Christian Voice complains about pro-atheism advertising [Archive]

Hoatzin

01-11-2009, 11:35 AM

Well quite, this was my first thought when I heard about the atheist ad campaign.

Don't get me wrong, Christian Voice are being tossers and if they win this it will only be because no-one took them seriously enough to complain about their unsubstantiated claims.

But I did feel the atheist campaign was rather unnecessary and childish. Funny as a prank, maybe, but not worth risking getting a precedent set over.

odon

01-11-2009, 12:29 PM

The amount of Christian advertising (even about 10 hours a week on the BBC) ... and these muppets moan about one advert! LOSERS.

opel diamond

01-11-2009, 12:41 PM

The amount of Christian advertising (even about 10 hours a week on the BBC) ... and these muppets moan about one advert! LOSERS.

in fairness this is an advert from the yorkshire post.

yorkshire folk moan about anything :tongue:

i agree though, moaning about this is ridiculous. whenever im on the bus i have psalms on posters forced down my throat, so why not athiesm too. its kinda funny imo.

odon

01-11-2009, 12:45 PM

in fairness this is an advert from the yorkshire post.

yorkshire folk moan about anything :tongue:

True.
But, I have read about this outside of Yorkshire.
This is not just a Northern flat cap thing.

i agree though, moaning about this is ridiculous. whenever im on the bus i have psalms on posters forced down my throat, so why not athiesm too. its kinda funny imo.

Their is always one.
The group moaning are fundemental Christians so I'm not suprised they are moaning. But some of their objections are laughable. I would go on but I feel I may pass out laughing. It is kinda funny.

opel diamond

01-11-2009, 12:50 PM

what like? them saying it is given as a statement of fact?.....i dont think so!

how can something with 'probably' infront of it be an absolute. in my opinion including the world 'probably' makes it non factual and open to any interpretation.

and there is no evidence at all that there is no god, but the evidence that there is one.....well, too much to argue with! :rolleyes:

odon

01-11-2009, 12:54 PM

.....well, too much to argue with! :rolleyes: Good grief, yes.

I did like this line though: I think the advertisers are really going to struggle to show their claim is not an exaggeration or inaccurate.

opel diamond

01-11-2009, 12:56 PM

I did like this line though: I think the advertisers are really going to struggle to show their claim is not an exaggeration or inaccurate.

lmao. yes that is a mammoth task. where as proving the existance of a devine being who created the world in 7 days, thats a walk in the park.

maybe im just cynical.

odon

01-11-2009, 01:02 PM

lmao. yes that is a mammoth task. where as proving the existance of a devine being who created the world in 7 days, thats a walk in the park.

maybe im just cynical.

Mammoth? there were no mammoths.
You forget 7 days is a metaphor for 7 million years.

Perhaps you are cynical, but we need another 6 billion people like you (or similar :rolleyes:)

opel diamond

01-11-2009, 01:14 PM

Mammoth? there were no mammoths.
You forget 7 days is a metaphor for 7 million years.

Perhaps you are cynical, but we need another 6 billion people like you (or similar :rolleyes:)

there were no mammoths? :( thats so sad.
and i didnt realise it was a methaphor, my bad. the CofE primary school i went to never said?

odon

01-11-2009, 01:21 PM

there were no mammoths? :( thats so sad.
and i didnt realise it was a methaphor, my bad. the CofE primary school i went to never said?

Nope, no mammoths, no Dinosapiens...just man and woman...oh, and a snake (not sure where his parents came from.)

Yeah, sorry, it is, apparently.
The new revised addition to the beginings of the universe -
I hear the next revision is a big one - Jesus was not white and did not have long hair. :eek:

opel diamond

01-11-2009, 01:33 PM

Nope, no mammoths, no Dinosapiens...just man and woman...oh, and a snake (not sure where his parents came from.)

Yeah, sorry, it is, apparently.
The new revised addition to the beginings of the universe -
I hear the next revision is a big one - Jesus was not white and did not have long hair. :eek:

ahhh revised additions? and who claims authority for that?

and im gutted about there being no dinosaurs. was the natural history museam one big hoax?

relaxxx

01-11-2009, 01:46 PM

Saying there 'probably' is no God, sounds more like an agnostic point of view than atheist.

And there are plenty of religious people who really believe is was literally 6 days, I work with one of them who was going on about how he will not work on Saturday as if I actually gave a shit about his nonsense! And if not 6 days then there are plenty other young earth pseudo-scientific religious people trying to say the world is only 10 thousand years old or some nonsense like that.

Do you think Sunday was the first day of light? I don't, I think Sunday was invented some 14 Billion years after light, and light was not invented but simply an intrinsic property of energy, a naturally occurring automatic process.

odon

01-11-2009, 01:46 PM

ahhh revised additions? and who claims authority for that?

Tony Blair. :)

and im gutted about there being no dinosaurs. was the natural history museam one big hoax?

The Natural History Mueseum is a communist front...don't believe a word they say, seriously.

Hoatzin

01-11-2009, 06:22 PM

in fairness this is an advert from the yorkshire post.

yorkshire folk moan about anything :tongue:

i agree though, moaning about this is ridiculous. whenever im on the bus i have psalms on posters forced down my throat, so why not athiesm too. its kinda funny imo.

Because you didn't complain, and they did?

Hoatzin

01-11-2009, 06:32 PM

Saying there 'probably' is no God, sounds more like an agnostic point of view than atheist.

If the campaign stated that there is no god then it would be unjustifiable. No atheist knows that there is no god; only stupid ones think they do.

There's a well known lager advert that describes its product as "Probably the best lager in the world". To me, that sets a clear precedent and should totally exonerate the Humanist Society of any deception. I find it pretty funny if Christian Voice haven't spotted this, but I'd imagine they're actually just seeing what they can get away with on the offchance.

And there are plenty of religious people who really believe is was literally 6 days, I work with one of them who was going on about how he will not work on Saturday as if I actually gave a shit about his nonsense! And if not 6 days then there are plenty other young earth pseudo-scientific religious people trying to say the world is only 10 thousand years old or some nonsense like that.

Not in this country, to my knowledge. If this story had happened in the States I wouldn't have been bothered or surprised. The fact that it's happening somewhere where religion is usually just humoured at best and at least publicly kept as far away from politics is what makes me interested.

I do wonder how my fellow atheists feel about advertising of atheism though.

relaxxx

01-11-2009, 10:04 PM

I know two thing, there is no god and you are no atheist!
Thanks for the insult though.

Hoatzin

01-11-2009, 11:31 PM

I know two thing, there is no god and you are no atheist!
Thanks for the insult though.

You should turn the other cheek, kittensoft. Fortunately for you, getting one thing staggeringly wrong does not, in my eyes, totally invalidate your opinion on other things.

Regardless of what you think you know, this campaign would be on much shakier ground if the qualifier "Probably" hadn't been added. Not that Christian Voice has ever been required to state that "God PROBABLY loves you", but then, again, no-one complained, so they got away with it.

relaxxx

01-14-2009, 02:24 AM

No doubt people would be more upset if it just said there is no God.

One of the many reasons I KNOW there is no God because if there was a God I would know about it! Everyone who believes in God has their own ideas about what it is. From what I can tell God's an egomaniac but modestly shy! What? No way! Theists minds are like frigging snowFLAKES! Does any one of them have the right definition? 'PROBABLY' not is putting it lightly. So then it come to this; who is MORE staggeringly wrong, your random imaginary snowflake God definitions or NO God definition?

Hoatzin

01-14-2009, 07:24 PM

relaxxx

01-15-2009, 02:32 AM

I wish your posts were as thick with insight as they are with insult.

Hoatzin

01-15-2009, 11:11 AM

Aww, did I hurt your wittle feewings?

I actually think you're wrong about this, by the way:

No doubt people would be more upset if it just said there is no God.

I mean, maybe if you put both posters next to each other and asked a focus group of Christians which they found least offensive, they'd opt for the "probably" one. But in practical terms, I doubt anyone who would've complained about "there is no God" would have held back because of the qualifier "probably" (unless they were complaining on the basis of unprovable claims).

I also suspect that Christian Voice has gone after this campaign specifically because it is trying to come across as rational and persuasive and reasonable. So they can reasonably expect a judgment in their favour to be honoured. I doubt they'd be attempting this if it was someone sat around in Trafalgar Square shouting "There is no god. Please move along." from a megaphone.

The very fact that they used "probably" implies a weakness and lack of conviction that can be exploited. I do not, however, think that it is worth claiming conviction of something I cannot prove or evidence purely for the sake of looking stronger.

relaxxx

01-15-2009, 01:46 PM

So saying there probably is no God is weak and lacking conviction, and saying there is no God is just stupid. Is there any atheist position that you don't have a problem with? Whether or not offensive, weak or stupid, whether or not beyond a shadow of a doubt or most likely, They are standing up against organized ignorance imaginary God egos and their twisted influences and that shows some God damn conviction to me and I applaud the effort. It is easier to prove probability than fact and if the Advertising Standards Authority have half a shred of sense they will be in their favor.

Hoatzin

01-15-2009, 02:55 PM

So saying there probably is no God is weak and lacking conviction, and saying there is no God is just stupid. Is there any atheist position that you don't have a problem with?

Sorry, but that's a misinterpretation. I don't have a problem with weakness; I prefer it to lunk-headed power displays anyday. As for conviction, it is largely a result of not knowing how little one knows. I have a lot more admiration for someone who admits a shortcoming than someone who won't.

Make no mistake: nothing you say will ever persuade me that you know there's no god. It almost certainly can't be known, and certainly not with the information we have available to us at this point. And if you think that that means that I believe in a god, you are stupid, whether you accept that or not. I don't want to insult you. I just comment on your posts. Maybe if you had more conviction you'd be able to defend yourself better by doing the same for me.

Whether or not offensive, weak or stupid, whether or not beyond a shadow of a doubt or most likely, They are standing up against organized ignorance imaginary God egos and their twisted influences and that shows some God damn conviction to me and I applaud the effort.

I'm pretty sure they're actually just doing a "hey, if Christians can advertise their product, why can't we advertise ours?" thing (despite not actually having a product). I applaud it for using up space that would otherwise be occupied by advertising and for showing how threatened organised religions feel by any visible suggestion that their followers are not in the vast majority.

It is easier to prove probability than fact and if the Advertising Standards Authority have half a shred of sense they will be in their favor.

Yes, they "probably" will. :D

BlackBillBlake

01-17-2009, 09:02 PM

Hoatzin

01-18-2009, 02:00 AM

I read in the paper today (Daily Mail - not my own copy I stress) that up in Yorkshire a bus driver has refused to drive a bus with the poster. The company say they'll ensure he always drives a bus without the ad.
He says that as a Christian, he can't in good conscience drive a bus displaying this message, and he also drew attention to the fact that if you substitute the word 'Allah' for 'God', all hell would no doubt have broken loose by now.

Well, is that a fact? Not that I don't think this is a prime example of the anti-religious taking on Christianity specifically while supposedly protesting all religion, but I do wonder what would have happened.

I'd also be interested to know if that same bus driver has objected to any other adverts on buses. The ones I've ridden lately have included plenty of adverts for alcohol (of the type very squarely aimed at the young binge drinker) and cosmetic surgery. I know gluttony and vanity are maybe a little lower down on the list of priorities, but still, you'd hope he'd be consistent in his objection.

Anyway - whatever the debate about part 1 of the ad 'there is probably no God' - part 2 is quite interesting. 'get on with enjoying life'.
I wonder what they mean by this? Go on enjoying modern consumser 'culture' with it's dumbed down agendas and almost total lack of ethics?
Enjoying the slow destruction of the planet and it's natural environments?
Enjoying the global recession?
Or what?

I guess they're arguing that it's one less thing to worry about, since the consumer culture et al exist whether you believe in a god or not. That or they're as obsessed with religion as all the other atheist showboaters who can't quite grasp that it's at best a symptom of the world's ills, rather than a cause.

relaxxx

01-18-2009, 04:50 AM

part 2 is quite interesting. 'get on with enjoying life'.
I wonder what they mean by this? Go on enjoying modern consumser 'culture' with it's dumbed down agendas and almost total lack of ethics?
Enjoying the slow destruction of the planet and it's natural environments?
Enjoying the global recession?
Or what?

Someones got their stereotypes ass-backwards! Are you suggesting God fearing Christians DON'T take part in consumerism, unethical acts, destroying the environment, causing the global recession?

You've never heard of republicans? The Bush administration played a huge role in driving this recession. Do you know how many fucking capitalist ass hole businessmen I've got to listen to bitch about how much money their going to loose to liberal socialist Obama while completely ignorant to how much debt and misery their precious republican party has caused to the working class world over the past 8 years!? Christians think God can build a planet in days, Atheist know it took billions of years, Who the fuck do you think has more respect for earth? For a bunch who believe in afterlife I've never seen a larger group of selfish greed materialistic hypocrites.

Any fucking way, they mean God fearing assholes waste there life worrying about GOD and fantasizing about an IMAGINARY afterlife while taking this life and planet for granted, not to mention JUDGING everyone else with different beliefs. The adds were in response to an evangelical group Christian Voice, which had proclaimed that Britain is in "deep sin."

BlackBillBlake

01-18-2009, 04:32 PM

Well, is that a fact? Not that I don't think this is a prime example of the anti-religious taking on Christianity specifically while supposedly protesting all religion, but I do wonder what would have happened.

If it had mentioned Allah, I expect some reaction similar to the reaction to the cartoons of the Prophet or Rushdie's 'Satanic Verses' might well have occured. Esp. in Yorkshire, an area with a higher than average muslim population. Satanic Verses was burned on the streets of Bradford by indignat mobs, and now things are much more polarized than back in those heady days.

I'd also be interested to know if that same bus driver has objected to any other adverts on buses. The ones I've ridden lately have included plenty of adverts for alcohol (of the type very squarely aimed at the young binge drinker) and cosmetic surgery. I know gluttony and vanity are maybe a little lower down on the list of priorities, but still, you'd hope he'd be consistent in his objection.

Good point. Actually, he's an ex navy man who it says, did 25 years mainly in submarines - probably neuclear subs - so obviously there's no objection from this person to the idea of neuclear halocaust.

I guess they're arguing that it's one less thing to worry about, since the consumer culture et al exist whether you believe in a god or not. That or they're as obsessed with religion as all the other atheist showboaters who can't quite grasp that it's at best a symptom of the world's ills, rather than a cause.

Well I'd say that the whole idea of 'worrying' about God is misplaced.
However, if people believe in something beyond the material perhaps they're less likely to be totally controlled by consumerism, as many millions seem to be these days.
Perhaps a spiritual renaissance might even lead to changes in the current consumerist culture.

BlackBillBlake

01-18-2009, 04:46 PM

Someones got their stereotypes ass-backwards! Are you suggesting God fearing Christians DON'T take part in consumerism, unethical acts, destroying the environment, causing the global recession?

They do so because they are hypocrites who simply use religion as a screen for their own greed for power, wealth etc.
I'd argue that these are not really spiritual people, and in any case, they ignore the very teachings they supposedly follow.
Christians aren't the only ones to believe in God though - I guess in the USA where c/anity is in yr face all the time things are very different from in the UK where religion is very marginalized and actually not much in evidence, other than in the case of new mosque building projects etc.

Any fucking way, they mean God fearing assholes waste there life worrying about GOD and fantasizing about an IMAGINARY afterlife while taking this life and planet for granted, not to mention JUDGING everyone else with different beliefs. The adds were in response to an evangelical group Christian Voice, which had proclaimed that Britain is in "deep sin."

Maybe god fearing assholes do just that. However, how about those who don't fear God? Some people regard God as a benign entity, and the belief systems of the OT etc as an abberation.
Also, perhaps it's not so much an afterlife we have to be concerned about, but life here in this world.
It seems that for most of the time humans have existed on earth, up until the advent of modernism really, they universally believed in a spiritual dimension to life. This enabled many so called primitive cultures to live a life in harmony with nature, unlike modern society which is mainly shallow, superficial and headed for collapse.
My view is that only real spiritual values can save the day. By real, I mean other than those of US evabngelists, muslim fanatics etc.
Britain is certainlt deep in shit - I wouldn't call it 'sin' but ignorance, stupidity, a complete moral vacum, and lack of any direction. Post imperial collapse over a long period.

Hoatzin

01-18-2009, 08:52 PM

Someones got their stereotypes ass-backwards! Are you suggesting God fearing Christians DON'T take part in consumerism, unethical acts, destroying the environment, causing the global recession?

You've never heard of republicans? The Bush administration played a huge role in driving this recession. Do you know how many fucking capitalist ass hole businessmen I've got to listen to bitch about how much money their going to loose to liberal socialist Obama while completely ignorant to how much debt and misery their precious republican party has caused to the working class world over the past 8 years!? Christians think God can build a planet in days, Atheist know it took billions of years, Who the fuck do you think has more respect for earth? For a bunch who believe in afterlife I've never seen a larger group of selfish greed materialistic hypocrites.

Any fucking way, they mean God fearing assholes waste there life worrying about GOD and fantasizing about an IMAGINARY afterlife while taking this life and planet for granted, not to mention JUDGING everyone else with different beliefs. The adds were in response to an evangelical group Christian Voice, which had proclaimed that Britain is in "deep sin."

Calm down, dear, it's only a commercial.

Hoatzin

01-18-2009, 08:54 PM

Well I'd say that the whole idea of 'worrying' about God is misplaced.
However, if people believe in something beyond the material perhaps they're less likely to be totally controlled by consumerism, as many millions seem to be these days.

I would think that if people believe in something beyond the material, they'd be used to having its existence questioned.

Perhaps a spiritual renaissance might even lead to changes in the current consumerist culture.

Nah. America is way more religious than Britain is, but every bit as consumerist. I doubt there's any correlation at all.

Hoatzin

01-22-2009, 01:29 AM

Pwned!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/4307344/Atheist-bus-adverts-given-green-light-by-watchdog-despite-326-complaints.html

Can Hipforums start a "There might be a god, but you're still a dick" campaign?

OlderWaterBrother

01-24-2009, 11:28 PM

Not in this country, to my knowledge. If this story had happened in the States I wouldn't have been bothered or surprised. The fact that it's happening somewhere where religion is usually just humoured at best and at least publicly kept as far away from politics is what makes me interested.Speaking of which, in the States there were billboards that proclaimed:

If you don't believe in God, You're not alone.

The advertisers were receiving death threats and all I could think of was; now that’s the Christian way isn’t it?

Hoatzin

01-25-2009, 10:35 PM

Speaking of which, in the States there were billboards that proclaimed:

If you don't believe in God, You're not alone.

The advertisers were receiving death threats and all I could think of was; now that’s the Christian way isn’t it?

It is pretty amazing how easy it is to make some religious folk feel threatened. It's more surprising here, but in either situation, you'd think that a country's largest religion should be able to feel a little more secure in its existence.

Have to say, though, that advert seems a lot less inflammatory. Like, what, how dare anyone suggest that there is, shock horror, more than one atheist in America?

OlderWaterBrother

01-26-2009, 02:37 AM

It is pretty amazing how easy it is to make some religious folk feel threatened. It's more surprising here, but in either situation, you'd think that a country's largest religion should be able to feel a little more secure in its existence.

Have to say, though, that advert seems a lot less inflammatory. Like, what, how dare anyone suggest that there is, shock horror, more than one atheist in America?It's pretty easy to make almost anyone feel threatened but you would think that someone that has God backing them up would be little more forgiving. But hey that's the "Christian" way isn't it? ;)

Hoatzin

01-26-2009, 06:21 PM

It's pretty easy to make almost anyone feel threatened but you would think that someone that has God backing them up would be little more forgiving. But hey that's the "Christian" way isn't it? ;)

Lord only knows. I'd agree, it's amazing how threatened groups who are overwhelmingly in the majority can feel about a tiny minority that presents no real threat to them at all. I think this every time someone claims that immigration will mean that "soon we'll all be standing on each other's shoulders".