A couple of questions

[jahmerimaka]

I am not a christian. But i have a couple of questions.

1) Is there a difference between god and jesus? Is Jesus the human form of god? Who is judging on "judgment day". god or jesus?

2) What is the difference between god satan and jesus? God is immortal and has control over destiny and peoples lives. But satan is also immortal. and has control over people. So if god is the only immortality and form of a "god", then wouldnt that mean satan is god aswell? Who do you meet when you go to heaven/hell?

[jahmerimaka]

Anybody have any answer for me?

[neodude1212]

I am not a christian. But i have a couple of questions.

1) Is there a difference between god and jesus? Is Jesus the human form of god? Who is judging on "judgment day". god or jesus?
when you say God, I assume you are referring to God the Father. But the most fundamental explanation to your question is that of the trinity. Supposedly, "God" is an entity that is a combination of three parts, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus would be the Son, while what most people refer to as God, would be the Father.

2) What is the difference between god satan and jesus? God is immortal and has control over destiny and peoples lives. But satan is also immortal. and has control over people. So if god is the only immortality and form of a "god", then wouldnt that mean satan is god aswell? Who do you meet when you go to heaven/hell?
I dont understand why you say God and Satan have contol over people and their lives. If they did, then we would not have free will. Also, I wouldn't equate "immortal" and "eternal" as necessarily the same thing.

[OlderWaterBrother]

1) Is there a difference between god and jesus? Is Jesus the human form of god? Who is judging on "judgment day". god or jesus?Yes, there is a difference between God and Jesus. Just as your father is different from you, God is different from his son, Jesus.
No, Jesus is not the human form of God.
Jesus is the one appointed by God to "judge the living and the dead." So Jesus does the judging under the authority of God.
2) What is the difference between god satan and jesus? God is immortal and has control over destiny and peoples lives. But satan is also immortal. and has control over people. So if god is the only immortality and form of a "god", then wouldnt that mean satan is god aswell? Who do you meet when you go to heaven/hell?The three you mention are all spirit beings with different personalities. Yes, God is immortal but Satan is not. If you were able to go to heaven that is where God and Jesus reside and you would see them. You would not see Satan as he has been cast out of heaven to the earth. If you went to hell you would see no one because hell is the common grave of mankind and you would be dead and would not be able to see anything.

[Floating High]

When ever you say God, I believe you would be talking about God the Father. But you also may be talking about God the Son. Which is Jesus. Really, they're different and the same at the same time. God is god of course. No doubt about that. But Jesus was Half man, Half God the Father. It's complicated... And God is good Satan is Evil. That one is straight forward

[dollydagger]

I am not a christian. But i have a couple of questions.

1) Is there a difference between god and jesus? Is Jesus the human form of god? Who is judging on "judgment day". god or jesus?

2) What is the difference between god satan and jesus? God is immortal and has control over destiny and peoples lives. But satan is also immortal. and has control over people. So if god is the only immortality and form of a "god", then wouldnt that mean satan is god aswell? Who do you meet when you go to heaven/hell?

My opinion:

1) When I think of the trinity, i believe that all three are inherently one. God the father, Jesus the son, and the holy spirit are all parts to one whole. Now, you can look at other Christian doctrines and sects, and some do not recognize the trinity at all. Judgement day would be God, but since (IMO) God and Jesus are interchangeable, then it would be both. It's like Mahayana Buddhist belief that the Buddah IS the embodiment of the universe (or God - to me both are the same -just a different name, that's all) and when the Buddha left his physical body in mortal death, he then rejoined the universe (or God)

2) According to legend, Satan was God's favorite angel and got so full of pride that he thought he could take God over. Also, accordint to Milton's Paradise Lost, Satan became jelouse of Man because he saw that God loved Man more than the angels. The angels in heaven thus split into two sides, a war ensued, and Satan and his army was eventually smote, kicked out of heaven and fell. Enter snake in Garden of Eden.....
So in looking at it that way, Satan is NOT God, he is a fallen angel. And God and Satan are still at war fighting for either the Salvation of Man (God) or the Damnation of Man (Satan). Now as for who do you meet?? Who freaking knows....who knows if anything happens after you die. You ever heard a story about the afterlife firsthand? Me neither......

I hope this helped you to get answers....

[Lynnbrown]

My opinion:

1) When I think of the trinity, i believe that all three are inherently one. God the father, Jesus the son, and the holy spirit are all parts to one whole. Now, you can look at other Christian doctrines and sects, and some do not recognize the trinity at all. Judgement day would be God, but since (IMO) God and Jesus are interchangeable, then it would be both. It's like Mahayana Buddhist belief that the Buddah IS the embodiment of the universe (or God - to me both are the same -just a different name, that's all) and when the Buddha left his physical body in mortal death, he then rejoined the universe (or God)

2) According to legend, Satan was God's favorite angel and got so full of pride that he thought he could take God over. Also, accordint to Milton's Paradise Lost, Satan became jelouse of Man because he saw that God loved Man more than the angels. The angels in heaven thus split into two sides, a war ensued, and Satan and his army was eventually smote, kicked out of heaven and fell. Enter snake in Garden of Eden.....
So in looking at it that way, Satan is NOT God, he is a fallen angel. And God and Satan are still at war fighting for either the Salvation of Man (God) or the Damnation of Man (Satan). Now as for who do you meet?? Who freaking knows....who knows if anything happens after you die. You ever heard a story about the afterlife firsthand? Me neither......

I hope this helped you to get answers....

^What Dolly said sums it up pretty well, imo.
Plus, it furthur says in the Bible that satan Is the prince of this world - but that does Not make him a god. Satan is allowed only as much influence as a person allows him.

[ad10]

There is supposed to be an angel that meets you in heaven and either lets you in or sends you to hell. I think it was St Michael? someone else may be able to confirm who it is.

[Ukr-Cdn]

It has been convention and pop cultue that St Peter meets you at the "gates of heaven" because Jesus says that he will have the keys to heaven.

[ad10]

yeah thats the one. cheers.

[Lynnbrown]

For some reason, I feel convicted to add that, in my understanding of the Lord God, that Yes, indeed, Jesus was God in human form - thus making the True trinity, which we've already discussed. (God the father, the Son and the Holy Ghost)
To me, that - the fact that Jesus was the only perfect human (and he only lasted 33 years here in flesh)- differentiates the Lord God Jehovah from the others.
For the Bible, itself does Not deny the presence of other "gods". If you want, I can give scripture - but that's the truth. iIn fact to separate God the Father from the Son is quite wrong, and can give scripture.

After the Birth of Jesus, His life and Ascention - a Lot of things previously done in "worshiping" God completely changed.

In my opinion, if one had never Known God and were to read Only the Red Words in the New Testament, those words spoken by Jesus before And after resurrection from the grave (but before Ascention), and even Try do to as He asks, your life will/would change. Again, I hope not to start a big dealio debate and can back up what I say - for the Vast Majority - with scripture. I'm just answering and letting you know that following God as Master and Jesus' example as a human will give you a life of peace like no other. :)
Now I'm Always a sinning, He Expects that (that's in there, too!); but, truly the longer I've strived to do right, following His example, the better:D

[OlderWaterBrother]

For some reason, I feel convicted to add that, in my understanding of the Lord God, that Yes, indeed, Jesus was God in human form - thus making the True trinity, which we've already discussed. (God the father, the Son and the Holy Ghost)
To me, that - the fact that Jesus was the only perfect human (and he only lasted 33 years here in flesh)- differentiates the Lord God Jehovah from the others.
For the Bible, itself does Not deny the presence of other "gods". If you want, I can give scripture - but that's the truth. iIn fact to separate God the Father from the Son is quite wrong, and can give scripture.

After the Birth of Jesus, His life and Ascention - a Lot of things previously done in "worshiping" God completely changed.

In my opinion, if one had never Known God and were to read Only the Red Words in the New Testament, those words spoken by Jesus before And after resurrection from the grave (but before Ascention), and even Try do to as He asks, your life will/would change. Again, I hope not to start a big dealio debate and can back up what I say - for the Vast Majority - with scripture. I'm just answering and letting you know that following God as Master and Jesus' example as a human will give you a life of peace like no other. :)
Now I'm Always a sinning, He Expects that (that's in there, too!); but, truly the longer I've strived to do right, following His example, the better:DIf you only read the words in red, as you suggested, you will notice the Jesus himself NEVER said that he was God or part of some trinity and only said he was God's son and that he was here on earth to do God's will not his own will. So, seeing as I tend to believe what Jesus actually said in this matter, it would seem Jesus is God's son and not the Lord God Jehovah and not part of some trinity (a word never even used in the Bible). ;)

[Lynnbrown]

If you only read the words in red, as you suggested, you will notice the Jesus himself NEVER said that he was God or part of some trinity and only said he was God's son and that he was here on earth to do God's will not his own will. So, seeing as I tend to believe what Jesus actually said in this matter, it would seem Jesus is God's son and not the Lord God Jehovah and not part of some trinity (a word never even used in the Bible). ;)

I truly hope this will inspire at least some people to read those Red Words, because there are Many instances in which Jesus Does, in fact, say that he and God are one and/or the same. I will cite only a few: John 10:30;
John 14: 9-14; John 16:26-28, John 5: 22,23.
The following verses are in the Bible; but not in Red. However, I still feel they are pertinent in this:
For those that separate the Son from the Father - read 2 John 7-9 or
1 John 4: 1-3. Jude had a bit to say about all of this, too. ;)

[Okiefreak]

I truly hope this will inspire at least some people to read those Red Words, because there are Many instances in which Jesus Does, in fact, say that he and God are one and/or the same. I will cite only a few: John 10:30;
John 14: 9-14; John 16:26-28, John 5: 22,23.
The following verses are in the Bible; but not in Red. However, I still feel they are pertinent in this:
For those that separate the Son from the Father - read 2 John 7-9 or
1 John 4: 1-3. Jude had a bit to say about all of this, too. ;)There's an interesting pattern to the sources you cite: John, John, John, John, John, John, and oh yes, Jude. None of the synoptic gospels are cited. John is generally believed to be the last of the gospels, written circa 90-100 A.D., and reflecting the highest "Christology"--i.e., doctrinal elaboration about the divine nature of Jesus. Traditional Christians believe it is equally inspired and true, as the word of God. Critical scholars suspect that it reflects a the triumph of dogma over reality.

[Lynnbrown]

There's an interesting pattern to the sources you cite: John, John, John, John, John, John, and oh yes, Jude. None of the synoptic gospels are cited. John is generally believed to be the last of the gospels, written over a century after the death of Jesus, and reflecting the highest "Christology"--i.e., doctrinal elaboration about the divine nature of Jesus. Traditional Christians believe it is equally inspired and true, as the word of God. Critical scholars suspect that it reflects a the triumph of dogma over reality.

I'm pretty sure I don't understand just what you're trying to tell me, but I do hope you realize that the reason I used the first group of "Johns" is because it was what Jesus said. I was replying to the fact that supposedly Jesus had not said what I knew He did say. John was simply the easiest (and shortest - my bad) to quote Jesus from.
The rest were 1st and 2nd John, completely different books, giving info on how to view "separating" Jesus from God.

[Okiefreak]

I'm pretty sure I don't understand just what you're trying to tell me, but I do hope you realize that the reason I used the first group of "Johns" is because it was what Jesus said. I was replying to the fact that supposedly Jesus had not said what I knew He did say. John was simply the easiest (and shortest - my bad) to quote Jesus from.
The rest were 1st and 2nd John, completely different books, giving info on how to view "separating" Jesus from God.
Do you "know" that He said it because it's in the Gospel according to John? All I was saying is that there are those who aren't sure the Gospel according to John is reliable. Of course, there are those who aren't sure that the other gospels are reliable either, but more are suspicious about John because it was the last, reflects strong Greek influence in identifying Jesus with the Logos, and portrays Him as somewhat less human and more godlike than the others. The thinking is that as time past, Jesus became more godlike and less human to followers who never met the man. But if you believe that all four gospels are divinely inspired, you're correct that there is strong support for Jesus' divinity in that gospel.

[Lynnbrown]

If it would be better, I found some references in Matthew and Mark - Luke I'm still working with.:)

Back to the original post: Like dolly said: We'll know when we know - about the judgement.

and I'm strange enough to believe that one God Could be all (mine is Jehovah in His Trinity!) He could possibly be Buddha to his people, Muhammed to his, Allah, etc. - and a sincere, Unselfish, and spiritual path where you recognize a Master Creator - well, it could well all lead to the same place. I realize this may flip some people out, and I'm sorry ahead of time.:piggy:

I'm more than fulfulled in my belief system; yet I cannot judge someone else's spiritual path toward (unselfish) enlightment.

And this is neither the place nor time to go into my thoughts on the devil
Believe me.:D Sticking with what I've already said is enough for one post, huh?;)

[xexon]

To those that actually know God, there is one definition.

To those that don't, there will be many.


x

[dollydagger]

and I'm strange enough to believe that one God Could be all (mine is Jehovah in His Trinity!) He could possibly be Buddha to his people, Muhammed to his, Allah, etc. - and a sincere, Unselfish, and spiritual path where you recognize a Master Creator - well, it could well all lead to the same place. I realize this may flip some people out, and I'm sorry ahead of time.:piggy:



not strange at all...I believe that God (or whatever name one addresses their higher beleifs) has his/her people in all persuasions. If anyone just studies a bit of Religion, it is folly to not recognize certain similarities.

[Lynnbrown]

not strange at all...I believe that God (or whatever name one addresses their higher beleifs) has his/her people in all persuasions. If anyone just studies a bit of Religion, it is folly to not recognize certain similarities.

God bless you and thank you, dollydagger, for letting me know I'm not alone with these thoughts. For I thought you had expressed basically the same idea, albeit more eloquently.:)
So many people that consider themselves Christians would consider such thoughts (as ours) heresy, if not outright blasphemy - something (the blasphemy) I would/will avoid at all costs!
at any rate, thanks :D

[Amanda's Shadow]

Q: Is there a difference between god and jesus? Is Jesus the human form of god? Who is judging on "judgment day". god or jesus?

A: Chrisitians believe in a tri-une God. God is both one and three. Because in Christianity, God IS love and love is relational, God must have more than one part. The three parts are the father, son, and the holy spirit. They are all God. The son, jesus was there in the beginning with the father and the word of god (the holy spirit) God's love was so great for his creation (us!) that it "overflowed" and he gave us part of him (jesus) to be both fully human and fully god (not demi-God) and to die for our sins.

It sounds mythological, and it it. The way they teach it in grade school is like a clover. 1 clover with 3 leaves. Thats the tri-une God.

God (all three parts) are there on judgement day, if you believe in that.

[Amanda's Shadow]

i just learned that in theology class...

Im more unitarian i think.

[OlderWaterBrother]

I truly hope this will inspire at least some people to read those Red Words, because there are Many instances in which Jesus Does, in fact, say that he and God are one and/or the same. I will cite only a few: John 10:30;
John 14: 9-14; John 16:26-28, John 5: 22,23.
The following verses are in the Bible; but not in Red. However, I still feel they are pertinent in this:
For those that separate the Son from the Father - read 2 John 7-9 or
1 John 4: 1-3. Jude had a bit to say about all of this, too. ;)It never ceases to amaze me that when you tell a Trinitarian that Jesus never said he was God, they always trot out the same, about 12 scriptures and say look he did too.

The truth is there is no scripture where Jesus comes right out and says; I’m God or I’m God almighty in the flesh, he just never said it.

So what it comes down to is Trinitarians saying well he said this and that means he was saying he was God.

My personal favorite is the one about the “I am”, where they use a bad translation and poor grammar to try and prove Jesus is God almighty.

My second favorite is the one you used John 10:30. There is at least two ways this scripture can be viewed. One is the way that you view it, that Jesus is saying that he is God and part of a Trinity. Another way to view it is that Jesus was saying something like he and his Father stand together in thought and purpose as if they were one person, like any son might say about his father, which seems to be more in agreement with the context as well.

So how can we tell which is correct? Well I would suggest we let Jesus himself tell us what he means by it, as he does in (John 17:18-22), where he seems to be saying the latter and not that he was God and part of some Trinty.

PS as for separating Jesus from God, Jesus is now at the right hand of God and nothing I say or do will separate the two.

[dollydagger]

God bless you and thank you, dollydagger, for letting me know I'm not alone with these thoughts. For I thought you had expressed basically the same idea, albeit more eloquently.:)
So many people that consider themselves Christians would consider such thoughts (as ours) heresy, if not outright blasphemy - something (the blasphemy) I would/will avoid at all costs!
at any rate, thanks :D

I think there are many, many more that think like this out there....isnt that what we christians are supposed to do...love everyone? I dont know if you have come across this in your readings, but i believe it is either in the letters of Paul or Peter (or both!) that says we are not here to judge for that is God's duty, and we are here to just love an accept everyone despite differences....and it really makes me mad when people who call themselves Christian FORGET this part?!!!!(and have been disregarding it since the beginning!!)

(and thanks for the compliment! I never would call myself eloquent by any means, but thanks anyway!)

[Lynnbrown]

I think there are many, many more that think like this out there....isnt that what we christians are supposed to do...love everyone? I dont know if you have come across this in your readings, but i believe it is either in the letters of Paul or Peter (or both!) that says we are not here to judge for that is God's duty, and we are here to just love an accept everyone despite differences....and it really makes me mad when people who call themselves Christian FORGET this part?!!!!(and have been disregarding it since the beginning!!)

Yeah - the older I've gotten and the more I've read, the more I've found that Many so-called Christians seem to live to judge others, pick others words and actions apart, etc. Quite the opposite of what the Point of the Bible is, wouldn't you say?! Especially if you Call yourself a Christian, and would want to be considered a representative of the Master! Why not follow All of the bible, not just the parts that appeal to you?
The term "Christian" is used much to loosely, imho, nowadays.:)

[Ukr-Cdn]

I think there are many, many more that think like this out there....isnt that what we christians are supposed to do...love everyone? I dont know if you have come across this in your readings, but i believe it is either in the letters of Paul or Peter (or both!) that says we are not here to judge for that is God's duty, and we are here to just love an accept everyone despite differences....and it really makes me mad when people who call themselves Christian FORGET this part?!!!!(and have been disregarding it since the beginning!!)

(and thanks for the compliment! I never would call myself eloquent by any means, but thanks anyway!)

Love everyone? What is the anture of love? How do you love those who commit genocide in Germany, Ukriane and to a lesser extend Khazakstan, Rwanda, South America, Darfur, Bosnia, Ottoman Empire, Belgian Congo etc. How are we suopposed to love these people?

Something a preist I am taking a film and theology class has continually brought up is that Christianity is seen as a "nice" religion where you love everyone. But really it isn't that nice at all and presents people with serious issues. Im I supposed to love Stalin?

[Lynnbrown]

Love everyone? What is the anture of love? How do you love those who commit genocide in Germany, Ukriane and to a lesser extend Khazakstan, Rwanda, South America, Darfur, Bosnia, Ottoman Empire, Belgian Congo etc. How are we suopposed to love these people?

Something a preist I am taking a film and theology class has continually brought up is that Christianity is seen as a "nice" religion where you love everyone. But really it isn't that nice at all and presents people with serious issues. Im I supposed to love Stalin?

Christians are supposed to hate the sin and love the sinner.
I in particular have trouble in not judging child molesters and wishing them to burn in everlasting hell. However, in my belief system I will be forgiven this.
Christians are not expected to live sin Free, just to strive toward this as we Try and love our fellow man.
This World's Society has "presented people with serious issues".
Christianity will tell you how to (best) deal with one such as Stalin.

[Ukr-Cdn]

I really find it a cop out when people say they love the sinner but hate the sin. What does that even mean, how do yopu practice that?

I have some ideas, but I don't really like it when people just say it and think that it is the summation of their ideology. How does one love the sinner. Yes it is easy for someone to love and forgive someone for lying, but how do you persopnally love Hitler? Stalin? Child molesters?

You say that you do wwant them to burn in hell, but that you will be forgiven for this. Are you, in two sentences, basically calling yourself a huge hypocrite

[Lynnbrown]

I really find it a cop out when people say they love the sinner but hate the sin. What does that even mean, how do yopu practice that?

I have some ideas, but I don't really like it when people just say it and think that it is the summation of their ideology. How does one love the sinner. Yes it is easy for someone to love and forgive someone for lying, but how do you persopnally love Hitler? Stalin? Child molesters?

You say that you do wwant them to burn in hell, but that you will be forgiven for this. Are you, in two sentences, basically calling yourself a huge hypocrite

First off, that was what you asked - how were Christians supposed to view various and assorted evilness. That is the answer - we are supposed to hate the sin and love the sinner. I certainly did not realize you desired a summation of my ideology. Foolish me, I thought this could be an exchange of thoughts without pointing fingers, calling names, etc.
If you are familiar at all with the bible you will recall that it is expected of us to always sin - each of us in different ways. When I have felt (in my past) like picking apart Christianity, I always tended to regard my own personal life and woes and compared to others - I was not then, nor am I now concerned with worrying over Hitler, Stalin or others like them.
As I said, it is difficult for me not to judge certain sinners - and as I said this, I was merely personalizing it for you. Again foolish me, I was letting you know that I have my own personal sin(s) to deal with, not being perfect and all. :D However, I do try, with some success to Not judge molesters and find myself having to "hand that to God" - if you will. That is the way I personally deal with things that I find myself thinking/doing that I should Not do. When it comes to me "That is enough" - I Stop. Then:
I ask Him for forgiveness. I then Strive to do better. A cycle. Like that.
Honesty. NOT Hypocrite.
Since you obviously have enough sense to question, surely you can understand that.

[Lynnbrown]

I should have put this in my past post, but felt it could stand on its own in describing how I perceive one can :

"Love the sinner, hate the sin."

True story: We presently have a female cat (spayed last week), and she had a litter of kittens she decided she was Not going to nurse when the kittens were barely 3 weeks old. So that left Me, only me, to do something w/ these 5 outside baby kittens.
I absolutely positively Hated that Freckles was doing this!!! She could not be enticed to nurse those pitiful babies. Even when shutting her on the porch and closing the door and the babies were practically standing up trying to nurse under her - she would move them away and begin climbing the screen door.
However, I always loved her. I wanted Nothing to happen to her - but for her to get spayed, which did happen.
2 of the kittens died, and 3 have lived, and should do okay - but this was one lesson I have contemplated.
I also feel that is the way God Jehovah views us, His children.

[OlderWaterBrother]

(1 Corinthians 6:9-11) 9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

If you will notice that some in the Christian congregation have in the past done some of the most vile things you can imagine but they stopped and turned themselves around, so if someone stops those things and joins the Christian congregation we are to extend our love to that person and yet hate what was done in the past.

As for those outside the Christian congregation, who continue to do what is bad in God’s eyes, we are to show them love by trying to get them to turn around and stop the bad they are doing and join the Christian congregation but if they will not God will judge them and it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[com7fy8]

jahmerimaka, you asked,
"Is there a difference between god and jesus?"

not in character > It's "like Father, like Son".

So, why didn't Jesus just directly say, "I am God"? Well, if He had done this, and you already have your idea of who God is, then He wouldn't really be telling you anything, would He ? For example, if you already have been believing that God is distant and just judging us, and then Jesus came along and says, "I am God," all this might mean to you is that Jesus is about being distant and judgmental. This, of course, in church history is how many have seen and represented God . . . as being distant, wanting to prove superiority, etc. . . . like the ones who represented Him to be like this.

What I'm considering is, that Jesus didn't come merely to get a "God" label, but to show us WHO God really is...by showing us HOW God is.

Through Jesus, we can see and discover how God is *loving*. I need to learn my lesson, from how ones in church history have been conceitedly picky about who they love, who they have hope for, and how they have been about superiority and getting power and control of people. And I need to have hope for ALL people. I can see that Jesus had hope for all people > He is not conceited.

[OlderWaterBrother]

So, why didn't Jesus just directly say, "I am God"? Mainly because he's not God.