hare krishna

[BlackBillBlake]

The idea of Krishna is Krishna, there's no such thing as idea of Krishna!!!!! There's no representations of Krishna!!!!!
This can't be right. Otherwise, a person who had heard the name of the Lord only once, and never read, chanted or done any other sadhana would know Krishna as Intimately as His close Devotees.

I don't challenge Krishna, sleeping Jiva - I may challenge your mental conceptions about Krishna and related philosophy, but thats quite another thing. And I don't do so out of egotism or some desire to win points in some supposed contest, but because as one who first chanted Hare Krishna more than thirty years ago, I wish to share with others what I have realized.You have started this thread, a public forum for discussion of these matters, so please, try to understand that to contradict your idea of things is not to challenge Sri Krishna.

[BlackBillBlake]

Yes, you are absolutely right, but for me, it is quite hard to surrender to my Guru, he doesn't even know I exist though I talked to him a few times. He has alot of people following him... my guru is Chinna Geeyar swami and he says almost the samethings my heart tells me.

Therefore , it is not hard for one to realize the absolute truth, even if he is the most lowest of mankind he can rise above and live in peace at the feet of the lord, when he shows his mercy.

For me, I am a fan of karma yoga- the action in Krishna consciousness.

Sometimes people fight by saying Jyana is the best, some people say no- bhakti and action in bhakti- action in krishna consciousness is the best... but in truth my heart tells me, the living being who follows one path faithfully, gains the benefits of both and ever lasting peace.
I am glad that you are sincere in seeking to surrender to you Guru!

Sometimes, we may be able to directly be in the physical prescence of Realized persons, and at other times we feel the separation - but know that God is everywhere, and can be realized anywhere. He is never distant from us, but closer than the closest, closer than a heartbeat.

The path of Karma Yoga is a great path; it allows us to bring all our activities into relation with the Lord, to offer all to Him in Love. You are right to trust your heart - often, that is how we can find that truth which remains when all else collapses.And often the heart is a surer guide than the mind!

Blessings

BBB.

[sleeping jiva]

This can't be right. Otherwise, a person who had heard the name of the Lord only once, and never read, chanted or done any other sadhana would know Krishna as Intimately as His close Devotees.

I don't challenge Krishna, sleeping Jiva - I may challenge your mental conceptions about Krishna and related philosophy, but thats quite another thing. And I don't do so out of egotism or some desire to win points in some supposed contest, but because as one who first chanted Hare Krishna more than thirty years ago, I wish to share with others what I have realized.You have started this thread, a public forum for discussion of these matters, so please, try to understand that to contradict your idea of things is not to challenge Sri Krishna.
You misinterpreted everything I said. There's no such thing as idea of Krishna, or representation of Krishna. My idea? what is "my idea"? Where you can find "my idea" in this forum?

[BlackBillBlake]

You misinterpreted everything I said. There's no such thing as idea of Krishna, or representation of Krishna. My idea? what is "my idea"? Where you can find "my idea" in this forum?
Everything you say that is not a quote is your idea of things - your understanding of Krishna and of Srila Prabhupada.

If I misunderstand then please enlighten me as to what you really meant. But I've already said what I think - there is a difference between Krishna and the concept or idea of Krishna in the mind of the ordinary, ie un-realized person.So please explain how there can be no difference -

Let me put like this - a picture of Krishna is not krishna. This is obvious, because the picture can be destroyed, reproduced or changed according to human will or caprice. With death, the picture will no longer be available to the person who in life used to look at it.

Also' I know that Sri Krishna lives in my heart - but not a particular image formed by human hands!

On 'spititual sky' inscense pack is a picture of Sri Krishna - millions of which must wind up in people's garbage cans, or worse.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Oooh! I'm so happy to see more different imputs kicking around in here! :)

That's really all I have to say (seriously...)...I'm more the observer than anything else...I don't know anymore than what I take in...and I am glad to have more teachers and points of view :) Welcome to the group BlackBillBlake (well welcome back to you) and Jedi! :)

[BlackBillBlake]

Oooh! I'm so happy to see more different imputs kicking around in here! :)

That's really all I have to say (seriously...)...I'm more the observer than anything else...I don't know anymore than what I take in...and I am glad to have more teachers and points of view :) Welcome to the group BlackBillBlake (well welcome back to you) and Jedi! :)
Thanks for the welcome back - never really been away!!

Love

BBB

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Well...than I guess I should say welcome out of lurk-dom :)

[sleeping jiva]

I'm sorry. You're right, everything except quotes are my own blabberings and therefore not very objective things, but I believe I'm not saying anything against Prabhupada, what is contradicting his teachings. If it's so, I'm willing to accept my mistake, not otherwise. Therefore I'm saying where are my ideas? what have I said different from Prabhupada's teachings?
It seems to me that me and SvGrdnbeauty were the only people who quoted Prabhupada's books in this forum, so compared to others, I don't think that I'm pushing my own explanations. First criticize them, ok?
Forget all about me. I'm a sleeping jiva.- why would I give myself this name if I wasn't aware of my deep ignorance?

But I was reading very recently a lecture of Prabhupada and he said that Deities in the temple are not representations of Krishna, they are Krishna. This is the difference, so yea, even the picture is Krishna Himself. Mantra, maybe you heard it before, mahamantra is Krishna Himself, Bhagavadgita and all the sastras, they're not representations -they're all Krishna Himself. everything is spiritual, there's no such a thing as material, everything is spiritual. It's only coverd by maya -that's why we think we are independent from Krsna. But as soon the material objects, or desires are transcended into devotional service to Lord Krishna they revive their spiritual platform. For example prasadam, you have desire to eat a good food, so instead of satisfying yourself, you offer it to Krishna. Thus your desire becomes a good desire. The idea of Krishna doesn't exist, also representation doesn't exist, it's all Krishna. If people don't understand Him, He wants to purify them, so He sends maya, which brings suffering, thus they understand and surrender to Him. If you're afriad to be misled by cheaters, read Bhagavadgita As It Is by Srila Prabhupada -it's so easy. Just surrender to God, you don't need anything else.

Of course, if you say This is Krishna and do something what is against the scriptures, you're nothing but a cheater. Hope, you see my point now. hare krishna!

[sleeping jiva]

IN MY BOOKS the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.

Srila Prabhupada

[BlackBillBlake]

IN MY BOOKS the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.

Srila Prabhupada
I would have prefered it if you had addresed the points in my previous reply in your own words. I can't see how the idea of Krishna in the mind of an unrealized, even anti-divine person can be the actual form of krishna. If so, they'd only have to hear the name and all would immediately become clear - they would have full realization. Reading of Shastra, of Prabhupada or anyone else would become irrelevant, as would effort at realization, beacause they'd have it already.

The Image of the Deity in the temple is not just any picture of krishna. If it were, it could be treated with the same contempt I mentioned with regard to pictures of Krishna on inscense packets. And I'm sure you'll agree that can't be right.

[sleeping jiva]

I would have prefered it if you had addresed the points in my previous reply in your own words. I can't see how the idea of Krishna in the mind of an unrealized,

idea of Krishna is a nonsense, it doesn't exist. there's no idea of Krishna. Krishna is real, man!


even anti-divine person can be the actual form of krishna. If so, they'd only have to hear the name and all would immediately become clear - they would have full realization. Reading of Shastra, of Prabhupada or anyone else would become irrelevant, as would effort at realization, beacause they'd have it already.

have it? noone has Krishna, noone has realization of Krishna. Krishna has all! Krishna is the Supreme Proprietor, he is the owner of our realization. But anyhow, I didn't say this.

The Image of the Deity in the temple is not just any picture of krishna. If it were, it could be treated with the same contempt I mentioned with regard to pictures of Krishna on inscense packets. And I'm sure you'll agree that can't be right.

I kept the package from incense, I kept even the package my sister have from a Henna hair color. I would never throw it away. I never read that it in Bhagavadgita, I just can't thow it away. Deities are Krishna, they're not representation. But as you said when somebody claims to know Krishna eventhough in his talks he's against the scripture, he's a cheater -that's not Krishna. I agree with you on this one. I'm just against the words you used.

[BlackBillBlake]

idea of Krishna is a nonsense, it doesn't exist. there's no idea of Krishna.

have it? noone has Krishna, noone has realization of Krishna. Krishna has all! Krishna is the Supreme Proprietor, he is the owner of our realization. But anyhow, I didn't say this.


Then there can be no false idea or mental image of Krishna, so no need to read the Purana to find out about Him. Because whatever we think will be the supreme absolute Para-Brahman.

If no one has realization of Krishna, why does Srila Prabhupada speak of 'realized souls' and why write a book called 'The Science of Self-Realization'?

Had not Prabhupada become realized?

[sleeping jiva]

Then there can be no false idea or mental image of Krishna, so no need to read the Purana to find out about Him. Because whatever we think will be the supreme absolute Para-Brahman.

If no one has realization of Krishna, why does Srila Prabhupada speak of 'realized souls' and why write a book called 'The Science of Self-Realization'?

Had not Prabhupada become realized?I didn't say that, why do think I said that? you know forget it. we say the same thing. I told you that the both ways are equally important -within and without.
Noone has realization of Krishna. Yes, there are realised souls, but they don't have realization. how can you have realization? Realization is not material so you can have it. That's what I was saying.

[BlackBillBlake]

Lets say one can bacome realized. That doesn't mean one 'posesses' realization as with some materiel thing. Great Souls are established in Brahman, in realization.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Yes, see that is the only grey area, I think. When you read Bhahavad-Gita As It Is...it tells you many things to do in order to find realization...then at the same time, Srila Prabhupada and others would say that all you have to do is chant...and you will come to those things...

..but at the same time Krishna says that no one will truly know what He is...

Wow, you know what, nevermind...I think I just confused myself...and made no sense... scratch the above...

And I have to agree with the thing about the pictures...I don't think that the pictures are exactly Krishna, that's like saying that each crucifix is exactly Jesus...instead I think that they are representations to help us learn about Him and to remind us to remember Him in our everyday lives...

[Jedi]

I would have prefered it if you had addresed the points in my previous reply in your own words. I can't see how the idea of Krishna in the mind of an unrealized, even anti-divine person can be the actual form of krishna. If so, they'd only have to hear the name and all would immediately become clear - they would have full realization. Reading of Shastra, of Prabhupada or anyone else would become irrelevant, as would effort at realization, beacause they'd have it already.

The Image of the Deity in the temple is not just any picture of krishna. If it were, it could be treated with the same contempt I mentioned with regard to pictures of Krishna on inscense packets. And I'm sure you'll agree that can't be right.
Yes, you are absolutely right. You have to hear the name and everything will be realized, just like the sun's luminous reflection is seen as the mirror is turned toward the sun.

However, we are now dirty, therefore, we have to keep on chanting his name, calling him to clean us up, then he will come and clean us up and then we can see him.

If you want to clean it faster, read shastras and talk to the mirrors that are clean and they will give you instructions on how to clean yourself. ;)

[Jedi]

Then there can be no false idea or mental image of Krishna, so no need to read the Purana to find out about Him. Because whatever we think will be the supreme absolute Para-Brahman.

If no one has realization of Krishna, why does Srila Prabhupada speak of 'realized souls' and why write a book called 'The Science of Self-Realization'?

Had not Prabhupada become realized?There is no false image of krishna. Every image is his, however if you want to know how he truly is, what his qualities are, what he actually is orginally, then you have to let him tell you that, until then you cannot understand him.

Some people worship him as Narayana, some others worship him as hayagriva and some others see him as Rama.

The actual image of him is ofcourse the beautiful cowherd boy playing his charming flute.

If you want to worship him as shiva go ahead... however, do not consider shiva to be vishnu himself... because shiva is another living entity , but he is not like you and me because he is a great devotee of the lord, therefore he is always worthy of worship.

[BlackBillBlake]

There is no false image of krishna. Every image is his, however if you want to know how he truly is, what his qualities are, what he actually is orginally, then you have to let him tell you that, until then you cannot understand him. .
To say there is no false image of Krishna can't be right. It would be easy for an unscrupulous or ignorant person to misrepresent Krishna to another, who would then form a false image in their mind. This is the problem. for example, with the 'bogus gurus' who changed Srila Prabhupadas original texts.

To the realized person, everything is Krishna, all forms are His - they are in Him and He is in them. But to the everyday, relativistic consciousness of most people, it is hard to see Krishna in any way at all, and all but impossible to see Him in forms of falible, weak and egotistical persons for example, or in the evil person.

It is true that if we want to know God, we must be open to Him. Such openess is not easy to attain. One of the main stumbling blocks in the way of its attainment is an overly dogmatic attitude, or cleaving to a too narrow a mental conception of the 'how He truly is'.

It is also true that meerly having read what God is and what He is like does not give realization by itself.

[sleeping jiva]

I was talkiing about the images like you've posted above, not images one forms in his mind. I don't know anything, I'm a lost soul completely controled by three modes of material nature. Prabhupada's books are cool, you can learn everything from them. U can see by yourself then, who's going to cheat you. The thing with the fallen gurus was that they killed Prabhupada, they wanted to leave him out. They changed his books and acted against his instructions, therefore I would study his original books in any case. He was a first class devotee and noone can be compared to him in this age, I'm not saying that from egotism, it's a fact. When this person left very precise instructions in his books, lectures and so on, we should trust him totally. Not just pick something and then exploit it for our own sake. That's why I'm glad that chie Cow Pie called me a parrot, because that's what the fallen gurus weren't. We should all just parrot the Bhagavadgita. It's just like that. That's a surrender. surrender to this flawless philosophy, surrender to Prabhupada -a first class devotee. If you're afraid, if you think it's a dogma, or manipulation, then read his books anyhow and try to understand philosophically. But y'know the thing is as soon as your attitude is ok I'm going to challenge, you won't be able to surender. The one who wants to find a flaw he will find it. But I'm asking you what pushed this desire to challenge? Ask yourself that question. Isn't that dogma too?

[turtlefriend]

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare

Squee! That was in HAIR!

*clears throat* sorry, continue.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I'm listening to Hair right now actually :) I saw it for the first time a couple of weeks ago...and I wanted to run up when they started singing the maha-mantra... :) It made me very happy. Do stick around...it is seriously happier than it seems right now... :)

[Jedi]

I'm listening to Hair right now actually :) I saw it for the first time a couple of weeks ago...and I wanted to run up when they started singing the maha-mantra... :) It made me very happy. Do stick around...it is seriously happier than it seems right now... :)
Yes, do your best in everything that you do and chant, thats the best service anyone can give to krishna :D

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Yes, do your best in everything that you do and chant, thats the best service anyone can give to krishna :DI think that that's the best advice :) Reading the books and stuff...that's just the icing on the cake... If you start with chanting...things only get better :)...as long as its all in love...its all good :)

[BlackBillBlake]

I was talkiing about the images like you've posted above, not images one forms in his mind. I don't know anything, I'm a lost soul completely controled by three modes of material nature. Prabhupada's books are cool, you can learn everything from them. U can see by yourself then, who's going to cheat you. The thing with the fallen gurus was that they killed Prabhupada, they wanted to leave him out. They changed his books and acted against his instructions, therefore I would study his original books in any case. He was a first class devotee and noone can be compared to him in this age, I'm not saying that from egotism, it's a fact. When this person left very precise instructions in his books, lectures and so on, we should trust him totally. Not just pick something and then exploit it for our own sake. That's why I'm glad that chie Cow Pie called me a parrot, because that's what the fallen gurus weren't. We should all just parrot the Bhagavadgita. It's just like that. That's a surrender. surrender to this flawless philosophy, surrender to Prabhupada -a first class devotee. If you're afraid, if you think it's a dogma, or manipulation, then read his books anyhow and try to understand philosophically. But y'know the thing is as soon as your attitude is ok I'm going to challenge, you won't be able to surender. The one who wants to find a flaw he will find it. But I'm asking you what pushed this desire to challenge? Ask yourself that question. Isn't that dogma too?
Afraid I'm not with you here Jiva. I have already said I don't challenge Krishna, I've read many of Prabhupadas books over a period of thirty years and done much chanting.It seems you have not understood the points I raised in my previous posts rgarding the mind and its image or idea of God.
When you say we should 'not just pick something and exploit it for our own sake' I assume you think this iswhat I'am doing. But if so, to what end? And what exactly am I exploiting?
Prabhupada said that Krishna Consciousness is for the more intelligent, so please display some intelligence in responding to these posts.

[sleeping jiva]

'not just pick something and exploit it for our own sake' -that was meant for people who exploit Krishna in order to get control over people, or just push their own egotistical purposes. I didn't mean it in connection with you. These people they are creating their own versions of what Prabhupada said, what Krishna said, and so on. They create interpretations. They create false image of Krishna. They create false image of Krishna in people's minds. There's no need to create any image of Krishna, or interpret, do u follow? Bhagavadgita is Krishna Himself -it's not an interpretation. Deities are Krishna Himself, it's not interpretation, representation. There's no need to interpret -just tell them what you've read and you're a perfect Vaishnava. When you quote Prabhupada, or Krishna from Bhagavadgita without any addings you utter Krishna's words! They're Krishna -your words are Krishna -very powerful and they're perfect -no flaw.

But talking about the method how to receive the Krishna knowledge -we should first surender, that is requisite. We should not read, or chant without any beside reasons, except attain Krishna consciousness. If you don't surender in the beginning, it's hard to surender afterwards. It's like to jump into abyss, you must leave everything behind from your mental speculation. Open yourself and you'll understand. You can't loose anything except worries and paranoia. If you read the books, but you don't like Krishna, then it is hard. Also if you chant, but you have no sincerity within you, then it's futile. Then it's not a real Krishna consciousness.

cool pictures, keep them coming...

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Yes, there are things in this world that we cannot control...not just false-gurus...but the people who think that they own the world and are putting harm to it...but snipping at eachother over it (when, as far as I know, none of us are these things) isn't helping...what helps is doing our part by spreading the good things. "You have to be aware"...Aware, aware....yes I know I said that...but there's a difference with being aware and paranoid. Paranoia is what prevents us from doing something... So forget watching your back, we know its out there...that which any common man would call evil...but there's only one way to combat that in the end and that's love. I don't care who you are or what you are....love is the answer in the end. Krishna is love, regardless of whether or not you call Him Krishna, He is love. Spreading Krishna consciousness...isn't that like spreading love? There's nothing material about it and it is unconditional...and with it perhaps we can do our part to save the world...I think that they go hand in hand...

So instead of snipping about specifics...dogma even... let's forget it... Let's love...Chanting, why is it so good? Because its pure and its love...it brings us together, does it not? In the end, that's what it is about...let's all join together and spread love...because that is something that is non-material, not illusion, it exists...

[sleeping jiva]

exactly. When you love Krishna, it is a real love, because you're not conditioned. You don't need to be afraid that you won't be loved. And also there are no other reasons. Because material love may be still imperfect, we love, because we want to be loved. we think it's unconditional, but it's still conditional.

When you love Krishna, the answer is here right away. It's a fulfillment of all desires. When you love Krishna, you love everybody in the whole universe, because that is Krishna and the whole universe loves you, because Krishna loves you. haribol!

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Well...for the most part yes...but I don't think that love is material. Lust is. There's a difference. There is no illusion with love...its not palpable...but with it we can save the world because you need not be greedy with it...it is one thing that we can desire and not be guilty about it...it is the purpose...love. Simple, eh? Love is Krishna, love is us because we are part of God. And God saves, love saves. God helps he who helps himself...and I think that's the point...let's all love and we fill that cliche in... :)

Haribol! :) :)

[sleeping jiva]

no, I didn't say that love is material. Love for people is material, love for Krishna is spiritual. yeah, sometimes people think it's love, but it's lust.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

See...I don't think that love for people is material... ::shrug:: I guess its just how you look at things...

[BlackBillBlake]

See...I don't think that love for people is material... ::shrug:: I guess its just how you look at things...
You are right SGB love is never materiel. It is a question of where we direct our love. Love for people - that's natural. The problem is that none of these relationships are permanant. The person we love may die, or leave - or we may feel love for someone one day, then later, we don't feel the same way. This is the way of all relationships in the world of Maya. We become attatched to these human loves, and we suffer under the gunas correspondingly.
If we direct our love to God, to Krishna, then this is permanant. Krishna already loves everyone eternally. and with a love far surpassing any human love. When we love the Lord, we rise above all these limited relationships and enter, or return to our true being. Krishna wants to give gifts that no human love can give - eternal bliss, knowledge and love.
If there is love in us it is because we are part and parcel of Krishna, and we partake in some of His qualities to some extent. Therefore we should try to offer our love to Him.
As for spreading Krishna's message, yes!! let's do all we can !

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

:) :) :)

Hare Krishna!

[ChiefCowpie]

there is "conditional love" and "unconditional love" for people...conditional love probably shouldn't even be called love because love by its nature is without conditions...that which led Chaitanya Mahaprabhu or Jesus Christ or any avatara to advent is their unconditional love for people...to assist their awakening to the Truth...seeing them for what they truly are...spiritual beings...this love is also known as compassion...and too, people as enlightened beings share blissfull and happy pastimes as that love which is God is ever increasing in its joy as its passed amongst the people...so yes, love for people is cool..."all you need is love love love is all you need"

[Jedi]

The paragraphs below have been taken out from "Nectar of Devotion"

Śrīla (http://vedabase.net/s/srila) Rūpa (http://vedabase.net/r/rupa) Gosvāmī, after consulting various scriptures, has enumerated the transcendental qualities of the Lord as follows: (1) beautiful features of the entire body; (2) marked with all auspicious characteristics; (3) extremely pleasing; (4) effulgent; (5) strong; (6) ever youthful; (7) wonderful linguist; (8) truthful; (9) talks pleasingly; (10) fluent; (11) highly learned; (12) highly intelligent; (13) a genius; (14) artistic; (15) extremely clever; (16) expert; (17) grateful; (18) firmly determined; (19) an expert judge of time and circumstances; (20) sees and speaks on the authority of Vedas, or scriptures; (21) pure; (22) self-controlled; (23) steadfast; (24) forbearing; (25) forgiving; (26) grave; (27) self-satisfied; (28) possessing equilibrium; (29) magnanimous; (30) religious; (31) heroic; (32) compassionate; (33) respectful; (34) gentle; (35) liberal; (36) shy; (37) the protector of surrendered souls; (38) happy; (39) the well-wisher of devotees; (40) controlled by love; (41) all-auspicious; (42) most powerful; (43) all-famous; (44) popular; (45) partial to devotees; (46) very attractive to all women; (47) all-worshipable; (48) all-opulent; (49) all-honorable; (50) the supreme controller. The Supreme Personality of Godhead has all these fifty transcendental qualities in fullness as deep as the ocean. In other words, the extent of His qualities is inconceivable.
As parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, the individual living entities can also possess all of these qualities in minute quantities, provided they become pure devotees of the Lord. In other words, all of the above transcendental qualities can be present in the devotees in minute quantity, whereas the qualities in fullness are always present in the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Besides these, there are other transcendental qualities which are described by Lord Śiva (http://vedabase.net/s/siva) to Pārvatī (http://vedabase.net/p/parvati) in the Padma (http://vedabase.net/p/padma) Purāṇa (http://vedabase.net/p/purana), and in the First Canto of Śrīmad (http://vedabase.net/s/srimad)-Bhāgavatam (http://vedabase.net/b/bhagavatam) in connection with a conversation between the deity of the earth and the King of religion, Yamarāja. It is said therein, "Persons Who who are desirous of becoming great personalities must be decorated with the following qualities: truthfulness, cleanliness, mercy, perseverance, renunciation, peacefulness, simplicity, control of the senses, equilibrium of the mind, austerity, equality, forbearance, placidity, learning, knowledge, detachment, opulence, chivalry, influence, strength, memory, independence, tactfulness, luster, patience, kind-heartedness, ingenuity, gentility, mannerliness, determination, perfection in all knowledge, proper execution, possession of all objects of enjoyment, gravity, steadiness, faithfulness, fame, respectfulness and lack of false egotism." Persons who are desiring to become great souls cannot be without any of the above qualities, so we can know for certain that these qualities are found in Lord Kṛṣṇa (http://vedabase.net/k/krsna), the supreme soul.

Besides all of the above-mentioned fifty qualities, Lord Kṛṣṇa (http://vedabase.net/k/krsna) possesses five more, which are sometimes partially manifested in the persons of Lord Brahmā (http://vedabase.net/b/brahma) or Lord Śiva (http://vedabase.net/s/siva). These transcendental qualities are as follows: (51) changeless; (52) all-cognizant; (53) ever fresh; (54) sac-cid-ānanda (http://vedabase.net/a/ananda) (possessing an eternal blissful body); (55) possessing all mystic perfections.

Kṛṣṇa (http://vedabase.net/k/krsna) also possesses five other qualities, which are manifest in the body of Nārāyaṇa (http://vedabase.net/n/narayana), and they are listed as follows. (56) He has inconceivable potency. (57) Uncountable universes generate from His body. (58) He is the original source of all incarnations. (59) He is the giver of salvation to the enemies whom He kills. (60) He is the attractor of liberated souls. All these transcendental qualities are manifest wonderfully in the personal feature of Lord Kṛṣṇa (http://vedabase.net/k/krsna).

Besides these sixty transcendental qualities, Kṛṣṇa (http://vedabase.net/k/krsna) has four more, which are not manifest even in the Nārāyaṇa (http://vedabase.net/n/narayana) form of Godhead, what to speak of the demigods or living entities. They are as follows. (61) He is the performer of wonderful varieties of pastimes (especially His childhood pastimes). (62) He is surrounded by devotees endowed with wonderful love of Godhead. (63) He can attract all living entities all over the universes by playing on His flute. (64) He has a wonderful excellence of beauty which cannot be rivaled anywhere in the creation.

Adding to the list these four exceptional qualities of Kṛṣṇa (http://vedabase.net/k/krsna), it is to be understood that the aggregate number of qualities of Kṛṣṇa (http://vedabase.net/k/krsna) is sixty-four. Śrīla (http://vedabase.net/s/srila) Rūpa (http://vedabase.net/r/rupa) Gosvāmī has attempted to give evidences from various scriptures about all sixty-four qualities present in the person of the Supreme Lord.

[ChiefCowpie]

Sleeping Jiva is not a lunatic, he is saying the truth. The problem with him is that he is not yet self realized, but he acts in such a way that he wants to be... therefore he appears as if he is a lunatic even when he is not.

I read a few of his posts and I realize that the problem here is not him and it is definitely not Gdkumar or anyone. The problem here is your attitudes.

Try to understand people as humans, relieve yourself of duality. There is nothing wrong in praising one another along our paths, what is the truth? - it is something that is with in us- that which drives us from the animal life to the divine.

Truth to all of us is relative. What you think is true to you and to your consciousness is the truth. What you think is false is false.sleeping jiva's one sightedness one the path of self realization of Krishna for me is quite inspiring but his criticisms and diatribes of Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja and others here who happen to disagree with him is not an aspect of Truth but what is known as the mad elephant offense in the garden of the heart where the mad elephant rampages and stomps upon one's devotional creeper...it is simplistic to me when you say the problem is with our attitudes...yes, we may have some attitude problems but i hope sleeping jiva leaves behind his assault upon Prabhupada's Godbrothers and other Saints and Sages who speak of the same love and truth which is Krishna but only choose a different set of words to express it...read of the ocean of silence between words and one will see no differences

there are three pillars of vaishnavism and they are, sadhu, sastra and guru...i feel the medicine for sleeping jiva is sadhu as for him to have the association of one who has truly understood the mysteries of Krishna would convey to him the gentleness and love of the heart such an understanding requires...indeed, i feel he has had the oppurtunity in association in such a person as gdkumar and so hopefully he will return

yes, Prabhupada's books are great wonders of joy and beauty and wisdom but he seems to use them in way that where one is beaten and clubbed with these books...the message of the books is gained through bhakti...love and not attacking people with its teachings

but i agree, Truth is relative and each one alone has their glimpse of Krishna...and each has a light that shines within that will illuminate our world in a splendor untold in the coming days...years

[ChiefCowpie]

The idea that there is 'my truth' and 'your truth' is the thing I can't accept.
all the residents of vrndavana think of Krishna as "my Krishna"

[ChiefCowpie]

idea of Krishna...Krishna in the mind


http://www.salagram.net/Rupa-Sanatana-dhyan.jpg
Manasa Puja and Dhyana

by JTCd 30th January 2002

To read parts of this page the Balaram FONT (http://www.salagram.net/fonts.htm) is required - download it HERE (http://www.salagram.net/fonts.htm) What is Manasa puja?


Simply manasa puja means to worship in the mind. A devotee recently asked the following question on the www.pamho.net (http://www.pamho.net/) Deity worship forum:

>How is the manasa-puja being conducted? If, for example, the sixteen
>upacaras are to be offered during manasa-puja, do we then offer each item in
>the mind by showing it to the deity (e.g. putting a full plate of bogha
>bevor the deity). Or do we have to do the whole precedure like in "reality"
>(e.g. if bogha is to be offered: idam asanam, etad padyam.....idam
>naivdeyam.............idam acamaniam......)?

There are certainly two ways of doing manasa puja. One either meditates that s/he is worshipping the deity in the mind in which case all services are performed exactly like one would do in the external temple. Offerings are done with all procedures and mantras that would be done externally. The other method of manasa puja is more for raganuga bhaktas. They meditate on serving the Supreme Lord and his companions directly or with the help of others. In this case also puja is performed with all the procedures however the persons being offered the puja are not deities but the Lord and His entourage in Vaikuntha/Goloka, etc.

>What is the standard for manasa-puja?

I don't think that there is any standard for manasa puja in ISKCON.

ys Gaura Keshava das ( X-Com-Textno: PAMHO5318004 )

another devotee also responded with another nice reply, as follows:

X-Com-Textno: PAMHO5330488

According to Sanatana Gosvami manasa puja should accompany the regular daily external worship.

There are different ways to offer manasa puja. One way is to meditate on offering all the items, much like a slide show. Just visualize each of the sixteen items and their appropriate circumstances, one after another. You may also use an acamana cup and spoon and offer the items along with mantra. This serves as an external device to assist in the meditation. It is important that the manasa puja should not be interrupted.

> When I use manasa puja (for example, if I'm on a very long plane journey
> and have to worship my Govardhana sila but have no facility or
> cleanliness..) I make a great endeavor to do every single step as if in
> reality. I also endeavor to do so mentally as if "seeing through my own
> eyes" rather than "seeing myself" as if a "movie."

As far as possible you should be clean when you do manasa puja. Please see the description of the brahmana and the sweet rice in Nectar Of Devotion.

Your servant,
Nrsimha Kavaca dasa

[ChiefCowpie]

If one does not know any formal pUja prayog, or for one reason or another due to travelling, one can do a manasa pUja. It can be done anywhere, at any time, you dont have to spend a paisa on pUja materials either. manasa pUja is simply worshipping in mind. You imagine the entire sequence of the worship. It is not inferior to actual worship. In fact it is considered in some schools as being superior, as it is easy, and engages the mind without distraction. The usual is to prepare oneself through various pratiprokshanas such as bhut suddhi, pranayama, nyasa, dhyana, achaman (even sotariya achaman) etc. These will help one to focus the mind properly, and that is the essense of manasa puja. In actual physical pUja while situated in front of the Deity you may be sitting and the mind goes here and there thinking about your bank account, this and that. Therefore preparing the mind is essential to successfuly performing the pUja to the Lord. We have seen and experienced personally that without focusing the mind, by merely engaging the external senses in pUja one may do the function, even get some recognition for dresing the Archa-vighraha nicely, but the yoga that one should attain through such Ijya (worship) was not achieved. It can be easy to train anyone to follow a system and go through the motions of "worshipping the Lord" but in mAnasa pUja it is not so possible. Thus, free from lesser or possible "distracted seva" manasa's fixed or focused attention makes it higher seva.

In the process of worshiping the Deity it is sometimes enjoined that one worship the Deity within the mind. In the Padma Puräëa, Uttara-khaëòa, it is said, “All persons can generally worship within the mind.” The Gautaméya Tantra states, “For a sannyäsé who has no home, worship of the Deity within the mind is recommended.” In the Närada-païcarätra it is stated by Lord Näräyaëa that worship of the Deity within the mind is called mänasa-püjä, One can become free from the four miseries by this method. Sometimes worship from the mind can be independently executed. According to the instruction of Avirhotra Muni, one of the nava-yogendras, as mentioned in Çrémad-Bhägavatam, one may worship the Deity by chanting all the mantras. Eight kinds of Deities are mentioned in the çästra, and the mental Deity is one of them. In this regard, the following description is given in the Brahma-vaivarta Puräëa.
In the city of Pratiñöhäna-pura, long ago, there resided a brähmaëa who was poverty-stricken but innocent and not dissatisfied. One day he heard a discourse in an assembly of brähmaëas concerning how to worship the Deity in the temple. In that meeting, he also heard that the Deity may be worshiped within the mind. After this incident, the brähmaëa, having bathed in the Godävaré River, began mentally worshiping the Deity. He would wash the temple within his mind, and then in his imagination he would bring water from all the sacred rivers in golden and silver waterpots. He collected all kinds of valuable paraphernalia for worship, and he worshiped the Deity very gorgeously, beginning from bathing the Deity and ending with offering ärati. Thus he felt great happiness. After many years had passed in this way, one day within his mind he cooked nice sweet rice with ghee to worship the Deity. He placed the sweet rice on a golden dish and offered it to Lord Kåñëa, but he felt that the sweet rice was very hot, and therefore he touched it with his finger. He immediately felt that his finger had been burned by the hot sweet rice, and thus he began to lament. While the brähmaëa was in pain, Lord Viñëu in Vaikuëöha began smiling, and the goddess of fortune inquired from the Lord why He was smiling. Lord Viñëu then ordered His associates to bring the brähmaëa to Vaikuëöha. Thus the brähmaëa attained the liberation of sämépya, the facility of living near the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad. Srimad Bhagavatam 7:5:23-24. purport excerpt.)

Similarly there's a story about a great devotee of Lord Shiva who practiced manasa puja: In thamizhnADu there is place called thiruninRavUr. In that place there lived a brahmana called pUsalar who is well trained in veda-s and agama-s. This brahmana had a burning desire. In that village there was no temple for Lord shiva and pUsalar wanted to construct a temple. Eventhough he had the desire, he did not have the material resources to support it. But pUsalar had the knowledge of building a temple for Lord shiva according to Agama vidhiH. After a long contemplation on his inability to build a temple, pUsalAr got an idea to accomplish what he desired.

pUsalAr thought even though he cannot build a temple outside, he can indeed build one in his mind. From that day onwards he started building the temple. Even though it was built in mind, he went through every step as if it built normally. Every single detail, like amout of material needed and labor required was planned carefully and executed. Finally the construction was completed. It took pUsalAr the same amount of time it will require to build the actual temple. After the completion, pUsalAr fixed an auspicious time and date for kumbAbhishekam and invited the Lord to be present and sanctify the ceremony.

It so happened that the pallava king wanted to perform kumbAbhishekam to the temple he constructed on the same date and began making aranngements for it. Lord who is present everywhere, to show the greatness of his poor devotee, appeared in the dream of the king and commanded him to change the date. Lord shiva told the king that HE is going to enter the magnificient temple built by the devotee pUsalAr in thiruninRavUr and will be not available for the king. Next day, astonished pallava king with his ministers started out to thiruninRavUr in search of pUsalAr and
the temple. After reaching thiruninRavUr, he could not find the temple or any details about it from the local people. Finally, he and his ministers, managed to locate pUsalar's house and asked him the details (after informing about the dream).

pUsalar was stunned and was overcome by waves of emotion. Tears veiled his eyes thinking about his Lord's love and grace. Finally after overcoming his emotions, when he narrated the details of his temple. The whole assembly was overcome with joy and emotion. King paid his respects to the great pUsalar and returned back to his capital. thiru pUsalAr (in tamizh thiru = shrI), as planned did the kumbabhishekam in all grandeur and daily at all six times did pUjA to Lord shiva according to the rules laid down by agAma-s.

Sometimes there's a misunderstanding that we have to artificially put ourselves into some siddha-pranali state and thus whilst still situated in a material form (this stoola sarira - linga sarira) try to rise above it's demands extraniously. The fact of the matter is that to attain constant absorbtion one starts with absorbtion. The process is stated that by some faith (sradha) we engage in associating with like minded devotees (sadhu sanga) by such sat sanga naturally devotional activities take place (bhajana kriya - sravanam kritanam vishnu smaranam using all the paraphernalia of any of them in the Lord's service), to do that requires that we avoid items or behaviour that is not condusive to the progression and maintainance of the Lord's service (anartha nirvritti - removing unwanted things from our association/hearts). By so following this naturaly organic process one will become fixed (nistha) that steadiness in constant absorbtion will allow a taste (ruchi) to develop. As the flower of ruci blossoms into 100% fixation on service to Krishna and 100% negation of anything that brings one to material consciousness asakti or trascendentalism is born. This is real Krishna Consciousness, this is the state we aspire for. It cannot be attained cheaply.

[ChiefCowpie]

Further more when we are doing such puja it is not that we try to try and visualize ourselves/myself rendering service to Krishna artificially; rather through our understanding of dhyana we just visualize the bona fide lila descriptions of the Divine pastimes of the Lord. We cannot forcibly enter into those pastimes in our present state, it is not possible. But through manasa pUja one can and does experience the very same activities that the Deity has done by engaging the mind in such processes as mentioned abouve. As for actual seva pUja seva we have in reading and discussion heard that rather than seeing oneself in the picture, of what I'm doing with Krishna or what I'm offering to Krishna, or any of those that focus us in the centre, we have been told that the process is, and have experienced such that to only "visualize my delicate hands" when performing service, and otherwise be an observer of the bona fide revealed and established Lilas. For the Lord resides in His approved Deity forms in His eternal lilas, He makes Himself available to us to render service to through the system of service in practice, vaidhi bhakti. Anything else would be artificial whilst in the present jada prakrita-bhakta condition, without knowing my/our eternal Sthayi-bhava awareness of our identity, being outside of "Nitya-lila".

As stated in Bhagavad Gita:

karmendriyani samyamya
ya aste manasa smaran
indriyarthan vimudhatma
mithyacarah sa ucyate

TRANSLATION
One who restrains the senses of action but whose mind dwells on sense objects certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender. (BG 3:6.)

yas tv indriyani manasa
niyamyarabhate 'rjuna
karmendriyaih karma-yogam
asaktah sa visisyate

TRANSLATION
On the other hand, if a sincere person tries to control the active senses by the mind and begins karma-yoga [in Krishna consciousness] without attachment, he is by far superior. (BG 3:7.)

Similar process is described in the Srimad Bhagavatam 3:28:5-7:

TEXT 5
maunam sad-asana jayah
sthairyam prana jayah sanaih
pratyaharas cendriyanam
visayan manasa hrdi

TRANSLATION
One must observe silence, acquire steadiness by practicing different yogic postures, control the breathing of the vital air, withdraw the senses from sense objects and thus concentrate the mind on the heart.

TEXT 6
sva-dhisnyanam eka-dese
manasa prana-dharanam
vaikuntha-lilabhidhyanam
samadhanam tathatmanah

TRANSLATION
Fixing the vital air and the mind in one of the six circles of vital air circulation within the body, thus concentrating one's mind on the transcendental pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is called samadhi, or samadhana, of the mind.

TEXT 7
etair anyais ca pathibhir
mano dustam asat-patham
buddhya yunjita sanakair
jita-prano hy atandritah

TRANSLATION
By these processes, or any other true process, one must control the contaminated, unbridled mind, which is always attracted by material enjoyment, and thus fix himself in thought of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So, and in great humility knowing my great lacking in understanding and realisation in this topic, I try to pass on something of what I have been told regarding such focused and singleminded pUjas, "...try now before death so that your understanding of Nitya-lila and serving without a material body will have already become attractive to your heart and you will simply enter at death a state of consciousness which you are already familiar with and even attracted too."

MÂNASA DEHA GEHA

(1)

mânasa deha, geha, jo kichu mor (A III G A III A M7 I Bm I A I)

arpilû tuwâ pade, nanda-kisor! (Fm I Bm I E D M7 E A ) (h)

(2)

sampade vipade, jîvane-marane (E I Fm I D A 7 I BmA) (h)

dây mama gelâ, towâ o-pada barane (A G I A I Bm D A) (h)

(3)

mârobi râkhobi - jo icchâ tohârâ (A III G A III A M7 I Bm I A I)

nitya-dâsa prati tuwâ adhikârâ(Fm I Bm I E D M7 E A ) (h)

(4)

janmâobi moe icchâ jadi tor (E I Fm I D A 7 I BmA) (h)

bhakta-grhe jani janma hau mor (A G I A I Bm D A) (h)

(5)

kîta janma hau jathâ tuwâ dâs (A III G A III A M7 I Bm I A I)

bahir mukha brahma-janme nâhi âs (Fm I Bm I E D M7 E A ) (h)

(6)

bhukti-mukti-sprhâ vihîna je bhaktah (E I Fm I D A 7 I BmA) (h)

labhaite tâko sanga anurakta (A G I A I Bm D A) (h)

(7)

janaka, jananî, dayata, tanay (A III G A IIIA M7 I Bm I A I)

prabhu, guru, pati - tuhû sarva-moy (Fm I Bm I E D M7 E A ) (h)

(8)

bhakativinoda kohe, suno kâna! (E I Fm I D A 7 I BmA) (h)

râdhâ-nâtha! tuhû hâmâra parâna (A G I A I Bm D A) (h)



(chords harmonium)






Translation

Mind, Body and Family

1)

Mind, body, and family, whatever may be mine, I have surrendered atYour lotus feet, O youthful son of Nanda!

2)

In good fortune or in bad, in life or at death, all my difficulties have disappeared by choosing those feet of Yours as my only shelter.

3)

Slay me or protect me as You wish, for You are the master of Your eternal servant.

4)

If it is Your will that I be born again, then may it be in the home of Your devotee.

5)

May I be born again even as a worm, so long as I may remain Your devotee. I have no desire to be born as a Brahma averse to You.

6)

I yearn for the company of that devotee who is completely devoid of all desire for worldly enjoyment or liberation.

7)

Father, mother, lover, son, Lord, preceptor, and husband; You are everything to me.

8) Thakura Bhaktivinoda says, "O Kana, please hear me! O Lord of Radha, You are my life and soul!"

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

If you ever get the chance... get this album Breath of the Heart by Krishna Das... its absolutely and it is laced with the many names of Sri Krsna and the maha mantra is everywhere...its soo beautiful...

This is the track listing...

1- Baba Hanuman
2- Kainchi Hare Krishna
3- Ma Durga
4- Kashi Vishwanath Gange
5- Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya
6- Brindavan Hare Ram

I came upon it by accident yesterday in the library...and I must say its a beautiful and fortunate accident :)

[BlackBillBlake]

all the residents of vrndavana think of Krishna as "my Krishna"
Yes, but they are not ordinary, conditioned beings. They are mad with love for Krishna. And even if they think 'my Krishna', its the self same Krishna they're all thinking of.
What I mean is that the absolute truth, Brahman, is 'one without a second'. Truth is truth; the individual understanding of Truth is relative, unless one is fully realized.

[ChiefCowpie]

i love Krishna dasa's recordings...i have them all...
http://www.krishnadas.com/main/main.html

if possible, get his cd "Pilgrim Heart" or "Live on Earth"

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I might just...I absolutely love the one I'm listening to right now...I esp love Kainchi Hare Krishna...the way that he presents the maha mantra is soo beautiful and joyous... :)

[BlackBillBlake]

On the subject of music, I like 'Krishna Lila' by Cheb i Sabbah -


You can get info on this at

www.chebisabbah.com/ (http://www.chebisabbah.com/)

A blend of traditional Indian, and modern electronic - and a very successful one in my opinion.

[jailmate]

Allah haz spoken 4 Ohshama, an Ih type this 4 the ultimate religion.


one religion HAIR

[ChiefCowpie]

agree Black Bill, the brijabhasis think "my Krishna" but the experience is one of "our Krishna" all are swimming in a joyous love while the conditioned sectarianist thinks "my God" and all over the world, all the my God's battle in war

it will be a great step towards world peace when all see that "my God" is "our God"

[ChiefCowpie]

On the subject of music, I like 'Krishna Lila' by Cheb i Sabbah -


You can get info on this at

www.chebisabbah.com/ (http://www.chebisabbah.com/)

A blend of traditional Indian, and modern electronic - and a very successful one in my opinion.
gracias...i'm always looking for new music...will check out

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

agree Black Bill, the brijabhasis think "my Krishna" but the experience is one of "our Krishna" all are swimming in a joyous love while the conditioned sectarianist thinks "my God" and all over the world, all the my God's battle in war

it will be a great step towards world peace when all see that "my God" is "our God"
I agree. :)

[sleeping jiva]

Nitai: "Thus consciously engaged in devotional service in the association of devotees, a person gains distaste for sense gratification, both in this world and in the next, by constantly thinking about the activities of the Lord. This process of Krishna consciousness is the easiest process of mystic power; when one is actually situated on that path of devotional service, he is able to control the mind."

Prabhupada:



bhaktya puman jata-viraga aindriyad
drsta-srutan mad-racananucintaya
cittasya yatto grahane yoga-yukto
yatisyate rjubhir yoga-margaih


So the whole process of understanding the Absolute Truth... Absolute Truth means the Supreme Person, the Supreme Being, Absolute. There is no contradictory. Krsna and Krsna's name, Krsna's form, Krsna's activities, Krsna's paraphernalia, Krsna's attributes--everything Krsna. That is called Absolute Truth. There is no difference. Krsna and Krsna's form is not different. Krsna's hand and Krsna's leg not different. Just like we have got difference: this left hand is different from the right hand; the nose is different from the ear. We have got. Because this is called sagata-vigata-vibheda(?). Krsna hasn't got that thing. That is called Absolute. It is stated in the Brahma-samhita, angani yasya sakalendriya-vrttimanti. Angani, we have got different parts of the body, limbs, for different purposes. But Krsna can serve any purpose from any limbs of His body. Krsna can eat by seeing only. Krsna can go by thinking only. There are so many description that Krsna is Absolute. So these contradictory things, how one can understand of the Absolute? He is absolute, advaya-jnana. Absolute means no duality; everything is one.

So viraga, bhaktya puman jata-viraga aindriyad. Here our material disease is that we want to satisfy our sense. This is material life. The whole material civilization is going on, we have repeatedly said... Advancement of civilization means advancement of sense gratification. That's all. So bhakti means just the opposite. So, so long we are, I mean to say, very much interested in sense gratification, there is no question of bhakti. That is not possible. So we have to reduce the tendency for sense gratification by increasing our devotional activities. That is the process. Therefore it is said, bhaktya puman jata-viraga. Viraga, from where? Viraga means distasteful. Virakti. The other word is virakti: "No, no, I don't like." That is called viraga.

Raga means attachment, and vi means vigata. Vigata-raga. And from viraga--vairagya. Jnana-vairagya. This is wanted. Human life is meant for jnana and vairagya. Two things required. We are continuing this material existence on account of raga, attachment, attachment for sense gratification. That is the cause of material bondage. Material bondage means, we have explained several times, to accept one body, then create another body. We have got now this human form of body, and according to our, I mean to say, affection or infection to different qualities of the nature, we are creating another body. So in this way we are entangled. So unless we become viraga, viraga aindriyat, sense gratification... These different changes of body are being possible on account of sense gratification. Nature or God or Krsna will give me full facility. Just like in the Western countries especially, they are now trying to become naked, nudies. So nature will give them to stand naked like a tree, or tree, for many years. "You are so fond of become nudie. All right, you stand up here for ten thousand years without any dress." Nature will give you. Those who have no discrimination for eating--"Anything, damn rascal, let me. Give me. I will eat it"--"All right, then you can take the body of a pig and eat up to stool."

So nature will give you. Karanam guna-sango 'sya.



purusah prakrti-stho hi
bhunkte prakrti-jan gunan
karanam guna-sango 'sya
sad-asad-yoni-janmasu


Why we are getting different bodies? Because we have got different tendency for sense gratification. Indriya, aindriyat. This is the disease, material disease. Everyone has got tendency for sense gratification, but not all of them of the same type. They have got different types. So our material bondage means these different types of sense gratification. Therefore we have to stop this. We have to be detestful from this sense gratification. Then our spiritual life will begin. That is possible by bhakti.

Therefore here it is said, bhaktya puman jata-viraga. Bhakti is so powerful that if you engage yourself in the bhakti-marga or bhakti-yoga... Here it is said, rjubhir yoga-margaih. Rjubhih means very easy to perform. How? Now, drsta-srutan mad-racananucintaya. Drsta. You can see Krsna. Krsna is kind enough. Although Krsna is beyond our vision--we cannot see with these eyes Krsna--but Krsna has agreed to be seen by you or by us. How? He has assumed this arca-vigraha. Krsna, this vigraha--don't think it is stone. Even it is stone you think, but Krsna can become visible before you like a stone, because you cannot see beyond stone. That is Krsna's mercy. Because your eyes or senses are so imperfect that you cannot see Krsna present everywhere in His original spiritual... We have got difference between spiritual and material. We have got because we are imperfect. But Krsna has no such distinction. Because He is Absolute, He can become spiritual, He can become material, as He likes. That does not make any difference of Krsna. Then how Krsna is almighty, all-powerful? He can change matter into spirit, spirit into matter. That is Krsna. So don't think that, as the atheist class men, they think, that "They are worshiping an idol." Even it is an idol, still Krsna. That is absolute. That is absolute nature of Krsna. Even you think it is stone, it is metal, it is wood, still, He is Krsna.

So how He is Krsna, that will require your bhakti. Here it is said, bhaktya, anucintaya. If you are thoughtful, if you are philosopher, and plus bhakti, then you will understand that even Krsna is present here just like a stone, but stone is also Krsna. How stone is also Krsna? Now, Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita,



bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh
kham mano buddhir eva ca
ahankara itiyam me
bhinna prakrtir astadha


Me prakrtih: "It is My nature." Bhinna me prakrtir astadha. So stone is another formation of earth. Earth, water, air, sky, mind, intelligence--they're all Krsna. Because Krsna says, bhinna me prakrtir astadha. (aside)That's all right. Get up. Nothing is different from Krsna. Everything is Krsna's energy. The Mayavadi philosophers, they think that "Because everything is God, everything is Krsna, then where is Krsna? Krsna is finished." But actually that is not. Krsna is Krsna; at the same time, He is everything. That is Krsna. That we can understand by bhakti. Therefore it is said, bhaktya. Bhaktya. In Bhagavad-gita also, Krsna said, bhaktya mam abhijanati. These things can be understood not by ordinary person without any devotion. One who is bhakta, he can understand that Krsna is everything and everything is Krsna. Krsna is everything--that is drsta. When a bhakta sees a tree, he sees Krsna. That is bhakta's vision.

It is explained in the Caitanya-caritamrta,



sthavara-jangama dekhe na dekhe tara murti
sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti


A devotee, sthavara-jangama... Sthavara means which cannot move. Just like tree, it cannot move, or a mountain, it does not move. And jangama means moving. Just like we are moving, animals are moving, and other, so many other, living entities, they are moving. So a advanced devotee, he sees both of them, the standing, immovable and movable, but he does not see immovable or movable; he sees Krsna. There is another statement in the Brahma-samhita, premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti. Sadaiva means always. Sada eva, sadaiva. Who sees? Now, one who is devotee, one who is fully absorbed in love of Godhead, premanjana-cchurita, or whose eyes are anointed with love of Godhead. Not this eye. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilo... That bhakti required. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. Santah, saintly person, sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti. That is the position of santah, always seeing Krsna. He does not see anything else except Krsna everywhere, but in everything, everywhere, the energy of Krsna.

[sleeping jiva]

I will give you a practical example. If you love your child, if you see the shoe of the child, immediately you see your child. If you see the toy of your child, you see your child immediately. If you hear the voice of your child, immediately you see the child. This is practical. Similarly, if you have actually developed love of Krsna... And Krsna has explained that everything is expansion of His energy; therefore nothing exists except Krsna. And if you have developed your love for Krsna, whatever you see, you will see Krsna. That is called bhaktya. Bhaktya, drsta, and sruta. Sruta means Vedic literature, sruti. You hear from authentic literature. Just like in the Brahma-samhita it is stated, cintamani-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrksa-laksavrtesu surabhir abhipalayantam. Now, apart from Brahma-samhita, we have heard, devotees have heard, that Krsna in Vrndavana used to go with His cowherd boyfriends in the pasturing ground. So hundreds and thousands of devotees are there in Vrndavana. They have not seen, but they have heard. They have not practically seen, but they have heard only. And they have seen the picture of Krsna with His boys, cowherd boys, or gopi friends. So a devotee can see and hear and immediately realize Krsna. That is possible because he has developed love. Premanjana-cchurita.

Unless one is advanced in krsna-prema, love of Krsna, he cannot see. He cannot understand. There is another verse in the Srimad... Atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih. So these blunt senses... By these blunt senses even we cannot understand what is the name of Krsna, why these people are chanting Hare Krsna. We cannot understand. Atah sri-krsna-nam... Because Krsna realization begins from the name. Therefore name, Krsna's name, and Krsna is not different, absolute, but we cannot realize. But the practice, if you practice chanting Hare Krsna, then you will realize. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah. When you actually, in devotional attitude, chant Hare Krsna mantra... Therefore it is advised that you should avoid the offenses in chanting. Then you will... By simply chanting Hare Krsna mantra, you will realize. Atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih, sevonmukhe hi jihvadau. Jihvadau. Now, krsna-bhakti begins from jihva, from the tongue. People will be surprised, "How is that?" Yes. You can utilize your tongue simply by chanting and tasting krsna-prasadam. Then you will become krsna-bhakta.

Therefore it is so easy. Susukham kartum avyayam, in the Bhagavad-gita. Susukham kartum avyayam. To execute devotional service it is very easy and susukham, very nice and pleasing also. Just like this chanting and dancing. Even the child takes pleasure, what to speak of others? Others may be sophisticated, but a child is not sophisticated. When there is dancing and chanting, a child comes in front and he dances. Unless he feels pleasure, how does he do it? This is practical. He has not been taught, but he comes. As soon as he comes, he also takes part with the elderly person, chanting and dancing. And if you give him prasadam, he will also accept. Anyone will accept. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said susukham and kartum avyayam. Kartum avyayam. Avyayam means whatever little service you render, that is permanent settlement. If you come here and dance and chant or ring the bell or anything about the aratrika, if you see, drsta--anything you do, that is your permanent credit.

Therefore, for the common man, this chance is given. This temple is meant for that purpose, that people will come see the Deity. The Deity is Krsna. Don't think otherwise. Krsna has agreed to be dressed by you. If you think of Krsna, about His virad-rupa, you will fail to bring dress for that virad-rupa. His head is on the sky; another leg is on the Patala. That is also true. But you cannot conceive of Krsna in His virad-rupa and at the same time dress Him and give Him something to eat. That is not possible. Therefore Krsna has become so merciful. Here, of course, the Deity is very big. Not very big. In Hyderabad we have got three times bigger Deity, like... But you can have a small Deity. Many Vaisnava, they carry Deity with them, a small Deity in a small box, and they worship. So Krsna... Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan. He can become bigger than the biggest and the smaller than the smallest. That is Krsna.

[sleeping jiva]

So real thing is bhakti, bhaktya. Therefore it is said, bhaktya puman jata-viraga aindriyat. And the more you serve Krsna, serve Krsna... You give Krsna to eat; you give Krsna to be dressed nicely. Then you will forget dressing of yourself. Now see these devotees. They are dressing Krsna so nicely, they are satisfied with that dressing of Krsna. They are not very much busy for dressing themselves. This is bhakti-yoga, viraga. Everyone is very busy how to dress himself very nicely so that he may be attractive, but if you try to dress Krsna nicely, then you will forget yourself how to dress nicely. Is it not practical? Anyone will agree. These Vaisnavas, these boys, they are young boys. The girls, they are... They don't care for their dress because they are dressing Krsna. This is the way. You dress Krsna nicely. You give Krsna nice foodstuff. Then you will forget, "Oh, I will have to satisfy my tongue in this way and that way, by chop, by cutlet, by going to restaurant." You will forget. Therefore it is called bhaktya puman jata-viraga aindriyat. The materialistic persons, they are simply busy for satisfying the senses. Go to the hotel; satisfy the tongue. Go to the cinema; hear the cinema song, see nice girls, and so on, so on. But these devotees, they are not interested at all. The cinema is here, a few steps away, but you will never see a student or a disciple of Krsna consciousness will go to that nonsense place. Practical you can see. Why it has become possible? Bhaktya puman jata-viraga aindriyat. It is practical. The more you engage yourself in devotional service, the more you will forget your sense gratification process. And as soon as you become completely detestful for sense gratification, then you are liberated person, fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. This is the process.

So the bhakti gives you chance to see Krsna, as you can see now. On this seeing or any other kind of seeing, they are the same thing. There is no difference. When Arjuna was seeing Krsna face to face--Krsna was teaching Bhagavad-gita--that seeing of Krsna and when you read Bhagavad-gita, it is the same thing. There is no difference. Somebody, they say that "Arjuna was fortunate enough to see Krsna face to face and take instruction." That is not correct. Krsna, He can be seen immediately, provided you have got eyes to see. Therefore it is said, premanjana-cchurita... Prema and bhakti, the same thing. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti. I will recite one story in this connection, that one brahmana in South India, in Ranganatha temple, he was reading Bhagavad-gita. And he was illiterate. He did not know neither Sanskrit nor any letter, illiterate. So the people, neighborhood, they knew that "This man is illiterate, and he is reading Bhagavad-gita." He is opening the Bhagavad-gita, "Uh, uh," like that he was. So somebody was joking, "Well, brahmana, how you are reading Bhagavad-gita?" He could understand that "This man is joking because I am illiterate." So in this way, Caitanya Mahaprabhu also happened to be that day in the Ranganatha temple, and He could understand that "Here is a devotee." So He approached him and He asked, "My dear brahmana, what you are reading?" So he could also understand that "This man is not joking." So he said, "Sir, I am reading Bhagavad-gita. I am trying to read Bhagavad-gita, but I am illiterate. So my Guru Maharaja said that 'You must read eighteen chapters daily.' So I have no knowledge. I cannot read. Still, Guru Maharaja said, so I am just trying to carry out his order and opening the pages, and that's all. I do not know how to read it." Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that "You are crying sometimes, I see." Then, "Yes, I am crying." "How you are crying if you cannot read?" "No, because when I take this Bhagavad-gita book, I see one picture, that Krsna is so kind that He has taken the chariot driver, sarathi, of Arjuna. He is His devotee. So Sri Krsna is so kind that He can accept the position of a servant because Arjuna was ordering, 'Keep my chariot here,' and Krsna was serving him. So Krsna is so kind. So when I see this picture within my mind, I am crying." So Caitanya Mahaprabhu immediately embraced him, that "You are reading Bhagavad-gita. Without any education, you are reading Bhagavad-gita." He embraced him.

So this is... How he was seeing the picture? Because he was a lover of Krsna, it doesn't matter, he could read these slokas or not. But he was absorbed in love of Krsna and he was seeing, Krsna was sitting there, and He was driving the chariot of Arjuna. This is required, not that education. Bhaktya mam abhijanati. Krsna said, "Not by passing M.A., Ph.D." Bhaktya: "Simply by bhakti." Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah. And bhaktya, the practical example, if you become pure bhakta, then you will forget all this material sense enjoyment. Bhaktih paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra syat. This is the test of bhakti. But if you have got taste for material enjoyment and at the same time you advertise yourself that you have become a bhakta, that is not bhakta. One who knows who is a bhakta, immediately detect that "Here is not a bhakta." Ei dharma dadi.(?) He has got the tilaka and kanthi simply for advertisement. He is not a bhakta, because he has got material taste.

So the bhakti means bhaktya puman jata-viraga aindriyat. From indriya, this word has come, aindriya, "pertaining to indriya." Everyone in this material world is engaged in sense gratification. That is the only... The cats, dogs and so-called civilized man is simply nunam pramattah kurute vikarma, doing all kinds of sinful activities. Why? Yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti, simply for sense gratification. Simply for sense grat... This is material world. And spiritual world means there is no question of sense gratification. Simply they want to satisfy Krsna. That is spiritual world. Just like Vrndavana. What is the picture of Vrndavana? Vrndavana means there mother Yasoda, Nanda Maharaja, the Radharani, the gopis, the cowherds boys, Sridama, Sudama, the land, the water, the trees, the birds--everyone is trying to satisfy Krsna. That is Vrndavana. Vrndavana means nothing. When Krsna left Vrndavana for Mathura, all of them become dead. That is Vrndavana. Similarly, you can live always in Vrndavana, always in Vaikuntha, if you are mad after Krsna. That was the teachings of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. By His practical example, He showed. When He was in Jagannatha Puri, He was mad always, day and night. Last twelve years of His life was passed in madness. Sometimes He was falling down on the sea, sometimes somewhere, sometime, day and night, just like mad. ^

So of course, that is not possible. But that is sunyayitam jagat sarvam. When you will find everything vacant, govinda-virahena me, without Govinda, that is the highest state of devotional service. But that is possible. That is possible, that bhaktya puman jata-viraga aindriyad drsta-srutan mad-racananucintaya. If you become a bhaktya, you will find... Anything, creation, you will find Krsna's intelligence. If you take one flower and see the constitution, how this flower is made, how the color is displayed, how it has come into existence, if we are intelligent, we can see Krsna's racananucintaya, how Krsna has created intelligently. That is premanjana-cchuri... Actually, it is created by Krsna. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate. Don't think like rascal, "It has come out automatically." Does thing come outs automatically? Why not your luci, puri, and everything comes automatically? Why you have to take so much trouble? No automatically. It has Krsna's hand, but you cannot see. You cannot see. But those who are learned, they can see. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki jnana. This is the Vedic instruction. Everything, in every creation, there is hand of the Supreme Lord. Isavasyam idam sarvam. But one who has got eyes to see, he can see Krsna, anucintaya, by thinking, by thoughtful, not like rascal, "It has come automatically." Why? Nothing comes automatically. How it comes automatically? That is rascaldom. It has come through the intelligence of Krsna. But His power is so fine and so accurate that svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca. If you paint one picture of flower, you will have to arrange for so many things. Still, it will not be perfect. And this flower has come so perfectly. Does it mean there was no brain behind it? You nonsense. There is brain. And Krsna says that mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram: "Don't think prakrti, nature, is working automatically, no. Under My direction." So one has to eye, one has to develop that eye. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. Then one can see how things are going on. That is required, bhaktya. Bhaktya puman jata-viraga aindriyat. This will be possible. ^

So as you engage your indriyas, senses, in the service of Krsna, so it is very easy, that first of all you engage your tongue. Chant Hare Krsna and eat bhagavat-prasada! You will become perfect. Nothing, no other things required. That we are doing. We are distributing prasada and engaging people, "Chant Hare Krsna." This is Krsna consciousness.

Thank you very much. (end)

[741126SB.BOM] Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.25.26 Bombay, November 26, 1974 His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

listen to Prabhupada's lecture here:
http://www.krishna.org/RealAudio/74/74_102_A.ram

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

This was posted on a community and shared with me...its a very lovely article about the history of the Hare Krishna Movement...so I thought I'd share http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Who are the Hare Krishnas?

"Wanna buy a flower?"

That's a phrase many of us are familiar with. Collectively we imagine some thin, bald white guy in saffron robes standing at the airport as he asks that very question. We know these people as the "Hare Krishnas". We have seen them in the airports and on the street corners dancing with tambourines and bells. We have seen them selling flowers, books, and even in some cases, baseball caps. If you listen to a Christian preacher speaking about cults invariably he will mention the Hare Krishnas. Yet, your average American can't tell you what these people believe. Are they really some 60s cult? Why the singing and dancing? Why don't they get a real job? Who are these people?

The Movement Comes to the West

If you ask these questions to the average American you will get many different answers. Most believe the Hare Krishnas originated in the 1960s as a product of the hippy movement. In truth the Hare Krishna movement was brought to the West in the 60s. A sixty-nine year old Indian swami (a teacher who has brought his senses under his control) by the name of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (picture here (http://www.iskcon.com/images/sp1.jpg)), or Srila Prabhupada for short, travelled to America in order to fulfill the orders he received from his own spiritual master some forty three years before.

His orders were to bring what he termed the "Krishna consciousness movement" to the West. So, with 40 rupees (slightly over $7 US), a box of dry cereal, one suitcase, and 5 cases that contained 200 copies of Srimad Bhagavatam first canto in three parts, Srila Prabhupada arrived on the cargo ship the Jaladuta at Boston's Commonwealth Pier on September 17th, 1965. During the 35 day journey on this steamship, Prabhupada had suffered not one but two heart attacks only to arrive at Boston Harbor with no contacts or supporters and what he later described as "hardly a day's spending money".

Sri Caitanya introduces the Maha Mantra

Srila Prabhupada was a guru, a spiritual master, who was the thirty-third guru in a disciplic succession that goes all the way back to the original form of God, Krishna, who visited India some 5,000 years ago. More recently in the lineage, Srila Prabhupada is the eleventh guru in disciplic succession from an incarnation of God known as Sri Caitanya who appeared in Mayapur, a quarter of the city of Navadvipa, India in the year 1486. Sri Caitanya swept aside the suffocating restrictions of the caste system and taught that love of God was possible for all people, no matter their caste or station in life. He taught that by the chanting of the holy names of God any person could develop love of God and eventually return back to the spiritual world. In his words,"harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha" which translates as "In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy, the only means of deliverance is the chanting of the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way. There is no other way. There is no other way."

To facilitate the chanting of the names of God, Sri Caitanya delivered a mantra to the people that is called the "Maha Mantra" which means "great chant". The Maha Mantra is composed of several holy names of God and is as follows: "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare. Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare." It was the chanting of this mantra in the West that quickly caused Srila Prabhupada and his followers to be nicknamed "the Hare Krishnas".

The Gaudiya Vaisnava Movement is Born

As Sri Caitanya's movement caught on in Navadvipa, the local Muslim ruler by the name of Chand Kazi began to believe that the Krishna consciousness movement threatened the established order and therefore the peace of Navadvipa. He ordered his constables to raid the home of one of Caitanya's followers where they smashed the drums used during the chanting of the Maha Mantra. Then he outlawed the chanting and threatened to severely punish any that were found to disobey within the city. Upon hearing this, Sri Caitanya ordered the largest nonviolent act of civil disobedience that had ever been staged in India up to this time. At a prearranged date and time Sri Caitanya, along with one hundred thousand followers, flooded the streets of Navadvipa bringing the city to a screeching halt. As they danced through the city the sounds of the Maha Mantra reached a deafening roar.

This impromptu parade finally converged upon the palace of the Kazi who hid inside out of fear. At the request of Sri Caitanya, the Kazi appeared in order to carry out negotiations. Presenting a calm and logical argument, Sri Caitanya not only convinced the Kazi of their benevolence but eventually even made a convert of him. To this day the followers of Sri Caitanya visit the tomb of the Kazi and pay their respects. Even during Hindu-Muslim riots the chanting of the holy names was allowed within the city limits of Navadvipa. The branch of Hinduism that the followers of Vishnu (Krishna) belong to is called Vaisnavism. So, since the city of Navadvipa is in the Gauda region of India, his followers became known as Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Gaudiya Vaisnavism is the correct term for the "Hare Krishna movement".

Why Srila Prabhupada Brought the Movement to the West

The holy scriptures that Vaisnavas follow were written down 5,000 years ago after the advent of Krishna. These scriptures are called the vedas and instead of promoting a religion they promote a culture, a way of life commonly referred to as vedic culture or Krishna consciousness. It is this culture that Srila Prabhupada travelled across the ocean to bring to the West. He often lamented that in the West men are taught from vast storehouses of knowledge dealing with technology and science, but no one was teaching how to love God.

The hippy movement was evidence that even though the United States was the richest country in the world materially, it was spiritually bankrupt. People were taught they should love God but never given any clear instructions on how to develop that love of God. Therefore he brought the Krishna consciousness movement to a civilization yearning for spiritual knowledge and direction. Since the Krishna consciousness movement was not a religion but the science leading to love of God, Srila Prabhupada felt confident that he could teach the Westerners to love God, whether they called God by Allah, Jehovah, or any other of his many names.

In vedic society there are four "divisions of work" as set out by Lord Krishna: the brahmanas (priests), the ksatriyas (warriors/administrators), the vaisyas (farmers and merchants), and the sudras (workers). Srila Prabhupada was intent on not only distributing the knowledge of Krishna consciousness to the masses, but upon injecting the class of brahmana into western society. If the priesthood was alive and operating within western society then by their actions and dissemination of knowledge they could help lay the groundwork to introduce the other classes into western society as well.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Brahminical Culture is Introduced

Srila Prabhupada soon started an organization he named the International Society of Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON (http://www.iskcon.com/)) and went about establishing temples throughout the West to act as preaching centers for the dissemination of knowledge and spiritual insight. The brahmanas would live in these temples and rely on Krishna for their sustenance. If someone hears the holy names of God or gives in charity to the brahmanas to further Krishna consciousness they are rewarded spiritually and can progress in their journey back to God. So the priests would go out daily preaching, chanting the Holy names, distributing literature and accepting donations for the good of all.

Soon you saw these priests in airports and on street corners practically everywhere. They wore the traditional clothing and hairstyle as described in vedic literature. The color of the robe they wore was saffron indicating their celibacy and renunciation or, if the person was married or seeking marriage, white. They would shave their heads but leave a ponytail in back called a sikha. This was not only for cleanliness but indicated the person's submission to guru and the vedas. The hair is the crown of the head and by shaving it in such a way it showed that the person was more interested in cultivating spiritual life than fulfilling the desires of the flesh. (This hairstyle was even seen in early christianity which a sculpture (http://www.vnn.org/world/WD9903/sikha2.gif) in the Cathedral of Notre Dame from c. 1300 makes evident). Like Sri Caitanya and his associates 500 years before, these priests would dance and sing the Maha Mantra. The class of worker known as the brahmana had officially arrived in the West.

The Disappearance Day of Prabhupada and His Movement Now

After preaching in the West for eleven years, Srila Prabhupada passed away on November 14, 1977 at the age of 80. Devotees of Krishna say that was his "disappearance day" and do not say he died because, in actuality, since the soul is eternal, no one ever dies. By the date of his disappearance, Srila Prabhupada had translated and written commentary to the 18,000 verses of the Srimad Bhagavatam (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.com/), the 700 verses of the Bhagavad Gita (http://www.asitis.com/) and the 11,555 verses of the Caitanya Caritamrta. He had created a monthly magazine, Back to Godhead (http://www.krishna.com/newsite/main.php?id=306), which at one point had a monthly distribution of over 1 million copies. He had initiated over 5,000 devotees, written over 7,000 letters to those disciples, established 108 temples across the world, travelled around the world 12 times and published 147 books (http://www.krishna.com/newsite/main.php?id=33), among many other things.

An article in the New York Times from 1998 estimates there are one million ISKCON devotees around the world. The major religion in Fiji is the Hare Krishna movement. Food for Life (http://www.ffl.org/), which is the ISKCON food relief program, exists in over 60 countries and serves over 70,000 free meals daily. It is the largest vegetarian food relief program in the world. These days, brahmanas are in the minority in the Krishna consciousness movement. Your average Hare Krishna looks just like anyone else. As a matter of fact, you could even count the great grandson of Henry Ford among their ranks. One thing is for certain: these are the Hare Krishnas...and they're here to stay.
(About the Author: The author is the webmaster of his local ISKCON temple website (http://www.iskcon-nola.org/) and is aspiring to one day take initiation from the guru His Holiness Bir Krishna Maharaj (http://www.bkgoswami.com/)).

[ChiefCowpie]

Soon you saw these priests in airports and on street corners practically everywhere. They wore the traditional clothing and hairstyle as described in vedic literature. The color of the robe they wore was saffron indicating their celibacy and renunciation or, if the person was married or seeking marriage, white.for the record, maybe in the beginning the devotees wore their traditional garb but by the 1973, male devotees were wearing wigs and going in western garb at the airports and wherever they went so they were not recognizable as being devotees by appearance...and too, sold books without the buyer realizing what they bought...women as well wore western garb and so too were not recognizable as devotees... and too, while they did hand out flowers to raise money, if one failed to give a donation, the flower was asked to be returned...such fund raising practices drew much criticism both within and outiside of Iskcon...today, such practices are no longer used

[ChiefCowpie]

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Bhakti Caru Swami and Book Distribution

"If there is any finger pointing to be done it should be toward those who created all the horrible scandals. To blame Swami Tripurari and other sincere book distributors for the bad reputation of ISKCON is simply ludicrous."

January, 15, 2001
From Bhakti Caru Swami's Email conference, Istagosthi.

"Srila Prabhupada was once told about Tripurari Swami selling a book to a lady by telling her that the book was about the power shortage in California?" Guru Maharaja (Bhakti Caru Swami) said, "I don't know in what context Srila Prabhuada was told that. These are misconceptions that caused so much damage to our society. In my opinion Tripurari caused the most damage to ISKCON. He destroyed book distribution. He introduced lying, changing up, cheating...and if he is so dear to Srila Prabhupada and loves Srila Prabhupada so much, then why did he leave him? Why did he leave ISKCON? These are not personalities to follow. I know that Srila Prabhupada was a very honest and noble man."

----------------------

Response from Brahma das,
January 20, 2001

Dear Bhakti Caru Swami,

Regarding the comments above posted on your Email Conference about Sripad Swami B.V. Tripurari and book distribution. These comments reflect society consciousness at its worst. If Swami Tripurari were a Guru in ISKCON you would not have singled him out. Being outside ISKCON makes him a convenient scapegoat. How book distribution affected the popular appeal of ISKCON began long before anyone named Tripurari was generally known. I joined the movement in 1972. I walked in the temple with sleeping bag in hand at 9am and by 11am I was in the street selling BTGs, long hair and all.

Even then people did not want to be bothered and they mostly just tried to avoid us. We chanted and that sometimes drew a crowd but people never lined up to buy books with money in hand like they did in India. Prabhupada set up the movement around book distribution. We were forced to sell books to support the temples. Every day on book distribution we faced a hostile crowd. If we met a few favorable people it made our day. And this was back in 1972. On top of the local pressure to sell books, Prabhupada wanted money for the India projects and funded them through the BBT. Prabhupada knew we needed some grandeur to be widely appreciated in India and he meant to accomplish this by impressive projects.

At the same time his hardback books were piling up in the warehouses. When Tripurari das brahmacari along with others developed the techniques to sell them Prabhupada was ecstatic. He named Tripurari Maharaja "the incarnation of book distribution" and ordered him to train us all to sell his books. You allude that Prabhupad did not know what was going on in the airports and how his books were being sold. This is not a fact. Swami Tripurari was in constant contact with Prabhupad and explained to him in detail the activities at the airport. Apart from that a number of leaders complained to Prabhupada about the techniques the distributors used and that the public was being alienated by book distribution. Prabhupad dismissed all their objections and strongly brought any dissidents into line.

And you should note he never chastised Tripurari Maharaja in any way about his techniques what to speak of the things you say about him. As a matter of fact Prabhupada often talked and laughed about how the books were being sold and even mentioned the energy crises incident above. Tripurari Maharaja taught the devotees how to present that the solution for every material problem from anxiety to world crises was solved in Prabhupada's books. This did not require lying because it is a fact. Eventually all leaders enlisted Maharaja to train the book distributors in their temple or zone. And in spite of complaints from the public and still from some devotees, Prabhupada pushed us even more. Around 1976 he wrote, "Practically I am whipping them to sell books."

Personally, I was also concerned about public perception so in a Vrndavana darshan I said to Prabhupad, "I think the people don't like that we are bothering them to buy our books and asking them for money." Prabhupad replied something like, "Yes, we are giving them a book about Krishna, taking their money and using it to build this beautiful temple.Then we are inviting them all to come and enjoy it. But instead they want to keep their money, build themselves a palace, and put a fence around it and then post a sign that says 'nobody can come in.' So who is in the superior position?"

From this it was clear to me that Prabhupada knew we were alienating people but he was willing to accept this in order to get the books out, support the temples and build the India projects. And it was evident that he trusted Tripurari Maharaja enough to personally give him sannyas over the objections of the GBC who wanted him to follow the mandatory two year wait called for in their resolutions.

Looking at all this in hindsight, I agree there were excesses and we could have done things better. But even if Miss Manners herself had personally trained us in book distribution etiquette, people would still have complained and fewer books would have been sold. No one likes being continuously bothered for money and that is what we did. At the time of Prabhupada's departure the Western public generally saw us as little more than a bunch of pushy, begging religious zealots. It was after Prabhupada was gone, when the great guru scandals hit the press that public perception changed from considering us simply pushy zealots to seeing the Hare Krishnas as a religious Mafia.

And now just when those old scandals were beginning to be forgotten the worst scandal of all has erupted about the schools. If there is any finger pointing to be done it should be toward those who created all these horrible scandals. To blame Swami Tripurari and other sincere book distributors for the bad reputation of ISKCON is simply ludicrous. We should consider what ISKCON would have been like with no book distribution. ISKCON would have consisted of neophyte devotees performing sankirtana and chanting japa while living in whatever small centers they could afford by selling incense and a few books to stores. Although there is nothing wrong with this picture spiritually, it was simply not Prabhupada's idea of dynamic preaching.

[ChiefCowpie]

The grand projects that established ISKCON in India, the farms and beautiful temples in the West, as well as the prestigious international BBT with its various departments would not exist, as we know them today. Seeing things from this view I am confident that Prabhupada knew what he wanted and did what he had to do in order to see his books distributed and his great movement established. If public perception was the most important ideal to consider, than I don't believe Prabhupada would have sent us all out into the streets and airports to bother people to buy books.

I was one of those early airport distributors trained personally by Swami Tripurari. I never once regretted this service I had the privilege to perform for His Divine Grace and neither do most book distributors I know. Your sharp words against Swami Tripurari and book distribution are an insult to all that struggled under those adverse conditions to sell Prabhupada's books.

Those words should be rethought and retracted because they are untrue and reflect your incomplete knowledge of Prabhupada's feelings on the subject. Maharaja, I remember you as a very nice person with a good heart. You should also consider how those words affect the feelings of all those devotees who gave so much of themselves to fulfilling Prabhupada's desire.

It is now almost thirty years after we first began the great push to sell Bhagavad-gitas and Srimad Bhagavatams in the airports and malls of America. It was not an easy task but we did it and still most of us consider those book distribution days the best days of our lives.

Respectfully,
Brahma Das

======================

The name of the conference is: BCS Istagosthi

From: Bhakti Caru Swami
Date: 25-Jan-01
To: BCS Istagosthi

Dear readers,

Please accept my best wishes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I just got to know that the above statement (pertaining to Swami Tripurari) was printed in one of the writings by my secretary, Candrasekhar Acarya dasa. I feel extremely embarrassed that such a statement was broadcast in public. I am also extremely embarrassed that I made a statement like this. A godbrother of mine, Brahma Prabhu, wrote the above letter after reading what I said.

I am very thankful to him for correcting me. I also want to request you all not to harbor any negative opinion about Tripurari Maharaja due to my statement about him. As a matter of fact, I am in no position to say such a thing about him. During the early days of ISKCON, he was a great hero of our sankirtan movement. He was one of the pioneers of book distribution and he achieved a lot for Srila Prabhupada. From Brahma Prabhu's letter it will become obvious.

It is a pity that I forgot about all the wonderful things that Tripurari Maharaj achieved for Srila Prabhupada and made such a derogatory statement about him. I feel extremely embarrassed about my mentality and dealings.

I beg forgiveness from all the Vaisnavas whom I have offended by saying such a statement.

Bhakti Charu Swami

-------------------------------

January 25, 2001.

Dear Prabhus and Maharajas,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. All glories to Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

With straw in my mouth, I prostrate myself at the lotus feet ofHis Holiness Tripurari Maharaja and all the Vaisnavas who feel offended about my reckless and most stupid statement in the BCS istagosthi.

I recieved the greatest chastisement from my spiritual master after he found out that I had posted this statement (which he regrets deeply, as evident in his own letter of apology posted on the conference yesterday.). I have already been punished by his words, and I pray to you all not to hold a grudge against me, because without the forgiveness and good wishes of the Vaisnavas, how can I go on in spiritual life?

Again, I offer my respectful obeisances to you, your Holiness Tripurari Maharaja, as well as to all the Vaisnavas who felt offended by this statement.

I remain,

Yours in the service of Nityananda Prabhu (the forgiver of the foolish), Candrasekhar Acarya dasa,
(BCS Istagosthi Conference Secretary)

[sleeping jiva]

Who is eligible to execute devotional service, bhakti? Those who are engaged in devotional service, they are not in the material platform. We should understand that. Yato bhaktir adhoksaje ahaituky apratihata. And bhakti is not a business. Anywhere we go, there is business. "If you give me this, then I shall love you. If you satisfy my senses, then I shall love you." Similarly, the other party, he or she also says, "If you satisfy my senses, then I love you. If there is no sense gratification, then I don't love you." That is business. Therefore adhoksaje, with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there should not be any business. Ahaituki. That is called ahaituki, no cause. "Because God shall give me my bread..." As in the Christian church they go and say, "O God, give us our daily bread." That is also good because he has gone to God. The atheists, they do not like to speak of God, what to speak of praying from God. That is atheist class.

Srila Prabhupada

read and listen to the whole lecture here:
http://www.prabhupadavani.org/Bhagavatam/text/011.html

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I just wrote something when I got home from practice...and I wanted to share it...so its at your discression to read it:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/svggrdnbeauty/91360.html

Also...if you go back to my main page there's another thing that I wrote...I just figured I'd share and stuff :)

Haribol!

[sleeping jiva]

that's it. there are no limits for bhakti. :):)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

lol. You had no idea how bad I wanted to tell someone that I figured that out...lol. Like I need 'em to think I'm any weirder than usual...lol.

[sleeping jiva]

forget the people.

[sleeping jiva]

Suppose in Krsna consciousness movement, what we are doing? We are giving Krsna prasadam. We are distributing everyone, without any distinction. We don't make any distinction between daridra-narayana and a rich narayana. We give prasadam to every narayana. Of course, we do not think that everyone is Narayana. That is not our philosophy. Narayana is above. Narayanah avyaktat parah. "Narayana is not of this material world." Narayanah paro 'vyaktat. That is the version of Sankaracarya. So it is a wrong philosophy that because Narayana is everyone's heart.... Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. Narayana, or isvara, is situated in everyone's heart. That does not mean that everyone has become Narayana. This is a wrong philosophy. If you make such distinction, then why there should be daridra-narayana? There should be rich narayana. There should be chaga-narayana, matsya-narayana, every narayana. If you have got such vision that "Because Narayana is there in everyone's heart, then everyone should be addressed as Narayana..." But that should not be. That is not be. That should not be. That is insult.
If some big man, if I say, equalize him with some insignificant person, that is insult. In the sastra it is said,

Srila Prabhupada

read the whole lecture:
http://www.prabhupadavani.org/web/text/148.html

[BlackBillBlake]

This is one of my favourite stories of Krishna's childhood lila. Taken from 'Krsna - The Supreme Personality of Godhead'


Early in the morning, the gopis used to go to the bank of the Yamuna to take bath. They would assemble together, capturing each other's hands, and loudly sing of the wonderful pastimes of Krsna. It is an old system among Indian girls and women that when they take bath in the river they place their garments on the bank and dip into the water completely naked. The portion of the river where the girls and women take bath was strictly prohibited to any male member, and this is still the system. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, knowing the minds of the unmarried young gopis, benedicted them with their desired objective. They had prayed for Krsna to become their husband, and Krsna wanted to fulfill their desires.

At the end of the month, Krsna, along with His friends, appeared on the scene. Another name of Krsna is Yogesvara, or master of all mystic powers. By practicing meditation, the yogi can study the psychic movement of other men, and certainly Krsna could understand the desire of the gopis. Appearing on the scene, Krsna immediately collected all the garments of the gopis, climbed up in a nearby tree, and with smiling face began to speak to them.

"My dear girls," He said. "Please come here one after another and pray for your garments and then take them away. I'm not joking with you. I'm just telling the truth. I have no desire to play any joke with you, for you have observed the regulative principles for one month by worshiping goddess Katyayani. Please do not come here all at once. Come alone; I want to see each of you in your complete beauty, for you all have thin waists. I have requested you to come alone. Now please comply."

When the girls in the water heard such joking words from Krsna, they began to look at one another and smile. They were very joyous to hear such a request from Krsna because they were already in love with Him. Out of shyness, they looked at one another, but they could not come out of the water because they were naked. Due to remaining in the water for a long time, they felt cold and were shivering, yet upon hearing the pleasing and joking words of Govinda, their minds were perturbed with great joy. They began to tell Krsna, "Dear son of Nanda Maharaja, please do not joke with us in that way. It is completely unjust to us. You are a very respectable boy because You are the son of Nanda Maharaja, and You are very dear to us, but You should not play this joke on us because now we are all shivering from the cold water. Kindly deliver our garments immediately, otherwise we shall suffer." They then began to appeal to Krsna with great submission. "Dear Syamasundara," they said, "we are all Your eternal servitors. Whatever You order us to do, we are obliged to perform without hesitation because we consider it our religious duty. But if You insist on putting this proposal to us, which is impossible to perform, then certainly we will have to go to Nanda Maharaja and lodge a complaint against You. If Nanda Maharaja does not take action, then we shall tell King Kamsa about Your misbehavior."

Upon hearing this appeal by the unmarried gopis, Krsna answered, "My dear girls, if you think that you are My eternal servitors and you are always ready to execute My order, then My request is that, with your smiling faces, you please come here alone, one after another, and take away your garments. If you do not come here, however, and if you lodge complaints to My father, I shall not care anyway, for I know My father is old and cannot take any action against Me."

When the gopis saw that Krsna was strong and determined, they had no alternative but to abide by His order. One after another they came out of the water, but because they were completely naked, they tried to cover their nakedness by placing their left hand over their pubic area. In that posture they were all shivering. Their simple presentation was so pure that Lord Krsna immediately became pleased with them. All the unmarried gopis who prayed to Katyayani to have Krsna as their husband were thus satisfied. A woman cannot be naked before any male except her husband. The unmarried gopis desired Krsna as their husband, and He fulfilled their desire in this way. Being pleased with them, He took their garments on His shoulder and began to speak as follows. "My dear girls, you have committed a great offense by going naked in the river Yamuna. Because of this, the predominating deity of the Yamuna, Varunadeva, has become displeased with you. Please, therefore, just touch your foreheads with folded palms and bow down before the demigod Varuna in order to be excused from this offensive act." The gopis were all simple souls, and whatever Krsna said they took to be true. In order to be freed from the wrath of Varunadeva, as well as to fulfill the desired end of their vows and ultimately to please their worshipable Lord, Krsna, they immediately abided by His order. Thus they became the greatest lovers of Krsna, and His most obedient servitors.

[BlackBillBlake]

continued.............................



Nothing can compare to the Krsna consciousness of the gopis. Actually, the gopis did not care for Varuna or any other demigod; they only wanted to satisfy Krsna. Krsna became very ingratiated and satisfied by the simple dealings of the gopis, and He immediately delivered their respective garments, one after another. Although Krsna cheated the young unmarried gopis and made them stand naked before Him and enjoyed joking words with them, and although He treated them just like dolls and stole their garments, they were still pleased with Him and never lodged complaints against Him. This attitude of the gopis is described by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu when He prays, "My dear Lord Krsna, You may embrace Me or trample Me under Your feet, or You may make Me brokenhearted by never being present before Me. Whatever You like, You can do, because You have complete freedom to act. But in spite of all Your dealings, You are My Lord eternally, and I have no other worshipable object." This is the attitude of the gopis toward Krsna.

Lord Krsna was pleased with them, and since they all desired to have Him as their husband, He told them, "My dear well-behaved girls, I know of your desire for Me and why you worshiped goddess Katyayani, and I completely approve of your action. Anyone whose full consciousness is always absorbed in Me, even if in lust, is elevated. As a fried seed cannot fructify, so any desire in connection with My loving service cannot produce any fruitive result, as in ordinary karma."

There is a statement in the Brahma-samhita: karmani nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhajam. Everyone is bound by his fruitive activities, but the devotees, because they work completely for the satisfaction of the Lord, suffer no reactions. Similarly, the gopis' attitude toward Krsna, although seemingly lusty, should not be considered to be like the lusty desires of ordinary women. The reason is explained by Krsna Himself. Activities in devotional service to Krsna are transcendental to any fruitive result.

"My dear gopis," Krsna continued, "your desire to have Me as your husband will be fulfilled because with this desire you have worshiped goddess Katyayani. I promise you that during the next autumn season you shall be able to meet with Me, and you shall enjoy Me as your husband."

Taking shelter of the shade of the trees, Krsna became very happy. While walking He began to address the inhabitants of Vrndavana. "My dear Stoka Krsna, My dear Varuthapa, My dear Bhadrasena, My dear Sudama, My dear Subala, My dear Arjuna, My dear Visala, My dear Rsabha--just look at these most fortunate trees of Vrndavana. They have dedicated their lives to the welfare of others. Individually they are tolerating all kinds of natural disturbances, such as hurricanes, torrents of rain, scorching heat and piercing cold, but they are very careful to relieve our fatigues and give us shelter. My dear friends, I think they are glorified in this birth as trees. They are so careful to give shelter to others that they are like noble, highly elevated charitable men who never deny charity to one who approaches them. No one is denied shelter by these trees. They supply various kinds of facilities to human society, such as leaves, flowers, fruit, shade, roots, bark, flavor extracts and fuel. They are the perfect example of noble life. They are like a noble person who has sacrificed everything possible--his body, mind, activities, intelligence and words--in engaging in the welfare of all living entities."

Thus the Supreme Personality of Godhead walked on the bank of the Yamuna, touching the leaves of the trees and their fruits, flowers and twigs, and praising their glorious welfare activities. Different people may accept certain welfare activities to be beneficial for human society, according to their own views, but the welfare activity that can be rendered to people in general, for eternal benefit, is the spreading of the Krsna consciousness movement. Everyone should be prepared to propagate this movement. As instructed by Lord Caitanya, one should be humbler than the grass on the ground and more tolerant than the tree. The tolerance of the trees is explained by Lord Krsna Himself, and those who are engaged in the preaching of Krsna consciousness should learn lessons from the teachings of Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya through Their direct disciplic succession.

While passing through the forest of Vrndavana on the bank of the Yamuna, Krsna sat down at a beautiful spot and allowed the cows to drink the cold and transparent water of the Yamuna. Being fatigued, the cowherd boys, Krsna and Balarama also drank. After seeing the young gopis taking bath in the Yamuna, Krsna passed the rest of the morning with the boys.

Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Twenty-second Chapter of Krsna, "Stealing the Garments of the Unmarried Gopi Girls."

[sleeping jiva]

cool! thanks :)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

:) I like what I have read of that book a lot so far. That's a cute story... Thank you for sharing it...one day I'm going to get that book...I have it online...but I like books better, you can take 'em with you whereever you go :)

[sleeping jiva]

So this problem, attachment for this material world, gradually we have to cut it. That is the Vedic civilization. If you want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then at the same time, if you remain attached to this material world, so-called society, friendship and love, then it is not possible. So long you will have a pinch of attraction with this material world, there is no possibility of being transferred to the spiritual world. This is the position. Therefore by training, by education, we have to become detached. Detached, this society, friendship and love. We have to understand the falsity of this so-called society, friendship and love. Because we are being carried away by the waves of maya. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has sung, mayar bose, jaccho bhese, Khaccho habudubu bhai. Just like we see sometimes in rainy season, so many plants and creepers and vegetables and so many other things are floating in the river, going. Similarly, we also, all floating in the waves of maya. Mayar bose, jaccho bhese, khaccho habudubu. Sometimes drowned, sometimes on the surface, sometimes on the other shore, sometimes on this shore. This is going on. So long we are in this material world, we are being tossed by different currents, and sometimes I am here as the master of some kingdom, and sometimes I am dog of somebody else. This is my position. The same thing. Very good example, that we are being carried away by the waves of maya. Sometimes we are gathering together. So many straws and vegetables, they gather together. And sometimes the same vegetables and straws are thrown asunder. One is there, one is here. So here also, we assemble here as society, friendship and love exactly like that. In the waves of maya. Then nobody is your father, nobody is your mother, nobody is your sister, nobody. It is simply mayic, illusory combination. Illusory combination, temporary combination. And we are so much attached to this combination that we are refusing to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our position.
Therefore we have to meet them in the battlefield of Kuruksetra, and if required, we have to kill them and execute the order of Krsna. This is our position. If we are thinking that "In this material existence I shall be safe, assisted by my society, friendship, love, country, and politics and sociology," "No, no, sir, it is not possible." It is not possible. You have to take care of yourself. Your so-called society, friendship, love, country, nation, and this, never will be able to help you. Because you are under the clutches of maya. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14].

read and listen to the whole lecture here:
http://www.prabhupadavani.org/web/text/017.html

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I got 2 new George Harrison albums yesterday at a junk-type shop and I thought I might share with you the lyrics to a song I particuarly like from each album...

This one is from Somewhere In England:

“That Which I Have Lost”

He's fighting the forces of darkness limitation
Falsehood and mortality which bar him
The way back into the higher world
While his whole being is bewildered
He does not know - no law of action
Taking refuge inside himself and he's saying

I need someone to show me
Illumine my consciousness
Remove the dark from in me
And give me that which I have lost

As all had seemed lost a light from Heaven
breaking
A flash - inward illumination
Enriched his life more than any words can tell
He stood there, life renewed fresh as rain
Scales were falling from his eyes again
The bolts of his prison opening - he's saying

I found someone who showed me
Illumined my consciousness
Removed the dark from in me
And given me that which I have lost

You people don't have time to listen to him
You're too busy fighting revolutions
That keep you back down in the lower world
Your mirrors of understanding they need
cleansing
Polish away the dust of desire
Before pure light will reflect in them

You need someone to show you
Illumine your consciousness
Remove the dark from in you
And give you that which you have lost.

and this one is from Living In the Material World (this album has a picture of Krishna and Arjuna in a chariot on the sticker so when you play it...they ride the chariot round and round...:) ):

"Living In the Material World"

I'm living in the material world
Living in the material world

can't say what I'm doing here
But I hope to see much clearer,
after living in the material world

I got born into the material world
Getting worn out in the material world
Use my body like a car,
Taking me both near and far
Met my friends all in the material world

Met them all there in the material world
John and Paul here in the material world
Though we started out quite poor
We got 'Richie' on a tour
Got caught up in the material world

From the Spiritual Sky,
Such sweet memories have I
To the Spiritual Sky
How I pray
Yes I pray
that I won't get lost
or go astray

As I'm fated for the material world
Get frustrated in the material world
Senses never gratified
Only swelling like a tide
That could drown me in the
material world

From the Spiritual Sky,
Such sweet memories have I
To the Spiritual Sky
How I pray
Yes I pray
that I won't get lost
or go astray

While I'm living in the material world
Not much 'giving' in the material world
Got a lot of work to do
Try to get a message through
And get back out of this material world

I'm living in the material world
Living in the material world
I hope to get out of this place
by the LORD SRI KRSNA'S GRACE
My salvation from the material world

And one more...this was inspired by Srila Prabhupada...

"The Lord Loves the One (That Loves the Lord)"
The Lord loves the one that loves
the Lord
And the law says if you don't give,
then you don't get loving

Now the Lord helps those that help
themselves
And the law says whatever you do
is going to come right back on you

We all making out
Like we own this whole world
While the leaders of nations
They're acting like big girls
With no thoughts for their God
Who provides us with all
But when death comes to claim them
Who will stand,
and who will fall?

The Lord loves the one that loves
the Lord
And the law says if you don't give,
then you don't get loving

Now the Lord helps those that help
themselves
And the law says whatever you do
is going to come right back on you

We all move around,
with objectives in mind,
to become rich or famous,
With our reputations signed,
But the few that can reach,
to this coveted slot,
don't escape old age creeping,
through their bodies,
like a rot

While the Lord loves the one that loves
the Lord
And the law says if you don't give,
then you don't get loving
Now the Lord helps those that help
themselves
And the law says whatever you do
is going to come right back on you

Ok...I'm done...just thought I'd share...

you can find more lyrics here: http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/g/georgeharrison1635.html

[BlackBillBlake]

Two great albums there! One of George's I like a lot is the one simply called 'George Harrison'. I would definitely add it to your list if you haven't already got it.

Srila Prabhupada once said that George has done more to promote Krishna Consciousness in the west than many who went more deeply into it... I'm sure he was right!

First time I heard the chanting of the Hare Krishna Maha-Mantra, was on 'top of the pops' on tv, courtesy of Gerge's production of the record, which got high in the charts - possibly no1 - I can't recall. But I do recall that even at age 10, I could feel an energy there...it was to be many years though before I came to understand more clearly what that was!

Jai Govinda.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

:) I do want to get that one...I've heard "Blow Away" from that one...I really like that song :)

From George is when I first heard the maha mantra as well...I heard it in "My Sweet Lord"...but this was at the beginning of this year...about Feb or so... and I got curious as to who "Hare Krishna" was and someone lead me to an ISKCON faq sight...and I don't know how it went from there...but it did...

[sleeping jiva]

George was so clever! He was so great! haribol!

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

He was. I he was pretty funny about it too...

Met them all there in the material world
John and Paul here in the material world
Though we started out quite poor
We got 'Richie' on a tour
Got caught up in the material world

I think that is just brilliant...hehe...I was laughing so hard when I heard it...

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Here's my mini rant...


How can a very very large book store not carry one copy of any book by Srila Prabhupada?! The man wrote sooo many...even my dinky library had a copy of Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. I was soo upset or rather bewildered when I dragged my friend all over the story only to find copies of those improper translations of the Bhagavad-Gita. I just couldn't understand it...she must've thought I was crazy because I kept staring at the book shelf saying..."...but he wrote so many...I can't believe it..." I did end up buying Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahanda Yogananda, but I still really wanted the first canto of theSrimad Bhagavatam or the the Krsna: Supreme Personality of Godhead book...::sigh:: Oh well...I guess I'll either read them online or I'll order them online...

So that was my rant...or more like my amazing disbelief...

[BlackBillBlake]

Here's my mini rant...


How can a very very large book store not carry one copy of any book by Srila Prabhupada?! The man wrote sooo many...even my dinky library had a copy of Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. I was soo upset or rather bewildered when I dragged my friend all over the story only to find copies of those improper translations of the Bhagavad-Gita. I just couldn't understand it...she must've thought I was crazy because I kept staring at the book shelf saying..."...but he wrote so many...I can't believe it..." I did end up buying Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahanda Yogananda, but I still really wanted the first canto of theSrimad Bhagavatam or the the Krsna: Supreme Personality of Godhead book...::sigh:: Oh well...I guess I'll either read them online or I'll order them online...

So that was my rant...or more like my amazing disbelief...
Have you considered looking on Ebay? Often there are numbers of Srila Prabhupadas books for sale at very low prices.

[ChiefCowpie]

1008 Ways to Remember Srila Prabhupada
by Govinda dasi ACBSP

Dedicated to our Eternal Master - His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



Story # 22 - December 14th, 1967


In late October, the exciting news came. Swamiji would be returning soon to San Francisco. His health had improved and his travel arrangements were being made. Gaurasundara and I immediately began planning our trip to meet him in California. The first snow had fallen in Montreal, so we were eager to go West anyway. We packed our meager belongings, mostly the contents of our art studio and a few clothes, a couple of saris that I had gotten and took a bus to New York City. There we found a drive away car, one that was to be delivered to the West Coast. Gargamuni and his new wife, Karunamayi and Gaurasundara and I sat out on a hazardous winter journey to San Francisco. Anxious over the perils of winter driving we chanted the whole way. In Colorado we ran off the road in a blizzard and it seemed to us that our chanting brought a big snowplow to rescue us almost immediately. We were so focused on greeting our beloved Swamiji that all obstacles seemed to melt like snow in the sunshine of our love for him. The mood was simple, direct and sweet. When we arrived in San Francisco, Gaurasundara and I rented a small room two blocks from the Frederick Street temple. We were situated there about a week or two before Swamiji's arrival on September 14th, 1967. Daily, my prayers intensified as I looked forward to his arrival. Arrangements were made for Swamiji to stay at Jayananda's large flat and our good friend Upendra was going to cook for him. I began to study Upendra's cooking techniques avidly. Finally, the big day came. Swamiji was arriving. We went to the San Francisco airport and we chanted wildly in the waiting area. I remember walking up a hallway and seeing him through some big glass doors. He turned to us and waved, he gave us a long loving glance and a friendly wave. It meant everything to us. Our kirtan intensified and tears of joy streamed down my cheeks. I felt as if my very life had been returned to me. It was the most joyful day in the history of America: Swamiji had returned. Thank you, Srila Prabhupada for taking the trouble to come back to us. You had an ideal situation in India, in Vrindavana, you could have stayed in your beloved Vrindavana but out of divine compassion for all souls you chose to fly back into the Kali-yuga cities of America to spread the message of Lord Caitanya. You are the most exemplary preacher of the Lord, always concerned for the welfare of all living entities for the suffering of all the souls in this world. We must never forget that without you we would simply continue turning on the rotating wheel of samsara, from king to beggar, elephant to ant, our gratitude must never wane for you alone came to our rescue. We are eternally indebted. No one had heard of Krsna in the West. You were the emissary, the pioneer, the divine agent sent by Lord Caitanya to awaken the Western world from the sleep of ignorance.







Story # 23 - Govind dasi - you have taken your sari?

Joyfully we escorted Swamiji to his flat on (I don't remember the name of the Street); there like a rose surrounded by bees he sat in our midst, carefully unpacking his trunk and smiling at everyone. He spoke with each devotee, asking about his or her welfare, smiling and enchanting everyone with his sweetness. His big Indian trunk was full of goodies. He pulled out all sorts of things we'd never seen before. It was better than Christmas. He showed us a strange metal contraption and explained it was for grating coconut. He showed us a finely carved conch shell and some excellent kartals. He gave Gaurasundara and I pictures of him dancing in front of his Calcutta Deities and asked us to paint them with color. On the back he wrote "Swami Prabhupada dancing in front of his Deities" (I have to look that up). Then he began to pull out gifts for all the devotees. Two disciples, Acyutananda and I think Ramanuja, were in India and had sent saris and gifts for the devotees in San Francisco. I sat, watching Swamiji, totally mesmerized by his spiritual beauty. He carefully unpacked all the saris, each one had a small slip of paper and a devotees' name pinned on it. Then he carefully removed all the pins and placed the pins in a little pile and then placed all the saris in one pack and then all the slips of paper in another stack. Then he began to hand out saris to each of the ladies as he chose, totally disregarding the slips of paper pinned on them. I did not expect to receive a sari as I had not sent money or anything nor did I even know Ramananda. The conversation drifted to items needed by Swamiji with different devotees volunteering for various services or purchases. Swamiji needed some house slippers. I immediately volunteered to buy him some new house slippers and he smilingly nodded and told me he wore size A. He added that they should be made of all synthetic or man-made materials. Swamiji later said: "The only advancement the modern scientists have made is this: to make non-leather shoes". His opinion of material science was encapsulated in this statement. After each devotee was given a project and gift and we all happily bowed and left Swamiji to rest from his journey. Gaurasundara and I were bowing down to leave when Swamiji asked me: "Oh, Govind dasi? You have taken your sari?" Already standing I stopped short and replied: "No, Swamiji, I didn't know there was one for me". Swamiji carefully thumbed through the stack of saris and selected one, a pale lavender cotton sari with a simple border. Beaming, he held it up to me and I reached over and received it. He smiled in a fatherly and loving way and I happily bowed down as I received it. How can he know that lavender is my favorite color, I thought; and then I remembered his quote in the letter: "I know your mind". Knowing everything about me he loved me anyway. Krsna had sent me a wonderful spiritual father. Later I searched for the most perfect house slippers. At one shop I found all man made materials stamped on all the slippers so I chose a nice black slipper with red furry lining. The red furry lining, I thought would match his reddish lotus feet. I purchased the slippers and quickly took them to his apartment. Smilingly, he thanked me and tried them on. "Oh, perfect fit he exclaimed. Very nice, thank you very much". "What a pleasure", I thought. Swamiji wore these slippers for the entire year or more that Gaurasundara and I lived with and traveled with him. The sound of him shuffling down the hall in those slippers is still fresh in my mind. Then as those slippers became worn, I purchased another pair from the same shop in San Francisco; this time a sandy mustard color with tan for relining, and a back which he quickly flattened with his heals. Having been accustomed to his back-less previous slippers, these were also stamped "all man made materials". Those black and red slippers well worn, well loved, he gave to me when I brought him the new sandy colored slippers. Those slippers are worshipable even by devas. Thank you, Srila Prabhupada for giving me the opportunity to serve you with those slippers and in every other way. I pray those shoes will remain enthroned in my heart through all eternity and that I shall always hear you shuffling about, wearing those slippers in the halls of my mind, guiding me, loving me and leading me to Krsna.






next set of stories (http://www.iskcon.net/govinda/page12.html)Govinda dasi
P.O. Box 954 Hauula, Hawaii 96717-0871
govindadasi@hotmail.com



Contents of this website are copyright (c) Bonnie McElroy

[sleeping jiva]

oh, thanks ChiefCowPie :) How beautiful you are, have you seen? That's how I like you. haribol!

[ChiefCowpie]

praise the lord brother sleeping jiva...i have seen the light

[ChiefCowpie]

Here's my mini rant...


I was soo upset or rather bewildered when I dragged my friend all over the story only to find copies of those improper translations of the Bhagavad-Gita....what was wrong with them?...no "bhakyah mam abhajhayanti, mam ekam saranam vraja..."

[BlackBillBlake]

Do you think this would be an appropriate space to introduce some discussion of other translations of the Gita? It might be interesting.....


(by 'other' I mean other than Srila Prabhupadas Translation)

[ChiefCowpie]

Do you think this would be an appropriate space to introduce some discussion of other translations of the Gita?
yes
...one of my favorites is Song Celestial aka Bhagavad Gita as translated by Edwin Arnold... i like Arnold for his sense of a poetic style

from chapter 18

"Learn from me, Son of Kunti! also this,
How one, attaining perfect peace, attains
BRAHM, the supreme, the highest height of all!
Devoted- with a heart grown pure, restrained
In lordly self-control, forgoing wiles
Of song and senses, freed from love and hate,
Dwelling 'mid solitudes, in diet spare,
With body, speech, and will tamed to obey,
Ever to holy meditation vowed,
From passions liberate, quit of the Self,
Of arrogance, impatience, anger, pride;
Freed from surroundings, quiet, lacking nought-
Such an one grows to oneness with the BRAHM;
Such an one, growing one with BRAHM, serene,
Sorrows no more, desires no more; his soul,
Equally loving all that lives, loves well
Me, Who have made them, and attains to Me.
By this same love and worship doth he know
Me as I am, how high and wonderful,
And knowing, straightway enters into Me.
And whatsoever deeds he doeth- fixed
In Me, as in his refuge- he hath won
For ever and for ever by My grace
Th' Eternal Rest! So win thou! In thy thoughts
Do all thou dost for Me! Renounce for Me!
Sacrifice heart and mind and will to Me!
Live in the faith of Me! In faith of Me
All dangers thou shalt vanquish, by My grace;
But, trusting to thyself and heeding not,
Thou can'st but perish! If this day thou say'st,
Relying on thyself, "I will not fight!"
Vain will the purpose prove! thy qualities
Would spur thee to the war. What thou dost shun,
Misled by fair illusions, thou wouldst seek
Against thy will, when the task comes to thee
Waking the promptings in thy nature set.
There lives a Master in the hearts of men
Maketh their deeds, by subtle pulling-strings,
Dance to what tune HE will. With all thy soul
Trust Him, and take Him for thy succour, Prince!
So- only so, Arjuna!- shalt thou gain-
By grace of Him- the uttermost repose,
The Eternal Place!
Thus hath been opened thee
This Truth of Truths, the Mystery more hid
Than any secret mystery. Meditate!
And- as thou wilt- then act!

Nay! but once more
Take My last word, My utmost meaning have!
Precious thou art to Me; right well-beloved!
Listen! tell thee for thy comfort this.
Give Me thy heart! adore Me! serve Me! cling
In faith and love and reverence to Me!
So shalt thou come to Me! I promise true,
For thou art sweet to Me!
And let go those-
Rites and writ duties! Fly to Me alone!
Make Me thy single refuge! will free
Thy soul from all its sins! Be of good cheer!"

[BlackBillBlake]

Very interesting - I've only ever read extracts from Arnold's version, but I see it is available online, so I might have a closer look when I have time.

I have read several versions over the years, the foremost (excepting Bhagavad Gita As It Is) are those by Sri Aurobindo (definitely not for beginners this one), Swami Prabhavananda & Christopher Isherwood, with excellent intro by Aldous Huxley, and Paramhansa Yogananda's translation. Also looked at the Penguin edition trans. Juan Muscaro, and Maharishi Maehesh Yogi's version of the first few chapters.

[ChiefCowpie]

i would like to read Swami Prabhavananda's and Christopher Isherwood's now knowing that they have a version being that i just read Madame Blavatsky's Baboon this past winter... funny about Maharishi's version is that i notice in the book store's that he only got as far as the first six chapters...guess he got tired...Yogananda's version i see in my local metaphysical bookstore and i'm thinking of taking the leap...

[sleeping jiva]

How can one interpret God? They're all cheaters. They add things up, what will it bring to you? Poetic style, yeah you said it yourself. Very beautiful, loving, nice, peaceful MAYA!

Srila Prabhupada says:

So our process is to receive the perfect knowledge from the perfect source and distribute it. We don't manufacture knowledge. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita as it is, as it is. The Bhagavad-gita is already perfect. Why shall I interpret with my imperfect senses? This is cheating. But people want to to cheated. Vancita-vancaka-sampradaya. The whole world is full of cheaters and cheated. Because we want to be cheated, there are so many cheaters. They don't want real thing. Here is the real thing, Bhagavad-gita, the Supreme Personality of Godhead speaking personally about Himself. Why should we interpret? Does it mean that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the supreme authority, left something unexplained to be interpreted later on by some rascals? No. But the rascals dare; they interpret. That is cheating. That is another fault. There are 640-45 editions of Bhagavad-gita. Simply cheating. Amongst them, there are big, big scholars. Not scholars. All rascals, but they cheat. They pose themselves as scholars and people want to be cheated, so they take their words. So they cannot understand Krsna. Cheated. They take the shelter of the cheaters. Therefore they are cheated

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

ChiefCowPie...thank you for those stories about Srila Prabhupada...I just got a chance to read them...and they were really wonderful


Thank you again :)

[BlackBillBlake]

How can one interpret God? They're all cheaters. They add things up, what will it bring to you? Poetic style, yeah you said it yourself. Very beautiful, loving, nice, peaceful MAYA!

Srila Prabhupada says:

So our process is to receive the perfect knowledge from the perfect source and distribute it. We don't manufacture knowledge. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita as it is, as it is. The Bhagavad-gita is already perfect. Why shall I interpret with my imperfect senses? This is cheating. But people want to to cheated. Vancita-vancaka-sampradaya. The whole world is full of cheaters and cheated. Because we want to be cheated, there are so many cheaters. They don't want real thing. Here is the real thing, Bhagavad-gita, the Supreme Personality of Godhead speaking personally about Himself. Why should we interpret? Does it mean that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the supreme authority, left something unexplained to be interpreted later on by some rascals? No. But the rascals dare; they interpret. That is cheating. That is another fault. There are 640-45 editions of Bhagavad-gita. Simply cheating. Amongst them, there are big, big scholars. Not scholars. All rascals, but they cheat. They pose themselves as scholars and people want to be cheated, so they take their words. So they cannot understand Krsna. Cheated. They take the shelter of the cheaters. Therefore they are cheated
Two points I'd like to make here. First, if people look at other translations of the Gita, they can then decide on an informed basis if they agree that Srila Prabhupadas version is the best and clearest.
Secondly, Bhakti yoga is one branch of Vedic Philosophy, there are others. Some of the points that arise from other translations are not covered in Srila Prabhupadas version, and it is interesting to me anyway to see what other sages have to say.
Of course, for Srila Prabhupadas devotees there will only ever be one version of the Gita.

[sleeping jiva]

"First, if people look at other translations of the Gita, they can then decide on an informed basis if they agree that Srila Prabhupadas version is the best and clearest."

Why should somebody else's translation decide whether Prabhupada's books are the best? simply, you're saying -they're greater authorities. You think that more is better, but that's not very wise. Let's see, there's a verse in Bhagavadgita As It Is by Srila Prabhupada, which has been changed by speculants, maybe you read the "adjusted" version. Check out what a huge difference it is from an original Swami's version. I repeat this has been presented as Swami's Bhagavadgita(!):


Bg 10.34 (http://www.asitis.com/10/34.html) Original Version "...One need not read many books on different subject matters; the ability to remember a few and quote them when necessary is another opulence."

Revised & Enlarged Version "...And the ability not only to read many books on different subject matters but to understand them and apply them when necessary is intelligence (medha), another opulence."

Anyway, I told you, first accept, then try to understand not otherwise. You will never understand Krishna if you 're gonna look for a flaw in Prabhupada. He was a pure devotee. I know that from some materialistic, scientific point of view it's not sufficient, but that's the truth. If you're looking for a flaw, you make offences. haribol! good luck.

[sleeping jiva]

So we are receiving knowledge through the acaryas. Krsna spoke to Arjuna, Arjuna spoke to Vyasadeva. Arjuna actually did not speak to Vyasadeva, but Vyasadeva heard it, Krsna speaking, and he noted down in his book Mahabharata. This Bhagavad-gita is found in Mahabharata. So we accept the authorities of Vyasa. And from Vyasa, Madhvacarya; from Madhvacarya, so many disciplic succession, up to Madhavendra Puri. Then Madhavendra Puri to Isvara Puri; from Isvara Puri to Lord Caitanyadeva; from Lord Caitanyadeva to six Gosvamis; from six Gosvamis to Krsnadasa Kaviraja; from him, Srinivasa Acarya; from him, Visvanatha Cakravarti; from him, Jagannatha dasa Babaji; then Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji; Bhaktivinoda Thakura; my spiritual master. The same thing, we are preaching. That is Krsna consciousness movement. It is nothing new. It is coming down from the original speaker, Krsna, by disciplic succession. So we are reading this Bhagavad-gita. Not that I have manufactured some book and I am preaching. No. I am preaching Bhagavad-gita. The same Bhagavad-gita as it was first spoken forty millions of years ago to the sun-god and again it was repeated five thousand years ago to Arjuna. The same thing is coming down by disciplic succession, and the same thing is presented before you. There is no change.
So the authority says,

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]

So we request simply people that you accept this authoritative knowledge and try to assimilate it by your intelligence. It is not that you stop your argument and intelligence, simply blindly accept something. No. We are human beings, we have got intelligence. We are not animals that we shall be forced to accept something. No. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. In this Bhagavad-gita you'll find. You try to understand, tad viddhi. Viddhi means try to understand. Pranipata. Pranipatena means surrendering, not by challenge. A student should be very submissive to the spiritual master. Otherwise, he will be, I mean to say, bewildered. Submissive reception. Our process is...

tasmad gurum prapadyeta
jijnasuh sreya uttamam
sabde pare ca nisnatam
brahmany upasamasrayam
[SB 11.3.21]

This is the injunction, Vedic. If you want to know things which is beyond your conception, beyond your sense perception, then you must approach a bona fide spiritual master. What is the symptom of bona fide spiritual master? Everyone wants to become spiritual master. So that is also stated. Sabde pare ca nisnatam. One who has taken complete bath in the ocean of the Vedic literature, sabde pare ca nisnatam. Just like if you take bath, you become refreshed. If you take nice bath, you feel refreshed. Sabde pare ca nisnatam. Without refreshness, one cannot understand this sublime subject matter. And the guru, or the spiritual master, should be refreshed by taking bath in the ocean of Vedic knowledge. And what is the result? Sabde pare ca nisnatam brahmany upasamasrayam. By, after such cleanliness, he has taken shelter of the Supreme Absolute Truth, without any material desires. He has no more any material desires; he's simply interested in Krsna, or the Absolute Truth. These are the symptoms of guru, or spiritual master.

You can read the entire lecture:
http://www.prabhupadavani.org/web/text/051.html

[ChiefCowpie]

They add things up, what will it bring to you? Poetic style, yeah you said it yourself. Very beautiful, loving, nice, peaceful MAYA!
Beauty is one of the opulences of the Absolute...that which is beautiful is of God or in Truipurari Swami's words..."aesthetic Vedanta"..because Sir Edwin Arnold has captured the poetry of the Gita, he has captured its essence

[BlackBillBlake]

"First, if people look at other translations of the Gita, they can then decide on an informed basis if they agree that Srila Prabhupadas version is the best and clearest."

Why should somebody else's translation decide whether Prabhupada's books are the best? simply, you're saying -they're greater authorities. You think that more is better, but that's not very wise.
I'm not saying anything against Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita here, and I am not saying that others are greater authorities on Bhakti Yoga in general, or Gaudiya Vaishnavism in particular. Prabhupada is the representative of all this, and I don't deny it. However, in the Gita itself Sri Krishna mentions different paths of yoga, and different schools of philosophy. It isn't that reading these other versions of the Gita has turned me against Srila Prabhupada, or made me value his work less. But it has helped to clarify for me certain areas that Sril Prabhupada, lets say, passes over. And helped me on the spiritual path.

Chief Cowpie is right when he says that the essence of poetry and beauty is Divine, All these great qualities come from the Lord, they are his vibhutis.

[sleeping jiva]

Krishna is Purusa, the Supreme Enjoyer. We are not the ones, who should enjoy His beauty. Or let me put it this way -we are only servants, Krishna is not our servant. Other paths than bhakti joga are like to take stairway instead of elevator. Bhakti includes all of them. They're totally ok, but why not to serve Krishna directly?? Here and now? If you knew Prabhupada, you'd know that he said a zillion times that these other types of yoga are very hard to perform in this age. Why, Arjuna himself was unabe to perform them, what to aspeak about people in this age full hypocrisy???

[ChiefCowpie]

sleeping jiva, your definition of krishna's servant seems really close to being krishna's slave...bhakti is not at all a slave thing...its about devotion...love... its about choice and free expression... yes, we very much do enjoy krishna...we take pleasure in hearing of his pastimes and chanting his name and looking upon his form

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

sleeping jiva, your definition of krishna's servant seems really close to being krishna's slave...bhakti is not at all a slave thing...its about devotion...love... its about choice and free expression... yes, we very much do enjoy krishna...we take pleasure in hearing of his pastimes and chanting his name and looking upon his form
Yes... I think that bhakti is about love and devotion...I read the entire site you had posted about Krishna Dasi and her time with Prabhupada...if you want to see the meaning of bhakti...that will reveal it...from all parties involved in the stories...

Thank you again for that site ChiefCowPie...I stayed up all night reading it...and I think I walked away from it better than I came...even more full of thoughts of Srila Prabhupada and Sri Krishna :)

[sleeping jiva]

CHief: yeah, we should be slaves, total devotion. We should be slaves to Krishna, why not? The only choice yu have is to be a slave to maya or Krishna. That is your free choice. There's no other. Yeah I agree with free expression -you can serve Krishna in many ways, but certainly not by your made-up things, for example by illicit sex life -lol. Or by meat eating, or by hazard, or by intoxication -you cannot serve Krishna in those ways -that is not devotional service, that is service to maya.

BBB: Here's the particular verse from Bhagavadgita, which tells about different yoga-systems:




Chapter 6. Sankhya-yogaTEXT 33

arjuna uvaca
yo 'yam yogas tvaya proktah
samyena madhusudana
etasyaham na pasyami
cancalatvat sthitim sthiram

SYNONYMS

http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifarjunah uvaca--Arjuna said; yah--the system; ayam--this; yogah--mysticism; tvaya--by You; proktah--described; samyena--generally; madhu-sudana--O killer of the demon Madhu; etasya--of this; aham--I; na--do not; pasyami--see; cancalatvat--due to being restless; sthitim--situation; sthiram--stable.
TRANSLATION

http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifArjuna said: O Madhusudana, the system of yoga which You have summarized appears impractical and unendurable to me, for the mind is restless and unsteady.
PURPORT

http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifThe system of mysticism described by Lord Krsna to Arjuna beginning with the words sucau dese and ending with yogi paramah is here being rejected by Arjuna out of a feeling of inability. It is not possible for an ordinary man to leave home and go to a secluded place in the mountains or jungles to practice yoga in this age of Kali. The present age is characterized by a bitter struggle for a life of short duration. People are not serious about self-realization even by simple, practical means, and what to speak of this difficult yoga system, which regulates the mode of living, the manner of sitting, selection of place, and detachment of the mind from material engagements. As a practical man, Arjuna thought it was impossible to follow this system of yoga, even though he was favorably endowed in many ways. He belonged to the royal family and was highly elevated in terms of numerous qualities; he was a great warrior, he had great longevity, and, above all, he was the most intimate friend of Lord Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Five thousand years ago, Arjuna had much better facilities than we do now, yet he refused to accept this system of yoga. In fact, we do not find any record in history of his practicing it at any time. Therefore this system must be considered generally impossible in this age of Kali. Of course it may be possible for some very few, rare men, but for the people in general it is an impossible proposal. If this were so five thousand years ago, then what of the present day? Those who are imitating this yoga system in different so-called schools and societies, although complacent, are certainly wasting their time. They are completely in ignorance of the desired goal.

[BlackBillBlake]

Krishna is Purusa, the Supreme Enjoyer. We are not the ones, who should enjoy His beauty. Or let me put it this way -we are only servants, Krishna is not our servant.
Don't you see Sleeping Jiva that it is the beauty and grace of God that attracts the conditioned soul? If this finds expression through poetry, or any other art form, that is a form of service to the Lord.
Many great Devotees have expressed their love and devotion to Krishna through verse! These pictures I have been posting - they are human productions - would you say we are not supposed to enjoy such images? We are parts and parcels of Krishna, therefore if the capacity to enjoy is there in Him, it is also present in us, although to a lesser degree.

[BlackBillBlake]

Chapter 10. The Opulence of the Absolute

TEXT 41

yad yad vibhutimat sattvam
srimad urjitam eva va
tat tad evavagaccha tvam
mama tejo-'msa-sambhavam

SYNONYMS

yat yat--whatever; vibhuti--opulences; mat--having; sattvam--existence; sri-mat--beautiful; urjitam--glorious; eva--certainly; va--or; tat tat--all those; eva--certainly; avagaccha--you must know; tvam--you; mama--My; tejah--splendor; amsa--partly; sambhavam--born of.

TRANSLATION

Know that all beautiful, glorious, and mighty creations spring from but a spark of My splendor.

PURPORT

Any glorious or beautiful existence should be understood to be but a fragmental manifestation of Krsna's opulence, whether it be in the spiritual or material world. Anything extraordinarily opulent should be considered to represent Krsna's opulence.

[sleeping jiva]

Of course, man! If Krishna is the only goal, it's ok. I was just saying that if you're using Krishna's beauty for your own egotistical purposes, you shouldn't use Krishna. Krishna shouldn't be your servant. Go ahead post more pictures, that's cool! :)haribol!

[BlackBillBlake]

Mira Bai

By

Sri Swami Sivananda (http://www.dlshq.org/saints/siva.htm)



Mira is regarded as an incarnation of Radha. She was born in Samvat 1557 or 1499 A.D. in the village Kurkhi, near Merta, a small state in Marwar, Rajasthan. Mira was the daughter of Ratan Singh Ranthor and the grand-daughter of Dudaji of Merta. The Ranthors of Merta were great devotees of Vishnu. Mira Bai was brought up amidst Vaishnava influence, which moulded her life in the path of devotion towards Lord Krishna. She learnt to worship Sri Krishna from her childhood. When she was four years of age, she manifested religious tendencies. Once there was a marriage procession in front of her residence. The bridegroom was nicely dressed. Mira, who was only a child, saw the bridegroom and said to her mother innocently, "Dear mother, who is my bridegroom?". Mira’s mother smiled, and half in jest and half in earnest, pointed towards the image of Sri Krishna and said, "My dear Mira, Lord Krishna—this beautiful image—is your bridegroom".

Child Mira began to love the idol of Krishna very much. She spent much of her time in bathing and dressing the image. She worshipped the image. She slept with the image. She danced about the image in ecstasy. She sang beautiful songs in front of the image. She used to talk to the idol.

Mira’s father arranged for her marriage with Rana Kumbha of Chitore, in Mewar. Mira was a very dutiful wife. She obeyed her husband’s commands implicitly. After her household duties were over, she would go to the temple of Lord Krishna, worship, sing and dance before the image daily. The little image would get up, embrace Mira, play on the flute and talk to her. Rana’s mother and other ladies of the house did not like the ways of Mira, as they were worldly-minded and jealous. They were all annoyed with her. Mira’s mother-in-law forced her to worship Durga and admonished her often. But Mira stood adamant. She said, "I have already given up my life to my beloved Lord Krishna". Mira’s sister-in-law Udabai formed a conspiracy and began to defame the innocent Mira. She informed Rana Kumbha that Mira was in secret love with others, that she with her own eyes had witnessed Mira in the temple with her lovers, and that she would show him the persons if he would accompany her one night. She further added that Mira, by her conduct, had brought a great slur on the reputation of the Rana family of Chitore. Rana Kumbha was very much enraged. He straightaway ran with sword in hand towards the inner apartments of Mira. Fortunately, Mira was not in her room. A kind relative of the Rana checked him and said, "Look here Rana! Do not be in haste. You will repent later on. Consider well. Enquire into the matter very carefully. Find out the truth. Mira is a great devotional lady. What you have heard now may be a wild rumour only. Out of sheer jealousy some ladies might have concocted a cock-and-bull story against Mira to ruin her. Be cool now". Rana Kumbha agreed to the wise counsel of his relative. The Rana’s sister took him to the temple at dead of night. Rana Kumbha broke open the door, rushed inside and found Mira alone in her ecstatic mood talking to the idol.

The Rana said to Mira, "Mira, with whom are you talking now? Show me this lover of yours". Mira replied, "There sits He—my Lord—the Nanichora who has stolen my heart". She fainted. There was a wild rumour that Mira was mixing very freely with Sadhus. She, no doubt, had great regard for Sadhus and mixed freely with them. Mira never cared a bit for the meaningless scandals. She stood unruffled.

Mira was persecuted in various ways by the Rana and his relatives. She got the same treatment which Prahlad got from his father Hiranyakasipu. Hari shielded Prahlad. Here, Sri Krishna always stood by the side of Mira. Once the Rana sent a cobra in a basket to Mira with the message that it contained a garland of flowers. Mira took her bath and sat for worship. After finishing her meditation, she opened the basket and found inside a lovely idol of Sri Krishna and a garland of flowers. Then the Rana sent her a cup of poison with the message that it was nectar. Mira offered it to Lord Krishna and took it as His Prasad. It was real nectar to her. Then the Rana sent a bed of nails for Mira to sleep on. Mira finished her worship and slept on the bed of nails. Lo! The bed of nails was transformed into a bed of roses.

When Mira was thus tortured by her husband’s relatives, she sent a letter to Tulsidasji and asked the advice of the saint. She wrote thus: "All my relatives trouble me, because I move amongst Sadhus. I cannot carry on my devotional practices in the house. I have made Giridhar Gopal my friend from my very childhood. I am strongly attached to Him. I cannot break that attachment now".

Tulsidasji sent a reply: "Abandon those who do not worship Rama and Sita as if they are your enemies, even though they are your dearest relatives. Prahlad abandoned his father; Vibhishana left his brother Ravana; Bharata deserted his mother; Bali forsook even his Guru; the Gopis, the women of Vraja, disowned their husbands in order to attain the Lord. Their lives were all the happier for having done so. The opinion of holy saints is that the relation with God and love of God alone is true and eternal; all other relationships are unreal and temporary".

Once Akbar and his court musician Tansen came in disguise to Chitore to hear Mira’s devotional and inspiring songs. Both entered the temple and listened to Mira’s soul-stirring songs to their heart’s content. Akbar was really moved. Before he departed, he touched the holy feet of Mira and placed a necklace of emeralds in front of the idol as a present. Somehow the news reached the Rana that Akbar had entered the temple in disguise, touched the feet of Mira and even presented her a necklace. The Rana became furious. He told Mira, "Drown yourself in the river and never show your face to the world in future. You have brought great disgrace on my family".

Mira obeyed the words of her husband. She proceeded to the river to drown herself. The names of the Lord "Govind, Giridhari, Gopal were always on her lips. She sang and danced in ecstasy on her way to the river. When she raised her feet from the ground, a hand from behind grasped her. She turned behind and saw her beloved Krishna. She fainted. After a few minutes she opened her eyes. Lord Krishna smiled and spoke to her these words: "My dear Mira, your life with this mortal husband is over now. You are absolutely free. Be cheerful. You are Mine. Immediately proceed to the bowers of Vraja and the avenues of Brindavan. Seek Me there, my child. Be quick". He then disappeared.

Mira obeyed the divine call immediately. She walked barefoot on the hot sandy beds of Rajasthan. On her way, she was received by many ladies, children and devotees with great hospitality. She reached Brindavan. She found out her Flute-bearer there. She went about Brindavan begging for her food and worshipped in the Govinda Mandir which has since become famous and is now a place of pilgrimage. Her devotees of Chitore came to Brindavan to see Mira. Rana Kumbha came to Mira in the disguise of a mendicant, revealed himself and repented for his previous wrongs and cruel deeds. Mira at once prostrated before her husband.

[BlackBillBlake]

continued..

Jiva Gosain was the head of the Vaishnavites in Brindavan. Mira wanted to have Darshan of Jiva Gosain. He declined to see her. He sent word to Mira that he would not allow any woman in his presence. Mira Bai retorted: "Everybody in Brindavan is a woman. Only Giridhar Gopal is Purusha. Today only I have come to know that there is another Purusha besides Krishna in Brindavan". Jiva Gosain was put to shame. He thought that Mira was a great devotional lady. He at once went to see Mira and paid her due respects.
Mira’s fame spread far and wide. So many princesses and queens have come and gone. So many Ranis, Kumaris and Maharanis have appeared on the stage of this world and vanished. How is it that the queen of Chitore alone is still remembered? Is this on account of her beauty? Is this on account of her poetic skill? No. It is on account of her renunciation, one-pointed devotion to Lord Krishna and God-realisation. She came face to face with Krishna. She conversed with Krishna. She ate with Krishna—her Beloved. She drank the Krishna-prema-rasa. She has sung from the core of her heart the music of her soul, the music of her Beloved, her unique spiritual experiences. And she has sung songs of surrender and Prem.

Mira had the beautiful cosmic vision. She saw Krishna in the tree, in the stone, in the creeper, in the flower, in the bird, in all beings—in everything. As long as there is the name of Krishna, there will be the name of Mira also.

It is extremely difficult to find a parallel to this wonderful personality—Mira—a saint, a philosopher, a poet and a sage. She was a versatile genius and a magnanimous soul. Her life has a singular charm, with extraordinary beauty and marvel. She was a princess, but she abandoned the pleasures and luxuries incident to her high station, and chose instead, a life of poverty, austerity, Tyaga, Titiksha and Vairagya. Though she was a delicate young lady, she entered the perilous journey on the spiritual path amidst various difficulties. She underwent various ordeals with undaunted courage and intrepidity. She stood adamant in her resolve. She had a gigantic will.

Mira’s songs infuse faith, courage, devotion and love of God in the minds of the readers. They inspire the aspirants to take to the path of devotion and they produce in them a marvellous thrill and a melting of the heart.

Mira’s earthly life was full of troubles and difficulties. She was persecuted. She was tormented and yet she kept up an undaunted spirit and a balanced mind all through, by the strength of her devotion and the grace of her beloved Krishna. Though she was a princess, she begged alms and lived sometimes on water alone. She led a life of perfect renunciation and self-surrender.

Mira had Raganuga or Ragatmika Bhakti. She never cared for public criticism and the injunctions of the Shastras. She danced in the streets. She did no ritualistic worship. She had spontaneous love for Lord Krishna. She did not practise Sadhana-bhakti. From her very childhood she poured forth her love on Lord Krishna. Krishna was her husband, father, mother, friend, relative and Guru. Krishna was her Prananath. Mira had finished the preliminary modes of worship in her previous birth.

Mira was fearless in her nature, simple in her habits, joyous in her disposition, amiable in her deportment, graceful in her behaviour and elegant in her demeanour. She immersed herself in the love of Giridhar Gopal. The name of Giridhar Gopal was always on her lips. Even in her dreams, she lived and had her being in Sri Krishna.

In her divine intoxication, Mira danced in public places. She had no sex-idea. Her exalted state could not be adequately described in words. She was sunk in the ocean of Prem. She had no consciousness of her body and surroundings. Who could gauge the depth of her devotion? Who could understand her internal Premamaya state of Maha-bhava? Who could measure the capacity of her large heart?

Mira wafted the fragrance of devotion far and wide. Those who came in contact with her were affected by her strong current of Prem. Mira was like Lord Gauranga. She was an embodiment of love and innocence. Her heart was the temple of devotion. Her face was the lotus-flower of Prem. There was kindness in her look, love in her talk, joy in her discourses, power in her speech and fervour in her songs. What a marvellous lady! What a wonderful personality! What a charming figure!

Mira’s mystic songs act as a soothing balm to the wounded hearts and tired nerves of those who toil in this world with the heavy burden of life. The sweet music of her songs exerts a benign influence on the hearers, removes discord and disharmony, and lulls them to sleep. Mira’s language of love is so powerful that even a downright atheist will be moved by her devotional songs.

Mira acted her part well on the stage of the world. She taught the world the way to love God. She rowed her boat dexterously in a stormy sea of family troubles and difficulties and reached the other shore of supreme peace and absolute fearlessness—the kingdom of supreme love. She belonged to the gentle fair sex and yet how undaunted in spirit and how courageous she was! Though she was young, she bore the persecutions silently. She endured the piercing taunts and sarcastic criticisms of the world bravely. She has left an indelible impression on the world and her name will be handed down to posterity.

From Brindavan, Mira proceeded to Dwaraka. There she was absorbed in the image of Lord Krishna at the temple of Ranchod.

[ChiefCowpie]

Mirabai ki jaya!!!!!!!!!!

Krishna shouldn't be your servant.
but He often chooses to be as Krishna delights in the service of His pure devotees

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

That is an absolutely marvolous story. Thank you very much for it. :)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

KRISHNA BOOK ~ Ch 35 ~ The Gopi's Feelings Of Separation

The gopis of Vrndavana were so attached to Krsna that they were not
satisfied simply with the rasa dance at night. They wanted to
associate with Him and enjoy His company during the daytime also.
When Krsna went to the forest with His cowherd boy friends and cows,
the gopis did not physically take part, but their hearts went with
Him. And because their hearts went, they were able to enjoy His
company through strong feelings of separation. To acquire this strong
feeling of separation is the teaching of Lord Caitanya and His direct
disciplic succession of Gosvamis. When we are not in physical contact
with Krsna, we can associate with Him like the gopis, through
feelings of separation. Krsna's transcendental form, qualities,
pastimes, and entourage are all identical with Him. There are nine
different kinds of devotional service. Devotional service to Krsna in
feelings of separation elevates the devotee to the highest
perfectional level, to the level of the gopis.

It is stated in Srinivasacarya's prayer to the six Gosvamis that they
left the material opulences of government service and the princely
status of life and went to Vrndavana, where they lived just like
ordinary mendicants, begging from door to door. But they were so much
enriched with the gopis' feelings of separation that they enjoyed
transcendental pleasure at every moment. Similarly, when Lord
Caitanya was at Jagannatha Puri, He was in the role of Radharani,
feeling the separation of Krsna. Those who are in the disciplic
succession of the Madhva-Gaudiya-sampradaya should also feel the
separation of Krsna, worship His transcendental form and discuss His
transcendental teachings, His pastimes, His qualities, His entourage
and His associations. The spiritual masters should enrich the
devotees to the highest devotional perfection. Feeling constant
separation while engaged in the service of the Lord is the perfection
of Krsna consciousness.

The gopis used to discuss Krsna amongst themselves, and their talks
were as follows. "My dear friends," one gopi said, "do you know that
when Krsna lies on the ground He rests on His left elbow, and His
head rests on His left hand? He moves His attractive eyebrows while
playing His flute with His delicate fingers, and the sound He
produces creates such a nice atmosphere that the denizens of the
heavenly planets, who travel in space with their wives and beloved,
stop their airplanes, for they are stunned by the vibration of the
flute. The wives of the demigods who are seated in the planes then
become very much ashamed of their singing and musical qualifications.
Not only that, but they become afflicted with conjugal love, and
their hair and tightened dresses immediately loosen."

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Another gopi said, "My dear friends, Krsna is so beautiful that the
goddess of fortune always remains on His chest, and He is always
adorned with a golden necklace. Beautiful Krsna plays His flute in
order to enliven the hearts of many devotees. He is the only friend
of the suffering living entities. When He plays His flute, all the
cows and other animals of Vrndavana, although engaged in eating,
simply take a morsel of food in their mouths and stop chewing. Their
ears raise up and they become stunned. They do not appear alive but
like painted animals. Krsna's flute playing is so attractive that
even the animals become enchanted, and what to speak of ourselves."

Another gopi said, "My dear friends, not only living animals, but
even inanimate objects like the rivers and lakes of Vrndavana also
become stunned when Krsna passes with peacock feathers on His head
and His body smeared with the minerals of Vrndavana. With leaves and
flowers decorating His body, He looks like some hero. When He plays
on His flute and calls the cows with Balarama, the river Yamuna stops
flowing and waits for the air to carry dust from His lotus feet. The
river Yamuna is unfortunate like us; it does not get Krsna's mercy.
The river simply remains stunned, stopping its waves just as we also
stop crying out of frustration for Krsna."

In the absence of Krsna the gopis were constantly shedding tears, but
sometimes, when they expected that Krsna was coming, they would stop
crying. But when they saw that Krsna was not coming, then again they
would become frustrated and begin to cry. Krsna is the original
Personality of Godhead, the origin of all Visnu forms, and the
cowherd boys are all demigods. Lord Visnu is always worshiped and
surrounded by different demigods like Lord Siva, Lord Brahma, Indra,
Candra, and others. When Krsna traveled through the Vrndavana forest
or walked on the Govardhana Hill, He was accompanied by the cowherd
boys. While walking, He played His flute, just to call His cows. Just
by His association, the trees, plants and other vegetation in the
forest immediately became Krsna conscious. A Krsna conscious person
sacrifices everything for Krsna. Although trees and plants are not
very advanced in consciousness, by the association of Krsna and His
friends they also became Krsna conscious. They then want to deliver
everything--whatever they have--their fruits, flowers, and the honey
incessantly falling from their branches.

http://www.iskcon.com.au/IMAGES/EVENTS/India2002/Krishna_Gopis.jpghttp://www.piranesia.net/toys/vedicgods/images/vedicgod05.jpg

[Bhaskar]

One fine day the gopikas heard that the great saint Durvasa Rishi was passing through the forest nearby. Wishing to meet the great sage, they asked Krishna to help them cross the Yamuna, as its waters were running high. Krishna smiled and said, `Go to Yamunaji and say, If Krishna is has been a lifelong celibate, then please make way for us.`

The Gopikas giggled and blushed, for they were wives of Krishna and knew that he wasnt celibate, how could they go to Yamuna and tell a lie like that!!! But since Sri Krishna told them to, they went. And wonder of wonders, Yamuna parted and allowed them to cross!

So they went to Durvasa Rishi, bearing food of all kinds, a feast to delight a king, for Durvasaji was very generous when pleased and very dangerous when even slightly displeased.

So they did padapooja and offerd him food. And Durvasaji ate and ate and ate and ate, they wondered, is he a rishi or a bottomless pit!!! And finally when the food wa all over, he sat back, smiled and patted his tummy.

Now it was time ot leave for the gopikas. But how could they cross Yamuna!! Last time Sri Krishnas grace was there, but to go back they didnt know what to do. So they asked Durvasa Muni how to cross the Yamuna. Durvasaji stroked his beard and said, `Go to Yamuna and say, if Durvasa Rishi has been observing a lifelong fast then please allow us to pass.`

Now this was too much! Yamuna devi may not kthe gopikas and krishna did in their privacy, but sitting on her banks, they had justs een this man eat the meal of an army, yet he tells them to barefacedly lie like this! But the anger of Durvasa Muni was infamous and so they went to Yamuna, shyly, embarassed at what they were about to do, whispered, `If Durvasaji has never eaten a speck of food n his life, allow us to go.`
And Yamuna parted!!!!

So the gopis returned home baffled.

The lesson here is of detachment in action. Both Sri Krishna and Durvasa Rishi show that the jeeva before us is not the doer, that it is only the highest supreme Self that works through all, we are but instruments for its expression.

Sri Krishna saranam mama.

[BlackBillBlake]

Thanks to everyone for the wonderful Krishna Katha - (activities to glorify Sri Krishna and His Transcendent Lila or pastimes)!!!


Looking at the figures, 70 people have viewed this thread since I looked last night!

If only one or two delve further into Krishna Consciousness, then that is great.

And this is an example of how ordinary activities can be directed toward God!

So Devotees, please keep this going!!

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya!!

Hare Krishna!!

[ChiefCowpie]

SAINT FRANCIS OF ASSISI

By

SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA (http://www.dlshq.org/saints/siva.htm)

http://www.dlshq.org/images/francis.gif

Saint Francis is called the little poor man of Assisi. He was born in the year 1182 in the town of Assisi in Italy. His father's name was Bernadone. Bernadone was a very wealthy merchant of Assisi. Francis was a very good-looking boy. He was merry and soft-hearted. So he had many friends. All the noble men's sons were his companions.

Francis was brought up in luxury and gaiety. He spent a considerable portion of his wealth in extravagant pleasures. He used to drink with the young princes of the land.

One day Francis was joking and laughing with his friends. A beggar came along crying for alms. Francis, who was soft-hearted, gave whatever he had in his pocket to the beggar. His companions mocked at him for his charitable act. Dispassion dawned in his heart. The sight of the beggar set him thinking about the poverty and misery of mundane life. He gave much money to the poor. His father thought that Francis was wasting his money and rebuked him.

Sometime after this, Francis was laid up in bed for many months on account of some serious disease. He was about to die. But the Lord saved him as he had to carry out a definite mission in his life. The nature of Francis was entirely changed. Francis prayed to the Lord for light and guidance as to his future. He had a vision of Lord Jesus. He made a strong determination to renounce his old way of living to tread a life of purity and to dedicate his life to the service of humanity.

As soon as Francis got well, he informed his parents of his determination. They were disappointed. They became angry with Francis. Francis gave up his old ways and habits and set up to serve God. He distributed clothes, goods and money to the poor. His father was very much annoyed towards his son. He said, "Is this the gratitude you show to me ? I laboured hard and amassed wealth. You are lavishly wasting it on these miserable wretches".

Francis' friends mocked at him and teased him. His father turned him out of the house. Francis lived like a beggar. His old friends even pelted him with stones and mud. He bore everything with patience. He wore a coarse dress and ate simple food.

Francis lived in a cave in the mountains of Assisi and spent his time in prayer and meditation for two years. Some kind people gave him food, but very often he had to starve.

Francis called the body 'brother ass'. He kept this brother ass under perfect discipline and control. Sometimes he kept this brother ass without food and water and denied it some special food that it liked very much.

Francis was humble. He loved God's creatures. He loved birds and beasts. He loved the depressed and the outcastes. He treated the birds, the beasts and all beings as brothers and sisters.

Francis went from village to village preaching the love of God. He invited people to join him in his life of service if they were willing. Bernard, a rich man of Assisi, was very much attracted by the saintliness of Francis. He joined Francis. He was the first follower of Francis. He placed all his wealth at the altar of God. Eleven others also joined Francis. They distributed all their wealth to the poor. Francis and his followers went all over Italy preaching, teaching, healing and blessing wherever they went.

The gospel of kindness and love of Francis soon spread all over Europe and earned for him the name of St. Francis. People called him the little poor man of Assisi. He lived for ever in the hearts of all men.

St. Francis collected many followers and founded the Order of Mendicant Friars or Franciscans. The members of this Order have to take a vow of poverty, chastity, love and obedience.

St. Francis gave up his mortal coil in 1228.

The followers of St. Francis built a beautiful church round him on the hill of Assisi, the hill he so dearly loved. The influence of St. Francis and the sweet aroma of the life he lived will last for ever.

Glory to St. Francis, the little poor man of Assisi, but an illustrious saint !

The Prayer of Saint Francis

"O Lord, make me an instrument of Thy Peace!
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
Where there is injury, pardon;
Where there is discord, harmony;
Where there is doubt, faith;
Where there is despair, hope;
Where there is darkness, light, and
Where there is sorrow, joy.
Oh Divine Master, grant that I may not
so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand; to be loved
as to love; for it is in giving that we receive;
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life."

"The simple prayer of St. Francis of Assisi provides for us a mold in which to cast our own life's conduct and character. It provides a blueprint upon which to pattern our living in our thoughts, speech and actions within our day to day relationships with our fellow beings and with all life around us. Therefore, the prayer of St. Francis is a precious document for us, an indispensable, invaluable frame of reference by which to judge our own lives, and referring to which we can do the necessary to bring about the needed alterations and modifications for the upliftment and purification of our own daily life."


- Sri Swami Chidananda (http://www.dlshq.org/saints/chida.htm)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Thank you for that CheifCowPie...I only knew part of that story. :) And thank you for sharing one of my favourite hymns...it is one of the most beautiful there is in the Catholic hymnal...sometimes I think that instead of the traditions we should just follow the words of our hymns...

Thank you also to Bhaskar. I do very much enjoy Hari Katha and that is a new story for me to share :)

[sleeping jiva]

Mirabai ki jaya!!!!!!!!!!


but He often chooses to be as Krishna delights in the service of His pure devotees
Oh yes, if He wishes that, we must obey. We are the servants. Nobody and nothing can be higher than Him.

Thanks for glorifying Krishna, everybody. I'm glad the thread is still going on, it is only by the grace of Sri Krishna Himself :)

[BlackBillBlake]

Has anyone else read Ranchor Pime's version of Ramayana?

Prime was an early devotee of Srila Prabhupada who now works independently. His translation of this great classic of India is easy to read and accessible.

The work tells the story of Lord Rama, His love for Sita, His war with Ravana, demon king of Sri Lanka who kidnaps Sita, and much more. Highly reccommended!

[sleeping jiva]

Where's his independence?

[BlackBillBlake]

Where's his independence?Ah Jiva! I certainly don't mean he is independent of Krishna! What I mean is he is not associated any longer with ISKCON. I think he is seeking to serve Srila Prabhupada and Sri Krishna in producing this book. Here is an extract from the introduction to the book:

"I was first introduced to Lord Rama in my youth by my spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, and take it as His Grace that I have now recieved the chance to serve Rama by writing this new version of Ramayana"

[ChiefCowpie]

Oh yes, if He wishes that, we must obey. We are the servants. Nobody and nothing can be higher than Him.
but the Truth be told...nobody is doing too much obeying of Krishna in Brindaban...or worshiping...or anybody thinking that He's God...he's just the totally adorable son of Maharaja Nanda that everyone has a completely spontaneous desire to please

[sleeping jiva]

Their situation was a result of devotional service from their previous lives. But they do, they obey. Gopis, they obeyed, read the story somebody posted a few days ago. He was playing the role for His devotees. He was pleasing them, cuz their devotion was that big. Yeah, you're right it was spontaneous, becuz Krishna made them like that. But not everyone liked Him, for example Kamsa, he wanted to kill Him (lol). The devotees, they recognized Him, but the demons they thought of Him as an ordinary man.
Krsna, Krsna, Krsna -gopis were always thinking of Him. The devotion, worshipping and obeying of Krishna is the best example of derving Krishna in history. They were the best devotees, that's why Krishna rewarded them by His physical presence and taking them as His wives. The same thing with His parents, he was rewarding them. He was driving a chariot for Arjuna, although Arjuna should've been the one who does the driver's work. That's His greatness. I read that in Krishna book, that you can actually control Krishna if you're a big devotee of Him. (Sorry, I don't remeber the exact quote). It's like love, in love there's no higher or lower, it's an exchange. But we must deserve His love. Noone's gonna love you, just becuz you need it, you must do something for it.

[sleeping jiva]

Ah Jiva! I certainly don't mean he is independent of Krishna! What I mean is he is not associated any longer with ISKCON. I think he is seeking to serve Srila Prabhupada and Sri Krishna in producing this book. Here is an extract from the introduction to the book:

"I was first introduced to Lord Rama in my youth by my spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, and take it as His Grace that I have now recieved the chance to serve Rama by writing this new version of Ramayana"
Ok :) that's cool. I thought he started manufacturing his own interpretations. I read a lot about ISCKON and how it has changed since Prabhupada's disappearance and I must say, my opinion is that it is no longer a perfect organization.

[BlackBillBlake]

Ok :) that's cool. I thought he started manufacturing his own interpretations. I read a lot about ISCKON and how it has changed since Prabhupada's disappearance and I must say, my opinion is that it is no longer a perfect organization.
Happy you are seeing the light Sleeping Jiva, with regard to ISKCON that is! As I may have said in a previous post, back in the 80's I met one of the rascal 'gurus'
Bhagavan Gurudeva, and I was very unimpressed. This put me off ISKCON, as I couldn't reconcile what I'd seen at this mans so called 'darshan' with anything I'd read in Srila Prabhupada's books. I also worked with a bass player, whom will remain nameless here, who had been closely associated with Jayatirtha, another of the 'eleven' who fell down. I heard much to convince me that ISKCON has very serious problems. I think the IRM people www.iskconirm.com/ (http://www.iskconirm.com/)
have a good thing going.

I have had some minor association only with ISKCON devotees in recent years. I have been at several festivals where thay've had kirtan, and I always join in this! But I really wish they would reform - I recall meeting devotees back in the late 70's when Srila Prabhupada was still around in the materiel body (he's still present spiritually for the sincere soul) and the energy and the whole vibration were truly magical! Still have in my possesion books given free to me by my dear devotee freinds in those days. I wish there were a local freindly temple - but unfortunately, no such exists. I can choose between ISKCON or Gaudiya Math, both situated quite close, but I don't feel too comfortable with either. However, I intend one day to visit Srimad Narayan Maharaji's Devotees - at least for a chance of some Krishna Katha and Kirtan - but mainly the kirtan!!! And I have been invited, so it would be impolite not to go.

Ranchor Prime doesn't really comment too much on the Ramayana - he tells the story simply, giving only some basic background info which is fully in accord with the teaching of Srila Prabhupada. Those who are more familiar with the teachings would probably get more out of the book. And to know the tale of Sri Rama, Lakshman, and Hanumanji is essential reading indeed!ISKCON offer a different version, as well as this one in their UK catalogue.

Hare Krishna!

Shanti!

[BlackBillBlake]

but the Truth be told...nobody is doing too much obeying of Krishna in Brindaban...or worshiping...or anybody thinking that He's God...he's just the totally adorable son of Maharaja Nanda that everyone has a completely spontaneous desire to please
Still Chief, the Devotees in bhraj do get some pretty significant 'reminders'that He is God, as for example when Yashodamayi looks into Krishna's mouth to see if the naughty boy has been eating clay..............






"When the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna was so ordered by His mother, He immediately opened His mouth just like an ordinary boy. Then mother Yasoda saw within that mouth the complete opulence of creation. She saw the entire outer space in all directions, mountains, islands, oceans, seas, planets, air, fire, moon and stars. Along with the moon and the stars she also saw the entire elements, water, sky, the extensive ethereal existence along with the total ego and the products of the senses and the controller of the senses, all the demigods, the objects of the senses like sound, smell, etc., and the three qualities of material nature. She also could perceive that within His mouth were all living entities, eternal time, material nature, spiritual nature, activity, consciousness and different forms of the whole creation. Yasoda could find within the mouth of her child everything necessary for cosmic manifestation. She also saw, within His mouth, herself taking Krsna on her lap and having Him sucking her breast. Upon seeing all this, she became struck with awe and began to wonder whether she were dreaming or actually seeing something extraordinary. She concluded that she was either dreaming or seeing the play of the illusory energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She thought that she had become mad, mentally deranged, to see all those wonderful things. Then she thought, "It may be cosmic mystic power attained by my child, and therefore I am perplexed by such visions within His mouth. Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead under whose energy bodily self and bodily possessions are conceived." She then said, "Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto Him, under whose illusory energy I am thinking that Nanda Maharaja is my husband and Krsna is my son, that all the properties of Nanda Maharaja belong to me and that all the cowherd men and women are my subjects. All this misconception is due to the illusory energy of the Supreme Lord. So let me pray to Him that He may protect me always."

http://www.krsnabook.com/images/Sb10.2Plate7.jpgWhile mother Yasoda was thinking in this high philosophical way, Lord Krsna again expanded His internal energy just to bewilder her with maternal affection. Immediately mother Yasoda forgot all philosophical speculation and accepted Krsna as her own child. She took Him on her lap and became overwhelmed with maternal affection. She thus began to think, "Krsna is not understandable to the masses through the gross process of knowledge, but He can be received through the Upanisads and the Vedanta or mystic Yoga system and Sankhya philosophy." Then she began to think of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as her own begotten child.



Eighth Chapter of Krsna, "Vision of the Universal Form."

[sleeping jiva]

thanks for the quote and your story about your own life experiences, I truly admire you for sharing it. For me, to listen Prabhupada's instruction is very important, becuz thus you can see who's a cheater and who's not. Devotion, love, faith is essential, but the knowledge is a must too. He said several times, that if you understand the essence through his books, you don't need more. And furthermore, if you spread this message in unchanged form you're a guru. chant and be happy! :)
p.s I know the Iskcon revival movement , the link appeared here on the forum several times. :)

[BlackBillBlake]

thanks for the quote and your story about your own life experiences, I truly admire you for sharing it. For me, to listen Prabhupada's instruction is very important, becuz thus you can see who's a cheater and who's not. Devotion, love, faith is essential, but the knowledge is a must too. He said several times, that if you understand the essence through his books, you don't need more. And furthermore, if you spread this message in unchanged form you're a guru. chant and be happy! :)
p.s I know the Iskcon revival movement , the link appeared here on the forum several times. :)Thanks Jiva, I am happy to share my experiences, but I'm not really seeking admiration, or to put myself forward. I know you started this post to promote Krishna Consciousness and I'm happy to contribute what I can.
Krishna'a Body is said to be eternal knowledge, bliss and conscoiusness. If you study, chant Hare Krishna, and develop love and devotion then knowledge comes in due course. And there is no end to this knowledge, because God is infinite, and no end to realization, because His Nature is eternal, blissful existence. And it is our true nature, Svarupa, also, because we are qualitatively one with the Lord. That is what we really are, spiritual beings on a journey back to the Supreme. A jouney where we can be more blissful, more filled with knowledge at every step....with Krishna's Grace....all is possible!

[sleeping jiva]

cool! definitely. I've noticed you've been posting a lot of images lately. Thanks, great work, keep them coming, I'm sure everybody enjoys them as much as I do.

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

TERRORISTS





Yogesvara: One problem that seems to be occurring more and more frequently is the appearance of terrorists, that is to say, men who are motivated for some political reasons.

Prabhupada: Yes, I have already explained the whole basic principle. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That’s all. There are different types of animals- tigers and lions. So if some animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in an animal society.

The only solution is that you become an ideal human being. Either a tiger comes or elephant comes, but you don’t become an animal. Counteract. That is required.

A human being is called a rational animal. You come to rationality, that is required. If you remain also another type of animal, that will not help you. You have to become actually human being.

These people do not know what the aim of human life is. So their animal propensities are being adjusted this way, that way, this way, that way. Just like they go to see naked dance. The animal propensity—he is seeing his wife daily naked, and still he is going to see naked dance, and paying some fees. Because they have no engagement except this animalism. Is it not?

A dog is simply chewing one bone, this way, that way, this way, that way. Because he is an animal he has no other engagement. So this whole society is like an animal. Especially the westerners have developed a civilization based on animal propensities: “I am this body, and the best use of my life is to gratify my senses.” This is animal.

You have to introduce a real human civilization. You should not be surprised if animals in different shapes and different capacities come out. As the dog is thinking, “I am dog, very stout and strong dog,” so a man is thinking, “I am big nation.” But what is the basic principle? A dog is thinking on the basis of his body, and this big nation is also thinking on the basis of body. So there is no difference between this dog and this big nation. The only difference is that a human being, by nature’s gift, has got better senses. There is no education to utilize the better senses to advance spiritually and get out of this material world. He is simply using that better intelligence for animalism. Now we have to counteract this for the benefit of the human civilization. (Letter Jan.1 1974, Morning walk May 28, 1974 Rome)

O dear Lord Krsna, O eternal Deity of transcendental bliss and knowledge, You are imperishable, and we offer our respectful obeisances unto Your lotus feet. It is by Your causeless mercy that we have been released from the imprisonment of Jarasanda, but now we pray that You release us from imprisonment within material existence, Your illusory energy. We now have sufficient experience of the miserable material life in which we are fully absorbed, and having tasted its bitterness, we have come to take shelter under Your lotus feet. (The imprisoned kings-Krsna Book)

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

[sleeping jiva]

oh, thanks, Rama Nityananda! long time no see :)

It's so true. Prabhupada also explains nationalism, or family attachement as the "extended egotism". I find it so true.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

"The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by the knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases of the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan." (Bhag. 1.2.11) These three divine aspects can be explained by the example of the sun, which also has three different aspects, namely the sunshine, the sun's surface and the sun planet itself. One who studies the sunshine only is the preliminary student. One who understands the sun's surface is further advanced. And one who can enter into the sun planet is the highest. Ordinary students who are satisfied by simply understanding the sunshine--its universal pervasiveness and the glaring effulgence of its impersonal nature--may be compared to those who can realize only the Brahman feature of the Absolute Truth. The student who has advanced still further can know the sun disc, which is compared to knowledge of the Paramatma feature of the Absolute Truth. And the student who can enter into the heart of the sun planet is compared to those who realize the personal features of the Supreme Absolute Truth. Therefore, the bhaktas, or the transcendentalists who have realized the Bhagavan feature of the Absolute Truth, are the topmost transcendentalists, although all students who are engaged in the study of the Absolute Truth are engaged in the same subject matter. The sunshine, the sun disc and the inner affairs of the sun planet cannot be separated from one another, and yet the students of the three different phases are not in the same category."

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada... Bhagavad-gita 2.2 (purport)

[sleeping jiva]

Love Krishna in His original form as a blue skinned flute playing cowherd boy. That's the Supreme controler. haribol!

[BlackBillBlake]

It was 1976, and my friend and I had hitch-hiked down to Kent for a Free Festival, near Canterbury. Travelling down that way, we were retracing the footsteps of Chaucer’s Christian pilgrims of the middle ages,, although the thought never occurred to me at the time. But this is a new age, and we were young, eager to find the event, get stoned……..

On the road we met up with some others who were headed the same way, and eventually we tracked the festival down. It was in a place on the Medway estuary, set back about 500 meters from the sea.

It was nice, the weather was kind, and this was back in the days of nice, peaceful festivals, barring the prescence of some four hundred or so Hell’s Angels who descended on the site for the weekend, wreaked some minor havoc, and then left.

On Friday afternoon, a smart looking silver bus and a couple of ex-army four tonner’s rolled onto site. It was Iskcon, in their Temple Bus. The Devotees were all clad in bright saffron dhotis and kurtas. They opened up the bus, set up a big cooking tent, and cooked a huge amount of truly wonderful Prasada. Devotees went all round the site, performing Kirtan, chanting the Hare Krishna Maha-Mantra, inviting all to partake of the Prasad (which many did eagerly!) and inviting us to come and see the Deity of Gopal Krishna, and the plays they would be performing later in the evening on the main stage!

It was like a real new energy – in those days, during Srila Prabhupada’s time in the body, Iskcon were certainly very well organized. Much more so than any of the hippies!

I ate my Prasada – it tasted absolutely great. I watched the play – I can’t recall the whole thing, but it made a big impression. I went over to the Temple Bus; outside, a hippy girl with somewhat greasy long black hair was sitting chanting Hare Krishna. There were a lot of people on the bus, so I decided to return later. Off I went and got very high on morrocan hash.

Next day, I went back to the Bus. The hippy girl was still there, still chanting! She’d been there all nigh, a Devotee told me, chanting Hare Krishna, keeping the Devotees, who stuck exactly to their daily routines of getting up at 3.00 at the festival, awake all night! The girl was going back with them to Bhaktivedanta Manor !

I was invited to come inside so I took off my shoes and entered, for the first time in this lifetime, a Krishna Temple. The Deity though was behind closed doors at this time. Inside were several very fresh and bright looking Devotees (considering they’d had no sleep) a couple of average hippy looking festival goers, and an Indian man, wearing only a pair of shorts, and with long and luxuriant hair and beard.’This guy is a hatha-yogi’ one of the devotees told me with a wide smile, ‘he’s just come back from India’. The gentleman smiled, and his smile seemed to convey a peace, but also an energy….I was intrigued.

One of the Devotees handed me a book, it was ‘Krsna –The Supreme Personality of Godhead’ by Srila Prabhupada. He said he was supposed to ask for a donation, but he wanted me to know that he wanted everyone to know about Krishna and his Spiritual Master so much, he was going to break the rules and give me the book for free! I still have it. We talked about Krishna, I tried chanting a round of Japa on beads. Then came time to offer this day’s Prasada to Krishna. The ‘Deity Doors’ were opened, to reveal Sri Govinda in all his Glory. The Devotees and the Indian gentleman threw themselves prostrate before the Lord, and I wanted to follow suit…. But some false pride or reserve held me back.

I remained on the bus for some hours, talking to Devotees, and engaging in a nice Kirtana . I could feel the transcendental vibration coming through, just like the Devotees said. It was something extraordinary, new, full of promise. They were trying all the time to persuade me to return with them now to the Manor, as Srila Prabhupada would be there a few days later. And they urged me ‘become a Devotee!’ over and over. I thought about it, but for reasons I don’t want to go into here, I knew I wouldn’t go. I also had an inner feeling that, yes, This is something really farout, but did I want to go this particular route? I was unsure. The hatha-yogi gentleman had also impressed me. He never argued with the devotees, but just smiled! At that stage in my life I had just escaped one big trap I’d foolishly committed myself to, and I didn’t want to enter into anything else. I wanted time and some freedom to see what I should do. In the end I didn’t go. I missed my chance to see Prabhupada personally in the body. But it was my karma, and I don’t have too many regrets now. I know that association with Great Devotees doesn’t end with this body. Prabhupada is still with us in his books, and the inner feeling in the heart. And had I joined Iskcon then, I don’t know what would have happened after Srila Prabhupada’s departure.

I took the book, and the blessings of the Devotees, and I believe, of Sri Krishna with me when I returned home.

Such was my first real encounter with Krishna Consciousness.


Shanti.

[sleeping jiva]

Oh, so close to see Prabhupada :) Thank you very much, this is indeed priceless, Bill. Your story, wow! That's true- Prabhupada is in his books and if one is sincere enough, he can feel his personal association. Thanks for sharing this story, I must say that it was one of the greatest post I've ever read on this thread. haribol :)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

A dear friend of mine, Prtha Devi Dasi, has just sent me a copy of the entire Srimad Bhagavatam online and I thought that I should share it with you all. Enjoy if you haven't already read it or even if you have. :)

http://www.srimadbhagavatam.com/

[EvaDestruction]

Hare Krishna is NOT the oldest religion in the world. It has been around a while, but there were other religions before it. Doesn't it stem from Hinduism?
I still love the chanting...[COLOR=Purple]

[sleeping jiva]

It's not a religion, it's a knowledge -u gotta find Krishna by yourself. Yeah, just chant :) That's it, if you chant yoú know everything about Hare Krishna and if u like it, man, you're a very special person!!!. it goes like this:

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

A few days ago gdkumar had shared this beautiful story with me and I felt it that it was important that I pass it on. Please enjoy it. :)


This is what was told by Ma(Indira Devi) during one of Her Bhav Samadhis. This is what She had seen and heard(I was not present there but many devotees were present there and most of them are still living) :

There was a great King and everybody wanted to see Him. So many mighty sadhus and pundits crossed the seven seas to win His favour, each of them claiming so many high merits. They have staked so much for Him, learned so much about Him from big books, travelled miles and miles to have an interview with Him. His Secretary asked each of them the reason why he wanted to have an interview with the KIng. Some said they wanted to meet greatness face to face, some said they had heard He granted favours while others said they just wanted to know all about Him from a personal contact and so on.

Among them there was a poor woman standing silently. The Secretary put to her the same question but she only answered : 'I have nothing to recommend myself. Nor do I want to know what sort of a person He is. I have nothing important to tell Him like these others. I have come because I love Him. Just that, nothing else.'

He asked : 'But why do you love Him? What is your achievement? What claim have you on Him?'

She said: 'I just love Him, that is all. I have achieved nothing in life, no distinction at all. I am just an ignorant woman.'

He said : 'Well, I will tell Him thjough I don't think that you are quite a normal woman, perhaps a little mad. But still I will tell Him about you, I promise!'

And she said : 'No you need not take the trouble. I will just stand waiting at His gates. He is bound to come out some time.....I will just wait here at His door. Want? No, no, I want nothing from Him, I just love Him. Salvation? No, no, I do not want salvation. Knowledge? I don't even know what it is, nor want to know. I only know that my whole life has been one long vigil....so I wait and wait, longing for just a glimpse of Him. I have nothing to tell Him. Only this that I have come...just come when the day is done. I have come as I am. I have come to see my Lord because I could not live without seeing Him. I know I have not been able to achieve anything, nor become what He wanted me to become. I have just come to Him as I am. I say: Now do what you like with me. I just offer myself... I do not want anything. I just love you and want only to serve you in any way you want me to serve.

[sleeping jiva]

yeah, but still it's good to know how to love Him. that's not that easy in this Kali -yuga age full of ignorance. haribol! nice story.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I don't remember if I ever shared this before...but I suppose it def wouldn't hurt to share it again if I have...


"Bhakti-yoga is the purification of the senses. At the present moment in material existence the senses are always impure, being engaged in sense gratification. But, by the practice of bhakti-yoga these senses can become purified, and in the purified state they come directly in contact with the Supreme Lord. In this material existence, I may be engaged in some service to some master, but I don't really lovingly serve my master. I simply serve to get some money. And the master also is not in love; he takes service from me and pays me. So there is no question of love. But for spiritual life, one must be elevated to the pure stage of love. That stage of love can be achieved by practice of devotional service, performed with the present senses.

This love of God is now in a dormant state in everyone's heart. And, there, love of God is manifested in different ways, but it is contaminated by the material association. Now the material association has to be purified, and that dormant, natural love for Krsna has to be revived. That is the whole process."

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada... Bhagavad-gita 12.9 (purport)

[Krishnadasa]

Just gonna write a quicky since I waisted some time trying to get set up here.

Hari Bol, I have found that the Vedas and Sanskrit are the oldest known Languages recently, and I know that Krishna Consciousness comes from Sanskrit.

I am so happy to hear from other devotees around the world here.

Hare Krishna, and please accept my humble obeisances. KRISHNA DASA

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Hi! Welcome...its so nice to see a new face! :) I hope that you do stick around and have fun on the forums! Haribol! :)

[gdkumar]

Dear Prabhu Krishnadasa,


Welcome to the forum and this thread.

With love,

Kumar.

[sleeping jiva]

Hello, Krishna dasa!

Hooray for u. Please stick around with us, we are quite devoted out here, so u can discuss Krishna with us and always get a response! Jai Prabhupada!

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


"Patram pushpam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati
Tadaham bhaktyaupahritam ashnami prayatatmanah"..........The Gita.

That is :

"Whatever in love one offers Me
Fruit, water, flowers or leaves
My heart in joy receives
To bless My devotee"

There was a priest, a very poor Brahmin, in Brindaban, who used to weave garlands daily from dawn to midnight for the Lord. That was his only sadhana.
He went ever on offering such garlands to the Lord. But the Lord was mute like the marble he worshipped till, after twelve years, the Brahmin concluded that the Lord would not come to life in the Image to accept him and make him His own. So, he decided to drown himself in the Jamuna.

As he was about to take the final plunge, the Lord as Balgopal appeared before him, barring his way and said: " If you drown yourself tonight, my dear, who would weave garlands for me tomorrow? "

He said to the Gopis that He absented Himself from them temporarily only to deepen their thirst for Him.

With love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I like that story a lot. :) Thanks for sharing. :)

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


Thakur's Naralila:

Lord Krishna came to a few devotees in His own Krishna or Gopala human forms. Yogi Krishnaprem's (Ronald Nixon, a British from the Royal Air Force, who later became one of the greatest Yogis of India) great Guru, Yashoda Ma , once told the following story to Maha-yogi Krishnaprem, his disciple Motirani, his friend Alexander and Dadaji. It goes like this :

" You see that little image of Balgopal on the shelf ? Now, one night, when I was fast asleep, He came to me and woke me up and, pouting His dear little lips said: 'You are sleeping happily because you are comfortable. But what about me? How can I sleep if the blessed ants go on tickling me all the time?' I got up aghast to find that I had inadvertently kept a bottle of honey on the same shelf and so the ants had flocked and quite a few had got on to my little Balgopal. I prayed in tears, to Him to forgive me, removed the bottle and wiped Him clean of the ants. Then I put Him on my bed and He slept happily."

Jaya Gobinda! Jaya Gopala!

With love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!


Love is faith and faith is love.
Lifeless rituals and blind beliefs do not take us anywhere.
Love has its own laws. But in true love there is no bargain.

There was this man who had faith in the Lord. Once his only son was seriously ill and doctors gave up all hopes. He said nothing will happen to my son, I shall pray to my Lord and my son will become O.K. He entered the puja room, sat in front of the deity and started praying. But alas! His son died after a few hours.
On being informed, the father opened the door of the puja room, grabbed the deity, ran out from the room and threw the deity into the garbage bin and shouted, 'Never I shall pray and worship again!'.

In true love there can not be any bargain. True love is self-giving without asking for anything in return. Laws of reciprocation? He gives Himself to you.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare,
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna !



An infant crying in the night,
An infant crying for the light
With no language but a cry.

........Tennyson.



Devotion - Bhakti - Ahetuki Bhakti !



How to describe the ineffable? It has to be seen to be believed. For such Bhakti is not to be had by the practice of austerities, however arduous. It can come only if one prays for it in tears with one's spirit and flesh made one-a divine boon that descends like beneficent rain when the parched earth cries out for it.

As a Sanskrit poem has it:


Krishnabhakti-rasa-bhavita matih
Kriyatam yadi kutopi labhyate
Tatra lauly amapi mulyam ekalam
Janmakoti sukritair-na labhyate.


That is :


True God-love is not won in a million births
Merely by dint of deep austerities
Only he wins to it - the way-lost child
Who in his heartfelt yearning cries and cries.

The above is all about Mahayogi Krishnaprem. He was Ronald Nixon before and was a British Royal Air Force pilot. He came to India and joined Lucknow University as a professor of English. The great sadhika, mahapremi Ma Yashoda was the wife of the first Vice Chancellor, Jnanendranath Chakrabarty. Ronald Nixon was initiated by Her and the new name given by Her was Krishnaprem. His name was significant. Mahayogi Krishnaprem was a living deity of true love and mahaprem.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

[Krishnadasa]

It is so cool to know that there are other devotees of Krishna out there.

I only stumbled onto this site, and what a responce to my first post!

Is this forum moderated?

I want to talk about this, and can not find a place since the other forums are only Propaganda forums. Restricting the truth and allowing the lies.

I am not a real ritvik advocate since I think that (based on what I have read Prabhupada says about Gaudiya Matha) there could be another "self effulgent Acharya" to come someday.

[jailmate]

Batman told me to ask your big gayguy how he got all those devoteeez, Robin?


Shaduhz vote Jailmate

[Krishnadasa]

Yes if you listen to the "Hair" song track you will hear the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra and sung as Prabhupada sang it too. Very nice

[sleeping jiva]

hey, Krishna dasa!

We discussed this. Try to browse throught the previous posts. My opinion is that we should always listen to Prabhupada FIRST. I've never been a member of any devotees organization and I have no connections with devotees, but I 've read Bhagavadgita and since that my life became way more happy. I started this thread as a member of hipforums, I'm not a moderator. There are moderators on this site, but I suppose they have no Krishna knowledge, so you won't be banned, don't worry. :) It would be great if a new acarya came, cuz then it would be all more clearer, I heard that ritviks are cool tho. What do think, what if this new acarya will come through them? Sorry, I have no knowlegde about this, I heard about the scandals of the fallen gurus and I don't trust a word to them. So far, we've been discussing Prabhupada's books a lot -that's what I like to do the most. Glad that you've made it here :)

[Krishnadasa]

Thankyou for coming back in this way, so I will not have to point out to you about all the bogi yogis and also do not have to tell oyou about Prabhupada's glories.

I see you live in Montreal, do you go to the temple?

I have been told about a strictly Prabhupada Restaurant there in Montreal too, do you know?

Hare Krishna

[sleeping jiva]

yeah I was there! :) two times and I will definetely go there again. I don't go to temple tho, I just can't do it, dunno why. I got a phobia from churches, I hope i'll manage to go there in the future. What do u mean by stricly Prabhupada restaurant? I have visited only this one, so I can't compare. I was wondering why there are salt and pepper on the tables. How do u offer salt and pepper to Krishna? Do u know? hey, I'm happy you are here.haribol!

[ChiefCowpie]

http://www.amma.org/eNews/Aug04/img/header.jpg In this issue

http://www.amma.org/eNews/Aug04/img/quick-links.jpgMessage (http://by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg?msg=MSG1092684390.40&start=201903&len=19317&imgsafe=n&curmbox=F000000001&a=2c505845f2b772cf65ec6fb729cd75d5#message)Experie nce (http://by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg?msg=MSG1092684390.40&start=201903&len=19317&imgsafe=n&curmbox=F000000001&a=2c505845f2b772cf65ec6fb729cd75d5#experience)Book store (http://by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg?msg=MSG1092684390.40&start=201903&len=19317&imgsafe=n&curmbox=F000000001&a=2c505845f2b772cf65ec6fb729cd75d5#bookstore)Retre ats (http://by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg?msg=MSG1092684390.40&start=201903&len=19317&imgsafe=n&curmbox=F000000001&a=2c505845f2b772cf65ec6fb729cd75d5#rkswami)Gems (http://by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg?msg=MSG1092684390.40&start=201903&len=19317&imgsafe=n&curmbox=F000000001&a=2c505845f2b772cf65ec6fb729cd75d5#gems)Charities (http://by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg?msg=MSG1092684390.40&start=201903&len=19317&imgsafe=n&curmbox=F000000001&a=2c505845f2b772cf65ec6fb729cd75d5#charities)
"Love and compassion are the very essence of all religions.
Where, then, is the need for us to compete unnecessarily? "
- Amma addresses the Parliament of World Religions again this year in Barcelona, Spain


Read the entire talk ("][/url]Amma's Message
Amma addresses the Parliament of World Religions again this year in Barcelona, SpainAmma gave the closing plenary address to a thunderous standing ovation on the final evening of the ten-day gathering of the 2004 Parliament of the World's Religions. She was joined at the ceremonies by Federico Mayor, the former UNESCO Director-General, and Dr. Raimon Pannikkar, a respected Spanish philosopher.

Amma's discourse stressed the importance of harnessing "spiritual power" in an effort to rise above religious differences. "The problem arises when we say my religion is right; yours is wrong. This is like saying my mother is good; yours is a prostitute." Amma emphasized that "love and compassion are the very essence of all religions."

Love is our true essence. Love has no limitations of caste, religion, race, or nationality. We are all beads strung together on the same thread of love. To awaken this unity-and to spread to others the love that is our inherent nature-is the true goal of human life.

Indeed, love is the only religion that can help humanity to rise to great and glorious heights. Love should be the one string on which all religions and philosophies are strung together. The beauty of society lies in the unity of hearts.

[url="http://64.4.43.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=a4efe6b3d1e732dd50939bd3832a3ab7&lat=1092690839&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eammachi%2eorg%2famm a%2finternational%2dforum%2fun2004%2dtext%2ehtml)

[ChiefCowpie]

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Lasting Solution for Modern-Day Conflicts

Amma's closing plenary address at the 2004 Parliament of the World's Religions.

http://www.ammachi.org/amma/images/cpwr3.jpgAmma bows down to everyone here, who are embodiments of pure love and the Supreme Consciousness. The effort and self-sacrifice of those who are capable of organizing such an enormous event are beyond words. Amma simply bows down in front of such selflessness.

Our Treasure, Our Power

Our God-given abilities are a treasure, meant for ourselves as well as for the entire world. This wealth should not be misused, creating a burden for us and for the world. The greatest tragedy in life is not death; the greatest tragedy takes place when our talents and capabilities are under utilized and allowed to rust while we are living. When we use the wealth obtained from nature, it diminishes; but when we use the wealth of our inner capabilities, it increases.

But, are we using our abilities properly? What has always been the aim of humanity? Where has human society always yearned to reach? Has it not always been everyone's goal to obtain as much happiness and contentment as possible in both our personal lives and in society? But where do we stand today? Most of us move from one mistake to another, which only makes our problems worse.

Every country has tried increasing its power in politics, the military, weaponry, economics, science and technology. Is there anything we have yet to test and explore? We are all so focused on those areas. Having tried these methods for so long, have we achieved any real peace or contentment? No. Time has proven that these methods alone cannot secure us contentment. Only if spiritual power - with which we have never before experimented - grows alongside all those different areas, can we attain the peace and contentment we are seeking.

Restore the Inner Connectivity

In reality, there is only one difference between people in wealthy countries and poor countries: while people in wealthy countries are crying in air-conditioned rooms and palatial mansions, the people of poor countries are crying on the dirt floors of their huts.

In any case, one thing is clear: people, who once hoped to smile and be happy, are now shedding tears in many parts of the world. Sorrow and suffering are becoming the hallmark of many countries. It is senseless to blame all these on religion alone. A major cause of these problems is the interpretation people have given to religion and spirituality.

In short, today we search externally for the causes and solutions to all the problems of the world. In our haste, we forget the greatest truth of all - that the source of all problems is to be found within the human mind. We forget that the world will become good only if the mind of the individual becomes good. So, along with an understanding of the outer world, it is essential that we also come to know the inner world.

There was once a function to inaugurate a new supercomputer. After the inauguration, the participants were told that they could ask the supercomputer any question and it would come up with the answer in seconds. Everyone did their best to ask the computer the most complicated questions relating to science, history, geography, and so on. As soon as each question was posed, the answer would pop up on the screen. Then, a child stood up and asked the supercomputer a simple question: "Hello, Supercomputer. How are you today?" The screen remained blank for a long time and there was no response! The computer could come up with answers to questions about everything except itself.

Most of us live in a state similar to that of the computer. Along with our understanding of the outside world, we should also develop our knowledge about our inner world.

When our telephone is out of order, we call the telephone company to repair it; when our cable TV fails to receive programs clearly, the cable company helps us; and when our Internet connection is not working, the Internet company fixes it. In a similar way, spirituality is the means to restore our inner connection with the Divine. The science of spirituality puts the 'remote control' of our mind back into our hands.

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[ChiefCowpie]

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Lasting Solution for Modern-Day Conflicts (2)

Amma's closing plenary address at the 2004 Parliament of the World's Religions. (continued from page 1 (http://www.ammachi.org/amma/international-forum/un2004-text.html))

Education for Life

http://www.ammachi.org/amma/images/cpwr1.jpgThere are two types of education: education for a living and education for life. When we study in college, striving to become a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer - this is education for a living. On the other hand, education for life requires understanding the essential principles of spirituality. This means gaining a deeper understanding of the world, our minds, our emotions, and ourselves. We all know that the real goal of education is not to create people who can understand only the language of machines. The main purpose of education should be to impart a culture of the heart - a culture based on spiritual values.

Essence of Religion

Viewing religion externally creates more and more division. We need to see and understand the inside, the essence of religion, from a spiritual perspective. Only then will the feeling of division come to an end. Where there is division, there cannot be any real spiritual experience; and where there is spiritual experience, there can be no division - only unity and love. Religious leaders should be prepared to work on the basis of this knowledge, and make their followers aware of these truths.

The problem arises when we say, "Our religion is right; yours is wrong." This is like saying, "My mother is good; yours is a prostitute!" Love and compassion are the very essence of all religions. Where, then, is the need for us to compete unnecessarily?

Love is our true essence. Love has no limitations of caste, religion, race, or nationality. We are all beads strung together on the same thread of love. To awaken this unity - and to spread to others the love that is our inherent nature - is the true goal of human life.

Indeed, love is the only religion that can help humanity to rise to great and glorious heights. Love should be the one string on which all religions and philosophies are strung together. The beauty of society lies in the unity of hearts.

Different Paths

There is much diversity in Sanatana Dharma, India's ancient spiritual tradition. Every person is unique. Everyone has a different mental constitution. The seers provided us with a multitude of paths, so that each individual can choose the way most suitable for him or her. All locks cannot be opened with the same key, nor does everyone use the same type of clothing or food. This diversity holds equally true for spirituality - the same path will not be suitable for everyone.

Communication

Thus, meetings and conferences such as this need to place more emphasis on spirituality - the inner essence of religion. This is the only way to achieve peace and unity. This conference should not be just a meeting of bodies. On occasions such as this, a true meeting should take place - one in which we can see and know each other's hearts.

Communication through machines has even made people in far off places seem very close. Yet, in the absence of communication between hearts, even those who are physically close to us seem very far away. So, this should not be an ordinary conference, "where everyone talks, nobody listens, and everyone disagrees."

Listening to others is important. We may see and hear many things in the world. But we shouldn't meddle in the affairs of others, because that can have dangerous consequences. Amma remembers a story.

A man once walked past a mental hospital and heard a voice moaning, "13...13...13...13..." The man went closer to locate where the sound was coming from. He saw a hole in the wall and realized that the sound was coming from the other side. Out of curiosity, he put his ear into the hole, hoping to hear well. Suddenly something bit him hard on the ear. As the man screamed in pain, the moaning voice groaned, "14...14...14...14..!" We should use our power of discrimination to distinguish between what we should or should not pay attention to.

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[ChiefCowpie]

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Lasting Solution for Modern-Day Conflicts (3)

Amma's closing plenary address at the 2004 Parliament of the World's Religions. (continued from page 2 (http://www.ammachi.org/amma/international-forum/un2004-text2.html))

Religion & Spirituality

True religious leaders love and worship the whole Creation, seeing it as God Consciousness. They see the unity in diversity. But nowadays, many religious leaders misinterpret the words and experiences of the ancient Seers and Prophets, exploiting weak-minded people.

Religion and spirituality are the keys to open our hearts and see everyone with compassion. But, blinded by our selfishness, our minds have lost their proper judgment and our vision has become distorted. This attitude will only serve to create more darkness. Using the same key meant to open our hearts, our indiscriminate mindset is locking it shut.

There were once four men who had gone to attend a religious conference and had to pass the night together on an island. It was a bitter-cold night. Each traveler carried a matchbox and a small bundle of firewood in his pack - but each one thought that he was the only one who had firewood and matches.

The first man thought, "Judging from the medallion around that man's neck, I would say he is from some other religion. If I start a fire, he will also benefit from its warmth. Why should I use my wood to warm him?"

The second man thought, "That person is from the country that has always fought against us. I wouldn't dream of using my wood to make him comfortable!"

The third man looked at one of the others and thought, "I know this guy. He belongs to a sect that always creates problems in my religion. I'm not going to use up my wood for his sake!"

The last man thought, "This guy has a different skin colour than mine, and I hate that! There's no way I'm going to use my wood for him!"

In the end, not one of them was willing to light his wood to warm the others, and so, by morning they all froze to death. Similarly, we quarrel in the name of religion, caste, nation, and colour, without showing any compassion towards our fellow beings.

Modern society is like a person suffering from a severe fever. As the fever increases, the patient says senseless things. Pointing at a chair on the floor, he may ask, "Why is that chair flying?" What answer can we give? How can we prove to him that the chair is not flying? There is only one way to help him: we have to give him medicine to bring down the fever. Once the fever is reduced, everything will return to normal.

Today, people are suffering from the fever of selfishness, greed, unrestrained desire and so forth.

Religion and spirituality form the path that helps transform the anger within us into compassion, our hatred into love, our lustful thoughts into divine thoughts, and our jealousy into sympathy. Yet, in our present deluded mental state, most of us do not understand this.

Wage a War Against Our Common Enemy

http://www.ammachi.org/amma/images/cpwr4.jpgSociety is comprised of individuals. It is the conflict in the individual mind that manifests as war. When individuals change, society will automatically change. Just as hatred and vengefulness exist in the mind, peace and love can also exist in the mind.

To wage wars, we spend billions of dollars and engage countless people. Think of how much attention and intense effort go into that process! If we were to use even a fraction of this money and effort for the sake of world peace, we could definitely bring about peace and harmony in this world.

Every country spends huge amounts on building security systems. Security is indispensable. But the greatest security of all is to absorb the spiritual principles and live accordingly. We have forgotten this.

The enemies that are today attacking us from within and without cannot be dealt with just by increasing the strength of our weapons. We can no longer afford to delay the rediscovery and strengthening of our most powerful weapon, spirituality, which is inherent in us all.

There are over a billion people in this world suffering from poverty and starvation. This, in truth, is our greatest enemy. Poverty is one of the basic reasons why people commit theft and murder, and become terrorists and prostitutes. Poverty not only affects the body, but also weakens the mind. Such minds are influenced in the name of religion and injected with the poison of terrorist ideals. Looking at it this way, Amma feels that 80% of the problems in society would be resolved if we were to eradicate poverty.

In general, the human race is on a journey without a clear goal.

A man drove up to an intersection and asked a pedestrian, "Could you tell me where this road leads to?"

The pedestrian responded, "Where do you want to go?"

The man replied, "I don't know."

"Well then," said the pedestrian, "it obviously doesn't matter which road you take!"

We shouldn't become like this driver.

We need a clear goal. Amma is alarmed to see the direction in which the world is heading. If, in the future, there is a Third World War, let it not be a war between countries, but rather a war against our common enemy, poverty.

In today's world, people experience two types of poverty: the poverty caused by lack of food, clothing and shelter; and the poverty caused by lack of love and compassion.

Of these two, the second type needs to be considered first - because, if we have love and compassion in our hearts, then we will wholeheartedly serve those who suffer from lack of food, clothing and shelter.

It is not the era we live in, but the compassionate hearts that will bring about a change in society. Religions should be able to create more compassionate hearts. This should be the main objective of religion and spirituality.

In order to protect this world, we have to choose a path forsaking our personal differences and desires. By forgiving and forgetting, we can try to recreate and give new life to this world. Digging up and scrutinizing the past is useless, and will benefit no one.

Abandoning the path of vengeance and retaliation, we need to impartially judge the present situation in the world. Only then can we find the path to true progress.

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[ChiefCowpie]

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Lasting Solution for Modern-Day Conflicts (4)

Amma's closing plenary address at the 2004 Parliament of the World's Religions. (continued from page 3 (http://www.ammachi.org/amma/international-forum/un2004-text3.html))

Beauty Unified in Diversity

http://www.ammachi.org/amma/images/cpwr2.jpgTrue unity - both amongst humanity and between humanity and Nature - will come only through our faith in the immense power of the inner Self, which is beyond all external differences.

A rainbow gives visual splendour and also has an inner significance that helps expand the mind. A rainbow is formed by the convergence of seven different colours, making it so attractive and beautiful. In a similar way, we should be able to recognize and accept the differences created by religion, nationality, language and culture. We should be able to join hands, giving primary importance to humanity and universal human values.

A rainbow appears and disappears in the sky within a span of minutes. However, in that short life span, the rainbow is able to make everyone happy. Just like the rainbow, which appears small in the infinite sky, our life span, which appears for just a short while within the infinite span of time, is also very small and insignificant. As long as we live in this world, our greatest and foremost duty (dharma) is to be of some benefit to others. Only when goodness awakens within the individual will one's personality and actions gain beauty and strength.

There once was a little girl who was permanently in a wheelchair. Her disability made her angry and frustrated with life. All day long, she would sit by her window moping, enviously watching all the other little children as they ran, jumped, skipped and played with each other.

One day, as she sat gazing through the window, it began to drizzle. Suddenly, a beautiful rainbow appeared in the sky. Instantly, the little girl forgot about her wheelchair, her disability and her sorrow. The colourful rainbow filled her with happiness and hope. But then, just as suddenly as it had appeared, the rain stopped and the rainbow vanished. The memory of the rainbow filled her with a strange peace and joy. She asked her mother where the rainbow had gone. Her mother answered, "My darling, rainbows are very special creations. They exist only when the sun and rain come together."

From then on, the little girl would sit by her window, waiting for the sun and the rain to come together. She no longer cared to watch the other children play.

Finally, one bright, sunny day, it unexpectedly began to rain lightly, and the most heavenly-coloured rainbow appeared in the sky. The little girl's joy knew no bounds. She called out to her mother to come quickly and take her to the rainbow. Not wanting to disappoint her daughter, the mother helped her little girl into the car and drove off in the direction of the rainbow. Finally, when they arrived at a point where they had a good view of the rainbow, the mother stopped the car and helped her daughter to get out, so that she could enjoy the sight.

Looking up at the rainbow, she asked, "Wondrous rainbow, how is it that you are able to shine so radiantly?"

The rainbow replied, "My dear child, I have a very short life span. Only for a brief span of time while the sun and rain come together do I exist. Rather than fret over my short existence, I have decided that within my brief life span, I want to make as many people as I can as happy as possible. And when I decided to do that, I became radiant and beautiful."

Then, even as the rainbow was still speaking, it began to fade - until, finally, it was no more. The little girl looked up with love and admiration at the spot in the blue sky where the rainbow had just been. From that day on, the little girl was never the same. Instead of moping and fretting about her disability, she tried to smile and bring happiness to everyone around her. Thus, she found true happiness and satisfaction in life.

The rainbow was so beautiful because it forgot about itself and lived for the sake of others. Similarly, it is when we forget about ourselves and live for the happiness of others that we experience the real beauty of life.

The body will perish whether we work or sit idle. Therefore, instead of rusting away without doing anything for society, it is better to wear oneself away in the pursuit of good actions.

The Creator & The Creation

In Sanatana Dharma - the Eternal Religion (as Hinduism is called) - there is the following mantra: "Lokah Samastha Sukhino Bhavantu", meaning "May all the worlds be happy."

According to the scriptures of India, there is no difference between the Creator and creation, just as there is no difference between the ocean and its waves; the essence of both the ocean and the waves is one and the same: it is water; gold and gold ornaments are the same because gold is the substance of the ornaments; and clay and the clay pot are ultimately one and the same because the material of the pot is clay. So there is no difference between the Creator or God, and the created, the world. Essentially they are one and the same - pure consciousness.

So, we should learn to love everyone equally, because in essence we are all one, one Atman, one soul. Though externally everything looks different, internally all are manifestations of the absolute Self.

God is not a limited individual, who sits alone up in the clouds on a golden throne. God is the pure Consciousness that dwells within everything. We need to understand this truth, and thereby learn to accept and to love everyone equally.

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[ChiefCowpie]

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Lasting Solution for Modern-Day Conflicts (5)

Amma's closing plenary address at the 2004 Parliament of the World's Religions. (continued from page 4 (http://www.ammachi.org/amma/international-forum/un2004-text4.html))

What We Should Do?

http://www.ammachi.org/amma/images/cpwr5.jpgJust as the sun doesn't need the light of a candle, God doesn't need anything from us. God is the giver of everything. We should move amongst the suffering people and serve them.

There are millions of refugees and destitute people in the world. Governments are trying to help such people in various ways, but the world needs far more people who are ready to work in a spirit of selflessness. At the hands of self-serving people, one million dollars becomes only 100,000 dollars by the time it reaches the people who should benefit from the funds. It is like pouring oil from one container into another and then another. After doing this many times, there is no oil left because some of it sticks to each container. But with those who are engaged in selfless service, it is quite different. Such people may receive only hundreds of thousands of dollars, but will deliver the equivalent of millions to people in need. This is because their motives are selfless; they simply desire to benefit society. Rather than take any pay for themselves, they donate it to those who are suffering.

If we have at least a little compassion in our hearts, we should commit ourselves to working overtime an extra half hour a day for the sake of those who are suffering - this is Amma's request. Amma believes that in this way a solution for all the sorrow and poverty in the world will be revealed.

Today’s world needs people who express goodness in their words and deeds. If such noble role models set the example for their fellow beings, the darkness prevailing in today’s society will be dispelled, and the light of peace and non-violence will once again illumine this earth. Let us work together towards this goal.


Our Life Should Be...

May the tree of our life be firmly rooted in the soil of love;
Let good deeds be the leaves on that tree;
May words of kindness form its flowers;
May peace be its fruits.

Let us grow and unfold as one family, united in love so that we may rejoice and celebrate our oneness in a world where peace and contentment prevail.

As Amma concludes her words, she would also like to add that, in truth, nothing ends. Just like the period at the end of a sentence, there is only a short pause - a pause before a new beginning on the path to peace. May divine Grace bless us with the strength to carry forth this message.

Aum Shanti...Shanti...Shanti...

[BlackBillBlake]

I am so happy to hear from other devotees around the world here.

Hare Krishna, and please accept my humble obeisances. KRISHNA DASAWelcome Prabhu to our thread! Happy to hear from you!
Glad to hear you have heard all about the scandals etc that have gone on within ISKCON since Srila Prabhupada's departure from materiel vision. And as Sleeping Jiva says in his post, we have had some discussion of this here. It is well worth looking back over previous posts, as there is some great stuff on many different aspects of Krishna Consciousness.

Hare Krishna!

BBB.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

BBB! I love that picture! My friend Tulsi showed it to me once...its Lord Caityana, right?

[BlackBillBlake]

BBB! I love that picture! My friend Tulsi showed it to me once...its Lord Caityana, right?Yes, it's Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Usually, He is pictured performing Kirtana, Chanting of Krishna's names along with his associates,Sri Adwaita Archarya, Sri Nityananda Prabhu,Sri Gadadhar, and Sri Srinivas. This is called Sri Pancha Tatva. Srila Prabhupada's 'Teachings of Lord Chaitanya' (later re-issued as 'The Golden Avatar') is a very good introduction to His life and teachings, which are fully explored in 'Sri Chaitanya Karitamrita'.
He is Krishna's Avatar for the age of kali, the iron age of ignorance, and He comes to spread everywhere the divine Nectar of Krishna's Holy Name, and to establish this as the foremost means of liberation in this age for everyone. Krishna comes as his own Devotee to show the way of devotion to the fallen souls of kali yuga. And the process is so easy! Just chant Hare Krishna!
Sri Gauranga (the golden one or golden avatar) is said to be more merciful than Krishna Himself.
Here is a link to an online article by Srila Prabhupada

http://caitanya.krishna.org/Articles/2000/06/00016.html (http://caitanya.krishna.org/Articles/2000/06/00016.html)


Hari Om!

[sleeping jiva]

hey, BBB (sorry to nickname u in this way, hope u don't mind :)

long time no see, I like the website : http://www.krishna.org (http://www.krishna.org/) u've posted from. There are many lectures of Prabhupada on it.

SavageGardenBeauty: there's this mantra, which can be chanted before mahamantra as a thanks to Lord Caitanya and his companions:

sri krsna caitanya prabhu nityananda
sri advaita gadadhara srivasadi gaura bhakta vrnda

I always chant it before mahamantra

Chief Cow Pie: What about Krsna, who is the Supreme Controller of all of this? Where is He? lol

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Thanks to both of you for the info...sorry on the misspell :& ...


SleepingJiva...just curious, what does it mean?

[Krishnadasa]

JAYA SHREE KRISHNA CHAITANYA,PRABHU NITYANANDA,SHREE ADVAITA GADADHARA,SRIVASADI GAURA BHAKTA VRINDA
those words are the names of this holy five.....

http://logo.cafepress.com/4/437059.65904.jpg

[Jedi]

Thanks to both of you for the info...sorry on the misspell :& ...


SleepingJiva...just curious, what does it mean?
You offer pranams- salutations to the guru chaitanya's devotion. This mantra is chanted to 'clean' oneself before presenting him/herself before the holy name.

The holy name is krishna himself- who is pure, therefore, it is most appropriate to purify our tongue before chanting. How do you do it? - with the help of a guru and who is more best than chaitya guru? Sri krishna chaitanya is the supreme guru when it comes to chanting the holy name of the lord and refering to him would clean one's self before he presents himself in krishna's service.

[Krishnadasa]

IN THIS AGE OF KALIYUGA THE MOST EFFICIENT AND EASY SYSTEM OF REVIVING OUR DORMANT LOVE OF GODHEAD IS TO CHANT HARE KRISHNA


A TEMPLE CAN BE MADE BY HAVING THE ABOVE PANCHA TATVA OR HOLY FIVE, WHO POPULARIZED AND FOUNDED THE CHANTING OF THE MAHA/BIG MANTRA OR HARE KRISHNA

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

You offer pranams- salutations to the guru chaitanya's devotion. This mantra is chanted to 'clean' oneself before presenting him/herself before the holy name.

The holy name is krishna himself- who is pure, therefore, it is most appropriate to purify our tongue before chanting. How do you do it? - with the help of a guru and who is more best than chaitya guru? Sri krishna chaitanya is the supreme guru when it comes to chanting the holy name of the lord and refering to him would clean one's self before he presents himself in krishna's service.
Ahh...makes sense indeed :) Why not get help from he who has taught us how to love Krishna in the age of Kali yuga? Makes much sense. Thank you for helping me out there... :) Haribol!

[ChiefCowpie]

Chief Cow Pie: What about Krsna, who is the Supreme Controller of all of this? Where is He? lol
http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=283565#post283565

[jesuswasamonkey]

Hey Chief, it's really cool how you went into that thread and edited Jerry's post for him. I'm sure he meant to say Hare Krishna when he said cockmonster. I'm so glad the mods around here know how to use their power responsibly.

[sleeping jiva]

hahahahaha

[jesuswasamonkey]

Hey, the only thing that bugs me more than people with big hats using their power responsibly, is people with big hats using their power irresponsibly.

[gdkumar]

HARE KRISHNA!

Jaya Gauranga Mahaprabhu! Jaya Nityananda Mahaprabhu!

Glory to Ma Amritanandamayee, Ma Indira, Ma Sharadamani, Ma Yoshoda, Ma Anandamayee, Adya Ma, Ma Mira Bai....... and glory to our mothers who gave us these lives to take the opportunity of chanting His name.

THE FLUTE SINGS:

The following beautiful vision is as told by Ma Indira after coming out from a deep Bhav-samadhi :

" The morning air was fragrant with the scent of flowers. The golden light of the sun caressed the emerald leaves and opening blossoms. The blue-scarfed Yamuna was flowing on in an uncontainable ecstasy. All Nature was at the festival of spring, expecting the Advent of the Evergreen, the Best-beloved of Brindaban. Even the dust and gravel quivered in joy and the grass-blades swayed in delight. 'He is coming, He is coming', they all whispered in thrilled expectation. Only under a Kadamba tree, a flute, ignored by all, lay inert and unresponsive. So they all said in derision: 'Look! How shameful! We are all in an ecstasy - but he seems utterly dead!......' and so on, they tittered in chorus.

All on a sudden, the Lord, the Evergreen, came dancing in and took up the flute and played, entrancing all. And then the dead Flute came to life with God-light at its core. It sang :

'You were all in raptures, eager to hail Him, our heart's Prince and Swain. But know that even when He was not there you all lived your own lives apart from Him. But not I. I have no life to live sundered from Him, whose breath is my own life, whose melody is my only music and whose love is my only love. I exist only for Him, through Him and in Him. Without Him I am a cipher - that is why I lay dead and inert. No ridicule or contempt could stir me. His breath - and only His breath which could bring my dead self back to life.'

And they were hushed in shame. "

That is known as dissolving in His love, that is self-giving and total surrender.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dacoit Ratnakar was told by the Sadhu, who opened up his eyes to see the reality, to chant Lord Rama's name. Dacoit said, "Prabhu, I am such a sinner that I can not take His name, I can not pronounce." The Sadhu told Ratnakar, "It does not matter. You remember Lord Rama, give your mind at His lotus feet and utter 'Mara'. We may be ignorant but He is not. When you remember Him, even if you incorrectly take His name, He knows that you are calling Him only. Slowly His love and light will fill you up, all sins and ignorance will go away. You shall be able to take His name properly. So start chanting 'Mara'."

Ratnakar did as he was advised. Very soon 'Mara' became 'Rama'.
Mara-mara-mara-mara-maramaramaramaramarama-rama-rama-rama-Rama.

Later on He became the great sage, Valmiki. WE got the Ramayana from Him.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

[sleeping jiva]

gdkumar: oh, thanks, I had a good laugh. Mara-maramaramara. That was so smart trick to tell him :) everybody chant sincerely with thought on Krishna, God, it's so easy:

[Krishnadasa]

Since the human form of body is very "special", we in them should be very anxcious to use them properly. Any animal can eat, sleep, mate and defend, but we can do that and awaken our sleeping love of God.


But we must do that, how to wake up? Chant Hare Krishna @ the top of your lungs!

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Hey Chief, it's really cool how you went into that thread and edited Jerry's post for him. I'm sure he meant to say Hare Krishna when he said cockmonster. I'm so glad the mods around here know how to use their power responsibly.
lol...there are def much worse things that he could have made him say...lol.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

gdkumar and krishnadasa I loved both of your posts...thank you for sharing. :) Just chant. We were at practice and we were talking about our hobbies outside of band yesterday and my friend Heather said to me, "You should have said being a hippie." and I laughed and replied, "Yes, and chanting 'Hare Krishna' " and she got the small joke I was making. My friend Anthony, who was also talking with us said to me, "Why in the world do you chant 'Hare Krishna'." And I said to him, "I can't explain, but the simplest answer is because I want to." and we left it at that...but this whole talk of chanting made me think of that...oo...speaking of marching band practice...I must be off...see you all later! :) Haribol!

[Krishnadasa]

HE GIVES PLEASURE TO THE COWS...

[sleeping jiva]

Why in the world do you chant 'Hare Krishna'?

lol. they cannot understand pleasure.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Why in the world do you chant 'Hare Krishna'?

lol. they cannot understand pleasure.
lol...I'm not quite sure he understands what it is...::shrug::. It was neither the time or place to explain it...but I swear when I said it he gave me the funniest look... :) hehe...so did the girls from the colour guard during stretchs because instead of counting numbers, I keep count with the maha mantra (which is exactly 16 counts...not like it makes much of a difference)...and after awhile some of them started to look at me and I'm sure they were thinking, "What is she doing??"...lol...not like I care...but its funny...they all think I'm a loony any way...hehehe

[BlackBillBlake]

Sri Krishna and the Gopis



By Sri Aurobindo.



It is not the heart of the devotee but the mind of the observer that questions how it is that the Gopis were called and responded at once and others -the Brahmin women, for instance -were not called and did not respond at once. Once the mind puts the question, there are two possible answers: the mere will of Krishna without any reason, what the mind would call his absolute divine choice or his arbitrary divine caprice or else the readiness of the heart that is called and that amounts to adhikaribheda. .A third reply would be circumstances, as for instance, "the parking off the spiritual ground into close preserves" as X puts it. But then how can circumstances prevent the Grace from acting? In spite of parking off it works: Christians, Mahomedans do answer to the Grace of Krishna. Tigers, ghouls must love if they see him, hear his flute? Yes, but why do some hear it and see him, others not?



We are thrown back on two alternatives: Krishna's Grace calls whom it wills to call without any determining reason for the choice or the rejection, it is all his mercy or his withholding or at least delaying of his mercy, or else he calls the hearts that are ready to vibrate and leap up at his call -and even there he waits till the moment has come. To say that it does not depend on outward merit or appearance of fitness is no doubt true: the something that was ready to wake in spite, it may be, of many hard layers in which it was enclosed, may be something visible to Krishna and not to us.'



It was there perhaps long before the flute began to play, but Krishna was busy melting the hard layers So that the heart in its leap might not be pressed back by them when the awakening notes came. The Gopis heard and rushed out into the forest, the others did not, or did they think it was only some rustic music or some rude cowherd-lover fluting to his sweetheart, not a call that learned and cultured or virtuous ears could recognise as the call of the Divine? There is something to be said after all for the adhikiiri-bheda. But, of course, it must be understood in the large sense: some may have the adhikiira for recognising Krishna's flute, some for the call of Christ, some for the dance of Shiva -to each his own way and his nature's answer to the Divine Call. Adhikiira cannot be stated in rigid mental terms: it is something spiritual and subtle, something mystic and secret between the called and the Caller .



Do you remember the story of Sri Krishna and the 'Gopis,

how Narada found him differently occupied in each house to which he went, present to each Gopi in a different body, yet always the same Sri Krishna? Apart from the devotional meaning of the story , which you know, it is a good image of his World-Lila. He is sarva, everyone, each Purusha with his apparently different Prakriti and action is he, and yet at the same time he is the Purushottama who is with Radha, the Para Prakriti, and can withdraw all these into himself when he wills and put them out again when he wills. From one point of view they are one with him, from another one yet different, from yet another always different because they always exist, latent in him or expressed at his pleasure. There is no profit in disputing about these standpoints. - Wait until you see God and know yourself and him and then debate and discussion will be unnecessary .



If we regard Vaikuntha or Goloka each as the world of a Divinity , Vishnu or Krishna, we would be naturally led to seek its place or its origin in the overmind plane. The overmind is the plane of the highest worlds of the Gods. But Vaikuntha and Goloka are human conceptions of states of being that are beyond humanity .Goloka is evidently a world of Love, Beauty and Ananda full of spiritual radiances (the cow is the symbol of spiritual Light) of which the souls there are keepers or possessors, Gopas and Gopis. It is not necessary to assign any single plane to this manifestation -in fact, there can be a reflection. or possession of it or of its conditions on any plane of consciousness -the mental, vital or even the subtle physical plane.





The story of Brindavan does not enter into the main story of the Mahabharata and has a Puranic origin and it could be maintained that it was intended all along to have a symbolic character. At one time I accepted that explanation, but I had to abandon it afterwards; there is nothing in the Puranas that betrays any such intention. It seems to me that it is related as something that actually occurred or occurs somewhere. The Gopis are to them realities and not symbols. It was for them at the least an occult truth, and occult and symbolic are not the same thing; the symbol may be only a significant mental construction or only a fanciful invention, but the occult is a reality which is actual somewhere, behind the material scene as it were and can have its truth for the terrestrial life and its influence upon it may even embody itself there. The Lila of the Gopis seems to be conceived as something which is always going on in a divine Gokul and which projected itself in an earthly Brindavan and can always be realised and its meaning made actual in the soul. It is to be presumed that the writers of the Puranas took it as having been actually projected on earth in the life of the incarnate Krishna and it has been so accepted by the religious mind of India.





Some say Krishna never lived, he is a myth. They mean on earth; for if Brindavan existed nowhere, the Bhagavatt could not have been written.



The Gopis are not ordinary people in the proper sense of the word: they are embodiments of a spiritual passion, extraordinary by their extremeness of love, personal devotion, unreserved self-giving. Whoever has that, however humble his or her position in other respects (learning, power of presentation, scholarship, external sanctity, etc.) can easily follow after Krishna and reach him: that seems to me the sense of the symbol of the Gopis. There are many other significances, of course ; that is only one among the many.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

BlackBillBlake dear,

Thank you for the wonderful piece of the truth. Such articles can take us really closer to Him in no time. Thakur Ramakrishna used to often say that years of darkness of a room can be removed in a moment with just one strike of a match-stick.
So very true!

The following is from "Search for Truth" by Yogi Sri Krishnaprem. Hope, this acts as a wake-up call for most of us.

"Life is like a flooded river carrying with it in its mad rush all manner of struggling beings, men, women, children and animals as well as all manner of trees and wreckage,carrying them all down towards the sea of death. Things seem permanent because they are floating along with us, but all alike are rushing towards the end and not one of them can help us. Father, mother, friends, relations, not one of them can save us, for all are in the same flood. Only by reaching the bank can safety be obtained. And the bank of this river is God, call Him by whatever name you will. Neither is the bank far away. Hidden in our own heart, seated in the very midst of our being, is the deathless, unchanging one, shining with brightness as of a million suns. None can describe Him, nor ever will, but He is there and He may, as the Gita says, be known and seen and entered into by those who strive to do so.

This is no fancy of poets, no myths or legend of long ago, no dream of white-haired old men. It is the living truth, truer than all sciences and all history. It is knowledge of this truth that has given birth to all religions and it is forgetfulness of it that has led to their corruption and death. It may be seen and experienced by us, too, not in some heaven after death but here and now in this very life. Therefore, as the Upanishad says: 'Arise, awake and seek out the Great Ones who will teach you the way to the goal.' "

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.


With love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Dear Kumar,


That is indeed a great wake-up call!:) Thanks for posting it.

Glad you found the piece by Sri Aurobindo useful.

Hari Om!

BBB.

[Krishnadasa]

The only thing good I ever got from Sri Aurabindu and it is better than good its great!

Sai Flora "fluxo" insense very nice

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Bhakta and Premi.

Sage Narada was a great Bhakta and was very proud. He always used to think that he was the greatest Bhakta of God and the pride was becoming more and more. So, Lord Bishnu decided to teach him a lesson.

One day as Narada entered to see Bishnu he found Him in pain and in restless mood. Being extremely concerned and worried he asked, "O Lord! May I know what is wrong? Is there anything that I can do for you?" Bhagwan Bishnu said, "O dear Narada, I am having a splitting headache, it is good that you have come. Definitely you can help me."
Narada said, "O Prabhu, please tell me what I should do." Bhagwan Bishnu said,"Dear Narada, just please get me some feet-dust of any of my devotees and apply it on my forehead, I will become fine."

Now that was shocking for Narada, he was hesitant and scared. He thought, 'I am surely a devotee but how can I give my padadhuli(Feet-dust) and apply on my Lord's forehead! I can not do it, impossible!' So, Narada promised to get it and left.

Narada went to Lord Brahma and Lord Shiva in turn, told them the reason and begged for their feet-dust. Both of them were annoyed and reluctant to give it thinking that it is a matter of madness that their feet-dust should even touch Bhagwan Bishnu. Narada anxiously kept on moving from one God to another but alas! There was nobody to give him what he was looking for.

When he was about to give up not knowing what to do suddenly he remembered the Gopis of Brindaban. He knew that they were also great devotees. Immediately he started for the Gopis. After meeting them he apprised them of the reason why he was there. As they came to know the Gopis started crying and said, "O Prabhu Narada, only this much will relieve our Beloved from the pain! Please remove your namabali(A scarf with God's name printed on it) and collect in it our feet-dust as much as you want." Narada, flabbergasted, collected their feet-dust and ran for Bhagwan Bishnu. He told Him that the dust was with him. Being requested, Narada applied the dust on His forehead and Bhagwan heaved a sigh of relief, the headache was gone. He said, "O Narada, you kept me waiting for so long. You always think that you are my greatest devotee yet you could not give me your feet-dust and left me with the pain for so long!"

Narada was ashamed and he realized that the Gopis were not only devotees but premi as well. He also realized that premi-bhaktas are closer to the Lord.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

[Krishnadasa]

For the pleasure of the devotees...........:D :D :D enjoy the transcedental pastimes>

[sleeping jiva]

Thanks everybody for their contribution, Bill for the article, gdkumar for the wake up call and Krishna Dasa for amazing pictures. This thread is like a tree and we are gardeners :)

Krishna dasa: I was reading yur profile and I was very much pleased that you raise a Krishna conscious kid. What is it like? Also, u mentioned protection of cows (do I remeber correclty?). I was wondering, is that true when you don't milk a cow she becomes anxious? I was discussing this topic with vegans and they told me that it's not true.

[Krishnadasa]

http://www.govindas.dk/Govindas%20Site/Govinda.jpgOh:D to be reunited:) as a cow licking at the feet of GOVINDA.

[BlackBillBlake]

The Peace Formula





The earth is the property of God, but we, the living entities, especially the so-called civilized human beings, are claiming God's property as our own, under both an individual and collective false conception. If you want peace, you have to remove this false conception from your mind and from the world. This false claim of proprietorship by the human race on earth is partly or wholly the cause of all disturbances of peace on earth.



Foolish and so-called civilized men are claiming proprietary rights on the property of God because they have now become godless. You cannot be happy and peaceful in a godless society. In the Bhagavad-gita Lord Krsna says that He is the factual enjoyer of all activities of the living entities, that He is the Supreme Lord of all universes, and that He is the well-wishing friend of all beings. When the people of the world know this as the formula for peace, it is then and there that peace will prevail.



Therefore, if you want peace at all, you will have to change your consciousness into Krsna consciousness, both individually and collectively, by the simple process of chanting the holy name of God. This is a standard and recognized process for achieving peace in the world. We therefore recommend that everyone become Krsna conscious by chanting Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.



This is practical, simple, and sublime. Four hundred and eighty years ago this formula was introduced in India by Lord Sri Caitanya, and now it is available in your country. Take to this simple process of chanting as above mentioned, realize your factual position by reading the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, and reestablish your lost relationship with Krsna, God. Peace and prosperity will be the immediate worldwide result.


Srila Prabhupada

Science of Self-Realization

[ChiefCowpie]

The earth is the property of God, but we, the living entities, especially the so-called civilized human beings, are claiming God's property as our own, under both an individual and collective false conception.
"God laughs the hardest when humans draw a line on the ground and claim the land as their own" Ramakrishna

[sleeping jiva]

Nations don't exist, states either.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Wow....all of this liturature and all of the pictures were very lovely. Thank you all of you for sharing them... :) :)

I agree about peace on earth. We talk about it but we can never have it until we realize that none of this is ours...its Krishna's.....This is just part of my long rant (which some of you have heard already....)....

Chant and be happy. If nothing else makes sense...which happens sometimes...just chant....it has made me happier than I have ever known... :)

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare....

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Everything belongs to Krishna!

Thank you, dear ChiefCowpie and BlackBillBlake.
Thank you, dear Krishnadasa for the fascinating photographs.

I do not remember where I read the following story. Hope, it serves the purpose.

There was a great King. His wife, the Queen, was a great yogi. After years of sadhana outside the palace she achieved knowledge and self-realization. She reached the stage of Nirguna when no qualites could touch her. So, she came back to the palace and started living there as before.

Now there started a new problem. Rani's name travelled far and wide and people from all sections of life started coming to see and listen to her rich discourses on spiritual subject. Rani became so famous that hardly a few visitors were there for the King and most of the visitors were for the Rani. Raja was quite upset, annoyed and restless with the thought that nobody pays due attention and respect to him.

After a lot of analysis he decided to renounce everything and become a sadhu to be like his wife. So, he gave away all the property to the Queen and left the palace with only the clothes he was wearing. He went inside a deep dense forest in total desolation and started sadhana. Months and years passed but nothing happened. He thought something was definitely wrong and found it to be his clothes that he did not renounce. So he threw all his clothes except the underwear. It was still of no use. Then he threw the underwear and became completely bare. He thought now I have renounced everything, this time I should be able achieve realization. Years passed by still nothing happened. The King became frustrated and angry. He thought, 'I have renounced everything with no results, now only my body is left - I shall leave that as well.' He managed to light up a fire in the jungle and was about to enter the same to renounce His body.

The Queen, by her spiritual powers, was aware of everything. Suddenly she appeared and stopped the King. The King started crying saying that he renounced everything still he could not receive Lord's compassion and grace. Rani said, "Maharaja, I am sorry, but you have not renounced anything so far. You could renounce something that was your own, but nothing ever belonged to you - the property, the clothes and even the beloved body never belonged to you. Everything is His. If you owned anything that was your sense of the 'I' and 'my' - your ego(Ahamkar) and you still own them. Maharaja, please renounce them-your ahamkar.

Maharaja, still crying, understood and started all over again. He soon had self-realization.


Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

[BlackBillBlake]

Thanks for that Kumar - and thanks to everyone else for enriching us with all this Krishna Katha!


Its absolutely right what the story says - to serve God means to overcome or let go of the ego. Can't serve both at once!

[sleeping jiva]

thanks, gdkumar for a great story

u can't get rid of your ego though. that is the difference between the teachings of Majavadis and Viashnavas, I believe. Ego is your identity, your original essence. We should get rid of false ego -that measn false identification with the body -that is the cause of our illusioned feeling of proprietorship. Ego means that you have freedom of choice. If we had no freedom of choive, it wouldn'be possible to love Krishna.
haribol and thank you

[BlackBillBlake]

thanks, gdkumar for a great story

u can't get rid of your ego though. that is the difference between the teachings of Majavadis and Viashnavas, I believe. Ego is your identity, your original essence. We should get rid of false ego -that measn false identification with the body -that is the cause of our illusioned feeling of proprietorship. Ego means that you have freedom of choice. If we had no freedom of choive, it wouldn'be possible to love Krishna.
haribol and thank youIn a way Sleeping Jiva, you are right.It's just a question of terminology. There is false ego - and that's what I meant by ego in my post. Behind this is the real self, real ego if you like, and that is a fragment of Krishna's energy. It is the same in quality as the Lord Himself, but it is only a small spark, while Krishna is like a great fire.
When I say we can't serve the ego and Krishna, I mean that the false ego is the puppet of the three Gunas, the modes of material nature. It serves only what it sees as its own immediate gratification, and is the very thing that keeps us from realizing who we really are - spiritual beings in relation to God.
When we try sincerely to serve Krishna, naturally false ego falls away and we come to realize more and more our spiritual self.
So Prabhu - that's what we should do - just try to serve Him!

Hare Krishna!

[sleeping jiva]

oh yeah,

sometimes I use it in the same way. By meaning ego I want to say false ego. Mainly becuz I got this association with the word egotism, what is what's happening when you think you are your body. I find this original ego awareness amazing and logical. We're all different, we serve Krishna in 6 billion different ways. That's what makes it fun. :) nice pic :):)

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear BlackBillBlake and SleepingJiva,

Thank you for your kind posts and post analysis. And for those wonderful photographs thanks again.


Battle field of Kurukshetra and Abhimanyu.

The Mahabharata is all about the struggle between the right and wrong, establishment of Naya(Justice) by fighting against Anyay(Injustice). It is all about two related families, the Pandavas(Right group) and the Kauravas(Wrong group). When injustice was made to the Pandavas, they tried their best to come to a peaceful and amicable solution but the Kauravas were not ready for any adjustment. They held on to their wrong doings and invited the Pandavas for an all-out war to get what they lawfully wanted. Then the Pandavas had to reluctantly go for the war for establishment of justice(Dharma). For the Pandavas, in each and every step it was so difficult to think even that they have to fight against their relations, friends, brothers, etc. Then the Greatest Teacher, Lord Krishna came for the counselling as regards how to go about every small doubts and questions in mind and why they should do it. In the same process we got the nectar called the Gita.

The battle field of Kurukshetra is nothing but our battle field of this Sansar, the battle of Kurukshetra is our life-struggle. Always two groups are fighting for right and wrong. For the right group there is the Gita for rescue and Lord Krishna Himself tells us how and why to proceed in each and every step. Each one of the right thinking group is Arjuna and Lord Krishna is there, through the Gita, for each one of them.

The great warrior, Abhimanyu, son of Arjuna and Subhadra, could probably win the war alone by his own merits, but alas! He died after a great fight in the war. There were seven enemy kings waiting for him in a circular trap(Chakra-byuha). He knew how to enter but did not know how to win in that situation(Encircled by all seven enemy kings and jointly fighting against him.) and how to come out.

The right -minded people are all like Abhimanyu, they are not scared to fight this life struggle, they try to win but fail because they do not know how to fight against seven strong enemies who jointly fight against each one of them. Yes, we are all Abhimanyus fighting against seven very strong enemies at all times and losing out the war because we do not know how to win over these enemies. These enemy kings, in our life struggle, are our Mind-the leader, Ego, Desire, Greed, Anger, Fascination and Malice. Only Lord Krishna can show us the way and rescue us when we become Arjuna first.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dadaji often said: "Live your life in such a way that people catch the contagion. The contagion of Truth,Harmony, and Love. None of us are so big that we can change the world. But a few seekers, a few fellow-travellers, a few pilgrims of the stars, who need to know a little of the way you have traversed, will be helped. That is enough. Your work is fulfilled."


Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

[sleeping jiva]

hey, thanks gdkumar

don't feel as unwanted out here. I'm very much pleased that you've returned here to enjoy your love for Krishna. I've also noticed that you added up a mahamantra under each of your posts! (as well as others did) well, done. Now you see that we all want to propagate this mantra -that makes us very close in this group. haribol :)

[ChiefCowpie]

Attached Image
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-30-1092485649.jpg

[ChiefCowpie]

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-30-1089284580.jpg


Gaur Nitai ki jaya!!!

[ChiefCowpie]

Here is Sri Gauranga

Attached Image
http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-30-1089292728.jpg

[sleeping jiva]

very nice! looks like we all like pictures

[ChiefCowpie]

yea pictures!!!


Sad Bhuja

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-1-1062564254.jpg

[ChiefCowpie]

http://www.in2-mec.com/DivineCouple.html

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear ChiefCowpie,

Thank you for all those fascinatingly beautiful photographs. Particularly the pictures of Gaur-Nitai and of the three-in-one(Rama-Krishna-Chaitanya) are entrancing. Photographs have such effects, only if we could see them just for once what would happen !

Thank you again.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Dear SleepingJiva,

Thank you for your kind post.

Whether we take Lord Krishna's name or not, I suppose, nobody -even the tiniest of the tiny insects - is unwanted here or anywhere on this earth. After all, it is His will that all of us are here in this mundane realities to take part in His Lila.

Yes, now the Mahamantra, on its own will, has found its way in my posts. But it is best kept in the special niche of your heart's altar. This Mahamantra is the seed of Mahaprem.


Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Wow...such a wonderful collection of posts and stories and pictures...and repetitions of the mahamantra that have collect here since I was here last. Sorry that I don't have anything to share with you all...tomorrow is my last day of Band Camp though (aka the intense week of marching band practice) so aftert that I should be home...then I will definetely share one of the many lovely things that my dear friend Priitaa Devi Dasi sends me... http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif But thank you all (gdkumar, sleepingjiva, chiefcowpie, blackbillblake, and krishnadasa) for brightening my tiring day...I'm going to sleep now...but hopefully I'll be able to share my stories again soon. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif Haribol!

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare!!!! http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[ChiefCowpie]

Hare Krishna!

Dear ChiefCowpie,

Thank you for all those fascinatingly beautiful photographs. Particularly the pictures of Gaur-Nitai and of the three-in-one(Rama-Krishna-Chaitanya) are entrancing. Photographs have such effects, only if we could see them just for once what would happen !

Thank you again.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.
the pleasure is mine... may we all be Radha dasis

[sleeping jiva]

what is Radha dasis? thanks

[gdkumar]

Hare Krishna!

Most difficult thing can be made easy.

While chanting or doing any other type of sadhana the biggest problem that we face is distraction. Distraction is caused by all heavy-weight enemies. Under the leadership of our mind(King Dhritarashtra) these enemies are Desire,Greed,Anger,Ego,Fascination, Malice, etc. These enemies constantly try to distract our mind and our mind tends to become their servant. It is the most difficult thing to get rid of these enemies. They always defeat us. We need to pray for this to the Lord and no matter how many times we get distracted, we should go back to our sadhana of chanting, etc.

It is so difficult to remove or reduce desire,greed,anger,ego,malice, etc. but it is very simple and easy to increase them by many times. What we can do is we can leave them as it is or increase them and then change their heads towards our beloved Lord Krishna. Like the following:

Desire : Let there be desire but change the head. Let all our desire be only for His Lotus Feet.
Greed : Let all our greed be there only for His Lotus Feet.
Anger : Let all our anger be there for still being so much far from His Lotus Feet.
Ego : Let all our ego be there for being servant to His Lotus Feet.
Fascination : Let all our fascination be there for His Lotus Feet.
Malice : Let all our malice be there that somebody has already got it and we are still unable to be at His Lotus Feet. Let the thought be we also must do it and for that let anything happen to us.

If we can think and pray like this it very soon does wonders. Chanting becomes almost unbroken and automatically continues like flow of oil. A time soon comes when chanting is clearly heard coming from our heart even when we are not actually chanting.


Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

[sleeping jiva]

we should follow four regulative principles, thus we can be freed from all anger, hatred, egotism and material thinking.

no meat eating
no illicit sex
no hazard
no intoxication

otherwise we make offenses to the Lotus feet of Lord Krishna, when we chant. How can we become freed from these bad habits? by chanting :)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

As promised...my contributions:

In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.

PURPORT

Activity in Krsna consciousness, or acting for the benefit of Krsna without expectation of sense gratification, is the highest transcendental quality of work. Even a small beginning of such activity finds no impediment, nor can that small beginning be lost at any stage. Any work begun on the material plane has to be completed, otherwise the whole attempt becomes a failure. But any work begun in Krsna consciousness has a permanent effect, even though not finished. The performer of such work is therefore not at a loss even if his work in Krsna consciousness is incomplete. One percent done in Krsna consciousness bears permanent results, so that the next beginning is from the point of two percent; whereas, in material activity, without a hundred percent success, there is no profit.

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada... Bhagavad-gita 2.40 (purport)

The following is thanks to my friend Prtha Deva Dasi:
"Srila Prabhupada Said”- by Sruti Kirti das


March 1973, Camp: ISKCON Mayapur

This was my first trip to Mayapur with Srila Prabhupada. It was
before the guest house was built. The facilities where he stayed were
very austere. Basically, it was the goshala, a thatched hut. It had
been prepared for his stay. Srila Prabhupada stayed in one room and
the rest of us stayed on the other side of a partition.

I had never seen so many mosquitoes in my life. It was so bad that by
the time I had the net over his bed there were already mosquitoes
inside the net. One night, after we both climbed under the net I was
massaging his legs. I said, "There are so many mosquitoes. Should I
kill them, Srila Prabhupada?" He said, "Yes! They are attacking.
According to Sastra, if one is being attacked, you have the right to
defend yourself. And, they are attacking." So, I was massaging and
watching. Whenever I saw one in the air I would raise my hands and
clap them together. Sometimes I would gently smack Srila Prabhupada's
body as one landed on his head or back. It was the most unusual
service I had ever done but I enjoyed it immensely. I never
considered my self much of a warrior but this enemy was no match for
me. I had finally been given a service I was good at, killing
insects. Srila Prabhupada was so very kind.

He also had the best description of these pesky insects. One morning
he rang his bell very early. I walked into his room very slowly still
half asleep. He looked at me with a touch of anger and said, "Some
mosquito, last night, he was cutting my forehead. He created so much
disturbance. He made it difficult for me to do my translating work."
It was incredible. No matter what was going on Srila Prabhupada
always related it to Krishna and his service. It was never about
bodily inconvenience. He would only complain about something
interfering with his service. Of course for the two years I was with
him that is all I saw, Srila Prabhupada engaged in service to his
guru maharaja and Srila Prabhupada in the state of bliss. This always
went on simultaneously.

It was very chilly there in the evening but Srila Prabhupada didn't
complain about it. He did complain about the unnecessary talk that
would go on amongst his disciples. Since we were all staying in the
same room any talking that was going on could be heard by him. He
said, "Tell them to be quiet. All this talk is not good. Simply they
are gossiping. Tell them to stop."

This was not easy for me to do because these devotees were usually my
senior godbrothers. I would tell them that Prabhupada asked for
quiet. This same scenario occurred here months later when he stayed
at the guest house. Mayapura was such a quiet place in '72-73 that
any talking could be heard by Srila Prabhupada quite well. Whenever
Srila Prabhupada was at a temple many of his disciples would come
together. This was a perfect situation for devotees to exchange
stories about this person and that person, etc. etc. Srila Prabhupada
said, "Why must everything deteriorate into this idle talk, idle
discussion. This is wasting time, destroying Krishna Consciousness."

I always watered it down before telling it to my godbrothers. I just
didn't have the nerve to tell it as he told me. I never heard him
mention it to anyone when they were in his room but he sure did let
me know about it.

This was a quality of Srila Prabhupada's. He was very careful not to
discourage anyone through criticism. If they were capable of dealing
with it he would chastise. Otherwise he was the greatest
transcendental diplomat there ever was. His only goal was to infect
as many people as possible with love of Krishna and if you had the
chance of associating with him personally then there was a strong
possibility of becoming deeply attached to him no matter how hard you
fight it.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

July 7-8, 1973,
London Rathayatra Festival

The second half of yesterday's story about the katchori took place in
Calcutta during the first week of July. This is significant because
after this episode Srila Prabhupada was deciding where he would
travel to next. This was always an exciting adventure. On this
occasion the senior devotees were suggesting that perhaps Srila
Prabhupada should go to Hawaii or Los Angeles so that he could rest.
However, there was an invitation from the devotees in London to
attend the Ratha Yatra festival.

Srila Prabhupada was very expert in engaging his disciples so that
they could develop their love and attachment for him. The process of
deciding where to travel occurred over and over again, wherever Srila
Prabhupada was staying. He would allow his disciples to suggest
places and reasons why he should go there. Hawaii was mentioned often
because of the nice weather and good fruit. He would listen to his
disciple's opinions and then do whatever he wanted. It was a great
deal of fun, once I became acquainted with the process.

Sometimes, he would travel to cities all over the world without ever
leaving his sitting room. The most important thing for his secretary
to know was that until he said, "send a telegram" or "tell them to
send us tickets" it was only a suggestion by Srila Prabhupada. It
kept his disciples around the world busy painting temples blue and
white as these were considered Srila Prabhupada's favorite colors.
I'm not sure, but sometimes I think Srila Prabhupada considered all
temples outside of India had the fragrance of an M.A.B. paint store.

On this occasion he said to me, "Srutakirti, what do you think?
Should I go to London and attend the Ratha Yatra festival or should I
go to Hawaii and rest." I had been with Srila Prabhupada for almost
one year and I knew he would do whatever he wanted. I was thrilled
that he would even ask for my opinion. Just that one acknowledgment
by him was enough to last for my entire life. I responded
quickly, "Srila Prabhupada, if you go to the Ratha Yatra festival in
London so many people will be benefited by you association." He
smiled broadly and said, "Yes, I think your observation is correct."
After listening to everyone Srila Prabhupada said, "Thank you for the
advice. I am going to London for the Ratha Yatra."

It was an amazing festival. My perspective was limited, since I
stayed by Srila Prabhupada's side but it was filled with adventure.
Srila Prabhupada was very enthusiastic. His Vyasasana was available
on the Ratha cart but he decided to walk with the devotees. Srila
Prabhupada was walking in front of the cart clapping his hands to the
beat of the kirtan. He would raise his hands in the air encouraging
everyone to dance. He looked like the supreme puppeteer. As he raised
his hands everyone would leap into the air in ecstasy. It didn't
require any purification. If you were near him, you were in bliss.
Except for the bobbies (policemen). They were looking for someone in
charge. They wanted to calm everyone down. They were keen enough to
realize that if they could control Srila Prabhupada, they could
control the "unruly" crowd.

Somehow or other they thought I was an 'associate' of Your Divine
Grace. One of the bobbies said, "You'll have to tell your leader to
sit down. He's causing too much of a disturbance. Everyone is
becoming wild and we can't control the crowd." I said, "All right"
and then did nothing. It was apparent that Srila Prabhupada was in
charge of this festival. I had no idea who was attending but Srila
Prabhupada was visibly ecstatic. They approached me again, more
firmly, saying, "You must tell him. He'll have to sit down." Again I
agreed. With fear of reprisal I tapped Srila Prabhupada on his
shoulder and said, "Prabhupada, the policemen, they want you to sit
down. They say that you are creating havoc here in the parade." Srila
Prabhupada looked through me for a brief moment. He quickly turned
away with his arms still raised in the air. Smilingly majestically,
he continued walking with a bounce in his step. He allowed everyone
present to enter into his world of bliss. He never stopped. He walked
the length of the parade. The bobbies gave up their attack. They were
no match for the pure devotee and the Lord of the Universe.

Srila Prabhupada, when I said that so many people would be benefited
by your association, I had no idea of the plans you had. You were an
ocean of mercy, that was being freely given to everyone attending.
Please forgive me for tapping you on your shoulder that day. Due to
my dullness I attempted to distract you from your mission. Thank you
for ignoring my countless shortcomings.
----------

"Therefore the origin of lust is also in the Supreme. If, therefore,
lust is transformed into love for the Supreme, or transformed into
Krishna Consciousness – or, in other words, desiring everything for
Krishna – then both lust and wrath can be spiritualized. Hanuman, the
great servator of Lord Rama, engaged his wrath upon his enemies for
the satisfaction of the Lord." BG 3.37 P

"The pure devotees hear from the authorities and chant, sing and
write of the glories of the Lord. Mahamuni Vyasadevia heard from
Narada, and then he chanted in *WRITING*; Sukadeva Gosvami studied
from his father, and he described it to Pariksit; that is the way of
Srimad-Bhagavatam." (Btwm. 1.13.10)

"Love of Godhead is dormant in every living entity, and the entire
process of devotional service unto the Lord is meant for awakening
this dormant, eternal love of Godhead." (Btwm. 3.2.20)

"So we want accommodations for at least forty men and women which
will constitute the Sankirtana Party." SPL to Sriman Radharama
Sharanji 70-6-25
Bhe spiritual sky there are innumerable planets, sanatana planets,
eternal planets, which are never destroyed, annihilated. But of all
those spiritual planets there is one planet, the original planet,
which is called Goloka Vrndavana. So these informations are there in
the Bhagavad-gita and we are given the opportunity for leaving this
material world and get our eternal life in the eternal kingdom." BG
Intro

"But the spiritual world, which is beyond this material sky, paras
tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo [Bg. 8.20], but that avyakta, that nonmanifested
spiritual sky, is the paramam gatim, that is, one should desire, one
should hanker after reaching that supreme kingdom." BG Intro


"Simply by chanting the holy name of Krsna, one is relieved from all
the reactions of a sinful life. One can complete the nine processes
of devotional service simply by chanting the holy name." -- Sri
Caitanya Caritamrita, Madhya 15.107

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

http://www.webcom.com/~ara/col/art/swing.jpg

I think this picture is really beautiful...

[ChiefCowpie]

what is Radha dasis? thanksRadha dasi would be an assistant of Srimanti Radharani

http://faculty.weber.edu/bdavis/pluralism/P1010241.JPG

Srimati Radharhani would be the person to the right of the black person playing the flute

Jaya Radhe!!!!!!

[ChiefCowpie]

http://www.webcom.com/~ara/col/art/swing.jpg

I think this picture is really beautiful...
here Srimati Radharhani is on the left of her flute playing lover...sometimes on the right, sometimes on the left, you never know what side she is going to be on

[ChiefCowpie]

http://www.gaudiyadiscussions.com/uploads/post-30-1089454066.jpg
beauty is its own self evident Trtuh

[BlackBillBlake]

From ‘The Teachings of Lord Chaitanya’



Chapter 30: The Transcendental Pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa



Although Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, embodies all superexcellence and beauty, when He is amongst the damsels of Vraja, He is known as Gopījanavallabha. The devotees cannot relish the beauty of the Supreme Lord more than the damsels of Vraja. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.33.7) it is confirmed that although Kṛṣṇa, the son of Devakī, is the last word in superexcellence and beauty, when He is amongst the gopīs it appears that He is a sublime jewel set amongst divine golden craftsmanship. Although Lord Caitanya accepted this as the highest realization of the Supreme Lord as conjugal lover, He nonetheless requested Rāmānanda Rāya to proceed further.



Upon hearing this request, Rāmānanda Rāya remarked that this was the first time that he had been asked to go further than the gopīs in an attempt to understand Kṛṣṇa. There is certainly transcendental intimacy between the damsels of Vraja and Kṛṣṇa, Rāmānanda pointed out, but out of all the relationships, the relationship between Rādhārāṇī and Kṛṣṇa in conjugal love is the most perfect. No common man can understand the ecstasy of transcendental love between Rādhārāṇī and Kṛṣṇa, nor can he understand the transcendental flavor of the transcendental love between Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs. Yet if one tries to follow in the footsteps of the gopīs, he may become situated in the highest stage of transcendental love. Thus one who wants to be elevated to the transcendental stage of perfection should follow in the footsteps of the damsels of Vraja as an assistant maidservant of the gopīs.



Lord Caitanya exhibited the mode of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī when She was contacted from Dvārakā by Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Such transcendental love is not possible for any common man; therefore one should not imitate the highest perfectional stage exhibited by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. If, however, one desires to be in that association, he may follow in the footsteps of the gopīs. In the Padma Purāṇa it is stated that just as Rādhārāṇī is dear to Kṛṣṇa, similarly the kuṇḍa known as Rādhākuṇḍa is also very dear to Him. Rādhārāṇī is the only gopī who is dearer to Kṛṣṇa than ail the other gopīs. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.30.28) it is also stated that Rādhārāṇī and the gopīs render the highest perfectional loving service to the Lord and that the Lord is so pleased with them that He does not wish to leave the company of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī.

Srila Prabhupada.

[sleeping jiva]

thanks Chief for your explanation, I appreciate it, now I understand.


this is what occured to me yesterday, think about it:


People are mad, they're crazy after material enjoyment. When u see them as they truly are- crazy, what will u do to keep your sanity? You will chant this, my friend:

[BlackBillBlake]

Dear Sleeping Jiva - you are right, people are crazy - and they see nothing but the world of the senses. It is very easy to slip into having a negative attitude towards such people. But thats not right. We should try to have compassion, even if this isn't easy.

It is out of compassion that Gauranga and others have come to give us the Maha Mantra.
In the past, as I've mentioned before, I had some association with devotees of Jayatirtha - I was struck by the negative attitude some of them had towards ordinary people - it is all too easy to categorize them as 'demons', esp. those who eat meat. But they are in ignorance - they can't be condemmned out of hand. It is good to remember that it is only through the Mercy of God that we are not in a similar position.

[sleeping jiva]

definetely. sometimes u just can't be compassionate, they won't allow you :):). they wanna be cheated. I know what you mean by "ït's easy to slip into negative attitude". from a certian point, I began to realizing that the bad you see in others is your own bad. But, man, in a position I'm in right now with no clear love for Krishna, this is not possible to control. Sometimes you're just angry. It's like when supress it, it becomes bigger. You are not the compassionate, it's Krishna. U can be compassionate even when you say : "this people are crazy, don't talk to them" to some devotee, so u'll protect him from the material disease. That is compassion. it's not that, ok for the sake of material comfort, peace or good vibe I'll shut up and let him do what he does. What do u think? This is hard, becuz maya want you to be in material comfort. Sometimes even it's better to shut up yourself, not to loose your own devotional attitude. The materialistic people are in ignorance, if you're negative about this and u try to change it it's positive. Devotees may seem like negative, for example Prabhupada, but he's only non-compromising, that's all. If u advocate Krishna, u talk about him and you're not afraid to explain it to non-devotees, u can't be nothing, but positive.
The first sign of facism is that it needs the enemy, otherwise the facistic people has no value, the enemy gives it. This is present in our society on every corner. We are good, becuz we create our contraparts. This is the dualism of our bodies. We see good and evil, becuz we falsly identify with our bodies. As soon as we are here, we are conditioned. It's better to use this dualism in Krishna's service, because only that way, we can reach the absolute platfrom with no good and evil -just Krishna within every living soul. But I'm not there, I know that. If I'm not there, I'm in the clutches of this dualism, I use it in service to Krishna. U don't have to make the people guilty, this is very wrong philosophy, you should show them better food than meat, not criticizing them. Krishna consciousness is the greatest thing in the world, u should be like a commercial, show them all the good things it brings.

[jailmate]

Wake up and get real, HAIR

[sleeping jiva]

hi, jailmate. you're certinaly attracted to Krishna. You're always welcome. Your minimalistic posts make me laugh, I laugh about myself, cuz I see how limited I am.

[jailmate]

hi, jailmate. you're certinaly attracted to Krishna. You're always welcome. Your minimalistic posts make me laugh, I laugh about myself, cuz I see how limited I am.

and your bald head, fool.

[jesuswasamonkey]

Yay! I'm crazy 'cuz I don't call the head-honcho god Krishna!

Praise Ortiz Praise Ortiz
Ortiz Ortiz Praise Praise
Praise Ralph Praise Ralph
Ralph Ralph Praise Praise!

Sorry kids, I'm not trying to offend, but to call everybody who walks a different path than you crazy is crazy in and of itself. All paths end up in the same place eventually, at the peak of the beautiful mountain of the gods, except for the path of hate, conflict and seperatism, that path is going the opposite direction, down the deep dark valley of the soul.

[jailmate]

definetely. sometimes u just can't be compassionate, they won't allow you :):). they wanna be cheated. I know what you mean by "ït's easy to slip into negative attitude". from a certian point, I began to realizing that the bad you see in others is your own bad. But, man, in a position I'm in right now with no clear love for Krishna, this is not possible to control. Sometimes you're just angry. It's like when supress it, it becomes bigger. You are not the compassionate, it's Krishna. U can be compassionate even when you say : "this people are crazy, don't talk to them" to some devotee, so u'll protect him from the material disease. That is compassion. it's not that, ok for the sake of material comfort, peace or good vibe I'll shut up and let him do what he does. What do u think? This is hard, becuz maya want you to be in material comfort. Sometimes even it's better to shut up yourself, not to loose your own devotional attitude. The materialistic people are in ignorance, if you're negative about this and u try to change it it's positive. Devotees may seem like negative, for example Prabhupada, but he's only non-compromising, that's all. If u advocate Krishna, u talk about him and you're not afraid to explain it to non-devotees, u can't be nothing, but positive.
The first sign of facism is that it needs the enemy, otherwise the facistic people has no value, the enemy gives it. This is present in our society on every corner. We are good, becuz we create our contraparts. This is the dualism of our bodies. We see good and evil, becuz we falsly identify with our bodies. As soon as we are here, we are conditioned. It's better to use this dualism in Krishna's service, because only that way, we can reach the absolute platfrom with no good and evil -just Krishna within every living soul. But I'm not there, I know that. If I'm not there, I'm in the clutches of this dualism, I use it in service to Krishna. U don't have to make the people guilty, this is very wrong philosophy, you should show them better food than meat, not criticizing them. Krishna consciousness is the greatest thing in the world, u should be like a commercial, show them all the good things it brings.

look here, then quit Krishnah and grov Hair

[Orsino2]

nithing more powerful den dah hairz.

[BlackBillBlake]

Yay! I'm crazy 'cuz I don't call the head-honcho god Krishna!

Praise Ortiz Praise Ortiz
Ortiz Ortiz Praise Praise
Praise Ralph Praise Ralph
Ralph Ralph Praise Praise!

Sorry kids, I'm not trying to offend, but to call everybody who walks a different path than you crazy is crazy in and of itself. All paths end up in the same place eventually, at the peak of the beautiful mountain of the gods, except for the path of hate, conflict and seperatism, that path is going the opposite direction, down the deep dark valley of the soul.
We don't say everyone else is crazy - only those who have no spiritual path. Srila Prabhupada urged everyone to simply repeat the name of God - if you believe in Jesus, for example, you can repeat ' Lord Jesus Chirst Son of God have mercy' as was and is the orthodox practice. Roman Catholics have something similar with the saying of the Holy Rosary.
If you think this is a sane world we live in, look again. People are controlled by greed, prejudice, lust, ignorance and often malice. If they can become peaceful and positive through the Hare Krishna maha mantra, whats wrong with that?

[BlackBillBlake]

definetely. sometimes u just can't be compassionate, they won't allow you :):). they wanna be cheated. I know what you mean by "ït's easy to slip into negative attitude". from a certian point, I began to realizing that the bad you see in others is your own bad. But, man, in a position I'm in right now with no clear love for Krishna, this is not possible to control. Sometimes you're just angry. It's like when supress it, it becomes bigger. You are not the compassionate, it's Krishna. U can be compassionate even when you say : "this people are crazy, don't talk to them" to some devotee, so u'll protect him from the material disease. That is compassion. it's not that, ok for the sake of material comfort, peace or good vibe I'll shut up and let him do what he does. What do u think? This is hard, becuz maya want you to be in material comfort. Sometimes even it's better to shut up yourself, not to loose your own devotional attitude. The materialistic people are in ignorance, if you're negative about this and u try to change it it's positive. Devotees may seem like negative, for example Prabhupada, but he's only non-compromising, that's all. If u advocate Krishna, u talk about him and you're not afraid to explain it to non-devotees, u can't be nothing, but positive.
The first sign of facism is that it needs the enemy, otherwise the facistic people has no value, the enemy gives it. This is present in our society on every corner. We are good, becuz we create our contraparts. This is the dualism of our bodies. We see good and evil, becuz we falsly identify with our bodies. As soon as we are here, we are conditioned. It's better to use this dualism in Krishna's service, because only that way, we can reach the absolute platfrom with no good and evil -just Krishna within every living soul. But I'm not there, I know that. If I'm not there, I'm in the clutches of this dualism, I use it in service to Krishna. U don't have to make the people guilty, this is very wrong philosophy, you should show them better food than meat, not criticizing them. Krishna consciousness is the greatest thing in the world, u should be like a commercial, show them all the good things it brings.
:) Dear Jiva - I know that it isn't easy to get the balance right here. On one hand, as you say, many people are closed to any idea of Krishna, and if you associate too closely with them, or with anyone who is non-spiritually minded, there is the risk that they'll drag you down to their level, or at least lead to a loss of consciousness. If a person is trying to cultivate love of Krishna, then that kind of association can be quite a trial!
It's no use to try to explain to those who don't want to listen - they are materielly engrossed. Krishna gives them all the time in the world to continue like this, life after life, until they one day recieve the Mercy of some pure devotee and turn back towards God. Its like Jesus parable of the sower, where some of the seed falls on rocky ground and just dies, some falls in with the weeds and gets choked, and some on good ground, where it grows to fullness.
It's partly because of this problem, and also to provide for association among devotees that Srila Prabhupada founded ISKCON in the west. It is a great shame that the pretender 'gurus' have poluted His organization. There are other devotees around though, and maybe you should try to have some association with them. :)
Devotees will enter into association with non-devotees to spread the message of Krishna Consciousness. Just recently, I was in the nearby town when I was approached in the street by a devotee asking for a donation and offering me a book by Sri Narayan Maharaja. I stopped to talk for some time, and he explained that he'd been there for two hours and hadn't had any success. Now he'd actually found someone who is interested in Krishna, he felt it had been worth while, and he'd pack up and move on to somewhere else! I was impressed, as I always am when I see devotees doing book distribution in the streets. The book, by the way, was 'The Butter Thief', a retelling by Narayan Maharaja of some stories of Krishna'a childhood pastimes.
Myself, I hate going into town - I really don't like the whole atmosphere.
It's often better to avoid conflict where one can.
As for facists, Srila Prabhupada said 'it is MAYA who is the facist'!

[jesuswasamonkey]

In my opinion, hatred(dislike, exclusion, shunning, etcetera) of all that is not like you is a very unhealthy attitude, and it is in fact the very foundation of fascism.

What did the Nazis want?

They wanted to make the whole world to be like them.

An intricately woven web is a far more beautiful thing than a single thick thread.

[BlackBillBlake]

In my opinion, hatred(dislike, exclusion, shunning, etcetera) of all that is not like you is a very unhealthy attitude, and it is in fact the very foundation of fascism.

What did the Nazis want?

They wanted to make the whole world to be like them.

An intricately woven web is a far more beautiful thing than a single thick thread.
Hate is certainly bad. However, where 'exclusion' is concerned, it is in fact practiced by virtually everyone. I don't want to associate for example with violent people who drink etc. I don't want to associate with right-wing racists - and doubtless many others. That doesn't make me a facist.
No one is excluded - Krishna Consciousness is open to all. Many exclude themselves.
The Nazi's wanted to dominate the world through violence, and to destroy certain racial groups, establishing themselves as the 'master race'. Nobody I have met who is into Krishna has any such agenda.
The world may do as it pleases - I for one don't want everyone to be the same. But look around - in today's 'society' it seems thay are all very alike! They wear clothes made by the same companies in a narrow range of 'fashions', they watch the same tv shows, drive the same cars - crave the same old pleasures, and line up in nice neat rows to be shot when called upon by 'their nation'!
Everyone is free to follow whatever spiritual path they like. If one wishes to follow Krishna Consciousness, then association of devotees is quite naturally recommended. And whatever one believes or thinks, hardly anyone wants to be around people that are hostile to that all the time. Thats pretty obvious.

[sleeping jiva]

jesus: yes, when u read about Krishna consciousness from Prabhupada, he doesn't say, hey let's turn everybody into Krishna by force, or let's make it a state law, no. It is said that one out of million understands this science, you yurself has no knowledge about this teachings you thought that we don't accept other Gods. It is said that this world can't be turned in devotees only. We are not naive. We are saying, hey, this is real happiness, come with us, some hear some not, it is not our principle to have lot of followers, no this would be materialistic approach. I got million devotees, therefore it is the proof of my teaching. lol. It exists. Religion is like that. But our primal task is to serve Krishna, not materialistic dream. I believe there's no hatred in me against materialistic people. Like Prabhupada, when u listen to his recordings, he laughs, but not mockingly with compassion. He understands their ignorance.

haribol!

jailmate: keep your beautiful hair growing

[sleeping jiva]

BBB: right on! good point about the lost of individualism in todays' society. Yeah, I feel that myself. that's why Krishna consciousness is so interesting for me. I don't feel I'm just a number. I believe I'm an original human being .
Krishna consciousness is about your sincerity, you may be living in a temple, you may even propagate the message, you may shave your head, wear orange robes, but as soon as u don't enjoy it, if you don't experience the feeling of love, it's not much different from materialism.

[jailmate]

In my opinion, hatred(dislike, exclusion, shunning, etcetera) of all that is not like you is a very unhealthy attitude, and it is in fact the very foundation of fascism.

What did the Nazis want?

They wanted to make the whole world to be like them.

An intricately woven web is a far more beautiful thing than a single thick thread.

Duh, ah, what duzz everyone want?

H A I R

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I've read this thread and I can see where jesusisamonkey is coming from...but I have to agree with BBB in the fact that aren't we already the same in the fact that we are mostly all equally brainwashed by our society to be so? Is it not better to be the same and serve God? The biggest thing that I like about Vaisnavism is that we know that all monotheistic religions are trying, in their own way, to serve God (regardless of whatever name He is called by)...and if you are doing that, the best you can, then I don't think any one group is anymore right. The problem is, in the Catholic church and in ISKCON among others, is the people who are falsly trying to make material gains on other's search for spirituality....also my other problem is those that think that only one way is the right way...I don't think so...

But think what you may and worship as you may...as long as you are trying as best you can to love God and try and serve Him...then its good...chanting is good, I think, because by being open to chanting the names of the Lord, you are opening your heart and willingly wanting to know more...it doesn't matter what you call him, as long as you do...

And that is the end of my constant point that I always bring up...and I am done...and I hope it was on topic enough...if not...sorry there...

[BlackBillBlake]

BBB: right on! good point about the lost of individualism in todays' society. Yeah, I feel that myself. that's why Krishna consciousness is so interesting for me. I don't feel I'm just a number. I believe I'm an original human being .
Krishna consciousness is about your sincerity, you may be living in a temple, you may even propagate the message, you may shave your head, wear orange robes, but as soon as u don't enjoy it, if you don't experience the feeling of love, it's not much different from materialism.
Thats it Jiva - its only when we embrace the spiritual path that we can be who we really are!

[jesuswasamonkey]

jesus: yes, when u read about Krishna consciousness from Prabhupada, he doesn't say, hey let's turn everybody into Krishna by force, or let's make it a state law, no. It is said that one out of million understands this science, you yurself has no knowledge about this teachings you thought that we don't accept other Gods. It is said that this world can't be turned in devotees only. We are not naive. We are saying, hey, this is real happiness, come with us, some hear some not, it is not our principle to have lot of followers, no this would be materialistic approach. I got million devotees, therefore it is the proof of my teaching. lol. It exists. Religion is like that. But our primal task is to serve Krishna, not materialistic dream. I believe there's no hatred in me against materialistic people. Like Prabhupada, when u listen to his recordings, he laughs, but not mockingly with compassion. He understands their ignorance.

haribol!

jailmate: keep your beautiful hair growing
Please do not talk down to me, I am not talking down to you. I know that Hare Krishnas are allowed to worship whatever gods they choose, and I know that you don't use force or violence to enforce your beliefs. Even Naziism started with a peaceful political movement. Whenever you deem yourself "better" than others, you must be very careful lest you fall into the trap of hatred, exclusion, and percieved superiority.

All I am saying is that you should accept all the people on this planet as brothers and sisters, regardless of their ideology. If you truly have faith, then you have no reason to fear being misled.

As for "normal" people excluding others, some of the more emotionally unbalanced ones will, but from my own experience, most people are perfectly happy to accept you as a human being regardless of the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the music you listen to, or even your religion or spiritual beliefs. A lot of people just "go with the flow" in areas they don't consider to be vitally important simply because they would rather spend their energies elsewhere.

Tell me, which is more "Maya", a man who wears "normal" clothes because he isn't really fashion-concious, or a man who judges all who wear "normal" clothes to be spiritually bankrupt?

As I said earlier, you can believe what you want, but when you practice exclusion you do in fact harm others. Emotional ties between human beings are real, and it is a very sad thing when those vital ties are broken by a difference in beliefs.

[jailmate]

Uhh kan believe this seeker uv duh truth:
It all started when it all iz, waz, willbe.
then it luuked like a vibratin hair,
one hair thingy created one space,
then it moved in relation 2 dat space
and created time, then it became tangled
when Einstein tried 2 comb it out only it got
denser and dreaded into the reality we(me?)
see within and without.
In wit duh Dreadz and out wit duh HareHare

[jesuswasamonkey]

Haha, Jailmate.

I'm not sure if you're insane, wise, or just trying to be funny.

Perhaps all three.

Peace bro, keep growin' that hair.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Please do not talk down to me, I am not talking down to you. I know that Hare Krishnas are allowed to worship whatever gods they choose, and I know that you don't use force or violence to enforce your beliefs. Even Naziism started with a peaceful political movement. Whenever you deem yourself "better" than others, you must be very careful lest you fall into the trap of hatred, exclusion, and percieved superiority.

All I am saying is that you should accept all the people on this planet as brothers and sisters, regardless of their ideology. If you truly have faith, then you have no reason to fear being misled.

As for "normal" people excluding others, some of the more emotionally unbalanced ones will, but from my own experience, most people are perfectly happy to accept you as a human being regardless of the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the music you listen to, or even your religion or spiritual beliefs. A lot of people just "go with the flow" in areas they don't consider to be vitally important simply because they would rather spend their energies elsewhere.

Tell me, which is more "Maya", a man who wears "normal" clothes because he isn't really fashion-concious, or a man who judges all who wear "normal" clothes to be spiritually bankrupt?

As I said earlier, you can believe what you want, but when you practice exclusion you do in fact harm others. Emotional ties between human beings are real, and it is a very sad thing when those vital ties are broken by a difference in beliefs.

But we aren't any better than anyone else...we're all just trying to do the best we can...we're all trying to do the best that we can...for the people here in this thread...the best that we can is trying to serve God...and to exclude others and be unkind wouldn't be right...in fact I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that that would be maya...

I just think that we need to be a bit more aware of the bigger picture...the minor things can be different...the most likely will be... To me, the bigger picture is that we are part and parcle of God (call Him Krishna, Allah, Jahova, Rama, Vishnu, whatever you like) and that we just need to do the best we can to be decent human being and treat others with love and kindness and what have you.....chanting helps me be closer to Him and serve Him and find happiness...but it might not be the way of other's...and that's ok...

[BlackBillBlake]

Please do not talk down to me, I am not talking down to you. I know that Hare Krishnas are allowed to worship whatever gods they choose, and I know that you don't use force or violence to enforce your beliefs. Even Naziism started with a peaceful political movement. Whenever you deem yourself "better" than others, you must be very careful lest you fall into the trap of hatred, exclusion, and percieved superiority.

All I am saying is that you should accept all the people on this planet as brothers and sisters, regardless of their ideology. If you truly have faith, then you have no reason to fear being misled.

As for "normal" people excluding others, some of the more emotionally unbalanced ones will, but from my own experience, most people are perfectly happy to accept you as a human being regardless of the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the music you listen to, or even your religion or spiritual beliefs. A lot of people just "go with the flow" in areas they don't consider to be vitally important simply because they would rather spend their energies elsewhere.

Tell me, which is more "Maya", a man who wears "normal" clothes because he isn't really fashion-concious, or a man who judges all who wear "normal" clothes to be spiritually bankrupt?

As I said earlier, you can believe what you want, but when you practice exclusion you do in fact harm others. Emotional ties between human beings are real, and it is a very sad thing when those vital ties are broken by a difference in beliefs.

Krishna Consciousness is a path of love. Everyone is a brother or sister, since all are part of Krishna.
NAZI's never started with a peaceful political movement. Read 'Mien Kampf' if you don't believe me. And Hitler's S.A. brownshirts - were they peaceful? And what is it you see in Krishna Consciousness that has any resemblance?

What you say about 'normal' people accepting all association is not right. I am sure everyone regards certain others as not very desirable company. You criricize nazi's - do you want to spend your time with them? I doubt it. Similarly, one with no interest in films, for example, is not likely to want to hang out with film buffs.

Many people 'go with the flow' because they simply see no other path to be pursued. And often, the flow leads them precisely nowhere.

I also think you are under some illusion as regards the way devotees dress. Many continue to wear ordinary western clothes, and don't shave the head - as George Harrison said 'plainclothes devotees'. And no one is judging anyone 'spiritually bankrupt' because of the way they dress. In an exteme case - eg. a person clad in expensive furs, one would be right perhaps to feel this was offensive. But look at the time, money and rescources wasted on fashion, which ultimatly is only vanity, and think about the third world.

Once again - nobody is excluded from Krishna Consciousness.Even those who think of Krishna in a negative way are following it to some degree!

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I also think you are under some illusion as regards the way devotees dress. Many continue to wear ordinary western clothes, and don't shave the head - as George Harrison said 'plainclothes devotees'. And no one is judging anyone 'spiritually bankrupt' because of the way they dress. In an exteme case - eg. a person clad in expensive furs, one would be right perhaps to feel this was offensive. But look at the time, money and rescources wasted on fashion, which ultimatly is only vanity, and think about the third world.
Oi...is that what he meant by "normal" clothes...? Why did I think he meant something else? Oh....ummm....Well...I do agree with BBB on that respect^...carry on all...lol

[BlackBillBlake]

Oi...is that what he meant by "normal" clothes...? Why did I think he meant something else? Oh....ummm....Well...I do agree with BBB on that respect^...carry on all...lol
I assume thats what was meant! no doubt I'll be corrected if I'm wrong:)

Thanks for your input.

Hari Om.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

http://www.webcom.com/~ara/col/books/BG/gita/bg11.jpg
The Lord descends whenever there is a decline in religious principles. Although there are many transcendental forms of the Lord, they are all one and the same Supreme Personality of Godhead (BG 4.7)

[ChiefCowpie]

nithing more powerful den dah hairz.Los Angeles, June 26, 1975


Prabhupada: So you have given up the Vaisnava-sadacara for business selling. So you can be dangerous for that.
Devotee (1): But we have also maintained the Vaisnava-sadacara. They didn't tell us...
Prabhupada: That's all right. You do that. But they do not see whether you are maintaining.
Devotee (1): But at the same time, when we were maintaining that, we had the same problems, is that, when we presented sociological applications of the philosophy, for instance, to arrange marriages in a reasonable way, that the women not be sent out on sankirtana to prostitute themselves to sell books, but be trained up to be wives, or that the brahmacaris in the temple, someone would sit and talk with them and see how many of them want to be married and try and arrange some type of training for them, knowing that most of them are going to become married, rather than just have no training and one day find oneself married, out on the street with no occupation or training.
Prabhupada: First of all, you are not trained up. You are sometimes becoming astrologer, sometimes this, sometimes that.
Devotee (1): It's true, because of my birth in this...
Prabhupada: So how they can follow you?
Devotee (2): We're not asking them to follow us. We're asking you Prabhupada, that these are some problems.
Prabhupada: My request is that first of all you adopt yourself the Vaisnava acara. Then you try to teach others. Otherwise you have no right.
Devotee (2): But we have done that for five years, and no one here listened to us at all.
Prabhupada: So why you are anxious to listen... You... Let them not listen. You do your own duty.
Devotee (2): We had no duty. They gave us nothing to do. They would not recognize our qualities, as we understand, even of, say Krsna consciousness.
Prabhupada: So what can I do?
Devotee (2): Well, you can make statements on certain of these things so that when they hear them, their ignorance will be dispelled.
Prabhupada: Then we have to hear both of you. We have to hear both you... There will be regular court, and we shall see.
Devotee (1): Not court, simply...
Prabhupada: No, no.
Devotee (2): That would be fine.
Devotee (1): Okay.
Prabhupada: Before me. You are saying something. They may say something else. So brothers together, we sit down together, and bring this...
Devotee (2): All right. But we have some, also, questions that don't require that. These are philosophical questions. For instance, in Krsna Book there is a statement that King Ugrasena had four billion personal servants. Now you have asked that we go and spread Krsna consciousness to the scientific community.
Prabhupada: So everyone is servant. What is the question of four billion? Krsna's servant...
Devotee (2): No, Ugrasena, King Ugrasena, that when he was on the planet, he had four billion personal servants.
Prabhupada: That's all right. He is always the master. He... The Krsna is the only master.
Devotee (2): Not Krsna. No. King Ugrasena, Prabhupada. Not Krsna. King Ugrasena. The statement is that King Ugrasena had four billion personal servants. Now, we have gone and tried to spread to the scientific community. And if we say to them, "There was a king whose name was Ugrasena. He had four billion personal servants," they laugh and say, "What did they do for toilets? What did they do for food? Where did they live?"
Prabhupada: So you want to preach this particular portion and no other portion?
Devotee (1): No. We want to... We want to know if the story has an allegorical meaning rather than a literal translation, or that King Ugrasena who was a man who lived five thousand years ago and had four billion bodyguards, or whether the stories within the Bhagavatam, apart from some of them being actual, are allegorical stories. Such as the story of Krsna and Balarama chopping off the the eighty-eight...
Prabhupada: All right. You can give up that portion. You can take other portion.
Devotee (2): We don't mean to give it up.
Devotee (1): We don't mean to give it up.
Devotee (2): We're saying how can we say to them...
Prabhupada: Anyone, anyone... Why you are going to preach that portion to a professor?
Devotee (1): No. When they read your books, they pose that question to us.
Devotee (2): They read it. They say to us.
Devotee (1): And unless we can answer that question...
Prabhupada: They ask to only you, but they never ask to us.
Revatinandana: They have. Sometimes they ask me.
Prabhupada: That's all right. Let them ask. But you can tell away that(?) but you don't repeat this thing. You can give up that portion. You read other portion.
Devotee (1): But then because so many things they have to accept on faith without knowing, it then weakens their faith as to what they should accept and why should they accept Krsna, who they can't see any more than King Ugrasena's four billion bodyguards.
Prabhupada: Don't accept. Don't accept.
Devotee (2): But we want them to accept. The point is, if we say to a scientific man, "There was four billion," and if our statement is wrong...
/Prabhupada: But our position is that if some portion we cannot understand, it is our incapability.
Devotee (2): That is all right. But since we are...
Prabhupada: That's all. Unless we have got this faith we cannot use these Puranas. In the Puranas there are many such statements.
Devotee (2): Yes, but we just want to understand.
Prabhupada: Therefore many people, they do not accept Puranas. So what can be done?
Devotee (2): We're just trying to understand it because we've never dealt with Puranas before. We have been your disciples. But when we present this to the scientific community, because you have said that if one word is wrong, the whole philosophy is wrong, so they will say to us...
Prabhupada: So let them take it and throw out, don't read it. That's all.
Devotee (2): But then they discredit the Bhagavad-gita. We don't like that when they discredit the Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Why? They don't believe. What is the use?
Devotee (2): Well, because we also want to know how did they have four billion personal servants just so that we'll be able to convince them and also...
Prabhupada: If a king has four billion servants, so it is not very astonishing. Why do you think that a king shall have only four servants?
Devotee (2): Well, there's only two billion people on the planet right now.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Devotee (2): So where did they all go?
Prabhupada: I say you don't believe, you don't take it. Why you are insisting on that point? If you don't believe, you don't take it. If you don't believe the whole book or the whole society, then who forbids you?
Devotee (2): We were hoping that there are some things which can be improved, because they have not been set up by you.
Prabhupada: No. You cannot improve. Whatever we are, we are.
Devotee (2): Why can we not improve it?
Prabhupada: No. There is no possibility.
Devotee (2): Then what is the use of action?
Prabhupada: Action, whatever action we can do by chanting Hare Krsna, that's all.
Devotee (2): But we also have to make varnasrama society or farms or businesses.
Prabhupada: That, when we shall do, we shall see to it.
Devotee (2): But we are doing it. We are.
Devotee (1): We are doing it now, and that's the question...
Prabhupada: So do it in your own way.
Devotee (2): We don't want to. We want to do everything Krsna's way.
Prabhupada: Stop it. Stop it. I say stop it. You have come to me for my advice. I say you stop it.
Devotee (2): Then, we say, what should we do?
Prabhupada: You should do your business. That's all. Earn money and enjoy.
Devotee (2): No, I mean what should we do Krsna consciously?
Prabhupada: You give up Krsna consciousness, I say. That is my advice.
Devotee (2): Why should we do that?
Prabhupada: Then that I cannot say.
Devotee (1): Isn't there a middle of the road?
Prabhupada: If you are finding so many faults, you give it up.
Devotee (1): No. We're not finding fault.
Prabhupada: Then there is no other advance, alternative. No alternative. Either you accept or reject it.
Devotee (1): We accept, but we would like some instruction on...
Prabhupada: No. I have no such knowledge to convince you.
Devotee (1): No, we accept Krsna consciousness philosophy...
Prabhupada: That's all right. Accept, or if you reject, reject.
Devotee (1): We accept.
Devotee (2): We want to apply it.
Devotee (1): We want to apply it to the world as it is now.
Prabhupada: No no. You cannot. You are not authorized.
Devotee (1): Well, who is authorized?
Prabhupada: The authorized... You are not authorized. Who is authorized, that is not your business.
Devotee (2): Then what does it mean to become disciple?
Prabhupada: Disciple, if you don't like, give it up.
Devotee (2): We do like it.
Prabhupada: You have already given up.
Devotee (2): If we didn't like it, we would not come here.
Prabhupada: No, no. You have already given up. My disciples do not keep so many hair.
Devotee (2): Many of your disciples do.
Prabhupada: No. I don't accept that. You just this one circle, little. But those who are keeping big hairs, they are rejected from my disciples.
Devotee (2): All right. That is clearing some things up.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (2): This is what we want to know.

[sleeping jiva]

jesus was a monkey: I agree with everything you believe in, it's all good and right. You're a bright person. I liked especially the phrase, if you have belief, youre not afraid to be misled. I argument with this when I try to make people chant the Hare Krishna mantra. I say if you're god, if you're free, if you're really inteligent, how can u be afraid to try singing the mahamantra?

[ChiefCowpie]

Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (2): Because then that is an unequivocal statement.
Prabhupada: No. This is, that you can, that anyone who is keeping hairs and not following the rules and regulations, they are rejected from second initiation.
Devotee (2): What if they are keeping hair but they are following the rules and regulations.
Prabhupada: Then let them follow. That's a good life. But from external features he must be a Vaisnava.
Devotee (2): To get second initiation.
Devotee (1): Does that mean shaved head?
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when His students used to come without tilaka, so He refused to see his face. He refused to see his face. He said it is a crematory ground.
Devotee (2): Why is that?
Prabhupada: There is no "why." If you accept it, accept. If you don't accept, leave us, leave us. There is no "why."
Devotee (2): Then that is...
Prabhupada: You are not following strictly. You cannot ask why.
Devotee (2): We could not ask why when we were following strictly either, Prabhupada. So I'm sorry that it has to be this way.
Prabhupada: No, our thing is that we have got some principles. If anyone cannot follow, then we don't accept him.
Devotee (1): Then what do you do with the rest of the world, except for the few people who...
rabhupada: So what I can do I am doing. Therefore you have no right to ask me. What is possible by me I am doing. And those who are able to follow, they are following. That's all.
Devotee (2): But they cannot engage anyone else. How can you reach the intelligent class?
Prabhupada: So that is their business. That is not your business.
Devotee (2): We are trying to be disciples, so we considered it our business because we are sincerely trying.
Prabhupada: So why you are bothering me? You do your business.
Devotee (2): Because from you only...
Prabhupada: I do not accept you because you are keeping hairs.
Devotee (2): I did not know that.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (2): You never told me that in Hawaii.
Prabhupada: Now I say, I'll repeat that anyone who is keeping long hairs, he is no more my disciple.
Devotee (2): All right.
Prabhupada: This is the first condition.
Devotee (1): Does that apply also for householder dharma, or is that simply for brahmacari dharma? Even you... I have pictures of you on the Bhagavatam when you did not have shaved head, with a mustache when you were doing your business as a householder. So does that apply to householders, or only to brahmacaris, that a householder must also keep a shaved head or is that...?
Prabhupada: At that time I was not initiated. You were seeing my picture, mustaches, at that time I was not initiated. Since I became initiated, I have shaven.
Devotee (1): Well, in India where one can do business...
Prabhupada: I can... Why you are bringing this question? You ask, "Why you had mustaches?" I say when I had mustaches, at that time, I was not initiated. That answer is given. That's all.
Devotee (2): Can I ask one more question, Prabhupada? What I would like to understand is why it is wrong to ask why? If I can just understand this, why it is wrong for us to ask you in a submissive way. We were humbly asking you these "whys," not because we are trying to be intimidating or we were trying to rebel, but because we have sincerely tried to understand as your disciples.
Prabhupada: So you better ask my so many other disciples?
Devotee (1): They don't have any answers.
Prabhupada: Then there is no answer. I cannot attend so many things.
Devotee (2): We are not so many.
Devotee (1): But these are the same questions which we have talked over with Revatinandana Swami and Jayatirtha. A great many...
Prabhupada: If my disciples, advanced students, cannot answer, then I am sorry. I cannot answer. I cannot answer.
Devotee (2): That we did not know. That we did not know.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now you know it. I have appointed so many GBCs because to help me. It is not possible to see everyone, individual. This is not...
Devotee (1): But these are the same questions which they themselves are posing to you.
Revatinandana: I have never met any other people who asked questions on the level that they are asking questions. I cannot answer many of their questions. I have studied all your books.
Prabhupada: I cannot. If you cannot, I cannot also. Because you have been taught by me, if you cannot, then it is...
Devotee (2): We have also been taught.
Revatinandana: I have read your books, and I have heard you lecture. And so many things they are asking, I am, have no capacity to answer them. But you must have the capacity because you know Krsna. Therefore they want to ask you personally.
Devotee (1): So that is the...
Prabhupada: So far I am not so able to answer. I admit my fault.
Devotee (1): Oh, so then that is...
Prabhupada: I cannot answer.
Devotee (1): I understand. Okay? But they are saying, the general conception of you is that because you know Krsna...
Prabhupada: You can... You...
Devotee (1): (interrupting) Excuse me. Because you know Krsna, therefore you know everything about the material world and can answer all questions.
Prabhupada: So whatever I know I have explained in my books. Beyond that I have no knowledge.
Devotee (2): If that is the case, Srila Prabhupada, that does not diminish our respect for you in the least because we have always held...
Prabhupada: So what can I do? I say that whatever I have got experience, I am explaining in my books. I have explained. So it is not possible for me to answer every individual person. It is not possible.
Devotee (2): We respect that. We understand. It is just that because they are saying these things...
Prabhupada: I have got my advanced students. They can answer. If they are unable, answer, if you do not find answer from my books, then it is hopeless.
Devotee (1): Ah! But your advanced students are saying if they give an answer that because they have been appointed by you, therefore their answer is perfectly correct, because, absolutely correct on all things in the relative world because, they have been appointed by you, and because you know...
Prabhupada: You may... That's all right. If you don't believe them, you can finish business.
Devotee (2): But are they correct? That's what we want to know.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are correct.
Devotee (2): That everything they say is the absolute truth?
Prabhupada: So what can I say? But I have no time to meet everyone.
Devotee (2): Is that correct, Srila Prabhupada? I want to know very clearly that every word that anyone whom you have appointed says is completely correct on all things?
Prabhupada: Yes. If they are authorized, it is correct.
Devotee (2): If they are authorized by you to be temple president...
Prabhupada: There is no reply.
Devotee (2): Then when (name witheld) said to me that he wanted to have homosexual affair with me, I should have said, "Okay. Whatever you say." Is that correct?
Prabhupada: So how to answer these questions?
Devotee (2): That is what he said to me. And he was a sannyasa. He is sannyasa and he said to me, "I want to have sex with you." Does that mean that Krsna was saying I should have sex with him?
Jayatirtha: So you have to see whether it is according to our principles.
Devotee (2): I'm asking you on a very practical... No. That is not what he said. He didn't say that. He said absolutely, and this is...
Upendra: Then you should listen to everything he said.
Devotee (2): I am. Because if I can judge then, if I can say, "Oh, at this point he is wrong," then that is what we are talking about, Srila Prabhupada. That is the issue. If they are absolutely right all the time and they can make no error, they wield absolute power over our lives.
Prabhupada: Where is (name witheld)? Where is (he)?
Satsvarupa: He is across the street.
Prabhupada: Has he said like that?
Devotee (2): Yes. I have witnesses.
Upendra: But he's admitted his error.
Devotee (2): That's beside the point.
Revatinandana: That's all right. But that's not the point here.
Upendra: The point is that Prabhupada, that if you come before Prabhupada for your own spiritual advancement, then it doesn't matter what other people are thinking...
Devotee (2): That's not the...
Devotee (1): That's not the crux of the matter at all.

[ChiefCowpie]

Revatinandana: The point here is not to criticize (him).
Devotee (1): No. We did not come for that at all.
Revatinandana: That wasn't the reason. The point is that anyone, (name witheld) or anybody else, he may be a sannyasi, but if he's doing all kinds of nonsense, how can we say that he has absolute authority? Because he was in charge of the place, etc., and he is also in an authoritative position, yet he breaks the principles.
Devotee (2): His personal servant, when he came... His name is (name witheld). (He) instigated a homosexual affair with him. This boy came to surrender to Krsna and surrendered to (him). But (he) told him to do that.
Upendra: But Prabhupada...
Devotee (2): Wait. I am not speaking with you. He said he did that and he did it in the name of his authority as a sannyasa. So if you say, Prabhupada, that everything that they say is absolutely true, then they will have absolute power and can do anything that they want, and anything that they say and any opinion they express is taken to be the same as yours, then it becomes implied that you agree with and condone such things, because they do them with absolute license. And we don't believe that to be true. So we think it is some kind of mistake.
Prabhupada: They say like that?
Devotee (1): Everyone says like that.
Devotee (2): They do, Prabhupada.
Satsvarupa: No, they don't. Srila Prabhupada has said these things don't apply to you. Don't worry about them because you are not following the principles.
Devotee (1): But they do say, and we are following and you don't know what we're doing, Satsvarupa, because you haven't known me for two years. So you really don't know what I'm doing. You're not around.
Satsvarupa: But our society is going nicely. It's not...
Devotee (2): In some respects it's going fine. But these are problems which can be dealt with amongst us, and they are affecting all of us. And for some people these are problems though they may not be for you. I think, as far as I know, your conduct has always been very honorable. But for some people who it's not and where these misconceptions apply, it's a real problem and we're trying to deal with it because it affects our lives.
Upendra: The strength to deal with those problems comes from following sadhanacara.
Devotee (2): We are also attempting to follow sadhanacara. And if we are imperfect...
Prabhupada: Anyway, if he has said so, that is wrong.
Devotee (1): But is that then applying to everyone. Does someone who is in the adminis... (end)


© 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust

[jailmate]

Haha, Jailmate.

I'm not sure if you're insane, wise, or just trying to be funny.

Perhaps all three.

Peace bro, keep growin' that hair.

besure, grow that mop

[sleeping jiva]

Chief: Could you give me a link on the source of that article, please?

Check this out:
http://www.prabhupadavani.org/web/text/036.html

[BlackBillBlake]

Guru with hair - Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja!

[ChiefCowpie]

Chief: Could you give me a link on the source of that article, please?


http://www.krishna.com/ it has to be downloaded as a pdf file

[ChiefCowpie]

Check this out:
http://www.prabhupadavani.org/web/text/036.html
what points would you like to discuss here

Arjuna fighting his guru in battle was not rejecting his guru but the perfection of the dharma his guru had taught him

as per s.p. encouraging the short hairs, imo, he was trying to encourage the cohesion of the monastic institution he had founded

as per his not having answers to all the devotess questions, i think this to be an act of both humility and not wanting his disciples to ask him of every little issue but to go to his managers so he could devote his time to the important work of translating

and too, it seems to be his Divine Grace's mood that he was prepped in advance that these two devotees were rascals and trouble makers but getting into the talk, he finds out that this is not entirely the case as he seems to have been misled by his senior disciples

[ChiefCowpie]

http://www.dharmakshetra.com/gallery/Searching.jpg
another devotee with long hairs

[jailmate]

Guru with hair - Jailmate