hare krishna [Archive] - Page 5

BlackBillBlake

09-29-2004, 01:36 AM

Sankirtan Yoga

By

Sri Swami Sivananda

Sankirtan is the Svarupa (essential nature) of God. Dhvani is Sankirtan. Sankirtan is the essence of the Vedas. The four Vedas originate from sound. There are four kinds of sound, viz., Vaikhari (vocal), Madhyama (from the throat), Pasyanti (from the heart) and Para (from the navel). Sound originates from the navel. Vedas also originates from the navel. Sankirtan and Vedas are born from the same source.

People sit together and sing the names of the Lord with harmony and concord, and with Suddha or Divine Bhava (feeling). This is Sankirtan. Sankirtan is accompanied by the play of musical sounds as the word 'San' precedes 'kirtan.' Sankirtan is an exact science. It elevates the mind quickly and intensifies the Bhava or divine feeling to a maximum degree.

Nama and Nami are inseparable. Nama means Name (Name of God). Nami means 'that which is denoted by the Nama or Name'. Nama is greater than the Nami. Even in worldly experience the man dies but his name is remembered for a long time. Kalidasa, Valmiki, Tulsidas, etc., are remembered even today. Nama is nothing but Chaitanya. Sankirtan is singing God's name with Bhava, Prem or divine feeling.

Sankirtan Yoga is the easiest, quickest, safest, cheapest and best way for attaining God-realization in this age. People cannot practice severe austerities now-a-days. They do not have the strength of will to practice Hatha Yoga. They cannot maintain perfect life-long Brahmacharya. They do not have the prerequisites for Raja Yoga. They are not endowed with the keen intellect necessary for Jnana Yoga or Vedantic Sadhana. But this Sankirtan Yoga or the Yoga of Singing Lord's Names is within the reach of all.

There is infinite Sakti or power in the Lord's Names. It will remove all impurities from your mind. Vedantins say that there are three kinds of obstacles to Self-realization - Mala, Vikshepa and Avarana. To remove them they prescribe Nishkamya Karma (selfless service), Upasana (worship) and Vedantic Nididhyasana (intellectual enquiry). This Sankirtan alone can achieve all these together. Sankirtan removes the impurities of the mind (Mala); it steadies the mind and checks its tendency to vacillate (Vikshepa); and ultimately it tears the veil of ignorance too (Avarana), and brings the Sadhaka (aspirant) face to face with God.

Maya is so powerful that she deludes you every moment. Every moment she makes you feel that there is pleasure only in the sense-objects and nowhere else. You mistake pain for pleasure. This is the work of Maya. Beware. Remember Janma-mrityu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosha, - this world is full of the pains of birth, death, old age, disease and misery. There is no pleasure in these finite objects. Yo Vai Bhuma Tat Sukham. You can have Bliss in the Infinite alone. Sankirtan will enable you to realize this Infinite here and now. Sankirtan will save you from Maya, from delusion. Therefore sing the Names of the Lord always.

Let us, therefore, sing the Maha Mantra:

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna

Krishna Krishna Hare Hare.

Hare Rama Hare Rama

Rama Rama Hare Hare.

This is the great Mantra which is specially meant for the people of Kali Yuga (this modern age of destruction) . Narada went to Lord Brahma and said: "O Lord, the people of Kail Yuga will not be able to practice austerities, nor to perform the Yajnas (sacrifices), nor to pursue the path of Vedanta. Kindly have mercy on them and tell me some easy way by which they can attain God." Lord Brahma in His Supreme Compassion and Mercy gave this Maha Mantra by repeating which people of the Kali Yuga will attain Self-realization. Therefore, sing the Lord's Names; serve, love, give, meditate, realize; be good and do good (this is the essence of all scriptures); be kind and be compassionate; enquire "Who am I ?", know the Self and be free. May God bless you all with health, long life, peace, prosperity and Eternal Bliss.

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-29-2004, 01:57 AM

Thanks for that BBB! :)

I love sankirtain most of all. :) I am a music person and there's something moving and wonderful about singing the maha mantra... :) :)

Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

09-29-2004, 10:21 PM

Thanks for that BBB! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

I love sankirtain most of all. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif I am a music person and there's something moving and wonderful about singing the maha mantra... http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Hare Krishna!Dear SGB,

Music is indeed a very powerful thing, and it can up-lift the consciousness like few other things. Sankirtan combines all this,and turns it toward Krishna, God.

It can be a very powerful experience. And a blissful one!

Hare Krishna! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

ChiefCowpie

09-29-2004, 11:03 PM

http://www.atributetohinduism.com/images/elephant_state.jpg

Hare Krishna, support elephant power so we don't have to unnecesarily burn fossil fuels

ChiefCowpie

09-30-2004, 06:21 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-45-1096559623.jpg

--------------------
anu’nga ennaip pirivu Seidu Ayar pADi kavarndu uNNum
kuNu’ngu nARik kuTTERRai gOvardhananaik kaNDIrE?

Did you happen to see that young bull, the hero of Govardhana, who made me suffer by leaving me alone?- The one has completely taken over Vrindavana, is enjoying every bit of it, smells of butter all the time, and loves looking after the cows?

ChiefCowpie

09-30-2004, 06:45 PM

"Manasi Ganga, Gobardhana
(Here Krishna held the mountain aloft on his finger)"

From: Braj / The Vaishnava Holy Land, J.E. Scott, 1906.

Attached Image
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-31-1084827197.jpg

ChiefCowpie

09-30-2004, 06:47 PM

http://www.cmp.caltech.edu/~mcc/India/Khajaraho/Khajaraho_20.jpg

Khajaraho

ChiefCowpie

09-30-2004, 06:51 PM

Varshana

Attached Image
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-45-1087937127.jpg

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Shaped through and through by Gaura's love--
that is a Gaudiya Vaishnav.

ChiefCowpie

09-30-2004, 06:56 PM

Varshana is the birthplace of Srimat Radharhani and the home of her parents.

ChiefCowpie

09-30-2004, 07:05 PM

http://utenti.lycos.it/aum/kundalini/dasavatar/krsna7.jpg

ChiefCowpie

09-30-2004, 07:08 PM

Sri Ramacandra

Attached Image (Click thumbnail to expand)
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-45-1095218193.jpg (http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=24163)

ChiefCowpie

09-30-2004, 07:13 PM

Krsna is weighing Radhika against a batch of jewels!

Attached Image (Click thumbnail to expand)
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-45-1096057383.jpg (http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=25239)

--------------------
\ ---------olo AmarA rAiera dAsI !---------- \
AmarA rAiera dAsI AmarA rAiera sevA bhAlovAsi

BlackBillBlake

09-30-2004, 10:09 PM

More beautiful images Chief Cowpie :) Thanks. Just looking at some of those photos shows the beauty and harmony human beings can create here on earth - it doesn't have to be the concrete jungle! It all depends on working in harmony with God and with nature.

The west too produced its treasures of religious architecture - I've seen some of the great cathedrals of France and Italy as well as England, and they are awe inspiring. The modern world is interested only in utility from its builings, or some kind of 'fad of the moment'. In the past, in India, and throughout the east and west, there was a wholly different set of criterea. A great temple or church should reflect the beauty, majesty and harmony of the Divine. It should harmonize with the natural landscape - above all, it must be a thing of beauty, a place capable of inspiring a true feeling of God's presence.

Hare Krishna!

sleeping jiva

10-01-2004, 06:50 AM

this is the most popular religion and philosophy on hipforums!
:):):):)
Hare Krishna!!!

BlackBillBlake

10-02-2004, 09:05 PM

this is the most popular religion and philosophy on hipforums!
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
Hare Krishna!!!And its thanks to you Sleeping Jiva for starting the thread in the beginning - to all those who have posted here - esp. GD Kumar. Chief Cowpie and Svg Grdn Beauty - and above all their Lordships Sri Sri Radha- Krishna !! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

10-03-2004, 03:05 AM

In 2003 I went with some friends to the Big Green Gathering , one of the best of English festivals, and quite a large event ( as the name implies!). It had rained for about four days prior to the event, and huge areas including most of what would have been paths, had turned to deep and sticky mud.

But anyway, as usual at these large uk events, ISKCON were there with a big marquee tent, doing some kirtan, giving out prasada, and selling books and inscense etc. On our wanderings around the site, my friend and I stopped by to ask about when exactly prasada would be ready, and when there would be some chanting. We were asked to return at around seven in the evening. Meanwhile, there was a darkening sky, and the threat of further rain to come.

Later on, we were making our way over a large and wet expanse of field on our way back to the Krishna tent in time to get some prasada. As we approached, I noticed that a very long queue had formed, and the wind was getting up, blowing in a cold but light drizzle. I suddenly began to laugh quite loudly. My friend asked me to let him in on the joke, but it took me a moment or so.

‘It just struck me as very funny – a kind of cosmic joke; all these folks queuing up, life after life to get prasada – Krishna’s mercy – for some reason I thought one day they’ll get sick and tired of standing in line in a wet, muddy field, to fill their stomachs, and actually take some notice of Krishna!’ I went on ‘ I’d bet you that most of these people will just grab the free food, and that’s that – some will hear the Mantra if they hang around here to eat it, but a lot will be straight back to the beer! But Krishna isn’t in a hurry – He’s got plenty of time….a seed might be planted in someone…’

My friend laughed ‘Your probably right’.

We joined the queue, received prasada, and went in to the tent to listen to the chanting which was about to begin. We remained there for some time and I was carried quite high by the Kirtan.

On leaving the tent, I walked straight into someone I hadn’t seen for a number of years, an ex-devotee, with whom at one time, I had some business association. After the initial greetings were over, he gestured towards the devotees inside the marquee on the low stage ‘They haven’t changed the tune for twenty f*****g years man!’

At once I knew that this was some kind of indicator – but of what? For one thing, I wished I’d not bumped into J, whilst at the same time I was happy to see him! I could see he had changed, and when he made the silly comment about the tune of the Mantra, it just rang so hollow – like here is someone who has erected major barricades against Krishna’s grace. The whole tone in which he said it belied a kind of insincerity, almost a feeling that this was just some ‘bravado’, meant to impress. But looking at it now, I think that it is another unfortunate result of the false ‘guru’ scam in ISKCON. J was a disciple previously of one of the eleven so called successors to Srila Prabhupada. I know that when his guru fell down, it was a traumatic thing, and the negative experience has obviously had its consequences. But I also know that inside, J is still a devotee of Krishna. My heart tells me this is so, and so does my intuition, based on what was on the surface a critical remark, but one that couldn’t quite be articulated in such a way as to be at all convincing – at least not to me .It was pronounced in a tone almost of defeat…. These insights come when one is around the whole ‘Krishna energy field’ if I can put it like that.

We parted, agreeing tentatively to meet up again or exchange phone calls.

Over the next three days I went for kirtan for about an hour each evening, and it was very good. My friend whom I mentioned before claimed that he’d experienced the Mantra ‘in the heart’ for the first time during one of these sessions.

And there, I think, lies the key to J’s difficulty. Once one has this experience ‘in the heart’ it’s very difficult to persuade the mind that its no good, or Krishna is unreal or whatever. Something deeper is at work in us, and really, it is our own best interest to accept in a spirit of devotion.

J will return to Krishna one day, I’m sure – because, like all of us, he’s never really been separated!

So, despite all the problems, and the false spiritual masters, ISKCON do still do good in at least promoting the Mantra, and giving people in general the chance to experience Kirtan. Not to mention the food……

Sorry if this is just a bit of a ramble…….:)

Hare Krishna!

sleeping jiva

10-03-2004, 03:22 AM

oh yeah! Man, ramble? hardly! the story was great. I like to read personal stories, cuz I know you from here and it's very pleasurable (is it a word? haha). I used to curse a lot too and when my friends, whom I haven't seen for years write me and they curse it seems as thought they were monsters, haha. they're quite scary. but as you said, it's hard to get rid of Krishna consciousness. I would do it immediately, cuz I'm so much enslaved by maya, that my senses would manipulated me had I had an alternative, but there's no other alternative. Nothing can be compared to Krishna consciousness and the pleasure you get from it. thanks BBB, your stories are good.

everybody check this, I've bumped into some Hare Krishna videos online stream. Quality is not that good, but if you wanna see Prabhupada go here:

http://64.93.28.242:1100/56KMpegView0.htm

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-03-2004, 07:50 AM

Ooo...thanks for the videos SleepingJiva...I'll check 'em out when I'm more awake to actually take them in...lol...

Thanks for the story BBB. :) It does indeed seem that once you have experienced Krishna Consciousness...you can never totally leave it...its always there somewhere...isn't it in a book or a lecture that Prabhupada says something about every little bit counts...like even if you only become KC for a split second in this lifetime you will ultimately benifit from it....or something like that...I don't know...lol...I need some sleep.... 17 hours of marching band has wiped me out...so good night all. :):) Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

10-04-2004, 06:16 PM

Here are two of the songs of MiraBai (c. 1498-c. 1546). These poems are in the form of devotional song known as pada.

Rama Nama Rasa Pijai

Drink the nectar of the Divine Name, O human! Drink the nectar of the Divine Name!
Leave the bad company, always sit among righteous company. Hearken to the mention of God (for your own sake).
Concupiscence, anger, pride, greed, attachment: wash these out of your consciousness.
Mira's Lord is the Mountain-Holder, the suave lover. Soak yourself in the dye of His color.

Priceless Gift.

I have found, yes, I have found the wealth of the Divine Name's gem.
My true guru gave me a priceless thing. With his grace, I accepted it.
I found the capital of my several births; I have lost the whole rest of the world.
No one can spend it, no one can steal it. Day by day it increases one and a quarter times.
On the boat of truth, the boatman was my true guru. I came across the ocean of existence.
Mira's Lord is the Mountain-Holder, the suave lover, of whom I merrily, merrily sing.

Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

10-06-2004, 01:05 PM

'The Mountain Holder'

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-07-2004, 01:55 AM

He looks like a cute little kid who is teasing his friends... sort of like, "I'll bet you 10 bucks I can hold up this mountain with one finger..."
Friend: "No you can't"
Krishna: "See told you so..." with that cute mischievious smile...

I know that's not the story...but that's what His face makes me think of when I see the picture...its so cute. :)

sleeping jiva

10-07-2004, 01:58 PM

hahaha. yes. I think He was like that, teasing and having fun.

BlackBillBlake

10-07-2004, 05:28 PM

:) Jai Mirabai !

Here's another of her songs.

Holi Raining Colours of Bhakti.

The saffron of virtue and contentment
Is dissolved in the water-gun of love and affection.
Pink and red clouds of emotion are flying about,
Limitless colors raining down.
All the covers of the earthen vessel of my body are wide open;
I have thrown away all shame before the world.
Mira's Lord is the Mountain-Holder, the suave lover.
I sacrifice myself in devotion to His lotus feet.

Hare Krishna!

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-07-2004, 10:26 PM

Oh BBB...that's soo beautiful...

I love Mirabai...gdkumar had sent me a few of her songs awhile ago...

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-08-2004, 03:06 AM

http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/images/is/images/is28.63.1.L.jpg (http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOnezoom.asp?dep=14&zoomFlag=1&viewmode=0&item=28%2E63%2E1)

Krishna holding Mount Govardhan, ca. 1590–95; Mughal period (1526-1858)
India
Ink, colors and gold on paper; H. 11 3/8 in. x W. 7 7/8 in. (28.9 x 20 cm)
Purchase, Edward C. Moore Jr. Gift, 1928 (28.63.1)
Metropolitan Museum of Art
New York, NY

BlackBillBlake

10-08-2004, 10:22 PM

Sri Ramakrishna says, “Nothing is impossible for God. Nobody can describe His real nature. All is possible for Him. There were two yogis practicing sadhana. The sage Narada passed by. Knowing him to be Narada, one of them asked, ‘Are you coming from Narayana? What is He doing?’ Narada said, ‘I saw that He was passing camels and elephants back and forth through the eye of a needle.’ One of the yogis said, ‘What is there to marvel at? Everything is possible for Him.’ The other yogi replied, ‘Oh, no. That is impossible. You have never been there.’ ”

sleeping jiva

10-11-2004, 03:29 AM

Nice picture, Nicole!

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-11-2004, 05:18 AM

Nice picture, Nicole!
lol....now I have this strong urge to go to the Met and see it in person...I need to find a museum buddy...hehe

ChiefCowpie

10-11-2004, 04:45 PM

yes, nice picture nicole

btw, we are approaching the most sacred 108th page... 4 more to go

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-11-2004, 05:28 PM

yes, nice picture nicole

btw, we are approaching the most sacred 108th page... 4 more to go

I was like, "Why 108?" but I thought about it for a second and now I get it....hehehehe...108 beads...I'm a little slow this morning....hehehe

BlackBillBlake

10-11-2004, 05:42 PM

I was like, "Why 108?" but I thought about it for a second and now I get it....hehehehe...108 beads...I'm a little slow this morning....hehehe
108 Gopis too - hence the 108 beads in the mala.

Hare Krishna!

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-11-2004, 10:56 PM

108 Gopis too - hence the 108 beads in the mala.

Hare Krishna!
Ahh...that I did not know. Thanks for that new little fact! :) Hare Krishna!

ChiefCowpie

10-12-2004, 02:06 PM

The Significance of the number 108

The Indian Subcontinent rosary or set of mantra counting has 108 beads. 108 has been a sacred number in the Indian Subcontinent for a very long time. This number is explained in many different ways.

The ancient Indians were excellent mathematicians and 108 may be the product of a precise mathematical operation (e.g. 1 power 1 x 2 power 2 x 3 power 3 = 108) which was thought to have special numerological significance.

Powers of 1, 2, and 3 in math: 1 to 1st power=1; 2 to 2nd power=4 (2x2); 3 to 3rd power=27 (3x3x3). 1x4x27=108

Sanskrit alphabet: There are 54 letters in the Sanskrit alphabet. Each has masculine and feminine, shiva and shakti. 54 times 2 is 108.

Sri Yantra: On the Sri Yantra there are marmas where three lines intersect, and there are 54 such intersections. Each intersections has masculine and feminine, shiva and shakti qualities. 54 x 2 equals 108. Thus, there are 108 points that define the Sri Yantra as well as the human body.

9 times 12: Both of these numbers have been said to have spiritual significance in many traditions. 9 times 12 is 108. Also, 1 plus 8 equals 9. That 9 times 12 equals 108.

Heart Chakra: The chakras are the intersections of energy lines, and there are said to be a total of 108 energy lines converging to form the heart chakra. One of them, sushumna leads to the crown chakra, and is said to be the path to Self-realization.

Marmas: Marmas or marmastanas are like energy intersections called chakras, except have fewer energy lines converging to form them. There are said to be 108 marmas in the subtle body.

Time: Some say there are 108 feelings, with 36 related to the past, 36 related to the present, and 36 related to the future.

Astrology: There are 12 constellations, and 9 arc segments called namshas or chandrakalas. 9 times 12 equals 108. Chandra is moon, and kalas are the divisions within a whole.

Planets and Houses: In astrology, there are 12 houses and 9 planets. 12 times 9 equals 108.

Gopis of Krishna: In the Krishna tradition, there were said to be 108 gopis or maid servants of Krishna.

1, 0, and 8: 1 stands for God or higher Truth, 0 stands for emptiness or completeness in spiritual practice, and 8 stands for infinity or eternity.

Sun and Earth: The diameter of the sun is 108 times the diameter of the Earth.

Numerical scale: The 1 of 108, and the 8 of 108, when added together equals 9, which is the number of the numerical scale, i.e. 1, 2, 3 ... 10, etc., where 0 is not a number.

Smaller divisions: The number 108 is divided, such as in half, third, quarter, or twelfth, so that some malas have 54, 36, 27, or 9 beads.

Islam: The number 108 is used in Islam to refer to God.

Jain: In the Jain religion, 108 are the combined virtues of five categories of holy ones, including 12, 8, 36, 25, and 27 virtues respectively.

Sikh: The Sikh tradition has a mala of 108 knots tied in a string of wool, rather than beads.

Chinese: The Chinese Buddhists and Taoists use a 108 bead mala, which is called su-chu, and has three dividing beads, so the mala is divided into three parts of 36 each.

Stages of the soul: Said that Atman, the human soul or center goes through 108 stages on the journey.

Meru: This is a larger bead, not part of the 108. It is not tied in the sequence of the other beads. It is the quiding bead, the one that marks the beginning and end of the mala.

Dance: There are 108 forms of dance in the Indian traditions.

Pythagorean: The nine is the limit of all numbers, all others existing and coming from the same. ie: 0 to 9 is all one needs to make up an infinite amount of numbers.

We have listed below 108 Upanishads as per the list contained in the Muktikopanishad . We have arranged them in four categories according to the particular Veda to which each of them belong.

Rigveda(10): Aitareya , Atmabodha, Kaushitaki, Mudgala, Nirvana, Nadabindu, Akshamaya, Tripura, Bahvruka, Saubhagyalakshmi.

Yajurveda(50): Katha, Taittiriya , Isavasya , Brihadaranyaka, Akshi, Ekakshara, Garbha, Prnagnihotra, Svetasvatara, Sariraka, Sukarahasya, Skanda, Sarvasara, Adhyatma, Niralamba, Paingala, Mantrika, Muktika, Subala, Avadhuta, Katharudra, Brahma, Jabala, Turiyatita, Paramahamsa, Bhikshuka, Yajnavalkya, Satyayani, Amrtanada, Amrtabindu, Kshurika, Tejobindu, Dhyanabindu, Brahmavidya, YogakundalinI, Yogatattva, Yogasikha, Varaha, Advayataraka, Trisikhibrahmana, mandalabrahmana, Hamsa, Kalisantaraaa, Narayana, Tarasara, Kalagnirudra, Dakshinamurti, Pancabrahma, Rudrahrdaya, SarasvatIrahasya.

SamaVeda(16): Kena, Chandogya, Mahat, Maitrayani, Vajrasuci, Savitri, Aruneya, Kundika, Maitreyi, Samnyasa, Jabaladarsana, Yogacudaman, Avyakta, Vasudevai, Jabali, Rudrakshajabala.

Atharvaveda(32): Prasna , Mandukya, Mundaka, Atma, Surya, Narada-Parivrajakas, Parabrahma, Paramahamsa-Parivrajakas, Pasupatha-Brahma, Mahavakya, Sandilya, Krishna, Garuda, Gopalatapani, Tripadavibhuti-mahnarayana, Dattatreya, Kaivalya, NrsimhatapanI, Ramatapani, Ramarahasya, HayagrIva, Atharvasikha, Atharvasira, Ganapati, Brhajjabala, Bhasmajabala, Sarabha, Annapurna, TripuratapanI, Devi, Bhavana, SIta.

The Significance of the number 108

We must agree that all measuring systems are merely reference frames. They give us a starting point. It doesn’t really matter if you call them farenheits or cycles. All science is based on fundamental assumptions of the mechanics of this universe. Yet, these assumptions, if correct, connect like building blocks.

Much in the same way, the number ‘108’ is just a reference frame. It is symbolic of a bigger picture: that of humility. When devotees recite 108 Hanuman Chalisas, in their minds they believe, they are proving their love for God, and that there is in fact a need to prove their love. When devotees assign a 108 names to Shri Ganesh, they are once again gauging their devotion through numbers. This, of course, may be considered unreasonable, since it suggests that 108 chants are more effective than 109 chants. How do they know this? Have they proved it? Is 108 the magic number of the universe? No, it is not! It is a reference frame. What is important is that a system is imposed to guide us through the fundamental struggles encountered in any evolutional process. Otherwise, chaos and anarchy follow and nothing gets done.

Having said that, I will show you justifications from a few subcultures in India. Obviously, I consider the Vedic rationale to be the most consistent with the fundamental laws of this universe. The others have borrowed and built, but it still smells of Vedic beginnings.

In present times, we can find many rationales for the proliferation of ‘108’ throughout our scriptures. In fact, this number seems to garner its unfair share of attention from myriad cults and faith systems around the world. I will give you a few justifications that have been brought to my attention.

JYOTISH SHASTRA {VEDIC SYSTEM}
This universe was created by the five elements: space, air, fire, water and earth. From these elements came the three attributes: Raj {birth}, Sat {protection} and Tam {destruction or death.}

The mathematical or geographical evidence proves that one circle has 360 degrees in space. Why is this circle or wheel of life considered to be of 360 degrees only? If we take a circle and start dividing it using the four elements and three attributes, all the logic can be observed.

The circle itself, is considered the first element of space, since we must consume space in drawing a circle. In this space {or circle}, the four remaining elements and three attributes create the idea of time. The circle is divisible by the product of four elements multiplied by three attributes. This involves the belief that the three attributes exist in the circle. By moving three times, each element completes its revolution.

So now we have the number 12 {3 x 4}. This division gave birth to our 12 months, and also to the 12 horas {1/2 of the day or Ahoratri}. We now have 360 degrees as well as 12 divisions. We can now further divide the wheel of time: there are 27 fixed stars (nakshatras) along with three attributes that divide the time in smaller portions. So this 27 + 3 = 30 is interpreted as 30 degrees or days of one part of the wheel (circle) or month. All of this is only half of a day. The night is yet unaccounted for. Therefore, we multiply these 30 degrees by 2. This gives us our reference of 60 seconds in a minute.

Thus the 360º x 30º = 10,800. Zero {0} is considered ‘Purna’ or complete. So we take out the last zeros and are left with 108. The idea of our total universe is represented by this number of 108. Offering 108, devotees believe that they are showing ultimate or complete respect to the Supreme.

There are many other justifications but all can be traced back to this system. A few are explained below:

SHOSHU BUDDHIST
Followers use 108 beads in their malas. They implement the following formula:
6 x 3 x 2 x3 = 108
6 senses [sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, thought]
3 aspects of time [past, present, future]
2 condition of heart [pure or impure]
3 possibilties of sentiment [like, dislike, indifference]

BUDDHA’S FOOTPRINT
All Buddhists accept the Buddha Footprint with its 108 Auspicious Illustrations. These areas are considered to have been marked on the Buddha’s left foot when his body was discovered.

BUDDHISM
108 beads on the Hindu maalaa {rosary}
108 Arhats or Holy Ones

HINDUISM
108 Gopis {consorts} of Lord Krishna
108 Holy places for Vaishnavas
108 beads on the Japa maalaa {rosary}
108 Upanishads
108 Divyadeshes - Divine or Sacred Tirtha throughout India and Nepal
108 sacred water taps in Muktinath - Nepal

TANTRA SHASTRA
108 Pitha {Sacred Places}
The story goes that Lord Shiva was in deep and incessant meditation. His asceticism was creating great heat in the universe. All existence was in peril and Lord Brahma was deeply concerned. Lord Brahma asked the Mother of the Universe, Maa Shakti, to use Her strength and wile to seduce Lord Shiva. Maa Shakti agreed and was born as Sati, daughter of Shri Daksha. Lord Shiva was so entranced by Sati’s asceticism and extraordinary beauty that he took human form and they were married. Years later, at a feast, Sati’s father insulted Lord Shiva. Sati was so humiliated that she began a deep meditation which led to her immolation. Lord Shiva was completely heart broken. He reached into the sacrificial fire and pulled out as much of His beloved’s body as he could grab. As He ascended to heaven, bits of Sati’s body fell to earth. 108 bits to be precise! In time, these places were acknowledged and worshipped.

SANATANA DHARMA
In a book by Khurana, the explanation closely mirrors the original Vedic justifications:
A circle has 360 degrees, which when multiplied by 60 gives us 21,600 minutes in a circle. 60 comes from the 60 'ghatis' which Sanatana Dharmiks believe in. One ghati is equal to 24 minutes and 60 ghatis come to 24 hours. One ghati is divided into 60 parts or 'palas'.
So the 60 ghatis multiplied by 60 palasa comes to 3,600.
This is further multiplied by 60 (becase a pala contains 60 vipalas) which gives us 21,600.
Half of this is for the day, and the other half for the night. So, 21,600
divided by 2 gives us 10,800. For practical purposes, we use 108. Using the
number 108 helps us coordinate the rhythm of time and space & we remain in harmony with the spiritual powers of nature.

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-12-2004, 10:44 PM

Wow...that's really really interesting...

Thanks for sharing that Chief Cow Pie! :) Also, there are are 54 beads on the rosary that I bought at the Vatican (not counting the string of special beads...from the connector to the crucifix at the end)... :)

BlackBillBlake

10-12-2004, 10:46 PM

Thats very interesting stuff Chief - thanks for posting it.

I've also heard that at Angkor Wat there are 108 statues arranged in an avenue leading up to one of the main temples. 54 on either side.

BlackBillBlake

10-14-2004, 12:30 AM

In 1982, I began to seriously study Srila Prabhupada’s books, to do a lot of chanting, and generally to try to immerse myself in Krishna Consciousness as much as possible. How this came about is another story, but after several months of correspondence with the temple, I decided to take the plunge and go to see the devotees at Croombe Court, a large stately home in Worcestershire, England, which at that time was ISKCON’s European HQ. The guru presiding was Bhagavan Gurudeva, one of the twelve ‘successors’ named by Srila Prabhupada prior to His departure.
A friend of mine happened to live in Worcester, and had actually spent some time staying at CC, although he’d not met Bhagavan, and was very uncertain about Krishna Consciousness. It was agreed that we would go together in his car.

We arrived at about 11.00 am. The first thing I saw was a devotee seated on a bench outside repeating japa. I’d heard japa said very fast before, but this was too fast… he seemed to be trying to ‘get through it’ as quickly as possible. But I thought perhaps I was just placing my own construction on it. We were greeted by an American devotee, who told us we’d come at the right time; Bhagavan was in residence, and it was possible he would agree to see us personally. Mm.. I thought – straight in to see the main man! The American devotee went to enquire if Gurudeva would see us, leaving us in the company of a lady devotee, who was Italian, and spoke little English. I asked about the shaven heads, and she said hair is dirty for men. I asked why not for women too? But either she couldn’t understand, or couldn’t answer.

Another devotee came in and began telling me that this temple was like a hospital – where the disease of material attatchment was cured. Then the American returned to say that Bhagavan couldn’t see us personally, but we could stay until evening and attend his Darshan. I felt somewhat disappointed at this. But many contrary thoughts were already running through my mind. Was it my spiritual pride and so on that had made me think I’d get to arrive and go straight in to see the Guru? And these devotees – they didn’t seem right somehow. Not at all the atmosphere and enthusiasm I’d found in my meetings with devotees in Prabhpada’s time. They didn’t seem at all peaceful in some way – and there was a kind of feeling that some level of this was just an ‘act’ – a learned set of behaviours. Not a genuine outpouring of an inner consciousness, or even of faith, but something wholly assumed as a mode of outward action.

It was suggested that we go to the actual temple and view the Deities of Sri Pancha Tattva, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and his principle associates, who are collectively worshiped, I believe, as the form of the Lord.

The temple was very nice, and had a wonderful series of paintings depicting Krishna’s earthly pastimes on the side walls. I felt something there- not very much, because my attention was drawn to a man who was seated at the back of the temple and who seemed to be in some distress. He kept wringing his head in his hands, and when he glanced up. An expression of hopelessness showed on his face. A younger devotee approached us. I asked about the other man. He said that he was a married devotee, hence no shaven head, who was having big doubts, which had gone on for some time. He went on that this was common. He said that Krishna Consciousness draws us in, and then all the old allure of material life comes in again – that people move in and out of it. I asked how long this person had been a follower, and was told he’d been in since the mid 70’s. I thought inwardly that this seemed a long time, only to be assailed by doubts which were obviously causing him great distress.

I talked for some time to the younger devotee, who explained that he’d only just come to CC, previously he’d been for some time at Bhaktivedanta Manor – the house donated by George Harrison. He was an attractive and well spoken young man, and urged me to put aside my doubts and join. I said I wasn’t sure. He replied that I’d feel differently after seeing Gurudeva. A group of female devotees had come in now, and one of them heard what was said and came over. Around her neck was a somewhat shrivelled old flower garland. She indicated this and smiled broadly. ‘A remnant of the Spiritual Master’ she exclaimed. ‘Gurudeva throws it in the air, and to get it is a great blessing’. ‘Male devotees will fight for remnants of the Spiritual Master ‘ she told me.

I didn’t much like the sound of this. But I smiled and said nothing, although by now I was having some doubts. This whole atmosphere wasn’t what I’d expected from my previous encounters with devotees. It wasn’t what I’d experienced in Prabhupada’s books, or in my own chanting, or meditation on Sri Krishna.

We returned back to the main house, were given a tour of certain areas, took some quite plain prasada, and sat talking to some other devotees. I can’t recall all that was said, but soon it was time for Kirtan, prior to Bhagavan’s coming down from his quarters to give Darshan.

The Kirtan took place in a kind of large entrance hall or lobby, with an enormous and beautiful picture of the child Krishna on the wall. The male devotees were all dancing with considerable physical energy, and they formed into a circle. At one point, a particular devotee was pushed into the centre, and another came forward and swung him around , arm in arm in the ‘country dancing’ style, but with such excessive force that the devotee was sent flying to the floor with quite a bump. This treatment I observed repeated two or three times. I was filled with disquiet.

Turning to a female devotee I asked her about it. ‘Devotees get excited dancing, and any pent up frustrations can come out – its all just play’ she assured me. But I was far from assured. I couldn’t equate this with what I’d read of Sri Chaitanya’s Sankirtan movement, what I’d experienced back in the 70’s with ISKCON, or indeed my own better judgement.

I noticed that the unfortunate devotee had a cut to the side of his head, but I wasn’t able to dwell on this because just then the chant changed from Hare Krishna to ‘Gurudeva’ as the great man made his appearance. As he walked past, I could hardly see him for the press of devotees. He entered a large room which had been prepared with a raised dais at one end, on which stood a large, ornate Indian chair, of the type Srila Prabhupada is often shown seated upon in photos. Gurudev took up his seat, and the same American devotee from earlier on, played a keyboard accompaniment to a further short Kirtan.

I noticed a group of Indians, three of four men standing at the back. All wore scowls on their faces, and looked somewhat sinister. One by one, devotees rose to their feet to pay respect to Gurudev with poems or just words of praise – but not their own words – rather, it was all done in phrases lifted almost verbatim from Prabhupada’s books. One could see their emotion, nonetheless, even though Bhagavan’s responses seemed a mixture of boredom and condescension. I focused hard on him, trying to feel something – anything. But all I could see was a common man – one taking a position to which he was not entitled. I felt some bitterness and frustration, and a kind of feeling of ‘oh no! oh no! what have I got into here?’

The whole atmosphere of this ‘Gurus’ ‘Darshan’ was not at all positive. I could sense some very unpleasant undercurrents of energy in the room, and the more I looked at Bhagavan, the more I was seeing him as an impostor, a fake, one with no spiritual presence whatsoever. Far from an atmosphere or aura of love, surrounding him was a wall of what looked and felt very much like sheer arrogance. The image of the Nazi’s chanting ‘heil hitler’ came into my head.

He eventually spoke a few words to all, to the effect that there are many stars in the material sky, but they are shooting stars, short lived. This was to prove prophetic in his own case, as later on, he eloped with a female secretary who had become his lover, and a pile of ISKCON cash, although the methods used to obtain this were very far from Srila Prabhupada’s intentions. I believe he was eventually prosecuted for fraud, swindling or something similar.

By now, all I wanted was to get out of there as fast as possible. I could feel an almost palpable aura of some threat – the others present seemed to be giving off a hostile vibration. The moment ‘Gurudeva’ had left the room, my friend and I , with one accord, almost ran out and to his car. He too said he’d felt very unpleasant vibes. It was almost like two men who’d just escaped being run over by a train by a hair’s breadth. It was a physical relief to be out of that place.

The truth is I was more conscious of Krishna just sitting at home, or doing jobs, or just about anything than I was that day. It began on a strange note, and ended in what was for me a big disappointment, but also a major breakthrough. It showed me clearly that this path was effectively closed to me in this form. Over time, I encountered other devotees, and was told I was wrong – I was stuck in material vision. But what the heart knows, the heart knows!

Sometime later, I became friendly with an ex-devotee of another of the pretender gurus, and he told me many things about ISKCON, from sexual abuse to out and out criminality that had gone on over the years. So I began to feel vindicated. The truth of my seeing as regards Bhagavan came when I heard the news of his ‘fall’.

Now, the nature and the scale of the scandals and fraudulence rampant in ISKCON is public knowledge. Those coming to Krishna Consciousness for the first time can hopefully be warned. But no doubt, some will be duped. That, in my humble opinion, is the danger in Prabhupada’s system – a pure devotee is needed at the top, or else the thing becomes a dangerous control mechanism, which exploits the real need people have to find the love of God. I pray that He will have mercy on all, and on Bhagavan, and all the other pretenders.

sleeping jiva

10-14-2004, 01:25 AM

Oh great, BBB! It was such a pleasure to read your story. I mean of course it was scary too, but knowing you from this board I can really identify with it. I think that you find a mistake in Prabhupada's system without being aware that this was not Prabhupada's sytem at all! He never said that these people should be his successors. They were supposed to initiate the new devotees while Prabhupada was still supposed to be their spiritual master. Servants of the servant. I was reading this on the Isckon revival movement website you posted here. These people didn't follow his system that's why the whole thing finished like this. Had they followed his instruction, none of this would happen. I'm sure of it. Pure devotee means that he has no flaw. These gurus were trying to tell us that Prabhupada had flaws and now it's up to them to bring new methods. This is the beginning of the end. When Prabhupada was here, everything worked. He might have sound like dogmatic, but I believe that this is different. We cannot comprehend intentions of a pure devotee. These people wanted to become like Prabhupada, but not in the means of spirituality. They wanted his material status. They liked the way how the acarya was adored, but they didn't understand that he was adored naturaly for he had no authority, he was authority!!! That is the difference. Well, I must say, I'm ignorant in so many things, but I know that we shouldn't blame great souls for no reason. Prabhupada is the cause why we discuss here on hipforums and he brought us this great wisdom. Many tried to bring it in West, none of them succeed. The only way to Krishna lead through spiritual master, we must appreciate him, because he's got the key, you know. Moreover, Prabhupada says that the practise you do is totaly fine. One doesn't have to go to temple. He himself is the example. He prefered to preach around the world instead of residing in one temple. Prabhupada met his spiritual master only few times, yet he knew perfectly what to do. Remember it's not by physical contact, but by your devotion you should serve.
Anyhow, I felt myself that to go to a temple just isn't in my nature and then I found out about those fallen gurus, so I know how you feel. Hey, it doesn't matter. We should just repeat verses from Bhagavadgita and Prabhupada's books and I think it's ok. As soon as you don't change anything, your work counts. And if you just make this mantra popular what better you can do?

BlackBillBlake

10-14-2004, 01:35 AM

Dear Jiva,

Thanks as always for your kind words. I did not intend to criticize Srila Prabhupada in my post, I only wanted to emphasize what can go wrong when the system is abused. You are 100% correct in saying that Prabhupada never intended these people to ursurp power as they did. I do not blame Him.
I don't blame anyone - the false gurus were, as you say, after power and prestiege and worship - just the things most people are seeking in material life!
If they knew Krishna in truth, they could never have acted as they did.
I hope this clarifies things.

Hare Krishna!

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-14-2004, 02:37 AM

Dear BBB,

Thank you for sharing that story with us. It is indeed a shame that that had happened to the ISKCON movement... its just a pity that that happens with most organized religions... they forget about spirituality and just fall into words...words, words, words....and no love...

"It is better in prayer to have a heart without words than words without a heart." Mohandas Gandhi (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/mohandasga140404.html)

I could definetely understand your discomfort of the situation...the whole time I was reading the story...the situations just gave off a sense of "not right"...

The shame is that Srila Prabhupada, bless him, really did have faith in these men to follow his instructions...its a shame that they corrupted his trust... all He ever wanted was for us all to get closer to Krishna...

sleeping jiva

10-14-2004, 02:07 PM

BBB: Ok. :) I think that this is the problem -as soon as we got the form, we tend to forget about the meaning. People are very lazy. They are satisfied with labels, but they don't question anymore. That's why I think that Prabhupada's original books are a gift of Krishna Himself. As Srila Prabhupada said several times- everything is there.

BlackBillBlake

10-14-2004, 03:47 PM

Dear Jiva,

The problem seems to me to come from a lack of realization and sincerity on the part of some of Srila Prabhupada's devotees. They set out quite deliberately to set themselves up as Gurus, without any order to do so by Prabhupada. They then went on to use the positions they had falsely asumed for their own egoistic ends -
How this could have come about is, I have to confess, something of a mystery to me. After all, they were supposed to be the 'top' devotees; they'd all had lots of personal association with Prabhupada, and they must have known that they were acting in direct contradiction to His orders.
I can only conclude that they were in fact not at all advanced in Krishna Consciousness, since they all wanted to be 'guru', and also to increase their own personal wealth, gain power over others and so on.
Some were simply perverts and criminals.
Maybe it is a question here of 'power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'.
It seems they wanted Prabhupada out of the way so thay could take over ISKCON and use the power they had ursurped for their own ends. In all this, any thought of Krishna was marginalized - or simply used as a cover for their nefarious activities.
The seriousness of what happened is reflected by the fact that one of them, Kirtanananda, was fined $250,000 and is serving a twenty-year federal prison sentence for racketeering and conspiracy in two murders.
As I said before, I pray that Krishna will have mercy on them, because their offences seem to be very serious.

Hare Krishna!

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-15-2004, 02:51 AM

This guy had posted a link to his Krishna Conscious music on the George Harrison forums and I thought it worth sharing...its very good...

http://rahil.iscool.net/

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-17-2004, 07:44 AM

daridrya-nasa, bhava-ksaya -- premera 'phala' naya
prema-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya

So by devotional service one should not expect, "My miserable material condition may be improved" or "I may be liberated from this material entanglement." So that is also a kind of sense gratification. If I want that "Let me be free from this entanglement..." Just like the yogis and the jnanis, they try. They try to be free from this material entanglement. But in the devotional service there is no such desire, because it is pure love. There is no expectation that "I shall be profited in this way." No. It is not a profitable commercial business, that "Unless I get in return something, oh, I shall not practice the devotional service in Krsna consciousness. There is no question of profit. Lord Caitanya prays to the Lord like this:

na dhanam na janam na sundarim
kavitam va jagad-isa kamaye
mama janmani janmanisvare
bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi
[Cc. Antya 20.29, Siksastaka 4]

"Oh," He says, "My dear Lord, Jagadisa..." Jagadisa means the Supreme Lord, Krsna. Jagat, jagat means this world, material world or spiritual world, all worlds. Jagat. Jagat gacchati iti jagat: "Which is progressing, that is called jagat." So Jagat-isa, the supreme master of this jagat, going concern. "Jagadisa, O the supreme master of this jagat, I pray unto You that I do not want," na dhanam, "I do not want any wealth," na janam, "I do not want any number of followers..." Na janam na dhanam na kavitam va jagadisa kamaye. Kavitam means very nice wife, poetical... "I do not want." "Then what do You want?" Mama janmani janmanisvare. Janmani janmani [Cc. Antya 20.29, Siksastaka 4] means "birth after birth." So He does not want liberation also. Because when we speak of liberation, there is no birth. Mad-gatva punar janma na vidyate: "One who reaches the kingdom of God, he hasn't got to come back again to take birth here." So here Lord Caitanya says, mama janmani janmani: "Birth after birth." That means "I do not want liberation also." Mama janmani janmani.

"Then what do You want?" Isvare bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki: "My dear Lord, I may be put in any condition of My life, but please bestow this benediction, that I may not forget You. That's all. I may not forget You. Because due to My forgetfulness I am suffering so much. So if I can remember You, I don't mind in whatever condition I am."

-Srila Prabhupada; Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 20.142-143
New York, November 30, 1966

BlackBillBlake

10-17-2004, 07:45 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear Svg GdnBeauty,

Thanks for posting that. I thought you might like to see this - it is from 'The Teachings of Lord Chaitanya' ( re-issued later as 'The Golden Avatar' possibly in an 'edited' form?) by Srila Pabhupada.

Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu instructed His disciples to write books on the Science of Kṛṣṇa, a task which those who follow Him have continued to carry out down to the present day. The elaborations and expositions on the philosophy taught by Lord Caitanya are in fact most voluminous, exacting and consistent due to the system of disciplic succession. Although Lord Caitanya was widely renowned as a scholar in His youth, He left only eight verses, called Śikṣāṣṭaka. These eight verses clearly reveal His mission and precepts. These supremely valuable prayers are translated herein.

1. Glory to the Śrī Kṛṣṇa sańkīrtana, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years and extinguishes the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death. This sańkīrtana movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge. It increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar for which we are always anxious.

2. O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds and millions of names like Kṛṣṇa and Govinda. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them.

3. One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.

4. O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth.

5. O son of Mahārāja Nanda [Kṛṣṇa], I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet.

6. O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs of my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name?

7. O Govinda! Feeling Your separation, I am considering a moment to be like twelve years or more. Tears are flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in Your absence.

8. I know no one but Kṛṣṇa as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord unconditionally.

Jaya Sri Gaura!

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-18-2004, 03:41 AM

Thanks for that BBB...it was very beautiful...

I esp. liked this one:

6. O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs of my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name?

:) Hare Krishna! :)

sleeping jiva

10-19-2004, 05:22 PM

Haribol!

I've noticed lot of Krishna related topics on the main page :):)

MattInVegas

10-19-2004, 05:54 PM

sleeping jiva

10-20-2004, 05:50 AM

yep. Let Krishna be everywhere, cuz that is happiness right away. just chant:

ChiefCowpie

10-20-2004, 02:53 PM

http://www.call-of-the-sea.com/myths/images/makara.gif
"The Makara is a composite monster something like a crocodile, taking many forms, but unreal and elusive in all of them. It is hard to imagine that it was ever believed to exist, yet its figure is common in the architecture of India and the Far East and in the Mayan and Aztec civilizations of the New World. Its appearance is so varied, its features so different, that almost any weird beast can be called a makara; there are elephant-makaras, fish-makaras, dragon-makaras, goat-makaras, and so on, which may possibly account for its lack of a concrete, substantial character.

Two points, however, seem to persist in all the metamorphoses of the makara. Although essentially a sea-beast, it always seems to have characteristics of both fish and mammal and it may be that, even as the Persian bird senmurv was an attempt to combine the features of mammal and bird in a single creature, the makara was intended to combine the features of sea and land animals in one. Secondly, the makara always has at least a suggestion of a snout. This snout, whether it originated in that of the crocodile, or as the horn of the horned shark, the horn of the antelope, or the trunk of an elephant, certainly resembles the latter most closely. The creatures modeled at either end of the ridge pole of Chinese roofs, with the pole itself coming forth from their mouths in a most successful architectural design, are presumably makaras. Their head, and the barely suggested front claws are those of the dragon; the snout that curls back over the wide-open mouth can only be described as that of an elephant.

The makara is essentially Indian, although its prototype may well be found in the goat-fish Capricorn, a creature of the Babylonian water-god Ea. Its most common form is that of an antelope-fish, and as such it is the tenth sign of the Indian Zodiac, being thus identical with the goat-fish Capricorn which is the tenth sign of our Zodiac.

But the strangest thing about the makara is that, although definitely an aquatic animal, it combines features of the elephant and the dragon. And it is in the relationship of the elephant to the dragon, or serpent, that we may find a clue to the mystery of why the dragons of East and West have so different a character. The great reptilian figure, the primeval force that under the guise of the dragon haunted the minds of both Orient and Occident, seems to have been originally one and the same creature; only, as we have seen, in Western mythology it epitomized all that was most diabolical, destructive and terrifying in nature, and in the Far East it was the king and best of all beasts, capricious perhaps, but a true benefactor of man.

In Indian mythology, however, not only do good and evil dragons exist together but they carry on constant warfare against each other. The trouble is that, to add to the confusion, it is doubtful whether either of these two opposing dragon forms are truly dragons. Both are nagas, which is usually translated either as "dragon" or "snake," but the word "naga" is applied not only to the mythological serpent breed but also to the wild elephant. And the elephant is definitely a symbol of good. (This is reflected by early Christian writers, who used the elephant as a symbol of Christ.) Thus, whether from a misunderstanding of words, or from an inarticulate attempt to express the duality of good and bad in nature, the elephant seems to have taken over the good characteristics of the dragon form, while the serpent-dragon-naga absorbed what was evil in it. The first concept, traveling east, may have been associated with an already existing spirit of the waters and thus given the Orient its kindly, bewhiskered dragon (though in this case it could only have been the concept or idea that traveled; it would be hard to imagine anything physically less like an elephant than the Chinese dragon). In the same way the second, traveling west, either created or reinforced belief in a monster of evil, an elemental force incarnate in serpent form. (In this connection it is interesting to find a seventeenth-century English naturalist saying that "There be also serpents called Elephants," whose bite inflicts a kind of leprosy, but that fortunately these are "strangers to our country.")

Whatever its origin, the traditional enmity of elephant and snake is widely accepted both East and West. The Pa snake in Western China is reputed to attack and swallow elephants, as are certain serpents in Borneo. In Libya, near the Nile river, enormous snakes are said to prey on the elephants as they come down to drink, and the same story is told of the dragon in India. There as elsewhere, it is the reptile who attacks the elephant, entangling him in vicious coils until the poor ponderous beast has no hope of escape, but it is said that the wounded elephant makes sure he falls in such a way as to crush his enemy. Thus the monsters die together. No man has ever seen one of these titanic battles, but proof of them is to be found in the existence in the earth of veins of cinnabar, for it is the dragon's blood soaking into the earth that causes this reddish ore. (At least one Japanese emperor tried to make himself immortal by drinking melted cinnabar in the belief that it was truly dragon's blood.)

All this takes us far from the makara. There may indeed be no connection between that vague and unrealistic monster and the question of whether the dragons of East and West have a common ancestor in the "naga," and whether the naga in turn is both elephant and snake. But it is curious that a single combining elephant and dragon does exist.

The makara is a frequent decorative motive, either the whole figure or the head alone, and it is probably due to its popular use in art rather than to any symbolism that it has become so widespread in the Far East. As a design rather than a living beast, it also appears in combination with another strange creature found in Indian and other Asian architecture. This is the Kirtimukha, the "Glory Face" or "Face of Fame," and it is the face of a lion, without body, without limbs, without even a chin below its wide open mouth. The eyes are protruding, the thick line of the eye-brows is extended to form a suggestion of horns, and the bushy hair springs upward as though it were meant to represent flames. The mouth is an enormous grinning cavern reminding one irresistibly of the Cheshire Cat. ("A grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!") Sometimes, especially when used as the lintel of doorways in Javanese temples, there is no lower lip at all and the "Glory Face" is scarcely even a face. From the open mouth spring festoons of pearls or of flowers, and these in turn end on either side in the head of a makara, fish face, elephant snout and all.

This Kirtimukha is probably related to the "T'ao-t'ieh," or monster face, of China, which was supposed to drive away evil spirits and which was much used on early sacrificial bronzes. It is likely that both are derived from some ancient Asiatic symbol, the meaning of which is lost to us. The origin of the T'ao-t'ieh (also Tao-tieh) is certainly obscure, the only hint being contained in a single reference in the early classical books to the T'ao-t'ieh as one of four monsters exiled into outer darkness by the emperor Shun about 2,000 B.C., but it is interesting to find that the characters for the name of this bodiless monster face mean "voracious glutton." The story as told in India by the worshippers of Siva to account for the origin of the Glory Face fits in well with the idea of gluttony.

Siva, it seems, was just about to marry the beautiful Parvati, when a messenger came to him from the land of the demons. This messenger was Rahu, the demon who every now and then swallows the sun and so causes eclipses, and the message he brought was that the king of the demons considered Siva unworthy to wed Parvati of the mountains, and that he himself would take her instead. On hearing this Siva became so angry that, before he could even speak, a monster in the shape of a man-lion, which was indeed nothing else than his own concentrated fury made visible, sprang out from between his eyes and fell upon the unfortunate Rahu. Rahu, however, threw himself at Siva's feet and begged for mercy, arguing, as the ambassadors of kings have always done, that he could not reasonably be held responsible for the message of which he was only the bearer. Siva, mollified, agreed to let him go. But the lion creature who was born of his wrath now turned upon Siva, and complained of hunger.

"You created me to devour the demon," he protested. "And now you have forgiven him and sent him away. What am I to do?"

"Well," Siva agreed, "that is true enough. But if you have been cheated of one demon, there is still another. You will just have to eat yourself."

And this the monster did. He began with his legs and then his arms, gradually eating himself up until nothing remained of him but the face. (The strings of pearls so gracefully formed into garlands by the artists were his entrails.) The sight of this so amused Siva that he appointed the lion spirit -- or what remained of it -- as guardian of his door, to be worshiped and fed with sacrificial meats by all who entered there.

Text excerpted from Peter Lum's Fabulous Beasts, copyright 1951. "

quoted from:

http://www.call-of-the-sea.com/myths/makara.htm

ChiefCowpie

10-20-2004, 02:57 PM

This Makara is constructed in two animal forms

Attached image(s)
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-31-1089995040.jpg

ChiefCowpie

10-20-2004, 02:58 PM

This is the way a Makara is normally placed in a temple structure. there should be one at the other side as well. This one is some kind of aquatic animal with an elephant's trunk holding a fish. Some kind of crocodile with lions' paws and a fin/wing hinting at the union of the diverse elements...

Attached image(s)
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-31-1089995193.jpg

ChiefCowpie

10-20-2004, 03:01 PM

Here is a Kirtimukha of the Konarak Sun Temple, a Face of Glory, the personification of hunger eating itself, a symbol of the universe

Attached image(s)
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-31-1090011677.jpg

ChiefCowpie

10-20-2004, 03:03 PM

"Yalli, (corruption of Skt. vyala, fierce monster) are architectural or decorative animal motifs. They feature mainly as stone carvings like the ones at the famous Hindu temples of Madurai in Tamil Nadu, South India.

They usually have the stylized body of a lion and the head of some other beast, most often an elephant (gaja-vyala.) Other common examples are: the lion-headed (simha-vyala,) horse- (ashva-vyala,) human- (nir-vyala) and the dog-headed (shvana-vyala) ones. They are related to the hippogryphs and sphinxes of Egypt and Mesopotamia, and symbolize the world-emperor (Skt. chakravartin,) whose strength derives from divine power.

Another monstrous creature is the Shabara, a hybrid of a lion, horse and ram.)

Their counterparts in European design are some of the fantastic animals used as mediaeval heraldic devices, eg. the griffon.

Mukha

Mukha means face or mask or even maw. A mukha is an architectural or decorative motif that is placed above openings as a form of protection. It is also known as makara vakstra, and is often the central feature in the elaborate cloth door hanging known as a toran. A particular type is known as the Face of Glory or Kirtimukha. It is a demonic mask of great ferocity with protruding eyeballs, stout horns, and a gaping maw with prominent fangs or canine teeth. Kirtimukhas often appear above gates, dormer windows, archways and so on. A kirtimukha often has garlands or festoons issuing from its mouths.

It is also referred to as Simha-mukha (lion-mask) in literature, and the stylized lion's face can be traced to the Persian lion-faces which appear for the first time in India on Mauryan (eg. Ashoka) pillar capitals. It is referred to as Grasamukha in western India, Rahumukha in eastern India, and as Kala in the Southeast Asian countries.

It may be related to the Mask of Medusa as it was used in Greek and Roman architecture. Gorgon heads with their terrific faces were carved on gates and walls of forts, palaces, and temples to ward off enemies and other dangers. Similar decorative devices were also used by the Scythians, Chinese and appear all over the world; in Britain, for example, there is the Green Man mask hiding in corners of Gothic cathedrals.

The Kirtimukha is generally considered symbolic of the destructive power of Shiva Mahabhairav (very wrathful) -- destroyer of demons. It is seen by Hindus as symbolic of the glory of divine power which generates creation but is also the source of destruction. For Buddhists it is a symbol of Impermanence -- the face of the demon grasping the Wheel of Samsara. However, alone, it is an auspicious mark of the activity of Dharma Protection.

Some see in the Kirtimukha, the eclipse demon Rahu who had no body according to Indian mythology. Eclipses are almost never considered good omens and often are interpreted as portents of disaster. Considering the ancient homeopathic principle that we can treat "like with like" then we can understand why Kirtimukhas are believed to ward off evil, especially such forces of destruction as fire and earthquake.

V. S. Agrawala says that kirti denotes an excavated chamber, and so Kirtimukha signifies its façade. ~ Rajaram Hegde's on-line article.

Kirtimukha often appears as a subtle motif in the embroideries, and traditional Tibetan Buddhist hangings and banners that decorate shrine rooms and temples. For some, they still serve in a magical capacity to ward off evil, for others they are only an auspicious motif. Most people do not even realize the mask is there."

a quotation from:
http://www.khandro.net/mysterious_vyali_mukha.htm

ChiefCowpie

10-20-2004, 03:06 PM

corresponding ideas in our european and islamic traditions

for a sample of a Green Man in England see

http://www.mikeharding.co.uk/greenman/greenpix2.html

The Green Man in Islamic tradition here, but clearly leading into alchemical symbology:

http://khidr.org/index.htm

ChiefCowpie

10-20-2004, 03:10 PM

This is a more speculative piece on cosmic-astronomical connections of these symbols.

"Coomaraswamy writes that the makara is a great Leviathan (serpent) moving through the waters. Since the makara has a primary stelar relationship with Capricorn, the waters, on one level, must be the cosmic ocean of the night sky. Spiritually, or metaphysically, the waters contains the essence of life. The makara decorative types that Coomaraswamy examines are well known as the “vehicle” of Varuna and the banner of Kamadeva. “Vehicle” means conveyence or totem object in which the deity resides. Kama-deva means death or time spirit. In relation to Kamadeva, the makara’s mouth symbolizes the gate of death and birth, and passing through it annihilates time.

In other words, the domain beyond the terrible, devouring mouth of the makara is the realm of unconditioned essences, and is beyond the conditioned experience of time within the manifest world. As such, the makara is related to the gandharva beings who guard the gate of paradise, within which the soma elixir of immortality can be had (if one is spiritually prepared). Krsannau is a gandharva; he is an archer who protects the treasure of heaven at the center of the world. He is associated with Sagittarius, the archer constellation. Already, we have two pointers to a specific region of the sky: Krsannau (Sagittarius) and the makara (Capricorn), which are next to each other. The makara is related to a group of life-sprouting or life-devouring mouths that include the kala-mukha (great mouth) and the simsumara crocodile, who lies in wait within the stream travelled by the newly deceased soul. In many traditions around the globe this river of souls is usually equated with the Milky Way. Given that the mouth motif is located in the region of Sagittarius, Capricorn, and the Milky Way, it is almost impossible to not associate it with the great cleft in the Milky Way which runs north of Sagittarius.

The makara is also the vehicle of the river goddess Ganga (p. 143), and the Ganges is associated with the Milky Way. The makara appears as the source of lotus vegetation (of life). The Yaksa is a spirit of life-essence and the lotus is sometimes shown sprouting from its mouth or navel. Voice and navel were though of as creative forces or centers.

In Mannikka’s book on Angkor Wat, a connection is made between the eagle who stole soma and the Aquila constellation. Krsannau (Sagittarius) shot at the Garuda bird/eagle. The soma is often equated with solar fire, but is also the life-essence that resides at the root of the cosmic tree of creation. It can also be conceived of as creative fire at the top of the cosmic mountain. Varuna was an early form of Indra, whose solar associations place the sun into the sidereal location under consideration. This opens up the yaksa cosmology to time, seasons, and solar movements. The ashvatta twins helped to resurrect their solar father on the winter solstice. The ashvatta is the station of the horse, related to sky elephants (clouds; the Milky Way) who are gandharvas. Yaksas and Yaksis are later male-female versions of the gandharva-apsarases duality, and may relate to the ashvata twins. The asvatta is also the tree under which the Buddha achieved enlightenment; as it is also the station of the horse, we may have an astrological feature much like the Mayan crocodile head that represents the nuclear bulge of the galactic center. Coomaraswamy writes, “the makara is always represented, at least in the early art, as a creature with a head like a crocodile…” (143). A related tree is the nyograva tree, which means “downward spreading.” This inverted tree motif evokes an axis that comes down to earth from a celestial root or center place. This is the tree in the galactic chakra model. Mula is lunar mansion called “root” and is located at the galactic center (see Frawley).

The full-face makara, a widely used architectural element even to this day, is also known as kirtimukha, or “glory head.” Coomaraswamy writes that the kirtimukha was probably not originally associated with the makara. My feeling, given the glory head’s presence in the Rahu-myth, is that it should refer to the Gemini-Taurus gateway. Confusion arises in the multiple uses of different metaphors (mouth, naval, head) and when isolating one side of the sky from the other. The proper system would identify the makara’s mouth as a birthplace (vagina / fish-mouth) and the Rahu glory head as the third eye of the sixth chakra; or, the creativity of third eye mentation is born through incantation and thus voice/mouth. Vagina-mouth duality. The Makara crocodile is analogous to the Greek dolphin (p. 144); the dolphin as symbol of the savior who was born on the December solstice is consistent with the makara’s association with Capricorn (see my argument that the dark-rift “mouth” rises heliacally when the sun is in Capricorn). The makara is related to the flood legend (water or life essence flooding out of the Leviathan’s mouth) – thus an eschatological use. A myth states that the makara’s mouth can contain a pearl, and extracting it was providential; this relates to the soma-beyond-the-gate theme.

It is not surprising that these features and locations come together in the Churning of the Ocean creation myth. At Angkor Wat, this myth is prominently featured. A related myth, the theft of soma, borrows many of the motifs; most significantly, soma. Sagittarius, Aquila, Capricorn, and the sun (as soul-essence or soul-fire) all relate to the sun’s passage (annually or precessionally) through the galactic center. Metaphysically, we can understand this as being equivalent to the soul’s after death journey to God. The soul, like the sun, passes through the highest house wherein the Creator dwells. In the passage through God’s house, spirit-energy attaches to the soul. Or, we might say, the God-consciousness already resident in the soul resonates with the God-soma-energy-light during its after-death processing in the highest heaven."

quoted from:

http://alignment2012.com/coom-yaksa.html

ChiefCowpie

10-20-2004, 03:13 PM

Krishna wears a Makara-kundala (Makara-shaped ear-rings)

This is told about Perumal in this regard:

"The makara kundala i.e., ear drops which adorns His ears is studded with precious stones. When He moves His head, they create a gentle musical sound. What is more the bright shining glow of the precious stones in the kundala get deflected by the frontiers of the ashta disas (eight directions) and rebounds on the face of Perumal and enhances His Tejas. It is as if the makara kundalas are dancing with joy at the sight of the lavanya sundaram (Supreme delicate beauty) of the divine face. The face (mukham) of Perumal radiates Tejas (bright effulgence), Saithyam (cool), Mardavarn (softness), sowrabhyam (delicate fragrance). It has all the great qualities (sakala kalaigal). It confers happiness on all; It is so beautiful as to surpass even the ravishing beauty of the blemishless chandramandala and that of a freshly blossomed lotus flower. It makes the devotees who are near Him become uncontrollably mad with a craving to attain Him (pichhu uttri). It is the abode of Maya and makes the devotee forget everything else and think of only one wish viz., to attain His lotus feet and become one with Him."

http://www.srivaishnava.org/sva/lokacar/arche3.htm

BlackBillBlake

10-20-2004, 11:04 PM

And why NOT? This IS a freedom of speach site. These people are hapy with who they are. They are simply Pushy about wanting YOU to be happy too.
I want you all to be happy with who you are. I just don't TELL you what to believe so you CAN be happy.
Hare Krishna!

If people are happy and sincere, whatever they believe is ok with me - not trying here to say that you must believe this or that - everyone is free to beleive in Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, The Great Spirit, Tao, Angels - just seeking here to follow a particular line.... myself, I have no wish to impose my beliefs on others :)

With Love,

BBB.

ChiefCowpie

10-20-2004, 11:24 PM

am not sure of exactly what matt is saying but tis true that some hare krishnas have been rather pushy of their beliefs and black spotted the ideology

BlackBillBlake

10-20-2004, 11:42 PM

am not sure of exactly what matt is saying but tis true that some hare krishnas have been rather pushy of their beliefs and black spotted the ideology
You're absolutely right about some being very pushy - too pushy IMHO :)

I'm not fully sure what Matt was saying, but I just wanted to say that not all who believe in Krishna are either narrow minded or saying 'this is the only way'.

And Chief, the posts on the Makara are very interesting - thanks once again.

Love,

BBB.

sleeping jiva

10-21-2004, 02:43 AM

Lol. If u chant mahamantra, or serve prasadam, or spread the Mahaprabhu's message it is the best pushiness you can ever get. :):):)

Today. My friend asked me to Mc over his drum and bass vinyls in our college radio, he's a dj. I sang some stuff and then I chanted a few mahamantra rounds and I finished with Jay Prabhupada. hahaha. Nobody knew how pushy I am :)

I was travelling by subway here in Montreal and all of a sudden it hit me. Check this:

George Harrison -Hari's son -get it? hahaha

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-21-2004, 03:06 AM

George Harrison -Hari's son -get it? hahaha
lol...I saw that on an Vaisnava tribute site to George Harrison...I thought that was pretty cool... :)

sleeping jiva

10-21-2004, 05:44 AM

yeah, I've never realized it. but in each case quite mind blowing, isn't it? Hari is Lord Krishna. hihihihihi.

BlackBillBlake

10-21-2004, 05:32 PM

Lol. If u chant mahamantra, or serve prasadam, or spread the Mahaprabhu's message it is the best pushiness you can ever get. :):):)

Hare Krishna!

The thing is though Jiva, that often too much pushyness, especailly coupled with dogmatism, is one of the main factors that can put folks (or potential FOLKS - Freinds of Lord Krishna) off.

ChiefCowpie

10-21-2004, 10:46 PM

Or using the logic that since everything belongs to Krishna, its ok to steal for Krishna's service.

sleeping jiva

10-21-2004, 11:54 PM

BlackBillBlake

10-22-2004, 12:14 AM

No, no, if you're really Krishna conscious -you're the one who gives -mahamantra, prasadam, message of Bhagavadgita. You must do it according to circumstances of course, but please never compromise. Never agree on impersonalism.
However, before trying to give others the message of Bhagavad Gita, it is necessary to be fully sure of what that message is. The last word of Bhagavad Gita is often said to be Chapter 18, verse 66

'Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me; I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear'

I don't like to criricize anyone who is following sincerely any spiritual path.

Hare Krishna!

Kharakov

10-22-2004, 01:06 AM

'Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me; I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear'

I don't like to criricize anyone who is following sincerely any spiritual path. So occasional hatred for God (krishna) is simply a step in the path? Generally, anytime I am angry with something or someone, I blame God. I also credit God for the good times- since everything is God's fault/creation.

BlackBillBlake

10-22-2004, 01:20 AM

So occasional hatred for God (krishna) is simply a step in the path? Generally, anytime I am angry with something or someone, I blame God. I also credit God for the good times- since everything is God's fault/creation.
Hare Krishna!

The goal of this yoga is love of Krishna - we have no reason to blame God when things go wrong - often it's our own doing. If we surrender, that means we aren't seeking any goal that is not Krishna's will. We give up our own desires and so whatever Krishna sends is to be accepted.
But in the Srimad Bhagavatam Krishna's pastimes are described, and as well as devotees, Krishna also has enemies. Krishna's uncle, King Kansa was one such. He was always thinking of Krishna, but in a negative way, plotting to kill him, and eventually challenging Him to a wrestling match. Kansa lost this contest and was killed by Krishna, but he was also given immediate liberation. So even thinking of Krishna in a negative way isn't all bad - its better than not thinking of Him at all. And perhaps Kansa himself was secretly a devotee, but took the role of enemy for the sake of the lila, Krishna's Divine play.

BlackBillBlake

10-22-2004, 01:27 AM

Hare Krishna! Page 108! :)

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-22-2004, 01:37 AM

Ah, so it is page 108! :) Hare Krishna!! :)

Btw Andrew, beautiful picture!! :)

ChiefCowpie

10-22-2004, 01:59 AM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-348-1098135391_thumb.jpg (http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1008)

Divine narcissism

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-22-2004, 03:12 AM

Divine narcissism
lol...you're right...hehe...

That is a very beautiful picture...thanks for sharing it! :)

Kharakov

10-22-2004, 05:18 AM

The goal of this yoga is love of Krishna - we have no reason to blame God when things go wrong - often it's our own doing. But we can do nothing except what God sets out for us to do. You start in whatever form Krishna picks, and you end how krishna chooses- so all things that happen (even your 'wrongs') are caused by Krishna and within the divine plan. When Krishna deliberately provokes your anger, it is not your fault. You cannot stand up against Krishna- all you can do is become angry, for this is Krishna's will. At the same time as you recognize that your anger is deliberately provoked by Krishna, you should recognize that your anger is part of Krishna's will, and therefore the blame for your anger lies upon Krishna, as well as the credit for whatever benefit you gain from becoming angry with Krishna.

If we surrender, that means we aren't seeking any goal that is not Krishna's will. We give up our own desires and so whatever Krishna sends is to be accepted.Including our own desires that Krishna has built into us. We do not create desire through our own will, Krishna creates our desire as well as our surrender. Causing painful desire to arise within a being is part of what Krishna does.

But in the Srimad Bhagavatam Krishna's pastimes are described, and as well as devotees, Krishna also has enemies.Enemies that Krishna has deliberately created with the purpose of defeating them. If I have a child, and deliberately cause its enmity for the sole purpose of vanquishing my own child, I would be judged as evil, would I not? If in following Krishna's example of causing evil in the world I emulate the supreme being, then the evil I do is nothing more than divine drama, and the pain is just part of the act. It is no matter that we have no choice in the roles we play.
Do you not think that this is heavy handed of Krishna to decide to deliberately be hurtful of one part of creation and favor the other portion? Does your desire not to be the enemy of Krishna cause you to ignore the deliberate provocations of your creator? Is your will greater than Krishna's that if Krishna decides to provoke your anger, you will not be angered?

Kansa lost this contest and was killed by Krishna, but he was also given immediate liberation.So perhaps Krishna provokes my enmity in order to liberate me, and chooses the easy path (of provoking love) for others?

BlackBillBlake

10-22-2004, 01:13 PM

But we can do nothing except what God sets out for us to do. You start in whatever form Krishna picks, and you end how krishna chooses- so all things that happen (even your 'wrongs') are caused by Krishna and within the divine plan. When Krishna deliberately provokes your anger, it is not your fault. You cannot stand up against Krishna- all you can do is become angry, for this is Krishna's will. At the same time as you recognize that your anger is deliberately provoked by Krishna, you should recognize that your anger is part of Krishna's will, and therefore the blame for your anger lies upon Krishna, as well as the credit for whatever benefit you gain from becoming angry with Krishna.
This idea that we can do nothing but what Krishna puts into us is not quite right. In the Gita, it is explained that this world of the lower nature is more or less mechanical in its operations. A person thinks they are acting in a way they have willed, but it is only the Gunas, the modes of nature or prakriti acting. Krishna has three main energies - the higher spiritual nature, the lower material and the marginal, which includes all living entities. In effect, unless the true relation to God is realized, we are on a conveyor belt - we have the idea that we choose this or that course of action, but it is all determined by karma and the gunas. By the lower nature, or Kshara.
Also, in the Gita Krishna says that anger and so on are lower qualities that are associated not with the Divine, but with the demonic. There are these two natures in us - the devotee, as I explained, is one who gives up the illusion of personal desires, preferences, and so on. If we are not seeking to fulfil any particular desire, there is no frustration or disappointment possible, and hence, no cause for anger. Anger only arises when our own 'will' is thwarted.
Krishna doesn't 'provoke our anger' - if one is angry with God, it is because of the power of illusion, which makes us identify with the lower part of our being - physical, mental, false ego. If we can once realize our true identity as eternal spiritual beings, that we are simply small packets of the self same God, and this nature is blissful and eternally liberated, what cause for anger?
Even from a different point of view, Christianity, God gives man free-will - we have a choice to turn to Him or not.
We have to serve either the false ego or God. It is true that God's will sustains the entire universe, but that doesn't mean we are automatically serving Him. It is a question of consciousness. Without God consciousness, we are not serving Him directly. We have the idea that we are doing this or that, fulfilling our desires etc, but it is all carried out by the modes of nature.

Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

10-22-2004, 01:21 PM

Well... I dunno much about it.. but it is a religion....
re·li·gion (rhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif-lhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifjhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gifn)
n.

<LI type=a>Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
tell me it doesn't fall under any of those definitions.
Actually, Bhakti is a type of yoga. If you want to call it religion, thats up to you.

sleeping jiva

10-22-2004, 04:52 PM

It is not a religion at all!!! If you got this characteristic, then you may call it a religion, but actually religion means dogma. Hare Krishnas are tolerant to other paths. As soon as you chant the names of God -it doesn't mater what path you follow. We respect Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha -cuz we understand that these were nothing than Krishna consciousness (God Consciousness) preachers. For Hare Krishnas set of practices are important, but the main thing is to serve Krishna. It is a service, not a religion. You might be attached to certain practises too. Also, it is not a belief. Belief changes. Once you believe in that than you believe in something else. Bhakti is eternal. It follows you from life to life. Devotee is not afraid to go to hell in order to serve Krishna, cuz he doesn't care for material conditions. We are spirit souls, not this material bodies. As soon as you understand this, you begin to understand Krishna.

BlackBillBlake

10-22-2004, 08:35 PM

Hare Krishna!

I've found a couple of pictures of Sri Krishnaprem, and I thought I'd post them here along with a poem about him by Dillip Kumar Roy.

Sri Krishnaprem.

Sons of an intellectual age, we scan
And weigh the heart's findings with our intellectual measures,
Surmising never once that no mind can
Win even a clue to the soul's resplendent treasures.

The more we probe the more must thought mislead
Till even the meaning of our spirit's birth
Is buried in the din of words that plead
For the reign of trifling truths of temporal worth.

You diagnosed this fatal malady
With an insight born of loyalty to love
And so disowned our reasoned revelry
Whose dire dischord your heart could never approve.

O Reason's elect, withal, a citizen
Of stellar climes no mind has ever trod:
Who saw your radiant Face could never again
Doubt faith's deep power of leading us back to God.

D.K.Roy.

ChiefCowpie

10-23-2004, 07:32 PM

BBB, Sri Krishna Prem looks most most saintly and gentle... he is very beautiful... most obvious that Radha and Krishna have taken shelter in his heart.

108,000 - 109 = 107,891

only 107,891 pages until we get to page 108,000

Kharakov

10-24-2004, 01:06 AM

This idea that we can do nothing but what Krishna puts into us is not quite right.Sets out for us to do, not puts in to us.
In the Gita, it is explained that this world of the lower nature is more or less mechanical in its operations.
In effect, unless the true relation to God is realized, we are on a conveyor belt - we have the idea that we choose this or that course of action, but it is all determined by karma and the gunas. By the lower nature, or Kshara.So a 'mechanical conveyer belt' built by God leads us into understanding our true relation to God. Still entirely dependant upon God.

If we are not seeking to fulfil any particular desire, there is no frustration or disappointment possible, and hence, no cause for anger. Yup.
Krishna doesn't 'provoke our anger' - if one is angry with God, it is because of the power of illusion, which makes us identify with the lower part of our being - physical, mental, false ego.If what God does causes anger to arise within God's creation, this is a flaw in God's ability to act without producing anger, unless this anger is aroused on purpose. Your claim means God is flawed and cannot create us without sometimes causing us to identify with the 'lower' part of our being (becoming angry). I claim God sometimes chooses to cause us to identify with the lower part of our being to fulfill God's purpose in perfecting the 'lower' part of our being.
It is true that God's will sustains the entire universe, but that doesn't mean we are automatically serving Him. It is a question of consciousness. Maybe people are not aware of serving God's purpose, but they are.

BlackBillBlake

10-24-2004, 01:57 AM

Sets out for us to do, not puts in to us.
So a 'mechanical conveyer belt' built by God leads us into understanding our true relation to God. Still entirely dependant upon God.

Yup.
If what God does causes anger to arise within God's creation, this is a flaw in God's ability to act without producing anger, unless this anger is aroused on purpose. Your claim means God is flawed and cannot create us without sometimes causing us to identify with the 'lower' part of our being (becoming angry). I claim God sometimes chooses to cause us to identify with the lower part of our being to fulfill God's purpose in perfecting the 'lower' part of our being.
Maybe people are not aware of serving God's purpose, but they are.
It is not God but the material world and our mode of consciousness that is flawed. The reactions of karma may eventually lead to some connection to God - no doubt that eventually, everyone is going back to Him - but yoga is a means to speed up this process.

The idea that 'what God does causes anger to arise in God's creation' must obviously be true in one sense, but anger and so on are like perverse reflections of something that exists in God, as is this whole world. It is said to be Krishna's separated material energy - it is not that this world is integrated fully in Him.

What you say about 'God causing us to identify with the lower being... to fulfil God's purpose in perfecting the lower part of our being' - is probably quite correct, in the sense of a Divine influence gradually evolving a higher level of perfection here in the world. However, only if one has an inner consciousness of God and is seeking to work towards first of all one's own perfection, can this really be true. Otherwise, people just serve their own egoistic desires, puppets of unseen forces that are constantly acting upon them, compelling them to actions that do nothing to bring about any positive change on a meaningful level.

Nothing can exist for an instant without Him. Nothing can be done without His support. But usually, human beings are not aware of this - they act as though they were independent, they focus on external things and temporary goals, and never give any time to God. Hence they are not aware of God or of any Divine action whether aimed at their individual liberation, collective planetary evolution, or both. Yoga is the means to become aware. In this case, with Sri Krishna, the emphasis is on Bhakti, devotion and love, but there are other forms of yoga.

The point about people serving God's purpose without knowing it is also true - Krishna Himself tells Arjuana that all beings follow His path in all respects. But there is a huge difference between a conscious and an unconscious instrument of His purpose! Surrender to Krishna means just that - to seek to become a conscious servant of His will. Not a puppet in the hands of unconscious forces.

Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

10-24-2004, 03:07 AM

BBB, Sri Krishna Prem looks most most saintly and gentle... he is very beautiful... most obvious that Radha and Krishna have taken shelter in his heart.

Chief, thats just what I felt too! :) He is truly a radiant being.

Hare Krishna!

Om Shanti!

Kharakov

10-24-2004, 11:37 PM

But there is a huge difference between a conscious and an unconscious instrument of His purpose! Surrender to Krishna means just that - to seek to become a conscious servant of His will. Not a puppet in the hands of unconscious forces.
Awesome.

sleeping jiva

10-25-2004, 11:40 PM

Well said BBB! WE must get out of Krishna's material energies. And He wants us. If we were completely dependent on Him, we wouldn't enjoy our love to Him. This is basicaly the reason why we suffer. We must understand our true position.

sleeping jiva

10-26-2004, 12:49 AM

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-26-2004, 03:05 AM

I just found a huge collections of films of Srila Prabhupada on the net! They're free to donwload and in quite high quality!!! go check it out, I'm just downloading the 4th part. Prabhupada dancing at some festival jumping like a youngster -it's worth watching!

Jay Prabhupada!They are very lovely...and everyone is soo happy in them...

Here's the link...btw....lol...

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/websites/75340/0/collapsed/5/o/1

:) Hare Krishna!

sleeping jiva

10-26-2004, 07:06 PM

i'm sorry I forgot the link!!! haha

SvgGrdnBeauty

10-26-2004, 09:16 PM

i'm sorry I forgot the link!!! haha
lol....that's ok...we still love you!!! :) :)

Hare Krishna!

sleeping jiva

10-27-2004, 02:19 AM

Please, love Krishna instead, who am I ? just a poor man in hands of maya

Kharakov

10-27-2004, 06:45 PM

The maya of D.C. smoked crack.

ChiefCowpie

10-27-2004, 09:52 PM

good point kharakov, which is why one doesn't wanna remain a poor man in the hands of the maya of D. C. so one too doesn't end up smoking crack

Kharakov

10-28-2004, 12:39 AM

good point kharakov, which is why one doesn't wanna remain a poor man in the hands of the maya of D. C. so one too doesn't end up smoking crackI have smoked a bunch of crack, basically because I had faith that God brought it to me. After a bit, I got sick of the lifestyle. I guess being a crackhead isn't my calling (or all its cracked up to be). I would have noided if I didn't know God was with me when I was involved in that scene. All in all, the spiritual rush is Good too, and it comes without a price tag.

BlackBillBlake

10-28-2004, 11:50 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear Kharakov,

A lot of people have problems with hard drugs. Its good that you are coming away from that scene. I hope God will give you stregnth to stay away from it.
With the 'spiritual rush' there's no price tag in money - its a matter just of being sincere. Krishna sees what is in our hearts. And there's no price to be paid in health terms.
Drugs like Cocaine, Heroin etc don't really take one closer to God. They induce a temporary and artificial happiness, sense of confidence, and so on. And when it wears off, one is plumetted back down into all the negatives - only with the added social & other problems they bring. But I'm not trying to lecture anyone on drugs - I'm sure that isn't necessary.
I just want to wish you Krishna's grace and blessings.

ChiefCowpie

10-29-2004, 01:05 AM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-6-1098966995_thumb.jpg (http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1031)

New Indian Guru

sleeping jiva

10-29-2004, 01:18 AM

does he serves Krishna?

ChiefCowpie

10-29-2004, 01:45 AM

Residents of Nabadwip Dham, locally called "night-birds": Fruit-eating flying dogs.

Attached image(s)
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ChiefCowpie

10-29-2004, 01:47 AM

Typical farm-house at Ekachakra, Sri Nitai's appearance place.

Attached image(s)
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-31-1087245648.jpg

ChiefCowpie

10-29-2004, 01:49 AM

A Dham-bhasi making muri, puff-rice.

Attached image(s)
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-31-1087246069.jpg

ChiefCowpie

10-29-2004, 01:51 AM

Hanuman: A friendly Nabadwip Dham resident on her daily tour through the town. (The leader of the harem may be dangerous, though, when confronted.)

Attached image(s)
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-31-1087246813.jpg

ChiefCowpie

10-29-2004, 04:11 AM

does he serves Krishna?
He is pure devotee #1 of Krishna. It is very important that we all love and adore him.

BlackBillBlake

10-29-2004, 11:21 PM

He is pure devotee #1 of Krishna. It is very important that we all love and adore him.

Hare Krishna!

Shri Charu Chaitanya Maharaj!

He looks and sounds great and extraordinary. Do you know where any further info on Him can be found? His picture has that aura about it.....Perhaps He is coming straight from the Supreme.
Thanks Chief Cowpie for posting the item about Him. :)

sleeping jiva

10-30-2004, 09:59 PM

Ok. Cool! I just couldn't find anything about Krishna in the article. Remember if one's propagating himself more than Krishna, it's not a true guru.

BlackBillBlake

10-31-2004, 04:38 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear Sleeping Jiva,

I would ask you this: did Jesus Christ ever mention Krishna? And if not, are we to reject His message? He also put Himself forward on many occaisions 'I am the Light, the Truth and the Way' etc.
IMHO spiritual teachers, Gurus etc stand or fall entirely on their own merits and realization. In ISKCON are many who talk of Krishna all the time, whilst simultaneously engaging in many nefarious activities, aimed mostly at their own self-aggrandizement. Thus, their speaking of Krishna is useless, and they are misleading others.
With Sri Charu Chaitanyaji Maharaj, we know little about him, other than what the item posted by Chief Cowpie tells us - ( a web search turned up no further info) but when it mentions Srimad Bhagawat Katha, I think we can safely assume that Krishna is the centre of such Katha. If He cooses to elevate a boy of nine to this position, it is up to Him. 'Official spiritual masters' may object, but that simply shows their lack of true God-Consciousness.
Look at any average nine-year-old, then look again at Him. This seems to me like more of Krishna's play. It shows how mere book learning is quite insufficient - true Knowledge has to be realized. Perhaps this 'boy' is some great master returned here to help up-lift mankind. I don't doubt that we shall hear more of Him as time goes on.

Love,

BBB.

ChiefCowpie

10-31-2004, 05:18 PM

Ok. Cool! I just couldn't find anything about Krishna in the article. Remember if one's propagating himself more than Krishna, it's not a true guru.
dunno much about him... just thought the article was interesting... maybe he's a Rama bhakta and so he doesn't do much Krishna propagating

i believe all should be love and adored and so i honor his personage

SvgGrdnBeauty

11-01-2004, 03:21 AM

If He cooses to elevate a boy of nine to this position, it is up to Him. 'Official spiritual masters' may object, but that simply shows their lack of true God-Consciousness.
Look at any average nine-year-old, then look again at Him. This seems to me like more of Krishna's play. It shows how mere book learning is quite insufficient - true Knowledge has to be realized. Perhaps this 'boy' is some great master returned here to help up-lift mankind. I don't doubt that we shall hear more of Him as time goes on.

Love,

BBB.
I kind of agree with you...something so special coming from a nine year old...it seams to be perhaps something a little extraordinary... and its so easy to be suspicious because of the cheats and liars in this world...but just, at least once, can't we believe that amidst all the technology and higher learning...that there is still room for miracles, unexplainables....it almost seams that since we've come "so far" that we think we don't need any help...but I sure think we still do...maybe this time its coming from a nine year old boy for the shear fact that we need to swollow our pride...out of the mouths of the innocents come the keys to the truth....or something like that...

Hare Krishna!

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

sleeping jiva

11-01-2004, 01:46 PM

Ms. Nixon: How can one tell a bona fide spiritual master from a fake?

Srila Prabhupada: Whoever teaches how to know God and how to love Him--he is a spiritual master. Sometimes bogus rascals mislead people. "1 am God," they claim, and people who do not know what God is believe them. You must be a serious student to understand who God is and how to love Him. Otherwise, you will simply waste your time. So the difference between others and us is that we are the only movement that can actually teach one how to know God and how to love Him. We are presenting the science of how one can know Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by practicing the teachings of the Bhagavad-gita and the Srimad-Bhagavatam. They teach us that our only business is to love God. Our business is not to ask God for our necessities. God gives necessities to everyone--even to one who has no religion. For example, cats and dogs have no religion, yet Krsna supplies them with the necessities of life. So why should we bother Krsna for our daily bread? He is already supplying it. Real religion means to learn how to love Him. The Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.2.6) says,

sa vai pumsam paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhoksaje

ahaituky apratihata

yayatma suprasidati

First-class religion teaches one how to love God without any motive. If I serve God for some profit, that is business--not love. Real love of God is ahaituky apratihata: it cannot be checked by any material cause. It is unconditional. If one actually wants to love God, there is no impediment. One can love Him whether one is poor or rich, young or old, black or white.

BlackBillBlake

11-01-2004, 06:28 PM

So the difference between others and us is that we are the only movement that can actually teach one how to know God and how to love Him.
Hare Krishna!

I think it is necessary to be very careful about how we understand these words of Srila Prabhupada. I'm sure he doesn't mean to say that ISKCON is the only organization in the world that teaches love of God.
This must be so, as ISKCON has only been in existence since the 1960's when Prabhupada founded it.
Prior to this, there was the Gaudiya Math in India, they still exist, but have no connection to ISKCON.In fact, ISKCON denounce them loudly, along with their Guru, Sri Narayan Maharaj. Yet they are Gaudiya Vaishnavas, in direct line from Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
Also, there are the other Vaishnava sampradyas - all teach Bhakti, love of God.
And there are many other Gurus and Saints in India who have in the past, and even now are teaching Bhakti.
The Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox Churches also teach love of God, as I believe does Islam.

Today, I doubt one would learn much of true spirituality in ISKCON, as the so called spiritual masters are people with no qualification to teach others. Krishna is clear in the Gita - only a self-realized soul can impart this knowledge. Not some neophyte who has been voted in as 'guru' by the GBC or anyone else.

sleeping jiva

11-01-2004, 08:27 PM

hey, no, I didn't put the quote to argue with you. I agree completely. The organization shouldn't be more than Krishna. If a man talks of Krishna as a Supreme Personality of Godhead and he simply repeats the words of acaryas and Vedic scriptures without deviation and his own interpretation he is a guru. Everything can be exploited but if you simply follow the principles set by Srila Prabhupada you cannot be wrong

sleeping jiva

11-01-2004, 09:12 PM

http://vnn.org/usa/US0410/US19-8712.html

sleeping jiva

11-02-2004, 03:15 AM

and maybe mr. Kerry chants this in this moment to win an election:

SvgGrdnBeauty

11-02-2004, 06:50 AM

"Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all of the world pursues."
Chapter 3, Verse 21...

She read him very, very good advice... I hope that if he does get elected he reads that book...it changes states of mind...it changes lives...

ChiefCowpie

11-02-2004, 01:17 PM

USAOctober 19, 2004 VNN8712
http://vnn.org/img/wline.gif
US Presidential Candidate Kerry Receives Bhagavad-gita As It Is
http://vnn.org/img/wline.gif
BY KRSNA PREMA DASI
http://vnn.org/img/wline.gif
http://vnn.org/usa/US0410/kerry-bg.jpgFORT MYERS, FLORIDA, Oct 19 (VNN) — Krsna Prema dasi reads Bhagavad Gita As It Is to Senator John Kerry

During a recent trip to Southwest Florida to survey hurricane damage, US Presidential candidate Senator John F. Kerry met with Krsna Prema dasi on the tarmac along side the Kerry/Edwards campaign jet at Southwest International Airport in Fort Myers, Florida. Krsna Prema and her husband Bala das drove in the Senator's motorcade on a trip to talk to victims of Hurricane Charley.

Krsna Prema dasi gave Senator Kerry a reprint of the original copy of Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita As It Is and read to him from the famous passage in Chapter 3 Verse 21, "Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all of the world pursues."

Senator Kerry listened intently, holding the sacred book, following along as she read. He said, " That is very good. I like this." Krsna Prema dasi explained that President Carter had also received an exact copy of this book and quoted this passage during a speech. She told Mr Kerry that he was considered a great man and this book would be very helpful to him as a leader.

Senator Kerry gladly received the gift and thanked Krsna Prema. He took it with him as he fly off to his next campaign engagement in his bid for the White House.

</B>

thanks sleeping jiva... very nice

SvgGrdnBeauty

11-02-2004, 11:38 PM

"All conditioned souls of the world have got good and bad qualities. When bad qualities predominate, his nomenclature is 'bad person' and when good qualities predominate, his nomenclature is 'good person'. No conditioned soul can be without demerits. Only realized souls are perfect, but they are very rare. It is the instruction of our Guruvarga, if you are serious of getting progress in spiritual or devotional worship, don't see defects in other persons, see their qualities. The votary should see his own defects. Then he can rectify himself and there will be no fear of committing offence to any devotee. A Hansa (swan) has the capacity to take out the milk from the mixture of milk and water. Vaishnavas have got such qualification, for that they are regarded as 'Paramhansa'."

Srila Bhakti Vallabha Tirtha Maharaja

BlackBillBlake

11-03-2004, 12:14 PM

“Life is like a flooded river carrying with it in its mad rush all manner of struggling beings, men, women, children and animals as well as all manner of trees and wreckage, carrying them all down towards the sea of death. Things seem permanent because they are floating along with us, but all alike are rushing towards the end and not one of them can help us. Father, mother, friends, relations, not one of them can save us, for all are in the same flood. Only by reaching the bank can safety be attained. And the bank of this river is God, call Him by whatever name you will. Neither is the bank very far away. Hidden in our own heart, seated in the very midst of our being, is the Deathless, unchanging One, shining with brightness as of a million suns. None can describe Him, nor ever will, but He is there and He may, as the Gita says, be known and seen and entered into by those who strive to do so.”

“This is no fancy of poets, no myths or legend of long ago, no dream of white haired old men. It is the living truth, truer than all sciences and all history. It is knowledge of this truth that has given birth to all religions and it is forgetfulness of it that has lead to their corruption and death. It may be seen and experienced by us, too, not in some heaven after death but here and now in this very life. Therefore, as the Upanishad says ‘Arise, awake and seek out the Great Ones, They who will teach you the way to the Goal.”

Search for Truth – Sri Krishnaprem.

sleeping jiva

11-05-2004, 12:28 AM

how's it going you guys? Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

11-07-2004, 02:39 PM

how's it going you guys? Hare Krishna!Hare Krishna!

Dear Jiva,

I've been a bit busy with mundane matters for the last few days. Glad to say I now have more time.

http://img74.exs.cx/img74/5913/c4_1_b.jpg

SvgGrdnBeauty

11-08-2004, 04:54 AM

Andrew,

That's such a pretty picture... :) Thanks for sharing it...

sleeping jiva

11-09-2004, 05:24 AM

I have a question. How would you explain to a person that illicit sex makes you suffer?

BlackBillBlake

11-09-2004, 09:51 PM

I have a question. How would you explain to a person that illicit sex makes you suffer?
Hare Krishna!

Dear Jiva,

It would depend on the person you were trying to explain it to. But generally, there are two main lines of argument.
First, there is the idea that if one wants to practice yoga, then the senses have to be controlled. Quite simply, if we say the goal is to remember Krishna, then it is best to avoid that which deviates our concentration on Him..So if we just indulge in all these external pleasures then our consciousness will become fixed in them, not in God. We become addicted to sense pleasure, and many think this is all there is in life. We think this or that person will make us happy - and so they may, but only for a time! It is as Krishnaprem says in the short quote I posted here recently, none of these people can help us ultimately. There is only One who can help.
All this applies in the case of someone seeking to do yoga, to develop Love of Krishna.
There is also another line based more on social considerations. The only true basis for human society is the family. And this has to be ideally a stable unit, because that is essential for bringing up children in the right way. So it is good to have these values, even if they are not very fashionable here in the west. God's blessing is there on married sexual relationships.
If one goes too far down the path of sensual indulgence, it can have a very degrading effect on the whole being. That is my experience anyway.
Having said that, it is important to remember that people brought up in modern society are presented with sex as the 'greatest thing', 'the most wonderful possible experience' and so on. It is really the main focus of many people's lives. So one has to be careful. To try to move beyond sex before one is ready to do so is not wise, it can lead to imbalance, and also to self-deception, because if the desire is there, and the thought, then one is not really above or beyond sex. Only if there is a real inner impulse to give it up can it be done.
There is always going to be some difficulty in even speaking of this to people, because most take it for granted these days that the more sex the better!
At the risk of appearing the most unpopular person on these forums, I have to say I disagree fundamentally with this. I think the thing is so powerful and potentially destructive that it has to be kept within bounds.
And there are of course the dangers posed increasingly by STD's.
I hope this helps Jiva - its always worth remembering that where this yoga is concerned, one has to take it a step at a time. If one can't practice all the rules and regulations, just practice what you can, keep going, and gradually as Krishna sees what you're doing, progress is sure to come!

Blessings.

sleeping jiva

11-10-2004, 03:29 AM

OH prabhu Bill,

such a pleasure to read you every time. Yes, I agree very much with you. If you supress, it can lead to a disaster. Yet, sexual indulgence is like any other addiction. It leaves you empty. It doesn't take you anywhere. Thanks for help. :)

sleeping jiva

11-10-2004, 05:52 AM

If anybody wants to read a conversation between Allen Ginsberg and Srila Prabhupada go here:

http://prabhupadavani.org/Conversations/Text/002.html

It's really funny in some passages. They also mention the Jesus-Krishna link, which was discussed here a few months ago here on the thread.

BlackBillBlake

11-11-2004, 11:53 PM

Diwali.

There are so many celebrations in the Hindu year that Hinduism has been described as a religion of fasts, feasts and festivals. Diwali is a festival of lights, and clay oil lamps, or diyas, are lit in and around the house, giving the festival its name: Dipawali or Diwali, which means a row of lamps.

Everyone decorates their houses and friends and family are invited for a feast in which Indian sweets are particularly important. Rangolis – a traditional Indian art form, whose motifs are often linked with symbols of good luck – are drawn with different coloured powders on the courtyards and walls of houses to welcome guests.

The festival lasts four days, but the day of Diwali itself is considered an auspicious day for starting anything new, and marks the beginning of the financial year.

The first day of the festival commemorates the defeat the of the demon Naraka by Lord Krishna and his wife Satyabhama. On the second day, Hindus believe that Goddess Lakshmi will fulfil the wishes of her followers. On the third day the demon king Bali is believed to emerge from his exile and on the fourth day, sisters invite their brothers to their homes.

In Northern India, Diwali is seen as marking the return of Ram along with Sita and Lakshman from 14 years of exile after killing Ravana. To commemorate his return to Ayodhya, Ram's subjects lit up the kingdom and set off firecrackers. Gujaratis and Marwaris worship Goddess Lakshmi, and Bengalis worship Goddess Kali or Durga.

Happy Diwali!

BlackBillBlake

11-12-2004, 12:08 AM

http://img130.exs.cx/img130/3559/lakshmi_big.jpg

Sri Lakshmi

BlackBillBlake

11-12-2004, 12:11 AM

http://img51.exs.cx/img51/7427/durga01.jpg

Sri Durga

gdkumar

11-12-2004, 09:11 PM

HARE KRISHNA i

Dear all,

Wish you all a very HAPPY DEEPAVALI. It is a great pleasure to be back here on this auspicious day.

It is a wonderful feeling to read so many posts peacefully after a break of two months, it is good to see so many new names in. I am not sure who should welcome who.Anyway, I sincerely welcome all who joined after I had left in September.

We very often talk about DIVYA LILA(divine game) of our Lord, now I can clearly see it here, happening in this wonderful thread started by SJ. This thread is at a time serving so many purposes to all of us, for each one of us in a different way. This thread itself has become a path to realization to the true seekers. It is all in one.

Thanks to all the contributors, particularly CCPIE,BBB,SGB and ,of course, SJ.

With lots of love and best wishes,

Kumar.

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.

BlackBillBlake

11-12-2004, 10:31 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear GDKumar - How nice to see you back here again :)
Thanks for your kind words. May Ma and Sri Krishna continue to shower their blessings on you, and keep you safe on all life's journeys.

Love,

BBB.

ChiefCowpie

11-13-2004, 02:13 PM

Divali at Radhakund

Attached thumbnail(s)
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sleeping jiva

11-13-2004, 07:17 PM

welcome back gdkumar!!!

:):):)
hope u doin fine. your presence is welcome with pure joy :)

ChiefCowpie

11-13-2004, 08:48 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/~malati/radha-krishna.jpg

ANNAKUTA (GOVARDHANA PUJA)

From Siddha Sri Krishna Das Baba's Gutika
The day after Dipavali Nanda baba arranges for the Govardhana-brahmanas to perform the ceremonial bathing (abhiseka) of Giriraja Govardhana with five kinds of nectar - ghi (clarified butter), sugar-water, yoghurt, milk and honey - and makes them cook many kinds of sweets, rice, rotis, and vegetables. They place these preparations on big leaves in front of Govardhana Hill. In one form Krishna sits next to Nanda baba and in another, huge, form He sits on Giriraja and grabs all the offered foodstuffs at once with one very long arm, eating everything! On the other side small Krishna says: "Just see how Giriraja is eating everything!" Nanda and the cowherders look on in joyful amazement how Giriraja finishes his meal with a pan (betel-leaves) and accepts all the flower garlands and sandalwood paste which was offered by the Vrajavasis in huge amounts. Then the local brahmanas offer Giriraja a lamp in arati on a long spear.

Krishna and all the other cowherders offer their prostrated obeisances to Giriraja, who disappears after blessing everyone. When asked what will please him the most, Giriraja says: "I am most pleased when you circumambulate me!", so that's what they do. First the cows go, then the brahmanas (they are also worshiped on that day), then the older gopis, the older cowherds, the young gopis, Krishna and His chums and finally Nanda and Yasoda. After this parikrama of Govardhana Hill Nanda feeds all the brahmanas and gives them cows, gold, silver and garments in charity. Then he eats himself with his family and everyone takes rest in their tents. Radha and Krishna meet as usual in the Giri Nikunja, the mountain grove, returning to Their camps afterwards, and at midday They have Their usual fun at Radhakunda. Then Nanda baba has all the tents broken up and moved to Kaliyadaha in Vrindavana. There They have Their supper and Radha and Krishna have Their usual nocturnal fun at Vamsivata, Vrindavana on the bank of the Yamuna-river.

ChiefCowpie

11-13-2004, 08:50 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/~malati/govardhana-1.jpg

SRI SRI GOVARDHANASRAYA DASAKAM, VERSE 1

saptAhaM murajit karAmbuja pari-bhrAjat kaniSThAGguli
prodyad valgu varATakopari milan mughda dvirepho’pi yaH
pAthaH kSepaka zakra nakra mukhataH kroDe vrajaM drAg apAt
kas taM gokula bandhavam giri-varaM govardhanaM nAzrayet
Who will not take shelter of Govardhana hill. the best of mountains and the friend of Gokula, who protected the people of Vraja from the rains, that came from the mouth of the crocodile-like king Indra, like an innocent blackbee sitting on the seedhusk-like little finger of Sri Krishna’s lotus-like hand for seven days?Excerpts from Stavamrita Kana Vyakhya: In sadhakavesa Sripada Raghunatha reveals the glories of Sri Giriraja Govardhana in this Govardhanasraya Dasakam. In his Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu Srila Rupa Gosvami has mentioned that five of the sixty-four items of bhajana are extraordinarily powerful, and one of them is living in Vraja or taking shelter of Vraja-dhama.

The only abode where Krishna can stay enjoying purely sweet, intimate pastimes, that are devoid of even a whiff of reverence is this Vraja-dhama. But even within this Vraja there is again distinction between the different confidential pastime-places. Giriraja Govardhana is said to be at the summit by Srila Rupa Gosvami:

vaikuNThAj janito varA madhu-purI tatrApi rAsotsavAd
vRndAraNyam udAra pANi ramaNAt tatrApi govardhanaH
rAdhAkuNDam ihApi gokula pateH premAmRta plAvanAt
kuryAd asya virAjato giri-taTe sevAM vivekI na kaH
“Greater than Vaikuntha is Mathura, better than Mathura is Vrindavana, because the Rasa-dance took place there, better even than Vrindavana is Govardhana because it was touched by Krishna’s beautiful hand, and best of all is Radhakunda (the abode of Sri-Sri Radha-Madhava’s most passionate pastimes), which is inundated by the stream of nectarean love of the Lord of Gokula (Sri Krishna). Who will not serve this sacred pond at the base of Govardhana Hill?”

By calling Sri Giriraja Gokula Bandhava Sri Raghunatha reminds us of how Giriraja protected Gokula. The king of the demigods Indra had committed a great offense by accepting offerings from Sri Nanda, Upananda and other cowherds, that are worshippable even for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. To protect him from the grip of this offense and to establish the service and the glories of Sri Giriraja the merciful Lord stopped the sacrifice to Indra and had the sacrifice to Sri Govardhana commenced. The king of the demigods Indra, intoxicated as he was with pride of his opulences, was unable to understand this merciful pastime of the Lord and began to engage clouds like the Samvartaka, that are used to destroy the universe, to vanquish Gokula with showers of rain and thunderbolts. When these destructive storms and showers of rain, hail and thunderbolts began, the distressed Vrajavasis took shelter of their only resort, Sri Krishna.

kRSNa kRSNa mahAbhAga tvan nAthaM gokulaM prabho
trAtum arhasi devAn naH kupitAd bhakta vatsala

(Bhagavata 10.25.43)
“O Krishna! Krishna! O highly fortunate One! O protector of the devotees! O most powerful One! Please protect Gokula from the hand of Indra, who has become angry with us!”

Seeing that the Vrajavasis were suffering from Indra’s atrocious behaviour and hearing their distress-calls, Sri Krishna said: “With My own power I will protect the Vrajavasis, who are surrendered to Me, who are My proteges and who are My beloved relatives. My only vow is to protect the souls that surrender unto Me.” Saying this, Sri Krishna suddenly lifted the Govardhana Hill and playfully held it on His left hand, just as a child is holding a mushroom.

tasmAn mac charaNaM goSThaM man nAthaM mat parigraham
gopAya svAtma-yogena so’yaM me vrata AhitaH
ityuktvaikena hastena kRtvA govardhanAcalam
dadhAra lIlayA kRSNaz chatrAkam iva bAlakaH

(Bhagavata 10.25.18-19)
Sri Krishna easily held Giriraja with the little finger of His left hand, gave shelter to all the people and cows of Vraja beneath it and remained standing motionlessly like this for seven days.

Sripada Raghunatha says: “Sri Giriaja remained on the lotusseed-like little finger of Sri Krishna’s lotuslike hand like an innocent bumblebee”. This means that just as a kingbee, who is engaged in drinking the honey from a lotusflower, remains on the lotusseed in an intoxicated state, similarly Govardhana, who is the greatest of Lord Hari’s servants, got a place on Sri Krishna’s lotuslike hand for seven consecutive days and nights and remained absorbed there in relishing the mellows of the beauty of the lotuslike hand of his most dearly beloved. In this way he easily saved the Vrajamandala from the grip of the crocodile-like Indra, who was showering it vehemently.

ChiefCowpie

11-13-2004, 08:52 PM

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SRI SRI GOVARDHANASRAYA DASAKAM, VERSE 2

indratve nibhRtaM gavAM sura-nadI toyena dInAtmanA
zakreNAnugatA cakAra surabhir yenAbhiSekaM hareH
yat kacche’jani tena nandita janaM govindakuNDaM kRtI
kas taM go nikarendra paTTa zikharaM govardhanaM nAzrayet
What pious soul will not take shelter of the king of mountains, Govardhana Hill, who delights everyone and close to whom is Govinda Kunda, where Lord Hari was secretly bathed to crown Him as the king of cows with celestial Ganga-water by the Surabhi-cow of the humbled king Indra?
Exerpts from the Stavamrita Kana Vyakhya: For seven days and nights Sri Krishna stood and held up Sri Giriraja with steady hand. Like thirsty Cataka-birds the people of Vraja relished the sweet nectar of this black monsooncloud (Krishna) for seven days and nights.

Even the cows and buffaloes of Vraja were constantly engaged for seven days and nights in relishing the streams of nectar emanating from Giridhari Sri Krishna’s lustrous moon-like face, and so they did not feel any hunger or thirst. Who can then describe the ecstasy felt by Sri Krishna’s dearmost Vrajavasi gopis and gopas when they saw Sri Krishna’s face for seven days? Seeing that the gopas and gopis, who were standing in a circle under the mountain, were constantly drinking the nectar of the vision of Sri Krishna’s lotus-like face, mother Yasoda was filling Sri Krishna’s lotuslike mouth with butter and sweet rice every half hour.

Seeing Krishna’s glorious power, the heaven-king Indra became afraid like an elephant that is attacked by a lion, so he called his clouds back and fled back to his celestial abode. But alas! Could he find any peace there after offending the source of all peace, Sri Krishna? At every moment he expected Krishna’s faithful Sudarsana-disc to come and burn the heavenly planets and their inhabitants. “Or who knows what kind of harsh punishment may be my fate?” In the scripture Sri Gopala Campu it is described: ito gatva dainyam matva skhalad oja vidaujah ksayam gacchan apyasau ksayam rcchann iva sthitavannatu sacim acikamata. na ca nirjara sadasi nirjagama.

Humiliated, Devaraja Indra miserably returned to his heavenly abode, but when he came there he could find no peace. It was as if he whithered away each day in great fear. He found no more joy in the loving conversations with his wife Sacidevi or in the meetings of the assembly of demigods. He constantly spent his time in a solitary section of his abode Amaravati. When the guru of the demigods, Brhaspati, heard this he went to see him and chastised him, saying:

“O King of the demigods! Although you are victorious over all the demons, you can not make any spiritual advancement unless you worship the lotusfeet of Sri Krishna! Can any tree or herb stay alive without the aid of the moon? Although you have a thousand eyes, you are still blind! That is because you are suresa, (king of demigods, or one who is drunk of wine) and this intoxication, the intoxicating opulence of heaven, has blinded you!”

Hearing these chastising words of Brhaspati, Devaraja Indra replied: “O master! I’ve done a great mischief by trying to destroy Vrajabhumi! It was a great injustice! Now please tell me how to become free from the reactions to such an offense!”

Brhaspati said: “O Indra! Only Lord Brahma can advise you in these days of woe, so quickly go to him!”, so Indra went to see Lord Brahma and elaborately told him of the offense he had committed. Hearing the words of Devaraja, Brahma told him:

“Alas! Alas! Although you are the king of the demigods, you committed such a foolish offense! The wise men carefully block their ears when they hear about your misbehaviour even once! Nevertheless I shall advise you what to do, in order to protect my creation! Some time ago I became so impudent as to try to know the greatness of Sri Krishna, and even now I can not find the means by which I can be forgiven for that offense! But Gautama and other sages advised me to daily carress the cows, feed them grass and circumambulate them. By serving the cows, the Lord of cows, Govinda, will swiftly be pleased. Therefore if you want to satisfy the Lord, who is naturally a great lover of the cows, then go to the mother of cows Surabhi, otherwise the demons will surely cause fear and havoc in heaven!”

Hearing Brahma’s advice Indra swiftly went to mother Surabhi, told her about the offense he had committed and brought her along to Vraja-bhumi. The all-merciful Sri Krishna had already engaged His cowherdboys elsewhere and waited for Indra to come. Smilingly He sat on a jewelled boulder of Govardhana Hill when Indra slowly and shyly approached Him, offered prostrated obeisances unto Him and began to praise Him, sitting on his knees before Him and revealing all the great glories of Sri Krishna with a faltering fear-filled voice. After Indra had completed his praises of the Lord mother Surabhi also praised Sri Krishna and showered Him with her own milk. Devaraja Indra also had Krishna bathed, with a shower of celestial Ganga-water, pumped up by the trunk of his Airavata-elephant, and had Him named Govinda, or king of cows, in everyone’s presence. The water that had showered Govinda created Govinda Kunda, a lake that lies at the base of Govardhana Hill even today, delighting the eyes of everyone. Sripada said: “Which fortunate soul will not take shelter of Giriraja Govardhana, the restingplace of Govinda?”

ChiefCowpie

11-13-2004, 08:54 PM

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SRI SRI GOVARDHANASRAYA DASAKAM, VERSE 10

kAlindIM tapanodbhavAM giri-gaNAn aty unnamac chekharAn
zrI vRndA-vipinaM janepsita dharma nandIzvaraM cAzrayam
hitvA yam prati-pUjayan vraja-kRte mAnaM mukundo dadau
kas taM zRGgI kirITinaM giri-nRpaM govardhanaM nAzrayet

Who will not take shelter of the king of mountains, Govardhana who was honoured and formally worshiped by Mukunda as the crownjewel of mountains for the sake of protecting the inhabitants of wishyielding Sri Vrindavana, making Him leave aside the (worship of) Yamuna (river, the daughter of the sun), all other high mountains and even Hiss own abode Nandisvara?
Exerpts from the Stavamrita Kana Vyakhya: At the end of this stava Sripada Raghunatha mentions yet another one of Sri Giriraja’s glories to show the absolute necessity of taking shelter of Govardhana Hill. Although there are many pastime-places in the 168 miles circumference of Vraja-mandala that are endowed with great glory Sri Giriraja is the greatest because it is so dear to Sri Krishna. That can easily be understood, because of all the hills Sri Krishna chose the crownjewel of hills Sri Govardhana to protect the Vrajamandala with, stopping the sacrifice to Indra and initiating the worship of Giriraja instead. Just to establish the worship of Girraja the Lord expounded karma-vada (the path of action) to Nanda and the cowherds, that were accustomed to perform their traditional sacrifice to Indra. In this way He cleverly explained them the necessity of worshipping Giriraja. Hearing the nectarine words emanating from Sri Krishna’s divine mouth Nanda and the cowherds immediately developed faith in the worship of Giriraja, without argument. Being their livelihood, Giriraja was naturally the object of the Vrajavasis’ worship and devotion. This subject is described as follows in Sri Harivamsa:

dAmodara vacaH zrutvA hRSTAs te goSu jIvinaH; tad vAg amRtamAsAdya pratyUcur avizaGkayA
tavaiSA bAla mahatI gopAnAM citta-vardhinI; prINayatyeva naH sarvAn buddhir vRddhi-karI gavAm
tvaM gatis tvaM ratizcaiva tvaM vettA tvaM parAyaNam;
bhayeSvabhayadas tvaM nas tam eva suhRdAm suhRt

“Hearing Damodara’s words, the Vrajavasis became very happy. It is as if their fear vanished simply by drinking the nectar of His words. They told Sri Krishna: “O child of ours! Your excellent intelligence is benefiting the cowherd-clan and causes an increase in our wealth of cows, and thus it greatly increases the love of all of us! You are our only goal, the Vrajavasis are lovingly attached to only You, You alone know what is good for us and what is not. You grant us fearlessness when we are afraid, and You are our greatest friend.”

With great enthusiasm Nanda and the cowherds began to worship Giriraja with different paraphernalia. Govardhana, the crownjewel of mountains, accepted that worship and the great mountains on earth - Sumeru, Himalaya and so - also came there to worship Giriraja, taking different offerings with them.

govardhano ratna-zilA-mayo’bhUt suvarNa zRGgaiH paritaH sphuradbhiH
mattAlibhir nirjhara sundarIbhiH darIbhir uccAnGga karIva rAjan
tadaiva zailAH kila mUrtimanta sopAnayA meru himAcalAdyAh
nemur giriM maGgala pANayas taM govardhanaM rUpa-dharaM girIndrAH

(Garga Samhita)

“When sages like Bhaguri and Garga, who were brahmanas learned in the Vedas, began to worship Govardhana Hill, Govardhana manifested himself with many jewelled boulders and golden peaks. Intoxicated bees buzzed around the thick, flowering vines and there were beautiful cascades and caves there. Then mount Meru, the Himalaya and other great mountains came to offer their devoted obeisances unto him, bringing him auspicious presents. In this way Govardhana bore the form of the king of mountains!”

Then the Lord played another clever trick to reveal the superiority of Giriraja’s power and worship to everyone’s minds and eyes. When Nanda and the cowherds devotedly offered handfuls of flowers and a huge food-offering to Govardhana, Sri Krishna assumed a huge and most astonishingly beautiful form on top of the mountain and said: “O cowherds, headed by Nanda! I am Govardhana, and I have appeared because I am pleased with your worship and your devotional feelings!” Saying this, He began to eat the large amount of food, that was offered to Him by the Vrajavasis, with an amazing expertise.

From this we can easily understand that Sri Krishna did not display the power and the glory of any other place of Vraja-mandala in such a way. After this the Indra-puja was stopped and Indra, who had become very upset, began to shower Vraja-bhumi with devastating rains, planning to destroy it, causing the Lord to protect Vraja by lifting Giriraja.

ChiefCowpie

11-13-2004, 08:57 PM

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SRI VRAJA VILASA STAVA, VERSE 51

saptAhaM muramardanaH praNayato goSThaika rakSotsuko
vibhran mAnam udAra pANi ramaNair yasmai salIlaM dadau
gAndharvA murabhid vilAsa vigalat kAzmIra rajyad guhas
tat khaTTAyita ratna sundara zilo govardhanaH pAtu vaH
May Govardhana Hill, who was lovingly held upon the graceful hand of Sri Krishna, who was eager to protect Gokula for seven days, who was thus given the honour of a worshipable personality by the Lord, whose caves are coloured by the saffron that has fallen from Sri Gandharva and Giridhari’s bodies during Their loving pastimes and whose boulders are like beautiful jeweled couches for the Divine Couple to sit on, protect you.
Exerpts from the Stavamrita Kana Vyakhya: Sri Giriraja is Vraja’s saubhagya tilaka (the mark of glory and fortune), and because of him Sri Vrindavana is so lovely. aho vrndavanam ramyam yatra govardhano girih (Skanda Purana) By aborting the cowherders’ traditional sacrifice to Indra and by establishing the worship of Giriraja instead, the Lord has personally announced the glories of Giriraja to the world. He extended the net of logical arguments before His worshipable father Sri Nanda Maharaja to make him lose confidence in the worship of Indra and then preached the worship of Govardhana Hill. Finally Indra became angry and began to cause mischief to Vraja by pouring down rain and thunderbolts upon the area, and the Lord callously held up Giriraja with His left hand, thus protecting the people of Vraja.

One of Sri Krishna’s names is Muramardana, which means that He easily killed a demon named Mura, who was adverse to the demigods, headed by Indra. He could have protected Vraja through so many other means also, but just to establish the glories of Giriraja, Sri Krishna lifted His beloved mount and thus protected Vraja by providing its inhabitants, that were attacked by Indra, a place of shelter under it. Not only that, He Himself worshipped the Govardhana Hill with His lotushands for seven days and nights without interruption. Just as the means of worshipping the deity is laid down in the scriptures, that show how to make pure mudras with the hands, that indicate one’s expertise in ritual worship, similarly Sri Giridhari held Sri Giriraja on the little finger of His left hand and worshipped Giriraja as if He were a worshipper Himself, by holding it continuously for seven days and nights, showing pure mudras with His left hand. By thus personally worshipping Giriraja, who is also known as Haridasa Varya, the best of Hari’s servants, the Lord taught the people of the world how to worship a devotee.

Then Sri Raghunatha shows how Sri Giriraja Govardhana is the greatest of all of Lord Hari’s servants by saying: gandharva-murabhid vilasa vigalat kasmira rajyad guhas tat khattayita ratna sundara silo govardhanah patu vali “May Govardhana Hill, whose caves are coloured by the saffron that has fallen from Sri Gandharva and Giridhari’s bodies during Their loving pastimes, and whose boulders are like beautiful jeweled couches for the Divine Couple to sit on, protect you.”

There are many devotees known as Haridasa in this world, but no one like Giriraja Govardhana can offer a lovely playground to the Lord with his own body. The most lovely solitary caves of Sri-Sri Giriraja are decorated by the saffron that has fallen off Sri-Sri Radha-Madhava’s bodies during Their amorous pastimes, and this shows that the most intimate pastimes of the Divine Pair take place there. In this way Sri Giriraja has become blessed by carrying hundreds of charming caves and groves on his body, that are decorated with Sri-Sri Radha-Madhava’s necklaces, bangles and garlands, that were broken during Their amorous battles. Srimat Rupa Gosvami has written:

gAndharvAyAH keli kalA bAndhava! kuJje kSuNNais tasyAH kaGkaNa hAraiH prayatAGga
rAsa krIDA-maNDitayopatyakayADhya! pratyAzAM me tvaM kuru govardhana pUrNAm

(Stavamala)
“O Govardhana! You are the assistant in Gandharva Sri Radha’s artistic pastimes, your body has been decorated with Sri Radha’s broken bangles and garlands and Your valleys have been enriched by having been adorned with Sri Radha-Krishna’s Rasa-pastimes. Please fulfill all my desires!”

ChiefCowpie

11-13-2004, 09:15 PM

happy GovadhananA puJa!!!

Burbot

11-14-2004, 11:34 PM

What does "Jai Sri Krsna" mean?

BlackBillBlake

11-15-2004, 12:58 PM

What does "Jai Sri Krsna" mean?
"Victory to Sri Krishna"

BlackBillBlake

11-15-2004, 01:09 PM

Bhakti Yoga is a real, genuine search after the Lord, a search beginning, continuing and ending in Love. One single moment of the madness of extreme Love of God brings us eternal freedom.

Bhakti Yoga does not say “give up”, it only says “Love; love the Highest”; and everything low naturally falls of from him, the object of whose love is the Highest.

In Bhakti Yoga the first essential is to want God honestly and intensely. We want everything but God, because our ordinary desires are fulfilled by the external world. So long as our needs are confined within the limits of the physical universe, we do not feel any need for God; it is only when we have had hard blows in our lives and are disappointed with everything here that we feel the need for something higher; then we seek God.

Bhakti is not destructive; it teaches that all our faculties may become means to reach salvation. We must turn them all towards God and give to Him that love which is usually wasted on the fleeting objects of sense.

Leave inimical thoughts aside if you want to have permanent Bhakti. Hatred is a thing that greatly impedes the course of Bhakti, and a man who hates none reaches God.

Get the mercy of God and of His greatest children; these are the two chief ways to God. The company of these children of light is very hard to get; five minutes in their company will change a whole life, and if you really want it enough, one will come to you. The presence of those who love God makes a place holy, “such is the glory of the children of the Lord”. They are He; and when they speak, their words are Scriptures. The place where they have been becomes filled with their vibrations, and those going there feel them and have a tendency to become holy also.

Swami Vivekananda.

http://img108.exs.cx/img108/1746/swamivivekananda.jpg

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 01:48 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

Spirited but Mischievous He came to be known as Swami Vivekanda only when he became a sannyasi or monk. His parents called him Narendra. His father was Vishwantha Datta and his mother Bhuvaneshwari Devi. Narendra was born on 12th January 1863 in Calcutta. As a child he was very lively and naughty.

When Narendra stepped into boyhood, his naughtiness grew. He was a natural leader of the children in the neighborhood. His companions bowed to his decision always. Once a landlord threatened the children saying, "There is a demon in the tree and he swallows children." Narendra was not impressed by this threat. He settled down on a branch. The other boys took to their heels. Narendra waited for several hours, but the demon did not appear. So, he declared that the landlord's story was a spoof. Narendra loved to tease his sisters. Meditation, too, was a sport to him. But as he meditated he became oblivious of the whole world. Not even a lizard or a snake moving near him could disturb his concentration.

Even as a child Narendra had great respect for sannyasis or ascetics. He would give away anything to anybody if asked for. On his birthday, he would wear new clothes, wouldn't he? If a beggar asked for alms he would give away the new clothes. From that day, his mother would lock him up in a room whenever a beggar passed by the house. But every beggar knew Narendra's nature very well. So beggars would stand near the window of Narendra's room. He would throw to them anything he had. The spirit of sacrifice and renunciation was already blossoming in him.

In her leisure time his mother would tell him the story of the Ramayana. He could not sleep unless she told him a story. Then he would be all ears, forgetting his study and play. He had great reverence for Lord Hanuman. Once he sat before the idol of Lord Shiva, with his body all smeared with ash. His perplexed mother asked him, "Naren, what's all this?" He smiled and said, "Mother, I'm Lord Shiva." The mother feared that her son would become a sannyasi, like his grandfather.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 01:50 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

Greatness Foreshadowed Narendra's father was a lawyer. So every day his house used to be crowded with his clients belonging to different castes. The house was like an inn; the clients had breakfast and lunch there. It was the custom to provide the guests with hukkas (long pipes) o smoke after food. There was a different pipe for clients of each caste. Narendra wondered what would happen if he smoked the pipe mean for people of a different caste. Finally he experimented nothing untoward happened. He concluded that caste had no meaning.

The maxim "The child is father of the man" was entirely true of the compassionate boy, Narendra. Once there was a display of physical exercises in a localgymnasium. Accidentally an iron bar fell on a sailor among the spectators. He fell down unconscious. The people who had gathered there ran away lest the police should question them. Narendra, with the help of two friends of his, gave the wounded sailor first aid. Then he took him to a doctor. He even raised some money for the wounded man. On another occasion Narendra pulled out one of his friends who had been caught under the wheel of a coach drawn by horses. Likewise he helped a little boy who was a total stranger. The boy was lying on a road with high fever. He took him home. Narendra never knew what fear was.

It was not that Narendra excelled only in sports; he was quick and alert in his studies as well. After a single reading he could remember any lesson. His memory was amazing. Concentration was the key to his success in studies.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 01:55 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

The Parent Whenever Vishwanath Datta found time he would give his son advice. "You need fear no one so long as you keep to the path of truth and Dharma (Virtue). One should not be browbeaten. One should guard one's self-respect. Love of one's religion should not mean hatred of others religions. Patriotism is essential for man's welfare. Foreign enemies may invade a country, but they cannot take away people's ancient and potent culture." He loved to listen to his son's sweet voice. Narendra's face would become radiant when he sang devotional songs.

His mother was dear to Narendra as his own life, and to him she was a veritable goddess. In his eyes, there was no one as ready to make sacrifices as the mother. She must have the highest place not only in the home but also in society. He had great respect for his father too. But this did not come in the way of his freedom and independent thinking. He gave expression to what he felt even about his father. "Hospitality is certainly a great virtue. But is it right to feed the lazy? Is it right to provide them with cigarette and pipe to smoke?" This he would often question his father. But his father would say, "You do not understand their misery, my boy. When they much tobacco, they at least for a while forget the bitterness of their life."

By 1880, Narendra passed his Matriculation and Entrance Examination. He joined a college. Day by day, his thirst for knowledge increased. He would borrow from the library books not related to the prescribed courses and read them, and so satisfy his thirst. HE was particularly fascinated by the secrets of God's creation. Apart from history and science, he was well read in Western philosophy. As he advanced in his studies, his thinking faculty developed.Doubts anduncertainties overtook him. He gave up blind beliefs but could not realize the Truth.

He placed his doubts before eminent scholars and sought their guidance. These scholars excelled in debate. But their logic did not convince Narendra. Their line of thinking was stale. It did not convince him, for none of them had direct experience of God.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 01:59 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

In Search Of the Guru Sri Ramakrishna was a priest in the temple of Goddess Kali. He was not a scholar. But he was a great devotee. It was being said of him that he had realized God. Scholars who went to him became his disciples. Once, Narendra went with his friends to Dakshineswar to see him. Sri Ramakrishna sat surrounded by his disciples; he was immersed in discussions about God. Narendra sat in a corner with his friends. All at once Sri Ramakrishna's mind was in turmoil. He was thrilled. Indistinct thoughts upset his mind. Memories of an earlier meeting seemed to stir in him. For some time he sat still as if in a trance. Narendra's attractive figure and shining eyes filled him with wonder. "Can you sing?" he asked Narendra. Narendra sang a couple of Bengali songs in a melodious voice. As he listened to the music, the Bhagavan went into a trance. After some time he took Narendra into a room. He patted Narendra on the back and said, "My child, why are you so late? I have grown weary, waiting for all these days. I wanted to share my experiences with the right person. You are not an ordinary man. You are Lord Vishnu in human form. Do you know how much I have been craving for you?" And he broke down.

Sri Ramakrishna's behavior puzzled Narendra. He thought the elderly man was mad. "Will you come again? Promise me you will", pleaded Ramakrishna. Eager to escape from him, Narendra said, "Yes".

After the Bhagavan finished his discourse Narendra asked him,"Have you seen God?" "Of course I have. I have seen him just as I'm looking at you. I have even talked to him. I can show him to you. But who is yearning to see God?" replied Ramakrishna. Narendra said to himself, "Till today no one had told me he had seen God. This man looks mentally deranged; possibly he is even mad. However, it is not proper to judge without investigating."

A month passed. Narendra went alone to Dakshineswar. Ramakrishna was resting on a cot in his room. He was pleased to seen Narendra; him sits on his cot. He went into a trance and put his leg on Narendra's lap. Narendra forgot the outer world. He felt that he was dissolving. He shouted, "What's this you are doing to me? My parents are still alive. I should go back to them." Smilingly Sri Ramakrishna said, "Enough for today," and drew back his lap. Narendra became normal once again.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 02:05 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

The Attraction and The Test As days passed, each was attracted towards the other. Neither could bear to be parted from the other. It did not take a long time for Sri Ramakrishna to realize the greatness of Narendra. Moreover, he was guided by the will of Goddess Kali. But young Narendra would not accept Ramakrishna as his guru without a test. Ramakrishna used to say that, in order to realize God, one should give up the desire for money and women. One day Narendra hid a rupee under his pillow. Sri Rama krishna, who had gone out, came into the room and stretched himself on the cot. At once he jumped up as if bitten by a scorpion. When he shook the mattress, the rupee coin fell down. Later he came to know that it was the doing of Narendra.

Narendra was Ramakrishna's favorite disciple. But he would not accept as gospel truth all that Narendra said. Narendra was highly critical of people who worshipped idols. He rejected the theory of "Advaita" (monism). He had no faith in mystic experiences. Advaitic assertions such as "I am Brahman", "I am Shiva" did not impress Narendra.But Sri Ramakrishna would always bring him back to the right path by saying, "There are many roads to reach a destination. No one has the right to say that the path the other man takes is not the right one. It is improper to pass judgement on anything that one does not understand."

One day Sri Ramakrishna took Narendra to a secluded place. He said, "I have attained some powers after a long period of meditation. They will give whatever a man wants. I have given up all desire, and so I have no use for these powers. Shall I bestow these powers on you?" "But will they help me to realize the Self?" - asked Narendra. "No," said Sri Ramakrishna. "Then I do not want them. More than anything, I want to realize God." Narendra's reply filled Ramakrishna with joy. The Master had tested Narendra, and Narendra had passed the test.

Gradually Narendra turned towards renunciation, giving up all worldly desires. The parents came to know of this. He was then studying for his BA degree examination. They planned to bring him back to worldly life through marriage. Sri Ramakrishna became unhappy on hearing this. HE advised Narendra that if bound by family ties, he would not be able to serve mankind. At times, Narendra would lose faith in Ramakrishna would first touch him with his hands. Then Narendra would lose contact with the world around. When he regained consciousness he would surrender to his Guru's teaching. Thus the Guru gradually gifted all his powers to the disciple.

In 1884, Narendra passed the BA degree examination. A friend of his hosted a party. As Narendra was singing at the party, the news of his father's death came like a bolt from the blue.

Poverty hit the family immediately after the father's death. The moneylenders began to harass the family. Some of them even went to a court of law. Narendra wandered far and wide looking for a job. His clothes were tattered and torn; and it was difficult even to get one meal a day. Many a day he fasted so that his mother and his brothers and sisters might have something to eat. HE would tell them that he had eaten with a friend. Sometimes he would faint with hunger and fall down in the street. But in spite of such overwhelming misfortune he never lost faith in God. Sri Ramakrishna would console him saying, "You are here to serve mankind and do mother Kali's work. You should be brave."

One day he said to himself: "God gives whatever my Guru seeks. So it is best to seek my Guru's help." He went straight to his Guru and said, "On my behalf kindly pray before the Goddess to rid me of this poverty. She will give you whatever you wish for, won't she?" The Guru said, "My child, you have no faith in Her, why then will she listen to my prayer? You approach Her yourself. Then she will fulfil you need." So in the dead of night Narendra stood before the idol of Goddess Kali. He lost himself in deep meditation. He begged the Goddess, "O Mother, bestow on me the spirit of renunciation. Let me see you, that is all I beg of you." When he came out, the Guru asked, "Did you submit your prayer to Her? And what did She say?" Narendra said in dismay, "O! Forgot about it completely." "Then go back and ask Her," said the Guru. Again he forgot to speak about his poverty in his prayer to the Goddess. Again the Guru sent him. Back came Narendra and the same thing happened. The Guru's joy knew no bounds. "My child, you should not crave for only food and clothes. They are not the ultimate goals of man. Have faith in God. He will look after the welfare of your family," said the Guru.

Later Narendra took up the profession of teaching. For some time he taught in the Vidyasagar School. Now the family had at least enough food. While he worked as a teacher he continued his study of law. His Guru's health broke down. Sri Rama krishna developed a tumor in the throat. Narendra gave up both his hob and his studies and devoted all his time to nursing his Master.

Once, while Narendra was in meditation he shouted, "Where is my body?" Others had to touch his body and convince him of its existence. When Sri Ramakrishna heard this episode, he was happy that at last his desire to find a worthy disciple had been fulfilled.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 02:08 PM

The Guru Is No More

The disciples nursed the Guru to the best of their ability. But the thought that the Guru would not recover from the illness agonized them. His end was drawing near. On the last day he called Narendra to his bedside and touched him. He invested Narendra with all his spiritual powers. He said, "Naren, now you are all-powerful. All these are my children. It is your duty to take care of them." These words filled Narendra's heart with grief. He went out of the room weeping like a child.

After the passing away of Sri Rama krishna, the young disciples went to live in a rented house in Baranagar. Although old, the house was far away from the noise and bustle of the city; and it was on the banks of the river Ganga. It was very close to the tomb of Sri Ramakrishna. So, the Mutt (monastery) was opened there. The young monks had two goals-salvation and the service of fellow men. Some young men left their homes and became monks and joined the Mutt. Narendra became a monk and headed the institution. The young sannyasis were unmindful of lack of food and clothing. But even when they fasted they did not neglect their studies and meditation. Narendra taught his brethren Sanskrit and Philosophy. To visitors he expounded the teachings of the Master.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 02:11 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

Pilgrimage As a sannyasi, one cannot be tied to a particular place. Even the Mutt is a kind of a prison. Attachment to a particular place is also wrong. It was the great good fortune of India that Narendra took to sannyasa and became ' Vivekanda'. Bharat became his home and its inhabitants his brothers. The sacred task of wiping the tears of his unfortunate brothers was dear to his heart. He had to travel all over the country. His assets were - a saffron robe, 'Kamandalu' (an ascetic's waterpot) and 'danda' (staff). On his way he visited many holy places. He lodged at huts and choultries and slept on the bare ground. He satisfied his hunger by begging for food. He was in the company of sadhus, spending the time in religious discussions and holy rituals.

He traveled on foot or by any vehicle whose driver was hospitable. Varanasi was the first city that Vivekanda visited. During his stay there, he met many scholars and exchanged ideas with them. In philosophical disputations he triumphed over them. In Ayodhya, his imagination pulsated with the memory of Sri Rama and Seta. In Agra the Taj filled him with wonder. On his way to Brindavean, he smoked a hukka borrowed from a passer-by that was a fisherman; he drank water in a pariah's house; begged for alms and accepted food from a cobbler. As he stepped into Brindavan (where Lord Krishna is believed to have lived) he was in ecstasy.

At Alwar, some Muslims became his disciples. While Swamiji used to eat in their houses, he became acquainted with Maharaja Mangal Singh. Initially the Prince had no faith in the Swami. There was a heated debate between the two. "Swamiji, I have no faith in idol worship," said the Maharaja. The Swamiji replied, "An idol is only a symbol. It is not something to sneer at. Every devotee has his own way of realizing God. It depends on the individual's devotion." The Prince was not satisfied with Swamiji's explanation. There was a portrait of the Maharaja on the wall. The Swamiji asked the Diwan (chief minister) by his side, "Whose picture is that?" "The Maharaja's," replied the Diwan. Vivekananda said, "Spit on it." The Diwan was taken aback. "Why are you unhappy?" asked the Swamiji. The Diwan thought this man was certainly mad. Swamiji explained: "After all, the photograph is just a shadow of your Maharaja. It is devoid of flesh and blood." "But then it reminds us of the Maharaja, does it not?" said the Diwan. Wisdom then dawned on the Maharaja. He apologized to the Swamiji. Later the Swamiji went to Mount Abu, passing through jaipur and Ajmer. He spent some time in tapas (prayer and meditation) in a cave.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 02:13 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

Some Experiences While Swamiji was travelling by train, in Rajasthan an interesting incident took place. He was resting in a second class compartment. Two Englishmen were profusely hurling abuses at him. They were under the impression that the Swamiji did not know English. When the train reached the station. Swamiji asked an official, in English, for a glass of water. The Englishmen were surprised; they asked Swamiji why he was silent though he could understand them. Swamiji snapped back, "This is not the first time I have met fools." The Englishmen were enraged, but Swamiji's formidable physique silenced them.

During his travel, Swamiji could travel by train only if somebody bought him his ticket. Otherwise, he had to travel on foot. He had to starve most of the time for he had no money. Once it happened that a merchant travelling with him was helping himself to varieties of eatables. Swamiji was hungry and tired. But he did not beg for food. The merchant spoke to him tauntingly and said, "You are an idler. You wear the saffron clothes only because you do not want to work. Who will ever feed you? Who cares if you die?" Just then, a sweetmeat seller offered Swamiji some eatables and said, "I saw you in my dream this morning. The Lord Sri Rama himself introduced you to me." The haughty merchant was put to shame when he saw all this.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 02:14 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

Plans To Go To America In Mysore, Swamiji got to know Diwan Swshadri Iyer and also the Maharaja of Mysore. The Swamiji's discourse in Sanskrit at a gathering of scholars deeply impressed the Maharaja. One day he questioned the Swamiji as to his future plans. "India is the land of many religions and schools of philosophy. The Western world has progressed in science. Human welfare is possible only by a reconciliation of the two. Therefore, I want to go to America in order to propagate Vedanta," said Swamiji. The Maharaja said, "Then I shall bear all the expenses of the visit." Swamiji thanked the Maharaja for his offer and promised him that he would make use of it when he needed it, and took leave of him.

Swamiji next visited Ramanad. Bhaskara Setupati was the ruler of Ramanad at that time. He discussed with Swamiji the problems that the country was facing. The prince treated him with great respect. "You should attend the Conference of World Religions in America. I shall bear all your travel expenses," said the ruler. Assuring the prince that he would give serious thought to his suggestion, Swamiji went to Rameshwaram and from there he finally reached Kanyakumari. He swam to a rock and sat on it. Surrounded there by the sea, he reflected on the state of affairs in India. The thought of the poverty of the masses in this country made him miserable. He decided that unless casteism was rooted out, there could be no salvation for his countrymen. He concluded that his first task was to go Western countries and expose the spiritual values of India. He would then return to awaken his own slumbering land.

It was in Madras that the little lamp that appeared in Bengalis Narendra became the blazing light of all India asVivekananda. It was there that pressure mounted on him to go to America. The fame he won in Madras traveled to Hyderabad. Thousands gathered at the meeting addressed by him there. It was the first ever-public meeting addressed by Swamiji.

After he returned to Madras from Hyderabad, he started makingpreparations for his tour abroad. Contributions towards his travel expenses poured in from all parts of the country. But he kept with him only as much money as he needed for the journey. He returned the rest of the money to the donors.

sleeping jiva

11-15-2004, 02:15 PM

Burbot: oh man, I like your I love God pic.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 02:18 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

On Foreign Soil Swamiji reached the city of Chicago in the middle of July. On his way he touched at the ports of Colombo, Singapore, Hongkong and Tokyo. He chose a hotel for his stay. He made inquiry about the opening of the Conference of World Religions. It was still three months away. How was he to stay so long in s strange place? The money he had was fast disappearing. Meanwhile, an international fair was going on. Swamiji was wandering in the premises of the fair. Just then he spotted a Maharaja from India. He approached the Maharaja. But the Maharaja turned away with wry face.

Since Chicago was a big city and very expensive, Swamiji moved to the nearby city of Boston. On the way he met a lady. She was from Boston. She was amazed at Swamiji's strange attire, his magnificent physique, and his bright eyes. She decided that he was no ordinary man. She begged Swamiji to be her guest. He agreed. Occasionally he addressed meetings at small clubs. The subject of his talk was Indian Culture and the Hindu Dharma. Gradually many scholars became his friends. Once of them was John Henry Wright University. He was greatly impressed by Swamiji's scholarship. The delegates to the Conference of World Religions had to submit their letters of introduction to the organizers. But Swamiji had lost his letter of introduction. Wright himself wrote the letter of introduction, in which he called Swamiji "A scholar who surpasses all of us professor."

Swamiji went back to Chicago. When he reached the city he found that he had lost the addresses of some people. The people of the city were mostly Germans and could not understand English. As a consequence, Swamiji could not stir out. Finding no way out, Swamiji curled himself in an empty box, which was lying in the railway station. The next morning he wandered about in the streets. Unable to bear his hunger, he begged for alms at some houses. He could not get anything. On the contrary he was insulted and humiliated. He was sitting on the footsteps of a playground. A lady came out of a house facing the playground and asked him, "Are you a delegate to theconference of World Religions?" The Swamiji replied, 'Yes'. The lady said, "Please come to my house. You can bathe and have food. Then I shall take you to the Conference." Her name was Mrs.George Hails.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 02:21 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

Thunderous Response The conference state on 11th September 1893. Thousands of delegates belonging to deferent countries of the world had gathered at the conference. Vivekananda was the youngest of them all. When it was his turn to speak, his throat went dry. Besides, he did not have, like the other delegates, a prepared speech. He requested the President to let him be the last speaker, His turn did come as the last speaker, He prayed fervently to Sri Ramakrishna and Mother Sharadadevi, and stood up to speak.

When he began his address in his pleasing voice with the words "Brothers and Sisters of America," there was a thunderous applause; it lasted for a full three minutes. When it subsided at last he continued his short speech. He said that people born in different religions finally reach the same God, as river born in different places finally reaches the sea. He emphatically declared that no religion is superior and none is inferior. The delegates, every one of them, praised his speech. Newspapers carried his photographs and his speech. In later days people flocked chiefly to listen to his speech. He became the darling of the crowds. Whenever he rose to speak there was deafening applause.

Even as the conference was in session, many institutions and associations extended invitations to Swami Vivekananda. Rich people begged Vivekanda to honor them with a visit.Within a short time he became world famous. Wherever he went, he dwelt at length on the greatness of Indian Culture. He spoke with spontaneous ease on every topic, be it History, Sociology, Philosophy or Literature. He deplored the malicious propaganda that had been unleashed by the Christian missionaries in India.

"He speaks without a scrap of paper in his hand. We see in him some of the qualities of Jesus himself. A strange attire, a radiant personality, a rare elegance, the skill to epitomize Hinduism superbly-with these gifts he has won the hearts of our people. He is mesmeric. He is unsurpassed in conversation. His mastery of English is exceptional. A man like him appears only once in age. We are fortunate that we can see him and hear him, "- thus the newspapers went into raptures.

Till then Americans had the impression that Indians were superstitious and ignorant. Thanks to Swamiji's persistent efforts, India was elevated to an honored position not only in America, but in the entire comity of progressive nations.

Wherever Swamiji went, people flocked to listen to him and waited patiently. After the speech they would invite him to their houses and treat him as an honored guest. They would entertain him lavishly. At such times, Swamiji was constantly and painfully reminded of the poverty and squalor of India. The opulence around him would become unbearable. He spent many a sleepless and tearful night.

Meanwhile, he received pressinginvitations from England. A rousing reception awaited him in London when he arrived there. The newspapers were all praise for the Hindu Yogi's oratory and outlook. Many became his disciples. Among them was Margaret Nivedita'. She came to India and settled here.

Swami Vivekananda returned to India after his foreign tour lasting four years.

ChiefCowpie

11-15-2004, 02:24 PM

SWAMI VIVEKANANDA

Fulfillment By the time he arrived in India, Swamiji's fame had spread far and wide. When he landed in Colombo on 15th January 1897,he was accorded a welcome that befitted and Emperor. When he reached Madras there was an unprecedented crowd at the railway station. He was carried in procession in a coach drawn by an admiring crowd. Innumerable addresses and garlands were presented to him.

Thereafter, wherever Swamiji went, he disseminated the message of his master. To those who came to him for guidance he taught the importance of spiritual development. To his fellow monks he explained the importance of dedicated service. He repeatedly told them that it was mere selfishness to look for personal salvation. He used to say, "I do not want salvation, as long as there is a single sorrow-stricken man in India." He had realized that social service was possible only through the concerted efforts on an organized mission. That is why he started Sri Ramakrishna Mission in 1897 and formulated its ideology and goal. During the next two years he bought a site at Belur on the banks of the Ganga, constructed the buildings and established the Ramakrishna Mutt.

The body is no more, but the voice is deathless. Swamiji's health was constantly eroded owing to tireless work. He visited many hill resorts in the Himalayas. But even there his missionary work continued. He visited many cities in North India in response to public demand. He visited America again at the invitation of his American disciples. He participated in the Conference of Religions n Paris and returned home.

In spite of the entreaties of his disciples he would not rest. He became more inward looking. The body grew weak, but the mind and the soul remained alert and active.

On 4th July 1902 he performed his daily routine. He taught his disciples as usual. He rested for a while after food; after some time he had a shock. He spent a pleasant time talking to his followers and even cracking jokes. That night at nine 'o' clock he looked tired and his hands were trembling. He cried and sat up. He breathed a deep sigh and went to sleep. Within a short while he attained eternal bliss. His disciples and fellow-teachers felt orphaned and cried like children.

Although Swamiji is no longer with us, his words live. His message has continued to inspire millions of his countrymen. His voice can comfort the suffering and sanctify their lives.

Listen again: "You rejoice that you belong to the race of the great sages. But until those who belong to the upper classes help to uplift the downtrodden, and until exploitation ends, India will only be a grave. May Mother India step forth anew from the humble dwelling of the peasant! May she appear in the hut of the fisherman! May she step forth from the cottages of the cobbler and the sweeper! May she become manifest in godowns and factories! May the song of New India echo and reverberate amidst mountains and in forests and valleys!"

BlackBillBlake

11-15-2004, 06:37 PM

BlackBillBlake

11-15-2004, 06:53 PM

Swami Vivekananda's complete works can be found at

http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/

http://img37.exs.cx/img37/135/vol_2_pic.jpg

http://img37.exs.cx/img37/8476/vol_5_pic.jpg

Hare Krishna!

gdkumar

11-15-2004, 09:38 PM

HARE KRISHNA !

Dear ChiefCowpie,

I do not know what to say, thank you for your wonderful endeavour to let us all know about the Maha Jivan(Great Life) of Swami Vivekananda. He was the light of Thakur Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa, Thakur being the pot, oil and the wick.

Please keep up the good job of conveying the good words that we all wait to hear. Thank you again .

With lots of love and best wishes,

Kumar.

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.

gdkumar

11-15-2004, 09:42 PM

HARE KRISHNA!

Dear BBB,

Thanks for your kind post. Your post on Sex was very good and convincing.

Running out of time. With love,

Kumar.

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.

gdkumar

11-15-2004, 09:50 PM

HARE KRISHNA!

Dear SleepingJiva,

Brother, thank you for your kind post. It is so nice to see the thread is growing up so beautifully with branches and flowers and believe me, I can see some fruits even. It is going to be an epic-thread. Please keep up the good job.
My time is running out. I shall come back again after one month. With love,

Kumar.

HARE KRISHNA HARTE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.

SvgGrdnBeauty

11-15-2004, 10:43 PM

Wow...my computer croaks for a week and look at all the wonderful posts!

I wish I could read them all, but alas, I'm short on time because I'm at the library...but thank you all for the ones I did read and I hope that I can get to read them soon. Hare Krishna! And all my best wishes to you all (and welcome back Kumar! :) )

Hopefully I can stay longer soon!!

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

gdkumar

11-15-2004, 10:52 PM

HARE KRISHNA!

Dear Sgb,

Nice to read you post here again. My time is up.

With love,

Kumar.

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 01:38 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear Chief Cowpie,

Thanks for posting the story of Swamiji's life.:)
In his youth, Sri Ramakrishna said of him "Narendra is a lion among men!" Many have found inspiration in his words, and it is to be hoped that many more in the future will continue to do so. He is a messenger from God.

Love,

BBB.thank you Black Bill...

have you ever heard of Margaret Nivedita from Ireland who became Swami Vivekandas disciple? A number of years ago, I had her life story and teachings presented in a six volume series of books and found it most inspirational reading. I am particuarly attracted to westerners who are able to find relevance and purpose in eastern teachings so as to make what is foriegn, integral.

and too, thank you Gdkumar and nice to see you are well and finding inspiration here and in life... happy trails

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 01:43 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

Introduction

Young Margaret Nobel came under the spell of Swami Vivekananda. She came from distant Ireland to India to serve the people of this land. She was given the name of ‘Nivedita’ as one dedicated to God. She became a teacher to little children and their mothers. When plague or famine or flood ravaged the land she became the very personification of compassion and service. Nivedita is the deathless symbol of sacrifice and service.

Author - Prabhu Shankara

Nivedita

At a time when this land of ours was beset with troubles, quite a number of people of the west came of their own free will to help us. One of these was Miss Margaret Nobel, popularly known as Nivedita, who came to India from Ireland.

In those days Ireland, like India, was a country fighting for her freedom. John Noble was the priest of an Irish Church. Nearer to his heart than all else were his God and his motherland. His son Samuel Nobel, who was also a priest, married a lovely young lady, Mary Hamilton. It was of these parents that Margaret, who later became Nivedita, was born on October 28, 1867.

From her grandfather Margaret inherited measureless courage and boundless patriotism, while from her father she inherited tremendous compassion for the poor. And from her mother she inherited not only her great beauty but her tenderness and sympathy.

Margaret often went with her grand father and her father to the homes and novels of the poor and joined them in rendering service to them. Thus, even from her earliest years, service became her constant companion.

One day a certain friend of Margaret’s father paid a visit to the family. He, too, was a preacher and had returned home after having served in India as a priest. He felt drawn to little Margaret whose mind was as keen as her figure was beautiful. When he said good-bye, he told his little friend, "India, my little one, is seeking her destiny. She called me once, and will perhaps call you, too, some day. Always be ready for her call." These stirring words thrilled the little girl’s heart and lighted up her eyes.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 01:45 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

"When The Call Comes"

Samuel’s work was toilsome but his income meager. Even out of his slender means he gave away his utmost to the less fortunate among his flock. Overwork and care undermined his health. Samuel was just thirty-four when death claimed his precious life. At the last moment he called his devoted wife and whispered in her ears, "When the call comes from Heaven, let Margaret go. The little one will reveal her talents and do great things."

Soon after her husband’s death Mary went with her children to her parental home in Ireland. Her old parents gave all their affection to their orphan grandchildren yet brought them up under strict discipline.

Some years passed. The grand parents sent Margaret and her sister to the Halifax Colette, where the two girls were resident boarders of the college hostel. Discipline was the watchword of the place. Life there was all discipline - rigid, severe discipline. But the sisters loved their studies. Margaret grew fond of music and art. She took keen interest in biology.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 01:46 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

As a Teacher

1884. Margaret was now seventeen, a beautiful young woman, with charming manners and a dignified bearing. Her education was over. She yearned to teach little children. She easily got a teacher’s post at Keswick. Filled with joy she entered upon life, beginning as a small teacher, only to become a great teacher.

To teach tiny tots is no easy task, as children are fond of play. They must be made to learn even as they are playing. Margaret felt drawn to this challenging task. She tried several experiments to make her teaching not only successful but interesting. In 1892 she started popular. People got to know that Margaret was a brilliant teacher.

A Welsh youth, who was an engineer, was attracted by Margaret. Their friendship, growing more and more intimate, finally turned into love. They became engaged. Unfortunately, the young man became bed-ridden with a serious illness, which soon tool his life. Margaret was plunged in grief. Yet she bore it up bravely by applying herself more and more to her schoolwork and her studies.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 01:47 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

Finding the Guru

1895 – the momentous year that changed the very course of Margaret’s life.

Lady Isabel Margesson, a friend of Margaret, invited her to her home to meet an Indian monk on the following Sunday. Margaret has herself described her experience on the occasion. A majestic personage, clad in a saffron gown and wearing a red waist-band, sat there on the floor, cross-legged. As he spoke to the company, he recited Sanskrit verses in his deep, sonorous voice. His serene face, his dignified bearing and his divine voice cast a spell upon the listeners, who felt electrified by his frequent utterance of the name of "Siva, Siva!" Margaret, however, who had already delved deep into the sacred lore of the East, found nothing quite new in what she heard on this occasion. What was new to her was the personality of the swamiji himself.

Margaret found out that this rare Swamiji with his magnetic personality was none other than Swami Vivekananda who, two years before in 1893, had attended, uninvited, the Parliament of Religions held at Chicago. His inspiring address at the Parliament had captured millions of American hearts.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 01:49 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

"Awake!"

Margaret at first remarked that there was nothing new in what the Swamiji had said. But in her own heart of hearts she knew that it was not so. The sayings of the Swamiji kept returning to her mind and haunted her. "God alone is the truth," he had asserted. This assertion might not be new, but the Swamiji's conviction was indeed quite new. And he had made another assertion: "Every religion is a highway to God." And the radiance of his personality! There seemed to be a veritable halo about him. He had given up everything for god., His sayings were not mere repetitions from books. They were living words, which sprang from the depths of his soul, charged with the Truth he had seen and experienced.

Margaret came more and more under the spell of Swami Vivekananda. Now like a thunderbolt blasting its way along and burning up centuries of superstition, and now like a chisel chipping away at the ages-old darkness of ignorance; now like the mantras of a great guru awakening the soul of his disciple from its sloth and torpor, and now the mystic sayings of a realised souls sweeping away all the doubts of his disciple. Now like the sincere,frank advice of a devotedcomrade and now like the tender comfort of an affectionate mother, the Swamiji's galvanizing words welled up from the depths of his soul. It was his flaming virtue, the glowing purity of his spirit, that had captured her heart and turned her into a servant of his country for his sake, she wrote later.

One day, in midst of his discourse, the Swamiji said in a thundering voice: "What the world needs to-day is twenty men and women who dare stand in the public street and declare that they have nothing to call their own except the God. Who is there among you that can say so?"

Margaret's heart seemed to whisper, 'Here I am! But her tongue was yet too timid to utter those words. One day, speaking about the woman of India, the Swamiji said, "Our girls over there have not even seen the face of a school. That land of ours cannot advance unless they are educated." Then, turning at once towards Margaret, he said, "I have certain plans relating to the education and the welfare of the women of my country. I believe that you can be of great service to me in translating them into reality."

Margaret felt overwhelmed by the Swamiji's faith in her. Yet she had misgivings whether she was equal to such a mighty task. Sensing her mind, the Swamiji reassured her: "You have the making in you of a world-mover, and others will also come…Awake, awake, great one!"

Margaret took the heroic resolve to leave her own dear homeland and make the Swamiji's far-off homeland her own, and render her utmost service there.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 01:51 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

India's Call

Teaching, reading, discussion everything had now lost its interest for Margaret. The Swamiji's voice was always ringing in her ears. It seemed to her that India was calling her, unceasingly, insistently. She felt that it was darkness all around and only in the east there was a streak of light. And that streak of light seemed to be reaching out to her and beckoning her. "Your place is there in India," the Swamiji had said, "but that can be only when you are ready."

But was it so easy to make herself ready? The Swamiji himself had graphically spoken of India to her. He had made her see India in all her squalor. Poverty, ignorance, jealousy, filth - these had free play everywhere in that country. The British would look down upon her. The Indians would treat her with suspicion and dislike; they were people who treated their own fellow countrymen as untouchables. It was to serve the women and educate the girls of such a country that Margaret was being called. And they were women, so conservative, so narrow-minded, that they would not let her even cross their orthodox thresholds. As for education, would they ever allow their precious daughters to be taught by a woman of an alien faith?

It was at such a moment of doubt that she received from the Master this heartening message: "It is not a man we need but a woman; a real lioness, to work for the Indians, women specially….

"India cannot yet produce great women, she must borrow them from other nations. Your education, sincerity, purity, immense love, determination, and above all, the Celtic blood, make you just the woman India needs.

"You must think will before you plunge in, and after all your toil, if you fail in this or get disgusted, on my part I promise you I wi8ll stand by you whether you work for India or not, whether you give up Vedanta or remain in it. 'The tusks of the elephant come out but never go back'; so are the words of a man never retracted.''

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 01:54 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

On Indian Soil

The boat bringing Margaret to India reached Calcutta on January 28, 1898. Swami Vivekananda came in person to the port to give an affectionate welcome to her. She soon familiarized herself with the city where she had to work and started making the acquaintance of the people among whom she had to live. And she lost no time in learning Bengali, and studying Bengali Literature; for a command of Bengali was essential for her to communicate with, and ultimately win the confidence and affection of, the people around her.

A few weeks later, two of Swami Vivekananda's women disciples in America, Mrs Sasrah c. Bull and Miss Josphine Mac Leod arrived in India. The three soon became fast friends.

Their cottage became an ashram. Everyday Swami Vivedananda came there, either with some of his brother monks or alone. The moment he entered, the place became charged with a Holy Spirit. The inspired Master addressed the disciples for hours. His theme was India, her history, her saints, her heroes and heroines, her epics, her puranas, her poets, architects, sculptors and other artists, and above all, her great sages. Under the Swamiji's spell, the listeners forgot the world, forgot themselves, and, as they listened, they re-lived those glorious ages.

One day, Miss Mac Leod asked: "Swamiji how can I best serve you?"

At once came the reply, "Love India, serve her, worship her. That is prayer, that is worship, that is everything."

Margaret took the Swamiji's answer as his message for her too.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 01:56 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

Nivedita

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, the god-man of Dakshineswar, was the Guru of Swami Vivekananda. He had passed away in 1886. His saintly wife, Sri Sharada Devi, whom all the pramahamsa's devotees revered as the Holy Mother, blessed them all, and inspired them to noble endeavor and heroic achievement.

Margaret had an irresistible longing to meet the Holy Mother. But she had her own apprehensions. Would the Mother, who had been brought up in the traditions of Hindu orthodoxy, receive her and her comrades who were not only foreigners but Miechchas, or members of an alien faith? But Sri Sharada Devi was the very embodiment of love and scantily. She received Margaret, Sarah Bull and Macleod as her own children.

The 25th of March f1898 was for Margaret the holiest and most unforgettable day of her life. That was the day on which her Guru dedicated her to God and to the service of India.

It was a Friday. Swami Vivekananda took all there of them to the Math, Leading Margaret into the shrine, he taught her how to worship Lord Shiva according to the prescribed ritual. He then asked her to offer worship, unaided. To be invested by the Master himself with the authority to perform the rites of worship was a unique privilege, a matchless blessing. Margaret was in ecstasy. The Swamiji then initiated her ceremonially into the order of celibacy. He gave her the name of 'Nivedita', which means 'the Dedicated One'. He commanded her to place lotus flowers at the feet of Lord Buddha. Then, in tremulous voice, he gave her his benediction and message: "Go thou, my child, go. Tread thou the path shown by that Great Soul who was the very embodiment of compassion and sacrificed himself for others in five hundred lives before he attained the status of the Buddha."

During that summer the Swamiji stated for Almora in the Himalayas, taking with him Nivedita and other disciples. During the journey the party looked like a moving guru-kula; for it was a regular cycle of instruction, discourse and meditation, right through.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 01:58 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

The School - An Experiment

On November 13, 1898 Nivedita stated her school in a small way in a rented cottage.

The very personality of Nivedita commanded respect. Her stately, handsome figure, dressed in a long, flowing, snow - white gown, held firm with a silk waist - band lent her a certain majesty which heightened her natural dignity and grace. The rudraksha rosary around her neck gave her a saintly look. It is recorded that whenever Nivedita came to address a gathering, people spontaneously rose to their feet and gave her a standing ovation.

The school was no doubt started, but the problem for Nivedita was to find pupils. She went from door to door and had long arguments with parents to overcome their projudices against sending their girls to school. "Putting girls to school? What an ideal!" exclaimed the shocked parents. A good many openly jeered at her. Nothing daunted, Nivedita persisted in her search and succeeded at last in roping in a few girls of varying ages. She taught them to read and write, and instructed them in drawing, painting and claymodelling.

Nivedita loved all the people around her sincerely and deeply. Their resistance's were soon broken and they welcomed her into their hearts and into their homes. Moving about freely among these households, she gradually became a member of their families. To everyone in north Calcutta she became Sister Nivedita.

Once an unfortunate mother came running to Nivedita, sobbing bitterly; and dragging her by the hand, she cried frantically, "Come, sister, hurry at once. My last child is dying even now!" Nivedita ran to the place, led by the poor mother. But even as they were entering the house, the child breathed its last. The house, the child breathed its last. The unhappy mother held the baby to her breast and wailed aloud for hours. And, at last, she folded Nivedita to her bosom and cried, "O sister! What shall I do? Where is my darling gone?" And in her tender accents Nivedita consoled the mother, saying, "Hush, mother. Your child is with the Great Mother: She is with Kali!"

When Nivedita reported this incident to the Master, he gave her a new and inspiring message: " Worship even death, Nivedita, worship the terrible, even as you would worship the beautiful!"

Nivedita took the Master's message to heart. She now realised that death was but the other face of life. And this new realisation of hers was soon put to the test.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 02:00 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

Plague in Calcutta

In March 1899 a devastating plague broke out in Calcutta and spread like wild fire all over the city. The fell disease took a toll of hundreds of lives every day. Deeply distressed, Nivedita plunged into action in order to save the city from the grip of the dire menace. She started sweeping the streets and cleaning the drains. Bengali youths, unused to any kind of manual labour, and accustomed to look upon scavenging as dirty work, just sat and watched for a while, though they felt guilty at their won inaction. The women, put to shame, ran into their homes. But it was not long before all of them girded up their loins and came to the aid of their loins and cam to the aid of their beloved sister. Thus did Nivedita teach the people of Calcutta their first lessons in sanitation, self-help and social service, not by precept but by practice.

Nivedita formed a committee of social workers in order to fight the plague on a well- organized basis. Squads of earnest and devoted workers fanned out in all directions and not only cleaned all the streets and lanes but nursed the victims. Nivedita worked round the clock, often-foregoing even food and rest. Her health was seriously impaired, and she became worn out.

She ran from home to home, hoping against hope to overtake and frustrate death. Often, however, to her great grief, death forestalled her and frustrated her noble design. On one occasion, the victim, a mere boy, died in her motherly lap. At such times, Nivedita stayed on with the unfortunate bereaved for hours together, offering them her consolation and sympathy.

Nivedita and her team incessantly carried on their formidable effort for full thirty days before they succeeded in bringing the enemy to his heel. In the meanwhile, Nivedita had literally saved hundreds of victims from the very jaws of death, staking her very life in the process.

All through these gruelling days Nivedita lived on fruit and milk, and nothing more. She had to give up even milk on one occasion to save the money for the medicines needed by a plague victim.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 02:02 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

A Pilgrimage to the West

Nivedita’s school was just limping on for want of funds. Even to draw pupils was arduous enough; where was the question of collection any fee ? And the problem was to run the school and have enough left just to support her life. Would it be proper to go to the west in order to collect the funds needed for her work here? She sought the Master’s advice and was relieved to find that he gave her his hearty approval. Nivedita sailed for Europe in the middle of June 1899.

From the Europe she went to America. Her Original aim was just to raise enough funds for her small school. But, upon her arrival in America, she found that the urgent task was to educate the Americans about India and her glorious culture.

A Great deal of false and malicious propaganda had been carried on against India and her religions by some Christian missionaries who had grown extremely jealous of the tremendous impact on the west of Swami Vivekananda’s powerful address at the Parliament of Religions and of the growing popularity of Hinduism, especially of the Vedanta, not only in America but in Europe. They had been systematically painting a totally misleading picture of India by blowing up her poverty, ignorance and superstition out of all proportion. These evil doings of so called men of religion were, she felt, an outrage against Christ himself. Like the Master, she went on a whirlwind tour of the states and addressed huge gatherings in all the principal towns and cities in order to educate the Americans about the real state of India at the time, the greatness of her past, the sublimity of her cultural and spiritual heritage and above all, the true causes of the present degradation. She was a gifted orator. She had steeped in India’s history, her religions and her scriptures. In living words, charged with truth and invigorated by her sincerely, she dipicted India in vivid colours. The audience felt a deep regret that they had let themselves be totally misled by pious frauds. They were thankful to Nivedita for revealing to them the very soul of India.

She had succeeded in making America realise that India’s degradation was essentially due to their long subjection to foreign rule. But she had not gained substantial success in raising funds for her school and for her other work in India.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 02:04 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

The Master is No More

Nivedita returned to India in 1901.

She now took up lodgings at No.17, Bosepara Lane, which became henceforth both her home and her school. It became, in addition, a veritable centre of pilgrimage for all the eminent personages of the time-political leaders fighting for the country's freedom, men of intellect.

About this time a young lady from Germany, named Miss Christine Greenstidel, came to serve India and joined Nivedita. Her assistance was very valuable to Nivedita.

Nivedita's school began its work again. This time it was not only girls who came to receive instruction, but even their mothers. It was extremely difficult to meet the expenses of the school. Like Nivedita, Christine too had to undergo great privation. But with a firm resolve they kept up the struggle and carried on their endeavor of educating girls and women.

1902-the darkest year in Nivedita's life. She went to see the Master at the Belur Math. That was on June 29. In the course of the conversation the Swamiji remarked, " A great austerity and meditation are coming upon me. I am getting ready for death." The 2nd of July was an Ekadasi Day. Nivedita felt an irresistible urge to see the Master again. When she was announced at the Math , the Swamiji was filled with joy. He was himself fasting. Yet he got a meal ready for Nivedita and personally served it to her. After she had her meal, he assisted her to wash her hands by pouring water, and then despite her protests, he dried her hands with a towel. Deeply pained, she demurred; "Swamiji, it would be proper for me to serve you thus, not to receive such services at your hands."

He answered: "Jesus washed the feet of his own disciples, didn't he?"

"Yes, but that was in his last moments," she tried to say. But the words failed her.

That day the Master's entire being was transformed with his love, when he gave his chosen disciple his blessing. The joy she felt at this made her forget her recent pain. She went home, feeling blessed.

Poor Nivedita little knew that this was to be her last meeting with the Master. His Christ - like service to her, not less than his clear allusion to Jesus, was indeed significant.

The Swamiji attained Mahasamadhi on the night of July 3.

On July 4, even as the day was breaking, the heart - breaking message was brought to Nivedita. She staggered under the blow. The Master whom she adored, her all in all, her sole stay and support in life, the Guru who had given meaning and direction and purpose to her earthly existence, was no more. The light was gone. All was dark.

She ran to the Math and, sobbing her heart out, she paid her homage to the Master. The profound serenity of samadhi was upon his face.

Seated by the Master, she fanned his face until 2 p.m.

Vedic mantras were chanted. The Swamiji's body was carried in procession to the banks of the Ganga and offered up to the flames. Cries of "Jai Swamiji!" Swami Vevekanandaji Ki Jai!" rent the air and rose to the heavens.

The millions that had gathered at the cremation ground melted away in a few minutes. The scene was all deserted. Nivedita sat there, all alone, with no thought of her surroundings, with a faraway gaze.

The Master was no more. To whom could she go henceforth for counsel and support? From whom could she seek solace?

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 02:09 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

Flight for India's Freedom

It was not in Nivedita's nature to go on brooding, lamenting and despairing. The message instilled in her by the Master was not one of feebleness and fear, but of confidence and courage. As a lioness springs into action, shakes her mane and marches majestically on with her thunderous roar, so did she rouse herself, shake off her grief and anguish, and, assuming the mantle of leadership, gave to India and the world her ringing message.

Onerous was the burden laid on her by the Master. She must be true to him and fulfil her trust. It was in this spirit that she resumed her life of strenuous toil. Mother India became an object of adoration for her, and the liberation of India her life's mission.

She had once believed that Britain and India could remain friends. But she came to realize that it was a delusion. For she could plainly see that Britain was not only draining the very lifeblood of India but, in her imperialistic insolence, choose to hurl insults upon India's noblest sons.

Two incidents gave her a rude shock. Jagadish Chandra Bose, the world renowned Indian scientist, was an intimate friend on Nivedita. She had witnessed with joyful pride how in France the highest honors were conferred upon him. But in Britain he had not been accorded the honour that was due to him. Again, when Bipin Chandra Pal, the great Indian nationalist, rose to address an American gathering, someone among the audience leapt to his feet to hurl insulting words at him. "Mr. Pal, let your country attain freedom first. You can come and lecture later."

The very recollection of these incidents were enough to make Nivedita's blood boil. The conviction grew upon her that, until India gained political independence, Indians could never hope to be treated like men. So this women, who was the whitest among the whites, vowed to fight, in thought, word and deed, for the liberation of a country which she had adopted as her own mother land. The power of her tongue and the power of her pen she dedicated to the sacred cause of India's struggle for freedom.

All over Bengal Nivedita's name became a household word. Addressing mammoth meetings in several meetings in several important places like Patna, Lucknow, Varanasi, Bombay, Nagpur and Madras, she sounded the clarion call of freedom. The British grew furious, but could not venture to silence her. On the contrary, several distinguished persons of Britain like Ramsay Macdonald, who was to become Britain's Prime Minister, and Lady Minto, whose husband later became the Viceroy of India, visited her small school and commended its excellent work in extending education to India's womanhood.

Nivedita made her school the very centre of nationalism. Bankim Babu's famous national anthem, Vande Mataram, became the prayer song in her school. She changed over to Khadi. With her it became a daily practice to spin on the charaka; following her noble example, her pupils, too, practised spinning every day.

It was Nivedita again who brought about a revolution in Bengali art. Instead of being true to Indian culture or to their own inspiration, India culture or to their own inspiration, Indian painters of the day had become just imitative; they copied western models. Nivedita admonished them for this mentality and kept on goading them to retain their Indianness. She encouraged gifted artists like Abanindranath Tagore, Nandalal Bose and Asita Haldar by even providing them with funds; this enabled them to make a pilgrimage to Ajanta, Ellora and other centres of art in order to seek inspiration from the great Indian artists of the past. Under Nivedita's powerful influence there was a remarkable flowering of Bengali art.

Everything Indian became for Nivedita an object of adoration. She wrote books in order to interpret for Indians their own national heritage. She upheld, by reasoned argument, ancient institutions like idol worship, religious and national festivals and other holy days; she revealed the greatness of our sublime epics and the sacred Puranas; and, above all, she pointed out the uniqueness of our scriptures. She thus made Indians learn to be proud of those priceless things of which they had come to be needlessly ashamed.

Nivedita's life had now become one continuous round of political consultations and campaigns, public meetings and addresses, writing books and carrying on hectic correspondence. These not only took up all her time but sapped all her vitality. Her circle of friends, followers, and admirers also went on growing. To the Holy Mother she became the darling daughter. To the Paramahamsa's direct disciples she was an object of great affection and regard. To Rabindranatha Tagore she was an unfailing source of inspiration. To eminent political leaders like Surendranath Bannerjea, Gopalakrishna Gokhale, Rams Chandra Dutt, Bipin Chandra Pal and Aurobin Ghosh, she was a philosopher and friend. And to the youth of the nation she was a veritable idol.

The greatest of the nation's leaders, Balagangadhar a Tilak and Mahatma Gandhi, came to her and paid their respects.

Nivedita's life was thus a real saga of service and sacrifice, of achievement and fulfillment.

ChiefCowpie

11-16-2004, 02:11 PM

SISTER NIVEDITA

The Swan Song

Through her unbroken, unending toil Nivedita wore herself out. She knew not the meaning of rest. People exploited Nivedita and did not take the trouble of enquiring what she herself needed.

In 1905 she wads seriously ill. Her close friends, especially the monks of the Ramakrishna Ashram, tended and nursed her. She rallied-for the time being. But she would not rest, little caring to save her wasting body. The British Government partitioned Bengal and this resulted in a great agitation. Nivedita jumped into the fray. Next year, East Bengal experienced devastating floods. This was followed by famine. For miles Nivedita waded through the water and rendered service to the victims of flood and famine, in village after village. She harnessed the youth of Bengal in organizing relief for the affected people.

Her health grew much worse. But unmindful of her own state, she went on serving the poor and saving the distressed.

When her health was very bad, she made her will. All that she had in this world by way of property, the little money she had with her, and even the copy right over her writings, she left to the Beleur Math. She wanted that her bequest should be used to give national education to the women of India.

October 13. It was morning. Nivedita was in Darjeeling The sun, which had for days been hiding its face behind the dark clouds, suddenly appeared this morning, and its rays entered Nivedita's room. She was absorbed in deep meditation. Opening her eyes to the sunshine, she murmured: "This frail boat of mine is sinking, but I can yet see the sunrise". These were the last words of this noble soul.

It was not, however, just a boat that had sunk; it was a mighty ship. The sunrise that she was was the kind of illumination which only the like of her can see.

Sir J.C. Bose founded his famous Institute for research. There, in Nivedita's memory, he got installed the image of a woman stepping forward, lamp in hand.

In the lap of the Himalayas rests the earthly form of this great lady. Over her grave is erected a humble memorial which bears this simple epitaph.

"Here reposes Sister Nivedita who gave her all to India".

But it is the little school that Nivedita had set up that has grown to be he living monument. Thousands and thousands of girls and women are receiving a truly national education in that noble institution.

BlackBillBlake

11-16-2004, 05:35 PM

thank you Black Bill...

have you ever heard of Margaret Nivedita from Ireland who became Swami Vivekandas disciple? A number of years ago, I had her life story and teachings presented in a six volume series of books and found it most inspirational reading. I am particuarly attracted to westerners who are able to find relevance and purpose in eastern teachings so as to make what is foriegn, integral.

and too, thank you Gdkumar and nice to see you are well and finding inspiration here and in life... happy trails
Haribol Chief!

Its great that you are posting the story of Sister Nivedita here, as well as Swamiji's life. She is surely an inspiration to all who read of her life or her own words. She was as we know very dear to Vivekanada.
I fully agree and empathize with what you say about westerners who have made eastern paths of spirituality their own. I also think that today, all these paths are open to us because of those who have gone before. They, I mean peolpe like Sister Nivedita, are pioneers. In this context, I can't let the opportunity pass to mention again Sweet Mother, Mira Alfassa, the yogic partner of Sri Aurobindo. As I'm sure you know Chief, but others may not, She was a Frenchwoman of mixed Egyptian and Turkish descent who became one of the greatest yogi's of the age.
Also, I have managed to get hold of a copy recently of 'Yogi Shri Krishnaprem' by D.K.Roy (mentioned in an earlier post of Kumar's to this thread). This book is absolutely wonderful. Sri Krishnaprem is a unique and shining example of what you're talking about here Chief. An englishman who became a true Bhakta and Jnanai of the highest order, a respected freind of such luminaries as Sri Aurobindo, Ramana Maharishi and others, and who became one of the very few westerners to attract Indian disciples. I can't reccommend this book too highly.
But Chief, please keep up all these great posts of yours here! I am sure many would love to know more about all of this - but they don't know where to look - well, if they look over this thread, they're going to get some inspiration!

Hare Krishna,

Love,

BBB.

sleeping jiva

11-17-2004, 12:15 AM

I know that Srila Prabhupada was strictly criticial about Sri Ramakrishna, Maharishi and other impersonalists, I just read a conversation where he said that even though they say this world is maya, they're perfect masters in enjoying this maya. What do you think of that? Do you think Srila Prabhupada was wrong? I dunno what to say. I don't understand the articles you submit about these people. What is the link between Hare Krishna and them? Why do you post it in this thread? Hope I don't sound too disrespectful.

BlackBillBlake

11-17-2004, 11:45 AM

Some words of Sri Ramakrishna.

"How can you say that the only truth about God is that He has form? It is undoubtedly true that God comes down to earth in a human form, as in the case of Krishna. And it is true as well that God reveals Himself to His devotees in various forms. But it is also true that God is formless; He is the Indivisible Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute. He has been described in the Vedas both as formless and as endowed with form. He is also described there both as attributeless and as endowed with attributes.

"Do you know what I mean? Satchidananda is like an infinite ocean. Intense cold freezes the water into ice, which floats on the ocean in blocks of various forms. Likewise, through the cooling influence of bhakti, one sees forms of God in the ocean of the Absolute. These forms are meant for the bhaktas, the lovers of God. But when the Sun of Knowledge rises, the ice melts; it becomes the same water it was before. Water above and water below, everywhere nothing but water. Therefore a prayer in the Bhagavata says: 'O Lord, Thou hast form, and Thou art also formless. Thou walkest before us, O Lord, in the shape of a man; again, Thou hast been described in the Vedas as beyond words and thought.'

"But you may say that for certain devotees God assumes eternal forms. There are places in the ocean where the ice doesn't melt at all. It assumes the form of quartz."

KEDAR: "It is said in the Bhagavata that Vyasa asked God's forgiveness for his three transgressions. He said: 'O Lord, Thou art formless, but I have thought of Thee in my meditation as endowed with form; Thou art beyond speech, but I have sung Thee hymns; Thou art the All-pervading Spirit, but I have made pilgrimages to sacred places. Be gracious, O Lord, and forgive these three transgressions of mine.' "

MASTER: "Yes, God has form and He is formless too. Further, He is beyond both form and formlessness. No one can limit Him."

Sri Ramakrishna.

ChiefCowpie

11-17-2004, 02:14 PM

Do you think Srila Prabhupada was wrong?
I think Bhaktivedanta Swami was of high devotion and had wonderful insights and empowerment from God. At times he was brilliant and at other times, yes, as you put it, he was wrong.

But for me and you, the bigger teaching is not that someone whom we consider divine was wrong but that each and everyone of us must decide what is our Truth and not to have another's understandings dogmatically dictated to us by another and that we are blind followers. We must reason through and questioned all and thus evolve in our understanding.

The truth for me is, if one can't see God...see Krishna actively and fully consciously at work in the exemplary lives of Ramakrishna, in Vivekananda, in Sister Nivedita, then the problem is with them and not these great souls.

BlackBillBlake

11-17-2004, 05:11 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear Chief,

I agree 100% with what you say above. I would just like to add this short quote from Swami Vivekananda:

"The one great advantage of Bhakti is that it is the easiest and the most natural way to reach the great divine end in view; its great disadvantage is that in its lower forms it oftentimes degenerates into hideous fanaticism. The fanatical crew in Hinduism, or Mohammedanism, or Christianity, have always been almost exclusively recruited from these worshippers on the lower planes of Bhakti. That singleness of attachment (Nishthâ) to a loved object, without which no genuine love can grow, is very often also the cause of the denunciation of everything else. All the weak and undeveloped minds in every religion or country have only one way of loving their own ideal, i.e. by hating every other ideal. Herein is the explanation of why the same man who is so lovingly attached to his own ideal of God, so devoted to his own ideal of religion, becomes a howling fanatic as soon as he sees or hears anything of any other ideal. This kind of love is somewhat like the canine instinct of guarding the master's property from intrusion; only, the instinct of the dog is better than the reason of man, for the dog never mistakes its master for an enemy in whatever dress he may come before it. Again, the fanatic loses all power of judgment. Personal considerations are in his case of such absorbing interest that to him it is no question at all what a man says — whether it is right or wrong; but the one thing he is always particularly careful to know is who says it. The same man who is kind, good, honest, and loving to people of his own opinion, will not hesitate to do the vilest deeds when they are directed against persons beyond the pale of his own religious brotherhood.

But this danger exists only in that stage of Bhakti which is called the preparatory (Gauni). When Bhakti has become ripe and has passed into that form which is called the supreme (Parâ), no more is there any fear of these hideous manifestations of fanaticism; that soul which is overpowered by this higher form of Bhakti is too near the God of Love to become an instrument for the diffusion of hatred."
Swami Vivekananda.

I'm not saying this applies to Srila Prabhupada - it may apply to some followers. But we have to guard against any tendency to think that our way is the only way. I don't like to see one Sadhu criticizing another. Prabhupada, Ramamkrishna, Vivekananda, Holy Mother Sarada Devi, Nivedita are all great.

BlackBillBlake

11-17-2004, 05:27 PM

Thakur: "With sincerity and earnestness one can realize God through all religions. The Vaishnava will realize God, and so will the Saktas, the Vedantists, and the Brahmos. The Mussalmans and Christians will realize Him too. All will certainly realize God if they are earnest and sincere.

"Some people indulge in quarrels, saying, 'One cannot attain anything unless one worships our Krishna', or, 'Nothing can be gained without the worship of Kali, our Divine Mother', or, 'One cannot be saved without accepting the Christian religion.' This is pure dogmatism. The dogmatist says, 'My religion alone is true, and the religions of others are false.' This is a bad attitude. God can be reached by different paths.

"Further, some say that God has form and is not formless. Thus they start quarrelling. A Vaishnava quarrels with a Vedantist.

"One can rightly speak of God only after one has seen Him. He who has seen God knows really and truly that God has form and that He is formless as well. He has many other aspects that cannot be described.

"Once some blind men chanced to come near an animal that someone told them was an elephant. They were asked what the elephant was like. The blind men began to feel its body. One of them said the elephant was like a pillar; he had touched only its leg. Another said it was like a winnowing-fan; he had touched only its ear. In this way the others, having touched its tail or belly, gave their different versions of the elephant. Just so, a man who has seen only one aspect of God limits God to that alone. It is his conviction that God cannot be anything else."

sleeping jiva

11-18-2004, 02:41 AM

Hare Krishna!

I just don't understand why you were all this time in this thread. I've never intended to discuss impersonal philosophies. My intent was to bring in the personal philosophy as it was presented by Srila Prabhupada.
Surrendering to the spiritual master might seem like a dogma, but if u don't do it you'll end up like me fooled by maya listening to impersonalists. lol

I warn anybody who reads this thread that it has been spoiled. It has nothing to do with Krishna really. Read Prabhupada's books and chant -that's all you need. Don't listen to impersonalists like Sri RamaKrishna, Maharishi. Listen to Prabhupada -he's bringing the teachings of Bhagavadgita as they are without changes. U can read one here: http://www.asitis.com.

SVgBeauty: Please, leave this place, these guys have nothing to do with Krishna, they just misuse Krishna in order to propagate this nonsense philosophy of impersonalism. I was so blind. I should've left when they committed offenses against Prabhupada the first time.

In response to Chief Cowpie's post, I've chosen a few quotes from Bhagavadgita, the heart of Vedic scriptures. I t was said by Krsna Himself

Chapter 7, Verse 15. (http://www.asitis.com/7/15.html)
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifThose miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me.

Chapter 8, Verse 7. (http://www.asitis.com/8/7.html)
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifTherefore, Arjuna, you should always think of Me in the form of Krsna and at the same time carry out your prescribed duty of fighting. With your activities dedicated to Me and your mind and intelligence fixed on Me, you will attain Me without doubt.

Chapter 15, Verse 19. (http://www.asitis.com/15/19.html)
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifWhoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and He therefore engages himself in full devotional service, O son of Bharata. Chapter 15, Verse 20. (http://www.asitis.com/15/20.html)
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifThis is the most confidential part of the Vedic scriptures, O sinless one, and it is disclosed now by Me. Whoever understands this will become wise, and his endeavors will know perfection.

Chapter 7, Verse 19. (http://www.asitis.com/7/19.html)
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifAfter many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.

Chapter 7, Verse 20. (http://www.asitis.com/7/20.html)
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifThose whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.

I wish you will recieve Krishna's mercy in form of devotional service upon the feet of Srila Prabhupada.

So long.

BlackBillBlake

11-18-2004, 01:30 PM

Chapter 7, Verse 15. (http://www.asitis.com/7/15.html)
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifThose miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me.

Chapter 7, Verse 20. (http://www.asitis.com/7/20.html)
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifThose whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.

.
Dear Sleeping JIva,

I am surprised by your words, since I for one have made no secret of the fact that I revere a number of Gurus and Saints. To imagine that only one sect or one man has the truth about God or Krishna or Jesus is very dangerous and limiting.
And even if you wanted to strictly follow Prabhupada these days, how can it be done? It isn't possible for 99% of people to do so outside a temple, and since ISKCON is wholly corrupt, this would mean going to live in India.
Or do you rise at 3 A.M. daily to do your 16 rounds of Japa, have deities installed at home to offer all your food to, and so on? Don't give some answer about Ritviks, because in effect, there are none. So one would have the choice to accept a phoney 'guru' who has learned to parott Prabhupada's words, or go it alone. And that is simply too much for most people.
There is no doubt that Srila Prabhupada made mistakes - for one thing in His judgement of His selected sucessors, even if they were meant to be only Ritviks - He chose a bunch of criminally minded swindlers, and I know for definite that at least one of them, Bhagavan Gurudev, was someone with no spiritual realization or presence whatsoever. Simply a puffed up egoist.
Also, I hope the words you posted here from the Gita are not meant as a criticism of Sri Ramakrishna. If so, then I am sorry Jiva, but you are grossly deluded. Thakur's mind distorted by material desire? I think not. I doubt you are aware of it, but Thakur was so pure he couldn't touch any coin or metal object. He lived a housholder life for years, and yet abstained from all sexual contact. He was an intimate lover of Krishna.
This whole personalist VS. impersonalist thing is nonsense. God has all these aspects, the Gita says so. To imagine that just because someone puts on a Dhoti and some Tilak, and adheres on a mental level to a set teaching this puts them on a higher plane than one like Thakur is simply self delusion. It is as Vivekeananda says in the piece I posted here earlier - there is a danger in Bhakti of a descent into a very one sided and even fanatical mentality.
It is as though one knew nothing of Christianity and was exposed only to the teaching of Jehova's Witnesses - one might assume one knew all there was to know about Christianity, and accept their critique of say the Catholic Church, without having any knowledge of it other than what one had been told.
As for Chief Cowpie, he has consistently posted here very high quality items on a wide variety of topics, and I hope he will go on doing so.
Wake up to the fact that Sri Krishna is bigger than one sect, or certainly too big for the work of one man to fully cover and encapsulate. He is unlimited, He can do what He wants. Certainly, Krishna is not bound by anybody's book. Otherwise, how can He be God? Maker of billions of galaxies?
If you want Chief Cowpie, GDKumar and myself to quit posting here,because we all like other Gurus, this thread will die. I am not seeking to attack you personally in any way here - but one has to try to see the contradictions involved.
An example - The other day I was looking over a book of Krishna art by Indra Sharma. There is his painting of Prabhupada, and a few pages later, a quote from Bon Maharaja, a devotee Prabhupada expressly forbade his disciples to have anything to do with, and whom He described as 'a poisonous snake'.
So - Sharma has enriched us all with his great paintings - are we to burn his books because they contain a 'forbidden' quote?
If the others who post here were so bad, then why do they bother posting about Krishna at all? Or are they seeking to express their devotion, and even help others to come to some understanding of Krishna?
No one denies Prabhupada's greatness as a Bhakta. But it is a fact that nobody is infallible. Not even the Pope, who has been declared so by Papal Bull.
I hope that you will consider these points.

Hare Krishna!

ChiefCowpie

11-18-2004, 01:59 PM

I have no interest to pursue the argument of "my guru is better than your guru" and simple rest my case in response to your criticisms of Ramakrishna, Vivekanananda and Sister Nivedita that you are wrong and whatever scripture you cite is misapplied. It is painful to my heart to see these pure souls criticized by you.

Sleeping Jiva, for whatever reason, you seem to delight in slandering the name of great souls who have thought for thought dedicated their lives to loving God and all of His creation who happen to be outside of your limited perspective of understanding. At one time in this thread, you went on and on about the evil and vindictive nature of Prabhupada's godbrothers and godsisters. And now you have moved on to blaspheming other traditions and understandings.

Your praise for Prabhupada wins you no favors from Krishna if its at the expense of offending His many devotees.

I would suggest you try to see how people are serving and loving God and each other and not how they are not. The universe and all of life will take on a whole new perspective.

BlackBillBlake

11-18-2004, 02:26 PM

BlackBillBlake

11-18-2004, 04:08 PM

Hare Krishna!

At the risk of calling down a condemnation on His saintly head, I thought I'd post this short extract from the book 'Yogi Sri Krishnaprem' here. I hope it is relevant - I feel that it is.

“As a man gradually purifies his nature so his faith will shine more clearly, free from the misunderstandings of the mind. A sectarian believes in all sorts of silly things. It is not his faith that is at fault ( I am talking of real faith, mind you) but his poorly developed mind which misinterprets the data given by his faith. We must purify our minds till they can grasp the object of our faith without covering it up with all sorts of silly superstitions. But if we abandon faith we shall be lost, for faith is just the evidence for a higher level of knowledge. It is a thread let down from that higher level and if we turn our back on it we shall just wander contentedly about on the level at which we are. That is what most so-called rationalists do. We must use faith as they do: as a thread in saving men from shipwreck: they fire a rocket across carrying a light thread. That having been grasped it is used to pull over a stout cord, a stout hawser which will carry men across.

As for Gurus as “ incarnate Gods” as your friend ridicules it, well, why not? All men are incarnate Gods for one thing – only they know it not; for another, if I can see the God in some one man either because he has seen It in himself or because through him a Light has shone for me, why should anyone else get annoyed? Presumably because he has not seen God anywhere himself, is it not?”

From letter to D.K.Roy, 29th January, 1936.

ChiefCowpie

11-18-2004, 09:27 PM

Thank you Black Bill. I also thought this would help out.

The Pentatheon (paCcatattva in Sanskrit, meaning the fivefold Avatara), is the five Deities of the Hindu pantheon for the current age (known as kali). According to the collection of Sanskrit works known as the PurANnas (ancient chronologies) there are avatAras (incarnations of the Deity in human form) for each of the four ages (satya, tretA, dvApara and kali), which repeat in an endless cosmic cycle that lasts for the duration of the Universe. According to the sixteenth century work zrI caitanya caritAmRtam by Krsnadasa Kaviraja and various other source works in Sanskrit and Bengali, Shri Chaitanya is the avatAra for the current age (which began about 5000 years ago) that was predicted in the PurANnas. He descended upon the earth with His entourage at the end of the fifteen century A.D. The four principle personalities among that entourage, along with Chaitanya, make up the Pentatheon. They are Shri Nityananda, who is an avatAra of Balarama, Shri Advaita, who is an avatAra of Mahavishnu, Shri Gadadhara, who is an avatAra of Radha, and Shri Shrivasa, who is an avatAra of Narada Muni.

http://www.yogapitha.org/Pancatattva.jpg

The Pentatheon from left: Shri Advaitcarya, Shri Nityananda, Shri Chaitanya, Shri Gadadhara, Shri Shrivasa Pandit

Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu never personally made disciples. That was delegated to his inner circle, who were all from caste brahmana families of distinguished houses in Bengal and South India. Today there are dIkSA lines descending from Shri Nityananda, Shri Advaita, Shri Gadadhara and from Shri Gopala Bhatta Goswami, all associates and contemporaries of Shri Chaitanya. The various mantras passed down through these lines are comprised of seeds (bIja) and gayatrIs for the guru, all five of the paCcatattva, Shri Radharani and Shri Govinda, the eight principle sakhIs, and the eight principle maJjarIs. The sakhIs and maJjarIs are cowherd girls (gopIs), the former being direct assistants and the latter being indirect assistants in the divine amorous play between Radharani and Govinda.

The spiritual movement started by Shri Chaitanya is universal in scope, as it is designed for people from all walks of life, irrespective of sex, caste, creed or spiritual order of life. It is as much for those in household life as it is for ascetics and monastics. It is not, as some may think, an anti-intellectual creed, and scholars from the tradition are steeped in all of the ancient classics such as the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Aranyakas, the Brahmanas, the Puranas, the Ramayana and Mahabharata epics, the Tantras, and the Bhagavad Gita, as well as in the ancient philosophical disciplines of Nyaya, Vedanta and Mimamsa. Although it was not the beginning of bhakti (devotional) traditions in India, which were already well underway in the 16th century, it did bring some new slants on already existing doctrines and theology. Rupa Goswami was delegated by Chaitanya to develop the theological framework, and his nephew Jiva was delegated to develop the philosophical underpinnings of the tradition. Together they wrote many books on their respective subject matter.

Although the movement has been propagated by a distinct sect of Hindu brahmanas in India, it is really not a sectarian organization, and it recognizes the validity of all faiths, whether Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Shinto, Navajo, etc. Its core essence is bhakti (devotion to a chosen deity), which is common to the religions of all cultures world wide.

Home Page (http://www.yogapitha.org/Default.htm)

ChiefCowpie

11-18-2004, 09:32 PM

From "Saints of Bengal" by O. B. L. Kapoor

Chapter XXV entitled "Sri Tinkadi Goswami"

Sri Tinkadi Goswami (Sri Kisori-Kisorananda Baba) was born in 1906 in Manoharapur, a village in district Medinipur of West Bengal. His father was Sri Harimohana Gosvami and mother Srimati Suradhuni Devi. The family had a large number of ancestral disciples. The number of Harimohana Gosvami’s own disciples also was not small. The income from donations made by disciples was plentiful. Therefore Tinkadi Gosvami was brought up in luxury. He did not have much interest in studies. So his father stopped his education and began to introduce him to his disciples so that he might adopt gurugiri (the profession of guru) as his profession. He also married him to a girl named Sitalasundari, from whom he had a son. Sri Tinkadi Gosvami lived luxuriously. He wore spotlessly white clothes made of the finest linen and smoked hukka. The long tube of the hukka with a silver mouth-piece was always attached to his mouth. The smoke of the sweet-scented tobacco, specially got from Visnupur, was seen curling round him. He went to the homes of the disciples on palanquin. The hukka and a Brahman cook went with him. The cook followed the palanquin on foot. There was, however, a spark of bhakti in his heart, which often disturbed him and made him think of the futility of worldly life. The spark was smoldering slowly. It developed into flames, when his father died only a year after his marriage. A wave of vairAgya shook his entire frame. He said to himself, “I must no more waste my life in the trivialities of life. I must wake up and work for a higher destiny. I must renounce the world and go to Vrndavana. No doubt, after the death of my father, the responsibility of running the family has fallen upon me. Perhaps I should wait till my son grows up. But who knows, I may not live till then. Death may sweep down upon me any moment and foil all my plans. No, I cannot wait for better times. If, sitting on the shore, I begin to think that I shall bathe, when the waves subside, I shall never be able to bathe, because the waves will never subside. I must jump into the sea right now.” So one day he sneaked out of home without letting anyone know. He went straight to Govardhana and fell at the feet of Siddha Manohara Dasa Baba of Govindakunda. He expressed his resolve to live in Vrndavana and do bhajana under his guidance. Manohara Dasa Baba said, “Gosain! The time has not come for you to live in Vrndavana. You must wait till the time comes. Go back and attend to the affairs of the family.”

ChiefCowpie

11-18-2004, 09:48 PM

“But I have not come to go back,” said Tinkadi Gosvami. “I have no money for going back.”

“You need not bother about that. Your people have already sent a money order for your return passage to one of your relatives in Vrndavana. You go and take the money from him.” Tinkadi Gosvami had to obey. He returned home after seeing the temples and other holy places in Vraja. Soon after he returned home his wife died. He was at that time 28 years old. His relations began to insist that he should marry again. To avoid them he left on a long pilgrimage. He visited all the holy places from Badrinarayana in the North to Kanyakumari in the South. In every temple to which he went, he prayed to the deity to grant him siddha-bhakti and fulfill his desire to live in Vrndavana. After his pilgrimage, instead of returning home, he again went to Manohara Dasa Baba in Govardhana and asked permission to live in Vrndavana. Baba again said, “Gosain! Even now the time has not come for your living in Vrndavana. Go home and marry. You still have much karma to do. When the time comes, Radharani will herself draw you to Vrndavana. You need not worry.” He returned home and married Sarasvati Devi, the daughter of Asutosa Hada of a village near Manoharapur. He had two daughters with her. But this did not make any difference to his vairAgya. It went on increasing. He hardly lived at home. He travelled from village to village preaching harinAma. In every village he arranged akhaNDa (non-stop) harinAma kIrtana either at the house of one of his disciples, or at some other place. But he did not live with his disciples. He built a thatched cottage at some distance from the village. He lived in that cottage and did bhajana from 3 o’clock in the morning till late at night. Only in the evening did he come out of the cottage, when he listened to Srimad Bhagavatam or some other bhakti-zAstra read to him by someone and participated in the kIrtana in which he also danced at times. While dancing he sometimes shouted so loudly in bhAva that it seemed the shout would rend the sky. At this time there was no considerable change in his outward appearance. Instead of fine linen he wore clothes made of coarse cloth and his constant companion was harinAma and the bag of beads for counting harinAma instead of the hukka. Tinkadi Gosvami then moved to Navadvipa. In Navadvipa there lived Phalahari Baba, who had his Azrama on Manipur Ghata. He donated the Azrama to Tinkadi Gosvami and went to Vrndavana to pass the rest of his life there in bhajana. Tinkadi Gosvami began to live with family in that Azrama.

A Gosvami of Telipada in Navadvipa had the Sri Vigrahas Radha-Madhava, Whom he worshipped. After his death one day the Sri Vigrahas said to his wife in a dream, “Give us away to Tinkadi Gosvami.” The lady went and told Tinkadi about the dream. Tears began to flow from the eyes of Tinkadi Gosvami to hear what she said and horripilation appeared all over his body. He said. “Ma! I am not eligible for the service of Sr Radha-Madhava. But since They have expressed the desire to receive my service, I shall certainly bring and serve Them as best I can.” He brought and reinstalled Them in his Azrama and renamed Them Radha-Vallabha. Tinkadi Gosvami was now so much absorbed in bhajana that it was not possible for him to live at home with family. His home began to appear to him like a dark well without water and relations like trees devoid of fruits and full of thorns. He began to pass most of his time under trees on the bank of Ganga. Soon his reputation as a saint spread all around Navadvipa and people began to come to him for darzana. It became impossible for him to do bhajana in loneliness anywhere in Navadvipa. He, therefore, began to do bhajana in Balavana, a forest at some distance from Navadvipa. At that time he again became restless for Vrndavana. It began to appear to him that he had a call from Radharani,which he could not resist. Therefore he rushed to Govardhana and fell at the feet of Manohara Dasa Baba. He said to him with folded hands and tears in his eyes, “Maharaja! Kindly do not turn me away this time. Give me veza (bhek) and shelter under your feet.”

This time Baba gave him permission to live in Vrndavana but said, “Gosain! How can I give you veza. You belong to the family of AcAryas, with whose help and blessings people cross the ocean of Maya. You do not need veza.” Tinkadi Gosvami then tried to take veza from some other saint. But no one gave him veza, because he was an AcArya. Therefore, one day he took veza of a renunciant Babaji by putting on an old kaupina of Baba Manohara Dasa and taking a vow never to return home. He did not need initiation, because he was already initiated by his father. After taking veza Tinkadi Gosvami began to do bhajana with great austerity. He wore the kaupina and uttariya (a sheet of cloth to cover the upper part of body) made of gunny. He did not live long at one place. He sometimes lived in Premasarovara, sometimes in Varshana, Pavana-sorovara, Kamyavana, Adibadri, Resauli, Camelivana, Tapovana, Panighata, Akruraghata. or Durvasakunda. Everyday he got up at 1:00 AM, took bath and sat down for bhajana. Sometimes if he could not get up until 2:00 AM some spiritual power woke him up. Twice he felt as if Mahaprabhu Himself had awakened him.

Once a Vrajavasi lady came to Baba with her eight year old son, named Mathura Dasa and said, “Baba, I deliver this child to you. Kindly accept him. He will render all kinds of service to you.” Baba accepted him. He asked him to go and bathe in Radhakunda. When he had bathed he gave him mantras. The boy did not know the importance of a Guru. He regarded Baba as his Baba (grandfather) and loved and served him accordingly. Baba also loved him, because he was a Vraja-vAsi. His presence reminded him of Krishna and his lIlA. He gave him to eat all the good things which people offered him. He was so free with him that he often told him the most secret things of his heart. Once Tinkadi Gosvami was circumambulating Radhakunda with Mathura Dasa, he proceeded towards the bhajana-kutir of Gopala Bhatta Gosvami, and he said to Mathura Dasa, “Mathura,look, I tell you one thing. In Caitanya Caritamrta what Kaviraja Gosvami has written about Sri Radhakunda is false.” “What has Kaviraja Gosvami written Baba?” asked Mathura Dasa. “He has written: sei kunde jei eka bara kare snAna tAre rAdhA-sama prema kRSNa kare dAna (anyone,who bathes in Radhakunda but once, is blessed by Krsna with prema like that of Radha.) I have bathed in the kunda so many times. But neither has Krsna given me prema nor darzana. I shall now go to Bengal and preach that no one should go to Radhakunda and no one should believe Krishna, Because what Kaviraja has written about them is false.”

“Do not do that Baba, because that will hit us Vrajavasis, who depend on the donations made by the pilgrims.”

“Then why don’t you pray to Radha-Krsna for me? You are a Vrajavasi. They will grant your prayer.”

“Very well Baba. I shall pray.”

At that time the Manipuri ladies were doing Arati of Giriraja at the spot where Radhakunda and Syamakunda meet. As Baba was proceeding in that direction, he stopped suddenly and said, “Oh! How beautiful! Mathura look, Radha-Krishna sitting on an altar, bedecked with jewels! The sakhIs performing arati! Oh! How beautiful the kunda filled with milk and how beautiful it’s jeweled ghATas! Mathura, hold me or I shall fall.” Mathura said, “Oh Baba! They are the Manipuri ladies, doing Arati of Giriraja. Where are Radha-Krishna?” But as soon as he held Baba, he saw the kunda filled with milk, though he did not see Radha-Krishna. Mathura told Baba about this when he came to. Baba said, “You will see . You will see when the time comes. You do not yet have the eyes to see Rasaraja Krismna and Mahabhavavati Radha.” But how is it, one may ask, that Baba got the eyes to see immediately after he had threatened to preach against Krishna? The fact is that this son of Nanda is also too simple. He is scared even when a devotee gives Him a false threat and is compelled to do what he wants.

It is obvious from the above that Tinkadi Gosvami Had attained prema. It was through the eyes of prema that he could have the darzana of Radha-Krsna with the sakhIs. But prema is dynamic. It is never satisfied with itself. The more prema, the more the feeling that one is devoid of prema. Therefore the more the prema, the more the yearning for it. Baba had only had a glimpse of Radha-Krishna. After Their darzana Their separation became unbearable. He wept day and night on account of Their separation. He lost sleep and hunger and life became burdensome to him. One day when he was sitting in meditation with his eyes closed, his inside and outside seemed to have suddenly brightened with the glow of a transcendental light. As he opened his eyes, he saw that Radharani stood before smiling and shedding round her the light of a thousand moons. She said to him, "You have realized the end you had desired. But you have a lot of work to do. You will come to Me and be always with Me when the time comes." She said this and disappeared (Tinkadi Gosvami had himself disclosed this to Sri Priyacarana Dasa Baba of Govardhana). As soon as She disappeared Tinkadi Gosvami became unconscious. On regaining consciousness he felt his heart and soul and every inch of his body was filled with nectar, which was overflowing through his eyes in the form of tears. After this throughout his life he remained in a state of bhava, which was unearthly and unprecedented. Once the father of Mathura Das had gone to Bengal, Mathura was with Baba and his mother was alone at home. At about nine in the morning, when Baba was meditating, he suddenly cried, "Oh! Ma has fallen!" Mathura became anxious about his mother. He gave him a jolt and asked, "What has happened Baba?" Baba was at that time seeing some lIlA in smarana. His smarana stopped. He felt very bad. But he only said, "Oh! Nothing, nothing." In the evening he called Mathura and said, "Why did you jolt me this morning, when I was having lIlZ-darzana?" Mathura said, "How could I know what you were doing? You said that Ma had fallen. I got anxious about her. So I jolted you."

"Never do that again."

"But why did you say that mother had fallen?"

"I did not mean your mother"

"Then whose mother?"

"You do not know. I saw that Nandalala was going with his friends to pasture cows. Yasoda Ma asked Rohini Ma to give Him some hot milk. Rohini Ma went to bring milk. The boys were restive. They asked her to hurry. In haste, while she was bringing the milk, she fell down. The boys cried, "Oh! Ma has fallen." I also said. "Ma has fallen."

For some time another Vrajavasi, named Ayodhya Dasa had also been living with Baba, and serving him. He had wholly dedicated his life to the service of Baba and served him with all his heart and soul. By serving him day and night, sincerely and selflessly, he had so identified himself with him that he could read his mind. He could know without his telling him what kind of service he needed at a particular time and started making preparations for the same even before he said anything. He also brought mAdhukari for him. Suddenly he died of cholera. Baba became anxious about his condition after death. He wished that sincere, selfless and dedicated soul as he was, he found his rightful place in the spiritual world. One night, when he was thus worrying about him, he had a nap. In the nap he heard Radharani saying "Why do you worry about him? He has come to Me even before you." No wonder, because Radha-Krishna are pleased more by the service rendered to Their devotee than by service rendered to Them. Several other devotees came from Bengal after renouncing the world and began to live with Baba and serve him after taking dIkSA from him. He started going with them from village to village to preach harinAma. In every village he arranged bhAgavata-saptAha (A week-long reading of Srimad Bhagavatam) and sankIrtana. His disciples got up at three o'clock in the morning and did bhajana. They also attended the bhAgavata-saptAha and participated in kIrtana, while Baba sat throughout the day under some tree in a lonely place and did japa and smarana. After the bhAgavata-saptAha he arranged a feast with the help of the Vrajavasis. The Vrajavasis brought provisions for the feast from their homes. The Vrajavasis and the people, who came to attend the pATha [reading of scripture] and kIrtana all participated in the feast, while Baba and his disciples ate mAdhukari. The number of Tinkadi Gosvami's householder and renunciant disciples went on increasing. The renunciant disciples wanted to live with him. Therefore he built Azramas for them in Radhakunda, Tapovana, Govardhana and Vrndavana. The Azsrama in Vrndavana was built near Kesighata and was named Murarimohana Kunja after the name of the Deities installed in it. Once, when Tinkadi Gosvami was living in Tapovana, several rich persons came to him for darzana. The dacoits came to know about this. They thought that the rich men had given him lots of money. Therefore they came to him at twelve o'clock in the night. He remained undisturbed. He gave them Asanas to sit upon and asked them to eat something. The dacoits were hungry. They agreed to eat. Tinkadi Gosvami asked a disciple to cook for them. While he was cooking Tinkadi Gosvami was chanting aloud harinAma. His loving behavior and harinAma made the dacoits forget the purpose for which they had come. After they had eaten the food cooked for them, they offered one hundred rupees to Tinkadi Gosvami and said, "Baba! We are not good men. The purpose for which we came was also not good. But your company has brought about an unprecedented change in us. You can now live here and do bhajana under our protection. No harm will ever come to you."

Tinkadi Gosvami saw his Ista in every living being. His heart was full of love and respect for all. He could not think of violence against anyone. Therefore even the violent creatures who came in contact with him became non-violent. Several times, when he did bhajana in some forest, lions and tigers appeared before him, but they went away without doing any harm to him. Once during winter he lived in the forest called Rantankunda with some disciples. One day while he was sitting in meditation and his body was covered with a shawl, a disciple saw that a poisonous snake had entered the shawl and was staying there. Only its tail was out of the shawl. Tinkadi Gosvami was absorbed in lIlA-smarana. He was not at all aware of the snake. The disciple was deeply worried to see this. But he did not raise a cry or do anything else to turn it away. After some time the snake crawled away, without doing any harm to Tinkadi Gosvami.

Once some disciples of Tinkadi Gosvami took him to Nilacala. Mathura Dasa went with him. In Nilacala he always thought of Vrndavana. On seeing Cataka Parvata he felt that he saw Govardhana. On seeing the sea he thought he saw the Yamuna and said to Mathura Dasa,"Look Mathura, how Yamuna is in spate." One day some devotees offered him cheese to eat. But he did not eat. When Mathura asked him to eat, he said, "Mathura, I have no appetite. Only a short while ago I took roti in Radhakunda." Mathura said, "Baba! You are lying. You are here in Nilacala. How could you go to Radhakunda to eat roti?"

"No, you ask your mother. She was circumambulating Radhakunda. I saw her near Lalitakunda. She was wearing a green sari and carrying milk in a small pot. I said, "Ma! I am hungry. Give me roti." She said, "Come to my home after I have done parikrama." I went to her home. She gave me a roti and some vegetables. If you think I am lying, you can write her a letter and inquire." Mathura wrote to his mother. She confirmed all that Tinkadi Gosvami had said. The fact is even if he lived in Nilacala or Navadvipa physically, in his subtle body he lived always in Radhakunda.

Once when Tinkadi Gosvami was living in Vrndavana he again expressed his desire to go to Nilacala. His attendents wrote to his disciple Sushila Bhaumika of Navadvipa and Dilipa Kumara Mitra of Calcutta, asking them to arrange for his visit to Nilacala. After two or three days he dropped the idea of going to Nilacala at the insistence of the devotees of Vrndavana and sent telegrams to the aforementioned disciples asking them not to arrange for his visit to Nilacala. At the same time he started bhAgavata-saptAha in the Radha-Murarimohana Kunja in Vrndavana. Unfortunately the telegrams did not reach Navadvipa and Calcutta in time. Sushila Bhaumika and Dilipa Kumara booked four seats in the plane for going from Delhi to Bhuvanesvara and reached Vrndavana on the third day of the bhAgavata-saptAha. Tinkadi Gosvami did not want to go to Nilacala during the bhAgavata-saptAha, but circumstances compelled him to go. From Bhuvanesvara he went to Nilacala and stayed in Thakura Haridasa Matha. For three months during his stay in the Math, pATha, kIrtana, and bharidaras (feasts) continued to enliven the environment. After three months devotees came from Navadvipa to take him to Navadvipa and he had to go. The devotees brought him to Navadvipa, but as usual he lived in Navadvipa only in body. His soul was in Vrndavana. He was always absorbed in Vrndavana-lIlA that day and night made no difference to him. For him the day was night and night was day. Once, when absorbed in lIlA he kept on sitting till 12 o'clock at night. A devotee said, "Baba! It is now 12 o'clock. Kindly lie down and sleep." He replied, "Do I ever sleep during the day?"

Perhaps it was not possible for Tinkadi Gosvami now to live out of Vrndavana and he wanted to go there never to return. So one day, when his disciple Vrndavana Dasa was going from Navadvipa to Vrndavana, he said to him, "You go. I shall soon follow."

Since Tinkadi Gosvami desired to go to Vrndavana, Murarimohana, the Deity in his Azrama in Vrndavana also became restless for his company. Tinkadi Gosvami received a letter from Kisori Das Baba of Kesighata Thaura, in Vrndavana. He wrote, "Baba! I saw in a dream this morning a black boy saying to me ‘You people sent Gosain away from here in the midst of bhAgavata-saptAha. Now go and bring him here at once.’ I said to the boy, ‘Who are you?’ He replied, ‘I am Murarimohana.’ Therefore, Baba you come here at once."

The letter was read to Baba. On hearing the letter he became silent. His eyes closed. Two days later, on Phalgun Krsna Navami of the year 1984, he suddenly shouted, "Jai Nityananda Rama! Jai Nityananda Rama!” and left the body to go and meet Murarimohana in Vrndavana. At that time Mathura Dasa was in Radhakunda. The next morning at 5:00 AM he saw Tinkadi Goswami in a dream. He said to him, "Mathura! Look, I have come to Radhakunda. Let us go bathe." Mathura told his mother about the dream. She said, "Probably Baba has left the body and come to Vrndavana in his siddha-deha." The next day Mathura dasa received a telegram which confirmed what she had said.

ChiefCowpie

11-19-2004, 01:46 AM

Sri Tinkadi Goswami

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-64-1100816903.jpg

(1906-1984)

Becknudefck

11-19-2004, 02:06 AM

i think hare krishna is really cool. its really interesting and i think i only really heard about it when i got into george harrison.

BlackBillBlake

11-19-2004, 12:19 PM

Hare Krishna!

Thanks Chief Cowpie for the story of Sri Tinkadi Goswami.

Hello to Becknudfck. Glad to hear of your interest in Krishna.

BlackBillBlake

11-20-2004, 01:54 PM

It is the horrible body-idea that breeds all the selfishness in the world, just this one delusion that we are wholly the body we own, and that we must by all possible means try our very best to preserve and please it. If you know that you are positively other than your body, you have then none to fight with or struggle against; you are dead to all ideals of selfishness. So the Bhakta declares that we have to hold ourselves as if we were altogether dead to all the things of the world; and that is indeed self-surrender. Let things come as they may. This is the meaning of “Thy will be done”; not going about fighting and struggling and thinking all the while that God wills all our weaknesses and worldly ambitions.

The peace of the Bhakta’s calm resignation is a peace that passeth all understanding and is of incomparable value.

When the devotee has reached this point he is no more impelled to ask whether God can be demonstrated or not, whether He is omnipotent and omniscient or not. To him He is only the God of Love; He is the highest ideal of love, and that is sufficient for all his purposes; He, as Love, is self-evident; it requires no proof to demonstrate the existence of the Beloved to the lover. The magistrate-Gods of other forms of religion may require a good deal of proof to prove them, but the Bhakta does not and cannot think of such Gods at all. To him, God exists entirely as Love.

The perfected Bhakta no more goes to see God in temples and churches; he knows no place where he will not find Him. He finds Him in the temple as well as out of the temple; he finds Him in the Saint’s saintliness as well as in the wicked man’s wickedness, because he has Him already seated in glory in his own heart, as the one Almighty, inextinguishable Light of Love, which is ever shining and eternally present.

I know one who the world used to call mad, and this was his answer: “ My friends, the whole world is a lunatic asylum; some are mad after worldly love, some after name, some after fame, some after money, some after salvation and going to Heaven. In this big lunatic asylum I am also mad, I am mad after God. You are mad; so am I. I think my madness is after all the best”. The true Bhakta’s love is this burning madness, before which everything else vanishes for him. The whole universe is to him full of love and love alone; that is how it seems to the lover. So when man has this love in him, he becomes eternally blessed, eternally happy; this blessed madness of Divine Love alone can cure for ever the disease of the world that is in us.

Swami Vivekananda.

ChiefCowpie

11-21-2004, 03:32 PM

Women Saints in Gaudiya Vaishnavism (part 2)http://www.vaisnavi.com/gifs/x.gifhttp://www.vaisnavi.com/gifs/x.gif
by Jagadanada Das - http://www.granthamandira.org/ (http://www.granthamandira.org/) III. Women saints in the modern era

The primary source of information for women saints of the modern period is O.B.L. Kapoor's Hindi Braj ke bhakta(46) (http://www.vaisnavi.com/Saints/Women%20Saints%20in%20Gaudiya%20Vaisnavism(2).htm# 46) Altogether, there are only twelve woman saints described in Braj ke bhakta, of which only five can be considered Gaudiyas. Though these women are respected for their saintliness, only one (Sadhu Ma) is a leader in the sense of being an initiating guru. It is no coincidence that she was born into one of the great Gaudiya initiating families, that of Advaita Acharya. Otherwise, they were all also born in well-to-do families. Of the three who were Bengali, all were Brahmins.

All twelve women whose biographies appear in Kapoor's book are renunciates, showing perhaps more the bias of what that author expected a "saint” to be like, and thus are not necessarily representative of true saintliness. Taken as a whole, the women of Braj ke bhakta show, as might be expected, a decided tendency to the vatsalya or parental type of devotion. One outstanding exception to this is, of course, that of Srimati Devi, whose taste leaned to the sakhya or "the friendly mood," as will be described below.

1. Pishima Goswamini

Chandrashashi Mukhopadhyay, later known as Pishima Goswamini, is the only woman mentioned in Haridas Das's Gaudiya Vaishnava Jivani.(47) (http://www.vaisnavi.com/Saints/Women%20Saints%20in%20Gaudiya%20Vaisnavism(2).htm# 47) Her story centers around the Gaur-Nitai deities who are found today in Vrindavan in Banakhandi near Loy Bazaar. These deities at one time helonged to Chaitanya’s childhood companion Murari Gupta, whose name is carved on the base of one of the statues. They were apparently lost at one time and later rediscovered in Siuri in Birbhum district in northwestern Bengal. A wandering Orissan monk, Balaram Das Babaji, while passing through Siuri had a dream in which he was instructed to take over the service of the deities. Not long thereafter, the daughter of a wealthy landowner in Nadia district, Chandrashashi, at the time only twenty years old, came to Siuri for business reasons. She became attracted to the deities and attended services regularly in the temple while there. One night she had a dream in which Gaur-Nitai came to her in the form of young boys and said that they were very hungry and wanted her to feed them khir. Because she had not been initiated, Balaram Das was not prepared to give food prepared by her to the deities, so she took initiation from him so that she could comply with Gaur-Nitai's request

A few days later, when she was about to leave Siuri for home, she had another dream in which Gaur-Nitai begged her not to leave, for otherwise who would give them such good things to eat. Like children, they tugged on her skirts and even tore off a piece of her cloth. Chandrashashi awoke with a start and saw that her cloth was indeed torn. She went to Balaram Das who found the missing bit of cloth in the hands of the deity of Gaur. From that day on, she abandoned any intention of ing home to her village and decided to stay on in the service of Gaur-Nitai.

Not long thereafter, however, speculations about the nature of her relation with the monk Balaram Das started in the town. Balaram Das and Chandrashashi decided, again on the basis of instructions given to them in a dream, to take Gaur-Nitai with them to live in Vrindavan. They placed the deities on a boat and made the 1600 km. trip along the Ganges and Jamuna to Braj. Chandrashashi, known in Braj as Pishima ("aunt") managed to build a new temple in Barathandi for the deities who became known locally as Pishima's Gaur-Nitai.

One of the interesting legends concerning Pishima Goswamini is the following. One day, while preparing a meal for Gaur-Nitai, whom she treated as her own children, her menses started, rendering her ritually impure for service to the deities. This interruption gready distressed her. When she nodded off to sleep, Gaur-Nitai came to her and told her that just as an ordinary mother does not interrupt her service to her own children while menstruating, neither should she. Furthermore, they assured her, she would be liberated from this discomfort from that day on. She bathed and made the food offering to the deities and never again experienced the female cycle.

Pishima Goswamini led a strict life according to the Vaishnava regulations, bathing in the Jumna three times a day, chanting on her rosary daily, etc., but her real focus was on archana deity worship. She was engaged in a quasi-constant conversation with Gaur-Nitai, who also appeared occasionally to other people to demand various types of service, etc. Later, when she was old and no longer personally bathed the deities or rendered other types of service, she still was able to know whether things were going in the desired manner by this personal communication. In a typical account, when on one cold winter morning Pishima's successor, Gopishwar Goswami, bathed Gaur-Nitai with cold water, she divined the blunder when she saw that the deities had running noses. To Gopishwar Goswami's amazement, she ran a handkerchief over their noses to show him the proof that they had caught colds due to his carelessness.

Haridas Das recounts that Gopishwar Goswami personally told him that when Pishima Goswamini first asked him to take over the service of Gaur Nitai, he complained that he felt no pleasure in serving such small deities as he did not have the same type of parental affection as she, but was rather moved by the sentiment of friendship. He said that Pishima then went to the deities, pulled on their chins and they changed size to take on their present form.(48) (http://www.vaisnavi.com/Saints/Women%20Saints%20in%20Gaudiya%20Vaisnavism(2).htm# 48)

2. Ma Yashoda (d. 1944)(49) (http://www.vaisnavi.com/Saints/Women%20Saints%20in%20Gaudiya%20Vaisnavism(2).htm# 49)

Ma Yashoda is known more through her relationship with her disciple, Krishna Prem, than for her own achievements. Sri Krishna Prem, or Ronald Nixon (b.1898), was a British pilot in the First World War who felt that he had been miraculously saved in the course of a mission in Germany. After the war, Nixon undertook a spiritual search that led him to India. A degree holder from Cambridge, he taught English at Lucknow University while staying in the home of the Vice-chancellor, Jnanendranath Chakravarty, a leader of the Theosophist movement. Manika Devi, the wife of the Vice-chancellor, was also a highly educated woman and had maternal feelings for Nixon, calling him Gopal, as many Bengali mothers call their sons. As Nixon recounted to the Bengali singer and bhakta Dilip Ray, Mrs. Chakravarty was heavily involved in her husband's rather busy Western-style social life. As he himself took an increasing interest in Buddhism and Hinduism, studying Sanskrit and Pali, Nixon observed that even within her superficially mundane life, she exuded a spiritual peace. He noticed that she disappeared from the scene during parties and ed rejuvenated. Curious, he followed her on one such occasion and saw her absorbed in a deep meditation. Upon being questioned, she explained to him that she and her husband had developed an interest in Vaishnavism and had been initiated by Balakrishna Goswami of the Radharaman family in Vrindavan. Impressed, Nixon then asked to be initiated by her. Eventually he asked to take sannyas from her, and in order to be able to do so, she herself went to Vrindavan and there took sannyas so that she could give him this initiation too. The name Yasoda Ma was given to her on this occasion, while Krishna Prem was the sannyas name given to Nixon.

Abandoning academic life, the two of them went to Mirtola, near Almora in the Himalayan foothills, where they founded an ashram which they called "Uttara Vrindavan." They installed a Radha-Krishna murtis. She taught local children to read and write and opened a dispensary, while Krishna Prem wrote several books and attracted a number of Englishmen as well as Indians to become his disciples.

In her childhood, while living at Ghazipur, Yasoda Ma had had several formative experiences with holy men. As a girl of twelve or thirteen, she was chosen as a representative of the goddess at a Kumari-puja in which Swami Vivekananda himself offered flowers to her feet On another occasion she had heard that a local yogi, Pawhari Baba was giving a free cloth and kamandalu to all monks who came to his cave. Curious about how he could fit the large amounts of cloth, etc., that would be required to make this gift, she disguised herself as a boy and stood in line as the goods were handed out. When it came her turn, she jumped into the small space of his grotto and saw that it was empty. Through this act, she showed a great deal of daring; her discovery produced in her a lifelong belief in miracles.

Yashoda Ma had a deep emotional attachment to her deities in the parental mood and had a number of extraordinary experiences with her Gopal deity that she recounted to Dilip Ray.

3. Siddheshvari Devi, Sadhu Ma (d. 1944)(50) (http://www.vaisnavi.com/Saints/Women%20Saints%20in%20Gaudiya%20Vaisnavism(2).htm# 50)

The daughter of Govinda Chandra Goswami in Pabna district of Bangla Desh, she was a descendant of Chaitanya's associate Advaita Acharya. Born during the annual Durga Puja festival, her father considered her to be an incarnation of Yogamaya. From her childhood, she showed a devotional propensity and studied the scriptures under her father who also initiated her. She took sannyas after the death of her father (wearing saffron cloth like Prabodhananda Saraswati). Although still a young girl, she wandered throughout India visiting all the major places of pilgrimage, depending on God alone for her protection. She met the famous Shakta Bama Khepa at Tarapith, who told her to spend some time at Belur and then to go to Vrindavan. It is said that Bama Khepa also recognized her as an incarnation of Yogamaya.

When she finally came and settled in Vrindavan, she eventually built a large ashram dedicated to Radha Kunjakishori near the Ranganathji temple gardens. She had hundreds of Punjabi and Bengali disciples, including many who were prominent and wealthy citizens, and eventually built other temples and ashrams in Belur, Govardhan, Bhubaneswar, Chakratirtha (Puri), etc.

In the tradition of the Advaita family, she strictly followed the Hari-bhakti-vilAsa, even instituting regular performances of fire sacrifices in all her temples except in Braj where she supposedly had a vision of Radha who prohibited such rituals as unnecessary. She loved rasa-lila performances, but is said to have fainted once on hearing Mahaprabhu's sannyas being sung. Like many of the other powerful women devotees of Braj, she placed a lot of emphasis on service to the devotees who all called her mother. She had dealings with some of Braj’s stranger characters like Gwariya Baba.

4. Srimati Devi (51) (http://www.vaisnavi.com/Saints/Women%20Saints%20in%20Gaudiya%20Vaisnavism(2).htm# 51)

Interesting in view of the accepted wisdom that women saints in Indian religions are comfortable in their sexual identity in contrast with men who often, and particularly in Radha-Krishna worship, seek a female identification,(52) (http://www.vaisnavi.com/Saints/Women%20Saints%20in%20Gaudiya%20Vaisnavism(2).htm# 52) is the story of Srimati Devi. O.B.L. Kapoor recounts her legend in connection with Krishnananda Swami, a Punjabi disciple of the Nityananda family descendant Pran Gopal Goswami (d. 1955). Though initiated in the Gaudiya tradition by a staunch promoter of the manjari mood of devotion, Krishnananda worshiped Krishna in the friendly mood (sakhya). Though his guru wanted him to take disciples and preach devotion to Krishna, Krishnananda Swami was reluctant to do so because he wished to avoid the association of women. For years he had kept the vow that he would never look upon the face of a woman and this continued to keep this vow until he came in contact with the eleven-year old girl named Srimati Devi.

Srimati Devi lived in the village of Nagla Lakshmanpur within the Braj area. Widowed at the age of eleven, she devoted herself fully to the worship of her Krishna deity. She herself had a tendency to the friendly mood of devotion and had hear of Krishnananda Swami and had become attached to the idea of becoming his disciple. Eventually, at the insistence of some of her relatives, Krishnananda Swami wrote the maha mantra on a piece of paper and some instructions in how to worship Krishna.

Srimati Devi still wished to see her guru and vowed that until she saw him, she would not go outside in the light of day. She would rise at four in the morning and bathe, then sit indoors, chanting the holy names until sunset She kept this up for three years, but still she was not given the opportunity to see her guru. Finally, she stopped all food and drink and had thus been fasting for nine days when Krishnananda had a vision in which Balaram told him that he could break his vow for her sake.

After making this breakthrough and receiving personal contact with her guru, Srimati Devi quickly attained perfection in the friendly mood. She began to dress like a boy; her behavior, her language, etc., all took on the characteristics of a cowherd boyfriend of Krishna and people even began to call her bhaiya ("brother"). She became progressively absorbed in a total consciousness of Krishna's presence.

Her health was poor and she did not live much longer after this. One day, when her guru came to visit her, he took her head in his lap and she said, "Buddy, let's go. Look, Balaram and Krishna are calling their friends to come.” Krishnananda Swami replied, overcome with emotion, "Go ahead, buddy. I’ll be right along." Having received this permission from her guru, she entered the eternal world of Braj.

.”

ChiefCowpie

11-21-2004, 03:33 PM

5. Girija Devi (53)

Girija Devi was the wife of a rich landowner in Jamira in the state of Bihar, and was thus habituated to a life of great luxury. She started to lose her interest in family life, however, when her oldest son died at the age of eighteen, followed shortly thereafter by the death of her second son. In her grief she became indifferent to food and drink. Her husband asked his family guru for advice, and the guru began to read Bhagavata Purana to her with to calm her. The result of these readings was that she began to develop an interest in devotion to Krishna and then a desire to move to Braj. Despite the family tradition that kept strict purdah on its women, her husband eventually gave her permission to go.

In Vrindavan Girija Devi rented a room in the Radharamana Ghera and quickly began to experience visions of the deity, Radharaman. Radharani would appear to her to complain about imperfections in the service that would have been impossible for an outsider to know about. On occasion, Radharaman spoke to her by possessing one of the temple priests and speaking through him.

Girija Devi smoked tobacco from a hookah and maintained other habits from her days in Bihar, as a result of which she was not always looked upon with faith, but eventually such inexplicable events caused the sevayats of Radharaman to revere her. Even so, Nilamani Goswami, her landlord, once decided to evict her in order to rent out the house at a higher rent. On that very day he made this decision, but before he could carry out his plan, on ing to his own home, he found that neither he nor any of his companions was able to open the locked door, even though he had the key. Another neighbor, a woman devotee, suggested to him that he had perhaps offended Girija Devi and that if she gave permission he would be able to open the door. Nilamani went to her and asked her to open the door. Much to her own astonishment, she was able to unlock the padlock and the door opened. They attributed the mysterious event to the workings of Radharaman himself.

After the death of her husband, Girija Devi spent the remainder of her days in Jamira, maintaining her devotional practices while running the family estate through agents.

Conclusions

June McDaniel notes in a recent study of Bengali religion that during her fieldwork it was virtually impossible for her to find a Vaishnava holy woman. (54) This suggests that a certain disdain of women continues to exist in orthodox Vaishnava circles today, despite the achievements of a few exceptional women at various points in Gaudiya Vaishnava history. The fear of sahajiyaism may have something to do with this. The ascetic community endeavors to maintain its purity by following the principles of sexual segregation standardized by Chaitanya as far as possible. Vaishnavas who allow women of any age or marital status to stay in their ashrams at night are called kunja-vasis and have the lowest status. Those who speak to women in daytime are called thora-vasis, while those who refuse to have anything at all to do with women are known as vana-vasis. These latter Vaishnavas are given the highest status in the renunciate community. Kunja-vasis are routinely suspected of sahajiya practice. The problems faced by Pishima Goswamini in the early part of her relationship with Balaram Das are typical of those that face any women who wish to practice a life of asceticism. Outside the realm of the ascetics, in the entirely different world of the goswamis and householder Vaishnavas, the wives of the Prabhusantans have always been strong leaders amongst the women of their communities, occasionally stepping in, like Jahnava, to exercise greater influence.

It should be stated that here, as elsewhere, history is generally written by men about men. How many thousands of women in every religious tradition have led quiet lives of simple sanctity and asceticism, and been passed over by the few historians who have written about these matters only by virtue of their sex? Nevertheless, despite the limited numbers of examples that we have been able to find of women whose accomplishments as gurus, saints and devotees have penetrated into the consciousness of the males around them, their examples should be sufficient to continue to inspire devotee women. Besides these, there is ample basis in the Gaudiya Vaishnava symbols, theology and spiritual ideals to give room for women to assert themselves, if the inner call should come.

NOTES

46. 5 volumes, Mathura: Sri Krishnajanmasthan Seva Samsthan, 1981-2. This book has now been translated and published in English.

47. pp. 163-171. Haridas Das credits Haridas Goswami's Nitai-Gaura-vigraha-lila-kahini for most of the data used in his account. O.B.L. Kapoor (op. cit., Vol. 1, 193-212) has based his story primarily on that of Haridas Das.

48. Gaudiya Vaishnava Jivani, 169.

49. The main source for the information given here is Yogi Sri Knshna Prem, by Dilip Kumar Ray (Bombay: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, 1968). Also, O.B.L. Kapoor, (op. cit., Vol. 2, 124-169.

50. Braj ke bhakta, Vol. 4, 133-140.

51. Braj ke bhakta, Vol. 3, 132-3.

52. Cf. A. K. Ramanujan, "On Women Saints" in (ed.) J.S. Hawley and Donna Marie Wulff, The Divine Consort (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1984 [1982]), 316.

53. Braj ke bhakta, 210-221.

54. The Madness of the Saints (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1989), 192. In a footnote to this comment, she writes, “The general response of Vaishnava practitioners was a look of amazement, followed by, ‘A holy woman (sadhika)? Why would you want to speak to one of them? Look at all the holy men who are here. They are much better to speak with.' None could or would suggest specific women to interview

BlackBillBlake

11-22-2004, 01:46 AM

Hare Krishna!

Great stuff Chief. I've recently read the account of Her experiences given by Yashoda Ma to Dillip Kumar Roy as described in the item. They are, as it says, remarkable, as are Her words. She was a very high level and pure devotee.
I think also that the concluding remarks about history as a creation of men in which women are marginalized is true of most spiritual traditions. Although Christianity has its share of women Saints, they too relegated women to an inferior or at least subordinated role.
Something of a paradox there given that the Gopis are the highest devotees!
But I don't think it matters - its not the bodily identity but the Atman, the Self within that is important in this yoga.

ChiefCowpie

11-22-2004, 01:04 PM

But I don't think it matters - its not the bodily identity but the Atman, the Self within that is important in this yoga.And so if the Atman is the all in all, then if we are sincere in our devotional life, we will not be bigoted in our treatment of women... or women biased in their treatment of men (which has not often been the case).

BlackBillBlake

11-22-2004, 01:34 PM

And so if the Atman is the all in all, then if we are sincere in our devotional life, we will not be bigoted in our treatment of women... or women biased in their treatment of men (which has not often been the case).
Hare Krishna!

I think thats right Chief. We should try to treat all with equality, regardless of gender. Krishna says He is equal to all.

BlackBillBlake

11-25-2004, 01:08 PM

This is a letter from Yashoda Ma to Govinda, a disciple.

Dear Govinda,

I was very happy to receive your letter after an age……

To serve others is to serve Krishna. We get enmeshed in the toils of maya only because we constantly forget that He presides in every single body. That is why we loose sight of Him and live under the yoke of maya to be born again and again and stay engrossed in what we call our world peopled by our dear ones. If we could only learn to see all this as His lila (play) and envision and serve the one Krishna who ensouls all His creatures, then He would not be able to stay away, veiled from us, because then the veil (of illusion) would be abolished for ever and the whole world would be viewed, pervaded by Him. So far as I am concerned it is unthinkable for me to let Him stay away beyond my horizon. Whatever I see or hear or feel in this world of ours lives by His breath – He, my Gopal, is the life of all that is: it is by that one Krishna who plays at hide and seek with us in countless forms and fathomless lilts. It is only because we equate our bodies with the last reality that we grow to dote on our private worlds of illusion, to wit, where our kith and kin figure. That is why we have to go through no end of pain and frustration – because we hug the blindness of moha, make-believe. Your mother is right: we are all one, sparks of the same vast fire.

I send you my deep love and blessing…………………….

Yashoda Ma. 1944.

jerjmanuel

11-27-2004, 04:39 AM

I myself think the paintings and pictures of Krishna and Vishnu are beautiful. I like the chanting myself. I haven't really applied myself to Krishna because of my laziness. I have had visions of him one night he showed me that I was one with the universe as he pulled me up into space. I was dispersed among the stars it was cool.

ChiefCowpie

11-29-2004, 04:18 AM

He who took my maidenhood is verily
he who is today my groom,
and these the same spring evenings
when the impetuous, fragrant breezes
are heavy with scent of newly blossoming jasmine.
And I too am the same person-
yet my heart yearns for the reedbeds
by the banks of the stream
where we were initiated into
the joyful games of love.

SvgGrdnBeauty

11-30-2004, 01:05 AM

SVgBeauty: Please, leave this place, these guys have nothing to do with Krishna, they just misuse Krishna in order to propagate this nonsense philosophy of impersonalism. I was so blind. I should've left when they committed offenses against Prabhupada the first time.

Dearest Pedro,

What is Krishna? Krishna is a name and an image for God...but so are so many... many wise people have often said to me...that their are many rivers, but all ultimately lead to one ocean. And I ask you that if a love of God is strong enough...why can't one see God in all ways...and dip their feet in all of the rivers...is that wrong? I don't think so... I have been on this spiritually journey for almost half a year...and I must say that the conclusion that is on me in this moment is that if we are honest, with open hearts and open minds, than God will help us find him in the correct way that He sees fit for us...perhaps its one...perhaps its more than one...no one knows...sometimes not even us...

To tell me not to comunicate with these men would be foolish...as I have learned things from you so have I learned many things from Kumar, Andrew (BBB), and ChiefCowPie... I wouldn't change any of these things for each of them has helped me to get closer to God, as well as books by Swami Paramahansa Yogananda, personal meditation and prayer, and reexploring the religion of my birth...

Nothing, I think, is black and white except that God exists...how and what form...perhaps it will be revealed to us in time...perhaps based on our karma, perhaps on our desire for it, or perhaps on our love...these things I don't know...I just must say that I don't live my life or my love in black and white terms...and I ask that you perhaps reevaluate...but the choice is totally up to you....

I must go...because my computer is still broken...but I wish you all much light, love, and God's blessings.

Hare Krishna!

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

BlackBillBlake

11-30-2004, 01:34 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear SGB,

Nice to hear from you and see you're still with us. Sorry to hear your computer problems aren't yet fixed.
What you say is right - we just have to be open to God, and if we get teachings from whatever or whomever that are helpful, we should be grateful.
Its a shame Sleeping Jiva feels the way he does. He seems now to have quit posting here. Thats a great shame. I wish he'd be a bit more flexible in attitude.
Anyway - hope you get your machine fixed soon. Your input here is valued and at present sadly missed.

Love,

BBB.

BlackBillBlake

11-30-2004, 02:34 PM

A disciple went to his master and said to him, "Sir, I want religion." The master looked at the young man, and did not speak, but only smiled. The young man came every day, and insisted that he wanted religion. But the old man knew better than the young man. One day, when it was very hot, he asked the young man to go to the river with him and take a plunge. The young man plunged in, and the old man followed him and held the young man down under the water by force. After the young man had struggled for a while, he let him go and asked him what he wanted most while he was under the water. "A breath of air", the disciple answered. "Do you want God in that way? If you do, you will get Him in a moment," said the master. Until you have that thirst, that desire, you cannot get religion, however you may struggle with your intellect, or your books, or your forms. Until that thirst is awakened in you, you are no better than any atheist; only the atheist is sincere, and you are not.

A great sage used to say, "Suppose there is a thief in a room, and somehow he comes to know that there is a vast mass of gold in the next room, and that there is only a thin partition between the two rooms What would be the condition of that thief? He would be sleepless, he would not be able to eat or do anything. His whole mind would be on getting that gold. Do you mean to say that, if all these people really believed that the Mine of Happiness, of Blessedness, of Glory were here, they would act as they do in the world, without trying to get God?" As soon as a man begins to believe there is a God, he becomes mad with longing to get to Him. Others may go their way, but as soon as a man is sure that there is a much higher life than that which he is leading here, as soon as he feels sure that the senses are not all, that this limited, material body is as nothing compared with the immortal, eternal, undying bliss of the Self, he becomes mad until he finds out this bliss for himself. And this madness, this thirst, this mania, is what is called the "awakening" to religion, and when that has come, a man is beginning to be religious. But it takes a long time. All these forms and ceremonies, these prayers and pilgrimages, these books, bells, candles, and priests, are the preparations; they take off the impurities from the soul. And when the soul has become pure, it naturally wants to get to the mine of all purity, God Himself. Just as a piece of iron, which had been covered with the dust of centuries, might be lying near a magnet all the time, and yet not be attracted by it, but as soon as the dust is cleared away, the iron is drawn by the magnet; so, when the human soul, covered with the dust of ages, impurities, wickednesses, and sins, after many births, becomes purified enough by these forms and ceremonies, by doing good to others, loving other beings, its natural spiritual attraction comes, it wakes up and struggles towards God.

Swami Vivekananda.

God

11-30-2004, 04:00 PM

hey nice post man. Someday hopefully soon, I'll become truly mad for God. I certainly have felt the thirsting part, though.

ChiefCowpie

12-01-2004, 03:04 AM

"Until that thirst is awakened in you, you are no better than any atheist; only the atheist is sincere, and you are not."

very nice bbb

ChiefCowpie

12-01-2004, 03:37 AM

From Mystic Poetry: Rupa Goswami's Uddhava-sandesa & Hamsadutta by Jan Brzezinski

"Sri-Chaitanya-mano bhistam

The contributions of Rupa Goswami to the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya are manifold. Narotatama dasa;s famous invocatory prayer to Rupa in his Prema-bhakti-cnadrika tells us that Rupa understood Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's mission and was successful in establishing it on this earth (sri-chaitanya-mano bhistam stapitam yena bhutale). In his Chaitanya-caritamrta, Krsnadasa Kaviraja writes in several places that Rupa Goswami was granted access to Mahaprabhu's innermost emotional state.

The event which confirmed this special status took place when Rupa was residing in Puri, probably in AD 1517. That year, during the Rathayatra festival, Rupa was amongst the many devotees of Mahaprabhu who watched him as he stood before Jagannatha's chariot, gazing in the mood of Radha upon the Lord of the Universe. At that time, Mahaprabhu began to recite a verse from the Kavya-prakasa, which though superficially having nothing to do wtih Krishna, put him into a divine trance and made hime dance ecstatically.

That verse, much discussed in the literature of the poeticians, was as follows:

He who took my maidenhood is verily
he who is today my groom,
and these the same spring evenings
when the impetuous, fragrant breezes
are heavy with scent of newly blossoming jasmine.
And I too am the same person-
yet my heart yearns for the reedbeds
by the banks of the stream
where we were initiated into
the joyful games of love.
Other than Mahaprabhu's secretary, Svarupa Damodhara Goswami, no one was able ot understand the meaning of this verse in the context of the Rathayatra festival. Rupa Goswami, however, had an insight into the Lord's state of mind and later composed a verse which brought this vision out into the open. He wrote it down on a palm leaf and tucked it into the thatched roof of his cottage. When he was off taking his bath in the sea, Mahaprabhu came by and fortuitously discovered the palm leaf. When he read the verse, he was astonished to see Rupa's clear intuition into his innermost feelings. Rupa's Krishna-centered pastiche was as follows:

O companion. This is the same beloved Krishna
meeting me here in Kuruksetra,
and I the same Radha;
both of us feel that same joy of meeting.
Even so my mind hankers for the forest
by the banks of the Yamuna,
where the fifth note of his flute
reverberated sweetly within my heart

When Rupa returned home from bathing, Mahaprabhu gave him an affectionate slap and said, "How did you know what was in my mind?" He then embraced him tightly. The Lord subsequently took the verse and showed it to his secretary, Swarupa Dhamodhara, asking him, as was his wont, to examine it for any possible faults. He asked him the same question he had asked of Rupa. Swarupa answered, "It could only be as the result of your special benediction."

and the rest is Gaudiya Vaisnava history

BlackBillBlake

12-01-2004, 01:23 PM

Hare Krishna!

Thanks to 'God' and Chief Cowpie for kind words. Here is more of the same.

Bhakti is a religion. Religion is not for the many, that is impossible. A sort of knee-drill, standing up and sitting down, may be suited for the many; but religion is for the few. There are in every country only a few hundreds who can be, and will be religious. The others cannot be religious, because they will not be awakened, and they do not want to be. The chief thing is to want God. We want everything except God, because our ordinary wants are supplied by the external world; it is only when our necessities have gone beyond the external world that we want a supply from the internal, from God. So long as our needs are confined within the narrow limits of this physical universe, we cannot have any need for God; it is only when we have become satiated with everything here that we look beyond for a supply. It is only when the need is there that the demand will come. Have done with this child's play of the world as soon as you can, and then you will feel the necessity of something beyond the world, and the first step in religion will come.

There is a form of religion which is fashionable. My friend has much furniture in her parlour; it is the fashion to have a Japanese vase, so she must have one even if it costs a thousand dollars. In the same way she will have a little religion and join a church. Bhakti is not for such. That is not want. Want is that without which we cannot live. We want breath, we want food, we want clothes; without them we cannot live. When a man loves a woman in this world, there are times when he feels that without her he cannot live, although that is a mistake. When a husband dies, the wife thinks she cannot live without him; but she lives all the same. This is the secret of necessity: it is that without which we cannot live; either it must come to us or we die. When the time comes that we feel the same about God, or in other words, we want something beyond this world, something above all material forces, then we may become Bhaktas. What are our little lives when for a moment the cloud passes away, and we get one glimpse from beyond, and for that moment all these lower desires seem like a drop in the ocean? Then the soul grows, and feels the want of God, and must have Him.

The first step is: What do we want? Let us ask ourselves this question every day, do we want God? You may read all the books in the universe, but this love is not to be had by the power of speech, not by the highest intellect, not by the study of various sciences. He who desires God will get Love, unto him God gives Himself. Love is always mutual, reflective. You may hate me, and if I want to love you, you repulse me. But if I persist, in a month or a year you are bound to love me. It is a wellknown psychological phenomenon. As the loving wife thinks of her departed husband, with the same love we must desire the Lord, and then we will find God, and all books and the various sciences would not be able to teach us anything. By reading books we become parrots; no one becomes learned by reading books. If a man reads but one word of love, he indeed becomes learned. So we want first to get that desire.

Let us ask ourselves each day, "Do we want God" When we begin to talk religion, and especially when we take a high position and begin to teach others, we must ask ourselves the same question. I find many times that I don't want God, I want bread more. I may go mad if I don't get a piece of bread; many ladies will go mad if they don't get a diamond pin, but they do not have the same desire for God; they do not know the only Reality that is in the universe. There is a proverb in our language — If I want to be a hunter, I'll hunt the rhinoceros; if I want to be a robber, I'll rob the king's treasury. What is the use of robbing beggars or hunting ants? So if you want to love, love God. Who cares for these things of the world? This world is utterly false; all the great teachers of the world found that out; there is no way out of it but through God. He is the goal of our life; all ideas that the world is the goal of life are pernicious. This world and this body have their own value, a secondary value, as a means to an end; but the world should not be the end. Unfortunately, too often we make the world the end and God the means. We find people going to church and saying, "God, give me such and such; God, heal my disease." They want nice healthy bodies; and because they hear that someone will do this work for them, they go and pray to Him. It is better to be an atheist than to have such an idea of religion. As I have told you, this Bhakti is the highest ideal; I don't know whether we shall reach it or not in millions of years to come, but we must make it our highest ideal, make our senses aim at the highest. If we cannot get to the end, we shall at least come nearer to it. We have slowly to work through the world and the senses to reach God.

Swami Vivekananda.

SvgGrdnBeauty

12-01-2004, 10:56 PM

Dearest BBB,

Wow...that was an amazing post as was your previous... really something to think about...

Here's my story to share...it was sent to me by Kumar a few days ago...its been constantly on my mind for the last couple of days:

Even Debarshi Narada, the greatest devotee of the Lord, was never sure of
Bishnu's Lila and very seldom he understood it. Once Bishnu told Narada, "Let us
go to the earth and take a walk around." Both of them came to the earth and
after whole day's walking around the Lord said, " Narada, let us go to the
Zemindar's house. He is a rich man. We will have some food and rest there." They
went to the zeminder's big house as two ordinary villagers and told the
zeminder(Rich land owner), "Sir, we are very hungry and tired.Please give us
some food and water, God will bless you." That zeminder was very miser and an
unkind man. He told them in a very brusque manner, "Go away from here right now,
don't you feel ashamed to ask for food ? I did not earn money to feed beggars
like you." Narada was furious with rage but Bishnu calmed him down and they
walked away from that place. Narada was very angry and annoyed and said,
"Prabhu, you must do something and punish him." Bishnu said, "Well Narada, I
wish him plenty more money and wealth." Narad was perplexed at this and said
very unhappily, "I will never understand you, my Lord." Bishnu just smiled and
kept quiet. After sometime they reached one very wretched looking small hut of a
very poor old lone man having only one cow as his only property. Before they
could say anything, the old poor man with folded hands greeted them, " Both of
you are looking very tired, you are my guests. I am a very poor man, cannot do
much but please come inside, have some water to drink and then take rest for a
while." After entering his dilapidated hut Bishnu asked him, "We are very
hungry, can you please give us some food." The poor man was in shame but then he
managed to find one earthen glass. He went outside, milked his cow and came back
to them, "I am sorry, I could get only this much milk, please share it. I have
nothing else to offer." Bishnu and Narad shared the milk and came out. Narada
told Bishnu, "Now Prabhu, this man is so nice and kind, please do something for
him. He is so poor." Bishnu said, " Well, let his cow die." Narada screamed at
this, "What is this Prabhu, you gave more money and wealth to the wicked and
rich zeminder but now you killed the cow of this old pious man ! I don't know
what is happening and I don't want to understand." Narada was very annoyed.
Bishnu then told Narada, "Dear, please do not be upset. What can I do ! As
people desire, so they get. The zeminder is not a happy man but he never wanted
me, he always wanted more and more money bringing more and more unhappiness for
himself. So I gave him more money. This poor pious man, on the other hand is a
devotee of mine and in spite of being very poor he always wanted me alone and
nothing else. His cow was his only attachment on this earth, so I gave death to
his cow to fulfil his desire. Today itself he will get me." Then Narada
understood and they went back to their own place.

BlackBillBlake

12-02-2004, 11:25 PM

Thanks for that, a great story. As well as showing the need for non-attachment, it also illustrates that one can't judge by worldly appearances. What seems like a setback or misfortune can sometimes have another significance if its viewed from a spiritual perspective.

Hare Krishna!

ChiefCowpie

12-03-2004, 01:10 PM

yes, nice story... and another narada muni story

Narada Muni asks Sri Krsna if he can see His Maya potency.

"Maharaj explained that, so long as Narada Muni remembered Krsna, there could be no possibility of Krsna showing him His Maya but, to demonstrate His Maya as per Narada's request, Krsna arranged a very complicated scenario. Catching Narada Muni off guard, Krsna bids Narada to bathe in a beautiful lake. Narada submerges himself and when he resurfaces, Krsna has disappeared. Narada, himself, has been transformed into a woman. "She" cannot remember Krsna. She cannot even remember who she, herself, is. The woman finds herself drowning in a sea of rocky waves. "Who will rescue me?! Who will rescue me?!" she cries. A king comes along and saves her. He is immediately captivated by her beauty. Ultimately, Narada as a woman takes shelter of this king and his kingdom. He marries her and they have 50 sons. She is so attached to her husband, her sons and her role as queen that she has no time to go to the temple or perform bhajan. Over time, the sons marry and, due to internal jealousies among the wives of the sons, war breaks out among the sons over land disputes. Eventually, all the sons are killed.

Narada as the queen is devastated. She is suicidal over the loss of her sons. Krsna comes to her in the form of a brahmin. She does not recognize Him, but only sees a brahmin. She cries to Him that the Supreme Lord must be very stupid. "He is a dunderhead!" Maharaj quotes. If He takes away everyone's sons in this fashion, then creation will cease because who will want to have children just to suffer this pain? Krsna as the brahmin requests the queen to perform some ablutions at the lake so that she might gain some peace of mind. After some persuasion, she goes to the lake. As she picks her head up from the waters, "she" is now "he" once again, and Narada sees Krsna standing on the bank of the lake.

The moment Narada sees Krsna, he remembers who Krsna is, who he himself is and also all that had just transpired. With some amount of embarrassment, he relates to the Lord all that he had experienced.

"So," Krsna says, "That is my Maya! As soon as you forget Me, Maya comes. If you remember Me, Maya cannot come. Do you want to see it again?"

"Oh no! No!" Narada replies emphatically. "Please, I do not want to see it again."

BlackBillBlake

12-03-2004, 01:17 PM

Another great story Chief. Narada seems almost omni-present at times, he appears in so many stories.

Here is something else I thought might be of interest.

Chant The Name Of The Lord. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

This is an alternative rendering in English of Sri Chaitanyadev’s verses, by Swami Prabhavananda and Christopher Isherwood. It is taken from the book ‘Vedanta for the Western World’.

Chant the Name of the Lord and His Glory unceasingly
That the mirror of the heart may be wiped clean
And quenched that mighty forest fire,
Worldly lust, raging furiously within.
Oh Name, stream down in moonlight on the lotus-heart,
Opening its cup to knowledge of Thyself.
Oh self, drown deep in the waves of His bliss,
Chanting His Name continually,
Tasting His nectar at every step,
Bathing in His Name, that bath for weary souls.

Various are Thy Names, Oh Lord,
In each and every Name Thy power resides.
No times are set, no rites are needful for chanting of Thy Name,
So vast is Thy mercy.
How huge then, is my wretchedness
Who find, in this empty life and heart
No devotion to Thy Name!

Oh my mind!
Be humbler than a blade of grass,
Be patient and forbearing like the tree,
Take no honour to thyself,
Give honour to all,
Chant unceasingly the Name of the Lord.

Oh Lord and Soul of the universe,
Mine is no prayer for wealth or retinue,
The playthings of lust or the toys of fame;
As many times as I may be reborn
Grant me, Oh Lord a steadfast love for Thee.

A drowning man in this world’s fearful ocean
Is Thy servant, Oh Sweet One.
In Thy mercy
Consider him as dust beneath Thy feet.

Ah, how I long for the day
When, chanting Thy Name, the tears will spill down
From my eyes, and my throat will refuse to utter
Its prayers, choking and stammering with ecstacy,
When all the hairs of the body will stand erect with joy!

Ah, how I long for the day
When an instant’s separation from Thee, Oh Govinda,
Will be as a thousand years,
When my heart burns away with its desire
And the world, without Thee is a heartless void.
Prostrate at Thy feet let me be, in unwavering devotion,
Neither imploring the embraces of Thine arms,
Nor bewailing the withdrawal of Thy presence
Though it tears my soul asunder.

Oh Thou, who stealest the hearts of Thy devotees,
Do with me what Thou wilt –
For Thou art my heart’s beloved, Thou and Thou alone.

Sri Chaitanya (1485 – 1533)

ChiefCowpie

12-04-2004, 01:49 AM

By Jagadananda dasa

The kanistha wants certainty at any price. This is because he really is NOT certain. But he does not really think that if he falls of the edge of a cliff, Krishna will catch him.

Of course, that last comment is figurative: A kanishtha is in fact MORE likely to jump off a cliff thinking that Krishna will catch him. Or blow himself up in a crowded market place to martyr himself for a religious/political cause. That is precisely because he has to PROVE to himself and others that he really believes, and he has to challenge his God to prove His truth to him.

The madhyama adhikari is intellectually driven, in the sense that he is more conscious of the real problems of faith and does not look to paper them over with scotch tape solutions. He therefore cultivates the kinds of association (whether out of ruchi or vichara) that nurture his faith, but he is also more aware of the transcendental objective in real terms. In other words, he is progressively more aware of the universal, mystical nature of bhakti, rather than seeing it in limited, "religious" terms.

The uttama adhikari's vision is completely different. For him there is no more intellectual exercise involved in his faith. Indeed, faith itself is barely a question any longer. Prema is uncertain by nature--kabhu mile, kabhu na mile, daivera ghatana. "Sometimes Krishna and I are together, sometimes we're not. It's out of my hands." But this is floating on top of a constant consciousness of Krishna that flows "like the Ganges to the sea."

Consciousness of Krishna is the mental universe in which he lives, almost like an animal without critical awareness. So suffering, pain, uncertainty, emotional turmoil, these are the waves on his ocean, but he takes no steps to counter them, except to look under the next rock or behind the next tree for Krishna.

--------------------

Shaped through and through by Gaura's love--
that is a Gaudiya Vaishnav.

BlackBillBlake

12-06-2004, 12:40 PM

To the Bhakta these dry details are necessary only to strengthen his will; beyond that they are of no use to him. For he is treading on a path which is fitted very soon to lead him beyond the hazy and turbulent regions of reason, to lead him to the realm of realisation. He, soon, through the mercy of the Lord, reaches a plane where pedantic and powerless reason is left far behind, and the mere intellectual groping through the dark gives place to the daylight of direct perception. He no more reasons and believes, he almost perceives. He no more argues, he senses. And is not this seeing God, and feeling God, and enjoying God higher than everything else? Nay, Bhaktas have not been wanting who have maintained that it is higher than even Moksha — liberation. And is it not also the highest utility? There are people — and a good many of them too — in the world who are convinced that only that is of use and utility which brings to man creature-comforts. Even religion, God, eternity, soul, none of these is of any use to them, as they do not bring them money or physical comfort. To such, all those things which do not go to gratify the senses and appease the appetites are of no utility. In every mind, utility, however, is conditioned by its own peculiar wants. To men, therefore, who never rise higher than eating, drinking, begetting progeny, and dying, the only gain is in sense enjoyments; and they must wait and go through many more births and reincarnations to learn to feel even the faintest necessity for anything higher. But those to whom the eternal interests of the soul are of much higher value than the fleeting interests of this mundane life, to whom the gratification of the senses is but like the thoughtless play of the baby, to them God and the love of God form the highest and the only utility of human existence. Thank God there are some such still living in this world of too much worldliness.

Bhakti-Yoga, as we have said, is divided into the Gauni or the preparatory, and the Parâ or the supreme forms. We shall find, as we go on, how in the preparatory stage we unavoidably stand in need of many concrete helps to enable us to get on; and indeed the mythological and symbological parts of all religions are natural growths which early environ the aspiring soul and help it Godward. It is also a significant fact that spiritual giants have been produced only in those systems of religion where there is an exuberant growth of rich mythology and ritualism. The dry fanatical forms of religion which attempt to eradicate all that is poetical, all that is beautiful and sublime, all that gives a firm grasp to the infant mind tottering in its Godward way — the forms which attempt to break down the very ridge-poles of the spiritual roof, and in their ignorant and superstitious conceptions of truth try to drive away all that is life-giving, all that furnishes the formative material to the spiritual plant growing in the human soul — such forms of religion too soon find that all that is left to them is but an empty shell, a contentless frame of words and sophistry with perhaps a little flavour of a kind of social scavengering or the so-called spirit of reform.

The vast mass of those whose religion is like this, are conscious or unconscious materialists — the end and aim of their lives here and hereafter being enjoyment, which indeed is to them the alpha and the omega of human life, and which is their Ishtâpurta; work like street-cleaning and scavengering, intended for the material comfort of man is, according to them, the be-all and end-all of human existence; and the sooner the followers of this curious mixture of ignorance and fanaticism come out in their true colours and join, as they well deserve to do, the ranks of atheists and materialists, the better will it be for the world. One ounce of the practice of righteousness and of spiritual Self-realisation outweighs tons and tons of frothy talk and nonsensical sentiments. Show us one, but one gigantic spiritual genius growing out of all this dry dust of ignorance and fanaticism; and if you cannot, close your mouths, open the windows of your hearts to the clear light of truth, and sit like children at the feet of those who know what they are talking about — the sages of India. Let us then listen attentively to what they say.

Swami Vivekananda.

BlackBillBlake

12-09-2004, 09:31 PM

If your Ishta Devta is Krishna, then the following mantra is for you:

Krishnaaya Vaasudevaaya Haraye Paramaatmane

Pranatah Klesha naashaaya Govindaaya namo namaha

Which means:

O Krishna! Son of Vaasudeva, You are the Supreme Lord, remover of miseries.

You destroy all evil, O Govinda!

I repeatedly bow to You!

God

12-10-2004, 05:00 AM

BlackBillBlake

12-10-2004, 03:40 PM

really great poem, Billy.
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it.

Hare Krishna!

God

12-11-2004, 04:36 AM

Just re-read the poem. Amazing, the second time. Thanks again.

BlackBillBlake

12-12-2004, 02:35 PM

It is the only thing Chaitanya Mahaprabhu wrote. Somewhwere a few pages back, I posted Srila Prabhupada's version of it. I wanted to post this because I think it brings out other elements, and is generally more poetic.

Once again, thanks for your appreciation.

Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

12-12-2004, 03:02 PM

From ‘Sri Ramakrishna Kathamrita’

M. — Is daya (kindness) also bondage?

Sri Ramakrishna — That is a very distant concept. Kindness results from sattvaguna. Sattvaguna preserves, rajoguna creates and tamoguna destroys. But Brahman is beyond all the three gunas of sattva, rajas and tamas. It is beyond prakriti (nature).

“The gunas cannot really reach where Brahman abides. They are like robbers who cannot go out in the open. They are afraid lest they should be arrested. Sattva, rajas and tamas all the three gunas are robbers. Let me tell you a story;

“Once a man was going through a forest when three robbers came and caught hold of him. They robbed him of all he possessed. One of the robbers said, ‘Why keep this man alive now?’ Saying so, he came forward with a sword to hack him. The second robber then said, ‘No brother, what use killing him? Let us tie his hands and feet and leave him here.’ Then tying his hands and feet the robbers left him there and went away. After a while one of them returned and said, ‘Ah! you are suffering a lot! Let me free you from the knots.’ Untying his bonds he said, ‘Come with me, I will take you to the main road.’ After a long time when they reached the main road, the robber said, ‘Take this road. See that is your house.’ This man then said to the robber, ‘Sir, you have been very good to me. Please come with me to my house.’ The robber said, ‘No, I cannot go there. The police will come to know of it.’

“The world itself is a forest. In this forest sattva, rajas and tamas all the three gunas are robbers. They rob the jiva of his tattva jnana (spiritual knowledge). Tamoguna destroys the jiva, rajoguna binds him to the world. But the sattvaguna saves him from rajas and tamas. By taking refuge in sattvaguna one is saved from lust, anger and such other evils of tamas. Besides, sattvaguna cuts asunder the bonds of the world also. But even the sattvaguna is a robber, it cannot give the tattva jnana (highest knowledge). However, it puts you on the road to the Supreme Abode. Putting you on the road it says, ‘Just see, this is your house.’ Sattvaguna remains at a great distance from the Brahmajnana (knowledge of Brahman, God, the Supreme).”

GanjaPrince

12-12-2004, 08:54 PM

Hare Krishna!

All we are saying is give peace a chance!

Praise be Buddha

All we are saying is give peace a chance!

Praise be Allah

All we are saying is give peace a chance!

Praise be Christ heart and Buddha mind combined into a subatomic energy field of all one perfect pure energy of love and light that feeds and ends all desires into eternal contentment and bliss for all BEINGS, RIGHT NOW!

All we are saying is give peace a chance!

Love love love!

All we are saying is give peace a chance!

Praise be divine mother!

All we are saying is give peace a chance!

Praise be emptiness!

All we are saying is give peace a chance!

PRaise be the lord!

All we are saying is give peace a laugh!

WOw

Now

9

beyond all

What?

who?

Nobody cares

If you don't have a sense of humor it just isn't funny

Love love love

Be free

Why?

Because we ARE!

BE HERE NOW

Why?

Because we are...

Hare Krishna!

Charlie Krishna!

Rama Rama

RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM RAM

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Now!

ChiefCowpie

12-14-2004, 11:40 PM

ditto to Ganja Prince

God

12-15-2004, 10:16 AM

GanjaPrince

12-15-2004, 01:52 PM

God, you are my hero for this moment, wow now!

ChiefCowpie

12-15-2004, 02:05 PM

ChiefCowpie

12-15-2004, 02:06 PM

M.S. Subbulakshmi passes away, aged 88

http://www.thehindu.com/2004/12/12/images/2004121215950101.jpg

CHENNAI, DEC. 11. We regret to announce the passing away of Bharat Ratna M.S. Subbulakshmi, legendary Carnatic musician, in Chennai late on Saturday. She was 88.

The end came at 11.30 p.m. at St. Isabel's Hospital, where she had been receiving treatment for the past 10 days, family sources said. A team of doctors led by Dr. C.V. Krishnaswamy was providing treatment to her.

V. Murali, a relative, said Srimati M.S. Subbulakshmi, who had been suffering from viral infection, developed broncho-pneumonia recently. She was advised rest and was responding positively to treatment. Two days ago, she developed cardiac irregularities.

Born on September 16, 1916, in Madurai to Subramania Iyer and Shanmukhavadivu, Madurai Shanmukhavadivu Subbulakshmi, her brother Saktivel and sister Vadivambal grew up surrounded by classical music. Her grandmother Akkammal played the violin and her mother was a veena artist.

M.S., as she came to be known, was initiated to music young, learning her first lessons from her mother. She appeared on stage when she was just 13. By the time she moved to Chennai in 1936, she was already a popular Carnatic vocalist. It was then that she met T. Sadasivam, a senior executive in Ananda Vikatan, the Tamil weekly. They were married in 1940.

M.S. received a large number of awards during her illustrious career spanning more than 50 years. India's top civilian honour, the Bharat Ratna, was conferred on her in 1998.

In 1968, M.S. became the first woman musician to be honoured with the Sangita Kalanidhi title by the Music Academy, Chennai. After a brief foray in films, she devoted her time to music.

The other honours conferred on M.S. include the Padma Bhushan (1954), Padma Vibhushan (1975), Kaalidas Sanman (1988) and the Ramon Magsaysay award (1974). She gave the inaugural concert at the India Festival, London in 1982, and has also performed in Tokyo, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Manila, Singapore and Malaysia. She introduced Carnatic music to the West at the Edinburgh Festival (1963) and at the United Nations (1966).

She was conferred the degree of Doctor of Letters by many universities, including the Sri Venkateswara University (1971), Delhi University (1973), Benaras Hindu University (1980) and the University of Madras (1987). The Desihothama (doctoral degree) was conferred on her by the Viswa-Bharati University, Shantiniketan. She donated the money made from recordings and concerts to many causes. With her husband to guide her, M.S. raised crores of rupees for charity through her concerts. The first charity concert was for the Kasturba Memorial Fund in 1944.

The institutions that benefited include the Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams, the Ramakrishna Math, the Nanak Foundation, the Subramanya Bharati memorial at Ettayapuram, the Hindu Temple in Flushing, New York, Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, the Kamakshi temple in Kancheepuram, Sankara Nethralaya, the Cancer Institute and Voluntary Health Services and the Music Academy (all in Chennai).

Starting with `Seva Sadan" in the 1930s, M.S. had a brief stint in Tamil films. She also played the male role of Narada in "Savitri" (1941) to raise money for launching Kalki, her husband's nationalist Tamil weekly. Her title role of the Rajasthani saint-poetess Meera in the eponymous film (1945) gave her national prominence. 'This movie was re-made in Hindi in 1947.

Her voice held the world in a spell. She has sung bhajans in 10 languages, each setting high standards in purity of diction and emotional content.

Many leaders and political giants of that period, including Mahatma Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru and Rajaji, praised her abilities as a vocalist. 'M.S. was an ardent devotee of the Kanchi Paramacharya.

It was the Paramacharya who composed the benediction "Maitreem bhajata" which M.S. sang at the conclusion of her concerts at the U.N. and in Carnegie Hall.

The cremation will take place on Sunday.

Source: http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip.../12/12/&prd=th& (http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=2004121215950100.htm&date=2004/12/12/&prd=th&)

BlackBillBlake

12-15-2004, 04:07 PM

try to imagine a world, a spiritual planet, a heaven, or whatever, where there is one god, who manifests himself in the form of two lovers, two souls, simply so that they can look at each other with love. Isn't that a crazy idea? I don't know, it's the idea that popped into my head, after looking at the Krishna calender art that was on the left hand side of the page, one of the ads.
Not such a crazy idea. And also, the idea is that this Divine love-affair is manifested here also - during Krishna's incarnation in Vrindavana Lila, and within the human heart. Radha-Krishna are there.

But also, Radha-Krishna are only one form where a form of God is shown with His consort. There are many others, with a slightly different significance.

In the Bhagavad Gita, the manifest universe is said to be nothing more than the interplay of Purusha (God, Pure Consciousness, Ishwara) and Prakriti (nature, Shakti, God's manifest will and conscious energy).

Jaya Radhe-Govinda!

Lucy_In_The_Sky

12-20-2004, 06:43 PM

I just started reading the Bhagavad Gita and there's so much wisdom in it! Makes me completely high :).

Jedi

12-21-2004, 04:04 AM

M.S. Subbulakshmi passes away, aged 88

http://www.thehindu.com/2004/12/12/images/2004121215950101.jpg

Her voice is so beautiful!, I listen to her Vishnu Sahasranama and Bhaja Govindam everyday! You can never get tired of her voice. She is really blessed. A person like her I think will get moksha.

Bhaskar

12-21-2004, 04:23 AM

The life of M.S. was so beautifully lived. I am proud to say I have seen her live several times. Although she doesnt rate among my list of favourite classical singers, I truly admire her devotion and love and the simple and beautiful way she lived her life.

I love listening to her chanting. If you are from south India, the sound of M.S. Subbulakshmi singing the Venkatesa Suprabhatam is a part of your childhood. Every morning it plays on the radio, as the mothers bathe and do pooja and go about their household activities. What a beautiful way to wake up! She has done more to popularise the sahasranama and suprabhatam and various stotras than anyone can describe. The sound of many of these chants is inseparable from her name and voice.

Although she had worldwide fame and reknown, M.S. lived a simple life, staying in a small 2 bedroom apartment in Mylapore. She did her own cooking and cleaning and lived the same way any middle class south Indian family does. The millions of rupees she earned from her recordings went almost entirely to a variety of charities. She was the very embodiment of generosity and humility. Hers was a model life, right from start to finish.

BlackBillBlake

12-21-2004, 02:00 PM

I just started reading the Bhagavad Gita and there's so much wisdom in it! Makes me completely high :).
Hi Lucy_in_the_Sky - Glad to hear you like the Gita :)

Hare Krishna!

Bhaskar

12-21-2004, 09:42 PM

Welcome to the world of truth, knowledge and love.

ChiefCowpie

12-22-2004, 03:32 AM

Lord McCauley, speech in British Parliament, February 2, 1835) noted below:

"I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self-esteem, their native self-culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation" (Lord McCauley, speech in British Parliament, February 2, 1835).

BlackBillBlake

12-22-2004, 01:53 PM

Hare Krishna!

Today. 22nd December, is Gita Jayanti - the day on which the Bhagavad Gita was spoken to Arjuna by Lord Krishna - at least according to tradition.

Bhaskar

12-22-2004, 04:34 PM

In India it was actually celebrated on the 21st, so I did that too. As it happens it is also birth anniversary of Swami Tapovan Maharaj, the guru of my Gurudev Swami Chinmayananda. Tapovanji was a great soul, who gave up all his possessions to the Ganges, even his slippers and his spectacles! He the walked barefoot all over the Himalayas, writing and teaching. All he wore was a single thin robe of orange. My pranams at his Lotus Feet.

On the holy day of Gita Jayanti we must all chant the bhagavad geeta, if not all 18 chapters, at least the second chapter, which contains the core of the teaching expounded later on.

gdkumar

12-25-2004, 09:35 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear all,

Wish you a very happy and merry Christmas.

Kumar.

gdkumar

12-25-2004, 09:37 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear all,

Wish you all a very happy and prosperous new year.

Kumar.

gdkumar

12-25-2004, 09:42 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear all,

I am back for a while. It is so nice and inspiring to read the added posts after I left some 45 days back. My sincere thanks to CCPie, BBB, SGB, Bhaskar, God, Luci, SJ and all others.

It has become a thread of eternal joy. Please keep up the good job of spreading words of unconditional love.

With love,

Kumar.

gdkumar

12-25-2004, 09:46 PM

gdkumar

12-25-2004, 09:55 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear Luci,

Welcome to the thread.
It is so nice to know that you are reading the Gita and you find it very good and interesting. Please continue the good job that you are doing for yourself and for all others. It is the mirror where you can see yourself and beautify yourself further for acceptance by the Lord.

With love,

Kumar.

BlackBillBlake

12-25-2004, 11:47 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear SleepingJiva,

Brother, if you love Krishna you love all. You cannot forsake anything or anybody. Please do come back. We all love you. I will be back after one month.

With love,

Kumar.Hare Krishna!

Dear GDKumar -

Nice to hear from you on this thread again! And happy too that you could make it on Christmas night http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif Thanks also for your kind words.

Dear Sleeping Jiva-

We DO love you!

Krishna loves you too!

Please come back!

Wishing peace & joy to all at Christmas.

http://img105.exs.cx/img105/5548/giottomadonnaandchild6mb.jpg

gdkumar

12-27-2004, 09:45 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear all,

Here is a short well-known and thought-provoking story, repeated for all of us, particularly for dear SleepingJiva and the beginner like dear Luci. This story holds good not only for the Gita but for all other books like the Bible, the Koran, etc. This story is also specially for dear Nicole(SGB) who loves to hear such stories most.

There was this great King, once upon a time, who suddenly decided to know and understand the Gita. But the King was very lazy to do the job himself so he ordered the most learned pundit in the country to do the job for him, to read one chapter from the Gita everyday and to tell the meaning to the king. The pundit was flabbergasted with the offer and became a very proud man. On the very first day he came in the morning, read out one chapter and told the meaning to the King. After finishing he asked the King, "My excellency, have you understood ?" The King replied, "Pundit, I have not, first you understand." The pundit was shocked, annoyed but had to keep quiet because it was the King telling him that. It had hurt his ego and pride very badly. He was the most learned and respected pundit in the country. He knew the Gita by heart. Second day same thing happened. After finishing when he asked the King he got the same reply, "Pundit, first you understand" The pundit got wild with anger but had to keep quiet. This continued for a few consecutive days and the pundit was listless about what to do about it.

The pundit used to get up early in the morning everyday, after having all wash he used to sit and read the Gita and then leave for the market to buy vegetables for the family. That particular day in the morning he forgot to keep the Gita back in the shelf after reading it and went to the market. After coming back from the market it was an experience of a different kind waiting for him. He saw his 10 year old son sitting with the Gita, reading it with tears rolling down his cheeks. He was surprised because it had never happened with him while reading the book. He asked his son why he was crying. The little boy said, "I don't really know baba, but as I started reading I felt as if I were Arjuna and I could see Sri Krishna telling me all that is written in the book." The pundit realized that there was something missing in him while reading the book for the last so many years because he never had any such feeling like his son, he did not waste any time and sat with the book again reading it...and lo! he was crying this time....uncontrollably. That day after reaching the palace, he greeted the King and started reading the Gita and despite best efforts he was crying only while reading and telling the meaning to the King. He was scared that the King will punish him. When he asked the same question after finishing, "Have you understood ?" THe king got up from his seat, embraced the pundit and replied, "Yes pundit, I did because you did understand today."

So, that was the story. I tried to touch my beloved Thakur, Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa's lotus feet by repeating this story which was told by Him.

With love,

Kumar.

gdkumar

12-27-2004, 10:06 PM

Hare Krishna !

Quote From ChiefCowpie :
I have no interest to pursue the argument of "my guru is better than your guru" and simple rest my case in response to your criticisms of Ramakrishna, Vivekanananda and Sister Nivedita that you are wrong and whatever scripture you cite is misapplied. It is painful to my heart to see these pure souls criticized by you.

Sleeping Jiva, for whatever reason, you seem to delight in slandering the name of great souls who have thought for thought dedicated their lives to loving God and all of His creation who happen to be outside of your limited perspective of understanding. At one time in this thread, you went on and on about the evil and vindictive nature of Prabhupada's godbrothers and godsisters. And now you have moved on to blaspheming other traditions and understandings.

Your praise for Prabhupada wins you no favors from Krishna if its at the expense of offending His many devotees.

I would suggest you try to see how people are serving and loving God and each other and not how they are not. The universe and all of life will take on a whole new perspective.
__________________Unquote.

Dear ChiefCowpie,

I am sorry that you are badly hurt. I can truly feel your feelings as I am one of those countless millions all over the world, who would sit and cry through out the day if anybody, forget talking ill of Him, does not love Him. But I would only earnestly request you to remember one of those rapid reader stories where it says you can forgive your brother endless times.

May I also request you to give all of us the wonderful stories connecting Nag Mahashay and Thakur. I am sure it comes within your unfathomable depth of knowledge.

With love, best wishes and regards,

Kumar(D.K.Ghosh).

gdkumar

12-27-2004, 10:32 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear Sleeping Jiva,

Brother, He has become everything and everybody, why have this narrowness of understanding? I am extremely happy that you read the Gita and are seemingly very conversant with it. But brother, we have always found a different meaning of all the books to our convenience at all times. I always considered myself a frog in the well and always maintained that low profile all along, but now you please don't try to prove that you are in a narrower well. Doubting sister Nivedita, swamiVivekananda and Thakur Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa is doubting Sri Prabhupada and , the worse thing, doubting yourself. PLease don't go by letters of what Sri Prabhupada had said. Being a preacher of Sri Krishna He could not be a foolish man to criticize Thakur or anybody else for that matter because the very first condition that you learn from the Gita is don't criticize anybody, be frre from the senses of malice. To understand Sri Prabhupada you need to elevate yourself to His level which, I am afraid, neither you or most of us can at the moment do. Sri Prabhupada could not really criticize anybody because he is from the lineage of Mahaprabhu Sri Chaitanya, who only gave us the words of love, tolerance and the message of " Sarbang Khallidang Brahmma". So, if you think Sri Prabhupada actually criticized anybody you will simply insult Him and I am sure you are the last person on earth to do it.

Therefore, dear brother, please do justice to yourself doing justice to others and please come back.

With love,

Kumar.

ChiefCowpie

12-27-2004, 10:57 PM

http://www.richardshawbrown.com/mysticarticles/graphics/RadhaCharan.jpg

Avadhuta Radha-charan das Babaji
Man-mandira, Gavarvan, Mayur-kutir, Krishna kunda
And Sankarikar Gali in Varshana Dhama,
U.P., India

The temple of anger, Man-mandira, is located on the top of Varshana hill over-looking beautiful Gavarvan forest, and it commemorates the site where Srimati Radharani became angry (pro. maan) with Krishna when She seemed to feel that He had been with another. Lord Krishna pleaded with Lalita-sakhi to pacify Radharani, but She refused to hear His plea. Their ultimate union resulting from this exchange is the eternal Mayura-lila or peacock dance, which takes place on the hill opposite to Man-mandira.

The sadhu caretaker of Man-mandira, Sri Radha-charan das Babaji, once revealed that Radha feigned anger because Krishna, while praising Radharani, had compared Her beauty to the Moon. But the Moon is known to possess 10 faults, viz., always changing, having spots, etc., so Radharani took offence. Man-lila is unlimited, so there is no end to the reasons for Radharani's feigned anger. But according to Babaji, there is no question of Radha being angry like we know in this material world, it is all done for the ever-increasing pleasure of Her eternal Lord Krishna.

In recent years, Man-mandira as well as the path to it have been greatly improved (including WC) by the local Varshana-vasi's. These Vraja-vasi's are devotees or well wishes of Radha-charan das, who is the caretaker of Man-mandira for the last half a century.

Please consider that Radha-charan is a sadhu coming from outside of Vraja-mandala whom even the Varshana-vasi's support as their greatest living renounced saint. The Varshana-vasi's respect and follow Radha-charan Babaji. And yet he says that nothing can compare to Radharani's eternal associates the Varshana people (Vraja-vasis). They praise his singing and yet he says nothing can compare to them or their singing. He says that his own voice is "hard & dry" compared to the sweetness of the Varshana people's singing.

There is a very real and sacred relationship between the Varshana-vasi's and Sri Radha-charan das, who is considered by the Varshana-vasi's themselves to be the best devotee amongst them all.

For over 50 years Radha-charan has dressed almost only in an old white kaupina and a blanket for winter. He is the personification of Vairagya. He always keeps a shaved head (the Varshana kids used to shave him). Although he is a very learned scholar who can speak perfect Sanskrit, English & Vraja-bhasa, still he practically (except on any Vraja-mandala darshan arranged by him and the Vraja-vasis them selves) never leaves Man-mandira, not even into Varshana.

In the evening he holds rip-roaring Vraja-bhasa sankirtan with the local kids and now even their parents. I don't know very much about his background because it seems so out of place to ask about, with him in an obvious state of total surrender to the eternal service of Srimati Radharani at Man-mandira. Here is what little I know of his life.

His primary scripture is Srimad Bhagavatam. The eternal service of Radha Krishna is his very life and soul. And fantastic kirtana is his favorite means of serving the Divine Couple. But the key is his intense renunciation of material comforts and amazing staying power.

He appeared in central India about 70 years ago as a very well bred Brahmin boy named Ramesh, and he was an exceptional student. He excelled in Sanskrit, Hindi, and English (he speaks all perfectly); but his major in College was classical and devotional music, which he loved most of all.

During his student period (due to unknown sukriti) he became initiated by an empowered Vaishnava saint who advised him against getting caught within the material entanglement during this life. His Guru's teachings made a great impact on him, and the tree of jnana, bhakti & vairagya grew strong within his heart and intellect.

Soon his parents were arranging for his marriage, which they wanted him to accept. His dilemma was two-fold, 1) he couldn't refuse his parents wish that he marry, and 2) from his Gurudeva he knew that he was unable to live a material life; and to marry this girl and then leave her for his spiritual urge would ruin her life and be unfair to her.

So to solve this dilemma he did the traditional Vedic thing, i.e., he renounced the world and became an avadhuta-sadhu; and from a young age for the past 50 years he has resided as the eternal servant of Sriji at Man-mandira in Varshana.

His dispassion, steadfastness and austerity are incomparable to any other persons I have ever known thus far.

When he first left home he went to wander dressed only in kaupina deep in the wild Chitrakut forests. He used dried weeds and grass to create a blanket during winter and lived as an avadhuta, under going incredible hardship to gain the grace of Srimati Radharani and Her Lord. He would eat what he could find on trees including leaves.

And he endured many mortal dangers while deep in the dark Chitrakut forest and every time Lord Krishna would save his life like a miracle. But he began to feel that by residing in this dangerous condition he was causing some inconvenience to Lord Hari Who had to save him repeatedly. So feeling this way he decided to leave Chitrakut.

With his heart set on the feet of Sriji he walked bare foot (he had 0 possessions except a kaupina) and ended his journey at Man-mandira in Varshana. The temple was rubble with a broken circular rasa-mandala in the center of a pebble strewn old courtyard. The place was deserted except for the cobras and many scorpions. During his life at Man-mandira Radha-charan das has been stung by scorpions many times. After his long walk and with almost no nutrition he collapsed onto the rasa mandala and became delirious with a malaria type of fever. He lost time of material life and just took shelter (mentally) of Sriji, ready to leave his temporary mortal coil.

Then, at some point unknown to him, he was awakened by a kind young Varshana boy who asked about his health. The Babaji was too weak to reply, but the boy poured some water into his mouth and said he would get better. Almost immediately he recovered his health and went asking in the village below about the identity of this boy. None of the Vraja-vasis knew of any such boy other than Lord Krishna Himself.

http://www.richardshawbrown.com/mysticarticles/graphics/Krsna-smaran.jpg
So taking this as a blessing he resolved to remain for life at the Feet of Radha & Krishna at Man-mandira in Varshana-Dhama.

His early years there were amazingly austere, with Radha-charan again making a crude blanket with dried weeds during winter. By Radharani's arrangement he was given madhu-kari by the local Vraja-vasi's through their kids. And he would share his stale bread with any other sadhu who would come (I saw this many times). Even when I first knew him around 1969 his life could still be classified as cave-man austerity with an avadhuta personality. Pure Radha-sakhi-bhakti-rasa, with NO material desire, not even for any recognition.

When I saw him again in 1994 he had lightened-up a bit at the insistence of the Varshana people. I could see that now he slept on a piece of wood and even used a real blanket. He told me with a sigh that he had fallen a victim to luxury. What could I say?

Please consider the paradox: In Varshana there are always many locals very aggressively hounding visiting devotees, often to the point that the devotees get angry and commit dhama-aparadha. But Radha-charan, who is an outsider, is fed, clothed and supported by these same 'seemingly' pesky beggars because he is the REAL sadhu, who has no possessions other than the love of the Varshana vasis.

This is something almost unthinkable to Western oriented Vaishnavas who are weaned entirely on the material concept, even in their spiritual approach. Some "sahib" style devotees even think that material results, like so-called laxmi-points, or any other material consideration are proof of bhakti, when in truth bhakti has nothing to do with any intended or expected material result.

It is an offense to judge another devotee's level of loving Lord Krishna, especially based on material results. Material results are what the gross materialists base everything on. So to say that because such-n-such devotee did more materially therefore he is better than another devotee (based on material results) is a completely mundane concept.

PART II:

During the years I often resided at Man-mandira the temple, which is located on a hill above Gavarvana, was very rundown. A crumbling stone wall around a small courtyard, which contained the large rasa-mandala in front of the small shrine room.

During my early stays they had a very small and rotted picture of "Man-lila" as the Deity; but later I discovered a much larger, very charming picture of Man-lila, which I had framed and carried to Man-mandira. Immediately Sri Radha-charanji established this new "Chitra-vigraha" as the new temple Deities. I felt that Srimati Radharani had so kindly accepted my little personal service to Vraja-dham. And that same Chitra-vigraha is still presiding there even today.

On both sides of the small shrine are stone/mud rooms. One room leads to an ancient stairway, which descends into the snake-infested bhajan cave-room. This room has many stories to tell, but its main attraction is a flat stone slab where Radha & Krishna sat during the Man-lila exchange. To the pure devotees this stone (which is crammed into a crack in the cave wall) glows blue on one side and golden on the other. When going down into this cave room the Vraja-vasi kids (who always stay close to Radha-charanji) will go first with lamp and bang sticks on the stairs to scare away any deadly poisonous snakes. It's very nerve-wracking to perform bhajan in this dark cave because of the snakes and scorpions.

I can still remember some of the wonderful stories that Radha-charan Babaji narrated to me over the last 30 years, and I will repeat some of them here because they were spoken by Radha-charan das Babaji himself.

Many saints have performed their bhajan at man-mandira in the before mentioned cave room, and among them was a king from Rajasthan, the Vraja-vasi story goes, who had been very miserly and sinful in his lifetime. When the king reached old age he heard that his son planned to kill him and take over the kingdom.

Despondent upon hearing this news, the king realized how much his life had been wasted in sinful pursuits and how he should therefore surrender to Radha and Krishna. Renouncing everything and sneaking away from his palace, the king traveled alone and eventually came to this temple of Man-mandira, where he surrendered to Their Lordships. Thereafter he was heard to be chanting the holy names of the Lord constantly.

After many years of practice in this sadhana, the king had become highly enlightened. One day he dropped his japa-mala and picked up a poisonous snake by mistake. The snake bit him on the finger, and seeing his life ebbing, the king emerged from the cave and went to the rasa-mandala, or the circular platform in the center of the courtyard built for Radha and Krishna. Standing on this platform he prayed to Srimati Radharani, "O Radhe, please take me! Please take me! Please take me!" With his arms outstretched, he saw that the virulent poison from the snakebite was leaving his body in drops from his finger. Astonished, but aware that this was Radharani's special mercy upon him, he entered his cave in great ecstasy and continued anew with his worship.

Although the poison had vanished, however, the wound itself had become infected, and in time it turned into a wormy, gangrenous sore inside and out. This made it practically impossible for him to chant the holy names of the Lord with his japa. beads and thus he counted his rounds in his mind. While still in this condition, a beautiful young gopi girl whose effulgence lit up the whole cave approached him and asked what was wrong with his arm. He told her what had happened, and thus she advised him to visit the village doctors. He was convinced, however, that Srimati Radharani was the only person who could save him, for if She could make the poison leave his body then She could also cure this infection very easily. The little girl nodded agreement at this nice display of faith in Radharani, and when the girl left he could understand that She was Srimati Radharani Herself. Inspecting his arm he saw that it was miraculously cured, but in feeling distraught that he had not immediately recognized Radharani when She personally came before him, he simple left his body then and there and returned home, back to eternal Varshana in divya Goloka-dham.

From the gateway at Man-mandira are stone stairs descending through and into the sacred forest of Gavarvan with Krishna Kunda in the very center.

ChiefCowpie

12-27-2004, 10:58 PM

Gavarvan

http://www.richardshawbrown.com/mysticarticles/graphics/gavarvan.jpg

Gavarvan is the area between Man-mandira and Mayur-kutir with Krishna kunda in the center. Krishna kunda is a small bathing ghata where a lot of the Vraja-vasis bathe every morning along with any sadhus. Gavarvan is a beautiful garden that was built, local tradition says, by Srimati Radharani Herself for Her meetings with Krishna. The local inhabitants sing this lovely bhajan:

"O Radhe! This wonderful garden of Gavarvan was built personally by You with Your own beautiful hands, and You are always walking amidst this garden thinking of Krishna. The footprints and dust of Your lotus feet are everywhere, and we only pray that we may be able to sweep this Gavarvan, not with ordinary brooms but with our eyelashes, that we may see all the more closely the dust of Your lotus feet."

Srila Kaviraj Goswami has beautifully described Radharani, perhaps at Gavarvan, in the following verse (nitya-lila period 3) from "Sri Radha-Krsnayoh asta-kaliya-lila smarana-mangala stotram:"

tritiya-yama-kirttanam : Chanting during the third period: (8:10 a.m. to 10:34 a.m.)

purvahne dhenuamatrairvipina manusrtam gosthalokanuyatam
krsnam radhapti lolam tadabhisrtikrte prapta-tankunda-tiram/
radham calokya krsnam krtagrhagamanamaryaya 'rkarcanayai
distam krsnapravrtyai prahitanijasakhivartmanetram smarami

purvahne --in the forenoon
dhenuamatraih --by cows and friends
vipinam --towards the forest
anusrtam --followed
gostha-loka-'anuyatam --followed by cowherd people (i.e., Nanda and others)
krsnam --Krsna; radhaptelolam --anxious to find Radha
tadabhisrtikrte --for the purpose of secretly approaching Her
prapta-tankunda-tiram --who had gone to her pond (Radha-kunda)
arkarcanayai --to worship the sun god
distam --ordered
krsnapravrtyai --to get news of Krsna's whereabouts
prahitanija-sakhivartmanetram --who was casting her eyes toward the path by
which Her friends would return
smarami --I remember.
"I remember Sri Krsna in the forenoon. He was going toward the forest, followed by cows and cowherd friends. Others like Nanda Maharaja also followed Him. Because He was anxious to be with Radharani, Krsna went to search Her out on the banks of Sri Radha-kunda.

I also remember Sri Radha, who, having caught a glimpse of Krsna, went home, where She was ordered by Her mother-in-law (Jatila) to worship the Sun god. Radharani had sent Her girlfriends to discover Krsna's whereabouts, and thus She was casting her eyes down the pathway by which they were likely to return."

On one visit to Gavarvan around 1971 I was warned by the Vraja-vasi kids (and Radha-charan dasji) about a big "killer monkey" who had gone berserk and was viciously attacking people every day. One of the sadhus at Man-mandira named Sakhi charan das Babaji had been attacked and it looked more like the bite of a lion than a monkey. Some Vraja-vasis came to ask Radha-charan's permission to poison this dangerous beast, but he could not give his blessings.

My close call with this Vraja monkey was also around the same time. I had finished my bath and gayatri at Krishna Kunda and was ready to walk back up the stairs to Man-mandira. The Vraja-vasi kids (who seemed to really love this fallen soul) gave me a long spear (a stick with one end sharpened) to carry with me for protection. When I was about half way up I heard all the monkeys screaming and shaking the trees, and when I stopped to look around I saw the killer monkey bounding towards me at full speed. I just had time to raise my spear, which stopped the monkey in his tracks about 10 feet from me. He was twice as big as any monkey I ever seen anywhere in Vraja and he glared at me very menacingly.

It had become a stand off, so slowly I started walking backwards up the stairs, and the monkey, with bared fangs, stayed right on me. Suddenly I heard all the Vraja-vasi boys shouting in Vraja-bhasa, "we are coming, we are coming" as they started running up the stairs. The killer monkey looked at the boys and glared back at me, then he took off like a bolt of lightning. So I continued on up the stairs (shaking like a leaf). On my next visit to Gavarvan I heard that the Vraja-vasis had gone ahead and finally poisoned the killer monkey of Varshana. I must say it was a great relief not to worry about being viciously attacked.

Mayur-kutir

Opposite Man-mandira on the other hillside of Gavarvan stands Mayur-kutir, a small temple housing a famous painting of Radha & Krishna's peacock dance, or Mayur-nitya-lila. After the pastime of being angry with Krishna, described above, Radharani retired to this place with Her friends, meditating on how to obtain Krishna's forgiveness and to dance with Him like a peacock and a peahen. Happy to satisfy Her desires, Krishna flew to Her (or She flew to Him) in the form of a beautiful transcendental peacock, and it was at this site that They performed Their enchanting Mayur-lila.

This temple houses a painting done by a self-realized saint who was specifically empowered to do so. He had been meditating very intensely on this peacock pastime, and one day in old age Radharani gave him a glimpse of this sacred lila. He was overwhelmed with ecstasy, but the divine vision was suddenly taken away and he was plunged into despair. He prayed fervently, and one night Radharani appeared to him in a dream and told him, "I have shown you this wonderful pastime, but I shall not display it to you again unless you paint it." The sadhu said that he knew nothing about the art of painting, but Radharani assured him that She would give him all the artistic ability that he needed. So in the morning he prepared some paints from various minerals and oils and herbs, and fashioned a brush from a squirrel's tail. Seeing that he was faithful to Her request, Radharani displayed once more the transcendental pastime of the peacock dance, Mayura-lila. Once more elevated to divine ecstasy, the sadhu began to paint this wonderful pastime. This eyewitness account of a loving pastime enjoyed by Radha and Krishna can be seen to this day.

Sankarikar Gali

Descending to Krishna kunda in Gavarvan, and walking counter-clock-wise around Varshana hill, one will reach the narrow path passing through Sankarikar-gali, a narrow valley, and one side of which is composed of dark stone and the other side of golden stone. This valley is so narrow that people must pass single-file.

This is the very spot where Radharani and Her Sakhis pass on their way to Varshana for the purpose of selling their milk products in the marketplace. As they file through this valley they meet Sri Krishna, who tells them that this valley and whole area of Vraja belongs to Him and that they must pay an appropriate toll if they wish to continue their errand. Srimati Radharani refuses to pay the toll and Lalita argues Radharani's case before Krishna, while Madhumangala argues on Krishna's behalf. Lalita argues that Varshana is in Radharani's jurisdiction, but Madhumangala says that Krishna owns everything. The result is that Krishna often breaks the pots of yogurt and both He and the cowherd boys steal the butter. Close by is a stone where Krishna placed His conch shell and wiped off the butter that had become smeared all over His hands.

A complete bath in Sri Krishna Kunda is highly recommended but VERY difficult and dangerous for Western (sahib) oriented devotees.

On a two-week stay at Man-mandira around 1970 I requested Radha charan Babaji to please translate the Narasimha lila from His Sanskrit copy of Srimad Bhagavat, 7th Canto. So every day we would sit together on the old rasa mandala and I would hear while Babaji read all the Sanskrit verses and explained them to me in perfect English. That was the best translation I have ever heard; emanating from the mouth of a steadfast avadhuta devotee like Radha-charan das.

I hope any soul has gained an appreciation of a great living unsung saint, Radha-Krishna devotee and avadhuta sadhu, Sri Radha-charan das Babaji, caretaker of Man-mandira, in Varshana, Vraja-mandala, India, for over the last half-century.

Y/s,
Hrsikesananda das