question about animism

[Shaw-Min]

Is animism compatible with Hinduism or Buddhism?

[Mountain Valley Wolf]

Yes it is. In fact I would say that animism is compatible with any religion.

For example, ask a Christian where god is----and they will undoubtedly say everywhere. Then ask them, where does god not exist? and they will probably answer nowhere (then I like to play with them and ask, "ok, then where does the devil exist?").

Hinduism has the Atman----the transcendent consciousness that is all ultimate reality. Buddhism has buddhahood, or the Buddhist void---so profound it is not conceived, for its concept would only be limited by human thought. The Tao that is spoken is not the eternal Tao. These all refer to an animistic concept that all things are alive with that ultimate essence of mana, or kami, or the Great Spirit.

But the one difference is that Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, and all other religions are----religions. This is true to a certain extent with Taoism, and to even less extent with Shintoism (see my posts under Shinto and Taoism). Animism, on the other hand, is a fallback to that spiritiuality that existed before the rise up of the institution of religion.

My view, and I have a lot to back that up with, is that religion rose up with other institutions at the dawn of agriculture. As hunter gathering people evolved into pastoral activities and villages based on agriculture, a new need for group oriented ethics and communities rose up, and with this we saw the start of the institutions. This also coincides with the dawn of writing (as opposed to the earlier symbols of the petroglyphs).

Religions, as institutions, place themselves between man and the divine universe---especially in the west. They have defined codes and ethics and tend to have a more black and white view of man and the universe. As institutions, they are dogmatic. Even Hinduism, which seeks to be non-dogmatic through the concept of dharma, is based on institutional (religiously) defined concepts of nature, and is therefore, in truth, a dogma.

Animismistic belief systems however, are nature-based spiritualities that tie the individual intricately into the divine universe. Man and everything else is sacred. This fits right in with Buddhism and Hinduism, but there are very few if any codes and rules to be followed---rather, there are cultural taboos and customs that preserve the tribe. The ecstatic experience that is found in most traditional animistic communities (i.e. the deeply spiritual experiences of the shamans, shamanesses, medicine men and women, and others, is more easily attained, and deals with less institutional ritual than the peak or ecstatic experiences found in religions. It is more natural because it is not tainted by the dogma of the institution. The ecstatic experience is also not limited to one individual, or key individuals, or a single leader----it is understood that anyone can experience this one on one communication with the universe.

But each person must find their own spriritual path. If someone feels a pull towards an animistic, or a nature-based spirituality, yet also feels that they need the institutional guidance provided by an institution---I see no conflict.

In fact, consider this---one of my favorite examples of the difference between religion and spirituality (or animism) is this: The Native Americans, among all their hundreds of languages, even thousands when we add in all the dialects----have no word for religion. It was an alien concept to them. The implications of this is that everything is of the Great Spirit. There is no secular, or non-secular. There is no way to be outside of the Great Spirit. And this is common of all animistic belief systems. Therefore, in their eyes, what difference does it make if you are Christian or Buddhist, or Indonesian Dayak, or Philippine Igorot, or Lakota, or Yacqui, or Hawaiian. You are all part of the Great Spirit. The only difference is that you have a different way of talking and relating with it.

Therefore, you can combine animism with other beliefs. This is what the Japanese did with Shinto and Buddhism.

Sadly, this is why so many of the traditions have been lost, and continue to be lost. Missionaries are taking away the spiritual inheritance and power of many many cultures---because these people are happy to learn new ways of communing with the universe---because it is all good to them. But then they later learn that the old ways are bad, and that they must follow the religion or else they will perish in hell. etc. etc. It is very sad---and I have seen first hand how losing these traditions causes pain and suffering and cultural dissonance----but I will have to save that for another post.

I also wanted to talk about how animistic traditions continue into all these religions---you can see them. But it is late, and I will have to add that tommorrow.

[famewalk]

But what about the interpretation in the aforesaid subject about the fate of life for the Earth at one? the great spirit is empowered of it's own to Create; the animism, we each one of us, must create in our own content of afteer perceiving the chance fragment of design. When does the chance begin as opposed to the speculations of idol individuals?

[Mountain Valley Wolf]

Ok Famewalk, let me see if I got your question straight---you talk about we humans as individuals creating after perceiving the chance fragment of design. If I understand you right---we perceive this fragment of design, because we are each filled with the animistic spirit of the Great Spirit-----the Great Creator of the Grand Design.

From this you seem to have two questions---when does our own creativity reflect this chance perception of the fragment of design, as opposed to idle speculation. In other words, when do our creations reflect divine inspiration, versus idle speculation. And I assume that by creations you are referring to, among other things, the postings on this site.

First I'll answer this one. You have to respect that each person is on their own path. For some that will be religion, for others it will be spirituality, for others it is atheism, or a mixture of beliefs, or whatever. Each person is on that path for a valid reason. And in their own way, they each reflect a fragment of that grand design. Some may reflect a bigger fragment, others a smaller fragement---but they have a uniqe reflection of this design. Because it seems that we are here to experience life. Because this is what the interaction resulting from each of our unique paths induces---experience of life.

But because each of our paths are different we will respond to different motiffs, from different perspectives. We may perceive the same fragment of the design (as you refer to it), but because of our different paths, our different perspectives, we may see it or interpret it from a completely different motiff or archetype than someone else. There will undoubtedly be misunderstandings of the design, and so forth, but that is the result of the path we are on, and is the source of the variety of experience we have through social interaction.

Even for those who sit and idlely speculate---this is a part of their path. It is the act of questioning, and wondering---but most importantly they are heading down their path, acting out their manifest destiny if you will. They may have misconceptions of the design, or faulty perspectives based on prejudices and the like---but they are on their path, and that should be respected. I would say that they are further down the road to growth, than those who are mindlessly sitting around, blindly accepting dogma as God spoken truth, without even the understanding of what they are hearing. Such individuals have barely started their path.

Those of us who have sought out, or been lead down the traditional animistic paths, and who have experienced the ecstatic experiences of these paths, have seen these fragments of the design through very powerful archetypical motiffs. It is hard to relate these in terms generally acceptable in modern logical objectivistic terms. For example, it is hard to talk about a spirit guide or a spirit animal in a modern society that has no traditions or concept of such. It is akin to trying to explain a tv to a so-called primitive tribal member, who has no concept of it. It is awkward and strange, and won't make sense, or will even sound stupid, to someone who has never experienced it.

Your second question involves the fate of life for the earth. Unfortunately I am extremely tired----so I will answer that tomorrow----using an Australian aboriginal (animistic) perspective. They would refer to this design of yours as 'The Dreamtime."

But for now, I can hardly keep my eyes open...

[Mountain Valley Wolf]

SO Famewalk----I think you are also asking about the fate of the earth?

We are in a time when the fate of the earth lies in mankind's hands, and man has shown very little responsibility to the Great Mother (Earth). Perhaps this is why there has been such a resurgance of the traditional ways. The spirits are reaching out more than ever to induce mankind to stop this destructive path before it is too late.

Our resources are running thin, and I am afraid that we will see more great food shortages and other problems in the near term. The pollution that exists around the globe is unbelievable----even the once pristine oceans far off from any continent, are pollutd and poisoned. There are big changes coming, and if technology does not rise up to the challenge, life as we know it will cease.

But what is an animistic perspective on this? If we consider the Grand Design you referred to, I immediately think of the Australian Aboriginal Dreamtime. It was in the dreamtime that all things were created according to them. And it was hear that each portion of creation was given an inherent potential. The stick that becomes a boomerang was given that potential, and the man who follows the ways of the dreamtime could see that potential and bring that stick to fulfill its destiny.

The aborigine understood the dreamtime very well, and would visit it both through sleep, and through ecstatic experiences. They knew that as long as they follow the simple ways of the dreamtime, they would be happy, and everything would continue as it should. The aborigine draws pictures of the dreamtime in terms of circles and lines---the circles represent energy vortexes and the lines as the lines of energy flow.

But civilized man does not follow the dreamtime----he does not follow the Grand Design, but instead abuses its potential. We seek to shape the vortexes and energy lines in our own design. And since they are out of sync with the original designs of the dreamtime, they will only lead to our destruction. Man thus has to learn to follow the original design----the natural path.

There was a point I wanted to make lastnight-----but I've now forgotten it. Anyway--- man's destructive path is based on the fact that man does not consider the earth and all of nature as living entities, or atleast that we place ourselves above nature and therefore have the right to dominate and manipulate nature for our own selfish ends. In fact, civilized man has not treated indigenous people any better.