hare krishna [Archive] - Page 4

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-23-2004, 06:42 PM

Remember reading that Krishna came in the form of Buddha...I think this defenetely proves this:

The First Noble Truth:
Life is suffering i.e., life includes pain, getting old, disease, and ultimately death. We also endure psychological suffering like loneliness frustration, fear, embarrassment, disappointment and anger. This is an irrefutable fact that cannot be denied. It is realistic rather than pessimistic because pessimism is expecting things to be bad. lnstead, Buddhism explains how suffering can be avoided and how we can be truly happy.
The Second Noble Truth:>
Suffering is caused by craving and aversion. We will suffer if we expect other people to conform to our expectation, if we want others to like us, if we do not get something we want,etc. In other words, getting what you want does not guarantee happiness. Rather than constantly struggling to get what you want, try to modify your wanting. Wanting deprives us of contentment and happiness. A lifetime of wanting and craving and especially the craving to continue to exist, creates a powerful energy which causes the individual to be born. So craving leads to physical suffering because it causes us to be reborn.
The Third Noble Truth:
Suffering can be overcome and happiness can be attained; true happiness and contentment are possible. lf we give up useless craving and learn to live each day at a time (not dwelling in the past or the imagined future) then we can become happy and free. We then have more time and energy to help others. This is Nirvana.
The Fourth Noble Truth: The 8 Fold Path:
The Noble 8-fold Path is being moral (through what we say, do and our livelihood), focussing the mind on being fully aware of our thoughts and actions, and developing wisdom by understanding the Four Noble Truths and by developing compassion for others.

The Five Precepts:
The moral code within Buddhism is the precepts, of which the main five are: not to take the life of anything living, not to take anything not freely given, to abstain from sexual misconduct and sensual overindulgence, to refrain from untrue speech, and to avoid intoxication, that is, losing mindfulness.

Karma:
Karma is the law that every cause has an effect, i.e., our actions have results. This simple law explains a number of things: inequality in the world, why some are born handicapped and some gifted, why some live only a short life. Karma underlines the importance of all individuals being responsible for their past and present actions. How can we test the karmic effect of our actions? The answer is summed up by looking at (1) the intention behind the action, (2) effects of the action on oneself, and (3) the effects on others.

Buddhism teaches that wisdom should be developed with compassion. At one extreme, you could be a goodhearted fool and at the other extreme, you could attain knowledge without any emotion. Buddhism uses the middle path to develop both. The highest wisdom is seeing that in reality, all phenomena are incomplete, impermanent and do no constitute a fixed entity. True wisdom is not simply believing what we are told but instead experiencing and understanding truth and reality. Wisdom requires an open, objective, unbigoted mind. The Buddhist path requires courage, patience, flexibility and intelligence. Compassion includes qualities of sharing, readiness to give comfort, sympathy, concern, caring. In Buddhism, we can really understand others, when we can really understand ourselves, through wisdom.

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:) Sounds strangely familliar, eh? lol...

ChiefCowpie

08-23-2004, 08:58 PM

http://www.salagram.net/Advaita_Acarya.jpg
SRI ADVAITA ACARYA

guru with long hairs...here he is offering Tulasi leaves to his Salagrama Sila praying for the advent Mahaprabhu

BlackBillBlake

08-23-2004, 09:08 PM

Buddhism is ok, but it differs from Krishna Consciouss philosophy in several ways. The main difference is that ultimately the Buddhists don't believe in a personal god,( or indeed any God ) the absolute for them, the Dharma Kaya,is impersonal. It corresponds very closely to Shankara's concept of Brahman. The absolute without qualities, or Nirguna Brahman, whilst Krishna is said to be Saguna Brahman.

It's true that there are many personal forms of the Buddha, but these are held to be on a lower level - Sambhogya Kaya, Nirmana Kaya, the Buddhas on a higher spiritual plane,similar to the Vedic Devas, and incarnate here respectively, as in the case of Gautama, the historical Buddha.
The goal of Buddhism is also concieved differently - for the Buddhist, the goal is Nirvana, a merging of individual being into the impersonal absolute, this is concieved of as the end of the individual being.
The Bhagavad Gita says that the soul,Atman,is eternally a spiritual individual. Its not that with liberation we will cease to be individual - the false ego-consciousness will be gone, but still, we remain as individuals in a relation to our source, God.
Please understand that I am not knocking Buddhism - I am only pointing out what are the differences, according to my understanding.

Hari Om.

ChiefCowpie

08-23-2004, 09:19 PM

ditto to BBB, Buddhist thought can be said to be one of not saying there is or isn't a God but an exploration of reality where one finds the truth when one arrives there... in K. C. we are given many premeditated realities such as Krishna being God without having the actual experience of that or the Heirarchal make up of the universe with Pitamaha Brahma at the head...much knowledge may thus cloud one's perception of the truth...in this regards, Mahaprabhu himself would proclaim "all i know of Krishna is that He's the son of Maharaja Nanda"... our learning from this is to chant the Holy Names in a loving and humble state without the encumbrances of knowledge and so we can see even in K. C., the values of the Buddhist perspective of having an innocent and passionate quest for truth and understanding via the path of compassion

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-23-2004, 09:32 PM

BlackBillBlake

08-23-2004, 10:09 PM

I don't think that Krishna says specifically that He was Buddha. But Krishna is the original form - the Supreme Godhead, from whom all other Divine Incarnations are expanded.

This is what Krishna says in ch. IV of the Gita

TEXT 6

ajo 'pi sann avyayatma

bhutanam isvaro 'pi san

prakrtim svam adhisthaya

sambhavamy atma-mayaya

SYNONYMS

ajah--unborn; api--although; san--being so; avyaya--without deterioration; atma--body; bhutanam--all those who are born; isvarah--the Supreme Lord; api--although; san--being so; prakrtim--transcendental form; svam--of Myself; adhisthaya--being so situated; sambhavami--I do incarnate; atma-mayaya--by My internal energy.

TRANSLATION

Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.

TEXT 7

yada yada hi dharmasya

glanir bhavati bharata

abhyutthanam adharmasya

tadatmanam srjamy aham

SYNONYMS

yada--whenever; yada--wherever; hi--certainly; dharmasya--of religion; glanih--discrepancies; bhavati--manifested, becomes; bharata--O descendant of Bharata; abhyutthanam--predominance; adharmasya--of irreligion; tada--at that time; atmanam--self; srjami--manifest; aham--I.

TRANSLATION

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself.

TEXT 8

paritranaya sadhunam

vinasaya ca duskrtam

dharma-samsthapanarthaya

sambhavami yuge yuge

SYNONYMS

paritranaya--for the deliverance; sadhunam--of the devotees; vinasaya--for the annihilation; ca--also; duskrtam--of the miscreants; dharma--principles of religion; samsthapana-arthaya--to reestablish; sambhavami--I do appear; yuge--millennium; yuge--after millennium.

TRANSLATION

In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium.

ChiefCowpie

08-23-2004, 10:13 PM

Having made their plot, the Buddhists brought a plate of untouchable food before Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and called it maha-prasada. When the contaminated food was offered to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, a very large bird appeared on the spot, picked up the plate in its beak and flew away. Indeed, the untouchable food fell upon the Buddhists, and the large bird dropped the plate on the head of the chief Buddhist Stoka Krishna dasa (http://www.krishna.org/?author=Stoka Krishna dasa) (11-28-03)

Here is an interesting pastime of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taken from the Chaitanya Charitamrita.

There are many kinds of philosophers. Some are logicians who follow Gautama or Kanada. Some follow the Mimamsa philosophy of Jaimini. Some follow the Mayavada philosophy of Shankaracarya, and others follow Kapila's Sankhya philosophy or the mystic yoga system of Patanjali. Some follow the smriti-shastra composed of twenty religious scriptures, and others follow the Puranas and the tantra-shastra. In this way there are many different types of philosophers. All of these adherents of various scriptures were ready to present the conclusions of their respective scriptures, but Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu broke all their opinions to pieces and established His own cult of bhakti based on the Vedas, Vedanta, the Brahma-sutra and the philosophy of acintya-bhedabheda-tattva. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu established the devotional cult everywhere. No one could defeat Him.

Being thus defeated by Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, all these philosophers and their followers entered into His cult. In this way Lord Chaitanya made South India into a country of Vaisnavas. When the nonbelievers heard of the erudition of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, they came to Him with great pride, bringing their disciples with them. One of them was a leader of the Buddhist cult and was a very learned scholar. To establish the nine philosophical conclusions of Buddhism, he came before the Lord and began to speak. Although the Buddhists are unfit for discussion and should not be seen by Vaisnavas, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu spoke to them just to decrease their false pride. The scriptures of the Buddhist cult are chiefly based on argument and logic, and they contain nine chief principles. Because Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu defeated them in their argument, they could not establish their cult. The teacher of the Buddhist cult set forth the nine principles, but Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu broke them to pieces with His strong logic.

All mental speculators and learned scholars were defeated by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and when the people began to laugh, the Buddhist philosophers felt both shame and fear. The Buddhists could understand that Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was a Vaisnava, and they returned home very unhappy. Later, however, they began to plot against the Lord.

Having made their plot, the Buddhists brought a plate of untouchable food before Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and called it maha-prasada. When the contaminated food was offered to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, a very large bird appeared on the spot, picked up the plate in its beak and flew away. Indeed, the untouchable food fell upon the Buddhists, and the large bird dropped the plate on the head of the chief Buddhist teacher. When it fell on his head, it made a big sound. The plate was made of metal, and when its edge hit the head of the teacher, it cut him, and the teacher immediately fell to the ground unconscious.

When the teacher fell unconscious, his Buddhist disciples cried aloud and ran to the lotus feet of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu for shelter. They all prayed to Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, addressing Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself and saying, "Sir, please excuse our offense. Please have mercy upon us and bring our spiritual master back to life." The Lord then replied to the Buddhist disciples, "You should all chant the names of Krishna and Hari very loudly near the ear of your spiritual master. "By this method your spiritual master will regain his consciousness."

Following Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's advice, all the Buddhist disciples began to chant the holy name of Krishna congregationally. When all the disciples chanted the holy names Krishna, Rama and Hari, the Buddhist teacher regained consciousness and immediately began to chant the holy name of Lord Hari. When the spiritual master of the Buddhists began to chant the holy name of Krishna and submitted to Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, all the people who were gathered there were astonished. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the son of Sachidevi, then suddenly and humorously disappeared from everyone's sight, and it was impossible for anyone to find Him.

End of Story

Yours in service of Lord Krishna, Stoka Krishna Dasa.

ChiefCowpie

08-23-2004, 10:22 PM

I don't think that Krishna says specifically that He was Buddha. But Krishna is the original form - the Supreme Godhead, from whom all other Divine Incarnations are expanded.not specifically but kind of...anyways, it would be more accurate to say Buddha is an avatara of Visnu and not Krishna...Krishna is the source of all avataras but that is not to say that all avataras are Krishna... and too, from the Srimad Bhagavatam, it is not specific whether Buddha is a Plenenary Avatara or a Sakyavesa Avatara (empowered jivatma for specific purpose)

and too, even if Buddha is avatara of Krishna...Visnu, Mahaprabhu has clearly delineated that Buddhist philosophy is not Vaisnava

http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/images/headerpage.gif Canto 1

http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/images/chapt.button.gifChapter 3

Krishna is the Source of All Incarnations

(1) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 1) "The Lord as the purusha accepted the universal form of the material world with its sixteen principles of material action to make a start with His creation. (2) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 2) Dormant in the water, from that navel sprouted out of the lotus of manifestation Brahmâ, the father of all beings as the creator.http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/images/bimages/garbod.vishnu.GIF(3) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 3) It is imagined that the purusha, from the excellence of His existence, expanded into all the worlds. (4) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 4) His form seen perfectly thus has numerous legs, thighs, arms and faces, with wonderful heads, ears, eyes and noses, all glowing with garlands and dresses. (5) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 5) These multifarious incarnations are the indestructible source from which all the godly, human and animal beings originate.

(6) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 6) At first the sons of Brahmâ [the Kumâras] were disciplined in austerity for the realization of continuation. (7) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 7) Incarnated next for the sake of its welfare, He, like a boar, uplifted the world out the lower regions. (8) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 8) Thirdly He accepted His presence among the learned (rishis) [as Nârada Muni] for the sake of evolving vedic knowledge for service in devotion without further material motives. (9) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 9) Fourth born as the twin sons of king Dharma in the form of Nara-Nârâyana He underwent severe penances to attain control over the senses. (10) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 10) Fifth with the name of Kapila He gave an exposition to the brahmin Âsuri on the nature of metaphysics and the elements of creation as through time the knowledge was lost. (11) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 11) Sixth, born as the son of Atri from Anasûyâ who prayed for Him, He lectured to Alarka, Prahlâda and others about the transcendental. (12) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 12) Seventh born from Âkûti as Yajn'a, the son of Prajâpati Ruci He, assisted by the godly, ruled over the change of the period of Svâyambhuva Manu together with His son Yama and others. (13) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 13) Eighth, from the wife of King Nâbhi, Merudevî He took birth as King Rishabha and showed the path of perfection respected by people of all stages of life. (14) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 14) Accepting His ninth incarnation from prayers by the sages, He ruled [as Prithu] the earth for the sake of its cultivation and produces, which made it beautifully attractive. (15) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 15) Like a fish [Mâtsya] in the water He kept Vaivasvata Manu after the period of Câkshusha Manu on a boat of protection afloat the waters when the world was deeply inundated. (16) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 16) Eleventh as a tortoise [Kurma] He sustained the Mandarâcala Hill of the theïsts and atheists which served as a pivot in the ocean. (17) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 17) Twelfth was Dhanvantari [Lord of medicine] and thirteenth He appeared as an alluring beautiful woman to the atheists while giving nectar to the godly. (18) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 18) His fourteenth incarnation He appeared as Nrsimha, who with His nails half as a Lion on His lap tore apart the king of the atheists like a carpenter does cane. (19) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 19) In His sixteenth incarnation [as Bhrigupati] He acted twenty-one times against the ruling class that negated the intelligentsia. (20) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 20) Fifteenth He assumed the form of Vâmana [the dwarf-brâhmana] who, from the arena of sacrifice of Mahârâja Bali, begged only for three steps of land, while at heart willing to return to the kingdom of the three worlds. (21) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 21) Seeing the common people as being less intelligent He seventeenth incarnated as Vyâsadeva from Satyavatî by Parâs'ara Muni, to divide the desire tree of the Veda into several branches. (22) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 22) Next He performed superhuman in controlling the Indian Ocean having assumed the form of a divine human being [Râma] in order to act for the sake of the Godly. (23) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 23) Nineteenth as well as twentiest He appeared as Balarâma and Krishna from the Vrishni-family and thus Bhagavân removed the burden from the world. (24) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 24) Thereafter in the Age of Kali His birth as Lord Buddha from An'jana in Gayâ will take place in order to delude the ones envious with the theists. (25) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter3.html#Text 24) Following that at the conjunction of two Yugas when there is hardly a ruler found that is not a plunderer, the Lord of Creation will take birth with the name of Kalki as the son of Vishnu Yas'â.

ChiefCowpie

08-23-2004, 10:36 PM

yes...I see what you are both saying. I know that the Buddhists to not believe in a personal God...but I did read somewhere the reason was because when Buddha came people were not following Vedic principals, they were performing animal sacrifices and what have you, so Krishna came as Buddha and taught in that way, never saying anything about a personal God, because it was better to turn the people away from the animal sacrifices and what not...and little did they know that it was He, Krishna, who was Buddha...that's why I posted the above because it made me think of that and I do believe that Krishna was Buddha because a lot of the bit that I posted is very similar to what Krishna says in Bhagavad-Gita (where I believe He also said that he came as the Buddha)....

http://www.webcom.com/~ara/col/books/BG/gita/bg11.jpg
the story goes that folks were doing animal sacrifices (which are vedic) for the sole purpose of eating meat (which is not vedic) and so Buddha advented himself to deny the Vedas...and too, at this time, vedic thought had deteriorated quite a bit as so many gods and goddesses were worshipped without the understanding on the monotheistic unifying web so Buddha found it easiest to toss out the kit and kaboodle of Vedic thought..."if the Vedas teach this, then I deny the Vedas"

and it is Srimad Bhagavatam that directly describes Buddha as Avatara and not Bhagavad Gita

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-24-2004, 12:14 AM

the story goes that folks were doing animal sacrifices (which are vedic) for the sole purpose of eating meat (which is not vedic) and so Buddha advented himself to deny the Vedas...and too, at this time, vedic thought had deteriorated quite a bit as so many gods and goddesses were worshipped without the understanding on the monotheistic unifying web so Buddha found it easiest to toss out the kit and kaboodle of Vedic thought..."if the Vedas teach this, then I deny the Vedas"

and it is Srimad Bhagavatam that directly describes Buddha as Avatara and not Bhagavad Gita

That's the story...wrong book...sorry there... I haven't read the whole Srimad Bhagavatam... (or even made a dent)...but I do remember that story...

...sorry if I misunderstood...

ChiefCowpie

08-24-2004, 12:38 AM

Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj

Bhakti Bibudh Bodhayan
Though Krishna Das Babaji lived in one tiny corner of the world, his life offers a beacon-like example for all humanity, sending out the powerful message of how everyone can seek out and find happiness in the Divine through taking shelter of the Maha Mantra.

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.
All around the world, everyone is looking for happiness in the various sources of mundane pleasure without understanding that the true fountainhead of pleasure is the Supreme Lord alone. In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy, the master and controller of ultimate joy has given us a simple and efficient means of achieving spiritual perfection. He has Himself become present in this world in His own names and has set no restrictive rules or regulations for chanting them. His only instruction is to chant these Holy Names always and everywhere. Through the chanting of these Holy Names, all of one’s desires will be fulfilled. Krishna Das Babaji’s extraordinary life is living proof that all this is true.

Srila Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj was born a little over a century ago in a respectable family in Bikrampur in the present-day Dhaka district of Bangladesh. He was related to Chittaranjan Das, a famous lawyer and activist for Indian independence. He himself graduated with honors from Dhaka University with a BA degree and seemed headed for an illustrious career in law. However, Krishna Das had a strong thirst for spiritual life. His parents were very pious and made regular pilgrimages to the holy places along the Ganges like Prayag, Benares, Hardwar and Rishikesh. Krishna Das had himself been to Hardwar and Rishikesh several times, but each time returned home disappointed, for he had been searching for a Sat Guru all his life and yet found no solace in the impersonalist doctrines taught by most holy men in these places.

In 1920, the founder of the Gaudiya Math, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada, visited Dhaka with his entire preaching party. Krishna Das came to Srila Prabhupada’s program, and as soon as he saw Srila Prabhupada immediately recognized him as his eternal spiritual master and decided to take initiation from him. It was as though his desires to find a genuine spiritual teacher were fulfilled at the very moment he was losing all hope of doing so. Saraswati Thakur’s discourses were for him like the final arrival of the rains after a long, parching dry summer. A year later, Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Thakur accepted him as his disciple and gave him the brahmachari name of Sadhikananda Das.

Sadhikananda had always been independent-minded and after initiation decided to commit himself fully to the practice of chanting the Holy Name, following the example of Lord Chaitanya’s associate Hari Das Thakur. He came to stay at the Chaitanya Math in Mayapur where he would remain in the brahmachari dormitory all day long to chant the Maha Mantra non-stop behind closed doors. All of this was, of course, in line with Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, but Sadhikananda was soon put to the test, not from outside forces, but from his own godbrothers. Such is the nature of the age we live in.

Many of the other devotees felt that Sadhikananda was neglecting the other menial tasks around the Math usually given to the brahmacharis and thought that his imitation of Hari Das Thakur’s exalted example was artificial. Sadhikananda was eating the math’s food but not making a contribution to its upkeep. They complained to Srila Prabhupada and were surprised to hear the master defend his disciple. One day, after having heard these complaints again and again, Srila Prabhupada said, “If any of you are able to chant like Sadhikananda, you will get all your food and board without any other obligation. Krishna is the proprietor of all things. Taking complete shelter of His holy names means to take full shelter of Him. I want all of you to take shelter of the Lord and His name. If we can do this, then the Lord Himself will us send more of His servants to take care of the other aspects of temple service.”

On hearing Srila Prabhupada’s words, some of the complainers tried to imitate Sadhikananda, but none was able to match his natural enthusiasm for chanting. Within a few days, all of them had returned to their habitual service. As a result, all their criticisms stopped. Even so, Sadhikananda felt uneasy about staying in the math after this incident. Fearing that the master would again be pestered by those critical of his activities, he one night quietly paid his obeisances to Srila Prabhupada and set off on foot for Rishikesh, a famous holy place where impersonalist renunciates go to meditate. His intention was to devote himself exclusively to the chanting of the Holy Name and set an example for the Mayavadis. His message was: “Give up your idea that worshiping the Lord is imaginary. The Lord has descended as His own holy name. So just take shelter of the Maha Mantra: Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. This way you will achieve success in your efforts at perfecting spiritual life.”

In the meantime, Srila Prabhupada was distressed by Sadhikananda’s departure and asked his disciples to do whatever they could to bring him back. Srila Bon Maharaj, an unparallelled orator to whom Srila Prabhupada first confided the task of preaching Lord Chaitanya’s message in the West, went to Hardwar and told Sadhikananda that Prabhupada wanted him to come back to Sri Mayapur. Sadhikananda could not disobey and returned to Mayapur with Bon Maharaj.

On his return, Srila Prabhupada gave Sadhikananda a separate room and told him clearly that his only duty was to chant Hare Krishna. With Srila Prabhupada’s blessings, Sadhikananda would chant the Holy Names in kirtan for eight hours every day and then on his beads for the remaining sixteen. A few devotees did not believe that he was really chanting for all twenty-four hours of every day and decided to investigate; but were astonished to find that it was indeed true. Some others again tried to imitate his lifestyle, but were still unable to do so.

No one could understand how Sadhikananda could chant for twenty-four hours a day, but the mercy of the spiritual master is such that it makes all things possible -- the dumb become eloquent and the lame climb mountains. After reciting the Srimad Bhagavatam for a full seven days, Srila Shukadeva Goswami asked Parikshit Maharaj whether he was hungry or tired. Parikshit replied, “The Srimad Bhagavatam is the wish-fulfilling tree of the Vedas, the essence of all Upanishads. Hearing it gives me the sweetest taste of fruit nectar, rasa malai. By your grace, I have been drinking this rasa malai over the past seven days, so I am not feeling hungry at all.” The nectar of the Holy Name is such that when one gets a taste for it, one forgets even food and sleep.

Sadhikananda Brahmachari thus had no interest in eating fine prasadam or wearing opulent clothes. He used to wear a very short dhoti. He lived according to Mahaprabhu’s instruction to Raghunath Das Goswami: bhälo nä khäibe, bhälo nä paribe, which means not to eat or dress well. After initiation, Sadhikananda Brahmachari was ready to refuse any opulent food or dress for the rest of his life. Instead of seeking material comforts, he chanted very carefully, like Hari Das Thakur, teaching us all that chanting the Holy Name is the essence of human life in Kali Yuga.

Approximately two or three months before Srila Prabhupada’s physical departure from this world, Sadhikananda had a very significant dream. He saw a great procession of devotees led by an elephant and followed by thousands of golden chariots, winding from Calcutta to Mayapur. Heading this procession was Ananta Vasudeva Prabhu, who sat on the elephant. Ananta Vasudeva was a learned scholar, known as Srila Prabhupada’s right-hand man. Some called him Ganesh, because he served as Prabhupada’s amanuensis, copying down his lectures for posterity. In the dream, Ananta Vasudeva was being followed by the rest of his godbrothers on the golden chariots. Everyone was engaged in an ecstatic kirtan. Before they passed through the Sri Chaitanya Math’s gate, however, the elephant went mad and picked up Ananta Vasudeva with its trunk, threw him onto the ground, and crushed him under its feet. Panic spread through the other devotees and the joyful chanting was completely disrupted. Sadhikananda saw the same dream for two days at different times.

I recently heard about this dream from Sripad Hariprasad Das Babaji of Nandagram, a disciple of Bhakti Vilasa Tirtha Maharaj who was Babaji Maharaj’s personal assistant and served him over the last few months of his life. Sadhikananda recognized that the dream was warning him of what was to take place in the Gaudiya Math after Srila Prabhupada’s departure. While he was wondering what he would do in that eventuality, Srila Prabhupada did indeed enter the eternal pastimes of Radha and Govinda on the morning of January 1, 1937. All the clocks in the Bagh Bazaar Gaudiya Math in Calcutta miraculously stopped at 5:30 marking the exact moment of his divine departure.

ChiefCowpie

08-24-2004, 12:39 AM

In the turmoil following Srila Prabhupada’s entry into maha samadhi, Sadhikananda kept aloof from all the politics and refused to join any of the various factions. He left Sri Chaitanya Math and began to wander throughout India, visiting many holy places and living on madhukari. For much of this time he was accompanied by my Guru Maharaj, Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Maharaj. The two friends would joyfully engage in Harinam Sankirtan on their voyages.

Finally, Sadhikananda Das decided to settle in Vrindavan to continue the service of constant chanting given him by Srila Prabhupada. He chose Davanala Kund in Vrindavan to be his place of bhajan. He found a cave near the Kund for living and chanting, like Hari Das Thakur when he resided near Shantipur in a cave inhabited by a poisonous snake. By living in this way, Hari Das Thakur showed us that the Holy Name is our ultimate protector in the Kali Yuga. Similarly, our Srila Sadhikananda Brahmachari gave us the same example by living in a cave near Davanala Kund for six years. While there, he used to take prasad from the nearby math of one of his Godbrothers, Jachak Maharaj.

Sadhikananda Brahmachari then moved to Nanda Maharaj’s garden (Nanda Bagicha), halfway between Teri Kadamba and Nandagram, where he stayed for the next six years, continuing to follow the same lifestyle. After that, he established himself at Sanatan Goswami Prabhu’s bhajan kutir near Pavan Sarovar. This became his permanent base for the rest of his life, even though he frequently traveled to the various different holy places of Vraja and Gaura Mandals.

After many years of life in full commitment to the Holy Name, Sadhikananda one day had a dream in which Vamsi Das Babaji Maharaj ordered him to take the dress of a renunciate, or babaji. Sadhikananda followed Vamsi Das’s order and accepted the babaji dress at Sanatan Goswami’s bhajan kutir at Nandagram in front of a picture of Srila Prabhupada. After taking the renounced order of life, Sadhikananda adopted the name Krishna Das, “servant of Krishna.” By the grace of the Holy Name, he became well known throughout the whole of Vraja Mandal by this name. Even so, for a long time after taking the babaji dress, he hardly spoke at all with anyone except to utter the Holy Name. As a result, many of the villagers used to call him Mauni Baba.

Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj came to know of his original form as a friend of Krishna through the chanting of Holy Name. It happened in the following way: On one of his parikramas around Vraja Mandal, Krishna Das stopped at the Dauji temple near Gokul. Just like Madhavendra Puri in Remuna, Babaji Maharaj sat down to chant and was dozing off when he suddenly woke with a start and began loudly shouting, “Please take me with you! Please take me with you!” He then fell senseless. The Brahmin servants of Dauji saw Babaji Maharaj lying unconscious and took proper care of him, bringing him back to his senses. When they asked him what had happened, he gave no answer. Later, however, he told some close friends what had transpired. He had seen Krishna and Balaram appear from the temple and head for the pasture with a herd of cows. But as they were leaving him behind, Krishna Das had started shouting to them to wait for him. After this incident, Babaji Maharaj always thought of himself as Krishna’s cowherd friend and preferred to sing kirtans connected to the mood of friendship (sakhya). Not only that, but he also cultivated a mood of friendship with all of his godbrothers.

In keeping with this mood of friendship, Babaji Maharaj always moved between the two Holy Dhams, Vrindavan and Nabadwip, the hidden Vrindavan in Bengal. He would spend six months of the year, from January to June, at different maths in Bengal. He mostly stayed at Sri Chaitanya Math, which had been established by his gurudeva, Srila Prabhupada, and in other maths established by his godbrothers, such as Sri Chaitanya Gaudiya Math of His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Dayita Madhava Goswami Maharaj, Sri Chaitanya Saraswata Math of His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Rakshaka Sridhar Deva Goswami Maharaj, Sri Devananda Gaudiya Math of Srila Bhakti Prajnan Keshava Goswami Maharaj, the Gaura Nityananda temple established by Bhakti Saranga Goswami Maharaj, and Sri Bhajan Ashram of His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Hridoy Bon Maharaj. He would spend the other six months of the year in the different places in Vraja Mandal mentioned above.

While staying in the various maths of his godbrothers, Srila Babaji Maharaj would serve the Vaishnavas by leading the kirtans and playing the mridanga. The rest of time, he would chant the Holy Name on his beads. Through this service and his perennially jolly mood, Babaji Maharaj kept on friendly terms with all of his godbrothers. He had no enemy in the entire Vaishnava community. Everyone eagerly accepted his services; indeed, they all felt extremely fortunate whenever he came to stay in their math, even if it was just for a short while.

The above account shows that the Vaishnava’s curse is never really a curse, but a blessing. In the Srimad Bhagavatam, the Vaishnavas’ most beloved scripture, the story is told of how Nalakuvera and Manigriva, the sons of Kuvera, were cursed by Narada Muni to become trees. They stayed rooted to the ground in this form for a hundred years, at the end of which they were to be delivered from the curse by the grace of the Supreme Lord Krishna, the soul of all the universes. When Lord Krishna appeared, His devotee’s words bore fruit during His däma-bandhana-lélä. One day, after Krishna had done some naughty childish prank, His mother Yashoda punished Him by tying Him to a mortar near her husband Nanda’s barn. The words däma-bandhana-lélä are broken down as follows: däma means rope, bandhana means binding, and lélä means pastime. After Mother Yashoda had bound Krishna around the waist with a rope and tied Him to a mortar near the two arjun trees, which were in fact Nalakuvera and Manigriva, she left to do her duties in Nanda’s palace. The child Krishna took this opportunity to crawl between the two trees, dragging the heavy mortar behind Him. The mortar got caught and when Krishna tugged on it with His superhuman strength, the two trees crashed down to the ground in a moment with a great sound, frightening all the residents of the cowherd settlement. As soon as they had fallen, Nalakuvera and Manigriva were freed from Narada’s curse and regained their past forms along with the memory of their past life. They paid their obeisances to Krishna and offered Him prayers before happily returning to their original heavenly homes.

Similarly, though Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj was originally shunned by a few of his godbrothers, this mistreatment actually made him even more beloved of his gurudeva and attracted his special mercy. Through his constant chanting of the Holy Name, Babaji Maharaj was able to realize his original form as a cowherd companion of the Lord, associating with Him eteranally in His abode, Goloka.

Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj frequently travelled with his godbrothers when they called on him. In those days, my gurudeva, His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Pramode Puri Goswami Maharaj, had no math or society of his own, so on occasion Srila Babaji Maharaj liked to go on pilgrimage with him, all the while maintaining his own bhajan practice. On one such pilgrimage, he accompanied my gurudeva and another godbrother, Srila Ratha Prabhu (who wrote many Vaishnava poems and was later known as Srila Bhakti Kamal Abadhut Maharaj) to Ayodhya, the land of Lord Ramachandra.

One day, Ratha Prabhu got very hungry and bought a few guavas in the market for the three of them to eat. There were many Ramanandi sages in the same place, each of whom had his own kamandalu (a metal water pot with a spout). Unaware that the Ramanandi sadhus prohibited anyone else from touching their water pots, Ratha Prabhu quite innocently took one of them to wash his guavas, without first asking for permission. As soon as he touched the kamandalu, however, its owner rushed up to him, snatched it and began to rebuke him in the most impolite language. The other assembled Ramanandi sadhus surrounded Ratha Prabhu and threatened to beat him up for his action. However, Srila Gurudeva and Srila Babaji Maharaj’s spiritual power took effect. They asked the sadhus why they were so angry. The Ramanandi answered, “If you fish-eating Bengalis touch my pot, it becomes contaminated and that will ruin my spiritual practice.” My spiritual master said, “You are mistaken. This man is our godbrother and a saintly man who strictly follows a vegetarian diet. No harmful effects will come from his touching your water pot.”

ChiefCowpie

08-24-2004, 12:41 AM

Some of the Ramanandis said, “Maybe he doesn’t eat fish, but his father surely did.” Guru Maharaj and Babaji Maharaj began to quote from various scriptures to prove that such an understanding was completely false, but they did it in such a humble and polite way that the Ramanandis calmed down and forgot their complaint. The spiritual strength of Srila Prabhupada’s three disciples and the scriptural arguments of Srila Puri Maharaj defused the situation and the Ramanandis left them alone.

This anecdote illustrates how Babaji Maharaj preached the glories of his spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, and how he chanted the Holy Names purely. It also reminds us of how Sriman Mahaprabhu converted the Kazi and the victory of Srila Hari Das Thakur over his oppressors. Once Srila Hari Das Thakur was beaten by the soldiers of the local Muslim magistrate, the Kazi, because Hari Das would not comply with his order to stop chanting the Holy Name. The Kazi then told his followers to beat Hari Das Thakur in the twenty-one public squares under his jurisdiction. The grace of the Lord’s holy name protected Srila Hari Das Thakur from suffering any harm from this cruel punishment. In another incident, the Kazi of Nabadwip broke the mridanga drum used in kirtan at Srivas Pandit’s house and prohibited the public chanting of the Holy Names. As the representative of the Muslim king, the Kazi was feared by all the citizens of Nabadwip, but after he broke the mridanga, Mahaprabhu challenged him by organizing all His devotees into a large sankirtan party and leading them to the Kazi’s house to protest the ban. The Kazi became so afraid that he finally surrendered to Mahaprabhu’s lotus feet. Thus the Kazi became a full-fledged devotee of Mahaprabhu, even though he had been born in a Muslim family. Similarly, Babaji Maharaj’s pure devotional attitude had a transformative power over negative energies like anger.

By the grace of Srila Prabhupada and the Holy Name, Srila Babaji Maharaj was totally free from any kind of mundane attachment. He once bought a piece of land in Raman Reti in Vrindavan in order to establish his own preaching centre or math for the benefit of conditioned individuals like ourselves. He had received some financial backing from a householder devotee and began to buy building materials like bricks and sand, which were meant for a wall and a small building. When Babaji Maharaj went to his plot with a surveyor, however, he saw that the owner of the neighboring property had encroached on his land, appropriating about a foot of it from one side. When Babaji Maharaj complained, his neighbor would not agree to give up even an inch of the land he had taken. Babaji Maharaj became downcast to see such mundane aggressiveness and realized that the desire to own property was at the root of so many problems in life, especially if one wants to engage in bhajan. He immediately told the person, “My land and whatever materials are stored here are yours. I don’t want to get involved in mundane quarrels. Please take it all and do whatever you like with it.” The greedy neighbor was astonished to receive the magnanimity of Babaji Maharaj, and indeed was shamed by it. With this action Babaji Maharaj demonstrated the futility of fighting for acquisitions like land and buildings. The real value in our short lifespan comes from engaging in Hari bhajan.

Though Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj never swerved from Srila Prabhupada’s instruction to live simply and in full commitment to hearing, chanting and meditating on Lord Krishna, one cannot say that he did not serve his spiritual master’s preaching mission. I heard the following story from Sri Banwarilal Singhania, a businessman devotee based in Calcutta. Banwarilal and his entire family were very much drawn to Babaji Maharaj’s perfect Vaishnava humility and desired to render some service to his lotus feet, Babaji Maharaj repeatedly refused to take any form of service from them, but in accordance with his lifelong vow. Nevertheless, when Banwarilal approached him one day in his bhajan kutir at Pavan Sarovar and asked him once again how he could serve him, Babaji Maharaj replied that he would certainly engage him in his most worshipful spiritual master’s service when his gurudeva inspired him. This opportune moment did indeed come a short time thereafter.

Babaji Maharaj happened to be visiting Calcutta on a day when the Vaishnava calendar reported a total solar eclipse. He was staying at a grihastha Vaishnava’s temple and had committed himself to performing kirtan throughout the duration of the solar eclipse as is recommended in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition. Banwarilal heard about this and went to the temple with two friends to join Srila Babaji Maharaj in the kirtan. When the eclipse and the exhilarating kirtan came to an end, Srila Babaji Maharaj went to take a shower, chanting the prayers to the lotus feet of his Gurudeva composed by Srila B. R. Sridhar Maharaj (sujanArbudArAdhita-pAda-yugam). When he returned, he stood before Banwarilal and his friends with folded hands and said, “According to Vedic tradition, it is very auspicious to give in charity to a poor Brahmin. Although I am not a Brahmin…” Before he could finish his sentence, Sri Banwarilal got up, very excited and full of anticipation. He asked what he, an ordinary businessman, could possibly give in charity to a great devotee like Srila Babaji Maharaj.

Maharaj humbly replied that whereas all his godbrothers had over the years rendered valuable service to his worshipful spiritual master and his transcendental preaching mission, he himself had spent his days as a parasite, simply eating and sleeping at the expense of his Gurudeva’s mission. On this day, however, he had been inspired by his spiritual master to be instrumental in whatever way he could to assist his godbrother Srila Bhakti Dayita Madhava Goswami Maharaj in recovering the birth site of his spiritual master on the Grand Road in Jagannath Puri and building a monument there.

ChiefCowpie

08-24-2004, 12:42 AM

Banwarilal was so overwhelmed by Srila Babaji Maharaj’s humility and the wonderful opportunity to serve an eternal associate of the Supreme Lord that he immediately fell down at Babaji Maharaj’s lotus feet. He committed himself to becoming one of the most important contributors to the construction of the temple and sankirtan hall on the site. The cornerstone was laid on March 24, 1980 and the beautiful skyscraping temple, which houses Sriman Mahaprabhu and His alter ego, Jagannath Deva, was officially consecrated on February 5, 1982, the holy advent anniversary of Srila Prabhupada.

To this day Banwarilal is ever grateful to Srila Babaji Maharaj for having engaged him in this transcendental service. It may be said that we Gaudiya Vaishnavas who are spiritual descendants of His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Thakur Prabhupada, the founder-acharya of the Sri Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Saraswata Sampradaya, are today able to offer our respect and obeisances to his lotus feet on the site of his birth through the direct mercy of Srila Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj.

Towards the end of his sojourn in this world, Babaji Maharaj manifested the pastime of appearing ill and was so taken by his well-wishers to the Agra Hospital. When the doctor examined him with his stethoscope, he was astonished to hear the Holy Name vibrating in the stethoscope instead of the sounds of Babaji Maharaj's breath and heartbeat as expected. All he heard was the sound of the Maha Mantra:

HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.
The doctor was puzzled and examined him again, with the same results. He then called his associates to also examine Babaji Maharaj, but everyone heard same holy sound emanating from his chest. Unable to find any illness, they released Babaji Maharaj and he returned to Pavan Sarovar.

Through this and other pastimes Srila Babaji Maharaj personified Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur’s teachings, as found his kirtan, Jiva jago—

jivana anitya jAnaha sAr
tAhe nAnA vidha vipada bhAr
nAmAzraya kori yatane tumi
thAkaha Apana kAje
Life is temporary and full of so many dangers. The body will be destroyed either today or tomorrow, so, don’t waste your time just doing your mundane work. We have to do our eternal job in order to reach the ultimate goal of life. Chanting the Holy Name alone is eternal in the universe. So please take shelter of the Holy Name and engage peacefully in service connected to the Holy Name.

In the Chaitanya Charitamrita, it is said that whatever seems to be distress in a Vaishnava’s life is in fact the greatest joy.

jata dekho vaiSNavera vyavahAra duHkha
nizcaya-i jAnibe tAhA parAnanda sukha
I once saw Babaji Maharaj and Bhakti Srirupa Siddhanti Maharaj get into an argument. Though it looked pretty serious, it was only a friendly quarrel. Though Babaji Maharaj chanted three lakhs of Holy Names every day, when in Nabadwip, he sometimes went to listen to the lila kirtans put on by the Sahajiyas. Siddhanti Maharaj teased him, saying, “O three-lakhs-a-day Babaji Mahashay! You don’t get enough Krishna lila from chanting three lakhs of Krishna’s names? You need to go listen to the Sahajiyas’ kirtan? Why are you making a mockery of Srila Prabhupada’s standards?”

Babaji Maharaj said nothing in response to his godbrother’s criticisms, but returned immediately to Sanatan Goswami’s bhajan kutir where he started to fast. Bon Maharaj, Sridhar Maharaj and many other godbrothers wrote him letters and sent messengers asking him to stop his fast and to return to his normal life. However, it was all to no avail. The Supreme Lord decided to withdraw him from our mortal vision and take him to His own bosom. On Monday, April 12, 1982, at 9:00 in the morning, Srila Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj entered the Lord’s cowherding pastimes, casting us all into an ocean of bereavement.

Many devotees still make the trip to Pavan Sarovar just to see Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj’s samadhi temple, which is being taken care of by some members of the Gaudiya Math in the renounced order. We also pray for his blessings: May he grant us love for the Holy Name and affection for the association of Vaishnavas!

sleeping jiva

08-24-2004, 04:37 AM

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-24-2004, 04:46 AM

Doesn't Krishna say in the Gita that know one could know Him....or something along those lines....?

BlackBillBlake

08-24-2004, 12:45 PM

The goal is to love Krishna, not to know Him. Just know yourself so u can know how to love Him. if u knew Him, you'd be greater than Him. And that's just total phantasmagoria. Knowledge is limited, devotion is not.
But how can we love what we don't know? In the Gita, Krishna says hardly anyone knows him, I don't think He says no-one knows Him. The knowledge of the discursive intellect is limited, but there is a higher modes of knowledge, jnana. Krishna does say that one who follows the path of Bhakti gets the results of the other yogas, so knowledge would seem to be included in this.

BlackBillBlake

08-24-2004, 01:40 PM

Chapter 7. Knowledge of the AbsoluteTEXT 1

sri-bhagavan uvaca
mayy asakta-manah partha
yogam yunjan mad-asrayah
asamsayam samagram mam
yatha jnasyasi tac chrnu

SYNONYMS

http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifsri-bhagavan uvaca--the Supreme Lord said; mayi--unto Me; asakta-manah--mind attached; partha--O son of Prtha; yogam--self-realization; yunjan--so practicing; mat-asrayah--in consciousness of Me (Krsna consciousness); asamsayam--without doubt; samagram--completely; mam--unto Me; yatha--as much as; jnasyasi--you can know; tat--that; srnu--try to hear. TRANSLATION

http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifNow hear, O son of Prtha [Arjuna], how by practicing yoga in full consciousness of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from doubt.

ChiefCowpie

08-24-2004, 03:15 PM

yes but by not knowing Krishna we experience bliss... ignorance is bliss

sleeping jiva

08-24-2004, 05:34 PM

Even Krishna doesn't know Himself! That's what I meant. If u want to become God, what is the use of your knowledge?

hey, check this out. I really like this one. I found it on http://www.krishna.org

Why do we hesitate to tell a new comer who is searching for a guru that Srila Prabhupada, the best guru the world has ever seen, is still here, and one can surrender unto him and go back to Godhead very easily? When we have such a great good fortune, why do we not take full advantage of it? Bhakti Caru Swami (http://www.krishna.org/?author=Bhakti Caru Swami) (08-24-04)


...Prabhupada did not say anything and then in a very soft voice he told me, "Didn't I teach you that the spirit soul is eternal and he never dies?"

That one statement gave me a profound realization: how could the person who taught me that the spirit soul never dies ever die himself? He will always be with us, although some day he may disappear from our mundane vision.

But today, when I look back, I can see that soon after Srila Prabhupada's disappearance we took it for granted that Srila Prabhupada is not here any more - like any other mortal, as he left his body, he is no more. I very strongly feel that this is the greatest mistake we have made. And as a result, ISKCON today is in such a critical condition. Now that we assembled here to celebrate Srila Prabhupada's disappearance pastime, once and for all let us recognize that Srila Prabhupada has not gone away.

Rather, he has simply disappeared from our vision. Although we are not able to see him any more with our mundane vision, he is very much there, watching us from the spiritual sky. He will always be there to guide us, provided we remain fixed up at his lotus feet. He will reward us when we please him and he will chastise us if we make mistake.

It is due to the mistake of considering that Srila Prabhupada is gone we are facing all these difficulties. During his last days on this planet, Srila Prabhupada told his leading disciples many times, "Just maintain what I have given you." At that time we thought it would be such an easy thing to do. However, today we see how miserably we failed to fulfill that instruction. Srila Prabhupada's greatest asset was his devotees, and that asset we started to lose first. Now we are about to lose everything else that His Divine Grace gave us to maintain.

I do not want to blame anyone for all the mistakes that were made, but we must nonetheless recognize them and learn our lesson from them. Therefore, with all sincerity, I say that we are losing everything because we had been thinking that Srila Prabhupada is now dead and gone, and we started to claim our shares of our inheritance. This morning, during her speech, mother Daivisakti pointed out how natural it is to see that Srila Prabhupada is 'the guru' of ISKCON, still today. It occurred to me how clear a fact that is. Still, how seldom we act according to that understanding! Or do we ever act at all with that understanding?

Nevertheless, everyday, in all the temples of ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada is worshipped by everyone. Then why do we hesitate to tell a new comer who is searching for a guru that Srila Prabhupada, the best guru the world has ever seen, is still here, and one can surrender unto him and go back to Godhead very easily? When we have such a great good fortune, why do we not take full advantage of it? It is only when we do so that the glorious days of ISKCON will come back again and we will witness Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's sankirtan movement starting to spread in leaps and bounds all over the world.

If we really love ISKCON and if we sincerely want the Krsna Consciousness movement to spread all over the world in every town and village, then let us broadcast all over the world that Srila Prabhupada is still with us and that anyone who wants to receive his mercy can approach him and establish his eternal relationship with him.

On this day when Srila Prabhupada has apparently left this planet, let us take up the solemn responsibility to recognize the fact that Srila Prabhupada is always present in his ISKCON, and that whoever wants to can come and meet him here, still today. As his humble servants, let us help them to establish their relationship with His Divine Grace.

Bhakti Caru Swami

BlackBillBlake

08-24-2004, 06:30 PM

yes but by not knowing Krishna we experience bliss... ignorance is bliss
Chief, I'm not sure about that.Perhaps the difficulty comes through the definition of the word 'knowledge'. What does it mean to know God? Not an intellectual knowledge, thats certain, because all such is relativistic. But a higher mode of knowledge - vidya, or jnana?
How about Krishna's Self-revealing to his devotee? Knowledge through Grace?
Also, wasn't the distress of the Gopi's at Krishna's departure because they'd known Krishna intimately, and now their direct knowing of Him was to be interupted?
Can their be love without some knowledge?

And Jiva - I'm not trying to become God ! I hardly think that would be possible, since the post is already filled! But to place a limit on Krishna's knowledge by saying He doesn't know Himself can't be right - Krishna is the supreme Brahman - His body is constituted of Knowledge, Bliss and infinite consciousness. It may appear like that here - that Krishna doesn't have full knowledge, but thats just part of the Lila, the play. In reality His knowledge must surely be perfect and complete.

sleeping jiva

08-25-2004, 02:14 AM

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 03:34 AM

"ignorance is bliss"... i was making a funny but too, the highest rasa with Krishna is love and attraction for the boy and not the God

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:28 PM

found this on the net concerning the "long hairs" conversation with S. P. and devotee 1 and devotee 2

(This letter was apparently too long for one posting, so I'll put it in 4 parts)

My eternal friends.

My name was/is Kanupriya. I was invited to participate in a discussion on this site, which I did not know existed, by a member named bangli, who knew me long ago in LA, and who just happened to have my number, so he called me up and told me a story and I looked up the site and here I am. I am quite amazed that there would be a group of people who are interested in the infamous conversation I had with Bhaktivedanta in June of 1975, or that anyone has even heard of and knows about this conversation, what to speak of that portions of the transcript are on web sites.

I’ve spent a bit of time looking over the site, reading a bunch of postings and looking at the profiles of the most active members, and most of you seem relatively sane, and certainly truth seekers, and I even know a few of you, and I like the site, so I’ll be happy to assist you in any way I can towards your further enlightenment.

I read all the postings regarding the conversation including what’s posted of the conversation itself, and all of your speculations and comments. I have a copy of the transcription of the conversation. What has been posted of the conversation on this site is about 11 pages out of 23, from pages 7 to 18, so there’s more of the conversation than has been posted here. The beginning part is the most important because it sets the tone for the rest, but it is alluded to in a later part of the conversation that is posted regarding the issue of you can’t be a disciple if you have long hair, which is a much larger issue than just long hair, which I’ll tell you all about in due course, cause this is gonna’ to be a long long letter. On the transcript, I am Devotee 1 and Jamadagni is Devotee 2.

In order to understand how this conversation came about, what the significance or importance of it is, and how I happened to be there, it is necessary to know the circumstances that led up to it, which I can only tell you from my personal side, so I’ll begin with telling you who I am and what my experiences were with Bhaktivedanta, ISKCON, Jamadagni and the other players in the play, for I have a perspective in all this that no one else could have, since I knew Bhaktivedanta quite well and spent a considerable amount of personal time with him compared to all but a small hand full of devotees. In fact, at one point in 1972, for several months I spent three hours a day with him, an hour of which each day we were alone together most of the times, and I got to ask him all kinds of questions and get all kinds of answers that as far as I can see he never gave to anyone else, or wrote in any of his books, or told in any of his lectures. All I can tell you is that he always told me the truth in response to my questions, but many of the truths he told me are not the same as he wrote in his books or preached in his lectures, as you shall see.

I have only love in my heart for all beings, not because I necessarily actually like everyone or the things they do, but because it’s my natural state of being to flow the energy of love, and I like being there, so I don’t crimp the energy. I have no resentments, nor animosity toward, nor axes to grind with Bhaktivedanta or ISKCON or anything else I have experienced and created in my life, for after all, I’m an astrologer, and according to my chart, I apparently was willing to go through whatever was necessary to attain the state of enlightenment I desired.

I promise to tell you the truth of all this as I remember it, for this was all over 30 years ago, but I have a pretty good memory. I have never told this full story to anyone before, nor would I have ever written down what I am going to be telling you of my relationship with Bhaktivedanta and my experiences in Hare Krishna Land and post it on a web site, nor am I asking you to believe anything I am telling you, or to accept my particular philosophical take on reality, or my interpretations of the meanings of the various things Bhaktivedanta said to me, or even my interpretations of this conversation, but I was requested to provide this information and I see no reason not to do so, and I can only present it from my own point of view, plus it might be of some benefit to someone, and I like being helpful if I can. I’m certainly finding it interesting to be revealing this entire story to anyone for the first time, and even more interesting that anyone’s actually interested!

I’m going to provide you with quite a bit of information here regarding the early history of ISKCON, at least what I know and experienced of it from Jan 69 till Mar 73 while I was there, as well as a bunch of stories of my experiences and conversations with Bhaktivedanta, presented in a way that might give you some insights into his character as I perceived it, and thus a better understanding of my relationship with him and what this conversation was all about. I hope you find it interesting. I read many of your bio’s, and I’m sure quite a few of you will be able to relate to my adventures in Hare Krishna Land.

I was initiated by mail by Bhaktivedanta in Jan 1969 when I was living in my home town Buffalo NY, at which time I moved into the temple there after going there for about four months. I had just turned 20. For the prior couple of years, I had been studying Western astrology, Hatha Yoga, Indian philosophy, meditation, etc. and was a vegetarian, so it seemed like moving into a happy little yoga ashram was my next logical step. The temple had been started by Rupanuga, who was one of the original 12 initiated disciples in New York, and was one of only a half dozen or so temples at the time. There were only a few of us there as the temple had only been there a year; my friends Jagadisha and Praladananda who I knew from college, plus Trivikram and Bhorjan, It was a nice little temple. I worked at the Buffalo library. Rupanuga was a social worker. Jag and Pralad went to college. We had a daily arti and kirtan and class from 7 to 8 am, a kirtan in the evening on Weds. and a feast on Sun. There was no Sankirtan and no book distribution.. “Aaah! The good old days! Chant Hare Krishna and your life will be sublime! A happy little universal prayer that anyone can do without having to change anything else in their lives!” Later in that year Bhagavan and his wife Krishna Bhamani, both of whom I knew in High School, joined along with my High School friend Narottamananda. Nityananda too. Gargamuni and Brahmananda were in charge of the NY temple, Tamal in LA, Satsvarup in Boston. The big three of Mukunda, Guru das and Shyamasundar along with their wives had just left LA and gone to start the temple in England.

At the time I joined, only the Gita and the first canto of SB had been published, and then TLC was published that year. I read the books, but from the very beginning, my interpretations of the books and understandings of the philosophy seemed to be vastly different from everyone else’s, and everyone gave me a hard time about it, especially about my understanding of how you could communicate with Krishna and hear Him talking back to you, and since they were my senior god brothers since they’d been there longer, they were supposed to know better than I, so I was in somewhat of a quandary over quite a few philosophical concepts.

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:30 PM

I first met Bhaktivedanta when he came to Buffalo for a couple of weeks in the early spring of 69 to visit the temple and do a bunch of college and other presentations that had been arranged. Everyone else but me went to meet him at the airport, but as I was the cook, I stayed at the temple to prepare the feast for later in the day, after the scheduled event at the local university, which I went to. So the first time I saw him, I was sitting on the stage at the university at the harmonium, as I was the harmonium player, and he walked up on the stage and sat down, and someone handed him a drum, and he looked over at me and nodded his head and smiled and said, “Lets go” and began to play the drum and I followed at the harmonium, and we were just a couple of musicians doing the show, and it was like that at a dozen other kirtans and presentations we did while he was there. I also went and saw him several times where he was staying, so I got to know him a bit, and he certainly knew who I was. The second time I met him was at a huge kirtan in an auditorium he did with Allen Ginsberg at Columbus OH university in around April 69, which was so wild with thousands of totally insane college students jumping up and down and pounding on chairs and screaming Hare Krishna that it made the national evening news channels. After that he went and spent a couple of weeks in New Vrindaban, and I went there too. He gave a class every morning so I saw him every day. One day, he came outside in the late afternoon and was sitting on the grass on a little hill and a few of us devotees went and sat with him. I said, “Prabhupada, can I ask you a question?” He said, “yes”, so I said, ”Prabhupada, how do you tell which of the thoughts of the mind are which? Which are the thoughts of the spirit soul, which are the thoughts of the material mind, and which are the thoughts of the Paramatma?” It was kind of a cloudy evening, and he said, “The material mind is like the clouds in the sky. The Sun is on the other side of the clouds, but since we’re on this side we can’t see the Sun. The spirit soul is like the Sun, since it is the source of the energy, so all thoughts originate with the spirit soul. Any thought that comes through that is a ‘Krishna thought’, which is viewing the world from the perception of spirit, is the original thought of the spirit soul. Any thought that comes through not viewing the world from a spiritual point of view, is the original thought of the spirit soul that got clouded by the material mind. And it is very difficult to tell the difference between the thoughts of the spirit soul and those of the Paramatma, since both are made of knowledge and are essentially the same.” I said, “Thank-you very much. That was also my conclusion”, but Kirtanananda and Rupanuga and all the other devotees there all totally freaked out from this answer, “Oh no! Prabhupad’s preaching mayavadi philosophy that there’s no difference between the jiva and the Paramatma! Oh no! This does not compute! This does not compute! System meltdown!” After having Bhaktivedanta confirm my understanding, which was vastly different from all the other devotee’s understandings from reading the same books, and everyone having told me my interpretations were incorrect, from that point on, none of my so-called more advanced older devotees could tell me anything. I just concluded that I had a particular type of intelligence that gave me the ability to pick out the truths and to understand the secret meanings behind everything, and after that I trusted exclusively my own intelligence and intuition. Like I said before, Bhaktivedanta always told me the truth in response to the many questions I asked him, even though what he told me contradicted what he told everyone else and what he wrote in his books, but then I knew the right questions to ask.

Everything was nice for a while until Aug of 69 when the big street Sankirtan and book distribution and money collecting programs began in LA & NY. I was sent to NY in Aug to get my Brahmins’ initiation since Bhaktivedanta was visiting NY at the time, plus I was supposed to learn how to do the Sankirtan stuff so we could do it back in Buffalo. So we began street Sankirtan in Buffalo, and in my opinion, it was at this time that the whole movement began its rapid descent into drama and chaos. The little temple was no longer good enough as there were now many more devotees and people coming to the temple, so of course we had to get a much bigger temple with a much bigger overhead which created a lot of financial pressure. When I found myself in Buffalo NY in the winter standing on street corners wearing a skirt in blinding snow storms trying to sell sticks of incense for a quarter, my thought was, “This is not what I signed up for. I want out of here!” so I asked Rupanuga if I could be transferred to another temple, preferably in a warmer climate, and he said he’d see what he could arrange. A couple of weeks later when I asked him if he’d made any progress in finding another temple I could go to, he said, “Yeah. I called up all the other temple presidents and told them about you and they all said they’d be glad to have you, but that it would take at least three of their devotees in trade to replace you and they didn’t have that much manpower.” I said, “What do ya mean?” He said, “Well, you’re the cook, and a great cook at that, and you’re the only one who knows how to play all the musical instruments and who knows all the bhajans and you lead the kirtans, plus you know all the books backwards and forwards and teach the classes, plus you’re trained as a pujari, plus you’re the temple commander and lead the Sankirtan parties. So everyone said they’d be glad to have you but they had no devotee who even came close to being able to do all those things and they’d have to send at least two or three devotees to replace you. So I guess you’re stuck here for a while.”

The whole stressful situation started to make me quite depressed, and it wasn’t just being on the streets in blinding snow storms, it was a whole lot more, so in Jan 1970, I just took off and a week later ended up in LA where Bhaktivedanta was, and moved into the LA temple. Tamal had gone to England so Gargamuni had come from NY and was the temple president while his brother Brahmananda stayed in charge in NY, and it was from this point that everything really started going to hell, ending up with in Aug 1970, Bhaktivedanta accusing Gargamuni and Brahmananda of keeping him prisoner in LA, trying to take over the movement, fasting for a week because he thought they were trying to poison him, and ending up creating a huge scene wherein Gargamuni and Brahmananda were removed from their positions, forced to become sanyassi’s if they wanted to still participate in the movement, and Bhaktivedanta leaving and going back to India. A member on this site, a good old friend of mine named Subal, can provide you with more detailed information regarding this particular fiasco than I can, if you’re interested, and if he has any inclination to tell you about it, since he was there, whereas I had left LA a week earlier before all this came down and had gone to Detroit temple which was run by my friend Bhagavan. I do have an interesting perspective on this whole episode however, as I was in a unique position in the LA temple from Jan 70 till Aug 70, during which time Bhaktivedanta remained in LA. The original temple in LA was on La Cienega, and it was in the late spring of that year they got the current temple on Watseka. Prior to the move, Bhaktivedanta had a separate apartment but after the move he lived in his quarters in the new temple. I was one of the two pujaris in LA, and since I did the late evening arti, I kept a different schedule than everyone else, and as a consequence, I was given my own private quarters in one of two rooms behind the old temple room just below Bhaktivedanta’s quarters. The room adjoining mine was the room where Bhaktivedanta met with visitors, and during July and early Aug of 70, he had all the GBC guys and temple presidents come to LA and met them in this room, and as the walls were thin, I got to hear all these conversations from my room. I could tell from these conversations that something was definitely rotten in Denmark and Bhaktivedanta was not pleased with a lot of stuff, although I did not know the extent of it. One evening in early July, Bhaktivedanta sent for me to come up to his quarters. We chatted for a while and then he showed me how he wanted the harmonium played for the morning kirtan we did every morning after his class, so from that point on I would play the harmonium and begin the kirtan and then he would take over, so in my personal experiences I was having a pretty good time, but the entire atmosphere was becoming more and more stressful. Towards mid August, I confronted Gargamuni at a temple meeting with all the other devotees there, and accused him of a bunch of the things he had been doing, which is probably where whatever reputation I got as a rebel against the temple authorities began. As a result of this, Gargamuni threw me out of LA temple and that’s why I ended up in Detroit. By the time I got there was when the whole thing came down in LA and Bhagavan and all the GBC and temple presidents were called to LA. I guess my personal vindication in the whole sordid affair was that within two weeks of Gargamuni throwing me out of LA, Bhaktivedanta threw him out of LA too. This whole thing was far too much drama for my taste, I really don’t care for soap operas, and it continued at some huge meeting all the devotees, temple presidents and GBC guys had at New Vrindaban a few weeks later, which I attended as I was by then close by in Detroit. I found it comical to have all the big wigs being hysterical and blaming everyone else for all their own misdoings. Bunch of total lunatics.

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:32 PM

It was at the Detroit temple that I first met Jamadagni and we became good friends. We had both studied astrology before becoming devotees so we had a lot in common. I stayed at the Detroit temple from Sept 70 to Dec 70, at which time I was offered the opportunity to go start a temple in Trinidad with another married devotee couple. By this time I was married to the most mismatched to me, true believer rule following devotee girl in existence, who didn’t quite appreciate my unique understandings of the philosophy, so we never got along very well. But I liked the idea of getting away from ISKCON and going to a small island to start a temple, figured everyone would just leave me alone, so off to Trinidad. Quite an experience. In case you don’t know, Trinidad is a little island off the northeast coast of South America. It has about a million people, around half of whom are Hindus whose ancestors were brought to Trinidad from India by the English in the 1800’s. The language is English. It’s a prosperous little country and most people are well educated. The Hindu’s were quite organized and had their little villages all over the island and various Hindu temples and schools. We created quite a sensation to say the least. When we went and did street Sankirtan, we had hundreds of people gather and chant with us and throw us money. The newspaper put our pictures on the front page of the paper and billed us as the American Hindus come to save the lost Hindus of Trinidad. We stayed at a large temple in Port of Spain, and the Hindu organization arranged for us to do a tour of all the various Hindu villages, temples and schools, doing kirtans and lectures and Sunday feasts. Lot’s of fun being a guru. We’d go to various villages and they’d have young girls throw rose petals in our path, and the teenage girls all lined up and put garlands around our necks. Lot’s of fun being a guru, but I did myself in by doing too well. After being there around six months, I had been taking orders from people for books and sets of books, and I called in my rather large order to the book dep’t in NY so they could ship the books. A few days later, the head of the book dep’t. called me back and asked me if I really needed so many books. I said, “Yeah. There’s a half million Hindus who live here who all speak English and these books are already ordered and sold.” And he said, “Your book order represents approximately 25% of all the books ordered for the month by the entire movement! Trinidad is a gold mine! We’re going to immediately send all of our best book distributors there! We’ll make millions!” And they did, and I split.

Back to LA in July 71, but this time as a householder so it wasn’t quite so bad since I was a bit more independent, but as far as I could see, the movement as a whole was not any different than it had been before the whole mess in LA when Bhaktivedanta had gone back to India. I stayed in LA and in early 72 Bhaktivedanta came back and stayed there too. One day, he wanted to do some recordings of some bhajans and he wanted a tampura on the recordings, and as I was the only one at the temple who had a tampura, I was called to go play the tampura at the recording. At the end of the recording, it was time for his daily massage, but his personal servant at the time, my friend Nanda Kumar, was out tripping around in Venice, and when Bhaktivedanta was informed that Nanda Kumar wasn’t back yet, he looked around the room at the few of us and said, “Who will do my massage?” So I of course immediately volunteered as I knew a bit of massage, so I did his massage for the day. At the end, I bowed down and he patted me on the head and said I did a good job, so I asked if I could come back each day while he was in LA and do his massage for him, and he said that would be nice, and this is how I got to spend an hour alone with him each day for several months. Each day for several months, we would do a recording for around an hour, then he had a private class in his quarters for an hour, which I got to attend, where a devotee was reading the philosophies of various philosophers and he would comment on the philosophies, then we’d do the massage. You have to try and understand what a unique relationship it was to be his masseur compared to any other relationship any devotee may have had with him, which was always a rather formal guru to disciple relationship, whereas doing a massage for someone is a comparatively informal relationship, so he didn’t treat me the way he treated everyone else. The first day I did his massage, before hand I was of course somewhat nervous, but I thought to myself that if I wanted to do a good job, which I did, that I had to put aside any fears I might have of this person, so I did and just went in and did the massage. Bhaktivedanta got his massage sitting up on a mat on the floor, just wearing a loincloth. Most of the times we were alone during the massage, but sometimes he would see visiting temple presidents, GBC guys and various devotees, so I got to see how he dealt with everyone, and sometimes when the person left we would talk about it and he would tell me why he had said what he said to the person. The basic jist of how he dealt with everyone, and what he told me of how he dealt with everyone, would be something like this: He knew he was very intimidating to everyone, and devotees were always bringing him various projects and ideas they had, and he really didn’t have the time to evaluate all the different projects, so what he did was to intimidate the hell out of everyone, and most buckled, but if anyone could stand up to him and actually present any rational logic that they had thought about what they were doing, he figured they were capable of doing it, so he let them. It was during this time that I got to ask him all my questions, the answers to which I’m not going to include at this point, except for one. One morning he gave a lecture in which he said that if someone comes and visits the temple even without knowing what it’s all about, they will still have some spiritual benefit. That morning I asked him about that during the massage, and he said, “I know I said that, but actually you should never do anything that your own intelligence does not understand, for how can you even know what to do if you don’t know why you’re doing it.”

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:33 PM

I have to admit that at this time, in spite of my daily association with Bhaktivedanta, I was not happy with the Hare Krishna’s, in fact I was downright miserable. My wife did nothing but fight with me, the leaders were all in my opinion quite insane, and the entire atmosphere was as stressful as it had ever been. I had an organic candy business making Bhakti, Shakti and Bliss bars, and was tripping around selling to various health food stores, when I ran into an old devotee I knew from Laguna Beach who had traveled to India with Bhaktivedanta, but had become disillusioned and had left the movement, so I started hanging out with him and smoking hash just to get a bit of relief. Om Shiva. Bhaktivedanta traveled for a few weeks and then returned to LA. It was during his absence that I started hanging with my friend and smoking hash, and of course my straight laced wife finds out about it and go and tells the then GBC and temple president Karandar, who when they return, then goes and tells Nanda Kumar who then goes and tells Bhaktivedanta. I’d gone to a rather strange headspace during this time, and not just from smoking hash. I was chanting over 100 rounds a day, sleeping a few hours each night and was wearing a saffron dhoti tied like a sanyassi dhoti rather than my white house holder dhoti. Bhaktivedanta called me to his room, took one look at me and said, “What are you doing?” I said I was chanting over 100 rounds a day and wanted to be a sanyassi and live in Vrindaban. I don’t get along with my wife, no one here understands me and I don’t get along with the temple authorities. He laughed and said I’ll tell you when its time for you to go to Vrindaban. He then said so I hear you’ve been smoking hash hish? And I said yes. And he said best not to as no one will understand what I am doing, but he didn’t take it at all seriously. Said I should dress normally and be a house holder and set a good example and come back and do his massages while he was there, so I did.

In the fall of 72, he was returning to India, and Nanda Kumar had left being his personal servant, so I asked if I could travel to India with him as his personal servant. It was fine with him but got axed by the then temple president Karandar who said it would not set a good example since I was a householder. As fate would have it, the next day I was visiting my friend Jayatirtha who was at that time running the Spiritual Sky incense business, and on his desk was a letter from the devotee who was the Spiritual Sky guy in India, requesting that a house holder devotee be sent to India to help him with the business. So, that morning during the massage, I told Bhaktivedanta about the letter and asked since I had wanted to go to India anyway and we had just talked about it, would it be all right with him if I was the one who went to India to help with the Spiritual Sky business, and he said that would be fine. Now, with my recent hash hish episode, I was probably not exactly the devotee that Jayatirtha, in spite of us being friends, would have recommended to be the one to go to India, but since Bhaktivedanta had given me his permission there was nothing he could do, so off I went to India with the wife and the two one year old twin daughters. Yes, I’m going to be a good devotee. I’m going to follow the straight and narrow. So I get to India and meet the two devotees who are running Spiritual Sky there, I’ll call them M and K, and the first thing they say to me is, “Kanupriya, are we glad to see you! Jayatirtha wrote us this letter that Prabhupada had given his permission for you to come, but you’d been smoking hash and he wanted to send this really straight laced devotee from New York instead. So we wrote him back and said he should not go outside of the directions of the Spiritual Master, and that the good association of India would fix Kanupriya up.” And the first place they took me to in Calcutta was their black market hash dealer, and K was shooting morphine! Anyway, this whole situation didn’t work out all that well, although I did spend a couple of weeks with Bhaktivedanta in Vrindaban and about six months in India, but the entire ISKCON scene and atmosphere was the same as in the states, so I decided to return to LA. I spent a week in Vrindaban before I left and this is where I decided to leave the Hare Krishna’s. I was shopping at a little outdoor market and nearby me was an American hippy guy dressed in orange robes wearing a mala, so I started up a conversation, but he was very wary of speaking with me. Turned out he was a disciple of Ramana Maharishi, but we had a nice talk and after a few minutes he said to me, “You know, you’re the only nice Hare Krishna I’ve ever met. Every single other Hare Krishna I’ve met, and I’ve met a lot of them here, immediately starts yelling at me and telling me I’m following a false guru and I’ll probably go to hell!” And I said, “Brother, I know where you’re coming from. I’m about one of the only nice Hare Krishna’s I’ve ever met either!” And I returned to LA in Mar of 73, and the true believer wife lived at the temple, and I went and lived with my friend in Topanga and smoked hash and let my hair grow long and began my serious studies of Vedic astrology. There’s only one episode I want to relate from this period that has something to do with the conversation with Bhaktivedanta that’s being discussed on this site, and you’ll see the relevance of it once we get to the actual conversation. One day I was sitting and thinking that since I had now left the organization and was no longer following the principles, that if it was true (which I really didn’t know if it was or not but this was the standard line) that by being initiated I was somehow karmically linked with the guru, who was from then on forever after responsible for me, and that the guru would have to suffer for my karmas if I didn’t follow the principles, that in all integrity I should renounce my formal discipleship, since I certainly did not want Bhaktivedanta to have to suffer on my behalf. And supposedly the karmic link goes both ways, so that if I were a formal disciple, in all integrity I would also be responsible for the guru’s karma, which as far as I could see was ISKCON and everything it involved, which meant that I would have to spend my life trying to straighten out that mess, even more reason to renounce my formal initiation, so I did. As of the Spring of 73 I no longer considered myself to be an initiated disciple of Bhaktivedanta and stopped using the name Kanupriya.

I spent the remainder of that year primarily studying astrology, and in early 74 Jamadagni came from Hawaii and we studied together till he went back to Hawaii in the fall of 74. I stayed in LA and he returned to LA in the Spring of 75. It was during his time in Hawaii that the whole episode occurred that led to our conversation with Bhaktivedanta. To tell you the truth, I really don’t know the whole story of what happened in Hawaii, was never really all that interested, so if you want the details you’ll have to get them from Jamadagni. I remember Jamadagni told me a bit of it, something about his helping the then temple president, his friend Sudam, set up the legalities in such a way that the temple was no longer under the authority of ISKCON, which caused quite a ruckus and Jamadagni was labeled as a demon and bore the brunt of the whole thing, which apparently he didn’t appreciate very much, whereas I just said “Wad’ya expect?”, but then he was always a much more sincere crusader rabbit than I ever was, and this is what he wanted to go and talk with Bhaktivedanta about, which finally brings us to June of 75 and our infamous conversation.

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:34 PM

The meeting with Bhaktivedanta was arranged at the request of Jamadagni by a mutual devotee friend who at the time was named Rebatinandan Swami. I personally had no particular interest or desire in seeing Bhaktivedanta as I had no particular issues to resolve, and I already had many pleasant memories of the times I spent with him, but I wasn’t opposed to seeing him either, so when I was invited to attend the meeting, I went. I had left the organization two years earlier, and during that time I had let my hair grow back so it was quite long, and I had a beard as well. Jamadagni’s hair had grown a bit long too at that time, but not like mine. At the meeting was only Bhaktivedanta, Jamadagni, me, Jayatirtha and Satsvarupa. Upendra, who was Bhaktivedanta’s personal servant at the time, was around but in another room.

First I’m going to tell you about the conversation at the beginning between me and Bhaktivedanta that’s not posted here that set the scene for the rest of the conversation, and my interpretation of what it meant. Then I’ll go into the rest of it, which is mostly all the stuff that Jamadagni was trying to resolve. Then I’m going to just give you a few quotes from Bhaktivedanta from the conversation, and show you all the truths he ended up telling as a result of my initial question, cause like I said, he always told me the truth. I read a rather long posting here on this site by dirty hari, who did a pretty good analysis of what happened before and during the conversation, suggesting that Bhaktivedanta was probably told beforehand a lot of not so nice things about Jamadagni, and that is probably why he appears to be so hostile to Jamadagni, and to me too I guess. I’d tend to agree with his evaluation as well as most of his interpretation of the events,. I’m sure you’ll probably have a few questions about all of this which I’ll be happy to respond to. And thus we begin with the part of the conversation that is not on the posted transcript.

When Jamadagni and I walked into the room, Jayatirtha said, “Prabhupada, these are your two disciples Jamadagni and Kanupriya.” Bhaktivedanta didn’t know Jamadagni, but as you know he did know me, so he looked at me and said, “You cannot be my disciple if you are keeping such long hairs.” Well, you know me by now, and I knew this was being recorded and would go down to posterity, and I figured there must be some reason I’m here and going through this, and he’d set himself up with an opportunity for me to have him tell the truth about things, and as you know he always told me the truth, so even though I already knew the answer to this question, I said, “Prabhupada, does that mean I can’t be Krishna conscious and return to the Spiritual Sky?” And he said, “Of course not! Krishna doesn’t care if you have long hair! Disciple means one who follows the discipline. I wanted people to be recognized as Hare Krishna people, so to be a disciple means to keep shaved head with sika and tilok.” So I said, “But Prabhupada, the philosophy as all the devotees tell everyone it is that in order to become Krishna conscious and return to the Spiritual Sky you have to be initiated.” And he said, “That is the standard. I have only set up the standard for those who can follow the standard. If you are above the standard or below the standard you do not need to follow the standard. It is not as if the entire world has to become my disciples!” I said, “Thank-you Prabhupada. You never explained it this way before.”

I hope you can see the meaning of all this, especially if you will recall the story I told you about when I renounced my formal initiation, regarding that how initiation is presented is that it means this eternal karmic bond between the guru and the disciple, because what Bhaktivedanta just said is that this entire conception of what initiation really means is a fairy tale! As is the necessity of even being initiated in the first place! As is the necessity of following any of the slavery rules of the Hindu Caste System, also known as Varnashram Dharma or the so-called Vedic Culture. And trying to lead the life of this fairy tale and a whole bunch of other fairy tales was and is the cause of all the complications in Hare Krishna Land.

There is not a single person who ever joined the Hare Krishna’s because they woke up one morning and said to themselves, “You know! I suddenly have this burning desire to devote my life to spreading the Hindu Caste System all over the world in the name of spirituality! I think I’ll join the Hare Krishna’s and pretend I’m a Hindu Brahmin from 5,000 years ago!” Every single person who came to the Hare Krishna’s did so because they were seeking their own spiritual enlightenment, and for no other reason, and were erroneously told that they had to adopt the rules and lifestyle of a particular obscure caste of Hindu Brahmins in order to do so, and they were told there was no other way, and that they had to be initiated, and that in order to be initiated they had to follow all these rules and adopt this lifestyle. And now Bhaktivedanta said none of this was true! It’s not necessary to be initiated. If you are initiated as a disciple it is a fairy tale that there is now some eternal karmic link between the guru and disciple. Disciple means one who follows the discipline, and that’s it! And whatever else you may think it means is a fairy tale! And from this particular bit of “truth” it is now possible to distinguish all of the other fairy tales from all of the other “truths”. The fairy tales are the way the philosophy is presented as part of the Hindu Caste System to the plebian masses, which is called the “standard”, such as you have to have a guru, and be initiated by the guru, and do what the guru says, because without the guru you can’t become spiritually realized and go to heaven when you die. The “truth” is what’s really going on behind all the fairy tales

BlackBillBlake

08-25-2004, 01:34 PM

hahaha,

I'm sorry I can't find the quote, but I read it. I didn't make it up. Have u seen the picture where Krishna sees His reflection on the floor and becomes captivated? That's something similar. I didn't say you are trying to become God, I was just talking to everybody. Especially about buddhists. yeah, u got the good point. What is knowledge? If u know things and you utilize them for your satisfaction instead of satisfying Krishna, what is wise about that? U are slave anyhow. I'd call it mystic powers, lot of people like to have them just becuz they want to be Gods themselves. The real knowledge is to know the Supreme controller and then to surrender to Him. The real knowledge is to explain others how to love Krsna. U used the word relativistic -that's very accurate. We can't say what is knowledge. There is also a moment when Krsna shows Arjuna His Universal form and Arjuna is scared, he doesn't wanna! He just want see Krishna as his two handed friend. The same with Vrndavana's citizens, they didn't treat Him like a Supreme God, they just loved Him without any knowledge. The sincerity is what counts. If u love Krsna for no reason, thats a perfection. And if u can explain why you love Him for no reason, then it is a knowledge. Do u agree? take care :) haribol!
Two things here Jiva - you're right in saying that the pursuit of mystic powers, siddhis, is a distraction from the true path. In my opinion, some modern so called 'spiritual paths' eg Wicca, are seeking this only.

I can only say that Love for Krishna is there quite naturally in everyone - we just have to uncover our dormant love for Him - To love God is our true nature, all this materiel life and so on is given us for this one end.

And you're right about the residents of Vrindavana - they don't think of Him as God, but as their Dear Krishna - but still, he manifests to them in a way which shows that he is God - see my previous post from the 'Krsna' book where Yashodamayi looks into His mouth and sees the Visvat-Rupa, the Universal form.

Just one more point - part of the problem comes from the paucity of the english language - we have only one word for love, whilst I have read that in sanskrit there are over twenty words - and the same is true of the word 'knowledge'.

Love.

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:37 PM

I’ll give you a couple examples of the “truths” you can separate from the fairy tales by following this method of understanding, and then I’ll get back to commenting on and explaining the rest of the conversation. I hope I’m not boring you, but this is my take on the meaning of this conversation and on a lot of the other answers Bhaktivedanta gave me to questions I asked him. So here’s an interesting fairy told to five year olds regarding something seemingly as innocuous as worshiping a plant called Tulasi. “This plant named Tulasi is a devotee and is the very favorite plant of the biggest of the big Gods in the sky named Vishnu, and by worshipping this plant we are worshiping Vishnu and making Vishnu happy, and if we make Vishnu happy then we will become free of all our bad karmas, even the baddest of the bad karmas which would be from killing a Brahmin, and therefore all our bad karmas that were going to get us in the future in this life, and would make us take bad future lives too, will all be burnt up and we’ll get to go to heaven when we die. All we have to do is to put a little dress on the plant, and dance around the plant, and sing a song for the plant, and put a little water on the planet, and Vishnu will accept our service and we’ll be freed from the bad prison house of Mannequin Land, because this is a really special plant and Vishnu really loves this plant more than any other plant in the whole wide world!” And what’s the “truth?” The purpose of the ritual of worshiping the Tulasi plant is to attain the experience of Sat Chit Ananda, to experience the spiritual dimension of reality. This is accomplished, as are all other rituals, by following particular techniques that enable you to focus you mind and get it to stop thinking about all the usual junk it thinks about so you can experience the spiritual dimension. Dancing around the plant is known as “asana”, ritualistic bodily movements or positioning, which is meant to bring about a sense of separation between you, the eternal consciousness and the mannequin. Singing is known as Pranayama, which is purposely altering the normal rate of breathing which is something else to do that further helps to focus the mind, looking at the pretty plant and the candles is known as Pratyahara, which is an “eye fascination” that causes the brain to add higher percentages of Alpha and Theta waves to the usual scattered Beta waves of the brain, which will cause your conscious mind to stop thinking about whatever else you were thinking about and focus on what you’re doing at the moment, which is called meditation. Listening to the singing and the music is known as Dharayana, or focus of the hearing, which further focuses the mind and helps you think about what you are doing. If you can ever get your mind to actually totally stop thinking about all the usual things it thinks about, which is mostly stuff in the past and the future, and focus completely on what you’re doing in the present moment, and if you correctly know why you’re doing all this stuff in the first place, which is know as Dhayana, or philosophical understanding, you will be able to experience the spiritual dimension to reality. You will first experience what is known as Sat, which is the experience of your Self as the eternal consciousness completely different from and separate from your mannequin. You will experience your mannequin as nothing more than a big puppet dancing around, and you exist on another dimension and just experience through it from afar. You will also experience your Self as the detached watcher of the usual thoughts of the mind that pertain to the mannequin and its various designations and activities here in Mannequin Land. You will also experience eternity, that you have always existed and will always exist and that there is no time. Chit, or knowledge, is experienced by being able to actually perceive the consciousness in the plant as being something completely different from and separate from the physical form of the plant, and that the consciousness of the plant is of the same spiritual nature as your Self, and being able to make the connection with that consciousness, so you can have a relationship with the plant and can talk to the plant and feel some emotions for the plant, as well as experience that the consciousness of the plant is aware of you as well. You then get to walk out the door, remaining in the experience of your Self as the eternal consciousness, which is called samadhi, and see and connect with the consciousness in all the other plants and trees all other living things. I f you like, you can then make the connection with the consciousness of the being who pervades the Earth, generally referred to as the “Great Spirit”, and to innumerable other eternal beings as well. This is the experience of the spiritual dimension of reality, which is technically known as having attained enlightenment or Yoga. Experiencing the spiritual dimension of reality will make you really happy, which is known as Ananda, or bliss. When you experience Sat Chit Ananda, you will have freed your Self from the illusion that you are bound in the material world, which is know as “nitya bandha”, (eternally conditioned) and experience that you have always been eternally liberated, which is known as “nitya siddha”. At that point you have returned to the eternal infinite dimension, and will live happily ever after.

Here’s just one more, but this is the biggest “standard” fairy tale of them all. “There are two categories of eternal beings. Some are big and infinite and all powerful ‘Gods’ and are known as Vishnu and His various forms, and some are little and not so powerful and are meant to ‘surrender’ to and serve the big ‘Gods’. The little guys are known as ‘jivas’, and we’re sorry to have to tell you this, but you're a jiva. The big ‘Gods’ and the little jivas all originally lived happily together in the eternal infinite realms, until something bad happened and a bunch of the little jivas went bad and decided they wanted to be like the big ‘Gods’, which of course was impossible since they were just inferior little jivas, so the bad little jivas had to go to the bad world of Mannequin Land where they could pretend they are ‘Gods’, which is unfortunately accompanied by the suffering of repeated births and deaths, until they learn their lesson and stop trying to play ‘God’, and surrender to their role of servant of the big ‘Gods’, and thus gain parole for good behavior from the bad prison house of Mannequin Land, and get to go back to the eternal realms and live happily ever after.”

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:38 PM

This particular philosophical take on the nature of infinite reality is known as “Salvationism”, and has been presented as this fairy tale for thousands of years by the Brahmins of the Hindu Caste System for the benefit of the plebeian masses as an explanation for what we’re all doing here, as well as a motivational tactic to inspire the masses to make sure they follow all the rules of the caste system as the only method of attaining enlightenment and liberation. This is another one of those things known as the “standard” explanation. And what’s the “truth?” The Truth is called Sat Chit Ananda. Sat is eternal consciousness. Consciousness is comprised of light and colors, sounds, flavors, odors and “touches”, in infinite variety, all at the same “time”. Just as it is impossible to have “older” and “younger” beings in the dimension of Sat Chit Ananda where everyone is eternal and there’s no such thing as older and younger, it is also impossible to have an aspect of Sat Chit Ananda which is “greater” or “lesser” than another aspect, an aspect which is comprised of infinite colors, and another aspect which is comprised of only a finite number of colors, which would thereby make some beings “greater” and some beings “lesser”. So this particular conception of eternally “greater” and “lesser” beings is a fairy tale because it creates an impossible duality in a non-dual realm. There are no categories of greater and lesser eternal beings in the dimension of Sat Chit Ananda. There are no jivas.. There are no “inferior” or “lesser” beings. There are no “superior” beings. There are no “supreme” beings. There is no “original” being. There are no “more powerful” beings. There are no “less powerful” beings. There are no “expansions” of beings. These dualistic concepts simply do not exist in the dimension of Sat Chit Ananda. They only exist in the minds of those who are experiencing within this physical realm of duality. There are an infinite number of equal eternal infinite beings, and you’re one of them! As long as anyone maintains within their mind this illusory conception of eternally greater and lesser beings, that very thought creates the separation that makes it impossible to experience any of those beings, because you can’t experience them until you both correctly understand and experience your own eternal infinite Self, and if you think you’re a being who is in some way eternally different from and lesser than those beings, you can’t experience either the true nature of your infinite Self or theirs. So what’s this physical dimension we’re all experiencing and why are we experiencing it? Well, we’re all eternal infinite beings just being our infinite Selves! As eternal infinite beings, you’d think we could do anything wouldn’t you? But we can’t! There’s two things we can’t do, and this is why we’re all “here” experiencing this particular realm of three-dimensional space and time. First, because we’re eternal, which means we have always existed and will always exist, we cannot eliminate our existence. Therefore we’re stuck! We exist forever and we can’t not exist. Secondly, because we’re infinite, we can’t become finite. We can’t become something less than we are, nor can we not express some aspect of our infiniteness. Therefore we’re stuck again! We’re stuck having to “be all that we can be” forever and ever. As eternal infinite beings, we are capable of dreaming up and creating an infinite variety of things. This particular physical manifestation is one of the infinite possible things we could dream up and create, so we dreamed it up and created it! As the creators of this physical dimension, we are experiencing here out of our own free will and creative self-expression. We are here continuing to create and enjoying our own creation. We cannot become "liberated" because we are not "bound" in the first place! We are not “bad” for being here! We are not separated from some “source” that we have to get back to! We are not here to prove ourselves worthy of going to a better place! We are not here to "clear" our bad karma. We are not on some miserable wheel of samsara karma repeated birth and death until we gain "liberation" by "surrendering" to the will of some superior being. We are all free and independent creators and we can go anywhere we want, be anything we want and do anything we want. Who we all really are as beings of unlimited freedom, creativity and boundless joy is exemplified by Krishna and the life he led. The physical world is not a prison house from which we are supposed to escape, it’s an amusement park for eternal infinite beings killing eternal time trying to dream up something new. When you experience all this, you will cease considering yourself to be the dreamt, and become the dreamer.

So now back to the rest of the conversation, some of which is included in the transcript on this site. Yes, Jamadagni and I were apparently way ahead of our time in being able to see how “absolute power” corrupted those in positions of leadership within the movement, the observation of which apparently turned out to be correct, as these leaders (as far as I’ve heard since I really haven’t been around or involved or paid much attention to it all since 73 when I left) ended up causing quite a bit of difficulties within the movement, especially ante Bhaktivedanta when they became the “gurus”, which the rest of the devotees eventually had to deal with. To me this was all the inevitable result of the philosophy of the “miserable material world” that you have to try and escape from. If you think this is a miserable material world, you will create within your personal life a miserable material world to live in.

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:39 PM

And it was definitely true that Bhaktivedanta was not told and therefore did not know about whatever things were going on that he definitely would not have approved of. So Jamadagni, as I said before, a far more sincere devotee and crusader rabbit that I ever was, apparently set out to tell him about it all, since that’s what I can see the conversation is about now that I’m reading it again. I really didn’t know at the time what Jamadagni specifically wanted to talk to Bhaktivedanta about. We didn’t discuss it before hand, and as I said before, I wasn’t really all that interested in whatever fiasco had happened in Hawaii. I personally entered the arena with no agenda whatsoever, not to support Jamadagni, and certainly not to tell Bhaktivedanta about the corruption of the leaders, cause I personally couldn’t have cared less.

You can read the conversation yourself and see all the things Jamadagni said about the various difficulties and problems within the movement, since the majority of the conversation was between him and Bhaktivedanta. I’ll just give you one quote from Jamadagni that’s from the beginning and isn’t on the post on this site, and you’ll see why this whole conversation got the response from the temple authorities that it did, and why the tape was purged from the archives. “So we are trying to speak to you that some of the men who you have appointed to positions of administration are greatly misusing that responsibility, and the general public opinion is that they are acarya in the same sense that you are acarya, and so we accept you as our guru but we do not accept the GBC as our guru so that they can speak on everything because they are not realized like you are realized. So when they misuse that power it causes some of us very great difficulty in pursuing our own Krishna consciousness.” Yup! Well, I guess that just about says it all! Can’t possibly imagine why all the movements leaders got so bent out of shape over that! And I again agree with dirty hari’s evaluation of what Bhaktivedanta had been told about Jamadagni prior to the conversation, which accounted for his attitude, as well as the evaluation of when Bhaktivedanta’s attitude changed when he realized he had not exactly been told the whole truth of the situation; but as far as I’m concerned this is all irrelevant, as is the part about the King guy and the 4 billion body guards, as is all the sociological stuff about the problems of devotees in the movement, as is all the bad things all the bad leaders were doing. To me, all that’s relevant are the various “truths” Bhaktivedanta told which are different from the usual fairy tales, and how you can use those truths to then be able to separate all the other truths from all the other fairy tales.

So here’s the only few other quotes from Bhaktivedanta from the conversation that I consider to be the various “truths”, some of them similar to the first truth already discussed regarding the concept of initiation, and then I’ll give you my interpretation of what I think it all means. Some are from the parts on this site and some are from the other parts.

“They are all neophytes. If you show something which is beyond our jurisdiction then they may be influenced. They are not all very advanced. You may be very advanced but they are not very advanced”

“If you are above the general principle that does not mean you cannot become Krishna conscious, and if you are lower than the general principle that does not mean that you cannot become Krishna conscious. Krishna consciousness is unconditional, but we have got some general principle, to make step by step.”

“Without becoming my disciple you can become Krishna conscious.”

“Disciple means to agree to follow the discipline, to abide by the rules given by the Spiritual Master That’s all!”

“The general rule is that one cannot make any spiritual advancement without taking shelter of a Spiritual Master, but if you are more advanced then your position is different.”

“If you think you are so advanced that you don’t need following discipline that means you are advanced, don’t require it, and can still be Krishna conscious.”

Even though I would not consider myself to be a disciple of Bhaktivedanta, it would be impossible for me to go outside of his instructions to me, for he told me to always trust my own intelligence and never accept anything that my intelligence did not understand. The only way I could possibly go outside of his instructions, would be to totally give up my own intelligence, move into a Hare Krishna temple or find some other guru guy propounding all this same stuff, and start believing all the fairy tale explanations.

My basic interpretation of the quotes I just listed, is that the common people (the neophytes) are basically considered to be too stupid to be able to be told the actual truth about anything, so they are given all the fairy tale explanations so they can take everything step-by-step. If buying into all the fairy tales is what you think you have to do to become Krishna conscious, and you’re not smart enough to be able to figure out the actual truths from the fairy tales, then you get to live a life of fairy tales. If you’re smart enough to be able to figure out the truths, then you don’t. The fairy tales are all the “standard” explanations of the Hindu Caste System, which includes about 90% of all the information presented in all the so-called infallible books. The “truths” are such things as there is actually no such thing as “initiations”, there are no “lineages” of gurus, there are no Brahmins, there are no sanyassi’s, there is no need to follow all the cultural rules of the Hindu Brahmins in order to attain spiritual awareness, and Krishna doesn’t care if you have long hair! The problem with fairy tales is that because they are fairy tales, you have to believe them (which is why you can’t ask why because there is no why), but the word “’belief” has no meaning, nor does the word “faith”. A belief is simply a thought in words that the person has attached a certain amount of emotion to, and they keep thinking the same thought over and over again, so now the feel they have “faith” in their “belief”. Belief is meaningless because it is not based on intelligent perception and understanding, and if you don’t fully understand what you are doing, why you are doing it and how the various processes of attaining the experience of Sat Chit Ananda actually work, you can’t get the experience. This is what Bhaktivedanta taught me for which I shall be forever appreciative, how to trust my own intelligence and how to separate the truths from the fairy tales. Every answer he ever gave me to any of my questions, including in this conversation, was the truth separated from the fairy tale, but then like I said before, I only got these truths from him because I knew the right questions to ask, to everyone else he gave the fairy tale. And in my opinion this is the only importance of this conversation, that perhaps now you can also learn how to trust your own intelligence and be able to figure out the truths from the fairy tales.

As I said at the beginning, of my own accord I would never have written this story down and posted it on a website. I am a very private person. These are my personal experiences, my personal relationship with Bhaktivedanta, and my personal realizations. I have no concern if anyone likes the story or either agrees or disagrees with anything I have written here. I was asked to make a posting regarding this conversation and I have done so according to who I am. When I was asked to make the posting, at first I was a bit hesitant, but then I thought, “Wouldn’t it be nice if someone actually got some benefit out of whatever it is I write that would help them make a better connection with their own eternal infinite Self!”

Everything I have to say directly regarding this conversation is concluded at this point, but for anyone who might be interested, I’ll give you a couple more fairy tales and the truths behind them.

BlackBillBlake

08-25-2004, 01:41 PM

"ignorance is bliss"... i was making a funny but too, the highest rasa with Krishna is love and attraction for the boy and not the God
Ah Chief! I thought as much...ie that you were joking.

I know that the rasa of conjugal love is the highest - but its still Krishna's Divine nature that is behind the attraction of the Gopis - or am I wrong in this?

Hari Om.

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:43 PM

This is a very scary fairy tale told to five year olds. “We are all bad for being here in the bad world of Mannequin Land. Our very existence is bad and the things we do are bad and will bring us bad karma for which we’ll have to suffer in the future. Since one of the things we do a lot of is to eat, if we don’t know the right magic words to say before we eat the food, we’ll get really bad karma just for eating! Says so in the book! So we have to get the magic words from the magic Brahmin, cause they’re the only ones who know the right magic words to say, and then we have to make sure we always say the magic words before we eat the food. When we say the magic words, the God from the sky comes down and eats the food, and we don’t have to get any of the bad karma we would have gotten if we hadn’t said the magic words, plus, the food now becomes magical food, and just eating the magical food will now free us from all our bad karmas and we’ll all get to go to heaven when we die.” And the truth. Once again, all rituals are the same and are meant to do the same thing, to get your idiotic mind to stop thinking about all the usual idiotic stuff it thinks about and to focus on what you’re doing in the present moment so you can experience your Self as the eternal infinite Sat Chit Ananda consciousness you really are. And just what would that experience be in regards to food that it’s so important to always do this ritual before you eat? The experience to be gained is that you are the flavors of the foods you are eating, which is called experiencing the spiritual dimension to reality. You are the consciousness. Consciousness is comprised of infinite varieties of sensory essences. You are not experiencing an “external world”, you are only experiencing your Self. You are made of infinite flavors. When you are tasting the food, you are bringing to your conscious awareness that one aspect of your Self which is the particular flavor of the food. You are the colors you see, you are the sounds you hear, you are the flavors you taste, you are the odors you smell. Consciousness only experiences it Self. To experience this is to experience Sat Chit Ananda, the spiritual dimension of reality. Since eating is something we do so often, if you can learn how to focus when you are eating and experience your Self as the flavors of the food, then you will be able to maintain that same focus and be able to continually experience your Self as the eternal infinite Sat Chit Ananda consciousness you really are.

This is just one last fairy tale, but it’s a very important fairy tale since it involves the primary technique for experiencing the various aspects of your eternal infinite Self, and if you don’t know how the techniques really work, you can’t get to a deep enough state of meditation to make them work. So here’s the fairy tale. By the reaction you have to this one you’ll be able to know what actual desires you have for you own enlightenment, and what vested interests you have for living in a world of fairy tales and beliefs. “The Sanskrit language is a magical language, and repeating particular Sanskrit words known as ‘mantras’ or ‘Holy Names of God’ in and of themselves will enable you to attain both the experience of your own eternal Self and the experience of the ‘God’, even if you don’t know what any of the words mean. The ‘God’ and the name of the ‘God’ are the same, and by repeating the name of the ‘God’ you are thereby associating with the ‘God’ and will be purified of all your bad karma and you’ll get to go to heaven when you die.”

And the truth. You are an eternal infinite being currently having the experience of the illusion of finiteness in the world of Mannequin Land. If you choose to live in the temporary delusion of your Self as being a mannequin, you have every right to do so, but if you would like to gain, at least to some degree, the experience of your eternal infinite Self while you are still experiencing through your mannequin here in Mannequin Land, there are particular techniques that will enable you to gain that experience. The experience both of your own eternal infinite Self and of any other eternal infinite Beings, is beyond the usual range of the thoughts of what is called the material mind, the thoughts of which basically deal with the mannequin and it’s various designations and activities here in Mannequin Land. The material mind is like the clouds in the sky, and You, the eternal consciousness, are the Sun on the other side of the clouds. The entire purpose of doing all of the techniques is to clear away the clouds in the sky so you can see the Sun. You do not have to do anything to become the Sun, you already are the Sun.

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:44 PM

The techniques all enable you to gain control of the thoughts of the mind so you can clear away the clouds and thus experience the Sun, but there’s a real lot of clouds and therefore we need a real lot of techniques to clear them away, cause until they’re all cleared away, you can’t completely see the Sun. The four basic techniques of gaining control of the thoughts of the mind so you can clear away the clouds, are Asana which is ritualistic bodily motion or positioning, Pranayama which is altering the normal rate of breathing, Pratyahara which is staring at something intently, and Dharayana which is focus of the hearing. The fifth step is called Dhayana which is philosophical understanding, which is basically what are you doing all this stuff for and what’s supposed to happen to you by doing it. The chanting or singing of mantras fulfills both Pranayama and Dharayana within the process, but the use of mantras has the possibility to accomplish more than would just chanting meaningless words or words about Mannequin Land, because the mantras have meanings that are the various qualities and attributes of the energies of Sat Chit Ananda, and you know what the meanings are. The four techniques will slow down all the usual thoughts of the material mind and will take you to a light state of meditation which is known as Alpha, which is the beginning of letting a little bit of Sun shine through the clouds, but there’s still a lot of clouds so there’s still a lot of thoughts in the mind pertaining to your life in Mannequin Land, but the little bit of Sun shine feels real good, as you will gain a bit of the experience of Sat Chit Ananda. You will feel a slight sense of separation from your mannequin, have a sense of timelessness, a feeling that you are connected to something other than your usual self, and you will feel a greater amount of positive emotions as the Sunshine of Ananda shines upon you. These are light meditational states and can be gained regardless of what you are chanting or singing, for after all, every single religion and spiritual practice in the entire world uses these same four techniques, and people must be getting something out of it or no one would keep doing it, but this is just a little bit of Sunshine and there’s still a whole lot of clouds. In order to clear away the rest of the clouds, it is necessary to get to a much deeper state of meditation known as Theta, and this is where the use of mantras comes in. If you use a mantra without knowing what the mantra means, or think that you’re just supposed to listen to the sound of the mantra cause the mantra’s going to do all the work and therefore not think anything at all, it will work, but it will only work to take you to light states of Alpha meditation as just described, which is basically Kindergarten compared to the depth of meditation you need to get to in order to get the full experiences of Sat Chit Ananda. Every mantra, every name, is the representation of a particular aspect of the energies of Sat Chit Ananda, and you have to know what the mantra or name means, and which aspects and qualities of spiritual energies it represents if you are going to be able to use the mantra to get you to a deep enough level of meditation to awaken within you the qualities represented by the mantra. You can’t just listen to the mantra or just focus on the mantra with the purpose of quieting the usual thoughts of the conscious mind, or that’s all you’ll get from using the mantra, which is the light states of meditation described. You must know what the mantra means, what are the unique qualities and attributes of Sat Chit Ananda represented my each mantra, and you then have to think of those qualities and attributes as you do the mantra in order for the mantra to take you to a deep enough state of meditation to actually experience the Sat Chit Ananda qualities of the mantra. The fairy tale is that the mantra itself, even if you don’t know what it means, will take you to the full experience of Sat Chit Ananda just because it’s a “magical vibration”. Thinking about the meaning of the mantra while you are doing the mantra is known as Dhayana, or contemplation, and will take you to a deep enough state of meditation to gain the experiences of the attributes of Sat Chit Ananda represented by the mantra, but you have to know what “thinking about the meaning of the mantra means” in order for the process to work. For example, there are four mantras or names of different aspects of spiritual energy that go by the words Vasudeva, Shankarsan, Pradyumna and Anniruddha. You could say these words as many times as you like and you would never gain the full experience of what they mean because just repeating the words would do no more than to help focus your conscious mind and thereby take you to a light state of meditation, which is exactly what the repetition of any word over and over again would do. In order to get any effect from the mantra, you must know not only what the word means, but what the experience would be for each mantra. So, Vasudeva is the infinite all-pervading consciousness. Shankarsan is the creative force of spiritual energy. Pradyumna is Infinite Intelligence, and Anniruddha is infinite joyful emotions. The purpose of doing the mantra is to awaken within you all these aspects of Sat Chit Ananda, or put another way, to bring forth more strongly from within your Self the qualities represented by these beings Why is this? Because any experience you may have of these beings is only bringing forth from within your infinite Self the aspects of your Self which are the experience, in the same way that tasting a peach is only bringing forth from within you that one aspect of your infinite flavorful Self which is the taste of the peach! You experience nothing but your Self! There are an infinite number of eternal infinite beings, and you’re one of them. That’s what it means that there’s no jivas, there’s only an infinite number of Vishnus, and you’re one of them! But from your personal experiential state, since you’re an infinite being, there can’t be anything outside of your Self, greater than your Self or other than your Self, so from your personal perspective, You are the one and only being who exists, and you never experience anything except your Self! You can only gain the experience of any other eternal infinite beings by first gaining the experience of your own eternal infinite Self. So if you think that these are names of beings who are “greater” than you, and that the purpose of doing the mantra is to connect with those beings, just what exactly is it that you’re expecting to get by making the connection, other than some fairy tale story that now they’re going to burn up all your bad karmas so you can go to heaven. Well, whatever it is you’re expecting to get, will only be bringing forth from within your infinite Self the aspects of your Self which are the experience, same as everything else you experience. So what you’re really going for is to experience some aspect of your infinite Self that you’re just not usually used to experiencing, and then hopefully to be able to maintain the experience. So no matter what you do and what you think you’re experiencing, you’re only experiencing your Self, you’re an infinite being, remember?

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 01:45 PM

So, how do you use the mantras to gain all these various experiences. Easy, you just have to know what you’re doing, because to do it you have to be able to get to a deep enough state of meditation known as Theta, wherein you can see vivid imagery with your eyes closed, like you can in dreams, which isn’t all that easy to do unless you know how the process works to do it. You also have to know what “thinking about the meaning of the mantra” means once you’re in the Theta state, which is also easy once you know how to do it. So what are you trying to do if you were to chant our four names of Vasudeva, Shankarsan, Pradyumna and Anniruddha? Well, you’re trying to bring forth from within your Self the qualities and characteristics of the aspects of Sat Chit Ananda which are represented by these names and those beings. So what are those characteristics and qualities, and more importantly, how would you expect to be feeling if you experienced them? What do you expect you’d be experiencing if you experienced Vasudeva, infinite consciousness, or Shankarsan, infinite power, or what do you think the connection to Infinite Intelligence would be like, which is Pradyumna, or the experience of all joyful emotions which is Anniruddha? You first need to put into words, as best you can and in as many words as you possibly can, how you think and expect you would be feeling if you had these experiences, because it is those feelings that you are going for in your meditations. The purpose of all this is to intensify your states of positive emotions, since emotions are the energy of the spirit, and it is the intensity of the emotions that you bring forth that connects you to the dimension of Sat Chit Ananda. The words you come up with that describe those feelings are what you use to think about while you are doing the mantra at the same time. This added dimension of focusing on the attributes and qualities of the mantra is what is necessary to focus the mind to get to a deep enough state of meditation to be able to gain the experiences. You keep repeating the mantra and keep repeating in your mind the words of the emotions of what you want, and ask your Theta Mind to provide you with imaginary images that represent the emotions and state of being you want which are represented by the words. The additional dimension of seeing inner visions will take you into a deep enough state of meditation to actually be able to gain the experiences of the emotions you are going for. The images can be of anything at all that your Theta Mind feels will bring you the state of emotions and the experiences you want, so just go with whatever images just come up, you can always get more. Then all you have to do is to focus on the images, and describe to yourself how the images are making you feel, and the degrees of positive emotional intensity will increase to the point till all the clouds in the sky just float away, and you can experience the beautiful Sunshine, and live happily ever after!

Om Tat Sat

Kenny Rich

8/24/04
8 pm
LA

ChiefCowpie

08-25-2004, 02:00 PM

Ah Chief! I thought as much...ie that you were joking.

I know that the rasa of conjugal love is the highest - but its still Krishna's Divine nature that is behind the attraction of the Gopis - or am I wrong in this?

Hari Om.
in my understanding, yes, Krishna's is no ordinary boy and inseparable from His divinity but in the Super Conscious states of the brijabhasis, theology has been left in the dust and Krishna is experienced in pure love and innocence

BlackBillBlake

08-25-2004, 02:52 PM

That is a fascinating read - thanks Chief Cowpie for posting it.

I'd just like to add a couple of short quotes that pertain to some of the points covered.

'INITIATION IS A FORMALITY. First of all you have to decide whether you will abide by the rules and regulationa and become Krsna Conscious. That is your consideration. You have to decide for yourself whether you are going to take this Krsna Consciousness seriously. That is your descision.INITIATION IS A FORMALITY. If you are serious, THAT IS REAL INITIATION. If you have understood this Krsna philosophy and if you have decided you will take Krsna Consciousness seriously and preach the philosophy to others, that is your initiation. My touch is simply a formality. It is your determination.THAT IS INITIATION.
Srila Prabhupada conversation, 'The Search for the Divine' BTG#49. Quoted in 'Back to Prabhupada' magazine.

And from a different source:
'The perfect faith (shraddha) is an assent of the whole being to the truth seen by it or offered to its acceptance, and its central working is a faith of the soul in its own will to be and attain and become and its idea of self and things and its knowledge, of which the belief of the intellect, the heart's consent and the desire of the life mind to posses and realize are the outward figures'.

Sri Aurobindo 'The Synthesis of Yoga' ch. XVIII.

Hari Om.

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-25-2004, 05:42 PM

BlackBillBlake

08-26-2004, 12:52 AM

I like both these a lot. :) The first one makes me feel better about being a "closet Hare Krishna", as my friend calls it (ei...only telling a few people) ;) and the second one is just plain beautiful. Thank you. Haribol!
:) I think you are wise if you keep it to yourself except where those close to you, and whom you trust are concerned. This is because it's not good just to expose one's belief and so on to constant criticism, or even worse, from those who don't (as yet) understand. Srila Prabhupada mentions somewhere ( I can't recall exactly where off hand) something to the effect that Bhakti is like a tender young shoot or creeper when it first appears. This young shoot is delicate, and like a materiel plant, has to be protected, watered and nourished continually. Then it will grow up until it reaches Krishna's lotus feet. Thats a very nice image I think, and it says it all:) As one develops in the spiritual path (whatever path, if it's genuinely spiritual) so one grows in confidence, but still, it isn't possible always to tell everyone everything!

Shanti.

ChiefCowpie

08-26-2004, 01:10 AM

That is a fascinating read - thanks Chief Cowpie for posting it.
i thought so too... i read it a few times

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-26-2004, 01:57 AM

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif I think you are wise if you keep it to yourself except where those close to you, and whom you trust are concerned. This is because it's not good just to expose one's belief and so on to constant criticism, or even worse, from those who don't (as yet) understand. Srila Prabhupada mentions somewhere ( I can't recall exactly where off hand) something to the effect that Bhakti is like a tender young shoot or creeper when it first appears. This young shoot is delicate, and like a materiel plant, has to be protected, watered and nourished continually. Then it will grow up until it reaches Krishna's lotus feet. Thats a very nice image I think, and it says it allhttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif As one develops in the spiritual path (whatever path, if it's genuinely spiritual) so one grows in confidence, but still, it isn't possible always to tell everyone everything!

Shanti.http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif I do like that analogy a lot http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif It is indeed lovely imagry. Thanks for understanding http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

ChiefCowpie

08-26-2004, 02:08 AM

Bharatiya Vidyabhavan, USA
(Institute of Indian Culture)
proudly presents

Sant Meera

A magnificent Musical Dance Drama depicting the story of Meerabai,
India's outstanding devotional poet-saint of the 16th century,
who sang in ecstasy-

"mere tho Giridhar Gopal
doosar na koyi..."

(Krishna is my only Beloved, no one else)

It is the story of Meerabai's steadfast faith, uncompromising devotion
and total surrender to her Beloved Krishna which made her
transcend the temporal plane and unite with the Lord Himself.

"SANT MIRA" - A Musical Dance Drama
by Shakti Dance Company, Los Angeles
under the direction of Smt. Viji Prakash
who successfully presented the
musical dance drama Bhagavad Gita in August 2003.

Venue: September 18, 2004; 7:00 p.m. at -
ALICE TULLY HALL Lincoln Center, 65th street, Broadway, NYC

source: http://www.bhavanus.com/mira04.htm (http://www.bhavanus.com/mira04.htm)

ChiefCowpie

08-26-2004, 02:16 AM

March 5, 2004 VNN8571

Srila Prabhupada Coming To The Silver Screen

BY EX ORIENTE LUX

USA, Mar 5 (VNN) — HRISIKESH - The Motion Picture of Life Times

The extra-ordinary life story of Srila Prabhupada disciple Hrisikesa dasa is set for the Silver Screen. The 600 page pre-production Script is completed and Asia's Pacific Film Works (20th Century Fox) has given the green light. The 6th Sense director M. Night Shyamalan is under consideration to direct the movie, which will be filmed on location using local production services in California, London, Nepal, India, Thailand, and Bali.

In the movie, tentatively named Hrisikesh, His Divine Grace is a major character. Srila Prabhupada may be played by famous Indian actor, Amrish Puri (who looks very much like Srila Prabhupada). Ben Kingsley may play HDG Srila Bon Maharaj. Josh Hartnett is under consideration to play Hrisikesh. Within two years the movie may be seen on main line cinemas around the globe. Featured in this movie are reincarnation, Krishna consciousness, Srila Prabhupada, Srila Bon Maharaj, Gaudiya Vaishnava Ashram life, Gaudiya siddhanta (mostly question and answer), the subplot of tug-of-war between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bon Maharaj is also a feature. It is also a Rock 'n' Roll movie about The Misunderstood, it is a fugitive - escape movie, it is a culture shock movie, it is a war movie, and it is a thriller!

First he gets murdered, then his adventure begins: This movie begins in 1947 with Hrisikesh as an 80 year old sadhu getting shot during partition riots and then reborn in America as Richard Shaw-Brown. It features Hrisikesh as a rock 'n' roll star fugitive meeting devotees in San Francisco (1967) and becoming a disciple of Srila Prabhupada; it also features the philosophy of Lord Chaitanya, and the early days of the Hare Krishna Movement, also featured will be Vrindavan, and Mount Govardhan, and Varshana, and Nandagram, and Jaipur, and Karoli, and Delhi, and Bombay, and swinging 60s London, the extraordinarily great band, The Misunderstood, and it's unfair plight and super music, and exotic Bali; also the VN draft and Boot Camp (with Uncle Sam demonized as the Devil and Vietnam war as hell), state of the art technology will be used to create FX reincarnation scenes that will be a roller-coaster ride for the viewers, Shyamasundar & Mukunda Maharaj are chief characters, as is Srila Krishna Das Babaji; it is also a Katmandu movie, a 1967 Summer of Love hippy movie, and an ANTI-WAR MOVIE! It is a story of East meets West.

To read a synopsis click http://www.hrisikesh.net/Synopsis.htm (http://www.hrisikesh.net/Synopsis.htm) Richard Shaw Brown, who co-wrote the screenplay, will be a consultant in several countries to help with the story boards and other details of costumes, procedures, etc.

This is a 1st for Srila Prabhupada himself to be featured in a big budget Hollywood movie. And on the pretext of telling Hrisikesa's story, Lord Krishna's philosophy is revealed. Password holders are welcome to download the entire script as a pdf.file before it goes beyond pre-production and a line producer breaks it up into lighting script, cameras script, sets script, costumes script, above and below the line actors scripts, make up script, locations script, etc. This film should be a BIG boost for Gaudiya Vaishnavism, and help make Srila Prabhupada much more famous. Just as Mel Gibsons's Passion is reviving so much interest in Christ, so hrisikesh can create a global revival of Srila Prabhupada and Gaudiya Siddhanta.

For more information visit the official site at http://www.hrisikesh.net (http://www.hrisikesh.net/)

ChiefCowpie

08-26-2004, 02:39 AM

"Even though there are many worthy sages like Vyasadeva available to us, they will recognize us, and thinking that we are omniscient will be reluctant to teach us. This is because they are Vaishnavas and therefore know the truth of things related to Vishnu. However, we absolutely must engage in our studies, because to not do so would be a transgression and that would set a bad example leading to inauspiciousness. Therefore, we should approach a guru who is fully knowledgeable in the scriptures (zabde brahmaNi niSNAtam) but is a Shaiva. There is one such sage, Sandipani Muni, who was born in Kashi and comes to Prabhasa Kshetra from time to time. He is living happily in Avanti now, near his beloved Shiva. Let us go there...

http://srimadbhagavatam.org/images/krishna/sandipani.jpg

ChiefCowpie

08-26-2004, 03:00 AM

http://www.science-frontiers.com/rainbow.gif (http://www.science-frontiers.com/index.htm)Science Frontiers
ONLINE

No. 94: Jul-Aug 1994 Issue Contents (http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf094/index.htm)

Other pages

Home Page (http://www.science-frontiers.com/index.htm)

Science Frontiers Online

All Issues (http://www.science-frontiers.com/sfonline.htm)
This Issue (http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf094/index.htm)

Sourcebook Project (http://www.science-frontiers.com/sourcebk.htm)

Sourcebook Subjects (http://www.science-frontiers.com/catalog.htm)

http://www.science-frontiers.com/corner.gif THE INCORRUPTIBILITY OF THE GANGES

The Ganges is 2525 kilometers long. Along its course, 27 major towns dump 902 million liters of sewage into it each day. Added to this are all those human bodies consigned to this holy river, called the Ganga by the Indians. Despite this heavy burden of pollutants, the Ganges has for millennia been regarded as incorruptible. How can this be?

Several foreigners have recorded the effects of this river's "magical" cleansing properties:

Ganges water does not putrefy, even after long periods of storage. River water begins to putrefy when lack of oxygen promotes the growth of anaerobic bacteria, which produce the tell-tale smell of stale water.

British physician, C.E. Nelson, observed that Ganga water taken from the Hooghly -- one of its dirtiest mouths -- by ships returning to England remained fresh throughout the voyage.

In 1896, the British physician E. Hanbury Hankin reported in the French journal Annales de l'Institut Pasteur that cholera microbes died within three hours in Ganga water, but continued to thrive in distilled water even after 48 hours.

A French scientist, Monsieur Herelle, was amazed to find "that only a few feet below the bodies of persons floating in the Ganga who had died of dysentery and cholera, where one would expect millions of germs, there were no germs at all.

More recently, D.S. Bhargava, an Indian environmental engineer measured the Ganges' remarkable self-cleansing properties:

"Bhargava's calculations, taken from an exhaustive three-year study of the Ganga, show that it is able to reduce BOD levels much faster than in other rivers."

Quantitatively, the Ganges seems to clean up suspended wastes 15 to 20 times faster than other rivers.

(Kalshian, Rakesh; "Ganges Has Magical Cleaning Properties," Geographic, 66:5, April 1994.)

[b]From Science Frontiers #94, JUL-AUG 1994 (http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf094/index.htm). © 1994-2000 William R. Corliss

sleeping jiva

08-26-2004, 03:27 AM

BBB: Yeah. I agree with u. But this is the problem, we should not rely upon our interpretations. Bhagavadgita by Srila Prabhupada and his 50 books gives us everything to know. What is that? To love Krishna unconditionally, without reason. This is what I'm saying, of course u need to develop knowledge, but this knowledge should be used in getting to the platform of love to Krishna.

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-26-2004, 03:34 AM

In honour of us reaching 800 posts... (Wow...)... a very very beautiful picture that was just shared with me:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/SvgGrdnBeauty/Krishna4.jpg

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare! :) :) :)

PhotoGra1

08-26-2004, 04:26 AM

whoa. I'm not a liar and i have not a single regret. I don't believe in regrets, what a strange use of energy, living in the past instead of living in the now. Every single thing, big or small, trivial or no, embarassing or painful or otherwise, its all made me the person i am right this second. And i am glad of that. I learn from everything i do, though.

I felt the same way at 16, and I am not that much older. Unfortunately, I think regret is a universal part of the human experience.

You get over it, though...and still learn from it, etc.

ChiefCowpie

08-26-2004, 03:22 PM

Kouros Helios (Krishna) and Rhoda (Radha) on Rhodes
<H3 align=center>by Bhakti Ananda Goswami

gdkumar

08-26-2004, 07:46 PM

Hare Krishna!

Was out of town for a few days. Running temperature for quite some time now.

Read all those beautiful posts from all, particularly from BlackBillBlake, ChiefCowPie,SleepingJiva,SvgGrdnBeauty and Jesus.That piece of advice from BlackBillBlake to SvgGrdnBeauty is wonderful. And those beautiful photographs are simply entrancing.

Thank you all. May God bless all of us with His divine light.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-27-2004, 12:10 AM

Oh Kumar...I hope you feel much better soon!

Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

08-27-2004, 01:33 AM

Hare Krishna!

Was out of town for a few days. Running temperature for quite some time now.

Read all those beautiful posts from all, particularly from BlackBillBlake, ChiefCowPie,SleepingJiva,SvgGrdnBeauty and Jesus.That piece of advice from BlackBillBlake to SvgGrdnBeauty is wonderful. And those beautiful photographs are simply entrancing.

Thank you all. May God bless all of us with his divine light.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.
Thanks Kumar - and may God bless you with a speedy recovery:)

Om Shanti.

BlackBillBlake

08-27-2004, 01:58 AM

I felt the same way at 16, and I am not that much older. Unfortunately, I think regret is a universal part of the human experience.

You get over it, though...and still learn from it, etc.On the path of yoga though, there are no regrets! Krishna tells Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita that no step is ever wasted or in vain on this path, and even just a little of it can bring enourmous benefit!

Here's a short quote from the Gita

Chapter 6. Sankhya-yogaTEXT 40

TRANSLATION
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifThe Blessed Lord said: Son of Prtha, a transcendentalist engaged in auspicious activities does not meet with destruction either in this world or in the spiritual world; one who does good, My friend, is never overcome by evil.

TEXT 41

TRANSLATION
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifThe unsuccessful yogi, after many, many years of enjoyment on the planets of the pious living entities, is born into a family of righteous people, or into a family of rich aristocracy.

TEXT 42

TRANSLATION
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifOr he takes his birth in a family of transcendentalists who are surely great in wisdom. Verily, such a birth is rare in this world.

TEXT 43

TRANSLATION
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifOn taking such a birth, he again revives the divine consciousness of his previous life, and he tries to make further progress in order to achieve complete success, O son of Kuru.

TEXT 44

TRANSLATION
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifBy virtue of the divine consciousness of his previous life, he automatically becomes attracted to the yogic principles--even without seeking them. Such an inquisitive transcendentalist, striving for yoga, stands always above the ritualistic principles of the scriptures.

TEXT 45

TRANSLATION
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifBut when the yogi engages himself with sincere endeavor in making further progress, being washed of all contaminations, then ultimately, after many, many births of practice, he attains the supreme goal.

TEXT 46

TRANSLATION
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifA yogi is greater than the ascetic, greater than the empiricist and greater than the fruitive worker. Therefore, O Arjuna, in all circumstances, be a yogi.

TEXT 47

TRANSLATION
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifAnd of all yogis, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service, is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all.

Hare Krishna!

sleeping jiva

08-27-2004, 03:19 AM

very true, bill :) thanks

I hope gdkumar will get better soon. Or better said let him be healthy right away :)

gdkumar

08-27-2004, 05:59 PM

Hare Krishna!

My dear Lord Krishna and His love is everywhere in so many forms and in so many ways ! Thank you all for the kind and compassionate words. Jiva, brother, your words touched my Gopal, deep inside my heart, and made me cry.

My body is ill but I am in bliss after reading the following :

"Nabhinandeta maranam nabhinandeta jivanam
Kalam eva pratiksheta nidesham bhritako yatha."

Dark death nor life I hymn, but wait
Like Time upon His guidance still
I bow to what He would dictate,
Like servants doing their masters' will.

(From The Mahabharata, Shanti Parva.)

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar

PhotoGra1

08-27-2004, 11:37 PM

BlackBillBlake

08-28-2004, 12:42 AM

I own and have read the 'gita.

I still think that to have no regret, you are denying the existence of regret.
That doesn't mean that there was no benefit, or learning.

Good people do most of the horrible things in this world. There is only a handful of true monsters. To deny regret is, in my opinion, to deny being human.

That being said, I don't consider myself educated about Hare Krishna, the Bhag....ita, or religion in general.I'm not saying that there are no regrets in this world. In the ordinary course of life, I'm sure everyone has cause some cause for regret! That is the nature of life here. There are many things going on all the time over which we have no control, and to see for example, pointless and preventable suffering of others is cause enough in itself to cause the sensitive person to feel regret even dismay!
But according to the Vedic literature if we look more deeply into things we see that everybody here is subject to certain intrinsic causes of suffering - birth, death, diseise and old age. Nobody wants to become old, but even so, one will be forced by the materiel nature to grow old and eventually die. At that time, ie the hour of death a person who has spent their life only in the pursuit of materiel goals - wealth, reputation, worldly knowledge, sensual enjoyment - may have cause for regret. Everbody in this world is subject to these conditions of materiel natue. So the question is: in a world of suffering and misery, can there be a path to true and lasting happiness?
The Vedic literature says we suffer here because of our false consciousness, based on the ego, and our lack of consciousness of God, the source of our being. If we want happiness we have to try to recover our original consciousness of who we are, what and who God is, and what is our relation to Him. The proceseses that exist to enable us to do this are known as yoga. There are different paths of yoga, but in this age, the best and easiest path is said to be Bhakti, or love of God. This is all explained in the Gita and other Vedic literatures.
The point is though, that activities undertaken for this end, yogic activity, that is, are not on the same level as ordinary action. Ordinarily, action leads to entanglement in the materiel nature. A person only acts because he wants some result, some fruit of action. Such a person is known as a karmi -one busy creating karma. Such fruits, Sri Krishna tells us, are temporary and limited. But if we act in Krishna Consciousness, trying sincerely to please Him and serve Him and His devotees, there is no karma, and so we gradually become liberated from our bondage to materiel nature. There can be no regret on this path because each step is a step towards God, towards freedom, bliss and knowledge. And a happiness not dependent on the trinkets of the world, but the uncovering of the true blissful nature of the self and our love of Krishna. And the results of yoga are permanent. Even with the end of this body, this consciousness will go on -

I hope that helps, but if you want to know about Krishna Consciousness, please read Srila Prabhupada's book's!

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-28-2004, 01:37 AM

I have a question. Yesterday I bought this very spiffy mounted leaf with a picture of Krishna and Radhe painted on it at a flea market (my mom has no clue what it is but let me buy it because I liked it so much...but that's not important now) and I was telling my friend about it and she told me this:

"having pictures of deities (Radha-Krishna) in your room is probably not the best thing unless it has a cover over it. you should not be naked or doing anything lewd (great word) before those pictures. all my pictures are kept in the dining room...it is an offense to mistreat deities even if they are in picture form.

just thought you should know."

I don't get changed in my room anyway...but regardless of that, I really can't put it anywhere else. Also, I love it too much to have it anywhere else but my room...I stay in here more than anywhere else in the house because I do my work in here and my house is often too loud for my liking...

So, is it really a problem that I keep the picture in my room? I don't want to do anything wrong....

ChiefCowpie

08-28-2004, 03:42 AM

So, is it really a problem that I keep the picture in my room? I don't want to do anything wrong....this etiquette of not appearing naked before Krishna is more reserved for a Diety that one offers puja (worship) to...fill your room up with Krishna

many devotees due to not making big effort to have big incomes live in small living space...i.e., one room apartments and they fill their living quarters to the ceilings with books, pictures, posters and all the devotional paraphernalia one could imagine and so certainly for them, nudity is unavoidable in front of these forms of Krishna...plus too, does one think Krishna does not see all and is not aware of what your penis or vagina looks like? even without your trying to show God your genitals, He is seeing your genitals... God is all seeing

only make distinction when you enter into Diety worship that this is different as one is feeding and dressing the Lord...much more personal

and too, doing something "wrong" is more in the realm of doing something with malice, spite or hate against something or someone... if you innocently breach some etiquette, it is not so much big offense... what is the intent of your heart? that is what is important... to love

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-28-2004, 03:59 AM

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-28-2004, 04:34 AM

Oh...btw...this is what the picture looks like...its a bit dark because of the scanner though :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/SvgGrdnBeauty/krpic.jpg

ChiefCowpie

08-28-2004, 04:55 AM

very beautiful and also i believe it to be a leaf from a Pipal Tree but am not sure... perhaps gkumar might know as he might be more familar with trees of india

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-28-2004, 04:59 AM

That's very possible. The man told me that it was made in India...and I've never seen a leaf like that that I can remember...

ChiefCowpie

08-28-2004, 01:57 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-11-1083941836.jpg
Bata Krishna on a leaf

BlackBillBlake

08-28-2004, 03:36 PM

Thank you so much...I feel a bit more easy about having that there... Just when she said it to me she freaked me out...but what you said makes a lot more sense to me and was along the lines of what I was thinking...but I tend to freak out sometimes...

Thank you so much again CheifCowPie http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gifWords of wisdom from Chief Cowpie!

I'm sure the reason you were worried is because you're trying to pleases Krishnahttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif What the Chief says is about right, IMHO.

I'm going away for a few days to 'Earth Spirit' - before I go, here's a not very good poem I wrote one dark winter's day about two years ago - I thought it would be better here than the poetry forum. Hope anyway that it expresses something.........

A man approached me in the street –
Handed me a book
Asked me for a buck.
It was cold in the street while he explained –
His hands shook
I took the book
I took some inscense too.
The book was about Sri Krishna
And our home in the spiritual sky
And how we can go there to be with Him
Even before the body dies.
It said
Hare Krishna
Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna
Hare Hare
Hare Rama
Hare Rama
Rama Rama
Hare Hare!
Jai Jai Radhe Radhe!
Jai Jai Govinda.!

You may think me a brainwashed fool!
You may think me a little mad!
But in the book he gave me
It says Om Tat Sat!

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-28-2004, 04:13 PM

I like your poem very very much. :) :) Have fun on your trip! :)

gdkumar

08-28-2004, 04:56 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear ChiefCowPie and SvgGrdnBeauty,

Thank you for the wonderful photographs and for another gem of an example of ChiefCowPie's insight.

That is undoubtedly a Pipal tree leaf. In Sanskrit and Bengali it is known as Ashwattha tree.

There is mention of this tree in the Gita(Bibhuti yoga, chapter -10, shloka-26) where Lord Krishna says, "Amongst the trees I am the Ashwattha."

You can take the mature leaves from this tree and put them in water for about fifteen days. After that if you remove them and gently rub the surfaces then all the green parts will come out leaving only the veins. Then let them dry up - it will be ready for any painting job.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

gdkumar

08-28-2004, 05:17 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear BlackBillBlake,

That's a beautiful poem, thank you. I have a vague idea and do not exactly know what 'Earth Spirit' is. Wish,you enjoy all the moments. If you can not keep in touch I will greatly miss you.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-28-2004, 05:57 PM

I thought this was very cute and worth sharing:

MISSING PERSON REPORT (By Srestha dasa)

Name: Sri Krsna

Job Description: Adolescent God of Love,

Characteristics:
1) emits waves of pure love
2) emits a self-effulgent golden glow (brahmajyoti)
3) is a dark blue spiritual color (like raincloud)
4) has a tendency to hang out with cowherd boys and cowherd girls
5) herds cows for His father - Nanda Maharaja
6) plays a golden flute and wears peacock feathers in His hair.
7) is very charming and sweet

Last Seen: approx. 5,000 years ago.

Note: This is probably the single most outstanding Missing Person Report in history.

If anyone has any information concerning this missing person please e-Mail me immediately. His parents are frantic. The gopis are pining away. The cowherds boys are stunned with grief. The cows have stopped giving milk. The entire world appears like a corpse in His absence.


~~~


MISSING PERSON FOUND

To whom it may concern. This naughty boy, has been found hiding, in the inner most chamber of the HEARTS OF ALL. Not wanting to be revealed to those who are envious, He hid behind a thick curtain of illusion. But when He heard the bell, of His devotee, ringing, and smelled the fresh aroma of Tulasi leaves, and saw that the offering of flowers , fruits and water, were saturated with simple affection and love, OUT HE CAME.

Such a rascal........He had us all worried to death.

gdkumar

08-28-2004, 06:49 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear SavingGardenBeauty,

That is wonderful! Thanks to Shreshtha Dasa and you.

All glory to the naughty little Lord, it is nice to see you slowly, subtly and surely getting drowned in Divine thoughts over Him.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-30-2004, 06:08 AM

"Atlanta"

One of the nice things about traveling with the Radha Damodara traveling sankirtan party was that whenever Srila Prabhupada was in America we would go to see him. One of the memorable times was in Atlanta on and around Sri Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati's appearance day. Srila Prabhupada praised the devotees when he first came to the temple for starting the temple without his help and doing it so nicely. On Bhaktisidhanta's ap. day Srila Prabhupada spoke with great emotion. The love he had for his guru maharaja was evident to all of us.
One devotee asked Srila Prabhupada what pleased him the most and Srila Prabhupada responded that "if you develope your love for Krishna that will please me the most". All of the devotees enjoyed that answer.
WE, the RDTSP, all got to go see Srila Prabhupada in his room. We were introduced one by one until all 80+ -were in. Srila Prabhupada told us that if we remain brahmacharies we would go back to Godhead but if we got married it would be reduced to a 50% chance. I think 90% of us got married.
Since it is Bhaktisidhanta's festival today I thought I would contribute this story. All glories to our glorious sampradaya of great spiritual masters. Bhaktisidhanta is a great jewel, a ray of Vishnu. He is an example that we can all look up to and gain some inspiration.

http://members.aol.com/gauridas/spusa.htm

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-31-2004, 01:28 AM

http://www.iskcon.com/galleries/sb1/2/gallery_Bg11.jpg

Krishna and the Gopis on the Yamunda

gdkumar

08-31-2004, 01:40 AM

Hare Krishna!

It is beautiful ! Thank you.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

GanjaPrince

08-31-2004, 03:31 AM

you got to love Krishna's sense of humor, because the cosmic laughs wipe away all doubts, and you realize that you were never really gone, you were always here and now.

sleeping jiva

08-31-2004, 05:02 AM

oh yeah! Very nice said. Finally! Laughter is sacred. Check out all those people in the morning subway or bus. They need some laughter, which puts them to their knees. I feel that we've met before Ganja Prince. :) rn't u LookingFromSomewheredistant ? Lol.

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-31-2004, 07:28 AM

Some humour from my dear friend Prtha Devi Dasi (http://www.geocities.com/priitaa108/humor.htm (http://www.geocities.com/priitaa108/humor.htm) )...she also brought me to that Missing Person thing above…

Disciple: "Master, why did Bodhidharma come from the West?"
Master: "Ask that post over there."
Disciple: "I don't understand"
Master: "Neither do I."

--------

Sherlock Holmes and Watson were on a camping trip. They were lying in bed, looking up at the sky. Holmes said, "Watson, what do you see?"

"Well, I see thousands of stars."

"And what does that mean to you?"

"I suppose, Holmes, it means that of all the planets and suns and moons in the universe, that we are truly the one most blessed with the reason to deduce theorems to make our way in this world of criminal enterprises and blind greed. It means that we are truly small in the eyes of God but struggle each day to be worthy of the senses and spirit we have been blessed with. And, I suppose, at the very least, in the meteorological sense, it means that it is most likely that we will have another nice day tomorrow. What does it mean to you, Holmes?"

"To me, Watson, it means someone has stolen our tent."

"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control." Inscription on 6,000 year-old Egyptian tomb.

The answers are already within each of us.

Good luck matching them with the corresponding questions

A Zen Buddhist goes up to an ice cream Sunday stand and tells the vendor, "Make me one with everything." Then he gives the vendor a $20 bill and asks for his change.

The vendor then reminds the Buddhist, "Change comes from within."

---------------------

Did you hear about a meditating Hindu who visited the dentist for a root canal and requested no Novacaine?

Asked "why" by a startled doctor, he explained he wanted "transcend-dental medication."

How many yogis does it take to change a light bulb?

None. Yogis find the light within

Devotee Light Bulb Joke -

Q) How many devotees does it take to put in a light bulb?

A) "That's not my service prabhu."

Q: How do you make Krishna (God) laugh?

A: Tell him your plans

Little Susie was running late as she rushed to get dressed for Sunday school at the temple.

She whispered a prayer, "My dear Lord Krishna, please don't let me be late for Sunday school today." She finally got dressed and began the brisk walk to the church.

She tripped and fell rumpling her dress, got up and was on her way. Then stumbled on the back-track and skinned her knee. She jumped up hurrying on her way. Just before reaching the temple, she tumbled over a stick and scraped her elbow. She reach the temple's Sunday school on time.

As she climbed the steps, she remembered to give a prayer of thanks. "My dear Lord Krishna, thank you for getting me to Sunday school on time,

................ but You didn't have to push me."

Billboards:

"That love thy neighbor thing? I really meant that." - Signed, God

"Due to current economic difficulties the light at the end of the tunnel will be shut off until further notice."

"Smoke. Because no one should infringe upon your right to cough up black phlegm."

--------

'You were created in the image of God!'
START ACTING LIKE IT!!

On a highway billboard: "Keep using my name in vain and I will make rush hour longer" - Signed, God."

The Ten Commandments are NOT multiple choice!" – God

"What part of 'Thou shalt not,' is it that you don't get?" Signed, God

"My way IS the highway." –God

From Bumper Stickers:

"I don't question YOUR existence." ~ God

"I found Krishna (God). He was hiding in my heart."

"God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts."

If Jesus does come back,
He's going to the Hare Krishna temples

Commit random acts of kindness and create senseless beauty!

SvgGrdnBeauty

08-31-2004, 07:29 AM

A passenger in a taxi tapped the driver on the shoulder to ask him something. The driver screamed, lost control of the cab, nearly hit a bus, drove up over the curb, and stopped just inches from a large plate glass window.

For a few moments everything was silent in the cab, then the driver said, "please, don't ever do that again. You scared the daylights out of me."

The passenger, who was also frightened, apologized and said he didn't realize that a tap on the shoulder could frighten him so much.

The driver next replied, "I'm sorry, it's really not your fault at all Today is my first day driving a cab. I have been driving a hearse for the last 25 years!

Things Found Only in America
*Only in America......can a pizza get to your house faster than an ambulance.
* Only in America......are there handicap parking places in front of a skating rink.

* Only in America......do drugstores make the sick walk all the way to the back of the store to get their prescriptions while healthy people can buy cigarettes at the front

* Only in America......do banks leave both doors to the vault open and then chain the pens to the counters.

* Only in America......do we use answering machines to screen calls and then have call waiting so we won't miss a call from someone we didn't want to talk to in the first place.

* Only in America......do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.

* Only in America......do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille lettering.

Where God Ain't"

He was just a little boy, on a week's first day.
He was wandering home from Sunday School, and dawdling on the way.
He scuffed his shoes into the grass; he found a caterpillar.
He found a fluffy milkweed pod, and blew out all the "filler."
A bird's nest in a tree overhead, so wisely placed on high.
Was just another wonder that caught his eager eye.
A neighbor watched his zig zag course, and hailed him from the lawn;
Asked him where he'd been that day and what was going on.
"I've been to Bible School," he said and turned a piece of sod.
He picked up a wiggly worm replying, "I've learned a lot of God."
"M'm very fine way," the neighbor said, "for a boy to spend his time."
"If you'll tell me where God is, I'll give you a brand new dime."
Quick as a flash the answer came! Nor were his accents faint.
"I'll give you a dollar, Mister, if you can tell me where God ain't."

This is what is meant by becoming the dog of the Spiritual Master... and the dog of Krsna. :-)

A sick man turned to his doctor as he was preparing to leave the
examination room and said, "Doctor, I am afraid to die. Tell me what
lies on the other side."
Very quietly, the doctor said, "I don't know."
"You don't know? You, a Christian man, do not know what is on the other side?"
The doctor was holding the handle of the door; on the other side came a sound of scratching and whining, and as he opened the door, a dog sprang into the room and leaped on him with an eager show of gladness.
Turning to the patient, the doctor said, "Did you notice my dog?
He's never been in this room before. He didn't know what was inside.
He knew nothing except that his master was here, and when the door
opened, he sprang in without fear.
I know little of what is on the other side of death, but I do know one
thing..... I know my Master is there and that is enough."

Q: Why don't yogis vacuum in the corners?
A: Because they have no attachments. ~ Albert Einstein

A married couple had two little boys, ages 8 and 10, who were excessively mischievous. They were always getting into trouble. Their parents knew that if any mischief occurred in their village, their sons were probably involved.

The boys' mother heard that a pundit in town had been successful in disciplining children, so she asked if he would speak with her sons. The pundit agreed, but asked to see them separately. So, the mother sent her eight-year-old first, in the morning.

The pundit, a huge man with a booming voice, sat the boy down and asked him sternly, "Where is God?" The boy's mouth dropped open, but he made no response. So the pundit repeated the question in an even sterner tone, "Where is God!!?" Again the wide-eyed boy made no attempt to answer. The pundit raised his voice and bellowed, "WHERE IS GOD!?" The boy screamed and bolted from the room, ran directly home and dove into a closet, slamming the door behind him.

When his older brother found him hiding, he asked, "What happened?" The younger brother, gasping for breath, replied, "We are in BIG trouble this time, dude. God is missing, and they think WE did it!"

When Lord Rama wanted to test Sita for her chastity, he told Laksmana to build the funeral pyre. Laksmana did not like this at all, but Rama insisted. He was, after all, the older brother. So Laksmana said, "Oh, alright! But I will never appear as your younger brother again!" (hehe) And He didn't. His next appearance was as Lord Balarama, the OLDER brother of Lord Krishna. :-)

GanjaPrince

08-31-2004, 05:46 PM

yeah, it's me, got this new account when the forums switched.

wishing you love, peace, happiness and endless laughter

sleeping jiva

08-31-2004, 06:48 PM

oh cool! We were looking for u with gdkumar in the first posts of this thread. I wish u the same :) drop by sometimes to discuss -you're a cool guy& it would be pleasure for everybody here. haribol!

ChiefCowpie

08-31-2004, 11:23 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear BlackBillBlake,
...

I have a vague idea and do not exactly know what 'Earth Spirit' is. i don't know what it is either but it sounds pretty good

gdkumar

09-01-2004, 08:58 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

All your last posts are really interesting, it relieves one to some extent from the stresses of daily practical life routines. I liked all of them. Thank you.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

ChiefCowpie

09-01-2004, 09:02 PM

A married couple had two little boys, ages 8 and 10, who were excessively mischievous. They were always getting into trouble. Their parents knew that if any mischief occurred in their village, their sons were probably involved.

The boys' mother heard that a pundit in town had been successful in disciplining children, so she asked if he would speak with her sons. The pundit agreed, but asked to see them separately. So, the mother sent her eight-year-old first, in the morning.

The pundit, a huge man with a booming voice, sat the boy down and asked him sternly, "Where is God?" The boy's mouth dropped open, but he made no response. So the pundit repeated the question in an even sterner tone, "Where is God!!?" Again the wide-eyed boy made no attempt to answer. The pundit raised his voice and bellowed, "WHERE IS GOD!?" The boy screamed and bolted from the room, ran directly home and dove into a closet, slamming the door behind him.

When his older brother found him hiding, he asked, "What happened?" The younger brother, gasping for breath, replied, "We are in BIG trouble this time, dude. God is missing, and they think WE did it!"

hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

gdkumar

09-01-2004, 09:10 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear GanjaPrince,

Welcome to this thread. I am, like SleepingJiva, so happy to have you here. Yes, we waited eagerly so long for you. We would most appreciate to have your valuable views in the coming pages. We would love to share the 'ananda' from your realization of the Satchidananda.

However, I would like to frankly and sincerely tell you that I am bit depressed with your new name. I am afraid it does not suit you at all. I am sorry, please do not misunderstand me.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

gdkumar

09-01-2004, 09:19 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear ChiefCowpie,

Thank you for your comments. Yes, it sounds quite good.
It is always nice to hear anything from you. It always makes me feel good that you are around. Thakur used to often say that when somebody causes 'Bhav' in you, it is to be understood that God is in him in a special way(In consciousness).

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

gdkumar

09-01-2004, 09:42 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear SleepingJiva,

It was a day for me to go back to the first page when you had initiated this epic-thread.

It was wonderful reading all over again to some extent(Just a few pages) and what a wonderful feeling it was! So many of us got into this thread giving us everything..... sentiments, child-like squabbles, innocent quarrels, towering knowledge and introspections, child's innocence, healthy jokes.......everything.........but it all lead to one thing only..... that is the words of love. We all countered but we all said, in some way or other, we love Him.

It was a blissful nostalgia.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

sleeping jiva

09-02-2004, 01:21 AM

yeah, great :) Let's love Krishna and He will take care of everything. Thanks gdkumar :) hope u feeling better ( do u?)

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-02-2004, 03:11 AM

ChiefCowPie and gdkumar...

Glad you liked the jokes :) :)

Kumar, I know what you mean...I did that the other day. I just was bored and felt like it...its amazing how long this thread has been going. :)

Hare Krishna! :)

BlackBillBlake

09-02-2004, 03:54 PM

Dear Freinds - Sleeping Jiva, Chief Cowpie, GD Kumar, Svg Gdn Beauty, Ganja Prince & others - Glad to see how this thread has grown while I've been away!

In answer to questions about Earth Spirit - it's a small festival, at which I've been working for a few days setting up a marquee and sound system (the Floating Lotus). This year, not so well organized as on previous occaisions - but still ok, although I'm glad to be back.
Going there has once again highlighted my concern over some members of the young generation - many seem lost in materialism, negative drugs (ecstacy, cocaine, alchohol and worse) and have little interest in any spiritual topic. Trying to spread any kind of spiritual message is not easy, but there is a very great need for this. To this end, I have decided to try to get together a small group in readiness for next summer to attend such events and perform Kirtan and Bhajan, and perhaps distribute some Prasada and books. Anyone in the UK interested? PM me.
Anyway - I'm very tired at present, so I'll leave it there for now.

Hare Krishna! Shanti! Om!

gdkumar

09-02-2004, 10:23 PM

ChiefCowpie

09-02-2004, 11:33 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/~malati/kasvit/kunda_-_jasmine.jpg

Kunda
jasmin - jasminum multiflorum

"One night when the moon was fully bloomed in the sky, Ramacandra suddenly burst into laughter. Draupadi Ishwari was astonished by his outburst and asked her husband what had caused the outburst. Acarya explained that Sri Radhika and Krishna along with their confidantes had been plucking flowers in the garden. Sri Radha was plucking white kunda flowers which were as white as moonlight, whereas Krsna was trying to pluck the moonlight which He had mistaken for kunda flowers. Observing Krishna's mistake, the confidantes of Radha began to laugh, which also caused Ramacandra to laugh along with them. Sri Ishwari was so bewildered by this explanation that she was unable to speak."

(Bhakti Ratnakara - chapter 14)

ChiefCowpie

09-02-2004, 11:36 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/~malati/linnut/chakravaka_-_duck_-_casarca_ferruginea.jpg

Chakravaka
ruddy goose/brahmani duck - anas casarca

"Your eyes are like two charming fishes swimming in the ocean of nectar. Your breasts are like two cakravaka birds in the lake of nectar. Your face is like a golden lotus blossoming in the celestial Ganga. O Radha, may the many glories of the waves of Your mercy splash against me."

(Radha-rasa-sudha-nidhi, 91)

ChiefCowpie

09-02-2004, 11:37 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/~malati/kasvit/kadamba_-_anthocephalus-indicus.jpg

kadamba
anthocephalus indicus

"Radharani to Lalita: why has the kadamba flower in Hari's hair become cupid's weapon and attacked Me? Why has Sri Krishna's peacock-feather crown become cupid himself and wounded My heart?"

(Ujjvala-nilamani, ch. 10)

"O Lord whose complexion mocks the splendour of blue lotus flowers, O Lord whose eyes are like two restless khanjana birds, O Lord who kisses the young gopis, O Lord who wears a kadamba flower in Your moving locks of hair, O Lord who, surrounded in the auspicious place of flowering vines by beautiful gopis restless wit love as they play love songs on vinas, jokingly plays the notes of mullara raga on Your flute, please make my eyes blossom wide open with the charming lightning flash of Your pastimes."

(Govinda-viduravali, 31)

ChiefCowpie

09-02-2004, 11:43 PM

lalita lavaGga latA parizIlana komala malaya samIre
madhukara nikara karambita kokila kUjita kuJja kuTIre ..
viharati harir iha sarasa vasante
nRtyati yuvati janena samaM sakhi virahijanasya durante

- Spring Song of Gita Govindam

The southern breeze
is softened by the enchanting
clove-scented vines
and the woodland hut is tuned
by the blended song of the humming honey-bees
and the cooing of the Kokilas^.

The parted ache, dear friend,
while in this delicious Spring
Krishna* dances with the youthful girls-
sporting, loving.

-------------

Kokila,the Indian Cuckoo. Its cry is said to represent the
perfect fifth of the Indian octave. the bird is associated with
Spring-time and love.

* In the original poem, Krishna is addressed here by his name
Hari, the remover of pain.

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-45-1092304318.jpg

ChiefCowpie

09-02-2004, 11:45 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/~malati/kasvit/asoka1.jpg

Ashoka
saraca indica

"Searching for Radharani in the forest, Krishna considers: I think moon-faced Radha may have entered this grove of asoka trees with a desire to enjoy transcendental pastimes here. If this were not so, then how, when it is not the proper season, could the bumble bees proclaim the glories of the fragrant asoka flower, if Radha has not touched them with Her feet."

(Ujjvala-nilamani, ch 16)

ChiefCowpie

09-02-2004, 11:47 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/~malati/kasvit/champaka3.jpg

Champaka
magnolia - michelia champaka

"Please worship this girl (Radha), who is the goddess of the nectar of sweet transcendental love. She has enchanted the entire world, and Her complexion, as golden as a campaka flower, has given a golden hue to this forest of Vrndavana."

(Sri Sangita-madhava, ch 1)

ChiefCowpie

09-02-2004, 11:51 PM

Hope everyone is enjoying the plants and animals of Brindaban that are intimately woven into the Radha and Krishna lila. This series was researched and compiled by a Malatilata and is from a Gaudiya Vaisnava site I visit.

Enjoy...its pretty hard not to...they are so beautiful

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-03-2004, 12:21 AM

Hare Krishna!

Dear BlackBillBlake,

Thank you so much for your post. I am so happy to hear from you again.

I can feel your genuine pain from your post. I also so much think like you about the present young generation. I can not recognize them at all. Suppose, it is our-the parents'- faults that we failed to bring them up properly. Our never ending material hankering and consequent frustration has so clearly got transmitted into them. I also think that today's girls can only change the situation for betterment. We always to a large extent kept the girls away from spiritual practices and developments. If and only if the girls get to know about their true selves then the picture may change. They must somehow realize that they are the mothers of all creations and then they will certainly realize the pain of seeing anybody on the wrong path. Anyway, it is all part of the Divine Lila and we must understand that. Everybody and everything is some way or other serving His purposes only.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.
Dear Kumar,

It would be nice to hope that too. :)

Girls, to the Western world, and possibly elsewhere, are the biggest target of persuasion. I would love to say that I know most girls around me that are tuned to spirituality, but unfortunetely for every one know there are at least ten who fall victim to the evil hand of advertising. Worldly goods seem to always be directed towards females; it seams that we are thought to have low self worth and we can be easily swayed this way and that. Unfortunetely, most of us are controlled by this more than anything else. I live with my mom and my two sisters and I can see how they are affected by it. I used to be too, and I sometimes still am, but I think that being included in spiritual practices, just as you were talking about, I am able to understand and have a thin (and building) layer of control between myself and those outer demons (some that are targeted primarily at females)....

So, if that didn't make any sense...in short, I agree with you. :)

BlackBillBlake

09-03-2004, 12:30 AM

Thanks to Chief Cowpie for the very beautiful posts, to Kumar for empathy and for reminding me that all follow His path! And to Svg Gdn Beauty for being a ray of hope!

Hare Krishna!

GanjaPrince

09-03-2004, 12:37 AM

gdkumarsaid, "However, I would like to frankly and sincerely tell you that I am bit depressed with your new name. I am afraid it does not suit you at all. I am sorry, please do not misunderstand me."

Yeah, I realized that some people would probably be upset by the name I choose. It is meant to show that I do not take my image seriously, I don't consider ganja my sole spiritual method, although I do use it with my bhakti practice in praise of shiva, here and there, and honor it as a sacred plant, as you will see when I explain my current practices... I consider my primary method universal love and compassion for all beings, nonviolence, love and awareness of the moment, and worship of Krishna also known as shiva also known as brahma aka god aka jesus aka buddha realm...

Anyway to better flesh out, what the ganjaprince does, here is the practices, in which I move to stay true to my mystical experiences, and live with the faith in my own experiences, and the awareness of god in all!

The practices of the ganjaprince:

I do one hour daily raja yoga techniques of meditation, also known as kriya yoga taught by yogananda's line of gurus, prem rawat's knowledge techniques, and it has other names, but basically the techniques orginate from the yoga sutras. Raja yoga means royal yoga.

I also smoke the sacred ganja in praise of Shiva, chanting the mantra; OM SHIVA SHANKARA HARE HARE GANGA, a mantra for smoking dope as approved in blessing by Neem Karoli Baba, most likely aimed at westerners. I often listen to krishna das's album, in which is included a beautiful chant that shiva lovers do while smoking hash in thier chillums do on the banks of the river ganges until the early morning light, I feel very connected to the same spirit, even though I do not follow thier rules, such a celibacy and what not.

I have a altar where I meditate, to which I practice bhakti yoga to the universal guru and/or god, i have various pictures of realized beings, gods teachers and plants to represent this guru... in no particular order after all they are all one; Amma, Ananda Mayee Ma, Neem Karoli Baba, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Shiva, Durga, Divine Mother, Kali, Babaji, Yogananda, Ramakrishna, and many more. There i say prayers, usually do my meditation, do pranams, chants, just chat with god about my issues, and I have various holy books; Remember; Be Here Now, Autobiography of a Yogi, Miracle of love, and others... which i page through for wisdom and study. I even made love in front of my alter once.

I occassionaly use psychedelics which is like medicine for my practice. I usually go out in nature (I tend to see this as sort of a native american kind of ritual, connection with nature, like the peyote cults of certain tribes) or sit by my altar... listen to music, and stare at neem karoli baba, he keeps my trip going really really great! I consider psychedelics as my teachers, like one would go visit a teacher, get satsang, or whatever... psychedelics are like that, they help me in my practice... my last trip on mescaline last week, I was out in the woods, laying around with a shiva blanket blessed by the hugging saint amma, and I was feeling lonely, I called out to mother earth... she sent many sparrows which surrounded me and sung me into a sweet comfort, I felt so loved. (I have had many of these type experiences over the years. The wild animals, the forms of the mother earth, can dance with you if you open your mind, and open your heart... they listen to your energy! Love them and play with them.)

Note: Psychedelics are not for everyone, they did introduce me to the spiritual path, transforming me several years ago from athiest to spiritual seeker... For many people they can open one up, and become a catalyst for a wide variety of mystical experiences... Neem Karoli Baba called it yogi medicine.

I have gotten into singing to god, kirtan, which falls under Bhakti Yoga, in which I sing, various songs, from rock n roll, to hindu mantras like Krishna Das's stuff! Krishna Das's stuff is the more formal, but I love rock, and love to sing it, the beatle's wrote love songs to god, didn't ya know?

Probably the most misunderstood and controversial of what i do, i practice tantra, with myself, worshipping beautiful porn stars as forms of the divine mother and other beings... Currently I also have a friend, a beautiful form of the divine mother, her earthly name is Aimiee, we like to play and merge and have a great time with our tantric practice... our practice has provided healing in both our lives, even though it isn't always earth shattering and cosmic, most of the time it is though. It helps me move the sexual energy into higher chakras, and tranform it in order to come closer to god... Once eating out her sacred yoni, while she bathed me in the enegy of her orgasms, I had a visions of Ananda Mayee Ma, she smiled at me, as a tumbled into this void of light. Sex to me, is an expression of my love for the divine mother, and a way to heal myself.

Karma Yoga, when I go out into the world, I do what I do, work, school, relationships, chores, and so on, but my acts are dedicated to krishna, to god, to christ and so on! As krishna said, do what you do but dedicate it to me!

"when you know how to listen, everyone is the guru" - Baba Ram Dass

Here is how i view sadhana, from a page in Remember Be Here Now...

"Sadhana is a full time thing that you do because there is nothing else to do. You do it whether you're teaching, or sitting in a monastery, whether you're lying in bed, going to the toilet, making love, eating, EVERYTHING is a part of waking up!" - Baba Ram Dass

so in a sense it is a way to show that I am not here to preach a great wisdom, for I know nothing that you don't know, and what I have to say is really not in words like 'ganjaprince' it is in the vibration of love from me to you. I am just another being dancing in love with god, I am nothing special. although who we ARE, is very special, and that encompasses all of the universe.

the name is in a way honoring my past for ganja played a part in getting me into spirit and realizing the cosmic joke, so it's kind of a goof name, meant to reflect my understanding of god's playful nature, and my rejection of political correct spirituality.

So I guess you can say, I am a politically incorrect mystic and the name reflects that. the politically correct name might be "godlover" or "energyripple' who knows, I like the name. It's not a prince of anything special, like prince rama, just a prince of a plant, only in a cosmic joking sense though, because we are all equal, a bum on the street is just as much christ as jesus himself. hehehe :)

And it is to help inspire pot smokers out there, that toke up and play video games to find a spiritual way to use it. Because they will obviously connect my words with my name... you see, subtle and not so subtle. :)

and ganja plant is so put down by so many people, that in a way it is my cross to carry to honor the plant as a medicine rather then what others make it out to be, kind of a political statement, in jest of course...

because after all, we don't need plants or any external thing, all we need is to realize what we have right in our hearts of heart.

I hope that explains things.

ChiefCowpie

09-03-2004, 02:42 AM

“A'in it harm no one, do what thou wilt” (i.e., do whatever you want to, as long as it harms nobody, including yourself).

Wiccan Rede

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-03-2004, 03:00 AM

“A'in it harm no one, do what thou wilt” (i.e., do whatever you want to, as long as it harms nobody, including yourself).

Wiccan Rede
That one's a big hippie belief :)

ChiefCowpie

09-03-2004, 03:08 AM

and there are lots of hippies around here... i thought of it in relation to ganjaprince's post as in so many ways he is living such an exemplary and loving and godly life... so he smokes some pot... he's not hurting anyone or at least if he is, its himself

and i feel with his being the tuned in soul that he is, if comes the time for him to give up his pot, he will

but i personally don't thinks its either necessary or even harmful

but for some it may be...to each his own but harm no one

ChiefCowpie

09-03-2004, 03:10 AM

by Indranilla from another website

"Recently I read a little book called "Simple for the Simple" by Bhakti Ballabh Puri Goswami from Scotland. He describes the story of his wife, Ratnaranjini, who died after a long battle with cancer. She was bedridden for about two years and during that time was deeply absorbed in reading, hearing and chanting. Sivarama Swami writes in the foreword about her last months:

Bit by bit, certain details emerged and I witnessed a living picture of a Vaisnavi becoming self-realized. Before I could ask any more, before I could visit her again, she left. All of a sudden I found myself constantly thinking of Ratna. A simple devotee, who served the Vaisnavas and the mission of Srila Prabhupada, had clearly understood her svarupa and gone back to Godhead. She was not a sannyasi, not a guru, and not a big book distributor. Yet by her simple faith, she seemed to have easily achieved the goal of life.

These thoughts began to haunt me all the more because I could not discuss it with her. Ratnaranjini was evidence of Srila Prabhupada's promise. "Chant 16 rounds, follow the regulative principles and you will go back to Godhead." Without extraneous effort, as a consequence of her service, it just happened. Automatically.
One evening, as a few devotees at the temple were talking about Krishna Consciousness and eternal service in the spiritual world, all of a sudden Ratnaranjini said that she was liberated and had an eternal service. She said that she was a young girl, 7-8 years old, and her service was to help Yashoda Ma pack Krishna's lunch. Everybody was quite astonished. Later in her room, she broke down in tears and said, "I don't want to be a sahajiya. It just happened. I did not try to think of anything, it just all happened, and I'm not sure about it." The following days she revealed some more details about her service and her identity, e.g. that her name was Rati, but left many questions unanswered. Often she was deeply absorbed in meditation, and in the last few weeks before her death she would only respond to the name Rati, not Ratnaranjini. Her departure from this world very auspicious.

Prior to her illness she was a simple, humble and ordinary devotee who served in the background and cared for the temple devotees like a mother. Her main service was the bookkeeping for the temple. She would often say, "Troubles only come when we are not busy enough. When we are fully engaged, then where is the time for all the little so-called problems that the mind likes to try to disturb us with?.... Just work hard, busy all the time, then there is no time to listen to the mind."

I find her story very touching and inspiring. But I kept wondering, did she really attain her svarupa "automatically, as a consequence of her service"? I don't see it so much as a consequence of her hard work in the temple but of the intense hearing and chanting during the last two years of her life. Her realization came when she was constantly absorbed in krishna-katha, and not when she was doing the bookkeeping, cleaning or preaching in the temple. I would appreciate any insights about achieving spiritual perfections "automatically." A quote from ACBSP I wrote down many years ago:

"The devotee should patiently follow the rules and regulations of devotional service so that the day will come when he will achieve, all of a sudden all the perfection of devotional service. This patience (dhairya) is the fifth positive item for advancing in devotional service." (Narada-bhakti-sutra, 5)

gdkumar

09-03-2004, 06:50 AM

Hare Krishna!

Dear GanjaPrince,

I do not now feel sorry for commenting on your new name rather feel happy that this led to having such a wonderful post from you. Thank you.

You have always been very close to me and I thought 'LookingSomewhereDistant' was a very nice name....... hence, just spoke about it.

However, we will definitely talk about your beautiful post sometime later. In near future, I am likely to be in the US, I would love to meet you if opportunity and you permit.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

BlackBillBlake

09-03-2004, 12:59 PM

'Do what you will' is ok, but hardly in line with any kind of regulative principle of yoga, certainly as taught by such as Srila Prabhupada, Sri Ramakrishna and nearly all the mainstream gurus of modern times.
I have to say its not the dope that worries me so much as this 'tantric' approach to sexuality. The trouble is that its not easy to see how this is different from just sensuality. There is a great danger of mistaking lower forces, what Sri Aurobindo called the vital, for the Divine. There may be an opening not to God, but to just sensual pleasure, or worse, asuric forces.who like to masquerade as Divine beings.
Some think that the pastimes of Krishna and the Gopis are sexual in nature, but Prabhupada says this is not so - these are purely spiritual exchanges of Rasa.
From another perspective, one can say that the Vedic idea of Svadharma could seem the same as the 'wiccan rune' (or Aliester Crowley's 'do what thou wilt'), but the similarity is superficial. One who attains to Svarupa has no longer any interest in sex, or in other sensual pleasure, as that person has discovered the real Ananda of the Divine, which is not a passing thing, subject to change, but something eternal.
LSD etc can be useful as an introduction to spiritual realities, but again, its not a permanant state - one comes down, and in many cases (I've met lots over the years) there is a falling away from any insight gained. And there is a danger that because one has this or that experience, one will think oneself more advanced on the path than is the case.
In this yoga, we are not seeking the enhancement of the ego, or its apotheosis, but to serve God, to overcome false ego and realize our true spiritual identity. The Atman or Jiva being spititual is quite free from sensual desires, or the need for 'magical' practices.
To summarize - the 'will'of the lower being is not the same as the 'will' of the higher spiritual self. If it were, then there would be no need for Sadhana or Yoga.

Hare Krishna!

ChiefCowpie

09-03-2004, 03:42 PM

'Do what you will' is ok, but hardly in line with any kind of regulative principle of yoga,
its the "but hurt no one" that's the important part and applicable to one's yoga. That hurting no one, also includes one's own self.

sleeping jiva

09-03-2004, 04:37 PM

oh yeah, it's hardly acceptable by Srila Prabhupada. If u just love Krishna, u don't need pot, when u need it, u don't love Krishna properly. But I know that GanjaPrince tries to honour the plant and that I find very excpetional. Let that be the way out. Just chant mahamantra, u don't need all those yogas, they're not efficient in this age. Yoga means freedom from power of senses. I wish u good luck. I liked black bill's "bad drugs" list, you're definetely right. Alcohol is just simply evil comparing to ganja. Cigarettes too and they're supported by government, what a hypocrisy.

sleeping jiva

09-03-2004, 04:53 PM

BlackBillBlake: Hey, it's a great thing u wanna do, please don't give up. It's only maya when u see kids don't wanna hear about Krishna. Man, I know it's really hard. The only thing is to go on. Wait until they come down :) they will be eager to hear about Krishna, when their material life proves to be suffering. I wish u good luck, you're in my prayers, u'r a great guy.

ChiefCowpie

09-03-2004, 05:03 PM

"I have to admit that at this time, in spite of my daily association with Bhaktivedanta, I was not happy with the Hare Krishna’s, in fact I was downright miserable. My wife did nothing but fight with me, the leaders were all in my opinion quite insane, and the entire atmosphere was as stressful as it had ever been. I had an organic candy business making Bhakti, Shakti and Bliss bars, and was tripping around selling to various health food stores, when I ran into an old devotee I knew from Laguna Beach who had traveled to India with Bhaktivedanta, but had become disillusioned and had left the movement, so I started hanging out with him and smoking hash just to get a bit of relief. Om Shiva. Bhaktivedanta traveled for a few weeks and then returned to LA. It was during his absence that I started hanging with my friend and smoking hash, and of course my straight laced wife finds out about it and go and tells the then GBC and temple president Karandar, who when they return, then goes and tells Nanda Kumar who then goes and tells Bhaktivedanta. I’d gone to a rather strange headspace during this time, and not just from smoking hash. I was chanting over 100 rounds a day, sleeping a few hours each night and was wearing a saffron dhoti tied like a sanyassi dhoti rather than my white house holder dhoti. Bhaktivedanta called me to his room, took one look at me and said, “What are you doing?” I said I was chanting over 100 rounds a day and wanted to be a sanyassi and live in Vrindaban. I don’t get along with my wife, no one here understands me and I don’t get along with the temple authorities. He laughed and said I’ll tell you when its time for you to go to Vrindaban. He then said so I hear you’ve been smoking hash hish? And I said yes. And he said best not to as no one will understand what I am doing, but he didn’t take it at all seriously. Said I should dress normally and be a house holder and set a good example and come back and do his massages while he was there, so I did."
Kanupriya dasa

ChiefCowpie

09-03-2004, 05:06 PM

and too, to hurt no one is love eveyone... to love one's self

to truly love one's self is to love Krishna as Krishna is the natural reciever of our love

gdkumar

09-03-2004, 08:26 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

Thank you for your beautiful post... a ray of hope, as said by BBB. I am sorry if I inadvertently had hurt you.

The dangerous problem of today's young generation is wide spread and is a global problem now. All problems are due to wrong identification of 'Ananda' or lack of teachings on our part to let them know and realize what gives real and permanent pleasure. It is a vast subject and we could go on and on. Let us only keep trying to tell through any possible way or medium(Like this Forum) that there is everlasting love, eternal pleasure and truly blissful addiction....... to chant His name and see the upheaval it brings in one's life, leading to the bliss of divine consciousness.

As the babies and children are necessarily closer to their mothers during the whole process of growing up, it is imperative that the mothers should prepare themselves first. Because we can successfuly preach something when we practise it ourselves.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

gdkumar

09-03-2004, 08:31 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear ChiefCowpie,

All those posts about the birds and flowers of Brindavan, the photographs and the last post on Rati(Ratnaranjini).........very beautiful and inspiring. Thank you.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

BlackBillBlake

09-03-2004, 09:06 PM

its the "but hurt no one" that's the important part and applicable to one's yoga. That hurting no one, also includes one's own self.I see your point Chief, but I think the issue is quite complex. What hurts people, really? What is the root cause of their suffering? One answer given in the Vedic literature is that it is avidya, ignorance of God and the Soul that is the real cause of suffering, and yoga is the way out of this. Therefore any action outside of yoga is only a source of harm, to oneself and/or to others, because it is just generating more karma that one day will have to be faced.
It's also interesting to note the marked contrast between the wiccan's 'do what you will if it harm none', and Jesus 'Thy Will Be Done'.
It's the Will of God we have to seek, not just to find a way to satisfy the desires of the lower nature.

Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

09-03-2004, 09:11 PM

and too, to hurt no one is love eveyone... to love one's self

to truly love one's self is to love Krishna as Krishna is the natural reciever of our love
Surely love is a dynamic thing, not just to refrain from harming others?

Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake

09-03-2004, 09:33 PM

gdkumar

09-03-2004, 10:32 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear GanjaPrince,

Regarding your thought provoking beautiful post I would like to add to whatever has been truly said by BBB.

By God's grace I have been to almost all the countries of the world, met thousands of people from various religions, race and creed and , of course, met and came in close contacts with many great sadhus. It is my Lord's great compassion that I was blessed by them. These sadhus are from different paths of Sadhana but at one point they are at one with that you should behave like a normal social being when you are living in a society. You must have the sense of social responsibility.

I do not qualify and am not a fool enough to question a great sadhu like Neem Karoli baba. But I have serious doubts about whether He prescribed Ganja for all in general.If He told a few chosen ones(Depending on their merits and need) to use Ganja it is alright. Even then I suppose it should be practised in total desolation.

Practice of what is divine game for you could be game of death for most of the others. What Lord Shiva could do (To contain all the poison in His throat) we can not do the same(We are still suffering from the little poison that had spilled off from His mouth). Nirguna Yogis can do anything and everything, they can eat white-hot piece of coal without trace of any pain. Should we try to do that?

True Tantrics or the Prabartaks(Beginners) never do any sadhana living inside the social decorum. And sex is something you should be more careful about. All jobs are His jobs alright but we do not need to talk about everything in general to everybody. Ganja, sex, alcohol all could be of temporary gains only for just a few but they have devastating effects on 99% of the users(And it is the young generation). Everything has a medicinal value, but do we honestly take them as medicine! We know the ruins made by these so called drugs.

One who attains to Svarupa has no longer any interest in sex, or in other sensual pleasure, as that person has discovered the real Ananda of the Divine, which is not a passing thing, subject to change, but something eternal.
LSD etc can be useful as an introduction to spiritual realities, but again, its not a permanant state - one comes down, and in many cases (I've met lots over the years) there is a falling away from any insight gained. And there is a danger that because one has this or that experience, one will think oneself more advanced on the path than is the case.
........From BlackBillBlake

I fully agree with BBB and would like to suggest that there is far more than what we have seen and understood. Beam of sun rays definitely represent the sun but seeing the rays and seeing the sun are two greatly different things. Seeing the corner of the dress of the mother is not seeing the mother. Of course, that itself gives us lot of pleasure and peace that She is around. Should we stop there or try to see Her?

ChiefCowpie rightly says it is OK as long as it does not do any harm to him or others. But I strongly feel it is not Ok because it may not be to you but causing great harm to others.

I always hold you in high esteem, you are at a much higher plane even without Ganja. Hope, you understand me.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

BlackBillBlake

09-03-2004, 11:32 PM

Thank you Kumar for that wonderful post - esp. the part about the difference between touching the Mother's apron and seeing Her more fully! I love it:)

You rightly say that for some few ganja may be ok, but for many it will be just another negative addiction.

Recently, I was talking about this to a freind, who reminded me that George Harrison, a great devotee of Sri Krishna, was a heavy smoker of cigarettes, and possibly, cannabis too. So one can't say absolutely that one who does these things is excluded in some way from Krishna Consciousness. But George's sad and untimely demise is an indicator of the dangers. Had George quit smoking years ago, maybe he'd still be alive today............

Krishna Krishna Krishna Krishna
Krishna Krishna Krishna He!

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-04-2004, 12:54 AM

phybre

09-04-2004, 02:59 PM

hare krishna is the eldest religion in the world. It came in the form of Vedas 5000 years ago.The Hare Krishna movement (ISKCON) was started in 1966. It is not 5000 years old. Hinduism itself is not 5000 years old. The Vedas were written 3500 years ago. Hinduism may be (arguably) the oldest still-practiced religion in the world, but it is certainly not the oldest to ever exist. There are no credible records going back that far, to make such a claim. The Hare Krishna movement is not Hinduism any more than Christianity is Judaism. If you consider ISKCON to be "reform Hinduism" then it logically follows that Christianity is "reform Judaism".

There are questionable records that can place the roots of Hinduism as far back as 6000 BCE. But there are equally questionable records that can place the roots of Judaism as far back as 8000 BCE. It's not meaningful to claim one came before the other, or that others did not exist, since all the records going that far back are terrible.

sleeping jiva

09-04-2004, 05:36 PM

Krishna is eternal, u r eternal, we r eternal.

phybre

09-04-2004, 06:19 PM

Krishna is eternal, u r eternal, we r eternal.Einstein said that he only believed that two things were eternal: the universe and human stupidity. And he added that he wasn't sure about the former.

gdkumar

09-04-2004, 08:12 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear Friends, Devotees and Seekers,

The following is one letter, one of the most shining jewels in the spiritual sky, from the great Yogi Krishnaprem to his friend, Dadaji Dilip Kumar Roy, another great Yogi. The former at the time of writing the letter was already self-realized and was one who saw not only the rays but the sun itself. The latter was still the seeker with endless questions and doubts and much later he also could see Lord Krishna before his death. The last words before his death were, "Please wash my hands, my Lord, Krishna, has come and I want to touch His feet."

Yogi Krishnaprem had advised Dadaji not to publish this letter but Dadaji did it for all of us under the divine wish of the Lord. He had apologized thousand times for this. Please read with patience, this letter is strongly inspiring, it will remove many doubts and answer many questions that normally bug most of us.

My dear Dilip, 31st December, 1932.
Almora.

You ask if I have ever had doubts. Well, not now - to any serious extent. I came to see that the root cause of my doubts was simply that things were not going as I wished them to go. When I ceased to expect that things should go as I wished, the doubts vanished. I do not mean by the above that I consider that I have attained the stage of ceasing to want things to go my way. All I mean is that I have ceased to make it a prerequisite of faith that these should so do. Since then I am not worried in any serious manner. I believe that desire to have one's own way is the root cause of all doubt.

My own position is something like this : It is well known that there are three main sources of proof - Pratyaksha, Anumana and Shabda(Or Aptabachan). Now common opinion starts by assuming that Pratyaksha is the most valid - 'Seeing is believing' as they say, then Anumana, and lastly authority or Aptabachan. This view leads almost inevitably(If courageously followed) to Russellism. On the contrary the great seers of the past, of all schools of thought, have taken quite the contrary view. They agreed that inasmuch as our senses are notoriously liable to error and super normal experiences, notoriously liable to misinterpretation, Pratyaksha praman is defective. Inference(Anumana) being dependent on Pratyaksha is liable to the same defects and the best basis for belief is Aptabachan whether in the form of Gurubakya or of Shastra - the two are fundamentally the same thing. They then reversed the ordinary order and by so doing arrived not at Russellism but at spiritual experience and Divine realization. Hence I hold that one must at all costs start from the right end if one is to get the right result. One must give up the stupid belief that the world is what it seems to be. It isn't and the sooner we realise that, the better for us. Incidentally, why do you keep harping on Russell ? I quite agree that he is a fine man in many ways and a fine thinker of his own sort, but why do you keep hoping that your Gurudev(Rishi Aurobindo) or someone else will answer his sceptical arguments ? If you accept Russell's premises you will be forced into his conclusions, but then why accept his premises ? He is no muddle-headed thinker whose coclusions are at fault with his premises. Quite the reverse. If you set foot on an escalator you will automatically be carried to the top of it, so don't set foot on it when you see it is going in the wrong direction.

How do we know that the Shastra is true ? How do we know that the Grand Trunk road from Calcutta leads to Delhi ? Because thousands and thousands have passed along it and reached the goal described. Has any one yet been known to reach God through Russellism ? "By their fruits shall ye know them." No one has yet reached God by reliance on sense-testimony alone.

The next point you raise is about the concreteness of Sri Krishna. You use the term 'Sarupya' as equivalent to 'milan'. This is not quite clear to me. In Vaishnava terminology 'sarupya' means merely having a similar form to that of Sri Krishna and is not used for Radha Bhava. However, that is a mere matter of names. I am myself utterly certain that Sri Krishna can be experienced in perfect concreteness. As I think I once said before, He is the concrete of concretes and no mere misty abstraction or imagined form. He is no semi-imaginary projection out of a formless Brahman, but is the reality which supports all else. I am not denying the reality of experience of the Nirvishesha Brahman but saying that the latter is like seeing the sunlight while to see Krishna is to see the sun itself.

I quite agree with you that love of Sri Krishna is far more satisfying than any mere impersonal Ananda and one who has once reached the level even of desiring such love can never be satisfied with less. But on the other hand I do also feel that one must make no demands on Him that He should show Himself to receive our love. There is no doubt whatever that He both can and does do so, and that, too, in as concrete a form as anyone could desire, but I feel that one must leave that entirely to Him and - if it is His will - be content to love Him without any return or even any Darshan. Till then our love is tainted with selfishness. Gopi-prem is not the desire to enjoy Krishna but the desire to serve and be enjoyed by Him. One must make no demands and no bargain. But at the same time that does not mean, as some 'adhyatmikisers' teach, that love of Krishna is thus merely a means to establish in any easy manner the state of unselfishness and that when that is attained there is no further need of the personal Krishna at all. It is quite the other way round. Unselfishness is the means to attain Him and at His own time He does accept the love of His bhakta in as personal and real a form as can be desired and a great deal more real than we can conceive. He is more real, more vivid than 'sunlight on the retina' as you put it. We have got so used to consider spiritual realities as vague and unsubstantial that we quite fail to realise that whatever 'reality' and 'vividness' is to be found in our sense-perceptions is but a faint shadow of His vividness. Krishna's embraces are no mere damned allegory about purusha and prakriti. And for God's sake, Dilip, remember that Krishna's feet are more real than yours.

You write that you have sometimes criticised Sri Aurobindo. You shouldn't have. Of course he will not mind. He sees jewel in the lotus and can smile at your crticism, - but you must not do it. Even in thought you must not criticise him. It all springs from desire to have things one's own way. He is your Guru and first, it is sheer ingratitude to criticise one who has shown you the light, and secondly, the Guru is inseparable from Krishna. He is the one who has shown you the light, and your whole life can be no repayment for such a gift. Even if you were to spend the rest of this life with no further 'experiences' at all you would be utterly wrong if you refused to give yourself to him. As far as I know he does not ask for blind obedience from his disciples(At least so I gather from his letters) but one must never criticise even when one can not follow. If one could understand everything one's Guru said, then there would not be a deal of need for a Guru at all.

You say you wonder why doubts persist even in the face of experience. Well, I think one reason is because we do not see the full causal system of spiritual experiences. Our ordinary life is a linked series of causes and effects and the persistence of the visible effects assures us of the reality of their causes. Thus the reality of the interview I had with a carpenter yesterday or last month is testified to by the reality of the piece of work he brought me today. But in spiritual experience the ordinary sadhaka is not aware of the whole cause-and-effect series and therefore these experiences seem to come without any 'before or after'. In fact they come in from another dimension and as such we tend to doubt them afterwards. But this also happens with sense-experience when the causal series is not perceived. A friend of mine once saw a ship sink suddenly in mid-ocean as a result of a torpedo from an unseen submarine and assured me that when it had sunk and left no trace whatever, he found it almost impossible to believe that there had ever been a ship there at all.

Why do you doubt that Krishna will respond to you ? Because you feel you are unworthy ? So are we all. We are no Rukminis that we can write to Krishna saying as she did that "I have such and such good qualities and only you are worthy of them". We have nothing to recommend us to Krishna except our desire for Him. That is why the Brajavasis must be our Gurus and not Rukmini, and the queens of Dwaraka. He Himself is the full of all good qualities and powers. Will you try to dazzle a jewller with a handful of imitation diamonds or astonish a Yogi with a few conjuring tricks ? All we can offer Him is our love, and that He will never reject. Would to God we had more of it......

Continued..............(2)

gdkumar

09-04-2004, 08:16 PM

(2)

I think that it is most important that we should always remember the distinction between our outer personalities and our inner selves, as Sri Aurobindo so beatifully expounds in his letter, those selves which Krishna describes as 'Eternal portions of Himself' and which Vaishnava doctrine refers to as Krishna's Nitya Das. By that inner self one must dominate the outer one or, if one is not always strong enough to do that, one must at least detach oneself from the outer, float on the outer self as the lotus floats on the water, surrounded by it but quite untouched. Faith in Krishna and love for Him is really the property of this inner self. The ordinary mental or emotional attitudes that we commonly call belief(Or doubt) are merely shadows of this inner faith cast on the outer mind and emotions. That is why they are fleeting while the inner faith is unwavering. When one acts from that inner self one is utterly free whatever one may be doing but when one acts from the outer so-called self one is bound even when one thinks one is freely indulging one's 'own' desires. In reality one is simply mechanically following the play of the three gunas in one's own(lower) nature. Nevertheless I am not urging that what is sometimes called 'self-realisation' is the goal. It can be had quite certainly and is equally certainly a state of ananda but it is not the full ananda. For that, the self which is anandakan must enter into relation with Krishna who is anandaghan. That is why the final word of the Gita is not Atmajnana(Self-knowledge) but "Manmana bhava mad-bhakto"(Be-thou-my-devotee) and that is why the Bhagabat describes faith in Atmajnana as sattwic but faith in 'Krishnaseva' as 'nistraigunya'.

I think I can sum up my 'creed'(Would it were my practice! But action always lags behind vision) in four words : "Ask nothing ; give everything." At one time I passionately desired 'experiences' and if one really desires them Krishna is no niggard, but now I feel that love of Him must be independent of all 'experiences' which will come and go at His will and to serve His purpose. It must be something like the air we breathe which may, no doubt, sometimes be perfumed with scent of flowers but is no less essential to us when it has no perceptible scent.

Some people describe Him as formless or as having thousands of hands and feet but two feet are enough for me. And what feet ! If one misses them no Brahmananda and no Mukti can be enough to compensate for the loss. I suppose some people would call this anthropomorphism, but what does it matter what they call it ? Facts are facts and I reject this modern notion that the abstract alone is true. Just as there could be no ananda anywhere if Krishna were not anandamaya so there could be no concreteness anywhere if He were not concrete and no form anywhere if He had no form. At one time, as you know, I worshipped the Buddha, and deeply too ; but that was before I knew Sri Krishna, and now, when I look down the vistas of the past, among all the host of shadowy phantom figures I see only that one Divine form gleaming with supernatural light. But why the past ? Past, present and future, there is nothing but Him. The curves of His body are worth more than all the Infinites and Eternals and Absolutes. All the worlds are within the pores of His skin, and yet there He remains, no shadowy cosmic figure, but the eternal cowherd, in yellow dhoti, peacock feathers, maddening the soul with the melody from a bamboo flute. Krishnat pram kimapi tattwam aham na jane(What truth can there be beyond Krishna - I do not know).

You see , Dilip, I am quite lost. Jagadish Chatterjee wanted me to write a book on Sri Krishna for his American school of Vedic studies, but what can I write ? I can't write grave philosophy like Woodroffe about mantra-shakti and ishta-devata and absolute being, nor delve into the dubious uncertainties of history like Bhandarkar, and I can't, to a Western public at any rate, simply recount how Krishna held up Mount Govardhan on His little finger. They would want to know what it all "meant." I am weary of all "meanings". It means just Krishna.

Love always, Dilip, from your ever affectionate,

Krishnaprem.

(Sri Aurobindo wrote about this letter to his disciple,Dadaji : "Dilip, Krishnaprem's letter is sound throughout as usual; he has, very evidently, a living spiritual consciousness and spiritual knowledge.")

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

gdkumar

09-04-2004, 08:22 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear BlackBillBlake,

Thank you for your beautiful and kind post.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

Jedi

09-05-2004, 08:17 AM

JAI SRI KRISHNA!

The inner consicous entity, the one who dwells in the ocean of milk , SRI HARI! KI JAI!

gdkumar

09-05-2004, 01:00 PM

Hare Krishna !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Jedi
JAI SRI KRISHNA!

The inner consicous entity, the one who dwells in the ocean of milk , SRI HARI! KI JAI!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you, Jedi.
Jai Sri Hari !, Jai Sri Krishna !, Jai Sri Radhe !

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

BlackBillBlake

09-05-2004, 01:32 PM

Haribol!

Dear Kumar - thank you so much for the letter by Krishnaprem:) It is indeed a most enlightening read. I have saved it, and will re-read it later.
I would just like to say that recently, a new book has come out, published by the Society for Evolutionary Research (Paris) 'Sri Aurobindo to Dilip' - a collection of letters on yoga etc. I'm not sure if it can be ordered online, but I will find out.

Hare Kishna!

BlackBillBlake

09-05-2004, 03:11 PM

I would like to share this with all of you - it is from'The Sunlit Path' - a collection of answers and conversations of Sweet Mother of Pondicherry, the yogic partner of Sri Aurobindo. I repeat Kumar's advice from his earlier post - please take time to read this carefully:)

Rely On The Divine Alone.

There is one thing you must learn, never to rely on anyone or anything whatever except the Divine. For if you lean upon anyone for support, that support will break, you may be sure of that. From the minute you start doing yoga (I always speak to those who do yoga,I do not speak about ordinary life), for those who do yoga to depend upon someone else is like wanting to transform that person into a representative of the Divine force; now you may be sure there is not one in a hundred million who can carry the weight; he will break immediately. So never take the attitude of hoping for support, help, comfort from anyone except the Divine. That is absolute; I have never, not once, met anyone who tried to cling to something to find a support there (someone doing yoga or who has been put in touch with yoga) and who was not decieved - it breaks, it stops, one looses one's support. Then one says ' life is difficult' - it is not difficult but one must know what one is doing. Never seek support elsewhere than in the Divine. Never seek satisfaction elsewhere than in the Divine. Never seek the satisfaction of your needs in anyone else except the Divine - never, for anything at all. All your needs can be satisfied only by the Divine. All your weaknesses can be bourne and healed only by the Divine. He alone is capable of giving you what you need in everything, always, and if you try to find any satisfaction or support or help or joy or.......Heaven knows what, in anyone else, you will always fall on your nose one day, and that always hurts, sometimes even hurts very much.

Om Shanti!

sleeping jiva

09-05-2004, 04:08 PM

OH thanks! It's partly an answer to ganja smoking. Krishna will give u everything, but maya will give u pain from loosing the maya. What a wise advice. This Krishna consciousness is so well, becuz simply by chanting and loving Krishna, the Supreme God, all your desires can be fulfilled. U don't need anything else. Everything is due to destruction, even your knowledge. If u attain a certain stage of knowledge, in the nest life u start from beginning. It's all temporal. Try to engage yourself in service to Krishna, cuz in that way you r naturally thinking of Him. haribol!

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-05-2004, 06:52 PM

Dear gdkumar and blackbillblake...

Thank you so much for those wonderful posts. I really liked them and I def will read them again at a later date...because it seams sometimes I understand different things about books and literature after I read it a second time. :)

Thank you so much again! :) :) Hare Krishna!

GanjaPrince

09-05-2004, 07:14 PM

Thanks for all your wonderful energy and thoughts. (Please forgive my spelling errors)

I agree with chief that as long as it doesn't hurt anyone including yourself it is ok... And in my case it doesn't actually I would say it's good for me when it comes along.

And also I respect those that disagree with my sadhana, and wish you peace, love, happiness and endless laughter. Let our disagreements be music of Krishna's flute.

And believe me, I searched my heart of hearts for the answer to these questions, and recieved one, maybe not the socially, be a good yogi and eat your green beans answer, but I follow my heart. Also through many synchronistic blessings that I took as the universe as saying, you are doing the right thing.

See it's not toking or not toking, it is your mind being attached to it or not. The mind's attachment...

And same goes with sex

For example with sex, many of you may be aware of the story of Shiva's lingam. Shiva is this great renunciate,the king of yogis, with divine madness and wisdom. He sits on the mountains, leaving the world, lost in the ecstasy of his inner heart... Then he comes out of his meditation and wanting to play a cosmic joke on some horney celibates, prances around naked, seducing all the woman folk with his divine personality and heavenly beauty, and they end up cheating on thier husbands. Thier husbands were celibate, and gave up sex, yet in thier minds they were very attached to thier wives in a sexual way. And instead of being happy that a great god like Shiva (who is also krishna by the way) made sweet love to thier wife in such a beautiful healing way, they got upset and went after Shiva, who said if they were so angry at his linga (his penis) he would rip it off, which he did... The world slipped into darkness because the sacred balance was lost, and all the husbands went to Brahma (who is also krishna) and he explained that to be really spiritual, it matters not whether they have sex or not with thier wives, it's where thier head is it. Do they do it with detachment, because celibacy when your a horny jealous guy (or girl) is not gonna help anyone. And as a ritualistic understanding of that, the worship of Shiva's lingam was started.

So, it's where your head is at, and how far you push inside your heart of hearts, opening and expanding it to the ends of the universe.

(Note: I have nothing against eat your green beans and clean your plate spiritual discipline, We must not forget that everything is not so black and white when it comes to the "rules" of the spiritual path with certain things mind you)

To be honest, I see sex, and toking, and all that I do, as an act of love for the divine. :)

Like krishna said, do what you do but dedicate it to me!

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

And friends, I must say, that I won't be on these forums as much, because I am very involved with school right now (and my sadhana of course, but that everything I do, let me not forget... hehehe :) ), and don't have the internet as close as it used to be So I must focus on other things. Please know though, that all of you are in my heart, and the true teachings come from deep within your soul.

sleeping jiva

09-05-2004, 07:14 PM

Bhagavadgita is like that. U can rad it for eternity and still find new things in it. Bhagavadgita and Krishna are the same. :)

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-05-2004, 07:41 PM

be a good yogi and eat your green beans
hehehehehe....I know you were being serious but something about this phrase just makes me laugh.... :)

Thanks for that...even though you probably weren't intending to be funny... :)

Haribol!

sleeping jiva

09-05-2004, 08:00 PM

Hey Ganja Prince. I see myself in you. Í agree with all of that and yet I disagree, cuz what is my agreement than three modes of material nature playing with me? haha.

The thing is, I'm not a renuncient, I try to be out of sex, but it's the hardest thing in the world! haha. For last two years, I was trying to figure out how to stop masturbating. Never mind the rules, or anything. I just wanted to see if it's possible. I wanted to experience it before I say it's wrong. U know? I was taking drugs too, but I find to cut your sex life way more harder to do. But I must tell you, there's one thing, which people tend to overlook. Sex is not necessity and it certainly is not fulfilling! Yeah, it's not. It won't satisfy you. The satisfaction is temporal. I'm saying this as a weak guy, who's just too horny :) Don't treat me as a preacher, who say do this otherwise hell is your future :). Sex is like itching, when you scratch it becomes even more unbearable. While I was trying to stop(still trying) I was capable to restrain myself from masturbation for a month, not longer and after that I caved in. But the weird thing is I'm not able to return to restraining right away. I masturbate a day after and day after and day after -it's impossible to get back to restraining right away. That's why I see that sex is like an addiction. And what is addictive can't be a path to freedom, cuz that's what we r looking for. Another thing I've noticed that after I cave in(please have a good laugh while I'm describing this), I'm more nervous and there's this little anger within me all day long. It's very subtle, but it's there and now I can see it. I'm not in a very high stage of Krishna consciousness, but I believe I understand it a little bit from a theorethical point of view. Srila Prabhupada says that love for Krishna is not cutting out your natural desires, but engage them in loving service to Krishna. He's a person, that's why it's so easy to love Him and also to satisfy all these desires naturaly. Not by cutting them, but using them in their natural way -service to Krishna. I'm sorry to use this example, but I know u'll understand: When I used to hit acid, the experience was so strong that sex seemed funny to me. In my opinion Krishna consciousness brings the same thing. It's not like torturing oneself, killing the desire, no. It's more like Krishna is so beautiful and loving that sex would be a way back from ecstasy. Yes, Srila Prabhupada says it's an ecstasy! If u don't feel this ecstasy you're not in there yet. I can see how my enviroment influence me and there r all these sex-related things everywhere. Girls walking in sexy clothes, sex on tv, stimulants everywhere. I know that people r affected by this a lot. Whethere its'boys or girls. I don't see anything spiritual about this sexuality. U can feel it's in synchronicity with the universe, but how can u know?
Many times when I used to be taking drugs I found myself in a position of a man who sees what others don't. And in that position it was impossible to explain others what drugs bring. When u don't experience it, u can't really tak about it. Now, I'm in the same position, convincing people to take up Krishna consciousness and I'm bumping into the same thing. How can u know if u haven't tried it? How can u know that mahamantra is a nonsense, if u never tried it? Haha, but people r illusioned. That's maya. they think they're right about it without trying it.
U mentioned a verse from Bhagavadgita. Whatever u do, do it for Me -that's what Krishna says. But in Prabhupada's purports u may read that this verse can be also easily exploited. Of course when u chant mahamantra and think of Krishna, eventho u cannot serve Him directly, it's ok and u r very wise. I remember chanting even when I was drunk! Guilt can be also maya. I knew that there's the only thing, which could help me and now I haven't touched alcohol for a long time, so u're definetely right in this way

There's a difference between Krishna and jivas. Brahma and Shiva r qualitatively Krishna, but not in quantity. They're like us. You r Krishna, I am Krishna, everyone's Krishna, but only in quality. Our hearts contain a part of Krishna, but we're not Him, my friend. Neither Brahma or Shiva r Him. Be careful, cuz this is tricky. They got special powers but the highest personality is Krishna. Even Brahma dies!
Gdkumar mentioned before that we shouldn't imitate demigods, or Krishna. U may find a chapter in Srimad Bhagavatam about Krishna seducing gopi girls, married women. But that's not for us to imitate. If u want to imitate, then u should imitate everything. When Shiva is having sex with married women, u should drink a lake of poison like he did. Anyhow, I think rules r important. there r lots of rules that were made just to control people, I know. Just take the parliaments in the world, they're passing bills every single day!!! And why? Just so people can cheat more. Rules r given by Vedas. When Krishna, the guy who made all this and controls everything tells you something, I'd listen to Him being at your place :) If He knows present, past and future why shouldn't we take advice from Him? U may argue that the scriptures were adjusted by people, but man like Srila Prabhupada, u cannot find any flaw in his life. He knew what to do, he could explain this philosophy on a scientific base, he was always refering to scriptures and he made it. U must believe it, that's true, but there's so much evidence that parampara(succesion of spiritual teachers, which was started by Krishna Himself) was respected when he cam into this world.

Even if u do stuff, remember Krishna and u r free.
I wish u a good laugh, it heals :) thanks for your nice contributions. U r very nice guy, I can see it by your writing.
haribol!

BlackBillBlake

09-05-2004, 09:40 PM

Dear Sleeping Jiva,

I was very moved by your last post to Ganja Prince. I admire your honesty and your willingness to share with others in a public forum your private affairs, and your struggles. I know you are a person with many good qualities - one destined to see the Truth in the near future. Good bless you!:)
I'd like to make one or two observations here - firstly, let me say that at present I have been out of sexual relations for a number of years, and what you say is absolutely right - you don't need it to survive or to bring true and lasting bliss or happiness. Now - that said, it is easy for me , thanks to the grace of God and Divine Mother, and the fact that I am not so young anymore, and the sexual impulse naturally diminishes with age. (but look at the wasted effort some people to-day expend in trying to extend their virility and sex lives into old-age - not an edifying spectacle, in my view!) And even after several years, I can't say absolutely that if I met a potential partner with the right qualifications, I would't enter into a sexual relationship - but I doubt very much I would - it would be mainly for other than purely sexual considerations anyway.
I t can be very dangerous to make a battle ground of sex - or to seek artificially to repress it. As dangerous as over indulgence? Probably not, but it carries a whole set of risks - there may be desire in the heart which is held in check only at the cost of a kind of self immolation, imbalances and conflicts can arise and so on. There is even a danger that if one tries to push too far too fast, there will be a major downfalling.
The thing is that if one can't give it up, to seek a proper married relationship. You may masturbate in order to release tension and accumulated semen, that is probably harmless enough, ( with the proviso that it's not taken to excess)but try to offer even this to God. Work for a gradual purification, go on trying to develop your growing love for Krishna, your spiritual consciousness, then when the time is ripe, these unwanted desires will fall away.
Look on sex though just as sex - that, imho, is where Prince is in error (even if he is in some bliss) it is hardly a path to know God or Love Him. Human love, ie love of one human being for another has it's very great function, but it is not to be confused with Divine love, love of Godhead. That is something on an altogether higher plane. God's love for us is un-conditional. I have never yet encountered anyone in a sexual relationship with unconditional love for their partner - its all conditional and conditioned! Desire. And that is not the same as aspiration for God. The love of a mother for her child is the closest we humans get to unconditional love here.
I'm not criticizing Prince as a being - I know he is a sincere and loving person, you can tell from his posts! But as one who spent some time pursuing similar sets of ideas in the past, only to have to reject them later, I am only seeking to share my own experience, limited as that may be.

Hare Krishna!

Haribol!

sleeping jiva

09-05-2004, 11:28 PM

Oh thanks, blackbillblake :) It is the age of hypocrisy, so we gotta be honest :) otherwise confusion will come. I dared to do it, cuz now I see that more people r ready to fight for Krishna. Moreover, it's all funny and I'm just laughing about my body, how I look, or whatever and I feel free when I laugh about myself. When u think u got it all and u think you're all perfect, you r in a deep ignorance.Like u said, it's all conditional. When a man reaches orgasm, he can't do it anymore. He thinks: Enough. This is the end. But devotional service has no end and no beginning. Even if u chant few times in this lifetime, it can save u and u'll be carrying on in the next one. Everything related to Krishna is like that -it's transcendental. Krishna's power is so vast that just by chanting His names ur life changes and you're more lucky, more happy, what to speak of Krishna Himself. So all those things: prasada, Deities, Bhagavadgita, and all other books, even discussing Krishna on this thread is non-different from Krishna Himself. If u want to know Krishna these will help you. haribol! :):)

GanjaPrince

09-06-2004, 03:30 AM

hehehehehe....I know you were being serious but something about this phrase just makes me laugh.... :)

Thanks for that...even though you probably weren't intending to be funny... :)

Haribol!I was intending to be funny :)

And to sleeping Jiva, thanks for sharing your struggles, remember though, that all our struggles are not some serious battle, oh my god, I have to defeat some demons instead, like my teacher Ram Dass says your neurotic stuff is like little fuzz balls that come for tea, just see them, offer them some tea and some compassion, and they will do what they are meant to...

It's is all krishna's lila, a cosmic joke! The divine comedy

I still stand by what my deep inner heart has told me, sex and sexuality is a beautiful thing, it can be an expression of divine love, whether with another person or through self masterbation, and the danger in it, is being attached, letting it rule your life, using it for dark purposes and other such things! That's what the spiritual teachings are saying, don't get caught in it...

THe really funny thing, is that none of us are caught in anything, we just have to realize it. :)

Hare krishna!

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-06-2004, 04:53 AM

But devotional service has no end and no beginning. Even if u chant few times in this lifetime, it can save u and u'll be carrying on in the next one. Everything related to Krishna is like that -it's transcendental. Krishna's power is so vast that just by chanting His names ur life changes and you're more lucky, more happy, what to speak of Krishna Himself. So all those things: prasada, Deities, Bhagavadgita, and all other books, even discussing Krishna on this thread is non-different from Krishna Himself. If u want to know Krishna these will help you. haribol! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
I very much agree with you. Well said.

I really can't relate with you, sleeping jiva, or you, gangaprince, about your experiences...I've never had sex or drugs and have only had a sip here or there of alcohol (and may I just say I don't understand why so many people adore it...everything I've ever tried from my dad is absolutely disgusting...maybe its an aquired taste...I'll just say I don't think I'll be a drinker anytime soon http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif )...but despite my inexperience (or maybe the fact that I'm just sheltered ::shrug:http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif I understand what you are both saying...so thanks for sharing...

And GangaPrince...glad to know you were being funny.....I'm glad it just wasn't something that amused my demented sense of humour...hehehe

Hare Krishna!

gdkumar

09-06-2004, 01:16 PM

Hare Krishna !

Today, 6th. September, is Janmashtami. Today baby Gopal came to us.

It was so nice to read Jiva,BBB, GanjaPrince and SGBeauty. Thank you.

The old adage says, 'As you sow, so you reap.' As you desire so you get.

If we want Him and Him alone and start remembering Him at all times through the process of Chanting, Dhyana, seva, etc. We get Him only. When sincere chanting starts the wind of Grace starts blowing and the 'Fall' sets in our spiritual-body-tree . All the leaves of all desires start slowly drying up and one after another they all leave the body-tree. The leaves die but not the body. The body lives on taking the bare minimum for survival. If the chanting stops, mind goes to another subject of thoughts, the season changes for the body and all new tender leaves of desires show up again. So, we need to keep remembering and loving Him alone at all times.

Fire of any kind can not be extinguished by putting oil into it, we need to cool it down by some means and need to separate the medium and oxygen(Required for the fire). Spiritually, the fire of desire of any type can only be extinguished by chanting His name. We do not understand how it works because it works very slowly. But suddenly one day you find how much you have changed. There is no alternative - habit and only habit to attain Vairagya(Renunciation in the mind) is the solution. Habit of chanting to bring the wind of Grace and Fall. Just a few start chanting with love for Him in his heart, but if it is continued sincerely as a habit with the intention of attainig Him, love slowly and surely starts pouring in. Jagai & Madhai asked Mahaprabhu, "We are sinners, we do not have any love, how can we chant His name ?" Lord Chaitanya said,"How many do it with love! you start, with His name love will automatically come."

With the age impotence comes but the desire does not go, where do we go and what do we do then? Acid, poison become stronger and stronger in dose and type but fail to take effect, where do we then go? Be dependent on one thing to another! Life is so short! We know the great singer of Bengali devotional songs who eventually went on to taking snake bite on his tongue!
We can depend surely on one thing only and that is Him, His name(Thanks to BBB's post). This addiction never decays and nothing can be more than this. Even a simple flash of His light makes you so happy, even a momentary samadhi gives you the bliss(Ecstasy!) that a thousand perfect conjugal orgasms can not give you.

As Sri Krishnaprem said that "He is the concrete of all concretes", I do not have any doubt 'now' that it is really so. Sri Krishnaprem said His feet are more real than ours, it must be. I remember in 1981, my Gurudev, after initiating me, said, "Touch the legs and feet of Lord Krishna (On the altar this deity of naughty Krishna, after driving people crazy, came to my Gurudev's ashram and finally quietened down, that is another story.), it is as real and soft as yours." I did touch and unfortunately that day I did not feel and realize the truth. Today I have just come to know, feel and understand that it is He alone who is surrounding me.

He shall take care of anybody who sincerely loves Him. He is the most compassionate and He promised to us that " My devotee never perishes." Paths followed may be different, shorter or longer - straight or zigzag - smooth or full of hindrances, eventually will take one to Him.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

gdkumar

09-06-2004, 02:26 PM

gdkumar

09-06-2004, 02:50 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

It is true for everybody that when you read something for more than once you get to understand the meaning and subtlety better. That is why we should read the Gita over and over again. We should read afresh if possible everyday at least one chapter. The
meaning changes and you get to the right one easily. Simplicity is the best quality that one can have and you are not lacking at all in that. He is more easily understood by the simple mind.

And regarding your last post I have only to say that do not bother much about so many things. Just genuinely love Him, remember Him at all times, He shall take care of you in everything .

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-06-2004, 05:49 PM

Dear Kumar,

Thank you for your kind posts. Yes, it does seam that no matter what the day brings if you just love Him and surrender to His names...then everything turns out right. :)

To you all, Happy Janmashtami! :) I hope you all have a wonderful day (as always of course)....
--------
Yasoda-mata's voice was faltering in joy. She could not speak anything and was simply shedding tears of love. Up until that day she had only looked at the sons of others. Today she was looking at her own son. Tears poured from her eyes and milk flowed from her breasts. Her whole sari became completely soaked. Again and again Yasoda-mata looked at the beautiful lotus-like, moon-like face of her son. All the nurses, gopas, and gopis awoke, hearing the crying sound of the newly born child. Everyone came and said, 'Oh, it's not a daughter, it's a son! Yasoda has given birth to a son!'

Everyone was very happy and blissful. It was as if all of Gokul, Vrajabhumi, had drowned in an ocean of blissfulness. All the gopas and gopis came running to Nanda Maharaja's quarters to see Yasoda's newly born son. The demigods were dancing in the heavenly planets, beating drums and singing, 'Hari Hari Hari-bolo! Hari-bolo! Hari-bolo! Hari-bolo!'

In the heavenly planets the deva-naris, the wives of the demigods, were showering flowers. All the gopas and gopis were dancing blissfully. Embracing one another with love and affection, they were all drowning in an ocean of happiness."

Srila Gour Govinda Swami...Mathura Meets Vrindavana, Chapter 1
--------------
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare! :) :)

BlackBillBlake

09-06-2004, 06:20 PM

Hare Krishna !

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would just like to say that recently, a new book has come out, published by the Society for Evolutionary Research (Paris) 'Sri Aurobindo to Dilip' - a collection of letters on yoga etc. I'm not sure if it can be ordered online, but I will find out.
Hare Kishna! .........................BlackBillBlake.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear BlackBillBlake,

Thank you for your kind post.

That should be a good book. There are other ones(Given below) which combine all three great Yogis(Rishi Aurobindo, Yogi Krishnaprem and Dadaji). Sri Aurobindo wrote more than thousand letters to Dadaji. You can also look for the following books:

1. Pilgrims of the stars by Sri Dilip Kumar Roy and Ma Indira Devi.
2. Yogi Krishnaprem by Sri Dilip Kumar Roy.
3. Sri Aurobindo came to me by Sri Dilip Kumar Roy.
4. Among the Great by Sri Dilip Kumar Roy.

If you can not find them I promise to send them to you when I am back in Kolkata after about seven months. I am scheduled to leave Calcutta for France(Dunkirk) on Wednesday (08.09.04) sometime around 1400 Hrs local time(IST).

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love

Kumar.

Dear Kumar,

Thanks for the earlier post! I enjoyed it so much. And you are right - if we just go on chanting and repeating His Names that will change us. Even at times when we may feel that no progress is being made, if we go on with sincerity and aspiration we will see the results eventually!
I love your image of Grace and Fall - and how the new shoots of desire will appear if we become distracted from our Sadhana. That is a great image!
I will look out for the books you have kindly listed - although I have a great deal of un-read material at present.
On the subject of Sri Aurobindo, I have recently been reading online a fascinating set of conversations between Him and Pavitra, a disciple of many years and high attainment. With your deep and wide knowledge you are probably aware of these conversations, but here is a link

http://www.searchforlight.org/lotusgroove/Pavitra/Pavitra1969.htm

Will you be away from the forums whilst you're in France? I do hope not, as I would miss your prescence and your posts to this thread!

Do have a safe journey, and may His Grace continue to light your way.

Hare Krishna!

Love,

BBB.

BlackBillBlake

09-06-2004, 07:27 PM

I was intending to be funny :)

And to sleeping Jiva, thanks for sharing your struggles, remember though, that all our struggles are not some serious battle, oh my god, I have to defeat some demons instead, like my teacher Ram Dass says your neurotic stuff is like little fuzz balls that come for tea, just see them, offer them some tea and some compassion, and they will do what they are meant to...

It's is all krishna's lila, a cosmic joke! The divine comedy

I still stand by what my deep inner heart has told me, sex and sexuality is a beautiful thing, it can be an expression of divine love, whether with another person or through self masterbation, and the danger in it, is being attached, letting it rule your life, using it for dark purposes and other such things! That's what the spiritual teachings are saying, don't get caught in it...

THe really funny thing, is that none of us are caught in anything, we just have to realize it. :)

Hare krishna!
Dear Prince,

I would have replied before but I thought from your previous post you might not be around the forums to read it:)
I'm not trying at all to put you down personally - I know that you'll understand that, and I am not saying that sex is not or cannot be a very nice thing! In the experience of the average person, it is probably about the highest they ever get! But nontheless, it remains a fleeting and temporary thing in itself, whilst occupying a huge amount of attention in terms of time spent thinking about it and everything connected with it. This is time that isn't being spent in thinking of God, doing japa and so on. It can become a huge distraction, and for most, that's what it is - far from helping them to get closer to God, it takes up their time and attention, leaving no space for the Divine to enter.
In India, there is the idea that one can have the life of a married housholder, and part of the duties of this is seen as having children, and a nice family life, which is SO important for the young. Sri Ramakrishna said that one can practice yoga and remain a householder, as you say, it's a matter of not becoming attatched. But that really all means sex aimed at procreation, not just for pleasure.
I am familiar with tantric teachings of the varma-marg, and many years ago, for some time I fell under the influence of the English occultist, Aliester Crowley, who as you are no doubt aware preached a message of 'sex-magic', do what you will etc. (I never went into any of this in terms of actual practice). However, some very powerful, and one very hellish experience made me reconsider, and I now have very little time for any ideas that sex is or can be made into, a path to the Divine.
It is as Sweet Mother says in the piece I posted earlier - it means in effect trying to see one's partner as an embodiment of the Divine, but who is there who can truly be that? Who will not break, as Mother put it?
In the case of Crowley, all his women, and indeed men, 'broke'.
Thats why I advised Jiva to see sex just as sex - if you feel no call to give it up, then just enjoy it as such - offer it to God, with thanks! That though is not the tantric thing. And one day, you're ideas may change.
Pot is ok for some imho - if it takes you to a spiritual place - and you say with you it does - But it doesn't do this for the majority of users - and I have known very many of such over thirty years.
I say just carry on chanting His Names with love! Please don't feel offended, and please don't think I'm preaching at you in the 'moralist' sense - it is not a question of conventional morality or prudishness!

Hare Krishna!

Love,

BBB.

gdkumar

09-07-2004, 10:00 AM

Hare Krishna !

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On the subject of Sri Aurobindo, I have recently been reading online a fascinating set of conversations between Him and Pavitra, a disciple of many years and high attainment. With your deep and wide knowledge you are probably aware of these conversations, but here is a link

http://www.searchforlight.org/lotus...Pavitra1969.htm (http://www.searchforlight.org/lotusgroove/Pavitra/Pavitra1969.htm)

Will you be away from the forums whilst you're in France? I do hope not, as I would miss your prescence and your posts to this thread!

Do have a safe journey, and may His Grace continue to light your way.

Hare Krishna!

Love,

BBB.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear BlackBillBlake,

Thank you for your kind and beautiful post.

No, I did not know about Pavitra except the mention of his name at a few places. But thank you for that wonderful link, now I know a bit about him. It is so nice and informative.

There is some confusion going on about the date of my departure but as of now I should leave on 8.9.04. I shall, hopefully, be able to keep in touch through cyber-cafe, though it may not at all be regular.

I sincerely hope that the good work of Krishna seva will continue under voluntary stewardship of all of you. And I am sure it is very difficult to get a better rudder than you for this Hare-Krishna-thread-ship(Of course, He is the navigator). I have no doubt that this thread is serving His purpose only and undoubtedly so many others will be benefitted like me.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love, best wishes and regards,

Kumar.

gdkumar

09-07-2004, 12:38 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear ChiefCowpie,

Where are you?

Did not hear from you for quite some time. Hope, you are keeping well. Well, I just wanted to say goodbye for now. Henceforth, for about seven months I may not be able to be in touch with the forum.

I am sure with the contribution of your profound knowledge and insight this thread will keep growing further and be a thread of refuge and solace for so many distressed souls like me.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love, best wishes and regards,

Kumar.

gdkumar

09-07-2004, 01:47 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear Sleepingjiva,

Well, it is time to say goodbye for now. I shall join regularly after about seven months.

Your last posts re-established your dry honesty and open mindedness. I suppose you were undoubtedly the best chosen to start this thread.

People talk about addiction, it will be such a great problem for me to leave this thread and go away even for a while - such is the addiction that this has created in me. Of course it is only because of the core of the thread that is Lord Sri Krishna, our beloved God.

I am sure, this thread has already set so many people to a halt from the daily mad-rush and rethink about their priorities of life. I am sure so many are already giving a try to check the authenticity of what all have been said so far. We do not realize that when we say some thing to some people, words travel to each one of them with a different meaning and the words strike them in different modes and degrees. Here is a true story :

There was a rich King(Zemindar-a landlord). One day, in the morning, he went out with his people for hunting. It became noon when he along with his people decided to have lunch and take rest by the side of the bank of a river. A farmer also came there to have his lunch and take rest. The King and his people soon fell fast asleep after the lunch. The farmer's daughter as a daily routine had brought lunch box for her father and left.
Her father also fell asleep. That day she came back quite late to wake up her father and to take back the lunch box. She called loudly, "Baba, O baba, please get up, the day is almost gone,the sun is setting and it is getting dark. Please get up, won't you finish your jobs?" The farmer got up and hurriedly started for his unfinished job. The King and his people also woke up. But those words came as arrows and carried different meanings altogether for the King. He started thinking my life is coming to an end, soon the dark period of my life will start but so far I have not done anything to make my living this life significant and all my jobs are pending. The king was pestered by those few words over and over again. He went back to his palace, renounced every thing that he had and went out the same night looking for a Guru.

Yes, brother Jiva, this thread is undoubtedly doing Krishna-seva, it is helping and inspiring people at so many places of this world. Please keep the good job on. Please welcome one and all who come to this thread. Please remember a fisher-man can not live in a florist's room and vice-versa. Things will automatically separate out.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love, best wishes and regards,

Kumar.

ChiefCowpie

09-07-2004, 03:47 PM

http://www.sathyasai.org/images/krishna.jpg

WISHING ALL A HAPPY
http://www.gauranga.org/images/janmastami.jpg

am still around...just busy

peace out...Hare Krishna, Chief

gdkumar

09-07-2004, 05:52 PM

Hare Krishna !

My dear lord, I have never seen anything so beautiful ! Thank you ChiefCowpie.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

gdkumar

09-07-2004, 06:38 PM

Hare Krishna !

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

Thank you for your beautiful post on Janmashtami.

I just wanted to say goodbye to all. I shall be back again to the thread after seven months. Please continue the good job(Krishna-seva) just the way you are already doing.
One simple thought expressed by a simple line can cause upheaval in our mind and can set us on the right course towards Him. I am sure, this thread is going to continue by His Divine Grace for a very very long time.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-07-2004, 08:51 PM

Dear Kumar,

I wish you all the best with your job. You will be missed around here, I'm very sure.... :)

ChiefCowPie, thanks for that wonderful picture; it is truly beautiful!

Also, Happy Srila Prabhupada Day (I don't know what else you would call Srila Prabhupada's appearance day in a greeting...)! May we always remember His Divine Grace in our hearts. :) Jaya Prabhupada!

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-07-2004, 09:05 PM

I recieved this in my e-mail from my friend Prtha Deva Dasi:

--------

Yes, the day right after Janmastami is Srila Prabhupada's Appearance
Day. Here's a little about him.

Srila Prabhupada's left India in 1965 to come to the West and spread
Krishna consciousness. No one in India would consider preaching to
us "mleccas" But Prabhuapda did. He withstood two heart attacks on a
ship over here, and took many risks, depending on Krishna.

So before Prabhupada, maybe a handful came here, possibly starting
one or two small temple or even some impersonalist groups, but no one
clarified it is Krishna who is the One God everyone worships
(knowingly and often unknowingly). And no one made devotees of
Krishna Personified. We in the West were still left in the darkness
of ignorance about Who God is. It wasn't until Srila Prabhupada that
people became Krishna bhakta's (devotees) and learned the practice of
Bhakti yoga, rekindling their dormant relationship with Him.

In time Prabhupada opened many temples worldwide. This is due to
empowerment of Krishna, and to the mercy of the pure devotee. It's
even said that Prabhupada was sent by God to fulfill the prophecy of
Lord Caitanya, Who foretold that one day a pure devotee would spread
the Holy Names of Lord Krishna all over the world. Not even another
Vaisnava has done this. We are fortunate to be born now!

Read about various devotees experiences with Srila Prabhupada here:

http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com (http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com)
----------

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare!

BlackBillBlake

09-07-2004, 10:30 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear Freinds,

To Kumar - I hope you will be able to stay in touch whilst you're away, I'm sure we are all enriched so much by your posts here - and I for one look forward to your return!:)
Thanks to Chief Cowpie for the beautiful picture of Sri Krishna, and to Svg Gdn Beauty for the post about Srila Prabhupada's coming to the west. As our freind Kumar reminds us, it's all serving Him! And that is a great thing:)

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya!

BlackBillBlake

09-07-2004, 11:30 PM

Hare Krishna!

Following on from Kumar's recent post about Krishnaprem and Dilip Kumar Roy, I would like to offer this

Dilip K. Roy would often exchange his views and thoughts on spiritual matters with an English gentleman called Krishnaprem, who resided in Almora. After sending him one such letter, he received a reply which ran thus…

***

Faith and Optimism

“About ‘faith and optimism’ – well, you know who it is that rushes in where angels fear to tread. But still one fool may, I suppose, open his heart to another. Why do you worry over what you can’t accept in your friend Staunch’s robust faith? As I see it, it is not his faith which is the difficulty but the particular mental concepts in which he expressed it. True faith is naked. It is not belief in this or that: it has little, if anything, to do with ‘this or that’. It is a naked smokeless flame that burns in the secret recesses of the heart, weaving the soul and lightening it on its path. The true content of the Flame we cannot formulate in the mind and so we cover it with a painted lampshade and say we believe in this or that, the figures which our minds have painted on the shade. And that does not matter provided we really don't believe that the painted figures are the content of our Faith. They are symbols of it, for even the mind cannot draw a single line arbitrarily but they share in the mind’s error and inadequacy.

“It is this that causes the rationalist to curse so. He is always active demolishing the painted figures of men’s faith and then is astonished to find the faith still there clothed in new figure: ‘Nainam chhindanti shastrani.’

“I have looked in when the weather was darkest and this is what I saw:

“I saw the deep undertone of thwarted desire running fiercely in the psychic sea. I saw it rise to the surface in great waves and the ship of the mind, with cables cut, running before the dark wind. I saw the crew, their fears transformed into panic anger by the contact of the angry waves, seizing axes and hacking away at cordage and masts. I saw them aim their blows at the wonderful compass glowing with light in the centre of the ship but though they destroyed the card they could not touch the luminous needle. Finally they grew berserk and slashed away at the very timbers of the ship and when it sank they floundered in the water cursing and sobbing. And still the compass shone, a needle of flame poised serenely in the dark void above the waters. And when they saw that, they swam towards it and laid hold of it and then I saw that there around them was the ship once more, with all its masts and timbers intact and the dark storm had receded again far beneath the surface of a summer sea. But shame was in the hearts of the crew.

“We should not be worried by the optimist pessimist-business. Optimism is the disposition to think that our wishes will be realized and pessimism the disposition to think that most probably they will not. Neither of them is at all relevant. Not our wishes but Krishna’s will is what matters – and that will be realized, make no mistake about that. How and when is known to Him – not to us.

“This famous civilization of ours and all its treasures of art and literature and science may vanish as did that of Atlantis and yet nothing will have gone, for He is there and all is in Him. As Christ said to the Jews, proud of their descent from Abraham: “I tell you, God, is able to raise up from these stones seed unto Abraham.”

Pralaya-payadhi-jale dhritavanasi vedam

Vihita-vihitra-charitamakhedam

Keshavadhrita-mina sharira

Jaya Jagadisha Hare

This, duly sent up to Gurudev (Sri Aurobindo), elicited the following comment:

“As for faith, Krishnaprem’s meaning is clear enough. Faith in the spiritual sense is not a mental belief which can waver and change. It can wear that form in the mind, but that belief is not the faith itself, it is only the external form. Just as the body, the external form, can change but the spirit remains the same, so it is here. Faith is a certitude in the soul which does not depend on reasoning, on this or that mental idea, on circumstances, on this and that passing condition of the mind or the vital or the body. It may be hidden, eclipsed, may even seem quenched, but it appears again after the storm or the eclipse; it is seen burning still in the soul when one has thought that it was extinguished forever. The mind may be a shifting sea of doubts and yet that faith may be there within and, if so, it will keep even the doubt-racked mind in the way so that it goes on in spite of itself towards its destined goal. Faith is a spiritual certitude of the spiritual, the divine, the soul’s ideal, something that clings to that even when it is not fulfilled in life, even when the immediate facts or the persistent circumstances seem to deny it. This is a common experience in the life of the human being; if it were not so, man would be a plaything of a changing mind or a sport of circumstances. I have, I think, more than once, written the same thing as Krishnaprem though in a different language.

“If you understand this and keep it in mind, Krishnaprem’s experience and the image in which he saw it should be sufficiently clear. The needle is this power in the soul and the card with its directions the guiding indications given by it to the mind and life. The ship is the psychological structure of ideas, beliefs, spiritual and psychic experiences, the whole building of the inner life in which one moves onward in the voyage towards the goal. When the storm comes, a storm of doubts, failures, disappointments, adverse circumstances and what not, the crew – let us say, the powers of the mind and vital and the physical consciousness – begin to disbelieve, despond, stand aghast at the contradiction between our hopes and beliefs and the present facts and they even turn in their rage of disbelief and despair to deny and destroy the structure of their inner thought and life which was bearing on them, tear up even the compass which was their help and guide, even to reject the needle, the great contrast in their spirit. But when they have come to the point of drowning, that power acts on them, they turn to it instinctively for refuge and then suddenly they find all cleared,all the destruction was their own illusory action and the ship reappears as strong as before. This is an experience which most seekers have had many times, especially in the earlier or middle course of their sadhana. All that has been done seems to be undone, then suddenly or slowly the storm passes, the constant needle reappears; it may even be that ship which was a small sloop or at most a schooner or a frigate becomes an armed cruiser and finally a great battleship unsinkable and indestructible. That is a parable but its meaning should be quite intelligible, and it is a pragmatic fact of spiritual experience. I may add that this inmost faith or fixed needle of spiritual aspiration may be there without one’s clearly knowing it; one may think that one has only beliefs, propensities, a yearning in the heart or a vital preference which seem to be temporarily destroyed or suspended, yet the hidden constant remains, resumes its action, keeps us on a way and carries us through. It can be said of it in the words of the Gita that even a little of this delivers us from great danger, carries us to the other side of all difficulties, sarva durgani.”

Hare Krishna!

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-08-2004, 02:36 AM

Wow. That was really amazing. Thank you for sharing that BBB. I'm defenetely going to save that. :)

Hare Krishna!

Liberation

09-08-2004, 03:32 AM

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-08-2004, 04:02 AM

BlackBillBlake

09-08-2004, 01:27 PM

It is only when we know how to love each other that there can be co-operation, that there can be intelligent functioning, a coming together over any question. Only then is it possible to find out what God is, what truth is. Now, we are trying to find truth through intellect, through imitation - which is idolatry. Only when you discard completely, through understanding, the whole structure of the self, can that which is eternal, timeless, immeasurable, come into being. You cannot go to it; it comes to you.

-j krish
Hare Krishna!

Thanks for your post Liberation. What you say is true, but consider this - in Krishna Consciousness we seek to 'find out God' through love.To love Krishna, who is the complete whole, is to love all, to serve Him is to be a servant to all.
The false ego has to be discarded - the true Self or Atman or Soul is eternal. It is not that we will at some future time cease to be individuals, but we will be aware of who we really are - spiritual beings in relation to God.
All this, as you indicate, is wholly dependent on God's Grace.

Haribol!

sleeping jiva

09-09-2004, 02:56 AM

Hare Krishna gdkumar, I wish u bonne voyage! :) We're with u.

BlackBillBlake

09-09-2004, 12:00 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear Freinds,
I'd like to post here these lyrics by George Harrison as I feel they are relevant to some of the topics, sex, alchohol etc. that we've been discussing . Taken from the 'Dark Horse' album.

"Simply Shady"

Somebody brought the juicer

I thought I'd take a sip

Came off the rails so crazy

My senses took a dip

Before the bottle hit the floor

And I'd had time to think

I was blinded by desire

The elephant turned pink

The rest is simply shady

It's all been done before

But it doesn't make life simple

That's for sure

You may think about a lady

Cause yourself a minor war

And your life won't be so easy anymore

No sooner had I sown it

When I began to reap

I was torn from shallow water

And plunged into the deep

And as I started drowning

I clung onto a straw

That somehow kept me floating

While my madness craved for more

The rest is simply shady

It's all been done and more

But it doesn't make life easy

That's for sure

A pebble in the ocean

Must cause some kind of stir

And witnessed by the silence

Will reach from here to there

The action that I've started

Sometime I'll have to face

My influence in motion

Rebounding back through space

The rest is simply shady

It's all been done before

But it doesn't make life simple

That's for sure

You may think of Sexy Sadie

Let her in through your front door

And your life won't be so easy anymore.

Haribol!

BlackBillBlake

09-09-2004, 12:35 PM

Hare Krishna!

The First Western Vaishnava

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BY SWAMI B.V. PARIVRAJAK

EDITORIAL, Oct 17 (VNN) — In his book, Sri Krishna Samhita, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur mentioned a scholar, a certain Mr. Norton, who had written something in appreciation of the madhurya rasa as preached by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. The Thakur praised the scholar and remarked that he was confident that very soon the mellows of madhurya rasa would cross the boundaries of India and many people in the Western countries would turn into Vaishnavas followers of Mahaprabhu.

We do not have any other details about Mr. Norton, if he was himself a Vaishnava or just an Indologist or a philosopher. Surely he had not been chosen by the Lord to reveal the Vrindavan mellows to the Western world. That task, everyone agrees, was left to A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. However, some fifty years before the divine exploit of Srila Prabhupada, by the arrangement of the Lord, a Western sadhu had already come to Vrindavan. His name was Swami Krishna Prema. He was the first Vaishnava from the West, so his case is worth our consideration. His name for the world was Ronald Nixon, a former fighter pilot in the British Royal Flying Corps. Fascinated by the Pali language and Buddhism, at the end of his Cambridge studies, he wanted to find some way of living in India in order to deepen his practice of Buddhism from experienced gurus. In this way, in the early 1920s he accepted a post as Reader in English at Lucknow University. The university's vice-chancellor Dr. Chakravarti, member of the Theosophical Society, kept Nixon in his home, helping him to quickly integrate within the Indian community.

Chakravarti's wife, Monica, was spiritually very advanced. Impressed by her devotion, Nixon accepted initiation from her in 1924. His name became Sri Krishna Prema. Few years later the chancellor, acting as his wife's guru, released her from family ties initiating her into the renounced order of life with the name Yashoda Ma. At Almora in Northern Uttar Pradesh, she built an ashram by the name Uttar Vrindavan. Even if Yashoda Ma was certainly his diksha-guru, Krishna Prema desired to improve his understanding of the Gaudiya siddhanta through a more traditional preceptor. They moved then to Vrindavan where, after several weeks of research, they came in touch with Bal Goswami, a well-known priest of the Radha- raman Temple. Krishna Prema wanted a connection with him, but he had already accepted diksha mantra from Yashoda Ma.

With her consensus it was arranged that Yashoda Ma would first take initiation from Bal Goswami and, as part of the same ceremony, she would formally initiate Krishna Prema into the Gaudiya sampradaya. In this way Bal Goswami became Krishna Prema's param guru and spiritual instructor. Shortly thereafter, Bal Goswami introduced Krishna Prema, the first Western Vaishnava, into the Radharaman Mandir.

The guru had hard times with the temple authorities, who excommunicated him because, according to them, the rules of purity had been violated. This may sound now an extremely conservative attitude, but we should keep in mind that that was the first case of a Westerner turning into a Vaishnava.

At that time the position of Bal Goswami became very precarious. He had accepted a Westerner into the fold of his disciples, and the Westerners (especially the British) were known for their unclean habits, like eating meat, drinking alcohol and above all for being non-Hindus. Obviously Bal Goswami risked his reputation in his attempt to help Swami Krishna Prema.

After some time, by the mercy of Sri Radharaman Dev, another council with all the priests was held in the temple. After due consultation of the Scriptures, the council reached a solution for the case: "Every individual with the required standards of knowledge and cleanliness can be accepted into the sampradaya."In this way all Western Vaishnavas owe a debt of gratitude to both Swami Krishna Prema and Bal Goswami. Swami Krishna Prema was undoubtedly the most important historical precedent for the Western Vaishnavas.

His fame spread far and wide and many Indians accepted him as their guru. Many spiritual leaders went to visit the ashram at Almora to talk with Swami Krishna Prema, who became famous for his philosophical acumen, his rigid adherence to the principles of ashram life and his affectionate dealings towards all.

After Yashoda Ma's death, he took over her ashram until his own demise in 1965. His funeral rites were attended by a large crowd of people and the President of India sent a heartfelt message of condolence to the bhaktas of Almora praising the brilliant personality of Swami Krishna Prema. Some books on his life and teachings have been written recently by Dilip Kumar Roy (Yogi Sri Krishnaprem, 1968) and Narendranath Kaul (Writings of Sri Krishna Prem,1980).

Haribol!

ChiefCowpie

09-10-2004, 02:36 PM

thanks BBB for the story of Sri Krishna Prem

http://www.dancingmango.com/The_trip/images/agra/sadhus.jpg

chant Hare Krishna and be happy!!!

BlackBillBlake

09-11-2004, 12:54 PM

Thanks Chief - Like the article says, Sri Krishnaprem should have a special place in our hearts. Is that him in the photo you posted? (I've never seen a picture of him before)

Hare Krishna!

ChiefCowpie

09-11-2004, 02:15 PM

no, it is not him... those are just some very happy sadhus of Vrindaban

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-12-2004, 08:07 AM

I was at my friend Ryan's and we were playing music and I was looking at his bookshelf...and I spotted a familiar face...it was Srila Prabhupada! So I looked at the small book called Search For Liberation and it had a picture of Srila Prabhupada and John Lennon on it (Its the entire conversation that they put a piece of in the Chant and Be Happy Book). I asked him where he got it and he said, "::shrug:: I don't know...it was my Dad's...he bought it sometime in the sixties...you want to borrow it?" So, now I'm reading this book...and I was wondering, have any of you heard of it? I figure he probably got it from a devotee on the street...seeing John Lennon on the cover (his Dad's a big Beatles fan...and I'm 90% sure that's probably why he bought it...)...

But anyway, that's about it...I felt like sharing :)

BlackBillBlake

09-12-2004, 03:01 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear SGB,
I used to have a copy of that - I bought mine in about 1982-3 - can't recall what happened to it now - I think I lent it to someone and that was that! But I don't think it's available anymore.

Haribol!

BlackBillBlake

09-12-2004, 03:28 PM

This is from a conversation between George Harrison, Srila Prabhupada and Syamasundara.

Conversation with George Harrison

at Bhaktivedanta Manor, 1973

Syamasundara: Anyway, the translation is, "Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues."

Prabhupada: So this is your duty now. (laughs) By the grace of Krsna you are one of the great men. Although you are young man, but Krsna has placed you in such a high position that there are many young men who follows you. So that is the instruction.

George: There is some? You know, Syamasundara and I were talking just on the way here, and it's like when you commit yourself to something, in a way it's like putting your head on the chopping block. Because people, you know, somebody can turn around and chop it off or it may be lucky and, you know, it doesn't get chopped off.

Prabhupada: No, it is not chopping off.

George: I find that this, um, the more commitment that you make, or that I make, even though it's such a little commitment, I mean, relatively speaking it's such a little one. Now I'm getting in the area where I find that people are? It provokes, um?

Prabhupada: Thoughts.

George: Well, sometimes it provokes bad reaction.

Prabhupada: Accha?

Syamasundara: Sometimes people become agitated by his words.

Prabhupada: Oh. Murkhaya upadeso hi prakopaya santaya. There is a verse that if one is foolish, if you give him good instruction he becomes angry. Just like the example is given, payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam. If you keep a snake and if you give him milk the result will be that his poison will be increased. Payah-panam bhujanganam kevalam visa-vardhanam. So sometimes it happens that ah, if one is foolish, if you give him good advice he becomes angry. Murkhaya upadeso hi prakopaya santaya. But, has it happened like that? No, I don't think so.

George: I, you know, you can feel, I can feel a little animosity comes from people who, I don't know for what reason, but people?

Syamasundara: Envious maybe.

Prabhupada: Envious.

George: I don't know which is, in some ways the more committed you are to the thing and the stronger that you are in what you do then the stronger the animosity becomes.

Prabhupada: Yes, the other side.

George: And I'm not sure if? You know, sometimes I get the feeling that maybe there's one person who it means something real to and ten people who it doesn't mean anything to. And I'm not sure how it, if it all balances out in the end whether...

Syamasundara: Well, that one person though, if you reach one person he is worth all of them.

George: But say you don't reach any people, and then you have a choice of reaching people and you only reach one, but in, by reaching that one you have twenty people who are annoyed. You know, how do you??

Prabhupada: Yes, sometimes it happens.

Syamasundara: His question is that if you preach and you see many men, you meet many men. You may make? If you meet ten men you may make nine of them enemies and only one will become helped by your preaching. So how is that?

George: But if you don't say anything then maybe with all the ten of them are quite friendly.

Syamasundara: Is that? How is that beneficial?

Prabhupada: Yes, the preaching is different, you see. When one preaches he must tell the truth. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. The people did not like his preaching but he did not stop his preaching. That is another point. You see? So in the preaching propaganda there is possibility of creating animosity.

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-12-2004, 03:37 PM

Dear BBB,

Thanks for that...I've read it once before...but its always good to read these things again...it seams you always get something new every time...

I agree with George...its hard to tell people because sometimes it feels like its not worth it to have people annoyed by you...I think that perhaps there's a time and a place to tell...you know?

BlackBillBlake

09-12-2004, 03:55 PM

Dear BBB,

I agree with George...its hard to tell people because sometimes it feels like its not worth it to have people annoyed by you...I think that perhaps there's a time and a place to tell...you know?
Hare Krishna!

Dear SGB,

Yes, it can be difficult trying to tell people about Krishna and spread the spiritual message, and I'm sure you are right in saying there is a time and place. Sometimes people can react in a very negative way - but I think that shows how insecure material consciousness really is - somehow, they feel threatened by Krishna, they think that He wants to take away their pleasures and so on. But of course, all that is only relativistic, and what folks are afraid to 'loose' is only passing and temporary conditional 'pleasure'. With God, one can experience the true Divine Ananda or bliss.
But we can only go on trying in whatever small ways we can!

Haribol!

Love,

bbb.

GanjaPrince

09-13-2004, 12:04 AM

sleeping jiva

09-13-2004, 02:46 AM

U can never know if your compromising is not a maya. Devotee should be fearless and tell the message of Bhagavadgita even to his enemy. Maybe you think people are not ready to hear about Krishna, but that can be only your fear to tell them. I don't think Prabhupada ever stopped preaching about Krishna. Whatever he said it was about Krishna and in relation to Krishna. The trick is to tell people from their perspective, you have to listen where they are, who they are and start preaching accordingly. Let's say you talk about vegetarianism, u can mention that we r not our bodies and every living being is a spirit soul. And the Supreme soul is Krishna. Always try to get to Krishna as soon as possible. People tend to confuse you with material duality, they make you explain things on dualistic platform, good-bad, me-universe. That leads nowhere. We cannot understand dual world, becuz we are eternal, we r not in duality. Duality is of our material body. We r trying to make oneness from dualistic material world. We want eternity from temporal world. Therefore try to explain things on absolute platform. Krishna. One. We r parts and parcels of Krishna.

Of course sometimes it's better to be silent and not waste energy on those whom only goal is to bring you back to maya. In fact we r giving compassion only if we can.

sleeping jiva

09-13-2004, 02:50 AM

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-13-2004, 04:35 AM

SvgGrdBeauty: I heard the conversation on recording, but I couldn't understand everything. What if you scaned it? That be great. I remember Prabhupada got a little bit angry. John was like a little boy. He seemed like totally hopeless hiding behind a mask. When you listen to the recording, Prabhupada starts singing in the begining and I think there's nobody else in a room, so you can feel what a blast it must've been. Intimidating, hahaha. I wish I could see their faces.John and George, during the book so far, seam very confused...they're still getting over the fact that the Maharashi (sp?) turned out to be ingenuine...and you can tell that they are not fast to trust anyone right away...Yoko was very argumentive with Srila Prabhupada...she kept interupting him...

I could try and scan it...I don't think my friend is interested with how long I have it..as long as he gets it back because its his dad's...I tried to explain to him what it was about and urge him to read it... but it went in one ear and out the other...but I expected that from him.....even if he was interested....he'd never let me know...

GangaPrince...thank you for your post....I think that you are right....it seams that if we can not preach with our words...preach with our actions (isn't that a cliche? Actions speak louder than words)...and I think it pisses off less people (people always get funny when you talk about God)

BlackBillBlake

09-13-2004, 12:19 PM

The real preaching in not in your words, but in your vibrations, in your being, are you flowing with Krishna's love? are your serving your brothers and sisters? are you filled with the joy? are you filled with bliss and ecstasy?

Every moment you are a statement of your entire being. The real communication is in the vibes and in the acts that you do.
Hare Krishna!

Dear Ganja Prince,

Thanks for that - it's very true that words are not enough, but here, we have to use words to communicate.An intellectual knowledge of God with no realization is not enough, but hearing about Krishna is the first step.
That's true where ordinary words are concerned - they are limited artifices, but in the case of the Maha-Mantra and other Vedic Mantras these are not ordinary words, but transcendental sound vibrations. Chanting Krishna's Names is the way to become filled with love for Him and for others and with the Divine Ananda.
But of course, it goes beyond words! We can show to others through our actions that we are sincere, and if we are filled with love and bliss, this will come through without need for talk.

Haribol!

BlackBillBlake

09-13-2004, 12:31 PM

U can never know if your compromising is not a maya. Devotee should be fearless and tell the message of Bhagavadgita even to his enemy.
Of course sometimes it's better to be silent and not waste energy on those whom only goal is to bring you back to maya. In fact we r giving compassion only if we can.
Hare Krishna!

Dear Jiva,

There seems to be a contradiction in there!

Haribol!

sleeping jiva

09-13-2004, 07:15 PM

in fact it is. that is our material world. contradiction. Two things. haha. therefore chant this :

BlackBillBlake

09-13-2004, 09:54 PM

Hare Krishna!

Here is a short quote from Sri Aurobindo I'd like to share with everyone

Sri Krishna and Radha.

Krishna with Radha is the symbol of the Divine Love. The flute is the call of the Divine Love.

Radha is the personification of the absolute love for the Divine, total and integral in all parts of the being from the highest spiritual to the physical, bringing the absolute self-giving and total consecration of all the being and calling down into the body and the most material nature the supreme Ananda.

...the image of Krishna and Radha. ..has nothing to do with sex. The true symbol for it would not be the human sex-attraction, but the soul, the psychic, hearing the call of the Divine and flowering into the complete love and surrender that brings the supreme Ananda. That is what Radha and Krishna by their divine union bring about in the human consciousness. ..

ChiefCowpie

09-13-2004, 10:16 PM

I also can share with You what I know about Lord Shiva in the form gopi. He wanted to join the rasa dance, but He was stopped, because Ha had a male body. He needed for this gopi body. He become very sad from this reason and started to meditate at the bank of Brahma-kunda crying.He wanted to become gopi, He stopped eating, sleeping, only was crying and crying. Finally srimati Vrinda-devi felt pity for him and she gave him her blessings and she said:
"Go to Mana-sarovara and take a bath there", he went there and took a bath. When he came out of water he found that his body had been transformed into gopi body- siva gopi- Gopisvara.
He was very happy and when in the night heard that Krishna was playing his flute under his Vamsi-vat tree he ran there as all other gopis did. When Krishna saw the new gopi was very pleased and was greeting her with sweet words: "O what a beautiful new gopi! Come to me! I will give You a name! After reflecting moment said: Your name will be Gopisvara"
Hearing this, Srimati Radhika, who was standing close by, became disturbed and said " What? krishna! How can You call her Gopisvara? That is my name! I am Gopisvara I am the most important gopi! But now You call her gopisvara?
Krishna tried to pacify Her, saying " Don't worry, this is very special gopi, but Radhika still felt disturbed.
After a short time of rasa dancing another difficulty appeared. Lord Shiva keeps a snake aroun his neck, his guru, whom he will never leave. and even with his gopi body he was carrying his guru in form of snake around his neck, what was very impractical for dancing.
Krishna after the first such experience of dancing with gopi with the snake aroud her neck said"Please come Gopisvara, I have a special service for You. You will go to the entrance of rasa dance. I will put You in charge of protecting it from all disturbances. This will be Your service. Make sure that no unqualified person enters."

So Gopisvara is protecting the rasa dance and according to the scriptures no one can enter the rasa dance without the blessing of Gopisvara, who is protector. All the great vaisnavas are praying to Gopisvara Mahadeva because without mercy of him no one can reach lotus feet in Vrindavan to enter this transcendental lila.

Yours servant
Ramapriya dd

sleeping jiva

09-14-2004, 12:52 AM

Prabhupada: Anyway, this kind of literature... Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu used to read Gita-Govinda, Candidasa, amongst with His confidential devotees. The Gita-Govinda, the loving affairs of Radha and Krsna, it is not for the neophyte student. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu... You'll find Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaching... Generally, He was talking with Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, He was talking with Prakasananda Sarasvati, He was talking with Ramananda Raya -- but the subject matter was not the same. When He was talking officially with the Prakasananda Sarasvati, Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, there is no talk about Krsna's pastimes with Radharani. Simply on the basis of Vedanta He was talking. But when He was talking with Ramananda Raya, He talked about Krsna's pastimes with Radharani. So we should be very careful that from the very beginning... Just like the professional Bhagavata readers. The Bhagavata reading means describing rasa-lila. Whenever you find there is Bhagavata reading, they are describing. I have seen one big Gosvami. He was professional Bhagavata reader, and whenever... He would speak very nicely on rasa-lila, and after describing rasa-lila, Bhagavata reading, he would come for recreation and smoke cigarette. I have seen it.
So this kind of Bhagavata reading will not help you. Bhaktih paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra syat: [SB 11.2.42] "If you are actually advancing in devotional service, then the symptom will be that you'll have no more material hankerings." That is real. So if you actually hear about Krsna's pastimes with Radharani, then hrd-roga-kaman apahinoti, then our heart disease, lusty desires, will vanish. That is the result. I have repeatedly said. So if you become more lusty by seeing the pastimes of Krsna with Radharani or hearing, that means you are not fit. Stop it. Stop it. Don't be foolish. So in the spiritual platform, the everything are there, but they are different in quality. Just like iron is also metal and gold is also metal, but the quality is different; similarly, don't take that Krsna's loving affairs with Radharani is exactly like our loving affair with our girlfriend. No. It is not like that. One is gold, and one is iron. Don't minimize the value. Therefore Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami has described that it is ahladini-saktih. Radha-krsna-pranaya-vikrtir hladini-saktih.

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-14-2004, 02:01 AM

Thanks SleepingJiva, CheifCowPie, and BlackBillBlake! Some of that stuff I did know about Radhe and Krishna and some of it I didn't (like about Lord Siva becoming gopi)....I do love the stories of the gopis...they are just lovely...thank you for that absolutely lovely break from my homework. :) Hare Krishna! :)

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-14-2004, 10:04 PM

I saw this on a quotes list:

"Look beyond the face and you will see Me." - Krishna to Sita in "The Last Vampire" by Christopher Pike

Has anyone ever heard of this book, or know what it may have to do with Krishna?

BlackBillBlake

09-15-2004, 12:54 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear SGB,

My daughter used to be a major fan of Christopher Pike when she was in her early teens - I believe his books are 'stephen king for teens' if you see what I mean. I will be seing her over the next couple of days and I will ask her about this particular book.

Love,

BBB.

BlackBillBlake

09-15-2004, 11:18 PM

No luck - she did have it but can't remember it, and it's long gone:)

Hare Krishna!

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-16-2004, 02:38 AM

No luck - she did have it but can't remember it, and it's long gone:)

Hare Krishna!
Hey, thanks for trying anyway...

:) Stephan King for kids...doesn't sound too much my thing...Anne Rice is the closest I get to that stuff...but she's different...

...my new thing, after Autobiography of a Yogi (which is AMAZING), is some Shakespeare for English...I love Shakespeare :)

sleeping jiva

09-16-2004, 05:56 AM

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-16-2004, 06:12 AM

I feel great, I started playing in metro (subway) in montreal again and I chanted mantra for a while from full of my lungs, I started laughing in the middle of it, that powerful it was. I don't sing it for long just for about 5 minutes in a row as a part of one song, but I never forget and at least I do some sankirtana. I go play everyday. isn't it cool?
Hey its awesome that you started up again! I hope that's going well for you. :) I liked that one clip of it you sent me :)

BlackBillBlake

09-16-2004, 01:35 PM

Hey, thanks for trying anyway...

:) Stephan King for kids...doesn't sound too much my thing...Anne Rice is the closest I get to that stuff...but she's different...

...my new thing, after Autobiography of a Yogi (which is AMAZING), is some Shakespeare for English...I love Shakespeare :)Hare Krishna!

Dear SGB,

Glad to hear you've read 'Autobiography of a Yogi' - it is a great book.
Shakespeare is perhaps the greatest writer in the english language - but there's not much that's really spiritual in his work - it is all IMHO on the human level.But the language, the poetry is wonderful.
:)
The only poem that really surpasses Shakespeare written originally in english is Sri Aurobindo's epic 'Savitri' - that is, once again in my opinion.

BlackBillBlake

09-16-2004, 01:40 PM

I feel great, I started playing in metro (subway) in montreal again and I chanted mantra for a while from full of my lungs, I started laughing in the middle of it, that powerful it was. I don't sing it for long just for about 5 minutes in a row as a part of one song, but I never forget and at least I do some sankirtana. I go play everyday. isn't it cool?
Hare Krishna!

Dear Sleeping Jiva,

I think it is absolutely great that you are doing this!!
The Maha-Mantra is so powerful that even hearing it just once can change someone's life - even if not now, then in time.
Please - do go on :)

Haribol!

BlackBillBlake

09-16-2004, 01:50 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear Freinds - If anyone is looking for a truly inspiring read, and if you've not read it before, I would highly recommend Sri Ramakrishna Kathamrita - it is the record of many meetings and conversations between Thakur and others written down by a devotee, Mahendranath Gupta. The first two volumes can be found online at

http://www.kathamrita.org/kathamrita.htm

Haribol!

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-16-2004, 09:36 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear SGB,

Glad to hear you've read 'Autobiography of a Yogi' - it is a great book.
Shakespeare is perhaps the greatest writer in the english language - but there's not much that's really spiritual in his work - it is all IMHO on the human level.But the language, the poetry is wonderful.
:)
The only poem that really surpasses Shakespeare written originally in english is Sri Aurobindo's epic 'Savitri' - that is, once again in my opinion.
It is an amazing book...I have about 200 pages left...

I think that Shakespeare could be indirectly spiritual...you know? It deals with a lot of morals of humanity... I've heard the Tempest perhaps has some spiritual value...

I'll tell you about Hamlet and King Lear (which I just recieved today)...if I can draw something ;)...I did it with Lord of the Flies and The Thebian Trilogy in my summer journal...so I'll see if I can find something from Shakespeare...

ChiefCowpie

09-16-2004, 11:58 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-45-1095221370.jpg (http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=24175)

--------------------

kalashodadhi sampado bhavatyaah karuNe sanmati mantha samskrataayaah
amritaamshamavaimi divya deham mrita sanjeevana manjanaachalendoh

By churning the ocean of Compassion, the nectar that is obtained is the divya deham of Lord Srinivasa. It is amrita because it is mrita - sanjeevanam (restores the dead to life).

BlackBillBlake

09-17-2004, 11:34 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear Devotees Prabhus Freinds and Onlookers - some time ago as you may recall we were discussing the question of devotion - bhakti - and knowledge of God - jnana. In this context I would like to quote this verse from the Bhagavatam which seems to me to settle the matter conclusively.........

"By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world."

(Srimad-bhagavatam 1.2.7)

Haribol!

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-17-2004, 11:36 PM

BlackBillBlake

09-18-2004, 12:07 AM

Hare Krishna!

The pic is Sri Sukadeva reciting the Srimad Bhagavatam to Maharaja Pariksit and the assembled sages. Sri Shukadeva is said to have recieved it from his father, Vyasadeva, who in turn heard it from Narada Muni. Narada brought it from the spiritual world.
In the Bhagavatam Maharaja Pariksit is cursed to die in seven days - he sits down on the river bank, and a group of the great yogis and sages gather around him..............here is a short quote from the Bhagavatam.

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.19.23 - The King said: O great sages, you have all very kindly assembled here, having come from all parts of the universe. You are all as good as supreme knowledge personified, who resides in the planet above the three worlds [Satyaloka]. Consequently you are naturally inclined to do good to others, and but for this you have no interest, either in this life or in the next.
SB 1.19.24: O trustworthy brāhmaṇas, I now ask you about my immediate duty. Please, after proper deliberation, tell me of the unalloyed duty of everyone in all circumstances, and specifically of those who are just about to die.

SB 1.19.25: At that moment there appeared the powerful son of Vyāsadeva, who traveled over the earth disinterested and satisfied with himself. He did not manifest any symptoms of belonging to any social order or status of life. He was surrounded with women and children, and he dressed as if others had neglected him.

SB 1.19.26: This son of Vyāsadeva was only sixteen years old. His legs, hands, thighs, arms, shoulders, forehead and the other parts of his body were all delicately formed. His eyes were beautifully wide, and his nose and ears were highly raised. He had a very attractive face, and his neck was well formed and beautiful like a conchshell.

SB 1.19.27: His collarbone was fleshy, his chest broad and thick, his navel deep and his abdomen beautifully striped. His arms were long, and curly hair was strewn over his beautiful face. He was naked, and the hue of his body reflected that of Lord Kṛṣṇa (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/k/krsna).

SB 1.19.28 He was blackish and very beautiful due to his youth. Because of the glamor of his body and his attractive smiles, he was pleasing to women. Though he tried to cover his natural glories, the great sages present there were all expert in the art of physiognomy, and so they honored him by rising from their seats.

SB 1.19.29: Mahārāja (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/m/maharaja) Parīkṣit (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/p/pariksit), who is also known as Viṣṇurāta [one who is always protected by Viṣṇu (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/v/visnu)], bowed his head to receive the chief guest, Śukadeva (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/sukadeva) Gosvāmī. At that time all the ignorant women and boys ceased following Śrīla (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/srila) Śukadeva (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/sukadeva). Receiving respect from all, Śukadeva (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/sukadeva) Gosvāmī took his exalted seat.

SB 1.19.30: Śukadeva (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/sukadeva) Gosvāmī was then surrounded by saintly sages and demigods just as the moon is surrounded by stars, planets and other heavenly bodies. His presence was gorgeous, and he was respected by all.

SB 1.19.31: The sage Śrī (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/sri) Śukadeva (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/sukadeva) Gosvāmī sat perfectly pacified, intelligent and ready to answer any question without hesitation. The great devotee, Mahārāja (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/m/maharaja) Parīkṣit (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/p/pariksit), approached him, offered his respects by bowing before him, and politely inquired with sweet words and folded hands.

SB 1.19.32: The fortunate King Parīkṣit (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/p/pariksit) said: O brāhmaṇa (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/b/brahmana), by your mercy only, you have sanctified us, making us like unto places of pilgrimage, all by your presence here as my guest. By your mercy, we, who are but unworthy royalty, become eligible to serve the devotee.

SB 1.19.33: Simply by our remembering you, our houses become instantly sanctified. And what to speak of seeing you, touching you, washing your holy feet and offering you a seat in our home?

SB 1.19.34: Just as the atheist cannot remain in the presence of the Personality of Godhead, so also the invulnerable sins of a man are immediately vanquished in your presence, O saint! O great mystic!

SB 1.19.35: Lord Kṛṣṇa (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/k/krsna), the Personality of Godhead, who is very dear to the sons of King Pāṇḍu (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/p/pandu), has accepted me as one of those relatives just to please His great cousins and brothers.

SB 1.19.36: Otherwise [without being inspired by Lord Kṛṣṇa (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/k/krsna)] how is it that you have voluntarily appeared here, though you are moving incognito to the common man and are not visible to us who are on the verge of death?

SB 1.19.37: You are the spiritual master of great saints and devotees. I am therefore begging you to show the way of perfection for all persons, and especially for one who is about to die.

SB 1.19.38: Please let me know what a man should hear, chant, remember and worship, and also what he should not do. Please explain all this to me.

SB 1.19.39: O powerful brāhmaṇa (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/b/brahmana), it is said that you hardly stay in the houses of men long enough to milk a cow.

SB 1.19.40: Śrī (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/sri) Sūta (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/suta) Gosvāmī said: The King thus spoke and questioned the sage, using sweet language. Then the great and powerful personality, the son of Vyāsadeva, who knew the principles of religion, began his reply.

sleeping jiva

09-18-2004, 07:36 AM

hahaha. Have u ever seen Woody allen's "Hannah and Her Sisters"? There r Hare Krishnas dancing in it and chanting mahamantra. I was watching the movie and it was like a flash from a sky. I automatically started nodding my head in a rhythm. Haha. Woody Allen's character was looking for God. THe devotee gave him a print of Bhagavadgita and then he said something like oh no, who am I kiddin? am i supposed to become Krishna and offer books at the airports? lol I found it very cool. Especially those devotees, who danced like crazies. And the melody of mahamantra was the same as Prabhupada used to sing. I found it very cool.

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-18-2004, 03:35 PM

" The Volturous And The Virtuous "

Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 7.1
Atlanta, March 1, 1975

listen (http://prabhupadavani.org/Caitanya_Caritamrta/RamFiles/CC18.ram)

Nitai: "Let me first offer my respectful obeisances unto Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is the ultimate goal of life for one bereft of all possessions in this material world and is the only meaning for one advancing in spiritual life. Thus let me write about His magnanimous contribution of devotional service in love of God."

Prabhupada:

agaty-eka-gatim natva
hinarthadhika-sadhakam
sri-caitanyam likhyate 'sya
prema-bhakti-vadanyata
[Cc. Adi 7.1]

So Krsna dasa Kaviraja Gosvami is writing Caitanya-caritamrta. In each chapter he composes a new verse offering his obeisances to the Lord. So in this Seventh Chapter of Adi-lila he also offers his respect. He began his writing of Caitanya-caritamrta when he was as old as ninety years old in Vrndavana by the order of the Vaisnavas and confirmed by Sri Madana-mohana. So this is the process. One should not be writing in spiritual subject matter without being authorized by some superior authority. It is not ordinary writing. The writing on spiritual subject matter is authoritative. By the order of superior authority, one can write. It is not speculation. Therefore he said that sri-caitanyam likhyate asya: "By the order of superior authority, I am trying to describe Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu." And what is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Prema-bhakti-vadanyata. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is preaching prema, means love of Godhead. That is the only necessity to understand in human form of life. Prema pumartho mahan.

There are other necessities for those who are not devotees. Those necessities are dharma artha kama moksa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Adi 1.90]. Generally, in the material world everyone has necessity of gratifying his senses. So sometimes, under the cover of religiosity, they want to satisfy senses. The same thing... Just like one goes to church or temple to mitigate some material necessities. Just like the Christians go to the church for meeting the problems of bread; similarly, the Hindus or the Muslim, everyone goes to church, temple or mosque to pray something material: "God, I am very distressed. Kindly get me relief from this distressed condition." Or "God, I am in need of money, I am very poor. Kindly give me some money." Or any other, "I am now implicated in war." Just like Churchill, he introduced that everyone should go and pray for victory. So England was also praying for victory, and Germany was also praying for victory. So (chuckles) God is perplexed. (laughter) The thief is praying to God that "This night, I may steal without any hindrances." And the householder is praying, "My Lord, thief may not come here and steal my goods." And God has to adjust everything. So just imagine how much busy is God. There are millions and trillions of living entities. Each one of them, if they are at all interested in God -- not all -- so they are praying. Everyone is praying, "God, give me this benediction. Give me this benediction." So this is not pure devotional service. For some material profit, one should not become a religious person or devotee of God. Of course, it is better than the person who is not at all interested in God. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, catur-vidha bhajante mam sukrtinah arjuna. Unless one is pious, he cannot approach God.

So one should be pious and without any motive, not only pious. Pious is the first condition, who can approach God; otherwise he does not. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg. 7.15]. These classes of men, duskrtina, miscreants, always committing sinful activities, duskrtina; and mudha, rascals, fools; and naradhamah, lowest of the mankind; mayayapahrta-jnana, whose knowledge has been taken away by maya -- such demonic person do not surrender to God. But pious man who has got background, pious activities, such person, when they are distressed, they approach God. They know that God is friend of all living entities. Suhrdam sarva-bhutanam [Bg. 5.29]. Actually, He is the friend. As friend, He is living with the soul as Supersoul. That is stated in the Vedas, that two birds are sitting on the same tree. The tree, this is the tree. This body is tree, and one bird is the individual soul, and the other bird is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Supersoul. So God is always accompanying the individual soul to turn him back to home, back to Godhead. He is so nice friend. Suhrdam sarva-bhutanam. So if we want peace, then we should understand that "Here is my friend, the supreme friend." Suhrdam sarva-bhutanam. "He is guiding me. So why I am praying to Him for some benefit? He knows my necessities. He will supply if it is required. Why shall I bother Him with prayers granting something, 'Please give me this, give me this'?" There is no necessity. God is omniscient. He knows. And He says in the Bhagavad-gita that "I know the necessities of My devotee, and I supply them." Yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Two things are there: one thing, to possess something which we do not have; and we want to protect what we have got. So Krsna says, "Both the things... I give protection of My devotee, whatever he has got, and I supply him whatever he hasn't got." Yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. He is supplying everyone, but especially to the devotees. That is his special job.

Here Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is very, very magnanimous. He is, without asking, He is offering the best benefit, Krsna-prema. So best objective... Our objective, of life should be to understand God. If we, in this life, if we simply understand what is God and what is my relationship with, and begin to act like that, then also our life is successful. Even if we cannot finish the whole job or we fall down from the platform of devotional service, still, we are not loser. Tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer patet tato yadi bhajann apakvah atha [SB 1.5.17]. This devotional service is the process. Requires some time to fulfill the whole job and become perfect. But even becoming..., before becoming perfect, one falls down, he is not loser. The service is so transcendental that whatever you have done, that is your asset. And if you stop, so that is not good, but even if you stop, whatever you have done already, that is your permanent asset. This is the benefit of devotional service. Material thing, if you cannot do it perfectly well, whatever you have done, that is all lost. But in spiritual, whatever you have done, one percent, two percent, three percent, as you have done, that is not lost. Therefore the sastra says that those who are not devotees, what is their profit? Even they are doing their duties very nicely, what is the profit? Because he remains under the stringent laws of nature. Suppose this life I have done my duty as a politician very nicely, but the next life I become a dog. Then what is the benefit? What is the benefit? To become next life as a dog or god, that will not depend on you; that will depend on the nature. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. It is being automatically done. Two plus two equal to four. Similarly, whatever we are doing, we are preparing for the next life. Karmana. Simply material nature has to give you a post: "Now you have done like this. Take this post." You cannot deny. You cannot say, "No, no, I don't like this post." No, you have to take it. So for the karmis, even they have done their so-called duties very perfectly well, what is the profit? There is no profit, because we are under the control of material nature. But the devotees, whatever little service they have done, that is permanent asset. That is not controlled by nature. That is controlled by God.

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-18-2004, 03:35 PM

And He says in the Bhagavad-gita, yoga-bhrastah sanjayate. Sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrastah sanjayate [Bg. 6.41]. Bhrastah means one who is fallen from this devotional service. So for them also, it is guaranteed a human life. Not only human life, but in very good family. Sucinam srimatam gehe. Sucinam means by perfectly well behaved, cleansed family, brahmana family. Sucinam. Suci means very clean. So you are becoming all brahmanas. You must remain always very clean. Sucinam, that is called suci. And muci means unclean, cobbler. Suci and muci. So don't become muci. (laughter) Yes. Uncleanliness is muci, cobbler. They are dealing always with skin, and bad smell, and no bathing. So in our country, muci, the cobbler, is taken as the lowest of the mankind, naradhamah, because their business is when the cow dies, so the mucis are prepared to take away the dead cow or bull. They eat the flesh, and they take out the skin and the bones for their business. Muci prepare shoes. He gets the skin for nothing, without any payment. He doesn't have to invest his capital, and he nicely cleanses it, tans, and then prepares shoes and sell in the market. So get the money. And the muci class, they eat this flesh, meat. But they are given the opportunity when the cow is dead, not by slaughterhouse. That is not in the Vedic scripture. The dead animal, you can eat. Those who are fond of eating fish and meat, they can eat when the animal is dead. Not killing. That is not very good thing. So the muci class, their business is to take the dead... After all, everyone will die. The animal will die also. Even if we keep the cows, don't kill, it will die. So some cow is dying here, some cow is dying there. Just like the vulture, they eat dead body. So dead body must be there. So they have no scarcity of dead bodies. They can find out dead body. They go three miles above to find out where is the dead body. So that is also sense gratification. So in this way there are classes, suci and muci. Suci is the first-class, cleansed internally and externally human being, and the muci means the low class, very unclean, eating the dead meat, cows and bulls. So Krsna says, "Even one is fallen, he gets his birth in the family of suci." Sucinam. Just like in our society there are small children. You see their behavior. They are coming, offering flower, offering obeisances. That means they are not ordinary children. They have got the opportunity to take birth in the family of Vaisnava, father Vaisnava, mother Vaisnava. And he is getting the opportunity of Krsna consciousness from the very beginning of life. This is called sucinam srimatam gehe [Bg. 6.41].

So if one is fallen from devotional service, he is offered again the opportunity to take birth in the human society. And not only ordinary human being, but devotee, very cleansed, or, next to that, very rich family. These are the two opportunities for the fallen devotees, and what to speak of those who are not fallen. Just imagine. Those who are not fallen, they go directly. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. Immediately they are transferred to the spiritual world after giving up this body. And those who are fallen, they are not immediately transferred, but they are given the chance again for developing Krsna consciousness and being transferred, transferred to the spiritual world, because one who takes birth in the family of Vaisnava and pure brahmana, he gets the chance again. Just like these children are getting chance again -- deity worship, offering to the Vaisnava obeisances, offering some flower, dancing, chanting. He is again getting the opportunity. Although he was fallen in his last birth, that fallen is not so serious. He has got again human body, and he has got chance to be associate with this Krsna consciousness movement. And rich man. Rich man means... Everyone is embarrassed with the maintenance of body. So if one is not embarrassed... To take birth in rich family means he has nothing to think of maintenance. Just like one of our devotee, Mr. Alfred Ford, he is the great-grandson of Mr. Henry Ford. He has given us one big house in Honolulu. The boy came to see me, very nice boy. So this is srimatam gehe, born in rich family, and he has got the opportunity to give something for the service of the Lord. So either you are born in rich family or in poor Vaisnava family, you are not loser. So we should take to Krsna consciousness and try to introduce it very nicely, and even though we fall, there is no loss. The human life is guaranteed and in very good family. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita.

So here it is said, hinarthadhika-sadhakam sri-caitanyam. [break] Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is very kind to the fallen souls. His special mission is to reclaim the fallen souls. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. Reclaim the fallen souls means in this age of Kali, almost 99.9%, they are all fallen. Their qualification is mandah. Mandah means they do not know that the human life is meant for qualifying oneself in Krsna consciousness, spiritual consciousness. They do not know. Mandah sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. Even one is interested about spiritual consciousness, they accept some bogus theory. So many yogis, swamis, all bluffer, they will take care. Mandah sumanda-matayo. Because Kali-yuga, they are already sophisticated, bewildered, and these people come to cheat, they fall the prey of these cheaters. Sumanda-matayo. Anyone who is preaching something else other than God consciousness, he is a cheater. He is a cheater. Sumanda-matayo. Because real progress of life is to become God conscious. That is the real progress. And without God consciousness, the so-called yogis, so-called meditation... What is this meditation? What is the profit? Simply some bogus propaganda. It has no value. Real progress of life is to know what is God and what is my relationship with Him and how to act in that relationship. That is real life. But they do not know it. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know it. They think, "By this yoga practice, I shall be perfect, my material condition will be improved," and so on, so on. They have got their own theories and... But that is not progress of life. There are many rich men, many karmis. Without practicing yoga, they are having material comforts. So spiritual life does not mean that one is improved in material, conditioned life. Spiritual life means spiritual advancement. But people take it that "Take to religion means to give impetus to our material life." Dharma artha kama moksa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Adi 1.90]. And when they are disgusted, they want moksa. Moksa means to become one with the Lord. So these things are going on. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to save all these fallen souls. Hinartha. Hinarthadhika-sadhakam. The more one is fallen, he is the better candidate for accepting the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Narottama dasa Thakura sings, patita-pavana-hetu, tava avatara: "My Lord, You have incarnated to reclaim the fallen." Patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara, mo sama patita prabhu, na paibe ara: "If that is Your mission, then I am the most fallen. So my claim is first to receive Your favor because Your mission is to show favor to the fallen. So I am the most fallen. So kindly accept me." In this way he has sung. And that is stated here, hinarthadhika-sadhakam sri-caitanyam.

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-18-2004, 03:36 PM

So (readinghttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif "A person in the conditional stage of material existence is in an atmosphere of helplessness. But the conditioned soul, under the illusion of maya or the external energy, thinks that he is completely protected by his country, society, friendship and love, not knowing that at the time of death none of these can save him." This is called maya. But he does not believe. Under the illusion of maya, he does not also believe that what is the meaning of saving. Saving. Saving means saving oneself from this repetition, cycle of birth and death. That is real saving. But they do not know. (readinghttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif "The laws of material nature are so strong that none of our material possessions can save us from the cruel hands of death." Everyone knows it. And that is our real problem. Who is not afraid of death? Everyone is afraid of death. Why? Because any living entity, he is not meant for dying. He is eternal; therefore birth, death, old age and disease, these things are botheration for him. Because he is eternal, he does not take birth, na jayate, and one who does not take birth, he has no death also, na mriyate kadacit. This is our actual position. Therefore we are afraid of death. That is our natural inclination.

So to save us from death... That is the first business of humankind. We are teaching this Krsna consciousness movement for this purpose only. That should be the purpose of everyone. That is the sastric injunction. Those who are guardians... The government, the father, the teacher, they are guardians of the children. They should know it, how to give protection to the world's... Na mocayed yah samupeta mrtyum. So where is this philosophy all, over the world? There is no such philosophy. This is the only, Krsna consciousness movement, which is putting forward this philosophy, not whimsically but from authorized sastra, Vedic literature, authorities. So that is our request. We are opening different centers all over the world for the benefit of the human society that they do not know the aim of life, they do not know that there is next life after death. These things they do not know. So we are trying to educate them that "There is next life undoubtedly, and you can prepare your next life in this life. You can go to the higher planetary system for better comfort, material comfort. You can remain here in a secure position." Secure means this material life. Just like it is said,

yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah
bhutani yanti bhutejya
mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam
[Bg. 9.25]

So you can prepare yourself for better life in the heavenly planets or in a better society in this world or to go to the planets where ghost and other wretches are controlling. Or you can go to the planet where Krsna is there. Everything is open to you. Yanti bhutejya bhutani mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam. Simply you have to prepare yourself. Just like in youth life they are educated -- somebody is going to be engineer, somebody is going to be medical man, somebody is going to be lawyer and many other professional man -- and they are preparing by education, similarly, you can prepare for your next life. This is not difficult to understand.

But they do not believe in the next life, although it is very common sense. Actually there is next life because Krsna says, and we can understand the philosophy by a little intelligence that there is next life. So our proposition is that "If you have got to prepare yourself for the next life, then why don't you take the trouble of preparing for going back to home, back to Godhead?" This is our proposition. You can prepare yourself to go to hell or heaven. That doesn't matter because that is also temporary. Ksine punye punar martya-lokam visanti. After you have finished... Just like you may go to jail or to somewhere else. When your visa or time is finished, then you are free from such life. Similarly, even if we go to the heavenly planet, when the resultant action of our pious activities are finished, then again we are turned down here. So in this way sometimes higher planetary, sometimes lower planetary, we are traveling. Therefore our best business is: "Why not go back to home, back to Godhead?" Krsna says, mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam: [Bg. 9.25] "Anyone who is Krsna conscious, he comes to Me." So why not go to Krsna? Then the question will be: "What is the benefit of going to Krsnaloka? What is the difference between going to heavenly planet or any other planet and going to Krsna?" The difference is, any planet go, you are under the four material regulation, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi: [Bg. 13.9] birth, death, old age and disease. But if you go to Krsna... Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama [Bg. 15.6]. If you go to Krsna, then you don't get any more chance to come down and take a material body. You can live there eternally blissful life of knowledge. That is the difference.

So any intelligent man should take to Krsna consciousness, cultivate the Krsna conscious business and go back to home, back to Godhead, for eternal life. This mission we are preaching all over the world because Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted it. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted to deliver the fallen souls from the clutches of maya and take them back to home, back to Godhead. As Krsna came, He also... His mission was this. Bahavo jnana-tapasa puta mad-bhavam adigacchati. Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama [Bg. 15.6]. He is also giving information, "You come to Me. Live there eternally, with bliss and knowledge. Why you are rotting in this material world?" So Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has come with the same mission. His mission is not different from Krsna because He is Krsna Himself. So His mission is to offer prema, bhakti. Prema-bhakti-vadanyata. That is His magnanimity. Sri Krsna did not offer prema. That is also prema, the preliminary condition. He said surrender. Surrender means beginning of prema. Unless I have got love for you, why shall I surrender to you? So that is the beginning of love, surrender. So He demanded so much. But Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is so kind and magnanimous that in course of His chanting and dancing, He embraced everyone and gave him Krsna-prema. That is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's magnanimity. Therefore Srila Rupa Gosvami has offered his prayer to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, namo maha-vadanyaya krsna-prema-pradaya te: [Cc. Madhya 19.53] "People cannot understand Krsna, and You are giving love of Krsna." If you don't know anybody, how you can develop love for him? So just imagine how much magnanimous is Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He is giving such a nice process, that chant Hare Krsna, be purified -- immediately you become free from this material bondage and begin your loving service to Krsna. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's gift.

So therefore the author is writing that... (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.1 -- Atlanta, March 1, 1975

sleeping jiva

09-19-2004, 04:11 AM

OH! thank you , thank you very much. I read those lectures almost every day. It's so nivce to hear Prabhupada's voice. We r eternal, that's why we cry when somebody dies. If we were matter, we wouldn't care. Haribol!

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-19-2004, 09:44 AM

Hare Krishna!

http://www.krishnaculture.com/Merchant2/graphics/art/p14.jpg

http://www.krishnaculture.com/Merchant2/graphics/art/crdt.jpg
http://www.krishnaculture.com/Merchant2/graphics/art/J18S.jpg
http://www.krishnaculture.com/Merchant2/graphics/art/p25.jpg

BlackBillBlake

09-19-2004, 05:54 PM

Hare Krishna!

Dear SGB,

Thanks for the pictures - they are wonderful! And for the earlier post.

Haribol!

BlackBillBlake

09-19-2004, 10:38 PM

Hare Krishna!

King Yudhisthira's
Answers to Dharmaraja

In the great epic Mahabharata, Maharaja Yudhisthira, the son of Dharmaraja is the embodiment of all good qualities. For this reason, he is often referred to as Ajatasatru, one who has no enemies. In many conversations Yudhisthira reveals his deep understanding of the Vedic scriptures and their practical applications. One day while living in exile in the forest, Yudhisthira finds that while attempting to drink water from a lake, all his brothers have been killed by a mysterious Yaksha (a celestial entity). When Yudhisthira arrives the Yaksha challenges him to answer all his questions or else face the same consequences as his brothers. These questions-answers are like Vedic sutras, short, pithy and practical and deal with piety and religiosity.

Yaksha:: Who is really a helpful companion?

Yudhisthira: Steady intelligence is a very good friend and can save one from all dangers.

Yaksha: How can one acquire something very great?

Yudhisthira: Everything desirable can be attained by the performance of austerity.

Yaksha: What is amrita (nectar)?

Yudhisthira: Milk is just like nectar.

Yaksha: What is the friend bestowed upon man by the demigods?

Yudhisthira: Wife is such a friend.

Yaksha: What is the best of happiness?

Yudhisthira: True happiness comes as a result of contentment.

Yaksha: Why does one give in charity to brahmanas, artists, servants and kings?

Yudhisthira: For religious merit, prestige, maintenance and protection, respectively.

Yaksha: Why does one forsake friends?

Yudhisthira: Lust and greed drives one to forsake friends.

Yaksha: What is the only food?

Yudhisthira: The cow is the only food, for the milk that she produces is used to make ghee (clarified butter), which is used to perform sacrifices, pleased by which the demigods give rain, which causes the grains to grow. Therefore it should be understood that the cow is the root cause of all kinds of food.

Yaksha: What is the king of knowledge?

Yudhisthira: Knowledge pertaining to the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the king of all kinds of knowledge.

Yaksha: What is ignorance?

Yudhisthira: Not knowing one's constitutional duty.

Yaksha: What is the best bath?

Yudhisthira: That which cleanses the mind of all impurities.

Yaksha: What is real charity?

Yudhisthira: Real charity is protecting one from the onslaughts of material nature.

Yaksha: Since dharma (virtue), artha (profit) and kama (desire) are opposed to each other, how can they co-exist harmoniously?

Yudhisthira: These three become congenial to one another when one has a virtuous wife.

Yaksha: Who is condemned to everlasting hell?

Yudhisthira: When one promise a brahmana charity but upon his arrival refuses to give him charity.

Yaksha: What make one a brahmana, birth, learning or behavior?

Yudhisthira: It is behavior alone that make a person a brahmana. Even if one who is expert in the four Vedas, born of brahmana parents, but whose behavior is not proper should be considered a sudra.

Yaksha: Who is pleasing?

Yudhisthira: A person who speaks in a pleasing manner.

Finally the Yaksha asked Yudhisthira four questions of great significance:

Yaksha: Who is truly happy?

Yudhisthira: One who cooks his own food (is not dependant on anyone), is not a debtor (does not spend more than he can afford), does not have to leave home to make in order to earn his livelihood (does not over endeavor for material things) is truly happy.

Yaksha:What is the most wonderful thing?

Yudhisthira: The most amazing thing is that even though every day one sees countless living entities dying, he still acts and thinks as if he will live forever.

Yaksha: What is the real path to follow in this life?

Yudhisthira: The best path is to follow in the footsteps of the pure devotees, for they are the actual Mahajanas whose hearts are the sitting places of the real truths regarding religion.

Yaksha: What is news? (that is What is real situation in the material world?)

Yudhisthira: The material world is like a frying pan. The Sun is the fire, the day and nights are the fuel. The passing seasons are the stirring ladle and time is cook. All living entities are being thus fried in this pan. This is the real news of what is happening in the material world which is a miserable place full of ignorance.

These questions and answers cover a wide gamut of instructions from being successful to pious to religious. Pleased by the answers of Yudhisthira, the Yaksha who was none other than Dharmaraja (the father of Yudhisthira and the embodiment of religiosity) revives all the brothers of Yudhisthira and offers him many benedictions.

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-21-2004, 05:46 AM

A little bird told me that tomorrow is Radhastami... :) Here's a little picture (or two) in honour of Sri Sri Krishna Radhe :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/SvgGrdnBeauty/In20a20garden.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/SvgGrdnBeauty/Krishna4.jpg

sleeping jiva

09-21-2004, 07:15 AM

I like the bottom one. Hey, what should I do on these special days? I feel like sucha looser.

ChiefCowpie

09-21-2004, 02:13 PM

http://www.vrindavanart.com/image/art/radha_krishna_govardhan_rad.jpg

- Jaya Sri Radhe! -

BlackBillBlake

09-21-2004, 02:39 PM

Among all the beautiful gopis Srimati Radharani is the best. Radharani is the queen of Vrndavana. She has many famous friends, headed by Lalita and Visakha.
Sri Krsna, the cowherd prince whose charming sweetness has no equal or superior, is very dear to Srimati Radharani. She considers Him millions and millions of times more dear than Her own life's breath.

Now the beauty of Srimati Radharani's trancendental form will be described. Srimati Radharani is expert in all the fine arts and Her transcendental form is like an ocean of nectar. Her splendid bodily luster is like the yellow pigment gorocana, molten gold, or stationary lightning. She wears wonderfully beautiful blue garments and She is decorated with various pearls and flowers.

She is very beautiful and She has long nicely braided hair. She is decorated with a garland of flowers and a beautiful pearl necklace. Her splendid forehead is decorated with the red pigment sindura and with beautiful locks of curling hair.

Decorated with blue bangles, Her arms have defeated Cupid's staff with their beauty. Decorated with black mascara and reaching back almost to Her ears, Srimati Radharani's lotus eyes are the most beautiful in all the three planetary systems. Her nose is as beautiful as a sesame flower and it is nicely decorated with a pearl. She is anointed with various perfumes. She is splendidly beautiful.

Her ears are decorated with wonderful earrings and Her nectarean lips defeat the red lotus flowers. Her teeth are like a row of pearls and Her tongue is very beautiful. Decorated with a nectarean smile of pure love for Krsna, Her beautiful face is a splendid as millions of moons.

The beauty of Her chin has defeated and bewildered the demigod Cupid. Decorated with a drop of musk, Her chin appears like a golden lotus flower with a bumblebee. Bearing all the marks of wonderful beauty, Her neck is decorated with a string of pearls. Her neck, back and sides are enchantingly beautiful.

Her beautiful breasts are like two splendid waterpots covered with a bodice and decorated with a necklace of pearls. Her beautiful enchanting arms are decorated with jeweled armlets. Her arms are also decorated with jeweled bracelets and other kinds of jeweled ornaments. Her hands are like two red lotus flowers illuminated by the series of moons that are Her fingernails

Srimati Radharani's hands are decorated with many auspicious markings such as the signs of the bumblebee, lotus, crescent moon, earring, parasol, sacrificial post, conchshell, tree, flower, camara and svastika. These auspicious marks are manifest in various ways on Srimati Radharani's lotus hands. Her splendidly beautiful fingers are also decorated with jeweled rings.

Charming, full of sweet nectar and decorated with a deep navel, Srimati Radharani's beautiful waist enchants the three worlds. Her sloping hips lead to Her charmingly beautiful slender waist, which is bound by a creeper of three beautiful folds of skin and decorated with a sash of tinkling bells.

As beautiful as two exquisite plantain trees, Her thighs enchant the mind of Cupid. Her beautiful knees are like two reservoirs filled with the nectar of various transcendental pastimes. Her beautiful lotus feet are decorated with jeweled ankle-bells and Her toes with toe rings as beautiful as the treasure of Varuna. The auspicious markings on Srimati Radharani's lotus feet include the signs of the conchshell, moon, elephant, barleycorn, rod for controlling elephants, chariot flag, small drum, svastika and fish.

BlackBillBlake

09-21-2004, 02:43 PM

Yasoda-devi, the queen of the cowherds, is more affectionate to Radharani than millions of mothers can be. Radharani's father is King Vrsabhanu, who is as splendid as the sun.

Srimati Radharani's mother is Kirtida-devi, who is also known in this world as Ratnagarbha-devi. Radharani's paternal grandfather is Mahibhanu and Her maternal grandfather is Indu.

Her maternal grandmother is Mukhara-devi and Her paternal grandmother is Sukhada-devi. Her father's brothers (Her uncles) are Ratnabhanu, Subhanu and Bhanu.

Bhadrakirti, Mahakirti and Kirticandra are Radharani's materal uncles. Menaka-devi, Sasthi-devi, Gauri-devi, Dhatri-devi and Dhataki-devi are Radharani's materal aunts.

Radharani's mother's sister is Kirtimati-devi, whose husband is Kasa. Radharani's father's sister is Bhanumudra-devi, whose husband is Kusa.

Radharani's elder brother is Sridama and Her younger sister is Ananga-manjari. Radharani's father-in-law is Vrkagopa and Her brother-in-law is Durmada.

Jatila-devi is Radharani's mother-in-law and Abhimanyu is Radharani's so-called husband. Kutila-devi, who is always eager to find fault, is Radharani's sister-in-law.

Lalita, Visakha, Sucitra, Campakalata, Ranga-devi, Sudevi, Tungavidya and Indulekha are the eight dearest friends of Srimati Radharani. These gopis are considered the leaders of all the others.

Kurangaksi, Mandali, Mankiundala, Matali, Candralalita, Madhavi, Madanalasa, Manjumedha, Sasikala, Sumadhya, Madhureksana, Kamala, Kamalatika, Gunacuda, Varangada, Madhuri, Candrika, Prema-manjari, Tanumadhyama, Kandarpa-sundari and Manjukesi are among the millions of dear friends (priya-sakhi) of Srimati Radharani.

Lasika, Kelikandali, Kadambari, Sasimukhi, Candrarekha, Priyamvada, Madonmada, Madhumati, Vasanti, Kalabhasini, Ratnavali, Manimati and Karpuralatika are among those friends (jivita-sakhi) for whom Srimati Radharani is as dear as life.

Kasturi, Manojna, Manimanjari, Sindura, Candanavati, Kaumudi and Madira are among Sriamti Radharani's eternal friends (nitya-sakhi).

Ananga-manjari, Rupa-manjari, Rati-manjari, Lavanga-manjari, Raga-manjari, Rasa-manjari, Vilasa-manjari, Prema-manjari, Mani-manjari, Suvarna-manjari, Kama-manjari, Ratna-manjari, Kasturi-manjari, Gandha-manjari, Netra-manjari, Sripadma-manjari, Lila-manjari and Hema-manjari are among Srimati Radharani's manjari friends. Prema-manjari and Rati-manjari are both also known by the name Bhanumati-devi.

BlackBillBlake

09-21-2004, 02:47 PM

Srimati Radharani's worshipable deity is the sun-god, who enlivens the lotus flowers and acts as an eye for the entire world. Srimati Radharani's maha-mantra is the name of Lord Krsna. Srimati Radharani's benefactor, who brings Her all good fortune, is Bhagavati Paurnamasi.

In Radharani's garden is a vine of golden jasmine flowers that She has named Tadidvalli ("the vine of lightning"). Her private lake bears Her own name (Radha-kunda) and on the shore of that lake is a kadamba tree that is the site of very confidential talks between Her and Lord Krsna.

Her favorite ragas are mallara and dhanasri and Her favorite dances are chalikya and rudravallaki.

Srimati Radharani's glorious birth occured on the eighth day of the bright moon in the month of Bhadra. Although generally not full on that day, the moon appeared full to celebrate Radharani's appearance in this world. (SSRKGD)

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Sri Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is therefore said, sri-krsna-caitanya, radha-krsna nahe anya: "Two personalities--Srimati Radharani and Sri Krsna--are combined in the incarnation of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu." (CC Madhya 5.142-143p)

In Brhad-gautamiyatantra it is said: Sri Radha is known as Devi, Krsnamayi, Supreme Goddess in whom all Laksmis reside; Her beauty and charm defeat that of all others.

In a supplement to the Rg-veda it is said: Among all people, Radhika and Madhava together are the most beautiful. In the Matsya-purana: In Varanasi, She is known as Sri Visalaksi, and in Purusottama-ksetra, She is called Sri Vimala. In Dvaraka, She is Sri Rukmini, and as the queen of the Vrndavana forest, She is called Sri Radha.

In the Ujjvala-nilamani, a statement taken from the Padma-purana says: Just as Sri Radha is the most beloved of Sri Krsna, similarly Sri Radha-kunda is also very dear. Among all the gopis, Sri Radha is the dearest lover of Sri Krsna.

In the Radha-prakarana of Ujjvala-nilamani it is said: Sri Radhika’s body is composed of maha-bhava. The greatest of all saktis is the hladini-sakti. Therefore it is called maha-sakti. Of that, the essence is madana, which is the zenith of maha-bhava. Sri Radha is the embodiment of that highest maha-bhava. This conclusion is well established.

In the Gopalottara-tapani, She is glorified as Gandharva. This daughter of Vrsabhanu has a very beautiful form and wears 16 items of beautification (srngara) and 12 types of ornaments (abharana).

An example concerning Her beautiful form is given in Ujjvala-nîlamani, wherein Sri Krsna says, "O Radhe! The locks of Your hair curl beautifully, and You have a lotus-like face with elongated restless eyes. Your chest is adorned with lovely large and firm breasts. Your waist is attractively slender, Your head is bowed slightly in modesty, and Your fingernails are like rows of jewels. Your beautiful form is a festival of elegance and sweetness that crushes the vanity of the three worlds."

Concerning Her sixteen items of beautification, Subala says to Sri Krsna, "After bathing, Sri Radhika decorates the tip of Her nose with an effulgent jewel. She dresses in blue clothing, with a sash (nivibandhana) around Her waist. Her hair is plaited and She wears ornaments on Her ears. Her limbs are smeared with camphor, musk and sandal paste. She wears flowers in Her hair and a garland around Her neck. In Her hand She playfully carries a lotus flower. In Her mouth She has tambula, and on Her chin a dot of musk. She wears kajjala around Her eyes and on Her cheeks are muskpaintings of dolphins, etc. The bottoms of Her lotus feet are painted red and She wears tilaka on Her forehead."

Concerning Her twelve ornaments, Subala says, "Sri Radhika wears a diamond on Her head, golden earrings on Her ears, and tiny golden bells around Her hips. A golden locket hangs around Her neck. She wears a cakri-salaka (an elaborate ornament that encircles the entire ear and fastens at the top) over Her ears, bangles on Her hands, and a necklace around Her throat. There are rings on Her fingers and a group of star-like necklaces on Her bosom. She is adorned with jewelled armlets, jewelled ankle bells and radiant toe rings. She is very beautiful wearing these twelve ornaments."

BlackBillBlake

09-21-2004, 02:53 PM

Sri Radha’s age is in the middle of the kaisora period. Just as previously, Krsna’s age was increased by half again, so Radha’s age is increased to 14 years, 2 months and 15 days. She has a strong feeling that Krsna belongs to Her (madiyata-bhava), as well as madhu-sneha (a very sweet affectionate mood). Her love for Krsna is pure, powerful and lasting, and She has various kunjas for Her pastimes with Him. Her home is in Yavatagrama, Her mother’s name is Kirtida, and Her father’s Vrsabhanu. Her husband’s name is Abhimanyu, Durmukha is Her brother-in-law, Jatila is Her mother-inlaw, and Kutila is Her sister-in-law. Just as Sri Krsna always exists as the nayaka (heroic lover), Sri Radhika is forever the principal nayika (heroine).

Sri Radha’s sakhis are of five types: sakhi, nitya-sakhi, prana-sakhi, priya-sakhi, and parama-prestha-sakhi. Kusumika, Vindhya, Dhanistha and others are known as sakhis. Kasturika, Mani Manjari, etc., are known as nitya-sakhis. Sasimukhi, Vasanti, Lasika, etc., are known as prana-sakhis. These gopis usually have forms (or natures) similar to Sri Radha. Kurangaksi, Sumadhya, Madanalasa, Kamala, Madhuri, Manjukesi, Kandarpasundari, Madhavi, Malati, Kamalata and Sasikala, etc., are priya-sakhis. Lalita, Visakha, Citra, Campakalata, Tungavidya, Indulekha, Rangadevi and Sudevi are the parama-prestha-sakhis. These eight gopis are chief amongst them all. They are worthy of being yuthesvaris (group leaders) themselves, but because they love Radha so much, they would rather be Her sakhis. (SGGSP)

Jaya Sri Radhe!

ChiefCowpie

09-21-2004, 03:05 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-49-1095769850.jpg

Happy Birthday Radha!!! All that is glorious and loving and wonderful in this world, I know there you are dancing with Krishna.

BlackBillBlake

09-21-2004, 03:52 PM

I like the bottom one. Hey, what should I do on these special days? I feel like sucha looser.
Just chant and be happy! :) Think of the sublime and transcendent lila of Sri Sri Radha-Krishna!

Also, thanks to Chief Cowpie and SvgGrdnBeauty for the lovely images!

Happy Radhastami to all :) :) :)

Hare Krishna!

ChiefCowpie

09-21-2004, 06:47 PM

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/~malati/kasvit/Radha.jpg

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR RADHA!

ChiefCowpie

09-21-2004, 06:51 PM

Happy Birthday Krishna's Darling!!!

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-21-2004, 09:58 PM

BBB! Thanks for all the lovely information! I did not know some of those things about Sri Radhe... Also thank you and ChiefCowPie for the pictures! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif They are lovely! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Happy Radhastami all! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif May we all strive to love Krishna with as much devotion as Radhe for all of eternity! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-21-2004, 10:16 PM

http://www.geocities.com/priitaa/Images/Radkri5.JPG

"Radha and Krsna are one, and when Krsna desires to enjoy pleasure, He manifests Himself as Radharani. The spiritual exchange of love between Radha and Krsna is the actual display of the internal pleasure potency of Krsna. Although we speak of "when" Krsna desires, just when He did desire we cannot say. We only speak in this way because in conditioned life we take it that everything has a beginning; however, in the absolute, or spiritual, life there is neither beginning nor end. Yet in order to understand that Radha and Krsna are one and that They also become divided, the question "When?" automatically comes to mind. When Krsna desired to enjoy His pleasure potency, He manifested Himself in the separate form of Radharani, and when He wanted to understand Himself through the agency of Radha, He united with Radharani, and that unification is called Lord Caitanya." Adi, Intro- Srila Prabhupada

http://www.geocities.com/priitaa/who_is_radharani.htm

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-21-2004, 10:22 PM

http://www.geocities.com/priitaa/Images/Krsna_Gopis.jpg
Radhe Radhe Radhe Shaym Govinda Radhe Jai Sri Radhe
Radhe Radhe Radhe Shaym Govinda Radhe Jai Sri Radhe
Govinda Radhe Radhe Shaym
Gopala Radhe Radhe

ChiefCowpie

09-21-2004, 10:30 PM

http://www.dharmakshetra.com/holy%20land/LOTUS%20FOOT%20PRINTS%20OF%20RADHARANI.jpg

HAPPY BIRTHDAY RADHARANI

ChiefCowpie

09-21-2004, 10:33 PM

Jaya Sri Radhe!

Attached Image
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-49-1095797143.jpg

ChiefCowpie

09-22-2004, 12:53 AM

14) SYAMAHLADINI- She Who always gives great pleasure to Syama In many ways

Sometimes singing -- sometimes dancing
Who gives comfort and joy
to Syama by numerous fine arts

Sometimes feeding -- sometimes offering drinks
Who gives Syama a reception
by serving numerous tasty eatables

Sometimes angry -- some times smiling
Who overwhelms Syama
with sheer ecstasy
by numerous playful moods

May this SYAMAHLADINI Sri Rãdhä
kindly accept
my most humble pranäm
at Her divine lotus feet

Attached Image
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-32-1095724184.jpg

ChiefCowpie

09-22-2004, 12:56 AM

10) RUPAPLAVINI - She Whose sheer beauty inundates everyone and everything —— even beauty itself

The gently swaying nose-pearl
above Whose ruby lips
diffuses its own deep radiance

The random twinkling of diamond-like teeth
between Whose ruby lips
radiates a divinely beautiful aura

The silent dot of black musk
below Whose ruby lips
reveals a vision of Her pastimes of love

May this RUPAPLAVINI Sri Rãdha
kindly accept
my most humble pranãm
at Her divine lotus feet

Attached Image
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-32-1095721693.jpg

BlackBillBlake

09-22-2004, 01:42 AM

Radhe Krishna Radhe Krishna Radhe Krishna

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
Radhe Krishna Radhe Krishna Radhe Krishna
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Thanks to Chief Cowpie for these fabulous posts for Sri Radhastami http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

JAYA SRI RADHE JAYA SRI KRISHNA

The Steak Herbert

09-22-2004, 02:44 PM

Nannoo Nannoo. Shazbutt.

Klorb.

WELCOME TO THE STATES PEOPLES OF YOU!

ChiefCowpie

09-22-2004, 03:47 PM

A view from Radha-Gopinath Mandir at Radhakunda: Radhastami-abhishek.

Attached Image
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-49-1095858917.jpg

BlackBillBlake

09-22-2004, 11:09 PM

Hare Krishna! :)

Here are a couple of Krishna links I came across whilst looking for some stuff the other night...

http://www.galva108.org/

a site for gay people who are Vaishnavas

http://www.vaisnavi.com/

a site for women Vaishnavas.

Haribol!

ChiefCowpie

09-22-2004, 11:20 PM

More Water in Mayapur / September 19, 2004

http://www.mayapur.info/ (http://www.mayapur.info/)

Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

The only thing which is stopping the Ganga from flooding the ISKCON property is Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's road.

http://www.mayapur.info/2004/09-19-04/smaller1.jpg

http://www.mayapur.info/2004/09-19-04/smaller3.jpg

The Ganga is now sitting right on the brim of crossing the road. Ganga's current is still pushing towards the land, so there is every possibility of flooding. We have had very long breaks in power.

your servant, Vrindavan Lila Dasi

http://www.mayapur.info/2004/09-17-04/smaller1.jpg

ChiefCowpie

09-22-2004, 11:22 PM

I visited the Hare Krishna property in Mayapur a number of years ago. Its actually quite a hike from there to the Ganges and so I can imagine how serious the flooding is if the Ganges is at Bhaktisidanta Road which is at the front of Iskcon property.

ChiefCowpie

09-22-2004, 11:34 PM

26) RASAHLADINI- She Who is the pleasure of the rasa-dance

In the dancing arena
Whose golden luster
makes Syama's dark aura
all the more splendrous

In the center stage
on the dancing platform
Whose smooth gliding steps
make Syama's dancing lotus feet
all the more nimble

In the arena of ecstasy
Whose unique unparalleled joy
makes the delight of Syama
all the more intense

May this RASAHLADINI Sri Rädha
kindly accept
my most humble pranäm
at Her divine lotus feet

Attached Image
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-32-1095887895.jpg

ChiefCowpie

09-22-2004, 11:42 PM

Krsna dressed as a gopi serving Sri Kishoriji

Attached Image
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-45-1095888275.jpg

--------------------
\ ---------olo AmarA rAiera dAsI !---------- \
AmarA rAiera dAsI AmarA rAiera sevA bhAlovAsi

ChiefCowpie

09-23-2004, 02:14 AM

Balakrishna

Attached Image (Click thumbnail to expand)
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-45-1095221370.jpg (http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=24175)

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-23-2004, 03:21 AM

sleeping jiva

09-23-2004, 03:34 AM

BBB: I don't really understand the gay vaisnavas, I've checked the website and they're argumenting against Prabhupada in sucha strange way. I have a big respect for gays, I laugh at homophobes, I don't think the gays are something less, but for me if u have sex for pleasure, not for procreation, this is not a vaisnava. Of course, I must say that I'm not any better as heterosexual, lol. But isn't this something like meat-eating Hare Krishnas? If u love the same gender, it's ok, but when u want to have sex and u wanna back it up by Hare Krishna philosophy, that is funny for me. I'm not sure. I'm suspicious of people, who take Prabhupada as some imperfect man, who doesn't really know everything.

check this:

Srila Prabhupada: “If you indulge in more than necessary, then you will be impotent. This homosex is also another sign of impotency. They do not feel sex impulse to woman. They feel sex impulse in man. That means he is impotent. It is impotency. When after enjoying so many women, they become impotent, then they artificially create another sex impulse in homosex. This is the psychology. So people are degraded so much.”
(July 3, 1975, Chicago)

Srila Prabhupada: “This homosex propaganda is another side of impotency. So that is natural. If you enjoy too much, then you become impotent.”
(September 6, 1975, Vrindavan)

Comments: There is no scientific evidence to suggest, even remotely, that excessive indulgence in heterosexual intercourse will cause a person’s sexual orientation to become homosexual. Sexual orientation is much more deeply rooted than that. If such an idea were true, then the reverse situation could be applied and gay men overindulging in sex with other men could gradually develop a taste for women. As stated by the American Psychological Association, “Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience.” It is important to note that in the above quotes, Srila Prabhupada’s definition of “homosex” describes men who have previously engaged in excessive intercourse with women. This is hardly our modern understanding of exclusively homosexual or gay men, and we are therefore left to wonder what type of “homosexual” person Srila Prabhupada is referring to!

end of quote

Don't you think that Prabhupada talks about homosexuality as a karmic consequence of overindulging in hetero sex? I understood it in that way. lol. they simply made Prabhupada say something and then they argument with their own fabrication. lol. I haven't checked much of it, but I find this very fishy.

BlackBillBlake

09-23-2004, 02:18 PM

BBB: I don't really understand the gay vaisnavas, I've checked the website and they're argumenting against Prabhupada in sucha strange way. I have a big respect for gays, I laugh at homophobes, I don't think the gays are something less, but for me if u have sex for pleasure, not for procreation, this is not a vaisnava. Of course, I must say that I'm not any better as heterosexual, lol. But isn't this something like meat-eating Hare Krishnas? If u love the same gender, it's ok, but when u want to have sex and u wanna back it up by Hare Krishna philosophy, that is funny for me. I'm not sure. I'm suspicious of people, who take Prabhupada as some imperfect man, who doesn't really know everything.

.
Hare Krishna!

Dear Sleeping Jiva,

I agree that there is some question here. I am not gay myself - I posted the link because it is possible that some gay people, for whom like you I have no dislike etc. may be looking at this thread, and I feel it's important that no-one should feel excluded from Krishna Consciousness.
It's against the principles to indulge in sex simply for sense-gratification, but I'm sure many who worship Krishna do so anyway. In effect, I see little difference between hetro and homosexual where this is concerned.
Also - some lesbian and gay people may decide to become celibate, but still feel that their sexual orientation is a big element in the make-up of their personalities - so that site might help them.
I have to confess that I only gave it a cursory glance - I am not particularly an interested party here - but it may be of some use to others.
I don't feel qualified to pass judgement on others who may be very good people, just because of their sexuality - even though my own position is to support family values.
As we've discussed before, sex is not an easy thing to transcend - so I feel that we have to have much compassion and understanding of others where this is concerned, and welcome all who are interested in yoga, whatever their background, whatever the conditioning!

Haribol!

BBB.

ChiefCowpie

09-23-2004, 02:21 PM

CheifCowPie...do you have the story (tale) behind this picture? I would love to read it sometime... :)
No I don't...I found the picture without a story... maybe Krishna was being sneaky and was pretending to be a gopi???

sleeping jiva

09-23-2004, 02:37 PM

BBB: hmmmm. I agree with u , thanks for the link. Although Prabhupada always used to say that it's better to change the people than to change the principles. There's no need to attract people for every price. But if this serves as a game in order to attract gay peeps into Krishna consciousness, it's a great thing.

SvgGrdnBeauty

09-23-2004, 10:30 PM

No I don't...I found the picture without a story... maybe Krishna was being sneaky and was pretending to be a gopi???
That's what I was thinking...it made me think of the time that He stole the gopis clothes (which gave me a good chuckle...) so I figured I'd ask if that had a story too...I could imagine... hehe... I love stories about Krishna and His little games... His mischieviousness is adorable :)

BlackBillBlake

09-23-2004, 11:29 PM

Hare Kishna!

Those floods do look and sound quite serious - is it the first time its been this bad? I ask because where I live in england, we've had flooding over the past few years the like of which hasn't been seen since 19th c. And thats despite a multi-million pound dam they built in the 50's. So maybe its part of global climate change. But I do believe that whatever we humans do, Krishna will protect the earth.
I'd be interested to know what others think of this.

Haribol!

ChiefCowpie

09-25-2004, 12:53 AM

Its floods periodically in Bengal. The problem is with development and therefore increased run off of the rain water, it does appear the seasonal typhoon rains are more severe. It actually becomes a dangerous situation with snakes as they have to take shelter of roofs and homes for shelter and so one must be careful but too, Bengalis and Indians have a long history with snakes and seem to accept each others company to some degree...just check your bed before crawling into it that there aren't any snakes in it.

ChiefCowpie

09-25-2004, 12:58 AM

http://www.hknet.org.nz/vamsi_das.gif
VAMSIDAS BABAJI ( Vamsivat Babaji )

Some nectar about Vamsi dasa babaji maharaj (http://www.hknet.org.nz/parishad62.htm#nectar)
Excerpts from OBL Kapoor’s “The Saints of Bengal” (http://www.hknet.org.nz/parishad62.htm#OBL) (Srila Prabhupada's Godbros')
"You must weep for Krishna!" (http://www.hknet.org.nz/parishad62.htm#GM) by His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Maharaj of the Gaudiya math

On Janmastami he was in Baleshvar, a town in North Orissa. At midnight he said to Gopal, "Last year I gave You some palmfruit. This year I shall give You some mango. Gopal, don't be impatient, mango is coming to You." Within ten minutes a brahmana teacher called Jogendra Mukherjee arrived, explaining how he had just dreamt that a sadhu wanted a mango, so he went to the market and bought one. That brahmana was then told, "Yes, yes, you come. He said he wanted a mango." (From HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami's book on SBSST.)

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura also received the blessings of Srila Vamsidas Babaji Maharaja in Navadwip. Seeing Srila Sarasvati Thakura, Srila Varmsidasa Babaji Mahasaya would say, "Someone very close to my Gaura has come to me."

Vamsivat Babaji was a Gaudiya sadhu who lived at Swarupa Gunj during the time of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati's mission. He was respected by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, and he used to see to it that Vamsivat Babaji was provided with grains and so on by Gaudiya Matha brahmacaris, whom he'd send to Swarupa Gunj from the Yoga Pitha Mandir.

One day, a lady selling fish approached V.B., offering him some choice type of catch. Somehow or other, the Babaji's mind became attracted to tasting the fish. But he immediately checked himself, and became very angry. He first of all shouted at the woman to get away. Then he was shouting, "How could this happen? How could this happen? I've surrendered my life to Radha Krishna, I'm under They're protection, and still this happens! Why You are not protecting me?"

He went storming into his bhajan kutir. People gathered while he fussed and fumed at his Deities inside. Then he came out, bringing the Deities tied by rope, and threw Them into the Ganga. He kept the end of the rope under his foot. When one man inquired why he was doing this, the Baba threw a rock at him.

When this news reached the Gaudiya Matha Mandir, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta called his brahmacaris together and forbade them from visiting this baba again, save for one who would just deliver supplies. After a few days, he again called them together and said, "Some of you think I've stopped you from visiting babaji maharaja because he is in maya. That is not so. But you are not able to understand this bhava. So stay away."

Later, when that one brahmacari visited, Vamsidas babaji maharaj threw a stone at him and told, "If you want to please me, then never return here again!"

Previously his reception had always been unpredictable. Sometimes the Baba would welcome him. Sometimes he would accept the gifts without saying a word. Sometimes he would just sit and stare. Sometimes he would take the gifts and angrily throw them in the river.

VAMSIDAS BABAJI - Excerpts from OBL Kapoor’s “The Saints of Bengal” (Srila Prabhupada's Godbros')

Vamsidasa Babaji was a siddha-mahatma in the disciplic succession of Sri Narottama Thakura. The name of his diksa-guru was Harilal Vrajavasi and the name of his vesa-guru was Ramananda Vrajavasi. But it was difficult to know that he was siddha, because he lived far away from the world in a solitary place on the bank of Ganga near Baral Ghata in Navadvipa, as if he was renounced by the world, as an idiotic and worthless destitute. But the fact is that it is not the world that had renounced him, but he, who had renounced the world as worthless. He hardly had any worldly possessions. His only possessions were an old kaupina, karanga and kantha. Once Sripada Haridasa Gosvami asked him why he did not wear bahirvasa. He replied, “I live only with ka, which means kaupina, karanga and kantha. I have nothing to do with ba”, which means bahirvasa or outer garment. Bahirvasa brings relationship with the outer world and the people, who are bahiranga, that is those, who are attached to the outer world. My Gaura has asked me not to wear bahirvasa and mix with people who are bahiranga."

Vamsidasa Babaji lived in a world of his own. His world centered round his deities-Gaura-Gadadhara, Nitai, Radha-Krishna and Gopala. For the service of these deities he had two brass pots, some earthen pots, one plate, one glass, some small cups, panca patra, bell and conch-shell and nothing else. Baba passed day and night in the service of the deities and in sweet talks with Them. Early in the morning he went out from his kuti to collect flowers. Then he went for bhiksa. He returned to the kuti about noon and made garlands from the flowers for each of the six deities. After that he started cutting vegetables. He washed each vegetable a number of times. Then he cleaned rice. He examined each grain of rice. If he found any grain from which the husk was not removed, he removed it with his own hand. He did everything slowly, contemplating all the time the lila of Radha-Krishna or Gaura-Nitai, and singing or talking to Them. It was only late in the evening that he could cook and offer bhoga to the deities. He had no consciousness of time. Morning and evening, day and night had no meaning for him. Almost the whole night he kept awake, talking and singing.

Once Sripada Haridasa Gosvami was surprised to see him cooking for the deities at about 9 a.m. He said to him, "Baba! It would be fine, if you prepare bhoga for the deities like this in the morning everyday." He replied, "I do not know morning or evening. Am I their father's servant so to feed them at appointed hours? If They want to eat like that, let Them make Their own arrangements for cooking. Let Gadadhara cook for Gaura. Nitai is avadhuta. He has no caste. He can go and eat anywhere. I do not worry about my Gopala. A milch-cow comes here everyday and gives Him milk. He can live on that. I have to worry about Radha-Krishna. For Them I will have to cook a little rice and vegetables. If I don't, They will go to Vmdavana and do madhukari. "

Vamsidas Baba never locked the door of his kuti when he went out for bhiksa or to bathe in the Gariga. If someone asked him why he did not lock the kuti, he said, "If the owner of the house Himself does not keep a watch and has a soft corner for the thief, what is the use of locking the house? I do not even keep the keys of the lock with me. The lock has three keys. All the three are with the three boys. One is with Gaura, one with Nitai and one with Gadadhara." After entrusting the lock and the keys to the three boys, Baba used to be free from anxiety. If while he was out a cow entered the kuti and turned everything topsy turvy, he would be angry with the boys. If some one stole something from the kuti he would say, "Gaura has a soft corner for Nadiyavasis, the residents of His own Dhama. Therefore He gives things away to them. I am after all an outsider." Once a gold necklace, given by someone to Gaura, was stolen, when he had gone out for bhiksa. On returning to the kuti he kept on scolding Gaura and asking Him whom He had given away the necklace, for about two hours. Towards the evening he got a hint. He then went to the house of the theif and asked him for the necklace. The thief pushed him down the verandah of his house. He was hurt. But he did not say anything. But how could Gaura tolerate this? The thief soon died as well as all the other members of his family.

Once Baba had to punish Gaura-Nitai for Their connivance in a theft. The two brass-pots, in which Baba' used to cook for Gaura-Nitai were stolen. How could this happen without the connivance of Gaura-Nitai? So They were punished. Baba scolded Them and did not give Them anything to eat that day. The punishment had its effect The next day someone came quietly and delivered one of those pots. Baba said, "This small pot is Nitai's. He will be fed today. If Gaura wants to eat, He must also bring His pot." Baba always did what he said. He cooked and offered bhoga to Nitai. Gaura drew a long face as He kept looking at Nitai eating. In the meantime another man came and delivered the other pot. Baba then cooked in that pot and offered bhoga to Gaura. When Gaura also had eaten, he said with tears in his eyes, "Do I ever want to punish You? But both of You are so naughty that You must always tease me. You do not know that I have now become old and cannot bear it all. What can I do?"

It is difficult to understand what bhava Vamsidasa Baba had towards Gaura. It sometimes appeared to be sakhya (friendly), sometimes vatsalya (parental) and sometimes madhura, like that of a Nadiya-nagari (lady of Nadiya) towards Gaurariga as Nadiya-nagara (an attractive citizen of Nadiya). If it was basically madhura, it is easy to understand that he sometimes exhibited vatsalya-bhava towards Him and sometimes sakhya, because madhura-bhava includes all other bhavas. According to Haridasa Gosvami his bhava was of Nadiyanagari type, because he used to compose songs of this bhava and sing. He has quoted some of these songs. Two of them are reproduced below:

kena giya chilama ganga-tire o nagari |
nyana kataksa bane gaura kaila mana churi ||
ami ekhana ki kari o nagari ki kari ||

“O Nagari! How I repent having gone to the bank of Ganga.
Gaura cast a side long glance at me and stole my heart
What shall I do now, O Nagari! What shall I do?”

bala go nagari gaura kallena ki ||
grha gela kula gela mana kela curi |
sajani! ekhana ami ki kari ||
nayana kone, kane kane gaura kallena ki |
ami je prana mari gaura kallena ki ||

“Tell me O Nagari what Gaura has done to me,
He winked and whispered and did,
I do not know what to me.
O Sakhi! Now I know not what to do,
Life is running out of me.
O! What has Gaura done to me?”

Towards the end of his life Baba once went to his birth place Majitpur in district Maymansinha. He carried the deities with him. On the way he neither ate, nor slept, nor passed stool or urine. On reaching Majitpur he stayed in a dilapidated temple. After that he went to Vrndavana and Puri. In Vrndavana he stayed on the bank of Yamuna, in Puri on the bank of Narendra Sarovara. He never went inside a temple for darsana. During these travels the sadhus of the Gaudiya Matha rendered great service to him.

Nothing is known about Baba's life as a householder, except that he was married at an early age and his son Haracandra was nine or ten years old when he renounced the world. He went to Navadvipa about the year 1906. The author once tried to see him in 1932, but could not, because the door of his kuti was closed, though he could hear him talking to the deities in Maymansinha dialect. He left the world in 1944.

(Excerpts from OBL Kapoor’s “The Saints of Bengal”)

Disappearance Day on Caturthi

ChiefCowpie

09-25-2004, 12:59 AM

Vamsi das Babaji:
"You must weep for Krishna!"
by His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Maharaj

http://www.gokul.org/weep/weep.html (http://www.gokul.org/weep/weep.html)

The following is an excerpt from the chapter "What is Bhakti?" in the book "A Taste of Transcendence" by Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Maharaj. For more information about this book, click here.

The great Vaisnava saint, Vamsi dasa Babaji Maharaja, was no ordinary sadhu. Outwardly, he had his advent in what is now known as Bangladesh, in Majidpur Village, Maimansingh district, near Jamalpur. But later, he came to Navadvipa-dhama, accepted the babaji order and performed his bhajana under a tree. The order of sannyasa is given for preaching, but a babaji will perform bhajana in a holy, secluded place. A babaji will not go outside for pracara (preaching). Many people would come to Babaji Maharaja and offer to build him a cottage, but he chose to remain always beneath a banyan tree. He would not move from there. He was surcharged with krsna-prema. He was a very tall figure. He never shaved, but remained like a madman. Many people would offer him various things, but he would pay them no attention. Whatever he might receive, he would distribute to others. He was an anchorite. Nobody could understand his behavior. He had only two big cloth bags---he had no temple. In one cloth bag was Gaura-Nitai and, in the other, Radha-Krsna. Sometimes, he would take the Deities out and perform puja. So, is his bhakti less because he had just small Deities, and ours greater because we have a big temple? Gaura-Nityananda were most satisfied by his service. Our Parampujyapada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura used to bow down to him from a distance. He prohibited his disciples from visiting Babaji Maharaja. His disciples asked, "Shall we not have darsana of the sadhus?" But Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura replied, "You will not be able to understand his behavior and you will commit offenses. He is not within this world, but is moving in the transcendental realm. If I commit an offense, it will be anti-devotional. For this reason, I am bowing down to him from a distance. Only a suddha bhakta can understand his wonderful behavior. An ordinary novice of bhajana will be unable to understand, so he should not go there. Babaji Maharaja is always surcharged with krsna-prema!"

There was a person from Navadvipa-dhama who used to come to Babaji Maharaja. One day, he thought, "I have the desire to obtain the Supreme Lord. How can I get Bhagavan?" He was only murmuring, speaking to himself, so Babaji Maharaja did not reply. This person came back repeatedly to see Babaji Maharaja. Finally, one day, he approached Maharaja directly.

"What do you want?" Babaji Maharaja asked him.

"I want to see Bhagavan," the man said.

Babaji Maharaja replied with only one word: "Weep!"

We might supply so much scriptural evidence to try to explain, in so many ways, how to obtain the Supreme Lord, but what did Vamsi dasa Babaji Maharaja say? "Weep for Him!" If you can weep for Him, then you can get Him. If there is want for Him, then He will come. We are uttering His Names, but we do not want Him. So, we are uttering the Names of Krsna---"hare krsna, hare krsna, krsna krsna, hare hare, krsna rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare"---and Krsna appears before us. He says to us, "Come along!"

We say to Him, "No, I cannot go now. Right now I require a million dollars to save my business. I have my children. I have just bought a building. I cannot go now."

"So, why have you called Me?" Krsna asks.

"I have called you to give me a million dollars," we reply. "Remove my difficulties. I do not have time to go now."

From where are we uttering the Name? Not from the heart! We are chanting, "hare krsna" but, if Krsna were to come, we would be unable to go.

A certain Svamiji gave an illustration. It is an illustration involving the ordinary day-to-day life of a householder but, nonetheless, there is something very impressive about this illustration. In a town in Bengal, there was a man who worked in an office. He lived with his wife and two children. One of the children was only three or four months old and the other was seven years old. One day, the man told his wife, "You will have to prepare breakfast early today because I have to go into the office early. After I eat, I shall leave right away." When the wife went to cook, she first put the baby on the bed and then went into the kitchen. But, whenever she would enter the kitchen, the child would cry. She thought, "With the child in my lap, how will I be able to cook? It is very difficult." She was thinking what she should do. Then she thought of a way she could manage. She called the seven-year-old child.

"Darling, come here!" she called. "Do you know that red toy in the shop?"

"Yes, I know it," the child answered.

"Go and buy that toy, but be sure that it makes a nice jingling sound."

The child took some money and went off to buy the toy. He brought it home and gave it to the mother. The mother laid the baby down on the bed and hung the red-colored toy with the jingling sound above him, at the end of a rope. The baby saw the toy and immediately started to play with it, hitting it from side to side. The child was most delighted as he continued to slap the toy and hear the jingling sound. For one hour he played like that, and the mother went to do her cooking. After that, the child started to feel hungry. For the entire time that the child was playing, he did not remember his mother. But, now that he felt hungry, he thought, "Oh, where is my mother?" But his mother did not come. Then, he started crying, signifying, "I am hungry! Come!" He could not speak, so he beckoned his mother by crying. "Come to me and suckle me! I am hungry!" His mother, however, was busy cooking. "No," she thought, "let the child cry."

After some time, the child stopped crying and went back to playing with the toy---jingle, jingle, jingle. After playing like that for a while, the pangs of hunger returned. His hunger increased and increased and he became more and more unhappy. He began to cry for his mother even more loudly than before.

His mother heard the crying of the baby, but thought that she should first finish her cooking.

Finally, the hunger became unbearable for the child. The child thought, "I don't want toys!" All he could think about was his mother.
His crying became louder and louder until he was screaming. He started to throw his arms about and kick his legs, in a tantrum.

Then the mother thought, "Oh, I cannot stay away any longer!" The mother ran toward the child, embraced him and suckled him.

Like this, the Supreme Lord has given us toys---the toy of a wife or husband, toys of children, toys of buildings, toys of radios, toys of videos, toys of computers. Seeing this, Krsna thinks, "They are absorbed in their toys! I have no worries. I am engaged in My pastimes in the transcendental realm. They do not want this. They want those things instead. Here, take this computer! Take that video! Take this! Take that!"

Upon the awakening of his real self (atma), a man feels the want of the sweetest affection of the Supreme Lord. He cries, "Oh Supreme Lord! In this world, nothing gives me happiness. Everything is temporary. Everyone is selfish. You are my most beloved! Where are You? I have forgotten You! Come! Come! I am in a furnace! Come! Come!" Weeping, he calls, but Krsna does not come. "I am engaged in My pastimes," Krsna says. For some time, the man then becomes absorbed in the affairs of his family and relatives, and forgets Krsna. Time passes and he cries again, "Where is My beloved Supreme Lord? Where is He?" Crying, crying. But, the Supreme Lord still does not come. Ultimately, he shouts, "I do not want a house! I do not want anything! Nobody is mine---You are mine! Oh beloved Supreme Lord! Come! Come! Come!" He cries and weeps, tossing his arms and legs about. Then Krsna cries, "Oh!" and comes to him. This sort of perturbation of the heart, extreme eagerness for getting Bhagavan, must be there.

Vamsi dasa Babaji Maharaja said only one word: "Weep!" But that single word has great significance. When we associate with the suddha bhakta who is crying for Krsna, then the eternal nature of atma will be awakened. You have love for God. Love is there in your soul. It exists, but it is presently enveloped by the external potency of the Supreme Lord and you have become averse to Sri Krsna. Passing through different species, our minds have become enveloped by so many evil desires...

BlackBillBlake

09-25-2004, 02:26 PM

Hare Krishna! :)

Thanks Chief Cowpie for the posts about Vamidas Babaji.

Haribol!

sleeping jiva

09-25-2004, 04:25 PM

Love to Krsna is love in separation. Nobody can see Him or have Him. We should check our tears so that Krsna is not perplexed. Not that Krsna is mine, not like that

sleeping jiva

09-26-2004, 07:09 PM

There was one incidence, very interesting. When he was magistrate in Jagannatha Puri. The system is, Jagannatha temple is a very big establishment. In the temple fifty-six times daily, bhoga is offered. And you’ll find in the temple always at least five hundred to one thousand people gathered. And they come from outside, and prasada is ready. If you go and ask in the Jagannatha temple that “We are one hundred men come from outside. We want prasada,” yes, immediately ready. So it is a huge temple. This is one temple, but there are many other thousands of temple in India where prasada is distributed. Now it is minimized by our present government. They think that it is unnecessary expenditure. They are minimizing. But not unnecessary expenditure. They do not understand. Formerly, in India there was no necessity of hotel. Anyone goes anywhere, even in a village, he goes to a temple, prasada is ready. There is no need of going to a hotel. You pay or don’t pay. If you say that “I want little prasada,” “Yes, take it.” That is the system still. There is the Nathadvara temple in Rajasthan. You pay two annas only. Two annas means one cent. You get sumptuous prasada for two mens, all very nice prasada, still. So prasada distribution in temple is longstanding usage. So Bhaktivinoda Thakura... The Jagannatha temple is managed by a body, and it is the custom that the local magistrate of the district, he becomes the president, or manager.

So Bhaktivinoda Thakura was manager in that sense, because he was magistrate. The managing committee was being presided by him. So there was a complaint. In Orissa, this Jagannatha temple is situated in Orissa. Utkala. Utkala, this state, was originally belonging to Dhruva Maharaja. His son’s name was Utkala, Maharaja Utkala. Anyway, so this Utkala, there was a pseudo yogi. He declared himself that... Just like you’ll find nowadays also, there are so many rascals declaring that “I am incarnation of God.” And they know some mystic power, play some jugglery, and foolish people take them: “Oh, he’s God.” So there appeared one like such pseudo God, Visnu, in a village of Orissa. And he was dancing rasa dance, and foolish people were sending their daughters and wife to dance with him. You see? There were so many. Not only that. People are so foolish, they do not know. They want to be cheated, and these cheaters come. He declared that “I am God. I am Visnu.” So there were sane men also. They took objection, “What is this nonsense? This man is dancing with ladies and girls.” So they filed a complaint. At that time it was British rule. They complained to the governor or the commissioner, very high officer. The commissioner knew that Bhaktivinoda Thakura... His name was Kedaranatha Datta. Datta. Kedaranatha Datta, his household name. So the commissioner of the division, he knew that Kedaranatha Datta is a religious man, and he’s magistrate in charge. So he handed over the case for inquiry, “What is this complaint? You please inquire and do the needful.” So he was a pure devotee, and he understood that “This rascal is a bogus man, cheating people. I must inquire.” So he went to the village in plain dress with some constables, police constables. They were also in plain dress. And as soon as he approached that rascal yogi, he said, “Oh, you are Kedaranatha Datta. So, very nice. You are... I shall make you king of India. Please don’t try to bother me.” Because he could know that “He has come to inquire about my rasa-lila.”

So Bhaktivinoda Thakura first of all said, “Sir, you are such a great yogi. Why you are in the village? Why don’t you go to Jagannatha Puri? There is temple and Lord Jagannatha is there. Better you go there and see the Lord and be happy. Why you are in this village?” “Oh, Jagannatha? Ah, that is made of wood. I am personally the Supreme Lord. That is made of wood.” Oh, then Bhaktivinoda Thakura, he was a devotee, he became fire. He was insulting. Arcye sila-dhar gurunu nara-matu. According to sastra, if somebody thinks... Just like here is Deity. If somebody thinks, “Oh, it is made of stone.” It is stone to the eyes of the nondevotee, but it is personally Supreme Personality of Godhead to the devotees. It requires the eyes to see. So devotee sees in a different angle of vision. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when He entered Jagannatha temple immediately He fainted: “Oh, here is My Lord.” And the nondevotee is seeing: “It is wood, a lump of wood.” Therefore, to the nondevotee, He remains always as wood, but to the devotee He speaks. That is the difference. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. If God is everything, why wood, through wood and stone, God cannot manifest? If God is everything? According to Mayavada philosophy. That’s a fact. God, omnipotent. He can express Himself even through wood and stone. That is God’s omnipotency. That is called omnipotency. Not that God is unable to express Himself through wood and stone. Then how He’s omnipotent? Omnipotent means His potency can be expressed through anything. Because anything, everything is the expansion of God’s energy. Parasya brahmanah saktis tathedam akhilam jagat. The whole world is manifestation of different energies of God. Therefore, just like through the energy of electricity the electric powerhouse, although far, far away from this place, was expressing. There is electricity. Through this glass, through these wires, the power can be expressed. There is a process.

So Bhaktivinoda Thakura became very much... because a devotee cannot tolerate blaspheming another devotee or God. So as soon as he said that “Why shall I go to Jagannatha Puri to see the wooden Jagannatha? I am personally Visnu,” Bhaktivinoda Thakura immediately ordered his constables, “Arrest him. Arrest this rascal.” So he was arrested. And when he was arrested, he had some yogic mystic power. All the constables, Bhaktivinoda Thakkura, and his family members became affected with high fever, 105 degrees fever. So when he came back, his wife became very much disturbed that “You arrested Visnu, and we are all going to die. We have now high fever.” Bhaktivinoda Thakura replied, “Yes, let us all die, but this rascal must be punished.” This is the view of pure devotee. So he was put into the custody. And there was a date fixed for his trial, and all these days Bhaktivinoda Thakura himself and his family especially, they were suffering from high fever. Maybe that yogi was planning to kill the whole family. But it was going on as fever. So on the trial day, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Kedaranatha Datta, when he came to the bench the man was presented, the so-called yogi, and he had big big hairs. So Bhaktivinoda Thakura ordered that “Bring one barber and cut his hair.” So no barber dared. The barbers thought, “Oh, he’s a Lord Visnu. If I offend, as he’s suffering from fever, so I shall also die.” So Bhaktivinoda Thakura ordered that “Give me the scissor. I’ll cut.” So he cut his hairs and ordered him to be put into jail for six months, and in the jail that Visnu incarnation managed to take some poison, and he died.

read the whol electure by Prabhupada:
http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Bhaktivinoda_Thakura.html