2012

[Cryptoman]

The Mayans

The Maya mysteriously appeared out of the mist some 4,000 years ago. To this day, no one knows where those ancient people came from. Nor do we know where they suddenly disappeared to around 800 A.D. Nevertheless, their artifacts tell us in no uncertain terms that they were master astronomers with an intimate knowledge of the heavens. And they were obsessed with recording cycles of cosmic time.

The Maya described five different ages that existed in the distant past, each lasting some 5,125 years. They have also told us that each of those ages ended in physical cataclysm. Then, with the start of each new era, the evolution of mankind would begin again from the seeds of the survivors left behind.

According to the Maya, the fifth and final age began approximately 5,125 years ago. As far as we can tell, the flow of calendric time through the previous ages continued uninterrupted from cleansing to cleansing. One has to wonder why their calendar, constructed more than two thousand years ago, mysteriously ended with the fifth age at "zero point," on the winter solstice of 2012




The Hopis

The Hopi, whose name means "people of peace," have sacred traditions that go back thousands of years. Their time-honored teachings point to certain prophecies that would manifest just before a great purification takes place on planet Earth. It would be a time when the world would shudder and tremble causing much destruction, in order to cleanse the planet of the karmic negativity we have created while serving as its caretakers. Not too long ago, the Hopis have said that those prophecies have now completed. It appears that the time for purification is upon us, as we approach 2012.

Here are some of the signs heralding the coming purification telling us that it is near...

Trees everywhere will be dying (it's going on right now).

People will build a house a throw it in the sky (Skylab, Mir, the current space station)

Cold places will become hot and hot places cold (that is happening with global warming, global weather patterns are changing)

Land will sink beneath the sea and rise above it (such changes have already begun)

The appearance of a blue star (in 1987 a blue star made its presence known when a hot blue super-giant exploded and made world history as a spectacular supernova)

There will be paths in the sky (airplane contrails and chemtrails)

There will be cobwebs in the air (power lines all over the United States)

A "gourd of ashes" will be dropped from the sky to burn the land and boil the oceans (atomic bomb)

These signs are pretty obvious and all have come to pass.

On the Hopi Reservation there is a picture story carved into a rock that is so sacred to them no one is allowed to photograph it. Some outside the Hopi tribe have been allowed to see it and have drawn pictures of what they remembered. That picture story is a diagram of a life plan that would guide them through this time in history. A time when there will be much turmoil and destruction. It appears that time is upon us.

The simple picture prophecy says there are two parallel paths for us to walk as we make our choices. One is a path of darkness, while the other is a path of Light. We can move freely back and forth between each one for a long time (many lives) because the Great Spirit wants us to explore and experience different ways of life. But, a moment in history will arrive when we must make a final choice between the two. That moment has arrived.


Those who choose the path of darkness in the pictograph as people whose heads hover above their bodies, while walking a path that turns into a broken zig zag that leads to nowhere. These people will experience the great purification as a time of confusion and chaos that leads to destruction. Those who have chosen a way of light have a clear strong path ahead of them as they live to advancedages.


In everything that I've read, the earth changes that are happening are a way for mother earth to cleanse herself and to bring an end to the age of materialism, and to usher in the age of aquarius. Just wanted to share my thoughts and see what you all think!


Peace and love

[whispers]

.............................I think you need to smoke more pot

[Lodui]

How does this have anything to do with the environment?

The Mayans migrated through the artic passage like all the other natives, having advanced calenders and astronomy for the period don't relate in any way to paranioid doomesday theroies.

The Mayans also sacrificed virgins to keep the sun rising the next day...

Also there is no proof that the mayans predicted the world would end in 2012... thats just when their calender cycle ended, maybe they didn't think going any further would be benificial considering how far away it was.

We're not going anywhere soon buddy.

[MaxPower]

I read the first couple of lines, and my bullshit detector immediately went haywire.

The Maya mysteriously appeared out of the mist some 4,000 years ago. To this day, no one knows where those ancient people came from.

A good guess would be that they migrated accross the landbridge (along with all other early Americans) that existed between Asia and North America about 500,000 years ago as ape-like humans and evolved from there.

Nor do we know where they suddenly disappeared to around 800 A.D.

Civil War is one idea, conquest by other Native American civilizations is another, natural disaster, disease, and a plethora of other possibilities are likely enough to have happened.

I'm not going to even bother with the rest.

[whispers]

...............i heard the mayans had severe draught, which caused waring amung micro states.


................And who the fuck wants to do the math for a calender, i mean couple thousand yars is all you need.

[GanjaPrince]

Don't forget the prophesy, when sons of white men wear long hair and beads, and the eagle lands on the moon, there will be friends to the Hopi



The hippies, the eagle, the name Nasa gave thier spaceship landing on the moon... And many of us know that hippies were one of the first white men to be involved in helping the native people of America including the Hopi as well as being involved in the evironmental movement...

So, it's pretty far out... but who knows what is possible. We certainly need a miracle.

Only when peace and love is realized in the hearts of numerous beings will the vibes and energy be powerful enough to create a healing of the earth and its people!

[paix]

anything is always possible, thank you so much for this extended legend, I had been very curious, it was so kind of you to share :)

[longhaircountryboy]

2012 aint shit bro.I heard a dude on the radio the other day(promoting a book mind you)whos got it all down.September 29th,this year there's gonna be an earthquake in Mexico.as its happening a group of kamikaze aliens are gonna slam their shit into the fault line.You got 5 days Bro.live it up!If nothin happens on the 29th,we're good,same way as if nothin happens in 2012 we're good.I dunno about you,but I'm gonnna be livin my life as I always have.If shit really does go down on that large of a scale,there's no point worrying about it.Like Jim Morrison said"the future's uncertain & the end is always near"

[Tamee]

...Interesting

[worldhealer]

The Mayan callendar is indeed a beautiful and powerful prophetic tool, that has proven its accuracy historically, and corresponds to the period of the revolution of the sun around the galactic center.

But . . . the Mayans did not disappear -- they continue to exist in Guatemala and southern Mexico. They survived a genocide in Guatemala in the 1980's. And in Chiapas today they are leading a visionary movement to reject global capitalism and rebuild a society deeply connected to the Earth.

They are however the only civilization I am aware of that voluntarily abandoned its cities and its technology . . .

[KevinSmith]

The Mayan callendar is indeed a beautiful and powerful prophetic tool, that has proven its accuracy historically, and corresponds to the period of the revolution of the sun around the galactic center.

But . . . the Mayans did not disappear -- they continue to exist in Guatemala and southern Mexico. They survived a genocide in Guatemala in the 1980's. And in Chiapas today they are leading a visionary movement to reject global capitalism and rebuild a society deeply connected to the Earth.

They are however the only civilization I am aware of that voluntarily abandoned its cities and its technology . . .Hehe, funny that you mention that, I'm in the process right now of getting a movement started. One that will, hopefully, start things new again. So that we, entities in human form, can begin to learn who we truly are and what is most important in life. Although, I had already began planning for this before knowing anything of the Mayan culture.

If you're interested, take a look at the link in my signature. The more people we have with us, the better. =)

[RELAYER]

some people in india have the same belief, i think its called Kaliyuga? there already is a movement started on that in america by people who have gone and claim to have seen a living incarnation in india somewhere. i know some people who have seen these people speak in houses and apartments and they say its the real deal. personally i think its a waste of time but to each his own.

[Tamee]

did they abandon their calendear?

[RELAYER]

i wouldnt know, i never asked.

[Cryptoman]

The cycles in India coincide with the Mayan calandar, as do many other prophecies. As to how this relates to the environment...I guess my thoughts were running along the lines of a theory that I read about. These cycles are occurring and have been supported scientifically to a degree. The Native American prophecies speak of abandoning the technologies that are destructive and returning to Mother Earth, from whom we have separated ourselves. Most Native Americans, past and present, have viewed the earth as a living entity. Through our extensive abuse of our environment, we can, and have contributed to the need that the earth has for cleansing it's self . 2012 isn't an end date for the earth (It isn't a date set in stone either. There are factors that could delay it, such as responsible stewardship of the planet. But we all know it's too late for that), it's a begin again date and those of us who are prepared to move forward and embrace the earth, nature, and natural living should have few problems. The trouble begins when weather patterns change drastically, such as global warming, record high and low temperatures that threaten agri-business, flooding, quakes, etc... that disrupt our market based economy. When the earth changes begin you may not be able to run to the store to get your bottled water...or food for that matter. Take the tsunami for example, there were thousands devastated by the aftermath of the tsunami. There was no water to drink, food distribution was slow and disorganized, and people suffered and died in the aftermath. The earth was changed by this disaster, and people weren't ready for it. There have been several other underwater quakes in the region, and there is a lot of attention focused there. Have you ever wondered what would happen if something like that happened of the coast of California? The probability was higher for a quake to occur along that fault line. What if two, three, or even four quakes of that magnitude happened at the same time, or even within days of one another. Who would respond, and how, when our resources were taxed dealing with the one that did happen.

I'm not a doomsday theorist. I originally just wanted for people that were familiar with the prophecies to share their thoughts. I do believe in the earth changes, and in the Mayan's (and other's) ability to predict, through cycles, an approximate time for the next one to occur. Geologists have said repeatedly that we have been in a lull, or very calm period, in geologic history. The calm period is ending and other than a magnetic pole shift, ice shelves dropping into the ocean, and increased severity in weather patterns, we don't know what to expect.

In all fairness, the prophecy that inspired this post was the prophecy of the rainbow warriors that will lead our people into this new age. Anyone familiar with it?

[Casperthesheet]

The way I see it...well, The living entity known to us as Earth will just become fed up with what "we" are doing to it. It's already starting and if "we" don't like it...then maybe "we" should fuck off and create our own planet.

[KevinSmith]

Cryptoman, it's sad, but you are dead on, especially with what's getting ready to happen in America. It's going to be VERY difficult for people in the next 7 years, especially those who are still clinging to a culture that is killing itself. It is grim, but those who refuse to change, will die off. Evolution is among us, we are the next big leap in human history.

We must prepare, much like the animals saw the Asian tsunami coming and ran for safety, I see more coming for the human race in the years to come. 2005, 2006, 2010 and 2012 will be significant dates to remember, mark my words. ;)

I'm not conciously familiar with the prophecies handed down by the native americans, mayans or rainbow warriors, though I'm very interested now that I'm aware of it. :)

Love & Peace Be With You All ^_^

[TomDijon]

"And who the fuck wants to do the math for a calender, i mean couple thousand yars is all you need."
then why did they chronicle WAY more then a couple thousand years BEFORE them?

"The Mayans migrated through the artic passage like all the other natives"
then you think it's just a coincidence that they had pyramids, mummies, and very similar cultures in other ways to the eqyptians?

"They are however the only civilization I am aware of that voluntarily abandoned its cities and its technology . . ."
hmmmm... i wonder why?

the whole thing is very interesting, and i'd definitely like to learn more about their prophecy and all related to it. i'm not sure if it has anything to do with that, but have you heard of the indigo souls arising? and then the crystal ones? the new agers have a belief that their children are supposed to have rainbow souls... interesting...

[kayy]

So you believe in prophecies? well, there is a force in the universe that has the ability to turn dreams/fiction/tales/wishes into reality, sa that we, common people have a FATE.... I have decided long ago that i want to detangle myself from this fabricated web... Ok, I beleive in karma, sure, but, in every second there is a new choice to be made.... Don't give up your freedom.

[Cryptoman]

Prophecies are visions that people have of probable future events. There is no prophecy that is set in stone. Every second there is a new choice to be made that could affect this "foreseen future event" The events that the Mayans, Incans, Hopi, Navajo, Cree, and Iroquois have foretold have been very accurate to this point. These prophecies have all pointed to drastic environmental changes on a global scale. All that I'm saying is that (given supporting geological evidence) we should concede that these events may come to pass. Am I 100% certain that they will? No, but i'm not going to continue a lifestyle that contributes to the degradation of the environment either. I started making these changes because I saw a threat. Now that I've been living this way for awhile, I feel closer to the earth and nature. I feel like my soul is healing...that's the only way to describe it. One more thing...I think some people are gifted with these visions so that they can help us avoid danger. Sometimes enough people listen and change the way they're doing something so the danger is avoided. Sometimes everyone closes their eyes calls the prophet "a nut" and continues along not wanting to see the danger. In this case the environmental laws that have been in place were too weak to begin with. Now with the Bush administration, they are being pushed totally to the side to make way for new capitalist ventures. We have our eyes closed and were walking into a busy intersection.

[RELAYER]

from what i've heard though is that according to the Kali Yuga, there will be a massive shift in conciousness and awareness of spiritual shit and a mass enlightenment or some stuff, not necessarily a mass destruction or devastation.

[SoundStepper]

Well i visited the grand canyon this year, and it was amazing seeing such a sight, but finding out the ones who used to live off that land was just awesome, and the group Hopi used to live around the area.

I view the indians as beatiful people, and the true children of Mother Nature, and they are so connected to her in ways that we can't even begin to understand or even try to master. They have such strong views and strong souls, that the typical person will spend a lifetime struggling to have.

I don't know if i could live my life like they do, But i hold highest respect for them.

[WHorseTurtle]

Too bad no one here knows about ascension...sigh...

Blessings
Francine

[Cryptoman]

"there will be a massive shift in consciousness and awareness of spiritual shit and a mass enlightenment or some stuff, not necessarily a mass destruction or devastation."

Yeah, a mass enlightenment is supposed to occur, but your mind has to be open to it. If you're totally immersed in the reality of what this world has become, the chances that you will be able to make the shift into a new reality are slim. For example the Ghandis of the world have much better chances than the Hitlers and George Bushs.
The shift in consciousness is happening already, but not everyone is being elevated. There is a rift or division of sorts. Some people are more and more inclined to strongly support war and greed and cling to the old ways, and some are moving more toward love and peace. the middle ground is getting wider and wider and people will have to choose.
The awakening begins with the acceptance of love and accepting that we are all connected. An individual is enslaved by the ego. a mass consciousness is free of it.

Still, this doesn't negate the prophecies of earth changes. These are two aspects of the same topic. The energies that are coming into sequence are of a mathmatical, and astrological nature. The cycle cleanses the physical earth, and elevates those who are in line spiritually. those that aren't inline will have a much harder time with the change. well, I know it was short, but I gotta go for now.
Peace

[Nathan11]

Too many people claim to believe in 2012 when they don't know the truth behind the prophocies. (sp)

[TomDijon]

so tell us what the truth of them is if YOU do know... and i believe that there will be great devestation to all the people still in the old world, the old lifestyle (old to our "new") but for everyone else, well, we can already feel the magic rising... it's just too bad that many people will be caught in the middle, i fear myself to be one of them.
but until then, i will continue to aim for higher learning, and try and open some more eyes along the way... but it's true, we are destined to manifest our destinies!

[Tamee]

Too bad no one here knows about ascension...sigh..Ok, explain ascension., please.Too many people claim to believe in 2012 when they don't know the truth behind the prophocies. (sp)what truth?

[RELAYER]

why even bother? we are in the darkest of ages. remember?

[BlackGuardXIII]

from what i've heard though is that according to the Kali Yuga, there will be a massive shift in conciousness and awareness of spiritual shit and a mass enlightenment or some stuff, not necessarily a mass destruction or devastation.A Hindu friend of mine told me that at the end of this Yuga, the slate is wiped clean, and virtually our entire reality is erased, and then we very quickly afterwards start back at the top of the cycle, in the highest yuga, the golden age.

[WHorseTurtle]

Well, ascension is complicated and could never be explained within one paragraph. Well, maybe by people who have a great working of the langauge :) but I suggest if you feel called from within, check out www.ascendpress.org and if not, don't bother because you'll read a sentence of it, think it's crap, not worthwhile or start stripping every little detail apart.....

Blessings :)
Francine

[Tamee]

A Hindu friend of mine told me that at the end of this Yuga, the slate is wiped clean, and virtually our entire reality is erased, and then we very quickly afterwards start back at the top of the cycle, in the highest yuga, the golden age.
yeah I can feel that.

[Chodpa]

All kidding aside, I truely wish a new age of compassion and exploration and sharing to all. Let's hope that humankind awakens to its potential during the next thousand years instead of merely remaining an ostridge world in the dark ages.

[Tamee]

stop hoping and "become the change you wish to see in the world"

[Xentharthethird]

There are always going to be people who predict the end of the world.. Nostrodamus gives us about a thousand years before Judgement Day.
While I've always approached the Mayan's prediction of 2012 with doubt, we are at a time where warfare seems to be the fad. With the explosives and technology we have now we could it end the world now.. and with all of our stubborn confidence, it almost seems inevitable.

Anyhow, opinions are opinions, so I'm not passing judgement on anyone here. I'm just saying that I will continue with my life no matter what peril the future holds for me.

[Kharakov]

stop hoping and "become the change you wish to see in the world" Or at least be bitter and disturbed by the world. That's what it's there for.

[5thshuriken]

Thank you very much for the info. Alot links into to this beyond what you have already mentioned. There is scientific evidence to prove the significant changes on planet earth and 4 other planets in our solar system. In 2012 the next polar reversal will take place on earth, the poles are already shifting. It is already so significant that aeronautical maps used by pilots have had to be revised. Also from the Russian National Academy of Science reveals that our solar system has moved into a "different area of space" with higher and more aberrant energy levels than prevoiusly noted. the suns heliosphere is now 10 times its normal size, creating a glowing, excited plasmic energy field at its leading edge. The governmental and scientific communities are well aware of all this, but are at a total loss of what to do over the destruction it will cause.

Furthermore I heard a few years back that there was supposedly a 10th comet-like planet in our solar system, that many thought was pure non-sense. This comet planet is recorded in the ancient Sumerian tablets, and as of Feb 2004, NASA announced that this 10th planet/Planet X is real. The ancients refer to this comet planet as Nibiru, NASA have named it Sedna (there is debate over its identification and statistics though), which is believed to orbit the sun every 3600 years, and it will pass at its nearest point to earth which is very close in 2012 which would have a massive gravitational pull on earth. Theres so much detail behind this comet planet but I will keep myself from rambling on...

argh...im too lazy to write any more...so there! whatever your thoughts on 2012, something will happen im sure.

[revolution_time]

well, A)the mayans didn't spring from no where. their was a civilization known as the olmecs which appeared before them, though they weren't as technologically advanced. B) they didn't sacrifice virgins, the king would take his own blood, everday, and give it to the sun god, so he would be strong enough to defeat his brother darkness and rise again the next day. Now then, as far as the world coming to an end, i could see something like that coming. the aztecs beleived this age would end in fire, kind of sounds like a mass nuclear war. but, i could also see a mass spiritual movement. the prophecy doesn't say the world will end. it simply says it is the end of an era. i could try to give you the short and sweet version of everything, but that would take several pages in and of itself. i suggest you read "fingerprints of the gods". it's an incrediable book. and no, it isn't about a bunch of prophecy bullshit. the author is on a search for an incrediably advanced, ancient race. he doesn't make one opinion stronger or weaker, but presents you with evidence. my own thoughts however, really have led me to beleive that the majority of human beings are completly lost. we are so ingrained in our physical world, we have lost a whole other side to ourselves. we are spiritual beings too. we are so short-sighted, that we are destroying the earth itself, the womb of life. try staying alive without the earth. now then, i don't go around "preparing" for 2012. i mean, what will happen, will happen, and theres no use getting all scared about it. it won't change anything. if 2012 passes with no change, then i can think, "ok, well, guess the mayans were wrong" and that would be that.

[Soberbeah]

Terence McKenna writes in Archaic Revival about the end of the Mayan calender and the end of civilization as we know it, but his ideas are based on shamanism and going back to our ancient civilization of being within nature rather than trying to work around it

[italianhippie750]

Were All Gonna Die!! Aaaaaaaaaah Ahhhhh Ahahhhaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! Ohhhhhh God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!

2012!
2012!
2012!
2012!
2012!

Nooooooooooooooooo!

[BeaverKoffi]

eh... it scares people... and if we have no chance to go around this problem... then let it be.... we still each one of you have chance to get rich, build storng house, to withstand this cataclism, and live happily ever after:)

[TomDijon]

listen

[donHeraldo]

If this topic interests you, I suggest that you read Carl Johan Calleman's breakthrough book, The Mayan Calendar And The Transformation Of Consciousness. Your local library probably has a copy if you don't want to spring for the paperback.

You can also check out Calleman's website, which has lots of very interesting info:
http://www.calleman.com/

[flat buddha]

I dont know much about their calender but i do know a few things about them.
they where phenomenal astrologers, they predicted ecplipses where and what time they would appear on the earth thousands of years in advance, with only a few seconds off.
now i believe where they get 2012 from is this. earth will lose its magnatism and the polarities will switch places, north becomming south and south becomming north. i herd this from a couple of sources, one of which was discovery cosmos, you may have herd of it.
but, they say that the earth is on a 26,000 year cycle which may be comming to an end in 2012, now this was on discovery cosmos that science channel so im not just shooting stuff out of my ass. but i have head it at other sources aswell. i am not saying iits 100% true, but there is some evidence twords it.
not saying it has anyhting to do with religion, but some major changes would take place. I mean come on poles changing places...
those scientist said that the earth would stop rotation for 3 days and return in the opposite direction.
every planet is on a cycle so im sure you have herd.
even the sun, it is on a 11 year cylce from what this show said.
but what i am saying is this, the mayans couldnt have had it all wrong.
maybe some shit will go down in 2012...

[amihathos]

I basically see the Mayan prophetic calendar as a schedule for our collective spiritual evolution. 2012=graduation?

More and more, people are beginning to realize that all consciousness is connected and through its connection and self-interaction, reality is manifest.

WE ARE GOD :)

[Strawberry_Fields_Fo]

I dont know much about their calender but i do know a few things about them.
they where phenomenal astrologers, they predicted ecplipses where and what time they would appear on the earth thousands of years in advance, with only a few seconds off.
now i believe where they get 2012 from is this. earth will lose its magnatism and the polarities will switch places, north becomming south and south becomming north. i herd this from a couple of sources, one of which was discovery cosmos, you may have herd of it.
but, they say that the earth is on a 26,000 year cycle which may be comming to an end in 2012, now this was on discovery cosmos that science channel so im not just shooting stuff out of my ass. but i have head it at other sources aswell. i am not saying iits 100% true, but there is some evidence twords it.
not saying it has anyhting to do with religion, but some major changes would take place. I mean come on poles changing places...
those scientist said that the earth would stop rotation for 3 days and return in the opposite direction.
every planet is on a cycle so im sure you have herd.
even the sun, it is on a 11 year cylce from what this show said.
but what i am saying is this, the mayans couldnt have had it all wrong.
maybe some shit will go down in 2012...This is impossible--the force of gravity (which keeps the earth spinning) would have to completely stop and then start again. What would prompt this? Even if it did happen, life on earth would cease completely. Every man, woman, child, dog, cockroach, tree, and elephant would go flying off into space, our atmosphere would vaporize, and the earth would cease being spherical (sp?), and thus wouldn't even be a planet anymore but essentially a popped zit oozing out into the universe.

I don't doubt that planets and stars are on cycles, but this does not mean that they demonstrate an end in that cycle by ceasing to rotate. If the earth supposedly stops spinning every 26,000 years, why is there no evidence of it happening 26,000 years ago?

And btw, if your wondering where I'm getting all this information, my father is an astrophysicist (oh, and I believe you meant that the myans were great astroNOMERS, not astroLOGERS)

-Kate

[Enlil6]

This is impossible--the force of gravity (which keeps the earth spinning) would have to completely stop and then start again. What would prompt this? Even if it did happen, life on earth would cease completely. Every man, woman, child, dog, cockroach, tree, and elephant would go flying off into space, our atmosphere would vaporize, and the earth would cease being spherical (sp?), and thus wouldn't even be a planet anymore but essentially a popped zit oozing out into the universe.

I don't doubt that planets and stars are on cycles, but this does not mean that they demonstrate an end in that cycle by ceasing to rotate. If the earth supposedly stops spinning every 26,000 years, why is there no evidence of it happening 26,000 years ago?

And btw, if your wondering where I'm getting all this information, my father is an astrophysicist (oh, and I believe you meant that the myans were great astroNOMERS, not astroLOGERS)

-Kate
I agree with you about the Earth stopping its rotation. However...

I'm not getting all froo-froo here, but many modern people immediately dismiss ancient science as superstition.

I recommend that you pick up "Ancient Astrology" by Tamsyn Barton. This is actually part of a series on the history of science and very good.

Anyway science as we know it is purely a modern invention. What makes modern science distinctive is the method. This is not to say that ancient "science" is inherently superstitious either. Sometimes it was. But, many other times they were almost on track of not entirely. Yes the logic was different, and yes they didn't usually use the exact same method of testing and repeatablity.

Remember that the word "science" is from the Latin "sciencia" meaning "knowledge". In the ancient world, ALL pursuits of knowledge were called science. This means philosophy was a science, astrology, alchemy, the study of plants and animals, and history. Ancient science was based on observation and was anecdotal as opposed to our system. This does not mean they were always wrong or superstitious.

Before the 17th or 18th century, astrology was called astronomy. Good asrologers were actually pretty knowledgeable. Gallileo did not invent the idea of a solar-centric universe. In the classical period there was a general movement towards more critical thinking, and Christianity destroyed it, so we went backwards. Gallileo heard about his theory from Classical texts. The Greeks (actually a Greek-Egyptian) figured out pretty closely the actual size of the Earth. They also knew the Earth was round.

The Mayans definitely used astrology, BUT they also were masterful astronomers that would not be seen in the west (at least by Europeans) for a while.

People tend to criticize the logic more than the results. If an ancient person believed that a planet had divine attributes, BUT at the same time figured out the correct orbit, then is he inherently wrong?

[themnax]

why even bother? we are in the darkest of ages. remember?

are we? i think we are on the cusp of deciding whether to grow up as a species or commit collective suicide.

but i don't think 2012, or any other arbitrary number has a whole lot do do with it.

the real bottem line of humanities future is whether, by continuing to use combustion to generate energy and propell transportation we screw our species into an early extinction, or by adopting proven, reliable, already existing noncombustive tecnologies to provide as much as we really need of this things, avert thus collectively screwing ourselvs.

(solar has been proven for decades, hydro for centuries, and wind for millinea)

doesn't have much to do with gods or beliefs or idiologies, or even predictions, other then the incentives being created to do just exactly the opposite from what we need to in order to save ourselves.

=^^=
.../\...

[Strawberry_Fields_Fo]

Enlil--I didn't mean to convey that the Mayans knew nothing. I'm well aware of their amazing contributions to modern astronomy/astrology (wasn't aware about the name change, thanks for the info). I just felt that the other poster was inserting alot of seprate claims and conjoining them with the Mayans, which is what I raised question with. :)

[snakeyes]

nothing weird is gonna happen in 2012. throughout history people have been waiting for physical signs to vindicate their spiritual convictions and that means they haven't really got a clue about it. Connection to the universal consciousness, which is the ultimate reality, transcends time and space (the physical universe) which is illusion. The nature of our true being is infinite and eternal. We are not approaching global awareness. For every hippy who thinks he's sussed it out, there are 1000 other people born into ignorance who will never even give the big questions a second thought. Don't wait til 2012. The truth is all around us right now. Transformation can happen anytime. It's a matter of perception. - sorry, that's just my take on it.

[Hope_B]

i think it's realy crippy !! but it's not right 4 sure ..i beleive that the end of the world is near but i mean by that 500-1000 years ..there're many clues beside the Mayans that says the end of the world is very close ..but every1 of them have a diffrent date ..so which 1 we have 2 believe !!!?

[youngexperimenter]

pretty interesting there...but who knows what will happen and when our human race will begin again....noone knows. noone is meant to know. we are meant to live our lives and enjoy ourselves to the best of our ability. take care everyone. it does not matter whether the end is near or not if you have had a fufilling life thus far. and if 2012 is when it should end for us, i embrace it and hope the future men take better care of our Mother Earth than we did.

[ExpansiveThought]

the end of the ages in the mayan calender occurs when the sun crosses the center axis of the milky way galaxy every however many years, if this wasnt gonna happend on 12/12/12 the theory would be have been long debunked. As far as i know tho, it doesnt mean the end of the world, just the end of an age, and teh end of the mayan calendar. In any case, guess well just have to wait and see.