playing god

[7river]

so i have a dog here...bout 14 years old. my moms dog but she cant have dogs where she lives so i got her. she's getting pretty old. deaf, almost blind, whines and moans randomly just when shes laying around. Sometimes she cant get up and we need to lift her ass end for her. shes just a small dog, looks like a fox.
latley she started peeing on the area rugs...she just cant hold it.

the question is whats the right thing to do? if she was free roaming in a pack she would have been cyotee food a long time ago. now she seems in pain at times. do i have the right to make a choice on her life? i mean i am now. i choose to possibly let her suffer cause i don't want to deal with the other choice. can i play god? when we choose to take in a domesticated animal who is shifted out of the natural food chain/cycle where does our responsibility lie?

[nirgal]

That's a tough one. I had to carry our dog for nearly a year because she couldn't do more than stand.... we managed her pain, but that damaged her kidneys..... She died on her own
Yeah it's our responsibility when we take on the care of an animal, but when all it can do is suffer, then death is a release.
Best to you

I died as a mineral, and rose a plant,
I died as a plant, and rose again an animal,
I died as an animal, and rose a man.
Why then should I fear to become less by dying?

I shall die once again as a man,
To rise an angel, perfect from head to foot.
Again, when I suffer dissolution as an angel,
I shall become what passes the conception of man.

Rumi

[HoneySuckleBlue]

I don't view death as a bad thing either, only when there are others depending on the ones living is it a loss.

It stinks you have to make such difficult decisions, but the poor thing sounds miserable.

[luvndrumn]

Not like playing God, more like "caretaker/giver".

We now have eight cats (not including my daughter's). Over the years, we've had to put two to sleep (don't we come up with wonderful sounding euphemisms?). They were old and their bodies were failing them, making the act of living very difficult, bordering on the impossible. Their quality of life was very poor. And if they lived in the wild, the Mother would have taken them long ago. It was hard, emotionally as well as intellectually, to let them go, to "help" them on. But I feel it was the right thing to do. We had another pass on recently. She had been blind for two years, but negotiated the house, finding the water dish, the food dishes, the litter boxes, her favorite place to snooze, and us without any problem. We noticed she was getting thinner so we figured her time was running out. I found her one night all twisted up. She had suffered a stroke. So I sat with her and stroked her until my wife came home from work. She then sat with her and stroked her untill Wizzie passed.

I can't advocate putting down an animal that can still live without pain (of course aging has its aches, I'm not talking about those). But if the pain of "being" is dibilitating, then I believe that existance is not quality life.

It's a hard place, where you are sitting now. But your heart is good. As is your soul. Call your mom.

Be at peace.

[mariecstasy]

quality of life is very important. your responsibility lies in the dogs survival and happiness. sounds like its time to weigh out the quality of life question.
its hard to put them down. my sis and her boyfriend are going through this as well. except their dog has actually attacked people. but once you love and care for a critter, its hard to disconnect and do what would be best for the animal.
your arguement about the animal having been entered into the food chain, is very valid. i think you know your answer. it is just carrying it through
much strength to you!

[7river]

just wanted to thank you all for the comments...forgot you can't read my mind:)

she seems ok this week...as treebeard would say..."don't be hasty!"

[luvndrumn]

Well, we could read your mind, but you've turned that feature off.:)

Glad to hear she's doing better.

[mariecstasy]

just wanted to thank you all for the comments...forgot you can't read my mind:)

she seems ok this week...as treebeard would say..."don't be hasty!"

oh a lord of the rings reference, how exciting

[7river]

i just spent a couple minutes reading over all these posts...i really do value them...thank you again.

the time has come. i made an appointment to have a vet come to the house at 4:30 tomorrow afternoon.

i have to admit i'm questioning my strength on this one. this is one place i find myself very weak and unsure. i think its the whole dying by a needle that gets to me. i considered taking her life myself but i don't feel good about taking on that experience either...not now.

now there is the question of burying her. i planned on burying her in the back yard, but as i was writing this the idea of cremating her up on the mountain came to mind. any thoughts on this?
i'm going to sleep on it.

[7river]

this got me thinking...how long do you think it would take to cremate a 25lb dog?
i better look it up. i wonder if the body needs to sit for a while first.

[luvndrumn]

Don't do it yourself. You might end up not liking yourself very much. I've had some experience with this.

I've never cremated any of mine; I've always buried them. Wrapped them in their blanket, put their toy in, put some food in, and afterwards played one of my drums for as long as the muse moved me.

I hope the passage will be smooth for both of you.

[kitty fabulous]

ron,

i'm so sorry to hear about your mom's dog. *hug* it's never easy easy to watch an animal suffer, and sometimes it's even harder to take a hand in ending that suffering.

i've lost 2 wonderful cats over the past few years. i had nini cremated, cosie was burried with nini's ashes (they were sisters). if you have a space to bury her, then bury her. i wouldn't try to cremate an animal myself. the fire would have to be very hot in order to burn the bones, and it would be horrible to watch.

if you can, try to do something special for her burial. when i burried cosie, it was in a friend's yard, and even though he offered me the space, he was kind of a jerk about it when it came time to do the actual burrying. cosie was a very special cat, and i would have liked to have done something more for her burial.

i know it's difficult, but i think you did the right thing.

[7river]

i realize from pm and email i kinda left everyone hanging on this...sorry about that.

all went smooth. we buried her. i took her up on the mountain with me and she stumbled around while i dug her grave. she enjoyed that.

peace love and laughter :)

[Moominpappa]

all went smooth. we buried her. i took her up on the mountain with me and she stumbled around while i dug her grave. she enjoyed that.

:)
Ron - can you just clarify the exact chain of events - my minds stuck on a rather Edgar Allen Poe scenario....

[7river]

well you did it again...damn i just start chuckleing :)


the first hole i dug i hit a rock self at about two feet...it is a big rock after all. princess (i didn't name her) fell in that one. i helped her out...not yet! it was not raining and no crows no basements or buried alive http://hipforums.com/forums/images/icons/newicons/icon25.gif
i had a vet come to the house, sshe checked her all out and gave her a sedative, she was lying on the couch on her favorate blanket. amanda couldn't deal and said her goodbyes and went to her friends teary eyed. zack and i held her and said our goodbyes and told her we loved her...thats it, she got the needle while being petted and didn't feel i thing, the vet checked her twice by my request to be sure she passed. i wraped her in the blanket, then in a garbage bag for transport. i buried her in the blanket...nice and warm for her journey. she looked quite cozy down there all bundled up. after we buried her zack and i gathered some rocks to cover the grave so coyotes would not dig her up.
we said a prayer and asked the elemental beings and nature spirits of the mountain to guide and help her along with her journey.

the end :)

uhhh, was that a rhetorical question? :)

[luvndrumn]

It's hardly the sort of thing where one would say "Nicely done", however... "Nicely done".

You're a good ol soul.

[mariecstasy]

ron-you are so inspirational in your endevors to do right and just.
*hats off to ya*

[Scholar_Warrior]

it sounds like you made a thoughtful, careful decision. I know it was not easy. life is often more difficult than death I think.

the reason I let my cats out doors is because of my view to live a life close to one's nature. cats need to be outside at least some of the time! otherwise they can never truly be cats.


one night months ago, after one of my cats evaded all my efforts to bring her in for the night, I heard a death shriek and part of me knew that it was my cat, but my mind explained it away. my cat never came home. a few weeks back I found the jawbone of my cat (I know it was my cat) in the back yard.

she lived a relatively short, but full and relatively natural life! I have no sorrow for her, though occassionally maybe a little for myself. she lived her life with all her spirit!

may your friend in this life find peace, and the next step in evolution spiritually.

[Moominpappa]

well you did it again...damn i just start chuckleing :)
..............
it was not raining and no crows no basements or buried alive http://hipforums.com/forums/images/icons/newicons/icon25.gif
.................................
uhhh, was that a rhetorical question? :)
Every king should have a jester my lord, and you are surely a prince amongst men. Sleep soundly my prince, for if the deed must be done, tis best done well or not all all. And with these deeds and with these rites you make no claim upon the land, but give back that which belongs there and set free that which does not.

Death before burial - let this poor fool repeat the mantra so that he can go to his grave a happy, (and certified deceased) man. As to rhetoric, my lord, t'would be a foolish man who would stoop to parody the prose and style of some great wordsmith to disinter comfort in the graveyard hour from whence it rest in eternal slumber. For now, the moral of of our thread should read, Tis All's Well that Ends Well.

[mariecstasy]

mmp.......can you adopt me?

[Moominpappa]

mmp.......can you adopt me?
Legally - probably not, but what the hell, the more the merrier, (as Henry VIII said!)

[7river]

i have no words to express my warmth towards you...only a smile.
:)

[UrsusKind]

That's a tough one. I had to carry our dog for nearly a year because she couldn't do more than stand.... we managed her pain, but that damaged her kidneys..... She died on her own
Yeah it's our responsibility when we take on the care of an animal, but when all it can do is suffer, then death is a release.
Best to you

I died as a mineral, and rose a plant,
I died as a plant, and rose again an animal,
I died as an animal, and rose a man.
Why then should I fear to become less by dying?

I shall die once again as a man,
To rise an angel, perfect from head to foot.
Again, when I suffer dissolution as an angel,
I shall become what passes the conception of man.

Rumi
Nirgal you know what someone said you were cool in another post and now I see why. I want that on my tombstone.

That is the best way to view it all man .