possible that the Veda stems originally from a period near the end of the last ice age.

ISKCON is a scam.

[ChiefCowpie]

wisdom is timeless...

hinduism dates back to the moslem invasion

[MollyBloom]

Molly, I love you.
I love you too.


Yes ChiefCowPie, wisdom and love are timeless.

I love all of you. Peace be with all of you. I hope you all have a happy day.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


Lord Jesus is all in one. He is my beloved Lord, He is my Krishna, He is my Thakur, He is my life-force, He is my breath, He is my tears, He is my joy,
He is each and every pore of my being.

Love to one and all who even today nail Him or worship Him,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

:)

[goo goo g'joob]

wisdom is timeless...

hinduism dates back to the moslem invasion
Nobody do like the Hindoo!

;)

[Kharakov]

Perhaps the Mantra is good for some sometimes, but it is not good for all at all times. I really don't feel it (in the way you do) since my experience (that God has provided me) is different from yours. For me, it feels silly. I love silly.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Hmm...I knew it was you when something about Montreal's new Hare Krishna site appeared in my mail box...I saw Montreal...and I was just like...ah...Pedro. :)

Thank you for thinking of me. :)

*peace and love*
Nicole

[BlackBillBlake]

I love silly.
I think that's pretty obvious.

[Kharakov]

I think that's pretty obvious.
Oh really?

[BlackBillBlake]

Oh really?
You just seem so uptight sometimes.

[Kharakov]

You just seem so uptight sometimes.
Just because I don't give blowjobs to hobos? I let my rats lick my teeth, although I use listerine afterwords..

[Kharakov]

Oooh... I didn't know feeling uptight felt sooooo good!!

[BlackBillBlake]

Just because I don't give blowjobs to hobos? I let my rats lick my teeth, although I use listerine afterwords..
original or coolmint?

[Kharakov]

Green colored equate actually. Equate is the Walmart generic brand. It's some minty variety, other than cool mint (cool mint is blue, that color I keep thinking about using in my comments).

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


Wish you all a very merry Christmas and a happy new year.

Love,

Kumar.

[evil lesbian]

mouthwash is mouthwash especially if you don't mind letting rats lick your teeth and blowing hobos

[themnax]

Hinduism may well be older then 5,000 years. It's possible that the Veda stems originally from a period near the end of the last ice age.

ISKCON is a scam.

i can do no better then to quote and repeat what is also my own understanding.

hinduism is a religeon. i'm not familiar with the term iskcon. is that an underlying name, title, guiding organization for the westernizing sect being refered to as hare krshna?

the krishna's are cool and harmless, at least the ones i met back in the day were. unlike jw's and laterday morons, if you steepled your hands and sad "nemeste" they would understand that you had heard their basic message and leave you alone or invite you to one of their house feasts, which was where i first discouvered kifer (liquid yogurt) and banana smoothies.

their 'gita as it is' i found less penitrable then more scholarly works on the same subject but the pichers were really cool.

=^^=
.../\...

[themnax]

mouthwash is mouthwash especially if you don't mind letting rats lick your teeth and blowing hobos

this is the first i hear of rats blowing hobos. is this some turn of phrase with which i am unfamiliar. is that like making bubbles when they fart?

i've never had pet rats nor observed them that closely.

this seems more like a random thought then one on phylosophy and belief, i'm a bit unclear as to how this relates to hinduism or any other sort of belief.

=^^=
.../\...

[BlackBillBlake]

i can do no better then to quote and repeat what is also my own understanding.

hinduism is a religeon. i'm not familiar with the term iskcon. is that an underlying name, title, guiding organization for the westernizing sect being refered to as hare krshna?

the krishna's are cool and harmless, at least the ones i met back in the day were. unlike jw's and laterday morons, if you steepled your hands and sad "nemeste" they would understand that you had heard their basic message and leave you alone or invite you to one of their house feasts, which was where i first discouvered kifer (liquid yogurt) and banana smoothies.

their 'gita as it is' i found less penitrable then more scholarly works on the same subject but the pichers were really cool.

=^^=
.../\...
ISKCON = International Society for Krishna Consciousness - the 'hare krishna' movement started in the west by Bhaktivedanta Swami (Prabhupada).
Harmless? Perhaps more harmless now than in previous decades, when major criminal scandals rocked the organization.
These days, it's all a bit of a mess.

'Bhagavad Gita as it is' is ok up to a point, but it is somewhat slanted in one direction only - the direction of the Gaudiya Vaishnava school, which represents only one limited aspect of Hinduism as a whole. And actually, only Prabhupada's own understanding of that.
The pictures and the food are both very nice, as is the music and the chanting of Hare Krishna.

It is important to remember that Gaudiya Vaishnavism is only one line within Hinduism - and others understand the Gita in different ways. The HK movement has no 'monopoly' on Krishna.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna !

It is harmless as long as ISKCON and other group followers concentrate only on "Krishna" or any other name that represents God and try to derive bliss from repetition of His name(Meditation on His name) in the way of doing japa like "HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE".

It becomes harmful and it creates endless problems the moment we deviate from this.... when we shift from the subject matter.


Love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

mouthwash is mouthwash especially if you don't mind letting rats lick your teeth and blowing hobos
And brainwash is brainwash.
I don't think myself that Kaharakov was being fully serious here.

But actually, listerine is listerine, and copies are not as good.

[BlackBillBlake]

Hare Krishna !

It is harmless as long as ISKCON and other group followers concentrate only on "Krishna" or any other name that represents God and try to derive bliss from repetition of His name(Meditation on His name) in the way of doing japa like "HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE".

It becomes harmful and it creates endless problems the moment we deviate from this.... when we shift from the subject matter.


Love,

Kumar.
It's just such deviation that's led to the troubles in Iskcon I think. Personality and power trips have interfered, and all sorts of other stuff which seems to be mainly a distraction from being focused on God.

BTW GD Kumar - nice to see you back on the forums :)

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!



"It is important to remember that Gaudiya Vaishnavism is only one line within Hinduism - and others understand the Gita in different ways. The HK movement has no 'monopoly' on Krishna."
..........From BlackBillBlake


When the whole creation is taken as a divine game then the Gita is not outside it. It is that lila which makes everybody understand the Gita in different ways. Even the given meanings are understood in different ways. It is true for all other religious books. When somebody gives some meaning and explanation (Right or wrong) even that we do not understand properly, forget understanding from the main shlokas.

But there is hope that it is not difficult or impossible to understand the right meaning or sense. Only way is to pray and read over and over again, His grace comes and miracle starts, suddenly the most difficult thing becomes most easy and you get a new simple meaning to everything that you knew to be different. You will know that you have now rightly understood because all conflicts in your mind will cease about that particular understanding.

Even Radha made a mistake about 'monopoly' on Krishna and later (After being taught a lesson by Krishna) realized that only true devotees can have monopoly on God. I am sure that even in HK some true devotees were there and are still there. Whoever truly loves Him, gets Him.

Love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

There's no doubt that your right there! It's all dependent on our own love and devotion, and our surrender to God. Labeling oneself as x y or z won't help that!
And there are no doubt good people in ISKCON. However - there are problems too, and divisions.

Here in Britain they're really becoming like a kind of priesthood ministering to the Hindu 'diaspora'. I recently saw a TV documentary which featured a young ISKCON devotee in the UK who wants to become a Bhramana. The programme also showed some footage of a wedding conducted by ISKCON for some obviously quite wealthy Indians. It was all very nice - elaborate ceremony, a multitude of Brahmanas officiating. A lovely couple. And it says something that they were happy to have it done by westerners who have adopted the culture, and not members of the hereditary caste.
But although I think this is perfectly ok, one has to see too the limitations.
It's not likely that many in the west will take to becoming 'hindus' in that sense.
And also, I wonder if this too isn't a digression from Srila Prabhupada's original idea for ISKCON in the west.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!



"Here in Britain they're really becoming like a kind of priesthood ministering to the Hindu 'diaspora'. I recently saw a TV documentary which featured a young ISKCON devotee in the UK who wants to become a Bhramana. The programme also showed some footage of a wedding conducted by ISKCON for some obviously quite wealthy Indians. It was all very nice - elaborate ceremony, a multitude of Brahmanas officiating. A lovely couple. And it says something that they were happy to have it done by westerners who have adopted the culture, and not members of the hereditary caste.
But although I think this is perfectly ok, one has to see too the limitations.
It's not likely that many in the west will take to becoming 'hindus' in that sense.
And also, I wonder if this too isn't a digression from Srila Prabhupada's original idea for ISKCON in the west."
...............From BlackBillBlake



Dear Bill,

Surely it is a digression from the original purpose and path.

I can clearly remember (Of course from books) what Srila Prabhupada's guruji, Srila Saraswati Siddhanta Maharaj had advised SP to do in the west.
The purpose was to spread God's name and love to the whole world. If I had understood properly the idea was not at all to highlight Krishna or Hinduism. The idea was not to establish Krishna as a superior God than all the other names. The idea was to tell the world more ways and means to love (If we do not or cannot naturally love) God and how we can see Him.

But alas! Things swiftly changed into a race of establishing supremacy over all other faiths and God loving groups. Even the very identity and quality of a Vaishnav was lost in that race. Humility is the best known quality and
identity of a Vaishnav. Unfortunately, I am afraid, this was the first thing that was lost in most of the HK devotees. Insolence, looking down upon all others who did/do not follow HK principles to the letters became the order of the HK groups.

Lord Chaitanya was the most proud man before enlightment came to Him but once He took Krishna's name He became the most transformed devotee and avatar with tears of krishna-prem in His eyes for the rest of His life. He was born an avatar, it was just the waiting for the time to come to manifest the Divine-lila to the world through Himself. But we are not Chaitanya and many of us are not having the past samskara, so we or the HK devotees should be more careful in their deeds and behaviours. People from HK group, who have received the blessings and grace, are definitely away from all such things.

I am sorry to all for such criticisms, this is not at all desirable. I pray to the Lord to forgive me. I only hope and pray that people (Bhaktas) look up at the Lord and try to build up the relationship of love and bhakti alone and that is possible only when we extend the same love and bhakti towards all around us in consideration that all are His manifestations. Otherwise, all japa, all chanting and all rituals become fruitless.

Love,

Kumar.

[Hari]

I'm reading the Bhagavatam.

[BlackBillBlake]

this thread reminds me of leviathan - it lurks in the deep, and every now and then, re-surfaces for another round.

[Bhaskar]

So Hari... what have you learnt so far?

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

ooo...Bhaskar...that's a pretty new avatar. :)

I agree with you BBB, this thread always pops up everyonce and awhile... lol...perhaps when it wants to tell us something...lol...

[Bhaskar]

Thank you! It is avalokiteshwara, but could so easily pass off as Krishna.... Today I went to a Thai Buddhist temple and I found a statue of the Buddha playing flute :) I guess he was expressing his past life vasanas as well :P

[BlackBillBlake]

ooo...Bhaskar...that's a pretty new avatar. :)

I agree with you BBB, this thread always pops up everyonce and awhile... lol...perhaps when it wants to tell us something...lol...
The I Ching says 'when a stalk of grass is pulled up, it brings with it others to which it is attached'

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Thank you! It is avalokiteshwara, but could so easily pass off as Krishna.... Today I went to a Thai Buddhist temple and I found a statue of the Buddha playing flute :) I guess he was expressing his past life vasanas as well :P
::nods:: It looks like this Thai carving of Krishna I saw at the MET. :) The Buddha is a cool dude...I'll bet he played some flute. ;)

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna !




Hare Krishna ! Hare Krishna ! Hare Krishna !

Love ! Love ! Love !


Mad lover, Kumar.

[jailmate]

prob played ah lot uv flute full time.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Hare Krishna !




Hare Krishna ! Hare Krishna ! Hare Krishna !

Love ! Love ! Love !


Mad lover, Kumar.

Hi Kumar! Nice to see you online!

:) Hare Krishna and Love indeed! :)

*peace and love*
Nicole

[Columbo]

In fact, hare krishna isn't religion at all, because it doesn apply any dogmas on people. The only point is to find out by yourself, that you are not this material body and this world is temporary and full of threefold miseries :death, illness, old age.If you are telling the truth about this, then why bother telling us since you said it is not dogmatic in the sense that it leaves it up to you to find out. It seems logically inconsistent to say it leaves the thinking up to you, but then you go and tell us what to think.

[BlackBillBlake]

The fact is that ISKCON or the Hare Krishnas are extremely dogmatic.

[umbra]

Hare Krishna !

Dear all,

Krishna is the icon of unconditional love of highest degree. When love obtains that intensity it is known as 'prem'. This prem does not discriminate, it does not see good or bad, it does not see religion, race or creed, it can not be bound by boundaries or limits. It envelops everything like what a deluge does.

Krishna tells us about that love and how to develop it. He never talked about any religion. He never criticizes us rather He gives us hopes and tells us that no matter how we are today we can definitely try and improve ourselves to get dissolved into the ocean of His divinity. He also tells us how we can do it.

With love............kumar.
There's really no love, only the devas and devis are having any love..the devotees are starved of love. They cant even enjoy sexual encounters in marriage LOL. hope they'll enjoy themselves in Golok, well i bet most believe they are correct but Never UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF DENIAL.

what a farce am sorry, i was a devotee for thee years , but to tell you the truth, they all are discriminative- i mean sexually , racially black devotees have the worst time and the Indians feel they own the temples but the sad truth is that ever since Nori Muster came out, and all those kids who were abused in ashrams in the name of KRISHNA i too believe they are liars, at least i was lied to, made to make garlands cajoled into acts they said were religious but were just a form of control, brainwashed by chanting mind numbing incantations, i nearly very stupidly left my family because Krishna was calling me!!! i suffered mental abuse and all sorts of stereotyping women do get in pariarchal organisations.

lies lies lies... gurus are just like anybody else they steal , lie ,cheat , are peadophiles , raketeers, i wont mention much , just ask any ex member who has been deprogrammed.

but the truth is this, there lots of good people losing their lives and refraining from enjoying this life because they have to pepare to go to Golok Vrindavan, i wonder if they'll ever make it!!! Anyway i saw lots of gullible devotees especially the caucasian ones who live like slaves -well nearly
considering that they have donated all their monies and resources- to help spread Krishna Consciousness. Many have ended up depressed and suicidal but have nothing left to back to: well because Krishna is testing their faith.
Check out the stats and know what am saying... the numbers are dwindling.

Believe me, the Vaishnava faith really isnt the oldest faith, ask any Chassidim which year this is...really and the relativismof Krishna being every other avatar is just to get people to make up the numbers. i bet this is an Asiatic Hindu conspiracy to rule the world.


PEACE AND LOVE

FREE YOUR MINDS

[ChiefCowpie]

umbra, gdkumar use of devotee or vaishnava is used in a non iskcon/gaudiya matha sense................

[Jedi]

Believe me, the Vaishnava faith really isnt the oldest faith, ask any Chassidim which year this is...really and the relativismof Krishna being every other avatar is just to get people to make up the numbers. i bet this is an Asiatic Hindu conspiracy to rule the world.
umbra, gdkumar use of devotee or vaishnava is used in a non iskcon/gaudiya matha sense................Like he said, "vaishnavas" are seperate from what you call "ISKCON", quite frankly any sane man including I, have no love for ISKCON because all we hear are problems from that place. However, this does not mean you can take it out on the religion of vaishnavism, go fight the cults and organizations like ISKCON and leave good people and God to their own religions thank you very much.

[BlackBillBlake]

I have yet to meet a Vaishnava in the west without some connection to ISKCON. Even if it's just that they regard Prabhupada's books as authoritative.

Umbra isn't he first to become disillusioned with this organization, and won't be the last.

[Jedi]

I have yet to meet a Vaishnava in the west without some connection to ISKCON. Even if it's just that they regard Prabhupada's books as authoritative.

Umbra isn't he first to become disillusioned with this organization, and won't be the last.
Maybe there is some truth in what you say BBB, I never met an ISKCON member in India when i was there...maybe its because most of the people are in south are SriVaishnavas, and they not part of Gaudiya sampradaya... to be honest BBB, i only heard of chaitanya and ISKCON/prabhupada in USA. Maybe they are famous in Bengal or something.

[Yakima]

Hare Krishna! :)

[Columbo]

Hare Krishna made one good song and then people forgot about him until recently. A few years ago you couldnt go anywhere without seeing loads of people with bald heads singing the Hare Krishna song and banging a tambourine while smiling inanenly and even suspiciously at people - Now the song doesnt even get airtime on the golden oldies radio show. tch! its all rap songs and guitar bands now - still I bet Krishnas worth a few $$$$$$$$$ and has a mansion in California from the royalties and good luck I say his song was almost on a par with Gimme some Truth by The great and spiritual master John Lennon

[spook13]

Hare Krishna made one good song and then people forgot about him until recently. A few years ago you couldnt go anywhere without seeing loads of people with bald heads singing the Hare Krishna song and banging a tambourine while smiling inanenly and even suspiciously at people - Now the song doesnt even get airtime on the golden oldies radio show. tch! its all rap songs and guitar bands now - still I bet Krishnas worth a few $$$$$$$$$ and has a mansion in California from the royalties and good luck I say his song was almost on a par with Gimme some Truth by The great and spiritual master John LennonHare Krishna isn't a person, it's a mantra, which means sacred chant.

Krishna isn't a human being; per Vedic (Hindu) religious tradition he's considered to be either God himself or an incarnation of God. As either of these, he would be worth more than some big bucks and a mansion in CA.

John Lennon was arguably a great musician whose music had some spiritual influences, but by Vedic definition, he wasn't a spiritual master.

[BlackBillBlake]

Hare Krishna isn't a person, it's a mantra, which means sacred chant.

Krishna isn't a human being; per Vedic (Hindu) religious tradition he's considered to be either God himself or an incarnation of God. As either of these, he would be worth more than some big bucks and a mansion in CA.

John Lennon was arguably a great musician whose music had some spiritual influences, but by Vedic definition, he wasn't a spiritual master.
I can well imagine John Lennon turning in his grave at many of the things which have been said about him since his death. To think a man who wrote and sang:

'I don't believe in yoga/I don't believe in Gita'

was a spiritual master in the vedic sense is obvious nonsense.

John was more of a humanist the way I hear his songs - 'Imagine' for example begins 'imagine there's no heaven' - so clearly it isn't a religious song, but perhaps it is saying that too often, religion is simply a cause of trouble in the world. If the Islamic suicide bomber 'imagined there's no heaven', would they still be so eager to destroy their own existence?

[Bhaskar]

Imagine there's no heaven... vedanta at her best.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna !


From Umbra.....

There's really no love, only the devas and devis are having any love..the devotees are starved of love. They cant even enjoy sexual encounters in marriage LOL. hope they'll enjoy themselves in Golok, well i bet most believe they are correct but Never UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF DENIAL.
what a farce am sorry, i was a devotee for thee years , but to tell you the truth, they all are discriminative- i mean sexually , racially black devotees have the worst time and the Indians feel they own the temples but the sad truth is that ever since Nori Muster came out, and all those kids who were abused in ashrams in the name of KRISHNA i too believe they are liars, at least i was lied to, made to make garlands cajoled into acts they said were religious but were just a form of control, brainwashed by chanting mind numbing incantations, i nearly very stupidly left my family because Krishna was calling me!!! i suffered mental abuse and all sorts of stereotyping women do get in pariarchal organisations.
lies lies lies... gurus are just like anybody else they steal , lie ,cheat , are peadophiles , raketeers, i wont mention much , just ask any ex member who has been deprogrammed.
but the truth is this, there lots of good people losing their lives and refraining from enjoying this life because they have to pepare to go to Golok Vrindavan, i wonder if they'll ever make it!!! Anyway i saw lots of gullible devotees especially the caucasian ones who live like slaves -well nearly
considering that they have donated all their monies and resources- to help spread Krishna Consciousness. Many have ended up depressed and suicidal but have nothing left to back to: well because Krishna is testing their faith.
Check out the stats and know what am saying... the numbers are dwindling.
Believe me, the Vaishnava faith really isnt the oldest faith, ask any Chassidim which year this is...really and the relativismof Krishna being every other avatar is just to get people to make up the numbers. i bet this is an Asiatic Hindu conspiracy to rule the world.
PEACE AND LOVE
FREE YOUR MINDS

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x

Dear Umbra,

Yes, the truth hurts and your facts are painful, too. I am so very much sorry reading your post.

Umbra, dear, I would only like to add a few points here. You had gone out for Krishna or God or Golokdham but clearly landed at a wrong place. So, out of frustration and rage all Gurus have become bad(Cheats, thieves and liers), chanting of Mantra has become mind numbing incantations! Calm down now, please.

To start speaking a baby takes two years, to go into college a student takes twelve years, for attaining motherhood a girl takes thirteeen years....... for Krishna, God or self-realization you gave only three years and got all your answers that everything is false !

Dear, there is nothing wrong with the Vaishnavas or even with the ISKCON. It is just unfortunate that you went to the wrong place. There are good and bad everywhere in all sects at all places. No matter where you go for what purpose, this is true that you will find co-existence of good and bad. That is how the balance is maintained. And count your own home and family also to know this truth. How many places you are going to leave ? Right people are there everywhere, even in today's ISKCON. I believe this. There are Gurus who will make you cry for your present remarks. Do not need to go too far, you can interact with the members like Spook, BlackBillBlake, Bhaskar, Saving Garden Beauty, CCPie and so many others here itself in this forum. They are no less than any Guru. And some of them have had connections with Iskcon. And what is this Vaishnava all about ? There are only two groups... God and devotee, please do not try to give any other name. Devotees are with 'gunas' and become different with different names. When they go beyond all 'gunas' they attain oneness with God. So please try to go above all analysis of good and bad and centre your focus on God alone.

Breathing in and out does not cast any spell of incantation, it is an indispensable act for maintaining this material lfe. Same way chanting or meditating on His name becomes indispensable for maintaining spiritual life.

In another thread, Gravity said that prayer is a superstition and there is no truth in it. I am sure, it is not right. If you are a Christian sit at the feet of Lord Jesus, cry and pray that you are taken to the right place and right people. Your honest and sincere prayer will be heard and please believe me you will soon change all your opinions.

Your post was very painful and I thought we should write to you. Only hope and pray that you get back your mental peace and power to forgive all.

With lots of love,
Kumar.

[sentient]

Hare Krishna is a lie or a liar
anyone who says that there is anything deeper to be had from chanting and meditation is a fool - the spiritual is merely an incomplete answer to the explanations of what are essentially scientific problems

[OnlyOne]

krishnah sukz dik and jane.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna !


Dear Sentient,

Thanks for your comments. It could only be better and acceptable if you had read, understood or practised anything before writing. Dear, please do not say or do anything today just for the sake of saying something for which you will be sorry and embarrased tomorrow.

With love,
Kumar

[BlackBillBlake]

Hare Krishna is a lie or a liar
anyone who says that there is anything deeper to be had from chanting and meditation is a fool - the spiritual is merely an incomplete answer to the explanations of what are essentially scientific problems
Actually, there is probably a scientific basis for repetitive chanting having a positive effect. It is known that certain types of activity promote the production of one set of brain responses and another thing a different alteration in brain function.
In general, repetitive actions, whether it's chant or dance or whatever have been used by most cultures for millenia to produce changes in consciousness, from the Native American Shaman, to the Hindu Sadhu to the Buddhist monk. Even today's electronic dance music.

As science investigates these things, more is being learned about the extent to which they can and do cause actual physical changes in the brain/cns.

[spook13]

Dilip, it's good to see you back on the forum! I had been wondering how you were...welcome home.

Bill...per my personal experience, chanting the Hare Krishna mantra in disciplined fashion will truly produce a state of detachment from the mind and transcendental insight. It's a bonafide meditational practice...but it's my problem for not being disciplined enough about it on a longterm basis.

Hare Krishna is a lie or a liar
anyone who says that there is anything deeper to be had from chanting and meditation is a fool - the spiritual is merely an incomplete answer to the explanations of what are essentially scientific problems
You've obviously never lifted a pinky toward the spiritual direction...if you had, you wouldn't have posted this. The record of thousands of years worth of spiritual "fools" from all over the world and every culture attest to the existence of God and the transcendental dimension.

[BlackBillBlake]

Bill...per my personal experience, chanting the Hare Krishna mantra in disciplined fashion will truly produce a state of detachment from the mind and transcendental insight. It's a bonafide meditational practice...but it's my problem for not being disciplined enough about it on a longterm basis.
.
I think we just have to do what we can - the fact that you say it does produce the state of transcendence etc shows that whatever efforts we make in this direction bring a result.
My own 'failing ' is that perhaps too many different things compete for my attention. But I still regard the Hare Krishna mantra as a valuable thing - in fact, it is something which anyone can easily put to the test, in an experimantal manner. All it requires is the will, and sincerity, plus an open minded attitude free of both religious and scientific prejudice.

But - and an important but - nothing is for everyone. Whilst a given practice may be effective in some cases, in others something else may be more appropriate. That is precisely one of the stregnths of Indian philosophy - it avoids the narrow 'one size fits all' mentality which seems to characterize western religions, and allows for a plurality of different approaches suited to different types of human being.

[Bhaskar]

Hare Krishna is a lie or a liar
anyone who says that there is anything deeper to be had from chanting and meditation is a fool - the spiritual is merely an incomplete answer to the explanations of what are essentially scientific problems
If you'd even a fleeting acquaintance with scientific theories, you would know that it has been proved decades ago that science can only go so far and no further. That is the clear evidence of Heisenburg's proof.

[BlackBillBlake]

If you'd even a fleeting acquaintance with scientific theories, you would know that it has been proved decades ago that science can only go so far and no further. That is the clear evidence of Heisenburg's proof.
Nonetheless, I think science can help to show that certain practices do have a definite and measurable physical effect. Myself, I don't see science and an open minded spirituality as at all at odds with each other. I leave that to fundies and creationists on one side and strict materialists on the other.

[Bhaskar]

I don't disagree with that.

But I have only contempt for those that say that science is the answer to all our problems.

It can be argued that it has done at least as much harm as good for mankind, if not more. And it is 'science' that has brought us to the point of planetary crisis due to pollution and wanton exploitation of resources.

People argue that religion causes wars. But it is science that arms the violent minded to enable them to cause maximum misery to maximum people in minimum time.

[BlackBillBlake]

Pure science is really only knowledge. I think though I'd agree with you up to a point if we substitute the word 'technology' - at least the fossil fuel based technologies that threaten the balance of the global climate today.

I also agree that science isn't the answer to everything, but within certain boundaries it is very useful.

I am generally in agreement with R.Buckminster Fuller, who thought that with what he calls 'more for less' technologies, and through design based on 'big picture' thinking, we now have, for the first time in recorded history, the potential to look after everyone's material needs in a harmonious way, and create an enduringly successful and sustainable future.

More on this here :
http://www.bfi.org/

[umbra]

there are people whose lack of foresight and whose sense of judgement can easily be manipulated no matter how smart or intelligent.but surely if they could only believe so much then anything's possible.
its a known fact that sometimes when you are lied to too often you'll simply believe whatever's in the offing until another truth liberates your imprisoned mind.
technically science is good, without science we'd still be in caves there's really no need to philosophise about the inherent badness of science , i guess its just the negative projection -the potentiality for evil in most people- that makes everyone suspicious of any new scientific development. In life there are three choices
1to do good
2to do evil
3to do nothing
so life and spirituality can be classified as whatever you make it. however ''dark vs rosy'' are to narrow and ideal in Krishna consciousness.


"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet

[BlackBillBlake]

'To do nothing' isn't a choice. As long as there is life in the body, we have no choice but to act, unless we adopt a extreme version of quietism and just lie down until we die. Even then, we'd still be 'doing'.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna !



From Umbra.....

so life and spirituality can be classified as whatever you make it. however ''dark vs rosy'' are to narrow and ideal in Krishna consciousness.



Sorry, not understood at all.

Love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

My dearest friends who have dwelled on this thread (and in the Hinduism forum) since its creation,

I indeed think (and can surely say) that it was the Lord's Divine Grace that lead me away from my studies for my midterm tonight and instead drew me to this thread (just when I was looking for something quickly on the forum)... I started to read it from the beginning...

Lately I've been having a hard time with faith... I can't go into details its just that... well...I've been having a hard time and I have been praying so hard for help...and by the Lord's Divine Grace...I began to read through my own spiritual journey...through the workings of this thread and the devotees of Lord Krishna... most of you some of my closest friends on this spiritual journey...and how you had helped me to learn to Love Him more and carefully took me under your wings and showed me the path to opening my heart to His love. Each step re-taken in this archive of the past reminded me of all I Loved and the Glory of His Name, His Lotus Feet, His Lotus Eyes... His beautiful flute... and ever picture of His made me draw back...and cry... How I had missed Him! Though He just got hidden...I can't imagine how I let that happen...but there He was ...beautiful and real and whole within my being...and each sweet word of bhakti you each spoke brought me back to His Grace... a place I had been closing myself off to for some time... parrotting but not lost in its Intoxicating Bliss. So Jai Sri Krishna... if I do not sleep this night (for I still have to study)...it will be the longest most joyous night perhaps... for each waking moment will be accompanied by thoughts of Him... and I have a lot of catching up to do... But I just wanted to post here, my dear friends, to express my gratitude to all of you. For continuously helping me, for being patient with me, for taking my misunderstandings, and for giving me your love... I could not ever ask for more... I have been thus blessed by His Divine Grace... as Ma Indira Devi says, "Is it not wonderful?" Thank you all once again... I hope that I may give to you always all the support and love you have given me over these last three years in my journey... May I always serve you all as a humble servant and may we always serve His beautiful Lotus feet.

Hari Om.

Peace to you all always.

Peace and Love,
Nicole

[BlackBillBlake]

:sunny:


love.

[10000 lighr years]

hallie rama krishna krishna.ican still see them in my mind.just a good part of many.they were all over the streets only hoping the spread wellness.Hare Krishna !



From Umbra.....

so life and spirituality can be classified as whatever you make it. however ''dark vs rosy'' are to narrow and ideal in Krishna consciousness.



Sorry, not understood at all.

Love,

Kumar.

[Jedi]

My dearest friends who have dwelled on this thread (and in the Hinduism forum) since its creation,

I indeed think (and can surely say) that it was the Lord's Divine Grace that lead me away from my studies for my midterm tonight and instead drew me to this thread (just when I was looking for something quickly on the forum)... I started to read it from the beginning...

Dear Nicole,
Indeed you are progressing quite well in your spiritual path, hehe I will catch up to you, i still lag behind :& however, it is not wise to neglect or get away from one's obligations when one tries to think about the lord. Please understand that we all have two important activities in life, one is service to the lord, the other is the development of our career. Both are important, and it is always good to concentrate on midterms when they are coming up. Doing what we do, which is study for our midterms and concentrating in class and understanding and showing interest in the material, giving our best shot to get the top score works in sinc with our service to the Lord. doing all those things is our service to the lord. Hence, please do not come here when you have a midterm or homework due :D .

Sincerely,
Jedi.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I appriciate your concern Jedi...but I promise you that a) I wasn't really studying anyway regardless of whether I came on here...that night it just wasn't happening (it was my last of a long week of midterms.). Also, I did find time to prepare a bit more before the class and did much better actually on that midterm than the ones I took in the middle of the week that I studied nutty for.... I promise. :)

[BlackBillBlake]

we all have two important activities in life, one is service to the lord, the other is the development of our career. .
Only 2? Yet both these are more or less selfish goals. We want a good job to get money and be secure, we want to know god to go off to heaven.
How about the duty of care we have towards other humans? Animals? The earth itself?

[Jedi]

Yes that comes with our moksha, it is said BBB , that trying to change the world without our moksha is like a blind man trying to lead other blind men BBB. I am much comfortable doing that once I get my sight.

[BlackBillBlake]

Yes that comes with our moksha, it is said BBB , that trying to change the world without our moksha is like a blind man trying to lead other blind men BBB. I am much comfortable doing that once I get my sight.
What if that doesn't happen until you are an old man? Or if it never happens?
Isn't it better to use our own best intelligence and do what we can?
Maybe moshka only comes to those engaged in trying to work for something beyond their own interest.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

yeah...I think just as you can both work to establish yourself (careerwise) AND be on the spiritual path...you can help others. Perhaps you need to be more towards the enlightened way of things to perform spiritual help to others...but corpreal works.. like volunteering and all that...we all can and SHOULD do. :) Every little bit, no matter how small...even if we smile at someone in the street...helps.

[BlackBillBlake]

It occurs to me that my sig - the Buckminster Fuller quote is relevant here.


In some extreme versions of various spiritual paths, I get the impression that they don't really care much about the future of humanity on this planet. The focus is more on simply getting out of the round of existence, and the world is seen as basically an bad place we've 'fallen' into.
"the miserable and temporary material manifestation" to use a quote from HK literature.
This is the type of philosophy I've come to despise and to reject.

[Jedi]

What if that doesn't happen until you are an old man? Or if it never happens?
Isn't it better to use our own best intelligence and do what we can?
Maybe moshka only comes to those engaged in trying to work for something beyond their own interest.Yes that might seem to be a problem, but who said that you can't change the world when you become old , or after you die?

I don't mean that we cannot help the poor, join the peace corps or help the red cross without being enlightened, ofcourse we can do little things, but to make a big long lasting change for the betterment of all people can only happen when one is liberated. It is my personal opinion that if one tries to make a change in the world without gaining moksha when he can see clearly, he will mess the world up more than help it.

[BlackBillBlake]

So who, having first attained moshka, has then gone on to help the world?


By 'help the world' I don't mean help people get liberated, or come up with some new religious teaching, but actually done something concrete to change conditions here for the better.

Marie Curie's work on x-rays for example, has no doubt helped improve conditions of life here for counteless millions. But Mme. Curie was no illuminati - just a well intentioned scientist.

[Jedi]

It occurs to me that my sig - the Buckminster Fuller quote is relevant here.


In some extreme versions of various spiritual paths, I get the impression that they don't really care much about the future of humanity on this planet. The focus is more on simply getting out of the round of existence, and the world is seen as basically an bad place we've 'fallen' into.
"the miserable and temporary material manifestation" to use a quote from HK literature.
This is the type of philosophy I've come to despise and to reject.
It is called detachment BBB, we don't care because there is nothing to care about. Truth is pretty funny, but imagine if everyone was kind, generous, and loving to his fellow man, there wouldn't be wars and would not certainly be any famine, poverty or physical suffering in this world. Hence, without having these qualities in everyone, trying to "save" the world would simply mean that you will be fighting the people who are in power and abusing that power, but that is a never ending battle. There will always be someone else who comes into that power position and abuses it. Ha! it might even be that the one who fights for the freedom of people could be the one who later on abuses them later on. We need to understand that "changes" to this world too are simply illusory notions. We can make changes, but such changes can be undone by some one later on. The best way to stop these things ofcourse is trying to get them in contact with their real nature- the divine supreme lord. Then, everyone will stop all these atrocities, ofcourse all of this is MHO.

[BlackBillBlake]

It is called detachment BBB, we don't care because there is nothing to care about. Truth is pretty funny, but imagine if everyone was kind, generous, and loving to his fellow man, there wouldn't be wars and would not certainly be any famine, poverty or physical suffering in this world. Hence, without having these qualities in everyone, trying to "save" the world would simply mean that you will be fighting the people who are in power and abusing that power, but that is a never ending battle. There will always be someone else who comes into that power position and abuses it. Ha! it might even be that the one who fights for the freedom of people could be the one who later on abuses them later on. We need to understand that "changes" to this world too are simply illusory notions. We can make changes, but such changes can be undone by some one later on. The best way to stop these things ofcourse is trying to get them in contact with their real nature- the divine supreme lord. Then, everyone will stop all these atrocities, ofcourse all of this is MHO.
It is no use to say to a starving man 'I'd like to help, but maybe I shouldn't because I might just make things worse, being un-enlightened'.

We have to guard against thinking that detachment is equivalent to coldness or an uncaring attitude - or even a kind of hatred of the world. There seems often to be confusion about this in the minds of some.

[Jedi]

It is no use to say to a starving man 'I'd like to help, but maybe I shouldn't because I might just make things worse, being un-enlightened'.

We have to guard against thinking that detachment is equivalent to coldness or an uncaring attitude - or even a kind of hatred of the world. There seems often to be confusion about this in the minds of some.
If I see a starving man, I will give him food, don't worry. What I mean by help and what you mean by help are two different things. You are talking about small things, like inventing things that improves modern medicine, or trying to end famine at a particular location in this world. yes, that can be done without being "enlightened" I agree.

[BlackBillBlake]

And the sum of many such small improvements may be a massive improvement....perhaps.

[Jedi]

perhaps, but it is going to take a long time to improve the world for one man if he takes this path BBB.... it is much better for him if he attains moksha and makes a big change.

[BlackBillBlake]

I think you are right in a way. What I don't like, is what Nietzche reffered to as 'the other-worlds-men' - ie those who wish to abandon life on earth for a celestial paradise of some kind, or even to dissolve in an vacum of non differentiated being.

[ChiefCowpie]

Hare Krishna

here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlH8Ye0JGm8)

[BlackBillBlake]

So where can I meet those devotees in the video?

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!



From Nicole :


My dearest friends who have dwelled on this thread (and in the Hinduism forum) since its creation,

I indeed think (and can surely say) that it was the Lord's Divine Grace that lead me away from my studies for my midterm tonight and instead drew me to this thread (just when I was looking for something quickly on the forum)... I started to read it from the beginning...

Lately I've been having a hard time with faith... I can't go into details its just that... well...I've been having a hard time and I have been praying so hard for help...and by the Lord's Divine Grace...I began to read through my own spiritual journey...through the workings of this thread and the devotees of Lord Krishna... most of you some of my closest friends on this spiritual journey...and how you had helped me to learn to Love Him more and carefully took me under your wings and showed me the path to opening my heart to His love. Each step re-taken in this archive of the past reminded me of all I Loved and the Glory of His Name, His Lotus Feet, His Lotus Eyes... His beautiful flute... and ever picture of His made me draw back...and cry... How I had missed Him! Though He just got hidden...I can't imagine how I let that happen...but there He was ...beautiful and real and whole within my being...and each sweet word of bhakti you each spoke brought me back to His Grace... a place I had been closing myself off to for some time... parrotting but not lost in its Intoxicating Bliss. So Jai Sri Krishna... if I do not sleep this night (for I still have to study)...it will be the longest most joyous night perhaps... for each waking moment will be accompanied by thoughts of Him... and I have a lot of catching up to do... But I just wanted to post here, my dear friends, to express my gratitude to all of you. For continuously helping me, for being patient with me, for taking my misunderstandings, and for giving me your love... I could not ever ask for more... I have been thus blessed by His Divine Grace... as Ma Indira Devi says, "Is it not wonderful?" Thank you all once again... I hope that I may give to you always all the support and love you have given me over these last three years in my journey... May I always serve you all as a humble servant and may we always serve His beautiful Lotus feet.

Hari Om.

Peace to you all always.

Peace and Love,
Nicole
__________________
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/thesongsofapoet/Icons/7294156.png
Giver of immortal gladness--fill us with the light of day


Once you cry for Him is enough, He is never going to let you go away. He is crying for all of us all the time. His grace is already upon you. Dear girl, your sweet words have made so many of us cry for Him once again.

[Miss_Beatle]

^^ Thats beautiful.

Me, i've also been having struggles with my religion. I'm a born and raised catholic, but ever since i was about 13/14, i just seemed to feel as if there was something missing for me in the catholic church, something i should feel when i pray, that i don't feel.

Well as you all can see, i'm obviously a huge Beatles fan. And as i'm sure alot of you know, after the Beatles went to India, they begun to get very much into the Eastern religions, especially Hare Krishna. Well after reading about how they got very involved with him, of course, me being the Beatles fan that I am, i immediately started researching Kare Krishna to see what all the hype was about.

I soon seemed to forget that the Beatles had anything to do with it (shock i know), because i became so interested in it. I found that everything they were for and believe in, seemed to, just..fit me.

So i am technically still catholic, but i have a strong feeling that might change once i become legal, and i have an idea that Hare Krishna is in my future. Until then, i read about Hare Krishna every day, and feel very connected with him. :)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dear Lauren,

Krishna's grace fell upon me through dear George Harrison when I was 17 (3 years ago) ... I also was raised Catholic and soon after my confirmation (13/14) I felt the absense of something deeper in my life and in my relationship with Lord Jesus (this was paired with the loss of my greatest spiritual guide...my grandmother...and fear from the attack on the World Trade Centre).

I was very much at the same place where you are now. And I say go for it. Do not be afraid that you will lose your identity as a Catholic and the connection to your family that it gives you. Rather... learning of Krishna and Hinduism has instead deepened my understanding of Catholicism, mysticism, and my relationship with Lord Jesus. Also, it has given me a deeper love for God than I could ever, hope, want, ask for, or deserve. It is all His Grace. So, my dear friend, if Lord Krishna intrigues you so...please find all you can about him.... ask any of the people on this board...they helped me so much when I started out and continue to help me every day of my life.

Welcome to this thread and the hipforums (I saw you at 32 posts). :)

Hope this has been of help.

Peace <3
Nicole

[Jedi]

^^ Thats beautiful.
Me, i've also been having struggles with my religion. I'm a born and raised catholic, but ever since i was about 13/14, i just seemed to feel as if there was something missing for me in the catholic church, something i should feel when i pray, that i don't feel.
Well as you all can see, i'm obviously a huge Beatles fan. And as i'm sure alot of you know, after the Beatles went to India, they begun to get very much into the Eastern religions, especially Hare Krishna. Well after reading about how they got very involved with him, of course, me being the Beatles fan that I am, i immediately started researching Kare Krishna to see what all the hype was about.
I soon seemed to forget that the Beatles had anything to do with it (shock i know), because i became so interested in it. I found that everything they were for and believe in, seemed to, just..fit me.
So i am technically still catholic, but i have a strong feeling that might change once i become legal, and i have an idea that Hare Krishna is in my future. Until then, i read about Hare Krishna every day, and feel very connected with him. :)Hare krishna is not a religion, it is a very small sect within another sect of gaudiya vaishnavism in a larger sect of vaishnavism which is only one part of Hinduism religion.

It is great you are a beatles fan, but If I were you, I wouldn't go into something because I am a fan of a really great rock star/stars. I think it would be best that if you feel that something is missing from catholicism and you really want to change that, then include other religion's ideals into your daily practice- that is if you are into practicing catholicism, but I don't know why, I just get this strange hunch that if you were to ever convert , you will meet the wrong people and get hurt doing it. I would practice catholicism or won't practice that at all instead of planning to somehow convert into something just because I am a beatles fan.

[ChiefCowpie]

the beatles slammed their finger with a car door so i am going to slam my finger with a car door

[umbra]

blah blah blah blah...wake up and smell the coffee, or else someone's gonna be in a caffeine frenzy
or cold floor

[Trauma *]

If Vaikuntha was so great, why did we give it up for this ?

[Jagadananda]

Because we're plain stupid.

www.krishnaconsciousnessmovement.com

[Jedi]

hehe thats why lets just chant hare krishna and be happy :) our heaven is Hare krishna mantra.

Hare krishna Hare krishna Krishna Krishna hare hare, Hare rama , Hare rama rama rama hare hare.

[ChiefCowpie]

Because we're plain stupid.


why did god make us plain stupid?... wouldn't that make god plain stupid?

[snake sedrick]

from Frank Zappa:


'let's get serious
god knows what he's doing
he wrote this book here
and in the book it says
he made us all to be
just like him.
So if we are dumb
then god is dumb
and maybe even
a lttle ugly on the side.'

[umbra]

hare krishna is the eldest religion in the world. It came in the form of Vedas 5000 years ago. The goal is to love Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhea.d I mean not just saying that, but actually feeling that is the point. In fact, hare krishna isn't religion at all, because it doesn apply any dogmas on people. The only point is to find out by yourself, that you are not this material body and this world is temporary and full of threefold miseries :death, illness, old age.
the best method how to obtain the state, where you can love Sri Krishna is to chant mahamantra. it goes like this:
no wonder you are sleeping jeeva...
WAKE UP WAKE UP, GET UP STAND UP....
Been there thought that...Hare Krishna has all the hallmarks of religion such as those four regulative principles, which are non other than rules and regulations , a deity/god, priests(pujaris) and what about those governing such as those GBC members?

and yeah, Krishna is so loving, its not blindness that makes people like me see Temples that practice the opposite...love i just love ''love'' through mind numbing audal/aural exercises. hmmmm

Short story
i went to a Temple (silly little me was just a curious 19 year old) i hugged a woman and went to hug the other two guys there in a harmless bid to just say goodbye, guess what:
i was categorically admonished using these words ''It is srictly prohibited for girls and men to mix''
what kind of love is that?

i enjoyed the free food, but had to sew up lots of garlands...and mop floors no thanks i just snapped out of it 2 years later.


peace and love
people get real




ps;Never under estimate the power of denial.

[drumminmama]

your story is all too common in ISKCON.
West Virginia.

[Bhaskar]

One is blinded by his good experience, the other is blinded by her bad experience.

[Jagadananda]

We all work. Either we work merely for selfish reasons or we can offer some of our work to God. Even in the Bible its says if one does not work he shall not eat. The difference between the devotee and the non-devotee is that the devotee works with the consciousness that this is divine service, while the other works with the consciousness that it is mundane service. You may even offer your secular work to Krsna. Just change the consciousness.

[Bhaskar]

Well said.

[BlackBillBlake]

We all work. Either we work merely for selfish reasons or we can offer some of our work to God. Even in the Bible its says if one does not work he shall not eat. The difference between the devotee and the non-devotee is that the devotee works with the consciousness that this is divine service, while the other works with the consciousness that it is mundane service. You may even offer your secular work to Krsna. Just change the consciousness.

Just some of our work? So what's the other work about then? Surley even if it stems from the most base possible motive, we'd be better off offering it anyway.

The Bible is wrong about 'if you don't work you don't eat' - there are folks born rich who've never done a tap, and they eat more than adequately judging from the epidemic of obesity in western countries.

[Bhaskar]

Bill, the Bible also offers the example of the lillies of the field that toil not, neither do they spin. I think the statement of don't work don't eat was more as a rule for a producitive andh ealthy society. The passage in its entierity bears out as much:


6-9Our orders—backed up by the Master, Jesus—are to refuse to have anything to do with those among you who are lazy and refuse to work the way we taught you. Don't permit them to freeload on the rest. We showed you how to pull your weight when we were with you, so get on with it. We didn't sit around on our hands expecting others to take care of us. In fact, we worked our fingers to the bone, up half the night moonlighting so you wouldn't be burdened with taking care of us. And it wasn't because we didn't have a right to your support; we did. We simply wanted to provide an example of diligence, hoping it would prove contagious. 10-13Don't you remember the rule we had when we lived with you? "If you don't work, you don't eat." And now we're getting reports that a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings are taking advantage of you. This must not be tolerated. We command them to get to work immediately—no excuses, no arguments—and earn their own keep. Friends, don't slack off in doing your duty.

So no, the Bible is not wrong. It's laying out a principle to be followed, not describing the status quo.


and anyway, I am sure the rich who enjoy great wealth in this life earned it through a lot of work/merit in previous lives. Sadly, few truly take advantage of the opportunity. Having all your physical needs taken care of amply is a great blessing, for one is then free to use all the time available for spiritual inquiry and inner evolution. Few people actually do that, sadly enough. Hence perhaps Jesus' statement that it is nearly impossible for a rich man to get into heaven...

[BlackBillBlake]

Trouble is that the same parts of the Bible - I am assuming this is from St. Paul or another of the later parts of the NT, also supports slavery.
Hence it was seen as ok to lie about all day while slaves do all the work.
It doesn't say that Christians should not have slaves, or suggest giving them freedom.

Also you have to take into account the fact that under capitalism,which is totally different from the economic system that existed 2,000 years ago, we have mass unemployment problems to which no one has yet managed to find a solution. People have therefore to be given money to live on.
It's no good to scare them with moral injunctions said to emmanate from a divine source which must just add to the sense of alienation and worthlessness they already experience as a result of their being programmed by the 'work ethic' etc, when they don't have jobs - and given the global recession, it seems many millions more will soon be out of work.

Also, my own opinion is that a great deal of the work which now goes on shouldn't be done at all, as it is simply producing crap we don't really need using up valuable rescources which can never be replaced, and causing severe damage to the natural environment.
And repetitive, industrial type work has a de-humanizing effect on the workers who have to do it, who of course, only receive a fraction of the value of what they produce anyway.

Most of the wealth in the world is in the hands of people who are entirely materialistic and selfish.