Wicca... come on

[TheSkaEffect]

Allright, from what i see all Wicca seems to be is a hobby for depressed teenage gals. Not to offend any of you wiccans but could someone tell me what this is all about? I'd like to think its not as evil as those radical southern churches make it sound so id appreciate it if someone could enlighten me as to what it is you folks are all about.
~Thanks

[Sage-Phoenix]

Agreed, of course there are anal purists (in all relgions) but most are happy tolerant folk.

I suggest you save the judgements for when you have actually learnt something of the religion. Those comment scream of utter ignorance.

For the record.....

Yes wicca does appeal to teenage girls (aka fluffy bunnies, though I don't like the term) but there are many more true sincere believers. Consider those who post here to be the latter.

The evil/devil worshipping etc is Christian propaganda, yes there is such thing as satanism. But it has no connection with wicca.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm (a nice simple overview)

[velvet]

You can also check this website (Wicca for the rest of us): http://wicca.timerift.net/

There's a lot on the 'fluffy bunnies' vs. 'serious wicca' there.. although I agree with Sage-Phoenix that 'fluffy bunnie' is a bit of a weird term and maybe it's even not so wrong for people to go through a fluff phase.. I mean, you see it a lot.. when people just find a path (being wicca, vegetarian or born again christian or whatever) they tend to go through a bit of a preachy fundy phase.. and in the case of wicca it results in young girls wearing pentacles all over, trying to look mysterious and saying "never again the burning times!"..

Ah well... but check the website.. it's quite interesting

[cerridwen]

www.witchvox.com
www.wicca.com
www.llewellyn.com

all are good sites and have some info on wicca....

[Soulless||Chaos]

Haha hell even satanism doesn't have to do with worshipping satan... :rolleyes:

[TheSkaEffect]

Haha hell even satanism doesn't have to do with worshipping satan... :rolleyes:lol then they picked a rather odd name for the religion ;)

[cerridwen]

indeed... I didn't know that....

[velvet]

There are satanist who 'worship' Satan (obviously not the exact same one as in the bible, since that is 'christian propaganda' and Satans story is quite different).. but the mere reason for satanist to call themself that is because they oppose the virtues of submissiveness as present by Christians (kinda like Nietzsche did with his version of the über- and untermensch).. they feel like standing up for yourself at all times is better than 'love thy enemy' etc.. more hedonistic. Satan is a mere symbol for that I guess.

But I'm not a Satanist so I might be wrong.. ask Colenzo ;)

[Desapman]

What Im wondering is - do you NEED to have 'Magik, the Gathering' type cards to join a Pagan RPG - or is that just something 'optional'?
Personally, I dont think everyone can be named 'Hawkwind'.
There should be more variation of the character names (imho)?

[darrellkitchen]

What Im wondering is - do you NEED to have 'Magik, the Gathering' type cards to join a Pagan RPG - or is that just something 'optional'?
Personally, I dont think everyone can be named 'Hawkwind'.
There should be more variation of the character names (imho)?Now I'm completely mystified !!! ???

What does Wicca have to do with a Role Playing Game (RPG) ???

Darrell

[Desapman]

Im not sure.
I thought it was one of those Role-Playing Games with Magik cards?

Im basing this on the Wicca Club the local teen girls around here are into.
They are also into Buffy RPG - although I cant tell if they are mutually exlcusive RPG's or not?

I dunno.. someone fill me in?

[darrellkitchen]

Im not sure.
I thought it was one of those Role-Playing Games with Magik cards?

Im basing this on the Wicca Club the local teen girls around here are into.
They are also into Buffy RPG - although I cant tell if they are mutually exlcusive RPG's or not?

I dunno.. someone fill me in?Take a look at website posted from Velvet, page one of this thread ... http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39930#post523495

Darrell

[velvet]

Hey fellow Dutchie :D

Ehm.. there is a huge difference between rpg's and religion. Wicca is a religion that falls under the umbrella of paganistic religions.. others are for example shamanism and druidism (if I'm correct). However, a lot of wiccans are sadly enough 'fluffy'.. they see the 'cool things' witches do on TV (Buffy, Charmed etc) and want to be like that.. doing 'love spells'.. acting all mysterious and thinking they actual posses some kind of super natural power. This has nothing to do with the actual religion. Wicca as a religion is first and foremost something between the God(dess) and yourself.. your role in nature etc.

Since I'm not wiccan I'm not the best to explain this.. but basically: rpg and wicca (the religion) is a world of difference.. although I immediately believe there are rpg's with the name 'wicca'.. but that's like naming a game 'war' while sitting there playing it peacefully with your friends... it's totally different.

Welcome to the boards!

Oh.. and if you are interested in RPG's you probably have more luck at the pc forums here.. more geek centered there :p

[Desapman]

I've seen these people hold various activities at Stonehedge and other parts of England like Glastonbury.
I assumed it was a kind of 'fantasy' character game they were up to.
Several people were named 'Hawkwind' - thats why I assumed 'Hawkwind' must be a specific 'Character' in the club.

Interesting.

[velvet]

I've seen these people hold various activities at Stonehedge and other parts of England like Glastonbury.
I assumed it was a kind of 'fantasy' character game they were up to.
Several people were named 'Hawkwind' - thats why I assumed 'Hawkwind' must be a specific 'Character' in the club.

Interesting.
Haha.. ehm.. no :) The specific clothing is 'ritual clothing' (like priests in Roman Catholic church wear).. and the similarity in names.. well.. 'hawk-wind' apperently has a certain appeal to pagan folk, like other nature related names (sage, autumn or one of the diety related names).

Can imagine the confusion.. hehe..

[gnrm23]

i rather suspect that many (but not all) of the folks seen celebrating seasonally at stonehenge are druids...

and within the "neo-pagan community" (which for most would include wicca), there are prolly folks into it for a variety of different reasons...
(i suppose the same could be said of many who "find jesus" as well, mmmm?)

[Desapman]

The Cartoon Strip is innaccurate.
Hallowe'en is a Christian Holiday instituted to replace Samhain.

The Cartoonist is undoubtedly from a fringe denomination in the USA.
Probably its from around 1960's or 70's?

Satanism or even 'Druidism' is not very popular among todays young people.
I base this on the mockery directed towards those few teens who do join the Buffy/Wicca groups at the Schools.

Credit where due to the artist - its probably true that 'Satanic Human Sacrifices' are a 'Slap in Gods face'
I think he probably even Understated that somewhat hehe.

[mysweetisrael]

Ya know what drives me nuts about Wicca? The deal about if you do something bad it'll come back to you threefold. What kind of crap is that? 3? Why not 2.5? Why not 6? Where'd they come up with 3? Why not just advise people that they shouldn't do bad things and that what you put out comes back to you, for good or for bad?

Quite honestly, Wicca's always struck me as Crowley for cowards and the Barnes & Noble crowd.

[Desapman]

I think the Crowley types (the more 'hard core' cult groups) will find Wiccan types and tease them into joining.
Tell them they are not another 'Buffy Teen' and encourage them to start 'getting real'.

I bet a lot of the Wiccan types get a little tired of being teased and mocked and eventually go into Crowley or LaVey type levels, just to 'Show you' they are really really witches/warlocks/spirit beings (or whatever it is they want to be)

I guess its fun though.. for those who want to do magik spells and sorta shock their Grandparents or something.

[velvet]

And on a side not, because I am new here, and few know my sense of humor....The above post is meant to be humorous. thanks

Slutter McGee nevermind.. didn't read your last post yet ;) Yeah.. that chick guy is really weird.. but what do you expect from a guy named Jack Chick. hehe

[darrellkitchen]

Ya know what drives me nuts about Wicca? The deal about if you do something bad it'll come back to you threefold. What kind of crap is that? 3? Why not 2.5? Why not 6? Where'd they come up with 3? Why not just advise people that they shouldn't do bad things and that what you put out comes back to you, for good or for bad?

Quite honestly, Wicca's always struck me as Crowley for cowards and the Barnes & Noble crowd.Now, I could be wrong here, but ...

I don't believe they just mean bad things, I think the belief is everything you do will come back to you in threes, similar to the Buddhist belief in Karma only Buddhists don't teach that karma has a three-fold affect.

Darrell

[velvet]

Ya know what drives me nuts about Wicca? The deal about if you do something bad it'll come back to you threefold. What kind of crap is that? 3? Why not 2.5? Why not 6? Where'd they come up with 3? Why not just advise people that they shouldn't do bad things and that what you put out comes back to you, for good or for bad? Well.. it's not that hard to imagine. All religion have stuff in it that's more symbolic than anything else. Thereby, 3 is a number that has always had a certain symbolism (think of the holy trinity in christianity). The laws of karma can be quite mindboggling for some, but every can understand the threefold 'law' stuff. Note that it's not a 'law', more like a warning, something to keep in mind. You can still be an 'evil wiccan' if you want, you just have to deal with the consequences.. but a lot of religions have that aspect (evil= hell, evil= horrible reincarnation.. etc).

It would be nice if you wouldn't mock wicca so much. Ofcourse, there is a lot of 'fluff' out there, but there are also people who are dead serious about it and not into it for the 'magick' (in fact, the despise the use of that wrong spelling). Same goes for you Desapman.. would be nice to see you a bit more openminded about it.. there are people here who are wicca or closely relate to it (not me btw) and you don't show them a whole lot of respect.

[Desapman]

Jack Chick heheh... thats where that is from.
Chick is totally whacked.. but.. very hip and retro collectables.
His 'Sodom and Gamorrah' masterpiece is something of a collectable now.

Christianity is a little less 'mystic' about things like 'Karma' or 'Curses'.
"What you Sow... so will you Reap"
It takes it to the more practical level I suppose.

As far as respect goes.. I personally enjoy most of the 'Keener' subcultures in my society.
Yes, I tease the Star Trekkers and the Everquest groupies I know.. but its all in good fun and usually they enjoy someone being humourous to them instead of mean-spirited.
Most of the Wiccan types I meet are generally very decent people who, at worst, have some 'Identity' issues.
Many feel a little 'left out' and need this role-playing to give themselves some feeling of 'special powers'.

Thats nothing so bad.

Sometimes some light-hearted observation makes them feel a little more grounded.

[velvet]

Hehe.. ok.. you're totally right.. without humour it's all way to boring.. and those trekkies are just asking for it! ;) It's always fun to point out the stereotypes, as long as we don't forget that there is more to it than that ;)

I mean.. the moment I can't make fun of this anymore, is the moment I'll kill myself.. hehe

[BlackHoodedCrow]

Keep this in mind. Wicca is a new religion based on older cultures. Crowley was a "Magician" Paganism is not just about spells and magic. This is the missconception that pisses me off. I'm not Wiccan and I hold nothing against Wiccans. But Being a pagan is a worship also and a celibeation of nature. Seeing it as sacred. I hate when New age people come in and try to put there own stamp on it. One Woman claiming to be a witch said it was a fact most ancient Pagans were Vegatarians!! LOL Yeah that's why they had a God of the hunt!!!!! Anyhoo off the point. 3 folds law is taken from the easter belief in Karma. Personally I see no reason why eastern beliefs are involved with western paganism. Like I said just my opinion!
:-)



I think the Crowley types (the more 'hard core' cult groups) will find Wiccan types and tease them into joining.
Tell them they are not another 'Buffy Teen' and encourage them to start 'getting real'.

I bet a lot of the Wiccan types get a little tired of being teased and mocked and eventually go into Crowley or LaVey type levels, just to 'Show you' they are really really witches/warlocks/spirit beings (or whatever it is they want to be)

I guess its fun though.. for those who want to do magik spells and sorta shock their Grandparents or something.

[RyvreWillow]

You guys have raised alot of interesting points, even if by accident.

Please don't judge Wiccans, or other pagans, by what you see advertised. People who run around, looking like "witches" and spouting off taglines are generally beginners, or wannabes. Some don't even realize it's a religion! That's because real, sincere pagans don't go door-to-door offering their beliefs. They know there is wisdom in knowing when to keep things to yourself, and someone who goes looking for people to debate with do so because they aren't really sure of what they believe in, and feel the need to prove themselves to others so it's more real to them, even if it's just on a subconscious level. These people have more to do with the growing misconceptions about pagans than the Christians and others who try to portray us as evil do!

As for RPG, tv shows, books and movies--well, put it this way. Do you think every day in an emergency room is as dramatic, interesting, and exciting as the show "ER?" How about the crime shows? Do you think mysteries generally get solved in one day, not to mention less than 30 minutes? Of course not, this is fiction, and has little if anything to do with real life.

Wiccans and other pagans sometimes give themselves what are called "magickal names" for a variety of reasons: to help them prepare their minds for rituals and other work (as christians, for example, may dress up for church), as an alias for correspondance (unfortunately, there is still alot of persecution in most areas, and someone leading a circle or writing a book may literally need to protect their identity), just for fun, etc.

That's all i can think to add at them moment, lol.

Oh yeah--the threefold thing. I don't think there's anyone that literally believes whatever you do will come back to you exactly three times. What the saying really means is that you get back what you put out in the universe, only it's usally bigger, more intense, etc. "What goes around, comes around" may be more accurate.

[Becknudefck]

Mr Crowley
what went on in your head
ooh mr crowley
did you talk to the dead
-great Ozy song-

but Wicca is one of the religions I actualyl respect. Its not evil, from what ive heard its like a nature type religion. Christianity and anything like it is the religion i hate, always putting other ones down because they think theyre so right. But wiccan is alright.

[jim_w]

Ok then, so what do 'real' wiccans beleive/do?

[Little_Dove]

I tried to join the Pagan Student Association at Rutgers a few years ago, but there were a bunch of Buffy fans and they had these info sessions on "Discordianism." That one really offended me, because I thought I was in a safe place for people of faith, and the whole session was about calling religion bullshit... So I got on the president and gave them a bunch of reasons never ever to have that presenter again (I was not the only one offended, by FAR!)

But anyway, back to Wicca... I've been practicing for almost 10 years now, and I first became interested because I _was_ one of those depressed teen girls... Thank goodness I found that Wicca was all about acknowledging the Divine Feminine and the Sacred in everyday life...

The most stereotypical Wiccan/Pagan things in my life may be that I looooove The Mists of Avalon, Charmed, and Renn Faires. I love imagining a College of Women's Mysteries, so I like to daydream in that novel... I love Charmed just like my Catholic mother loved Bewitched... Who wouldn't want to wiggle their nose and the house is clean?? I would soooo love to be able to blow up demons like GW if I were like Piper, lol.... And I like Renn Faires because I like looking at the pretty costumes and people sell great jewelry there!

[scrap_rat]

The cartoon was taken off Jack Chick's website. Chick is a nut, and I did not texpect anyone to actually take the cartoon seriously. It does not surprise me that it is inaccurate.

Slutter McGee
Yeah, the Brittish Ilses, an Egyption Ankh, a pumpkin that wouldn't be found in England for another thousand years, give or take a century... Definitely humor, though sadly on Chick's part unintentional.

[heron]

Haha hell even satanism doesn't have to do with worshipping satan... :rolleyes:

There are some who worshi Satan, seeing that he is Set-an,
the Egyptian god, taking out by the pantheistic Hebrews upon
their Exodus from Egypt.

There was a falling out over there was a deity, or just a
concept. Lavey went with concept, others went with deity.

"Satan" is not he opposer of the OT, but like i said, an Egyptian god.
Lucifer was a roman god that got a bad name when Christians came to
town, and the opposer was the one who went agains El in heaven
and was cast down

ALL three of them are completly different.

As to Wicca, there are several faces to it. Wicca is a beautiful and legitimate religion to its mature believers. But it is also a trend for lots
of younger ones, who may oneday abandon it, or grow into the
faithful mature Wiccans that i have met.

[heron]

Ya know what drives me nuts about Wicca? The deal about if you do something bad it'll come back to you threefold. What kind of crap is that? 3? Why not 2.5? Why not 6? Where'd they come up with 3? Why not just advise people that they shouldn't do bad things and that what you put out comes back to you, for good or for bad?

Quite honestly, Wicca's always struck me as Crowley for cowards and the Barnes & Noble crowd.

They have reasons for their laws, i think three might be based
on the Celtic reverance for 3 as a special universal number.

But as to it really happening, it is a product of their beliefs,
if they do something they know was ethically wrong, then
they will be inflicted with it 3 fold.

That means only they, who abide by that, will get that.
if one doesnt then it wont.

But you have to consider when doing unethical things in
magic, usually involves an outside agent, who may come
back for payment, maybe in 3 fold.

[greengoddess]

Agreed, of course there are anal purists (in all relgions) but most are happy tolerant folk.

I suggest you save the judgements for when you have actually learnt something of the religion. Those comment scream of utter ignorance.

For the record.....

Yes wicca does appeal to teenage girls (aka fluffy bunnies, though I don't like the term) but there are many more true sincere believers. Consider those who post here to be the latter.

The evil/devil worshipping etc is Christian propaganda, yes there is such thing as satanism. But it has no connection with wicca.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm (a nice simple overview)






Beautifully said!!

[Sage-Phoenix]

Thank you :)

*bows*

Yeah I think Heron is on the right lines with the three fold law.
Even so, I just doesn't work in terms of physics (equal and opposite forces) besides surely just an equal karmaic pay off is good/bad enough.
There's a great article on that somewhere, shall have to search it out.

So no, don't buy it, though am a great believer in karma.

[Zoomie]

Fluffy bunnies are great...

...when served with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

Did someone post this already? I sure am lazy today...

[LotusGem]

Well I'm Wiccan and I'm not a teenager, certainly not depressed, and Wicca is my spiritual path and way of life, not a "hobby". Some would even call it their religion. It is a very serious path for most, it's just unfortunate that for some people (mainly teenage girls, yes, however there are others) it is nothing more than a fad.

[mysweetisrael]

That means only they, who abide by that, will get that.
if one doesnt then it wont.
Kinda like those Choose Your Own Adventure books except it's Choose Your Own Consequences. If you don't believe in it won't work? Something about that rubs me wrong.

But you have to consider when doing unethical things in
magic, usually involves an outside agent, who may come
back for payment, maybe in 3 fold. So are you saying that the practitioner determines what is and is not ethical? Or is it the outside agent? What if one does not distinguish between right and wrong? What if one has escaped dualism? Then there are no good or bad consequences; there are simply results.

What is the use of believing that if I do some terrible misdeed that it will come back to hurt me? What if it doesn't? What if I get away with it? What then? Does everyone get theirs? Obviously not. So what then? Can't we get beyond this whole cause and effect thing? This whole "I better not do that because God/Goddess/The Universe/Karma will get me" thing?

I take umbrage at belief systems which employ empty threats to cow you into line.

msi.

[heron]

I dont believe in the "3 fold law" to begin with.

If you ask something to help you do something,
it may seem benevolent and help you, not
telling you there may be a price, and if
you are asking something to assit you
in doing something negative, then chances
are that it will come back for payment
from you, which, theoretically, could be
three fold. Maybe thats how it happened
once to someone and it became a general
tradition.

There is no set rule, you act like i said
there was. I was just explaining why
someone may adopt that "law"

But its like going to the mob
to have them do something for you,
there is a chance they will come
asking for you to do something
worse for them, or get it.

I dont believe in karma, as
it applies in eastern religions,
so i dont think if im good i
will be rewarded in a next life.

I do believe that I live honorably,
and with value and faith, that
I will have a place amoung my gods,
but if i am "bad" i wont be punished.

As to the "Choose your own consequences"
that is similar to the placebo affect. If
you do something you know is unethical,
then the negative energy may take
control of you, and guilt too. So if
you beleive that you will get it
3 fold, then you probably will.

Like if you believe you are sick,
and dying, you probably will.

[mysweetisrael]

It's up to the individual to determine whether they want to change their behavior or change their perception of it.