At the end of history...

[Ash_Freakstreet]

What will the dominant form of government be like?

[themnax]

when self dicipline has become universal
all forms of government will atrophy from lack of need for them

=^^=
.../\...

[BlackGuardXIII]

themnax, i agree, rules and laws create crime, at least that is what Lao Tzu said, and I agree. If we all got along, and showed each other the proper respect and fairness, there would be no need.

[redsmurfettehead]

i voted anarchy, cuz i believe people are getting fuckin sick and tired of people we don't know telling us how we should live.
it has been prophesied that there will be an upcoming outrage of people who cannot and will not stand for it. in a way, i hope it comes a fact.

[BlackGuardXIII]

of course, on the other hand, at the very end, I actually feel it is very likely that there will be a short, very bloody, period of anarchy when logic kicks in and people realize that love and survival are no longer commensurable, as the resources become more scarce. Murders will skyrocket because, logically, if you know you won't get caught, and your neighbor has food, and you don't, no one is watching and the justice system is overwhelmed already, isn't is logical to go get that food for your kids, and then to ensure you are not found guilty, kill all the witnesses and destroy any evidence.
Sounds harsh, I know, but then Hitler, and Stalin were both very logical.

[redsmurfettehead]

logical, yes, but, anarchy has been misconceived since the begining of anarchy. it really isn't about violence, unfortunately, it has been turned into it. and yea, hitler and stalin had great, logical ideas, they just went a little haywire...okay alot haywire!!!

[BlackGuardXIII]

The regulations that we continue to impose actually increase crime, I believe.
The difference with traditional anarchist cultures and the very near future is the population density, and the scarcity of basic survival resources. That is my picture, too many mouths, not enough food. Studies done with rats showed that density was critically important in determining whether they lived in harmony or not. They showed a pattern of excessive killing when kept too close together, where they did not stop once they reached the lower density level that was peaceful. They killed until there were very few left, and this was done with abundant food available for all of them. We won't have that. So, it will be interesting to see how we fare.

lallalalala alalalalaal llllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaa

[brokenwingz425]

democracy is a lie! spreading it only furthers us from the truth

[JoneeEarthquake]

At the end of history....that sounds really weird to me, the endo of history. hmmmmm

[Epiphany]

The way the Bible explains it... more communisticly controlled

[Ash_Freakstreet]

I think, as in, the evolution of organisms the only thing that nature ordianed to be the purpose of life, was the preservation of our own genetic material through both selfish self-preservation and the altruistic care for kin. Now, in this age where genetic evolution has given way to societal and historical evolution, the equivalent of "evolving lifeforms" is the evolution of social ideas that may one day be implemented for material progress, the equivalent of "genetic material" is information, the DNA of ideas, and the only thing society ordains to be the purpose of interpersonal organization is the preservation of information through a "family" that shares the idea, or otherwise the idea will be destroyed by hostile "predators". Just like the case for "care of kin", ideological "families" will nurture those ideas and serve it as if it was their purpose in life-- and the "ideological family" will function as an organismic whole. Although most ideas and "ideological families" will survive, only the one that is the strongest will dominate. And with promise science has already shown, we can be be pretty confident that the strongest ideas will be the most scientific ones.

Scientific Fascism, it shall be.

[bedlam]

i voted anarchy, cuz i believe people are getting fuckin sick and tired of people we don't know telling us how we should live.
it has been prophesied that there will be an upcoming outrage of people who cannot and will not stand for it. in a way, i hope it comes a fact.

ditto

[ryupower]

I say socialism....but it's not up there....

[Ash_Freakstreet]

i stick to organismiscientism

[Soulless||Chaos]

Anarchy is impossible as there will always be someone who feels they should be in charge...

[BlackGuardXIII]

Anarchy is impossible as there will always be someone who feels they should be in charge...
That makes no sense whatsoever to me. What if lots of people feel they should be in charge? And so what, do they just get to be in charge then? I see chaos once the biomass reaches a critically low level, and the masses are unable to afford food.

[tamino]

...the sun will grow into a red giant consume the inner and outer planets and this will be the end... Glad I won't be around!

[Soulless||Chaos]

That makes no sense whatsoever to me. What if lots of people feel they should be in charge? And so what, do they just get to be in charge then? I see chaos once the biomass reaches a critically low level, and the masses are unable to afford food.
What I mean is eventually groups will form, and will try to take power... Many people would be content to govern themselves, but there will always be those who think their way is the only way... :rolleyes:

[xixafilo]

at the end of the world, it will be very fucked up and nobody will care a bout government anymore, it we be in a state of total anarchy everyone for eveyone or in small families.

[Nimrod's Apprentice]

I voted Anarchy too. More towards a de:evolution though, we will join the wild. Like all the poor animals on this planet, were to stupid to value our community and we just kill each other, try going out into the forest with a group of people, killing them off and then see how you can fend for yourself. Its ridiculous. However always out of Anarchy comes feudalism. Its the only answer because a family can't do shit for themselves. Imagine if anarchy were to brake out in New York, all the drug and gang kingpins, rise to the top. We would just be a country of gangs. You follow whoever has the weapons, because in turn weapons will mean survival. They make you a bitch to do labor or be a guard, those with military experience, join who they want and would be the upper class. BACK TO THE MOTHERF ING WILD PEOPLE! ARE YOU READY!

[bradofcentralpa]

it seems like the only difference between any of these answers is the size of the groups with power....who gives a shit. either we'll all be empowered and enslaved by the markedt, or groups will be empowered, and we'll be enslaved by them! oh well. just don't get noticed and it's all the same!

[Amanda's Shadow]

my btother thought history had already ended, but i didnt. then came september 11. i dont think history will ever end. thast jsut my opinion though.

[NaykidApe]

the world will be run by giant squid-like beings from some undisclosed origin who will set up a benifecent dictatorship over humanity.

[Amanda's Shadow]

a bird flu will knowck out the entire population but pot will make you immune to the bird flu adn so evceryone left ill be us and we will live in peace and harmony buit eventually all die of stds

[Ash_Freakstreet]

nevah mind!

[Edward G.]

this thread is scaring me. :(

[TrippinBTM]

What do you mean, the end of history? I don't think that will ever happen, not for a very long time. Whatever the future may bring, *some* people will survive, and will still be recording things. People are very good at surviving, and it will take a cosmic event or a major geological event to wipe us out entirely.

[matthew]

What I mean is eventually groups will form, and will try to take power... Many people would be content to govern themselves, but there will always be those who think their way is the only way... :rolleyes:
much like now.. so nothing much changes ?..


Persoanly i think we just goes in cycles.. so where ever the cycle is in 6 billion years time (or whenever us mere mortals pass on)....thats going to be how history ends..

[Ash_Freakstreet]

What do you mean, the end of history? I don't think that will ever happen, not for a very long time. Whatever the future may bring, *some* people will survive, and will still be recording things. People are very good at surviving, and it will take a cosmic event or a major geological event to wipe us out entirely.
I didn't mean "The End of History" as in the end of human beings, or an end to recording events in history. I meant "The End of History" in the Marxist sense... where all of society has reached an equilibrium and no more salient changes are happening.

[TrippinBTM]

I didn't mean "The End of History" as in the end of human beings, or an end to recording events in history. I meant "The End of History" in the Marxist sense... where all of society has reached an equilibrium and no more salient changes are happening. You still aren't making any sense, as that will never happen.

[Ash_Freakstreet]

You still aren't making any sense, as that will never happen."The End of History" is a concept that originated in the Writings of Hegel and Marx, more recently it has been popularized by the book, "The End of History and the Last Man" by Francis Fukuyama

Wikipedia entry for the book/theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_history

[BlackBillBlake]

"The End of History" is a concept that originated in the Writings of Hegel and Marx, more recently it has been popularized by the book, "The End of History and the Last Man" by Francis Fukuyama

Wikipedia entry for the book/theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_history
I never liked Fukuyama, and now I think he's just out of date. He saw the collapse of Marxism as the victory of capitalism, something he saw as established beyond doubt - a capitalist utopia.
This seems to be challenged by the rise of Islamic terrorism etc on one hand, the lack of development in the third world, and the question of the sustainability of Industrial capitalism in the face of diminishing rescources and environmental concerns.
Plenty of material there for 'future history'.
I really don't like Fukuyama as I say - really, his whole view is based on a kind of 'crowing' attitude over the decline of Marxism. The 'history' he says has ended is really only the cold war, and it's ideological conflicts. No shortage of new one's to replace them though.
To speak of the end of history seems very pre-mature.

[Art Delfo]

I dont think that there will be an end to human history.Any way after say 2000 years the goverment will be commie.Yes...as the world gets worse Anarchy will not be (unless we do something) possible. The best way to keep people down will be though Commiunism. It has enogh freedom to allow people to do bad things but it really persvers a system to ensure athoer hippie movement is not possible.


Then I think it will all go under and we will have a Therocriy

[Ash_Freakstreet]

I never liked Fukuyama, and now I think he's just out of date. He saw the collapse of Marxism as the victory of capitalism, something he saw as established beyond doubt - a capitalist utopia.
This seems to be challenged by the rise of Islamic terrorism etc on one hand, the lack of development in the third world, and the question of the sustainability of Industrial capitalism in the face of diminishing rescources and environmental concerns.
Plenty of material there for 'future history'.
I really don't like Fukuyama as I say - really, his whole view is based on a kind of 'crowing' attitude over the decline of Marxism. The 'history' he says has ended is really only the cold war, and it's ideological conflicts. No shortage of new one's to replace them though.
To speak of the end of history seems very pre-mature.Yeah, I find fukuyama to be somewhat spurious and his philosophy to be contrived to support what he believed in. But I still believe that a proper use of the Hegelian dialectic can tell us answers about "The End of History"

[themnax]

nothing as yet immagined.

(and both capitolsim and marxism will be long since forgotten any no one will have the sightest idea what you are talking about if you were to go there and ask them about either of those names, or anything resembling either of their descriptions either)

=^^=
.../\...

[Occam]

Yeah, I find fukuyama to be somewhat spurious and his philosophy to be contrived to support what he believed in. But I still believe that a proper use of the Hegelian dialectic can tell us answers about "The End of History" HAAHAHHHAHAHHAHA

'Hegelian dialectic' What a load of crap.. The end of history? what a load of crap..
History ends when reality ends... Hegel predicts when this will happen?
LOL. Hegel is nothing but a man with little knowing.No wiser than u.

Occam thinks 'ash' u need another 20 years of living under your belt
And less reliance on the apparent acuity of others

hehehttp://www.hipforums.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

Occam

[themnax]

it may be nice to be able to remember people's names and schools of thought. i don't know. but i find it a good bit more interesting to remember thoughts that interest me. far more so then identifying them with whoever may have first given them to the rest of us or been credited with doing so.

history ending is a phrase i'm having a hard time getting my mind arround attatching any rational meaning to. granted if there is no sentient awairness in a place, then there is no such awairness noting and remembering events.

i really don't see how squabbles over perspective can have that much to do with the end of anything other then one or several conditions that sentiend awairnessess experience. and even those 'endings' no more perminent then their begginings.

by end of history of course, sentient awairness is specificly aluded to. ok that's fine.
but social movements and perceptions?

their endings are only the endings of themselves. others invariably come and go, likewise, each in its own time.

the greed incentive vs a more altruistic sort of self interest is an egotistical conciet of our own time. a time that is only long when measured in units no longer then centuries, themselves only 1/1000th of a millinia. and while we teach and remember the history of only two or three of those, there are hundreds if not more of THEM in both our past and probable future.

that we each live, few of us as much as a single century, let alone longer, is in a sense double edged. it may make a few centuries seem like for ever, but it also means that momentous events, involving more signifigant time fraims, are unlikely to be witnessed by any single, currently living, one of us.

these social movements, to which such weighty moment is proclaimed, are but the blinking of an eye, their comming and going, on the scale and scope of the trajectory of an entiere sentient species such as our own. on that time scale, they are each, however profound their effects in their own time, no more then passing fads.

=^^=
.../\...

[SageDreamer]

As long as there is government, there will be history.

[Nimrod's Apprentice]

democracy is a lie! spreading it only furthers us from the truthVery True my man, captured well by Martin Scorsese, in the film Gangs of New York, when the Tamany family representative says proudly "we must uphold the appearence of the law!, especially while we are breaking it!"

[MSman]

It must be anarchy, or society would not fall.... except for a reckless nueclear war, then we would be communisticly

[Occam]

Dont worry
human history is stored in our genes.
Hairy heads. not so hairy bodies=clothes
stored and applied by genes since last iceage.
[where only exposed part was heads]

Evolution works in thousand year blocks [not human days]
except for bacteria/virii

Occam

[Nimrod's Apprentice]

how can you be so sure? Are you saying we were all bald when only our heads were exposed? I don't think the future of humanity is written out in our genes at all, cuz that would indicate that there is such a thing as fate proving a higher being to write that fate.

[Occam]

The future of humanity is for humans to decide.
Based on what we have learned.If we ignor such. we have only ourselves to blame. And we ignore such all the time. Why else this 'new vietnam' in iraq?

While genetic traits are personal. Yet fit and change according to enviroment.
Nothing is 'ignored'.
Our evolutionary smarts are way smarter than out individual intellect.

Occam

[Nimrod's Apprentice]

The future of humanity is for nature to decide if it wants to allow us to destroy it anymore.

[themnax]

well it's between us AND nature. we learn to get along with it or we undermine its ability to keep us going to the point it no longer can and we no longer do.

at any rate this isn't likely to be a sufficiently rappid proccess for anything resembling a government in any form to survive it.

as a species we have just as much capacity to turn our earth back, or rather allow it to return to being, the paradise we evolved in, as we have had and continue to have, to turn it into the hell we've made of it.

throwing tecnology out with the bath water isn't going to do us any more good then worshipping it. being a bit more selective about our priorities as to how we want to be able to use it, and the subsiquent directions in which it evolves as a reasult of those priorities may be the only thing that will.

and that means being 'greener', however cleched that phrase may sound by now, and that don't mean the green of little green pieces of paper either.

the two dumbest things we're collectively doing right now is using combustion to generate enery and propel transportation, and trying to make everything have to begin and end with those little green pieces of paper.

i don't think it's any longer nonobvious what we need to be doing and not doing. the hard part that could make us or break us is figuring out how to get our collective selves on the path that our individual AND collective well being requires.

=^^=
.../\...

[Last Stand]

What will the dominant form of government be like?..http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~schauder/cyanos/cylin2_bg.jpg

[zeppelin kid]

Who cares anyway were all gonna die.

[Sininabin]

just my view point but
anarchy is impossible and unnatural.

wolfs have a class structure their is a leader and a loser groups of people have always lived in a form of goverment. but their just animals it really doen't work for people

if their is no goverment then people gather together to try to seize power it is human nature to not be in anarchy. the frist things that happens when a goverment is taken over is a struggle for power, anarchy will work when humans are all dead or have no desire for success. Anarchy can work on paper but human will never be able to be leaderless. Socialism also doen't work because of human design but for slightly differnt reason all socilaism that were ever around were just other forms of dicatators, because someone always wants to be on top

i vote that the world will be controled by religous zealot lead by a iron hand ruler who will get weapons strong enouph to kill opposition as these weapons go back and forth power will be tossed from one strong man to another

[themnax]

if their is no goverment then people gather together to try to seize power it is human nature to not be in anarchy.

this is inaccurate and the belief vested interests want you to have.
the're may always be some who wish to tell others how to live and impose their will upon them, but there is nothing inevetable about their succeeding in doing so, nor natural about romantacizing and idolizing their so doing.

many many many societies have existed for thousands of years, WITHOUT formal hierarchal structures, but instead, defacto consensi, of turning to individuals who know what they are doing, but ONLY in the narrow contexts of what they actualy do, when it is felt that something within the perview of their lore, needed doing, but not otherwise being 'ruled' by anyone or any thing, other then shaired custom.

=^^=
.../\...

[Occam]

ARTHUR:
Then who is your lord?
WOMAN:
We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR:
What?
DENNIS:
I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune.
We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,...
ARTHUR:
Yes.
DENNIS:
...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
ARTHUR:
Yes, I see.
DENNIS:
...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,...
ARTHUR:
Be quiet!
DENNIS:
...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--
ARTHUR:
Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN:
Order, eh? Who does he think he is? Heh.
ARTHUR:
I am your king!

[themnax]

ARTHUR:
Then who is your lord?
WOMAN:
We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR:
What?
DENNIS:
I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune.
We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,...
ARTHUR:
Yes.
DENNIS:
...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
ARTHUR:
Yes, I see.
DENNIS:
...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,...
ARTHUR:
Be quiet!
DENNIS:
...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--
ARTHUR:
Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN:
Order, eh? Who does he think he is? Heh.
ARTHUR:
I am your king!


napolian of be'd'l'am.
resplendent in invissable royal robes.

=^^=
.../\...

[crummyrummy]

hah, I watched that last night

[campbell34]

logical, yes, but, anarchy has been misconceived since the begining of anarchy. it really isn't about violence, unfortunately, it has been turned into it. and yea, hitler and stalin had great, logical ideas, they just went a little haywire...okay alot haywire!!!
Second Timothy chapter 3 verse 1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Ezekiel 37
The Bible tells us that in the latter years we will see the Jews returning to Israel.

According to the Bible, the last government on earth will be headed up by a man who will be controled by Lucifer. The Bible tells us that the last war on earth will be fought for the control of Jerusalem.

The Bible also tells us that America will be destroyed by a nuclear war, and it will happen in one hours time.

[clementinexo]

anarchy of course.

[themnax]

The Bible also tells us that America will be destroyed by a nuclear war, and it will happen in one hours time.

wow! i don't know what bible YOU're talking about, but the king james i've read word for word from one end to the other multiple times, i've never seen where it specificly mentions anything of the kind.

and rather quite directly to the point, the america that exists today was no more then one among of an infinity of as yet unimmagined possibilities at the time any of it was written.

and NO, there was no inevitablity of its comming into existence either.

it is also unlikely, "at the end of history" whatever the heck that might actualy mean, that "america" will even be remembered, or any evidence of its ever having existed remain, let alone itself still doing so.

america, or any other nation existing on this planet today

=^^=
.../\...

[scratcho]

The so-called end of history will see the strongest prevail over what's left of life ,be it humans,bacteriam,squirrels,weather,aliens--whatever.There can be no end of history--just the demise of those who have recorded what thinking beings have been able to understand as history.There will be some very bad shit coming down before we disappear from the scene.

[themnax]

The so-called end of history will see the strongest prevail over what's left of life ,be it humans,bacteriam,squirrels,weather,aliens--whatever.There can be no end of history--just the demise of those who have recorded what thinking beings have been able to understand as history.There will be some very bad shit coming down before we disappear from the scene.

people keep confusing "strongest" with 'most fit'. unless by strongest you MEAN "most fit". which does NOT mean most aggressive nor most physicly advantaged. rather darwinian fitness is the probability of mutualy bennificial COexistence of SPECIES (even though that can and sometimes does, translate into the eating and being eaten, by the individual members of them).

i aggree completely with the middle part of your statement: "humans,bacteriam,squirrels,weather,aliens--whatever.There can be no end of history--just the demise of those who have recorded what thinking beings have been able to understand as history".

as for the end of it, there will allways be good, bad and indefferent, all going on at the same time, and yes, worse then we've seen in our lifetimes, our species has seen before and may again, but please don't forget, the same goes for better then we have as yet immagened as well, and of course a whole lot more of what's in between then either of both.

whether we will have evolved or been replaced, will of course be accademic to those looking back, who will have done so. be they our own decendents or others.

i think what we're doing right now is screwing ourselves and indeed we are seriously cruzin for a bruzin by what we are doing to the web of life and the factors affecting it. especialy by the load of carbon we're dumping into the air and oceans, primarily by using combustion to generate electricity and propell mechanical transportation.

and that we could very well have all the comfort zone we want and are emotionaly attatched to without doing so, just by becoming a little less emotionaly attatched to the ways we are familiar with going about it.

there will certainly, eventualy, come times, hard times for individuals, all individuals of our species, when it's continued existece will hang on a thread and starvation and disease will be quite common. then those times will pass and the times that they do we will reemerge into an environment i would and do envy.

that can, really can, happen, and not so far in our distant future at that.
and of course eventualy, at somepoint, the neccessary conditions for that reemergence will indeed, no longer be there.

and i think under those circumstances what people there are then, will likely have other things on their minds then the 'niceities' of idiology or belief or anything not directly relating to their own immediate individual survival. or if we really will have grown by then, perhapse that of their neighbors.

but i do see many good times as well as bad down the long march of future history remaining ahead of us.

=^^=
.../\...

[scratcho]

It's optimistic to think that humans will even survive for another 3 or 4 million years as has been (somewhat proven) by carbon dating,that humanlike beings have been here that long.The fatal flaw,it would seem,is the strong desire for self aggrandisment relative to what the earth has to offer us humans,and that no one seems to take the population explosion seriously. The ability (?) to ignore warning signs,to procrastinate about what REALLY needs to happen in order to change our and all other lives on the planet is discussed by only a few.It's so obvious that the earth is not being run correctly when you consider that there exists billionaires on the one hand and on the other ,30,00 children die each year worldwide of--name the reasons--starvation,murder,neglect ---and full grown humans are still being chopped up,shot ,tortured,imprisoned,ect,ect.Is this any way to run a planet when we consider ourselves to be intelligent?Our partners ,the other sentient beings ,the ones that serve their and our purposes by being in the chain of life and riding along with us on our journey to??? are disappearing fast and I'm thinking that perhaps we won't be far behind.I don't think it matters in the scheme of things,but wouldn't it be fitting to see that all humans were fed,clothed and housed?Educated?Wouldn't it be fitting to see that nature (our home)was allowed to heal up and to be seen as necessary for our long term well being?When does the present path begin to look ridiculous and immoral?It already does to some of us.In fact it looks down right insane.Who made the rules that we have to be swept head long into the messes that we are confronting?Can the rules be changed?Does it matter?---------Why that's communism!!!! some (most?) would say.That's what is always said when anything that smacks of altruism --love for fellow humans comes up.--------.To my way of thinking all our energy should be going toward the study of the brain,medicine,space travel,education,alternative ways of living ect,and learning how to be real caretakers of the earth and our fellow citizens.But---what the fuck do I know?I'm self educated,so even as they say "a man who represents himself in a court room has a fool for a client"then I suppose I have had a fool for a teacher.

[themnax]

again you see clearly what we are collectively doing that is horribly self harmful. yet the course of events is never on a single track nor headed in a single direction.

humans aren't universaly rocket scientests, so of course not everyone is discussing what really matters and needs to be done. and indeed there are adverse consiquences of this already beggining to appear.

i'm not denying the hard times that are immediately ahead that we are collectively inflicting upon ourselves. my only point is that there may still be a morning after and a very long and diverse future after that morning after and what eventualy becomes of us after THAT, will likely be unrelated to anything going on, or even immaginable now.

of course we COULD already have passed a point of no return environmentaly. we may have past it when we made a god out of the automobile, and became so dependent on electrictiy that we started generating more of it by combustion then elsewise.

but IF we aren't already foredoomed by what we've already done decades past, then there will likely come a time of, in a sense, rebirth, after human population levels have been drasticly decimated by factors not entirely forseeable in their fine details.

a time when oil, coal and other nonrenewable and non self renewing fuels will have become a forgotten and all but unimaginable memory. and once this has come about, we could go on for a very long time, millinia or even megamillinia, once we have learned not to repeat the mystakes being made now, and indeed, with no longer the means of repeating the most harmful of them.

i don't KNOW that we'll (as a species i mean, i know that i personaly as an individual am unlikely to) be arround to wake up after, i just don't KNOW that we won't either.

we may have irreversably chosen a road, decades ago, that leads inevitably to the demise of the entire web of life on this planet. but if we haven't, if on the off chance we might not even at this late hour, be entirely beyond our self redemption so to speak as it were, then there will be that most wonderous time, i look forward to with the envy of knowing it will only dawn well after the natural lifetime of my own generation, and quite probably that of anyone now living.

contrary to vested probaganda, wounderous tecnologies can be devised such as to be completely harmonious with nature and not in any way dependent on the use of combustion. and i fully believe, that should even the tineyest remnant of our species survive to see that day, when nonrenewable fuels have ceased to be abundant, such a world can and will be what ours will then become.

=^^=
.../\...

[themysterytramp]

presumably some kind of successful communism, as that will be the only one (probably) that everyone will be well provided for and not jealous of people who have far more than them.

[themnax]

does anyone REALLY believe, that if we we're all starving or suffocating or both, that even a large minority, let alone a majority of us, would be giving a rats ass about idiology? ANY idiology?

and yes, starving or suffocating, because plants are where the effing air we breathe comes from. vegitative life forms inhale co2, fix carbon and exhale o2 we breathe. animate life forms (yes, ok, there's the very rare odd ceasil animal and benthonic plant, but it IS otherwise pretty unambiguous), like us, breath in the o2 and exhale what the plants breath in and so on. the plants yeald us food and to other animals we eat, and then all of us mobile types, preditors and prey alike, firtilize the plants with our solid waste.

that's the way nature evolved to work togather, which we're screwing up with using as much combustion as we do. along with a lot of other stupid things, but that's the big one.

so idiots cut down all the trees and try to drive arround in big cars, only somewhere between here and there the oil runs out, and eventualy the coal and uranium too.

but wind and water and sun, will always be able to generate energy.

somehow i kinda doubt we'll be arround in our present form to see our sun go red giant. by then we'll have moved on, one way or another. but you never know.

if we don't get our heads out of it, there won't be a web of life to support us in another hundred years or so, the way we've been going. then no web of life, no air to breathe, no food to eat, no us.

forget about going out with making a lot of big holes in the ground full of unhappy dead people, the'll always be some of us somehow survive as long as there is nature and a web of life itself. but without THAT, THEN we're ALL gonners.

=^^=
.../\...

[campbell34]

does anyone REALLY believe, that if we we're all starving or suffocating or both, that even a large minority, let alone a majority of us, would be giving a rats ass about idiology? ANY idiology?

and yes, starving or suffocating, because plants are where the effing air we breathe comes from. vegitative life forms inhale co2, fix carbon and exhale o2 we breathe. animate life forms (yes, ok, there's the very rare odd ceasil animal and benthonic plant, but it IS otherwise pretty unambiguous), like us, breath in the o2 and exhale what the plants breath in and so on. the plants yeald us food and to other animals we eat, and then all of us mobile types, preditors and prey alike, firtilize the plants with our solid waste.

that's the way nature evolved to work togather, which we're screwing up with using as much combustion as we do. along with a lot of other stupid things, but that's the big one.

so idiots cut down all the trees and try to drive arround in big cars, only somewhere between here and there the oil runs out, and eventualy the coal and uranium too.

but wind and water and sun, will always be able to generate energy.

somehow i kinda doubt we'll be arround in our present form to see our sun go red giant. by then we'll have moved on, one way or another. but you never know.

if we don't get our heads out of it, there won't be a web of life to support us in another hundred years or so, the way we've been going. then no web of life, no air to breathe, no food to eat, no us.

forget about going out with making a lot of big holes in the ground full of unhappy dead people, the'll always be some of us somehow survive as long as there is nature and a web of life itself. but without THAT, THEN we're ALL gonners.

=^^=
.../\...
Well the Bible tells us that you will know the end of time is near when you see the Jews return to Israel from a world wide exile, and the Bible states they will recapture Jerusalem. The Bible also tells us that many nations will rise up with a very powerful and unified army to drive the Jews out of their land. The God of the Bible states, that He will allow the Jews to return but not for their sakes, because He said they polluted His name where ever they wandered. God is useing the Jews as bait to anger the other nations to such a point, that they will try and destroy the state of Israel and the Jews. The names of some of the nations that will invade Israel are Islamic nations that we see today. These nations will discover what the Pharoah discovered at the Red Sea crossing. And that is, God is more powerful than man. The invading army will lose five sixths of their forces and the sixth part of them will be turned back. Israel will be saved by God. At this same time, the world and the Jews will discover who God really is. And yet, for the world, the worst is yet to come. A new leader will rise up from Europe, who will make Hitler look like a sunday school teacher. America will nolonger exist at this time, for according to the Scriptures, northern nations will attack her without warning, and all of America's cities will be destroyed in one hours time. And the Bible tells us that no one will ever be able to return because the land will be fully polluted. The Bible also states, that the nations near to her will be destroyed as well.

[themnax]

Well the Bible tells us that you will know the end of time is near when you see the Jews return to Israel from a world wide exile, and the Bible states they will recapture Jerusalem. The Bible also tells us that many nations will rise up with a very powerful and unified army to drive the Jews out of their land. The God of the Bible states, that He will allow the Jews to return but not for their sakes, because He said they polluted His name where ever they wandered. God is useing the Jews as bait to anger the other nations to such a point, that they will try and destroy the state of Israel and the Jews. The names of some of the nations that will invade Israel are Islamic nations that we see today. These nations will discover what the Pharoah discovered at the Red Sea crossing. And that is, God is more powerful than man. The invading army will lose five sixths of their forces and the sixth part of them will be turned back. Israel will be saved by God. At this same time, the world and the Jews will discover who God really is. And yet, for the world, the worst is yet to come. A new leader will rise up from Europe, who will make Hitler look like a sunday school teacher. America will nolonger exist at this time, for according to the Scriptures, northern nations will attack her without warning, and all of America's cities will be destroyed in one hours time. And the Bible tells us that no one will ever be able to return because the land will be fully polluted. The Bible also states, that the nations near to her will be destroyed as well.

sorry, but your "book" is human ink on human paper, written by human hands, like any other book. nowhere in it does any "god" say anything.

nor are even your interpritations of it specificly implied anywhere in it.
and i can absolutely guarantee you there is no mention of "america" in it, any more then there is of chewing gum or pizza.

nor for that matter, can i see the connection you're trying to make between one political entity, such as have come and gone and come and gone for far longer then even your book or its authors, and any sort of complete "end of history".

it is a big universe out there and there are (at least in all probability) as many things "more powerful then man" as there are less powerful then man in it, most of whome have no more slightest idea of our existence then we have of theirs, nor a whole lot of reason to shiv a git either!

none of which, btw, chainges the simple reality that whatever else may or may not happen to exist, it is still up to us, meaning everything that is awaire of its existence, and us alone, to stop messing everything up, for each other.

nor that it is WE, not some god, demon, or little furry green thing from alpha centauri, however wonderful and all that such a being might be, that are destroying the very web of life, the continuation of the existence of the physical forms we occupy, utterly depends upon.

=^^=
.../\...

the broader question, that i see the poll itself as being somewhat ignorant of, is how can you define "history" as "ending" while there is still such a thing as ANY government, in ANY form, let alone concern, as to the form of it? (i'm sorry, but this to me, no sense makes!)

=^^=
.../\...

[campbell34]

sorry, but your "book" is human ink on human paper, written by human hands, like any other book. nowhere in it does any "god" say anything.

nor are even your interpritations of it specificly implied anywhere in it.
and i can absolutely guarantee you there is no mention of "america" in it, any more then there is of chewing gum or pizza.

nor for that matter, can i see the connection you're trying to make between one political entity, such as have come and gone and come and gone for far longer then even your book or its authors, and any sort of complete "end of history".

it is a big universe out there and there are (at least in all probability) as many things "more powerful then man" as there are less powerful then man in it, most of whome have no more slightest idea of our existence then we have of theirs, nor a whole lot of reason to shiv a git either!

none of which, btw, chainges the simple reality that whatever else may or may not happen to exist, it is still up to us, meaning everything that is awaire of its existence, and us alone, to stop messing everything up, for each other.

nor that it is WE, not some god, demon, or little furry green thing from alpha centauri, however wonderful and all that such a being might be, that are destroying the very web of life, the continuation of the existence of the physical forms we occupy, utterly depends upon.

=^^=
.../\...

the broader question, that i see the poll itself as being somewhat ignorant of, is how can you define "history" as "ending" while there is still such a thing as ANY government, in ANY form, let alone concern, as to the form of it? (i'm sorry, but this to me, no sense makes!)

=^^=
.../\...
You might try reading Ezekiel chapters 36, 37, and 39. It tells you what is happening over in Israel, and what is going to happen. Only inspired men of God could of written about the future, before that future happened, and then get it right. But you would need to read those chapters first, before you comment on them.

[themnax]

You might try reading Ezekiel chapters 36, 37, and 39. It tells you what is happening over in Israel, and what is going to happen. Only inspired men of God could of written about the future, before that future happened, and then get it right. But you would need to read those chapters first, before you comment on them.

i have read your entire book multiple times, from end to end, as a book, not a collection of out of place quotes used to justify ignorant fanatacism.

nor is the statement "only inspired men of god ..." consistent with observable reality. to the contrary, any thing that takes place can be construed as having been predicted by any sufficiently large, complex and convoluted collection of verbage.

and again no where in it have i found mention of a united states of america, chewing gum, nor pizza.

nor has this shown any connection between said political entity and any such thing as an "end of history".

=^^=
.../\...

america is as much "that which is ceaser's" as any other nation, and no more "that which is god's" then any other nation either.

if there is such a thing as "men of god" then all "men" are "men of god", even little green furry women from alpha centauri!

=^^=
.../\...

[campbell34]

i have read your entire book multiple times, from end to end, as a book, not a collection of out of place quotes used to justify ignorant fanatacism.

nor is the statement "only inspired men of god ..." consistent with observable reality. to the contrary, any thing that takes place can be construed as having been predicted by any sufficiently large, complex and convoluted collection of verbage.

and again no where in it have i found mention of a united states of america, chewing gum, nor pizza.

nor has this shown any connection between said political entity and any such thing as an "end of history".

=^^=
.../\...

america is as much "that which is ceaser's" as any other nation, and no more "that which is god's" then any other nation either.

if there is such a thing as "men of god" then all "men" are "men of god", even little green furry women from alpha centauri!

=^^=
.../\...
So you have read the Bible multiple times. Well it's sad to see with all that reading, you have learned nothing. Because if you would of learned anything, you would of understood that the Bible often does not give names. The foundation of the Christian faith is the Old Testament, yet at no time does the Old Testament ever give the name Jesus Christ. Now how can the Old Testament be the foundation of the Christian faith, and yet never mention the name Jesus Christ? Because when you understand that, then you will understand why you cannot find the name of the United States. Yet I can assure you, that the United States is there, and in no less than three full chapters. Perhaps you should read the Bible a little slower this time, and maybe even ask a 13 year old who attends Sunday School to explain to you, how the Bible operates.

[themnax]

So you have read the Bible multiple times. Well it's sad to see with all that reading, you have learned nothing. Because if you would of learned anything, you would of understood that the Bible often does not give names. The foundation of the Christian faith is the Old Testament, yet at no time does the Old Testament ever give the name Jesus Christ. Now how can the Old Testament be the foundation of the Christian faith, and yet never mention the name Jesus Christ? Because when you understand that, then you will understand why you cannot find the name of the United States. Yet I can assure you, that the United States is there, and in no less than three full chapters. Perhaps you should read the Bible a little slower this time, and maybe even ask a 13 year old who attends Sunday School to explain to you, how the Bible operates.

this is what is called fanatacism. the belief that anyone bennifits from their perspective being narrowed. something your christ himself objected to.

it is also waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off the subject of any such thing as an "end of history".

=^^=
.../\...

[campbell34]

this is what is called fanatacism. the belief that anyone bennifits from their perspective being narrowed. something your christ himself objected to.

it is also waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off the subject of any such thing as an "end of history".

=^^=
.../\...
THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE.

And the Bible is the Book of truth. The problem is, you know little about the Bible, and I don't care how many times you have claimed to of read it. You have demonstrated to me that the very basics of the Bible you don't understanding. And if anyone tells you the Bible speaks of the future, you scream fanatacism. Jesus Christ fulfilled over 300 prophecies that were written in the Old Testament, and these prophecies were written hundreds of years before He came to earth. And this is a fact. The name United States does not appear in Scripture, yet we have three chapters that describes the United States. Just as we had many prophecies that described Jesus Christ. And because of those prophecies, we now have two billion people on earth who call Jesus Christ Lord. These prophecies that speak about the U.S. tell us what will happen to her near the end of time.

[Ruberx Omati]

lol this is twatish and unjustified. the end of time is a silly thing to say because we will still experience a sense of time. or...we might be ascending to the kind of type that move metaphysically in a figure of eight system.

either way...nostradamus has given America the grand ole title of archdemon to be destroyed and that can come through a: human-political-spiriatual revolution or b: through natural disaster. for a god fearing country they sure are slow on the uptake, or am i wrong? i hope so because america as a country is a bit godly, you know, it's got everything, mountains, plains, jungles, beaches, forests, countryside like england (where i live) and icey bits. so lets hope the people survive...and stop eating meat it is barely efficient for land use. in fact its terrible.

And are we hoping for some sort of god emperor with this second coming malarky. Dear Lord, I hope so. everyone learning SPIRITUALITY in schools instead of this monotheistic balomy we get...just got on my tits a bit at school.

bye