Things are going to change around here...

[Skip]

First thing, I've removed the Random Thoughts forum.

Secondly. If you don't like the way this forum is run, leave immediately, and don't ever come back.

Thirdly. Personal attacks are not allowed here, yet some of you seem unable to restrain yourselves. I don't care WHO THE FUCK YOU ARE, but you attack a member of this site, and not only will you be banned permanently, but your attacks will be kept here for the use of those who want to SUE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU for defamation of character, etc. And we will back them 100%.

There are a lot of changes gonna happen here, and some of you are gonna get the boot. I've been extremely tolerant of forum violations, but no more.

Got it?

[Bella Désordre]

I actually like this, even though I posted in Random Thoughts frequently. It will be nice to know opinions are not going to get me called a variety of four letter words.
I do have a question though. What about the personal forums? My husband had a personal forum about brewing and now I can't find it. Has it been moved or deleted?
Thanks

[Boogabaah]

but.. but.. but... :( i don't understand! what happened? why?

ugh.. always a handful of idiots ruin it for all.. :(


i'm okay with it.. i'll live... but i'm still gonna pout.

[BraveSirRubin]

Sure thing.

[Unknown American]

Got it- crystal clear.

It is your site and your rules.

[I'minmyunderwear]

I actually like this, even though I posted in Random Thoughts frequently. It will be nice to know opinions are not going to get me called a variety of four letter words.
I do have a question though. What about the personal forums? My husband had a personal forum about brewing and now I can't find it. Has it been moved or deleted?
Thanks

if you go to "Your Posts" you can still get into rt from there. the personal forums are still there, and still active. as for as the four letter words, people can still follow you and insult you in any other forum though...


i'm a little curious what happened too. i just checked the final page one of rt; it was really pretty tame compared to what i've seen in the past. and personally, i would have talked to my mods before shutting down one of the most popular parts of my website, if it were mine. oh well though, it's not mine so there's nothing really i can say about it.


anyway, assuming i'm not about to be banned, i still probably won't be around here much anymore. it was nice talking to all of you and getting to know you while it lasted. :cheers2:

[orison319]

Sometimes you have to organize the nuts, I know that they can get out of hand.. Or be a handful. :)

And sometimes you got to lock em up in the cupboard for a little while or they will drive you crazy tying to pick them up everywhere.. :leaving:

[Skip]

thanks for the responses. the personal forums are not closed as stated. they may be a bit harder to find is all... for now...

The actions I'm taking are for the long-term benefit of this site. If we have to lose some ppl in the process, then they were ones who don't care about the long-term welfare of this site, but have other agendas.

[erzebet1961]

Thank You Skip , people should be able to enjoy The Forums without being afraid of getting bullied .

[prana]

you worry too much, skip.

[Skip]

Yes, and ppl should be able to visit the forums without being subjected to shit like this:

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9184/chub05.jpg

Posted by TheGanjaKing, who is never coming back, btw, cause he posts shit like this.

Either show some respect for this site, and it's members, or leave. NOW!

Got it?

[NotDeadYet]

Good moves, on all fronts.

First of all, the Random Thoughts forum is not really needed. The best material in the RT forum was the jokes. Those people can now post in the Humor forum, where there will be no confusion about whether or not something is meant to be a serious insult. If something is in the Humor forum, it is a joke. The clever RT word games can be posted in Forum Games. Some people used RT for a chat room, but HF has a chat room available.

Skip's second point is a cold, hard reality check. If you think you can run a better web site, feel free to start your own. The internet is a big place.

Third, this place was teetering dangerously close to the point where the people who get off on criticism and drama were going to chase away everybody who comes here to have a good time and learn something and exchange ideas with individuals who put serious thought into everything they say and believe. That would have been the end of Hip Forums as a useful web site.

Skip is doing what he has to do, and I give him a standing ovation for having the balls to do it.

[Skip]

Good moves, on all fronts.

First of all, the Random Thoughts forum is not really needed. The best material in the RT forum was the jokes. Those people can now post in the Humor forum, where there will be no confusion about whether or not something is meant to be a serious insult. If something is in the Humor forum, it is a joke. The clever RT word games can be posted in Forum Games. Some people used RT for a chat room, but HF has a chat room available.

Skip's second point is a cold, hard reality check. If you think you can run a better web site, feel free to start your own. The internet is a big place.

Third, this place was teetering dangerously close to the point where the people who get off on criticism and drama were going to chase away everybody who comes here to have a good time and learn something and exchange ideas with individuals who put serious thought into everything they say and believe. That would have been the end of Hip Forums as a useful web site.

Skip is doing what he has to do, and I give him a standing ovation for having the balls to do it.
Thank you. Well said. This is exactly what I'm talking about. :)

Some individuals seem to be here only to cause drama, insult our members and get others to leave. Sorry not gonna happen anymore.

I see a new day where this site is rid of those who have nothing to contribute to this community and care only about their own egos. Their time is up.

[prana]

good call man. I guess I should learn to trust your judgement.

[McLeodGanja]

I'm really surprised it took so long for this site to stamp out some of the filth people have have been posting. I joined this place because it's supposed to be forum for hippies and stoners and that, not an extreme fetish site.

Like I said before, I have nothing against anyone, but I don't want to fund a site that allows people to freely post shit like this.

Well, I hope I'm not one of the ones down for getting banned. The posting of general bollocks is something I have regularly partaken in on many a late night of drunkenness, but if it's not the done thing in here no more then I'm happy to toe the line and go with the flow.

Free speech is one thing, but there has to be limits I guess. So I'm happy with the new HF direction, although I hope not too many people I used to enjoy talking to haven't been banned.

I'll stick with the rules, but I would like to say if things start to become like another site whence from came I that shall remain nameless, with mods running amok like robocop, banning people left right and centre for farting, then I'll probably end up leaving altogether, but I don't think that is going to happen.

[prana]

well for better or worse, that is the price of freedom

[deadguy]

That pic almost made me :puke:!

[orison319]

Im not a big fan of the Led Zeppelin but...
your time is gonna come..

your time is gonna come..

sing along... ;)

[McLeodGanja]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgECKj9LSH4

[Willy_Wonka_27]

Im ready for the crackdown!!! Thank you skip!

[wally m]

I take a boat ride to alaska and the world keeps changing.:):confused:

[BBAD]

I cant see the pic that was posted...

sorry if I ever posted anything near to whatever it was

[eyeagainsteye]

I cant see the pic that was posted...

sorry if I ever posted anything near to whatever it was

you dont want to see it..you would of went blind

[AquaLight]

Looks like I've missed the drama. :D
Wasn't really that bad compared to other forums, but I do agree there were some people who just had to be banned.

[JoeyPB]

Well, I'm new to this particular forum, but I've been a member to others for a while. The only question I really have about it is, what's going to stop them from using a different email address and just coming back to do the same thing?

[McLeodGanja]

Well, I'm new to this particular forum, but I've been a member to others for a while. The only question I really have about it is, what's going to stop them from using a different email address and just coming back to do the same thing?

Moderators?

[JoeyPB]

Moderators?

Yeah, they can do something about it I suppose, but some people are relentless. It's easy to make a free email account and harass people online and in forums repeatedly.

[McLeodGanja]

Yeah, they can do something about it I suppose, but some people are relentless. It's easy to make a free email account and harass people online and in forums repeatedly.

They'll soon get bored if the mods clamp down on it, most of them. There's always one that keeps coming back though.

[Fyrenza]

Not really, Joey...

Your IP addy can be tracked, and flagged

regardless of whatever email account you use.

i'm not so sure what to think of all of this, to tell you the truth:

On the one hand, there are folks posting all sorts of things about masturbating, along with pretty much every kind of sex you can think of;

on the other hand, you've got peeps posting funny and/or shocking things.

Isn't that what the "Ignore" feature is for? So that if another member offends you, you don't ever have to read their posts, again?

And also why there are certain forums for certain subjects, that a guy could steer clear of if s/he thought it might offend them?

Skip, i don't envy you on this, 'cuz you're caught between a rock and a hard spot on whether or not to allow free speech, and this issue will cause a ruckus...

i mean, sure, it'd be okay for everything to be all nice and nice, with everyone being respectful, and acting in a mature manner ~

but it would be sort of BORING...
(you've got to admit, some of the dis'es are hilarious!!! :rofl: )

Well, just my 2¢

and i hope you don't have to ban me for this! ;)

[Bella Désordre]

I just donated for the first time in awhile. I didn't before because I didn't want to support a site who's mods facilitated verbal abuse. I bet a lot more donations will flow in as less and less people feel attacked.

[Skip]

I just donated for the first time in awhile. I didn't before because I didn't want to support a site who's mods facilitated verbal abuse. I bet a lot more donations will flow in as less and less people feel attacked.
Well that is part of the issue. Unfortunately I've had to ban some supporters today, but that is a small price to pay. As it stands now this site is just a black hole for my own money. Only one month in more than 10 years has this site paid for itself. And that month I had to beg to keep the site alive.

At this point, we are again close to me shutting the whole thing down. It's just not worth it to me and those who work hard (mods) to keep it together much longer.

Perhaps if we can manage to raise the level of discourse on this site, we might once again attract those who have something useful to offer the hipforums community, rather than insults, disrespect, vacuous posts and endless trolling.

The Hipforums have never achieved what they're capable of achieving thanks to those who have so much "fun" bringing it down.

I'm all for having "fun", but that doesn't require insults and disrespect. Unfortunately we have attracted a whole generation who don't understand that at all...

[Bella Désordre]

I really hope you don't end up shutting it down. I know I will now be more catious of what I post, since there has been a new standard set. Since there's no longer that enviorment that's a free for all for insults, I can't see many people insulting others any longer. It seems like there is literally no 'forum' (no pun intended) left for it.Well that is part of the issue. Unfortunately I've had to ban some supporters today, but that is a small price to pay. As it stands now this site is just a black hole for my own money. Only one month in more than 10 years has this site paid for itself. And that month I had to beg to keep the site alive.

At this point, we are again close to me shutting the whole thing down. It's just not worth it to me and those who work hard (mods) to keep it together much longer.

Perhaps if we can manage to raise the level of discourse on this site, we might once again attract those who have something useful to offer the hipforums community, rather than insults, disrespect, vacuous posts and endless trolling.

The Hipforums have never achieved what they're capable of achieving thanks to those who have so much "fun" bringing it down.

I'm all for having "fun", but that doesn't require insults and disrespect. Unfortunately we have attracted a whole generation who don't understand that at all...

[nesta]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3552/3377919981_109d7d0233.jpg

[Friend]

-NotDeadYet - you might have posted a link to this thread instead of sending me a pm sounding like I was banned or something since I used to post only on the rt.

-I do need to check the movie section for some info.

-I don't contribute - (but I should) and I do disagree with banning a paying member to SOME degree. Supporting the site is not a "license to kill". I've seen it done. However, I think that paying members should have a warning before a banning. I know some won't agree but that's how I feel.

-Can't see theGanjaKing thread or picture.

-I've never changed who I am, never will. I've made more friends than enemies in here but on other sites where it's a different ball game - whatever attitude anyone ever had - they all made friends and enemies anyway - that's how it is on the net.

On a side note, Skip, mods - strangely enough - I talked to one of you guys yesterday. He was very nice and changed my opinion on certain things but I have ONE PROBLEM (that, personally - I can deal with). There are so many rules listed that it's easy to break some without knowing - so, please moderate with moderation - I'm sure some people don't mean harm - warning first? Then the atom bomb? Personally, the part where I don't have a problem is that if you act correctly with people - you don't need one single rule - you'll always be ok (unless some technical shit - y'know - a double-post rule or something like that - that you oversee...).

I don't think this thread had anything to do with me - contrary to what I was lead to believe.

I'm still a nut.

[Jaitaiyai]

Your IP addy can be tracked, and flagged
You can change your IP.


I didn't see what Ganja posted and whilst I really do disagree with this decision, it's not my job. *sigh* I'm seriously gonna miss the place. I'm guessing it's permanent?

[Bella Désordre]

I totally changed my mind when I saw what TGK posted. I assumed he got the boot for something else. I feel a bit sick for supporting him now and feeling bad he was gone, now that I know what really happened.

[BraveSirRubin]

It was just a picture of a nasty naked dude. You people are rather fearful of the human body for liberals. :)

[fitzy21]

i feel like i've been hit with a billy club to the back of my head from all of what has happened

[Skip]

I totally changed my mind when I saw what TGK posted. I assumed he got the boot for something else. I feel a bit sick for supporting him now and feeling bad he was gone, now that I know what really happened.
I responded to a complaint about TGK, and when I reviewed some of the shit (mostly worthless, some in violation) he posted, I really regretting giving him leeway on other things. Let's not discuss the banned anymore please.

Remember when I am in this cleanup mode, I am IMPERSONAL. I just do my job like the mods do. That is why supporters are being banned. I don't play favs when it comes to banning. But I will always reconsider a ban if contacted correctly. Taking on another identity to make a big scene here isn't ever going to get you back on, and only validates a permanent ban.

[TheMadcapSyd]

I'm not sure what happened, but I've browsed through enough threads in my time here especially in RT to know some kind of volcano probably exploded and something drastic probably had to be done, so cheers for doing whatever you did.:cheers2:

[neodude1212]

At this point, we are again close to me shutting the whole thing down. It's just not worth it to me and those who work hard (mods) to keep it together much longer.



aw man don't do that.

[mystical_shroom]

I am not surprised by this... RT always went through stints of up and down moments, but I still loved it...
It sucks... but what can ya' do... :(
I will miss RT and I hope that it will come back. But it's a forum and there are other places to post, even people's personal forums and the like...
I am sad that it is gone, and sad that it had to come down to this, but it's not my forum, it's Skips...

[NotDeadYet]

NotDeadYet - you might have posted a link to this thread instead of sending me a pm sounding like I was banned or something since I used to post only on the rt.

I don't think this thread had anything to do with me - contrary to what I was lead to believe.

Sorry! I saw that you were online, and assumed that you had already noticed that the RT was gone. I also assumed that you were not worried about getting banned, since you and I both know that you were not involved in the big, nasty, controversial thread that started all this. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I'm still a nut.

And I'm not aware of anyone wanting that to change. :)

[Fingermouse]

The Hipforums have never achieved what they're capable of achieving thanks to those who have so much "fun" bringing it down.


.


I 100% agree. The people who were supposedly all about fun were just there to insult, hurt, post crude disgusting trash and generally degrade the place, especially in Random Thoughts. Good move:cheers2:

I hope this is kept in check and the troublecausers wont just creep back into other sections of the site

[IamnotaMan]

Hmm , Random THoughts is a big topic.
In many ways it has been a big , massively vibrant community.The most successful in HF.

But in other ways , its recently become ,as I said in RT , I think damaged.Certainly a clash of purposes.
And some people thinking they own the place , and getting off on purely offending others.
I remember reading the comments of one RT poster , who's a moderator in other forums.Butter wouldn't melt in their mouth , elsewhere type of thing.
That person basically said "well no-one actually knows anyone else on RT so verbal abuse is great fun".Well , I find their perspective perplexing...

I love a dry sense of humour and a bit of sarcasm.But a wink /smile smilie /some restraint etc doesn't take long to add ,and completely changes a mood.But for some people still here , they just wanted to take it as far as possible - and "noobs" / "dirty hippies" etc ( in their words) were an "easy" target.

Currently an (otherwise!) great community is killed off , but some shitstirrers who DO know better , have achieved their aims in doing so.

It certainly suffered from lack of moderation , or atleast understanding of *what* should be moderated.
My view is that if it was reopened with enough mods for the extreme populartity of the place , the occasional poisoned skew of it , would be removed without any problems.

If its not , I think many good people will leave HF.If it is reopened , I think we can all take out any of the sad garbage that was creeping in.

Peace all.
:)

[secret_agent_amanda]

I just bugged poor stinkfoot. I thought I was being punished for posting bad poetry...lol

[jamesrock]

I was unable to bring up the post that is in question but I know from other threads the Gay stuff and anti religion stuff was kinda outta hand!!! glad to see you are on top of things. Is there any way to block some of the forums,,, ya know kinda personalize the site????? Great job all around!!!:cheers2:

[IamnotaMan]

But maybe what could've been done is that mods were clearer on site policy.And posters were clearer on site policy from hearing that from them.

RT was very , very , very popular.And didn't usually cause big offence.Recent times , it seems to have changed its skew with *some*people.Regular posters are the lifeblood of a site.
RT worked because people chatted about all manner of topics.
In comparison , the other areas of the site don't have that *chatting* /general chitchat , getting to know people feel.Nor can they really expect to.

[silverhippy]

It's like keeping the class after school because of the actions of a few, you know who the biggest offenders are,they are the same ones that have always done it, just get rid of them.. Then you can start all over..

Peace

[earthmother]

Just a thought. If this place 'twas mine, I'd create one basically un-moderated place for folks to go to post just such nonsense, with a warning label attached. (Maybe I'd even call it "Random Thoughts 2"...) You would post at your own risk. The real nuts would WANT to go there because they could say anything they wanted all day long without fear of scolding or banning. And if ya didn't like what was going on there, ya go someplace else. No muss, no fuss, everybody's happy. AND I'd make a separate place for the personal forums all together. Again, post at your own risk because the ONLY mod would be the person whose forum it was.

This would all be extremely FAIR and BALANCED, and a lot of problems and drama would be put to rest.

[rambleON]

rt was an ego farm.

[IamnotaMan]

True in some ways , yes
Unfortunately the ego for some was about seeing how far they could go.
Well , currently a terrific forum is dead.So they could get off on dissing some newbies and hippies etc
A tiny ,tiny proportion of culprits haven't had a day's ban.
But the sensible , overwhelming majority of people are without a great centre now..

My view is , we *can* get the place sorted without destroying parts of it.

[quantum0menace]

too bad for random thoughts...
i like random stuff...
:))

[silverhippy]

Again it was a hand full of people that went around attacking others at will just to feed egos.... It would have been easy to ban them, it was the same ones over and over again...

Peace

[fitzy21]

An insight to modding RT:

RT was moderated - not strictly to the rules and regulations of the forums, at least from my part. I didn't go out of my way to mod every little break of the rules. No one would post if I did that. I cleaned up the titles - deleted them when necessary - or even if the OP pm'd me about it, sometimes restored it with a new title. I didn't want to be seen as an extreme moderator who made rash decisions based on emotions that were all over the place. I didn't care much if a thread went off topic. Spam was removed quickly in most cases. Unless a reported post was a gross violation of the rules, I rarely acted on it - it was the nature of RT - I wasn't going to try to change the way RT worked. Personal attacks, yea, at times they got out of hand, especially the past couple of days. But for the most part, those "personal attacks" were between friends just shooting the shit with each other. Not to say there weren't any real attacks going on, beacuse there were...but they were few and far between the regular banter that went on each day. So yea, that could have been handled with better...

I was open with the members of RT - it didn't bother me to be asked why I deleted/closed a thread - I didn't like the secracy of some of the moderators when I wasn't a mod - so I wasn't going to be like that, I was going to be open with what I did if asked in a tasteful manner.

I'll take some of the blame for the downfall, for I was part of it as well. I participated in some personal attacks - I've let things go far beyond where it should have been stopped. I worked hard to keep a balance, but yea, at times it can spiral out. I joked around a lot about my powers with the RT members, had some fun with it. Maybe i shouldn't have done that...who knows. But for what its worth, I wouldn't change how I moderated RT at all.

-fitzy

[Bella Désordre]

Why should Skip have to pay for a bunch of people to act like morons and have it all happen under his name?
Further more, there shouldn't be moderators who missrepresent the intentions of the site and put up zero boundaries. Random Thoughts was a reflection of people who 'ran' it.Just a thought. If this place 'twas mine, I'd create one basically un-moderated place for folks to go to post just such nonsense, with a warning label attached. (Maybe I'd even call it "Random Thoughts 2"...) You would post at your own risk. The real nuts would WANT to go there because they could say anything they wanted all day long without fear of scolding or banning. And if ya didn't like what was going on there, ya go someplace else. No muss, no fuss, everybody's happy. AND I'd make a separate place for the personal forums all together. Again, post at your own risk because the ONLY mod would be the person whose forum it was.

This would all be extremely FAIR and BALANCED, and a lot of problems and drama would be put to rest.

[ROLLINGALONG]

I'm confused...we can still have fun ....right?

[Ocean Bionic]

http://www.hipforums.com/jesusforums.jpg

hmmmm.....
something.. just seems kinda off.

[IamnotaMan]

I'm just lost with it.I'm not sure people are clear on what isn't being tolerated and what is.RT had different "themes" thro the time I was there.The odd person was pouring petrol on a fire wihout trying to make people laugh in any way.
Which I think is a bit daft.
And there were other issues at the forum.

How come it all grinds to a halt now?
I think if people reflect on it , it might become clearer to them.
Either way , alot of good stuff was lost IMO.

[NotDeadYet]

If this place 'twas mine, I'd create one basically un-moderated place for folks to go...

What about things like slander and libel? Those are illegal everywhere, and forums that regularly allow such things can get in serious trouble with the law.

A free speech forum is very much like a bar. You can sit there and drink and say pretty much whatever you want, until you start causing a disturbance. That's when the bartender is going to throw you out.

You can summarize most of the HF rules in one sentence: You can disagree with people's opinions all you want, but you can't do stuff just to make them miserable.

[IamnotaMan]

The thing is , it was less than 1% of posters caused the utterly unfunny shit.
I love a good laugh-sarky stuff , dry humour.But as had been said , some people just wanted to damage the place.Like the regular "nigger" comments , devoid of any amusing qualities.As someone said before , people on an ego trip.

[secret_agent_amanda]

I don't know where to hang out now. :(

I think I'll go tell the women's issues girls to get back in the kitchen.

lol j/k!

[silverhippy]

Pick out the ones that came rushing into the "the Beat thread" same ones that do it over and over again, and then gloat about what they did..

Peace

[Kinky Ramona]

I don't know where to hang out now. :(

I think I'll go tell the women's issues girls to get back in the kitchen.

lol j/k!

Well, I'm already in the kitchen, so I guess that I'm safe. ;)

[Kinky Ramona]

Pick out the ones that came rushing into the "the Beat thread" same ones that do it over and over again, and then gloat about what they did..

Peace

Dude, I'd like to point out, I chilled on that chick and don't have any intent of bothering her or ever mentioning her again (sans this post). I decided it was time to stop before I ran her off (I was actually really relieved to see that she came back after that thread) or caused any real trouble. So...there, it's been publicly announced.

[Zoomie]

Guilty as charged. Being the mod of another forum does not make me immune. I posted mostly in RT. And lately I was personally attacked and I gave warnings but I fought back instead of reporting. I put those people on ignore, but that does not excuse anything I did.

I'm sorry if I contributed to RT's demise. If I need to go, I will go.

[Boogabaah]

sure it is nice to have freedom of speech.. it's even nicer when people know how to restrain themselves and not post every little feeling they have about someone... :rolleyes:

of course there are people here i do not like... i ignore them! it's not really that hard..

[Cate8]

Well, Im a little saddened RT is gone, BUT, I was also not coming here much anymore because of how bad it had gotten. Evens out I think.

[Cate8]

Well, I'm already in the kitchen, so I guess that I'm safe. ;)

Im right beside the kitchen :D

[secret_agent_amanda]

sure it is nice to have freedom of speech.. it's even nicer when people know how to restrain themselves and not post every little feeling they have about someone... :rolleyes:

of course there are people here i do not like... i ignore them! it's not really that hard..


Oooooooh...I think I get it now. It was the post the people you hate thread that pissed skip off, then?

[babyhellfire]

Did I miss some huge blow out? and extra nastiness?

Or just as it seems a sudden decision to axe the place and some members??
seriously, I am not trying to sound snarky I just feel like I must have missed some serious drama and now I have no idea wtf is going on.

[Unknown American]

I will support HF and Skip regardless of any decisions about RT.

I feel I need to point out that although I do not know what happened with the small number of members. Nor does that matter...

I think fitzy has done a fine job moderating RT. It would be hard to find such a dedicated Mod. He has been fair and reasonable with a lot of people. He always answered pm's.

Find a place for fitzy. A Mod without a Modland is a sad thing.

[Aristartle]

I love it when people contribute more to the content here.

I think I was fairly lenient and often turned a blind eye to some things against my better judgment, all in a spirit of 'shooting the shit' style of discourse.

I tolerate on a personal level, very well. And for the past month, I have experienced more accusations and personal attacks than I have for the entire time that I have been a member here.

I am convinced that Hip Forums will be a better place without the RT.

[Skip]

I just want to commend those who've posted their thoughts here on this issue. You've shown more maturity than normally displayed in RT. I'm glad so many of you agree that it got out of hand. That's a good sign. If you can see how RT was hurting the forums, then you understand why the actions were taken. And there is hope for this site. :)

[Fyrenza]

I love it when people contribute more to the content here.


Well, i mean,

how much "quality content" do the sex forums provide?

Then there's the member that has a naked woman, with shaved pubes, that only JUST doesn't show the pink.

Is that the first impression you'd want folks to have of hip forums?

Or some of the other forums, that address the MIXING of potent, illegal and/or unprescribed drugs, and the "high" experienced, including, i presume, emergency room visits.

Also, i think if you look at the number of peeps that were upset BEFORE the closure, (the one's reporting the posts),

and the number of us that are upset AFTERwards,

it might have been a better plan to tell the folks that were offended and upset by that forum to go into some of the other forums here.

It isn't like you haven't provided a place for pretty much EVERYONE, right? ;)

[lode]

For the record, libel and slander law will only apply to things which could be proven or disproven, and have a negative effect on someones carrer or livelihood. Like if you insinuate someones a child molester that can be proven or disproven on the basis of whether they molest children, so saying so would be slander. But if you say someones a bitch, it is free speech no matter how hard they sue or how many lawyers they have, because bitch is not an acusation.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html

I feel I may have been partially responsible for the downfall of random thoughts, for being far to open with my feelings in a forum which I felt invited it. Perhaps I felt a misunderstanding about what skip thought that forum should be about.

However, while I feel some posters encouraged an environment which might be discouraged, such as that ganjaking guy, I felt that forum also had a diversity and honesty that no other forum here really consistently matches. And in fact the somewhat controversial nature of this forum helped me in some ways cement my own opinions better. I felt the diatribe there was, after wading through the slease of random thought was more sophistacated than anywhere else on this site by far, so much so that it is my reason to coming to this site.

Skip, it is your site, and you have your perogative to maintain it in a way that you see as your vision, and if you feel the need to manage it in a way to retain that vision it's your right. However, I think the personalities here have created a life beyond your vision which is neither negative or positive. It's simply vibrant. I honestly don't believe you when you say you are impersonal of descions you make here. I think you take it as tempromentally as a greek god, randomly throwing lightning bolts down because it's your vision.

But I think it's evolved in ways you don't appreciate. I'll post a few of my threads which I feel have real value just to make my point. Not to say at all mine were the only ones with value, they were just easier to look up.

I respect you and the community your trying to create, but with stiffled dialouge, I don't think it's the community for me. I would rather have a coarse community with diverse open conversation than polite hippie friendly banter about the same 11 topics ad infinitum, which this site will return to without random thoughts, and I think your desicion is deleterious to the nature of a free speech site.

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=325228&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=346752&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=342320&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=327060&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=319711&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=319307&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=311905&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=302500&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=281234&f=51

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-Noam Chompsky.

All the best in acheving your vision skip. But I think you're wrong about this.

[Aristartle]

Well, i mean,

how much "quality content" do the sex forums provide?

Then there's the member that has a naked woman, with shaved pubes, that only JUST doesn't show the pink.

Is that the first impression you'd want folks to have of hip forums?

Or some of the other forums, that address the MIXING of potent, illegal and/or unprescribed drugs, and the "high" experienced, including, i presume, emergency room visits.

Also, i think if you look at the number of peeps that were upset BEFORE the closure, (the one's reporting the posts),

and the number of us that are upset AFTERwards,

it might have been a better plan to tell the folks that were offended and upset by that forum to go into some of the other forums here.

It isn't like you haven't provided a place for pretty much EVERYONE, right? ;)

What is the point that you are trying to make, Wendy? I'm confused.

The Sex Forums isn't RT. The Marijuana section is also not the RT.

Going to another Forum is not a viable solution if our members were harbouring banned posters to continue to post with aliases, something that I have seen many posters do, quite recently.

The ignore feature does not exist because members should all be taught to ignore each other, nor should the other members be forced to use the feature to eliminate half of the postings going on within a subforum.

The issue at hand, is that RTers have been given numerous warnings, ample understanding and leniency from moderators, and yet there continues to be a persistent problem with the inherit nature of the posts & threads there.

Asking someone nicely to go somewhere else to post their babble and banter only works until the next incident arises, which in RT time is approximately every 20.7658 minutes.

[lode]

I would still contend Aris, that even when the cult of personality of RT ran too far...

The political content was less abecedarian , the art talk was more comprehensive, and the entire atmosphere was more inclusive than anywhere here.

Just my opinion.

[Tisha Mc]

So, I'm just wondering. Are heated debates gone? I'm kinda confused what it is that was the problem. Are we free to debate as long as we don't attack someone personally? Can we attack their ideas if it pertains to the debate? I have to admit. Debating is one of the reasons that I like it here so much. I am willing to adhere to the rules. I just want to make sure that I'm clear on them.

[Unknown American]

I don't know where to hang out now. :(



That's what I want to know.

I am not sure I fit anywhere else.

RT had some good. I will miss it and think it sucks that it ii gone becase of the actions of a few.

There I said it. I have also posted that I support this site regardless of RT.

I will adapt and go on now.

[Tisha Mc]

Now where do I post my random thoughts? For they are many. *sigh*

[Face Eater]

I've read through a fair bit of this thread and I must say I'm fairly disgusted at the fairly spineless willingness of people, especially people who rarely if ever post in RT, to simply take Skip's claims at face value. I've never quite understood the "Whatever you feel needs to be done should be done because you're the boss" attitude and I believe that it is an attitude born out of a desire for convenience and belonging.

Skip, I completely respect your opinions in the light that they are opinions, but that is about it. As creator, moderator, leader, whatever, whatever you have to say is only about as valid as the content, and I personally disagree with a lot of it. You are the boss, and you've done a fantastic thing in creating and maintaining this site, and what you say goes, yes I've got it, comprehende, I'll deal with it, but personally I just don't think you appreciate what sort of place RT was for people. But being an RT regular I am most likely a jerk so what do I know.

I posted this in another thread and I doubt its going to do very much to change anybody's mind, but this is my two cents. Hopefully, along with the great arguments of people like lode, it might do the teeniest to help you understand life from the point of view of somebody that revelled in RT.

Well, that was my hissy fit. Unlike various instances in the past I'm going to attempt to be mature and rational about this. I suppose it is because I have been absent for long periods, but after posting here a fair amount over the last weekend I must say that this is completely unexpected. Even though I have sensed a general amount of over-negativity in RT for some time, especially from regulars, which is why I tend not to want to be here as often as I used to, I haven't really observed many major breaches of the forum guidelines. Personally, even though I might post some highly offensive material, which I would be willing to tone down if I was warned, I try to keep my thread titles accurate and I haven't seen anyone else do otherwise. As far as "keeping to the discussion" goes, well I don't particularly see the point of keeping tabs on such a thing because going "off topic " is the nature of discussion, online or anywhere else, but that is my opinion.

As far as personal attacks go, well yeah, some of them have been a little bit more overt than usual lately and I suppose the bad ones have been erased, but I've seen nothing that can be compared to bullying, or nothing particularly worth worrying over. It seems the people that get attacked generally can hold their own well enough, and are pretty willing to throw even worse insults back in return.

Personally, I've always been happy here and I have never seen RT as something that is particularly broken. In fact, its probably the most functioning, fun and dynamic forum on this website and most importantly it is a community, and while a lot of its members are often catty, offensive and irreverent, I think that underneath all the chaos there are hundreds of solid friendships that have been formed. This is a place where freaks, outcasts and those with a genuine distaste for anything conventional can actually speak their mind and feel as if they fit in. There is a marvellous mixture of people too. I think its fantastic that a forum exists in which hippies, conspiracy fiends, punks, meat eaters, vegetarians, nudists, christians, moderates and conservatives can joke and laugh side by side. While I find RT a place in which insults are thrown around carelessly, it is probably the forum where you're least likely to get any sort of doctrine shoved down your throat, and if you're willing to take everything as light heartedly as possible, its easy to fit in. Perhaps I am too much of an optimist, or a pragmatist. Perhaps I'm showing so much sympathy towards RT because I always found it so easy to fit in here, but I also think that as I am growing older, I am discovering a tolerance and an appreciation of all colours of humanity within myself, and all manner of behaviours, especially those of healthy disrespect and anarchy. I think the reason why I fit in to RT is because I am tolerant, and as long as others practice the same sort of tolerance towards me I'm generally light hearted about everything, and I think a lot of the regulars here are the same way, even more so.

Perhaps this is a biased and egalitarian call to make, but I have never liked the style of the more powerful moderators here. While I appreciate the hard work they put in, and the fact that they have to deal with genuine douchebags on a daily basis, I really don't think they share a healthy respect for humanity, its spontanaeity, its varying beliefs, its erratic behaviour, its RIGHT to be whoever it wants to be. It is pretty transparent in Skip's arguments that the RT shutdowns are rarely about people not following the forum guidelines, especially this time, but are more about the atmosphere and mood of RT not fitting in with the rigid party lines of the "hippie subculture". Well, of course thats perfectly okay with me. It's Skip's site, and it is a hippie website, and most of us just aint hippies.

But let me just offer this insight: As an RT insider, as someone who has been able to take something of value from the forum, I find it disappointing that Skip and the other supermoderators don't realise how much of a gift that they have given to people like us. While I know that a lot of us abuse the gift, and I will admit that is half the problem, I think the other half of the problem is that the moderators just don't see the beauty of RT, and what is for a large group of people a community, a place to fit in, a loose web of interweaving friendships that can sometimes be as tight as those in real life, is simply a waste of time to them. I suppose it is all a matter of taste, and in a place where a small group of people have the ultimate say over thousands of others, the taste of that few will win out in the end. We have to live with that, and perhaps that is the price we have to pay for having a site to go to that isn't dripping with the kind of scum that infest the halls of 4chan, but a lot of people have lost something that they value, and I wonder how much those people actually matter to the moderators.

I understand that everything I just wrote was incredibly biased, and probably a little extreme, but it is a point of view, and I don't think it can be rendered any less valid by the fact that I am not a moderator and I don't have any power. The one gripe I have always had with hipforums is that power tends to be the deciding factor above truth, and that is something completely un-hippie as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: Also, its a pain in the ass to post something in some of the more specialized forums and have to wait four days for a reply. I know its "not hipforums" but RT was bustling and facilitated real conversation, and we all liked it.

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I don't get it?

Why is anyone paying for the upkeep of this site?

Plenty of free messageboard hosting places out there, where content rules are relaxed or pretty much non existant

Banning people?

Changing email, Changing IP, Using a proxy, Someone wants to get back in, they are going to get back in

[orison319]

Id rather get the carpal tunnel from rolling joints..

[pixel69]

:grouphug:

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I didnt see the pic of the fat dude, seems to be gone now.

I had to laugh that that angry dragon pic is still there.

I mean, I'm gay, 37, hardly naive, but that thing even shocked me, never heard of what an "angry dragon" is let alone having to see a chick sneeze baby juice and like an inhuman amount of it. LOL

[odon]

and make a lot of really lame jokes.

Some of it was funny when they were here. But most of it was REALLY LAME.

[jamaican_youth]

I totally changed my mind when I saw what TGK posted. I assumed he got the boot for something else. I feel a bit sick for supporting him now and feeling bad he was gone, now that I know what really happened.

Can someone fill me in?

[OlderWaterBrother]

Just a thought. If this place 'twas mine, I'd create one basically un-moderated place for folks to go to post just such nonsense, with a warning label attached. (Maybe I'd even call it "Random Thoughts 2"...) You would post at your own risk. The real nuts would WANT to go there because they could say anything they wanted all day long without fear of scolding or banning. And if ya didn't like what was going on there, ya go someplace else. No muss, no fuss, everybody's happy. AND I'd make a separate place for the personal forums all together. Again, post at your own risk because the ONLY mod would be the person whose forum it was.

This would all be extremely FAIR and BALANCED, and a lot of problems and drama would be put to rest.This sounds good but there could be massive legal problems and I'd feel sorry for the Mod that would have to wade though it.

[OlderWaterBrother]

An insight to modding RT:

RT was moderated - not strictly to the rules and regulations of the forums, at least from my part. I didn't go out of my way to mod every little break of the rules. No one would post if I did that. I cleaned up the titles - deleted them when necessary - or even if the OP pm'd me about it, sometimes restored it with a new title. I didn't want to be seen as an extreme moderator who made rash decisions based on emotions that were all over the place. I didn't care much if a thread went off topic. Spam was removed quickly in most cases. Unless a reported post was a gross violation of the rules, I rarely acted on it - it was the nature of RT - I wasn't going to try to change the way RT worked. Personal attacks, yea, at times they got out of hand, especially the past couple of days. But for the most part, those "personal attacks" were between friends just shooting the shit with each other. Not to say there weren't any real attacks going on, beacuse there were...but they were few and far between the regular banter that went on each day. So yea, that could have been handled with better...

I was open with the members of RT - it didn't bother me to be asked why I deleted/closed a thread - I didn't like the secracy of some of the moderators when I wasn't a mod - so I wasn't going to be like that, I was going to be open with what I did if asked in a tasteful manner.

I'll take some of the blame for the downfall, for I was part of it as well. I participated in some personal attacks - I've let things go far beyond where it should have been stopped. I worked hard to keep a balance, but yea, at times it can spiral out. I joked around a lot about my powers with the RT members, had some fun with it. Maybe i shouldn't have done that...who knows. But for what its worth, I wouldn't change how I moderated RT at all.

-fitzyDon't beat yourself up over it. you can't be everywhere at once. The few forays I made into RT I noticed that it got carried away a bit and didn't go there if I wasn't ready for it but I never noticed that you did a bad job as a moderator. In fact what you post here about how you handled being a moderator is the way I always thought it should be done, just saying.

[odon]

Sorry, the thread derailment was my fault. Apologies to all.

Wasn't your fault I could have left you thinking what you thought already.

[earthmother]

I'd say what I really think about this, but I'd be banned instantly.

I never spent much time on RT 'cause I thought it was just a sort of juvenile and silly place mostly. Not my cup of tea. So, WHY THE HECK COULDN'T OTHER FOLKS DO THE SAME IF THEY HAD A PROBLEM WITH IT? It's not like it's the only forum on hip forums...

Not sure I understand why people with thin skins need to be molly-coddled just so they could STAND it there. I've seen a lot worse things going on in the politics forum...

I had a similar problem on my blog site. I found that if you have a specific place for people to VENT or RAMBLE or INSULT, or whatever they think they need to do (I called it the "Trash Can"), and don't allow that sort of thing anywhere else BUT there, eventually the idiots give up and leave. I simply DELETE the most serious slanderous stuff once a day. But in the meantime, that particular place gets THE MOST HITS OF ALL. Which means the majority LIKES the stupid drama. For whatever reason.

Now for all the stuff I WON'T say for FEAR of banning...














There. Gee, that feels better.

[ChronicTom]

I'm sure you will find that skip doesn't get paid per hit... he pays for the bandwidth, plus the storage of everything here, including RT.

When it gets to the point that one forum is doing nothing but contributing stress and costing money, as it generates most of the traffic (as people seem fond of claiming), it becomes not worthwhile.

As for all those who claim foul over this... Skip didn't leave you hanging, he left you with another option;

Secondly. If you don't like the way this forum is run, leave immediately, and don't ever come back.

Funny thing is... personal attacks was one of the issue he mentioned...

look at how some people responded to it... by making attacks...


lol, I said this in response to another thread... but it definately fits here...

Fucking priceless

[Oz!]

So.. a bunch of people formed a "community", talked about anything and everything for years. Then got so bored that the only thing left to do of interest was to destroy what they had created.

Seems natural enough to me.

Cya RT .... the Hippie in me can't respect ya for pissing in Skip's sandpit... but the old Punk in me will remember ya fondly for it :peace:

[ChronicTom]

So.. a bunch of people formed a "community", talked about anything and everything for years. Then got so bored that the only thing left to do of interest was to destroy what they had created.

Seems natural enough to me.

That is probably the best assessment of the situation yet...

[Bella Désordre]

I think you are right on and always did an awesome job. You're right, people shouldn't have to ignore others. It's like what your grandma used to say 'If you don't have anything nice (or non-insulting, non-racist, and non-homophobe) to say than don't say anything at all. It's common sense.
What is the point that you are trying to make, Wendy? I'm confused.

The Sex Forums isn't RT. The Marijuana section is also not the RT.

Going to another Forum is not a viable solution if our members were harbouring banned posters to continue to post with aliases, something that I have seen many posters do, quite recently.

The ignore feature does not exist because members should all be taught to ignore each other, nor should the other members be forced to use the feature to eliminate half of the postings going on within a subforum.

The issue at hand, is that RTers have been given numerous warnings, ample understanding and leniency from moderators, and yet there continues to be a persistent problem with the inherit nature of the posts & threads there.

Asking someone nicely to go somewhere else to post their babble and banter only works until the next incident arises, which in RT time is approximately every 20.7658 minutes.

[Bella Désordre]

Pretty much. It ended up so icky, look how little posts there are here compared to how many Random Thoughts posters there were. I know a large number of people are glad.
So.. a bunch of people formed a "community", talked about anything and everything for years. Then got so bored that the only thing left to do of interest was to destroy what they had created.

Seems natural enough to me.

Cya RT .... the Hippie in me can't respect ya for pissing in Skip's sandpit... but the old Punk in me will remember ya fondly for it :peace:

[mamaKCita]

For the record, libel and slander law will only apply to things which could be proven or disproven, and have a negative effect on someones carrer or livelihood. Like if you insinuate someones a child molester that can be proven or disproven on the basis of whether they molest children, so saying so would be slander. But if you say someones a bitch, it is free speech no matter how hard they sue or how many lawyers they have, because bitch is not an acusation.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html

I feel I may have been partially responsible for the downfall of random thoughts, for being far to open with my feelings in a forum which I felt invited it. Perhaps I felt a misunderstanding about what skip thought that forum should be about.

However, while I feel some posters encouraged an environment which might be discouraged, such as that ganjaking guy, I felt that forum also had a diversity and honesty that no other forum here really consistently matches. And in fact the somewhat controversial nature of this forum helped me in some ways cement my own opinions better. I felt the diatribe there was, after wading through the slease of random thought was more sophistacated than anywhere else on this site by far, so much so that it is my reason to coming to this site.

Skip, it is your site, and you have your perogative to maintain it in a way that you see as your vision, and if you feel the need to manage it in a way to retain that vision it's your right. However, I think the personalities here have created a life beyond your vision which is neither negative or positive. It's simply vibrant. I honestly don't believe you when you say you are impersonal of descions you make here. I think you take it as tempromentally as a greek god, randomly throwing lightning bolts down because it's your vision.

But I think it's evolved in ways you don't appreciate. I'll post a few of my threads which I feel have real value just to make my point. Not to say at all mine were the only ones with value, they were just easier to look up.

I respect you and the community your trying to create, but with stiffled dialouge, I don't think it's the community for me. I would rather have a coarse community with diverse open conversation than polite hippie friendly banter about the same 11 topics ad infinitum, which this site will return to without random thoughts, and I think your desicion is deleterious to the nature of a free speech site.

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=325228&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=346752&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=342320&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=327060&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=319711&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=319307&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=311905&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=302500&f=51
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=281234&f=51

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-Noam Chompsky.

All the best in acheving your vision skip. But I think you're wrong about this.


i applaud you. well stated from start to finish. i agree completely.

[mamaKCita]

I think you are right on and always did an awesome job. You're right, people shouldn't have to ignore others. It's like what your grandma used to say 'If you don't have anything nice (or non-insulting, non-racist, and non-homophobe) to say than don't say anything at all. It's common sense.

turning over a new leaf?

i'll give it a shot, but people should avoid each other when they just plain don't get along. i think that's what the ignore function is for. since something someone says is alway gonna irritate the living crap outta someone. some people just don't get along.

[mamaKCita]

I'd say what I really think about this, but I'd be banned instantly.

I never spent much time on RT 'cause I thought it was just a sort of juvenile and silly place mostly. Not my cup of tea. So, WHY THE HECK COULDN'T OTHER FOLKS DO THE SAME IF THEY HAD A PROBLEM WITH IT? It's not like it's the only forum on hip forums...

Not sure I understand why people with thin skins need to be molly-coddled just so they could STAND it there. I've seen a lot worse things going on in the politics forum...

I had a similar problem on my blog site. I found that if you have a specific place for people to VENT or RAMBLE or INSULT, or whatever they think they need to do (I called it the "Trash Can"), and don't allow that sort of thing anywhere else BUT there, eventually the idiots give up and leave. I simply DELETE the most serious slanderous stuff once a day. But in the meantime, that particular place gets THE MOST HITS OF ALL. Which means the majority LIKES the stupid drama. For whatever reason.

Now for all the stuff I WON'T say for FEAR of banning...














There. Gee, that feels better.


right? there's all kinds of places i stay out of because i'm not gonna fit there or am unwelcome. it's like telling bar owners they can't have a smoking section because nonsmokers want to party there. why can't the nonsmokers go somewhere else? i know i'm not going to go to a cafe in amsterdam, but i think it's perfectly acceptable for them to do business however they see fit.

but again, it's skips barbeque and that's that. if things get totally unacceptable, i'll just wander along and thanks for the memories. i really appreciate it. but remember, people are gonna piss each other off and propagating a space where people only backstab and shit talk in private isn't an honest, diverse community, it's a small town with a cancer lingering behind it's quaint mask.

[stinkfoot]

But maybe what could've been done is that mods were clearer on site policy.And posters were clearer on site policy from hearing that from them.

RT was very , very , very popular.And didn't usually cause big offence.Recent times , it seems to have changed its skew with *some*people.Regular posters are the lifeblood of a site.
RT worked because people chatted about all manner of topics.
In comparison , the other areas of the site don't have that *chatting* /general chitchat , getting to know people feel.Nor can they really expect to.

Excuse me? Mods clearer on policy? The only way to have been clearer would have been to stifle the nonsense- which we certainly should have done- undoubtedly amid protests of censorship and our heavy-handed abridging everyone's "right" to free speech. We let things go way too loosely- for my part assuming (quite incorrectly) that the older memberships would be mindful of when RT had been closed before and would help moderate discussion by steering threads back on topic and not providing response and an audience to the personal attacks and useless GARBAGE that essentially vandalized the forum. We have lives like everyone else and to properly moderate we'd have to devote all our time to it. At some point I made the decision that if RT was determined to self destruct, the best thing I could to was just to let it run its course and not continue enabling things to go as they were by covering up what folks were willfully doing in the face of sticky threads and always available forum guidelines for reference. You want a babysitter? Go elsewhere.

By the way, one of the cancers in RT was the tendency of people to veer threads off topic... and this has happened here. I've trimmed the crap and brought things back on topic. Have a problem with this? Too damned bad!

[mamaKCita]

i really do feel for you, stink. we got all full of the nasties and pretty much everyone got into it, even the ones who protested the nastiness. it's hard not to get sucked down into the miasma when you're pissed. much better to keep the folks to their personal forums where most won't post unless they're specifically getting along with the forum "owner."

[Jaitaiyai]

By the way, one of the cancers in RT was the tendency of people to veer threads off topic... and this has happened here. I've trimmed the crap and brought things back on topic. Have a problem with this? Too damned bad!This wasn't a cancer of RT, this happens in nearly every thread I've ever read regardless of which forum it was from. The only time it doesn't happen is when the place is dead.

RT seemed pretty tame compared to actual unmoderated boards but I don't know if all the ruckus happened while I wasn't there or if I just never noticed.

[Bella Désordre]

Nope, I've always been anti-homophobe, anti-racism and anti-hatefulness.turning over a new leaf?

i'll give it a shot, but people should avoid each other when they just plain don't get along. i think that's what the ignore function is for. since something someone says is alway gonna irritate the living crap outta someone. some people just don't get along.

[mystical_shroom]

I think you are right on and always did an awesome job. You're right, people shouldn't have to ignore others. It's like what your grandma used to say 'If you don't have anything nice (or non-insulting, non-racist, and non-homophobe) to say than don't say anything at all. It's common sense.

Huh, weren't you the one who made threads about other members and totally said awful things to instigate and to start things..? Yes, I do remember you did do that.

I just had to say that, I just don't understand why you act as though it is everyone else...Because you had your hand in it too...

RT is gone, it is sad but I don't think anything will bring it back, it's not like last time, it is probably gone forever..

[jamaican_youth]

Nope, I've always been anti-homophobe, anti-racism and anti-hatefulness.

You could just say anti-hatefulness and that would cover it all.

[OlderWaterBrother]

By the way, one of the cancers in RT was the tendency of people to veer threads off topic... I agree with Jaitaiyai, after a while all threads tend to veer off, that seems to be a natural tendency of conversation and debate but to me Hi-jacking is another thing altogether, where someone deliberately changes the subject and the whole conversation takes a sudden left turn. But sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference and I know that must be hard on the mods.

[Bella Désordre]

It's not my fault if another member assumes a thread I make is about him/her. I can't control other people's thoughts and don't want to.Huh, weren't you the one who made threads about other members and totally said awful things to instigate and to start things..? Yes, I do remember you did do that.

I just had to say that, I just don't understand why you act as though it is everyone else...Because you had your hand in it too...

RT is gone, it is sad but I don't think anything will bring it back, it's not like last time, it is probably gone forever..

[mystical_shroom]

Haha, wow...:rolleyes:

[babyhellfire]

It's not my fault if another member assumes a thread I make is about him/her. I can't control other people's thoughts and don't want to.
...right.


UGH. Just because you never name names and don't outright call someone a cuntlicker when you insult their mental health, parenting ,life ( -and so on) doesn't make it any less insulting.
Actually ,TBH I am far more insulted by shit like that.

[Bella Désordre]

I sorted that thread out with a mod. I am not going to engage in this anymore. isn't this why RT was closed?...right.


UGH. Just because you never name names and don't outright call someone a cuntlicker when you insult their mental health, parenting ,life ( -and so on) doesn't make it any less insulting.
Actually ,TBH I am far more insulted by shit like that.

[Carlfloydfan]

SUE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU for defamation of character, etc. And we will back them 100%.

For the record, libel and slander law will only apply to things which could be proven or disproven, and have a negative effect on someones carrer or livelihood. Like if you insinuate someones a child molester that can be proven or disproven on the basis of whether they molest children, so saying so would be slander. But if you say someones a bitch, it is free speech no matter how hard they sue or how many lawyers they have, because bitch is not an acusation.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html


Important part of the post.

Of course, there was the whole Dimeo debacle a few years ago which you can look at too. He tried to sue a message board for stuff that was being said about him. It was a massive failure on his part and huge step in the right direction for freedom of speech. I saw some of the things posted on that forum, and most of what is found here, is tame compared to this other board!

Not that I condone attacks or anything of that nature. But I can not see any lawyer wasting their time with most of the stuff on here, which are basic run of the mill attacks (trust me). Only if it is really serious. Dimeo proved to be a joke and it set the bar high, as far as proving what constitutes an attack/slander on the internet and what does not.

[Carlfloydfan]

I will approach the problems of RT from a slightly different angle.

RT was a good idea in theory, but it was bogged down by to much craziness and lack of structure.

If people had continued to post their random thoughts, I don't think there would have been to much of a problem, beyond the occasional need for moderation. However, the problem arose once the threads themselves were started with a specific subject. People were unable to stay on topic and ruined many perfectly good threads. Instead of posting another random thought thread, people diverted the topic at hand for no apparent reason, quite rapidly sometimes. Or, people partook in countless conversations within the thread, that would have been better served in a chat room.

Ideally, we could post what ever the hell was on our mind. Than, folks would come in, read what we said and either move on, or respond to our thoughts with similar stories and/or opinions. This did not happen and plenty of great threads were derailed into the depths of stupidity. RT lacked focus.

I like what this message board has to say too, as it describes RT very well in some respects. I think this behavior, described below, also ties in with my first point above, as far as personal discussions within peoples threads.:

"...If this board becomes your social life and you start living through here, I will ban you. This place is meant as entertainment .... intended to give people a fun diversion from work or school. IT IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR A NORMAL SOCIAL LIFE. Seriously people, if you become one of those gossipy whores/dorks that lived and died for drama .... I will not hesitate to get rid of you. Have fun, but do not base your social life around this place."


RT had potential, alas, it wasn't even worth the bandwidth (or whatever) considering the content...

[lode]

I respect you and the community your trying to create, but with stiffled dialouge, I don't think it's the community for me. I would rather have a coarse community with diverse open conversation than polite hippie friendly banter about the same 11 topics ad infinitum, which this site will return to without random thoughts, and I think your desicion is deleterious to the nature of a free speech site.

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=325228&f=51 (http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=325228&f=51)
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=346752&f=51 (http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=346752&f=51)
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=342320&f=51 (http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=342320&f=51)
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=327060&f=51 (http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=327060&f=51)
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=319711&f=51 (http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=319711&f=51)
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=319307&f=51 (http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=319307&f=51)
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=311905&f=51 (http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=311905&f=51)
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=302500&f=51 (http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=302500&f=51)
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=281234&f=51 (http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=281234&f=51)


To refine my point a little, here are the responses I got from trying to post serious issues in areas of the site which invited it.

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=313413&f=36
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=303091&page=2
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=187515&f=36
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=16644&f=36
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=183447&f=36

I'm pretty much done with my argument right there.

[rambleON]

hey, lets get over it. rt is done. go cry somewhere eles.

[IamnotaMan]

Excuse me? Mods clearer on policy? The only way to have been clearer would have been to stifle the nonsense- which we certainly should have done- undoubtedly amid protests of censorship and our heavy-handed abridging everyone's "right" to free speech. We let things go way too loosely- for my part assuming (quite incorrectly) that the older memberships would be mindful of when RT had been closed before and would help moderate discussion by steering threads back on topic and not providing response and an audience to the personal attacks and useless GARBAGE that essentially vandalized the forum. We have lives like everyone else and to properly moderate we'd have to devote all our time to it. At some point I made the decision that if RT was determined to self destruct, the best thing I could to was just to let it run its course and not continue enabling things to go as they were by covering up what folks were willfully doing in the face of sticky threads and always available forum guidelines for reference. You want a babysitter? Go elsewhere.

!

Like I said somewhere, I'm not criticising u or Fitzy or any day to day mods.I think u did a great job.
I was happy with the leaving RT to largely operate itself.But obviously Skip chose to kill it off.And there were differences on what its objectives should be.

What I mean is , that I'm just a bit baffled.Yeah I know some people werent happy with some posters.But it went from business as usual , to dead in the space of well 1 second.I don't even know what the overriding factor was.The anti-hippy comments ( basically a laugh)?The comments which someone suggested were slanderous?Or the fact some newbies (+others) didn't like the banter style?Or sthg else?

RT was put into history by Skip , but before this thread , I had no exact idea what he wanted or didn't on it.I dont really recall reading any comments from Skip on it , while RT was there.

[Jaitaiyai]

hey, lets get over it. rt is done. go cry somewhere eles.Free speech? :rolleyes:

[orison319]

Not that I condone attacks or anything of that nature. But I can not see any lawyer wasting their time with most of the stuff on here, which are basic run of the mill attacks (trust me). Only if it is really serious. Dimeo proved to be a joke and it set the bar high, as far as proving what constitutes an attack/slander on the internet and what does not.
It appears you have never seen the Dr Phil show... That will be the day when HF is dragged onto his show like MySpace.. :rolleyes:

[Cherea]

Well that is part of the issue. Unfortunately I've had to ban some supporters today, but that is a small price to pay. As it stands now this site is just a black hole for my own money. Only one month in more than 10 years has this site paid for itself. And that month I had to beg to keep the site alive.That has really been my question all along. I don't think this whole debate would have gotten started if this site was doing well economically.

So how did RT compromise the economic viability of the site? Advertisers and supporters were less willing to cough up the dough?

We know that successful websites need traffic, and RT generated the most traffic in Hipforums as a whole. But maybe there is something I don't know. :confused:

[Cherea]

My final point is that the sectarianism and personal attacks is pretty consistent throughout the site.

Since I've started using it, I noticed that - aside from RT - the drug and sex-related forums, alongside the dreadlocks forums generated the most traffic.

AND, the users of each of those forums hardly interacted with other subforums at all. So I think accusing RT of not being a part of the larger cyber-community is prejudiced.

In the dreadlocks forum people were asking inane personal questions about mom and dad too. Only the posters there were ONLY interested in the input of people who lay claim to a certain hairstyle. Same with the Stoners Lounge.

Additionally, the times I ventured out into these other forums, I was not welcomed. That's why I personally chose to use RT to a greater extent, because I'm just not OK with the idea of shutting myself into some kind of ideological ghetto.

So, the accusations leveled against RT:

a) vacuous threads;
b) that RTers were not a part of a larger community;
c) personal attacks and distasteful content.

Are all part and parcel of the drug, sex, and hippie forums as well, IMO. I understand this is an ideology-informed site so Skip might want to restrict its users to hippie-friendly people.

But why pretend this is about anything other than partiality toward a certain community over others?

I think RT went because RTers are here primarily for entertainment. Not to further their intellectual identity or strengthen their ties to a particular ideology.

[crummyrummy]

Moderators?
Moderator is not a paid psition so they cannot always be depended upon. The moderators of RT were basically voted upon by the members, and as I expected, wanted to be seen as part of the community and not as watchdogs. They would comment on an offense in a thread as a post as opposed to moderate it. I will miss RT. However, a lot of outright trollism was being directed at a certain individual I happened to married to, and I will be glad not to have to deal with the reality of that anymore. And to all you that are blaming her, ummm, if you didnt use her personal circumstances to publically rudicule her, she wouldnt have reported your post. Thats like a a bank robber blaming the witness for getting caught. Dont rob banks/troll if you dont wanna be called out on it.
As a former RT addict(yes it is true, and there are many) I hope this forces a few of you out there to find something productive to do, even if it is only to contribute in a healthy manner to any of the many other coversations on this web site.
I personally have not much to say, so I prove it by posting mainly in the forum games. Gives me an avenue to feel witty (I hope I actually witty) without having to actually pretend I give a fuck what people think of me.
Its the internet, you have good thing here at HF, you had a great thing in RT, but a few of you took it too far. It wasnt even pure trollism like elliot used to do, you knew not to take anything he said seriously...you refered to tragedy, RAPE specifically, as a reason for ridicule. WTF!!!!!! I have never wished rape on anybody that wasnt a convicted rapist...
In closing feel free to spam my inbox if you choose, I will most likely disregard anything you have to say if it comes in the form of an attack.
Thank you.
crummyrummy

[ROLLINGALONG]

you ever get the feeling every-one is talkin bout'ya...even though your pretty sure they aren't....right...your not talkin bout me...right...I have only been her since beginning of feb..but..i like it..i must admit that i have been posting all over the place and I did not realize some people only posted in certain areas such as RT...lastly as much as I am rebellious to Canadas drug laws I try to stay within society's generally acceptted guidelines of not bein a hurtful ass-hole when posting on the site....

[IamnotaMan]

My final point is that the sectarianism and personal attacks is pretty consistent throughout the site.

Since I've started using it, I noticed that - aside from RT - the drug and sex-related forums, alongside the dreadlocks forums generated the most traffic.

AND, the users of each of those forums hardly interacted with other subforums at all. So I think accusing RT of not being a part of the larger cyber-community is prejudiced.

In the dreadlocks forum people were asking inane personal questions about mom and dad too. Only the posters there were ONLY interested in the input of people who lay claim to a certain hairstyle. Same with the Stoners Lounge.

Additionally, the times I ventured out into these other forums, I was not welcomed. That's why I personally chose to use RT to a greater extent, because I'm just not OK with the idea of shutting myself into some kind of ideological ghetto.

So, the accusations leveled against RT:

a) vacuous threads;
b) that RTers were not a part of a larger community;
c) personal attacks and distasteful content.

Are all part and parcel of the drug, sex, and hippie forums as well, IMO. I understand this is an ideology-informed site so Skip might want to restrict its users to hippie-friendly people.

But why pretend this is about anything other than partiality toward a certain community over others?

I think RT went because RTers are here primarily for entertainment. Not to further their intellectual identity or strengthen their ties to a particular ideology.

Prax , but I think RTers have tended to be amongst the most educated people on the site.What there was , was an exchange of ideologies.And a mix of ideas amongst people who didn't all fit into pigeon holes.

It had developed its own sense collective sense of humour in some ways.
In other ways , only extremely recently did there seem to be some sort of noticeable major differences amongst visitors.Atleast from what I could see.

Altho many of us found RT very entertaining , for so many reasons.

[Ocean Bionic]

Well, I guess this means all the RT'ers are the Jews of the hipforums:
Banished from our land o' plenty and told to roam the lands on our own.
or perhaps we are like Palestinians. I can't decide.

regardless: oh, the huge manatee! oh, such irony! oh, mindless contradictions!

Alas, we have witnessed the death of freedom within the confines of a 'Hip' community, and have been threatened to silence our woefulness or face incrimination by power of 'law' (lawl!). This goes to show the true nature of humans who are unable to relinquish their grasp of ideology, be it the leaders of the community or the outspoken posters.

RT was the strength of hipforums and now it his died because of the community it was born into; a sanctuary for peace loving hippies. Peace and love. not Aggression and intolerance.

yet, that has become the very nature of hip forums. even after RTs death.

a pure contradiction.

so, I think the lesson has been learned. Can Random Thoughts be reopened out of respect for forgiveness and understanding? This would truly be the Hip thing to do, ya know?

can we work towards that?




- respect. :D

[Face Eater]

Its nice to see that some sort of sympathy is given to the fact that a large number of people actually enjoyed posting at RT and were willing to go on doing so despite what other people might construe as "offensive and disobedient" behaviour. :rolleyes: Going off topic is a cancer? I'm sorry, when you're having a conversation in the workplace and somebody suddenly makes a segue into a highly interesting or funny subject, how would you feel if your boss came down and asked you to stay on topic? How stifling, boring and repressive, and pathetically authoritarian.

I liked posting at RT, a lot of people did. A lot of people had a sense of security and a skin thick enough to be able to ignore the haters, ignore the drama and get on with their lives. Nobody was forced to post there, so I don't understand why people would have any desire to have it closed down, other than out of some personal vendetta or hatred. I hate the stoners lounge and its nonsensical ramblings, the christianity forum is full of intolerance - to christians, hippies urgh...I don't care though! The reason why those forums are in existence is because people want to post there, they feel as if they fit in, and their subjective experience is entirely different to mine. Live and let live. I have an ignore button, and I can choose not to post in forums that I do not like. If those forums were shut down because the members were all "jerks" or because the community was infected with a "cancer" or because they went "off topic", I'd be similarly disgusted and I would have every sympathy for them.

I'm tired of this conversation. It seems that all the best points are being swallowed up in pages and pages of bullshit, and the people choosing to defend the shutdown of RT, or were responsible, are seemingly stuck on frivolous, inconsequential arguments and are letting some very valid, complex, humanistic points slide by. I suppose if they did otherwise they might have to take some responsibility for their actions and feel empathy, or even tolerance, and that just wouldn't be convenient.

Again, its not my site, the only thing I can do is deal with it and move on with my life, but free speech my fucking ass.

[Ocean Bionic]

If those forums were shut down because the members were all "jerks" or because the community was infected with a "cancer" or because they went "off topic", I'd be similarly disgusted and I would have every sympathy for them.


this is funny, because I remember all those anonymous guys showed up and the left a trail of total destruction. most of the stuff they posted was just vile, yet they were allowed in.

and now we're all being 'excommunicated' because one person went out for a little street justice?

I fail to see logic here.

but if nothing will be done, fuggit... ill just grow out some narly dreadlocks and join in on that part of the community. :rolleyes:*

*no disrespect to the dreadies. those some chill mofos.

[mudpuddle]

RT Seemed to be Getting a mob mentality from a Handful of Regulars that Posted there...

Personaly I Found it Difficult to Contribute to many Threads on there as the Threads were Abstract...

I know this was "Random Thoughts" but it seemed to be Certain Other Posters Playroom...No Room for Outsiders...

Perhaps Now lesser Forums on this Site will get some more Traffic...Or Not...

RT isn't what Hipforums is all About y'know...

Where is the Peace & Love?

:D

[Ocean Bionic]

i don't think Hipforums understands what Hipforums is about.


























wait.. huh?

[FireflyInTheDark]

Just a thought. If this place 'twas mine, I'd create one basically un-moderated place for folks to go to post just such nonsense, with a warning label attached. (Maybe I'd even call it "Random Thoughts 2"...) You would post at your own risk. The real nuts would WANT to go there because they could say anything they wanted all day long without fear of scolding or banning. And if ya didn't like what was going on there, ya go someplace else. No muss, no fuss, everybody's happy. AND I'd make a separate place for the personal forums all together. Again, post at your own risk because the ONLY mod would be the person whose forum it was.

This would all be extremely FAIR and BALANCED, and a lot of problems and drama would be put to rest.

There is already a place for this. It's called 4chan. I have to admit. I was avoiding RT for a while because it started to remind me a little bit too much of 4chan and those Anons that were here a few months back. At least with the anons, though, there was a language all their own that you could get a handle on if you paid attention and, underneath it all, a sense of camaraderie and common purpose.
RT was just becoming a bunch of nastiness to be nasty... A mean part of town I didn't want to visit anymore. It made me very sad, because I used to go a lot more when the atmosphere was at least semi-respectful. I mean, it wasn't made for the express purpose of ripping people down. It was made for random thoughts. Simple enough. Fun thing in theory, but somehow it changed and some dark thing took over...
I'm going to be honest. I'm glad Skip stepped in. Absolute free speech is a childhood fantasy. The real world isn't painted in black and white like that. There are other factors to consider here. Obviously there are things I disagree with, but I am willing to compromise to keep this site healthy. I want it to stay.
I'm behind you, Skip. That's my opinion.

[FireflyInTheDark]

RT Seemed to be Getting a mob mentality from a Handful of Regulars that Posted there...

I know this was "Random Thoughts" but it seemed to be Certain Other Posters Playroom...No Room for Outsiders...


^^^THIS^^^

[Ocean Bionic]

There is already a place for this. It's called 4chan. I have to admit. I was avoiding RT for a while because it started to remind me a little bit too much of 4chan and those Anons that were here a few months back. At least with the anons, though, there was a language all their own that you could get a handle on if you paid attention and, underneath it all, a sense of camaraderie and common purpose.
RT was just becoming a bunch of nastiness to be nasty... A mean part of town I didn't want to visit anymore. It made me very sad, because I used to go a lot more when the atmosphere was at least semi-respectful. I mean, it wasn't made for the express purpose of ripping people down. It was made for random thoughts. Simple enough. Fun thing in theory, but somehow it changed and some dark thing took over...
I'm going to be honest. I'm glad Skip stepped in. Absolute free speech is a childhood fantasy. The real world isn't painted in black and white like that. There are other factors to consider here. Obviously there are things I disagree with, but I am willing to compromise to keep this site healthy. I want it to stay.
I'm behind you, Skip. That's my opinion.

you are aware that Skip actually allowed a bunch of those Anon guys to have their own sub-forum here. the trash they posted is way more repulsive than anything you could find in RT. they even mocked RT'ers for not being able to handle the Chan humor.

[FireflyInTheDark]

Heh, yes I did know that. It's the only way I would have been able to make the comparison, since I was never in a position to observe Anons do what they do. I said it reminded me of it. It wasn't exactly the same, but frighteningly similar nevertheless. There was just a pointless cruelty to it...

[Ocean Bionic]

perhaps it was the anons that set the vibe. I always speculated that it set a spark flying into the RT gas tank.

i mean, when that was allowed into an environment of hooligans, what do you expect? aware of it or not, I think some took it as a sign that RT was a place where anything could go.

[jo_k_er_man]

I support this site.. but if you're going to whine about how this website is leeching you of your money then maybe you should shut it down.. or find a free host..

i understand you're trying to have this ultimate forum.. where people can "speak freely" and have "fun".... but at some point you either stop shoveling money into the site or you continue to pay to have your site up.. plain and simple.. either way.. i'd wish you'd stop bringing up the fact that you're paying all this money for the site(i'm not saying its a constant thing brought up.. but i can remember times before you mentioning that you put more money into this site than you make) to make its members feel guilty and privileged that you have continued to pay for this site..

/my2cents

[FireflyInTheDark]

i'd wish you'd stop bringing up the fact that you're paying all this money for the site(i'm not saying its a constant thing brought up.. but i can remember times before you mentioning that you put more money into this site than you make) to make its members feel guilty and privileged that you have continued to pay for this site..

/my2cents

I see what you mean, but I don't think it would be brought up if it wasn't a real factor. These are scary times financially. :eek:
Skip is trying to AVOID shutting it down. Like he said, he has thought about it. And free hosts wouldn't allow the space this one does.

perhaps it was the anons that set the vibe. I always speculated that it set a spark flying into the RT gas tank.

i mean, when that was allowed into an environment of hooligans, what do you expect? aware of it or not, I think some took it as a sign that RT was a place where anything could go.

That is entirely plausible.

[LdyNimue]

Well said!! :iagree:


Good moves, on all fronts.

First of all, the Random Thoughts forum is not really needed. The best material in the RT forum was the jokes. Those people can now post in the Humor forum, where there will be no confusion about whether or not something is meant to be a serious insult. If something is in the Humor forum, it is a joke. The clever RT word games can be posted in Forum Games. Some people used RT for a chat room, but HF has a chat room available.

Skip's second point is a cold, hard reality check. If you think you can run a better web site, feel free to start your own. The internet is a big place.

Third, this place was teetering dangerously close to the point where the people who get off on criticism and drama were going to chase away everybody who comes here to have a good time and learn something and exchange ideas with individuals who put serious thought into everything they say and believe. That would have been the end of Hip Forums as a useful web site.

Skip is doing what he has to do, and I give him a standing ovation for having the balls to do it.

[Face Eater]

There is already a place for this. It's called 4chan. I have to admit. I was avoiding RT for a while because it started to remind me a little bit too much of 4chan and those Anons that were here a few months back. At least with the anons, though, there was a language all their own that you could get a handle on if you paid attention and, underneath it all, a sense of camaraderie and common purpose.
RT was just becoming a bunch of nastiness to be nasty... A mean part of town I didn't want to visit anymore. It made me very sad, because I used to go a lot more when the atmosphere was at least semi-respectful. I mean, it wasn't made for the express purpose of ripping people down. It was made for random thoughts. Simple enough. Fun thing in theory, but somehow it changed and some dark thing took over...
I'm going to be honest. I'm glad Skip stepped in. Absolute free speech is a childhood fantasy. The real world isn't painted in black and white like that. There are other factors to consider here. Obviously there are things I disagree with, but I am willing to compromise to keep this site healthy. I want it to stay.
I'm behind you, Skip. That's my opinion.

I seriously think that the nastiness in RT was caused by a very small handful, and in particular one poster that stirred up more trouble than I have ever seen anybody do on an internet forum, and yet they still seem to be here. I know this is a mean thing to say, but learning to get by on RT, or anywhere else on the internet, or in real life is an excercise in getting over one's self. Like i've said elsewhere, I am forced to work alongside people who are just as bad as the worst people on here, on a daily basis in real life. At least here I have a choice and I can ignore them. I don't really see anything wrong with being slightly more sensitive than other people, or even insecure, but when it extends to the point that you're justifying the stifling of other people's opinions and behaviour etc. I don't think you're as innocent or honourable as you would like to think you are.

[orison319]

http://file048a.bebo.com/15/large/2009/04/13/02/8699306679a10584248936l.jpg

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06/ceos_for_cities/image/8-pittsburgh-bridge.jpg

[FireflyInTheDark]

I don't really see anything wrong with being slightly more sensitive than other people, or even insecure, but when it extends to the point that you're justifying the stifling of other people's opinions and behaviour etc. I don't think you're as innocent or honourable as you would like to think you are.

You're obviously upset and waging some kind of protest of your own. Good for you. I'm still on Skip's side, and if that makes you think less of me, that's that I guess. As far as how "innocent or honourable" I come off, it was never my intention to assert that I was either. I was simply showing my support for Skip's decision not to tolerate certain things for the sake of tolerance.

[Zoomie]

I don't see it so much as the stifling of other peoples' opinions and behaviors when those people are deplorable human beings. Xexon was a good person who pointed out the bad in a system. But his sig pics were often patently offensive to more than just zionists.

I can name a dozen other members here who are openly racist, sexist, anti-semitic, Anti-everything that doesn't follow Christ/God/Allah/Mohamed/L. Ron Hubbard and they are legendary for their personal attacks on others who simply disagree with their OPINION. And I completely ignored them. Until today.

You want to dispose of conflict in favor of communication and cooperation? Get the ban button ready. You want to enforce the rules, you may not have time for much else. I see scum out there who have been allowed to post here far too long. You want to cull those who perpetuate hate speech? Stand by to get flooded with reports.

Let me know when you're tired of me. I can retire anytime.

[Face Eater]

I am severely disappointed with humanity on this day.

[Ocean Bionic]

so, there are certain people who didn't fit in at RT, and because of it, they fully support skip, regardless of the fact that there are tons of good people who post in RT. Now those people have had their own watering hole sucked dry. All because it was an eye sore?

If you don't like what goes on in there, don't be apart of it.

There are areas of HipForums with much more filth, yet you seem to ignore those areas just fine, so why couldn't you do the same for RT?

because you felt excluded?

really?

[Zoomie]

If you're going to enforce the rules, lets enforce them equally.

[Face Eater]

If you're going to enforce the rules, lets enforce them equally.

Thats you out of the picture then.

Personally, I think you're awesome, and I've always liked you, but you've never been one to hold it in.

[orison319]

I lurk on her threads 'cause she's my companion
I post on the forum cause she knows who I am
She sees my good deeds and she kisses me windy
I'll never worry, now that is a lie..

I don't ever wanna feel like I did that day
Take me to the place I love, take me all the way
I don't ever wanna feel like I did that day
Take me to the place I love, take me all the way

It's hard to believe that there's nobody out there
It's hard to believe that I'm all alone
At least I have her love, the city she loves me
Lonely as I am, together we cry...

Srsyl do any of you smoke pot.. Im just a wondering.... :sifone:

[Carlfloydfan]

Some of you are being overly dramatic.
RT had potential and sometimes realized this potential. But it was bogged down by petty unfounded attacks, stupidity and a failure to stay on topic with almost every thread.

Most of the time, when a thread was derailed, it didn't deviate into something more interesting. Quite the contrary, and that is one of the problems. I can not 100% defend a place where philosophical questions are turned into personal conversations within a page of its posting. If the thread was derailed into something more interesting, which is rare, that still does not excuse the failure to stay on topic. Another thread should have been created if your point has nothing to do with the original post! The issue is about focus and short attention spans in some respects.

I frequented RT for five years, and I witnesses a lot of great threads turn to shit because people lack the ability to stay on topic. Stifled freedom of speech? Give me a break, all you have to do is a. start a new thread b. go to a chat. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but respect for other people.

RT proved to be a waste of space as I witnessed the forum become overun by personal drama, higher frequency of derailed threads and just overall idiotic behavior. There was some intelligence, but lets not go overboard, it was not overwhelming. RT desperately needed focus. I think the problems got to big for any mod to try and divert the forum into anything more meaningful.

This has nothing to do with popularity, and if so, good riddance. This board should not replace your social life. I liked RT for what it could sometimes be, and for its potential, and for some of its people.

[Zoomie]

Thats you out of the picture then.

Personally, I think you're awesome, and I've always liked you, but you've never been one to hold it in.

I confessed my sins of late and offered to leave. No one has gotten back to me. I know I'm more apt to bite back than report someone because I live in a no snitch mentality. They shoot people here in Baltimore for that stuff.

But like I said, there have been a few thorns in my side over the years. Lets turn this into something good. Something wholesome. Something... Fun.

Torquemada was a genius, you know...

[Face Eater]

Some of you are being overly dramatic.
RT had potential and sometimes realized this potential. But it was bogged down by petty unfounded attacks, stupidity and a failure to stay on topic with almost every thread.

Most of the time, when a thread was derailed, it didn't deviate into something more interesting. Quite the contrary, and that is one of the problems. I can not defend a place where philosophical questions are turned into personal conversations within a page of its posting. If the thread was derailed into something more interesting, which is rare, that still does not excuse the failure to stay on topic. Another thread should have been created if your point has nothing to do with the original post! The issue is about focus and short attention spans in some respects.

I frequented RT for five years, and I witnesses a lot of great threads turn to shit because people lack the ability to stay on topic. Stifled freedom of speech? Give me a break, all you have to do is a. start a new thread b. go to a chat. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but respect for other people.

RT proved to be a waste of space as I witnessed the forum become overun by personal drama, higher frequency of derailed threads and just overall idiotic behavior. There was some intelligence, but lets not go overboard, it was not overwhelming. RT desperately needed focus. I think the problems got to big for any mod to try and divert the forum into anything more meaningful.

You say tomato, I say tomata. I liked RT, a lot of people did, and your own distaste for it does not justify the closing it down for the rest of us. Your subjective opinions are valuable and I respect them, but they aren't mine.

This isn't about whether or not RT functioned the way you liked it or not, this is about the fact that a large number of people were happy to stick around and post in there, despite any hang ups they had, because for them, it was overall an enjoyable experience. It hasn't been fixed, it hasn't been made better for you, in fact for you, nothing has changed, not a single iota of this is relevant to you, because you obviously hated it in the first place. Its gone forever, so the real impact is on the people that were happy there.

I'm pretty sure I have gone overboard and have probably gotten far too over-emotional about this, so this is it, I'm going to stop now, before I get banned, but I do think in any place, anywhere in the world, including the internet, when people start owning the truth, there is something seriously wrong.

Like I said, I'm happy for the stoner lounge to exist despite the fact that I regard everything posted in there as nonsense, I don't agree with a lot of what is said in the political forum, I don't like the way the religion forum is overdogmatic.....but I'm not the people posting in those forums, and I have no desire for those places to be shut down just because I don't like their style. In fact, I reckon that most RTers would be the least likely to wish any such thing upon any other forum. I wish the same courtesy could have been extended to us. Other people exist besides yourself.

Do I stop people from eating baked beans just because I don't like baked beans? No.

I might have said too much, but maybe it was worth it, at least to compensate for the little that was said. I'm finished now, and I'm happy to move on, but I don't have to like it.

[BraveSirRubin]

Some of you are being overly dramatic.
RT had potential and sometimes realized this potential. But it was bogged down by petty unfounded attacks, stupidity and a failure to stay on topic with almost every thread.

Most of the time, when a thread was derailed, it didn't deviate into something more interesting. Quite the contrary, and that is one of the problems. I can not 100% defend a place where philosophical questions are turned into personal conversations within a page of its posting. If the thread was derailed into something more interesting, which is rare, that still does not excuse the failure to stay on topic. Another thread should have been created if your point has nothing to do with the original post! The issue is about focus and short attention spans in some respects.

I frequented RT for five years, and I witnesses a lot of great threads turn to shit because people lack the ability to stay on topic. Stifled freedom of speech? Give me a break, all you have to do is a. start a new thread b. go to a chat. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech, but respect for other people.

RT proved to be a waste of space as I witnessed the forum become overun by personal drama, higher frequency of derailed threads and just overall idiotic behavior. There was some intelligence, but lets not go overboard, it was not overwhelming. RT desperately needed focus. I think the problems got to big for any mod to try and divert the forum into anything more meaningful.

This has nothing to do with popularity, and if so, good riddance. This board should not replace your social life. I liked RT for what it could sometimes be, and for its potential, and for some of its people.

You sound French. http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/images/icons/icon13.gif

[neodude1212]

http://file048a.bebo.com/15/large/2009/04/13/02/8699306679a10584248936l.jpg

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06/ceos_for_cities/image/8-pittsburgh-bridge.jpg


.....OUTSIDE!!!!!!

:cheers2:

[Carlfloydfan]

Well, I acknowledge your thoughts on the subject, I do. But I am not sure you understand where I am coming from. I need to end this discussion soon. I don't want to repeat myself. But, here it goes... and your own distaste for it does not justify the closing it down for the rest of us I would say it does. Because my distaste was 1. Shared by many people 2. A lot of crap = a lot of bandwidth wasted. RT was not worth the money, for what it offered. You could have done the same thing in chats. This isn't about whether or not RT functioned the way you liked it or not This goes far beyond me. I keep saying that too. RT just did not function, with all the attacks, trolls and off topic posts and conversations. The point is to post a random thought and than discuss it. Don't like the topic? Don't post, but don't derail the thread, shut up. My point is, make another thread. Or Pm people, chat on aim. because you obviously hated it in the first place. I never once used the word hate, but the forum had its glaring faults. Actually, what I said, was the forum had potential, and at times, it was realized and I enjoyed it. But on the flipside who cares about two or three, etc folks yapping away in a thread you made that was intended to discuss something philosophical, etc. Do it in a chat! Create another thread. Part of the problem was even laziness. People are to damn lazy to move their stupid crap to their own thread. It is a lack of respect and the "me first" culture. I can derail a perfectly good thread with a conversation attitude/spam. I have no desire for those places to be shut down just because I don't like their style. Believe it or not, I had no desire for RT to be shut down either. But in its current form, it had errors which needed to be fixed. Weather Skip and the mods wanted to work on them, and weather it was worth the time and money, is up to them. But the Focus/Anti focus idea that I have, more or less, stressed throughout, is great. It still allows for all sorts of randomness on the boards, but once within the thread, you stay on topic. Don't want respond, make another thread. Again. It got to the point where people were better served chatting personally. I would like to see a revamped RT, with the theme of Focus/anti focus within the threads themselves. You can still start whatever the hell kind of topic you want, minus obvious taboo topics like attacks, etc. I wish the same courtesy could have been extended to us. Other people exist besides yourself. Um. Are you talking to me? I am not self centered. Actually, I would say "other people exist other than yourself" to the folks who would come into perfectly good threads and say stupid shit for no reason or start personal conversations. After a while, their was no intelligent discourse. Do I stop people from eating baked beans just because I don't like baked beans? No. ?

[Face Eater]

Dude, RT is gone forever, it hasn't been fixed, its not going to be changed for you, so no matter how much potential you think it has, and how much YOU and these so called other people that didn't like it (not me personally and the hundreds of people that did, indicatively by still posting there) or hate it, or disagree with it or whatever words you want to use, its gone. No errors have been fixed. This is the nth time that RT has been shutdown because skip doesn't like it, and I believe he has made it clear that this time it is for good.

Now no matter what you think, or what your subjective view is on whether RT functioned well or not, I was happy with it, or at least happy enough that I wanted it to continue existing,and I believe a number of other people were happy with it as well.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. If you didn't like it, you had the choice not to post there. Now that it is gone, you can't post there, and you seem to be okay with that. Well, I never thought it was perfect and it was full of faults, but they are faults which I observe in human nature in real life on a daily basis and I can't do fuck all about them. As long as you have freedom of expression, you're going to have some measure of chaos, silliness and stupidity, but by trying to stifle and control that expression, you have mediocrity and falsity. Anyway, I'm getting off track and going onto my judgement again, thats not what matters and its not what I want to convince you of. I want to make you understand that while you're happy with the way things are, I am not. You didn't like RT as it was, but I did. You had nothing to lose in the first place and you've still gained nothing. I, however, lose out, because people who didn't even care for the forum in the first place and just couldn't step outside of their own consciousness couldn't understand that for some people, if not a large number of people, it held a lot of appeal. But while you're free to post elsewhere (because according to you there must be superior places) we're not free to post in the place that we prefer to post in. Whatever your arguments are about whether chat is more suitable for that sort of thing, the format RT was in was obviously a very popular and suitable medium or else it wouldn't get the traffic that it did.

Again, if you don't like baked beans, you don't have to eat them, but try to talk me into not liking them because you'll fail, because the basis of that argument is purely subjective. The fact of the matter is, I was happy for RT to exist, even with its faults, but you weren't, lets agree to disagree. However does the fact that you didn't like it mean that my desire for it to keep on existing was any less valid? I don't see how.

If you wish to respond to this I would prefer that you quote me in full instead of conveniently picking out singular points of my argument.

[ChronicTom]

I find it funny that those who are crying and screaming the most about RT being gone are the same ones who appeared in pretty much every thread that devolved into nothing but bickering.

As for this idea that RT was somehow seperate or isolated from the rest... Never once did I go to the RT folder... I checked the daily posts to see what had been posted on the site as a whole.

Some of the mods worked hard to keep it reasonable, some tried and gave up... others encouraged and participated in the mayhem that caused this.

What did you all expect?

[FireflyInTheDark]

so, there are certain people who didn't fit in at RT, and because of it, they fully support skip, regardless of the fact that there are tons of good people who post in RT. Now those people have had their own watering hole sucked dry. All because it was an eye sore?

If you don't like what goes on in there, don't be apart of it.

There are areas of HipForums with much more filth, yet you seem to ignore those areas just fine, so why couldn't you do the same for RT?

because you felt excluded?

really?

It was NOT that we felt excluded. If there is a group of friends who chat regularly, that is fine, but to ATTACK every newbie or "outsider" who posts is NOT what that forum was supposed to be about. It was a forum for random thoughts, not "only allow who I like to post here and flame the hell out of everyone else for no reason." There are PLENTY of other places for this, so why don't you all go there? It didn't BELONG to you. This place belongs to Skip. He just lets us crash here for a while, and when we've worn out our welcome, then sayonara. Why can't you take your own advice and get over this the way you're telling us to get over the stuff in RT? Because you're not getting your way? Some philosophy...

[Face Eater]

It was NOT that we felt excluded. If there is a group of friends who chat regularly, that is fine, but to ATTACK every newbie or "outsider" who posts is NOT what that forum was supposed to be about. It was a forum for random thoughts, not "only allow who I like to post here and flame the hell out of everyone else for no reason." There are PLENTY of other places for this, so why don't you all go there? It didn't BELONG to you. This place belongs to Skip. He just lets us crash here for a while, and when we've worn out our welcome, then sayonara. Why can't you take your own advice and get over this the way you're telling us to get over the stuff in RT? Because you're not getting your way? Some philosophy...

Because we don't have a choice, you did. Some philosophy :rolleyes: I know I keep saying "I'm finished" but people keep saying illogical things. You had the luxury of not having to care about RT because you didn't have to go there, but we don't have the luxury of not being able to care that its gone, because we just can't go there.

Also, you used to post in RT a lot and I can never remember being anything but respectful to you, and I never saw anybody treat you badly. What happened, out of curiosity?

I hope nobody thinks that I contributed to, or condone the sort of drama that went on in RT, because I don't. I hated it. I hope that nobody accuses me of contributing to the drama and the bullying, just because I disagree with what happened.

[McLeodGanja]

What appears to have "happened" is RT has been shut down, and opened up again under a different name, minus a few members. I am not privvy as to the reasons why certain members have been banned, and it does seem a bit unfair.

But maybe it's what RT needed, a swift kick up the back side to tell it to stop being a complete ass hat, at least try to be interesting.

I was guilty of posting nonsense a lot of the time, but I did try to be interesting and funny with it, some just felt the need to post the same old crap day in day out just because they could get away with it.

People are best left to get on with their own devices, we work better that way, but if some are going to abuse that privelage and continue to be ass hats all the time then they will be banished eventually. It's how societies work.

[FireflyInTheDark]

Because we don't have a choice, you did. Some philosophy :rolleyes: I know I keep saying "I'm finished" but people keep saying illogical things. You had the luxury of not having to care about RT because you didn't have to go there, but we don't have the luxury of not being able to care that its gone, because we just can't go there.

Also, you used to post in RT a lot and I can never remember being anything but respectful to you, and I never saw anybody treat you badly. What happened, out of curiosity?

I hope nobody thinks that I contributed to, or condone the sort of drama that went on in RT, because I don't. I hated it. I hope that nobody accuses me of contributing to the drama and the bullying, just because I disagree with what happened.

But I DID care. I cared when it went from a respectful community to "let's rag on the fatties cuz they're gross" and "I don't know you so I hate you."
Maybe I wasn't personally driven out, but the atmosphere was so nasty, I just got a gross feeling every time I went in there. I kept coming back, and lurking for the good threads, posting when I felt I had something to contribute, but it was never the same as it used to be.
I did get snapped at a couple of times- nothing I can cite on an individual basis and I wouldn't anyway, because it would be petty and it really doesn't matter. I could handle it. But then it just kept getting worse and worse, and I saw people having the dumbest pissing contests and ragging on others that I became afraid to post. Sometimes I did, but very cautiously, and it definitely wasn't the fun I remember it being before.

[Face Eater]

But I DID care. I cared when it went from a respectful community to "let's rag on the fatties cuz they're gross" and "I don't know you so I hate you."
Maybe I wasn't personally driven out, but the atmosphere was so nasty, I just got a gross feeling every time I went in there. I kept coming back, and lurking for the good threads, posting when I felt I had something to contribute, but it was never the same as it used to be.
I did get snapped at a couple of times- nothing I can cite on an individual basis and I wouldn't anyway, because it would be petty and it really doesn't matter. I could handle it. But then it just kept getting worse and worse, and I saw people having the dumbest pissing contests and ragging on others that I became afraid to post. Sometimes I did, but very cautiously, and it definitely wasn't the fun I remember it being before.

I didn't like it when they made those sorts of fat jokes either. Maybe it has been worse in the last few weeks, or months, I don't know because I have hardly been here.I'm starting to think that maybe things were worse than I thought in there, I certainly have sensed a lot of negativity as of late. I still don't think its justification for punishing everyone else, but I'm sorry that you had to experience what you did there.

[ItzJessI3itch]

I'm so tired of hearing the bandwidth issue. This had nothing to do with bandwidth.

Most people from RT remain. They'll go to other forums and make another 20,000 posts a year there.

This spread the action as opposed to getting rid of it.

[ItzJessI3itch]

it went from a respectful community to "let's rag on the fatties cuz they're gross" and "I don't know you so I hate you."

How did I ever miss all of that? :o

[fitzy21]

fatties who continually stuff there mouth with food make me want to throw up

i don't see whats wrong with saying that.

*shrugs*

[Zoomie]

I think fat chicks are hot.

[mamaKCita]

oh please. i'm fat and i didn't get my feelings all hurt.

[AquaLight]

Maybe RT should be reopened again under a different name with stricter moderation.. Just a thought.
Although most of my posts were in RT, I wasn't really a regular since I didn't post much..
Attention whore, fecal fetish (TGK) and bitching threads are not my cup of tea.

[mamaKCita]

I confessed my sins of late and offered to leave. No one has gotten back to me. I know I'm more apt to bite back than report someone because I live in a no snitch mentality. They shoot people here in Baltimore for that stuff.

But like I said, there have been a few thorns in my side over the years. Lets turn this into something good. Something wholesome. Something... Fun.

Torquemada was a genius, you know...

this. i agree. and don't go getting all clever and quick with the edit/delete buttons, because erasing the evidence doesn't mean people didn't see what you did there and will remember it.

[odon]

I think fat chicks are hot.

All fat chicks or just the cute ones....like KC I hasten to add.

[earthmother]

OK so All I want to know is about the personal forums. I asked about this before and was not answered. If someone has addressed this and I missed it, sorry.

What's gonna happen to them? Are they moving so people can find them again and if so, are they subject to any "moderation" from anyone besides the people whose forums they are? They ARE, after all, PERSONAL forums. Which really shouldn't have been listed under RT anyhow. They should have their own place.

[stinkfoot]

The personal forums still exist and are active... they'll be a bit difficult to find for a bit though...

[Carlfloydfan]

its not going to be changed for you

With all due respect, I just stopped there, because obviously you had some reading comprehension troubles, at least with a few of the things I said. Maybe that is partially my fault for not being clear enough. But I think I have been pretty clear. No where did I state that and I am not that egotistical or self centered. I don't even want it to be changed for me. I would love it to be changed for everyone but it won't, simple as that. Also, because most people have different views of what it should be anyways.

I was mostly talking in hindsight anyways but said in the oft chance it is re opened, a few changes would have to take place.

And to the jess girl, I don't know how strictly moderated the other forums are, hopefully a little better, but I do think it will cut down on some of the un-necessary bandwidth (banter). I highly doubt 100% of the RT bandwidth will be displaced elsewhere, unless members are really that dense. This should serve as a wake up call for people to maybe not take these forums as seriously and add to the collective discourse of the forums. Also, not let these forums take over as your social life and actually use MSN/PM/HF Chat instead of inter thread conversations.

Also, to add, I didn't stop posting at RT because occasionally there were some great threads. I continued to post expecting the occasional gem. That is why I came back, for the diamond in the rough.

[Kinky Ramona]

OK so All I want to know is about the personal forums. I asked about this before and was not answered. If someone has addressed this and I missed it, sorry.

What's gonna happen to them? Are they moving so people can find them again and if so, are they subject to any "moderation" from anyone besides the people whose forums they are? They ARE, after all, PERSONAL forums. Which really shouldn't have been listed under RT anyhow. They should have their own place.

RT is forum number 51. Up there in your address bar when you open a forum, it should have a number at the very end, 51 is RT's number. You can still get to the page and all the RT personal forums are still right there at the top. The page is pretty much the same as it used to be, but you can't reply or post new threads. http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/forumdisplay.php?f=51 They're still there, right there at the top. You should bookmark your favorites and it will make it much easier. :)

[Zoomie]

this. i agree. and don't go getting all clever and quick with the edit/delete buttons, because erasing the evidence doesn't mean people didn't see what you did there and will remember it.

I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to, ma'am... :D

[Zoomie]

All fat chicks or just the cute ones....like KC I hasten to add.

Don't hate me cuz I like women of... substance...

[odon]

Don't hate me cuz I like women of... substance...


I don't. I like larger ladies too...as long as they are cute.
I was just wondering if you were the same.

[Zoomie]

I always liked you, Odon. No matter what anyone else said about you.

I'll see to it that you are exempt from the coming inquisitions.

[odon]

I always liked you, Odon. No matter what anyone else said about you.

I'll see to it that you are exempt from the coming inquisitions.

Thanks. I appreciate that. :rolleyes:

Edit: I draw the line at Aretha Franklin, though (from your gallery).
I hope this doesn't alter anything?

[gmdukes]

I don't care WHO THE FUCK YOU ARE, but you attack a member of this site, and not only will you be banned permanently, but your attacks will be kept here for the use of those who want to SUE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU for defamation of character, etc. And we will back them 100%.

http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-dog-pictures-cone-lol.jpg

[Friend]

NotDeadYet: Sorry for the misunderstanding too.

For everyone else (including posters, mods, god, his cousins and alien beings) chill out a little. This is the internet. I absolutely understand banning and probably those banned will come back - a) you can have a dynamic ip and can't be tracked, you can also change the ip number of your computer.
There's always been fucks in everything and anything in life. ...and so, the net (these forums) have positive sides and negative sides. It's only normal that at a point there's a cleanup. It's impossible to have middle grounds in life - someone given an inch want's a mile - like it's been said 1 gazillion times - internet are reproductions of societies.
Peace everyone and go about your business, drive safely and don't fart too much it harms the ozone layer.

[Uhave5xxSeconds]

Try reading, its like an escape into another world, (:

[Jaitaiyai]

There is already a place for this. It's called 4chan. I have to admit. I was avoiding RT for a while because it started to remind me a little bit too much of 4chan and those Anons that were here a few months back. At least with the anons, though, there was a language all their own that you could get a handle on if you paid attention and, underneath it all, a sense of camaraderie and common purpose.
RT was just becoming a bunch of nastiness to be nasty... A mean part of town I didn't want to visit anymore. It made me very sad, because I used to go a lot more when the atmosphere was at least semi-respectful. I mean, it wasn't made for the express purpose of ripping people down. It was made for random thoughts. Simple enough. Fun thing in theory, but somehow it changed and some dark thing took over...
I'm going to be honest. I'm glad Skip stepped in. Absolute free speech is a childhood fantasy. The real world isn't painted in black and white like that. There are other factors to consider here. Obviously there are things I disagree with, but I am willing to compromise to keep this site healthy. I want it to stay.
I'm behind you, Skip. That's my opinion.I don't think you can compare 4chan and RT. Way too different.

[Ocean Bionic]

whoever this ohellyea prick is, he's gunna get Site Announcements shut down for us! then where will we go!?

[opel diamond]

hmm, as a person that tended to lurk in rt rather than post to any great degree i can see both sides of the arguement. i do miss rt coz reading the threads was usually amusing and a lot of them were genuinly interesting to. also because that such a wide variety of topics, both pointless and worthwhile were covered it was never boring. i also tend to find that apart from UK, none of the other forums really fit with me. they are all quite specific and those specifics don't interest me to a point were i can post much in them. music, you can make the odd input as with books etc but theres not really the potential for interesting conversation and debate. so for this i miss RT as an all round forum. but i do ask myself why i didn't post as much in there, and i feel it probably was because the tightness of the community and some of the hostilality i had seen towards others that prevented me posting loads. but saying that anything i did post was never flamed of bashed by anyone, if i started a thread people responded and were nice and my posts in other threads were probably more often than not over looked....but that doesnt bother me. at the end of the day it's the internet and if i didn't like RT i just wouldn't have gone there. I tend to avoid the p&r forums now, as that makes me more mad than anything anyone could post in RT. :)

anyway, i'm not going to bleat on about it coz i don't really have much of a case to be gutted RT has got the chop as i wasn't part of the RT community but as an outsider of sorts i guess i will miss it too.

[Friend]

Rt = old comfortable used socks.

I used to go there and talk about the wax in my ears or the launching of a new satellite. After awhile, you value some people's opinion and topics are only half the fun. If you go to specific forums (any site) there is often a "off-topic" section but few people go = few answers.
Closing rt is not going to rid a.holes - it's going to have them migrate elsewhere. I can't say what my opinion about closing rt is - I don't have one. I've never been a mod and like I have said many times before - I'd never want to be one. I would need a whole month - fighting with my conscience - about what to do with someone who's acting like a knob. I'd have a zillion questions and struggles about it.
Deciding on MY fate is tough enough - deciding someone else's is beyond my capabilities.
I do miss the place though. Did the mod(s) do everything ok? Well, there's no 100% in anything but there's a saying in french (don't know if it goes around in english) "when you don't know you shouldn't judge, when you do know, you don't judge".
If you're only 8 years old, you know by now that governments, multinational companies and everything else that has people running it, make mistakes. Mods are humans too. And like these governments, companies and so on, people quickly point to what they do wrong or disagree with - but another thing I say is walk a mile in a person's shoe...
I do have precise opinions on many things but - in this case - I don't know what really happened and I don't have any control over it. I hope that some people I came into contact with - people whom we both changed our lives a little for the better - will think kindly of me and send me an email once in awhile.

[Zoomie]

Don't post angry...

[gmdukes]

Don't post angry...
Truly, I lol'd as I typed that :D

[Zoomie]

There now, much better.

[prissbaby]

Aura! I'm glad you're still here.

[McLeodGanja]

How insightful.

[Jaitaiyai]

Aura! I'm glad you're still here.I swear her posts are being deleted or something. :confused:

Someone quoted her in another thread, I clicked on the little arrow which should take you to where the quotes from but it just took me to the top of the page I was already on. Reloaded, of course.

[McLeodGanja]

Uh oh. TFS just got the boot.

[Skip]

Anyone else need to find the door?

I'm letting the fresh air in, and the stale, hot air, out.

[MaryJBlaze]

am I allowed to ask why the fallout shelter is closed????

[Skip]

Forum guideline violations.

[orison319]

I take that Fallout warning I posted didnt sink in till now.. :p

[MaryJBlaze]

man skip, you've given a whole new meaning to "spring cleaning"

[erzebet1961]

This is really sad , if it doesnt stop Skip might just get rid of this whole board just to keep the banned people from coming back under new names.
Doesnt anyone else see how out of controll this has gotten ?

[Skip]

I take that Fallout warning I posted didnt sink in till now.. :pSome people don't get it, and so they get the boot...

[McLeodGanja]

Skip, if you decide to pull the plug on this entire site, you are going to give us some warning, right?

[MaryJBlaze]

This is really sad , if it doesnt stop Skip might just get rid of this whole board just to keep the banned people from coming back under new names.
Doesnt anyone else see how out of controll this has gotten ?



of course everyone knows how out of control it's gotten....hence the 3 new threads a minute complaining/arguing/fighting the power....

everyone has the point

now its up to each individual to decide what course of action they will take.

[olhippie54]

So, what have we learned from this? :o

[Skip]

of course everyone knows how out of control it's gotten....hence the 3 new threads a minute complaining/arguing/fighting the power....

everyone has the point

now its up to each individual to decide what course of action they will take.
YAWN...

Get over yourselves. :toetap05:

It's just so.......the end of the world!!!

[MaryJBlaze]

So, what have we learned from this? :o



talk softly and carry a big stick?!

[MaryJBlaze]

YAWN... Get over yourselves.


what??:confused:


i answered her question regarding whether or not people understood how out of control it's gotten....

I've been more or less taking this all with a grain of salt, but unnecessary hostility is kind of what got the forums to this point in the first place...no?!


I was never on myself so there will be no need to get over myself:)

[Aristartle]

If anyone wants to appeal to me in private (PMs) instead of posting something angry or out of spite here in public, or has a question, I grant you immunity in doing so.

I fully support Skip in this shift. So if any of the members here attempt to register double logins, you will be caught and whatever chances you had at negotiating your peaceful return here are severely jeopardized. Because frankly, I will not advocate for your return.

[fitzy21]

So, what have we learned from this? :o

that my hate stick hasn't reached out far enough yet

[olhippie54]

I like nice. :)

[McLeodGanja]

So, what have we learned from this? :o

Crises precipitate change.

[fitzy21]

what??:confused:


i answered her question regarding whether or not people understood how out of control it's gotten....

I've been more or less taking this all with a grain of salt, but unnecessary hostility is kind of what got the forums to this point in the first place...no?!


I was never on myself so there will be no need to get over myself:)

i think what skip meant to say was for us to go masturbate

[Bella Désordre]

I like nice too :).I like nice. :)

[olhippie54]

I like nice too :).That's why we've been buddies for so long.

[Bella Désordre]

I agree. Less than a month before my first dead show :D!That's why we've been buddies for so long.

[olhippie54]

I agree. Less than a month before my first dead show :D!Enjoy.

[Bella Désordre]

:cheers2:.Enjoy.

[Skip]

So, what have we learned from this? :o
RT'ers are so full of themselves they can't see the greater good.

and yes it's so typical of the entire "Me" generation...

It's all about MEEEEEEEE!!!!

Look at what I can doooo!!!

I can post up funny insults, ain't that wonderful? :D

Oh, what I can't do that anymore....:eek:

It's awful, Skip has ruined my life. It's the end of everything! :nopity:

[KozmicBlue]

So, what have we learned from this? :o

That it's ok for certain people to act like twats but it's not ok if others do? Yeah, that sounds about right. :D

[Aristartle]

"And the young, they can lose hope because they can't see beyond today: the wisdom that the old can't give away."

[OlderWaterBrother]

Face it this is Skip's home, he’s the one who pays the bills and keeps the lights on and he’s been kind enough to invite us over for the party.

He said make yourself at home but we all know that there are limits when you’re at someone else’s home.

Well some of us weren’t minding our manners and were dragging mud into the house.

Now Skip has thrown out some of those who he thought were abusing his hospitality the most and has closed down one of the rooms in his house so he can clean it up.

After it’s cleaned up maybe he’ll reopen it or maybe he won’t but that’s his choice.

But for now he has been nice enough to let the party go on and not throw us all out.

But now some are acting like this is their house and not Skip’s and are demanding that Skip reopen the closed room before it’s even cleaned up and even saying that it’s all Skip’s fault.

Well it’s a FREE WORLD and you have the right to scrape together the money to get your own home and invite all those thrown out over to your house and start your own party and set your own rules.

But personally if I started a new party at my house, my rules would be pretty much the same as Skip’s.

[Jimmy P]

Well, I didn't want to post in this thread for a while..
I read through most of the replies but am running out of time before I need to get to bed.

Anyways, my opinion, should anyone care for it..
No one was forcing anyone to go into RT. If you were one of the people who didn't appreciate the state and tendencies of it, you should simply have gone someone else.

If someone made a personal attack on you, then you could, amongst other things, ignore that someone altogether.

If you are offended by petty shit posted on the internet, then maybe the internet is not for you. Really. Go protest against the local school allowing the kids to eat sugary snacks on excursions or something instead.

Simply put, you don't like something, leave. Don't get all tightly wound and start taking things personally. Contrary to popular belief, the internet is not serious business.

I was getting bored with RT anyways, but as far as forums go, I think it was one of the best ones I've ever visited. Sure, there was elitism, there were cliques. But there was also openness and community, and there was an element of natural human socialization, unique I think, in that conversation flowed naturally and many posters behaved and seemed like real people, not just internet personas.

It's gone, maybe it'll be back - I hope so, like I posted in another thread, it was my favorite timewaster on the Internet. I first came to this site a few years ago for the drug forums, I ended up staying largely for RT and its denizens.

Edit: Small addendum: If anyone really believes RT was nothing more than a big hateful pissing contest, then I believe they need to have a closer, unbiased appraisal of the situation.

[Skip]

Anyways, my opinion, should anyone care for it..
No one was forcing anyone to go into RT. If you were one of the people who didn't appreciate the state and tendencies of it, you should simply have gone someone else.

Several ppl have made similar statements, but it's not quite true.

RT, being so popular meant that it's threads often dominated the New Posts page & sidebar. Lots of ppl click on those links, often not knowing which forum they're going to.

Then the next thing you know they're hanging out in RT and complaining that the site has gone DOWNHILL. Gee I wonder why?

Then they get insulted and leave the site, only because of RT. Too many ppl take RT to be representative of hipforums and it certainly is not.

We can't have one forum like this causing ppl to leave the site. I've seen it happen so many times I've lost count.

So problem solved...

And if a bunch of ppl decide that's all they were here for, well good riddance! Many others will return now, to share their knowledge and experience without having to contend with insults.

[olhippie54]

I have no problem whatsoever with Skip's crackdown. :cheers2:

[MaryJBlaze]

never mind

[olhippie54]

I really agree with this...

RT was human nature at it's best and worst all in one comfortable place.

Everyone had the choice to be there, just like in real life- we all have to make choices and live with the consequences of those choices.

We don't knowingly go somewhere that offends us or makes us uncomfortable...

I'm not big on strippers, I know not to go to the strip bar....

could you imagine if i did?

go in ...sit down, order a drink....then get offended when the women start dancing and complain to management?!?! lol, thats ridiculous right?!

I understand both sides of the argument, and ultimately have to respect the executive decisions being made or see my way out...but I think I (we)should be able to express my thoughts and opinions on the matter without worrying about what repercussions there may be for doing so.Opinions can be expressed without blatant insults and name calling.

[MaryJBlaze]

Opinions can be expressed without blatant insults and name calling.


yeah i know...i just managed to do it,thanks though;)

[olhippie54]

yeah i know, i just managed to do it...thanks though;)Love ya! Mean it!

[fitzy21]

i would love to know where the majority of these complaints went to...because the majority of reported posts in my inbox deal with spam...very few have anything to do with personal attacks.

i just went through over 100 reported posts in my email inbox...so unless these people complained through PMs which they well could have...

[olhippie54]

i would love to know where the majority of these complaints went to...because the majority of reported posts in my inbox deal with spam...very few have anything to do with personal attacks.

i just went through over 100 reported posts in my email inbox...so unless these people complained through PMs which they well could have...You must have been really bored to go through all that.

[lode]

Well I'm going to leave soon Skip. I hope you don't ban me before I can say my goodbyes to everyone.

Because I will be honest with you. The host is yours, but the community had a life of it's own. You speak of the "me" generation with disdain, yet your whole contention was the the community didn't fit into your views. Yes, it's your site, but theres a cognitive disconnect there.

Yes, not everyone was nice there. But it also generated the most unstifled free flow of ideas on this site. I posted some thread arguing that... So perhaps I disagree with what OldHippie just said. Maybe you can't have openness of speech and total civility.

So your choice was to ban it, and you'll lose a lot of long time members because of it. I think trying to strike a balance between civility and openness on this site would have been the better option.

Anyway, this isn't the end of the world. I have a life. I simply like this because of the friendships I've made in a place where I can blow off steam. Often it's a lot of little things in life Skip, which help us get a bigger picture of what's important. Someone talking about their day with friends online might be more cultivating and valuable then pseudo intellectual ramblings about philosophy and the inane political content here.

I think you lack perspective and made the wrong choice. I wish you the best.

[olhippie54]

Well I'm going to leave soon Skip. I hope you don't ban me before I can say my goodbyes to everyone.

Because I will be honest with you. The host is yours, but the community had a life of it's own. You speak of the "me" generation with disdain, yet your whole contention was the the community didn't fit into your views. Yes, it's your site, but theres a cognitive disconnect there.

Yes, not everyone was nice there. But it also generated the most unstifled free flow of ideas on this site. I posted some thread arguing that... So perhaps I disagree with what OldHippie just said. Maybe you can't have openness of speech and total civility.

So your choice was to ban it, and you'll lose a lot of long time members because of it. I think trying to strike a balance between civility and openness on this site would have been the better option.

Anyway, this isn't the end of the world. I have a life. I simply like this because of the friendships I've made in a place where I can blow off steam. Often it's a lot of little things in life Skip, which help us get a bigger picture of what's important. Someone talking about their day with friends online might be more cultivating and valuable then pseudo intellectual ramblings about philosophy and the inane political content here.

I think you lack perspective and made the wrong choice. I wish you the best.See?! You just disagreed with me without insults.

[Skip]

Well I'm going to leave soon Skip. I hope you don't ban me before I can say my goodbyes to everyone.

Because I will be honest with you. The host is yours, but the community had a life of it's own. You speak of the "me" generation with disdain, yet your whole contention was the the community didn't fit into your views. Yes, it's your site, but theres a cognitive disconnect there.

Yes, not everyone was nice there. But it also generated the most unstifled free flow of ideas on this site. I posted some thread arguing that... So perhaps I disagree with what OldHippie just said. Maybe you can't have openness of speech and total civility.

So your choice was to ban it, and you'll lose a lot of long time members because of it. I think trying to strike a balance between civility and openness on this site would have been the better option.

Anyway, this isn't the end of the world. I have a life. I simply like this because of the friendships I've made in a place where I can blow off steam. Often it's a lot of little things in life Skip, which help us get a bigger picture of what's important. Someone talking about their day with friends online might be more cultivating and valuable then pseudo intellectual ramblings about philosophy and the inane political content here.

I think you lack perspective and made the wrong choice. I wish you the best.You're not gettin' it, at all. bye.

[lode]

See?! You just disagreed with me without insults.

I wasn't directing it at you. If I was I would have said you sound sycophantic. So do most of the replies to this, and I suspect it's because the people who disagree fear imminent banning, because this place can become, on skips bad days, a cult of personality.

What's lost by me not being able to call you on sounding sycophantic, is a sense of honesty which keeps real communication from happening, and that's the problem not only with this censorship, but with the idea as a whole.

[lode]

Bye Skip.

[Skip]

i would love to know where the majority of these complaints went to...because the majority of reported posts in my inbox deal with spam...very few have anything to do with personal attacks.

i just went through over 100 reported posts in my email inbox...so unless these people complained through PMs which they well could have...

thanks for proving my point. Not one RT'er could even be bothered to report very serious slander, instead they encouraged it.

Good job moderating. NOT!

[olhippie54]

I wasn't directing it at you. If I was I would have said you sound sycophantic. So do most of the replies to this, and I suspect it's because the people who disagree fear imminent banning, because this place can become, on skips bad days, a cult of personality.

What's lost by me not being able to call you on sounding sycophantic, is a sense of honesty which keeps real communication from happening, and that's the problem not only with this censorship, but with the idea as a whole.I'm just being me.

[Kinky Ramona]

I don't see why we can't just leave it be and move on...The decision's been made and it's pretty obvious that nothing will change it. But for those RT regulars who have decided to leave, I'd like it if you would PM me some other way to contact you, as I've made a lot of friends and I myself have no intentions of leaving the forums. But frankly, I'm sick of all the shit flinging from all sides and wish it would stop. RT is gone, it's done, it's over. That's really all there is to be said.

[Friend]

I actually pmed a mod once. He's knows who he is and has been actively following this thread.
Skippy, if you doubt - you can check? I guess so???
I don't know if I can say his name - so I won't in case... He's been very nice and civil to me. I basically, don't have any problems with any mod - and if I did - well obviously...you've never seen a domestic win an arguement over her mistress... It's all part of that wonderfull human nature. I haven't been warned, told, reminded, ect...of anything - I do find you very...mmm...expeditive. We've never really "talked" (written to each other before). I'm not one to say what to do - because if you've read my previous posts here, I wouldn't feel ok with that. Wether you are or not - you have the "might" and must - certainly at times. THAT "could" be a problem - that "might is not right" but since I won't be posting in THIS thread for the next 50 years - it should be ok. ...and I also make the assesment that this thread is "I've had all I can take and it won't go in anymore"...
I'm looking into other forums in here - and found a few interesting places - portugese - that I once studied. ...like I said, I need to go to the movie place too. What's bugging me, is not really that rt is gone it's that I need to find "my crowd" - worse - I liked rt (like I said previously) not because of the topics but because of the people I loved. So now, I need to find topics I love and people I'll like. As I said, you said and others - it's just a forum. I was off today and spent a lot of time with "real" friends - so, if some people "in here" feel like I do and go out to "real people", it may have been a service to them.
I remember that 6 or 7 years ago, there'd always manage to be "high drama" in rt too (rt too sound like a Star Wars bot). These things are cyclic. ...and (sorry to kick you on the chin) you mentionned that rt was always the top forum, people leaving, thinking rt was hip forums - bad news... Rt gone - another forum will become "rt" - will be the "main program". ...and eventually, BANG! That new kid will take too much space!

1) I hope OlHippie has at least read the thread were I apologized to him because I mistook him for another poster. It's still in the rt.

2) Skippy or someone else, is there a way to locate ALL forums? Maybe I'm not looking too hard enough?

I hope that things work out for everyone - and even more especially the people doing crappy stuff that has to be edited out. Obviously, there some sort of frustration or lack of maturity - so please, work it out. From out of negativeness only comes bad. If you found this place to begin with because you typed "freedom of speech", words are not tools to hit people with - at the opportune time. It goes both ways - when you throw rocks - you have to expect to receive a few.

I'm kinda of done with this thread - I'll check or someone could pm me - please? With "how to find all forums", Olhippie - hope you're ok. Be kind and don't leave unwrapped cheese in your pockets for too long.

[Skip]

Friend you can go to forum options/find a forum. Or click on the archive link at the bottom of this page.

At another time I may allow the old RT to return for viewing only. But I'd have to be convinced there is anything there worth viewing first...

[Fyrenza]

Good Grief, folks!

Skip? YOU are the one advertising the Hip site as "400+ FREE SPEECH Forums." To most folks, that means that they can say whatever they want to say, no matter how shocking, disgusting, incorrect, etc.

It's also a major selling point for forum sites, i would think, not only to the prospective members, but also to the advertisers.

Also, i'm sort of wondering who opens a forum website, and then gripes about the amount of bandwidth the site takes up? :confused:

i "stumbled into" RT, when i first joined, and i don't remember anyone flaming me, insulting me or in any way bothering me,

until i posted a reply in a thread that i hadn't been to previously, and Relayer called me "Fatso."

i hit the "Report" button, sent a message (Fatso??? Please!) and clicked off to another thread. tbh, i thought maybe he was having a bad day.

What i DIDN't do was hang around to bait him, and since he didn't "stalk" me, i figured that i was just in the right place at the wrong time. No biggie.

And THAT's what the problem was, imho. People came in, expecting something that they dreamed up in a fantasy, and RT was JUST LIKE real life ~ people would get into discussions with friends, and if they disagreed, they'd insult the heck out of each other. It was UPROARIOUSLY funny!!!

btw, how many complaints did you get from the regulars about the party crashers?

We posted like we would have talked to each other, face-to-face, and i can rest assure you that if i had "friends" that couldn't stand to be interrupted, or were too "into" the topic to allow a fork in the conversation, they wouldn't be considered "friends" for long...

And just so i have this straight: RT was closed down because some folks found some of the posts to be offensive and insulting?

How would anyone like it if i was to butt into one of the other forums, say, Sex? (i'm a Christian, and i find a LOT of the sexual talk offensive.) But, hey! i'm a paying supporter of this site, so if i want to post in Sex, i should be able to, WITHOUT being shocked, insulted, nor run out of the forum. Right?

EXACTLY ~ what purpose would it serve for me to do that, OTHER than just stirring up trouble?

Skip, if you allow this, for those folks to be rewarded for stirring up this mare's nest, you'll live to regret it, because they won't be happy, no matter WHAT you do ~ they are just basically unhappy people.

If it hasn't happened already, what are you going to do when Bella (or one of her friends) gets insulted, next time? Close down whatever forum that incident happened in? (You'll run out of forums before you run out of gripes, dude! ;) )

i'm truly sorry that you didn't "like" any of us, and our randomness, because it was a special thing ~ to see/read, and to be a part of ~ with a BUNCH of truly up-front, honest and, for the most part, intelligent peeps.

Of course, you're right about how if we don't like it, we can lump it,

but that hardly seems like an expeditious option.

We are ALL telling you that we WANT to stay,

but closing RT will force a lot of us to leave.

And that's my 2¢...

[Skip]

Good Grief, folks!

Skip? YOU are the one advertising the Hip site as "400+ FREE SPEECH Forums." To most folks, that means that they can say whatever they want to say, no matter how shocking, disgusting, incorrect, etc.
You really have no idea what free speech means in practice. How sad for you.

It's also a major selling point for forum sites, i would think, not only to the prospective members, but also to the advertisers. I don't see many sites "selling free speech", don't know where you get your info from. Not one of our advertisers is here because of free speech. Again you are misinformed (and wasting my time too).

Also, i'm sort of wondering who opens a forum website, and then gripes about the amount of bandwidth the site takes up? :confused:when you have to pay for a website that eats up this much bandwidth, then you have standing to comment, otherwise stick to what you know (I'm still trying to figure out what that is) If I seem to be insulting to you, that's because you're insulting me. Got it?

We posted like we would have talked to each other, face-to-face, and i can rest assure you that if i had "friends" that couldn't stand to be interrupted, or were too "into" the topic to allow a fork in the conversation, they wouldn't be considered "friends" for long...That's what chatrooms are for. Have you not learned the difference yet?

And just so i have this straight: RT was closed down because some folks found some of the posts to be offensive and insulting?

How would anyone like it if i was to butt into one of the other forums, say, Sex? (i'm a Christian, and i find a LOT of the sexual talk offensive.) But, hey! i'm a paying supporter of this site, so if i want to post in Sex, i should be able to, WITHOUT being shocked, insulted, nor run out of the forum. Right?Big difference between insulting Xtians in general and YOU in particular, but again, you just don't get it, do you?

i'm truly sorry that you didn't "like" any of us, and our randomness, because it was a special thing ~ to see/read, and to be a part of ~ with a BUNCH of truly up-front, honest and, for the most part, intelligent peeps.It's not about liking or disliking peeps. It's about RESPECT. Intelligent people respect others. Some of you showed respect, far too many didn't. Draw a new conclusion then about their intelligence. I guess they were so smart they had already heeded the warnings they were given, didn't they?

We are ALL telling you that we WANT to stay,

but closing RT will force a lot of us to leave.

And that's my 2¢...I assume the truly intelligent ones will understand what has taken place and stay. The others, well again, draw your own conclusions.

And I put it to all of you former RT'ers...

Why ain't you in Chat? That's all you're here for right?

[Bella Désordre]

I love the arguments "well what would you do in real life, Random Thoughts is a subsection of Real Life". No it's not! If anyone ever called me the c word on a daily basis in 'real life' they would be in jail. If somone talked about me in public in every other conversations they had, I would seek a restraining order.

[McLeodGanja]

It would be nice if people went round showing you pictures of tits everywhere you went though. Nice in theory, but in practise it would mean having to carry a copy of The Sun everywhere you went, or at least just the page 3 section. Can you imagine popping round to your local pub for a pint and bit of banter, and the barman saying, "sorry mate I can't serve you unless you show me a pair of tits, now GTFO!"

[Kinky Ramona]

I'd like to say the reason why I'm not in chat is because it's too hard to differentiate who's talking to who. That's why Random Thoughts was great, because of the forum setting, and the ability to quote and such. When the chatroom has as much traffic as Random Thoughts had, the page scrolls too quickly and it's really difficult to hold a conversation. Some people can do the chat thing, some people just aren't quick enough. So yeah...I'm just meandering the site for now.

[BraveSirRubin]

Yeah, chatrooms are mad gay and never have any really good discussions. Forums allow for more in-depth comments.

[OlderWaterBrother]

People keep using the term FREE SPEECH and saying it means the freedom to say anything but that would only be true if you were the only person in existence.

Once there are other people, FREEDOM has to be used responsibly or you take FREEDOM from others or you lose your own FREEDOM.

So it’s not Skip taking your FREE SPEECH away, you forfeited it by using it irresponsibly.

[Fyrenza]

If I seem to be insulting to you, that's because you're insulting me. Got it?


i did not mean, in any way, to be insulting to you, Skip.

(And i'm not saying that just so you won't ban me! ;) )

It was a fair question, i thought ~ i mean, most forums WANT to be big and huge and suck up bandwidth, right? That's how you know if your "business" is doing well? And, although i haven't had a lot of experience with internet advertisers, i did work in newspaper advertising, and we sold ads, based upon our circulation. i presumed that advertising was the same, regardless of medium. That was all i meant ~ not to try to pick a fight with anyone.

The thing about Free Speech? i, myself, specifically looked for forums which advertised this, believing that, if folks were allowed to say, think and feel whatever they wanted to, the banter would, as Lode put it, be more honest and a better reflection of the state of society.

And, again, not to be snippy, but what do you feel like Free Speech consists of? (THAT would be a good thing for us to know ~ then, maybe we wouldn't overstep your boundries.)

Sorry if you feel like i'm wasting your time ~ i sort of feel like i paid for some of it, but i've been wrong before! ;)

[olhippie54]

People keep using the term FREE SPEECH and saying it means the freedom to say anything but that would only be true if you were the only person in existence.

Once there are other people, FREEDOM has to be used responsibly or you take FREEDOM from others or you lose your own FREEDOM.

So it’s not Skip taking your FREE SPEECH away, you forfeited it by using it irresponsibly.Exactly!

[Skip]

i did not mean, in any way, to be insulting to you, Skip.

(And i'm not saying that just so you won't ban me! ;) )

It was a fair question, i thought ~ i mean, most forums WANT to be big and huge and suck up bandwidth, right? That's how you know if your "business" is doing well? And, although i haven't had a lot of experience with internet advertisers, i did work in newspaper advertising, and we sold ads, based upon our circulation. i presumed that advertising was the same, regardless of medium. That was all i meant ~ not to try to pick a fight with anyone.

The thing about Free Speech? i, myself, specifically looked for forums which advertised this, believing that, if folks were allowed to say, think and feel whatever they wanted to, the banter would, as Lode put it, be more honest and a better reflection of the state of society.

And, again, not to be snippy, but what do you feel like Free Speech consists of? (THAT would be a good thing for us to know ~ then, maybe we wouldn't overstep your boundries.)

Sorry if you feel like i'm wasting your time ~ i sort of feel like i paid for some of it, but i've been wrong before! ;)
Quit sucking up to me... ;)

Actually the mods were just discussing recently just that (free speech) and we were going to come up with a list of things that are NOT covered by free speech. I think that would be most instructive for everyone to read & understand.

However, it really amazed me that anyone would bring up the issue of free speech in this context.... How ironic...

Why?

Cause not ONE PERSON HERE has addressed the REAL issue of FREE SPEECH that started all of this.

Can any of you figure it out? I will give a free year's membership to anyone who can... There's a challenge for you.

[eyeagainsteye]

When Free Speech is used to slander others?

I think that is a pretty good guess

[Allonym]

...If I seem to be insulting to you, that's because you're insulting me. Got it?...

not to be rude, but is this not exactly the kind of behaviour that led to the shut down of random thoughts? People insulting one another back and forth, rather than ignoring those base things and focusing on the discussion itself?

[Skip]

When Free Speech is used to slander others?

I think that is a pretty good guess
Yes, you got it! And quick too! Thank you. Enjoy your new status!

[eyeagainsteye]

Yes, you got it! And quick too! Thank you. Enjoy your new status!

Right on Skip..thanks:cheers2:

I wish I could of been this lucky on the Price is Right last week:D

I did see how everything went down a few days ago so I knew what led to the demise..

[Skip]

And I wish to point out here, that I'm prepared to ban as many members (including supporters) and to close down as many forums as necessary to defend that one person's right to speak freely without intimidation, without slander on this website. Got it now, folks?

It's not that he and I are friends, no more than I with any other of you. I've had minimal discussion with him over this.

It's simply because Free Speech implies far more responsibility than most people realize. We are all responsible for what happens here. And I am most responsible for what appears on this site. I will defend the site as passionately as I defend a single individual's right to speak freely.

I don't give a rat's ass what YOU THINK free speech is, because the mods and I are on the front line here keeping this site FREE for ALL PEOPLE to speak not just those people YOU LIKE.

Sometimes that means people must be banned, threads closed or deleted, even forums.

The Golden Rule really doesn't work on Free Speech sites simply because too many people are sadistic and masochistic so they WANT to be insulted (it's probably the only attention they get). But sorry such behavior is antithetical to free speech.

I guess I'll have to give a class on this subject because it's perfectly obvious that kids don't really learn about this in school - but you can bet your ass they're all learning it now on the internet, just as you are.