hate speech

[Okiefreak]

Is it me, or has the general Christian forum become an outlet for hate speech? Recently, we've been treated to such pleasant sentiments as Pixiewinged's statement that it is good children were denied medical assistance and died, since there would be fewer Christians in the world. And Stev90's opinion that Hitler should have added Christians to his hit list. And FedUp Ameican's thread portraying Christianity as mental illness, "the True Mind Virus". And the latest artwork of Stev90, posted recently on the Christian forum:
"You silly Christians should instead use the asshole as the symbol of your
silly religion, instead of the cross, which is too violent and graphic.

The asshole symbol contains the cross, by the way.
"Seek and ye shall find." LOL. :jester:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7994/asshole9pz.th.jpg
Or my very favorite:
HeeeHeee!!! :jester:

Okie-dokie, hokey-pokey, nookie-nookie,

I commend you for making yourself a fine example of the Christian asshole. :talk2hand


Put down your Bible and use your brain for a change.


Admittedly, the last one came from another site on Hip Forums than the Christian forum, but the point is the same. If these sentiments were directed against Jews, African-Americans, Native Americans, women, Buddhists, Hindus, pagans or atheists, would anyone have trouble identifying them as virulent hate speech? (the "Fuck Allah" thread on the Islam Forum comes close, but is not nearly as often directed at the believers themselves). These aren't isolated abberations. There's been a steady daily barrage of this stuff on multiple threads, and it derails any serious discussion of issues. I suppose we can console ourselves that we can retreat into our Sanctuary and be protected there from these assaults, but the fact that this slander is allowed to continue doesn't speak well for Hip Forums or its site administrators. If Christians said similar things about non-Christians, they'd be banned. They have been, for much less. At minimum, I think the "Christian" forum should be renamed the "Anti-Christian" forum to give a more accurate description of what it's become.

[Hryhorii]

I do agree. I do think that critical thought is important, but these comments are off topic and personal attacks (key word: your).

That being said, I do think this should be brought to the attention of Skip. Not that we nessecarily need these guys banned (fedup has been twice in the past), but perhaps some closer moderation by the admins...

[Okiefreak]

I do agree. I do think that critical thought is important, but these comments are off topic and personal attacks (key word: your).

That being said, I do think this should be brought to the attention of Skip. Not that we nessecarily need these guys banned (fedup has been twice in the past), but perhaps some closer moderation by the admins...I don't want to get them banned either, but I do want them to clean up their act. Hate kills.

[Portalguy]

Wow that was quick. I posted something here and it got deleted already. New record. Anyway Okie what I wrote was the regular Christian forums have always pretty much been like that. But we have the Sanctuary here. Also, we love our enemies so we deal with it to a degree.

Now I'm FAR from being against a lively debate mind you. By the way...If whoever deleted my original post would look back at the Christian forum randomly for the last few years. I'm sure my statement is supported by STRONG evidence. I'm guessing that's why I was deleted.

[Okiefreak]

Wow that was quick. I posted something here and it got deleted already. New record. Anyway Okie what I wrote was the regular Christian forums have always pretty much been like that. But we have the Sanctuary here. Also, we love our enemies so we deal with it to a degree.

Now I'm FAR from being against a lively debate mind you. By the way...If whoever deleted my original post would look back at the Christian forum randomly for the last few years. I'm sure my statement is supported by STRONG evidence. I'm guessing that's why I was deleted.What was it? Or would that get you banned?

[neodude1212]

I do agree. I do think that critical thought is important, but these comments are off topic and personal attacks (key word: your).

That being said, I do think this should be brought to the attention of Skip. Not that we nessecarily need these guys banned (fedup has been twice in the past), but perhaps some closer moderation by the admins...
I've already tried with skip.

He doesn't seem to be particularly worried about it, and was content to just say that the Christianity forum is for the discussion of christianity, by believers and non-believes alike.

I think it would be more effective if more than one person brought this to his concern though.

[neodude1212]

Is it me, or has the general Christian forum become an outlet for hate speech? Recently, we've been treated to such pleasant sentiments as Pixiewinged's statement that it is good children were denied medical assistance and died, since there would be fewer Christians in the world. And Stev90's opinion that Hitler should have added Christians to his hit list. And FedUp Ameican's thread portraying Christianity as mental illness, "the True Mind Virus". And the latest artwork of Stev90, posted recently on the Christian forum:
"You silly Christians should instead use the asshole as the symbol of your
silly religion, instead of the cross, which is too violent and graphic.

The asshole symbol contains the cross, by the way.
"Seek and ye shall find." LOL. :jester:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7994/asshole9pz.th.jpg
Or my very favorite:
HeeeHeee!!! :jester:

Okie-dokie, hokey-pokey, nookie-nookie,

I commend you for making yourself a fine example of the Christian asshole. :talk2hand


Put down your Bible and use your brain for a change.


Admittedly, the last one came from another site on Hip Forums than the Christian forum, but the point is the same. If these sentiments were directed against Jews, African-Americans, Native Americans, women, Buddhists, Hindus, pagans or atheists, would anyone have trouble identifying them as virulent hate speech? (the "Fuck Allah" thread on the Islam Forum comes close, but is not nearly as often directed at the believers themselves). These aren't isolated abberations. There's been a steady daily barrage of this stuff on multiple threads, and it derails any serious discussion of issues. I suppose we can console ourselves that we can retreat into our Sanctuary and be protected there from these assaults, but the fact that this slander is allowed to continue doesn't speak well for Hip Forums or its site administrators. If Christians said similar things about non-Christians, they'd be banned. They have been, for much less. At minimum, I think the "Christian" forum should be renamed the "Anti-Christian" forum to give a more accurate description of what it's become.

and the meek shall inherit the earth.

personally, I find all the hate to be more compelling evidence of how Christianity is truly a beacon for salvation and self-realization.

[SpreadneckGA]

I find all the hate to be more compelling evidence of how Christianity is truly a beacon for salvation and self-realization.I find it funny the answer so many people to have to what the see as the problems with Christianity they can combat with hate. Ironic none the less.

I've already tried with skip.

He doesn't seem to be particularly worried about it, and was content to just say that the Christianity forum is for the discussion of christianity, by believers and non-believes alike.The site is set up for free speach as long as you follow a certian train of thought,mainly against an establishment. It doesn't personally bother me but noone can deny that certian groups of people on here get far less slack with personal attacks than the above mentioned in this thread.

[Hryhorii]

I think it is funny that at the end of the Forum Guidelines it calls for everyone to be civil about the free speech.

I wonder if Christians in the general sense fit into the catergory of a group of people on this site.

[Portalguy]

Well, at the very least we have Sanctuary. Which I think is cool. Except for Occam invading it. Which peed me off a tad.

[neodude1212]

I think it is funny that at the end of the Forum Guidelines it calls for everyone to be civil about the free speech.

I wonder if Christians in the general sense fit into the catergory of a group of people on this site.

You think it's bad here?

Try going to the politics section and having conservative views. You will be lucky if you aren't lynched.

[SpreadneckGA]

Try going to the politics section and having conservative views. You will be lucky if you aren't lynched.or banned.

I lean more towards libertarian views on most issues and i have been called a "neocon" and well beyond more times than i can count. I have been told about how i like to have sexual relations with my family and all kinds of interesting things.

On the other side, if i or anyone else came in with personal attacks against those people, aside from dropping to that level, i would be banned within a week. I have seen it happen many times.

It is actually pretty comical.

[neodude1212]

or banned.

I lean more towards libertarian views on most issues and i have been called a "neocon" and well beyond more times than i can count. I have been told about how i like to have sexual relations with my family and all kinds of interesting things.

On this website?

Actually I have no clue as to why Im suprised nevermind.

I tend to have more conservative views, so Im the subject of hate for all the "free-love hippes".

I didn't know you could be for love yet absolutely hate people at the same time. I always get the "You must be a backwoods stupid redneck" treatment.
God, people are so stupid.

[SpreadneckGA]

In my view it is not at all different then the way many portray ALL Christians as thinking along the "i am right and you are wrong and are going to hell" attitude. I do not like people that think that way, be it something believe in or not. I do not think my way of thinking is the sole right way but i rarely is ever call someone names or anything because we have different views.

It just shows the utter hypocrisy that exists in every group of people, be it a religious group, an establishment, or an anti-establishment, which is nothing more than an counter establishment in it's self. The same things have corrupted the first 2 groups as has the last group. Anytime there is power involved, there is bound to be people who abuse it or use it for their own reasons. There have been Christians throughout history who have done very bad things, but there have been people from all walks and groups who have done very bad things. You can't judge a group based on that nor hold people accountable for the actions of others.

I hate to see people judge an entire group based on the action of the corrupt.

[Okiefreak]

Setting the record straight On a previous thread, Stev90 called me a liar for stating that he had made an accusation against another member. I was challenged to back up that statement. By the time I got back with the evidence, the thread was closed, which was entirely appropriate, given the fact that it had gotten completely off the track and degenerated into personal attacks. However, I think I have a right to respond to an accusation of being a liar. The following was posted by Stev90 at http://hipforums.com/forums/showthr...7&page=10&pp=10 (http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php/t=281227&page=10&pp=10) : (apparently this is a bad link for some reason, but check out thread #96 in the Philosophy & Religion threads--the one started by naomi08, mar. 29, 2008--10th page.

"The John Jay Report (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jay_Report), commissioned by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops found accusations against 4,392 priests in the USA, equalling about 4% of all U.S. priests between 1950 and 2002.


So, Maitreya, in your role as the "future Buddha", have you been abusing little Buddhist boys yourself?"

I have no desire to reopen the offensive thread with another round of personal attacks, but I thought it necessary to reply to that one since my honesty and that of Christians in general was called into question. It seems to me that my original statement was a fair characterization of his post. I've decided to have no further communication with either Stev90 or FedUp American, since calling me a liar is a big deal to me. If the tone of the Christian Forum doesn't pick up, I'll have no further contact with that, as well.

[Portalguy]

Okie, I understand your frustration. That being said it's hard to separate your person from the debate (TRUST ME I KNOW) but it makes it easier when you can do so. Pray for them. It seems like that gets to some people like nothing else. LOL

[SelfControl]

See, I'm not a Christian, but those dorks in the main forum make me wish I wasn't an atheist. I hope people realise that we're not all like that; some of us are able to respect faiths/beliefs that aren't our own.

[Okiefreak]

See, I'm not a Christian, but those dorks in the main forum make me wish I wasn't an atheist. I hope people realise that we're not all like that; some of us are able to respect faiths/beliefs that aren't our own.I sure do. Thank you. I do, and I'm really grateful for your help. I hope you carry on the good fight for fairness on the main forum. I've had it! For Christians to continue in the face of this blatant unfairness makes us accomplices in our own persecution.(and please don't anybody bring up the rule that only Christians can post here!)

[SelfControl]

I was amazed that they actually ban Bible quoting. How did that happen? You have a forum about a religion based on a book - and yet you're not allowed to reference that book! Whereas those who attack the religion can, presumably, cite any source they like, can't be called up on their ignorance of the religion, etc. ... It beggars belief.

[SpreadneckGA]

I wouldn't let it bother me okie. While i do enjoy reading some of the more absurd things i have seen here, i don't post too much, i honestly feel it isn't worth my time.

It is all pretty classic and run of the mill tactics. Do not address the message, slay the messenger. They have as much if not more faith that god doesnt exist than you or i do that god does. In an open free forum, they would not be able to suppress what you can and cant say because they can not moderate real life, so people have places like this to discuss what they please, and i have no problem with that. i enjoy seeing all points of view, even ones i find hilarious or disagree with. They are free to think and believe as they wish. While i don't agree with all of the names and personal attacks i have seen here, it only shows me the true substance of the people you are dealing with.

It seems people are taking their frustrations out on a select few because of their disdain for a belief or movement. I personally have never pushed anything on anyone but have been labeled and called all kinds of things here.

I would post the sanctuary more and the general Christian forum less if you don't want to deal with it. While i love the exchange of ideas, it has been proven to me the general Christian forum is not the area for it. Don't answer baited questions.

The people you are arguing with represent a VERY SMALL FRINGE and most of the world doesn't take them seriously outside of here, so why should you or i? Why do you think some are so vocal here?

[Hryhorii]

Ever wonder why some people take such an stance against religion? Could it be that they didn't like their parents forcing them to church on beautiful sunday mornings?

The "no quotations" rule came from a desire to stop forum spamming. I've used quotations and have not been penalized, but when your only form of argument is:
AND THE LORD SAYITH, "Thou art wrong when it comes to philosophical debates"
Then I can see the benefit in limiting quotations.

[SelfControl]

Ever wonder why some people take such an stance against religion? Could it be that they didn't like their parents forcing them to church on beautiful sunday mornings?

The "no quotations" rule came from a desire to stop forum spamming. I've used quotations and have not been penalized, but when your only form of argument is:

Then I can see the benefit in limiting quotations.


Yeah, but on the flipside, you've got plenty of people whose only form of argument is:

YEAH BUT IF U BELIEVE IN GOD U R MENTALLY ILL WHO TEH FUCK WOULD BELIEVE IN GOD ONLY IDIOTS BOLOLOLOLOL

and they're largely getting off scot free. At least when someone quotes scripture - or any other text - you've got some kind of foothold to discuss, knowing that they at least take the subject at hand seriously enough to read about it. Yes, it is annoying when someone refuses to argue anything outside the Bible, but tbh there's usually a Bible quote you can use right back at them. My great-grandmother was apparently something of a scourge of the Jehovah's Witnesses, as a woman who'd read the Bible from cover to cover more times than she could probably remember by the end. She'd have them begging her to leave them alone!

[Okiefreak]

I have the feeling that several of the posters aren't operating in good faith. They aren't trying to put forward reasoned arguments. They're out to bash Christians. One in particular uses a standard series of ploys amounting to "heads I win, tales you lose". He may be using the Forums to perfect arguments for a public forum in which he's become invloved. It's a chapter out of "Games People Play", and it is constantly being recycled. If anyone calls him on it, the standard move is to accuse them of crying or whining. There's also the patronizing move: Sonny, we wiser elders are only doing this for your own good. (I think the Inquisitors used a variant of that one, too). Another favorite is simply to deny ever having said something that was said, and if all else fails, to play the "rules" card. The double standard is obvious, but what can you do? I've decided to try not to play.

[SelfControl]

Yeah, kind of a side issue, but it's amazing how douchey some of the older posters are on HipForums. I guess they only ever said "with age comes experience"; no-one ever said you'd learn, grow or become a better person from that experience.

[SpreadneckGA]

Its pretty simple. Bait you in with a loaded question. Bash the poster instead of addressing the message. Classic tactics used by many in the media.

You can have a valid list of arguments a mile long, so to counter, they will try to make you look foolish or attack yours or a groups character.

Don't worry, like i stated, it is an EXTREME FRINGE you are dealing with.

[SelfControl]

So yeah, shock revelation: FedUpAmerican is an actual moderator! How the fuck does something like that happen? Basically this means he can spam the forum with impunity and people don't even have the option to put him on Ignore.

Seriously, it's a really fucking sad state of affairs when you have to have a separate subforum to the Christian forum specifically set up so that people can discuss the religion, rather than worship that arrogant retard's ego 24/7 or leave.

It makes me angry that so many seem to measure rationality purely on religion or lack of. These assholes do everything they accuse your religion of doing, and very often it's stuff the religion hasn't done for decades, centuries... it beggars belief, seriously.

[SpreadneckGA]

If someone was really concerned about Christianity and thought strongly against it, they wouldnt spout their views on a vastly anti christian website. Take some of these people for what they are, i wouldn't let it bother me at all.

[SelfControl]

Yeah, I'm still kind of keen to get him de-modded though. The situation here really is pathetic; Christians are bearing the brunt of all the anti-religious - rather than just anti-Christian - sentiment from people who are absolved of any expectation to know anything about the religion they're slating by this insane rule about Bible quoting. I mean, that's bad enough, but then you have an utter moron spamming the place and you can't stick him on Ignore. Pretty much any thread the guy gets hold of becomes virtually unreadable, and I'll admit, it's very hard to just let his crap slide.

I know that it's tragic that people troll, and I don't take them seriously, but I'm sure casual posters are put off by it. We're used to it, but someone who has a genuine interest in contributing is unlikely to stay around while that douchebag carries on spewing his crap all over the forum. He's basically killing the forum for anyone who doesn't just want to agree with him non-stop and troll others, and I have a problem with that. I'd turn the other cheek but he'd see it as a victory.

[SelfControl]

He may be using the Forums to perfect arguments for a public forum in which he's become invloved.

Dude, the only thing he's "perfecting" is selective reading. Not that I imagine the public forum as being much smarter that the average strip of wallpaper, but it's the insincerity that's so hard to stomach - the idea that every single thread is a potential "trap" and that for no apparent reason the other person has to navigate a totally alien realm of communication where nothing should ever be inferred from what is said (unless it should be, in which case it better be or else we are all stupid).

[Hryhorii]

He is basically the fora's version of Glenn Beck...

[knattyk420]

I honestly can agrugue both sides an i am an athesist(lil drunk sorry for the spelling) but ppl should be allowed their coping mechanisms. Do I think everyone should be w/o religion no but should I abosolutley. (yeah drank too much tonight)

[SelfControl]

Yeah, and to be honest, it's kinda lame to be told that Christians constantly try to push their religion on others. Who's doing that here? No-one. Who's constantly trying to push their "cure" for the "mindvirus" here? Answers on a postcard.

[SpreadneckGA]

^^ exactly, he uses the same tactics as the ones he loathes.

I early respond to the threads here. My advice, never respond to his baited questions, post in the sanctuary, and he will be no bother.

He is JUST like Rush Limbaugh. I find it pathetic and ironic.

[neodude1212]

as bad as fedup is, I find the ignorance of "wbld" to be even worse.

[SelfControl]

I early respond to the threads here. My advice, never respond to his baited questions, post in the sanctuary, and he will be no bother.



Thing is, I'm not a Christian, and I'd like to discuss the subject with people who aren't Christians. I don't know if he's actually barred from posting in here or something - hard to imagine him resisting the urge otherwise - but it's really lame if the only way to have a coherent debate is to set up a forum that he's explicitly not allowed into.


as bad as fedup is, I find the ignorance of "wbld" to be even worse.

True. It's like he's trying to be as "cool" as FedUp but hasn't really got the hang of saying as little as possible in each post.

[SpreadneckGA]

WBLD is a new name of an old friend.

[SelfControl]

I kinda figured he would be. Are they definitely not the same person?

I've been thinking about this mindvirus, and... it's no different from invoking God, is it? Every time he claims someone has a mindvirus or is delusional or in denial, it's no different from a Christian saying "God says you're wrong, so you're wrong". Except that, funnily enough, I've yet to see a Christian do that in the forum, because they're generally smarter.

[SpreadneckGA]

I think the same way, but it seems the ones against the "closed minded christian virus" can't see the forrest for the trees. I perosnally find it hilarious and it shows you the caliber of those people.

[SelfControl]

They talk about "reality" as well... they're rooted in a really outdated "Enlightenment" way of thinking that pretty much ignores all developments in philosophy since the 40s. They don't see how they invoke "reality" the way others invoke gods, claiming some special wisdom of the way things are which those who oppose them are naturally too "delusional" and "in denial" of to comprehend. It's how I imagine the earliest religions started, with a few people adamantly insisting that the way they see things is special and refusing to explain why to anyone who argues. And it's an old time religion; few virtues, many many sins.

[Hryhorii]

Not saying that these people are, but people are generally idiots... Hell, even I am on occasion.

[SpreadneckGA]

i am one on a number of occasions

[Skip]

Yeah, and to be honest, it's kinda lame to be told that Christians constantly try to push their religion on others. Who's doing that here? No-one. Who's constantly trying to push their "cure" for the "mindvirus" here? Answers on a postcard.that wasn't the case before. That's why the NEW rules were put in place and they seem effective.

[mamaKCita]

the christianity forum was getting terribly tedious. but isn't one of the fundamental messages of christ to turn the other cheek 70 times 7 times or some such? meeting rage with rage changes nothin, it just reinforces the haters' ideas, on either side.

[Skip]

It always amazes me when Christians act so surprised that we don't allow them to sell their religion here. Guess it's not enough for them to share their beliefs among themselves. Always gotta sell them.

BTW, we DO allow hate speech here so long as it doesn't get personal. And yes, Christians as a group go way beyond those on this forum and therefore are fair game for commentary.

Guess what? The Christianity forum is sort of a sanctuary too. For those who have issues with the religion and get censored elsewhere, ESP. on Xtian forums. So respect their right to speak freely as they respect yours in your sanctuary. It works both ways.

[ottomans]

Originally Posted by Skip
Yeah, well tell me then (at the expense of my precious time), how I could possibly in reality stop anyone from expressing themselves, given that i don't hold them in some kind of guantamo prison.

The world is a big place, just like the Internet. I have no hold on anyone. So don't accuse me of crimes I am incapable of committing, cause that is slander, and a personal insult. Therefore you get the vibe you give - it's called instant karma.

Peace (if you even have a clue),
skip
none of your posts nor the way you reply me gives any clue of your peace to me...yet you pretend to be peaceful.i am just speaking reality, right now, not defending the rights of any one there in your hip forums. you are no more or less than anyone ive met there...so dont preach me about peace...i dont suppose you have any practisible things to offer in the name of peace or happiness...
what i only seek is, politeness...ok?...so, just read and ignore this, for i dont want further conversation with you....you seem to be arrogant, undealable...
being banned here, or something like that makes no sense to me...it seems my only benefit here is language practice...i've seen no beneficical things discussed yet

Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomans
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
What you say would make sense except for the fact that there is ANOTHER xtian forum (Sanctuary) where they CAN quote the bible. So blow it out your ass.

-Skip

Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomans
well, considering myself as a guest in christian forum, i would have just viewed and been entertained by reading the posts...but i really think it to be ridiculous to prevent people from talking on their own religions, quoting from their own holy books, as the name of the forum is ,"christian"...
it should not concern me at all, however, i really find it rude, unjust and meaningless, on behalf of the forum...
just telling my opinion...so , do as u like...



"blow it out your ass " ?....gives an idea about you at all...not used to such rudeness...you had better be politer...so, blow it out from yours....







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[LanSLIde]

Chill a lil, Skip

[Skip]

Chill a lil, SkipI was just dishing his B.S. right back at him, and obviously he can't take it.

I'm not preventing anyone from doing anything and I resent such accusations, because they are a LIE.

BTW, These are the HIP forums. If you ain't HIP you don't belong here.

[mamaKCita]

poor supermods and admins. people don't read the guidelines ever. and like me, occaisionally ignore them when having a good time. it really is like a daycare.

at any rate, the most wonderful conversations i've ever had about christianity have NOT involved bible quotes. good people abound everywhere, but i get sick of people using religious texts (the prose of which is mind numbing for the most of us) instead of their enlightened souls' speech to convince me of something. most of us are far more people/result oriented than textual.

[Portalguy]

I don't run things here. But, I gotta say Sanctuary is nice. Also, if you get bored and hate speech is allowed go bomb the Atheist Forum. They tend to VERY uptight. LOL It's good fun.

[neodude1212]

lol yeah portalguy, I've seen you in there stiring up the pot numorous times.

[mamaKCita]

hehehe. yup. just keep your slurs and arrows general.

[DonGenaro]

be happy that you are persecuted..at least you know you are on the right track.

[AT98BooBoo]

The real reason that some Christians are attacked is because some people don't understand that there is the twisted perverted form of Christianity such as practiced by Bush,McCain,Sarah Palin. People look at their actions and beliefs and misakenly think that they follow the teaching of the Bible when in fact they follow John Calvin's twisted ideas.

There are two main schools of theology. Calvinism is responsible for the sick twisted perverted form of Christianity as practised by the Religeous Right and Weslyan/Arminian theology which is practised by those that simply seek to bring peace and light to the world. One of these days I'm gonna get on here and give an indepth explaination of both and the effects on the world

[JethBroh]

!