hare krishna

[ChiefCowpie]

At that time, the donated land was a wild jungle full of mosquitoes, snake and scorpions. It was so far from the city center that even during the daytime people were scared to visit out of fear of dacoits. But Srila Gaura Govinda Swami, considering the desire of Srila Prabhupada his life and soul, was undaunted and worked with unwavering determination to fulfill it. Sometimes residing in the storeroom of a tea dealer and even sometimes sharing a small hut with the road construction workers, he began translating Srila Prabhupada’s books into Oriya as he had been instructed.

Spreading Krishna consciousness, Srila Gaura Govinda Swami would visit house after house, office after office, in and around Bhubaneswar, sometimes walking sometimes riding on the carriage rack of a bicycle peddled by a local student, who later became his dear disciple, Sacinandana dasa. In this way he collected some small donations and with his own hands constructed a thatched hut on the donated property.

In early 1977 Srila Prabhupada came to Bhubaneswar. Although arrangements had been made for Srila Prabhupada to stay comfortably in the government state guest house, Srila Prabhupada at once rejected this proposal. He said, “I will only stay where my disciple child Gaura Govinda has built a mud hut for me.”Srila Prabhupada stayed in Bhubaneswar for seventeen days, during which he laid the foundation stone of the temple-to-be on the auspicious occasion of Lord Nityananda’s appearance day. This was Srila Prabhupada’s last founded project.

In 1991, after sixteen years of determined endeavors, Srila Gaura Govinda Swami fulfilled the instruction of his spiritual master with the opening of a magnificent temple of Sri Sri Krishna-Balarama which now attracts thousands of people! to Krishna consciousness. Srila Gaura Govinda Swami said “I have opened a ‘crying school’ here in Bhubaneswar. Unless we cry for Krishna, we cannot get his mercy.” This was the message he preached so vigorously all over the world during the last ten years of his manifest pastimes.

Although Srila Gaura Govinda Swami was always meek and humble in his personal dealings, in his classes on Srimad-bhagavatam he would roar like a lion, smashing the pride and cutting the misconceptions from the hearts of his disciples. Sometimes he would read an apparently basic philosophical statement from Prabhupada’s purports. Then he would laugh like a child and say, “Here the topic of krishna-prema comes up, but it requires further explanation.” Then he would astound the devotees by giving more and more profound explanations of the same sentence for two or three hours. On one such occasion he said, “Look, Krishna is laughing at me because I am trying to completely describe this topic, which is unlimited.”

Srila Gaura Govinda Swami’s knowledge of scripture was formidable. He would substantiate everything he said with evidence from all over the Vedic literature. Sometimes he would question a disciple and if the disciple could not answer with reference to the scriptures, Srila Gaura Govinda Swami would at once exclaim, “He is a cheater. Don’t be a crooked person. A Vaishnava quotes authority.”

On February 9th, 1996, the holy appearance day of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, two senior devotees requested an appointment to see Srila Gaura Govinda Swami. They had never spoken with him before, but they had become eager to hear from him after reading some of his books. As if by providential arrangement, they entered his room at 6.00 p.m. and submissively inquired, "Why did Caitanya Mahaprabhu stay in Jagannatha Puri?" He laughed with delight and began to explain the confidential significance of Mahaprabhu's pastimes. In anser to this question he lovingly described the pain of separation felt by Radha and Krishna when Krishna was away from Vrindavana. He had often narrated this moving pastime as recorded in Chapter Eight of this great work, "The Embankment of Separation". Enchanting all the devotees in his room with the nectarean topics of Krishna, he gradually unfolded the pastime to the point where Radha and Krishna were finally united after Their long separation. He described how Krishna became so ecstatic upon seeing Radharani that He manifested a form with big round eyes, known as Lord Jagannatha. With a choked voice he said, "Then the eyes of Krishna fell upon the eyes of Radharani. Eye-to-Eye union." Overwhelmed with love for Radha and Krishna, he apologized with folded hands, "Please excuse me, I cannot speak". In a barely audible voice he gave his final instruction: "Nama Koro! Nama Koro! (Chant the holy name)" All the devotees began to chant as their spiritual master lay back on his bed, breathing very slowly and deeply. A servant nearby placed a picture of Gopal Jiu [his childhood deity] in his hand. Then, gazing lovingly at the picture of his worshipable deity, Srila Gaura Govinda Swami called out, "Gopal!" and departed for the spiritual sky to be united with his beloved Lord.

Every day before Srimad-Bhagavatam class, Srila Gaura Govinda Swami would sing a song he had learned as a boy. Now his prayer was fulfilled.

paramananda he madhava
padungaluchi makaranda

se-makaranda pana-kari
anande bolo 'hari hari'

harinka name vandha vela
pari karive caka-dola

se-caka-dolanka-payare
mana-mo rahu nirantare

mana mo nirantare rahu
'ha-krishna' boli jiva jau

'ha-krishna' boli jau jiva
mote udhara radha-dhava mote udhara radha-dhava
mote udhara radha-dhava

"O supremely blissful Madhava! The nectar is coming from Your lotus feet. Drinking that nectar, I blissfully sing 'Hari! Hari!' With the name of Hari I am binding a raft on which Lord Jagannatha will ferry me across this ocean of material existence. My mind always remains at the lotus feet of that Lord Jagannatha who has very large round eyes. In this way, I call out "Ha Krishna!" and give up my life. O husband of Radharani, please deliver me."The sadhu never speaks theoretically.


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[ChiefCowpie]

Personality Cultism is Anti Vaishnava

by Sridam Sakha Das


Ever since the early nineties, papers by both official GBC sources and independent individuals have been written, giving a multitude of reasons as to why it is not a good idea to go and hear from our spiritual master Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaja. Such papers have always been difficult to counter, since accusations and criticisms are always easier to make than to give the necessary exhaustive replies to. Our experience is that any inchoate refutation soon threatens to assume the alarming dimensions of an epic.

Since it is not practical or possible to try to refute all the challenges of such detractors in one fell swoop, we will start instead by addressing a misconception which seems to be common to them all. It is the most ingrained and deep rooted, and upon which all their other fallacies find their basis.

The misconception in question is the premise on the part of the authors that Srila Prabhupada is their sole authority and reference point, and that the relative standards which he set for ISKCON should be continued indefinitely.

For instance, in his paper of June '97 Badrinarayana prabhu states:

"Srila Prabhupada clearly intended the standards he established for the philosophy and practice of Krsna consciousness to remain as the norm for ISKCON for the next ten thousand years."

Similarly, in his recent paper "So many questions", Datta prabhu, after claiming to "fully and unconditionally" accept Srila Prabhupada as his "diksa guru siksa guru and Acarya" states: "The standards for ISKCON have been eternally defined by Srila Prabhupada, its Founder-Acharya. NO-ONE may re-define them" (his emphasis).

Ostensibly, such proclamations arise from the noble sentiments of loyalty and devotion to Srila Prabhupada. However, when we begin to analyze them in terms of the teachings of the personality whom they purport to represent, then it all begins to look less rosy. Why? For the simple reason that Srila Prabhupada never instructed or wanted that any of his disciples focus on him exclusively for posterity, or turn him into a messiah-type figure.

Rather, for the sake of determining truth, he painstakingly taught us that one should refer to *three* sources of authority, namely sadhu, sastra and guru:

"Srila Narottama dasa Thakura says, sadhu-sastra-guru-vakya, cittete kariya aikya. One should accept a thing as genuine by studying the words of saintly people, the spiritual master and sastra. THE ACTUAL CENTER IS SASTRA, the revealed scripture. If a spiritual master does not speak according to revealed scripture, he is not to be accepted. Similarly, if a saintly person does not speak according to the sastra, he is not a saintly person. SASTRA IS THE CENTER FOR ALL." (Madhya-lila: Chapter Twenty, Text 352)

Therefore, one who is truly a follower of Srila Prabhupada should follow the above, wherein he states that it is sastra which is in fact the main reference point, and not guru.

(see also appendix 1)

Out of a misplaced sentiment of loyalty, a disciple may decide that he will not hear from another vaisnava, or accept any other guru after the disappearance of his diksa guru. However, by so doing he will only cause more problems than he thinks to solve.

The reason for this is quite self evident. Coming to the material world, a guru is having to deal with relative conditions, and therefore sometimes his statements and actions will also be relative accordingly. That being the case, a disciple who refers to the teachings of his guru alone will not be able to discern between a teaching which is intended as siddhanta, and one that is meant for a specific person, place or circumstance. With this relativity in mind, Srila Prabhupada tells us:

"To broadcast the cult of Krsna consciousness, one has to learn the possibility of renunciation in terms of country, time and candidate. A candidate for Krsna consciousness in the Western countries should be taught about the renunciation of material existence, but one would teach candidates from a country like India in a different way. The teacher (acarya) has to consider time, candidate and country. He must avoid the principle of niyamagraha--that is, he should not try to perform the impossible. What is possible in one country may not be possible in another. The acarya's duty is to accept the essence of devotional service. There may be a little change here and there as far as yukta-vairagya (proper renunciation) is concerned. ...What is required is a special technique according to country, time and candidate." (Madhya-lila 23.105)

"It is the concern of the acarya to show mercy to the fallen souls. In this connection, desa-kala-patra (the place, the time and the object) should be taken into consideration." (Adi 7.38)

"The Vedas instruct us that knowledge must always be considered in terms of desa-kala-patra. Desa means 'circumstances,' kala means 'time,' and patra means 'the object.' We must understand everything by taking these three elements into consideration." (Life Comes from Life: The First Morning Walk April 18, 1973)

"As an ideal acarya, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu devised ways to capture all kinds of atheists and materialists. Every acarya has a specific means of propagating his spiritual movement with the aim of bringing men to Krsna consciousness. Therefore, THE METHOD OF ONE ACARYA MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF ANOTHER, but the ultimate goal is never neglected." (Adi-lila Chapter Seven, Text 37)

"The supreme Lord Shree Krishna Chaitanya in pursuance of the teaching of the scriptures enjoins all absence of conventionalism for the teachers of the eternal religion." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta saraswati, The Harmonist Vol. XXIX No 7 1932)

Even the Gosvamis were obliged to temper their preaching approach with this consideration in mind:

"Sanatana Gosvami wrote his Vaisnava smrti, Hari-bhakti-vilasa, which was specifically meant for India. In those days, India was more or less following the principle of smarta-vidhi. Srila Sanatana Gosvami HAD TO KEEP PACE WITH THIS, and his Hari-bhakti-vilasa was compiled with this in mind." (Madhya-lila23.105)

However, not only does an acarya sometimes compromise his presentation of the absolute truth for the sake of his disciples and followers, but on occasion he will deliberately speak isolated, outright untruths to them. In fact, he may even go so far as to consistently teach them an utterly false doctrine for the purpose of uplifting them, if he sees that they are sufficiently degraded or illusioned. We see that this was done by Sankaracarya and Lord Buddha.

Such merciful preaching tactics are not confined to them either:

"These are the secrets of the acaryas. Sometimes they conceal the real purpose of the Vedas and explain the Vedas in a different way. Sometimes they enunciate a different theory just to bring the atheists under their control." (Madhya-lila 25.42)

Even in our own vaisnava sampradayas, there are numerous examples of bonafide acaryas who deliberately preached doctrines which were quite contrary to siddhanta, in order to attract a certain class of person. This practice is known as "badasamisa nyaya", meaning the logic of using the bait to catch the fish. One example is that of Srila Sridhara Svami. Because he was writing his commentaries on the Bhagavatam in Varanasi, which is a stronghold of the followers of impersonalism, he introduced some of their faulty teachings into his writings in order to attract them to Vaisnavism. Understanding his reasons for so doing, far from rejecting his commentaries in wholesale fashion, later acaryas merely deleted those parts that were incorrect, and reverently preserved the main body for future generations. In our Rupanuga varga, we also have the example of Srila Jiva goswami, who wrote a book teaching that svakiya rasa (wedded love) is higher than parakiya rasa (paramour love), even though this is contrary to all the teachings of our acaryas. His reason for doing this was because some of his neophyte disciples were too disturbed by the concept of parakiya rasa between Krsna and the gopis. (see appendix 2) More recently, we have the example of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura, whose immediate preaching field consisted largely of intellectual Indians who had been educated by the British. Since he did not want to prematurely jar their false sophistications with too intense a presentation of the Srimad Bhagavatam, he dismissed 5th canto accounts of hellish planets as mere puranic myths. He claimed that their inclusion within was only for the purpose of frightening ignorant and superstitious people into abstaining from sinful activity. (see appendix 3) Nevertheless, although this has never been stated by any other acarya, and is contrary to sadhu sastra and guru, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura is nevertheless revered as "the seventh gosvami" by all subsequent acaryas.

However, despite understanding the above, a disciple may reason that since his means of deliverance from the material energy is from the mercy of his guru, he will not therefore concern himself about whether or not all of the statements his guru has given are all perfectly siddhantic. This logic may work for a time, at least for long as the guru and the extraordinary circumstances in which he is preaching are manifest. However, the guru also wishes that his disciple properly understand the siddhanta and thereby advance in spiritual life. He certainly does not intend for him to remain in ignorance and illusion. Speaking about this, Srila Prabhupada tells us:

[ChiefCowpie]

However, despite understanding the above, a disciple may reason that since his means of deliverance from the material energy is from the mercy of his guru, he will not therefore concern himself about whether or not all of the statements his guru has given are all perfectly siddhantic. This logic may work for a time, at least for long as the guru and the extraordinary circumstances in which he is preaching are manifest. However, the guru also wishes that his disciple properly understand the siddhanta and thereby advance in spiritual life. He certainly does not intend for him to remain in ignorance and illusion. Speaking about this, Srila Prabhupada tells us:

"Therefore this imaginary meaning is gauna-vrtti, whereas the direct meaning found in the dictionary is mukhya-vrtti or abhidha-vrtti. This is the distinction between the two. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommends that one understand the Vedic literature in terms of abhidha-vrtti, and the gauna-vrtti He rejects. SOMETIMES, HOWEVER, AS A MATTER OF NECESSITY, VEDIC LITERATURE IS DESCRIBED IN TERMS OF THE LAKSANA-VRTTI OR GAUNA-VRTTI, BUT ONE SHOULD NOT ACCEPT SUCH EXPLANATIONS AS PERMANENT TRUTHS." (Adi-lila 7.110)

"Vaisnava who is preaching, it may be in a different way, according to time and place and the party. They have to change something, desa-kala-patra. BUT WE HAVE TO SEE THE ESSENCE." (Prabhupada's Lectures (Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1974 741008SB.MAY)

"The essence of devotional service must be taken into consideration, and not the outward paraphernalia." (Madhya-lila: 23.105)

"Just this morning we were reading, yah sastra-vidhim utsrjya. If he follows the rules and regulations and, uh, then it is sure that he will come to that stage. BUT YOU SHOULD NOT BE RIGID. Suppose I have come to certain stage. "Oh, therefore I'll take it as final." No. There is no improvement. YOU HAVE TO SEEK OUT, IF THERE IS MORE AND MORE KNOWLEDGE BEYOND THIS. Just like the higher mathematics and mathematics in the infant class." (660826BG.NY Lectures)

Since Srila Prabhupada's preaching mission was undertaken in quite exceptional and unprecedented circumstances, it was necessary for him perhaps more than an any other acarya since Srila Rupa Gosvami to employ the principle of badasamisa nyaya. Indeed, never could time, place and circumstance have been so radically different for preceding acaryas as they were for Srila Prabhupada. Wishing that his disciples and followers understand this principle very clearly, he spoke about it at length and in depth on a number of occasions. (see 4 - 6 in appendix)

Despite this, certain devotees see fit to criticize Srila Narayan Maharaja because some of his preaching and standards differ from those of Srila Prabhupada. Although they seem to think that the more faithfully they copy the external activities of Srila Prabhupada, the more qualified they will be, they are in fact entirely wrong. As has already been shown, there will inevitably always be differences between the preaching approach of one acarya and another. Therefore, far from being a disqualification, adjustment of preaching according to time place and circumstance is what we *would* expect to see from the bonafide acarya. It is in fact the artificial copying of the previous acarya which is condemned:

"One who tries to imitate the mahajanas just to become an imitative spiritual master is certainly far away from following in the footsteps of the mahajanas. Sometimes people cannot actually understand how a mahajana follows other mahajanas. In this way people are inclined to fall from devotional service. " (Madhya 17.185)

"We are not likely to benefit by any mechanical imitation of any practices of Thakur Bhaktivinode on the opportunist principle that they may be convenient for us to adopt." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, The Harmonist, December 1931, vo l. XXIX No.66)

"The mere pursuit of fixed doctrines and fixed liturgies cannot hold a person to the true spirit of doctrine or liturgy." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, The Harmonist, December 1931, vol. XXIX No.66)

A conditioned soul needs the personal guidance of a bonafide guru, and cannot make significant spiritual advancement by reference to sadhu or sastra alone. This applies as much to those who may have received diksa or siksa at one time, but are now physically separated from their guru, as it does to those who never had the good fortune of ever associating with a bonafide spiritual master. Indeed, one who refuses to accept a siksa guru after the disappearance of his diksa guru becomes an offender:

"There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple. If one thinks that he is above consulting anyone else, INCLUDING A SPIRITUAL MASTER, he is at once an offender at the lotus feet of the Lord. Such an offender can never go back to Godhead. It is imperative that a serious person accept a bona fide spiritual master in terms of the sastric injunctions." (Adi 1.35)

Shortly after the disappearance of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura, there were many of his disciples who were also of the mistaken opinion that they would be able to retain a spiritual connection with their guru independently of siksa guidance. Seeing this, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta saraswati wrote an entire paper to defeat their deluded theory. He states:

"Those who pretend to recognise the Divine Mission of Thakur Bhaktivinode WITHOUT ASPIRING TO THE UNCONDITIONAL SERVICE OF THOSE PURE SOULS WHO REALLY FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS OF THE THAKUR BY THE METHOD ENJOINED BY THE SCRIPTURES and explained by Thakur Bhaktivinode in a way that is so eminently suited to the requirements of the sophisticated mentality of the present Age, only deceive themselves and their willing victims by their hypocritical professions and performances. These persons must not be confounded with the bonafide members of the flock." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, The Harmonist, December 1931, vo l. XXIX No.66)

Sadhu sanga is our key to success, and is always necessary without exception. Even a madhyama-adhikari (what to speak of a neophyte) is instructed to both "study the sastras and associate with a first-class devotee", or he will "make no progress":

"It should be understood that a madhyama-adhikari, a second-class devotee, is fully convinced of Krsna consciousness but cannot support his convictions with sastric reference. A neophyte may fall down by associating with nondevotees because he is not firmly convinced and strongly situated. The second-class devotee, even though he cannot support his position with sastric reference, can gradually become a first-class devotee by studying the sastras AND associating with a first-class devotee. However, if the second-class devotee does not advance himself by associating with a first-class devotee, he makes no progress." (Madhya 22.71 The Process of Devotional Service)

[ChiefCowpie]

krsna-bhakti-janma-mula haya 'sadhu-sanga' krsna-prema janme, tenho punah mukhya anga

"The root cause of devotional service to Lord Krsna is association with advanced devotees. Even when one's dormant love for Krsna awakens, association with devotees IS STILL MOST ESSENTIAL." (Madhya 22.83)

The above statement is borne out by the example of Bharata Maharaja who had progressed even to the point of bhava bhakti, but who fell down on account of not having the association of a physically manifest guru:

"Bharata Maharaja did not consult a spiritual master when he became overly attached to a deer. Consequently he became strongly attached to the deer, and, forgetting his spiritual routine, he fell down." (Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 5: Chapter Twelve, Text 14) vatam Canto 5: Chapter Twelve, Text 14)

(see also points 7 & 8 in appendix)

If mono-guru advocates are under the impression that Srila Prabhupada's books are going to yield their priceless contents to them by the simple expedient of independent reference, then they are quite mistaken. The books themselves tell us:

"Great authorities should be followed; otherwise, if we simply depend on the scriptures, we are sometimes misled by rascals, or else we cannot understand or follow the different spiritual injunctions." (SB 3.16.23)

Our process, repeated from sastra by Srila Prabhupada time and time again, is to hear the book Bhagavata from the person Bhagavata. In the Caitanya caritamrta, Srila Svarupa Damodara states:

yaha bhagavata pada vaisnavera sthane ekanta asraya kara caitanya-carane

"'If you want to understand Srimad Bhagavatam', he said, 'you must approach a self-realised vaisnava and hear from him. You can do this when you have completely taken shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu'". (CC Ant 5.131)

(see also points 9 - 17 in appendix)

Speaking of the teachings of his father, some of whose disciples also asserted that by their study alone they would be able to continue to progress spiritually, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta saraswati states:

"If his works are studied in the light of one's own worldly experience their meaning will refuse to disclose itself to such readers. His works belong to the class of the eternal revealed literature of the world and must be approached for their right understanding through their exposition by the pure devotee. If no help from the pure devotee is sought the works of Thakur Bhaktivinode will be GROSSLY MISUNDERSTOOD by their readers." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, The Harmonist, December 1931, vol. XXIX No.6)

"The writings of Thakur Bhaktivinode are valuable because they demolish all empiric objections against accepting the only method of approaching the Absolute in the right way. They cannot and were never intended to give access to the Absolute without help from the pure devotee of Krishna." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, (The Harmonist, December 1931, vol. XXIX No.6)

Unfortunately, although Srila Prabhupada has instructed us:

"The process of speaking in spiritual circles is to say something upheld by the scriptures. One should at once quote from scriptural authority to back up what he is saying. At the same time, such talk should be very pleasurable to the ear." (Bhagavad-gita 17.15)

Those who have seen fit to find fault with Srila Narayan Maharaja have neither quoted from scriptural authority to back up what they are saying, nor have they spoken in a way which is "very pleasurable to the ear". On the contrary, their literary compositions are, quite simply, systematic, slanderous propaganda attempts to invalidate Srila Narayan Maharaja in the eyes of the vaisnava community.

That this kind of conduct is utterly repugnant and the height of bad taste is an axiomatic truth for any vaisnava. However, what is really staggering is the fact that its perpetrators, many of whom are long standing members, appear to have no understanding or appreciation of the fundamental philosophical principles discussed in this paper.

To date, we have not found that any of their writings have ever contained any valid criticisms based on "scriptural authority". Rather, if they are not pushing ad hominem, then their contents otherwise consist of attacks made on the basis that because his preaching activities are not identical to those of Srila Prabhupada, that Srila Narayan Maharaja therefore cannot truly represent him. However, as the evidence of this paper so abundantly illustrates, such a theory is meaningless.

Nevertheless, we will in subsequent publications address the specific criticisms which have been made, and will show how in fact the actions and preaching of Srila Narayan Maharaja are wholely in line with sadhu sastra and guru.

--end--

[ChiefCowpie]

Appendix

(1) "Narottama dasa Thakura, a great devotee and acarya in the Gaudiya Vaisnava-sampradaya, says that all spiritual activities should be understood from three sources, namely saintly persons, standard scriptures and the spiritual master. These three guides are very important for progress in spiritual life. The spiritual master prescribes standard literature for the prosecution of the yoga of devotional service, and he himself speaks only from scriptural reference. Therefore reading standard scriptures is necessary for executing yoga. Practicing yoga without reading the standard literatures is simply a waste of time." (SB 3.28.4 Purport)

(2) "According to another accusation, Srila Jiva Gosvami did not approve of the principles of the parakiya-rasa of Vrajadhama and therefore supported svakiya-rasa, showing that Radha and Krsna are eternally married. Actually, when Jiva Gosvami was alive, some of his followers disliked the parakiya-rasa of the gopis. Therefore Srila Jiva Gosvami, for their spiritual benefit, supported svakiya-rasa, for he could understand that sahajiyas would otherwise exploit the parakiya-rasa, as they are actually doing at the present. Unfortunately, in Vrndavana and Navadvipa it has become fashionable among sahajiyas, in their debauchery, to find an unmarried sexual partner to live with to execute devotional service in parakiya-rasa. Foreseeing this, Srila Jiva Gosvami supported svakiya-rasa, and later all the Vaisnava acaryas also appoved of it. Srila Jiva Gosvami was never opposed to the transcendental parakiya-rasa, nor has any other Vaisnava disapproved of it. Srila Jiva Gosvami strictly followed his predecessor gurus and Vaisnavas, Srila Rupa and Sanatana Gosvami, and Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami accepted him as one of his instructor gurus." (Adi-lila 10.85)

(3) "The religion of the Bhagavata is free from such a poetic imagination. Indeed, in some of the chapters we meet with descriptions of these hells and heavens, and accounts of curious tales, but we have been warned in some place in the book, not to accept them as real facts, but treat as inventions to overawe the wicked and to improve the simple and the ignorant. The Bhagavata, certainly tells us of a state of reward and punishment in future according to our deeds in our present situation. All poetic inventions, besides this spiritual fact, have been described as statements borrowed from other works in the way of retention of some old traditions in this book which completely superseded them all and put an end to the necessity of their storage." (The Bhagavat: Its Philosophy, Its Ethics & Its Theology, p.25)

(4) "To broadcast the cult of Krsna consciousness, one has to learn the possibility of renunciation in terms of country, time and candidate. A candidate for Krsna consciousness in the Western countries should be taught about the renunciation of material existence, but one would teach candidates from a country like India in a different way. The teacher (acarya) has to consider time, candidate and country. He must avoid the principle of niyamagraha--that is, he should not try to perform the impossible. What is possible in one country may not be possible in another. The acarya's duty is to accept the essence of devotional service. There may be a little change here and there as far as yukta-vairagya (proper renunciation) is concerned. Dry renunciation is forbidden by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and we have also learned this from our spiritual master, His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Gosvami Maharaja. The essence of devotional service must be taken into consideration, and not the outward paraphernalia. Sanatana Gosvami wrote his Vaisnava smrti, Hari-bhakti-vilasa, which was specifically meant for India. In those days, India was more or less following the principle of smarta-vidhi. Srila Sanatana Gosvami had to keep pace with this, and his Hari-bhakti-vilasa was compiled with this in mind. According to smarta- brahmanas, a person not born in a brahmana family could not be elevated to the position of a brahmana. Sanatana Gosvami, however, says in Hari-bhakti- vilasa (2.12) that anyone can be elevated to the position of a brahmana by the process of initiation.

yatha kancanatam yati
kamsyam rasa-vidhanatah
tatha diksa-vidhanena
dvijatvam jayate nrnam

There is a difference between the smarta process and the gosvami process. According to the smarta process, one cannot be accepted as a brahmana unless he is born in a brahmana family. According to the gosvami process, the Hari-bhakti- vilasa and the Narada-pancaratra, anyone can be a brahmana if he is properly initiated by a bona fide spiritual master. This is also the verdict of Sukadeva Gosvami in Srimad-Bhagavatam (2.4.18):

kira ta-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye'nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah

A Vaisnava is immediately purified, provided he follows the rules and regulations of his bona fide spiritual master. it is not necessary that the rules and regulations followed in India be exactly the same as those in Europe, America and other Western countries. Simply imitating without effect is called niyamagraha. Not following the regulative principles but instead living extravagantly is also called niyamagraha. The word niyama means "regulative principles," and agraha means "eagerness." The word agraha means "not to accept." We should not follow regulative principles without an effect, nor should we fail to accept the regulative principles. What is required is a special technique according to country, time and candidate. Without the sanction of the spiritual master, we should not try to imitate. This principle is recommended here: suska-vairagya-jnana saba nisedhila. This is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's liberal demonstration of the bhakti cult." (Madhya-lila 23.105)

(5) The method of worship--chanting the mantra and preparing the forms of the Lord--is not stereotyped, nor is it exactly the same everywhere. lt is specifically mentioned in this verse that one should take consideration of the time, place and available conveniences. Our Krsna consciousness movement is going on throughout the entire world, and we also install Deities in different centers. Sometimes our lndian friends, puffed up with concocted notions, criticize, "This has not been done. That has not been done." But they forget this instruction of Narada Muni to one of the greatest Vaisnavas, Dhruva Maharaja. One has to consider the particular time, country and conveniences. What is convenient in India may not be convenient in the Western countries. Those who are not actually in the line of acaryas, or who personally have no knowledge of how to act in the role of acarya, unnecessarily criticize the activities of the ISKCON movement in countries outside of India. The fact is that such critics cannot do anything personally to spread Krsna consciousness. If someone does go and preach, taking all risks and allowing all considerations for time and place, it might be that there are changes in the manner of worship, but that is not at all faulty according to sastra. Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The formalities may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas. (SB 4.8.54)

(6) The expert devotees also can discover novel ways and means to convert the nondevotees in terms of particular time and circumstance. Devotional service is dynamic activity, and the expert devotees can find out competent means to inject it into the dull brains of the materialistic population. Such transcendental activities of the devotees for the service of the Lord can bring a new order of life to the foolish society of materialistic men. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His subsequent followers exhibited expert dexterity in this connection. (SB 1.5.16)

(7) "One cannot understand Krsna by mental speculation. For one who does not take personal training under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master, it is impossible to even begin to understand Krsna." (Bg 11.54)

(8) "The process is that whatever we offer to the Deity, that is offered to guru. And guru offers to his guru. In this way goes to Krsna. We don't directly offer Radha-Krsna. No. We have no right. Neither He accepts in that way. The pictures of the acaryas, why there are? Actually, one has to offer the plate to his guru, and he'll offer his guru, he offers his guru, his guru. In this way it will go to Krsna. That is the process. YOU CANNOT DIRECTLY APPROACH KRSNA OR OTHER SUBORDINATES TO KRSNA. THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE."

(Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1971 710215SB.GOR)

(9) "A third-class devotee, therefore, has to receive the instructions of devotional service from the authoritative sources of Bhagavata. The number one Bhagavata is the established personality of devotee, and the other Bhagavatam is the message of Godhead. THE THIRD-CLASS DEVOTEE THEREFORE HAS TO GO TO THE PERSONALITY OF DEVOTEE IN ORDER TO LEARN THE INSTRUCTIONS OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE." (SB 1.2.12)

(10) "The messages of the book Bhagavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhagavata, and the combination of these Two Bhagavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on." (SB 1.2.18)

(11) "The more progress is made in devotional service under the guidance of the Bhagavatas, the more one becomes fixed in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The messages of the book Bhagavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhagavata, and the combination of these two Bhagavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on." (SB 3.8.2)

[ChiefCowpie]

(12) eka bhagavata bada - bhagavata-sastra ara bhagavata - bhakta bhakti-rasa patra

dui bhagavata dvara diya bhakti rasa tanhara hrdaye tanre preme haya vasa

"One of the bhagavatas is the great scripture, Srimad-Bhagavatam. The other is the pure devotee bhagavata, who is absorbed in bhakti rasa. Through the actions of these two bhagavatas the Lord instills the mellows of bhakti rasa into the heart of a living being and thus the Lord, in the heart of His devotee, comes under the control of His devotee's love." (Adi-lila 1.99, 100)

(13) "And Bhagavata means the book Bhagavata and the person bhagavata. The person bhagavata is spiritual master or any exalted devotee. He is bhagavata, maha-bhagavata, bhagavata. So bhagavata-sevaya means not only reading Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavatam, but WE HAVE TO STUDY FROM THE PERSON BHAGAVATA. That is required." (Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1975 750227BG.MIA)

(14) "Therefore, formerly there was no written book. Sruti, simply by hearing, a brahmacari would be educated, simply by hearing. There was no need of books, writing. Therefore the Vedic literature is known as sruti. It is to be learned by hearing. EVEN THERE IS BOOK, STILL, ONE HAS TO LEARN IT BY HEARING FROM THE REALIZED SOUL." (Prabhupada's Lectures 750730SRIMAD BHAGAVATAM.DAL)

(15) "SIMPLE THEORETICAL BOOK KNOWLEDGE IS NOT SUFFICIENT FOR A NEOPHYTE DEVOTEE. Book knowledge is theoretical, whereas the arcana process is practical. Spiritual knowledge must be developed by a combination of theoretical and practical knowledge, and that is the guaranteed way for attainment of spiritual perfection. THE TRAINING OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE FOR A NEOPHYTE DEVOTEE COMPLETELY DEPENDS ON THE EXPERT SPIRITUAL MASTER who knows how to lead his disciple to make gradual progress towards the path back home, back to Godhead." (SB 2.3.22)

(16) "The instructions received from the spiritual master must be followed immediately. One should not deviate from or surpass the instructions of the spiritual master. ONE SHOULD NOT BE SIMPLY INTENT ON CONSULTING BOOKS but should simultaneously execute the spiritual master's order (yathopadesam)." (SB 5.5.14)

In the following, Srila Prabhupada is asked point blank by one of his disciples whether or not one can spiritually advance simply by reading his books alone. His answer is a quite definite "no":

(17) Madhudvisa: ...cannot become a medical practitioner by simply reading the books. He must study under a medical practitioner. So in the case of your books, is it possible to become a devotee without actually having personal association with you? Just by reading your books?
Prabhupada: No, it is not that you have to associate with the author. BUT ONE WHO KNOWS, IF YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE TO TAKE LESSON FROM HIM. Not necessarily that you have to contact with the author always. Devotee: Just like the textbooks are not written by the teachers; they're written by other professors.
Devotee: Usually you don't even meet the author.
Prabhupada: Simply one who knows the subject matter, he can explain.
Madhudvisa: But can your, would your purports, would that serve as explanation besides...
Prabhupada: NO, NO, ANYONE WHO KNOWS THE SUBJECT MATTER, HE WILL BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN. Not necessarily the author is required to be present there.
(Morning Walk Melbourne, May 21, 1975 750521MW.MEL)

If you would like to read more material on or by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, then please contact the following websites:


If you would like to purchase literature by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja in the US, then please contact the following address:

Nanda-gopala das adhikari, PO Box 99, Badger, Ca 93603, tel 1-559-337-2448, e-mail nandagopal108@hotmail.com

From Europe:

Gour Govinda Gaudiya Math, 32 Handsworth Wood Road, Birmingham B20 2DS, UK 44-121-682-9159 gourgovinda@hotmail.com

From India: The Secretary, Kesavji Gaudiya Math, Mathura UP, 281001, India tel. 91-565-409453, e-mail kdd@writeme.com

To purchase audio tapes from the US, please contact Mahi bharta das Adhikari, PO Box 132, Badger, Ca 93603 tel 1-559-337-2411

To purchase video tapes from the US, please contact: rasaraja@goloka.com

[sleeping jiva]

Chief CowPie: I believe this is a thread about Krishna consciousness, not about who is bigger guru. Many people don't even know who is Krishna -this is too confusing for them and I believe that it turns them off. Srila Prabhupada did a lot for spreading Krishna consciousness, his work is incomparable with anyone in the 20th century. There's no other way to understand Krishna than to chant His Holy Names- not by mental speculation. You don't need to care about who your guru is. It's all Krishna's work. He'll send you the guru you deserve. So please chant:

[ChiefCowpie]

sleeping jiva, if you read those articles and you thought they were about who was the bigger guru and mental speculation and someone trying to displace SP, then you were asleep

[ChiefCowpie]

A Living Sadhu

by Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja

[From Chapter Six of Pariprasna: The Process of Inquiry]

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada always emphasized that he was eternally present in his books, instructions, tapes, and letters. So when you say we should take association of a sadhu can we do that through Srila Prabhupada's books?

Present in His Books

Gour Govinda Swami: If Prabhupada says he is there, then you try to see him, associate with him and listen from him. Do you see Prabhupada? Is he speaking to you?

Devotee: Through his books.

Gour Govinda Swami: Through his books, yes. All sadhus speak through their books. Jiva Goswami, Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and Srila Prabhupada all say that they speak through books.
This is not a new thing. This is our vaisnava procedure. But you should see him. Can you see Bhaktivinode Thakur? Can you see Jiva Goswami ? You may say, "Oh I have read their books, I have their association." That won't help you. You cannot understand what they have said merely by reading their books.Your consciousness is very low, so you cannot understand their words. They are very, very merciful, but you should follow the proper path. If you are intelligent you will understand how they are still here, not only in the form of their books but also they are here. You should see them. Why are you thinking so foolishly? So many books were already there, so why has Srila Prabhupada said this? You are thinking, "We need only to read books. There is no need of association with a sadhu who is physically present. Is there any sadhu? No, there is no sadhu at all."

Seeing is Believing

Your motto is, "Seeing is believing." You cannot see, so you cannot believe. Because you are a conditioned soul your vision is defective. You cannot see a sadhu.
Krsna is there, can you see him? No, you cannot, because you are not endowed with proper vision. First develop the proper vision and then you can see Krsna. Then you can see how a sadhu is there. It is not a fact that sadhus are not present. How is everything going on? How does the sun rise, the wind blow, and Indra give rain? All these things are going on. No sadhu? No Krsna? It's nonsense, foolishness. We are so proud and puffed up. We are indentifying our self as the body, mind and false ego. We think we are very great. So we say "Oh there is no sadhu." We are in the category of identification with the body and mind. We have not come to the beginning of the stage of purity. No!

Devotee: So we have to associate with a living sadhu?

Gour Govinda Swami: Definitely. There is always one there. But he is not a cheap person. Such a person is very rare. If you can get his mercy then you can see him. Otherwise, by your own effort and perception you cannot see him. No, no, no.
You always think that you are drasta, the seer, and that the sadhu is drsta, the one to be seen. Everyone is like this. They think they are the seers. But it is just the reverse. You are to are to be seen and they are the seer! Think this over very deeply. I think you cannot completely understand what I say. We always think that we are the seer and that they are to be seen, but this is not a fact. It is just the reverse. They are the seers and we are to be seen.

Merciful Glance

Devotee: How are we seen by the sadhu by our service?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. The sadhu is the seer. If he showers his mercy upon you, he sees you. If you receive that merciful glance then you are very fortunate. However, you are in the category of bodily consciousness. How can you have it?
Guru is the manifestation of the Supersoul, caitya-guru in the heart. He manifests a body and appears. He knows your heart.

Devotee: I don't quite understand. Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, try to understand. As I told you, just hear patiently. A new bhakta cannot understand it because it is a topic of the highest class. You are in pre-primary class, how can you understand? You are not even in the primary class. How can you understand this topic of the highest class? Just accept the bona fide authorities. That will help you. The teacher says, "Two plus two is four." The primary school student accepts it. If the teacher asks the child, "What is two plus two?" The child will reply, "Two plus two is four." "Why is two plus two four?" " My teacher says." He will answer like this. That means he has accepted authority. This is the only principle in the beginning. How is two plus two four? Why not three or five? That will be explained in a higher mathematics class, not in the beginning. You have to have patience and get a promotion. My guru maharaj says in his purport that the beginning is purity of consciousness. First come to this beginning stage, then gradually other things will come up. You are not in the beginning stage so how will the higher topics come up? This is a very, very subtle and very deep philosophy.
Putting full faith in the sadhu you need only submissively hear --- sravanam, sravanam, sravanam. In that way you can get the mercy of that sadhu. That will help you. Only one thing is required, nothing else --- sravanam, sravanam, sravanam. Just hear. Serve that sadhu, please him, hear submissively, surrender yourself at his lotus feet and submissively ask questions. Out of mercy the sadhu will impart tattva-jnana to you.
This is the only process.
Unless you get association with a living sadhu, what can you do? Will you put some question to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada will answer you? This process is a living thing, it is always there, it is always current. It is not that inquiry was done a certain way in the past and now things are done differently. No! It is an eternal process, pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya.

[ChiefCowpie]

sleeping jiva, and the reason why this is important is that there are three pillars to vaishnava philosophy... "sadhu, sastra and guru"...yes Prahbhupada is in his purports but is Prabhupada right there next to you to instruct you...therefore you must find have the association of a sadhu to elevate your consciousness

[BlackBillBlake]

Chief CowPie: I believe this is a thread about Krishna consciousness, not about who is bigger guru. Many people don't even know who is Krishna -this is too confusing for them and I believe that it turns them off. Srila Prabhupada did a lot for spreading Krishna consciousness, his work is incomparable with anyone in the 20th century. There's no other way to understand Krishna than to chant His Holy Names- not by mental speculation. You don't need to care about who your guru is. It's all Krishna's work. He'll send you the guru you deserve. So please chant:
Too bad then if you end up with one of the phoney ursurper gurus, like Prabhupada's 11 'sucessors'!

[sleeping jiva]

Srila Prabhupada is here! -- At Whose Feet All Masters Sit.

Tonight I began reading 'By His Example,' Gurudas’s new book about Prabhupada. I couldn’t put it down. By 11:30pm, I found myself on page 57, chapter 4. I put the book beside my bed as my eyes were telling me they needed rest. I closed them ready for sleep. I couldn’t sleep, Srila Prabhupada was in my head walking in San Francisco at Stow Lake as Gurudas described in his book. I suddenly had an epiphany: Srila Prabhupada is here! Gadadhara dasa (http://www.krishna.org/?author=Gadadhara dasa) (06-24-04)</STRONG></FONT>



I put the book beside my bed as my eyes were telling me they needed rest. I closed them ready for sleep. I couldn’t sleep, Srila Prabhupada was in my head walking in San Francisco at Stow Lake as Gurudas described in his book.

I suddenly had an epiphany: Srila Prabhupada is here! Remembering a lecture I had read the other day on the Vedabase, he says that this modern technology has become so advanced that you can go from New York to Bombay in 9 hours. But think how fast the mind is. You can go from New York to Vrindavana is less then a second!

Srila Prabhupada is here! By reading his books (http://krishna.tv/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=OB), listening to his lectures (http://krishna.tv/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MP3&Category_Code=AUDIO), watching his films (http://krishna.tv/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DVD-FULL-SET&Category_Code=DVD), reading stories about him, one can become Krishna conscious instantly. He is here instantly.

Everything Srila Prabhupada did when he was physically present was for Krishna. He did everything perfectly. All that he teaches is perfectly from Krishna’s lips.

There is no one that can do what Srila Prabhupada did. This is the first time in history that an old man came to another country and changed the world by teaching real religion.

In another lecture he is explaining about religion. What is religion? Religion is the law of God. So if someone comes to America from London they have to obey the driving laws. They can not just drive on the left hand side of the road. They have to obey the law given by the government.

So religion is the Law of God. Krishna gives you the opportunity to follow his Laws and in this way you can go to Him. If you break the law, just as if you drive on the left side of the road in America, you will be punished. This is nature’s laws, the law of Karma, Gods laws, Krishna’s laws.

Srila Prabhupada has an answer for everything. We are “eternal living spirit souls,” we never die. Srila Prabhupada has come and he truly is Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada means, “at whose feet all masters sit.”

Srila Prabhupada has given us everything and we have to take advantage of it. Human life is meant for God realization. We must take advantage of this human form of life and turn to Srila Prabhupada’s words. Read, listen, watch, and associate with him. He will come to you! He Will!

[sleeping jiva]

BLackBillBlake: As I said, you'll get the guru you deserve. Prabhupada left books behind. Nobody forces you to go there. It was said enough about this topic and my standpoint about it, why do you need to start it all again? Please, you can't even keep your promise about ending in this thread.

[sleeping jiva]

ChiefCowpie: Do you chant? How often? Let us talk about Krishna. This is nothing than politics for me. If you brought some Bhagavadgita verses -that would be interesting to discuss. But this is so boring. I deeply respect everyone, who chants the Holy Names. Yes, I'm a sleeping jiva...:) I'm under spell of maya.

[sleeping jiva]

If you want to know me, then you must know about me from me. You can not speculate about me. [Srila Prabhupada]

[BlackBillBlake]

BLackBillBlake: As I said, you'll get the guru you deserve. Prabhupada left books behind. Nobody forces you to go there. It was said enough about this topic and my standpoint about it, why do you need to start it all again? Please, you can't even keep your promise about ending in this thread.
I'm sorry, but I just think that there is a serious problem here, and you can't just sweep it under the carpet, or be in denial about it. No doubt Prabhupada's books are great, and clearly, many still feel his presence etc, but this doesn't mean that newcomers to Krishna Consciousness are going to realize this - there is a real and present danger that they will be decieved by persons with no spiritual realization who claim to be Prabhupada's true successors - bona fide spiritual masters in the line of disciplic succession - they will see only copies of Prabhupada's books that have been 'doctored' by the said 'gurus'.
After some time their new'guru' may fall down, or worse - and then what?
The truth is that the deeds of these imposters are bringing the whole Krishna movement in the west more and more into disrepute.
So I ask you - what is to be done here?

[YogaLady]

I made the mistake of "looking," cuz once I look here, I had to post after seeing all those bogus posts that appear to those who don't know, as what Prabhupada taught or wanted. I'll try my best not to look again, and avoid all the nonsense gobbly gook. Here's the bottom line.

PRABHUPADA'S LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT

"The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change. Each new executive director for the ISKCON properties must be my initiated disciple."

Its impossible for *his initiated* disciple to be the *new* executive director of the properties unless they are his disciple, and NOT the disciple of his disciple. (Therefore, no iskcon guru.) Why? No one met qualifications. Its in his Will for cryin out loud. No mention of new guru's, no mention of Gaudiya Math, no mention of Sridhara Swami, no mention of Narayana Mahraja, no mention of any of his godbrothers at all, or any iskcon so-called guru. Only one he mentions as guru is him. Stop all this false egalatarian "lets all come together" stuff and recognize to really come together, to honestly be egalatarian, is to stop STEALING from Srila Prabhupada. Its his movement, and not one of his godbrothers loaned a helping hand to him when he asked them. He did the work, now they want to take it away. And those who agree are helping them make this offense.

Why did he say all those things in previous posts? I wont get into it, but for the road, those who aren't use to Vaisnava talk may not fully understand. Those who are, know how to make it mean what they want it to mean. Devotee manners, India's customs, politeness, relationships between him and his godbrothers, etc., are something even the devotees dont fully understand when it comes to the pure devotee (Srila Prabhuapda). We only have our own material experiences to pull from, and this is far different. Therefore I'm gonna stick with what Prabhupada actually ASKED of us to do for him. After all, this is his last Will and Testamony! How much more final of an instruction can there be?!

Additionally --------- >


Tamala Kanea: No one helped you. That's a fact. You asked that...
Prabhupada: Who?
Tamala Kanea:... Tirtha Maharaja for some help, he did not help at all. He would not even give a little place.
Prabhupada: Nobody. Everyone admits." ~ SP Room Conversations, June 17, 77, Vrindavana India

"So any one of my godbrothers cannot help me in this way of book writing because they are unfortunate in the matter of preaching work. They are simply trying to infiltrate our society to so something harmful by their attempt. So please do not have any correspondence with this Purusottama or any of my godbrothers, so-called." ~ SP letter to Karaunasindhu, Bombay, November 9, 75

This doesn't mean we have to dislike them, but shouldn't go the other extreme. Its not our call. It also does not mean, however, that Srila Prabhupada was antagonistic toward his godbrothers. That is material understanding. Prabhupada loved his godbrothers. His complaints, and you can reread and see this is whats going on, has nothing to do with his personal feelings toward them as friends and godbrothers. He cared deeply for them. His complaints were always about their lack of spiriutal qualification. That was his focal point. His personal relationships with each of them, is between him and them. His desier to separate ISKCON from Gaudiya Math remains.

I beg of you all to give up this false egalatarian 'lets all get along' when in truth his godbrothers never had any intention of getting along, but in taking. He was the only one who offered them to 'please lets get along,' come work with me (him), with my world wide movement even, but they never once took him up on that. Therefore please stop helping others to steal what belongs to Srila Prabhupada.

I'll try my best not to look back again, and those so inclined can have free reign to critize me . Nothing I can do about that. I've made the point. Only to please consider, not to help in the handing over of his movement to those he did not wish to have it, as is clear in his Will.

YL

[YogaLady]

(This was suppose to go in the last post and didn't fit. Is therefore the only reason I made a second post. Nohting personal meant by that. Just wanting to show I'm not making anything up and its all coming from Prabhupada, not my 'opinion' but his desire and instructions, even he included the Gaudiya Math problems in his books! Something very permanent.)



Tamala Krsna: Today I was reading a very beautiful section of Caitanya-caritamrta that Krsna comes in the form of the spiritual master. And then that...
Prabhupada: Spiritual master is a revelation of Krsna.
Tamala Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Guru-krsna.
Tamala Krsna: It was mentioning how the initiator spiritual master is the representative of Sri-Sri-Madana-mohana, and the instructing spiritual master is a representative of Sri-Govindadeva. Very nice explanation you gave in the purport.
Prabhupada: As far as possible, I have tried to present. In one place I have criticized my Godbrothers.
Tamala Krsna: Last night?
Prabhupada: No, no, in Caitanya-caritamrta.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah, at the end in one line. We were... When we read that, it was actually relishable, very personal.
Prabhupada: Sridhara Maharaja is little...
Tamala Krsna: He read it?
Prabhupada: I think so.
Tamala Krsna: Did he make any comment?
Prabhupada: He cannot make any comment. These are facts. Two parties there were. One party, to use guru as their instrument for self-aggrandizement, and another party left guru. So both of them are offenders. This Kunja Babu, this Tirtha Maharaja's party, he wanted to enjoy senses through guru. And the Bagh Bazaar party, they left.
Tamala Krsna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: So both of them are severe offenders.
Tamala Krsna: What about Sridhara Maharaja?
Prabhupada: Sridhara Maharaja belonged to the Bagh Bazaar party. And I was living aloof. My Guru Maharaja approved. He said, "It is better that he is aloof from them."
Tamala Krsna: He could understand that his disciples were not...
Prabhupada: No, he was very sorry. At the last stage he was disgusted.
Tamala Krsna: But that... That doesn't mean that your disciples should think also, "I will remain aloof just as our Prabhupada..."
Prabhupada: No, that I have not said. Therefore I used so strong word on the, our Surabhi's action. This was made independently. He has written. He has given photograph. That is not good.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I took that as a good instruction to all of us, your rebuking.
Prabhupada: I told him that "You cannot do so independent. You are doing nice, but not to do in the... You admit." People complained against Hamsaduta. Did you know that?
Tamala Krsna: I'm not sure of the particular incidences, but I've heard general...
Prabhupada: In Germany. In Germany.
Tamala Krsna: The devotees there.
Prabhupada: So many complaints.
Tamala Krsna: Therefore change is good.
Prabhupada: No, you become guru, but you must be qualified first of all. Then you become.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, that kind of complaint was there.
Prabhupada: Did you know that?
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I heard that, yeah.
Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: ...but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall say, "Now you become acarya. You become authorized." I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.
Tamala Krsna: The process of purification must be there.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, must be there. Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that. Amara ajnaya guru hana. "You become guru." (laughs) But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower...
Tamala Krsna: Not rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: Then you'll not be effective. You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to become guru, and a small temple and "guru." What kind of guru? No publication, no preaching, simply bring some foodstuff... My Guru Maharaja used to say, "Joint mess," a place for eating and sleeping. Amar amar ara takana (?)(Bengali): "Joint mess." He said this.
Tamala Krsna: That word "mess," by that word he meant eating, messing, eating?
Prabhupada: Yes. Messing, there is a system. Some clerks, they make a small cooperative hotel. In India there are many.
Tamala Krsna: That I see in South India sometimes... In dharm... I mean, in places like hotels I see.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Men who work, they all come...
Prabhupada: Cooperative effort.
Tamala Krsna: So he called that a joint mess, and he said that some of the disciples were doing that.
Prabhupada: He knew that. What is the use? Tirtha Maharaja's defense was that. "These people..." They were fighting with Tirtha Maharaja in the court that "Tirtha Maharaja was not good." Tirtha Maharaja's only defense was "All right, you want to combine to make a guru. All right, why don't you combine yourself for preaching?"
Tamala Krsna: What was his defense?
Prabhupada: That "You want to work jointly, so why you do not work jointly? You are jointly working to harass me. Why not preach jointly?"
Tamala Krsna: What was their reply?
Prabhupada: No reply.
Tamala Krsna: So it was a good defense.
Prabhupada: Yes. "You have joined together to defeat me. Why don't you preach jointly? What do you want? That I shall also join and we shall jointly preach. Do this. You are divided amongst yourselves, and you have joined together to defeat me." Sridhara Maharaja is the leader.
Tamala Krsna: Of that group.
Prabhupada: Madhava Maharaja also
Tamala Krsna: Madhava Maharaja is.
Prabhupada: For the last forty years they're fighting in the courts. They indirectly wanted me also to join them. "He has got money. If he joins, then our monetary, financial help will be there." That is their...
Tamala Krsna: Sridhara Maharaja. I remember a letter they wrote you in Los Angeles in 1969. You replied them, "Yes, I will join, but since I have preached in eleven-twelfths of the world, eleven of my men will be representatives, and you can put one."
Prabhupada: (laughing) Yes. Yes, according to the area, my representatives are there.
Tamala Krsna: Now there should be all twelve. (Prabhupada laughs)
Prabhupada: Another Godbrother, he asked me fifty thousand rupees to maintain his temple.
Tamala Krsna: How much?
Prabhupada: Fifty thousand. So I said, "Yes, I can give you fifty thousand, but this is mleccha money. You'll be polluted. Best thing is that give. We can maintain. I'll immediately deposit fifty thousand." He has stopped. (laughs) "We are mlecchas. I am the leader of the mlecchas, so my money will pollute you. But if you are feeling difficulty, you hand over the temple to us, and on condition I immediately deposit fifty thousand in the name of the temple."
Tamala Krsna: Then he was not interested. Suddenly his problems were solved. He didn't take the money.
Prabhupada: Money is not mleccha. But when we offer to eat something, we are mleccha.
Tamala Krsna: No one will take... A lot of the men, people, will not take prasadam at our temples for the same reason.
Prabhupada: Now they are taking. And some of them are not. ~ SP Room Conversation, April 22, 1977, Bombay

[YogaLady]

ChiefCowpie: Do you chant? How often? Let us talk about Krishna. This is nothing than politics for me. If you brought some Bhagavadgita verses -that would be interesting to discuss. But this is so boring. I deeply respect everyone, who chants the Holy Names. Yes, I'm a sleeping jiva...:) I'm under spell of maya.

No, he doesn't chant, he just instigates. Hes no Vaisnava. Has no guru, has no connection to ISKCON or the Gaudiya Math. Has no altar with a guru on it to offer to, doesn't follow any of the regulative principles, doesn't believe in any one path, and his mind is all over the place. He's not stupid tho and knows how to get attention put on him and how to keep people upset. Check around the other posts he makes. You can do that by clicking on his name. He makes very NON Vaisnava posts. Some of them are way rude and crude. He is merely a sense enjoyer of the mind, taking pleasure in helping to destroy Prabhuapda's movement and offending the genuine devotees in the process. He mucho enjoys this and hasn't a humble bone in his body. Don't be fooled into thinking he's sincere or cares. He couldn't care less. Its fun for him is all. Read his other posts on different topics and see for yourself.

Am done posting now.

[ChiefCowpie]

Srila Prabhupada and His Godbrothers

Comments are invited (Bvnmtour@cs.com)

SRILA PRABHUPADA AND THE GAUDIYA MATH

By Sridam sakha das

When Srila Prabhupada originally started ISKCON, he was very willing to undertake his mission in co-operation with his godbrothers. However, they were all envious of his success, and neglected all of his requests for help. As if that were not enough, they also did their utmost to disrupt his efforts in whatever way they could, for instance, by poisoning the minds of his disciples against him and reinitiating them. That they acted in the way they did is hardly surprising, in consideration of the fact that they had directly and deliberately disobeyed the instructions of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Against his wishes they elected an acarya after his departure. Not only that, but none of them ever followed his instructions to go and preach in the west. Srila Prabhupada's final instructions to his disciples with regard to his Godbrothers was to have nothing further to do with any of them.

Sounds familiar? During the time that I spent living in a temple, from what I heard from other devotees, this was, more or less, the impression that I had of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers and the Gaudiya math. However, after having done some research on the subject, I began to recognise how complex an issue it was, and that my previous understanding had been simplistic and misinformed.

The reader is no doubt familiar with many of the negative comments Srila Prabhupada had to make about his Godbrothers. However, he praised them on numerous occasions too:

"I am very glad to know that Ananda prabhu is staying with you, please offer my dandavats. He is my old Godbrother, sincere Vaisnava. Please treat him like your father. Do remain in full co-operation." (S.P. letter 6/5/'73)"So if you are actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association...When I was in India, Acyutananda, Ramanuja, and myself, with others, lived with Sridhara Maharaja, so Acyutananda knows him very well. He spared a big house for us and if both of you go there now, it will be very good for your spiritual benefit. Then I will feel that you are safe. Besides that, if you wish to live in India, you can make arrangements for this house so that other of your god-brothers may go there in the future." (Letter to Hrsikesa, 69-01-09)Srila Prabhupada apparently intended his disciples' association with Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja to be of a more long term variety.

In the following, Srila Prabhupada again makes the immense love and respect that he felt for his exalted godbrother very clear. More pointedly, he says that his association with Srila Sridhara Maharaja was arranged by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Krsna in order to help prepare him for the great mission he was later to undertake. However, perhaps most significantly of all, he states that he wanted to make Srila Sridhara Maharaja the head of ISKCON:

"So when we came back to Allahabad, so Ganesa Babu, he introduced me, that "Here is a nice devotee." So Prabhupada immediately replied, "Yes, I have marked him. He does not go away, he hears." This (indistinct), "Yes, I will accept him as disciple." Then I was initiated. In this way our relationship with Gaudiya Matha developed, and gradually as it developed, the other side diminished. Then, there are long history, it will take time, but I had the opportunity of associating with His Holiness. For several years I had the opportunity. Krsna and Prabhupada liked it to prepare me. Sridhara Maharaja lived as a...
Sridhara Maharaja: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: (laughs) ...in my house, some may say, a few years, so naturally we had very intimate talks and he was my good adviser. I took his advice, his instruction very seriously, because from the very beginning I know he's a pure Vaisnava and devotee, and I wanted to associate with him, and try to help him also in so many ways. He also tried to help me, so our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gaudiya Matha, I wanted to organize another organization, making Sridhara Maharaja head." (Room Conversation, Mayapur, March 17, 1973)Unfortunately, the above quote is not included in some, if not all of the Prabhupada databases, but, if the reader is interested, I will happily send them the whole conversation.)

Speaking of his sannyasa guru, Srila Prabhupada says:

"So I am feeling very much obliged to my, this godbrother, that he carried out the wish of my spiritual master and forced me to accept the sannyasa order. This godbrother, H.H. Kesava Maharaja is no more. He has entered Krsna's abode So I wish to pass a resolution of bereavement and send them. And I have composed one verse also in this connection in Sanskrit.....so I did not want to accept this sannyasa order, but this godbrother forced me 'you must.' apayayan mam, he forcefully made me drink this medicine...the Vaisnavas, the spiritual master, they forcefully say 'you drink this medicine.' You see apayayan mam anabhipsu ardham Sri-Kesava-bhakti prajana-nama. So this my Godbrother, his name is Kesava, Bhaktiprajnan Kesava. Krpambudhi. So he did this favour upon me because he was ocean of mercy. So we offer our obeisances to Vaisnava, krpambudhi. Vancha-kalpa-tarubhyas ca krpa-sindhubhya eva ca. The Vaisnavas, the representatives of the Lord, they are so kind. They bring the ocean of mercy for distributing to the suffering humanity. Krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye. So I am offering my respectful obeisances unto this His Holiness, because he forcefully made me adopt this sannyasa order. So he is no more in this world. He has entered Krsna's abode. So I am offering my respectful obeisances along with my disciples...We are writing like this, "Resolved that we the undersigned members and devotees of International Society for Krishna Consciousness Incorporated, in a condolence meeting under the presidency of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, today the 21st of October, 1968, at our Seattle branch, express our profound bereavement on hearing the passing of His Divine Grace Om Visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktiprajnan Kesava Gosvami Maharaja, the sannyasa guru, preceptor of our spiritual master, and on October 6th, 1968, at his headquarter residence in Nabadwip, West Bengal. We offer our respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Sri Srimad Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja with the following verse composed on this occasion by our spiritual master." This verse I have already explained to you. So I wish that you all sign this and I'll send it tomorrow by air mail." (21st October '68, condolence lecture, Seattle) "The cult of Caitanya philosophy is richer than any other, and it is admitted to be the living religion of the day with the potency for spreading as visva-dharma, or universal religion. We are glad that the matter has been taken up by some enthusiastic sages like Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja and his disciples. We shall eagerly wait for the happy days of Bhagavata-dharma, or prema-dharma, inaugurated by the Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu." (Srimad-Bhagavatam: Introduction)"In the same order as Kardama Muni, about one hundred years ago, Thakura Bhaktivinoda also wanted to beget a child who could preach the philosophy and teachings of Lord Caitanya to the fullest extent. By his prayers to the Lord he had as his child Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, who at the present moment is preaching the philosophy of Lord Caitanya throughout the entire world through his bona fide disciples." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 3: Chapter Twenty-two, Text 20 Not only did Srila Prabhupada sometimes praise his godbrothers, but on one occasion even blessed one of his harinama disciples to take diksa from one of them:

"Please accept my humble obeisances at your lotus feet. I understand from the letter of Asita das that he has gone to your place in Jagannatha Puri. He has asked permission from me for taking initiation from you. I have given him my permission and you can initiate him if you like so that he may increase his devotional service there." Letter to: Sripada Madhava Maharaja : 75-01-14 Bombay "If you want to take initiation from Madhava Gosvami Maharaja I have no objection." Letter to: Asita das : 75-01-10 Bombay Nevertheless, despite praising individuals, Srila Prabhupada also made many negative statements about his godbrothers too. In the following he states:

"We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them." (Letter to Rupanuga Maharaja, 74-04-28, Tirupati)

[ChiefCowpie]

However, Srila Prabhupada's final instructions with regard to his godbrothers were very different. Literally days before passing away, he formed the "Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust", one of the purposes of which was to link up again with the Gaudiya Math devotees, and to work with them on a co-operative basis. The statement of purpose for the Trust in this regard, reads as follows:

"In keeping with the spirit of the previous acarya's vision of Gaudiya-Madhva sampradaya, to cement relations with all the sister temples of Gaudiya-Madhva sampradaya under one banner, to solidify preaching the message of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, as desired by His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada and Srila Thakura Bhaktivinoda and all the previous acaryas in this line." (Room Conversation, Vrindaban, October 29, 1977, 771029RC.VRN) Srila Prabhupada did not stop at merely instructing his disciples, but he went so far as to directly involve his own godbrothers, by appointing two of them onto the Trust's five man governing board:

Bhavananda: With bookstand. Prabhupada has formed a trust, the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, and its purpose is to develop Gauda-mandala-bhumi. Prabhupada's one idea is to build this darsana-mandapa at the yoga-pitha. And another is to finish Sridhara Maharaja's darsana-mandapa at his..., like that, to develop the different..., to encourage co-operation between the different Godbrothers in the temples. The members of the trust are myself and Tamala Krsna Maharaja and Giriraja, Svarupa Damodara, myself, Madhava Maharaja and Madhusudana Maharaja. Prabhupada named those members.
Prabhupada: How do you think the idea?
Jayapataka: All of your ideas, Srila Prabhupada, are perfect. I am not someone to offer opinion. But if you ask, I think that actually, especially the yoga-pitha, natha-mandira, that's a very dynamic idea, and in general it must do good.
Prabhupada: We want co-operation.
(Room conversation, Vrndavana, 6 November 1977) Srila Prabhupada was also willing for ISKCON funds to be used to erect buildings on the property of his godbrothers, and even for printing their literature:

Tamala Krsna: Yes, I think the general is already covered by this Mayapura-Vrndavana Trust committee. That's for all of India. And Gauda-mandala-bhumi is especially for encouraging the development of Gaudiya Vaisnavism in that area--Sridhara Maharaja's natha-mandira, this Yoga-pitha Bhaktivedanta Hall. Different buildings. Supposing one of your Godbrothers may have written some manuscript, he has no money. We can print some books for him so he can sell them, like that, works within the Mayapura area.
Prabhupada: That we shall fix up, what to spend.
Tamala Krsna: The Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity trustees would fix that up?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: All right.
So although Srila Prabhupada did make many negative statements about the Gaudiya Math and his godbrothers, he made many positive ones too, and his last words show unequivocally what policy he wanted to be followed.

It can sometimes be quite confusing when an acarya makes seemingly contradictory statements. Why did Srila Prabhupada appear to do so on this particular topic? For the simple reason that, by necessity, acaryas must teach their disciples in terms of time, place and circumstance:

"It is the concern of the acarya to show mercy to the fallen souls. In this connection, desa-kala-patra (the place, the time and the object) should be taken into consideration." (Adi 7.38) "The Vedas instruct us that knowledge must always be considered in terms of desa-kala-patra. Desa means 'circumstances,' kala means 'time,' and patra means 'the object.' We must understand everything by taking these three elements into consideration." (Life Comes from Life: The First Morning Walk April 18, 1973) The principle of changing the divine message out of consideration of desa-kala-patra by the acarya may also take quite extreme forms, such as those practiced by Sankaracarya and Lord Buddha. As a deliberate preaching strategy, they taught false doctrines to their disciples, for the purpose of uplifting them. This principle even applies to vaisnava acaryas too:

"These are the secrets of the acaryas. Sometimes they conceal the real purpose of the vedas and explain the Vedas in a different way. Sometimes they enunciate a different theory just to bring the atheists under their control." Madhya-lila 25.42 Therefore we can understand that Srila Prabhupada's apparently contrary statements about his godbrothers were also part of a necessary preaching strategy. However, he also cautioned us that although in his preaching a vaisnava may make strictly relative statements, that it is nevertheless the responsibility of those hearing him to be careful to extract the true essence of his message:

"Vaisnava who is preaching, it may be in a different way, according to time and place and the party. They have to change something, desa-kala-patra. *But we have to see the essence.*" Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1974 741008SB.MAY "The essence of devotional service must be taken into consideration, and not the outward paraphernalia." Madhya-lila: Chapter Twenty-three, Text 105

As Srila Prabhupada had so many godbrothers, their interaction with him and his disciples was a complex and potentially volatile situation. Certainly, a number of his godbrothers were enviously working against him, and he needed to safeguard his young disciples, many of whom wouldn't have been able to discriminate between the qualified and unqualified. Besides that, he was physically present as their diksa and siksa guru, for which reason there was no need for them to go outside of the society he had created. Therefore, safer for him to say: "none of you see them." Also, as an acarya, it was his duty to criticise and decry those activities of his godbrothers which were deviant, for the sake of teaching the proper standard to his disciples. Again, however, these statements were relative to desa-kala-patra, and cannot be used to definitively portray his ultimate stance towards his godbrothers, when put in perspective with everything else he had to say on the subject. When one reads Srila Prabhupada's definitions of and statements about ISKCON, then it becomes easier to understand why ultimately he was willing to involve his godbrothers within it. According to what he says, ISKCON appears to extend considerably beyond its physical manifestation, i.e. the temples and communities, and their attendant management structures. It is non-sectarian, and is prepared to embrace the world, just as its founder was. The name itself says it all: a society for Krsna consciousness. To the extent that you're Krsna conscious, you belong:

[ChiefCowpie]

"ISKCON (the International Society of Krishna Consciousness) is a non-lucrative organisation, whose purpose is to promote the well-being of human society by drawing its attention to God. We are a non-sectarian society, and our members include people from Christian, Jewish and Moslem as well as Hindu faiths. The aim of ISKCON is not to found a new religious sect, but to invoke the living entity's dormant love of God, and thus provide the human society of all faiths with a common platform of clear theistic knowledge and practice. Members of ISKCON may retain their own respective religious faiths, as ISKCON is meant to establish a clear, practical common formulation of the common ideal of all theists, and to defeat the unnecessary dogmatic wranglings that now divide and invalidate the theistic camp. This common ideal of theism is to develop love of God." (Letter to: ****** : 68-08-24 Montreal)

"A devotee sees all living entities with spiritual vision and does not discriminate on the platform of the bodily concept of life. Such qualities develop only in the association of devotees. Without the association of devotees, one cannot advance in Krsna consciousness. Therefore, we have established the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Factually, whoever lives in this society automatically develops Krsna consciousness." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twelve, Text 37

"This Krsna consciousness movement is a transcendental science, and there is no room for jealousy. This movement is meant for the paramahamsas who are completely free from all jealousy (paramam nirmatsaranam)." Nectar of Instruction: Text Six

"The Hare Krsna movement is meant for those who are serious about understanding this science. There's no question of our being some sectarian group. No. Anyone can join. Students in college can be admitted. You may be a Christian, you may be a Hindu, you may be a Muhammadan--it doesn't matter. The Krsna consciousness movement admits anyone who wants to understand the science of God." (Science of Self Realization: Chapter One :Learning the Science of the Self)

"Just by pouring water on the root of a tree, one nourishes its trunk and all of its branches, fruits and flowers, and just by supplying food to the stomach, one satisfies all the limbs of the body. Similarly, by worshiping Lord Visnu one can satisfy everyone." Krsna consciousness is not a sectarian religious movement. Rather, it is meant for all-embracing welfare activities for the world. One can enter this movement without discrimination in terms of caste, creed, religion or nationality. If one is trained to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, who is theorigin of visnu-tattva, one can become fully satisfied and perfect in all respects." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 8: Chapter Five, Text 49

"Bhagavata-dharma has no contradictions. Conceptions of "your religion" and "my religion" are completely absent from bhagavata-dharma. Bhagavata-dharma means following the orders given by the Supreme Lord, Bhagavan, as stated in Bhagavad-gita: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. God is one, and God is for everyone." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 6: Chapter Sixteen, Text 41 "Sun is neither Indian nor American. Similarly, God, Krsna, He's neither for Indian or for... He is for everyone. Sarva yonisu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayo yah, tasam mahad-yonir brahma aham bija-pradah pita. He's the father of everyone, not only human beings, but in the animals, the trees, the aquatics, everyone, all living entities. Mamaivamso jiva...This is universal. This is... This Krsna consciousness movement is therefore universal, real universal." Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1972 721126BG.HYD

Srila Prabhupada's non-sectarian stance is also demonstrated in the following, wherein he implies that pure transcendental association is not confined solely within the four walls of the ISKCON institution:

"There are many societies and associations of pure devotees, and if someone with just a little faith begins to associate with such societies, his advancement to pure devotional service is rapid." (Nectar of Devotion: Chapter Nineteen :Devotional Service in Pure Love of God, p.14) Although Srila Prabhupada invited his godbrothers to work with his disciples in 1977, it was by no means the first time that he had come up with the idea:

"So far as I am concerned, I am always for co-operation. If we can co-operate, we can do tremendous service for Lord Caitanya in the matter of propagating the mission of Lord Caitanya very nicely. I am prepared to co-operate with the Gaudiya mission wholeheartedly. Soon you can negotiate about our amalgamation on a co-operatively basis, it will be great service to Srila Prabhupada." Letter to Dr Syamasundardas Brahmacari, 5-9-69 "Best thing is that all we Godbrothers work together. Then the criticism will stop, otherwise even we join together, criticism will go on. So this has been going on for the last 24 years, but everyone of us is doing his best keeping Lord Caitanya in the center. We should be satisfied so much." Letter to: Jayapataka Maharaja : 71-02-23 Gorakhpur

Since Srila Prabhupada saw ISKCON as "a non-sectarian society" whose members included Christians, Jews, Moslems and Hindus, who, moreover, were permitted to "retain their own respective religious faiths", then it is small wonder that he was willing to accommodate his own godbrothers, who were so qualified.

It is an often over-looked fact that the number of Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers instrumental in the break up of the Gaudiya Math was very small. When Srila Prabhupada denounces "the Gaudiya Math", he is by no means making a blanket condemnation of every single disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, of whom there were 60,000. In the following he explains:

"In the beginning, during the presence of Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya Astottara-sata Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada, all the disciples worked in agreement; but just after his disappearance, they disagreed. One party strictly followed the instructions of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, but another group created their own concoction about executing his desires. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, at the time of his departure, requested all his disciples to form a governing body and conduct missionary activities co-operatively. He did not instruct a particular man to become the next acarya. But just after his passing away, his leading secretaries made plans, without authority, to occupy the post of acarya, and they split in two factions over who the next acarya would be. Consequently, both factions were asara, or useless, because they had no authority, having disobeyed the order of the spiritual master. Despite the spiritual master's order to form a governing body and execute the missionary activities of the Gaudiya Matha, the two unauthorized factions began litigation that is still going on after forty years with no decision." (Adi-lila Chapter Twelve, Text 8) So Srila Prabhupada clearly says that it was the "leading secretaries" who disobeyed Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and who ultimately "split in two factions over who the next acarya would be", beginning "litigation that is still going on after forty years with no decision." Elsewhere Srila Prabhupada has explained who the leaders of these two factions were, namely Bhakti Vilas Tirtha Maharaja of Sri Chaitanya Math, and Ananta Vasudeva of Bagh Bazaar Math. So much for the leading secretaries. But what about everyone else? Srila Prabhupada plainly says that they: "strictly followed the instructions of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura". As for Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's instruction to preach in the west, this was to Srila Prabhupada in particular. Srila Prabhupada was a unique acarya who was especially chosen, empowered and sent by the Lord to turn the tide of kali yuga. This service was particularly meant for him, and no-one else could have accomplished it. However, just because the disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati did not achieve such large scale preaching triumphs as their illustrious godbrother, for this reason alone we cannot therefore assume that every one of them was necessarily less dear to Krsna:

[ChiefCowpie]

"Krsna becomes obliged to the loving spirit of the devotee and not exactly to the service rendered. No one can serve Krsna completely. He is so complete and self-sufficient that He has no need of any service from the devotee. It is the devotee's attitude of love and affection for Krsna that makes Him obliged." Nectar of Devotion: Chapter Twenty-two: Qualities of Krsna Further Explained Rather, we should remember that they "strictly followed" their spiritual master's instructions.



What to speak of those who did, Srila Prabhupada even declared those who did not to be transcendentally situated, going so far as to compare their disputes to those that happen in the party of Srimati Radharani:

"Even amongst our God-brothers we have misunderstanding but none of us is astray from the service of Krishna. My Guru Maharaja ordered us to execute his mission combinedly. Unfortunately we are now separated. But none of us have stopped preaching Krishna Consciousness. Even if there was misunderstanding amongst the God-brothers of my Guru Maharaja none of them deviated from the transcendental loving service of Krishna. The idea is that provocation and misunderstanding may remain between one man and another. But our staunch faith in Krishna Consciousness may not allow any material disruption. Please therefore try to be sympathetic with any person even if they differ. The only qualification we have to scrutinize is if one is acting in Krishna Consciousness as far as one is able to do it. This personal grudge is not inhuman and as I have told many times, that individualism is the cause of personal misunderstanding. When such individualism is employed in the center of Krishna there is no harm even if there is personal misunderstanding. Personal misunderstanding exists even in the higher levels. There is competition of loving Krishna even in the party of Srimati Radharani." Letter to: Brahmananda : 67-11-18 Calcutta

"So far as your question about controversy amongst the disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja, that is a fact. But this controversy is not material. Just like in a national program, different political parties are sometimes in conflict and make propaganda against each other, but their central point is always service to the country. Similarly, amongst the disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati there may be some controversy, but the central point is how to preach the mission of His Divine Grace. If the central point is fixed up then there is no harm in such controversy. Every individual being must have his opinion; that is the significance of individuality, but all such differences of opinions must coincide in Krishna. In the battlefield of Kuruksetra were Arjuna and Bhisma who were fighting with one another, and because Krishna was on the side of Arjuna, sometimes Bhisma pierced the body of Krishna also with arrows. But still they remained the greatest devotees of the Lord, and Krishna accepted the friendship of Arjuna just as He accepted the inimical arrows of Bhisma in the same loving spirit." Letter to: Mandali Bhadra : 69-07-28 Los Angeles

"Among Vaisnavas there may be some difference of opinion due to everyone's personal identity, but despite all personal differences, the cult of Krsna consciousness must go on. We can see that under the instructions of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja began preaching the Krsna consciousness movement in an organized way within the past hundred years. The disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja are all Godbrothers, and although there are some differences of opinion, and although we are not acting conjointly, every one of us is spreading this Krsna consciousness movement according to his own capacity and producing many disciples to spread it all over the world." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-eight, Text 31 "Disunity between individual souls is so strong within this material world that even in a society of Krsna consciousness, members sometimes appear disunited due to their having different opinions and leaning toward material things. Actually, in Krsna consciousness there cannot be two opinions. There is only one goal: to serve Krsna to one's best ability. If there is some disagreement over service, such disagreement is to be taken as spiritual. Those who are actually engaged in the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead cannot be disunited in any circumstance." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Thirty, Text 8

Srila Prabhupada's relationship with his godbrothers is of an inconceivable nature, and very easy to misconstrue. For instance he described Srila Madhava Maharaja in the following way:



"...it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on." (Letter to Rupanuga Maharaja, 74-04-28, Tirupati) Nevertheless, a year later he allowed him to initiate his harinama disciple, and in 1977 appointed him as a governing board member on the charity trust which he had created. Srila Prabhupada may have criticised his godbrothers, but he also warned his disciples that they did not have the right to do the same. Rather, any disciple should respect the godbrothers of his guru:



"one should respect one's spiritual master's Godbrothers as one respects one's spiritual master." Adi-lila: Chapter Five, Text 147 Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati also warns of the danger of getting involved in the transcendental disputes between great vaisnavas, and taking sides:



"Those, whose judgement is made of mundane stuff, being unable to enter into the spirit of the all-loving controversies among pure devotees, due to their own want of unalloyed devotion, are apt to impute to the devotees their own defects of partisanship and opposing views." Sri Brahma samhita p.72 If pure devotees differ, then it is for their own inconceivable and transcendental reasons. It is certainly not done out of sectarian prejudice. Therefore, to project such motives onto Srila Prabhupada, by using his statements in an attempt to inculcate an attitude of prejudice in the minds of the innocent and impressionable against all Gaudiya math devotees is dishonest and duplicitous. One who does this certainly misrepresents Srila Prabhupada.



In the pages that precede this one, we have proven conclusively that Srila Prabhupada was not antagonistic to his godbrothers and their followers, and that moreover he wanted his own disciples to fully co-operate with them. However, even if we had not done this, it would still not give any more justification to the propagation of sectarian dogma against them. Such behaviour is avaisnava. As can be seen from a previous quote, Srila Prabhupada held his godbrother and sannyasa guru Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja in very high esteem. The same can be said of Srila Kesava Maharaja's own disciple, Srila Narayana Maharaja. Srila Prabhupada talked to him before passing away, of his great desire that all the disciples and grand disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati "work conjointly":

[ChiefCowpie]

In the pages that precede this one, we have proven conclusively that Srila Prabhupada was not antagonistic to his godbrothers and their followers, and that moreover he wanted his own disciples to fully co-operate with them. However, even if we had not done this, it would still not give any more justification to the propagation of sectarian dogma against them. Such behaviour is avaisnava.

As can be seen from a previous quote, Srila Prabhupada held his godbrother and sannyasa guru Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja in very high esteem. The same can be said of Srila Kesava Maharaja's own disciple, Srila Narayana Maharaja. Srila Prabhupada talked to him before passing away, of his great desire that all the disciples and grand disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati "work conjointly":

"Srila Prabhupada (Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati) said that we should preach in Europe, America. That was his desire, and his other desire was that we all work together jointly to preach".
"Yes, that is right" said Narayana Maharaja.
"I didn't waste a single moment" said Srila Prabhupada "I tried my best, and it has been successful to some extent".
Srila Prabhupada's voice was choked with emotion.
"If we work conjointly" he continued, "then as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said prthivite...sankirtana has great possibilities. My life is coming to an end. It is my desire that you all forgive me for my mistakes..."
..."Whatever instruction you give me" said Narayana Maharaja "I will follow with absolute sincerity. I consider you my guru."

Narayana Maharaja said that what Srila Prabhupada had created should be protected, and it was everyone's duty to do so. He pledged to help in whatever way he could. Regarding Srila Prabhupada's asking his godbrothers for forgiveness, Narayana Maharaja said "we never thought that you did anything wrong. On the other hand, you bless us, we need it. You never did any wrong. If someone is offended by your actions, that is his fault."

After a pause, Narayana Maharaja spoke again, this time referring to Srila Prabhupada's disciples. "They should be told that they should never get motivated by their own self-interest" he said. "They should make your mission successful."

Srila Prabhupada turned his head slowly, looking over the devotees as they gathered in more closely. Then slowly he lifted his hand, as if to call them to attention, and said "Do not fight among yourselves, I have given direction in my books." He then lowered his hand. (Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta, Vol 6, p.399-401)

Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayana Maharaja spent much time in each other's association before Srila Prabhupada departed for the west. They first met in 1947. When Srila Prabhupada received sannyasa from Srila Kesava Maharaja, Srila Narayana Maharaja performed the fire yajna, and made Srila Prabhupada's danda. When Srila Prabhupada had started ISKCON, Srila Narayana Maharaja sent him mrdangas, karatalas, books, tilak, pictures, Deities, japa mala, clothing, harmonium, pera (a sweet) etc etc. Throughout the time that Srila Prabhupada was preaching in the west, he frequently contacted Srila Narayana Maharaja, who assisted him in many ways:

"Please offer my obeisances to Srimad Narayana Maharaja. I have not heard from him in a long time. Please request him to find out a large piece of land perhaps with a house, between Mathura and Vrndavana, for purchasing." (S.P. letter 26/7/'70) Srila Prabhupada in fact wrote hundreds of letters to Srila Narayana Maharaja, most of which were unfortunately lost while in the care of ISKCON. However, from the ones which remain, a booklet has been compiled which is now available for purchase. From these few letters that we do have, the intimacy and appreciation which Srila Prabhupada felt for Srila Narayana Maharaja is very evident:

"Our relationship is certainly based on spontaneous love. That is why there is no chance of us forgetting one another. By the mercy of Guru and Gauranga may everything be auspicious for you. This is my constant prayer. >From the first time I saw you I have been your constant well-wisher. At his first sight of me, Srila Prabhupada also saw me with such love. It was in my very first darsana of Srila Prabhupada that I learned how to love" Letter from Srila Prabhupada 28th September 1966

"Because in all Gaudiya Mathas, I think that you are the real guru-sevaka, so I always correspond with you and I always give my full love and affection to you." "If I was not thinking like this and putting so much trust in you, I would never have sent you my key and my money. I have so much faith and love for you." Letter from Srila Prabhupada, New York, May 17th 1967

Srila Prabhupada entrusted Srila Narayana Maharaja with the great honour and responsibility of putting his body into samadhi. After Srila Prabhupada's disappearance, when his sons tried to stage a take-over bid of the ISKCON assets, from morning to evening for days, Srila Narayana Maharaja tirelessly testified on behalf of ISKCON in the Bombay courts.

Srila Prabhupada also specifically asked Srila Narayana Maharaja to guide his disciples in his physical absence, and to teach them the siddhanta of Gaudiya Vaisnavism as taught by Srila Rupa and Raghunath das Goswamis.

================================================== ===========If anyone would like to correspond with the author, please write to Bvnmtour@cs.com ================================================== ===========

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[sleeping jiva]

BlackBillBlake: I totally agree with you. I'm not using those words in that way. I said you get the guru you deserve, therefore be faithful in Krishna and don't fall for bogus gurus. Read Prabhupada's books in their original form at http://www.asitis.com for example and that is sufficient. Prabhupada is there. Everybody think for yourself, don't fall for easy ways. There is movement of ritviks, who are truely devoted to Prabhupada. Yoha Lady sent a lot links about it. Of course, it's totally ignorant to sweep int under the carpet. Sorry, but instead of attacking me, you don't see how Chief CowPie is propaganding those same gurus. That's why I was so upset. Please ChiefCOwPie, nobody is interested in your posts. It leads to no debate...Please be tolerant and leave us alone, your ignorance make a great confusion.

[ChiefCowpie]

The Reality of Guru-Parampara and the Myth of "The Final Order"

Part one of a series of essays
by Tridandi Swami Bhaktivedanta Nemi [previously Jnana dasa (ACBSP)]



The following paper is the second in a series of articles examining some serious (indeed fatal) weaknesses in the Ritvik scenario, and pointing out some essential aspects of guru-tattva. It is meant for those who are trying to make sense of the current ISKCON GBC / Ritvik/ Gaudiya Matha polemic. [Part Two (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_2.html) Part Three (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_3.html) Part Four (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_4.html)]

Part 1: The "henceforward" bluff

The Ritviks say that there is no further need for living spiritual masters, because Srila Prabhupada has said that everyone should take initiation from him for the next ten thousand years, and all future devotees will be his direct disciples. This directly contradicts everything that Srila Prabhupada has written and taught about disciplic succession. In a gospel called "The Final Order", one of the chief Ritvik prophets acknowledges that the alleged Ritvik system is "totally unique" (i.e. devoid of sastric basis), and then proceeds to explain the Ritvik logic in some detail.

The Ritvik case rests on the letter written by Srila Prabhupada's secretary on July 9th, 1977. The letter names 11 senior disciples who were to act as Srila Prabhupada's representatives, and then states, "… Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple." Ritviks say that this word "henceforward" means that, regardless of Srila Prabhupada's physical departure, the system should be continued indefinitely, for the duration of the Krsna consciousness movement.

We can evaluate this theory using simple rules that Srila Prabhupada has given in various places in his books to help us distinguish between truth, illusion, and falsehood. We will concentrate on four of these in particular: (1) "Tell the truth"; (2) "Take the direct meaning"; (3) "Understand through sastra, not independent logic"; (4) "Support and maintain the disciplic succession."

Rule 1 is "Tell the truth": "Satyam. This word means that one should not distort the truth for some personal interest." (1) The commonsense understanding of the "henceforward" letter is that the system whereby Srila Prabhupada initiated by proxy should continue "for the time being," but obviously not after his physical departure. It clearly does not make sense to say that the word "henceforward" in this letter means "for the next ten thousand years", because it is nonsense to say, "Temple Presidents may for the next ten thousand years send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple." The "eleven representatives" obviously would not survive for ten thousand years. In fact, two have already passed away and many have already fallen down.

The Ritviks deny this commonsense understanding. The author of Final Order (henceforward referred to as AFO) says, "There is no example, either in Srila Prabhupada's 86 recorded uses, nor in the entire history of the English language, where the actual word 'henceforward' has ever meant: 'Every time period until the departure of a person who issued the order'".(2) This statement is quite false, for Srila Prabhupada himself used the word in the limited sense that AFO denies: "Henceforward you send the checks direct to me." (3) "Please write to me occasionally and as Gopala is not accustomed to reply promptly I shall henceforward write to you." (4) Srila Prabhupada also uses the word "henceforth" (which is defined as a synonym of "henceforward") in the same way: "Henceforth, all money sent to me should be sent directly to me;" (5) "[H]enceforth, as long as I am away from America and Canada…" (6)

For devotees in general, to deny this use of the word "henceforward" would indicate lack of knowledge. However, AFO claims to have studied Srila Prabhupada's use of the word "henceforward", as well as the use of the word throughout history. In his case, then, it appears to be an astonishing misrepresentation of the truth. He is directly obscuring and denying Srila Prabhupada's own clear use of words. Since he is not following Srila Prabhupada's instruction, "Tell the truth", it would not be safe to belong to a spiritual movement that depends on his teachings.

In less than ¼ of the instances on FOLIO does the word "henceforward" actually refer to an indefinite period into the future. Six times Srila Prabhupada uses the word "henceforward" to refer specifically to his own duration of life, e.g. "[H]enceforward I am adding the synonyms myself," (7) and, "I will be sending further tapes henceforward." (8) It is clear that after Srila Prabhupada's physical departure he will not in any normal sense be adding synonyms, or sending tapes.

Srila Prabhupada often used the word "henceforward" to clearly imply a set and limited time-frame. A particularly strong example is, "Anyway, rest assured that your son will not be initiated in brahmanahood at least for one year henceforward …" (9) 41 out of about 89 instances of the word (almost half of them) specifically referred to the lifetime of a particular individual: e.g. "In case you think your salary insufficient, henceforward it will be doubled." "You can chant on their beads henceforward" and "I pray Krishna that you may live henceforward happily as a householder." In 15 other instances, the word "henceforward" refers to specific, temporary, practical arrangements in a particular context, especially banking and printing.

Srila Prabhupada uses the word "henceforward" twice in his books to mean "within this section of this book", and it is used in the same sense in the Introduction to the VedaBase. With damning inconsistency, AFO himself uses the word "henceforward" in the same sense in FO: "… the GBC's most recent official handbook on initiation … (to be referred to henceforward as GII)…" (10) This is in spite of his statement that "henceforward" only implies "for an indefinite period" and has no other meaning.

Srila Prabhupada uses the word "henceforth" (synonymous with "henceforward") in the same way that he uses the word "henceforward". Of 15 instances in FOLIO, only 1 refers to an indefinite period into the future. 8 refer to the lifetime of a particular individual, including 2 referring to Srila Prabhupada himself (e.g.); 4 instances refer to specific practical arrangements in a particular context; and 1 refers to the specific context of a particular document.

SP was precise and correct in his use of the English language, and his use of the word "henceforward" (and its synonym "henceforth") follows the dictionary pattern. The Oxford English Dictionary (full version) defines "henceforward" as "From this time forward; henceforth", and gives several instances of the word being used within a specifically limited context: "THEY WERE FRIENDS HENCEFORWARD AS LONG AS GUIDO'S LIFE LASTED" (emphasis added) and "From henceforward for 1500 verses … we hear nothing more of this second person." This means that the word may be used to mean "within the present context", and specifically "within the lifetime of the person or people involved", as well as "from here on indefinitely". The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary illustrates the use of the word "henceforth" with an example that clearly refers to the lifetime of the person concerned: "But that resource would henceforth be denied him."

It is clear that the word "henceforward" may mean "from this time onwards WITHIN THE LIMITED CONTEXT IN WHICH IT IS USED". The idea that it necessarily means "more or less forever" is simply wishful thinking that has grown up in the Ritvik community and has never been checked.

Srila Prabhupada used the word "henceforward" (and its synonym "henceforth") to refer to (a) activities and situations within a limited period of time, (b) temporary practical arrangements, and (c) the lifetime of a particular individual (including himself). This supports the obvious conclusion that the so-called Ritvik arrangement should cease on Srila Prabhupada's departure, or even earlier.

AFO denies that his case depends on the word "henceforward". He says that the "henceforward" letter, being the last written instruction on initiation, supersedes all other letters and teachings. But, as we will see, the actual instruction in the letter is not to develop a new and unprecedented system of disciplic succession that flatly contradicts all of SP's previous instructions. Nor is there any authority for AFO's concocted rule that the last instruction cancels out everything else.

References

(1) BG 16.2, purport; (2) FO, p. 11; (3) Letter to Gopala Krsna: 2 February, 1970; (4) Letter to Sally: 6 November, 1965; (5) Letter to Labangalatika: 14 March, 1970; (6) Letter to Kirtanananda: 5 January, 1973; (7) Letter to: Radhavallabha: 20 October, 1975; (8) Letter to Giriraja: 5 July, 1969; (9) Letter: 27 May, 1969; (10) FO, p.3. [Continue to Part Two (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_2.html)]

[ChiefCowpie]

The "Henceforward" Bluff: Admissions

Part Two of a series of essays entitled
The Reality of Guru-Parampara and the Myth of "The Final Order"
by Tridandi Swami Bhaktivedanta Nemi [previously Jnana dasa (ACBSP)

The following paper is the second in a series of articles examining some serious (indeed fatal) weaknesses in the Ritvik scenario, and pointing out some essential aspects of guru-tattva. It is meant for those who are trying to make sense of the current ISKCON GBC / Ritvik/ Gaudiya Matha polemic. [Part One (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_1.html) Part Three (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_3.html) Part Four (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_4.html).]

Part 2: Adjustments by IRM

In my previous article I challenged IRM on their misinterpretation of the word "henceforward" in Srila Prabhupada's letter of July 9th. Specifically, they were falsely claiming that the word always and necessarily means 'from now onwards', implying an indefinite period. This false claim fuelled their propaganda that their Ritvik system should be continued after Srila Prabhupada's physical departure, and for the duration of ISKCON.

Having been challenged on their misinformation about the meaning of the word "henceforward", IRM has now backed away to a more conservative position. Therefore we agree fully with JD [abbreviation for Jnanadasa, my previous name] that sometimes, in some circumstances the word could indeed apply for just a limited time period. …. [W]e fully acknowledge that in many instances the word 'henceforward' can mean for a limited time.

As far as I know, this is the first time that they have made such an admission. At any rate, this information is certainly not available in The Final Order (TFO). In other words, IRM was not honest enough to raise this possibility until someone checked their statements and confronted them with the truth. We should note that their new statement, [[We FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE that in MANY INSTANCES…]] flatly contradicts the categorical statement in TFO that "henceforward" has "only one meaning", and only ever means "from now onwards".

Having acknowledged the new perspective on the word "henceforward", IRM still goes back to the position stated in TFO: [[We say that: 'There is no example, either in Srila Prabhupada's 86 recorded uses, nor in the entire history of the English language, where the actual word 'henceforward' has ever meant: 'Every time period until the departure of a person who issued the order'.]]

IRM's position here is false. In the first place, Srila Prabhupada himself used the word "henceforward" in precisely the sense that TFO denies, i.e. in instructions that could only be followed during his own physical lifetime, e.g. "Please write to me occasionally and as Gopala is not accustomed to reply promptly I shall henceforward write to you."[1] "Henceforward write in [the] English language."[2] "Henceforward you send the checks direct to me, because most probably I am going to close the account in Montreal."[3] "Henceforth, all money sent to me should be sent directly to me."[4]

The second reason that IRM's restated position is false is that there is no need for such a tortuous condition as "Every time period until the departure of a person who issued the order". It is enough to show that the word is often used in LIMITED contexts such as a particular person's lifetime. Srila Prabhupada wrote in one letter, "Anyway, rest assured that your son will not be initiated in brahmanahood at least for one year henceforward …"[5] This and many other statements by Srila Prabhupada obviously invalidate the false claim in TFO that "henceforward" has "only one meaning", and only ever means "from now onwards".

In my previous article, I stated, "In less than ¼ of the instances on FOLIO does the word "henceforward" actually refer to an indefinite period into the future." IRM now responds, [[Maybe so, and the July 9th directive is one such order….]] How do they know that? What divine authority do they have for such an assertion? Here is strong evidence that "the July 9th directive" is NOT "one such order". In 1972, Srila Prabhupada gave an instruction that was almost identical to the July 9th "henceforward" letter. In this