Christianity and Rastafari

[peace_sells]

What's the difference?

[Crush]

For as far as know, Rastafari is a rewriting of the bible.

Hmm, I had some stuff here, but I'm not too sure about them. You should check out www.bobmarley.com in the life section is a great deal about rastafari.

[Ash_Freakstreet]

how would you describe ratsafari in one sentence?

[MellowPsychedelia]

A rewriting of the bible?? no, no. They beleive that christ has already come a second time (some of them don't beleive Jesus was christ so they may call it a first time). That some it up, that and all life can be traced backt o the promised land etheopia.

Peace

[thumontico]

Poor bastards, their promised land is Ethiopia.

[peace_sells]

so the only difference is that Haile Selassie I was the second/first messiah... bah, no I'm confused because Im sure it says in the Ible that the second time the messiah comes that (not quoted from here) crazy thing will happen bla bla bla.. if the second one has already come what happens now? im so confused!

[reefer121]

i read or heard that rastas only believe the first testement while christians believe the first and second. im probably wrong tho so dont listen to me

[Peppy]

Ible, sounds like wannabee speak to me, many rastas read from the Pibi, (black mans translation of the bible, combating the catholic misinturpretation) but there are many different beleifs of rastafari some more jewish others more heavily christian (mainly Ethiopian Orthodox), i think if you gonna call your self rastafarian then you should really beleive in christ, 'cause if you beleive in Haile Selassie I in calling him that you are acepting the christ, since the name means power of the trinity, only the very ill informed beleive Haile Selassie I to be the man of Revelation, although all wait upon the apocylyps as that is another main part of the faith, but with the apocalyps shall come the one whos name is unknow (some times refered to as SHILOH due to old testament references)

[peace_sells]

how can it be wannabee speak quite a few religions use that not just rastafari e.g. islam. Also, if I ever do a "wannabee speak" e.g. downpressor, it's not because I "wannabee" a rasta it's out of respect.

Not all rastas read from the Pibi, and if the pibi is just another version of the bible how can we trust that? I dont get how we can trust it being rewritten and not just trust the original. Like I looked at a youth bible the other day and it says something in the front like "some words may have been lost in translation" so i put it down because how can I trust that? my rasta friend said that truly rastafari was about loving Jah nothing to do with these books and "what you have to do to be a rasta" type things but I lost contact with him so I can't ask him again. I asked him before and he said "people try to say rasta is a form of christianity but it's not" and he never really told me why.
Peppy if you are so clued up on this subject then should you have not thought twice before calling it "rastafarian" or are you just ignorant to the fact is offends people?
(I'm sorry I'm in a really bad mood)

[naked_ape]

Poor bastards, their promised land is Ethiopia.
Eh? Ethiopia is the most fertile part of Africa, the whole of the Egyptian empire was formed on the fertile mud that washed from ethiopia in the flood season up the red nile and onto The Nile's floodplains.

Ethiopia is green and lush. Although there have been famines of late due to desertification i do believe?

[prophet7]

how would you describe ratsafari in one sentence?
I and I do not one sentence but, just ONE word to describe Rastafari :

Rastafari = Righteousness

One Love
prophet7

[prophet7]

Poor bastards, their promised land is Ethiopia.Who say that ? Rasta ?

I and I promised land is Mount Zion next to I and I Father the Allmighty GOD !
You are the ones who are the poor "bastards" - taking a religion that was not yours from the beginning and confusing it up !

Besides, it has been prooven that Ithiopia is the beginning of civilization. The earliest remains of man have been found there ! Does not your Bible say "as it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end" !?

One Love
prophet7

[goldmund]

Whoever said that about Ethiopia is grossly misinformed about her past and current potential. Back to the original question...
Rastafari differs greatly from person to person. Anyone can say that they are a rasta, and because there is no one widely accepted orthodox, or mainstream, rastafarian structure/hierarchy, etc. there is no one to really tell them otherwise. Most would loosely agree on the "preeminence" of Haile Sellasie, most refering to him as the returned messiah, some as an "icon" of Christ. Some, influenced by more eastern beliefs, see him as an avatar. Some call themselves "rasta" based soley on their lifestyle, natty dreads, etc. without a firm opinion (I know I get hell for that :) )on His Majesty whatsoever.
As far as the Piby goes, I have ever even seen one. To say that this book, written by a Mason and a person who ended up calling himself christ, and says all sorts of crazy things is the center of faith for even most Rastas, I think is off, but that's just my experience. Most firmly believe in both the Old and New Testement (perhaps with a slight bent, or inclusion of, the OT; more so than most Christians), but question certain things in the King James Version, leading to disputes among rastas on some things. Most would like a full translation of the Ethiopian Bible which includes many books that were lost out of our bibles in the West after the Oriental Orthodox (the so-called "Monophysite" Churches) were excommunicated from the Roman and Byzantine Rite Churches in 451 CE.
I'd like to throw in more about Bobos, esp. with their prominence in dancehall, but we'll leave that for now.
Blessings Ones...

[HuckFinn]

I'm hoping someone here can verify whether this is true:

http://www.lionofzion.com/faq/78da334a040000c70094/Bob+Marley.html

[goldmund]

this is absolutely true. this is why his funeral was officiated by the Abba Yeshak and the EOC. I wonder if this conversion took place before or after he found out he had cancer.

[HuckFinn]

I suspect that cancer had the humbling effect of causing him to reconsider his need for a savior, which he had defiantly rejected in "Get Up, Stand Up."

[goldmund]

I don't think he rejected the notion of savior, or even Christ Huck. I think think he rejected/questioned the spoon-fed Anglican/Western Christian version.

[MellowPsychedelia]

He embraced Christ and Selassie. Though I am not sure if he rejected the rasta way before death. But during his life as a rasta he also accepted christ.

[goldmund]

He had to reject the belief that Haile Sellasie was Christ in order to be baptized by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. Coincidently, Rita had been a Christian in the EOC since 1972. Peter Tosh was also baptized, but was kicked out for his loud mouth :) . Seriously, he had this thing with swearing at anyone, including Church officials, etc. I am not sure whether or not he was given an Orthodox burial.

[sm0key42o8]

Marley did not recieve treatment for the cancer at first b/c he felt JAH but it there and JAH wanted it there. It was only at the end he was convinced to get treated, but sadly it was to late...

[goldmund]

He embraced Christ and Selassie. Though I am not sure if he rejected the rasta way before death. But during his life as a rasta he also accepted christ.
Most rastas would say this; however, in this case it is not true. In order for former rastas to recieve baptism in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, they must reject the belief that Haile Selassie is Christ incarnate, etc. There were a few early baptisms that took place in the 60s where this did not happen, but this is now a mandate and was also for Bob Marley.

[HuckFinn]

I don't think he rejected the notion of savior, or even Christ Huck. I think think he rejected/questioned the spoon-fed Anglican/Western Christian version.Except that the lyrics explicitly reject the notion of dying and going to heaven in Jesus' name.

[goldmund]

No, he actually doesn't reject the "notion" of dying and going to heaven in Jesus' name, he rejects those who tell people not to live their lives or to stand up for basic human rights because everything will be alright in heaven.

Based on other conversations that I have had with you in other threads, I am sure you are aware of the influence of Augustinian thought on Western Christendom. It is a theology based largely on death, on suffering. Look at the differences between the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, for example. In almost every Catholic church, Christ is exalted, in front, dead and nailed to a cross. In the Orthodox Churches, you will see him as the risen Pantocrator (emperor/ruler over all). In Rastafari, with His Majesty as Emperor of Ethiopia until just a few decades ago, this difference is even more pronounced. There was/is an energizing, life-affirming theology that runs through the core of Rastafari. This Nazarite doctrine shapes their view of death in general and informs their views on those who use it as the center of their faith, rather than the resurrection or the "God with us" philosophy of Rastafari.

[HuckFinn]

Most people think,
Great God will come from the skies,
Take away everything
And make everybody feel high.
But if you know what life is worth,
You will look for yours on earth:
And now you see the light,
You stand up for your rights. Jah!This seems like a pretty clear rejection of the foundational Christian hope in the Kingdom of God to be consummated at the return of Christ, when all will be judged, evil vanquished, and believers in Christ resurrected in imperishable bodies. Instead, this song tells us to look for heaven on earth. This is antithetical to the teaching of Paul in 1 Cor. 15, which specifically says that we are to be pitied more than anyone if we base our hope only on this life. This doesn't mean that we are to be unconcerned about justice, but we are to have no illusions about the perfectability of this present order, which is destined to perish just like our corrupted bodies. Rather, we are to proclaim (and exemplify) the kingdom of justice that Jesus inaugurated.


We sick an' tired of-a your ism-skism game -
Dyin' 'n' goin' to heaven in-a Jesus' name, Lord.
We know when we understand:
Almighty God is a living man.Again, this sounds like an overt rejection of Christ's unique incarnation and atoning sacrifice on our behalf, in favor of an exaltation of man as God. According to Scripture, man is hopelessly alienated from God by sin, apart from faith in Christ and his redemptive work on the cross. The "western" theology of suffering is as indispensable to biblical Christianity as the "eastern" theology of triumph. We see in Rev. 5 that the Lamb is declared victorious and worthy to open the scroll of human history and judgment because he was slain from the foundation of the world. There is no Easter without Good Friday.

[goldmund]

While I definately agree that there could be no Easter without Good Friday, I am talking about theological EMPAHSIS. In any Orthodox church, they also have icons of the crucifixion, and the burial.
Rasta is like this too, and while I don't personally defend it, there has been a shift away from Rastas concider the first incarnation. This happened also in the primative Christian church with the OT as they were consistently ostricized by the Judeans.

Combine this with white culture overlapping Christianity with slavery; here you will find the roots for any remaining animosity between Rastafari and the Christian churches.

[HuckFinn]

My point is that the song doesn't criticize the false teaching of western churches on matters of social justice; it decries basic Christian theology.

[goldmund]

Which part? "That Almighty God is a living man"? seems consistent with me.
The other part could be read as an attack against basic Christian doctrine, but I believe that because of the verse that proceeds it "sick and tired of your ism skism game", he is talking about the corrupters of Christianity. Also placed within the context of the song, this seems like a more plausible meaning to me.

I guarantee that rastas do not reject the principle foundations of Christianity. It is a philosophically indefensible possition for them to take. Haile Sellasie was given the title "defender of the faith", of which faith? The Ethiopian Orthodox Church. If you believe that Haile Sellasie is the second incarnation, then you also have to believe in the first.

I liked that article though. There has almost always been a somewhat large sub movement within the "true" rasta community (I mean this seperated from reggae fans, pot smokers who listen to Bob, etc) toward some more "orthodox" form of Christianity. I think this will be more true as time goes on, with access to information about the life of His Majesty on the internet, etc.

Rita Marely became a Christian in 1972! Judy Mowat became an Evangelical Christian sometime during the 80s. Even Peter Tosh was baptized (but was later kicked out). There have also been a proliferation of Christian bands within the reggae/dancehall scene.

[ryupower]

I was abbout to ask this question...especially because they claim the 'Lion of Judas' title.

[goldmund]

Most Rastas haven't rewritten the bible. Many would treat certain passages with some skepticism, believing it may have been tampered with by first the political processes after the middle of the 5th C., and then by the translation into English by King James. Some Rastas believe that language reflects elements of culture, and as such it reflects social structure as well. Again, some Rastas believe that unfortunately, when the Bible was put into English they used the language of oppressers, capitalists, slave masters, etc.

Many Rastas would like a full English translation of the Ethiopian Bible, which was in full use by Christians in the Mediterranean during the 4-5th C. but some books were removed by later Christians afraid of how people would read some of the books, such as Enoch. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church later included, but was more like apocrypha, the Kebra Negast, or "Glory of Kings" which legitamized/taught/whatever about the ancient Solomonic lineage of Ethiopian Kings, of which Haile Selassie was a part. Most scholars regard this addition to date from the 9th C. CE., but who knows ;) ?

As far as Old v. New Testaments, most Rastas regard both as equally valid. Some place more emphasis on the Old Testament than would many mainstream Christians; however, it is the New Testament that both fully proclaims the nature of the divinity, and gives us further hope for the end times.

Some rastas use the Holy Piby. This WAS a rewriting of the Bible, but was not commonly used and had even become extremely RARE by the 80s. In fact, the Holy Piby had become so rare during this period, that academics that studied Rastafari had only been able to find ONE COPY!!! in all of Jamaica. This copy was not only incomplete, but had also undergone many changes in and of itself. Since the advent of the internet, I have seen versions available online, but I am not sure how authentic they are to the original. Nevertheless, the guy who wrote this, Leonard Howell, is widely regarded in the Rasta community as an early evangelizer, but also a fraud who made himself out to be an incarnation of Haile Selassie amongst his followers and also before the Jamaican courts who promptly locked him up in an insane asylum.

[peace_sells]

Well guys, I found my truth in RasTafarI!

I would like to produce a link which also debates on this topic - read the Rasponses, I hope it helps you to form an opinion with more insight on di truth.
PLUS you DO KNOW that that link was taken from a "CHRISTAFARI" site, as far as I've seen there isn't any actual evidence shown *pulls angry face*, its obviously going to be biased!
Blessings xx
http://groups.msn.com/RASCOMTheRastafarianCommunity/general.msnw?action=get_message&ID_Message=5164&ShowDelete=0&CDir=-2

[Zion]

Any man is a son GOD thus a Christian,Any man is a son of JAH thus a Rasta. Christians celebrate life through wine, Rastas celebrate through Herb. But every son of our GOD JAH fights against our spiritual babylon in a the same way

[goldmund]

I have to say that article is kinda lame. His article breeds that rumor mill authorship that confuses people on what the facts are.

The first thing that got me was that he said it was impossible to confess Rastafari and Christ at the same time. He said that to most Rastas, confessing Christ is even BLASPHEMY! This is completely false. Even if it is true in some circles, to make it as a blanket statement for all rastas is simply riddiculous. Almost every true and devout Rasta that I know confesses Christ. Even the false ones and ones confess him in word, so it is certainly not blasphemy!

The other part of the article he talks about Bob's conversion. Again, all the information he uses, he is getting second-hand from Tommy Cowan. While this is not necessarily bad, he could have at least checked his facts. For example, it would be virtually impossible for Bob to have said, "I need to be baptized now!" and to have recieved baptism then and their on demand. While it is true that he was baptized in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and that in order to do this he had to have renounced his belief in Haile Sellasie, it certainly didn't happen in a day. Rita had been baptized since 1972 and talking to him about it at least since that time. Once he had made the decision, he would have had to have been accepted as a catechumin, which is usually a year long-process (can be shortened depending on your enrollment date's proximity to Easter, or unless you are an infant). You must be schooled in EOC doctrine and ceremony even to know the rite of baptism, ie. the renunciation of satan, the catechumin's robes, the order of bathing and annointing, the role of the eucharist and all of this within the important context of Good Friday to Easter. Blah, blah,...

Okay, third and last point on why this article sucks: the author is trying to convince people who like bob and reggae, or the more serious rasta, that going down the Christian path is the only right way and that Christianity has all of the answers. He then goes on to tell about Tommy Cowan's experience within a Christian Church. This "Christian" church does not fully accept him as a member of thier congregation. They don't let him come up to the front to give his testimony?! Sound like hypocrites to me.

[RobbyRedLocks]

I never met a Rasta who did not believe Jesus to be The Son of God

here's a Quote from Peter Tosh's - I Am That I Am (acoustic cd w/ interview)

interviewer's question: "what is a Rastaman?"

Peter Tosh's answer: "The man who follow the life of Christ - The same who live the Life of Christ - NOT INTEND to subordinate to colonialism and imperialism and capitalism"


so much division and so much factions - when will we stop thinking the way people with hate problems want us to think
..........make way for the positive way...........
http://www.hipgallery.com/photopost2/data/500/15477JAHvolunteersFrntMinglewood_small.jpg

[peace_sells]

yeah that's what I mean Goldmund, -
The responses to the article prove it to be wrong in itself, if you read them, apparently some people from IRASCOM wrote and complained about the article and they gave a completely airheaded uncaring reply that just looked like they'd farted it out to try and make it all better.

[goldmund]

Well guys, I found my truth in RasTafarI!
Wow. those words are hot as fire!

And yes, the boys with Christafari are good people, but indeed biased. Not only biased, but they are actually trying to push their beliefs on you! Still the fact remains, Bob could not have been baptized at that point in time in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and not have renounced his faith in the omnipotence of Haile Selassie. I am certain that he carried some form of the faith in his heart, for those of us who have seen certain things, can never forget. Many Jesus Dreads believe that Christ worked through His Majesty, and was sooooo close to him in almost all things that it would be right call him an "icon of christ". Even many in Twelve Tribes have been leaning this way for some time, INCLUDING PROPHET GAD!!!

But after almost 10 years of pondering these questions, I still am not 100% sure. His Majesty fullfills so many biblical prophesies concerning the second coming it is astoning, even for someone with a fairly secular/academic mind.

May God bless you Peace_sells!

[Puffis]

Thats interesting Goldmund you raise a good point, as far as what the difference between the two is probably just the same thing that seperates Christians and Jews, in that Christians believe Jesus was the messiah, Jews don't. Rastas recognize Haile Selassie I divinity, Christians don't