hare krishna

[ChiefCowpie]

At that time, the donated land was a wild jungle full of mosquitoes, snake and scorpions. It was so far from the city center that even during the daytime people were scared to visit out of fear of dacoits. But Srila Gaura Govinda Swami, considering the desire of Srila Prabhupada his life and soul, was undaunted and worked with unwavering determination to fulfill it. Sometimes residing in the storeroom of a tea dealer and even sometimes sharing a small hut with the road construction workers, he began translating Srila Prabhupada’s books into Oriya as he had been instructed.

Spreading Krishna consciousness, Srila Gaura Govinda Swami would visit house after house, office after office, in and around Bhubaneswar, sometimes walking sometimes riding on the carriage rack of a bicycle peddled by a local student, who later became his dear disciple, Sacinandana dasa. In this way he collected some small donations and with his own hands constructed a thatched hut on the donated property.

In early 1977 Srila Prabhupada came to Bhubaneswar. Although arrangements had been made for Srila Prabhupada to stay comfortably in the government state guest house, Srila Prabhupada at once rejected this proposal. He said, “I will only stay where my disciple child Gaura Govinda has built a mud hut for me.”Srila Prabhupada stayed in Bhubaneswar for seventeen days, during which he laid the foundation stone of the temple-to-be on the auspicious occasion of Lord Nityananda’s appearance day. This was Srila Prabhupada’s last founded project.

In 1991, after sixteen years of determined endeavors, Srila Gaura Govinda Swami fulfilled the instruction of his spiritual master with the opening of a magnificent temple of Sri Sri Krishna-Balarama which now attracts thousands of people! to Krishna consciousness. Srila Gaura Govinda Swami said “I have opened a ‘crying school’ here in Bhubaneswar. Unless we cry for Krishna, we cannot get his mercy.” This was the message he preached so vigorously all over the world during the last ten years of his manifest pastimes.

Although Srila Gaura Govinda Swami was always meek and humble in his personal dealings, in his classes on Srimad-bhagavatam he would roar like a lion, smashing the pride and cutting the misconceptions from the hearts of his disciples. Sometimes he would read an apparently basic philosophical statement from Prabhupada’s purports. Then he would laugh like a child and say, “Here the topic of krishna-prema comes up, but it requires further explanation.” Then he would astound the devotees by giving more and more profound explanations of the same sentence for two or three hours. On one such occasion he said, “Look, Krishna is laughing at me because I am trying to completely describe this topic, which is unlimited.”

Srila Gaura Govinda Swami’s knowledge of scripture was formidable. He would substantiate everything he said with evidence from all over the Vedic literature. Sometimes he would question a disciple and if the disciple could not answer with reference to the scriptures, Srila Gaura Govinda Swami would at once exclaim, “He is a cheater. Don’t be a crooked person. A Vaishnava quotes authority.”

On February 9th, 1996, the holy appearance day of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, two senior devotees requested an appointment to see Srila Gaura Govinda Swami. They had never spoken with him before, but they had become eager to hear from him after reading some of his books. As if by providential arrangement, they entered his room at 6.00 p.m. and submissively inquired, "Why did Caitanya Mahaprabhu stay in Jagannatha Puri?" He laughed with delight and began to explain the confidential significance of Mahaprabhu's pastimes. In anser to this question he lovingly described the pain of separation felt by Radha and Krishna when Krishna was away from Vrindavana. He had often narrated this moving pastime as recorded in Chapter Eight of this great work, "The Embankment of Separation". Enchanting all the devotees in his room with the nectarean topics of Krishna, he gradually unfolded the pastime to the point where Radha and Krishna were finally united after Their long separation. He described how Krishna became so ecstatic upon seeing Radharani that He manifested a form with big round eyes, known as Lord Jagannatha. With a choked voice he said, "Then the eyes of Krishna fell upon the eyes of Radharani. Eye-to-Eye union." Overwhelmed with love for Radha and Krishna, he apologized with folded hands, "Please excuse me, I cannot speak". In a barely audible voice he gave his final instruction: "Nama Koro! Nama Koro! (Chant the holy name)" All the devotees began to chant as their spiritual master lay back on his bed, breathing very slowly and deeply. A servant nearby placed a picture of Gopal Jiu [his childhood deity] in his hand. Then, gazing lovingly at the picture of his worshipable deity, Srila Gaura Govinda Swami called out, "Gopal!" and departed for the spiritual sky to be united with his beloved Lord.

Every day before Srimad-Bhagavatam class, Srila Gaura Govinda Swami would sing a song he had learned as a boy. Now his prayer was fulfilled.

paramananda he madhava
padungaluchi makaranda

se-makaranda pana-kari
anande bolo 'hari hari'

harinka name vandha vela
pari karive caka-dola

se-caka-dolanka-payare
mana-mo rahu nirantare

mana mo nirantare rahu
'ha-krishna' boli jiva jau

'ha-krishna' boli jau jiva
mote udhara radha-dhava mote udhara radha-dhava
mote udhara radha-dhava

"O supremely blissful Madhava! The nectar is coming from Your lotus feet. Drinking that nectar, I blissfully sing 'Hari! Hari!' With the name of Hari I am binding a raft on which Lord Jagannatha will ferry me across this ocean of material existence. My mind always remains at the lotus feet of that Lord Jagannatha who has very large round eyes. In this way, I call out "Ha Krishna!" and give up my life. O husband of Radharani, please deliver me."The sadhu never speaks theoretically.


Return tohttp://www.bvml.org/grfx/bml_logo.gif (http://www.bvml.org/index.htm)

[ChiefCowpie]

Personality Cultism is Anti Vaishnava

by Sridam Sakha Das


Ever since the early nineties, papers by both official GBC sources and independent individuals have been written, giving a multitude of reasons as to why it is not a good idea to go and hear from our spiritual master Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaja. Such papers have always been difficult to counter, since accusations and criticisms are always easier to make than to give the necessary exhaustive replies to. Our experience is that any inchoate refutation soon threatens to assume the alarming dimensions of an epic.

Since it is not practical or possible to try to refute all the challenges of such detractors in one fell swoop, we will start instead by addressing a misconception which seems to be common to them all. It is the most ingrained and deep rooted, and upon which all their other fallacies find their basis.

The misconception in question is the premise on the part of the authors that Srila Prabhupada is their sole authority and reference point, and that the relative standards which he set for ISKCON should be continued indefinitely.

For instance, in his paper of June '97 Badrinarayana prabhu states:

"Srila Prabhupada clearly intended the standards he established for the philosophy and practice of Krsna consciousness to remain as the norm for ISKCON for the next ten thousand years."

Similarly, in his recent paper "So many questions", Datta prabhu, after claiming to "fully and unconditionally" accept Srila Prabhupada as his "diksa guru siksa guru and Acarya" states: "The standards for ISKCON have been eternally defined by Srila Prabhupada, its Founder-Acharya. NO-ONE may re-define them" (his emphasis).

Ostensibly, such proclamations arise from the noble sentiments of loyalty and devotion to Srila Prabhupada. However, when we begin to analyze them in terms of the teachings of the personality whom they purport to represent, then it all begins to look less rosy. Why? For the simple reason that Srila Prabhupada never instructed or wanted that any of his disciples focus on him exclusively for posterity, or turn him into a messiah-type figure.

Rather, for the sake of determining truth, he painstakingly taught us that one should refer to *three* sources of authority, namely sadhu, sastra and guru:

"Srila Narottama dasa Thakura says, sadhu-sastra-guru-vakya, cittete kariya aikya. One should accept a thing as genuine by studying the words of saintly people, the spiritual master and sastra. THE ACTUAL CENTER IS SASTRA, the revealed scripture. If a spiritual master does not speak according to revealed scripture, he is not to be accepted. Similarly, if a saintly person does not speak according to the sastra, he is not a saintly person. SASTRA IS THE CENTER FOR ALL." (Madhya-lila: Chapter Twenty, Text 352)

Therefore, one who is truly a follower of Srila Prabhupada should follow the above, wherein he states that it is sastra which is in fact the main reference point, and not guru.

(see also appendix 1)

Out of a misplaced sentiment of loyalty, a disciple may decide that he will not hear from another vaisnava, or accept any other guru after the disappearance of his diksa guru. However, by so doing he will only cause more problems than he thinks to solve.

The reason for this is quite self evident. Coming to the material world, a guru is having to deal with relative conditions, and therefore sometimes his statements and actions will also be relative accordingly. That being the case, a disciple who refers to the teachings of his guru alone will not be able to discern between a teaching which is intended as siddhanta, and one that is meant for a specific person, place or circumstance. With this relativity in mind, Srila Prabhupada tells us:

"To broadcast the cult of Krsna consciousness, one has to learn the possibility of renunciation in terms of country, time and candidate. A candidate for Krsna consciousness in the Western countries should be taught about the renunciation of material existence, but one would teach candidates from a country like India in a different way. The teacher (acarya) has to consider time, candidate and country. He must avoid the principle of niyamagraha--that is, he should not try to perform the impossible. What is possible in one country may not be possible in another. The acarya's duty is to accept the essence of devotional service. There may be a little change here and there as far as yukta-vairagya (proper renunciation) is concerned. ...What is required is a special technique according to country, time and candidate." (Madhya-lila 23.105)

"It is the concern of the acarya to show mercy to the fallen souls. In this connection, desa-kala-patra (the place, the time and the object) should be taken into consideration." (Adi 7.38)

"The Vedas instruct us that knowledge must always be considered in terms of desa-kala-patra. Desa means 'circumstances,' kala means 'time,' and patra means 'the object.' We must understand everything by taking these three elements into consideration." (Life Comes from Life: The First Morning Walk April 18, 1973)

"As an ideal acarya, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu devised ways to capture all kinds of atheists and materialists. Every acarya has a specific means of propagating his spiritual movement with the aim of bringing men to Krsna consciousness. Therefore, THE METHOD OF ONE ACARYA MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF ANOTHER, but the ultimate goal is never neglected." (Adi-lila Chapter Seven, Text 37)

"The supreme Lord Shree Krishna Chaitanya in pursuance of the teaching of the scriptures enjoins all absence of conventionalism for the teachers of the eternal religion." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta saraswati, The Harmonist Vol. XXIX No 7 1932)

Even the Gosvamis were obliged to temper their preaching approach with this consideration in mind:

"Sanatana Gosvami wrote his Vaisnava smrti, Hari-bhakti-vilasa, which was specifically meant for India. In those days, India was more or less following the principle of smarta-vidhi. Srila Sanatana Gosvami HAD TO KEEP PACE WITH THIS, and his Hari-bhakti-vilasa was compiled with this in mind." (Madhya-lila23.105)

However, not only does an acarya sometimes compromise his presentation of the absolute truth for the sake of his disciples and followers, but on occasion he will deliberately speak isolated, outright untruths to them. In fact, he may even go so far as to consistently teach them an utterly false doctrine for the purpose of uplifting them, if he sees that they are sufficiently degraded or illusioned. We see that this was done by Sankaracarya and Lord Buddha.

Such merciful preaching tactics are not confined to them either:

"These are the secrets of the acaryas. Sometimes they conceal the real purpose of the Vedas and explain the Vedas in a different way. Sometimes they enunciate a different theory just to bring the atheists under their control." (Madhya-lila 25.42)

Even in our own vaisnava sampradayas, there are numerous examples of bonafide acaryas who deliberately preached doctrines which were quite contrary to siddhanta, in order to attract a certain class of person. This practice is known as "badasamisa nyaya", meaning the logic of using the bait to catch the fish. One example is that of Srila Sridhara Svami. Because he was writing his commentaries on the Bhagavatam in Varanasi, which is a stronghold of the followers of impersonalism, he introduced some of their faulty teachings into his writings in order to attract them to Vaisnavism. Understanding his reasons for so doing, far from rejecting his commentaries in wholesale fashion, later acaryas merely deleted those parts that were incorrect, and reverently preserved the main body for future generations. In our Rupanuga varga, we also have the example of Srila Jiva goswami, who wrote a book teaching that svakiya rasa (wedded love) is higher than parakiya rasa (paramour love), even though this is contrary to all the teachings of our acaryas. His reason for doing this was because some of his neophyte disciples were too disturbed by the concept of parakiya rasa between Krsna and the gopis. (see appendix 2) More recently, we have the example of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura, whose immediate preaching field consisted largely of intellectual Indians who had been educated by the British. Since he did not want to prematurely jar their false sophistications with too intense a presentation of the Srimad Bhagavatam, he dismissed 5th canto accounts of hellish planets as mere puranic myths. He claimed that their inclusion within was only for the purpose of frightening ignorant and superstitious people into abstaining from sinful activity. (see appendix 3) Nevertheless, although this has never been stated by any other acarya, and is contrary to sadhu sastra and guru, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura is nevertheless revered as "the seventh gosvami" by all subsequent acaryas.

However, despite understanding the above, a disciple may reason that since his means of deliverance from the material energy is from the mercy of his guru, he will not therefore concern himself about whether or not all of the statements his guru has given are all perfectly siddhantic. This logic may work for a time, at least for long as the guru and the extraordinary circumstances in which he is preaching are manifest. However, the guru also wishes that his disciple properly understand the siddhanta and thereby advance in spiritual life. He certainly does not intend for him to remain in ignorance and illusion. Speaking about this, Srila Prabhupada tells us:

[ChiefCowpie]

However, despite understanding the above, a disciple may reason that since his means of deliverance from the material energy is from the mercy of his guru, he will not therefore concern himself about whether or not all of the statements his guru has given are all perfectly siddhantic. This logic may work for a time, at least for long as the guru and the extraordinary circumstances in which he is preaching are manifest. However, the guru also wishes that his disciple properly understand the siddhanta and thereby advance in spiritual life. He certainly does not intend for him to remain in ignorance and illusion. Speaking about this, Srila Prabhupada tells us:

"Therefore this imaginary meaning is gauna-vrtti, whereas the direct meaning found in the dictionary is mukhya-vrtti or abhidha-vrtti. This is the distinction between the two. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommends that one understand the Vedic literature in terms of abhidha-vrtti, and the gauna-vrtti He rejects. SOMETIMES, HOWEVER, AS A MATTER OF NECESSITY, VEDIC LITERATURE IS DESCRIBED IN TERMS OF THE LAKSANA-VRTTI OR GAUNA-VRTTI, BUT ONE SHOULD NOT ACCEPT SUCH EXPLANATIONS AS PERMANENT TRUTHS." (Adi-lila 7.110)

"Vaisnava who is preaching, it may be in a different way, according to time and place and the party. They have to change something, desa-kala-patra. BUT WE HAVE TO SEE THE ESSENCE." (Prabhupada's Lectures (Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1974 741008SB.MAY)

"The essence of devotional service must be taken into consideration, and not the outward paraphernalia." (Madhya-lila: 23.105)

"Just this morning we were reading, yah sastra-vidhim utsrjya. If he follows the rules and regulations and, uh, then it is sure that he will come to that stage. BUT YOU SHOULD NOT BE RIGID. Suppose I have come to certain stage. "Oh, therefore I'll take it as final." No. There is no improvement. YOU HAVE TO SEEK OUT, IF THERE IS MORE AND MORE KNOWLEDGE BEYOND THIS. Just like the higher mathematics and mathematics in the infant class." (660826BG.NY Lectures)

Since Srila Prabhupada's preaching mission was undertaken in quite exceptional and unprecedented circumstances, it was necessary for him perhaps more than an any other acarya since Srila Rupa Gosvami to employ the principle of badasamisa nyaya. Indeed, never could time, place and circumstance have been so radically different for preceding acaryas as they were for Srila Prabhupada. Wishing that his disciples and followers understand this principle very clearly, he spoke about it at length and in depth on a number of occasions. (see 4 - 6 in appendix)

Despite this, certain devotees see fit to criticize Srila Narayan Maharaja because some of his preaching and standards differ from those of Srila Prabhupada. Although they seem to think that the more faithfully they copy the external activities of Srila Prabhupada, the more qualified they will be, they are in fact entirely wrong. As has already been shown, there will inevitably always be differences between the preaching approach of one acarya and another. Therefore, far from being a disqualification, adjustment of preaching according to time place and circumstance is what we *would* expect to see from the bonafide acarya. It is in fact the artificial copying of the previous acarya which is condemned:

"One who tries to imitate the mahajanas just to become an imitative spiritual master is certainly far away from following in the footsteps of the mahajanas. Sometimes people cannot actually understand how a mahajana follows other mahajanas. In this way people are inclined to fall from devotional service. " (Madhya 17.185)

"We are not likely to benefit by any mechanical imitation of any practices of Thakur Bhaktivinode on the opportunist principle that they may be convenient for us to adopt." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, The Harmonist, December 1931, vo l. XXIX No.66)

"The mere pursuit of fixed doctrines and fixed liturgies cannot hold a person to the true spirit of doctrine or liturgy." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, The Harmonist, December 1931, vol. XXIX No.66)

A conditioned soul needs the personal guidance of a bonafide guru, and cannot make significant spiritual advancement by reference to sadhu or sastra alone. This applies as much to those who may have received diksa or siksa at one time, but are now physically separated from their guru, as it does to those who never had the good fortune of ever associating with a bonafide spiritual master. Indeed, one who refuses to accept a siksa guru after the disappearance of his diksa guru becomes an offender:

"There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple. If one thinks that he is above consulting anyone else, INCLUDING A SPIRITUAL MASTER, he is at once an offender at the lotus feet of the Lord. Such an offender can never go back to Godhead. It is imperative that a serious person accept a bona fide spiritual master in terms of the sastric injunctions." (Adi 1.35)

Shortly after the disappearance of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura, there were many of his disciples who were also of the mistaken opinion that they would be able to retain a spiritual connection with their guru independently of siksa guidance. Seeing this, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta saraswati wrote an entire paper to defeat their deluded theory. He states:

"Those who pretend to recognise the Divine Mission of Thakur Bhaktivinode WITHOUT ASPIRING TO THE UNCONDITIONAL SERVICE OF THOSE PURE SOULS WHO REALLY FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS OF THE THAKUR BY THE METHOD ENJOINED BY THE SCRIPTURES and explained by Thakur Bhaktivinode in a way that is so eminently suited to the requirements of the sophisticated mentality of the present Age, only deceive themselves and their willing victims by their hypocritical professions and performances. These persons must not be confounded with the bonafide members of the flock." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, The Harmonist, December 1931, vo l. XXIX No.66)

Sadhu sanga is our key to success, and is always necessary without exception. Even a madhyama-adhikari (what to speak of a neophyte) is instructed to both "study the sastras and associate with a first-class devotee", or he will "make no progress":

"It should be understood that a madhyama-adhikari, a second-class devotee, is fully convinced of Krsna consciousness but cannot support his convictions with sastric reference. A neophyte may fall down by associating with nondevotees because he is not firmly convinced and strongly situated. The second-class devotee, even though he cannot support his position with sastric reference, can gradually become a first-class devotee by studying the sastras AND associating with a first-class devotee. However, if the second-class devotee does not advance himself by associating with a first-class devotee, he makes no progress." (Madhya 22.71 The Process of Devotional Service)

[ChiefCowpie]

krsna-bhakti-janma-mula haya 'sadhu-sanga' krsna-prema janme, tenho punah mukhya anga

"The root cause of devotional service to Lord Krsna is association with advanced devotees. Even when one's dormant love for Krsna awakens, association with devotees IS STILL MOST ESSENTIAL." (Madhya 22.83)

The above statement is borne out by the example of Bharata Maharaja who had progressed even to the point of bhava bhakti, but who fell down on account of not having the association of a physically manifest guru:

"Bharata Maharaja did not consult a spiritual master when he became overly attached to a deer. Consequently he became strongly attached to the deer, and, forgetting his spiritual routine, he fell down." (Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 5: Chapter Twelve, Text 14) vatam Canto 5: Chapter Twelve, Text 14)

(see also points 7 & 8 in appendix)

If mono-guru advocates are under the impression that Srila Prabhupada's books are going to yield their priceless contents to them by the simple expedient of independent reference, then they are quite mistaken. The books themselves tell us:

"Great authorities should be followed; otherwise, if we simply depend on the scriptures, we are sometimes misled by rascals, or else we cannot understand or follow the different spiritual injunctions." (SB 3.16.23)

Our process, repeated from sastra by Srila Prabhupada time and time again, is to hear the book Bhagavata from the person Bhagavata. In the Caitanya caritamrta, Srila Svarupa Damodara states:

yaha bhagavata pada vaisnavera sthane ekanta asraya kara caitanya-carane

"'If you want to understand Srimad Bhagavatam', he said, 'you must approach a self-realised vaisnava and hear from him. You can do this when you have completely taken shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu'". (CC Ant 5.131)

(see also points 9 - 17 in appendix)

Speaking of the teachings of his father, some of whose disciples also asserted that by their study alone they would be able to continue to progress spiritually, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta saraswati states:

"If his works are studied in the light of one's own worldly experience their meaning will refuse to disclose itself to such readers. His works belong to the class of the eternal revealed literature of the world and must be approached for their right understanding through their exposition by the pure devotee. If no help from the pure devotee is sought the works of Thakur Bhaktivinode will be GROSSLY MISUNDERSTOOD by their readers." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, The Harmonist, December 1931, vol. XXIX No.6)

"The writings of Thakur Bhaktivinode are valuable because they demolish all empiric objections against accepting the only method of approaching the Absolute in the right way. They cannot and were never intended to give access to the Absolute without help from the pure devotee of Krishna." (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, (The Harmonist, December 1931, vol. XXIX No.6)

Unfortunately, although Srila Prabhupada has instructed us:

"The process of speaking in spiritual circles is to say something upheld by the scriptures. One should at once quote from scriptural authority to back up what he is saying. At the same time, such talk should be very pleasurable to the ear." (Bhagavad-gita 17.15)

Those who have seen fit to find fault with Srila Narayan Maharaja have neither quoted from scriptural authority to back up what they are saying, nor have they spoken in a way which is "very pleasurable to the ear". On the contrary, their literary compositions are, quite simply, systematic, slanderous propaganda attempts to invalidate Srila Narayan Maharaja in the eyes of the vaisnava community.

That this kind of conduct is utterly repugnant and the height of bad taste is an axiomatic truth for any vaisnava. However, what is really staggering is the fact that its perpetrators, many of whom are long standing members, appear to have no understanding or appreciation of the fundamental philosophical principles discussed in this paper.

To date, we have not found that any of their writings have ever contained any valid criticisms based on "scriptural authority". Rather, if they are not pushing ad hominem, then their contents otherwise consist of attacks made on the basis that because his preaching activities are not identical to those of Srila Prabhupada, that Srila Narayan Maharaja therefore cannot truly represent him. However, as the evidence of this paper so abundantly illustrates, such a theory is meaningless.

Nevertheless, we will in subsequent publications address the specific criticisms which have been made, and will show how in fact the actions and preaching of Srila Narayan Maharaja are wholely in line with sadhu sastra and guru.

--end--

[ChiefCowpie]

Appendix

(1) "Narottama dasa Thakura, a great devotee and acarya in the Gaudiya Vaisnava-sampradaya, says that all spiritual activities should be understood from three sources, namely saintly persons, standard scriptures and the spiritual master. These three guides are very important for progress in spiritual life. The spiritual master prescribes standard literature for the prosecution of the yoga of devotional service, and he himself speaks only from scriptural reference. Therefore reading standard scriptures is necessary for executing yoga. Practicing yoga without reading the standard literatures is simply a waste of time." (SB 3.28.4 Purport)

(2) "According to another accusation, Srila Jiva Gosvami did not approve of the principles of the parakiya-rasa of Vrajadhama and therefore supported svakiya-rasa, showing that Radha and Krsna are eternally married. Actually, when Jiva Gosvami was alive, some of his followers disliked the parakiya-rasa of the gopis. Therefore Srila Jiva Gosvami, for their spiritual benefit, supported svakiya-rasa, for he could understand that sahajiyas would otherwise exploit the parakiya-rasa, as they are actually doing at the present. Unfortunately, in Vrndavana and Navadvipa it has become fashionable among sahajiyas, in their debauchery, to find an unmarried sexual partner to live with to execute devotional service in parakiya-rasa. Foreseeing this, Srila Jiva Gosvami supported svakiya-rasa, and later all the Vaisnava acaryas also appoved of it. Srila Jiva Gosvami was never opposed to the transcendental parakiya-rasa, nor has any other Vaisnava disapproved of it. Srila Jiva Gosvami strictly followed his predecessor gurus and Vaisnavas, Srila Rupa and Sanatana Gosvami, and Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami accepted him as one of his instructor gurus." (Adi-lila 10.85)

(3) "The religion of the Bhagavata is free from such a poetic imagination. Indeed, in some of the chapters we meet with descriptions of these hells and heavens, and accounts of curious tales, but we have been warned in some place in the book, not to accept them as real facts, but treat as inventions to overawe the wicked and to improve the simple and the ignorant. The Bhagavata, certainly tells us of a state of reward and punishment in future according to our deeds in our present situation. All poetic inventions, besides this spiritual fact, have been described as statements borrowed from other works in the way of retention of some old traditions in this book which completely superseded them all and put an end to the necessity of their storage." (The Bhagavat: Its Philosophy, Its Ethics & Its Theology, p.25)

(4) "To broadcast the cult of Krsna consciousness, one has to learn the possibility of renunciation in terms of country, time and candidate. A candidate for Krsna consciousness in the Western countries should be taught about the renunciation of material existence, but one would teach candidates from a country like India in a different way. The teacher (acarya) has to consider time, candidate and country. He must avoid the principle of niyamagraha--that is, he should not try to perform the impossible. What is possible in one country may not be possible in another. The acarya's duty is to accept the essence of devotional service. There may be a little change here and there as far as yukta-vairagya (proper renunciation) is concerned. Dry renunciation is forbidden by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and we have also learned this from our spiritual master, His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Gosvami Maharaja. The essence of devotional service must be taken into consideration, and not the outward paraphernalia. Sanatana Gosvami wrote his Vaisnava smrti, Hari-bhakti-vilasa, which was specifically meant for India. In those days, India was more or less following the principle of smarta-vidhi. Srila Sanatana Gosvami had to keep pace with this, and his Hari-bhakti-vilasa was compiled with this in mind. According to smarta- brahmanas, a person not born in a brahmana family could not be elevated to the position of a brahmana. Sanatana Gosvami, however, says in Hari-bhakti- vilasa (2.12) that anyone can be elevated to the position of a brahmana by the process of initiation.

yatha kancanatam yati
kamsyam rasa-vidhanatah
tatha diksa-vidhanena
dvijatvam jayate nrnam

There is a difference between the smarta process and the gosvami process. According to the smarta process, one cannot be accepted as a brahmana unless he is born in a brahmana family. According to the gosvami process, the Hari-bhakti- vilasa and the Narada-pancaratra, anyone can be a brahmana if he is properly initiated by a bona fide spiritual master. This is also the verdict of Sukadeva Gosvami in Srimad-Bhagavatam (2.4.18):

kira ta-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye'nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah

A Vaisnava is immediately purified, provided he follows the rules and regulations of his bona fide spiritual master. it is not necessary that the rules and regulations followed in India be exactly the same as those in Europe, America and other Western countries. Simply imitating without effect is called niyamagraha. Not following the regulative principles but instead living extravagantly is also called niyamagraha. The word niyama means "regulative principles," and agraha means "eagerness." The word agraha means "not to accept." We should not follow regulative principles without an effect, nor should we fail to accept the regulative principles. What is required is a special technique according to country, time and candidate. Without the sanction of the spiritual master, we should not try to imitate. This principle is recommended here: suska-vairagya-jnana saba nisedhila. This is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's liberal demonstration of the bhakti cult." (Madhya-lila 23.105)

(5) The method of worship--chanting the mantra and preparing the forms of the Lord--is not stereotyped, nor is it exactly the same everywhere. lt is specifically mentioned in this verse that one should take consideration of the time, place and available conveniences. Our Krsna consciousness movement is going on throughout the entire world, and we also install Deities in different centers. Sometimes our lndian friends, puffed up with concocted notions, criticize, "This has not been done. That has not been done." But they forget this instruction of Narada Muni to one of the greatest Vaisnavas, Dhruva Maharaja. One has to consider the particular time, country and conveniences. What is convenient in India may not be convenient in the Western countries. Those who are not actually in the line of acaryas, or who personally have no knowledge of how to act in the role of acarya, unnecessarily criticize the activities of the ISKCON movement in countries outside of India. The fact is that such critics cannot do anything personally to spread Krsna consciousness. If someone does go and preach, taking all risks and allowing all considerations for time and place, it might be that there are changes in the manner of worship, but that is not at all faulty according to sastra. Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The formalities may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas. (SB 4.8.54)

(6) The expert devotees also can discover novel ways and means to convert the nondevotees in terms of particular time and circumstance. Devotional service is dynamic activity, and the expert devotees can find out competent means to inject it into the dull brains of the materialistic population. Such transcendental activities of the devotees for the service of the Lord can bring a new order of life to the foolish society of materialistic men. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His subsequent followers exhibited expert dexterity in this connection. (SB 1.5.16)

(7) "One cannot understand Krsna by mental speculation. For one who does not take personal training under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master, it is impossible to even begin to understand Krsna." (Bg 11.54)

(8) "The process is that whatever we offer to the Deity, that is offered to guru. And guru offers to his guru. In this way goes to Krsna. We don't directly offer Radha-Krsna. No. We have no right. Neither He accepts in that way. The pictures of the acaryas, why there are? Actually, one has to offer the plate to his guru, and he'll offer his guru, he offers his guru, his guru. In this way it will go to Krsna. That is the process. YOU CANNOT DIRECTLY APPROACH KRSNA OR OTHER SUBORDINATES TO KRSNA. THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE."

(Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1971 710215SB.GOR)

(9) "A third-class devotee, therefore, has to receive the instructions of devotional service from the authoritative sources of Bhagavata. The number one Bhagavata is the established personality of devotee, and the other Bhagavatam is the message of Godhead. THE THIRD-CLASS DEVOTEE THEREFORE HAS TO GO TO THE PERSONALITY OF DEVOTEE IN ORDER TO LEARN THE INSTRUCTIONS OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE." (SB 1.2.12)

(10) "The messages of the book Bhagavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhagavata, and the combination of these Two Bhagavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on." (SB 1.2.18)

(11) "The more progress is made in devotional service under the guidance of the Bhagavatas, the more one becomes fixed in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The messages of the book Bhagavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhagavata, and the combination of these two Bhagavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on." (SB 3.8.2)

[ChiefCowpie]

(12) eka bhagavata bada - bhagavata-sastra ara bhagavata - bhakta bhakti-rasa patra

dui bhagavata dvara diya bhakti rasa tanhara hrdaye tanre preme haya vasa

"One of the bhagavatas is the great scripture, Srimad-Bhagavatam. The other is the pure devotee bhagavata, who is absorbed in bhakti rasa. Through the actions of these two bhagavatas the Lord instills the mellows of bhakti rasa into the heart of a living being and thus the Lord, in the heart of His devotee, comes under the control of His devotee's love." (Adi-lila 1.99, 100)

(13) "And Bhagavata means the book Bhagavata and the person bhagavata. The person bhagavata is spiritual master or any exalted devotee. He is bhagavata, maha-bhagavata, bhagavata. So bhagavata-sevaya means not only reading Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavatam, but WE HAVE TO STUDY FROM THE PERSON BHAGAVATA. That is required." (Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1975 750227BG.MIA)

(14) "Therefore, formerly there was no written book. Sruti, simply by hearing, a brahmacari would be educated, simply by hearing. There was no need of books, writing. Therefore the Vedic literature is known as sruti. It is to be learned by hearing. EVEN THERE IS BOOK, STILL, ONE HAS TO LEARN IT BY HEARING FROM THE REALIZED SOUL." (Prabhupada's Lectures 750730SRIMAD BHAGAVATAM.DAL)

(15) "SIMPLE THEORETICAL BOOK KNOWLEDGE IS NOT SUFFICIENT FOR A NEOPHYTE DEVOTEE. Book knowledge is theoretical, whereas the arcana process is practical. Spiritual knowledge must be developed by a combination of theoretical and practical knowledge, and that is the guaranteed way for attainment of spiritual perfection. THE TRAINING OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE FOR A NEOPHYTE DEVOTEE COMPLETELY DEPENDS ON THE EXPERT SPIRITUAL MASTER who knows how to lead his disciple to make gradual progress towards the path back home, back to Godhead." (SB 2.3.22)

(16) "The instructions received from the spiritual master must be followed immediately. One should not deviate from or surpass the instructions of the spiritual master. ONE SHOULD NOT BE SIMPLY INTENT ON CONSULTING BOOKS but should simultaneously execute the spiritual master's order (yathopadesam)." (SB 5.5.14)

In the following, Srila Prabhupada is asked point blank by one of his disciples whether or not one can spiritually advance simply by reading his books alone. His answer is a quite definite "no":

(17) Madhudvisa: ...cannot become a medical practitioner by simply reading the books. He must study under a medical practitioner. So in the case of your books, is it possible to become a devotee without actually having personal association with you? Just by reading your books?
Prabhupada: No, it is not that you have to associate with the author. BUT ONE WHO KNOWS, IF YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE TO TAKE LESSON FROM HIM. Not necessarily that you have to contact with the author always. Devotee: Just like the textbooks are not written by the teachers; they're written by other professors.
Devotee: Usually you don't even meet the author.
Prabhupada: Simply one who knows the subject matter, he can explain.
Madhudvisa: But can your, would your purports, would that serve as explanation besides...
Prabhupada: NO, NO, ANYONE WHO KNOWS THE SUBJECT MATTER, HE WILL BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN. Not necessarily the author is required to be present there.
(Morning Walk Melbourne, May 21, 1975 750521MW.MEL)

If you would like to read more material on or by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, then please contact the following websites:


If you would like to purchase literature by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja in the US, then please contact the following address:

Nanda-gopala das adhikari, PO Box 99, Badger, Ca 93603, tel 1-559-337-2448, e-mail nandagopal108@hotmail.com

From Europe:

Gour Govinda Gaudiya Math, 32 Handsworth Wood Road, Birmingham B20 2DS, UK 44-121-682-9159 gourgovinda@hotmail.com

From India: The Secretary, Kesavji Gaudiya Math, Mathura UP, 281001, India tel. 91-565-409453, e-mail kdd@writeme.com

To purchase audio tapes from the US, please contact Mahi bharta das Adhikari, PO Box 132, Badger, Ca 93603 tel 1-559-337-2411

To purchase video tapes from the US, please contact: rasaraja@goloka.com

[sleeping jiva]

Chief CowPie: I believe this is a thread about Krishna consciousness, not about who is bigger guru. Many people don't even know who is Krishna -this is too confusing for them and I believe that it turns them off. Srila Prabhupada did a lot for spreading Krishna consciousness, his work is incomparable with anyone in the 20th century. There's no other way to understand Krishna than to chant His Holy Names- not by mental speculation. You don't need to care about who your guru is. It's all Krishna's work. He'll send you the guru you deserve. So please chant:

[ChiefCowpie]

sleeping jiva, if you read those articles and you thought they were about who was the bigger guru and mental speculation and someone trying to displace SP, then you were asleep

[ChiefCowpie]

A Living Sadhu

by Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja

[From Chapter Six of Pariprasna: The Process of Inquiry]

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada always emphasized that he was eternally present in his books, instructions, tapes, and letters. So when you say we should take association of a sadhu can we do that through Srila Prabhupada's books?

Present in His Books

Gour Govinda Swami: If Prabhupada says he is there, then you try to see him, associate with him and listen from him. Do you see Prabhupada? Is he speaking to you?

Devotee: Through his books.

Gour Govinda Swami: Through his books, yes. All sadhus speak through their books. Jiva Goswami, Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and Srila Prabhupada all say that they speak through books.
This is not a new thing. This is our vaisnava procedure. But you should see him. Can you see Bhaktivinode Thakur? Can you see Jiva Goswami ? You may say, "Oh I have read their books, I have their association." That won't help you. You cannot understand what they have said merely by reading their books.Your consciousness is very low, so you cannot understand their words. They are very, very merciful, but you should follow the proper path. If you are intelligent you will understand how they are still here, not only in the form of their books but also they are here. You should see them. Why are you thinking so foolishly? So many books were already there, so why has Srila Prabhupada said this? You are thinking, "We need only to read books. There is no need of association with a sadhu who is physically present. Is there any sadhu? No, there is no sadhu at all."

Seeing is Believing

Your motto is, "Seeing is believing." You cannot see, so you cannot believe. Because you are a conditioned soul your vision is defective. You cannot see a sadhu.
Krsna is there, can you see him? No, you cannot, because you are not endowed with proper vision. First develop the proper vision and then you can see Krsna. Then you can see how a sadhu is there. It is not a fact that sadhus are not present. How is everything going on? How does the sun rise, the wind blow, and Indra give rain? All these things are going on. No sadhu? No Krsna? It's nonsense, foolishness. We are so proud and puffed up. We are indentifying our self as the body, mind and false ego. We think we are very great. So we say "Oh there is no sadhu." We are in the category of identification with the body and mind. We have not come to the beginning of the stage of purity. No!

Devotee: So we have to associate with a living sadhu?

Gour Govinda Swami: Definitely. There is always one there. But he is not a cheap person. Such a person is very rare. If you can get his mercy then you can see him. Otherwise, by your own effort and perception you cannot see him. No, no, no.
You always think that you are drasta, the seer, and that the sadhu is drsta, the one to be seen. Everyone is like this. They think they are the seers. But it is just the reverse. You are to are to be seen and they are the seer! Think this over very deeply. I think you cannot completely understand what I say. We always think that we are the seer and that they are to be seen, but this is not a fact. It is just the reverse. They are the seers and we are to be seen.

Merciful Glance

Devotee: How are we seen by the sadhu by our service?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. The sadhu is the seer. If he showers his mercy upon you, he sees you. If you receive that merciful glance then you are very fortunate. However, you are in the category of bodily consciousness. How can you have it?
Guru is the manifestation of the Supersoul, caitya-guru in the heart. He manifests a body and appears. He knows your heart.

Devotee: I don't quite understand. Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, try to understand. As I told you, just hear patiently. A new bhakta cannot understand it because it is a topic of the highest class. You are in pre-primary class, how can you understand? You are not even in the primary class. How can you understand this topic of the highest class? Just accept the bona fide authorities. That will help you. The teacher says, "Two plus two is four." The primary school student accepts it. If the teacher asks the child, "What is two plus two?" The child will reply, "Two plus two is four." "Why is two plus two four?" " My teacher says." He will answer like this. That means he has accepted authority. This is the only principle in the beginning. How is two plus two four? Why not three or five? That will be explained in a higher mathematics class, not in the beginning. You have to have patience and get a promotion. My guru maharaj says in his purport that the beginning is purity of consciousness. First come to this beginning stage, then gradually other things will come up. You are not in the beginning stage so how will the higher topics come up? This is a very, very subtle and very deep philosophy.
Putting full faith in the sadhu you need only submissively hear --- sravanam, sravanam, sravanam. In that way you can get the mercy of that sadhu. That will help you. Only one thing is required, nothing else --- sravanam, sravanam, sravanam. Just hear. Serve that sadhu, please him, hear submissively, surrender yourself at his lotus feet and submissively ask questions. Out of mercy the sadhu will impart tattva-jnana to you.
This is the only process.
Unless you get association with a living sadhu, what can you do? Will you put some question to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada will answer you? This process is a living thing, it is always there, it is always current. It is not that inquiry was done a certain way in the past and now things are done differently. No! It is an eternal process, pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya.

[ChiefCowpie]

sleeping jiva, and the reason why this is important is that there are three pillars to vaishnava philosophy... "sadhu, sastra and guru"...yes Prahbhupada is in his purports but is Prabhupada right there next to you to instruct you...therefore you must find have the association of a sadhu to elevate your consciousness

[BlackBillBlake]

Chief CowPie: I believe this is a thread about Krishna consciousness, not about who is bigger guru. Many people don't even know who is Krishna -this is too confusing for them and I believe that it turns them off. Srila Prabhupada did a lot for spreading Krishna consciousness, his work is incomparable with anyone in the 20th century. There's no other way to understand Krishna than to chant His Holy Names- not by mental speculation. You don't need to care about who your guru is. It's all Krishna's work. He'll send you the guru you deserve. So please chant:
Too bad then if you end up with one of the phoney ursurper gurus, like Prabhupada's 11 'sucessors'!

[sleeping jiva]

Srila Prabhupada is here! -- At Whose Feet All Masters Sit.

Tonight I began reading 'By His Example,' Gurudas’s new book about Prabhupada. I couldn’t put it down. By 11:30pm, I found myself on page 57, chapter 4. I put the book beside my bed as my eyes were telling me they needed rest. I closed them ready for sleep. I couldn’t sleep, Srila Prabhupada was in my head walking in San Francisco at Stow Lake as Gurudas described in his book. I suddenly had an epiphany: Srila Prabhupada is here! Gadadhara dasa (http://www.krishna.org/?author=Gadadhara dasa) (06-24-04)</STRONG></FONT>



I put the book beside my bed as my eyes were telling me they needed rest. I closed them ready for sleep. I couldn’t sleep, Srila Prabhupada was in my head walking in San Francisco at Stow Lake as Gurudas described in his book.

I suddenly had an epiphany: Srila Prabhupada is here! Remembering a lecture I had read the other day on the Vedabase, he says that this modern technology has become so advanced that you can go from New York to Bombay in 9 hours. But think how fast the mind is. You can go from New York to Vrindavana is less then a second!

Srila Prabhupada is here! By reading his books (http://krishna.tv/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=OB), listening to his lectures (http://krishna.tv/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MP3&Category_Code=AUDIO), watching his films (http://krishna.tv/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DVD-FULL-SET&Category_Code=DVD), reading stories about him, one can become Krishna conscious instantly. He is here instantly.

Everything Srila Prabhupada did when he was physically present was for Krishna. He did everything perfectly. All that he teaches is perfectly from Krishna’s lips.

There is no one that can do what Srila Prabhupada did. This is the first time in history that an old man came to another country and changed the world by teaching real religion.

In another lecture he is explaining about religion. What is religion? Religion is the law of God. So if someone comes to America from London they have to obey the driving laws. They can not just drive on the left hand side of the road. They have to obey the law given by the government.

So religion is the Law of God. Krishna gives you the opportunity to follow his Laws and in this way you can go to Him. If you break the law, just as if you drive on the left side of the road in America, you will be punished. This is nature’s laws, the law of Karma, Gods laws, Krishna’s laws.

Srila Prabhupada has an answer for everything. We are “eternal living spirit souls,” we never die. Srila Prabhupada has come and he truly is Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada means, “at whose feet all masters sit.”

Srila Prabhupada has given us everything and we have to take advantage of it. Human life is meant for God realization. We must take advantage of this human form of life and turn to Srila Prabhupada’s words. Read, listen, watch, and associate with him. He will come to you! He Will!

[sleeping jiva]

BLackBillBlake: As I said, you'll get the guru you deserve. Prabhupada left books behind. Nobody forces you to go there. It was said enough about this topic and my standpoint about it, why do you need to start it all again? Please, you can't even keep your promise about ending in this thread.

[sleeping jiva]

ChiefCowpie: Do you chant? How often? Let us talk about Krishna. This is nothing than politics for me. If you brought some Bhagavadgita verses -that would be interesting to discuss. But this is so boring. I deeply respect everyone, who chants the Holy Names. Yes, I'm a sleeping jiva...:) I'm under spell of maya.

[sleeping jiva]

If you want to know me, then you must know about me from me. You can not speculate about me. [Srila Prabhupada]

[BlackBillBlake]

BLackBillBlake: As I said, you'll get the guru you deserve. Prabhupada left books behind. Nobody forces you to go there. It was said enough about this topic and my standpoint about it, why do you need to start it all again? Please, you can't even keep your promise about ending in this thread.
I'm sorry, but I just think that there is a serious problem here, and you can't just sweep it under the carpet, or be in denial about it. No doubt Prabhupada's books are great, and clearly, many still feel his presence etc, but this doesn't mean that newcomers to Krishna Consciousness are going to realize this - there is a real and present danger that they will be decieved by persons with no spiritual realization who claim to be Prabhupada's true successors - bona fide spiritual masters in the line of disciplic succession - they will see only copies of Prabhupada's books that have been 'doctored' by the said 'gurus'.
After some time their new'guru' may fall down, or worse - and then what?
The truth is that the deeds of these imposters are bringing the whole Krishna movement in the west more and more into disrepute.
So I ask you - what is to be done here?

[YogaLady]

I made the mistake of "looking," cuz once I look here, I had to post after seeing all those bogus posts that appear to those who don't know, as what Prabhupada taught or wanted. I'll try my best not to look again, and avoid all the nonsense gobbly gook. Here's the bottom line.

PRABHUPADA'S LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT

"The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change. Each new executive director for the ISKCON properties must be my initiated disciple."

Its impossible for *his initiated* disciple to be the *new* executive director of the properties unless they are his disciple, and NOT the disciple of his disciple. (Therefore, no iskcon guru.) Why? No one met qualifications. Its in his Will for cryin out loud. No mention of new guru's, no mention of Gaudiya Math, no mention of Sridhara Swami, no mention of Narayana Mahraja, no mention of any of his godbrothers at all, or any iskcon so-called guru. Only one he mentions as guru is him. Stop all this false egalatarian "lets all come together" stuff and recognize to really come together, to honestly be egalatarian, is to stop STEALING from Srila Prabhupada. Its his movement, and not one of his godbrothers loaned a helping hand to him when he asked them. He did the work, now they want to take it away. And those who agree are helping them make this offense.

Why did he say all those things in previous posts? I wont get into it, but for the road, those who aren't use to Vaisnava talk may not fully understand. Those who are, know how to make it mean what they want it to mean. Devotee manners, India's customs, politeness, relationships between him and his godbrothers, etc., are something even the devotees dont fully understand when it comes to the pure devotee (Srila Prabhuapda). We only have our own material experiences to pull from, and this is far different. Therefore I'm gonna stick with what Prabhupada actually ASKED of us to do for him. After all, this is his last Will and Testamony! How much more final of an instruction can there be?!

Additionally --------- >


Tamala Kanea: No one helped you. That's a fact. You asked that...
Prabhupada: Who?
Tamala Kanea:... Tirtha Maharaja for some help, he did not help at all. He would not even give a little place.
Prabhupada: Nobody. Everyone admits." ~ SP Room Conversations, June 17, 77, Vrindavana India

"So any one of my godbrothers cannot help me in this way of book writing because they are unfortunate in the matter of preaching work. They are simply trying to infiltrate our society to so something harmful by their attempt. So please do not have any correspondence with this Purusottama or any of my godbrothers, so-called." ~ SP letter to Karaunasindhu, Bombay, November 9, 75

This doesn't mean we have to dislike them, but shouldn't go the other extreme. Its not our call. It also does not mean, however, that Srila Prabhupada was antagonistic toward his godbrothers. That is material understanding. Prabhupada loved his godbrothers. His complaints, and you can reread and see this is whats going on, has nothing to do with his personal feelings toward them as friends and godbrothers. He cared deeply for them. His complaints were always about their lack of spiriutal qualification. That was his focal point. His personal relationships with each of them, is between him and them. His desier to separate ISKCON from Gaudiya Math remains.

I beg of you all to give up this false egalatarian 'lets all get along' when in truth his godbrothers never had any intention of getting along, but in taking. He was the only one who offered them to 'please lets get along,' come work with me (him), with my world wide movement even, but they never once took him up on that. Therefore please stop helping others to steal what belongs to Srila Prabhupada.

I'll try my best not to look back again, and those so inclined can have free reign to critize me . Nothing I can do about that. I've made the point. Only to please consider, not to help in the handing over of his movement to those he did not wish to have it, as is clear in his Will.

YL

[YogaLady]

(This was suppose to go in the last post and didn't fit. Is therefore the only reason I made a second post. Nohting personal meant by that. Just wanting to show I'm not making anything up and its all coming from Prabhupada, not my 'opinion' but his desire and instructions, even he included the Gaudiya Math problems in his books! Something very permanent.)



Tamala Krsna: Today I was reading a very beautiful section of Caitanya-caritamrta that Krsna comes in the form of the spiritual master. And then that...
Prabhupada: Spiritual master is a revelation of Krsna.
Tamala Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Guru-krsna.
Tamala Krsna: It was mentioning how the initiator spiritual master is the representative of Sri-Sri-Madana-mohana, and the instructing spiritual master is a representative of Sri-Govindadeva. Very nice explanation you gave in the purport.
Prabhupada: As far as possible, I have tried to present. In one place I have criticized my Godbrothers.
Tamala Krsna: Last night?
Prabhupada: No, no, in Caitanya-caritamrta.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah, at the end in one line. We were... When we read that, it was actually relishable, very personal.
Prabhupada: Sridhara Maharaja is little...
Tamala Krsna: He read it?
Prabhupada: I think so.
Tamala Krsna: Did he make any comment?
Prabhupada: He cannot make any comment. These are facts. Two parties there were. One party, to use guru as their instrument for self-aggrandizement, and another party left guru. So both of them are offenders. This Kunja Babu, this Tirtha Maharaja's party, he wanted to enjoy senses through guru. And the Bagh Bazaar party, they left.
Tamala Krsna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: So both of them are severe offenders.
Tamala Krsna: What about Sridhara Maharaja?
Prabhupada: Sridhara Maharaja belonged to the Bagh Bazaar party. And I was living aloof. My Guru Maharaja approved. He said, "It is better that he is aloof from them."
Tamala Krsna: He could understand that his disciples were not...
Prabhupada: No, he was very sorry. At the last stage he was disgusted.
Tamala Krsna: But that... That doesn't mean that your disciples should think also, "I will remain aloof just as our Prabhupada..."
Prabhupada: No, that I have not said. Therefore I used so strong word on the, our Surabhi's action. This was made independently. He has written. He has given photograph. That is not good.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I took that as a good instruction to all of us, your rebuking.
Prabhupada: I told him that "You cannot do so independent. You are doing nice, but not to do in the... You admit." People complained against Hamsaduta. Did you know that?
Tamala Krsna: I'm not sure of the particular incidences, but I've heard general...
Prabhupada: In Germany. In Germany.
Tamala Krsna: The devotees there.
Prabhupada: So many complaints.
Tamala Krsna: Therefore change is good.
Prabhupada: No, you become guru, but you must be qualified first of all. Then you become.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, that kind of complaint was there.
Prabhupada: Did you know that?
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I heard that, yeah.
Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: ...but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall say, "Now you become acarya. You become authorized." I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.
Tamala Krsna: The process of purification must be there.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, must be there. Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that. Amara ajnaya guru hana. "You become guru." (laughs) But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower...
Tamala Krsna: Not rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: Then you'll not be effective. You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to become guru, and a small temple and "guru." What kind of guru? No publication, no preaching, simply bring some foodstuff... My Guru Maharaja used to say, "Joint mess," a place for eating and sleeping. Amar amar ara takana (?)(Bengali): "Joint mess." He said this.
Tamala Krsna: That word "mess," by that word he meant eating, messing, eating?
Prabhupada: Yes. Messing, there is a system. Some clerks, they make a small cooperative hotel. In India there are many.
Tamala Krsna: That I see in South India sometimes... In dharm... I mean, in places like hotels I see.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Men who work, they all come...
Prabhupada: Cooperative effort.
Tamala Krsna: So he called that a joint mess, and he said that some of the disciples were doing that.
Prabhupada: He knew that. What is the use? Tirtha Maharaja's defense was that. "These people..." They were fighting with Tirtha Maharaja in the court that "Tirtha Maharaja was not good." Tirtha Maharaja's only defense was "All right, you want to combine to make a guru. All right, why don't you combine yourself for preaching?"
Tamala Krsna: What was his defense?
Prabhupada: That "You want to work jointly, so why you do not work jointly? You are jointly working to harass me. Why not preach jointly?"
Tamala Krsna: What was their reply?
Prabhupada: No reply.
Tamala Krsna: So it was a good defense.
Prabhupada: Yes. "You have joined together to defeat me. Why don't you preach jointly? What do you want? That I shall also join and we shall jointly preach. Do this. You are divided amongst yourselves, and you have joined together to defeat me." Sridhara Maharaja is the leader.
Tamala Krsna: Of that group.
Prabhupada: Madhava Maharaja also
Tamala Krsna: Madhava Maharaja is.
Prabhupada: For the last forty years they're fighting in the courts. They indirectly wanted me also to join them. "He has got money. If he joins, then our monetary, financial help will be there." That is their...
Tamala Krsna: Sridhara Maharaja. I remember a letter they wrote you in Los Angeles in 1969. You replied them, "Yes, I will join, but since I have preached in eleven-twelfths of the world, eleven of my men will be representatives, and you can put one."
Prabhupada: (laughing) Yes. Yes, according to the area, my representatives are there.
Tamala Krsna: Now there should be all twelve. (Prabhupada laughs)
Prabhupada: Another Godbrother, he asked me fifty thousand rupees to maintain his temple.
Tamala Krsna: How much?
Prabhupada: Fifty thousand. So I said, "Yes, I can give you fifty thousand, but this is mleccha money. You'll be polluted. Best thing is that give. We can maintain. I'll immediately deposit fifty thousand." He has stopped. (laughs) "We are mlecchas. I am the leader of the mlecchas, so my money will pollute you. But if you are feeling difficulty, you hand over the temple to us, and on condition I immediately deposit fifty thousand in the name of the temple."
Tamala Krsna: Then he was not interested. Suddenly his problems were solved. He didn't take the money.
Prabhupada: Money is not mleccha. But when we offer to eat something, we are mleccha.
Tamala Krsna: No one will take... A lot of the men, people, will not take prasadam at our temples for the same reason.
Prabhupada: Now they are taking. And some of them are not. ~ SP Room Conversation, April 22, 1977, Bombay

[YogaLady]

ChiefCowpie: Do you chant? How often? Let us talk about Krishna. This is nothing than politics for me. If you brought some Bhagavadgita verses -that would be interesting to discuss. But this is so boring. I deeply respect everyone, who chants the Holy Names. Yes, I'm a sleeping jiva...:) I'm under spell of maya.

No, he doesn't chant, he just instigates. Hes no Vaisnava. Has no guru, has no connection to ISKCON or the Gaudiya Math. Has no altar with a guru on it to offer to, doesn't follow any of the regulative principles, doesn't believe in any one path, and his mind is all over the place. He's not stupid tho and knows how to get attention put on him and how to keep people upset. Check around the other posts he makes. You can do that by clicking on his name. He makes very NON Vaisnava posts. Some of them are way rude and crude. He is merely a sense enjoyer of the mind, taking pleasure in helping to destroy Prabhuapda's movement and offending the genuine devotees in the process. He mucho enjoys this and hasn't a humble bone in his body. Don't be fooled into thinking he's sincere or cares. He couldn't care less. Its fun for him is all. Read his other posts on different topics and see for yourself.

Am done posting now.

[ChiefCowpie]

Srila Prabhupada and His Godbrothers

Comments are invited (Bvnmtour@cs.com)

SRILA PRABHUPADA AND THE GAUDIYA MATH

By Sridam sakha das

When Srila Prabhupada originally started ISKCON, he was very willing to undertake his mission in co-operation with his godbrothers. However, they were all envious of his success, and neglected all of his requests for help. As if that were not enough, they also did their utmost to disrupt his efforts in whatever way they could, for instance, by poisoning the minds of his disciples against him and reinitiating them. That they acted in the way they did is hardly surprising, in consideration of the fact that they had directly and deliberately disobeyed the instructions of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Against his wishes they elected an acarya after his departure. Not only that, but none of them ever followed his instructions to go and preach in the west. Srila Prabhupada's final instructions to his disciples with regard to his Godbrothers was to have nothing further to do with any of them.

Sounds familiar? During the time that I spent living in a temple, from what I heard from other devotees, this was, more or less, the impression that I had of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers and the Gaudiya math. However, after having done some research on the subject, I began to recognise how complex an issue it was, and that my previous understanding had been simplistic and misinformed.

The reader is no doubt familiar with many of the negative comments Srila Prabhupada had to make about his Godbrothers. However, he praised them on numerous occasions too:

"I am very glad to know that Ananda prabhu is staying with you, please offer my dandavats. He is my old Godbrother, sincere Vaisnava. Please treat him like your father. Do remain in full co-operation." (S.P. letter 6/5/'73)"So if you are actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association...When I was in India, Acyutananda, Ramanuja, and myself, with others, lived with Sridhara Maharaja, so Acyutananda knows him very well. He spared a big house for us and if both of you go there now, it will be very good for your spiritual benefit. Then I will feel that you are safe. Besides that, if you wish to live in India, you can make arrangements for this house so that other of your god-brothers may go there in the future." (Letter to Hrsikesa, 69-01-09)Srila Prabhupada apparently intended his disciples' association with Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja to be of a more long term variety.

In the following, Srila Prabhupada again makes the immense love and respect that he felt for his exalted godbrother very clear. More pointedly, he says that his association with Srila Sridhara Maharaja was arranged by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Krsna in order to help prepare him for the great mission he was later to undertake. However, perhaps most significantly of all, he states that he wanted to make Srila Sridhara Maharaja the head of ISKCON:

"So when we came back to Allahabad, so Ganesa Babu, he introduced me, that "Here is a nice devotee." So Prabhupada immediately replied, "Yes, I have marked him. He does not go away, he hears." This (indistinct), "Yes, I will accept him as disciple." Then I was initiated. In this way our relationship with Gaudiya Matha developed, and gradually as it developed, the other side diminished. Then, there are long history, it will take time, but I had the opportunity of associating with His Holiness. For several years I had the opportunity. Krsna and Prabhupada liked it to prepare me. Sridhara Maharaja lived as a...
Sridhara Maharaja: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: (laughs) ...in my house, some may say, a few years, so naturally we had very intimate talks and he was my good adviser. I took his advice, his instruction very seriously, because from the very beginning I know he's a pure Vaisnava and devotee, and I wanted to associate with him, and try to help him also in so many ways. He also tried to help me, so our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gaudiya Matha, I wanted to organize another organization, making Sridhara Maharaja head." (Room Conversation, Mayapur, March 17, 1973)Unfortunately, the above quote is not included in some, if not all of the Prabhupada databases, but, if the reader is interested, I will happily send them the whole conversation.)

Speaking of his sannyasa guru, Srila Prabhupada says:

"So I am feeling very much obliged to my, this godbrother, that he carried out the wish of my spiritual master and forced me to accept the sannyasa order. This godbrother, H.H. Kesava Maharaja is no more. He has entered Krsna's abode So I wish to pass a resolution of bereavement and send them. And I have composed one verse also in this connection in Sanskrit.....so I did not want to accept this sannyasa order, but this godbrother forced me 'you must.' apayayan mam, he forcefully made me drink this medicine...the Vaisnavas, the spiritual master, they forcefully say 'you drink this medicine.' You see apayayan mam anabhipsu ardham Sri-Kesava-bhakti prajana-nama. So this my Godbrother, his name is Kesava, Bhaktiprajnan Kesava. Krpambudhi. So he did this favour upon me because he was ocean of mercy. So we offer our obeisances to Vaisnava, krpambudhi. Vancha-kalpa-tarubhyas ca krpa-sindhubhya eva ca. The Vaisnavas, the representatives of the Lord, they are so kind. They bring the ocean of mercy for distributing to the suffering humanity. Krpambudhir yas tam aham prapadye. So I am offering my respectful obeisances unto this His Holiness, because he forcefully made me adopt this sannyasa order. So he is no more in this world. He has entered Krsna's abode. So I am offering my respectful obeisances along with my disciples...We are writing like this, "Resolved that we the undersigned members and devotees of International Society for Krishna Consciousness Incorporated, in a condolence meeting under the presidency of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, today the 21st of October, 1968, at our Seattle branch, express our profound bereavement on hearing the passing of His Divine Grace Om Visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktiprajnan Kesava Gosvami Maharaja, the sannyasa guru, preceptor of our spiritual master, and on October 6th, 1968, at his headquarter residence in Nabadwip, West Bengal. We offer our respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Sri Srimad Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja with the following verse composed on this occasion by our spiritual master." This verse I have already explained to you. So I wish that you all sign this and I'll send it tomorrow by air mail." (21st October '68, condolence lecture, Seattle) "The cult of Caitanya philosophy is richer than any other, and it is admitted to be the living religion of the day with the potency for spreading as visva-dharma, or universal religion. We are glad that the matter has been taken up by some enthusiastic sages like Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja and his disciples. We shall eagerly wait for the happy days of Bhagavata-dharma, or prema-dharma, inaugurated by the Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu." (Srimad-Bhagavatam: Introduction)"In the same order as Kardama Muni, about one hundred years ago, Thakura Bhaktivinoda also wanted to beget a child who could preach the philosophy and teachings of Lord Caitanya to the fullest extent. By his prayers to the Lord he had as his child Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, who at the present moment is preaching the philosophy of Lord Caitanya throughout the entire world through his bona fide disciples." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 3: Chapter Twenty-two, Text 20 Not only did Srila Prabhupada sometimes praise his godbrothers, but on one occasion even blessed one of his harinama disciples to take diksa from one of them:

"Please accept my humble obeisances at your lotus feet. I understand from the letter of Asita das that he has gone to your place in Jagannatha Puri. He has asked permission from me for taking initiation from you. I have given him my permission and you can initiate him if you like so that he may increase his devotional service there." Letter to: Sripada Madhava Maharaja : 75-01-14 Bombay "If you want to take initiation from Madhava Gosvami Maharaja I have no objection." Letter to: Asita das : 75-01-10 Bombay Nevertheless, despite praising individuals, Srila Prabhupada also made many negative statements about his godbrothers too. In the following he states:

"We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them." (Letter to Rupanuga Maharaja, 74-04-28, Tirupati)

[ChiefCowpie]

However, Srila Prabhupada's final instructions with regard to his godbrothers were very different. Literally days before passing away, he formed the "Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust", one of the purposes of which was to link up again with the Gaudiya Math devotees, and to work with them on a co-operative basis. The statement of purpose for the Trust in this regard, reads as follows:

"In keeping with the spirit of the previous acarya's vision of Gaudiya-Madhva sampradaya, to cement relations with all the sister temples of Gaudiya-Madhva sampradaya under one banner, to solidify preaching the message of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, as desired by His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada and Srila Thakura Bhaktivinoda and all the previous acaryas in this line." (Room Conversation, Vrindaban, October 29, 1977, 771029RC.VRN) Srila Prabhupada did not stop at merely instructing his disciples, but he went so far as to directly involve his own godbrothers, by appointing two of them onto the Trust's five man governing board:

Bhavananda: With bookstand. Prabhupada has formed a trust, the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, and its purpose is to develop Gauda-mandala-bhumi. Prabhupada's one idea is to build this darsana-mandapa at the yoga-pitha. And another is to finish Sridhara Maharaja's darsana-mandapa at his..., like that, to develop the different..., to encourage co-operation between the different Godbrothers in the temples. The members of the trust are myself and Tamala Krsna Maharaja and Giriraja, Svarupa Damodara, myself, Madhava Maharaja and Madhusudana Maharaja. Prabhupada named those members.
Prabhupada: How do you think the idea?
Jayapataka: All of your ideas, Srila Prabhupada, are perfect. I am not someone to offer opinion. But if you ask, I think that actually, especially the yoga-pitha, natha-mandira, that's a very dynamic idea, and in general it must do good.
Prabhupada: We want co-operation.
(Room conversation, Vrndavana, 6 November 1977) Srila Prabhupada was also willing for ISKCON funds to be used to erect buildings on the property of his godbrothers, and even for printing their literature:

Tamala Krsna: Yes, I think the general is already covered by this Mayapura-Vrndavana Trust committee. That's for all of India. And Gauda-mandala-bhumi is especially for encouraging the development of Gaudiya Vaisnavism in that area--Sridhara Maharaja's natha-mandira, this Yoga-pitha Bhaktivedanta Hall. Different buildings. Supposing one of your Godbrothers may have written some manuscript, he has no money. We can print some books for him so he can sell them, like that, works within the Mayapura area.
Prabhupada: That we shall fix up, what to spend.
Tamala Krsna: The Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity trustees would fix that up?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: All right.
So although Srila Prabhupada did make many negative statements about the Gaudiya Math and his godbrothers, he made many positive ones too, and his last words show unequivocally what policy he wanted to be followed.

It can sometimes be quite confusing when an acarya makes seemingly contradictory statements. Why did Srila Prabhupada appear to do so on this particular topic? For the simple reason that, by necessity, acaryas must teach their disciples in terms of time, place and circumstance:

"It is the concern of the acarya to show mercy to the fallen souls. In this connection, desa-kala-patra (the place, the time and the object) should be taken into consideration." (Adi 7.38) "The Vedas instruct us that knowledge must always be considered in terms of desa-kala-patra. Desa means 'circumstances,' kala means 'time,' and patra means 'the object.' We must understand everything by taking these three elements into consideration." (Life Comes from Life: The First Morning Walk April 18, 1973) The principle of changing the divine message out of consideration of desa-kala-patra by the acarya may also take quite extreme forms, such as those practiced by Sankaracarya and Lord Buddha. As a deliberate preaching strategy, they taught false doctrines to their disciples, for the purpose of uplifting them. This principle even applies to vaisnava acaryas too:

"These are the secrets of the acaryas. Sometimes they conceal the real purpose of the vedas and explain the Vedas in a different way. Sometimes they enunciate a different theory just to bring the atheists under their control." Madhya-lila 25.42 Therefore we can understand that Srila Prabhupada's apparently contrary statements about his godbrothers were also part of a necessary preaching strategy. However, he also cautioned us that although in his preaching a vaisnava may make strictly relative statements, that it is nevertheless the responsibility of those hearing him to be careful to extract the true essence of his message:

"Vaisnava who is preaching, it may be in a different way, according to time and place and the party. They have to change something, desa-kala-patra. *But we have to see the essence.*" Prabhupada's Lectures Srimad-Bhagavatam 1974 741008SB.MAY "The essence of devotional service must be taken into consideration, and not the outward paraphernalia." Madhya-lila: Chapter Twenty-three, Text 105

As Srila Prabhupada had so many godbrothers, their interaction with him and his disciples was a complex and potentially volatile situation. Certainly, a number of his godbrothers were enviously working against him, and he needed to safeguard his young disciples, many of whom wouldn't have been able to discriminate between the qualified and unqualified. Besides that, he was physically present as their diksa and siksa guru, for which reason there was no need for them to go outside of the society he had created. Therefore, safer for him to say: "none of you see them." Also, as an acarya, it was his duty to criticise and decry those activities of his godbrothers which were deviant, for the sake of teaching the proper standard to his disciples. Again, however, these statements were relative to desa-kala-patra, and cannot be used to definitively portray his ultimate stance towards his godbrothers, when put in perspective with everything else he had to say on the subject. When one reads Srila Prabhupada's definitions of and statements about ISKCON, then it becomes easier to understand why ultimately he was willing to involve his godbrothers within it. According to what he says, ISKCON appears to extend considerably beyond its physical manifestation, i.e. the temples and communities, and their attendant management structures. It is non-sectarian, and is prepared to embrace the world, just as its founder was. The name itself says it all: a society for Krsna consciousness. To the extent that you're Krsna conscious, you belong:

[ChiefCowpie]

"ISKCON (the International Society of Krishna Consciousness) is a non-lucrative organisation, whose purpose is to promote the well-being of human society by drawing its attention to God. We are a non-sectarian society, and our members include people from Christian, Jewish and Moslem as well as Hindu faiths. The aim of ISKCON is not to found a new religious sect, but to invoke the living entity's dormant love of God, and thus provide the human society of all faiths with a common platform of clear theistic knowledge and practice. Members of ISKCON may retain their own respective religious faiths, as ISKCON is meant to establish a clear, practical common formulation of the common ideal of all theists, and to defeat the unnecessary dogmatic wranglings that now divide and invalidate the theistic camp. This common ideal of theism is to develop love of God." (Letter to: ****** : 68-08-24 Montreal)

"A devotee sees all living entities with spiritual vision and does not discriminate on the platform of the bodily concept of life. Such qualities develop only in the association of devotees. Without the association of devotees, one cannot advance in Krsna consciousness. Therefore, we have established the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Factually, whoever lives in this society automatically develops Krsna consciousness." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twelve, Text 37

"This Krsna consciousness movement is a transcendental science, and there is no room for jealousy. This movement is meant for the paramahamsas who are completely free from all jealousy (paramam nirmatsaranam)." Nectar of Instruction: Text Six

"The Hare Krsna movement is meant for those who are serious about understanding this science. There's no question of our being some sectarian group. No. Anyone can join. Students in college can be admitted. You may be a Christian, you may be a Hindu, you may be a Muhammadan--it doesn't matter. The Krsna consciousness movement admits anyone who wants to understand the science of God." (Science of Self Realization: Chapter One :Learning the Science of the Self)

"Just by pouring water on the root of a tree, one nourishes its trunk and all of its branches, fruits and flowers, and just by supplying food to the stomach, one satisfies all the limbs of the body. Similarly, by worshiping Lord Visnu one can satisfy everyone." Krsna consciousness is not a sectarian religious movement. Rather, it is meant for all-embracing welfare activities for the world. One can enter this movement without discrimination in terms of caste, creed, religion or nationality. If one is trained to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, who is theorigin of visnu-tattva, one can become fully satisfied and perfect in all respects." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 8: Chapter Five, Text 49

"Bhagavata-dharma has no contradictions. Conceptions of "your religion" and "my religion" are completely absent from bhagavata-dharma. Bhagavata-dharma means following the orders given by the Supreme Lord, Bhagavan, as stated in Bhagavad-gita: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. God is one, and God is for everyone." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 6: Chapter Sixteen, Text 41 "Sun is neither Indian nor American. Similarly, God, Krsna, He's neither for Indian or for... He is for everyone. Sarva yonisu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayo yah, tasam mahad-yonir brahma aham bija-pradah pita. He's the father of everyone, not only human beings, but in the animals, the trees, the aquatics, everyone, all living entities. Mamaivamso jiva...This is universal. This is... This Krsna consciousness movement is therefore universal, real universal." Prabhupada's Lectures Bhagavad-gita 1972 721126BG.HYD

Srila Prabhupada's non-sectarian stance is also demonstrated in the following, wherein he implies that pure transcendental association is not confined solely within the four walls of the ISKCON institution:

"There are many societies and associations of pure devotees, and if someone with just a little faith begins to associate with such societies, his advancement to pure devotional service is rapid." (Nectar of Devotion: Chapter Nineteen :Devotional Service in Pure Love of God, p.14) Although Srila Prabhupada invited his godbrothers to work with his disciples in 1977, it was by no means the first time that he had come up with the idea:

"So far as I am concerned, I am always for co-operation. If we can co-operate, we can do tremendous service for Lord Caitanya in the matter of propagating the mission of Lord Caitanya very nicely. I am prepared to co-operate with the Gaudiya mission wholeheartedly. Soon you can negotiate about our amalgamation on a co-operatively basis, it will be great service to Srila Prabhupada." Letter to Dr Syamasundardas Brahmacari, 5-9-69 "Best thing is that all we Godbrothers work together. Then the criticism will stop, otherwise even we join together, criticism will go on. So this has been going on for the last 24 years, but everyone of us is doing his best keeping Lord Caitanya in the center. We should be satisfied so much." Letter to: Jayapataka Maharaja : 71-02-23 Gorakhpur

Since Srila Prabhupada saw ISKCON as "a non-sectarian society" whose members included Christians, Jews, Moslems and Hindus, who, moreover, were permitted to "retain their own respective religious faiths", then it is small wonder that he was willing to accommodate his own godbrothers, who were so qualified.

It is an often over-looked fact that the number of Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers instrumental in the break up of the Gaudiya Math was very small. When Srila Prabhupada denounces "the Gaudiya Math", he is by no means making a blanket condemnation of every single disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, of whom there were 60,000. In the following he explains:

"In the beginning, during the presence of Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya Astottara-sata Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada, all the disciples worked in agreement; but just after his disappearance, they disagreed. One party strictly followed the instructions of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, but another group created their own concoction about executing his desires. Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, at the time of his departure, requested all his disciples to form a governing body and conduct missionary activities co-operatively. He did not instruct a particular man to become the next acarya. But just after his passing away, his leading secretaries made plans, without authority, to occupy the post of acarya, and they split in two factions over who the next acarya would be. Consequently, both factions were asara, or useless, because they had no authority, having disobeyed the order of the spiritual master. Despite the spiritual master's order to form a governing body and execute the missionary activities of the Gaudiya Matha, the two unauthorized factions began litigation that is still going on after forty years with no decision." (Adi-lila Chapter Twelve, Text 8) So Srila Prabhupada clearly says that it was the "leading secretaries" who disobeyed Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and who ultimately "split in two factions over who the next acarya would be", beginning "litigation that is still going on after forty years with no decision." Elsewhere Srila Prabhupada has explained who the leaders of these two factions were, namely Bhakti Vilas Tirtha Maharaja of Sri Chaitanya Math, and Ananta Vasudeva of Bagh Bazaar Math. So much for the leading secretaries. But what about everyone else? Srila Prabhupada plainly says that they: "strictly followed the instructions of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura". As for Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's instruction to preach in the west, this was to Srila Prabhupada in particular. Srila Prabhupada was a unique acarya who was especially chosen, empowered and sent by the Lord to turn the tide of kali yuga. This service was particularly meant for him, and no-one else could have accomplished it. However, just because the disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati did not achieve such large scale preaching triumphs as their illustrious godbrother, for this reason alone we cannot therefore assume that every one of them was necessarily less dear to Krsna:

[ChiefCowpie]

"Krsna becomes obliged to the loving spirit of the devotee and not exactly to the service rendered. No one can serve Krsna completely. He is so complete and self-sufficient that He has no need of any service from the devotee. It is the devotee's attitude of love and affection for Krsna that makes Him obliged." Nectar of Devotion: Chapter Twenty-two: Qualities of Krsna Further Explained Rather, we should remember that they "strictly followed" their spiritual master's instructions.



What to speak of those who did, Srila Prabhupada even declared those who did not to be transcendentally situated, going so far as to compare their disputes to those that happen in the party of Srimati Radharani:

"Even amongst our God-brothers we have misunderstanding but none of us is astray from the service of Krishna. My Guru Maharaja ordered us to execute his mission combinedly. Unfortunately we are now separated. But none of us have stopped preaching Krishna Consciousness. Even if there was misunderstanding amongst the God-brothers of my Guru Maharaja none of them deviated from the transcendental loving service of Krishna. The idea is that provocation and misunderstanding may remain between one man and another. But our staunch faith in Krishna Consciousness may not allow any material disruption. Please therefore try to be sympathetic with any person even if they differ. The only qualification we have to scrutinize is if one is acting in Krishna Consciousness as far as one is able to do it. This personal grudge is not inhuman and as I have told many times, that individualism is the cause of personal misunderstanding. When such individualism is employed in the center of Krishna there is no harm even if there is personal misunderstanding. Personal misunderstanding exists even in the higher levels. There is competition of loving Krishna even in the party of Srimati Radharani." Letter to: Brahmananda : 67-11-18 Calcutta

"So far as your question about controversy amongst the disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja, that is a fact. But this controversy is not material. Just like in a national program, different political parties are sometimes in conflict and make propaganda against each other, but their central point is always service to the country. Similarly, amongst the disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati there may be some controversy, but the central point is how to preach the mission of His Divine Grace. If the central point is fixed up then there is no harm in such controversy. Every individual being must have his opinion; that is the significance of individuality, but all such differences of opinions must coincide in Krishna. In the battlefield of Kuruksetra were Arjuna and Bhisma who were fighting with one another, and because Krishna was on the side of Arjuna, sometimes Bhisma pierced the body of Krishna also with arrows. But still they remained the greatest devotees of the Lord, and Krishna accepted the friendship of Arjuna just as He accepted the inimical arrows of Bhisma in the same loving spirit." Letter to: Mandali Bhadra : 69-07-28 Los Angeles

"Among Vaisnavas there may be some difference of opinion due to everyone's personal identity, but despite all personal differences, the cult of Krsna consciousness must go on. We can see that under the instructions of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja began preaching the Krsna consciousness movement in an organized way within the past hundred years. The disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja are all Godbrothers, and although there are some differences of opinion, and although we are not acting conjointly, every one of us is spreading this Krsna consciousness movement according to his own capacity and producing many disciples to spread it all over the world." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Twenty-eight, Text 31 "Disunity between individual souls is so strong within this material world that even in a society of Krsna consciousness, members sometimes appear disunited due to their having different opinions and leaning toward material things. Actually, in Krsna consciousness there cannot be two opinions. There is only one goal: to serve Krsna to one's best ability. If there is some disagreement over service, such disagreement is to be taken as spiritual. Those who are actually engaged in the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead cannot be disunited in any circumstance." Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 4: Chapter Thirty, Text 8

Srila Prabhupada's relationship with his godbrothers is of an inconceivable nature, and very easy to misconstrue. For instance he described Srila Madhava Maharaja in the following way:



"...it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on." (Letter to Rupanuga Maharaja, 74-04-28, Tirupati) Nevertheless, a year later he allowed him to initiate his harinama disciple, and in 1977 appointed him as a governing board member on the charity trust which he had created. Srila Prabhupada may have criticised his godbrothers, but he also warned his disciples that they did not have the right to do the same. Rather, any disciple should respect the godbrothers of his guru:



"one should respect one's spiritual master's Godbrothers as one respects one's spiritual master." Adi-lila: Chapter Five, Text 147 Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati also warns of the danger of getting involved in the transcendental disputes between great vaisnavas, and taking sides:



"Those, whose judgement is made of mundane stuff, being unable to enter into the spirit of the all-loving controversies among pure devotees, due to their own want of unalloyed devotion, are apt to impute to the devotees their own defects of partisanship and opposing views." Sri Brahma samhita p.72 If pure devotees differ, then it is for their own inconceivable and transcendental reasons. It is certainly not done out of sectarian prejudice. Therefore, to project such motives onto Srila Prabhupada, by using his statements in an attempt to inculcate an attitude of prejudice in the minds of the innocent and impressionable against all Gaudiya math devotees is dishonest and duplicitous. One who does this certainly misrepresents Srila Prabhupada.



In the pages that precede this one, we have proven conclusively that Srila Prabhupada was not antagonistic to his godbrothers and their followers, and that moreover he wanted his own disciples to fully co-operate with them. However, even if we had not done this, it would still not give any more justification to the propagation of sectarian dogma against them. Such behaviour is avaisnava. As can be seen from a previous quote, Srila Prabhupada held his godbrother and sannyasa guru Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja in very high esteem. The same can be said of Srila Kesava Maharaja's own disciple, Srila Narayana Maharaja. Srila Prabhupada talked to him before passing away, of his great desire that all the disciples and grand disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati "work conjointly":

[ChiefCowpie]

In the pages that precede this one, we have proven conclusively that Srila Prabhupada was not antagonistic to his godbrothers and their followers, and that moreover he wanted his own disciples to fully co-operate with them. However, even if we had not done this, it would still not give any more justification to the propagation of sectarian dogma against them. Such behaviour is avaisnava.

As can be seen from a previous quote, Srila Prabhupada held his godbrother and sannyasa guru Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja in very high esteem. The same can be said of Srila Kesava Maharaja's own disciple, Srila Narayana Maharaja. Srila Prabhupada talked to him before passing away, of his great desire that all the disciples and grand disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati "work conjointly":

"Srila Prabhupada (Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati) said that we should preach in Europe, America. That was his desire, and his other desire was that we all work together jointly to preach".
"Yes, that is right" said Narayana Maharaja.
"I didn't waste a single moment" said Srila Prabhupada "I tried my best, and it has been successful to some extent".
Srila Prabhupada's voice was choked with emotion.
"If we work conjointly" he continued, "then as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said prthivite...sankirtana has great possibilities. My life is coming to an end. It is my desire that you all forgive me for my mistakes..."
..."Whatever instruction you give me" said Narayana Maharaja "I will follow with absolute sincerity. I consider you my guru."

Narayana Maharaja said that what Srila Prabhupada had created should be protected, and it was everyone's duty to do so. He pledged to help in whatever way he could. Regarding Srila Prabhupada's asking his godbrothers for forgiveness, Narayana Maharaja said "we never thought that you did anything wrong. On the other hand, you bless us, we need it. You never did any wrong. If someone is offended by your actions, that is his fault."

After a pause, Narayana Maharaja spoke again, this time referring to Srila Prabhupada's disciples. "They should be told that they should never get motivated by their own self-interest" he said. "They should make your mission successful."

Srila Prabhupada turned his head slowly, looking over the devotees as they gathered in more closely. Then slowly he lifted his hand, as if to call them to attention, and said "Do not fight among yourselves, I have given direction in my books." He then lowered his hand. (Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta, Vol 6, p.399-401)

Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayana Maharaja spent much time in each other's association before Srila Prabhupada departed for the west. They first met in 1947. When Srila Prabhupada received sannyasa from Srila Kesava Maharaja, Srila Narayana Maharaja performed the fire yajna, and made Srila Prabhupada's danda. When Srila Prabhupada had started ISKCON, Srila Narayana Maharaja sent him mrdangas, karatalas, books, tilak, pictures, Deities, japa mala, clothing, harmonium, pera (a sweet) etc etc. Throughout the time that Srila Prabhupada was preaching in the west, he frequently contacted Srila Narayana Maharaja, who assisted him in many ways:

"Please offer my obeisances to Srimad Narayana Maharaja. I have not heard from him in a long time. Please request him to find out a large piece of land perhaps with a house, between Mathura and Vrndavana, for purchasing." (S.P. letter 26/7/'70) Srila Prabhupada in fact wrote hundreds of letters to Srila Narayana Maharaja, most of which were unfortunately lost while in the care of ISKCON. However, from the ones which remain, a booklet has been compiled which is now available for purchase. From these few letters that we do have, the intimacy and appreciation which Srila Prabhupada felt for Srila Narayana Maharaja is very evident:

"Our relationship is certainly based on spontaneous love. That is why there is no chance of us forgetting one another. By the mercy of Guru and Gauranga may everything be auspicious for you. This is my constant prayer. >From the first time I saw you I have been your constant well-wisher. At his first sight of me, Srila Prabhupada also saw me with such love. It was in my very first darsana of Srila Prabhupada that I learned how to love" Letter from Srila Prabhupada 28th September 1966

"Because in all Gaudiya Mathas, I think that you are the real guru-sevaka, so I always correspond with you and I always give my full love and affection to you." "If I was not thinking like this and putting so much trust in you, I would never have sent you my key and my money. I have so much faith and love for you." Letter from Srila Prabhupada, New York, May 17th 1967

Srila Prabhupada entrusted Srila Narayana Maharaja with the great honour and responsibility of putting his body into samadhi. After Srila Prabhupada's disappearance, when his sons tried to stage a take-over bid of the ISKCON assets, from morning to evening for days, Srila Narayana Maharaja tirelessly testified on behalf of ISKCON in the Bombay courts.

Srila Prabhupada also specifically asked Srila Narayana Maharaja to guide his disciples in his physical absence, and to teach them the siddhanta of Gaudiya Vaisnavism as taught by Srila Rupa and Raghunath das Goswamis.

================================================== ===========If anyone would like to correspond with the author, please write to Bvnmtour@cs.com ================================================== ===========

Return tohttp://www.bvml.org/grfx/bml_logo.gif (http://www.bvml.org/index.htm)

[sleeping jiva]

BlackBillBlake: I totally agree with you. I'm not using those words in that way. I said you get the guru you deserve, therefore be faithful in Krishna and don't fall for bogus gurus. Read Prabhupada's books in their original form at http://www.asitis.com for example and that is sufficient. Prabhupada is there. Everybody think for yourself, don't fall for easy ways. There is movement of ritviks, who are truely devoted to Prabhupada. Yoha Lady sent a lot links about it. Of course, it's totally ignorant to sweep int under the carpet. Sorry, but instead of attacking me, you don't see how Chief CowPie is propaganding those same gurus. That's why I was so upset. Please ChiefCOwPie, nobody is interested in your posts. It leads to no debate...Please be tolerant and leave us alone, your ignorance make a great confusion.

[ChiefCowpie]

The Reality of Guru-Parampara and the Myth of "The Final Order"

Part one of a series of essays
by Tridandi Swami Bhaktivedanta Nemi [previously Jnana dasa (ACBSP)]



The following paper is the second in a series of articles examining some serious (indeed fatal) weaknesses in the Ritvik scenario, and pointing out some essential aspects of guru-tattva. It is meant for those who are trying to make sense of the current ISKCON GBC / Ritvik/ Gaudiya Matha polemic. [Part Two (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_2.html) Part Three (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_3.html) Part Four (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_4.html)]

Part 1: The "henceforward" bluff

The Ritviks say that there is no further need for living spiritual masters, because Srila Prabhupada has said that everyone should take initiation from him for the next ten thousand years, and all future devotees will be his direct disciples. This directly contradicts everything that Srila Prabhupada has written and taught about disciplic succession. In a gospel called "The Final Order", one of the chief Ritvik prophets acknowledges that the alleged Ritvik system is "totally unique" (i.e. devoid of sastric basis), and then proceeds to explain the Ritvik logic in some detail.

The Ritvik case rests on the letter written by Srila Prabhupada's secretary on July 9th, 1977. The letter names 11 senior disciples who were to act as Srila Prabhupada's representatives, and then states, "… Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple." Ritviks say that this word "henceforward" means that, regardless of Srila Prabhupada's physical departure, the system should be continued indefinitely, for the duration of the Krsna consciousness movement.

We can evaluate this theory using simple rules that Srila Prabhupada has given in various places in his books to help us distinguish between truth, illusion, and falsehood. We will concentrate on four of these in particular: (1) "Tell the truth"; (2) "Take the direct meaning"; (3) "Understand through sastra, not independent logic"; (4) "Support and maintain the disciplic succession."

Rule 1 is "Tell the truth": "Satyam. This word means that one should not distort the truth for some personal interest." (1) The commonsense understanding of the "henceforward" letter is that the system whereby Srila Prabhupada initiated by proxy should continue "for the time being," but obviously not after his physical departure. It clearly does not make sense to say that the word "henceforward" in this letter means "for the next ten thousand years", because it is nonsense to say, "Temple Presidents may for the next ten thousand years send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple." The "eleven representatives" obviously would not survive for ten thousand years. In fact, two have already passed away and many have already fallen down.

The Ritviks deny this commonsense understanding. The author of Final Order (henceforward referred to as AFO) says, "There is no example, either in Srila Prabhupada's 86 recorded uses, nor in the entire history of the English language, where the actual word 'henceforward' has ever meant: 'Every time period until the departure of a person who issued the order'".(2) This statement is quite false, for Srila Prabhupada himself used the word in the limited sense that AFO denies: "Henceforward you send the checks direct to me." (3) "Please write to me occasionally and as Gopala is not accustomed to reply promptly I shall henceforward write to you." (4) Srila Prabhupada also uses the word "henceforth" (which is defined as a synonym of "henceforward") in the same way: "Henceforth, all money sent to me should be sent directly to me;" (5) "[H]enceforth, as long as I am away from America and Canada…" (6)

For devotees in general, to deny this use of the word "henceforward" would indicate lack of knowledge. However, AFO claims to have studied Srila Prabhupada's use of the word "henceforward", as well as the use of the word throughout history. In his case, then, it appears to be an astonishing misrepresentation of the truth. He is directly obscuring and denying Srila Prabhupada's own clear use of words. Since he is not following Srila Prabhupada's instruction, "Tell the truth", it would not be safe to belong to a spiritual movement that depends on his teachings.

In less than ¼ of the instances on FOLIO does the word "henceforward" actually refer to an indefinite period into the future. Six times Srila Prabhupada uses the word "henceforward" to refer specifically to his own duration of life, e.g. "[H]enceforward I am adding the synonyms myself," (7) and, "I will be sending further tapes henceforward." (8) It is clear that after Srila Prabhupada's physical departure he will not in any normal sense be adding synonyms, or sending tapes.

Srila Prabhupada often used the word "henceforward" to clearly imply a set and limited time-frame. A particularly strong example is, "Anyway, rest assured that your son will not be initiated in brahmanahood at least for one year henceforward …" (9) 41 out of about 89 instances of the word (almost half of them) specifically referred to the lifetime of a particular individual: e.g. "In case you think your salary insufficient, henceforward it will be doubled." "You can chant on their beads henceforward" and "I pray Krishna that you may live henceforward happily as a householder." In 15 other instances, the word "henceforward" refers to specific, temporary, practical arrangements in a particular context, especially banking and printing.

Srila Prabhupada uses the word "henceforward" twice in his books to mean "within this section of this book", and it is used in the same sense in the Introduction to the VedaBase. With damning inconsistency, AFO himself uses the word "henceforward" in the same sense in FO: "… the GBC's most recent official handbook on initiation … (to be referred to henceforward as GII)…" (10) This is in spite of his statement that "henceforward" only implies "for an indefinite period" and has no other meaning.

Srila Prabhupada uses the word "henceforth" (synonymous with "henceforward") in the same way that he uses the word "henceforward". Of 15 instances in FOLIO, only 1 refers to an indefinite period into the future. 8 refer to the lifetime of a particular individual, including 2 referring to Srila Prabhupada himself (e.g.); 4 instances refer to specific practical arrangements in a particular context; and 1 refers to the specific context of a particular document.

SP was precise and correct in his use of the English language, and his use of the word "henceforward" (and its synonym "henceforth") follows the dictionary pattern. The Oxford English Dictionary (full version) defines "henceforward" as "From this time forward; henceforth", and gives several instances of the word being used within a specifically limited context: "THEY WERE FRIENDS HENCEFORWARD AS LONG AS GUIDO'S LIFE LASTED" (emphasis added) and "From henceforward for 1500 verses … we hear nothing more of this second person." This means that the word may be used to mean "within the present context", and specifically "within the lifetime of the person or people involved", as well as "from here on indefinitely". The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary illustrates the use of the word "henceforth" with an example that clearly refers to the lifetime of the person concerned: "But that resource would henceforth be denied him."

It is clear that the word "henceforward" may mean "from this time onwards WITHIN THE LIMITED CONTEXT IN WHICH IT IS USED". The idea that it necessarily means "more or less forever" is simply wishful thinking that has grown up in the Ritvik community and has never been checked.

Srila Prabhupada used the word "henceforward" (and its synonym "henceforth") to refer to (a) activities and situations within a limited period of time, (b) temporary practical arrangements, and (c) the lifetime of a particular individual (including himself). This supports the obvious conclusion that the so-called Ritvik arrangement should cease on Srila Prabhupada's departure, or even earlier.

AFO denies that his case depends on the word "henceforward". He says that the "henceforward" letter, being the last written instruction on initiation, supersedes all other letters and teachings. But, as we will see, the actual instruction in the letter is not to develop a new and unprecedented system of disciplic succession that flatly contradicts all of SP's previous instructions. Nor is there any authority for AFO's concocted rule that the last instruction cancels out everything else.

References

(1) BG 16.2, purport; (2) FO, p. 11; (3) Letter to Gopala Krsna: 2 February, 1970; (4) Letter to Sally: 6 November, 1965; (5) Letter to Labangalatika: 14 March, 1970; (6) Letter to Kirtanananda: 5 January, 1973; (7) Letter to: Radhavallabha: 20 October, 1975; (8) Letter to Giriraja: 5 July, 1969; (9) Letter: 27 May, 1969; (10) FO, p.3. [Continue to Part Two (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_2.html)]

[ChiefCowpie]

The "Henceforward" Bluff: Admissions

Part Two of a series of essays entitled
The Reality of Guru-Parampara and the Myth of "The Final Order"
by Tridandi Swami Bhaktivedanta Nemi [previously Jnana dasa (ACBSP)

The following paper is the second in a series of articles examining some serious (indeed fatal) weaknesses in the Ritvik scenario, and pointing out some essential aspects of guru-tattva. It is meant for those who are trying to make sense of the current ISKCON GBC / Ritvik/ Gaudiya Matha polemic. [Part One (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_1.html) Part Three (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_3.html) Part Four (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_4.html).]

Part 2: Adjustments by IRM

In my previous article I challenged IRM on their misinterpretation of the word "henceforward" in Srila Prabhupada's letter of July 9th. Specifically, they were falsely claiming that the word always and necessarily means 'from now onwards', implying an indefinite period. This false claim fuelled their propaganda that their Ritvik system should be continued after Srila Prabhupada's physical departure, and for the duration of ISKCON.

Having been challenged on their misinformation about the meaning of the word "henceforward", IRM has now backed away to a more conservative position. Therefore we agree fully with JD [abbreviation for Jnanadasa, my previous name] that sometimes, in some circumstances the word could indeed apply for just a limited time period. …. [W]e fully acknowledge that in many instances the word 'henceforward' can mean for a limited time.

As far as I know, this is the first time that they have made such an admission. At any rate, this information is certainly not available in The Final Order (TFO). In other words, IRM was not honest enough to raise this possibility until someone checked their statements and confronted them with the truth. We should note that their new statement, [[We FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE that in MANY INSTANCES…]] flatly contradicts the categorical statement in TFO that "henceforward" has "only one meaning", and only ever means "from now onwards".

Having acknowledged the new perspective on the word "henceforward", IRM still goes back to the position stated in TFO: [[We say that: 'There is no example, either in Srila Prabhupada's 86 recorded uses, nor in the entire history of the English language, where the actual word 'henceforward' has ever meant: 'Every time period until the departure of a person who issued the order'.]]

IRM's position here is false. In the first place, Srila Prabhupada himself used the word "henceforward" in precisely the sense that TFO denies, i.e. in instructions that could only be followed during his own physical lifetime, e.g. "Please write to me occasionally and as Gopala is not accustomed to reply promptly I shall henceforward write to you."[1] "Henceforward write in [the] English language."[2] "Henceforward you send the checks direct to me, because most probably I am going to close the account in Montreal."[3] "Henceforth, all money sent to me should be sent directly to me."[4]

The second reason that IRM's restated position is false is that there is no need for such a tortuous condition as "Every time period until the departure of a person who issued the order". It is enough to show that the word is often used in LIMITED contexts such as a particular person's lifetime. Srila Prabhupada wrote in one letter, "Anyway, rest assured that your son will not be initiated in brahmanahood at least for one year henceforward …"[5] This and many other statements by Srila Prabhupada obviously invalidate the false claim in TFO that "henceforward" has "only one meaning", and only ever means "from now onwards".

In my previous article, I stated, "In less than ¼ of the instances on FOLIO does the word "henceforward" actually refer to an indefinite period into the future." IRM now responds, [[Maybe so, and the July 9th directive is one such order….]] How do they know that? What divine authority do they have for such an assertion? Here is strong evidence that "the July 9th directive" is NOT "one such order". In 1972, Srila Prabhupada gave an instruction that was almost identical to the July 9th "henceforward" letter. In this case, he used the word "henceforth" (which according to the Oxford Dictionary is synonymous with "henceforward") and made it clear that it was for the LIMITED TIME period that he was not in USA.

[O]nce before I had empowered you to chant the beads on my behalf, so henceforth, as long as I am away from America and Canada, I am requesting all of the temple presidents in that zone of North America and South America to send the beads of the new devotees to you at New Vrindaban. …. Similarly, I have appointed Revatinandana Maharaja in England to chant the beads of the new devotees on European Continent. Otherwise, in other parts of the world, I shall chant them as always.[6]

What concrete evidence does IRM have that the July 9th letter is NOT for a limited period?

IRM claims, [[…our case does not depend on the word "henceforward". Even if one were to Tipex out the word 'henceforward' from the July 9th directive it would not change anything.]] If this were true, why would they emphasise the word "henceforward" so much?

The significance of deliberate deception



IRM concludes that all the arguments in my previous article "were dealt with way back in 1996." However, my previous paper made a very significant point, which IRM has not addressed adequately, and which I will now spell out again.

TFO places a great deal of emphasis on the word "henceforward", and claims that this word can only mean "from now onwards". "On the other 86 occasions that we find on Folio where Srila Prabhupada has used the word 'henceforward', nobody raised even the possibility that the word could mean anything other than 'from now onwards'. 'From now onwards' does not mean 'from now onwards until I depart'. It simply means 'from now onwards'."[7]

Now, Krishnakant, the author of TFO, has studied Srila Prabhupada's instructions carefully, and therefore knows that Srila Prabhupada VERY OFTEN used the word to refer to events in the lifetime of a specific personality, e.g. "In case you think your salary insufficient, henceforward it will be doubled."[8] "You can chant on their beads henceforward"[9] and "I pray Krishna that you may live henceforward happily as a householder."[10] Hence, the statement in TFO can only be deliberate deception, as I pointed out in my previous article.

The deliberate deception is indicated by the indirect wording of the denial in TFO. Instead of writing, "THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY that the word could mean anything other than 'from now onwards'", Krishnakant wrote, "NOBODY RAISED EVEN THE POSSIBILITY that the word could mean anything other than 'from now onwards'". This could mean, "No one has called our bluff so far, but I won't tell a direct lie in case someone calls our bluff in the future." Twice in TFO, Krishnakant uses the word "henceforward" to refer to a limited context, which again suggests that he knew perfectly well what the word actually means.

Elsewhere in TFO Krishnakant has written, "There is no example, either in Srila Prabhupada's 86 recorded uses, nor in the entire history of the English language, where the actual word 'henceforward' has ever meant: 'Every time period until the departure of a person who issued the order'".[11] This must also be deliberate deception, because Krishnakant must know that Srila Prabhupada himself obviously used the word in this sense several times. I pointed this out in my previous article, but IRM is coming back to this position again. This means that they are simply continuing their policy of deliberate deception. IRM states that there is nothing new in my last paper. That means that they do not think it is significant to point out that they have a policy of deliberate deception. However, according to Srila Prabhupada, this point IS significant. "[L]ying is the most sinful activity. Everyone should be afraid of the sinful reactions to lying, for mother earth cannot even bear the weight of a sinful liar."[12] The bull of religion has four legs, but only one is left now. That one leg is truthfulness, and it is also being destroyed. "You are now standing on one leg only, which is your truthfulness, and you are somehow or other hobbling along. But quarrel personified [Kali], flourishing by deceit, is also trying to destroy that leg."[13]

[ChiefCowpie]

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura warns us about Kali-chelas, disciples of Kali, who wear tilaka and neck-beads, but who are actually opposed to the principles of devotional service. There is no more sinister Kali-chela than someone who tries to subvert Srila Prabhupada's movement.

Krishnakant has written in TFO that we should not deviate "even a millionth of a hairsbreadth" from the parameters that Srila Prabhupada has given us. Having endorsed such noble sentiments, IRM will naturally want to cooperate in detecting and correcting any deviations, especially those that are considerably more than a millionth of a hairsbreadth.

The next article introduces Srila Prabhupada's principle of accepting direct meanings, and shows that his "henceforward" letter of July 9th DEFINITELY refers to a temporary and provisional arrangement.

References:



[1] Letter to Sally: 6 November, 1965; [2] Letter to Mangalaniloy Brahmacari: 11 June, 1966; [3] Letter to Gopala Krishna: 2 February, 1970; [4] Letter to Labangalatika: 14 March, 1970; [5] Letter: 27 May, 1969; [6] Letter to Kirtanananda: 5 January, 1973; [7] TFO, p.6; [8] C.C. Antya 9.106; [9] Letter to Bhagavan: 1 February, 1974; [10] Letter to Janis: 10 December, 1966; [11] TFO, p.11; [12] SB 8.20 Summary; [13] SB 1.17.25 [Continue to Part Three (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_3.html)]

[ChiefCowpie]

This “Henceforward” Letter Does Not Propose the “Ritvik” Process

Part Three of a series of essays entitled
The Reality Of Guru-Parampara And The Myth Of "The Final Order"
by Tridandi Swami Bhaktivedanta Nemi [previously Jnana dasa (ACBSP)

The following paper is the third in a series of articles examining some serious (indeed fatal) weaknesses in the Ritvik scenario, and pointing out some essential aspects of guru-tattva. It is meant for those who are trying to make sense of the current ISKCON GBC / Ritvik/ Gaudiya Matha polemic. [Part One (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_1.html) Part Two (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_2.html) Part Four (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_4.html)]

The story so far:

The Ritvik community base their philosophy on Srila Prabhupada’s now-famous “henceforward” letter of July 9th, 1977. They say that this letters means that Srila Prabhupada will initiate for an indefinite period after his physical departure. The Ritviks assert that the word “henceforward” necessarily implies “for an indefinite period”. However, according to the Oxford English Dictionary and Srila Prabhupada’s own use of the word, the Ritviks’ assertion is quite false. The inclusion of this false assertion in the in The Final Order (TFO) appears to be deliberate deception.

Part 2: a provisional arrangement

In the previous part of this series, I pointed out Srila Prabhupada’s principle: “Tell the truth”. The arguments about the word “henceforward” in TFO do not even pass this first test. Now I want to point out a second principle that Srila Prabhupada emphasized, and that Krishnakant, the author of TFO, repeatedly and systematically disregards: “The direct meaning is primary; indirect meanings are secondary at best.” We should always resort to the direct meaning of texts, not the indirect meanings. “The original purpose of the text must be maintained. No obscure meaning should be screwed out of it….”[1] Srila Prabhupada also states that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu “rejects” the indirect meaning of texts.[2] According to this instruction by Srila Prabhupada, we should also accept the direct meaning of what he has written, and reject secondary interpretations, unless there is some very good reason for doing so. Now let us see how this applies to the “henceforward” letter of July 9th.

The letter names eleven representatives, who were to act as “ritvik- representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations”. The letter then goes on, “Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple.”

The wording of the letter shows that it simply adjusted a system that already existed. “In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada recommending a particular devotee's initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send ….” (emphasis added) The letter did not really introduce any significant change, or introduce anything radical. The direct meaning of the letter is that it describes a system that had been going on for years. The only new thing was that letters of recommendation would go direct to the 11 representatives, instead of to Srila Prabhupada. That is all.

The Ritvik community asserts that the wording of this letter - especially the word “henceforward” - means that the Ritvik system should be continued even after Srila Prabhupada’s physical departure. However, as I pointed out in Part 1 of this series, in only a minority of cases does the word “henceforward” actually mean “for an indefinite period into the future”, and in a recent paper, IRM has now admitted this.

The word “henceforward” in this letter cannot possibly mean “for the next ten thousand years” or “for the duration of ISKCON”. If it did, the letter would mean, “Temple Presidents may for the next ten thousand years send recommendation … to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple.” Two of the “eleven representatives” have already passed away and many have fallen down. IRM points out that the GBC could add members afterwards, but this is not stated in the letter itself. If the document is as important as IRM thinks it is, why would such a meticulous manager as Srila Prabhupada leave it in such a woefully incomplete state? The direct meaning of the letter is that this is a temporary and provisional arrangement.

The clincher is the last sentence of the letter: “The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her TO SRILA PRABHUPADA…” The direct meaning here is that Srila Prabhupada must be physically present, otherwise it would not be possible to send the names “to Srila Prabhupada”. Of course, Krishnakant, the author of TFO, wants to avoid this obvious discrepancy, and begins an explanation of why we should NOT take the direct meaning of the letter. However, according to Srila Prabhupada’s own instruction, the direct meaning of his statement is sufficient for us. There is no good reason to disregard it.

To sum up, the letter clearly describes a provisional arrangement that explicitly addressed the immediate situation while Srila Prabhupada was on the planet. This is the direct meaning of the letter, and this is what we should accept, according to Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, unless there is some a priori reason for doing so. And if we accept Srila Prabhupada’s principle of taking the direct meaning, it is not possible to arrive at the Ritviks’ conclusion about this letter. One or the other has to go. I prefer to keep Srila Prabhupada’s instructions.

Not only is the meaning clear from the letter itself, but Srila Prabhupada himself clearly stated (on October 18th, 1977) that the arrangement described in the letter was temporary and provisional. The context is as follows. A question had arisen regarding the initiation of a Bengali gentleman, and Srila Prabhupada said, “So I have deputed some of you to initiate.” The word “depute” means “to appoint as a substitute, representative, or deputy”, so Srila Prabhupada was pointing out here that he had already appointed disciples to initiate on his behalf. He then referred to the list of representatives and said that Jayapataka Maharaja should perform the initiation.

Srila Prabhupada: I stop FOR THE TIME BEING. [emphasis added] Is that all right?

Tamala Krsna Maharaja: Stopped doing what, Srila Prabhupada?

Srila Prabhupada: This initiation. I have deputed my disciples. …. And if by Krsna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again, or I may not be pressed in this condition to initiate. It is not good.[3]

Srila Prabhupada’s statements, “FOR THE TIME BEING” and “And IF by Krsna’s grace I recover from this condition, THEN I shall begin again…” mean explicitly that the arrangement was provisional. Furthermore, he also states explicitly why he has made the arrangement: “… or I may not be pressed in this condition to initiate. It is not good.”

Srila Prabhupada was an expert manager.

Krishnakant himself acknowledges that the Ritvik system he has proposed is “totally unique, (at least as far as we know).” Consequently, if Srila Prabhupada had really intended to make such a radical change, he would know that it would be misunderstood by his disciples, and opposed from inside and outside his movement. He had been saying practically since the beginning of the movement that senior disciples would initiate their own disciples after his departure. They would want to know why this was no longer the case. Furthermore, his Godbrothers and other personalities outside the movement would criticize the supposed change, and create doubt and dissension in ISKCON. Accordingly, an empowered manager such as Srila Prabhupada would have warned his disciples and made sure they understood what the new process was and why he was introducing it. Actually, he never mentioned anything of the sort. Nor FOR SEVERAL YEARS did anyone suggest that this letter meant what the Ritvik community now says it means.

Given the radical nature of the alleged change, Srila Prabhupada would certainly have mentioned the Ritvik process in his will. He would have understood that there would all sorts of questions, and he would have clarified the issue for future generations. However, the Ritvik process is not mentioned in his will.

Another important point is that Srila Prabhupada’s will states that the GBC will be “the ultimate managing authority”, but the GBC has not accepted the Ritvik theory. Why not? Because he never explained it to them. This means that, according to the Ritviks, Srila Prabhupada did not manage to establish the basic principle of disciplic succession in his movement. In fact, according to them, he did not take even minimal steps to ensure that it was understood, accepted and established. In other words, the Ritvik party is indirectly accusing Srila Prabhupada of being an incompetent manager. However, I and many others accept Srila Prabhupada as brilliant in all respects. I suggest that the incompetence lies elsewhere, with those who loudly proclaim that they are “the real ISKCON”, and yet misinterpret Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, not even caring to understand that there are principles and a process for understanding them.

References:



[1] SB 1.4.1, purport; [2] C.C. Adi 7.110, purport; [3] Room Conversation: October 18, 1977, Vrindavana [Continue to Part Four (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_4.html)]

[ChiefCowpie]

The IRM's Physical Presence Phobia

Part Four of a series of essays entitled
The Reality Of Guru-Parampara And The Myth Of "The Final Order"
by Tridandi Swami Bhaktivedanta Nemi [previously Jnana dasa (ACBSP)

The following paper is the third in a series of articles examining some serious (indeed fatal) weaknesses in the Ritvik scenario, and pointing out some essential aspects of guru-tattva. It is meant for those who are trying to make sense of the current ISKCON GBC / Ritvik/ Gaudiya Matha polemic. [Part One (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_1.html) Part Two (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_2.html) Part Three (http://www.bvml.org/contemporary/BNM_3.html)]

The Ritvik system prescribed by IRM in The Final Order is based on the supposed evidence of the "henceforward" letter of July 9th. IRM claim that this letter instructs us that the Ritvik system should be continued after Srila Prabhupada's physical departure. However, this is quite untrue, because the direct meaning of the letter is quite different from IRM's artificial interpretation. (See Part Two).

IRM are ignoring the rules for understanding evidence. In a court of law the first rule for interpreting evidence is that one accepts the direct meaning. Srila Prabhupada and our acaryas have also instructed us that we should take the direct meaning of sastric statements, and that we should avoid indirect interpretations wherever possible. IRM have said that we should not deviate from Srila Prabhupada's guidelines by even a millionth of a hairsbreadth, so they should accept this principle: "Accept the direct meaning of sastric statements." We have to choose between on the one hand this principle that Srila Prabhupada gave us and on the other hand the Ritvik conclusion. To accept one is to reject the other.

IRM try to justify their unprecedented system by saying that it does not conflict with higher sastric principles, but this assertion is false. The key point here is the physical presence of the guru. SP said over and over again that we have to approach a spiritual master. Having approached him, one should inquire from him, and hear from him submissively in order to get a clear understanding.1 The direct meaning of this is that one comes into his physical proximity, but IRM avoid this direct instruction with remarkable ingenuity: "Srila Prabhupada never taught … that this physical guru must also be physically present in order to act as guru."2 They then say that the purpose of approaching the guru is to get transcendental knowledge, but we can get that from books, so no need for the physical presence of the guru. This is an example of avoiding a direct instruction in favour of an indirect interpretation.

Now, the whole Vedic tradition depends on the direct personal guidance of the guru. Great personalities such as Vidura, Arjuna, Maharaja Pariksit, Sanatana Gosvami, Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Sri Krsna (and what to speak of Srila Prabhupada himself) all physically approached their spiritual masters. Hence, we cannot doubt that the natural and standard process is for disciples to be in physical proximity with their guru. However, IRM have literally rushed in where angels fear to tread, and have tried to abolish this eternal process on the strength of their artificial, indirect interpretation of a single letter.

It is true that Srila Prabhupada adjusted the standard process, sometimes dealing through representatives, and even giving the diksa mantras by tape recorder. However, he has never instructed or even suggested that we should do the same. Therefore, we should follow the eternal process that he describes in his books, which is that the disciple has the physical association of the guru.

SP often used the expression "go to" the spiritual master, which is a direct translation of the word abhigacchet. The direct meaning of this word abhigacchet is that one has to physically approach the spiritual master, which naturally requires his physical presence.

One may say that one can "approach the spiritual master" by reading SP's books. However, this is an indirect interpretation, and not the direct meaning. The word abhigacchet does not mean "to read books". SP certainly said that we should read his books, but he also said that reading books by oneself is not enough. "Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in spiritual life. One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge."3 "One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books."4 One cannot study medical books at home "by one's own intellectual capacity. …. Similarly, Srimad-Bhagavatam, the postgraduate study of the science of Godhead, can only be learned by studying it at the feet of a realized soul like Srila Vyasadeva."5

SP emphasized the actual physical interaction between the guru and disciple by comparing it to going to a physician,6 or going to a technician with a machine that requires repairing.7 The direct meaning of "going to" a physician or a technician is to physically approach them. SP also explained that one must establish a direct, personal relationship with the@æàÒäÒèêÂØ@ÚÂæèÊäX@Âæ@ÞÜÊ@îÞêØÈ@ÈÞ@îÒèÐ@ÂÜ@ÒÜæè äêÆèÞä@ÒÜ@ÂÜ@ÂÆÂÈÊÚÒÆ@ÊæèÂÄØÒæÐÚÊÜè\xæêà|px^æêà|@ x |¦ @ÚÂÜòX@ÚÂÜò@èÒÚÊæ@æÂÒÈ@èÐÂè@îÊ@ÐÂìÊ@èÞ@ÐÊÂä@DÌäÞÚ@ èÐÊ@ØÞèêæ@ÚÞêèÐD@ÂÜÈ@DÌäÞÚ@èÐÊ@ØÞèêæ@ØÒàæD@ÞÌ@èÐÊ@ àêäÊ@ÈÊìÞèÊÊ\xæêà|rx^æêà|@�Ê@ÞÌèÊÜ@êæÊÈ@èÐÊ@àÐäÂæÊ @DÂêäÂØ@äÊÆÊàèÒÞÜD\@D¬ÊÈÒÆ@ÖÜÞîØÊÈÎÊ@Òæ@ÆÂØØÊÈ@æäê èÒX@ØÊÂäÜÒÜÎ@Äò@ÂêäÂØ@äÊÆÊàèÒÞÜ\Dxæêà|b`x^æêà|@DžÜ Ê@Úêæè@ØÊÂäÜ@èÐÊ@èäÂÜæÆÊÜÈÊÜèÂØ@æêÄÔÊÆè@Äò@æêÄÚÒææ ÒìÊ@ÂêäÂØ@äÊÆÊàèÒÞÜ@ÌäÞÚ@èÐÊ@äÒÎÐè@æÞêäÆÊæ\Dxæêà|b bx^æêà|@D¨ÐÊäÊ@Òæ@ÜÞ@ÞèÐÊä@îÂò\Dxæêà|bdx^æêà|x |žÜÊ@ÚÂò@say that reading is equivalent to hearing, but SP many times emphasized the specific importance of the ears as receptive senses.13 "Therefore one is required to approach the proper spiritual master with receptive ears only, and thus divine existence is gradually realized.14 "The favor of the spiritual master is not received through any other part of the body but the ears."15 The word "hearing" literally means that we should actually hear. SP is not just talking about reading transcendental literatures.

Of course, we should read Srila Prabhupada's books, but we should also understand that the original Vedic process is to hear directly from the self-realised soul. SP many times said that we have to hear the book bhagavata from the person bhagavata.16 This is the direct meaning of SP's statements, so it is useless to try to institute a system that dispenses with the physical presence of the guru.

One may object, "We can use aural reception to hear from tape recorders." However, SP emphasizes over and over again that we have to hear from the spiritual master's mouth and from the spiritual master's lips. He said, "From his mouth one has to hear,"17 but not, "From his tapes we have to hear." SP himself contradicted the idea that the physical recordings of the pure devotee is as spiritually potent as the pure devotee's original sound vibration. "A gramophone machine will not do."18 "A gramophone will not help. …. If you want to read Srimad-Bhagavatam, you must approach a person who is life living Bhagavata."19 "Gramophone or tape record speaker, that will not be [effective]."20 SP explained that recorded sound vibration is not as spiritually potent as the sound vibrated directly by the pure devotee because the recording is his "separated energy".21 "The separated energy can be understood from a practical example. I compose books by speaking into a Dictaphone, and when the Dictaphone is replayed, it appears that I am speaking personally, but actually I am not."22 SP said directly, "When you play back it will speak just like I am speaking, but I am not there."23 "And when I speak directly, that is not separated energy."24 Hence, the recording of SP is not as spiritually potent as when SP spoke directly and personally.

[ChiefCowpie]

IRM maintain that it is sufficient to read SP's books and hear his tapes, but the direct meaning of SP's own statements nullifies this idea. IRM point out that SP often gave initiation through representatives or by tape. This is true, but SP does not give this in his books as a procedure that we should follow. We have to accept the direct meaning of his statements to find out the process that is meant for us.

SP describes other aspects of the guru-disciple relationship that absolutely require the physical presence of the guru. The spiritual master has to give the disciple personal instructions and guidance regarding service, according to the disciple's individual situation and stage of life.25 The spiritual master also has to be expert in engaging different devotees according to their propensities.26 "Every one of us has got a certain amount of good energy derived from Krishna, and when that energy is employed under the expert direction of Spiritual Master, one's life becomes successful. That is the secret of Krishna Consciousness."27 Mantras are to be heard directly in the ear from the spiritual master, which also requires his physical presence.28 It is true that SP gave initiation through tape recordings, but he never describes this process in his books. SP could use tape recorders when he was physically present, but that does not mean that we can use his tapes to the same effect when he is physically absent. SP was empowered to adjust the process for practical purposes when he was present, but he never says in his books (or even in the "henceforward" letter) that we can adjust the process that he has given in his books.

The guru has to chastise the disciple, because we cannot see the material attachments that we have to give up. "If we actually want detachment from this material world, we should be prepared to accept such cutting words from the spiritual master. Compromise and flattery have no effect where strong words are required."29 This is the natural position of the teacher,30 and it requires his physical presence and physical communication.

IRM points out that many of SP's disciples had little if any direct contact with him. This is true, but they were supposed to get guidance from disciples who had more association, so in any case, the principle of association was being followed. SP was physically present, and devotees were supposed to cooperate with their authorities, who were supposed to get direct guidance from SP.

IRM, in a reply to my first article, wrote, "When trying to understand an instruction one will naturally consider the purpose behind it." Now, what is the intention behind all these statements that Srila Prabhupada has made? It is clearly that the disciple should have the physical association of the guru.

SP instructed us that we should take the direct meaning of sastric statements, and reject indirect interpretations. IRM have tried to justify their interpretation of the "henceforward" letter by "proving" that there is no need for a guru who is physically present. However, their attempt depends on indirect interpretations throughout. Hence, according to SP's instructions, it should be rejected.

IRM themselves are living proof that their manufactured process does not work. They are using a process that is fundamentally flawed to try to justify an original thesis (their interpretation of the "henceforward" letter) that is fundamentally flawed. Naturally, then, every step of their argument is also flawed, as we will show. Their "logic of the final order" is invalid, and their conclusions about diksa show that they are clueless about the Gaudiya process for passing on the essence of our sampradaya. All this can only be rectified by sadhu-sanga, but IRM are unwilling to accept either sadhu-sanga, or the conclusion that it is necessary. The cause of IRM's confused conclusions is that they have dispensed with the association of living bhagavatas.

My next paper will point out IRM's spectacular misunderstanding of the diksa process.

References:

1 [Dialectical spiritualism: Carl Jung]; Bg 2.7, purport; Bg 4.34, purport; and dozens of other references 2 FO, p.67 3 [Bg 4.34, purport] 4 [C.C. Antya 7.53, purport] 5 [C.C. SB 2.1.8, purport] 6 [Lecture: Los Angeles, July 1, 1971] [Lecture: New York, July 11, 1976] 7 [TLK Vs 4] 8 MoG 1 9 [SB 4.29.39-40, purport] [BBD 3: Liberation from Material Planets] [SB 4.20.25, purport] [SB 7.5.23-24, purport] 10 [Bg 15.19, purport] 11 [SB .1.5, purport] See also [ Lecture: San Diego, July 1, 1972] 12 [Lecture: October 26, 1966] 13 [SB 3.6.17, purport] [SB 3.26.32, purport] [C.C. Adi 13.123, purport] [Lecture: Bombay, April 12, 1974] [Lecture: Los Angeles, June 17, 1972] [Lecture: Manila, October 12, 1972] 14 [SB 1.2.32, purport] 15 [SB 3.22.7, purport] 16 SB 1.2.19, purport; Antya 5.131, purport; Lectures in Miami, February 27, 1975; Los Angeles, December 28, 1973; Los Angeles, June 20, 1972; Vrndavana, October 28, 1972; Miami, February 27, 1975; and many, many more 17[Lecture: Caracas, February 22, 1975] 18[Lecture: Rome, May 27, 1974] [ Lecture: Los Angeles, December 6, 1973] [Lecture: Chicago, July 8, 1975] 19[Lecture: Rome, May 27, 1974] 20[Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius] 21[Lecture: Vrndavana, August 10, 1974] [Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.4 -- Vrndavana, August 10, 1974] [Dialectical Spirituality: Thomas Aquinas] [Conversation: October 20, 1968, Seattle] 22 Adi 7.119, purport 23 [Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971] 24 [Lecture: Gorakhpur, February 14, 1971] 25 [S.B. 1.2.24? purport] 26 CC Adi 1.35, purport; Conversation: September 21, 1973, Bombay; Letter to Sivananda: 11th November, 1968 27 Letter to Nathan Baruch: 7 August, 1968 28 [SB 4.8.54, purport] 29 [Perfection of Yoga] 30 [TLK Vs 28] BG 2.11, purport;

[BlackBillBlake]

BlackBillBlake: I totally agree with you. I'm not using those words in that way. I said you get the guru you deserve, therefore be faithful in Krishna and don't fall for bogus gurus. Read Prabhupada's books in their original form at http://www.asitis.com (http://www.asitis.com/) for example and that is sufficient. Prabhupada is there. Everybody think for yourself, don't fall for easy ways. There is movement of ritviks, who are truely devoted to Prabhupada. Yoha Lady sent a lot links about it. Of course, it's totally ignorant to sweep int under the carpet. Sorry, but instead of attacking me, you don't see how Chief CowPie is propaganding those same gurus. That's why I was so upset. Please ChiefCOwPie, nobody is interested in your posts. It leads to no debate...Please be tolerant and leave us alone, your ignorance make a great confusion.
I am not attacking you personally at all. I am just concerned that others may suffer the same fate as freinds of mine who were involved with bogus gurus in the past.
As for chief cowpie's posts - they are so long I doubt many will bother to wade through them.

[ChiefCowpie]

maybe lots of folks won't read it but i do hope that if one is gonna look into ritvik vada for diksa, they should be aware that its nonsadhu, nonsastra and nonguru

there are lots of nice...great sadhus out there to guide one in one's spiritual life and yes as sleeping jiva writes, just chant Hare Krishna and one will find one's teacher...but too, to chant Hare Krishna means to do so sincerely and without offense

[sleeping jiva]

as it is to take instructions from a non-devotee as Chief CowPie is. Prabhupada gave very clear instructions, if those guys don't accept him, how come they speculate about his words? We know what happened, when this instruction was not carried: rapes, drugs, problems with law. Judge by the results, not by dry speculations.

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

There's an old saying that a priest used to tell me when ever I started freaking out about Vaisnava politics and guru wars...

"KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID!"

Chant, JUST DO IT!!

[ChiefCowpie]

we also have to explore the nature of Krishna and his being a convicted butter thief

[sleeping jiva]

We are not God. If we were God, how come we have all this material desires? God is absolute and devoid of ignorance. Do you know past, present, future? then you're not God. Every Krishna's deed is transcendental, please don't put Krishna down by presenting him as an ordinary being. Chant ChiefCowPie, that is way more beneficial than speculations.

[ChiefCowpie]

ummm.... or should i say ommmmm.... where did i say Krishna was an ordinary being...or whatever led you to conclude that? i did say he was a butter thief and hence he is affectionately out of a sense of deep convictions known by his devotees as Gopala or the Butter Thief

sleeping jiva, although we have different understandings of guru tattva, let's put these understandings aside and as others have encouraged, talk about Krishna

have a haribol day, ys Chief

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

THE 108 NAMES OF LORD KRSNA




THE 108 NAMES OF LORD KRSNA:
1. om sri-krsnaya namah Om! Obeisance to the all-attractive Shri Krishna.
2. om kamala-nathaya namah the Lord of LakSmI, KamalA.
3. om vasudevaya namah the all-pervading Lord.
4. om sanatanaya namah the eternal Lord.
5. om vasudevatmajaya namah the son of Vasudeva.
6. om punyaya namah who is consummate piety.
7. om lila-manusa-vigrahaya namah who enacts. pastimes of humanlike form.
8. om srivatsa-kaustubha-dharaya namah bearer of ShrIvatsa and kaustubha.
9. om yasoda-vatsalaya namah the object of YazodA's maternal affections.
10. om haraye namah Hari, who takes away.
11. om caturbhujatta-cakrasi-gada-sankhambujayudhaya namah in whose four hands are the wheel, club, conch, and lotus weapons.
12. om devaki-nandanaya namah delight/son of DevakI.
13. om srisaya namah Lord of ZrI (LakSmI).
14. om nanda-gopa-priyatmajaya namah dear son of the cowherd Nanda.
15. om yamuna-vega-samharine namah who checked the flow of the YamunA.
16. om balabhadra-priyanujaya namah dear younger brother of Balabhadra.
17. om putana-jivita-haraya namah who tookm the life of PUtanA.
18. om sakatasura-bhanjanaya namah who decimated the cart demon (ZakaTAsura) .
19. om nanda-vraja-jananandine namah delighter of Nanda & the other people of Vraja.
20. om sac-cid-ananda-vigrahaya namah whose body is being, cognizance, and bliss.
21. om navanita-viliptangaya namah whose limbs are smeared with fresh butter.
22. om navanita-nataya namah who dances for butter.
23. om anaghaya namah about whom nothing is impure or repulsive.
24. om navanita-navaharaya namah whose first food was fresh butter.
25. om mucukunda-prasadakaya namah who graced Mucukunda.
26. om sodasa-stri-sahasresaya namah Lord of 16,000 women
27. om tribhangi-madhurakrtaye namah the sweet, threefold-bending form.
28. om suka-vag-amrtabdhindave namah the moon (produced out of) of the nectar-ocean of Zukadeva GosvAmi's words.
29. om govindaya namah who pleases His cows, land & senses.
30. om yoginam pataye namah Lord of the yogIs.
31. om vatsa-palana-sancarine namah who goes about caring for calves.
32. om anantaya namah the unlimited.
33. om dhenukasura-mardanaya namah who beat up the ass-demon DhenukAsura.
34. om trni-krta-trnavartaya namah who made short work of the whirlwind TRNAvarta.
35. om yamalarjuna-bhajanaya namah who broke the two Arjuna trees.
36. om uttala-tala-bhetre namah who broke all the big, tAla trees (killing Dhenuka).
37. om tamala-syamalakrtaye namah who is blackish like a TamAla tree.
38. om gopa-gopisvaraya namah Lord of the gopas and gopIs.
39. om yogine namah the YogI.
40. om koti-surya-sama-prabhaya namah bright as millions of suns.
41. om ilapataye namah Lord of IlA, the earth.
42. om parasmai jyotise namah the Supreme light.
43. om yadavendraya namah king of the Yadu clan.
44. om yadu-dvahaya namah the preeminent leader of the Yadus.
45. om vanamaline namah wearing a garland of forest flowers.
46. om pita-vasase namah wearing yellow garments.
47. om parijatapaharakaya namah who stole the parijAta flower.
48. om govardhanacaloddhartre namah who held up the Govardhana mountain.
49. om gopalaya namah protector of cows, GopAla.
50. om sarva-palakaya namah protector of everything.
51. om ajaya namah birthless.
52. om niranjanaya namah the unblemished Lord.
53. om kama-janakaya namah who incites the gopIs. desires.

[sleeping jiva]

well, it was me, who suggested it and I have nothing against it :). I was explaining the nature of Krishna -even though he appeared to be ordinary being, all his deeds are transcendental.

haribol!

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

54. om kanja-locanaya namah lotus-eyed.
55. om madhughne namah slayer of the demon Madhu.
56. om mathura-nathaya namah Lord of MathurA.
57. om dvaraka-nayakaya namah the hero of DvArakA.
58. om baline namah the strong Lord.
59. om vrndavananta-sancarine namah who loiters about the outskirts of VRndAvana.
60. om tulasi-dama-bhusanaya namah who wears a TulasI garland.
61. om syamantaka-maner hartre namah who appropriated the SyAmantaka jewel.
62. om nara-narayanatmakaya namah the selfsame Nara-nArAyaNa.
63. om kubjakrstambara-dharaya namah who bears the sandal paste taken from KubjA.
64. om mayine namah magician, master of MAyA.
65. om parama-purusaya namah Supreme person.
66. om mustikasura-canura-malla-yuddha-visaradaya namah who expertly fought the wrestlers MuSTika & CANUra.
67. om samsara-vairine namah enemy of material existence.
68. om kamsaraye namah KaMsa's enemy.
69. om muraraye namah Mura's enemy.
70. om narakantakaya namah who dispensed the demon Naraka.
71. om anadi-brahmacarine namah the eternal brahmacArI.
72. om krsnavyasana-karsakaya namah KRSNa, who draws one away from attachment to vice.
73. om sisupala-siras-chetre namah who split the nhead of ZizupAla.
74. om duryodhana-kulantakaya namah who ended the dynasty of Duryodhana.
75. om vidurakrura-varadaya namah who benedicted Vidura & AkrUra.
76. om visvarupa-pradarsakaya namah who displayed the universal form.
77. om satya-vace namah who speaks the truth.
78. om satya-sankalpaya namah whose determination is fact.
79. om satyabhama-rataya namah who is predisposed toward SatyabhAmA.
80. om jayine namah the conqueror.
81. om subhadra-purvajaya namah who appeared before SubhadrA.
82. om visnave namah Lord ViSNu.
83. om bhisma-mukti-pradayakaya namah who gave liberation to BhISma.
84. om jagad-gurave namah preceptor of the worlds.
85. om jagannathaya namah Lord of the universe.
86. om venu-nada-saradaya namah expert in playing His flute.
87. om vrsabhasura-vidhvamsine namah who destroyed the demon VRSabhAsura.
88. om banasura-karantakaya namah who vanquished BANAsura's arms.
89. om yudhisthira-pratisthatre namah who installed King YudhiSThira.
90. om barhi-varhavatamsakaya namah whose crest is decorated with peacock feathers.
91. om parthasarathaye namah charioteer of PArtha (Arjuna).
92. om avyaktaya namah the Unmanifest.
93. om gitamrta-mahodadhaye namah great nectar-ocean of gItA.
94. om kaliya-phani-manikya-ranjita-sri-padambujaya namah whose beautiful lotus feet danced on the jeweled hoods of the KAliya serpent.
95. om damodaraya namah bound up at the waist.
96. om yajna-bhoktre namah the enjoyer of (everyone else's) sacrifices.
97. om danavendra-vinasakaya namah destroyer of the leading demons.
98. om narayanaya namah Lord NArAyaNa, ViSNu.
99. om para-brahmane namah the Supreme absolute Truth.
100. om pannagasana-vahanaya namah whose mount (GaruDa) devours snakes.
101. om jala-kridasamasakta-gopi-vastrapaharakaya namah who stole the gopIs clothing while they played in the water.
102. om punya-slokaya namah whose poetic depictions are virtuous.
103. om tirtha-karaya namah creator of holy places.
104. om veda-vedyaya namah the Vedas, and what is known by them.
105. om daya-nidhaye namah repository of compassion.
106. om sarva-bhutatmakaya namah the self of all created beings.
107. om sarva-graha-rupine namah the form of everyone's fate.
108. om parat-paraya namah transcendental even to the transcendental.

[gdkumar]

It is all His Leela and His Maya.
One can go above(beyond) these only after taking part in the divine game of illusions. We just can not say it is all maya and do not believe this and that.
Maya is not without Him.

All our existence is maya because we are all in transition and our existence is not eternal. Then should we all ignore everything including ourselves and others ?

We should not, because after receiving knowledge from Him (the most kind,benevolent,merciful and compassionate), we understand that we are Him only as souls and we never perish. That is why after receiving knowledge we see ourselves in others(in the same form of souls) and we lose all sorts of dislikes and hatred towards others. Because we can not hate ourselves. We become quiet, we become premee(Lovers), we love everything that catches our eyes. Prem comes inside us, tears incessantly roll down.

Then we see only good parts of others, ignore their bad sides. It takes time but the others also slowly and unknowingly change and become all good. It never fails because when you never see the bad in others the question of raising annoyance and hatred does not come.

It is a process of "Induction" and it never fails. This is what we achieve by doing Sat-sang (Sadhu-sang). Chanting does, undoubtedly , everything. But
chanting without love does not yield expected results.

With love............Kumar.

[ChiefCowpie]

http://members.aol.com/Gauridas/vjs.gif

"Visnujana's Disappearance"

Back Home (http://members.aol.com/Gauridas/index.htm)

This is the story of Visnujana Swami's disappearance from this material world, back to Godhead. I have talked to witnesses that heard and saw some of the things that led up to Visnujana's alleged suicide. Visnujana Maharaja was a very advanced sanyasi and he enlivened living entities moving and non-moving all over America and beyond. Before Visnujana joined the Hare Krishna Movement back in the 60's he had separated from his wife and daughter. He talked to them at the 1975 San Francisco Rathayatra for about an hour. Visnujana heard that it was considered a 'falldown' for him to talk to his ex-wife since he was a sanyasi. Although I'm sure Visnujana was pure in his intentions; he still felt guilty as charged. This bothered him for quite some time. He came to India for the 1976 Goura-pournima festival. Visnujana Swami approached Srila Prabhupada who was walking on his rooftop and asked him what a sanyasi should do if he 'falls down'. Srila Prabhupada answered that like Chota Haridas he should commit suicide. There were quite a few devotees crowded around Srila Prabhupada as he walked. Srila Prabhupada hesitated for a moment and continued; but in this age the atonement is to just re-engage in devotional service. Visnujana Swami didn't hear this part. He thought Srila Prabhupada had already answered his question and he faded to the back of the crowd. That night Visnujana disappeared. He went to where Chota Haridas, from Chaitanya lila, committed suicide at Prayag and paid a few sadhus to help him with the ultimate sacrifice. They chanted special mantras so that he would not talk a 'ghost body.' Then rocks were tied to his cloth and he jumped off the boat into the Holy Waters. The Sadhus went to the New Delhi temple and told them about the 'white sanyasi' and what had happened. As the news spread around the world we were/are all deeply saddened by the event.

"Srila Prabhupada's Reaction"

Srila Prabhupada was sitting in his new quarters in Bombay when Tamal Krsna Maharaja entered. He began to tell Srila Prabhupada about the disappearance of Visnujana Maharaja. TKG said that Visnujana had not applied for a new passport to leave India and he was sure the 'white sanyasi' that the sadhus who went to the Delhi temple, talked about was Visnujana Maharaja. At this point Srila Prabhupada appeared to weep. He turned his head and gazed out the window. He said, "He did not have to do that". TKG asked if Srila Prabhupada knew where Visnujana was. Srila Prabhupada said, "Visnujana was very advanced; he's still chanting Hare Krishna. He's very advanced"! It was obvious that Srila Prabhupada did not want to talk about it anymore as he tearfully gazed out the window. About two weeks later Srila Prabhupada told us that Visnujana was chanting to him in his dreams. (Just like Chota Haridas who chanted for Lord Chaitanya.) I felt good hearing this from Srila Prabhupada. Later I also had a dream about Visnujana. I was following him up a mountain trail when he stopped and turned to me and told me to wait. He said I was not ready to go yet. I stood and watched as my first spiritual mentor disappeared up the trail like Maharaja Yudthistira.

For Visnujana; Jayananda and then Srila Prabhupada to leave the planet was a great loss for all of us. We can only remember their great pastimes and gain inspiration from that. Hopefully when it's time we'll be fortunate enough to join them again.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all of his devotees!

[ChiefCowpie]

http://members.aol.com/Gauridas/ptkt.gif"Visnujana In Berkeley"

Visnujana and the R.D.T.S.P. was always exciting. When we were in Berkeley in the summer of 74 we performed sankirtan at the front of the university every day for about 2 weeks. There was one Christian man preaching fire and brimstone every day. He was about 6'4" & 250#s. His voice was as loud as our amplified kirtan and he was really an agitation to the devotees. The bus driver and some of the others waited to force him to leave but Visnujana wouldn't let them. He tolerated this man day after day until he went a little too far.

The man had a cane with him and raising it up he declared that we were worshipping idols and that he could break the idols into a thousand pieces. Visnujana had been blissfully playing his harmonium but when he heard that he poped up like Nasringadeva; grabbing his rather large dunda from the side of the alter he charged the shocked Christian. The man looked like death personified was approaching. He turned and ran as fast as he could down the street. All we could see was Visnujana hitting him back and forth with his danda all the way down the street. Needless to say the man never returned. My feelings for Visnujana Maharaja increased more and more the whole year that I traveled with him.

[ChiefCowpie]

http://members.aol.com/Gauridas/beach.gifBack Home (http://members.aol.com/Gauridas/index.htm)

"Visnujana in Key West"

Traveling on Sri Sri Radha Damodara's bus was always an adventure. There was hardly a dull moment. In the winter months we traveled in the southern states and in the summer the north. In the winter of 1974 we were in Florida. We left most of the devotees in Ft. Lauderdale and took a small crew for an sankirtan outing in Key West.



There is a famous place where people gather to watch the sunset. It's also one of the only places where the sunrise and sunset can be observed from the same place.

(at different times of course)
We pulled up to the site about an hour before sunset. Alot of people had started to gather already for the evening ritual. Some of the people noticed us and began to jeer. They didn't want us interfering in their sense gratification I guess. Tamal Krishna Maharaja expressed reservations about setting up in such a situation. Visnujana Swami however was never dissuaded from spreading the glories of the Holy Names and assured us that it would be ok. We didn't drive hundreds of miles for nothing. We set up and started to chant. A few of the people continued to mock at us. Some came over and sarcastically danced with beers in their hands. Visnujana Swami stopped the kirtan and in his esoteric and amiable voice he told them that we wanted them to dance with us but could they leave their beers elsewhere. They left laughing and we didn't expect them back. Within an hour more and more of the hundreds of people had turned from the upcoming sunset to join our kirtan. Finally it seemed everyone on the whole dock was dancing and chanting with us. Even the guys from before had rejoined us. (Probably because all of the girls had!) As the sun set beautifully in the distance hardly anyone noticed. They were absorbed in the sunrise of Sri Chaitanya's Hari Nama Sankirtan Mission. I saw a potentially dangerous situation turn into a spiritual festival of love of God. Visnujana Swami did this day after day. It was amazing. His heart was so pure and he was so humble that he had a positive influence on everyone who was fortunate enough to come in contact with him.
All glories to the mission of Sri Sri Guru & Gauranga!!!
The bus program was so successful. Why don't we repeat history? It's tried and true!
Ooooom namo Bhagavate Vasudeviya!

[ChiefCowpie]

It was like he came to New York and they said, "No money, no men, no trucks." The truck they gave us, the gas pedal broke on it. So Jayananda hooked up...it was one of those trucks where the engine's right next to you. They took off the cover, they put a block of wood on the carburetor, you put your heel on the carburetor, and you tied a string to your toe and the toe was hooked to the gas. You'd work the clutch and the brake with your left foot, and a big stick was here and you'd be driving with the toe. - Murli-Krsna dasa (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/Muralikrsna.htm)

This was happening all the time, every day, so many ordinary people were charmed by Jayananda's big and golden heart, and their lives were changed (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/hyperlinks/hyperlink5.htm#changed). If it was not Ratha-yatra, then it was the Govardhana Hill festival in San Diego, or the Santa Cruz festival (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/hyperlinks/hyperlink6.htm#festival), or the Berkeley festival. Jayananda always had a project of some upcoming festival and feast.

Jayananda was there for so many people. Young, old, made no difference. He was there for the seven-year-old boy that Jiva­dhara spoke about, how Jayananda told him of Krishna and they chanted and danced, and then Jayananda gave initiation (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/hyperlinks/hyperlink6.htm#initiate) to the boy and gave him the name of Parameshvara. The boy was ecstatic and painted one of Lord Jagannatha's wheels. From chapter 12 (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/jayanet12.htm)

Everyone was a nectar hound, as far as they could push it. Mostly the senior devotees could remain in Prabhupada's room for a long time, and a few other lucky ones. But ... there was a blatant non-presence, someone was very conspicuous by his absence – Jayananda was not there, hardly at all. Finally Srila Prabhupada articulated his concern, “Where is Jayananda (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/hyperlinks/hyperlink5.htm#where)?” From chapter six (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/jayanet6.htm).

Jayananda's face winced, and he looked down and said with very deep conviction, “No ... I'm too fallen ... my relationship with my spiritual master ... is through my service (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/hyperlinks/hyperlink5.htm#serv)!” From chapter six (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/jayanet6.htm).

We were both aware of the short time we had left with Jayananda. I wrote back and told Jayananda that he was “going back to Godhead (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/hyperlinks/hyperlink2.htm#back),” and cited the verse in Srimad Bhagavatam: “ante narayana smrtih...” [click on "back to Godhead" for what Srila Prabhupada said about the origin of the soul]

From chapter 5 (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/jayanet5.htm)- ....he turned and noticed a picture of Srila Prabhupada at the head of the bed, propped up by the pillow. Jayananda then explained how he had never had such a nice bed like this (as a devotee), and how he thought it was more appropriate that his spiritual master Srila Prabhupada should enjoy the bed. I tremble as I write this. Jayananda gave his nice bed to his beloved Gurudeva, in great love and devotion, and laid his cancer-riddled body on the floor in the small space in front of the bed. more (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/jayanet5.htm#more)



From chapter 4 (http://www.geocities.com/visoka123/visoka/Jayananda/jayanet4.htm)-<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

It is all His Leela and His Maya.
One can go above(beyond) these only after taking part in the divine game of illusions. We just can not say it is all maya and do not believe this and that.
Maya is not without Him.

All our existence is maya because we are all in transition and our existence is not eternal. Then should we all ignore everything including ourselves and others ?

We should not, because after receiving knowledge from Him (the most kind,benevolent,merciful and compassionate), we understand that we are Him only as souls and we never perish. That is why after receiving knowledge we see ourselves in others(in the same form of souls) and we lose all sorts of dislikes and hatred towards others. Because we can not hate ourselves. We become quiet, we become premee(Lovers), we love everything that catches our eyes. Prem comes inside us, tears incessantly roll down.

Then we see only good parts of others, ignore their bad sides. It takes time but the others also slowly and unknowingly change and become all good. It never fails because when you never see the bad in others the question of raising annoyance and hatred does not come.

It is a process of "Induction" and it never fails. This is what we achieve by doing Sat-sang (Sadhu-sang). Chanting does, undoubtedly , everything. But
chanting without love does not yield expected results.

With love............Kumar.
Kumar! It makes me smile to see that you have come back to this thread...I, and I'm sure many of the others, have missed your kind words and beautiful insight....

I agree...we should see the good in others...and we cannot say that there isn't because if we are all a part of Krsna than we are all good...its just a matter of whether or not we chose to accept this and live up to what we really are...

[ChiefCowpie]

SvgGrdnBeauty, i noticed you live in new jersey...my guru is coming to nyc in two weeks and for sure that a spiritual seeker having but a moments association with this great sadhu will have great benefits


http://www.geocities.com/www0db0www/amma1page1.jpg


http://www.geocities.com/www0db0www/amma2page1.jpg
Mother Amritananda is affectionately known as Amma or Mother and she is for sure one of the hardest working people on the planet besides Lord Shiva who catches the Ganges waters as they cascade down from the heavenly planets as daily she greets thousands with healing hugs as they flock to see her

Home (http://www.ammachi.org/) > Tours (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/) > Amma Tours (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/) > N. America (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/n_america.html) > New York (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/new-york.html)

New York



Three days of public programs will be held in New York between July 17 and 19.

Public Programs (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/new-york.html#PP) - July 17, 18 & 19 (all day)


New York City Information (http://www.ammany.org/summertour.htm) - Check the New York satsang website for information on directions, hotel rates and more.
Program Information: 212.714.5445 / Website (http://www.ammany.org/)
Email: satsang@AmmaNY.org (satsang@AmmaNY.org)

http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/images/cldottemp_000.gifJuly 17 - 18
Sat . - Sun.



Manhattan Center (http://www.ammany.org/summertour.htm)
311 W. 34th Street
New York, NY - 10001


10:00 am &
7:30 pm

Free Public Program (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/public-program.html)

July 19
Monday


Manhattan Center (http://www.ammany.org/summertour.htm)
311 W. 34th Street
New York, NY - 10001

10:00 am & Devi Bhava**
at 6:30 pm

Free Public Program (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/public-program.html)

[sleeping jiva]

ChiefCowPie: thanx for your stories about Vishnujana :)

as for a mother, your guru, nothing about Krishna mentioned on her website -how come?


gdkumar: no. we should love Krishna first, then love to other people will come naturally. All love to people without Krishna consciousness is egotism. The advanced people, who are positioned in this quality of goodness, they know that the results of their love to others will be beneficial, but yet it is an imprisonment in this world. Devotees of Krishna, they go beyond goodness. To see Supersoul in everybody that means to see him with your own eyes!!! If you're not in that level, you cannot see people in their true position. Please chant, even though you're full of hatred, don't think you're independent. Everything is controled by Lord. If a pure devotee feels anger it is direct control of Lord -it is trancendental. Like Vishnujana, from Chief Cow Pie's article he doesn't care if it's morally good to banish this Christian guy, he simply went and he protected message of God. Anyhow, I know this can be exploited. You say: " &Iuml;'m doing this in name of God", but in fact you don't even knowwho is God. yes, in that case, it is ignorant. It doesn't mean we should become heartless. We live in our bodies, they're part of maya as you wisely reminded us. Therefore, devotees are indeed in mode of goodness. Only from there, we can love purely Krishna. But at the same time, the only way how to get there is to love Krishna. Krishna says to Arjuna, when he's about to kill his family members that compassion is a feature of a pure devotee. Whatever you do, whatever you feel, chant. There's no other way. If someone's feel anger towards people, or is totally soaked in maya, let him chant. No artificial love will help him.

[ChiefCowpie]

as for a mother, your guru, nothing about Krishna mentioned on her website -how come?
Home (http://www.ammachi.org/) > Teachings (http://www.ammachi.org/teachings/) > Spiritual Practices (http://www.ammachi.org/teachings/spiritual-practices/)

Puja and Japa

http://www.ammachi.org/teachings/spiritual-practices/images/puja.jpg Chanting (Japa)

Japa is the vocal and mental repetition of the divine name or sound (mantra). Amma says that "the purpose of mantra japa(chanting) is to lead us to the ultimate silence of the Self, from where all sounds and forms arise. Further, in the present age of materialism, chanting the mantra (japa), is the easiest way for us to obtain inner purification and concentration. Japa can be done at any time, anywhere without observing any rule regarding the purity of mind and body. Japa can be done while engaged in any task.

Actions that help develop japa chanting

It is always advisable to obtain a mantra from a Self-Realized Master (Sat-Guru). Until then we may use one of the mantras of our beloved deity like "Om Namah Shivaya", "Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya", "Om Namo Narayanaya", "Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare", "Hari Om", "Om Parashaktyai Namaha", "Om Shivashaktyaikya Rupinyai Namaha" or even the names of Christ, Allah or Buddha. Deciding to chant the mantra a certain number of times daily will help foster the japa habit. We should always keep a rosary (mala) with us for doing japa. A rosary can be made of 108, 54, 27, or 18 beads of rudraksha, tulasi, crystals, sandal, gems, etc., with one Guru (main) bead. We should resolve to chant a certain number of rosaries daily. Children, we should always chant the mantra in our minds while walking, traveling or working.

The importance of repetition

Try not to have any break in chanting the mantra even for a moment. Continue repeating the mantra while engaged in any task. Chanting in the mind may not always be possible at first, so in the beginning, practice japa by moving the lips incessantly, like a fish drinking water. If japa is maintained, no useless talk during work will be possible. The mind will always remain peaceful. Modern day diseases are mostly psychosomatic. Japa will bestow good health to both mind and body.

If chanting is not possible during a certain task, then pray before starting it: "Lord, give Your blessings so that I may do this work in a manner that pleases You!" At the end, pray again to the Lord for forgiving any mistakes we may have committed during the task consciously or otherwise.

Constantly repeating God's name will diminish the ego

"I am an important person; I hold a high position in society. How can I go to the temple and worship in the jostling crowd there? How will I bow down before the Lord? Isn't that demeaning?" Thoughts like these arise from the ego. Be ready, always, anywhere, to repeat the Lord's name and to pay homage to the Lord and the guru. We don't gain anything from a certificate of greatness from society; what we need is a certificate from God. With constant effort, we will be able to repeat the mantra in our minds even while doing any type of job.

Don't forget God for even a second

If we lose our money while traveling, think how frantically we search for it! In the same way, if we are unable to do japa even for a brief moment, we should grieve: "Alas, Lord, I have lost so much time! " If there is such anguish, even the time we spend sleeping will not be wasted. Children, even if we lose a million dollars, we can recover it. If we lose one second, we cannot get it back. Every moment that we are not remembering God is lost to us. Chanting replaces other thoughts with that particular mantra. Just as saline water loses its salty taste by constantly adding fresh water, through constant repetition of a mantra, the number of thoughts can be reduced. In due course, all thoughts can be eliminated excepts one, that is God. Love will spring through japa if one has complete faith and intent to reach the goal. Mantra japa, done with the proper understanding of this principle will ultimately take us to the Source. At this point, the seeker realizes that the form he has been meditating on, as well as all other forms that exist within himself, are the manifestations of the Self.

Write the mantra daily

It is a good practice to write at least one page of mantra daily. Many people get better concentration by writing than by chanting. Try also to inculcate in children the habit of chanting and neatly writing the mantra. This will help to improve their handwriting, too. The book in which the mantra is written should not be thrown around; it should be carefully kept in our meditation or shrine room.

Puja

Chant the divine names with devotion

Children, if we can do archana of the thousand names of the Divine Mother daily with devotion, we will grow spiritually. There will never be lack of life's essentials, food and clothing, in a family that chants the Lalita Sahasranama with devotion.

Children, we should consider every name as the name of our beloved deity. Imagine that He is the one that appears in all the different forms. If our beloved deity is Krishna, then while chanting the names of the Divine Mother, imagine that Krishna has come before us as Devi. We should not think that since we are chanting Devi's names, Krishna might not like it. These differences exist only in our world, not in His.


Visualization before beginning archana

It is useful to place a picture of our beloved deity in front of us during the archana. Meditate for five minutes before starting the worship. Visualize the beloved deity clearly from head to foot and then again from foot to head. We should imagine that the deity from within the lotus of our hearts comes to sit on the special seat placed in front of us. We should imagine that we are offering flowers at the feet of our deity as we chant each mantra. Visualize in the heart a tree in full bloom and imagine picking and offering those white flowers from this tree. Whenever real flowers are not available or not sufficient, we may do archana with such mental flowers (Manasa Pushpam) of the heart. Such flowers, offered with devotion, are dearest to the Lord. The flowers of the heart are humility, devotion and an attitude of surrender.


Whatever binds us most, whatever is dearest to us, that is what we should offer the Lord. Doesn't a mother give her child whatever she thinks is the best?


Pranayama (breathing exercise) before beginning archana

Doing some pranayama (breathing exercises) before archana helps us gain concentration. Sit erect, close the right nostril, inhale through the left nostril, then exhale through the right nostril while closing the left. Now inhale through the right and exhale through the left. This makes one round of pranayama. This may be done three times. While inhaling, we should visualize that all good qualities are filling us. While exhaling, imagine that all evil qualities, bad thoughts and evil vasanas (tendencies) are leaving us in the form of darkness.

At the end of archana

Do not get up immediately at the end of the archana. The beloved deity should be brought from the seat in front of us back into our hearts and reinstalled there. Seeing the form of the deity seated in the heart, meditate a little longer. If it is possible, it is good to sing two or three kirtans (hymns). After taking an injection, a patient is asked to rest for a few minutes to let the medicine spread throughout the body. Similarly, to obtain the full benefit of the mantras, we should keep the mind calm for a while after worship.






Like Vishnujana, from Chief Cow Pie's article he doesn't care if it's morally good to banish this Christian guy, he simply went and he protected message of God.
if you go back and read, you will see he tolerated blasphemy against the message and himself for many days but only when this fellow threatened his beloved Radha Damodhara with his cane did Vishnujana get up and chase this much bigger man down the street...devotees will tolerate insults against themselves...it is their humble nature

[gdkumar]

From SvgGrdnBeauty:

"Kumar! It makes me smile to see that you have come back to this thread...I, and I'm sure many of the others, have missed your kind words and beautiful insight....

I agree...we should see the good in others...and we cannot say that there isn't because if we are all a part of Krsna than we are all good...its just a matter of whether or not we chose to accept this and live up to what we really are..."

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

My dear beautiful mind and soul, thank you so much for your kind words !

How can I not be a part of such a beautiful 'thread' where all enlightened souls like you, YogaLady,Sleeping Jiva,ChiefCowPie,BBB,Jaganathadasa and Rama Nityananda Dasa are contributing ?

And dear, how can I not take part where people are talking about Krishna, Christ,Chaitanya,Nityananda, Srila Prabhupad,Saraswatisiddhanta maharaj, Vishnujana, and so many others ? Knowing about the devotees is no less than knowing about the Lord. I am thankful to all for their rich contributions.

How nicely you have summed up everything just by saying "If we are all a part of Krishna then we are all good". So easily you have realized this. His reflections are easily seen in simple minds.

Just another point, there is definitely nothing wrong if you meet Ma Amritanandamoyee.
You can only gain. ChiefCowPie is a blessed soul to have her as his Guru. I am sure, when you meet her you will feel the bliss of tasting nectar. Her name implies that.

With love and prayers...............Kumar.

[ChiefCowpie]

thank you gdkumar for your kind words and insights

and i posted this earlier and i wanted to post it again as tears well up in my eyes everytime i read this and think about it as Prabhupada's heart overflows with love at the departure of his dear disciple, Visnujana Swami

Srila Prabhupada was sitting in his new quarters in Bombay when Tamal Krsna Maharaja entered. He began to tell Srila Prabhupada about the disappearance of Visnujana Maharaja. TKG said that Visnujana had not applied for a new passport to leave India and he was sure the 'white sanyasi' that the sadhus who went to the Delhi temple, talked about was Visnujana Maharaja. At this point Srila Prabhupada appeared to weep. He turned his head and gazed out the window. He said, "He did not have to do that". TKG asked if Srila Prabhupada knew where Visnujana was. Srila Prabhupada said, "Visnujana was very advanced; he's still chanting Hare Krishna. He's very advanced"! It was obvious that Srila Prabhupada did not want to talk about it anymore as he tearfully gazed out the window. About two weeks later Srila Prabhupada told us that Visnujana was chanting to him in his dreams. (Just like Chota Haridas who chanted for Lord Chaitanya.)

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

SvgGrdnBeauty, i noticed you live in new jersey...my guru is coming to nyc in two weeks and for sure that a spiritual seeker having but a moments association with this great sadhu will have great benefits


http://www.geocities.com/www0db0www/amma1page1.jpg


http://www.geocities.com/www0db0www/amma2page1.jpg
Mother Amritananda is affectionately known as Amma or Mother and she is for sure one of the hardest working people on the planet besides Lord Shiva who catches the Ganges waters as they cascade down from the heavenly planets as daily she greets thousands with healing hugs as they flock to see her

Home (http://www.ammachi.org/) > Tours (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/) > Amma Tours (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/) > N. America (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/n_america.html) > New York (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/new-york.html)

New York



Three days of public programs will be held in New York between July 17 and 19.

Public Programs (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/new-york.html#PP) - July 17, 18 & 19 (all day)


New York City Information (http://www.ammany.org/summertour.htm) - Check the New York satsang website for information on directions, hotel rates and more.
Program Information: 212.714.5445 / Website (http://www.ammany.org/)
Email: satsang@AmmaNY.org (satsang@AmmaNY.org)

http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/images/cldottemp_000.gifJuly 17 - 18
Sat . - Sun.



Manhattan Center (http://www.ammany.org/summertour.htm)
311 W. 34th Street
New York, NY - 10001


10:00 am &
7:30 pm

Free Public Program (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/public-program.html)

July 19
Monday


Manhattan Center (http://www.ammany.org/summertour.htm)
311 W. 34th Street
New York, NY - 10001

10:00 am & Devi Bhava**
at 6:30 pm

Free Public Program (http://www.ammachi.org/tours/amma-tours/public-program.html)
Dear Cheifcowpie...

Thank you for the information. I would like to check it out but unfortunetely I cannot drive to NYC by myself...I am still new to driving on the parkway but driving on the turnpike is even scarier...and I'm afraid my mother would never let me...both because it would be going to NYC myself and also because she doesn't really know nor would she quite understand about my interest in Krsna...she doesn't even really know that I've started being a vegitarian...but thank you for thinking of me nonetheless...

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

ChiefCowPie: thanx for your stories about Vishnujana :)

as for a mother, your guru, nothing about Krishna mentioned on her website -how come?


gdkumar: no. we should love Krishna first, then love to other people will come naturally. All love to people without Krishna consciousness is egotism. The advanced people, who are positioned in this quality of goodness, they know that the results of their love to others will be beneficial, but yet it is an imprisonment in this world. Devotees of Krishna, they go beyond goodness. To see Supersoul in everybody that means to see him with your own eyes!!! If you're not in that level, you cannot see people in their true position. Please chant, even though you're full of hatred, don't think you're independent. Everything is controled by Lord. If a pure devotee feels anger it is direct control of Lord -it is trancendental. Like Vishnujana, from Chief Cow Pie's article he doesn't care if it's morally good to banish this Christian guy, he simply went and he protected message of God. Anyhow, I know this can be exploited. You say: " &Iuml;'m doing this in name of God", but in fact you don't even knowwho is God. yes, in that case, it is ignorant. It doesn't mean we should become heartless. We live in our bodies, they're part of maya as you wisely reminded us. Therefore, devotees are indeed in mode of goodness. Only from there, we can love purely Krishna. But at the same time, the only way how to get there is to love Krishna. Krishna says to Arjuna, when he's about to kill his family members that compassion is a feature of a pure devotee. Whatever you do, whatever you feel, chant. There's no other way. If someone's feel anger towards people, or is totally soaked in maya, let him chant. No artificial love will help him.
But isn't it that regardless of whether people are Krsna conscious or not we should love them...its part of loving Krsna...because I was under the impression that He is in all of us...that is why you are supposed to respect others' lives...if they do not find Krsna in this life maybe they will later or in another, does that justify not being kind to them now...

Maybe I missed your point...but I was under the impression that that's how it works...then again I could be wrong...as I had told you before Bhagavad-Gita As It Is is one of the most challenging things I've ever read...but that's the impression I'm getting from it so far...

[sleeping jiva]

sure. A devotee is kind to everyone, cuz he's fullfilled. he doesn't feel any jealousy, he's fully absorbed in Krishna. I'm just saying that sometimes you're good to people by lying to them. That's egotistical, cuz you don't want be looked upon as the bad guy, so you rather say: yes, you're right. That's like helping others in their egotism. What is the help there? You can see the example on Prabhupada, he didn't compromise cuz he could win some temporal favor from people, he told them -you're living in maya, because of this and this and this. That's hard to listen to, but it's the truth. I'm totally ignorant, I just try to spread what I've read in Prabhupada's books. This is not my opinion.

[sleeping jiva]

Srila Prabhupada writes:

"According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straightforward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it.” (Bhagavad-gita As It Is, 10.4-5, purport)

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

There was a hill named Trikuta. It was famed for its beauty and was surrounded on all sides by an ocean of milk. The creepers which grew on the hill were incandescent like gold and silver and the quarters would glow because of the light from the hill. It was a hundred yojanas in extent. Conchs were there in plenty and precious stones as well. From a height, the earth, dark in colour, the sea white and milky and the hill green in colour with the trees and shrubs and creepers together gave the effect of an emerald set in silver. It was a beautiful hill. Wild animals were there and sweet music from the nests of birds would mingle with the roar of lions and tigers that lived in the caves. The fragrance of the air which had been perfumed by the many sweet-scented flowers would draw divine beings to spend their time there. It became the playground of many of the divine beings. Siddhas, Charanas and Gandharvas would go there very often and spend their time in the caves and valleys which glowed with the lustre of the many precious gems embedded in the rocks.

In that hill was a garden named Rituman. It was crowded with flowering trees of every kind:--- Mandara, Parijata, Ashoka, Champaka, Chuta, and fruit trees like pomegranate and mango. There were tall trees which touched the skies, Devadaru and Sala trees. The garden belonged to Varuna. There was also a beautiful lake in that hill. It was a very large lake and on its face floated blue, white and red lotuses. The makaranda from them was so profuse that there could always be heard the humming of summer bees which were hovering around the flowers. Water birds like the crane and the swan were always found there and the fish and the tortoises inside the water could be seen clearly since the water was so pellucid. The banks of the lake had flowering shrubs like the jasmine, the kunda and the jaji: punnaga, and Kuravaka and the creeper Madhavi. The scent there was so overpowering that one felt faint.

In that hill dwelt an immense elephant with his entire herd. He would wander at will and his herd would always be with him. His favourite pastime was to uproot the bamboo groves. The tender sprouts from the canes were the favourite food of the elephants and they would wander at will in the forest. The elephant was so wild and so powerful that even wild animals like the lion and tiger and wild boar and bulls would run from the spot where the elephant stood.
Once during summer, after a long march with his companions, the elephant was feeling very tired and extremely thirsty. From a distance he smelled the perfume which was part of the lake and he went fast towards the lake. His herd came with him and soon they reached the lake and entered it. It was refreshing to bathe in the lake and to drink the sweet water. Once their thirst was quenched they did not feel like coming out of the lake. They spent a long time playing in the clear water and making it muddy and full of mire. The master elephant would take water in his trunk and pour it over the backs of the small ones and the she-elephants. Like a man absorbed in the pleasures of Samsara takes no heed of the fact that his life is getting shorter day by day, the elephant paid no heed to the passage of time. All unaware of the danger lurking in the waters he went on playing, like a samsari who does not see that it is a trap to catch him and bind him for ever.

Instigated by Fate, a crocodile which had been living in the lake for a long time grasped the leg of the elephant in its mighty jaws. The unexpected pain made the elephant wince and he tried to shake off the crocodile. But it was not possible. Try as he might, the elephant found it impossible to get out of the clutches of the crocodile. His companions tried to help him but it was all in vain. The grip of the crocodile was too strong and the elephant, strong as he was, was not strong enough to shake off the crocodile. The tussle went on for a long time, for years. Even the devas were present to see this mighty duel between the lord of the forest and the king of the rivers. Slowly but very steadily the strength of the elephant was ebbing away. The crocodile was winning; he found himself growing stronger and more powerful. The elephant finally realised that it was, for him, a losing fight and that soon his life would also leave his body. At that moment he began to see everything in the proper perspective. He pondered for a long while and told himself: "I am in great trouble and these, my dependants are unable to extricate me from my predicament. I have realised that no one can help me now in this dire calamity which has befallen me. But still, I have one hope. I can surrender to the Lord who is the refuge of even gods like Brahma. He is sure to protect me from the dread serpent called Yama who is trying to frighten me. If He is with me, death himself will flee from me since he is afraid of the Lord. I will pray to the Lord."

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

He composed his mind and his thoughts, and set them steadily on Narayana and began his song of praise. He said:
"Salutations to you, Lord of lords.You are the Ancient; the Purusha and the Prakriti born of Purusha. You are the light which illumines the intellect of humans. This entire universe is established in you. It was born of you and it has no existence apart from you. After creating it, you, at the time of the deluge, withdraw it into yourself. You are the light beyond the sources of all light. "You stand at the edge of the sea of darkness, of Tamas which is all that is found at the end of Pralaya and you bring new life into the new creation which is born of the old. The cycle is unending and you are the cause behind the cosmos. It is to have a vision of you that rishis spend millions of years absorbed in meditation. You have no birth: no Karma to perform: no names nor any qualities to distinguish you from the others. And yet out of your Maya you create forms for yourself and these have names and qualities ascribed to them. "The formlessness of you is forgotten by those who see you take up a form for the good of the world. You are beyond the reach of the senses, the mind, the emotions, the intellect. Still though you are beyond comprehension there are some who have realised you by becoming one with you. "You are the seer, the Drastha, for the functioning of the Indriyas and their different individual behaviour. You are the cause of everything but nothing has caused you since you are Ancient: eternal: everlasting: without a beginning and so, without an end. There is no limit to you since you are Infinite. "You are unaffected by the gunas and their interplay and, as a result, those who succumb to the Maya caused by the gunas are not able realise the truth about you. Even as the glow from the sun and the fire erupt from it, glow for a while and are lost in the source itself, even so, your glory emanates from you. This stream of gunas, this mind, intellect, senses, and the bodies which enjoy these are all born out of you: and in the end are again lost only in you. They have no seperate entity. Famed as you are to be beyond the gunas, still,you have been known to be the personification of compassion as far as beings like me are concerned: beings who surrender themselves entirely to you are sure to be cured of their ignorance, their Avidya and will be made to have a vision of the Truth that is you. "This birth of mine which is full of Avidya inside as well as outside, this elephant's form and mind is of no use to me. I have no desire to live anymore. I want that Moksha which will not be destroyed by the passage of time. Punya which is acquired is rewarded by a length of time in heaven. When that Punya gets exhausted man is again thrown back to the world of sin. I want a Moksha different from this. I want to be cured of Avidya. I am a Mumukshu and I salute you who is the cause of this Universe: who pervades everything: and yet, who is apart from all that you have created: who is the Ultimate Truth. Yogis see you in their hearts since their Karmas and the results of their Karmas have all been burned in the flame of self-knowledge. http://www.vaishnava.com/narayana.jpgThe greatness that is you is hidden from foolish beings like me because our thinking is clouded by the sense of "I" and "MINE" I surrender myself to that Infinite Power, Truth, Light that is you. The devas and Brahma and all the others were listening to the words of the elephant. The praise was for the Purusha and each one them knew that he was not fit for the words of praise which were used by the animal. Narayana was touched by the plight of the elephant and assuming the form Hari, appeared before him on the shores of the lake. Garuda was carrying Him. In his hand glowed the Sudarshana Chakra. Looking on him the elephant raised his trunk which held a lotus and said: "Lord! Narayana! I salute you." Narayana was overcome with compassion for the poor elephant and his plight. He entered the lake, killed the crocodile with His Sudarshana and pulled the elephant out of the lake. To the leg of the elephant was still clinging the dead form of the crocodile with its mouth gaping open. All the denizens of the heavens were watching in awe. They stood around the Lord and the elephant, exhausted by the fight which had lasted all these years, was standing with its trunk still raised aloft. With infinite love the Lord accepted the lotus which was held in the trunk and the elephant was happy.

GLOSSARY:
Avidya: Spiritual ignorance. Because of one's Avidya one does not realise the Truth about the Brahman which alone exists.
Drastha: A seer: one who sees mentally
Indriya: An organ of sense
Karma: Action, work, deed. Fate, the certain consequence of acts done in a former life
Maha Pralaya: The Great Dissolution --the total annihilation of the Universe at the end of the life of Brahma when all the worlds with their inhabitants, the gods, saints,- including Brahma himself are all annihilated.
Maya: In Vedantic philosophy, it is unreality: the illusion by virtue of which one considers the unreal Universe as really existent and, as distinct fron the Supreme Spirit
Moksha: Final emancipation, deliverance of the soul from recurring births and transmigration: the last of the four ends of human existence: Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha
Mumukshu: One who desires Mukti(Liberation)
Punya: Good work, meritorious act.
Purusha: The Supreme Being: the Soul of the Universe
Tamas: Literally, darkness. In Vedanta, it is one of the three qualities or constituents of everything in nature, the other two being Sattva and Rajas

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Good story. Thank you. :)

[sleeping jiva]

Nicole. I just wanted to tell, how happy I am you decided to become a vegetarian. It's freaking hard in this society, which soaked up in this habit of ignorance. Whatever the pressure will be, don't get turned off, even if you won't make it. Hope the recipes I gave you will do some good. I'm willing to help you as well as to anybody else with vegetarian cooking, which is way more delicious and tasty than meat foods.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

If I didn't decide it consciously...my subconscious certainly did... about a week or so after I really started to read that book...every time I saw meat I would get physically sick to my stomach...my mom asked me to help her cook and I couldn't even stay in the kitchen...I'm telling you it was the weirdest thing...

...yes I know what you mean about it being hard in society...my parents don't know...I just keep saying that I don't feel like having whatever or I eat the other things they are serving...eventually I will tell them...but I'm not quite ready...I don't expect them to do what I'm doing...I would never make them but I made the decsion and that is that...

Also, thank you for that website...the things on it were very interesting

[sleeping jiva]

no problem. you just need to say your parents the facts(they don't need to be devotees to understand these):

1. there is more protein in beans and nuts
2. animal slaughter house is one of the most serious ecological problems (there is huge air& water pollution going on. Also world hunger is the consequence of that too. For a vegetarian you need way less grain than for a meat-eater -cuz the animals need to be fed )
3. our testines are too long comparing the testines of lion, or other carnivores.
(meat starts to rot before it leaves body). our stomach acids are not as stronger as carnivorous animals'.) Even our teeth are shaped more like cow's.
4. animals suffer tremendously. Every meat you eat is most likely to be from tortured animal. this suffering is unethical. They feel pain as people do.
5. meat-eating is a huge factor of cancer, heart-diseases
6. there are alternatives (it's even cheaper!)
7.pre-historic people were mostly vegetarians. If they used meat, they use it as a sauce to eat with their grains, vegetables, not vice versa. This has been proven by archeology.
I guess I forgot something, but seriously if they listen to you, they can't say I don't understand why you became vegetarian. Your method of not-attacking :) is very wise. We need to respect their free choice. There's no good to do the same as they do (well, not yr.parents but uninformed people): mockery, playing on their guilt, converting them by force -no. In my opinion, the best thing is to go by example. But you know that, you're very wise. :):) I can't smell or watch at meat either -I just can't see nothing than dead animals. I remember I stopped eating meat while reading Bhagavadgita As IT Is for the first time too. It's Krishna's power I guess. I haven't found anything more influential than Prabhupada's books in this world yet. It's truly a miracle from a certain point of view.

[sleeping jiva]

In a recently translated conversation Narayana Maharaja's followers claim Srila Prabhupada personally ordered Narayana Maharaja to give spiritual guidance to his disciples and followers, and that he wants his disciples and followers to accept that guidance. We will show, Srila Prabhupada does not say anything of the kind, and far from the conversation being any sort of Final Order from Srila Prabhupada, it is actually only a FALSE Order from the IRM Adridharan das (http://www.krishna.org/?author=IRM%) (03-08-01)

</STRONG></FONT>

Recently the English translation of an undated Bengali conversation held between Srila Prabhupada and Narayana Maharaja (NM) has been widely circulated on the internet by the followers of NM, with the translation also provided by the NM camp. The conversation is supposed to have occurred sometime during October-November 1977, and is titled by NM's followers as being:

"Prabhupada's Final Order: On Iskcon and Srila Narayana Maharaja"

They claim the conversation presents a 'Final Order' from Srila Prabhupada in which he:

"has personally ordered Srila Narayana Maharaja to give spiritual guidance to his disciples and followers, and that he wants his disciples and followers to accept that guidance."

As we will now show, Srila Prabhupada does not actually say anything of the kind, and far from the conversation being any sort of 'Final Order' from Srila Prabhupada, it is actually only a FALSE Order from the Gaudiya Matha group, who in their desperation to divert devotees away from Srila Prabhupada, are presenting things which are not there. We will print below the relevant portion of the transcript presented by the NM group as being the 'evidence' for their claim and see what it really says. (We are, of course, here relying on the accuracy of the translation from the followers of NM, which could also be incorrect.)

First we reproduce the phrase which the NM group has highlighted in capitals as being the evidence for their claim (they have only claimed this one phrase as the evidence for their claim, and thus this is all we need to deal with):

"[Srila Prabhupada]: YOU KINDLY INSTRUCT THEM ON THIS MATTER."

Now this above sentence was definitely spoken by Srila Prabhupada to NM. Thus the issues are:

a) WHO was the 'THEM' that NM was to give this instruction to?

b) WHAT was the 'MATTER' on which Srila Prabhupada wanted NM to give instruction?

c) WHEN was this instruction to be given?

Obviously without the answers to these questions, one cannot claim anything about what Srila Prabhupada is saying. And to find the answers to these questions, we obviously need to read the text before and after the phrase in question to understand the context. The full portion therefore is:

[Srila Prabhupada]: Are any of my god-brothers in Vrindavana now?
[Narayana Maharaja]: Yes. [Srila Prabhupada]: Who?
[Narayana Maharaja]: Van Maharaja might be there, as well as Indupati Prabhu from Caitanya Gaudiya Matha.
[Srila Prabhupada]: Any more?
[Narayana Maharaja]: Only these two at the moment.
[Srila Prabhupada]: Who is Indupati?
[Narayana Maharaja]: Indupati. He comes here often.
: From Madhava Maharaja's matha?
[Narayana Maharaja]: Yes. No one else is here.
[Srila Prabhupada]: Please call both of THEM. Van Maharaja and him.
[Narayana Maharaja]: This is very good proposal by you.
[Srila Prabhupada]: Please sit down. They will call THEM.
[Narayana Maharaja]: All right.
[Srila Prabhupada]: This cutting of arguments happens sometimes...
[Narayana Maharaja]: These are insignificant matters in such a substantial worldwide mission. A little something here and there is of no consequence. You have done this wonderful preaching work for the benefit of the whole world. There was no self-interest. You did everything only in devotional service to Krsna - for benefiting all people at large.
[Srila Prabhupada]: It is all by your blessings.
[Narayana Maharaja]: You have done a wonderful thing. It is necessary to care for and preserve this mission, and see that it is managed skilfully.
[Srila Prabhupada]: YOU KINDLY INSTRUCT THEM ON THIS MATTER. I'm unable to speak.

1) It is very clear that the 'THEM' refers to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers who were to arrive shortly, for they are referred to as 'THEM' *TWICE* in the *IMMEDIATELY* preceding conversation - please see the highlighted text above. Thus, Srila Prabhupada is actually asking NM to instruct THEM - his *Godbrothers* - who will arrive shortly.

2) And what is it that he is to instruct them on? That is clear from what NM has just said before Srila Prabhupada asks him to "instruct them" - that any "cutting of the arguments" that Srila Prabhupada may have done in relation to his Godbrothers should not be taken seriously, because in a worldwide preaching mission this is insignificant, and part of caring for and preserving the mission. Srila Prabhupada had referred even earlier in the conversation to "this cutting of arguments":

[Srila Prabhupada]: I wish that my god-brothers forgive my offences...While preaching, many times we do say things contrary to each other, or we cut each other's philosophical arguments. That happens. Please ask my god-brothers to forgive my offences.(inaudible)
[Srila Narayana Maharaja]: All right.

Thus we can see that how Srila Prabhupada is again now asking Narayana Maharaja to speak to his Godbrothers regarding Srila Prabhupada's "cutting of their arguments", and to explain how this can happen in preaching, since NM has himself now echoed the earlier words of Srila Prabhupada that "while preaching" these things "happen".

3) And when was this instruction to be given? There and then, *and then only*. The proof for this is that immediately after NM is asked by Srila Prabhupada to give instruction, Srila Prabhupada immediately states: "I'm unable to speak" - and that's why he is asking NM to make these points to his godbrothers on his behalf.

[Srila Prabhupada]: YOU KINDLY INSTRUCT THEM ON THIS MATTER. I'M UNABLE TO SPEAK

The above points are established simply from reading the preceding conversation, and are proven from the translation of the rest of the conversation provided by the followers of NM themselves! Each of the 3 points ALONE defeats the assertion that Srila Prabhupada was giving an order to NM to instruct his disciples continuously in the future. And putting all of the 3 points together makes the conclusion crystal clear:

That far from being an instruction to NM to continually instruct his (Srila Prabhupada's) disciples about spiritual life 20 years later, the sentence in question is actually a request to NM to instruct Srila Prabhupada's *Godbrothers* to not mind Srila Prabhupada "cutting" their arguments, because Srila Prabhupada at the time was weak and "unable to speak".

[b]Narayana Maharaja's Final Order

However, it is significant that the followers of NM have conceded that statements made in this conversation can be seen as 'Final Orders'. Due to the timing of the conversation, which was in Srila Prabhupada's Final days, the followers of NM are happy to accept that statements made in this conversation have a nature of finality about them. Thus they have labelled Srila Prabhupada's statements in this conversation as being:

"Prabhupada's Final Order: On ISKCON and Narayana Maharaja"

(even though as we have seen above, they weren't!)

We are glad, however, that they have conceded this point, for in the same conversation later on NM himself makes some very important and instructive statements. Thus we are also justified and happy in calling these statements from Narayana Maharaja as being:

*** "Narayana Maharaja's Final Order: On ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada" ***

We reproduce them below:

[Narayana Maharaja] All of your duties are completed. You have fulfilled everything in your lifetime. There is no need to worry for anything. Only remember the lotus feet of Sri Radha-Krsna.
[Srila Prabhupada]: By Their blessings only.
[Narayana Maharaja]: Yes, you have done everything. Nothing is left unfinished.

Please carefully note the words - 'EVERYTHING' (mentioned twice), 'ANYTHING' and 'NOTHING'.

And also please note that here NM definitely IS talking about Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON (unlike the false dawn heralded by the followers of NM regarding the statements of Srila Prabhupada, as seen above). Thus there is no room for doubt. NM is very clear and final here. Everything has been completed by Srila Prabhupada, and there is nothing is left to finish in regards to his ISKCON mission. Srila Prabhupada was able to complete everything in his lifetime. He did not run out of time.

[sleeping jiva]

*** This is Narayana Maharaja's Final Order regarding Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON. ***

From this statement of NM, it is clear that if someone came preaching many years later that 'Swamiji' had NOT completed everything, that 'Swamiji' had ran out of time, that his mission was still unfulfilled, that this person should be consulted on how best to complete Srila Prabhupada's mission - then I am sure that NM would be the first personality to blast such a false prophet of doom! Unfortunately, there *is* such a person who is now making these very claims, in direct contradiction to the clear and instructive Final Order of NM above. We reproduce some extracts below:

"Here, one thing is that ultimately bhakti is only uttama-bhakti. He wanted to preach all of these things in the western countries also - that which Rupa Goswami has given in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu and the Ujjvala-nilamani, and that which has been written by acaryas like Raghunath das Goswami and Krishna das Kaviraja Goswami. He wanted to give all these things in western countries, BUT HE COULD NOT DO IT. HE HAD SO LITTLE TIME." (Lecture given on the disappearance day of Srila Prabhupada, 10th November, 1992)

"But why he did? Because worldly persons, general persons, those who are not rasika vaisnavas, they don't know tattva, they have not gone to association with any vaisnava, they think that this is a very good thing. To preach whole world the name of Krishna...and to give Gita Sandesh...is the very good thing. This was done by...you should know. So I want to say that your Prabhupada has given these things...ONLY THESE THINGS...AND NOT BEYOND THESE THINGS. Then he was only the servant of Mahavisnu, not of Krishna. A strange thing...fact...but for them who are ignorant."

"But to dig and to sweep is not everything. To dig for basement of this big temple is not everything. So Swamiji has at first cleared the atmosphere. Prepared the ground...by preaching name and the sandesh of Gita...he prepared. So very important work ... so he has done this task and it was so necessary for that world...for all world...he has done BUT HE HAS NOT DONE EVERYTHING BY DOING THAT. IT WAS ONLY BASEMENT.

And I think if he was alive ...for most one or two more years more...he would completed Srimad Bhagavatam...he would completed Ujjvala. Nilamani. Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Vidagdha Madhava which are necessary to know Caitanya Mahaprabhu...rasa, rasika and rasika sekhara. But...we are deprived of that...HE COULD NOT COMPLETED HIS WORK"
(Lecture given on September 19th, 1994)

It is clear therefore that these statements are in complete contradiction to the profound Final Order on ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada which has already been given by NM. Unfortunately to confuse matters, the personality making these contradictory statements also calls himself Narayana Maharaja, which does raise the possibility that all these contradictory statements are indeed made by the same personality. We, however, have discounted this possibility, since it is unthinkable that an advanced Vaisnava such as Narayana Maharaja would make such blatant contradictions, especially to a wonderfully accurate Final Order on Srila Prabhupada's legacy. Contradictions which by the way could only serve the purpose of being nothing more than a vain attempt to try and attract followers away from Srila Prabhupada. We would therefore urge any followers of the original Narayana Maharaja (who spoke the wonderful Final Order about Srila Prabhupada in 1977 reproduced above) to inform him that there is an imposter Narayan Maharaja on the loose preaching the preposterous speculation that Srila Prabhupada had actually not "fulfilled everything in his lifetime". We are sure this original Narayan Maharaja will want to repremand his impersonator most severely

[gdkumar]

From ChiefCowPie

"and i posted this earlier and i wanted to post it again as tears well up in my eyes everytime i read this and think about it as Prabhupada's heart overflows with love at the departure of his dear disciple, Visnujana Swami "

Dear ChiefCowPie,

Brother, thank you so much for telling us about Vishnujana Swami. Your pain and tears tell us clearly about your Guru's grace upon you.

May God bless you with everything that you cherish for.

With love and prayers...........Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Dear Rama Nityananda Dasa,

Brother, thank you so much for giving us the beautiful story.

Let us take the substance matter of submitting ourselves at the Lotus feet of the beloved Lord. Let this be the only aim at all times.

With love........Kumar.

[gdkumar]

From Sleeping Jiva :

"gdkumar: no. we should love Krishna first, then love to other people will come naturally. All love to people without Krishna consciousness is egotism. The advanced people, who are positioned in this quality of goodness, they know that the results of their love to others will be beneficial, but yet it is an imprisonment in this world. Devotees of Krishna, they go beyond goodness. To see Supersoul in everybody that means to see him with your own eyes!!! If you're not in that level, you cannot see people in their true position. Please chant, even though you're full of hatred, don't think you're independent. Everything is controled by Lord. If a pure devotee feels anger it is direct control of Lord -it is trancendental. Like Vishnujana, from Chief Cow Pie's article he doesn't care if it's morally good to banish this Christian guy, he simply went and he protected message of God. Anyhow, I know this can be exploited. You say: " &Iuml;'m doing this in name of God", but in fact you don't even knowwho is God. yes, in that case, it is ignorant. It doesn't mean we should become heartless. We live in our bodies, they're part of maya as you wisely reminded us. Therefore, devotees are indeed in mode of goodness. Only from there, we can love purely Krishna. But at the same time, the only way how to get there is to love Krishna. Krishna says to Arjuna, when he's about to kill his family members that compassion is a feature of a pure devotee. Whatever you do, whatever you feel, chant. There's no other way. If someone's feel anger towards people, or is totally soaked in maya, let him chant. No artificial love will help him."

__________________


Dear Sleeping Jiva,

I am sorry, I think I had created a lot of confusion for you (By my post) and now I am utterly confused by your post. I really do not understand what you are trying to get at.

I do not understand you. Can anyone love his father without loving the mother who tells him about the father? The mother is the symbol of nature (Radha) and the father is the symbol of "Purush"(Krishna). If nature(Radha) is denied then there is no Krishna.

Why do you repeat the name of Krishna, how can you love Him first without knowing anything about Him ? So, definitely you loved Mahaprabhu Chaitanya and Srila Prabhupada first and believed in whatever they said.

So, you love nature, which envelops everything, considering you are loving and acknowledging Him only. Have not you seen the peacock feather on His crown? It is there in any photograph of Him. Have you noticed the sign of female genital(Source of all creations) on the peacock feather ? He keeps nature on His head. We have always been taught "love thy neighbours".

Krishna is not a particular man who lives in the jungle or on top of the mountains. He is inside us, inside all of us. He is every where. He is in the grass, vegetables,plants,trees,animals,beasts......what is without Him?
"Sarvang Khallidang Brahman". There is no way to reach Him without loving all around us.

Dear brother, only chanting does not help. Chanting keeping the mind in the Lotus feet of Radhe and Krishna only helps. If mere chanting could do then even all the CDs of the Mahamantra would have become "Chaitanyamay".

I love you, I like your one-track mind. You are like the betel-nut trees which never bend and stand straight. But they always grow and progress looking for more and more light. May Lord Krishna make you like them, showing you only light and nothing else.

With love and prayers............Kumar.

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

Nityananda! Gauranga!Hare Krishna!

Anyone wanting to seriously study Sri Bhagavad Gita As It Is can meditate on the classes here http://www.atmatattva.com/bhagavad-gita-study-course.htm

Very beneficial for the soul:)

Jaya Prabhupada!

[gdkumar]

Shri Ramakrishna Paramahansa very often used to say that God does not see our deeds, He sees our minds. At the time of doing any job where our mind is.

He gave us the following story :

There was a jewellery shop where including the owner all the employees used to chant. People used to think that they are all pious and used to buy gold ornaments from that shop.

As the buyers entered the shop the employees said, "Keshava,Keshava" (God's name).The owner said,"Gopala,Gopala"(God's name). Then the employees said, "Hari,Hari"(God's name). The owner said, "Hara,Hara"(God's name).The buyers were charmed by their devotion. They purchased whatever they wanted and happily left the shop.

Actually they were terribly cheated and were given all very poor quality gold.
All these people were bengalis and in Bengali 'Keshava' means,"Who are they?"
'Gopala' means cow herd(Implying innocent simple people,no fear). Hari means "Should I steal or cheat?" 'Hara' means "Go ahead, steal".

This story tells us to be aware of show-off practices. The Gita also tells us the same thing.

With love...........Kumar.

[sleeping jiva]

gdkumar: this is quite important topic. I know what you mean and totaly agree. One can chant only in order to attract some not very intelligent people and then cheat them. In fact, he may do this without knowing it! that's why there are people, who claim to be Prabhupada's followers and still they refused Prabhupada's instructions. They may say: " I see Krishna, no reason to listen to Prabhupada anymore I'm more than him.". This is demonic.

As I was referring in my previous post, my point is, that there's nothing higher than Krishna, any goodness, nice behaviour are nothing but maya if they're not in Krishna consciousness. We should be good, but not for ourselves (expecting praise from others), only for Krishna. Because even the mode of goodness is an attachment. You think: I'm good. But in fact it was done only by Krishna's mercy. Material nature is mother, yes and Krishna is father. We may hear from mother about father. There's no other way -haha only through material things we may realise the spiritual world's existence. But, well, Bhagavadgita bona, fide guru, everything used in Krishna consciousness is in fact spiritual even though we see material forms. but if you love this material things without Krishna consciousness, that's maya. Maya is only in your head. The things are in their nature Krishna's various forms, but the problem is when you say to yourself: This material world is for me, for my eyes. It is for me to enjoy. And you want to lord it over material nature. That is a danger I'm talking about. And we are all under this spell. I cannot say: Ok, now I'm detached. No. Krishna decides. Therefore, if you want to get freed from this illusion you must surrender to Krishna. I found this verse from Bhagavadgita, which wil explain it better. I'm willing to explain more. I consider it very important issue, if there's only one word you're not sure how did I mean, just tell me, I'll do anything possible in order to explain thourghly.

[sleeping jiva]

Chapter 3. Karma-yogaTEXT 19

tasmad asaktah satatam
karyam karma samacara
asakto hy acaran karma
param apnoti purusah

SYNONYMS

http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.giftasmat--therefore; asaktah--without attachment; satatam--constantly; karyam--as duty; karma--work; samacara--perform; asaktah--nonattached; hi--certainly; acaran--performing; karma--work; param--the Supreme; apnoti--achieves; purusah--a man. TRANSLATION

http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifTherefore, without being attached to the fruits of activities, one should act as a matter of duty; for by working without attachment, one attains the Supreme. PURPORT

http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifThe Supreme is the Personality of Godhead for the devotees, and liberation for the impersonalist. A person, therefore, acting for Krsna, or in Krsna consciousness, under proper guidance and without attachment to the result of the work, is certainly making progress toward the supreme goal of life. Arjuna is told that he should fight in the Battle of Kuruksetra for the interest of Krsna because Krsna wanted him to fight. To be a good man or a nonviolent man is a personal attachment, but to act on behalf of the Supreme is to act without attachment for the result. That is perfect action of the highest degree, recommended by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna.
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifVedic rituals, like prescribed sacrifices, are performed for purification of impious activities that were performed in the field of sense gratification. But action in Krsna consciousness is transcendental to the reactions of good or evil work. A Krsna conscious person has no attachment for the result but acts on behalf of Krsna alone. He engages in all kinds of activities, but is completely nonattached.

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

Jaya gdkumar!

Jaya Sleeping Jiva!:)

[gdkumar]

Dear Rama Nityananda Dasa,

Thank you for your kind post but please save me. Please do not say that. Please say, 'Jaya Guru', 'Jaya Krishna'.

With love........Kumar.

[ChiefCowpie]

Rama Meets Hanuman

Rama and Laxmana left the ashrama of Shabari and reached the Pampa Lake further South. It was a pleasant site; the water of the lake was sweet and clear. All animals were seen drinking from the same spot. Rivalry and cruelty was foreign to the spot. Surrounding trees were blooming with fruits and flowers.

Here the two brothers rested for a couple of days. The evergreen sage Narada visited Rama to seek advice on the nuances and subtleties of Bhakti -Yoga of Devotion or Worship. The expressions of Bhakti in a spiritual aspirant were discussed. Rama told Narada about the nine types of Bhakti:

One who enjoys the Association of Sages is Bhakta. And who is a sage? In whose presence one gets peace and happiness of mind and soul is a sage.

Second Bhakti is to listen to the stories and glory of God with all humility and love.

To worship the holy feet of one's Guru (Teacher) and to serve him as per one's ability is third bhakti.

To have firm faith in the teachings of scriptures and Mantra, Japa, etc. is another form of worship.

To control the sense organs, and to be able to stabilize the mind in the constant remembrance of the Lord is one form of Bhakti.

To attempt to visualize the same God in everything and in all situations is the next form of Bhakti.

To remain contented, non covetous and satisfied in whatever condition the lord has placed one in is the eighth type of devotion, and

To lead a simple guileless life, not to injure or harm anyone, to have firm faith in the existence of God, and to be equal in pain and pleasure is the last form of Bhakti.

One who attempts to acquire anyone of these virtues is a Bhakta -devotee of the Lord.

Meeting of Rama and Hanuman

Soon Rama and Laxmana reached the foothills of Rishyamuk mountains. Here the king Sugreeva of monkey clan was staying with his ministers and friends. One of them was mighty Hanuman, the noblest devotee of Rama. This intelligent monkey was well versed in all the scriptures and was pure by thought, words, and deeds. He had vowed to remain celibate all throughout his life, and therefore he looked at every woman as mother. His devotion to Rama was eternal, and he thought himself to be the most obedient servant of Rama! This sadhana with servant attitude is called as Dasya-bhava. Hanuman is worshipped all over in India as the deity of purity, power, and eliminator of all evils.

On seeing the two foreigners coming to the mountain, Sugreeva asked Hanuman to see with what intentions these two had come to Kishkindha. Accordingly, Hanuman came down as a Brahmin priest, and inquired, "O noble ones, who are you and what brings you here? It seems you are warriors but you have taken to life of sanyasins. Why is it so? O delicate ones of royal origin, your feet are having blisters due to this rough terrain. Please tell me about yourselves."

Thus spoken to with modesty and humility, Rama answered, "O Noble Monkey, we are the princes from Ayodhya. My name is Rama and he is my brother Laxmana. As it happens, some demon has kidnapped my wife Sita and we are moving in search of her. And by the way who are you, who speaks to us with such devotion and love?"

No sooner did Rama speak thus than Hanuman realized that he was face to face with his Ishta -- Lord Rama. The amnesia of this birth suddenly vanished and Hanuman could see the glorious form of his Master full of effulgence and grace.

With tears in his eyes, he prostrated at the lotus feet of Rama and said, "O Lord, you have taken such a long time to come to your devotee that this Hanuman has almost become ignorant fool not to recognize you. What a foolish question to ask - who are you!"

Rama lifted his devotee and put him to his breast, patting him on his back. The tears flowed freely from the eyes of Rama and Hanuman. Laxmana who was astonished to see the second devotee (first one was Shabari) whom Rama loved more than him (Laxmana). But jealousy! No. Laxmana was an intelligent devotee of Rama, capable to understand that Sri Rama had all types of Devotees who come to earth to contribute their might, and help Rama in his mission. Therefore, he also hugged Hanuman with same love and reverence.

[ChiefCowpie]

In Search Of Sita

The urgency of finding Sita was visible in the movements of these devotees of Rama. It was decided that both Rama and Laxmana should take rest and wait for them to bring the news of the whereabouts of Sita. Thus Hanuman, Angad, Jambuwanta, and others reached the southern tip of India. The vast Indian Ocean was seen spread out as limitless expanse. No one knew what to do next. Hanuman was not prepared to return back to Rama without definite news of Mother Sita. He would rather put an end to life than go empty handed to his Master.

Thus, confused and with anxiety laden heart, almost dejected, these mighty Rama Bhaktas sat down on the rock near the sprawling ocean shore. Behind them, in a cave not far off, a huge vulture, almost famished with hunger, was pleased to see these people as his prey! Sampati was his name. His sense of hearing, vision, and smell were phenomenally acute. His power was such that he could eat a person in one bite! Thus, to satisfy his age-old hunger, he decided to attack one of them.

But, just then he heard Hanuman talking about Jatayu: How he had tried to protect Sita from the hands of Ravana. The sudden surprise of Sampati was attributed to Jatayu being his brother! To know more about Jatayu and his fate Sampati went near the group and inquired, "O noble ones, who are you? From whence do you come to this remote and lonely place? And may I know the details of your reference to my brother Jatayu?"

Thus spoken to, Hanuman narrated the valiant sacrifice Jatayu made in the attempt to rescue Sita. He further told Sampati about Rama, Laxmana, and Sita, and how Ravana had kidnapped Sita. They had come to that remote place in search of Sita. Sampati thought over the matter. When he realized that Sri Rama - the Lord Himself - had liberated the soul his brother, he also decided to help Rama in his mission to eliminate evil from this earth.

Sita Located In Lanka!

He could see for miles ahead across the sea. His penetrating vision could visualize every tiny detail on an island there. And, yes, on the island of Lanka, was seated a lady under the tree in a beautiful garden - Ashokvan. He realized that it was the kingdom of the mighty Ravana. He could also see that Sita was under arrest and many watchful eyes were on her, mostly of demon lady servants of Ravana. He narrated the scene to others. Angad, Hanuman, Jambuwanta and others were full of joy.

But their joy was short lived. Hanuman said that it was useless to go Rama without positive proof about Sita. Someone must go there to actually talk to Sita, confirm and return after which they should inform Rama. For this purpose said Hanuman, he had already brought the royal and private ring of Rama familiar to Sita on the basis of which someone could give Sita guarantee of early help and safe return back to Rama.

However, the question as to who could/would go to that far off land sprang up as a problem for which the answer was not forthcoming with ease. Sampati said that he could not go as he had become old and the power in his wings had left him. Angad said, if I was asked to go on land I would go any distance; but water! No, it was not possible for him to swim or jump so high and long.

Then Hanuman, the great Yogi, sits in meditation, repeating the holy name of his Chosen Ideal - Rama.

[ChiefCowpie]

Hanuman Jumps Across The Sea

During this meditation, Hanuman became aware of tremendous physical, mental, and spiritual powers bestowed upon him by the grace of the Lord. He became conscious about his ability to fly, become as big as the mountain, or as small as an atom. If he willed he could become invisible or carry out such unusual physical feats which were not possible for an ordinary mortal.

Waking from his deep state of introspection or meditation, the humble, but brave and powerful Hanuman mentally saluted Rama with firm resolve to conquer Lanka and seek release of Sita from her mental and physical sufferings.

"Jai Sri Rama" became the inspiring slogan for everyone to fill themselves with freshness and courage. The dullness and despondency, the anxiety, apprehension, and depression gave way to hope of victory. Hanuman said, "Dear brothers, Sri Rama has infused special powers in my life. I am sure I shall be able to cross this ocean in one jump."

Hanuman Leaps to Lanka

Everyone was delighted and shouted "Jai Sri Rama". Hanuman made himself big and tall and flew off to the distant Lanka across the ocean. He landed at the closed doors of the capital city that were guarded by the terrifying and vicious demons. He killed them one by one and entered Lankan kingdom. He made himself small and roamed in the city for further information on the whereabouts of Mother Sita. He searched for the way to Ashokvan where Sita was held hostage.

Everywhere Hanuman saw people deeply engrossed in sense enjoyment. Physical pleasure was all that people cared for - a tamasik indulgence, hedonistic preoccupation! Temples and places of worship were deserted or filled with blood of sacrificed animals whose meat was enjoyed by noisy demons.

Hanuman Meets Vibhishana

Hanuman could not tolerate this all. He was purity personified, being sattvika by nature. He could not find any food of his taste. He started searching for someone who would be of pious, simple, and religious by nature. Then as he was passing by a palace building, Hanuman heard a faint repetitive name of Rama -- Rama, Rama, Rama!

Who could be one in this Lanka taking the holy name of Rama! Hanuman wondered. With caution and care, he opened the gate of that palace-like building to find a demon couple worshipping the Lord and singing praise in the name of Rama. Hanuman saluted them in the name of Rama. It was surprising, but true, that this great devotee of Rama was none other than the younger brother of Ravana called as Vibhishana! Hanuman was accorded a very warm welcome by Vibhishana and his wife.

The talk went on to the ungainly and self-destructive height of "pride and ambitions" Ravana harbored. He did not approve of his brother Ravana lifting Sita from Panchavati. It was sure to lead to the downfall of the person as well as the people of his kingdom. Vibhishana had tried to persuade Ravana to see reason and set Sita free. It was improper and selfish to act this way. A mighty king should not have thus kidnapped a noble queen, already married to someone else.

Moreover, despite threats, Sita was firm not to marry Ravana. And if at all Ravana forced any such move, Sita could and would immolate herself in self created FIRE OF PURITY. This fire of purity would never allow Ravana even to come near Sita or touch her. Thus all attempts of Ravana to convince Sita for marriage were futile. In addition to the opposition from Vibhishana, Mandodari, wife of Ravana was dead against Ravana's intention of taking Sita as his best wife. But all this had made Ravana angry; and as is well known anger makes the person blind to see reason and rationality.

Vibhishana told Hanuman every detail about Sita. He told that Sita at that time was kept under the care of lady servants at gardens of Ashokvan. Ravana had disallowed Vibhishana to enter that garden where Sita was kept in custody.

It was left for Hanuman to try his own way without any help from within Lanka. But he was pleased to find a wonderful 'brother devotee' Vibhishana, as his friend and informer who would prove very useful for Rama to enter and conquer Lanka, and free Sita.

[ChiefCowpie]

Hanuman In Lanka ; Finds Sita

Vibhishana detailed Hanuman about the whereabouts of Sita. He showed the way to Ashokvan where Sita was kept captive. He also warned Hanuman to remain vigilant and cautious as Sita was guarded by police-women loyal to Ravana. Moreover, whole Ashokvan was surrounded by armed guards who would not hesitate to kill any intruder.

Thus forewarned, Hanuman saluted his newly formed friend and left for the garden for his first meeting with Mother Sita. It was easy for Hanuman to jump and climb the trees, to hide himself in the bushes or the leafy branches. He could, in addition, at his will, become very small and thus escape the attention of the guards. At last Hanuman entered the garden. He could see assembly of women around one Aryan lady whom Hanuman immediately recognized as Sita.

Condition of Sita In Ashokvana

The question vexed Hanuman's mind as to how to present himself before Sita. The problem had two dimensions: (1) Sita was surrounded by many attendants, and (2) Sita might take him to be a demon in form of an impostor monkey! She would refuse to accept him as a friend and devotee of Rama. Hanuman was sure that the second problem would be solved as he had brought the ring from Rama which Sita was sure to recognize as authentic.

Just then Hanuman heard shouts of 'Lankapati Ki Jai Ho -Victory to King Ravana'. Hanuman saw Ravana approaching the garden. Immediately he jumped up the tree under which Sita was seated. He hid himself nicely on one of the branches and decided to observe the proceedings below from there.

Ravana came towards Sita. His wife, Queen Mandodari, and a few other maid servants were accompanying the King. Ravana addressed Sita thus: "O beautiful lady, why do you persistently refuse my proposal of marriage? I will treat you as the first honorable queen of this vast empire. However, if you still think that Rama would come and seek your release, I am afraid, you are sadly mistaken. Nobody ever has dared to attack my kingdom, and if anyone does dare so, he and his army will be destroyed within days."

"Probably you are unaware of my power. Therefore, for the last time, I modestly ask you to become my wife. It would be an honour to you and joy for me." So saying, Ravana gave three day's time for her to finally make her decision. The negative answer would call for Ravana's wrath. The thin and emaciated Sita did not answer. How can she utter a single word when her whole mind and heart was engaged in constant prayer and Japa of Rama!

The scene below aggrieved Hanuman very much. For him Sita was embodiment of purity, simplicity, and tolerance. Impulsively, he wanted to jump and attack Ravana, but better sense prevailed. He knew that it would be counterproductive to act in haste. With heart full of mixed feelings of anger, pity, and helplessness, Hanuman started praying to Rama to give him courage to fulfill his mission of rescuing Sita from the clutches of Ravana.

Just then Mandodari, the queen of Ravana, intervened and told Ravana not to trouble a noble married woman with his hard words and ungainly demands. He told her husband to return Sita to Rama without delay, and with full honor and grace. But Ravana called Mandodari fussy and lacking faith in the prowess of her husband. It was not unusual for a king to have two (or three or more) wives; and secondly Rama had insulted his sister Shurpanakha which required to be avenged.

Hanuman Meets Sita

Hanuman listened to all these arguments but kept quiet. When Ravana left with his troupe, Hanuman decided to present himself before Sita. He silently dropped the ring bearing the name and seal of Rama in the lap of Sita. Surprised, Sita looked up to find a mighty monkey staring at her! But her surprise turned into emotion of joy when she found the ring to be genuine: of her Master Rama.

She therefore, beckoned Hanuman to come down. With folded hands, Hanuman presented himself before Mother Sita, tears pouring down his eyes. His voice was choked with emotion. He described how Rama was also suffering the pangs of separation. He assured Sita that soon Rama would come, conquer Ravana and take her back.

It would be logical here to think that Hanuman should lift Sita and fly across the ocean to reach his friends, and thence to Rama, and the story would have a pleasant end! But, no. Three factors are to be considered here.

1) That Hanuman was celibate from birth and had vowed to remain so throughout his life. Therefore, it was impossible for him to touch a woman without the permission and in absence of her husband;

2) That Sita also had vowed to remain loyal - faithful - to one man as her husband, and sitting over the shoulder of another person without permission and in absence of her husband would break her vow.

3) And to end the story at this juncture would be meaningless as the mission of Rama to end evil and wickedness and reestablish the rule of righteousness - the purpose of Divine Incarnation - would be incomplete.

It required putting an end to Ravana and his associates, and rewarding Vibhishana for taking side of Truth.

[ChiefCowpie]

Hanuman Plays Havoc In Lanka

It was decided that Hanuman should return and inform Rama about Sita's captivity so that he would come with his army and seek her release by defeating Ravana. Thus, taking leave of Sita, Hanuman wanted permission of Sita to eat some fruits from the trees around. He was very hungry. Sita permitted Hanuman to satisfy himself. Hanuman uprooted many trees so that he need not jump to pluck the fruits high up. The noise brought many guards to the scene. They tried to arrest this big mischievous monkey which was causing damage to their beautiful garden. But powerful Hanuman overpowered everyone of them and beat them up severely.

Someone ran to the royal chamber of Ravana and described how 'a monkey was causing havoc in Ashokvan'. Ravana was surprised to listen that an ordinary monkey could single handedly beat up his powerful men! He, therefore, sent his son Indrajeet to arrest the monkey and bring him to the royal court.

Hanuman Surrenders!

As ordered, Indrajeet, the powerful and obedient son of Ravana, reached Ashokvan to find the place in the most chaotic state. The trees were uprooted and the demon guards were running here and there to save their lives. Hanuman was as if making fun of them. Full of anger, Indrajeet challenged Hanuman to fight with him instead of his servants, saying,

"O monkey, you have done a great harm and insult to the kingdom of Ravana. I have come to arrest you and if resisted, I would send you to hell by killing you." Thus saying they both were engaged in fierce fight.

Soon Hanuman appeared to tire out and was arrested by Indrajeet and his subordinates. He was tied with ropes and brought to the court of Ravana. The secret of this arrest was that Hanuman deliberately got himself arrested so that he could reach the court of Ravana.

Hanuman wanted to assess the character, strength, and weaknesses of Rama's opponent which would be useful for them to plan their strategy to defeat Ravana. Thus tied and escorted by cruel looking army men, Hanuman was brought in presence of Ravana.

Hanuman Meets Ravana

On seeing him Ravana was furious with rage: "O insignificant monkey, who are you? And what business brings you here to get killed! Don't you know that this is the kingdom of Ravana where people like you have no place to live?"

Hanuman replied: "O proud King, how false is your claim! Till I am protected by Rama no one on this earth can injure me in the least, let alone kill me. But I will tell you who I am. Sri Rama has sent me here. He had told me to give this message to save your life by releasing Sita without any delay. It will be beneficial to you and your people. Otherwise the punishment Rama would bestow upon you will be of total annihilation! Be warned and heed this warning."

On hearing these arrogant words, Ravana was hurt to the core. He was furious that this monkey in the name of Rama had audacity to threaten him. Hence he ordered his minister to kill Hanuman on the spot. At this juncture, Vibhishana rose from his seat and politely said to Ravana:

"O mighty brother, have you forgotten the rules of treating the ambassador? What has happened to your intellect and reason that such a simple custom of honouring a messenger is lost on you. I request you to release Hanuman at most with a warning to leave Lanka and never to come back. Next time, if he is caught he may be punished more severely."

"And O mighty King", continued Vibhishana "It does not befit you to keep defenseless Sita under arrest. I support Hanuman's appeal to release her instantly with honour and dignity." At this, Ravana called Vibhishana a traitor and injured him by hitting him with his foot. Thus Vibhishana was gravely insulted by Ravana; and therefore, mentally Vibhishana resolved to join Rama in the war against his own brother.

Ravana meanwhile turned to his ministers and said, "Ok. Do not kill this monkey, but teach him a lesson for creating the nuisance in Lanka. Tie a long cloth to his most lovable tail and put it to fire."

Hanuman Burns Lanka

As ordered, the servants brought huge length of cotton cloth and tied it to the tail of Hanuman. Fire was applied to it. Hanuman by his special power increased the length of his tail by many many yards and started jumping here and there! He ran all around Lanka and in this process set most of the houses on fire! Hanuman was not hurt at all. Rama was there to take his care! At last Hanuman jumped in the waters of ocean and decided to return to his friends on the other side of the sea.

[ChiefCowpie]

Rama Prepares to Invade Lanka

Hanuman flew by aerial route and reached his friends Angad, Jambuwanta, Sugreeva and others who were eagerly waiting for his return. The news of Sita was received with jubilation. Immediately they all started off to inform Rama and Laxmana about their discovery so that future plans could be drawn to seek her release.

In Southern India at the base camp, Rama, Laxmana, Hanuman, Sugreeva, Jambuwanta, Angad and others met to chalk out their plan of action to seek release of Sita, now that the whereabouts of Sita were known. It was sure that Ravana was adamant and would not release Sita without force. It was imperative wage the war against mighty army of Ravana to achieve their goal.

But Rama and Laxmana had no army of their own, hence Hanuman appealed to all monkey leaders to rally behind Rama in this noble war of righteousness. A huge army of monkeys and bears was thus formed and Angad was chosen its leader. Rama and Laxmana had divine and supernatural powers. They could have easily defeated Ravana and his army, but the lord Rama wanted to unite various clans into one unified people. The division of society into lower and higher caste and superior and inferior races was a taboo that Rama wanted to erase from the face of Bharata -ancient India. Therefore, he sought help of monkeys and bears (lower clans) in his mission.

All the well-wishers, full of enthusiasm, participated in the noble cause lead by Rama. The monkey brigade marched on towards Lanka. They once again reached the southern tip of India and faced the mighty sea ahead! It stood as a mighty obstacle in their march ahead. Only Hanuman was able to cross it, but it was not possible for others to do the same. How could the whole army reach the shores of Lankan kingdom.

This almost impossible task forced Rama to over the solution, but none was in sight! Everyone became depressed and despondent. The enthusiasm of having found the whereabouts of Sita was lost in their inability to rescue her.

Bridge Over The Sea

Hanuman was restless. Constantly thinking of Rama and Sita, his mind was immersed in the depths of contemplation. He was sure that solution to this problem must be available as Rama was with them. But what would be the solution! He did not yet know. Can they all swim across the sea, no. Can they all fly over the sea, no. Engrossed in such deep thoughts and constantly taking the holy name of Rama, he threw a stone in the water in front of him. To his utter disbelief he saw that the stone was floating over the water!!!

He threw another stone and was puzzled that it sank down in the water, it did not float. He could not fathom the secret of this peculiarity: One stone staying afloat and the other sinking! He tried many times but in vain, all the stones subsequently sank down to the bottom of sea. He brought this peculiarity to the notice of his associates. But nobody could explain why one particular stone was floating when it should also have sunk. Angad, Sugreeva, Jambuwanta all tried but no stone remained afloat.

Then Hanuman took the name of Rama and also threw a stone, unintentionally though. And it stayed afloat! The mystery opened up its secret in the intelligent mind of Hanuman. "Oh, I see" shouted Hanuman in ecstasy, "Look brothers, when I throw a stone after taking the name of Rama it floats, and when I throw it without taking his holy name it sinks."

Everyone tried the same thing. And to their joy they all found stones remaining afloat when thrown in the name of Rama. Soon they decided to construct a floating bridge over the sea from Indian coast to the shore of Lanka. Rama also decided to contribute his share of labour. Therefore he threw a stone after taking his own name, but to his amazement the stone he threw did not float. Hanuman was watching this mysterious play of the Lord with great amusement. He came to Rama, bowed down in reverence, and said,

"O Rama, how can the one survive whom you reject? You are throwing this stone away, how can it float! it is surely doomed and would sink down and down. There is no liberation for any person (as well as non-living thing) who is denied your grace. Without your support nobody becomes fit to cross this ocean of worldliness! Taking your name is, However, sufficient to prevent drowning of mortals like us"

Story of tiny squirrel

A tiny squirrel was watching this divine play from a nearby tree. She also came down, rolled over the sand of sea shore, and then went over the bridge of stones. There she released the particles of sand in the name of Rama. This she continued for days together, oblivious to hunger and thirst. This was the most sincere contribution of a small animal for the noble cause. Thus every Indian takes pride in contributing, in whatever small way he/she can, in the noble spiritual mission.

[ChiefCowpie]

QUOTE Rama Nityananda dasa

"Salutations to you, Lord of lords.You are the Ancient; the Purusha and the Prakriti born of Purusha. You are the light which illumines the intellect of humans. This entire universe is established in you. It was born of you and it has no existence apart from you. After creating it, you, at the time of the deluge, withdraw it into yourself. You are the light beyond the sources of all light. "You stand at the edge of the sea of darkness, of Tamas which is all that is found at the end of Pralaya and you bring new life into the new creation which is born of the old. The cycle is unending and you are the cause behind the cosmos. It is to have a vision of you that rishis spend millions of years absorbed in meditation. You have no birth: no Karma to perform: no names nor any qualities to distinguish you from the others. And yet out of your Maya you create forms for yourself and these have names and qualities ascribed to them. "The formlessness of you is forgotten by those who see you take up a form for the good of the world. You are beyond the reach of the senses, the mind, the emotions, the intellect. Still though you are beyond comprehension there are some who have realised you by becoming one with you."

[sleeping jiva]

Rama Nityananda dasa: Jay Prabhupada! Hare Krishna :):)

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

gd kumar



Dear Rama Nityananda Dasa,

Thank you for your kind post but please save me. Please do not say that. Please say, 'Jaya Guru', 'Jaya Krishna'.

With love........Kumar.

Haribol prabhu!

It is better to praise the devotee of the devotee of the devotee!

Your humility is a wonderful example for all of us!

Jaya Guru and Gauranga!


Chief Cowpie

Thank you for such auspicious stories!

Jaya Sita Rama Laxman Hanuman!
Jaya Sita Rama Laxman Hanaman!:cool:


Your servant,

Rama Nityananda dasa

[gdkumar]

Dear Rama Nityananda Dasa,

Thank you for your kind words.

Dear brother, please bless me and pray for me that I can be a true devotee.

With love........Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Dear all,

Divine leela of the Leelamoy! Suddenly all seem to be so blissful, so beautiful and anandamoy!

Contributions of Sleeping Jiva,ChiefCowPie,SvgGrdnBeauty,Jagannatha Dasa,Yoga Lady, Rama Nityananda Dasa, BlackBillBlake and all others have eventually squeezed out only one thing, that is devotion.

Last posts by dear ChiefCowPie were enthralling. We are all soaked with Naradiya Bhakti.

Dear Sleeping Jiva, let us not bother now about what Karma and Akarma is.
Let us only remember,

"SARVADHARMAN PARITAJYA MAMEKANG SHARANANG BRAJA,
AHANG TANG SARVAPAPEVYA MOKHSOYSHYAMI MA SHUCHAH."
(From the Gita,Chapter 18-Moksha yoga,Shloka-66)

Let us all forget everything and surrender at His Lotus feet.

Yoga Lady,dear, please come back now and let all of us together chant the sweetest of all mantras, the mahamantra :

"HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA , RAMA RAMA HARE HARE."

With lots of love............Kumar.

[ChiefCowpie]

War Begins: Story of Kumbhakarna

The bridge was completed and one by one all of them reached near the shore of Lanka. Ravana's spies informed him about the approaching army of Rama, but the proud Ravana did not attach any significance and importance to this. Vibhishana, on the other hand, was quick to grab the opportunity and joined Rama in his noble mission.

Rama Tries To Settle The Issue With Peace

Angad was selected to represent Rama to give diplomacy a chance. Hence as a messenger/ambassador of Rama Angad reached the court of Ravana. He explained that Rama had sent him to seek release of Sita. Ravana should heed this last appeal of Rama so that the war could be averted. But no. Ravana did not accept the peace proposal. When he had such a great army, when he was immortal by the boon of the God, when he had all the super powers and instruments of war Ravana maintained that it was futile and immature of Rama to think of victory. Thus he took pity on Angad and his friends that they had come to Lanka to get killed.

Scornfully he also told Angad go back peacefully and forget about Sita. He would not attack the retreating army of Rama. Thus the talks failed. the war was sure to follow.
*
Angad returned to the camp and briefed Rama and others about the adamant attitude of Ravana not to free Sita. Rama, Laxmana, Hanuman, Sugreeva, and Vibhishana held a closed door meeting to chalk out their final strategy. Accordingly, Angad led one team of his brave soldiers and attacked the Lankan guards. After a brief fight, the guards were defeated and Angad and company entered the border of Lanka. Rama and others followed.

The news was received with mild concern by Ravana who sent more number of troops to attack the advancing men of Rama. Hanuman and his men defeated them too. Vibhishana was quick to guide Rama through the secret inroads. This disturbed Ravana and he decided to take the things more seriously. He therefore sent for Kumbhakarna, his brother with immense powers, to come to the court for urgent meeting with him. Ravana was sure that Kumbhakarna alone was powerful enough to defeat Rama and his army of 'monkeys'.

Story of Kumbhakarna

This Kumbhakarna used to remain awake for six months and sleep for next six months! As he was preparing to go to his long spell of sleep, the message of Ravana was delivered to him. Kumbhakarna was in no mood to fight. He also thought that Ravana was in wrong in inviting this unnecessary war due to his useless insistence to marry Sita. He accordingly advised Ravana to release Sita and put an end to this avoidable conflict.

However, he was a loyal and patriotic Rakshasa. He was proud of his ancestors and glory of the demon rule and prosperity of Lanka. Hence when Ravana appealed in the name of glory of their forefathers, in the name and honour of their clan and dynasty, Kumbhakarna agreed to terminate Rama for ever. Thus full of enthusiasm and well prepared for the ensuing battle, he led his army to the battle ground.

A fierce fight raged between the two armies. Many monkeys were killed so also many Rakshasas. Even Angad and Sugreeva were on the defensive. Hanuman was helpless. Therefore, Rama took charge of the front himself. Kumbhakarna was adept in taking various illusory forms to confuse his enemy. It was difficult to attack his true body! as many Kumbhakarnas used to appear in front. All the missiles and arrows eluded him.

Moreover, Kumbhakarna could create 'rain of fire' engulfing the enemy. This caused confusion and chaos amongst Rama's army. To this, Rama replied by pouring rain of water to put off the fire. Kumbhakarna poured 'rain of stones', and Rama countered by appropiate protective cover. The battle went on for quite some time. At last Rama attacked the demon with his most powerful arrow fortified with deadly divine missile. This hit the mighty Kumbhakarna at his vital centre that led to his downfall.

On the death-bed Kumbhakarna took the name of Rama and thus he was liberated from his base instincts and tendencies

[ChiefCowpie]

Laxmana Faints

The news of fall of mighty Kumbhakarna reached Ravana's court. With dismay and concern, Ravana quickly summoned his son Indrajeet and asked him to prepare for the deciding fight against Rama and Laxmana next day. Indrajeet was expert in all kinds of war games. In fact, second to Ravana, his son Indrajeet was the most powerful Rakshasa. He even easily surpassed his uncle -Kumbhakarna in many aspects. By special austerities and Tapas, he had once pleased God Brahma and had acquired special missile, as a boon, called Brahmastra. It could be used once only, but it was sure to render the opponent dead. Only rarely did it fail!

Thus armed with all these special powers and missiles, and with firm resolve to destroy Rama and his army, Indrajeet led his army to the battle ground. All Rakshasas were in joyous mood as they were sure of their victory under the leadership of Indrajeet. [The literal meaning of Indrajeet is 'one who has defeated the king of God -Indra!']

Rama and Laxmana took note of this. They knew about the special powers of Indrajeet. Rama decided to send Laxmana to face Indrajeet and advised Hanuman to accompany Laxmana. Laxmana could counter every move of Indrajeet. But failure made Indrajeet irritable and restless. His mind was not focused nor concentrated. Indrajeet, therefore, out of frustration and anger, threw the deadly Brahmastra at Laxmana. The missile was sure to hit its target. No one could have averted its impact, nor could anyone divert its course. No counter missile was discovered against Brahmastra.

Laxmana faints

Therefore, Laxmana stood silently with folded hands and started mental repetition of the name of Rama. He knew it was only in the capacity of Rama to lessen its force of impact. And indeed the missile hit him with tremendous force. The nearby monkeys were also shaken. Even powerful Hanuman was put off balance! What was the condition of Laxmana! It uprooted his feet from the ground. he lay flat unconscious on the ground, almost dead. His breathing had stopped. His chest was red and swollen due to the impact. Everyone was terrified and thought Laxmana to be dead.

But Hanuman could not believe that Rama's brother could ever die under the protective umbrella of Rama. He rushed to Rama and narrated the incidence. Rama knew what had happened. He urgently sent for the physician. Rama, the physician and Hanuman rushed to the site where Laxmana lay unconscious. The physician after examination said,

"O Rama, the impact of Brahmastra leads everyone to death. I wonder how Laxmana is still faintly alive! But there is a warning. If Laxmana does not receive a particular herbal medicine within 24 hours, he cannot be revived. So, O Rama, please arrange to bring the medicine without delay."

Hanuman Brings the Medicine

The medicine specified by the physician was a herbal medicine available on a particular mountain in the North India. Who could reach there and bring the medicine within a day! The hope that Laxmana would survive was mingled with sadness of impossibility of finding the medicine. But Hanuman was sure of one thing; he knew that presence of Rama could solve any problem. Hence, he saluted Rama and said, "O lord, I know you are putting your devotees to test. Please bless me that I succeed in my mission to bring that plant for the sure cure of Laxmana."

Rama was pleased with his most faithful and brave devotee. he blessed Hanuman and said, "O Hanuman, I am pleased with your devotion and faith in me. I know today you are the only one who could bring the plant and save my dear brother, Laxmana. I bless you, go and get the plant."

Hanuman acquired huge form and flew northwards high in the sky. Within hours he reached the destined mountain top. But to his dismay, he found innumerable plants adoring the mountain top. And imagine the confusion all those green plants created in the mind of Hanuman! Which plant would be needed for the medicine! Hanuman was not sure. Utter anxiety prevailed in the heart and mind of this noble servant of Rama.

The delay was sure to put Laxmana's life in danger, and incorrect choice of the plant was sure make his efforts useless; and moreover, would make him a laughing stock! This tragi-comic situation is very nicely described in the original text. We also feel one with Hanuman in his peculiar predicament.

The success was near and so far!

And then last minute intuition dawns in the intelligent mind of Hanuman. He decides to lift the whole mountain and take it to Lanka! Taking the name of Rama, "Jai Sri Rama", he lifted the mountain, which had become as light as a flower, Hanuman returned to Lanka in time. The medicine was prepared and put in the mouth of unconscious Laxmana. As if awakened from deep sleep, Laxmana got up yawning and said, "Where am I?"

[ChiefCowpie]

Indrajeet Is Killed

Rama had sent Laxmana to face Indrajeet to make the Brahmastra ineffective. Laxmana alone was capable of sustaining its impact; any other person was sure to die. As that missile could be used only once, Indrajeet became helpless. Now Rama decided to come in picture.

Next day, Indrajeet came to fight with Rama. The clash of weapons, noisy fights, and destruction all around made the battle ground the last desirable place to stay in. But show must go on! The illusory forms that Indrajeet took, made him a difficult target to hit. At times he would appear on the right, at others to the left, and at times he would fight even as floating in the sky. But Rama put an end to all his Mayawi warfare and killed him with one special arrow.

Mandodari Tries to Persuade Ravana to Release Sita

The victory cry in Rama's camp contrasted sharply with the hush in Ravana's court. The news of fall of their beloved son caused immense pain in the heart of father Ravana and mother Mandodari. Both of them rushed to battle field, took the body of Indrajeet in their lap, and cried like any other parents. Their grief and suffering brought tears to the eyes their opponents as well.

The last rite of Indrajeet were performed with full honour. Representative of Rama also attended the funeral and offered prayers to the departed soul.

With remorse Mandodari said to Ravana, "O Lord, look what your adamant nature has done. It has taken away our most powerful son in the prime of his youth. I pray to you, O Lord, to free Sita and hand over her to Rama where she rightfully belongs. There is still time to avert further destruction and peril. I do not want to lose you, O my dear husband!"

The pathetic appeal, although reasonable and rational, fell on the deaf ears. Ravana was full of grief at the loss of his son, but his pride did not allow him to see reason. He replied,

"O, queen, do not try to put me in the line of cowards. Do you think I should accept defeat when my son and brother have made such great sacrifices? You speak like the traitor brother Vibhishana who has joined the enemy's camp. Have you lost faith in my power and skill! Listen, come what may, I am determined to continue this fight to its end. Tomorrow you shall see one of the mightiest Kings victorious: either I or Rama!"

The Final Battle

Now Ravana decided to put an end to the war. He went to the temple of his chosen deity -Lord Shiva, and prayed and meditated for whole night. There was grace and serenity on the face of Ravana. Next day he was to fight with the Master of Universe Himself. He knew his death was near as The Lord had come in the form of Rama to liberate him from the worldly bonds.

Anger, hatred, jealousy, and pride were gradually leaving him, and instead calmness and strength pervaded his whole being. He became conscious of his tremendous powers. All magical or illusory skills, knowledge of special missiles, all grace of an warrior entered his mind, body, and psyche.

The text of Vedas and Scriptures became visible to him. His Mantra flashed in front of his eyes. Lord Shiva appeared in his vision and blessed him. Ravana was to die as he wished, was to be liberated by the Lord Himself.

The sunrise made everyone aware of the reality of the day. The battle between Rama and Ravana was about to be enacted; the battle that would be remembered for centuries to come! The gods in the heaven supplied a beautiful chariot to Rama. They also sent special garlands and robes for Rama and special bow and arrows were offered.

In the morning Rama worshipped his chosen Ideal: Lord Shiva! and embarked on his final mission in his chariot to the battle-field.

[ChiefCowpie]

Battle Between Rama and Ravana

Ravana was also ready in his huge chariot. The two armies arrayed themselves in special fronts. Rama and Ravana approached one another and halted at a distance. Conches and trumpets were blown, and the sound generated terror in the hearts of the opponents. Rama and Ravana saluted each other and the last fight began.

Ravana had ten heads which he had obtained as boon for his special worship of God. It also indicated extra intelligence, superhuman strength, and extra pride. It was also suggestive of long life, every head was compatible with life. Rama and Ravana hurled missiles at each other. Both were able to counter opponents attacks. When one head of Ravana rolled down, it was replaced by new one! If one arm of Ravana was cut, it was replaced by another! It was impossible to kill this powerful Rakshasa (demon).

Then Rama destroyed Ravana's chariot. But, instead of falling on ground Ravana flew high in the sky and started attacking Rama and his men with arrows and maces, and dropped magical fire and stones. Moreover, he took multiple forms to terrorize Rama's army. Some forms were having only head, while others were composed of trunks only! This "Mayawi Yuddha" -- Illusory War-- posed additional pressure on Rama to select the original Ravana and hit him. The energy was drained out from the tiring army men. Arrows and missiles made no impact on Ravana in the least. Many of the monkeys and bears from Rama's army were disheartened. They were tired and many tried to escape the rain of arrows and fire being poured by Ravana. Rama protected all his men by counter attacks and by providing special cover against Ravana's attacks.

Laxmana, Hanuman, Angad, Sugreeva, and Jambuwanta all tried their own missiles on mighty Ravana but in vain. When the arrow of Rama failed how could any other succeed!

The day turned into night, and both the armies retreated to their respective camps. The injured were treated with potions and ointments. Rama and Laxmana with their associates discussed the way and means to put an end to Ravana. But no definite answer could be had as Ravana was adept in this kind of war games. Moreover, he had the capacity to regenerate any lost part of the body. Death of Ravana was difficult to imagine!

Vibhishana Suggests The Trick

However, Vibhishana remembered something about his brother -Ravana - that had a great bearing on the outcome of war. He recalled how he once had faintly overheard the weakness in the body of Ravana -- and that weak spot was his umbilicus (middle abdominal region), not head, nor heart, nor neck! If Rama could hit the arrowhead in that localized spot, the life-sustaining nectar would spill and Ravana was sure to die.

Thus, armed with the special knowledge, next day, Rama put an end to Ravana's life with the arrow in his naval. The mightiest king on the earth fell. This brought to an end clanging of weapons and associated bitterness and ill feelings. The injured Ravana was counting his last breaths. Mandodari came rushing to her injured husband with eyes full of tears and heart filled with unexplainable pathos. Rama went to her consoled the lady with soft words of sympathy. He also gave her advice about the impermanence of life and reality of death as the only truth after birth. He proclaim to her and all the people around that Ravana will be remembered for eternity for his good as well as bad deeds.

Ravana Honoured

Then turning to Laxmana Rama said, "O dear brother, look the mighty Ravana is lying on his death bed. His knowledge of Vedas and Scripture is beyond doubt. But equally true is the fact that you will not find more knowledgeable authority on politics, statesmanship, and sociology on the earth today. Please go and get the knowledge from him."

Thus Laxmana, sitting at the feet of Ravana, learnt many useful things on diplomacy, politics, tax structure, social reforms, war preparedness and many more from him. When Ravana breathed his last, Rama himself conducted the last rites befitting the grandeur of Brahmin Rakshasa King. Thus one important aspect of the Divine Play - LEELA - enacted by the Lord came to an end.

Ravana and Hanuman, Laxmana and Sita, Sugreeva and Jambuwanta, (and all others) were but the actors playing their allotted or designated role. Nobody is all evil, nobody is all good! The human form by necessity brings weaknesses to the human character. Some appear sinner, some saint!

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Dear all,

Divine leela of the Leelamoy! Suddenly all seem to be so blissful, so beautiful and anandamoy!

Contributions of Sleeping Jiva,ChiefCowPie,SvgGrdnBeauty,Jagannatha Dasa,Yoga Lady, Rama Nityananda Dasa, BlackBillBlake and all others have eventually squeezed out only one thing, that is devotion.

Last posts by dear ChiefCowPie were enthralling. We are all soaked with Naradiya Bhakti.

Dear Sleeping Jiva, let us not bother now about what Karma and Akarma is.
Let us only remember,

"SARVADHARMAN PARITAJYA MAMEKANG SHARANANG BRAJA,
AHANG TANG SARVAPAPEVYA MOKHSOYSHYAMI MA SHUCHAH."
(From the Gita,Chapter 18-Moksha yoga,Shloka-66)

Let us all forget everything and surrender at His Lotus feet.

Yoga Lady,dear, please come back now and let all of us together chant the sweetest of all mantras, the mahamantra :

"HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA , RAMA RAMA HARE HARE."

With lots of love............Kumar.

Yes it indeed seams that we have finally broken away from the chains of arguments and for that I can smile. :)

Indeed I am wishing to that Yoga Lady would come back too...the thread can only get lighter.

Kumar, thank you for some lovely quotes...ChiefCowPie thank you for some lovely readings...

And now, since I am about to finish Bhagavad-Gita As It Is, I figure I can share something of what I've learned and something that jumped out a me the most, so I bookmarked it....

"One who works in devotion, who is a pure soul, and who controls his mind and senses, is dear to everyone, and everyone is dear to him. Though always working, such a man is never entangled."- Ch 5, Verse 7

I think that's some of the best advice and it sums up a lot of what the book is about. :)

Well, just thought I'd share. Have a great day all. And...

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

[sleeping jiva]

exactly. the only thing is Sri Krishna, beautiful Krishna, blue boy, who plays the flute :)

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

There are some beautiful pictures here http://gaurangapadaswami.tripod.com/id6.html:)


and puja page here http://www.in2-mec.com/GNpuja.html !

[ChiefCowpie]

http://gaurangapadaswami.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/krishna5ecp.gif


caught in the act of stealing butter

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Aww...that's the first time I've ever seen baby Krishna...he's so adorable...

[ChiefCowpie]

http://www.mandala.org/puri/puri_mj_carried.jpghttp://www.mandala.org/puri/dot_clear.gifhttp://www.mandala.org/puri/dot_clear.gifhttp://www.mandala.org/puri/dot_clear.gifhttp://www.mandala.org/puri/dot_clear.gif
Introduction
http://www.mandala.org/puri/hok_cover.jpgThe Heart of Krsna

http://www.mandala.org/puri/dot_clear.gif(Vaishnava Aparadha &
The Path of Spiritual Caution)



by
His Divine Grace
Om Visnupad
Srila Bhakti Promod
Puri Goswami Maharaja





The Heart of Krsna

(Vaishnava Aparadha & The Path of Spiritual Caution)

by His Divine Grace

Paramahamsa Vaisnava Thakura Srila Bhakti Promod Puri Goswami Maharaja

THE ETYMOLOGICAL development of the word aparadha is radhat arthat aradhanat- apagatah, which means "to be distanced from worship." Offenses committed at the lotus feet of Vaishnavas, the Devotees, distance one from devotional service to the Supreme Lord. But in a higher sense it means to be removed from the service of Sri Radha. All divine service to Krishna is being conducted under her direction. To offend her servitors is to make one unfit for her divine service. The whole aim of Krishna consciousness is radha-dasyam, the divine service of Sri Radha, and offenses at the lotus feet of Vaishnavas make one unfit for such service.

The Lord is overly protective of his devotees (bhakta-vatsala ). He cannot tolerate any offenses against them. They have bhakti (devotion), and they can awaken it within us. Bhakti is the sole means to attract Krishna, who is a slave of devotion. The same is true of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. The Caitanya-Bhagavata states:



A person can attain the shelter of Mahaprabhu only by the grace of a higher Vaishnava. Religious practices and even chanting the Holy Name without devotion is useless.





Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada writes in his commentary:





Without developing a spirit of service, chanting the Holy Name is vain. Real devotion can only be cultivated when one receives the blessings of an unalloyed devotee.





Bhakti means devotion. Vrndavana dasa Thakur says:





If a person commits an offense at the lotus feet of a Vaishnava, even though he may have received Krishna's mercy, he will never attain divine love, prema. (Chaitanya-bhagavata Madhya-lila 22.8)





Srila Prabhupada writes:





Even if one is a Vaishnava, if he commits offenses to the Holy Name, he becomes unfit to render pure devotion. Although it may appear that he is still being shown favor by the Lord as he continues to make a show of chanting without difficulty, the Lord is actually very displeased with him because of his antagonism toward devotees. Therefore, to give up nama-aparadha we must first give up sadhu-ninda or finding fault with devotees.





Regarding the phrase krsna krpa hoileo ("even though he may receive Krishna's mercy"), Srila Saraswati Thakur comments:





People may think that because an offender appears to continue to chant without difficulty, the Lord must still favor him, but they are wrong. The Lord is not even slightly moved by their sham devotion.





The author of Sri Caitanya-bhagavata, Vrndavana dasa Thakur, says that these statements are not his alone; they are the verdict of the Vedas. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur did not tolerate any disrespect towards genuine Vaishnavas. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu also emphatically denounced any insults directed at Vaishnava devotees. To understand the seriousness of vaisnava-aparadha, offending devotees, one must grasp the multi-faceted, multi-dimensional nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Mahaprabhu is the source of all incarnations in Kali-yuga and the savior of all souls. He is Krishna, the son of Maharaja Nanda, fully enriched with the mood and radiance of Sri Radha. Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Goswami offers prayers to all of these manifestations in the preface of Sri Caitanya-caritamarta:



vande gurun isa-bhaktan
isam isavatarakan
tat-prakasams ca tac-chaktih
krsna-caitanya-samjnakam



I offer my obeisances unto all the gurus, the devotees, the Lord's avataras, his expansions, his saktis (energies), and the primeval Lord Himself, Sri Krishna Chaitanya. (Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 1.1)





In the same way that Mahaprabhu is Krishna, he expands as Nityananda Prabhu (prakasa ), who is Balarama. Balarama's partial expansion is Sadasiva, Maha-Vishnu Avatara, whose counterpart in Chaitanya-lila is Advaita Acarya. What is left of Sri Radhika after Krishna has plundered her emotions and lustre is Sri Gadadhara Pundit. Sri Gadadhara and Svarupa Damodara are his sakti (energies). Bhakta means Srivasa Thakur who is Sri Narada Muni in Krishna-lila. Isa, Divinity means Mahaprabhu Himself. The complete conception of Divinity must include the predominating moiety and the predominated moeity. The slightest disregard to any one of these is equal to disregrading the Supreme Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Himself. There are two aspects to the guru principle: the siksa or instructing guru, and the diksa or initiating guru. Both are represented in Srivasa Thakura.



In the beginning of the second chapter of the Antya-lila of the Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja offers the following invocation:



vande ham sri-guroh


sri yuta-pada-kamalam
sri-gurun vaisnavams ca
sri-rupam sagrajatam
saha-gana-raghunathan vitam tam sa jivam
sadvaitam savadhutam parijana-sahitam
sri-krsna-caitanya-devam
sri-radha-krsna-padan
saha-gana-lalita-sri-visakhanvitams ca
</I>(Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila

I offer my obeisances unto the lotus feet of my Guru and to all the preceptors on the path of devotion. I offer my obeisances unto all the Vaishnavas and to Sri Rupa Goswami and his associates Raghunatha dasa, and Sri Jiva. I offer my obeisances to Advaita Acarya, Nityananda Avadhuta, Gadadhara Pundit, and to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu with all his devotees, headed by Srivasa Thakura. I then offer my obeisances to the lotus feet of Sri Radha and Sri Krishna, and all the gopis headed by Lalita and Visakha.


(Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 2.1)

In the above invocatory prayers (mangala-carana ), the Vaishnavas are venerated. Kaviraja Goswami writes further:





Before beginning the narration of the pastimes of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, simply by meditating on Sri Guru, the Vaishnavas, and Divinity, I invoke their benediction. Such meditation destroys all detriments on the spiritual path, and helps one to fulfill all their desires.We must note very carefully that the Vaishnavas have been included within the full conception of Divinity.

[ChiefCowpie]

These writings describe the Vaishnava's extraordinary qualities, and the spiritual benefit resulting from serving them. There are also several warnings regarding the disastrous effects of vaisnava-aparadha. The Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 19.156 states:

If a devotee commits vaisnava-aparadha, his offense is like a mad elephant uprooting and trampling his creeper of devotion; afterwards the creeper's leaves dry up and become lifeless.There are three categories of Vaishnavas: kanistha (neophyte), madhyama (intermediate), and uttama (advanced) described in the Caitanya-caritamrta. Kaviraja Goswami states that to gain shelter of a Vaishnava, it is imperative to first receive the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu:

All of the Vaishnavas who live in Vrndavana are absorbed in singing the all-auspicious name of Sri Krishna. Sri Mahaprabhu and Nityananda are their life and soul. They do not know anything but devotion to Sri Radha and Krishna. My shelter at the Vaishnavas' lotus feet has been granted only by the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu.Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prahhupada corroborates this fact:

All of the Vaishnavas living in the holy dhama of Sri Vrndavana are very fortunate souls. They have taken shelter in the Holy Name of Krishna. Sriman Mahaprabhu and Nityananda are their life and soul. They know nothing but the eternal service of Sri Radha and Sri Krishna. Krishna's mercy descends only through the Vaishnavas. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura, a nitya-siddha (eternal associate) of the Lord, instructs the devotees to pray to Mahaprabhu. He says that we should seek shelter in the shade of a Vaishnava's lotus feet, shed tears of remorse with total humility, submitting to him the plight of our material existence, which is the result of turning away from Krishna. The Vaishnava is an ocean of compassion and feels the pain of others. When he pleads on our behalf to the Lord, Krishna responds and kindly accepts us as the followers of his favorites. Krishna's mercy descends only through the Vaishnavas.

There is Krishna and karsna. Krishna's mercy is embodied in pure devotees, who are known as karsna. The lotus feet of a Vaisnava guru represents the mercy of the Lord. Krishna is the priceless treasure enthroned in Sri Guru's heart. The Lord can easily give this treasure to those who are surrendered to his devotees. There is no other way to receive Krishna's grace than to serve and take shelter at the lotus feet of a Vaishnava. Sri Kaviraja Goswami discusses the importance of honoring the Vaishnava's remnants, using the example of Sri Kalidasa, the uncle of Raghunatha Dasa Goswami:

Taking the food remnants of Vaishnavas is so potent, it forced Mahaprabhu to give his mercy to Kalidasa. Don't hesitate-eat the Vaishnava's remnants, and you will fulfill your heart's desire.

Food offered to Krishna is called maha-prasadam. After maha-prasadam is taken by a devotee, his remnants are glorified as maha-maha-prasadam. The dust of a pure devotee's feet, the water of his foot bath, and his food remnants are three extremely potent spiritual substances. By honoring these three, one will be filled with ecstatic love for Krishna. All the scriptures declare this again and again. My dear devotees, please hear me: believe in these three and honor them in a mood of service, and you will achieve the purpose of your existence-ecstatic love of Krishna. This is the greatest mercy of Krishna, and Kalidasa is living proof.

In Kalyana-Kalpataru, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur writes:

When will Mahaprabhu shower his mercy upon me so I may have shelter in the shade of the Vaishnava's lotus feet? I will humbly stand before the Vaishnava holding a straw between my teeth, weeping I will tell him of my miserable life, and I shall give up all self-deception. I will admit that my life is one never-ending misery and beg him to put an end to all of this. The kind Vaishnava will beg Sri Krishna with all his might, and Krishna, moved by the Vaishnava's sincerity, will shower his divine grace.And in Saranagati, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur writes:

O Vaishnava, you are an ocean of mercy. Please shower your compassion upon me. Give me the shade of your lotus feet and purify my polluted heart. I am following you, begging-Sri Krishna is yours-you have the power-give him to me!Narottama dasa Thakura sings a similar song:

I am so sinful; how can I possibly serve the Lord? I have no love for my guru. I have no love for the devotees and I am constantly deluded. I am so absorbed in material life that I haveforgotten who I am. The witch Maya is waiting to hang a noose around my neck. I have no power to resist her on my own. I am helpless without your mercy. I know that you never see the faults of anyone, so I'm begging you-please save me." (Prarthana )Narottama's songs are filled with wonderful glorification of Vaishnavas. They are treasured by all devotees as priceless instructions for increasing one's devotion. From his childhood, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada chose Narottama's songbook as his constant companion on the path of devotion. Vrndavana dasa Thakura considered himself to be the last direct servant of Nityananda Prabhu. He has glorified the Vaishnavas throughout his masterpiece Sri Caitanya-Bhagavata. In his introduction he writes:

I first offer my unlimited obeisances at the feet of Sri Krishna Chaitanya's dearest associates, the devotees. And then I pray to him, who appeared in Nabadwip and was also known as Visvambhara. Sri Vrndavana dasa offers his humble obeisances unto Mahaprabhu's devotees, and then to Sri Mahaprabhu. He explains:

The Supreme Lord has boldly declared in all the scriptures that 'The worship of my devotees is higher than worshipping me.' By first glorifying the Vaishnavas, I am guaranteed success in writing my book. (This statement was made by Krishna to Uddhava in the Srimad-Bhagavatam.)The next statement is from the Itihasa-Samuccaya :

If one wants God's mercy, he must first serve his devotees. Only this will satisfy the Lord; of this there is no doubt.The following verse, from the Pausayana-Sruti, is quoted in Srila Madhvacarya's commentary on the Brahma-Sutra :

Worship the devotees, serve them, hear from them, and they will protect you.The Mundaka-Upanisad states:

If you want the real treasure of liberation you must serve the Lord's pure devotee.In his Govinda-Bhasya commentary, Baladeva Vidyabhusana quotes Srimad-Bhagavatam :

jnane prayasam-udapasya namanta eva
jivanti sanmukharitam bhavadlya-vartam
sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhir
ye prayas'o 'jita jito'py asi tais tri-lokyam
(Srimad-Bhagavatam</I> 10.14.3)Brahma prayed to Krishna,

My dear Lord, those who have given up abstract thinking and armchair philosophizing, start hearing about you from devotees and begin divine service with their body, mind, and words. Although you are unconquerable and rarely attained, you are conquered by them. In the Padma Purana, Shiva says to his wife Parvati:

O Goddess, higher than the worship of all the gods and goddesses is the worship of the Supreme Lord Vishnu. But higher still is the worship of everyone and everything that is dear to Him, including Ganga devi, Tulasi devi, the book Bhagavata and the devotee Bhagavata.Vrndavana dasa cautions us against seeing Vaishnavas externally. Such superficial vision is condemned:

In order to teach us the absurdity of judging devotees externally according to race, color, family, or other considerations, the Supreme Lord arranged for Haridasa Thakura to take birth in the lowest section of society. All the scriptures emphasize that if a pure devotee appears even in the lowest social circumstances, he is still to be worshipped by everyone.
A Vaishnava may appear in any family or section of society, yet he is still the most elevated person by the decree of the scriptures.God is the protector of all living entities, and he cannot tolerate insults and disrespect shown to his devotees. Extremely mindful of his dear devotee's well-being, he refuses to accept any worship from those who slight them. The Lord loves his devotees so much that he not only accepts food and gifts from them, but sometimes he even steals their offerings! Whereas he is repulsed by offerings from a non-devotees.

In one pastime, Krishna was very eager to eat plain chipped rice cooked by Vidura's wife, and ignored a royal feast set by Duryodhana. Similarly the Lord could not resist eating the few morsels of flat rice offered by Sudama. He told him:

O Brahmin! What wonderful things have you brought for me from your home? Even a small offering from a devotee is a grand feast for me, whereas a non devotee's feast cannot satisfy me in the least. Anything offered to me with love, I accept with love. Sriman Mahaprabhu quotes from the Itihasa Samuccaya, recorded by Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja:

A person may learn all the Vedas, but if he has no devotion, how can he be my devotee? Whereas if a person born into the lowest section of society has devotion, he is very dear to me. All respect must be given to such an elevated soul. His offerings must be accepted by all, for he is as much worthy of worship as I am.

[ChiefCowpie]

Mahaprabhu also quotes Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya:

A Brahmin's sins are burnt to ashes by the powerful fire of krsna-bhakti. Whereas if a Vedic scholar is an atheist, he is derided. Anyone devoid of devotion may take birth in a great family or nation, have extensive knowledge of the scriptures, perform austerities, or chant Vedic mantras, but such things are like ornaments on a dead body. Only fools will be impressed.When Mahaprabhu went to embrace Haridasa Thakura, with all humility Haridasa said to him:

My dear Lord, please do not touch me. I am most fallen, the lowest of men. Mahaprabhu replied: I want to touch you just to purify myself. You are so pure, it is as if at every moment you are bathing in all the sacred rivers, visiting all the holy places of pilgrimage, and performing every sacrifice, austerity, and charity imaginable. You are more exalted than any Brahmin or sannyasi. The Lord then recited this sloka from the Srimad Bhagavatam:

One who always chants your Holy Name, even though born in the worst circumstances, is a saint. We can understand that he must have performed all austerities and sacrifices, bathed in all the holy rivers, and mastered the Vedas. Therefore he is a true Aryan (one who is pure).In the Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda, it is declared:

When a person is admitted into Vishnu's family, he is called a Vaishnava. It has been said that of all people, the Vaishnava is certainly the most exalted. The Dvaraka-Mahatmya states:

A person who is devoted to Janardana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is a saint even if he is born into a low-class family; whereas if a person is born into an aristocratic family of noble lineage and is not a devotee of the Lord, he is of bad blood. Any association with non-Vaishnavas or with Brahmins who lack devotion is categorically denounced. The Padma Purana states:

The association of meat-eaters is strictly prohibited because their lifestyle goes against scriptural regulations; in the same manner, contact with a non-Vaishnava Brahmin must be avoided. Whereas a Vaishnava-one who is initiated and who is affectionate to the Lord and his devotees--even if born into a low-class family, is capable of purifying all three worlds. Vrndavana dasa says that intimate association with non-Vaishnavas, regardless of their parentage, is suicidal. According to the Padma Purana, the characteristics of a Vaishnava are as follows:

One who is dedicated to worshipping Vishnu, who has received initiation into a Vishnu-mantra, is classified as a Vaishnava by spiritual preceptors; all others are non-Vaishnavas." (Hari-bhakti-vilasa 1.55)Those who are simply born into a Brahmin family but are non-Vaishnavas, and who are inimical towards Vishnu and Vaishnavas, are condemned. Vrndavana dasa cries out against these namesake Brahmins, citing the Varaha Purana:

In Kali-yuga, demons will be born in smarta Brahmin families to harass and torture the righteous devotees of the Lord. The demons choose Kali-yuga to be born in, so they can torment those rare persons who adhere to the path enunciated by the Vedas (sruti ). They viciously attempt to disrupt the devotee's service to the Supreme Lord.These Brahmin impostors view Vaishnavas who have a bad background with contempt. They scoff at their spiritual practices, or when they see them receive honor and respect, they vainly try to expose the Vaishnava's background, and other mundane trivialities. The Brhad Aranyaka Sruti describes them, saying:

One who leaves the world fully understanding the Absolute Truth is honored as a Brahmin, but one who does not has wasted his life.According to Sri Krishnadasa Kaviraja, not only should one not consider the form of God to be mundane, but the same is true of his devotees.As written by Srila Krishna-Dvaipayana Vyasadeva, the author of Srimad-Bhagavatam:

There is no greater blasphemy than to think that the body of Vishnu is material. And Mahaprabhu says: The Vaishnava's body is never mundane; it is supramundane, and supercharged with ecstasy. (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi-lila 7.155, Antya-lila 4.191)The use of the term atmasama does not imply that pure devotees are equal to the Supreme Lord in every respect. The Supreme Lord is the only one who possesses transcendental qualities to an infinite degree. The jiva can only possess these qualities to a finite degree.

Mahaprabhu says: "The finite and the Infinite can never be considered equal, just as a tiny spark is never equal to a fire." The following verse is found in the Bhagavat Sandarbha and also in Sridhara Swami's commentary to the Srimad-Bhagavatam:

The Supreme Lord is the embodiment of eternality, knowledge, and bliss. Two of his multifarious spiritual energies are: hladini-sakti, the pleasure-giving potency, and samvit, perfect knowledge of the self and all other things, while the jivas are cocooned in ignorance, and deeply anchored in suffering.Only by taking complete shelter of Sri Radhika and her serving group, the hladini sakti, can we realize our innate spiritual identity and service to the holy lotus feet of Sri Guru, Gauranga, and Krishna. Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja explains further why a pure Vaishnava's body is aprakrta, or supramundane:

At the time of diksa (initiation), the devotee surrenders to Krishna with body and soul. In reciprocation, Krishna accepts him, elevating him, body and soul, to a status equal to his own. The Lord transforms the Vaishnava's body and makes it a repository of transcendental emotions." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 8. 192-193)He then quotes the Srimad-Bhagavatam:

When people reject materialism and conduct their lives under my direction, they attain immortality. They become eligible to be with me and share spiritual emotions (rasa ) with me in their spiritual identity." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.29.34)But what is meant by surrender, Srila Saraswati Prabhupada writes in his Anubhasya commentary:

Although one who has completely renounced the world (akincana ) and one who is completely sheltered in Krishna (saranagatah ) may appear to be the same externally, the devotee who has given up the world has also offered his soul. At the time of initiation, the devotee gives up material conceptions while he begins to understand sambandha-jnana, one's eternal relationship with God and those who are part of the family of God. When the devotee gives up the shelter of maya, he takes shelter of Krishna and is Krishnized. At this stage, the devotee's delusion as enjoyer of material pleasures dissipates, and his real self merges with his new identity as an eternal servant of Krishna. The devotee attains his spiritual body (sac cid ananda svarupa )and his eternal service to Krishna, serving him in his own transcendental form. The pure devotee's ecstatic service is an elevated stage of devotion which is often misinterpreted and misunderstood by those unacquainted with the science of devotion. For this kind of aparadha one is deprived of the shelter of a Vaishnava guru." (Anubhasya, Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya 4.193)

Mahaprabhu taught everyone that a Vaishnava's transcendental body is unlike that of an ordinary person, or even an extraordinary person. The Lord did not view personalities like Haridasa Thakura, who took birth in a low-class family, or Sanatana Goswaml, whose body was diseased, or Vasudeva Vipra, who was suffering from acute leprosy, as social outcasts or disease ridden beggars. Instead he embraced them, proving that a pure devotee's body is never impure. The pure devotee's body is transcendental, infused with spiritual bliss, and best suited to serve Krishna. As the Lord himself says:

mad-bhakta-pujyabhyadhika
sarva-bhutesu man-matihThe worship of my devotees is the real worship of me. In fact it is higher than worshipping my very self. (Bhag. 11.19.21) My dear devotees, please read and listen carefully to the divine stories and instructions that follow, and pray to the Supreme Lord and his devotees-the Vaishnavas-that we may always worship and adore them, and thereby enter The Heart of Krishna.

[sleeping jiva]

I can understand someone getting a little bewildered about our relationship with Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers before his letters and conversations were published, but what excuse does anyone have now? Any of Srila Prabhupada's so-called disciples who still insist on associating with Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers or godnephews after reading the quotes below are obviously not very sincere or very serious about following Srila Prabhupada's instructions. Pratyatosa dasa (http://www.krishna.org/?author=Pratyatosa dasa) (06-13-04)</STRONG></FONT>

Dear Prabhus,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Please keep in mind, while reading the quotes below, that Srila Prabhupada has never retracted any of them. Some extremely self motivated people might say that he apologized to his godbrothers on his death bed, but how can this be considered any more than just polite talk, or setting an example for his disciples of how to try and make amends before leaving this material realm?

Also, I have never heard of any tape recording which documents this supposed apology, and it's not in the VedaBase. Where is the proof?

Even if Srila Prabhupada did apologize to some of his godbrothers, how could this be considered a retraction, especially for the April, 1974 letter to Rupanuga, which is a signed document, and which contains the instruction to all of his disciples, "This is my instruction to you all." No contradictory instruction that even comes close to this direct, authoritative, signed document has ever been produced.

I can understand someone getting a little bewildered about our relationship with Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers before his letters and conversations were published, but what excuse does anyone have now? Any of Srila Prabhupada's so-called disciples who still insist on associating with Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers or godnephews after reading the quotes below is obviously not very sincere or very serious about following Srila Prabhupada's instructions.

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY INTIMATE CONNECTION WITH THEM

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Pradyumna 02/17/68:

"Regarding Bhakti Puri Tirtha Maharaja, they are my God-brothers and should be shown respect. But you should not have any intimate connection with them as they have gone against the orders of my Guru Maharaja." NO POSSIBILITY OF COMPROMISE

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Narayana Maharaja 9/30/69:

"Regarding the 92 section case against the Gaudiya Math, I don't think there is any possibility of compromise. Both the Bhagbazar Party [Sridhar Maharaja's group] and Mayapur party [Tirtha Maharaja's group] have unlawfully usurped the missionary institution of Srila Prabhupada, and whenever they will talk of a compromise, it means another complication." MY FOURTH-CLASS GODBROTHERS

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Hayagriva 9/14/70:

"Disturbance is caused by ignorance; where there is no ignorance, there is no disturbance. The four Sannyasis may bark, but still the caravan will pass. There is every evidence that they are influenced by some of my fourth-class Godbrothers." THEY WILL BE ENVIOUS

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Yamuna 11/18/70:

"Regarding the Gaudiya Math, our position has nothing to do with them. They cannot do anything and if somebody does something, they will be envious. That is the nature of third class men." MY GODBROTHERS GAVE ME ONLY DEPRESSION

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Gurudasa 8/29/72:

"Do not be depressed. All along my godbrothers gave me only depression, repression, compression--but I continued strong in my duty. So never mind there is some discouragement, continue with your work in full enthusiastic Krishna Consciousness attitude of service." THEY HAVE ALL BECOME SUDRAS

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Niranjana 5/21/73:

"Our big, big godbrothers in India, they could not preach Lord Gauranga's name all over India. They are simply inclined to criticize me, that my students call me Prabhupada. They could not do anything practical and tangible. They are satisfied with a temple and a few disciples begging alms for the maintenance of the temple.

"So, we can understand that they have all become sudras. How can they have interest in Bhagavad-gita. Although some of them have been born in brahmana families, but by quality are all sudras." GAUDIYA MATH BOOKS SHOULD NOT BE CIRCULATED IN OUR SOCIETY

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Sukadeva 11/14/73:

"Regarding the Gaudiya Math books being circulated there, who is distributing? Who is sending these books? The Gaudiya Math does not sell our books, why we should sell their books. Who has introduced these books? Let me know. These books should not at all be circulated in our Society. Bhakti Vilas Tirtha is very much antagonistic to our society and he has no clear conception of devotional service. He is contaminated. Anyway, who has introduced these books? You say that you would read only one book if that was all that I had written, so you teach others to do like that. You have very good determination." THIS IS MY INSTRUCTION TO YOU ALL

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Rupanuga 4/28/74:

"In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya. So it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them." THEIR PROPOSAL FOR COOPERATION IS A MYTH

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to aCUTANANDA 6/8/74:

"You should not write anything to Madhava Maharaja's camp. You may have talked many things with Mangala Niloy but why write him in black and white. The letter must not be sent. Their policy has been all along to suppress me and take credit for himself. Their proposal for cooperation is a myth. They haven't done anything which is cooperative. You know in a recent article they managed to write in such a way that Madhava is doing the world movement and we are his subordinate. From the beginning that has been their mentality. So there is no possibility of cooperation with them. Rather you should avoid strictly meeting with them. They are not after preaching but material gain and reputation and adoration. Otherwise why they are non cooperating with me? So no cooperation is possible. Do not think or indulge in loose talks. Be careful always. Let us do the duty of propagation sincerely and seriously on our own principles. Krsna and Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura are our only hope and they and helping us. If anything thing has to be done it is to be talked on the higher level between Madhava Maharaja and myself, but I know his mentality is different and there is no possibility of cooperation." SMASHED...ON ACCOUNT OF PERSONAL AMBITIONS

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Karandhara 10/8/74:

"In India some of the important members they have collected huge amounts in the name of the Society and spent it luxuriously. I wanted you all my experienced disciples should manage the whole institution very cleverly without any personal ambition like ordinary materialistic men. The Gaudiya Math institution has become smashed, at least stopped its program of preaching work on account of personal ambitions." MY GODBROTHERS ARE CONCERNED WITH POLITICS

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Subala 10/15/74:

"My other godbrothers they are concerned with litigations, politics, and diplomacy, so what is the pracara? As far as I am concerned I have the blessings of my guru maharaj. I do not need anything else. That is how I went to your country, just to try to carry out his order. By his blessings it has come out successful." THEY ARE NOT EVEN ORDINARY HUMAN BEING

Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation with a Reporter in Johannesburg 10/16/75:

[sleeping jiva]

"Krsna sakti vina nahe krsna name pracara: 'Without Krsna's special power of attorney, nobody can preach His name.' Caitanya-caritamrta. So these rascals, Godbrothers, they are envious that... What he has written? Bon Maharaja. Just see what kind of men they are. They are not even ordinary human being. They are envious of me, and what to speak of make a judgment by estimation? They're envious. Enviousness is immediately disqualification of Vaisnava, immediate. He is not a human being. Paramo nirmatsaranam satam. This Bhagavatam is meant for the person who is completely not envious. That is the beginning. Why a Vaisnava should be envious for anyone? Everyone is working according to his karma. He is trying to rectify him, that 'Be out of these clutches of karma. You come to bhakti.' Why he should be envious? Vancha-kalpatarubhyas ca krpa-sindhubhya eva ca. A Vaisnava should be like ocean of mercy to reclaim the fallen souls. That is Vaisnava's qualification. So Vaisnava should be envious? Just see. So these persons, they are not even human being, what to speak of Vaisnava. Vaisnava cannot be envious. Vaisnava should be: 'Oh, my Lord's name is being broadcast. He is getting, giving so much service to make Krsna known.' That man has appreciated, that 'All these spiritual leaders, they are deriding. You are the only man... You are... It enthuses us, give us more encouragement, that you are keeping intact, love of Krsna.' This is an appreciation. Why he should be envious? He should be, rather, very much enthused that 'This single man is keeping Krsna all over the world.' And everyone is deriding. Even Gandhi is killing Krsna. Dr. Radhakrishnan is killing. Their only business is to kill Krsna. He is also doing that, our, this Bon Maharaja. He never speaks of Krsna. His rascal, that Institute of Indian Philosophy, nobody goes to [pass] urine there. We see practically. And our temple is always filled up, five hundred men. And he is trying for the last forty years. He is simply planning: 'This will be playground. This will be this ground. This will be this ground.' And it is becoming jungle. Still, he is so envious, black snake. So one circular letter should be issued to all our center, that 'Any Bon Maharaja or anyone, his representative, should not be received.' They are envious. Yes. Quoting that. We have got several complaints like that. Satsvarupa also complained. Sometimes our order was cancelled by Bon Maharaja's propaganda." IN THE GAUDIYA MATH POLITICS IS STILL GOING ON

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Gurukrpa, 9/30/75:

"Why is there this politics? This is not good. If politics come, then the preaching will be stopped. That is the difficulty. As soon as politics come, everything is spoiled. In the Gaudiya Math the politics is still going on. My Guru Maharaja left in 1936, and now it is 1976, so after 40 years the litigation is still going on. Do not come to this." PLEASE AVOID MY GODBROTHERS

Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Visvakarma, 11/9/75:

"So I have now issued orders that all my disciples should avoid all of my godbrothers. They should not have any dealings with them nor even correspondence, nor should they give them any of my books or should they purchase any of their books, neither should you visit any of their temples. Please avoid them." THEY ARE DRESSING LIKE VAISNAVA, AND THEY ARE SO ENVIOUS

Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation in Bombay 1/8/77:

"There are similarly men also. Unnecessarily they are envious, offensive, unnecessary. They cannot tolerate others' opulence. Just like our Godbrothers. They are envious. What I have done to them? I am doing my business, trying to serve my Guru Maharaja. But they are envious because I am so opulent. I have got so much fame, so many influence, so much influence all over the world. Everyone is praising me about... That is ignorance. And this is regrettable because they are posing themselves as Vaisnava. Ordinary man can do that, but they are dressing like Vaisnava, and they are so envious. That Tirtha Maharaja, unnecessarily he was envious, whole life fighting, fighting, fighting in the court and died. Simply planning." THESE PEOPLE ARE ENVIOUS

Srila Prabhupada's Room Conversation in Vrindaban 5/24/77:

"If somebody thinks, 'Oh, here is a snake with jewel. Let me embrace him, no, no, no, it is very ferocious. Even it is jewel there, it is ferocious. Similarly, these people are envious. Although they have become so-called Vaisnava, they are ferocious. They have not acquired the qualification of Vaisnava. Simply vesopidin(?), by dress."

"[Krishna consciousness] is simple for the simple, but it is very hard for the crooked." (Initiation lecture by Srila Prabhupada, Boston 12/26/69)

The "simple" disciple of Srila Prabhupada will simply follow his or her spiritual master's instructions, and refuse to associate with any of Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers or godnephews. The "crooked" disciple, on the other hand, finds so many excuses to try and rationalize such forbidden association. Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Jaganathadasa]

Sorry prabhu but why has this been brought up again, just as everyone was getting on so nicely?

If Prabhupada had lived another 30 years these things may have been sorted out. Or maybe not. But as Vaishnavas we should use our intelligence in carrying out the wishes of Sr Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

The Vaishnavas were around before my siksa guru and I'm sure continuing this feud would not have been his intention forever. He was not a resentful man. It is as ridiculous as ISKCON trying to copyright the Mahamantra!

The more branches of Caitanyas movement the better! All the world can then chant Hare Krishna! and return to Godhead.

Love and respect.

Haribol!

[ChiefCowpie]

Sorry prabhu but why has this been brought up again, just as everyone was getting on so nicely?agree

Non-Sectarian Vaisnava-Dharma

Food for thought from the Visva Vaisnava Raja Sabha

(World Vaisnava Association - WVA)

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur on the nature of sectarianism from the introduction to the Sri Krsna Samhita:

"The people of India and other countries may be divided into two categories- the asslike and the swanlike. Of these two, the asslike are in the majority. The swanlike are in the minority. Swanlike people abstract the purport of the scriptures for their own advancement and thus benefit themselves...

Everyone has the right to discuss spiritual topics. Yet people are divided into three categories according to their qualifications. Those who do not posses independent power of discrimination are in the first category and are called neophytes, or those with soft faith. They have no alternative to faith. If they do not accept whatever the compilers of the scriptures write as the order of the Lord, then they fall down. They are qualified only for understanding the gross meanings of the science of Krsna; they have no qualification for understanding the subtle meanings. Until they gradually advance by good association and instruction, they should try to advance under the shelter of faith. Those who have not yet succeeded in connecting faith with argument are second grade persons, or madhyama-adhikaris. And those who are expert in connecting these two are perfect in all respects. They are able to attain perfection by utilizing material resources in their independent endeavors. They are called topmost persons, or uttama-adhikaris...

Sectarianism is a natural byproduct of the Absolute Truth. When acaryas first ascertain and instruct the Truth, it is not polluted with sectarianism. But the rules and regulations received through disciplic succession regarding the goal and the method of achieving it are changed in due course of time according to the mentality and locale of the people. A rule that is followed by one society is not necessarily accepted in another society. That is why one community is different from another. As a community gradually develops more respect for its own standards, it develops hatred towards other communities and considers their standards inferior. These sectarian symptoms are seen in all countries since time immemorial. This is prominent amongst neophytes and found to some extent amongst madhyama-adhikaris. Amongst uttama-adhikaris, however, there is no trace of sectarianism. Adherence to a particular standard is the prominent symptom of a society. There are three types of standards-alocakagata, alocanagata, and alocyagata. Alocakagata is when sectarianists accept some external signs. Examples of alocakagata are tilaka, neck beads, saffron robes, and the baptism that is practiced abroad.

The different activities practiced in the process of worship are called alocanagata. Examples of alocanagata are sacrifices, austerities, fire sacrifices, vows, studying scriptures, deity worship, constructing temples, respecting the purity of various trees and rivers, dressing like sannyasis, acting like acaryas, dressing like brahmacaris or grhasthas, closing one s eyes, respecting particular types of books, rules and regulations in eating, and respecting the purity of particular times and places. The examples of alocyagata are attributing personalism or impersonalism on the Supreme Lord, installing deities, exhibiting the mood of an incarnation of the Lord, speculating on heaven and hell, and describing the future destination of the soul. The different forms of these spiritual activities create divisions of sectarianism.

Differences that arise from places, times, languages, behaviors, foods, dresses, and natures of various communities are incorporated within people s spiritual practices and gradually make one community so completely different from another community that even the consideration that everyone is a human being may cease to exist. Due to these differences there is disagreement, cessation of social intercourse, and fighting, even up to the point of killing one another. When an asslike mentality becomes prominent within the kanistha-adhikaris, they certainly indulge in these things. But if they develop a swanlike mentality, then they do not take part in quarrels; rather, they endeavor to attain a higher level. Madhyama-adhikaris do not quarrel so much about external standards, but they are always attacked by philosophical disagreements. Sometimes they condemn the standards of neophytes and establish their own standards as superior. They condemn the neophytes deity worship in order to establish the worshipable Lord as formless. In such cases, they are also considered asslike people. Otherwise, if they had a swanlike mentality and a desire to attain a higher level, they would respect others practices and inquire about higher topics. Contradictions actually arise only due to asslike mentality. Swanlike persons consider the necessity for different practices according to one‘s qualification, so they are naturally detached from sectarian quarrels. In this regard, it should be understood that both asslike and swanlike people are found amongst the kanistha-adhikaris and madhyama-adhikaris. I do not expect that asslike people will accept this book with respect. If neophytes and madhyama-adhikaris become completely indifferent in regard to the contradictions found in various practices and try to advance further, then they become swanlike persons. Then they are our respectable and dear friends. Although swanlike personalities may accept a particular practice from birth or childhood according to instructions they have received, they nevertheless remain indifferent and nonsectarian.

The religious principles that will be explained and established in this book are very difficult to name. If these principles are given a particular sectarian name, then other sects will oppose them. Srimad Bhagavatam has therefore extablished sanatana-dharma as satvata-dharma, or religious principles related with the Absolute Truth. Another name for these religious principles is Vaisnava-dharma. Asslike Vaisnavas fall into the categories of Saktas (followers of Durga), Sauras (followers of the sun-god), Ganapatyas (followers of Ganesa), Saivites (followers of Siva), and Vaisnavas (followers of Visnu). But swanlike Vaisnavas are nonsectarian and, therefore, rare. These five types of above-mentioned spiritualists, as found in India, are named according to their respective qualifications. Human beings have two types of tendencies-arthic, or material, and paramarthic, or spiritual. Material tendencies include maintaining the body, constructing a house, marrying, begetting children, studying, earning wealth, material science, factory work, acquiring and maintaining assets, and accumulating piety. Although there are some similarities between the activities of human and animals, the material endeavors of humans are nevertheless superior to the natural tendencies of animals. If after executing their material activities human beings do not take shelter of their constitutional activities, then they are called two-legged animals. "

[ChiefCowpie]

"The constitutional activities of a pure soul are called sva-dharma, or one s prescribed activities. The sva-dharma of a living entity is prominently manifested in his pure state of existence. In one s pure state of existence this sva-dharma is present in the form of spiritual activities. All the above-mentioned material tendencies become succesful when dovetailed with spiritulal activities, otherwise they cannot independently help one attain the highest goal. From engagement in material activities up to the awakening of spiritual activities is called the preliminary stage of God consciousness. From this preliminary stage up to the uttama-adhikari stage there are innumerable levels. Inquiring about truth of the material world is called Sakta-dharma, because the predominating deity of the material world is goddess Durga.

All behavior and practice instructed in Sakta-dharma is helpful only in the preliminary stage. Such behavior and practice is meant to bring one closer to spiritual life, and materialistic people may be attracted by this only until they begin to inquire about the Supreme Absolute Truth. Sakta-dharma is the living entities initial spiritual endeavor, and it is extremely essential for people of that level. When the preliminary stage is further strengthened, one attains the next level. One then considers the energy of work and the superiority of heat over dull matter, and one therefore accepts the sun-god, who is the source of heat, as one s worshipable deity. At that time, Saura-dharma is awakened. Later, when one considers even heat as dull matter and animal consciousness as superior, one attains the third stage, Ganapatya-dharma. In the fourth gross stage, Lord Siva is worshiped as the pure consciousness of the living entities, and Saiva-dharma manifests. In the fifth stage, the consciousness of the living entity worships the supreme consciousness, and thus Vaisnava-dharma is manifest. By nature, there are five types of paramarthic dharmas, or spiritual duties, which have been known throughout the world by different names at different times. If one considers all the different dharmas that are current in India and abroad, one can see that they certainly fall within these five categories.

The religious principles taught by Mohammed and Jesus Christ are similar to the religious principles thaught by Vaisnava sects. Buddhism and Jainism are similar to Saiva-dharma. This is scientific consideration of truths regarding religious principles. Those who consider their own religious principles as real dharma and others religious principles as irreligion or subreligion are unable to ascertain the truth due to being influenced by prejudice. Actually religious principles followed by people in general are different only due to the different qualifications of the practitioners, but the constitutional religious principles of all living entities are one. It is not proper for swanlike persons to reject the religious principles that people in general follow according to their situation. Therefore, with due respect to the religious principles followed by people in general, we will now discuss the living entities constitutional religious principles.

Satvata-dharma, or nonsectarian Vaisnava-dharma, is the living entities constitutional, or eternal, religious principles. The Vaisnava principles that are found in the Mayavada-sampradaya are only indirect imitations of those principles. When such sectarian Vaisnava principles become transcendental, that is, when they are freed from impersonalism, then they become Satvata-dharma, or religious principles related with the Supreme Truth. The different sampradayas, namely dvaita (dualism) dvaitadvaita (simultaneous oneness and difference), suddhadvaita ( purified oneness), and visistadvaita (specific monism) that are found in satvata-dharma are nothing but wonderful varieties of sentiments within the Vaisnava science. Actually the various sampradayas are not the result of differences in the basic truth. Impersonalism is diametrically opposite to the science of bhakti. Those Vaisnavas who have accepted impersonalism are not pure Vaisnavas."

[gdkumar]

From Jaganatha Dasa :

"Sorry prabhu but why has this been brought up again, just as everyone was getting on so nicely?

If Prabhupada had lived another 30 years these things may have been sorted out. Or maybe not. But as Vaishnavas we should use our intelligence in carrying out the wishes of Sr Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

The Vaishnavas were around before my siksa guru and I'm sure continuing this feud would not have been his intention forever. He was not a resentful man. It is as ridiculous as ISKCON trying to copyright the Mahamantra!

The more branches of Caitanyas movement the better! All the world can then chant Hare Krishna! and return to Godhead.

Love and respect.

Haribol!"

Dear Jaganatha Dasa,

Dear brother, I feel indebted to you for this wonderful and timely post.
I respect your views. He is the blessed one who can clearly think. I touch your feet for your unbiased and all important view.

Thank you.

With love...........Kumar.

[ChiefCowpie]

Another Story of Ganesh

Sent by Asha Sridhar (ashas@mumbro.aptech.ac.in) http://members.tripod.com/~srinivasp/mythology/ganesh1.gifIt was Ganesh's birthday and he had been invited for dinner at a devotee's house. Ganesh had a very heavy meal and was returning home on his mouse, when a snake crossed their path. Seeing this, the mouse got very frightened and ran away, in the process felling Ganesh. Ganesh fell and his stomach, which was very full, burst open. Seeing this the moon burst out laughing. Ganesh felt very humiliated, so he killed the snake and tied it around his stomach. He then gave chase to the moon who ran for his life. The moon managed to evade Ganesh and hid in his palace. Ganesh soon came there and stood guard outside, telling the moon, "Where will you go now? You have to come out sooner or later and then I'll take my revenge".

It became very dark, as the moon refused to come out. This resulted in chaos on earth. The gods went and pled with Ganesh to free the moon. Ganesh finally relented and let the moon come out, but cursed him saying, " You hid in your house like a thief. Therefore, anybody who sees you on my birthday, will be implicated as a thief". This is the reason why we are not supposed to look at the moon on the auspices of Ganesh Chaturthi. This was also the reason why Shri Krishna was accused of stealing the Shymantaka gem. That however is another story altogether.

There are many stories about Lord Ganesh about his later part of life. We shall be adding more stories of Lord Ganesh in due course of time.

GANAPATI BAPPA MAURYA!!!

[gdkumar]

Dear all,

When do we turn to love Krishna ?
When do we turn to hark Krishna's flute?
When do we turn to see Krishna ?

The day is getting over soon, end is coming very fast. When would we stop wasting the precious time and look at Him ? How simply dear SvgGrdnBeauty said, "Krishna is inside all of us, so we are all good"! If Krishna accepts all of us then why do we waste time on useless silly arguements again and again?

To see Him we need light which is comprised of seven different colours (Vibgyor). Hark ! His flute! It is so blissful containing all seven notes, Do,Re,Me,Fa,So,La and Ti. With any colour or note missing it becomes useless.

When shall we become like those small babies who do not know their mothers' qualities but just love them, totally surrendered? When shall we realize our helplessness like a baby and surrender at His lotus feet?

We are not repairing(Mending) anything, we are causing more damage. We are confusing the freshers and beginners. We are scaring and disappointing them.

Beware of the pundits! Getting learned and getting enlightened are two widely different things. Please remember, "All that glitters is not gold - and all that glitters too much makes us blind."

With love and prayers........Kumar.

[gdkumar]

From SvgGrdnBeauty:

"Yes it indeed seams that we have finally broken away from the chains of arguments and for that I can smile. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Indeed I am wishing to that Yoga Lady would come back too...the thread can only get lighter.

Kumar, thank you for some lovely quotes...ChiefCowPie thank you for some lovely readings...

And now, since I am about to finish Bhagavad-Gita As It Is, I figure I can share something of what I've learned and something that jumped out a me the most, so I bookmarked it....

"One who works in devotion, who is a pure soul, and who controls his mind and senses, is dear to everyone, and everyone is dear to him. Though always working, such a man is never entangled."- Ch 5, Verse 7

I think that's some of the best advice and it sums up a lot of what the book is about. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Well, just thought I'd share. Have a great day all. And...

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
__________________ "


Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

That is another beautiful post from you. At times I wonder about you. You are reading the Gita for the first time, you are with the Krishna-form of God for a short period of time but I wonder looking at your progress and advancement.
I feel so happy that Krishna did not let me down when after reading your very first post I had formed some divine opinion about you.

You have very truly said about that verse 7,chapter 5. That is the summed up substance.

With love and prayers.......Kumar.

[gdkumar]

Dear ChiefCowPie,

What should I say for all your last few posts? Please accept my pranam.

Your writings brought tears in my eyes. That is the sole purpose of this thread. If this thread elevates even one person then the purpose is successful. All credit and sincere thanks go to Sleeping Jiva who started this thread and got all of us here.

I only hope and pray that everbody benefits from your writings which evoke only Bhakti and shows the Bhakti marg(Path for developing devotion).

With love and prayers.............Kumar.

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

Jaya!

Well said gd.

Hare Krishna!

[Jaganathadasa]

Govinda Jaya Jaya! Gopala Jaya Jaya!

:) :) :) :)

[gdkumar]

Govinda Jaya Jaya, Gopala Jaya Jaya.

Dear Jaganathadasa,

Thank you so very much.
I have never seen anything so beautiful. I feel like weeping and crying. How can we turn back from Him? May our 'little' Lord bless all of us.
With love............Kumar.

[sleeping jiva]

I'm sorry but that is reality. That is what Prabhupada said. Every compromise means trickery. Where there is ignorance there is disturbance. That's what he said. If you don't accept Srila Prabhupada you're nothing but bunch of crazies. He was a messanger of God, he was unfallible. If you're looking for a mistake in his life, you're foolish, cuz there's any. :) The thing is, he proved to be real, not by blabbering, but by his deeds. I can also say, yeah I'm a great devotee, I'm a messanger of God, but what does it mean really? Words, nothing but words.

Prabhupada said it very clearly: Do not compromise! That's how Bhagavadgita is explained by so many egotistical gurus. They do compromise in order to benefit materially and they adjust Krishna words. We should be in peace with people like that? What kind of peace is that? No, that's not peace. If you tolerate demons, you yourself become demon. And in demonic society there is no peace whatsoever.

This messanger of God himself came here to show us how to attain the spiritual platform. Why do you need to listen to other things? When it is so simple, why do you want to go more difficult way? This is not very inteligent. Indeed it is very proud to think: No, I don't want this simple way, I want the more sophisticated, because I'm more. I'm more than Krishna! I can explain myself. No -that's wrong.
haribol! hare krishna, jai prabhupad!

[Jaganathadasa]

Prabhu, Srila Prabhupada was a pure devotee. There are many in our movement that he created that are not sadly. Do you think he would be pleased? I don't. So if devotees feel that they have to go elsewhere to find their way back to the Supreme Being, then so be it. They are not the ones who should be brought to task over this but those who are bringing shame on our siksa gurus movement.

It is sad, but it is the reality. It is painful, but it is the reality. Hopefully one day things will not be so difficult.

In the mean time I for one will embrace all who read Prabhupada's books and are seeking their way back home, by means of chanting the sublime Holy Names of Sri Krishna, irrespective of which branch of Sri Caitanyas movement they belong to.

I also would not desert you for not feeling the same way as I do.


Srimad Bhagavatam
8.24.53
Matsya, the Lord' s Fish Incarnation
O Supreme Lord, for self-realization I surrender unto You, who are worshiped by the demigods as the supreme controller of
everything. By Your instructions, exposing life's purpose, kindly cut the knot from the core of my heart and let me know the destination of my life.


PURPORT


Sometimes it is argued that people do not know who is a
spiritual master and that finding a spiritual master from whom to get enlightenment in regard to the destination of life is very difficult. To answer all these questions, King Satyavrata shows us the way to accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the real spiritual master. The Supreme Lord has given full directions in Bhagavad-gita about how to deal with everything in this material
world and how to return home, back to Godhead. Therefore, one should not be misled by so-called gurus who are rascals and fools.
Rather, one should directly see the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the guru or instructor. It is difficult, however, to understand
Bhagavad-gita without the help of the guru. Therefore the guru appears in the parampara system. In Bhagavad-gita (4.34) the
Supreme Personality of Godhead recommends:

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah

"Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth."

Lord Krsna directly instructed Arjuna. Arjuna is therefore tattva-darsi or guru. Arjuna accepted the Supreme
Personality of Godhead (param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan). Similarly, following in the footsteps of Sri Arjuna, who is a personal devotee of the Lord, one should accept the supremacy of Lord Krsna, as supported by Vyasa, Devala, Asita, Narada and later by the acaryas Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Nimbarka and
Visnusvami and still later by the greatest acarya, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Where, then, is the difficulty in finding a guru? If one is sincere he can find the guru and learn everything. One
should take lessons from the guru and find out the goal of life. Maharaja Satyavrata, therefore, shows us the way of the mahajana. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. One should surrender to the
Supreme Personality of Godhead (dasavatara) and learn from Him about the spiritual world and the goal of life."


I will not be discussing these things anymore as it brings me to much pain.:(

Your friend always prabhu.:)

[gdkumar]

Dear Sleeping Jiva,

Please calm down and restrain yourself. Nobody is making any compromise here.
You are seeing snake in the rope. Please cool down. A vegeterian, a devotee, a believer and disciple-follower of Srila Prabhupada should not behave like that.
Even if somebody makes a mistake you should always give him chance and opportunity to rectify himself. That is Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's teaching.

You talk about war at all times, you even jeer at another devotee, you say Gandhi and Radhakrishnan killed Krishna..... Who taught all these ? Such words reflect only biased attitude.

You always talk about the Gita and remind us that Krishna advised to shake off all weakness and fight. But you forget that He never wanted a fight. All along it was the Kauravas who wanted to fight and He eventually reluctantly obliged them (As you desire so you get).

Whether it is veg or non-veg food ,offering only makes it a prasad and it gives you the spiritual benefit. Even meat,after offering, becomes a prasad. But because somebody eats meat you simply jeered at him. Proud of being a vegeterian? It all becomes useless if it fails to improve your qualities of mind.

After so much of reading you are afraid that somebody can tarnish Srila Prabhupada and Lord Sri Krishna! What should I say ? Ridiculous is not the word, it is just unfortunate.
Probably many a time you have read the Gita but I shall still request you to read it once again. A devotee does not perish. With Guru and God's grace he eventually comes into the realm of light of knowledge.

You are hurt, I am sorry. Please forgive me.

With love and prayers.........Kumar.

[ChiefCowpie]

I'm sorry but that is reality. That is what Prabhupada said.
and Prabhupada said other things where he spoke highly of his Godbrothers and Godsisters what to speak of the many loving exchanges that have been cited in this thread between them but you seem to remember the parts that seemingly give you license to speak disparingly of and commit offense against Prabhupada's Godbrothers and Godsisters

virodho vakyayor yatra napramayam tad isyate
yathaviruddhata ca syat tatharthah kalpyate tayoh


"When two scriptural statements contradict each other, one is not taken as inauthentic. One should give the meaning in such a way that the contradiction is removed." ( Laghu-bhag.http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif 1.212)

[ChiefCowpie]

Our Affectionate Guardians

Chapter Four:


Prabhupada's Instructions


http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/ssm_sp_devs.jpg

Shortly before he left us in 1977, Srila Prabhupada advised his disciples to see Srila Sridhara Maharaja if they had questions about philosophical matters. This instruction was accepted by the entire GBC at that time, and from 1977 to 1981 they did approach Srila Sridhara Maharaja with many important questions.

A substantial portion of the GBC Guru Position Paper http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gifof March 1978, the GBC's official statement published after their initial question-and-answer session with Srila Sridhara Maharaja, is taken directly from Srila Sridhara Maharaja's instructions to the GBC, with a few noteworthy additions and subtractions.

That it was actually the instruction of Srila Prabhupada that we should approach Srila Sridhara Maharaja for spiritual instruction is corroborated by taped statements of Jayapataka Maharaja, Satsvarupa Maharaja, Bhakti Caru Swami, Tamala Krsna Maharaja, and many other GBCs [some of whom later changed their minds regarding the validity of their previous statements], as well as by Tripurari Maharaja who was personally massaging Srila Prabhupada's lotus feet in the midst of several senior devotees when he heard this instruction from Srila Prabhupada. The instruction came in response to a question from Tamala Krsna Maharaja as to whom we could approach for advice after Srila Prabhupada's disappearance. Bhakti Caru Swami related to Srila Sridhara Maharaja on August 19, 1980:


Prabhupada gave us an instruction that if we have any difficulty then we should come to you, but they are deliberately neglecting that instruction of Srila Prabhupada.



In addition, official GBC recognition of this instruction of Srila Prabhupada was given in the GBC's March 1981 publication, "The Descending Process of Selecting a Spiritual Master." Giriraja Maharaja, in a letter of September 16, 1978 addressed to all GBC members, wrote:



According to Sridhara Swami, who Srila Prabhupada said we should consult about philosophy and practical points, there is relative and absolute considerationand we must give Sridhara Swami the highest regard. At one time, Srila Prabhupada said that apart from himself only Sridhara Swami was qualified to write the Bhagavatamhttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif purports. When we approached Srila Prabhupada before his departure about our writing books after his disappearance, Srila Prabhupada replied, "You can write when you are realized, but now none of you are realized."


So both in terms of relative rank and absolute realization, Sridhara Swami is far beyond any of us. Recently, I have heard statements to the effect that we have now surpassed Sridhara Swami and that we are in the position where we can improve upon Sridhara Swami's conception. In this connection, I am simply reminded of the words of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, svami na mane yei jana vesyara bhitare, tare kariye ganana,http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif that we must remain faithful to our Swami [otherwise we will be prostitutes]. (Cc . Antya-lila http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif7.115)


In regard to Srila Sridhara Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada's disciples said:



[Prabhupada said] If there was question we should approach you. (Jayapataka Maharaja, tape, March 1978)


We should go to his godbrother Sridhara Maharaja for guidance. So this talk of October 21, 1980 certainly showed the gbc doing this, and Srila Sridhara Maharaja fulfilling this role, as Prabhupada requested he do for the disciples of Srila Prabhupada. (Satsvarupa Maharaja, tape, December 22, 1980)


Srila Prabhupada's leading disciples also greatly appreciated Srila Sridhara Maharaja. A historic series of darsanashttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif during the Gaura Purnimahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif of 1981 were attended every day by many leading iskcon devotees, including Tamala Krsna Maharaja, Ramesvara Maharaja, Kirtanananda Maharaja, Giriraja Swami, Jayadvaita Swami, Bhakti Caru Swami, Atreya Risi Prabhu, and many other GBCs.



Our Guru Maharaja was kind upon us, so you are kind upon us. I find no difference at all in how you are blessing us. When I used to come every year to Mayapur, my whole purpose in coming was fulfilled when I would be in his association. So similarly, now I am feeling that as I have come here, that my purpose is being fulfilled, whenever I am in your association. (Tamala Krsna Maharaja, tape, February 26, 1981)


I take it that Prabhupada is speaking to us through you. (Ramesvara Swami, tape, March 5, 1981)


Additionally, other disciples stated:



Sridhara Maharaja's instructions are nondifferent than Prabhupada's. (Autobiography of a Jewish Yogi, http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gifAcyutananda dasa)


Prabhupada told me twice, "Everything I know, I learned from Sridhara Maharaja." (Hamsaduta dasa)

Maharaja, time will prove that they [ISKCON leaders] are wrong, and you are right. (Bhakti Caru Swami, tape, February 1982)


Srila Prabhupada himself spoke highly of Srila Sridhara Maharaja:



...who is the most highly competent of all my godbrothers. This is B. R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif guru . If you are serious about the advancement of your spiritual life, I advise you to go to Sridhara Maharaja and I will feel that you are safe.You can also make arrangements for your other godbrothers to go there in the future. (SP Ltr. Hrsikesa, January 1, 1969)


What Sripada Sridhara Maharaja has directed, I take it on my head.It is appropriate that I should accept his direction. (SP Ltr. Govinda Mj, 12-9-69)

What Govinda Maharaja has said is true. I consider his guru as my siksa guru . (SP, ISKCON Mayapur Candrodaya Mandira opening ceremony 1974)

Those who are intelligent, they are making something, Sridhara Maharaja and others. (SP Conversation, Allahabad, January 13, 1977) [1]

One of my important godbrothers [Sridhara Maharaja] says. He's sincere. He says, "The prediction of Caitanya-caritamrta, prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gifSo you have done it." (SP LA Morning Walk, December 11, 1973 & SP Ltr. Bon Maharaja, July 7, 1975) [2]

Our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gaudiya Matha I wanted to organize another organization making Sridhara Maharaja as the head. (SP Conversation, March 17, 1973) [3]


Over the years, various facts have mysteriously changed, according to the political climate. Statements included in this book are substantiated with hard copy and tape recordings. Understandably, one may change his opinion regarding certain things, but this does not change the essential facts, the actual truth, satyam param dhimahi .

[ChiefCowpie]

Letter to Rupanuga

Despite Srila Prabhupada's final and conclusive statements regarding Srila Sridhara Maharaja, some take Srila Prabhupada's letter to Rupanuga in 1974 as the conclusive statement about Srila Sridhara Maharaja. An excerpt of the letter follows:



My dear Rupanuga Maharaja,



Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter of April 17, from Washington D.C. and I have very carefully noted the contents.

You are right about Sridhara Maharaja's genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service. I do not wish to discuss about activities of my godbrothers but it is a fact they have no life for preaching work. All are satisfied with a place for residence in the name of a temple, they engage disciples to get foodstuff by transcendental devices and eat and sleep. They have no idea or brain how to broadcast the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. My Guru Maharaja used to lament many times for this reason and he thought if one man at least had understood the principle of preaching then his mission would achieve success. In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja, he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acaryahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif of the Gaudiya Matha. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead, unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya . http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gifIf Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acaryahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya . http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gifHis idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was that a self-effulgent acaryahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif would be automatically selected from amongst the successful members of the GBC. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acaryahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acaryahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif even though they may be kanistha-adhikarihttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif with no ability to preach. In some of the camps, the acaryahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif is being changed three times a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually amongst my godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya .http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif So it is better not to mix with my godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially [names three sannyasihttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif godbrothers] but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.



When there is a conflict between opposing statements, they must be reconciled. Rupa Goswami has written:





virodho vakyayor yatra napramayam tad isyate

yathaviruddhata ca syat tatharthah kalpyate tayoh




"When two scriptural statements contradict each other, one is not taken as inauthentic. One should give the meaning in such a way that the contradiction is removed." ( Laghu-bhag.http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif 1.212)





The previously mentioned personal instruction of Srila Prabhupada to approach Srila Sridhara Maharaja for philosophy was given three years after the Rupanuga letter was written. This letter of Srila Prabhupada must be harmonized with the other statements by Srila Prabhupada in order to get an accurate picture of Srila Prabhupada's feelings about Srila Sridhara Maharaja. When seen in the light of proper historical perspective, the circumstantial nature of these remarks can be realized because the subsequent friendly and intimate dealings between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhara Maharaja did not change in the slightest even after Srila Prabhupada made such remarks. Further, Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhara Maharaja lived together harmonously during the majority of the problems of the Gaudiya Matha mentioned in the Rupanuga letter, [4] and subsequent to this Srila Prabhupada requested Srila Sridhara Maharaja to be the president of ISKCON:





Our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gaudiya Matha, I wanted to organize another organization, making Sridhara Maharaja the head. (March 1973) [5]





Unfortunately, taking the Rupanuga letter out of its true historical context, a handful of leaders have attempted to utilize it in order to discredit the deep and intimate relationship between Srila Sridhara Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada. Some of these leaders are fully aware of this deep relationship. Neither have we seen the letter written to Srila Prabhupada that elicited this response. A careful study of Prabhupada's many letters shows that quite often his letters are direct responses to particular circumstances and may even contradict other instructions in different situations.



According to Srila Sridhara Maharaja, a GBC was formed by the trustees of the Gaudiya Matha ten days after the disappearance of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, although it did not remain intact for long. Membership of the GBC was declined by Srila Sridhara Maharaja. The GBC elected an acaryahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif and Srila Sridhara Maharaja helped advise the GBC when requested by them.

[ChiefCowpie]

The War Is Over

In spite of Srila Prabhupada's sometimes strong criticism of his godbrothers, he also wrote positively about them:



Even amongst our godbrothers we have misunderstanding, but none of us is astray from the service of Krsna. My Guru Maharaja ordered us to execute his mission combinedly. Unfortunately, we are now separated. But none of us have stopped preaching Krsna consciousness. Even there was misunderstanding amongst the godbrothers of my Guru Maharaja, none of them deviated from the transcendental loving service of Krsna. (SP Ltr. Brahmananda, November 18, 1967)



The disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami are all godbrothers, and although there are some differences of opinion and we are not acting conjointly, every one of us is spreading this Krsna consciousness movement according to his capacity and producing many disciples to spread it all over the world. ( Bhag. 4.28.31)

So far as your question about controversy amongst the disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja, that is a fact. But this controversy is not material. Just like in a national program, different political parties are sometimes in conflict and make propaganda against each other, but their central point is always service to the country. Similarly, amongst the disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati there may be some controversy, but the central point is how to preach the mission of His Divine Grace. (SP Ltr. Mandali Bhadra, July 28, 1969)



The above letter to Brahmananda was written early on, subsequent to which there were many problems with Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers. The above purport, however, was written quite a bit later.



Srila Prabhupada also said, "The war is over now," and he created the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust for developing Gauda-mandala-bhumi and encouraging better relations and cooperation between ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers. Specifically, Srila Prabhupada instructed that this trust construct a kirtanahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif hall at Srila Sridhara Maharaja's Matha and also one at the birthplace of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Yoga-pitha. [6]

When we examine the activities of these two Vaisnavas, we see the real intentions of these pure devotees of the Lord, fully absorbed in devotional service. One must examine all the facts impartially, not just make a superficial estimation based on one letter and general statements and pass a decree for all time. The mistakes made by the leaders of ISKCON were much more grave than the alleged mistakes of Srila Sridhara Maharaja [supporting an acaryahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif who later fell down]. Within ISKCON the many mistakes of the leaders have been whitewashed, whereas Srila Sridhara Maharaja to this day is maligned. In light of an unbiased look at Srila Prabhupada's letters, conversations, and other instructions, it can be concluded that Srila Prabhupada did not discourage his disciples from receiving instruction (siksahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif) from Srila Sridhara Maharaja; on the contrary, he encouraged it. Similarly, an unbiased look at the siksahttp://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/affection/graphics/dot_clear.gif of Srila Sridhara Maharaja will show that his advice was perfect. When told of Srila Prabhupada's criticism of himself in the Rupanuga letter, Srila Sridhara Maharaja replied with a chuckle, "Just see the preaching of Swami Maharaja, he has not even spared me, his intimate friend!"

[gdkumar]

From Jaganathadasa:

"Prabhu, Srila Prabhupada was a pure devotee. There are many in our movement that he created that are not sadly. Do you think he would be pleased? I don't. So if devotees feel that they have to go elsewhere to find their way back to the Supreme Being, then so be it. They are not the ones who should be brought to task over this but those who are bringing shame on our siksa gurus movement.

It is sad, but it is the reality. It is painful, but it is the reality. Hopefully one day things will not be so difficult.

In the mean time I for one will embrace all who read Prabhupada's books and are seeking their way back home, by means of chanting the sublime Holy Names of Sri Krishna, irrespective of which branch of Sri Caitanyas movement they belong to.

I also would not desert you for not feeling the same way as I do.


Srimad Bhagavatam
8.24.53
Matsya, the Lord' s Fish Incarnation
O Supreme Lord, for self-realization I surrender unto You, who are worshiped by the demigods as the supreme controller of
everything. By Your instructions, exposing life's purpose, kindly cut the knot from the core of my heart and let me know the destination of my life.


PURPORT


Sometimes it is argued that people do not know who is a
spiritual master and that finding a spiritual master from whom to get enlightenment in regard to the destination of life is very difficult. To answer all these questions, King Satyavrata shows us the way to accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the real spiritual master. The Supreme Lord has given full directions in Bhagavad-gita about how to deal with everything in this material
world and how to return home, back to Godhead. Therefore, one should not be misled by so-called gurus who are rascals and fools.
Rather, one should directly see the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the guru or instructor. It is difficult, however, to understand
Bhagavad-gita without the help of the guru. Therefore the guru appears in the parampara system. In Bhagavad-gita (4.34) the
Supreme Personality of Godhead recommends:

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah

"Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth."

Lord Krsna directly instructed Arjuna. Arjuna is therefore tattva-darsi or guru. Arjuna accepted the Supreme
Personality of Godhead (param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan). Similarly, following in the footsteps of Sri Arjuna, who is a personal devotee of the Lord, one should accept the supremacy of Lord Krsna, as supported by Vyasa, Devala, Asita, Narada and later by the acaryas Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Nimbarka and
Visnusvami and still later by the greatest acarya, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Where, then, is the difficulty in finding a guru? If one is sincere he can find the guru and learn everything. One
should take lessons from the guru and find out the goal of life. Maharaja Satyavrata, therefore, shows us the way of the mahajana. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. One should surrender to the
Supreme Personality of Godhead (dasavatara) and learn from Him about the spiritual world and the goal of life."


I will not be discussing these things anymore as it brings me to much pain.http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/sad.gif

Your friend always prabhu."http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif


Dear Jaganathadasa,

Dear brother, please do not leave us. We all need 'shikhsa' and I am sure you are the one who, by mild and gentle reprimanding, can correct our deviation.

Please do not leave us, we need you. Please keep showing us the light of the truth as you always compassionately do.

"Sarva Devamaya Guruh". I am your student and disciple, please do not leave us.

With love and pranam..........Kumar.

[Jaganathadasa]

Dear Kumar prabhu,


You are too kind to me, no I must stay and take such wonderful nectarine association with everyone here. Your gentleness, the wonderful posts of ChiefCowpie, SvgGrdnBeauty's humble inquisitiveness, Rama Nityananda dasa's love of Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai (KI JAY!) and Sleeping Jiva's passionate and glorious devotion to Srila Prabhupada (KI JAY!), is the greatest association that any seeker of self-realisation and Krishna Consciousness could immerse themselves in.

tato duhsangam utsrjya
satsu sajjeta buddhiman
santa evasya chindanti
mano-vyasangam uktibhih

"An intelligent person should therefore reject all bad association and instead take up the association of saintly devotees, whose words cut off the excessive attachment of one’s mind."

Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.26.26):


Haribol!!

[gdkumar]

"Jaya Govinda! Jaya Gopala!"

Dear Prabhu Jaganathadasa,

Thank you for your so kind post.

I feel gratified and blessed. I feel I am liberated from all the pains and worries.
Let your radiance of compassion and love take all of us beyond all ignorance.

With love and pranam........Kumar.

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

sangat sanjayate kamah

One's desires and ambitions
develop from the company he keeps.
:)

[gdkumar]

Very truly said prabhu.

With love.......Kumar.

[sleeping jiva]

gdkumar: no way. Please excuse me, but now I see that you've never read Srila Prabhupada's books. At first, Ghandi killed Krishna, that I didn't say myself, it is a quote from Prabhupada himself. This is not very serious, but when you're saying that even non-veg food can become prasad this is huge misinterpretation and although I'm enjoying everyone's posts, it is very revealing for me to learn that nobody bothered to explain it to you so far. And almost everybody already posted, so they had the opportunity. That is ignorance. Meat-slaughter is a huge crime against Krishna. But well, against all nature. Of course, I can't hate you, or anybody else for this ignorance, I'm very compassionate (and yet I feel ashamed to speak thus about myself) in this matter. It's very easy to become a vegetarian. Meat-eating is not necesssary and you save lot of pain and torture, and in fact you save our nature. If you like this beauty, if you're aware that this is in fact our mother, then you'll be a grateful son.

Please read this verse and also all Bhagavadgita As It Is(please!) at http://www.asitis.com (http://www.asitis.com/).





Chapter 9. The Most Confidential Knowledge

TEXT 26

patram puspam phalam toyam
yo me bhaktya prayacchati
tad aham bhakty-upahrtam
asnami prayatatmanah

SYNONYMS

patram--a leaf; puspam--a flower; phalam--a fruit; toyam--water; yah--whoever; me--unto Me; bhaktya--with devotion; prayacchati--offers; tat--that; aham--I; bhakti-upahrtam--offered in devotion; asnami--accept; prayata-atmanah--of one in pure consciousness.

TRANSLATION

If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.

PURPORT

Here Lord Krsna, having established that He is the only enjoyer, the primeval Lord, and the real object of all sacrificial offerings, reveals what types of sacrifices He desires to be offered. If one wishes to engage in devotional service to the Supreme in order to be purified and reach the goal of life--the transcendental loving service of God--then he should find out what the Lord desires of him. One who loves Krsna will give Him whatever He wants, and he avoids offering anything which is undesirable or unasked for. Thus, meat, fish and eggs should not be offered to Krsna. If He desired such things as offerings, He would have said so. Instead He clearly requests that a leaf, fruit, flowers and water be given to Him, and He says of this offering, "I will accept it." Therefore, we should understand that He will not accept meat, fish and eggs. Vegetables, grains, fruits, milk and water are the proper foods for human beings and are prescribed by Lord Krsna Himself. Whatever else we eat cannot be offered to Him, since He will not accept it. Thus we cannot be acting on the level of loving devotion if we offer such foods.
In the Third Chapter, verse thirteen, Sri Krsna explains that only the remains of sacrifice are purified and fit for consumption by those who are seeking advancement in life and release from the clutches of the material entanglement. Those who do not make an offering of their food, He says in the same verse, are said to be eating only sin. In other words, their every mouthful is simply deepening their involvement in the complexities of material nature. But preparing nice, simple vegetable dishes, offering them before the picture or Deity of Lord Krsna and bowing down and praying for Him to accept such a humble offering, enable one to advance steadily in life, to purify the body, and to create fine brain tissues which will lead to clear thinking. Above all, the offering should be made with an attitude of love. Krsna has no need of food, since He already possesses everything that be, yet He will accept the offering of one who desires to please Him in that way. The important element, in preparation, in serving and in offering, is to act with love for Krsna.
The impersonalist philosophers, who wish to maintain that the Absolute Truth is without senses, cannot comprehend this verse of Bhagavad-gita. To them, it is either a metaphor or proof of the mundane character of Krsna, the speaker of the Gita. But, in actuality, Krsna, the Supreme Godhead, has senses, and it is stated that His senses are interchangeable; in other words, one sense can perform the function of any other. This is what it means to say that Krsna is absolute. Lacking senses, He could hardly be considered full in all opulences. In the Seventh Chapter, Krsna has explained that He impregnates the living entities into material nature. This is done by His looking upon material nature. And so in this instance, Krsna's hearing the devotee's words of love in offering foodstuffs is wholly identical with His eating and actually tasting. This point should be emphasized: because of His absolute position, His hearing is wholly identical with His eating and tasting. Only the devotee, who accepts Krsna as He describes Himself, without interpretation, can understand that the Supreme Absolute Truth can eat food and enjoy it.

[sleeping jiva]

Chief Cow Pie: This stuff around Prabhupada's Godbrothers is clear and your propaganda is cheap showing your desperation when you need to post an article, which has been already defeated by Prabhupada's own quotes. If you need more, just tell me I got plenty of arguments how to prove it, but don't ask me the same questions just for the sake of your propaganda. I can understand that there are many branches of Vaishnavism, but as soon as someone makes very serioius offences against Srila Prabhupada I have no mercy. This is clear for inteigent man, what's going on. The lazy, envious gurus want to attract Prabhupada's disciples. Prabhupada said to send them his apology, when he was dying but it was only in terms of politeness. Why are you exploiting this great mercy of Srila Prabhupada? You don't know anything about him, about his teachings, you prove that every your post. You don't read his books and you say: "Hey, check this out -this is what Prabhupada said!!". For when man distorts truth, I shall continue in war. The goodness attained by this false peace is nothing but pure evil, which will unfold soon.

[sleeping jiva]

Jaganathadasa: I see that you are a sincere soul. You're saying you're friend even though you seem offended. That is very nice. Well, sure I admire everyone, who chants the Holy Names. I think it is ok. I just wanted to protect Prabhupada's message. I'm not saying that I'm the only one in truth, no. I'm trying to quote Prabhupada as much as it is possible in order to cease being so egotistic. If you feel offended by Prabhupada, well, you should read his books(even several times), then you'll understand. I'm not from Isckon, I don't care for organization's names as soon as they follow Krishna's instruction(and Prabhupada's), we know that in Isckon the fallen gurus turned it into completely different organization than it was during Prabhupada, but there's no reason to forget everything what Prabhupada said.

[sleeping jiva]

evam prasanna-manaso
bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah
bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam
mukta-sangasya jayate


So the Absolute Truth is scientific knowledge. It is not sentiment--"I accept somebody as God by votes." That is not bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam. One must know what is the definition of God. It is not that somebody comes forward with a long beard and says, "I am God," and we rascals accept him as God. No, not like that. It is vijnanam. Vijnana means science. Without scientific knowledge, one cannot understand what is God. Bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam. And who can understand this vijnana, this scientific knowledge? Mukta-sangasya. One who is liberated from the contamination of the three modes of material nature, he can understand.

Those who are contaminated with tamo-guna, rajo-guna, they can create their own God. There are different types of "God" also. In one sense everyone is God. God means the controller. So everyone is to some extent a controller. But as I have explained several times, real controller means who is not controlled by others. That is God. If I am controlled by the material nature, daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya... Birth, death, old age and disease, if I am controlled by these conditions of nature, then how I can become God? God is never controlled. Therefore one who can understand God must be free from the contamination of this material nature. Mukta-sangasya.

This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita:



brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param


When one has realized Brahman, prasannatma, prasannatma, brahma-bhutah prasannatma... Here also it is said, evam prasanna-manasah. The same thing you will find everywhere. There cannot be any contradiction. Prasanna-manasa and prasannatma, the same thing. So how one can become prasannatma or prasanna-manasa? That is described here. Bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah. Evam prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah. If you accept bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, devotional service to the Lord, you shall be prasanna-manasa. You shall be always feeling jolly. If I am not jolly, if I am not prasanna-manasa, that means maya has attacked me. A bhagavad-bhakta shall never be aprasanna, not joyful. Always joyful. If he is actually in contact with Krishna, how he can become morose? No. If he is morose, if he is unhappy, that means maya has attacked him. This is the test.

Therefore Rupa Gosvami says, utsaha. We shall be always enthusiastic. But we cannot become enthusiastic artificially. There must be bhagavad-bhakti-yoga. Just like these visitors in the temple, see how much enthusiastic they are. They are rising early in the morning, going to take bath in the Yamuna, and they are visiting so many temples, especially this Damodara temple, because it is Damodara month. And from five o'clock or before that, three o'clock, they are enthusiastic. They are not sleeping very nicely. That means lack of bhagavad-bhakti-yoga. It is maya. So you must be very careful. Test. If we cannot rise early in the morning, that means we are under the clutches of maya. This is the test.

Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore says,



jiv jago jiv jago gauracanda bole
kota nidra jao maya-pisacira kole


Sleeping is very dangerous. It is to be understood that I am under the clutches of maya, the more we sleep, because the symptom of tamo-guna is laziness and sleep. This is the symptom of tamo-guna, laziness and sleeping. And symptoms of rajo-guna--very active, but just like monkey. Monkeys are very active, but all injurious. Wherever they will sit, they "Gata-gata-gat-gat-gat." Not a single moment they are inactive, but all foolishness. That is passion. And goodness means knowledge. So in the previous verse it is described how to come to the platform of goodness. When one comes to the platform of goodness, then he becomes prasanna-manasa, because he is not attacked by the modes of ignorance and passion, means laziness, sleep and foolishly active. Foolishly active is more dangerous than less active. Because if one is dangerous, it is better not to become very much active, because... Just like this monkey. You will find always very active, but nobody likes them. As soon as a monkey comes, everyone drives them away: "Get out! Get out! Get out!"

Therefore we should not be lazy and sleepy, at the same time not foolishly active. We must come to the real standard of life, goodness. Then we can begin our devotional service. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita:



brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param


After being brahma-bhuta, after understanding clearly aham brahmasmi, one can take to transcendental loving service of the Lord, not before. Before, if we take bhakti-yoga... Of course, we shall become gradually brahma-bhuta also... Bhakti-yoga is so nice that it does not depend on any condition. Ahaituky apratihata. Apratihata means not under any condition. You can begin, in whichever position you are, you can begin immediately. You can begin hearing about Krsna from any point. Sravanam kirtanam. It doesn't matter. And if you follow strictly the bhagavad-bhakti-yoga process, then automatically you are situated above goodness. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate.

Anyone who has taken seriously devotional service... Vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogah prayojitah, janayaty asu vairagyam. Liberation means knowledge and detachment. Knowledge, full knowledge means that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, and my bodily activities are not congenial for my ultimate goal of life. I must engage myself in spiritual activity." This is called jnana and vairagya. When one knows that he is not body, then why should he work hard day and night for maintaining this body? That is knowledge. And karmis, they are trying to maintain this body. Sometimes karmis also take to bhakti-yoga. Not bhakti-yoga, so-called bhakti. But their aim is how to maintain this body nicely. That is also accepted. Akamah sarva-kamo va moksa-kama udara-dhih. Because if you take to bhakti-yoga even for maintaining this body nicely, that is also very nice, because gradually, due to the influence of bhakti-yoga, you will come to the platform of mukta, mukta-sanga. Bhakti-yoga is so strong.

Therefore sastra recommends that either you are karmi, either you are jnani, either you are yogi, you take to devotional service. Your all desires will be fulfilled. That is the injunction.



akamah sarva-kamo va
moksa-kama udara-dhih
tivrena bhakti-yogena
yajeta purusam param


This is the recommendation. It is all-inclusive. If you have got desire like the karmis or the jnanis or the yogis, you take to bhakti-yoga. Bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah. You will become prasanna-manasa. You will be engladdened. You will come to the platform of joyfulness. Anandamayo 'bhyasat. Spiritual life means anandamaya. There is no displeasure. Always ananda. That is spiritual life. Spiritual life means ananda, and material life means anxiety. You can distinguish. If you are always put into anxiety, that is material life. And if you are always jolly, that is spiritual life. Anandamayo 'bhyasat.

So here it is, the same thing. Because one has taken to bhakti-yoga, he must be prasanna manasa, very joyful. If you are full of anxiety, how you can understand the science of God? That is not possible. So evam prasanna manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah. By execution of bhakti-yoga you come to the platform of transcendental bliss, prasanna-manasa. Transcendental, spiritual life means eternal, blissful life of knowledge. That is spiritual platform. And material life means temporary life of miserable condition. Temporary life of miserable condition. That is material life. And spiritual life means eternal, blissful life of knowledge. This life is temporary, but when we are transferred to our spiritual life that is eternal. Sac-cid-ananda-vigraha.

[sleeping jiva]

We are also part and parcel of sac-cid-ananda-vigraha. Vigraha means form. Sac-cid-ananda does not mean impersonal. That is foolishness, another foolishness. Ananda cannot be impersonal. You can make experiment. Suppose if you are put into a big room without any man coming there, so you cannot feel very comfortable for long time. You will feel lonely. You shall try to come out. Just like we have got experience. Everyone has got experience, when we rise very high in the sky, but we cannot remain in that condition more than, utmost, eight to ten hours. Then we become very restless. Although it is very high in the sky, but we cannot remain in that way. Therefore sastra says,



...aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah
patanty adho 'nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah


One who does not take shelter of the lotus feet of Krsna, he may rise up very high by austerity and penance, but he cannot remain in that position. He may give up artificially this material world, jagan mithya, but he has to come down again to this mithya jagat and open schools and hospitals, because he cannot remain in that impersonal way. That is the experience. All so-called brahmavadi, they say that "We have become liberated" but not liberated. That is simply concoction, vimukta-maninah. They think like that. Actually they are not liberated. Avisuddha-buddhayah. Without being liberated, when one speaks that "I have become liberated," that means avisuddha-buddhayah: the intelligence is not clear. He does not know what is liberation. Liberation means prasanna-manasa, full of joyfulness, that is liberation. Evam prasanna-manasah, bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam. Tattva means truth. You have to understand Bhagavan in truth.

So that, to understand in truth, that is a science. That is not sentiment. Vijnana. In another place Krsna says, to advise Brahma, catuh-sloki-bhagavata, jnanam... In the Bhagavad-gita also. Jnanam sa-vijnanam. Jnanam me parama-guhyam yad vijnana-samanvitam. The jnanam me parama-guhyam, the knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very, very confidential. Jnanam me parama-guhyam yad vijnana-samanvitam. It is not sentiment. It is full of scientific knowledge. So when we understand the truth, the Absolute Truth, scientifically, that is called bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam. That bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam is understandable by a person who is liberated. One who is very busy, anxious with politics, sociology, humanitarianism, one who is very busy always in politics, how he can become interested or how he can understand bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam? That is not possible.

Therefore these are the tests to understand. A politician may pose himself that he is very advanced in spiritual life, but when we see that he is more interested in politics than in Krsna, then we can understand what is his position. These are the tests. Or politics or sociology or anything, a pure devotee is always interested how Krsna would be satisfied. Just like Arjuna. Of course, when one is interested in that way, all other things, subordinate things, they come within. Just like Arjuna was a great devotee of Krsna, but at the same time he was a politician also. So, but the first interest is to become Krsnized, how to satisfy Krsna, not that "For political purpose I love Krsna." No. You love Krsna, and your all problems, political, social and other things, will be solved. This is Krsna consciousness. You don't require to attempt for political reason and make Krsna consciousness secondary. Therefore we say that if people, not all, if some percentage of the whole population of the world become Krsna conscious, then all the problems of the world will be solved. We don't expect that cent percent people will be Krsna conscious, but simply a few percent, say five per cent. If the people of the whole population, they become Krsna conscious, then the face of the world will change--isavasyam idam sarvam--because if the leaders, they understand Krsna consciousness and act accordingly, the others will follow. Yad yad acarati sresthas tat tad evetaro janah. Itarah janah, common men, follows the leaders.

So evam prasanna-manasah. How to become happy mood of life, that is described here. Bhagavat-bhakti-yogatah. One has to take to Krsna consciousness. And mukta-sangasya, bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam mukta-sangasya jayate. Nobody can understand Krsna unless he is liberated from the influence of the modes of material nature. You can read the purport.

Pradyumna: "In the Bhagavad-gita (7.3) it is said that out of many thousands of ordinary men, one fortunate man endeavors for perfection in life. Mostly they are conducted by the modes of passion and ignorance, and thus they are engaged always in lust, desire, hankerings, ignorance and sleep. Out of many such manlike animals, there is actually a man who knows the responsibility of human life and thus tries to make life..."

Prabhupada: So human being in the modes of ignorance and passion, they are animals. They are not considered as human being. They are animals. Rajas-tamo-bhavah, kama-lobhadayas ca ye. So actually a person is considered to be human being when he comes to the platform of goodness or he acquires the quality of a bona fide brahmana. Then he is considered as human being. Go on.

Pradyumna: "...and thus tries to make life perfect by following the prescribe duties. And out of such many thousands of persons who have thus attained success in human life, one may know scientifically about the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna."

Prabhupada: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye. Because we are coming from animal by the evolutionary process... According to sastra, it is said that... The Darwin's theory says from monkey. That is also fact, that after monkey the living entity comes to the human form. Somebody says after lion. Somebody says after cow. So from the animals, we, the human form is developed. So unless that human body also reformed, so he remains animal. That reformation required, samskara, reformation, enlightenment, cultural life. That cultural life culminates when one actually becomes a brahmana, Vaisnava. That is real cultural life. Not by birth but by cultivation of knowledge, education, advancement, spiritual knowledge, one comes to the platform of brahmana.

So manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye. This is the platform of siddhi. But nobody is interested to become a brahmana, qualified. Everyone wants to become a sudra. Kalau sudrah sambhavah. Especially in this age nobody is interested. Just like we are asking people to take to Krsna consciousness and give up the habit of illicit sex life and intoxication and gambling and meat-eating, and people laugh, that "What is this? This is the life. If we give up these things..." Especially in the Western countries, they think it is denying the primary necessities of life. They say. Some of my students, they left our association because they could not follow these principles. They are complaining that "Prabhupada is denying the primary necessities of life." Therefore it is said, manusyanam sahasresu. It is very difficult to give up these four bad habits. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye. But this is the path of perfection. But they are not interested in perfection. They want to rot as hogs and dogs in this world. That is their purpose. And therefore Krsna says, manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye. Nobody is interested to become brahmana. They are interested to become dogs and hogs. That is their interest.

[sleeping jiva]

Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye. And yatatam api siddhanam. It is not that coming to the platform of a qualified brahmana, one can understand Krsna. That is also not. Still, you have to go farther. Brahma-bhuta. Brahma janati iti brahmanah. Brahmana can understand Brahman. He can understand that he is also part and parcel of Brahman. But that understanding is not sufficient. He has to go further, to become a Vaisnava, to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, as person. Vaisnava means to understand the Absolute Truth as person, not imperson. In the brahmana state, even they understand Brahman, that is impersonal view. But one has to go far above. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate. One has to make progress from the Brahman platform to Paramatma platform, then to the Personality of Godhead understanding. Therefore Krsna says, yatatam api siddhanam. Somebody is trying to come to the platform of brahma-bhuta stage. That is called siddha state. But yatatam api siddhanam kascid vetti mam tattvatah. So they also cannot understand Krsna. Krsna can be understood only by this process, bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah.



evam prasanna-manaso
bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah
bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam
mukta-sangasya jayate


One has to become liberated from the brahminical stage also. Then he can understand Krsna.

So Krsna understanding is not so easy. It is very difficult. Krsna says. But by the grace of Krsna, because He wanted to distribute Himself, Caitanya Mahaprabhu is giving us Krsna freely... Krsna-prema-pradaya te. Rupa Gosvami says that namo maha-vadanyaya. Krsna was also not so liberal. He simply asked us, "Surrender," but He did not distribute Himself. But in the form of Caitanya Mahaprabhu He distributed Himself: "Take Me, take Me, take Me. Without any price, take Me." This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is Krsna, and He has come in the form of Caitanya, Krsna Caitanya, to distribute Himself. Therefore He is recognized, namo maha-vadanyaya, "the most munificent." No other incarnation, even Ramacandra or Bhagavan Krsna, they were not so liberal. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu is so liberal. Papi tapi jata chilo hari-name uddharilo. They distributed Himself through the chanting of Hare Krsna mantra.

So these Krsna consciousness movement, the Westerners, they are understanding Krsna. It is very, very difficult subject matter. But because we are trying to understand Krsna through Caitanya Mahaprabhu, therefore it has become easy. Otherwise it is very difficult subject. Otherwise Krsna Himself said, manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati sidd... It will take... But as we are fallen, Krsna is also as much liberal also, this age. So if we still, you do not take advantage, then how much unfortunate we are, we can consider.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end) [Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.20 Vrndavana, October 31, 1972]

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[sleeping jiva]

you can listen to the previous lecture here: you need Real Player though:

http://www.krishna.org/RealAudio/2000/07/72_034_A.ram

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Wow...couldn't work my computer yesterday night (I was at the beach during the day...) and all this! I seriously have no clue what's going on...but I must say it gives off rather bad vibes to me...I have no clue what to comment either except that the times when we are positive, get along, talking about the maha mantra, and surrendering to Krishna's lotus feet are much more enjoyable than controversy and quipping back at forth at eachother over minor details. Don't flame me please...I know I'm new to this thing and I'm learning and you all are much further along on this thing than I am...I know that I do not full understand all of the book that I just finished nor will I any time soon...but I do know that blissfully praising Krishna's name always puts a smile on my face whether it is I, gdkumar, Sleeping Jiva, Jaganathadasa, CheifCowPie, or any one else around her...or it is from the source of Gurus, like Srilla Prabhupada and others who we admire....that is what is great about this thread...

That's really all I've got to say...oh and also thank you Jaganathadasa for that picture of baby Krishna...everytime I see them I just want to take Him home with me or give Him a hug...he's soo cute!

[gdkumar]

Dear Sleeping Jiva,

You again missed out the idea of so many earlier posts. Whatever you believe is alright but do not be disrespectful to others. Other than the HK movement there are so many other means and ways of reaching Him. Because you believe in HK please do not say all others and other practices are wrong.


Every group has its own rules and its Guru's guidance. Whatever Guru thinks best for His children He says that. But He never says disrespect the others. It is better that with our little learning we do not try to judge and understand Guru's deeds. For His children, which are all seedlings, He makes so many fences of dos and donts, just to protect them. Please do not go by that and do not think the other Gurus and groups are all wrong.


I did not ask you to eat meat and humiliate you and all others who are vegetarians. Only point was to say that for heaven's sake please do not look down upon and loathe meat-eaters. No body knows for keeping this life with bare minimum food what He has in store for us. During testing times one does not get any food to eat, under extreme hunger he goes for making bread with grass-paste. And when destiny goes for tougher tests, cats come and pick them up. He does not get to eat even grass-bread.After this what happens, there are incredible true stories.


Thanks for bringing Chapter 9, sloka -26. But how did you forget to mention sloka-27,28 and 29 ? Anyway, you do not need to mention them here but please read and try to understand. And there is hope for you and all of us. Please also read slokas 30 and 31.

May I again request you to read the Gita again to remove all your doubts. May I suggest that before reading you be the Arjun facing this Sansar Struggle and think that Krishna is directly advising you.

And yes, I have not read Prabhupada. I have not been to any Krishna temple(Except for one time), I have not been to any Church. However, I would only request you that do justice to all your reading on Srila Prabhupad and try to achieve the qualities that He would expect from you.

I have not read Srila Prabhupad but you failed to see that He is already deep inside me in my heart. Because, even without reading Him I could unconditionally love Him because the only thing I knew about Him was He loved Krishna and Krishna alone.

I am terribly upset because of you. Why is this darkness? Why can not you be little more tolerant? Devotee of Krishna, if you love Him why do you give Him this pain?

I give up dear brother. I do not leave you, I give up these arguements. It appears that after understanding everything you do not want to understand.

With love and prayers...........Kumar.

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

Jaya Nitai-Gauranga!

re. offering meat etc

For those unable to meet the standards of purification required of other Vedic processes, Lord Siva gave the Tantric sastra. The Tantra is categorized as the right and left aspects. The right aspect provides regulations for purification for those engaged in meat eating, intoxication etc...

While all these instructions are provided in the Vedas, they are not put forth as the best path for self-realization. Rather, the Vedas instruct that one must surrender in devotion to complete loving service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and his eternal consort, Sri Sri Radha-Krsna.
Further reading on this subject can be read in the Krishna book Chapter 87 which is found here http://www.krsnabook.com/ch87.html


For people new to Krishna Consciousness all paths and faiths are one. May your sincerity bring you to the Absolute in whatever way you choose. If anything of what we have rubs off on you then please explore more, their is so much beauty in Srila Prabhupadas writing.

Or simply chant

jaya sri-krishna-chaitanya
prabhu nityananda
sri-adwaita gadadhara
shrivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrinda


(I offer my respectful obeisances unto Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Lord Nityananda, Sri Advaita,
Gadadhara Pandit, Srivas Thakur, and all the devotees of Lord Caitanya.)

then

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare


Krsna will not leave anybody in the cold who approaches him in this way.

Haribol!http://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

Sleeping Jiva.

This is not very serious, but when you're saying that even non-veg food can become prasad this is huge misinterpretation and although I'm enjoying everyone's posts, it is very revealing for me to learn that nobody bothered to explain it to you so far.

The art of preaching to people not familiar with our ways is ....gently, with great patience and love. Thank you for posting Chapter 9, but it should surely be posted with love not with any other purpose in mind.

Thank you for starting this great thread my friend. Hare Krishna.:)

SvgGdnBeauty

I know I'm new to this thing and I'm learning and you all are much further along on this thing than I amNot so mataji. One who is in the beginning is often much closer to God than those who have been practicing for numerous lifetimes!!:) Hare Krishna

[sleeping jiva]

gdkumar: hahahahaha. I'm laughing, not in mocking way, but in a good way and I want you to laugh with me. Words -abstract terms in a way. I wrote it in my post: I can't hate you. I know why I wrote it there. I never said that I'm more than you, or that all meat-eaters are doomed. Please try to understand, my only task here is to fix the misinterpretations. I don't put myself in here. I don't care too much for affections if they're not Krishna related. Of course I can't help and I add something personal (like now for example), but you can see from my previous posts, that the main thing is to talk about Krishna, not my own person, how good I am or whatever. I don't care if somebody says I'm hot headed, stuborn, or even bad person just because I'm trying to fix these misinterpretations. I'm learning as well as you, but I'm learning from your questions. Because the answers they're all there in Prabhupada's books. Everything is there. There's nothing left. I'm tolerant to other paths sure, but when somebody mix meat-eating with Prabhupada's message, I'm sorry I cannot be tolerant. Please don't see things as good or bad, that is maya. I know you love Krishna and you are attracted to Him and yes I admit that you must be a special person, when you didn't read Prabhupada's books and still love Krishna. But, man read them anyhow :)
It's easy to say -you're the one intolerant, but I just made this thread in order to discuss Krishna consciousness as it was popularized by Srila Prabhupada. If you come here and you say:" no, no this I don't agree with...you can't think in this way." Who's the intolerant here? I'm not feeling any hatred, I'm asking you as a friend. In maya you see two different things : friend and the question, which is as though from enemy, but beyond maya the two are the same.
Haribol!!!! Chant Hare Krishna and I'll love you all.

[sleeping jiva]

Rama Nityananda dasa: you're definetely right. it was posted with love, is there anything in my post, what says the opposite? I love al lthose animals, which must be killed becuz of people's ignorance. I have no hatred in me, I said it was revealing, but now I see that you also reacted, so it was good to say :)
In our society, sometimes love means just to smile even though you don't mean it. That kind of love is hypocritical.

[ChiefCowpie]

http://www.salagram.net/Jayananda-n-SP.jpg
Jayananda dasa Thakur with his Spiritual Master Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

[ChiefCowpie]

http://home.iprimus.com.au/naractl/prabhupada.gif


Jayananda Dasa - A Modern Saint
Written by Bhayahari Dasa
From Back to Godhead Magazine. May/June 2001.





http://home.iprimus.com.au/naractl/Krishna1.gif http://home.iprimus.com.au/naractl/Biographys/Jayananda.jpg


0N JANUARY 16,1967, Srila Prabhupada flew from New York to inaugurate the first Hare Krsna temple in San Francisco. His arrival was covered by the Channel Four news and by both daily newspapers. While most of San Francisco may have ignored the story, a young man named Jim Kohr noticed it. Despite having a degree in mechanical engineering from Ohio State University, he had been driving a taxi on the streets of San Francisco. Never quite able to fit into the corporate rat-race or the upperclass crowd, he was often unhappy and didn't really know why. Though Jim was not a religious person, the article ignited a ray of hope in him. He resolved to check out the Indian Swami.

Unknowingly, Jim was taking his first step toward fulfilling his destiny. Though he would live for only another ten years, in that short time he would witness the culmination of lifetimes of spiritual effort. He would depart the world leaving behind many valuable lessons to inspire and instruct present and future generations of Vaisnavas, devotees of the Lord.

The following evening, Jim arrived at the temple to find it filled mostly with hippies. With his short hair, cleancut looks, and well-pressed clothes, he stood out. And at 28, he was older than most of the others there. But Jim's misgivings disappeared when he saw the Swami enter. Jim sat through the lecture and bought a three-volume set of Srimad-Bhagavatam, which Srila Prabhupada autographed with the inscription "To Sriman Jim Kolr." For the first time in many years Jim felt peaceful. He had just received the audience of his eternal spiritual master.

Jim started coming to the temple regularly. He especially liked the morning program, when most of the hippies were still sleeping. Sometimes he would be the only person in the class. Years later he revealed that he trusted the Swami and felt confident the Swami wouldn't cheat him. As a four-year old, Jim had once stood up in church and looked around anxiously. When his grandmother had asked him what was the matter, he had asked, "Where is God" Now he felt that Srila Prabhupada was answering this ancient question buried deep in his consciousness. In February 1967, Prabhupada accepted Jim as his disciple and initiated him with the name Jayananda Dasa.

In Vaisnava scriptures, such as Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura's Madhurya-kadambini, we learn that a conditioned soul progresses through stages of sadhana-bhakti (devotional practice) before attaining spontaneous love for God. The new bhaktas (devotees) at the San Francisco temple would often struggle with their material desires and their daily spiritual practices, falling in and out of Krsna consciousness. Surprisingly, no one remembers Jayananda in the role of a "new bhakta". He took to Krsna consciousness naturally and effortlessly. He relished all aspects of Krsna consciousness-chanting on his beads, singing in kirtana, eating prasadam, performing Deity worship, and so on. He would often remark, 'Krsna consciousness is so sweet".

In fact, Jayananda found Krsna consciousness so sweet that he soon lost the taste for anything else. He gave his life savings to Srila Prabhupada, and in the Preface to The Nectar of Devotion, Prabhupada publicly thanked him: "I beg to acknowledge, with thanks, the contribution made by my beloved disciple Sriman Jayananda Brahmacari."

PAY1NG THE BILLS

Jayananda became absorbed in practical devotional service. He was constantly serving the Lord, whether buying supplies, cooking prasadam, cleaning the kitchen, taking out the trash, or teaching new devotees. He did all this after a full day of cab driving, by which he'd pay the temple's bills. He became an expert in anything needed to spread Krsna consciousness. He went out to sell Prabhupada's Teachings of Lord Caitanya, becoming a pioneer in a service dear to Prabhupada's heart - the public distribution of hardbound books on Krsna consciousness.

On the appearance day of Lord Caitanya, Srila Prabhupada was very pleased to see Jayananda spontaneously performing kirtana on the street outside the temple. Encouraged, Jayananda then started singing regularly on busier streets with other devotees, laying the foundation for chanting parties that would soon travel all over the country.

Both devotees and others were instinctively attracted by Jayananda's purity. Once, when he offered a garland to Srila Prabhupada, he apologized for his greasy clothes.
Srila Prabhupada remarked, "There is absolutely no offence. You [my disciples] may be dirty, but your hearts are pure."

Jayananda touched the hearts of many people, and they usually responded by doing some service for Kr5na. He would get almost everything for the temple free or at a steep discount. He was friends with shopkeepers, city officials, drunks, and derelicts. Everybody loved Jayananda, and he happily engaged everyone in the service of the Lord. He worked the hardest, but he praised the service of everyone else. He was humble, tolerant, compassionate, and renounced. His actions, his words, his life, and his death all exemplified the process of bhakti, devotional service to the Lord.

Srila Prabhupada's instructions especially those encouraging practical service --became Jayananda's very life. Once, when a devotee asked him how to make advancement in Krsna consciousness, Jayananda shrugged and said, "I really don't know. I'm too busy working."

So immersed was Jayananda in executing Prabhupada's instructions that he would rarely get time to meet Srila Prabhupada. Serving in separation, he understood that association through instructions is more important than physical association. It is said that one must act in such a way that Krsna will want to see you; Jayananda exemplified this dictum by his service attitude.

Invariably Srila Prabhupada would ask for Jayananda, and someone would have to go fetch him. For Jayananda, Sri Krsna and Srila Prabhupada were the only two ultimate truths. Everything else, including his body, was to be engaged in their service.

[ChiefCowpie]

LAUNCHING RATHAYATRA

One day some devotees got a small deity of Lord Jagannatha (Krsna as "the Lord of the universe") from an import store. Srila Prabhupada sent them back to get the other deities of the set-Lord Balarama and Subhadra Devi--and he started their worship in the temple. Meditating on the deities, Srila Prabhupada expressed his intense desire to spread their mercy by organizing a Rathayatra, the chariot festival held in their honour each year in the holy city of Puri in India. Jayananda dedicated himself to fulfilling this desire of Prabhupada's. Starting with a flatbed truck, he put together a "chariot" with whatever help he could get from devotees and anyone else. On July 9, 1967, the first Rathayatra in San Francisco-the first ever outside India-took place because of Jayananda's blood, sweat, and toil.

Jayananda improved the festival year after year, raising money, getting permits, doing the publicity, building huge chariots from scratch, and even baking pies for groups he'd interact with, such as the city police and the U.S. Park Service. He would live with the chariots while they were being built, often working with little or no sleep as the festival date approached. Eventually held in Golden Gate Park, the festival drew bigger and bigger crowds year after year. Thanks to Jayananda's efforts, thousands of people received Lord Jagannatha's mercy. The festivals are now held in cities around the world.

Srila Prabhupada often expressed his deep gratitude to Jayananda for the festivals. When Jayananda passed away, Srila Prabhupada said that his picture should be carried on one of the chariots at every Rathayatra.

DISEASED BODY

While preparing for the New York Rathayatra in 1976, Jayananda found painful lumps growing on his body. A God brother worried that they might be cancerous, but Jayananda made him promise not to tell Srila Prabhupada until after the festival. Jayananda's main concern was that the Rathayatra should be a success; everything else was secondary.

The New York Rathayatra was indeed a great success. Rolling down Fifth Avenue, the three chariots delighted thousands of people, many becoming inspired to inquire into and even take up the practices of Krsna consciousness. Srila Prabhupada was ecstatic. He called it a grand success and thanked Jayananda for his service.

The lumps on Jayananda's body turned out to be cancerous. He was diagnosed with leukaemia, which gradually reduced his body to a shell. Accepting that he would die soon, Jayananda continued to express his deep gratitude towards Srila Prabhupada. His friends were, shocked and saddened to see his disease-ravaged body, but Jayananda was still too busy, performing devotional service to give it much concern. Ane, when he did agree to medical treatment. he used his time in the hospital to tell doctors, nurses, and patients about Krsna consciousness.

Jayananda constantly thought about how to expand Rathayatra to other cities. In his final months, he helped organize the Los Angeles Rathayatra, making phone calls, raising money, and guiding devotees. One day, while walking on Venice Beach, here the festival would be held, he looked down and-as if visualizing the upcoming festival-said, "What a wonderful Rathayatra!"

On May 1, 1977, just a few months before the festival, Jayananda passed from this world. In a letter written to Jayananda after his passing, Srila Prabhupada congratulated him on a glorious life and an even more glorious death, since both in life and at death he had been absorbed in the service of Krsna. Prabhupada ordained that the disappearance day of Jayananda be celebrated like those of other Vaisnava saints. As Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura so eloquently said:

He reasons ill who says that
Vaisnavas die
When thou art living still in sound!
The Vaisnavas die to live, and
living try
To spread the holy name around.


As I think about Jayananda, I imagine this scene: Somewhere an ISKCON Rathayatra is about to start. Conch shell blasts and cries of "Jaya Jagannatha!" pierce the sky. Looking on from the spiritual world, Jayananda turns to Srila Prabhupada, who nods and says, "Thank you very much".

[ChiefCowpie]

Memorial by Bhakta dasa

Dear Maharaja & Prabhus,

Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glory to Srila Prabhupada! All glory to Sripad Jayananda dasa, a pure and perfect disciple of Srila Prabhupada!

It was my great fortune to work closely with Jayananda on many occasions between 1971 and 1977. From our first meeting in a beaten- up pick up truck, driving across the SF Bay Bridge to prepare a park for the "Lord Caitanya Festival" being held that day, until our final meeting a few weeks before he departed in a "Laetrile Cancer Clinic" in Tijuana, Mexico he was always a source of incredible inspiration and determination for me.

At our final meeting, he was living in a two room apartment at the cancer clinic. He had turned what was supposed to be the bedroom into a temple, and was staying in the laundry room on the floor. He had decorated his "temple" with hundreds of photos of Srila Prabhupad and Lord Jagannatha and was peacefully chanting HARE KRISHNA as much as 108 rounds per day. Although his formerly robust body had become like a tooth pick, his consciousness was not the least disturbed. He was fearless, even happy that his prison term in the modes of nature was coming to an end.

He told me stories of the various treatments had undergone at the behest of different devotees over the last 6 or 7 months. Some of the treatments were rather absurd, like wearing bags of dripping herbal teas on your back, etc. As he related these tales, we laughed, and laughed, and laughed. We laughed so hard our sides were aching, but we could not stop laughing. Actually we were laughing, because everyone in this world took "death" so seriously, but we, fortunate souls we were, knew that death was also only an illusion.

Jayananda knew within himself that he was leaving, he knew his time was up, still to please the devotees, he made the attempts to prolong his life.

The one quality of Jayananda that stood out, above and beyond all his other exalted qualities was his extreme dedication to the service of the devotees. Not just the high and mighty, but especially the newest bhakta or bhaktin. He would invariably make sure they ate well, and were guided properly in the process of bhakti.

In 1974 when he returned from his one pilgrimage to India, he had brought a new "lal imli" chadder and a beautiful new silk dhoti and kurta. He gave all these away to a couple of new bhaktas,preferring to wear his old tattered dhotis.

Jayananda remained constantly engaged in service day in and day out without cessation. I never saw him engage in unnecessary sense gratification once, but for the service of KRSNA he would sometimes drink a cup of coffee when on a long drive, and once he even purchased beer to give a young man who was helping build the Rath carts, but who needed his beer each evening to function!

Jayananda was loved by all. He epitomized the verse from the Goswamiastakam "loved by the gentle and the ruffians". Jayananda was never envious of anyone, he always offered sincere respect to all living beings. He adored prasadam and made sure to carry some cakes or sweets with him everywhere he went to distribute to all.

Jayananda hated to be the center of attention; he always pushed others ahead of himself. Jayananda loved kirtan and could chant and dance for hours very happily. He could also sit down and chant 50 rounds if necessary without getting up. Jayananda loved KRSNA leela, and when he read the Krsna Book he would feel incredible happiness and would giggle like a young child. I felt so sad that I did not have such a sweet taste.

A few years ago while in front of the Gundica Mandir in Puri, early in the morning, I sat of Lord Jagannatha's Rath while Lord Jagannatha was inside the Gundica Temple. My mind was looking at the chariot and was remembering Jayananda, and how beautiful the chariots he made were. I could understand at that time that Jayananda was probably building chariots right there in Puri for lifetimes, and then he took birth in the west to become Srila Prabhupada's assistant in bringing this most wonderful of all festivals to all the conditioned souls in the world.

Now, His Grace Vaiyasaki dasa has written a wonderful book detailing the leela of Jayananda Prabhu, and as soon as he can find some funding it will be published. Then I know that all of you who read about Jayananda will fell the same joy, inspiration, and determination that I feel when I remember him.

Bhakta dasa

[ChiefCowpie]

Memorial by Srila Dasa

Jayananda was one of the only devotees I know that no matter how insignificant you were, Jayananda would recognize you, greet you and treat you as if you were his personal friend. As it states in Bg, *suhrdam sarva-bhutanam.* Jayananda was the living example of a humble, unassuming Vaisnava who took advantage of every opportunity he could to serve other Vaisnavas.

In his last days in NY (at the 55th St Temple) in 1977 before going to LA, I witnessed this *lila*: One devotee had come back hungry from sankirtan, and when he saw Jayananda sitting down about to take a plate of maha-prasadam, he asked Jayananda if there was anymore prasadam. Without hesitating, Jayananda offered the devotee his own plate of maha-prasadam (very hard to get in NY at that time) and insisted he take it. Jayananda always performed selfless service to the Vaisnavas and to his beloved Gurudeva, Srila Prabhupada.

[ChiefCowpie]

Sriman Jayananda Thakur, Bhakti Exemplified

The process of remembering, discussing or enumerating the qualities and pastimes of the Lord and His devotees is very purifying. This week we continue the discussion of the qualities of Jayananda Prabhu, who in the relatively short time he was associated with Krishna consciousness, perfected his devotional service and left us many instructions by example.

Freedom from fault finding
**************************
Perhaps the most defining characteristic of Jayananda was that he never criticized anyone. Even if a devotee did something that warranted criticism, he would usually not say anything, or else make the mistake appear as something perfectly natural. He never spoke harsh words or chastised anybody. Sometimes devotees would come to him with expansive ideas of how to spread Krishna consciousness. Jayananda would encourage these ideas, however extraordinary. At the same time he was not a fool. He could always pick up the right man for the job.

In the Nectar of Instruction (Verse 5), Srila Rupa Goswami says, 'one should associate with and faithfully serve that pure devotee who is advanced in undeviated devotional service and whose heart is completely devoid of the propensity to criticize others.' Jayananda could not even bear to hear the criticism of another devotee. If such a thing were happening he would simply leave the room. These are the characteristics of an uttama-adhikari, one who has reached the highest level of perfection in his sadhana bhakti.

Dear to everyone
****************
Like the six Goswamis, Jayananda was dear to both the gentle and the ruffians. He was as much at home with the Italians at the produce market as he was with the Brahmacharis at the temple. Once a devotee was approached by a staggering drunk in San Francisco, who looked at his robes and asked, 'Hey, where is my old friend Jayananda?'

Many devotees who took over Jayananda's old territory would meet people who would say things like, 'Where is Johnny Ananda?' or 'That man - he's the nicest and most pure man I've met' or 'I don't know much about your philosophy, but if Jayananda is into it, it must be all right.'

One woman public official on the San Francisco board was famous for giving the devotees a hard time during Ratha-yatra. One year when the devotees approached her, she asked, 'where is Jayananda?' On hearing that he had passed away she broke down and began to cry. The purity in Jayananda's heart would touch the even most cynical.

In BG 5.7, Sri Krishna says that 'One who works in devotion, who is a pure soul, and who controls his mind and senses is dear to everyone, and everyone is dear to him. Though always working, such a man is never entangled.' Every one loved Jayananda, since he had completely transcended the bodily conception. He would approach a drunk, a hippie or a devotee with the same compassion and enthusiasm. He spoke to the Supersoul in everyone, and everyone responded accordingly. Like Maharaja Yudhisthira, Jayananda's enemy was never born.

Expert at engaging everyone
****************************
It is said that though Krishna has nothing to do with non-devotees, His devotees are even more compassionate than Him and will try and engage them in the Lord's service. Jayananda was eager to see everyone engaged in Krishna's service. Whenever a new bhakta would come. Jayananda made him feel he was engaged in important work. He was older, bigger and stronger than just about anyone in the temple, and everyone was glad to be working under him.

His preaching style was very simple and direct. He would speak from the heart to the heart. Once he was preaching to a couple of hippies, while crawled under an automobile. All that was visible of him was a pair of legs, yet the two hippies stood there, transfixed by his message. During Ratha-yatra time he would organize a crew of cynics, hippies, bloopers, uncooperative personalities and non-devotees off the street to help build the carts. He would get them to work for ten to fourteen hours a day, always glorifying them.

The Cc Antya 7.11 it is stated, 'The fundamental religious system in the Age of Kali is the chanting of the holy name of Krishna. Unless empowered by Krishna, one cannot propagate the sankirtana movement.' Because of the genuine compassion in Jayananda, Krishna gave Him the unique ability to make people want to render devotional service, directly or indirectly.

Materially renounced
********************
Jayananda had almost no possessions, even during his years as a householder. What ever he had, he used for the service of the temple and Srila Prabhupada. When he was gifted five thousand dollars, he promptly donated that to Srila Prabhupada. In the introduction of the Nectar of Devotion, Srila Prabhupada acknowledges this contribution. For many years he was almost single handedly supporting the temple by driving his cab for 12-14 hours a day. When he was in his last days of his life, he used the money given to him for his treatment to support the Ratha-yatra in Los Angeles.

He was extremely careful with what he considered to be Srila Prabhupada's money. When selling incense, he would sleep on park benches in bitter cold rather than spend money on a motel. He used his considerable charm to get people to donate almost every thing that was needed. What he could no get for free, he made sure that he received a good value for the money spent.

His final lesson in material detachment came when it was discovered that he was suffering from cancer of the lymph and blood. Jayananda continued as if nothing had changed. When his body became frail and weak, he continued preaching, inspiring and organizing from his bed in the hospital. For him the body was simply a means to render devotional service to the Lord.

In Cc. Madhya 6.254 Caitanya Mahaprabhu summarizes in the phrase 'vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga', which means 'renunciation through the wisdom that comes from practicing devotional service.' Jayananda was a true sannyasi, as one who did not just renounce material objects but actually renounced the desire for these material objects. He was always eager to use everything for the service of Krishna, however he had no personal desire for anything material.

[ChiefCowpie]

Jayananda: king of the Ratha-yatra
***********************************
Jayananda was the backbone of the Bay area Ratha-yatra for several years. Behind the scene he would do everything for the preparation of the festival. He would beg food, flowers, funds - buy materials and build the carts. He would arrange for the permits, organize the cooking and serving of prasad. Although things always went right down the wire, he would consistently succeed in fulfilling all this plans every year. After the festival he would cook a cake or a pie for each and every person who had some how helped in the festival. Because of his efforts the Bay area devotees to this day enjoy an amazingly harmonious relationship with the city officials.

In his last days Jayananda was busy organizing the Ratha-yatra from the hospital bed. He would talk to people on the phone, send his associates to meet various persons and things began to miraculously materialize. Every moment of his life was preciously used in the service of Krishna.

Mystic opulence
*****************
It is said that pure devotional service brings about much opulence. Thought the devotees never seek them out, once they are there, they are used for the service of Krishna.

Jayananda apparently could function with very little or even no sleep. Towards the last few days of the Ratha-yatra he would sleep less than three hours a day, yet he was the most energetic and enlivened member of the crew. His propensity to consume prasad was astounding. He could consume buckets of halva, plates of samosas and potatoes without any side effect. When he was in his last days, he was put on an intravenous diet, yet he would often ask devotees to sneak in huge quantities of samosas and cheese-potatoes for him, which he would happily consume without any apparent distress. He would some times sleep in the Bhagavatam classes, since he was very tired, yet later on he could perfectly quote from the class or have a deep discussion about its contents.

In BG 4.26, Sri Krishna declares that, 'One who is engaged in full devotional service, unfailing in all circumstances, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman.' In the Närada-pancaratra, devotional service to the Lord is likened unto a queen attended by her maidservants in the form of material opulences, liberation and mysticism. Jayananda never had any hankering for these, but when they came, he simply used them in the service of Krishna.

Special relationship with Srila Prabhupada
******************************************
Jayananda has complete faith in Srila Prabhupada. He perfected his devotion by making the instructions of Srila Prabhupada the very core of his life. He was advanced enough to realize that real association was through following the instructions of the spiritual master. Unlike most of the other devotees, who would go out of their way to get some personal association of Srila Prabhupada, Jayananda was contend to work in the background, carrying out his instructions. He exemplified the superiority of association by vani (instructions) over vapu (personal association). Srila Prabhupada would invariably call of Jayananda when he was in the temple. Jayananda would resist saying, 'No, I cannot go. I am too dirty. I am too fallen,' such were the transcendental exchanges between the spiritual master and his dear disciple.

In Cc. Madhya 19.151, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that, 'Among all the living entities wandering throughout the universe, one who is most fortunate comes in contact with a representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and thus gets the opportunity to execute devotional service.' Jayananda was one of these fortunate souls who came in contact with a pure devotee of the Lord and under his guidance was able to perfect his devotional life.

Conclusion
**********
Jayananda passed away on May 1, 1977. He joined the Krishna consciousness movement in 1967, just when it is in its beginning, and left the planet a few months before Srila Prabhupada. In the scriptures it is said that when the pure devotees of the Lord appear to execute His will, their associates invariably accompany them. One cannot help but speculate that Jayananda had only come to serve his eternal spiritual master. The fact that Srila Prabhupada was on this planet at the time of his passing away is also significant. It let Srila Prabhupada affirm that 'every one should follow the example of Jayananda.' We offer our most humble obeisances to Sri Srimad Jayananda Prabhu, the exemplary teacher of devotional service in Krishna consciousness.

[sleeping jiva]

Thank you, ChiefCowPie
for this great article. I never heard of this wonderful guy. Now you made me know him, thanks. I have no doubt it was Srila Prabhupada accompany in this world. Wow! Reading the articles you've posted it felt as though I knew him. I especially like the passage, when he's joking about his death -we should all be like that. Y'know laughing out loud, because that is the first thing you do, when you're free from bodily attachments. Once more, thanks ChiefCowPie, I like when you post articles like this one. Carry on! Haribol!




He told me stories of the various treatments had undergone at the behest of different devotees over the last 6 or 7 months. Some of the treatments were rather absurd, like wearing bags of dripping herbal teas on your back, etc. As he related these tales, we laughed, and laughed, and laughed. We laughed so hard our sides were aching, but we could not stop laughing. Actually we were laughing, because everyone in this world took "death" so seriously, but we, fortunate souls we were, knew that death was also only an illusion.

[Rama Nityananda dasa]

Thank you so much for posting that prabhu, he was a wonderful devotee.

Here is another Jayanandas god-brother Tribhuvanatha who left his body a couple of years ago.


http://www.iskcon.org.uk/news/2000/june/gf3_t.jpg (http://www.iskcon.org.uk/news/2000/june/glastonbury_festival.html)Tribhuvanatha Dasa

"The light that burns twice as bright..."

Tribhuvanatha Prabhu left his body early on Tuesday 16th October 2001. Earlier in the year, he had been diagnosed with stomach cancer while on a preaching tour of Africa, and had made several trips to Brazil for treatment from a Christian healer.

Tribhuvanatha was in Brazil with his close friend and associate Giridhari, who was chanting Hare Krishna at his moment of his leaving.

Tribhuvanatha had arranged to sponsor a feast at Bhaktivedanta Manor on the day of his dearture in memory of a devotee friend in Africa. By an ironic arrangement of Krishna, this turned out to be his own departure feast also.

Devotees everywhere have been very moved to hear of his passing, and have been glorifying him as a great and special soul with a very bright future.

Tribhuvanath's funeral was held at Bhaktivedanta Manor and Hendon Cematorium on Saturday 27th October. Around 700 devotees, friends and family participated in his last rites, glorifying, honouring and remembering this most energetic, friendly and austere devotee of Krishna. The next morning, there was a festival of rememberance, with many anecdotes told of Tribhuvanatha's extraordinary life.

Tribhuvanatha is an early disciple of Srila Prabhupada from Bury Place days, and is famed for his exhuberant kirtana. A past president of the Govindadwipa (http://www.iskcon.org.uk/govindadwipa/index.html) and Birmingham (http://www.iskcon.org.uk/birmingham/) temples, he was a very active preacher in this world, and lead a festival party travelling throughout the UK, Ireland and Africa.

We hope Krishna will be kind upon this special soul so he may long continue the glorification of the Lord in his uniquely special and individual way.

Riddha remembers Tribhuvanatha

Riddha Dasa is one of Tribuvanatha's close godbrothers. In an interview he spoke of Tribhuvanatha's less-well-known preaching.

"Tribhuvanatha was a pioneer of preaching in the Middle East. He told me just a few weeks before he left of how Srila Prabhupada explained Krishna's special mercy received by one who preaches in Arab countries.

In the 1970s, Tribhuvanatha and some of his godbrothers such as Mahakratu and Padmapani risked their lives preaching in numerous Arab countries such as Lebanon and Syria. They survived heavy bombardment during the Yom Kippur war. Then, due to the mercy of Tribhuvanatha, the first arabic Bhagavad-Gita was produced in Palestine.

At that time, because the devotees were so successful in their daily activities, they came under the watchful eyes of the PLO, who mistook them for Israeli spies. Tribhuvanatha was wrongly arrested in Damascus and imprisoned in a terrorist cell, with only enough room to lie down. He was tortured and interrogated for one month, finally being released without charge.

Back in the UK, Tribhuvanatha quietly recovered from his ordeal, being less outwardly active in temple life. Several years later, in 1984, I met Tribhuvanatha on a London street; rekindling our friendship, I took him straight to the Soho Radha-Krishna temple, where his great devotion for Krishna began expanding again.

Tribhuvanatha went on to become one of the most dynamic and best-loved devotees in the UK and Irish yatras, famous for his qualities throughout the Hare Krishna world."

More remembrances of Tribhuvanatha (http://www.iskcon.org.uk/devotees/tribhuvanatha-remember.html)

http://www.iskcon.org.uk/devotees/tribhuvanatha/


May we all become half the devotees that these two great jivas were. Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

[ChiefCowpie]

Thank you, ChiefCowPie
for this great article. I never heard of this wonderful guy. Now you made me know him, thanks. I have no doubt it was Srila Prabhupada accompany in this world. Wow! Reading the articles you've posted it felt as though I knew him. I especially like the passage, when he's joking about his death -we should all be like that. Y'know laughing out loud, because that is the first thing you do, when you're free from bodily attachments. Once more, thanks ChiefCowPie, I like when you post articles like this one. Carry on! Haribol!thank you prabhu for your appreciations...in your strict devotion to understand the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, ask a little guidance in prayer to Jayananda, a very special soul who understood intimately and profoundly SP's message of love and devotion to Krishna and so water and nurture your creeper of devotion

Remembering Jayananda Prabhu
(compiled by Kala-kantha das)


http://gauranga.org/images/jayananda_01.jpg


After the disappearance of Jayananda Das on May 1, 1977, His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada instructed devotees all over the world to commemorate the event every year as they would any great Vaishnava's disappearance day.

Jayananda's Beginnings In Krishna Consciousness
Jayananda was the all-American boy. Handsome, strong, intelligent, born in a more than middle-class family, Jayananda (Jim Kohr) took a degree in mechanical engineering from Ohio State University. With a background like that, it is surprising that Jayananda ended up as a cab driver in San Francisco. Karandhara once asked him why he didn't get a better-paying job. "I didn't fit in with the upper class crowd," he said.

Always introspective in nature, Jayananda felt empty and unsatisfied within himself during his college years. He would often say that he was "never happy" before joining Krishna consciousness. His depression was almost suicidal when, in 1967, he read a small article in a San Francisco paper, about an Indian Swami who had come to the Bay Area to propagate the chanting of the names of God. Jayananda recalled feeling a "ray of hope" when he read that article. Thinking the Swami may have something to offer, Jayananda made up his mind to attend the Swami's lectures.

Srila Prabhupada's early lectures in the Bay Area were mostly attended by hippies, and Jayananda was one of the only "straight" people there. Jayananda later recalled that, "I wasn't much of a religionist, but I was attracted to Srila Prabhupada." He was especially fond of attending the early morning lectures because at that hour, most of the hippies would be in bed. On some occasions Jayananda would be the only guest listening to Srila Prabhupada speak from the Bhagavatam.

Srila Prabhupada was always fond of Jayananda, and sometimes he would invite his budding disciple to take prasad with him in his room. "Srila Prabhupada would cook prasad and serve me," Jayananda recalled. "He didn't say anything - he just kept feeding me, and I kept eating." Jayananda soon donated his life savings of $5,000 to Srila Prabhupada to help His Divine Grace print the Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. As more and more devotees joined ISKCON in the Bay Area, Jayananda continued to work as a cab driver and supported the Temple by contributing all of his earnings.



Jayananda's Attraction For The Process Of Krishna Consciousness





Chandan Acharya Prabhu remembers this special feature about Jayananda: "He was completely enamored by Krishna consciousness. Even when he'd go out on incense runs all by himself, he would rise every morning before four, have a little mangal-artik, chant all his rounds, read and cook prasad. He never deviated. He loved it. He was completely happy as long as he was practicing Krishna consciousness."

Take prasadam, for example. Jayananda worshiped prasadam. When a little prasad spilled on the floor, he would always bend down on all fours and lick it up. He loved to cook, offer, distribute and eat prasad in a big way. He would always take prasad with him and distribute it, whether he was making a bhoga run (buying bulk foods from the market) or taking a chanting party downtown. He would even say "prasadam" in a special way that made you immediately want to take some.

Jayananda knew how to attract people to Krishna consciousness with the prasadam weapon. When a new devotee came, for example, Jayananda would see to it that he was sumptuously fed with prasadam. When Jambavan Das was just becoming a devotee, Jayananda would bring him a plate of prasadam so big that he thought he could never eat it all. When he finally did finish the plate, Jayananda immediately put an identical plate down before him. "I can't eat that," said Jambavan. "Srila Prabhupada said that we should eat 'til we waddle like a duck," said Jayananda. Jambavan would finish the second plate.

Of course, Jayananda himself could be found honoring large quantities of prasad anytime day or night. He was the kind of devotee who would come up to you at ten o'clock with some peanut butter halava and say, "Hey, Prabhu, come here - check this out!"

Another example of his attachment to Krishna consciousness is Jayananda's love for kirtan (chanting). Jayananda was always eager to take the whole Temple out on hari-nama chanting parties. He had a special attraction for chanting in the streets. Whether kirtan was held in the temple or in the street, Jayananda could always be seen dancing and chanting enthusiastically. When he was making Maharaja Das into a devotee, Jayananda would visit his house and have big kirtans. Even if there were only two of them, they would jump and chant "Nitai-Gaur Hari-bol!" Also, Karandhara recalls how, one day, after working very hard for ten hours straight, Jayananda suddenly announced, "Hey, it's ten to seven. Let's go to artik." Everyone else was so tired that artik was the last thing on their minds, but Jayananda quickly jumped into the shower and then bounced down to the temple room for artik.

Of all the processes of Krishna consciousness, Jayananda was most attached to preaching. Whether it was during the Sunday feast, while making incense runs, or while building Ratha-yatra carts, Jayananda was always trying to find some person with whom he could share his ecstasy in Krishna consciousness. His preaching was very simple and easy to listen to. "We just have to keep chanting and have faith in the Name." "We just have to chant and take prasadam. Srila Prabhupada is so kind to give us such a simple process." Karandhara remembers how Jayananda preached to him on his first day in the temple. As they worked together preparing a little garden for Srila Prabhupada at the old Los Angeles temple. Jayananda said, "You know, things don't always go just right in Krishna consciousness. You have to keep chanting." At the time, Karandhara couldn't imagine how anything could go wrong in Krishna's service. Years later, however, as he found himself still remembering those words, Karandhara could appreciate the real potency of what Jayananda had said. "So many things may come and go. Just have faith in the Name."

Jayananda's preaching was very attractive for the non-devotees. Chandan Acharya recalls seeing Jayananda engaged in preaching late one night. It was 11:30, and Jayananda was up fixing a broken-down sankirtan van. As he lay on his back working under the van, he preached to two hippies who were standing nearby. All they could see of him was a pair of legs, but they stood by listening, completely absorbed, as Jayananda worked and preached away.

As soon as he felt a person was at all ready, Jayananda would preach to him about chanting and about Srila Prabhupada. There was no protocol or strict etiquette. Just sincere and confidential glorification of Krishna. True to his character, Jayananda was often seen preaching to guests from his wheelchair even during his last days in this world. Devotees who knew him could tell from a distance exactly what he was saying: "You just have to have faith in the Name."

[ChiefCowpie]

Jayananda's Humility





Humility was certainly Jayananda's most prominent quality. He treated everyone as his superior, even new devotees. Maharaja Das remembers that Jayananda was always asking his advice: "Hey, Bhakta Mike, what do you think of this?" Although his service was glorious, he never wanted any glory. He avoided praise like the plague. Devotees got to know that if they wanted to be around him, they'd better not praise Jayananda. Otherwise he would simply leave. Once when he was with Danavir, someone came to Jayananda and began praising him. Jayananda just ignored it. Later he turned to Danavir and said, "You know, if you've been around this movement a few years, people naturally offer you some respect." Not that his service or qualities were so great, he just was around a few years was his humble thinking. If he ever spoke about himself at all, Jayananda would speak so humbly that Lochan Das recalls, "It was difficult not to think of yourself as being better than him. If you had any reason to be puffed up, Jayananda would bring it out in you." Feeling himself unworthy, he would step aside so that others could lead kirtan, give classes, or do artik. Instead, he could be found fixing cars, unplugging toilets, washing dishes, or taking out trash.

Once a new boy came to visit the San Francisco temple. He wanted to help, so Kesava Das sent him to the trash area where Jayananda was preparing the weekly trash run. Jayananda told the boy, "I'm the garbage man around here. For years I've been watching garbage men carry out trash, and now Krishna is giving me a chance to do this for Him." The boy not only helped load the trash, but accompanied Jayananda to the garbage dump. Later that boy became a devotee, and he recalled thinking, "If the garbage men at this temple can be so blissful, just imagine what the rest of the devotees are like!"

Karandhara recalls another incidence of Jayananda's humility. "One day, before Ratha-yatra, I spent the whole day running around with Jayananda. By the time we got back to the temple it was midnight. The whole building was so crowded that we couldn't find any space to lie down. Finally we found room in one little storage closet. I was so tired that all I could do was throw my sleeping bag on the floor and lie down. Then I saw Jayananda walking out of the room. I asked him, `Where are you going?' He said he'd be right back, but I kept pressing him, and finally he explained that he had some rounds of japa chanting to finish up. He didn't want to keep me awake by chanting in our room, nor did he want me to feel bad because he was going out to do something else. He just wanted to slip away to some corner and fulfill his vow. I remember saying, `Sometimes it's not possible to finish all one's rounds because there is so much work to do.' `That's okay, I'm not too tired,' Jayananda replied. I was amazed not only by his consideration for me but by his full submission to Srila Prabhupada."

Although perfectly qualified, Jayananda was reluctant to take a post as temple president or sannyasi. It was not that he wouldn't or couldn't do it - he would do whatever was asked of him. He was happiest just to be working under someone. In this way he was the backbone of the Bay Area's ISKCON temple for years. Through frequently changing administrations, he would always faithfully serve the acting temple president. He was very special, and yet no one paid any special attention to him. That was just the way he liked things.



Jayananda's Service Attitude





Jayananda was always ready to do whatever was necessary to push on Krishna consciousness. He was expert at everything: cooking, preaching, Deity worship, public relations, sankirtan, selling incense, construction, and everything else it takes to run a temple. He was a tireless worker. He would be the first one up in the morning and the last one to sleep at night. It was Jayananda who was always running out to get the flowers, Jayananda who was washing dishes and making sure the kitchen was clean, Jayananda who was often missing class while he was out doing some service, and Jayananda who was always encouraging others to go out and preach, and setting the example himself. Whatever assignment he was given, he would always get done, even if he had to suffer personally for it. No matter how hard he was working, he would never stop for a nap during the day. He seemed to be inexhaustible.

Jambavan Prabhu remembers that many times the San Francisco devotees would go out to Berkeley to distribute the leftover prasad after a Sunday feast. "First Jayananda would be in the kitchen cleaning. Then someone would say, `Hey how about this leftover prasadam?' Jayananda would say, `Okay, first let's get this kitchen clean.' He would organize the cleanup crew and then work twice as hard as anybody. Then he would transfer the prasad, load it and the devotees into the van, drive the van to Berkeley, organize the distribution of prasad, and lead the kirtan while we distributed."

In later years, when he was with the Radha Damodar Traveling Sankirtan Party, Jayananda would help manage and sustain the traveling bus program and simultaneously do all day sankirtan day in and day out, side by side with brahmacharis scarcely half his age. In spite of his advanced position and seniority, he never asked for any special treatment. Leading devotees would often describe him as "the most advanced devotee in the movement."

[ChiefCowpie]

Jayananda's Freedom From Fault-finding

Those who knew Jayananda always noticed one remarkable quality about him: he could not criticize others. It was against his nature. Even if a devotee did something which warranted criticism, Jayananda would usually say nothing, or else something that made the mistake appear to be perfectly understandable. No matter who was giving class or leading kirtan, he would always appreciate it. He never spoke harsh words or chastised anybody. If one devotee was criticizing another within earshot of Jayananda, Jayananda would simply leave.

Rather than criticize others, Jayananda would contribute nothing less than positive Krishna conscious energy to any situation. Sometimes devotees would bring up their expansive aspirations for spreading Krishna consciousness. Jayananda would always encourage their ideas, however extraordinary. At the same time, he was not a fool. He could always pick the right man to do a particular duty.

Because he knew how to encourage people, the temple leaders would always assign new men to work with Jayananda. He saw no distinction between new devotee and old devotee. Both were his superiors. He could quickly give a new man a sense of identity and a feeling that he belonged in Krishna consciousness. A true Vaishnava, he was expert at fanning any little spark of Krishna consciousness into a big fire. Few will dispute the claim that Jayananda made more devotees and helped more pull through than anyone else in the movement.

Dear To Everyone

Like the Six Goswamis, Jayananda was "dear both to the gentle and the ruffians." He was as much at home with the Italians at the produce market as with the brahmacharis in the temple. He would make friends on street sankirtan, and they would often come up to him and say, "Hey, where have you been?" Once a devotee was approached by a staggering drunk in San Francisco. The drunk looked at his robes and asked the devotee, "Hey, where's my old friend Jayananda?"

Many devotees, including Danavir and Chandan Acharya, had the experience of taking over Jayananda's old territory on incense-selling runs or bhoga runs. They would meet people who said such things as, "Where is Johnny Ananda?" or "That man - he's the nicest and most pure man I've ever met." One man told Chandan Acharya, "Well, I don't know much about your philosophy, but if that Jayananda is into it, it must be all right."

Once, near the Ratha-yatra cart work site, Jayananda invited Keshava to step inside a bar and meet some friends of his. They walked inside and immediately some 25 faces looked up and smiled brightly. Someone said, "Oh, this must be your friend you were telling us about, the temple president." They presented the two devotees with a sack full of vegetarian groceries which they had chipped in together to buy.

Among the devotees, Jayananda was like a big brother, always compassionate and willing to listen to them. But devotees rarely burdened him with their problems. "When you were around Jayananda," said Karandhara, "you had no problems."

The devotees loved Jayananda and talked about him during long drives on traveling sankirtan. He was dear to them because he had a sense of humor, too. Jambavan recalls being awakened one night at midnight by Jayananda. "Wake up," said Jayananda, "I've got a benediction for you." He then pushed a big samosa into the sleepy Jambavan's mouth.

Like Maharaja Yudhisthira, Jayananda's enemy was never born.

Expert At Engaging Everyone

Jayananda was very eager to see everyone engaged in Krishna's service. He once wrote, "When I reflect on my consciousness had I not had association with devotees and Srila Prabhupada, I shudder to imagine the nightmare I would be in. If we could become a little dedicated to distributing the mercy, so many could be saved so much suffering."

Because of his genuine compassion, Krishna gave Jayananda the unique ability to make people want to serve Krishna, directly or indirectly. Whenever a new bhakta would come, Jayananda made him feel that he was engaged in important work. He was older, bigger and stronger than just about anyone in the temple, and everyone was glad to be working under him. He was willing to let people do things their own way, without getting finicky about details - unless somebody's creativity interfered with practical necessity. New bhakta or old, everyone felt satisfied after a day's work with Jayananda.

[ChiefCowpie]

This was especially evident during Ratha-yatra time. Jayananda would organize a crew of cynics, bloopers, uncooperative personalities and non-devotees off the street to build the Ratha carts. Although many of his men sat down for a smoke during breaks, he would get them to work 10, 12 or 14 hours a day. He was always glorifying others and working hard himself. In fact, he worked harder than anybody else. All those qualities made him very inspiring to work with.

Moreover, there was something very personal about Jayananda that made everyone want to help him. Once he and Maharaja Das were struggling to load a heavy refrigerator on a truck. Two drunks were walking up the alley, and Jayananda said, "I'm going to give them a chance to do some devotional service." His enthusiasm for devotional service was usually contagious, and this was no exception. Those drunks were right in there helping, and the job was done in no time. Afterwards, as usual, Jayananda said to the drunks, "Now say Hare. Now say Krishna. Now say Hare Krishna." "Hare Krishna." "Jai, Hari-bol! Thank you fellas. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!"



Jayananda's Frugality





Jayananda was well known as a transcendental miser. He hated to spend any of Srila Prabhupada's money. Personally he had almost no possessions, even during his years as a householder. When he was on the road selling incense he would sleep in the car or on a bench, or sometimes with friends he'd make in various cities. Many of these friends, such as Maharaja Das and Jiva Das, later became devotees as a result of Jayananda's preaching.

Jayananda would use his personal charm with people to get them to give everything free or at a discount for Krishna. Without spending huge sums of money, he would personally collect nearly all the bhoga, flowers, lumber, paint, and everything else needed to put on Ratha-yatra each year. One year there were hundreds of devotees at the temple to feed just before the festival. Jayananda went to see one of his famous friends at the produce market - Banana King Louie. He came back with four free truckloads of bananas and first-class pineapples. Coupled with some donated milk products, the devotees ate bananas, pineapples and cream - as much as anyone could eat - all for free.

Jayananda would get almost anything done for free, such as printing, advertising, and mimeographing for Ratha-yatra publicity. What he couldn't get for free, he'd get at a discount, and when he paid he'd get his money's worth. For example, after the festival would end, he'd rent a big truck with which to haul all the equipment back to the temple. Although the devotees would be exhausted after weeks of hard work, he'd insist that everyone come out and help pack things away, lest he have to keep the truck another day and pay another $50 rent.

Although he was a senior devotee and could have had anything he wanted, he always dressed in old dhotis and work clothes which he'd buy for one dollar per set at the Salvation Army thrift store.



Jayananda: King Of Ratha-yatra





Jayananda was the backbone of the Bay Area Ratha-yatra for years, and his experiences at each one are summarized in the 1977 Ratha-yatra edition of Back To Godhead magazine. Behind the scenes, Jayananda was doing everything in preparation for each festival. He would beg food, flowers and funds, buy materials and build the carts, advertise, arrange for permits, and organize the cooking and serving of prasad. Although things always went right down to the wire, he would consistently succeed in fulfilling all his plans every year. After the festival, Jayananda personally brought a prasadam cake or pie to each and every person who had helped in some way or another. Because of his efforts, the devotees in the Bay Area enjoy, to this day, an amazingly harmonious relationship with the city officials.

During the weeks before the festival, Jayananda would sleep at the site where the Ratha carts were under construction. He would rise every day at 4:00 A.M. without fail, even if that meant he was getting only three hours sleep or less. To keep his crew enlivened, he would cook fantastic prasadam on a tiny gas stove at the site. The preparations were always carefully offered, and each was filled with so much bhakti that the temple devotees would sometimes sneak down to the cart site just to get some.

Jayananda regarded his final Ratha-yatra, the 1976 festival in New York, to be his "most successful." Here is how he described the event in a letter to Keshava Das:

"Somehow I got the good fortune to work on the New York Ratha-yatra. It was such an auspicious opportunity. Prabhupada was coming, there was finally a first-class center in Manhattan, and somehow Toshan got an O.K. to use Fifth Avenue for the parade route. Jambavan was here and we had a couple of other boys who worked very hard. I was praying that somehow we could just get the carts finished. Somehow by Krishna's grace it worked out. You wouldn't have believed some of the events. The night before the festival, Saturday, at about 5 or 6 P.M., we were raising Balaram's dome and it was at the top when a huge gust of wind caught it and blew the whole thing over. The framework was all busted, the tubing twisted, etc. I didn't see how we could rectify the situation as there was so much to do on the other two carts. But two devotees who are expert builders vowed they'd somehow get it back together. I had some extra pipes, etc., and they worked all night and by Krishna's grace all three chariots were at Fifth Ave. and 59th St. by 6:30 A.M. Sunday morning."

"There's no place like New York for Ratha-yatra. The parade was tremendous as was the scene in the park. Even when we pulled the carts back to the construction site people would come out of their apartments and bars and chant Hare Krishna. I guess that occasion was the perfection of my career in Krishna consciousness."

[ChiefCowpie]

Jayananda's Relationship With Srila Prabhupada

Jayananda said of Srila Prabhupada, "I knew he didn't want to cheat me so I wanted to work for him." In his dealings with Srila Prabhupada, Jayananda kept his usual low profile. He was generally off working on some project when Srila Prabhupada came to San Francisco. Their relationship was, therefore, as Karandhara describes it, "one of old friends," or "very economical." That is to say, Jayananda did not go in for long meetings with Srila Prabhupada, even when all the other temple leaders were doing so.

By way of reciprocation, Srila Prabhupada would invariably call for Jayananda when he arrived in the temple. Sometimes he would have to make repeated requests, and when Jayananda was finally located, he would resist, saying, "No. I can't go to see him. I'm too dirty. I'm too fallen." He'd work after festivals and let others see Srila Prabhupada. Thus Jayananda's relationship with Prabhupada was always one of service. Service to Prabhupada was the core of Jayananda's life. Once Danavir asked him, "How does one make spiritual advancement in Krishna consciousness?" Jayananda answered, "I don't know. I'm too busy working to think about it."

Srila Prabhupada always appreciated Jayananda's sincere service. He

wrote to Jayananda in December, 1975:

"I was very happy to get your recent letter. I am always thinking of you and praying to Krishna for your advancement in Krishna consciousness. Yes, I remember the old days in San Francisco. Krishna has been so kind upon me to have sent so many sincere disciples to help me push on this movement on behalf of my Guru Maharaja. You continue with your program there in San Francisco, always strictly keeping our principles and Krishna will bless you with greater and greater realization of the importance of this movement. I am dependent upon you, my older disciples, to carry it on. I hope this meets you well."

Jayananda's final meeting with Srila Prabhupada took place in New York City at the 1976 Ratha-yatra. When Prabhupada arrived at the airport, Jayananda drove the car to pick him up. Prabhupada was sitting in the back seat and he asked, "Who is driving?"

The devotees said, "This is Jayananda." "Oh, I know Jayananda," said Prabhupada. "He gave me $5,000 to print my Bhagavad-Gita."

Prabhupada's final letter to Jayananda, written after his disappearance in May 1977, is enclosed herewith.

Jayananda's Fearlessness

Jayananda was not only big and powerful in body; he was strong with faith in Krishna. Therefore nothing could frighten him. Once on San Francisco's Market Street, Jayananda was playing mridanga and leading a kirtan party when, down the street, an enormous man appeared. He was at least seven feet tall and weighed perhaps three hundred pounds. His unkempt beard and drunken appearance indicated that he was an old veteran living in the bars off his pension. As he approached the kirtan party, the temple's reserve kshatriyas, Keshava Das and Guru-kripa Das, readied themselves for a fight. Sure enough, the monster marched up to Jayananda, turned, and began to shout, "Stop that chanting!" Jayananda looked him straight in the eye and said firmly, "Just chant Hare Krishna! Just chant Hare Krishna!" To everyone's amazement, the drunk simply turned and walked away without a scrap.

The ultimate expression of Jayananda's fearlessness came at the end of his life when he was diagnosed with leukemia and cancer of the lymph glands. He wrote from the hospital,

"I was out of the hospital for a month going to the clinic, and now I am back for a couple of weeks of intensive treatment. Actually, the whole thing was a real blessing as it made me realize that death is right at hand. Somehow I need these potent reminders to help me advance in Krishna consciousness. For the time I was in the temple I was appreciating Krishna consciousness so much more than ever before, so it's been a real blessing."

Even in his last few months in L.A. temple, Jayananda never succumbed to fear or self-pity. When his old friends would come to his room and see his withered form and ghostly appearance, they would find it hard to talk their way around his condition. What Jayananda communicated, on the other hand, was complete disinterest in the whole subject of his health. Instead he was scheming how to put on Ratha-yatra in Los Angeles.

Sitting on the lawn in his wheelchair, looking like death personified, Jayananda could not stop thinking and talking about Ratha-yatra. Karandhara remembers looking at him from his desk. Jayananda was there, the epitome of Krishna consciousness and fearlessness of death. Karandhara thought it odd that he didn't feel any great pity or remorse for Jayananda. Then he could understand that if Jayananda was so Krishna conscious, how could anyone look at him and not also be Krishna conscious?

Jayananda pushed on the Los Angeles Ratha-yatra until he was so weak that he could no longer pick up the phone and call old friends to ask for donations. Factually he collected a large amount of laxmi and devised the various means by which the festival could take place. The festival managers will readily admit that, without Jayananda's presence, the first Ratha-yatra festival in L.A. would not have taken place in 1977. Thus he proved that by engaging in devotional service, one transcends even the fear of death.

Conclusion

That Jayananda passed away while Srila Prabhupada was still on the planet is not insignificant. In this way, Srila Prabhupada was able to confirm to all of us that "everyone should follow the example of Jayananda." Certainly those who knew Jayananda should take it upon themselves to preach about his qualities of humility, eagerness to serve, equanimity, and devotion to Krishna and Prabhupada. We offer our humble obeisances to all such devotees who understand these qualities and try to share them. We offer our humble obeisances unto His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada and to Sri Srimad Jayananda Prabhu, the exemplary teacher of devotional service in Krishna consciousness.

[sleeping jiva]

Interviewer: Do you believe that other religions have some truth to them because they all are... Prabhupada: I have already told that religion means searching after God, every religion. The process may be different. The audience may be different. Just like in Christianity there is conception of God, "God created this world." So this is a fact. We also say. But we say in very lucid explanation from the Vedas. We don't stop, simply saying, "God created," but how created, how things developed, these descriptions are there in the Vedic literature. That is the difference. Otherwise there is no difference of opinion. The Christians accept God created this world; the Jewish religion, they also accept God created this world; the Muslims they also accept God created this world; we also accept God created this world. So "God is the supreme; God is great," that is accepted by everyone. But the only difference is that we give details so that modern mind, who are advanced in education and scientific knowledge, they can understand, whereas others, they cannot give in detail. Therefore they are deviating gradually because the modern, advanced, educated persons they want to know how God created this world, and that description is lacking. But we can give that. That is the difference. Otherwise the primary principle, to understand God--God is great; we are small, tiny; we are subordinate; we are maintained by God--this idea is everywhere.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

"Yes, this Krsna consciousness movement is not a sentimental religious system. It is science and philosophy. The attempt is to awaken God consciousness. God is neither Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. God is God. There may be angles of vision to approach God, but God is one." Srila Prabhupada speaks to La Trobe University, Melbourne , July 1, 74


Btw...I saw Hair last night. Its really cool...they chant the maha-mantra during it while dancing in a circle...I did make sure to sing along :)

[sleeping jiva]

yeah I know, have you seen the movie? hare krishna chants are EVERYWHERE! lol. let's do a mahamantra graffiti -hahaha.

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

I haven't seen the movie yet...I loved the show though...it looked like it was a lot of fun to do...and at the end they pulled people on stage to sing "Let the Sunshine In" and my friend and I got pulled up...it was fun :)

[Jaganathadasa]

"My hair like Jesus wore it

Hallelujah I adore it.." lol!



Hair Soundtrack Lyrics (http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/h/hairlyrics/index.html)

- Air Lyrics (http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/h/hairlyrics/airlyrics.html)



Welcome! sulphur dioxide
Hello! carbon monoxide
The air, the air
Is everywhere

Breath deep, while you sleep
Breath deep

Bless you, alcohol bloodstream
Save me, nicotine lung steam

Incense, incense
Is in the air
Breath deep, while you sleep
Breath deep

Cataclysmic ectoplasm
Fallout atomic orgasm
Vapor and fume
At the stone of my tomb
Breathing like a sullen perfume
Eating at the stone of my tomb

Welcome! sulphur dioxide
Hello! carbon monoxide
The air, the air
Is everywhere

Breath deep, while you sleep
Breath deep

Deep, deep, deep, cough cough

Hair Soundtrack Lyrics (http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/h/hairlyrics/index.html)

- Walking in Space Lyrics (http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/h/hairlyrics/walkinginspacelyrics.html)



Doors locked (doors locked)
Blinds pulled (blinds pulled)
Lights low (lights low)
Flames high (flames high)

My body (my body)
My body

My body (my body)
My body

My body
Is walking in space
My soul is in orbit
With God face to face

Floating, flipping
Flying, tripping

Tripping from Pottsville to Mainline
Tripping from Mainline to Moonville

(Tripping from "Pot"sville to Starlight
Tripping from Starlight to Moonville)

On a rocket to
The Fourth Dimension
Total self awareness
The intention

My mind is as clear as country air
I feel my flesh, all colors mesh

Red black
Blue brown
Yellow crimson
Green orange
Purple pink
Violet white
White white
White white
White white

All the clouds are cumuloft
Walking in space
Oh my God your skin is soft
I love your face

How dare they try to end this beauty?
How dare they try to end this beauty?

To keep us under foot
They bury us in soot
Pretending it's a chore
To ship us off to war

In this dive
We rediscover sensation
In this dive
We rediscover sensation

Walking in space
We find the purpose of peace
The beauty of life
You can no longer hide

Our eyes are open
Our eyes are open
Our eyes are open
Our eyes are open
Wide wide wide!





Watch the movie SvgGrdnBeauty, so much fun!

Haribol!

[ChiefCowpie]

Amogha Virya Departs
By Radha Charan Das
Posted July 25, 2003 Amogha Virya, an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada, left this planet July 22, 2003, at a hospital in Kansas City, Missouri. Other devotees had not been informed of the critical nature of his disease. Staff workers in attendance at the hospital said that he was prepared for death. Although other devotees were not near, the hospital staff reports, Amogha Virya, towards the very end, fell on his hands and knees in prayer. Shortly afterward, he fell over and never regained consciousness.

http://www.dipika.org/2003/07/21.25/25.amogha.virya.departs/amogha2.jpg


Through the years, Amogha Virya spent considerable time in hospitals. One devotee who knew Amogha Virya quite well and had visited him at several hospitals observed that the illness sent to him must have been a very special benediction.

"When I went to see Amogha at the hospital," said Krishna Das, "I was amazed to be greeted by patients chanting the Mahamantra. Even when he was in great personal distress, Amogha never stopped preaching to others. He was such an intense and sincere devotee that this must have been Krishna’s way of sending a preacher to those inside the hospital system." It was also noted that Amogha Virya was generous in distributing prasadam brought from the temple for him. He would give it to as many other patients as possible.

Amogha Virya’s last temple days were dedicated to the Rupanuga Vedic College in Kansas City, Missouri. He had a spiritual passion for arotiks. He would often lead the kirtans and would inspire the devotees to chant with incredible feeling and enthusiasm.

Also, during classes, either in Srimad Bhagavatam or Gita, Amogha Virya’s encyclopedic memory was a great resource. He could remember the smallest details about almost every story in the scriptures. If the devotee giving class momentarily forgot the name or some information from a little-known tale, Amogha Virya could be relied on to supply the smallest details. He could also be counted on to explain the spiritual point of these stories.

A special memorial service is being planned by Rupanuga Vedic College. It is also planned that Amogha Virya’s body will be cremated and the ashes dispersed in a sacred river in India. Amogha Virya’s relatives were content that his remains be taken care of by the devotees. They believed that Amogha Virya felt closer to the devotees than to his own biological relatives, and they wanted to respect this sentiment, which had been with him throughout his spiritual life.

© dipika.org July 25, 2003

[ChiefCowpie]

Amogha Virya:
Amazingly Austere, Very Sweet
By Braja Bihari dasa
Posted August 6, 2003 http://www.dipika.org/images/components/sp-oval.178.jpg
All glories to
Srila Prabhupada!


Amogha Virya Prabhu was in Detroit ISKCON for a number of years in the early 80s. He was on the sankirtan party at that time, and I must have spent close to a year traveling with him around America.

He had a very sweet disposition and was so eager to give people some chance to serve Krishna by taking a book, giving a donation, and tasting a little prasadam.

He had an incredible taste for hearing the Krishna Book. He would often read when he was taking prasadam, and he would carry the book around with him everywhere he went. He even read Krishna Book while walking around the parking lots on sankirtan.

I also recall that his tone of voice was very appealing. It was a soothing voice, soft and kind.

Amogha Virya was amazingly austere. He could curl up in the smallest of spaces to take rest, and he was able to stay out on sankirtan for hours at a stretch in the freezing Michigan winters.

Amogha was also one of the least envious people I've ever met. He would never talk ill of anyone and had no taste for small talk about devotees.

In his own unique and eccentric way he was a great soul, and I'm sure by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada he is wonderfully situated right now.

Your servant,
Braja Bihari dasa

[sleeping jiva]

hare krishna!

[SvgGrdnBeauty]

Thank you Jaganathadasa for those lyrics...I'm going to get it from the library maybe today...

Also, thanks ChiefCowPie for some wonderful uplifting stories. :)

Hare Krishna! :)

[ChiefCowpie]

"In the Kali Yuga, However, I'll use the weapons of My transcendental holy names, qualities, and the potency of My 'prema-bhaktas' (pure devotees). With these I'll conquer the people's demoniac mentalities and award them pure devotional service to Radha and Krsna.
"Now without considering anything else, everyone just come with Me, and we'll destroy the sinful activities of the age of Kali. With the powerful chopper of 'nama-sankirtan' I'll cut the hard knots of demoniac desires from the hearts of everyone.
"Even the sinners reject or flee to foreign countries, still they will get the mercy. I will send 'mor senapati bhakta' to go there and deliver them.
['mor' means My; 'senapati' means a military field commander, and 'bhakta' means devotee. So Lord Caitanya will empower His own devotee to spread Krishna consciousness around the world.]
"I will inundate the entire universe with My love. Not a pinch of misery or lamentation will remain. I will freely give My ecstatic love to the demigods ('devas'), and all moving and non-moving living entities."(Sri Caitanya Mangala, Locan dasa Thakura.; Mahanidhi Swami. 1994. page 48.)

"Brahmananda: Oh, Bhavananda Maharaja, he knows. The astrologer in Mayapur?
Bhavananda: Oh, Mr... In Svarup Ganj there's one big astrologer. So he saw your photograph, and he said, 'This is the face of the most powerful spiritual personality on the planet.'
Prabhupada: (laughs) Hare Krsna.
Brahmananda: Then what else?
Bhavananda: Then he said that, 'I can tell from his face that he can make a house in which the whole world can live peacefully.'
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupada!
Prabhupada: At least I desire so. (break) Where your preaching was going on?
Tamala Krsna: We were preaching in Berkeley, California. Our other parties are spread out all over the country. One party is in .....................!"(Morning Walk Conversation,