those who come here to preach religeon

[Pablo]

those who come here to preach religeon, which seems to be most of you. Dont you realize that your faith is best practiced as a personal thing. When you come here to push it on people who don't agree with you, you are meerly trying to reasure yourself. It would be a healthy endeavor of exploration if you listened for new ideas, but since you do it with the mind set that you are the enlightened teacher and we are all wrong there is no reason for you to be here. If you are truely right then i sugest you spend a lot of time truely contemplating your religeon, if it is the truth and you focus on it hard enough and gain a REAL understanding of it, then you would not need to write for so long, because one who knew what was the way to the truth and had followed that way for a long time would be able to see what those who were on the right path needed, and to the ones who needed you to intervine, you would only need to say a few words.
The asumption that we are atheists and agnostics as an oposit to your perticular religeon is unobjective. They are not relative to any faith. For some thats what it becomes, but really it is just admitting that you don't know, many agnostics even study a religeon or atend services of it. for many of you i think your anger grows not from frustration that you cannot save them, i think that is an excuse you make to yourself. It grows from the fear you feel, when you think about someone who does not belive as you do and feel a weakness, one you probably deny, and that causes you fear, which causes you anger. If you could get one of us to actually see what you tell yourself you see, then it would reafirm you, but sadly, when someone does on rare ocation "awaken" it is the same sort of giving in in the guise of joyful realization that you felt, and you are not satisfied, you have onl gained a fellow seeker of reasurance.
I have under pressure from so many belivers, and as a fair chance to myself if it held something as so many promised, read the entire bible with an open mind, fully considering that this amazing thing they spoke of was true, and atended church, in many places of many denominations. I learned a few things about human nature, but mostly i just saw how people can reasure others while reasuring themselfs, so forming a mob mentality and turing real fear into psudo joy. For you it may mean something and we have heard your peice, it is fine by me that you come here, but doing so and looking down on us only hurts your case, because by being supirior, you are not practicing what you claim to belive.
At the base of the issue is this, discussing or arguing can only give a true atheist new ideas, but they are not light switches, you cannot "change them" you can only add to themeven if i met god in person i would see no need to become religeous, i would belive in god then, but what diference would that make but that i would posses another bit of information?

[atropine]

i do agree with ya, but at the same time many atheists/agnostics (more so atheists, as agnostic dont deny the possibility) go into the theist forums to stir.. every group has some people who will try to impose..

[Kharakov]

those who come here to preach religeon,Should spell it right (read your own comment). And another thing:
When you come here to push it on people who don't agree with you, you are meerly trying to reasure yourself.Actually, one of the reasons I am here is to harass morons who don't get it (like you).

It would be a healthy endeavor of exploration if you listened for new ideas,Likewise, argumentum ad novitatum has been so logical over the years that I am surprised that people even have to mention it.

but since you do it with the mind set that you are the enlightened teacher and we are all wrong there is no reason for you to be here.The same reason your math teacher has to be there.
If you are truely right then i sugest you spend a lot of time truely contemplating your religeon,lol, I am glad I spend as much time contemplating God as I do drinking. You know Ike, poker might not be your game, how 'bout a spelling bee?

if it is the truth and you focus on it hard enough and gain a REAL understanding of it, then you would not need to write for so long,Kid, you ever consider how entertaining it is to talk to people who have no clue what you are talking about, and all the while you know they will understand your position later?

because one who knew what was the way to the truth and had followed that way for a long time would be able to see what those who were on the right path needed, and to the ones who needed you to intervine, you would only need to say a few words. Such as: Fuck you, you will never understand God because God hates you! :p
i think that is an excuse you make to yourself.I enjoy what I do, and need no excuses for it. I have never done anything wrong in my whole life. I am a better person than you.

It grows from the fear you feel, when you think about someone who does not belive as you do and feel a weakness, one you probably deny, and that causes you fear, which causes you anger.What fear? If someone does not know what I do, eventually they will, and until then, I will talk circles around them, because all of their beliefs are bullshit.

If you could get one of us to actually see what you tell yourself you see, then it would reafirm you,Sorry, a person can't show you what God shows the person, only God can show you. Unfortunately, you will never get it.

but doing so and looking down on us only hurts your case, because by being supirior, you are not practicing what you claim to belive.I believe I am superior to you.

At the base of the issue is this, discussing or arguing can only give a true atheist new ideas, but they are not light switches, you cannot "change them" you can only add to themeven if i met god in person i would see no need to become religeous, i would belive in god then, but what diference would that make but that i would posses another bit of information?Which is all you ever get. So what? Are you arguing that you do not change from gaining new information (learn)?

[BlackGuardXIII]

I have never seen you write with such aggression. You must be really ticked off. Or, is it really sarcastic?
God has not ever shown me any visual proof, but the trials and disasters of my life have shown a miraculous series of events to me, that defy rational explanation.
I believe in Spirit, and that is what I think has allowed me the opportunity to have witnessed so many miracles. This has confirmed and solidified my stance that logic and science cannot and do not explain our life completely, and I feel never will.
Not mine anyway.

[Hikaru Zero]

Actually, one of the reasons I am here is to harass morons who don't get it (like you).

Shouldn't you belong to the Mind Fuck boards then?

As Pablo said, if you want to talk about agnosticism/atheism here, then talk about it. If you're just going to stand around looking pretty and harassing people, then take the bully-stick out of your ass and move along, Kharakov.

Nobody likes a person who is so disatisfied with their religion that they have to invade non-religious boards to glorify their own religion. It's a self-admittance of defeat. =)

[Razorofoccam]

"..............that logic and science cannot and do not explain our life completely, and I feel never will."
Not mine anyway.
BlackGuard

Agree.

Occam

[BlackGuardXIII]

Thank you sir, your agreement means more to me than most.
I believed at a young age, and though had much doubt for many years, never stopped.

[Pablo]

people who dont have a good reason to be angry always make fun of spelling errors, you did it twice. I see so many who act this way, not just chistians in the agnostic forum, also agnostics in the christian forum, omnivores in the vegan forum and so on. They all seem to be pretending that they aren't angry and afraid, that they are simply supirior and that they do it because they enjoy making people mad, or because they like the atention. There must be some way people with diferent belifes and veiws can talk without becoming childish, but even in the senate, scrath that, expecialy in the senate, where our most mature minds are suposed to work out issues, it becomes a mess of childish arguing that doesnt acomplish anything good.

As for your math teacher coment, a math teacher is usually in a math class where there are student who came to learn math, if you want to preach to a group of people who came to learn about god, then go to a churh, not an agnostic forum, that would be like a high level math teacher going into a history class, and talking over the history teacher about math, and saying it was a better place for him to speak because the history students know less math then the math students.

[Hikaru Zero]

people who dont have a good reason to be angry always make fun of spelling errors, you did it twice. I see so many who act this way, not just chistians in the agnostic forum, also agnostics in the christian forum, omnivores in the vegan forum and so on. They all seem to be pretending that they aren't angry and afraid, that they are simply supirior and that they do it because they enjoy making people mad, or because they like the atention. There must be some way people with diferent belifes and veiws can talk without becoming childish, but even in the senate, scrath that, expecialy in the senate, where our most mature minds are suposed to work out issues, it becomes a mess of childish arguing that doesnt acomplish anything good.

As for your math teacher coment, a math teacher is usually in a math class where there are student who came to learn math, if you want to preach to a group of people who came to learn about god, then go to a churh, not an agnostic forum, that would be like a high level math teacher going into a history class, and talking over the history teacher about math, and saying it was a better place for him to speak because the history students know less math then the math students.

Pablo

Owned.

Hikaru agrees completely. =)

Hikaru

[Sera Michele]

I'll debate with a christian any day. Doesn't mean I am afraid. Maybe I'm a little angry or offended at times, however. Usually just annoyed at how little people think and research for themselves. Mostly, I like to debate.

[Kharakov]

Shouldn't you belong to the Mind Fuck boards then?I consider this more of a mind rape... with a non consensual, immature mind. Or do I?

As Pablo said, if you want to talk about agnosticism/atheism here, then talk about it.You can ignore my posts, young grasshoppa.
If you're just going to stand around looking pretty and harassing people, then take the bully-stick out of your ass and move along, Kharakov.lol. thanx for saying that.

Nobody likes a person who is so disatisfied with their religion that they have to invade non-religious boards to glorify their own religion. It's a self-admittance of defeat. =):). I don't know if I have a 'religion', I just hang out with God all the time, and all the glory I need is a blow job from God (which is more of a private thing that you wouldn't even understand if you don't know God). I have to admit that I think it is good for others to have the benefits that I have in knowing God.

If you have noticed (from my posts) I am not the typical fundamentalist type propagating fundamentalist hype with another soundbite every day. ***I*** take outside input seriously (as long as it is correct).

[Pablo]

debate is good, im talking about childish arguing a proper debate is when two people discuss difering veiws atempting to both learn and teach, when i dont understand someone i try to learn from them, and i would like to have a real discusion with a christian because i dont fully understand them. But all the ones ive talked to just get mad and say im ataking them. It all comes from how we find difering veiws ofensive, because we consider it an insult to say we are wrong. I admit that even in my efforts to become more openminded i am often wrong, i often fail to consider new ideas because they dont fit with the things i already think, but im trying.

I really dont care if someone belives anything they want, it is when it causes anger that bothers me. Any belife can cause anger. I even heard some people screaming about weather the sky is blue because thats the color of nitrogen or because thats the color of water vapor. Religeon just causes many more problems because unlike that argument neither side can ever be proven. Because any religeon that can easily be disproven no longer exists, thats probably why all that remain are based on faith without proof.

by the way im aware i made some spelling, grammar, and puntuation errors, i guess that makes my theological and philisophical points invalid.

[Kharakov]

I have never seen you write with such aggression. You must be really ticked off. Or, is it really sarcastic?Sometimes, I get in a joking mood. Hopefully I don't horrify those around me with my humor (it is pretty deep).

This has confirmed and solidified my stance that logic and science cannot and do not explain our life completely, and I feel never will.Technically, if a mind can comprehend God and the scientific method, that mind should be able to find evidence of God. However, as a) God does not like to be proven, but prefers a modicum of decorum and privacy in action; and b) God is intelligent and powerful enough to keep many of God's actions in the background; it doesn't seem very likely, unless there is a point in time that God has set to take off the clothes, I mean, gloves.

[saffronfrancisburnet]

those who come here to preach religeon, which seems to be most of you. Dont you realize that your faith is best practiced as a personal thing. When you come here to push it on people who don't agree with you, you are meerly trying to reasure yourself. It would be a healthy endeavor of exploration if you listened for new ideas, but since you do it with the mind set that you are the enlightened teacher and we are all wrong there is no reason for you to be here. If you are truely right then i sugest you spend a lot of time truely contemplating your religeon, if it is the truth and you focus on it hard enough and gain a REAL understanding of it, then you would not need to write for so long, because one who knew what was the way to the truth and had followed that way for a long time would be able to see what those who were on the right path needed, and to the ones who needed you to intervine, you would only need to say a few words.
The asumption that we are atheists and agnostics as an oposit to your perticular religeon is unobjective. They are not relative to any faith. For some thats what it becomes, but really it is just admitting that you don't know, many agnostics even study a religeon or atend services of it. for many of you i think your anger grows not from frustration that you cannot save them, i think that is an excuse you make to yourself. It grows from the fear you feel, when you think about someone who does not belive as you do and feel a weakness, one you probably deny, and that causes you fear, which causes you anger. If you could get one of us to actually see what you tell yourself you see, then it would reafirm you, but sadly, when someone does on rare ocation "awaken" it is the same sort of giving in in the guise of joyful realization that you felt, and you are not satisfied, you have onl gained a fellow seeker of reasurance.
I have under pressure from so many belivers, and as a fair chance to myself if it held something as so many promised, read the entire bible with an open mind, fully considering that this amazing thing they spoke of was true, and atended church, in many places of many denominations. I learned a few things about human nature, but mostly i just saw how people can reasure others while reasuring themselfs, so forming a mob mentality and turing real fear into psudo joy. For you it may mean something and we have heard your peice, it is fine by me that you come here, but doing so and looking down on us only hurts your case, because by being supirior, you are not practicing what you claim to belive.
At the base of the issue is this, discussing or arguing can only give a true atheist new ideas, but they are not light switches, you cannot "change them" you can only add to themeven if i met god in person i would see no need to become religeous, i would belive in god then, but what diference would that make but that i would posses another bit of information?
hi there
true all preach all choose to tell
because all want to connect..to something and someone..

personal beliefs are for ourselves but follows
will pass on what they feel helps them from one human to the next we
all tell.....its in our natures...like most things
and to force religion beliefs also is part of this . the side of misunderstandings
about what one person needs to the next....this i dont agree with
no one should be forced to believe anything.......

to discuss what we feel about religion helps us to grow
what ever we believe or not
both sides are formed together for one reason
only the choice..

i agree religion can keep people down in the mind but
if they choose to do this then it is their reason
like science theirs another reason
the balance......
love n peace from saff
i enjoyed reading what you wrote...

[Kharakov]

by the way im aware i made some spelling, grammar, and puntuation errors, i guess that makes my theological and philisophical points invalid.Hey, your argument isn't logical. Whether or not your premises (assumed or otherwise) are correct and your arguments formed logically determines the validity of your conclusions. ;p

[Kharakov]

people who dont have a good reason to be angry always make fun of spelling errors, you did it twice.You are right. I wasn't angry. :)
They all seem to be pretending that they aren't angry and afraid, that they are simply supirior and that they do it because they enjoy making people mad, or because they like the atention.I think I like to make people mad, but in a good way.

As for your math teacher coment, Many children don't want to learn essential lessons "what the hell am I gonna use math fur anywho?". My point was, children have misconceptions about learning concepts (the most common one is "I don't need to learn this concept") like math or spiritual thought.

[Kharakov]

Owned.Of course. :p

[BlackGuardXIII]

Hey, your argument isn't logical. Whether or not your premises (assumed or otherwise) are correct and your arguments formed logically determines the validity of your conclusions. ;p
and this is different than your posts becuz.............?

[WhisperingWoods]

logic and science cannot and do not explain our life completely
Well, scientists are starting to discover true metaphysics and they've been running tests for a while now.. The metaphysical world and science are melding into one conciousness. Hopefully they will publicize whatever they find--I really doubt they will if they are successful. The public is too closed minded to digest most topics.

[Defence_mechanism]

logic and science cannot and do not explain our life completely
id entirely agree with this statement, though im still an atheist. it's not logical to say watching the sunset makes me feel more lovely than laughing at a tv show... but it's true. i cannot explain life, but i can feel it, without having the need to believe in god :)

by the way im aware i made some spelling, grammar, and puntuation errors, i guess that makes my theological and philisophical points invalid.
not at all!! though spelling and grammar mistakes annoy me :P i might be the only one apart from hikaru here that agrees with you, but i think what you're saying is very well-founded. i often feel patronised by people who come in here trying to "teach" us what life is about. im sorry, but i have my own beliefs, and i'll not change from being an atheist unless i come to a conclusion by myself.

[Razorofoccam]

id entirely agree with this statement, though im still an atheist. it's not logical to say watching the sunset makes me feel more lovely than laughing at a tv show... but it's true. i cannot explain life, but i can feel it, without having the need to believe in god :)
Defence_Mechanism

Now how are you different to occam?

Because at the end of your statement..occam would have said
"with only the desire to believe what IS."

There is NO requirement to believe in god
Just as there is no requirement not to believe.

This is called free will
A thing some say does not exist...

Those that say we must believe in god say it cause THEY do...
And thus..so must everyone else.
And
Those that say there is no god...
Cannot prove a negative...
It is not rationally,physically or logically possible.

The middle road..the path of reason....

WE DO NOT KNOW.

Occam

[Pablo]

thats exactly it we dont know, thats why all this arguing is futile, both people who say they know there is no god and people who claim they know there is one try to argue their point by showing that you cant prove the other, obviously you can prove neither, i dont stick to either side, but i dont spend too much time contemplating god because it is such a specific concept that even if there is something that could be called god its very unlikely that it fits such a narrow idea. And thats what i go by, percived probability. Chistians say that that is too cold of logic and that god is something more, well i never said i only folow logic, i follow my perception, thats what ive got. and i just see religeon as a bunch of people beliving what they as a group want to belive. Its ok but i see no need to be part of it.

[Razorofoccam]

thats exactly it we dont know, thats why all this arguing is futile, both people who say they know there is no god and people who claim they know there is one try to argue their point by showing that you cant prove the other, obviously you can prove neither, i dont stick to either side, but i dont spend too much time contemplating god because it is such a specific concept that even if there is something that could be called god its very unlikely that it fits such a narrow idea. And thats what i go by, percived probability. Chistians say that that is too cold of logic and that god is something more, well i never said i only folow logic, i follow my perception, thats what ive got. and i just see religeon as a bunch of people beliving what they as a group want to belive. Its ok but i see no need to be part of it.
Pablo

And occam deos not need to be part of it either..

Religion is a social group
Not a way to understanding.

Religion is a path to resolve questions...quickly and easily
What is god
Religion tells you what god is
Why are we here..
Religion tells you why.

Religion is the EASY answer.
An answer that sounds good..But is not actually connected to reality.

Reality sees no christian or islamic god...
Anywhere

Occam

[thumontico]

Their desire has never been to conform to reality. Reality is harsh, I suppose...
The idea of religion is to set up a belief and doctrine, then say reality is molded around the religion, not the other way around in which some 'heathens' would call logic. Then when people begin to question why the religion suddenly contradicts itself with reality, they insist you must make a leap of faith to understand. So essentially blind yourself through faith.

But can The Occam blame them? Why are they doing it? You are right its easier, it would be nice to live after death, I guess... But shall I exist apart from society knowing, and allow others to be blind and ever defending there blindness in a futile attempt to live after death? No, I feel the need to tell you that you are wasting your life, you are living through ERRONEOUS principles.

So, Yes Occam you can. Blame them, question them, expose falicy. Will it make a difference? Will people cower in the face of inevitability. I don't, so its possibles others won't, I suppose.

I (operative: 'I') prefer living a life authentically and rationally and in the end dying and ceasing to exist all together. Opposed to living inauthentically, erroneously, believing I am divinely proclaimed special, to live on after death... then in the end finding myself unconscious indefinately.

[Razorofoccam]

Their desire has never been to conform to reality. Reality is harsh, I suppose...
The idea of religion is to set up a belief and doctrine, then say reality is molded around the religion, not the other way around in which some 'heathens' would call logic. Then when people begin to question why the religion suddenly contradicts itself with reality, they insist you must make a leap of faith to understand. So essentially blind yourself through faith.

But can The Occam blame them? Why are they doing it? You are right its easier, it would be nice to live after death, I guess... But shall I exist apart from society knowing, and allow others to be blind and ever defending there blindness in a futile attempt to live after death? No, I feel the need to tell you that you are wasting your life, you are living through ERRONEOUS principles.

So, Yes Occam you can. Blame them, question them, expose falicy. Will it make a difference? Will people cower in the face of inevitability. I don't, so its possibles others won't, I suppose.

I (operative: 'I') prefer living a life authentically and rationally and in the end dying and ceasing to exist all together. Opposed to living inauthentically, erroneously, believing I am divinely proclaimed special, to live on after death... then in the end finding myself unconscious indefinately.
Thumontico

Yes..reality is harsh,
So what..Should thinking beings be absolved of thinking
Because it is hard to do...?
Reality is what it is...
And it will always be only what it is
Independant of what we wish it to be

How do you speak here?

Science. A thing beaten out of humanity by enviromental pressure.
Evolution.

Occam

[thumontico]

I agree with you Occam

I say, I suppose reality is harsh because people obviously create mindsets (religion, erroneous beliefs) to ease the pain of reality. Reality is not harsh to me. Reality is nothing necessarily, it is what it is.

[Razorofoccam]

Their desire has never been to conform to reality. Reality is harsh, I suppose...
The idea of religion is to set up a belief and doctrine, then say reality is molded around the religion, not the other way around in which some 'heathens' would call logic. Then when people begin to question why the religion suddenly contradicts itself with reality, they insist you must make a leap of faith to understand. So essentially blind yourself through faith.

But can The Occam blame them? Why are they doing it? You are right its easier, it would be nice to live after death, I guess... But shall I exist apart from society knowing, and allow others to be blind and ever defending there blindness in a futile attempt to live after death? No, I feel the need to tell you that you are wasting your life, you are living through ERRONEOUS principles.

So, Yes Occam you can. Blame them, question them, expose falicy. Will it make a difference? Will people cower in the face of inevitability. I don't, so its possibles others won't, I suppose.

I (operative: 'I') prefer living a life authentically and rationally and in the end dying and ceasing to exist all together. Opposed to living inauthentically, erroneously, believing I am divinely proclaimed special, to live on after death... then in the end finding myself unconscious indefinately.
Thumontico

Occam does not exist apart from society
You suggest he does because you think occam thinks they[society]are blind and stupid. [the religious people]

Occam thinks no such thing.

ALL people are equal.. in their inherent right to exist.
And to believe what ever thay wish.

If occam thought religious people were stupid..
Would he talk to them?
Why
to convert them? To what point..earthly power...
What a crock
THAT is why most religious people talk to occam .. because they think he is stupid...
And can be converted to a invalid belief system..

And that is exactly why they argue for a few days ..then stop...
For they run into a wall,
A wall of reason and logic that they cannot surmount.
This wall is called reason.
It defines.
for us.
What is
and
What is not.

Occam has me personally..thousands that have no method...
Their method is anything society says it is
IS THIS A WAY OF LIFE?
A PATH?

Why do you not step off a cliff...reason
NOT faith in god
Why do you trust a 747 to get you to a place 6000 KM away in 10
hours
You trust ...REASON.
Human reason ..to understand reality...

SO MANY OF US SPOUT SHIT ABOUT REASON BEING FALSE.
THE thing that brings you understanding
A bloody easy life
Minimalls full of goods.
Sports cars
Movies
Condoms
Big back yards
Supercomputers
Nations
ALL A PRODUCT OF REASON

Liars. Indulgent liars...laggards and
HIPPOCRITES.
IGNORANCE...The lack of understanding
A product of no rational method

You say reason is false..yet you do so with the technology of reason.
If it is false ...then why does your PC work?

You CAN speak to occam with THE EXACT RESULT OF REASON
Yet you say it is false...


Occam


You might ask why occam presses the point of rational method,
it is because YOU SAID
"Occam is living his life by erroneous principles"

You base this on what method to understanding...???
What principles?
Your desires?
Yes...
Your truth..is truth

Occams truth,,is what he calls truth at this time.
Determined by a method...
That allows 'the definition of truth'
To change
Determined by real phenomena

Not the words of the slick and wasted.

[roly]

those who come here to preach religeon, which seems to be most of you. Dont you realize that your faith is best practiced as a personal thing. When you come here to push it on people who don't agree with you, you are meerly trying to reasure yourself. It would be a healthy endeavor of exploration if you listened for new ideas, but since you do it with the mind set that you are the enlightened teacher and we are all wrong there is no reason for you to be here. If you are truely right then i sugest you spend a lot of time truely contemplating your religeon, if it is the truth and you focus on it hard enough and gain a REAL understanding of it, then you would not need to write for so long, because one who knew what was the way to the truth and had followed that way for a long time would be able to see what those who were on the right path needed, and to the ones who needed you to intervine, you would only need to say a few words.
The asumption that we are atheists and agnostics as an oposit to your perticular religeon is unobjective. They are not relative to any faith. For some thats what it becomes, but really it is just admitting that you don't know, many agnostics even study a religeon or atend services of it. for many of you i think your anger grows not from frustration that you cannot save them, i think that is an excuse you make to yourself. It grows from the fear you feel, when you think about someone who does not belive as you do and feel a weakness, one you probably deny, and that causes you fear, which causes you anger. If you could get one of us to actually see what you tell yourself you see, then it would reafirm you, but sadly, when someone does on rare ocation "awaken" it is the same sort of giving in in the guise of joyful realization that you felt, and you are not satisfied, you have onl gained a fellow seeker of reasurance.
I have under pressure from so many belivers, and as a fair chance to myself if it held something as so many promised, read the entire bible with an open mind, fully considering that this amazing thing they spoke of was true, and atended church, in many places of many denominations. I learned a few things about human nature, but mostly i just saw how people can reasure others while reasuring themselfs, so forming a mob mentality and turing real fear into psudo joy. For you it may mean something and we have heard your peice, it is fine by me that you come here, but doing so and looking down on us only hurts your case, because by being supirior, you are not practicing what you claim to belive.
At the base of the issue is this, discussing or arguing can only give a true atheist new ideas, but they are not light switches, you cannot "change them" you can only add to themeven if i met god in person i would see no need to become religeous, i would belive in god then, but what diference would that make but that i would posses another bit of information?


As religious people we are called to both have an intimate relationship and to spread it to...so saying that its best personal isnt strictly true. And we get loads of non religious people in our part of the forum trying to punch holes in our faith and religion so why cant we explore your part? *coughfree speechcough*

Much love, Roly.xxx

[roly]

Pablo

And occam deos not need to be part of it either..

Religion is a social group
Not a way to understanding.

Religion is a path to resolve questions...quickly and easily
What is god
Religion tells you what god is
Why are we here..
Religion tells you why.

Religion is the EASY answer.
An answer that sounds good..But is not actually connected to reality.

Reality sees no christian or islamic god...
Anywhere

Occam

religion doesn't tell me what God is...the only way i can find that out is having a relationship with him...just like i do with anyone else...i could live my whole life and never kno him fully. i'm cool with that tho...cuz when i go to heaven i shall be rid of earthly knowledge, gain heavenly mindset and know God fully...and i cant wait til that glorious hour :D

Roly.xxx

p.s what with all the Occam proposes...? just makes u sound pretentious....

[thumontico]

Apart from society in that I am looking to society from a different mindset. Meant only as such.

I appologize that you wrote all of that prompted by misinterpretation(assumably). That was not directed at the Occam....

Those of whom I was catagorizing, those living by erroneous principles, are living by idealisms that do not, as Sartre said, allow a "full freedom of involvement". Truth and reason are simply more efficient than falacy.

[thumontico]

religion doesn't tell me what God is...the only way i can find that out is having a relationship with him...just like i do with anyone else...i could live my whole life and never kno him fully. i'm cool with that tho...cuz when i go to heaven i shall be rid of earthly knowledge, gain heavenly mindset and know God fully...and i cant wait til that glorious hour :D

Roly.xxx

p.s what with all the Occam proposes...? just makes u sound pretentious....
What makes you think you will "gain heavenly mindset and know God fully" when you reach heaven? For that matter, why do you think you will go somewhere when you die?

Occam is probably his god, or perhaps a labeled principle of some sort. I don't think he is Occam.

[BlackGuardXIII]

Well, scientists are starting to discover true metaphysics and they've been running tests for a while now.. The metaphysical world and science are melding into one conciousness. Hopefully they will publicize whatever they find--I really doubt they will if they are successful. The public is too closed minded to digest most topics.
I agree about the closed mindedness of most people. Skeptics all.

Don't worry, they would not be able to keep it secret long. These things have a way of leaking out. The chaos theory, and Heisenberg uncertainty principle tend to confirm that scientific explanation have their limits. Whether these can be surmounted remains to be seen, but I wont hold my breath.

[Razorofoccam]

Apart from society in that I am looking to society from a different mindset. Meant only as such.

I appologize that you wrote all of that prompted by misinterpretation(assumably). That was not directed at the Occam....

Those of whom I was catagorizing, those living by erroneous principles, are living by idealisms that do not, as Sartre said, allow a "full freedom of involvement". Truth and reason are simply more efficient than falacy.
Thummontico

Yes it was... [directed at 'the' occam..whatever that is]
Your post on page 3 says to Occam
"i need to tell you you are wasting your life."

It takes a lot of arrogance to say that...
Occam has never said that to anyone...
And he admits arrogance in hinself.

Occam

[thumontico]

I thought it was very clear that I was not addressing you. I stated before, and will once again, that I was refering to those who ascribe to religion.

Hence, "Those of whom I was catagorizing, those living by erroneous principles, are living by idealisms that do not, as Sartre said, allow a "full freedom of involvement". Truth and reason are simply more efficient than fallacy."

"But can The Occam blame them?" is the same as a question into whether I can blame or criticize the religious.

It seems that your ego has clouded your perception.