Evolution

[Razorofoccam]

Is the way 'God' creates.

Thus..The entire issue is a moot point...
A matter of time scales...

WHO KNOWS that 'god' did not set 'our' reality in motion with a PLAN
To result in humans on earth.

Religion suggests god snapped his wisened fingers and 'poof'
adam and eve...
Anthropomorphism
"The act of attributing human forms or qualities to entities which are not human."

Occam suggests that..NO human has had more than the most fleeting glimps of such a direction of reality.

And states again
As the most harmonious with the principle of parsimony..

That rational understanding of evolutionary theory
And religious description of creation...

Are two perspectives on the same phenomena.

Occam

[Razorofoccam]

Two perspectives full of holes.
Niether is accurate....As we well know.

Lets toss the ball

[Kharakov]

Two perspectives full of holes.
Niether is accurate....As we well know.

Lets toss the ballI think you will find that most balls have holes in them. (there are exceptions, but consider the number of ping pong balls in existence, more people play beer pong and this game uses up tons of balls due to drunkeness- thus the high demand for ping pong balls).

How about the perspective that God has a save game point at 4000 bc.

---or---

The evolutionary nature of thought is taught outside of ourselves in the physical world.

[mother_nature's_son]

"The notion that somebody literally made the world-- that is what is known as artificialism. It is the child's way of thinking: The table is made, so somebody made the table. The world is here, so somebody must have made it. There is another point of view involving emanation and precipitation without personification. A sound precipitates air, then fire, then water and earth-- and that's how the world becomes. The whole universe is included in this first sound, this vibration, which then commits all things to fragmentation in the field of time. In this view, there is not someone outside who said, 'Let it happen'". -Joseph Campbell

[Kharakov]

"There is another point of view involving emanation and precipitation without personification. A sound precipitates air, then fire, then water and earth-- and that's how the world becomes. The whole universe is included in this first sound, this vibration, which then commits all things to fragmentation in the field of time. In this view, there is not someone outside who said, 'Let it happen'". -Joseph Campbell lol.
Unintentional universe theory.

[mother_nature's_son]

...okay.

[Razorofoccam]

I think you will find that most balls have holes in them. (there are exceptions, but consider the number of ping pong balls in existence, more people play beer pong and this game uses up tons of balls due to drunkeness- thus the high demand for ping pong balls).

How about the perspective that God has a save game point at 4000 bc.

---or---

The evolutionary nature of thought is taught outside of ourselves in the physical world.
Kharakov
1:
So if we dont work out how HE WANTS...he can RELOAD?

Occams Life..And the LIFE of humanity..And all life...
Is more than the whim of a higher being.

If you wish to be a slave....so be it.

2:
As is the evolutionary nature of the physical world. Which underpins thought.

Occam

[Soulless||Chaos]

Or you could just call evolution god... 'twould amount to about the same... :rolleyes:

[BlackGuardXIII]

Or you could just call evolution god... 'twould amount to about the same... :rolleyes:
cept for all the miracles and shit we keep blathering on about to no avail.

[Kharakov]

So if we dont work out how HE WANTS...he can RELOAD?
lol
If you wish to be a slave....so be it."In bizarro world, the slave is the master." Comic book guy (voice).

[BlackGuardXIII]

lol
"In bizarro world, the slave is the master." Comic book guy (voice).
[/color][/font]
to me, Lao-Tzu was very accurate when he said ' the best leaders lead from behind. ' Jesus served, which is the best way to lead.
So in my world, the slave is the master.

In bizarro world, there are slaves. period

[WhisperingWoods]

Human psychology and neurology are at a point right now where they know for a fact that the mind's need for religious closure is a part of the brain that is supposed to build hope and keep you alive longer. ..Hence you will never learn truth until you deliberately seek it. People will, for the most part, believe that there is a higher power whether it is there or not. Think about that.

I'm not saying anything either way, but you guys need to do more research and post less on the subject.

[Razorofoccam]

Human psychology and neurology are at a point right now where they know for a fact that the mind's need for religious closure is a part of the brain that is supposed to build hope and keep you alive longer. ..Hence you will never learn truth until you deliberately seek it. People will, for the most part, believe that there is a higher power whether it is there or not. Think about that.

I'm not saying anything either way, but you guys need to do more research and post less on the subject. WhisperingWoods

Human psychology and neurology knows no such thing.. [as fact]
The mind 'may' need closure...

But WHO SAYS it must be religious?

Occam thinks there may be direction..[a higher power]

But he is not ignorant enought to say he knows what that is..

Is that not agnosticism?

As to doing more research
How do you know how much others have done?
Occam has been reading on the topic for 3 decades.

Occam

[Razorofoccam]

to me, Lao-Tzu was very accurate when he said ' the best leaders lead from behind. ' Jesus served, which is the best way to lead.
So in my world, the slave is the master.

In bizarro world, there are slaves. period BlackGuard.

There are no salves and masters...There are only humans.

The descriptions of what we think are human ones...
Not real phenomena...

There is no slavery in reality...
It. like beauty and justice.
Are words to define human concepts...

Occam

[WhisperingWoods]

Oops mis-type, I didn't mean for a fact literally. They have done tests and received plenty of data that shows increased activity in a specific part of the brain during prayer (to god of choice by devout religious people), zen meditation, etc, etc.

I have no internet sources. Dont discount this because of it though... try a google search for the written document. I saw this on the discovery channel! ;)

[mother_nature's_son]

About the brain and spiritual experiences: "Activity in the amygdala, which monitors the environment for threats and registers fear, must be damped. Parietal-lobe circuits, which orient you in space and mark the sharp distinction between self and world, must go quiet. Frontal- and temporal-lobe circuits, which mark time and generate self-awareness, must disengage."
exerpt from: http://www.shinzen.org/shinsub2/_disc1/0000003c.htm


What I find most interesting about spiritual experiences and the human brain is that enlightenment transcends religious boundaries. Whether god created our brains or our brains created god, one thing remains sure-- that the experience of god is endemic to human nature. The origin of god, for all peoples, is the same. Religions are all separate branches of the same tree.

[Razorofoccam]

mother_nature's_son
Whether god created our brains or our brains created god, one thing remains sure-- that the experience of god is endemic to human nature.

Mother Natures Son

False..
Occam has not experienced god.
He has experienced much..but nothing called god.
He experiences reality...
Is that what you speak of?

Is reality..god...?
Then why does religion and science disagree?
Because religion is contradiction
And science is the method to resolve contradiction

Occam

[mother_nature's_son]

Occam,

Yes, reality is what I speak of.

Religion becomes a contradiction when people interpret its symbolism as fact. Otherwise, religion and science are not mutually exclusive entities.

'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.' -Albert Einstein

[Spiritforces]

I think people can interpret symbolism of their life without making it a weird religion.

It's even maybe a key to discover how magic are all ur living slice of time.

(didn't meant to teach to anybody)


If once you seek enlightenment,
stop defining it as being somewhere,
not in u, or in other being
in u, or not in other being

It's just there

Umm forget that thing


Choose when to recognize as being true those symbols with others,
is the most exciting part of my life.

To play or not to play?
But still honest and experiencing. With who?


Could one feel deprived? Could I answer I am tired?

[mother_nature's_son]

Symbolism can be applied to one's life in great ways...
It can be very beneficial for growing spiritually, for learning...
But factual interpretations are like poison...
They contaminate the mind... with the illusion of an absolute truth that can be written down and spoken...
Such truth does not exist for mankind... and never will...
Truth can only be experienced... subjectively...
Through quieting the mind that will never have all the answers...
Through tuning into the vibration of the universe... of god...

[Razorofoccam]

Symbolism can be applied to one's life in great ways...
It can be very beneficial for growing spiritually, for learning...
But factual interpretations are like poison...
They contaminate the mind... with the illusion of an absolute truth that can be written down and spoken...
Such truth does not exist for mankind... and never will...
Truth can only be experienced... subjectively...
Through quieting the mind that will never have all the answers...
Through tuning into the vibration of the universe... of god...
MNS

Or life..IS symbolism.
Conceptual sympolism...

Facts are what we call the laws of reality....
Subjectively there is only one fact..'I reason therefore i exist'
But we agree with eathothers descriptions to come to a temporary agreement.
That agreement is science.

Occam

[BlackGuardXIII]

MNS

Or life..IS symbolism.
Conceptual sympolism...

Facts are what we call the laws of reality....
Subjectively there is only one fact..'I reason therefore i exist'
But we agree with eathothers descriptions to come to a temporary agreement.
That agreement is science.

Occam
Occam, this is not just to be contrary, it is my honest feeling. What about when the establishment that is the present scientific hierarchy ignores, or worse yet, hides evidence that is contrary to their theories?
I say this cuz I have seen it happen more than once. Some egos are too big to allow their lifes work to be proved wrong, and so they put up obstacles to stop such findings from being heard.
This is my only problem with science, and I like one scientists definition of science which was that it is a religion where everyone has there own theory.
Science is a truly amazing and necessary thing, but it is only as strong as the people who promote it.
Certain scientific theories taught today in universities worldwide are provably wrong, as far as I can tell, and the proof is abundant. This is a shame, yet it is no reflection on scientific theory, but more a reflection of human weakness.

Also, I have seen much that science would state is impossible. It is not the answer to all, to me, and has its limitations, and its place in our world.

[Razorofoccam]

Occam, this is not just to be contrary, it is my honest feeling. What about when the establishment that is the present scientific hierarchy ignores, or worse yet, hides evidence that is contrary to their theories?
I say this cuz I have seen it happen more than once. Some egos are too big to allow their lifes work to be proved wrong, and so they put up obstacles to stop such findings from being heard.
This is my only problem with science, and I like one scientists definition of science which was that it is a religion where everyone has there own theory.
Science is a truly amazing and necessary thing, but it is only as strong as the people who promote it.
Certain scientific theories taught today in universities worldwide are provably wrong, as far as I can tell, and the proof is abundant. This is a shame, yet it is no reflection on scientific theory, but more a reflection of human weakness.

Also, I have seen much that science would state is impossible. It is not the answer to all, to me, and has its limitations, and its place in our world.
Blackguard...

Sorry. Occam words his posts with a slant to his perspective...
So hard to shake. His mistake.

Science is not your reason.
Or occams.
It is a name for our group effort as reasoning beings.
To understand reality.

When he says science,,,he means the method..not the organisation.


Occam

[BlackGuardXIII]

Blackguard...

Sorry. Occam words his posts with a slant to his perspective...
So hard to shake. His mistake.

Science is not your reason.
Or occams.
It is a name for our group effort as reasoning beings.
To understand reality.

When he says science,,,he means the method..not the organisation.


Occam
You mean I wrote all that drivel for naught? Oh well, at least we agree, and I now understand your intended meaning.

[Razorofoccam]

You mean I wrote all that drivel for naught? Oh well, at least we agree, and I now understand your intended meaning.
Blackguard

Your 'drivel' was quite eloquent. And pointed..
Organised science..the beuraucracy is corrupt and inefficient..
Like any human organisation..

Occam

[BlackGuardXIII]

Blackguard

Your 'drivel' was quite eloquent. And pointed..
Organised science..the beuraucracy is corrupt and inefficient..
Like any human organisation..

Occam
thank you,
you are too kind.

I have always found your posts to be well thought out and well written. And it doesn't hurt that I nearly always find that I agree with the content.

Namaste

[Razorofoccam]

I see the bible as written by man, through God, but man could only comprehend so much, espeacially 1000's of years ago, so it would make sence that when man asked God, "Where did it all come from?" God gave a simple answer for his level of comprehension, then from that point, what he has written done in the bible, is really his perception of what God told him.

It took God billions of years just start on his project of building man!
Midnight...

If you mean it took billions of years to start 'the project of building man'
From he beginning of life ,, or the beginning of this contiguous reality.
Then occam agrees to both...
It appears that some 14 billion years back our reality thrust itself into being. [or was thrust,, by a higher reality . As our reality thrusts 'black hole mass' out of our universe...to where?]
3 billion years ago the stellar systems that evolved by natural law.
Resulted in a primal earth.

Some 1.5 billion years back.
Self replacating systems took hold of this earth.

Today..We self replacating self aware conscious beings.
Ponder this.

And occam ponders.. Deducts...That such a chain of process may be wholely the result of 'the rules of reality'
But were the rules 'made so'
Or did they too..evolve...

Oh dear..infinite regression again..

Occam

[BlackGuardXIII]

Midnight...

If you mean it took billions of years to start 'the project of building man'
From he beginning of life ,, or the beginning of this contiguous reality.
Then occam agrees to both...
It appears that some 14 billion years back our reality thrust itself into being. [or was thrust,, by a higher reality . As our reality thrusts 'black hole mass' out of our universe...to where?]
3 billion years ago the stellar systems that evolved by natural law.
Resulted in a primal earth.

Some 1.5 billion years back.
Self replacating systems took hold of this earth.

Today..We self replacating self aware conscious beings.
Ponder this.

And occam ponders.. Deducts...That such a chain of process may be wholely the result of 'the rules of reality'
But were the rules 'made so'
Or did they too..evolve...

Oh dear..infinite regression again..

Occam
I am stuck at the point where the minerals, water, heat, and motion fluke out RNA. that is less likely than those elements fluking out a formula one race car, which is many times less complex, is it not?

According to big bang theorists, the forces have evolved but this 'evolution' might be better labelled disintegrated. and the majority of it happened within the first millionths of a second.

[BlackGuardXIII]

I see the bible as written by man, through God, but man could only comprehend so much, espeacially 1000's of years ago, so it would make sence that when man asked God, "Where did it all come from?" God gave a simple answer for his level of comprehension, then from that point, what he has written done in the bible, is really his perception of what God told him.

It took God billions of years just start on his project of building man!

Iohanna 1:1? the instructor guesses, and the test supports...

Buddhism advises not to waste time in these pursuits, as the answers are beyond our limited comprehension.

I will only say that I propose that the Spirit, when creating, had to use, and abide by, the limitations of the natural laws of the universe.

[TrippinBTM]

Life is change. Existence itself is constant flux. Seasons change. Mountains rise, then fall. Continents shift, slam into one another, then pull apart. We know the DNA molecule changes too. Why would species, as determined by their DNA, not change? Why would they be the one thing in the universe that doesn't change? It is a ridiculous concept hardly even worth consideration, given how contrary it is to the nature of things.

On a lighter note, my cousin said something the other day at work that struck me. He said "Did God kill of the dinosaurs so we could be here? Cuz that sucks, because that means he got bored with them, and wanted a new toy. So basically, we're doomed." Funny, yet deep. :)

[TrippinBTM]

3 billion years ago the stellar systems that evolved by natural law.
Resulted in a primal earth.

Some 1.5 billion years back.
Self replacating systems took hold of this earth.

Occam
Your timing's off. Earth and the Sun formed ~4.6 billion years ago, and our earliest fossil evidence of life (what you call 'self replicating systems') are ~3.6 billion years old. Otherwise, I agree.

[BlackGuardXIII]

Life is change. Existence itself is constant flux. Seasons change. Mountains rise, then fall. Continents shift, slam into one another, then pull apart. We know the DNA molecule changes too. Why would species, as determined by their DNA, not change? Why would they be the one thing in the universe that doesn't change? It is a ridiculous concept hardly even worth consideration, given how contrary it is to the nature of things.

On a lighter note, my cousin said something the other day at work that struck me. He said "Did God kill of the dinosaurs so we could be here? Cuz that sucks, because that means he got bored with them, and wanted a new toy. So basically, we're doomed." Funny, yet deep. :)
I have seen pictures of human footprints beside dinosaur tracks in rock. I feel that the time period you mention since the first life is long enough that we could have been this technologically advanced and then wiped out ten times by now.
And then, the everchanging, adaptation feature of life would bring us back.

[Razorofoccam]

Your timing's off. Earth and the Sun formed ~4.6 billion years ago, and our earliest fossil evidence of life (what you call 'self replicating systems') are ~3.6 billion years old. Otherwise, I agree.
Trippin

Thankyou for the timely update on the dates.

But the important word in your post is 'formed'

You exactly express science...
Accuracy..without the desire to know WHY.

Or do you?

Occam

[mother_nature's_son]

Or life..IS symbolism.
Conceptual sympolism...

Facts are what we call the laws of reality....
Subjectively there is only one fact..'I reason therefore i exist'
But we agree with eathothers descriptions to come to a temporary agreement.
That agreement is science.
Yes, science is symbolism as well. We can form facts with it, but to interpret these facts as the only source of understanding, one closes many doors. Many become so distracted by the external that their internal source of truth dries up, and the value of being evaporates with it...

blessings

[mother_nature's_son]

I have seen pictures of human footprints beside dinosaur tracks in rock.
If you are referring to the Paluxy River site (most touted in regard to geologic inconsistency) it has been subject to much controversy and, as far as I've read, since been discredited.

[BlackGuardXIII]

If you are referring to the Paluxy River site (most touted in regard to geologic inconsistency) it has been subject to much controversy and, as far as I've read, since been discredited.

The book "Forbidden Archeology" is full of them, and that is just one.
They all get discredited, and the finders get blacklisted, and defamed by their peers. The actual evidence gets 'taken care of'. Every time.
I guess these are all just hoaxes, and the folks whose careers, characters, and futures were destroyed, made a big error in trying to fool us, huh?
I have seen too many examples to believe that. The finds contradict present textbooks, and would cause too much trouble if actually displayed and left for all to see and judge.
Imagine the rewrites, the theories needing revision, the professors whose books would be obsolete.
That is just my view, not fact.

[Rar1013]

In my theory evolution and GOD go together in perfect harmony..therefore I belive in both...

[BlackGuardXIII]

In my theory evolution and GOD go together in perfect harmony..therefore I belive in both...
worx 4 me

[Razorofoccam]

Yes, science is symbolism as well. We can form facts with it, but to interpret these facts as the only source of understanding, one closes many doors. Many become so distracted by the external that their internal source of truth dries up, and the value of being evaporates with it...

blessings
Ah

What are facts?
Occam said that 'information' is the source of understanding.
And that some understanding may be 'fact'

Factuality results from understanding..And IS understanding.

How can occam be distracted by th external by believing the only
method to understanding reality..Both internal and external.
Is the ballance of reason and emotion in human minds.?
That our current situation of 98% emotion and 2% reason
Is a worthy thing to perpetuate.
Emotion and greed/power run this planet...
And we all know it.

You take the cliched line that occam is a tool of blind reason
through science, thus lacking in some inner perspective of spirit..

False...Occam only asks that we all behave as reasonable beings.
And that 'includes' being a 'spiritual being'

All the best

Occam

[stealthsheep]

Certain scientific theories taught today in universities worldwide are provably wrong, as far as I can tell, and the proof is abundant. This is a shame, yet it is no reflection on scientific theory, but more a reflection of human weakness.

Not strictly true, many of these theories are "lies to children", simple examples being 'the Earth is shaped like a sphere' or 'light travels in waves'. Neither are strictly true, nor are they striclty untrue.

[stealthsheep]

According to big bang theorists, the forces have evolved but this 'evolution' might be better labelled disintegrated. and the majority of it happened within the first millionths of a second.
According to theory, in the beggining, we were all just a big bunch of stuff. Acoording to theory (entropy), we will all end up as a big bunch of stuff.

What if the idea of a creator follows this?
The creator was the original bunch of stuff, incredibly complex whilst also incredibly simple, evolved to where we are now and will continue to evolve until it fits into an entirely stable universe.

[Razorofoccam]

Not strictly true, many of these theories are "lies to children", simple examples being 'the Earth is shaped like a sphere' or 'light travels in waves'. Neither are strictly true, nor are they striclty untrue.
Stealth...

True..The earth is not a sphere..It is spherical.
Light acts as both wave and particle..at the same time. [observer]

Children are taught 'general understanding' in a system that exists to do nothing else.
It has little depth..
If kids want to know more they pick physics. Then, they will get more depth on the issue.
Or even better..look it up for themselves.

Occam

[BlackGuardXIII]

I agree with the two examples, and 'oblate spheroid' is the best term for earths shape I have heard.


My post was more about certain historical events that I find highly unlikely, if not provably false. The last ice age, the bering migration story, the age of the Sphinx, etc.
These subjects are taught to be one way, and I find the basic premises of that way are all very dubious conclusions, in my view. Much evidence exists that refutes the current positions that is stronger, and is nonetheless shunned.

[Razorofoccam]

I agree with the two examples, and 'oblate spheroid' is the best term for earths shape I have heard.


My post was more about certain historical events that I find highly unlikely, if not provably false. The last ice age, the bering migration story, the age of the Sphinx, etc.
These subjects are taught to be one way, and I find the basic premises of that way are all very dubious conclusions, in my view. Much evidence exists that refutes the current positions that is stronger, and is nonetheless shunned.
Blackguard..

Ivory tower conservatism?
IE:
Dont want to admit that what has been taught was actually
dubious in a new current perspective.
That what was claimed as scientiffic was in fact muchly opinion.

If science was taught correctly...Students would EXPECT theories to
evolve or even be cast aside.
Even while they learn about them.

Occam

[mother_nature's_son]

How can occam be distracted by th external by believing the only method to understanding reality..Both internal and external.
Is the ballance of reason and emotion in human minds.?
That our current situation of 98% emotion and 2% reason
Is a worthy thing to perpetuate.
Emotion and greed/power run this planet...
And we all know it.

You take the cliched line that occam is a tool of blind reason
through science, thus lacking in some inner perspective of spirit..

False...Occam only asks that we all behave as reasonable beings.
And that 'includes' being a 'spiritual being'
Occam,

You need not take my words as a personal attack, they were not intended as so. I was describing a strong atheist- as one who is so distracted by the external that their value of being diminishes. There is such a person I have met, and in his mind there is no possibility for any substance 'beyond'. And if you ask me, it is no coincidence that this same person also takes 'anti-depressant' drugs. He fuels his own unhappiness with his stark interpretation of science, and doesn't realize it. The man lives in darkness, as do so many others like him.

I agree that reason includes spirituality. This is how I came to it. I believe it is the path of the future.

blessings

[Razorofoccam]

Occam,

You need not take my words as a personal attack, they were not intended as so. I was describing a strong atheist- as one who is so distracted by the external that their value of being diminishes. There is such a person I have met, and in his mind there is no possibility for any substance 'beyond'. And if you ask me, it is no coincidence that this same person also takes 'anti-depressant' drugs. He fuels his own unhappiness with his stark interpretation of science, and doesn't realize it. The man lives in darkness, as do so many others like him.

I agree that reason includes spirituality. This is how I came to it. I believe it is the path of the future.

blessings
Mother_Natures_Son.

Occam does not.

We seem to connect concepts to experience..
Your friend...Who 'believes not in the possibillity of anything...beyond.'
Is a great example....

[a short aside.. and why does experience get accessed first...below conscious control...self preservation..The unconscious is far wiser in some ways...than reason..
The destroyer of this idea..is panic.
WHAT IS PANIC???
Someone please help...occam NEEDS others perspective on this.]

Occam has met many who say
There is no REALITY
and
That there is no god....and
No justice.
No freedom
No soul
No end to war
No life but us
No spirit
No choice
No reason [or rhyme]
No point

What do you think?

Occam

[mother_nature's_son]

Occam does not what?

We seem to connect concepts to experience..Has someone ever offered you advice/wisdom that you did not truly understand until you experienced the lesson for yourself?
Or perhaps read another's philosophy which did not resonate within until you discovered the same ideas through your own patterns of mind?
In theory there is much we hold true, which we do not live by until we reveal it to ourselves.
"The seat of the soul is there where the inner and the outer worlds meet." -Novalis


[a short aside.. and why does experience get accessed first...below conscious control...self preservation..The unconscious is far wiser in some ways...than reason..
The destroyer of this idea..is panic.
WHAT IS PANIC???
Someone please help...occam NEEDS others perspective on this.]
It seems you are asking, correct me if I am wrong... Why do we contaminate the present moment with the past?
We use the mind more than as a tool; we identify ourselves through it.

Occam has met many who say
There is no REALITY
and
That there is no god....and
No justice.
No freedom
No soul
No end to war
No life but us
No spirit
No choice
No reason [or rhyme]
No point

What do you think?
To quote Joseph Campbell for his eloquence and clarity...

The mystery of life is beyond all human conception. Everything we know is within the terminology of the concepts of being and not being, many and single, true and untrue. We always think in terms of opposites. But God, the ultimate, is beyond the pairs of opposites, that is all there is to it. We think in terms of opposites because we cannot think otherwise. That's the nature of reality in our time. That's the nature of our experience of reality. "Eternity is in love with productions of time", says the poet Blake. The source of temporal life is eternity. Eternity pours itself into the world. It is a basic mythic idea of the god who becomes many in us. In India, the god who lies in me is called the 'inhabitant' of the body. To identify with that divine, immortal aspect of yourself is to identify yourself with divinity. Now, eternity is beyond all categories of thought. This is an important point in all of the great Oriental religions. We want to think about God. God is a thought. God is a name. God is an idea. But its reference is to something that transcends all thinking. The ultimate mystery of being is beyond all categories of thought. As the Buddha is reported to have said: "It both is and is not; neither is, nor is not".

[Occam]

Occam does not what?

Has someone ever offered you advice/wisdom that you did not truly understand until you experienced the lesson for yourself?
Or perhaps read another's philosophy which did not resonate within until you discovered the same ideas through your own patterns of mind?
In theory there is much we hold true, which we do not live by until we reveal it to ourselves.
"The seat of the soul is there where the inner and the outer worlds meet." -Novalis



It seems you are asking, correct me if I am wrong... Why do we contaminate the present moment with the past?
We use the mind more than as a tool; we identify ourselves through it.

To quote Joseph Campbell for his eloquence and clarity...

The mystery of life is beyond all human conception. Everything we know is within the terminology of the concepts of being and not being, many and single, true and untrue. We always think in terms of opposites. But God, the ultimate, is beyond the pairs of opposites, that is all there is to it. We think in terms of opposites because we cannot think otherwise. That's the nature of reality in our time. That's the nature of our experience of reality. "Eternity is in love with productions of time", says the poet Blake. The source of temporal life is eternity. Eternity pours itself into the world. It is a basic mythic idea of the god who becomes many in us. In India, the god who lies in me is called the 'inhabitant' of the body. To identify with that divine, immortal aspect of yourself is to identify yourself with divinity. Now, eternity is beyond all categories of thought. This is an important point in all of the great Oriental religions. We want to think about God. God is a thought. God is a name. God is an idea. But its reference is to something that transcends all thinking. The ultimate mystery of being is beyond all categories of thought. As the Buddha is reported to have said: "It both is and is not; neither is, nor is not".




Mother_nature's_son

Take your words as a personal attack

Well said

Is that a perspective on panic?

Eloquent...The mystery of being..our being..may be that.
But it also 'may be' . something we can understand...
So many propose we are limmited..and we are, as individuals.
But humanity is greater than the sum of its parts.

Occam

[BlackGuardXIII]

Mother_nature's_son

Take your words as a personal attack

Well said

Is that a perspective on panic?

Eloquent...The mystery of being..our being..may be that.
But it also 'may be' . something we can understand...
So many propose we are limmited..and we are, as individuals.
But humanity is greater than the sum of its parts.

Occam


Reality too......so much greater than I can yet believe is just chance... way beyond what I imagined as being possible.
Too many precognitive dreams to ignore it any more. Real time concepts
of mine are pretty sketchy. I don't see how they can happen...but they do.
Resonance
Crystal Frequencies, waves, vibrations, harmonics, synchronicities, astrology intrigues me, all around the world.
It may be that we can understand our being, like a hammer can understand its being. How can a brain or heart understand itself.
I sure can
NOT.
I hope they fill me in when I die, but that is not a given....lol.