Transgender - How old is too young ?

[jungee]

Has any of you watched the Oprah Show this week called "The 11-Year-Old Who Wants a Sex Change (http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200405/tows_past_20040512.jhtml)" ? I thought it was fascinating and controversial. There were some kids as young as 11, 8 and 5 who thought they were born in the wrong body and wanted to live as the opposite sex.

Two of the parent pairs who allowed their girls to live as boys, and they really acted as such and seemed so at ease, you'd never think they were ever girls. None were taking hormones or anything...But the father of the 5 year old boy was resisting the idea of letting him play with dolls...the experts said he should let his son be himself because the statistics show that 1/3 of children grow out of it; 1/3 turn out to be gay; and 1/3 are actual transgendered.

So my questions are
Would you let your kid play with toys or the opposite sex; or live as the opposite sex ?
At what age should one be allowed to take hormonal treatments or get a sex change ?

[Taylor]

Just for hormonal and physical maturity reasons, it would have to be after puberty. Doctors probably wouldn't allow hormone treatment for kids who weren't physically mature already.

Mental maturity also really comes into it. If my kid really felt they were transgendered, I'd let them live as whatever sex they wanted to be. But hormonal treatment would have to wait until they were judged to mentally mature by their doctor. I have a feeling it would be around 18 years old. There's legal things there too... I might do some research on this as well.

hmm...yeah.

And when it comes to toys and shit... WHO CARES? I had one barbie as a child and I buried her in the garden. I preferred boys toys like cars and stuff. So much more interesting. When I have kids they're not going to be restricted to society's gender roles.

-Tamsyn

[Samhain]

don't get me started all i wanted where dolls and dolls hoses and my mum was more worried about what the neighbours thought.
all toghether now BOO HOO
seriously on my 18'th birthday i said get me a model house or don't bother with presents i didn't want anything else
s

[Samhain]

oh hang on i think most of those ages are too young a lot of people are still confused as young adults so my vote would probably be in the early twenties which isn't on your pole.
i'll have to ask my t.s friends see what they think.
i know after a certain age the body has developed so much into that sex its harder to reverse by hormonal treatments. but lets face it how many us wheren't confused about everything at the age of 18 i know i was
s

[Benny DaBuff]

I'd say 11 yo is way too young to be bothered about sexuality at all. I've heard even mature transgender cases didn't reach the happiness they were searching after the operation was completed. So I'll have to go with 18 at least.

[Samhain]

I'd say 11 yo is way too young to be bothered about sexuality at all. I've heard even mature transgender cases didn't reach the happiness they were searching after the operation was completed. So I'll have to go with 18 at least.

respectfully i think we need to think about the difference between sexuality and gender. for me sexuality is who and what one is attracted too and gender is the sex that one is.

so to play devils advocate and contridict my earlier message i would agree that 11 is young to be that bothered about sexuality but we tend to know what gender we are from an early age. at least most of us have a realisation about how society feels we should act if we're a boy or a girl whether that matches our inner feelings the way we see our selves is another matter.

s

[lucyinthesky]

wow what an awesome topic!! i definitely first of all am going to state that i can NOT stand when people don't let their kids play with whatever toys they want!! It makes me so sick! THEY ARE TOYS! Not only that, but especially parents that think Barbie is going to make their son GAY! News flash asshole, first and foremost Barbie is hot, and has boobs, ever think maybe your son is curious? lol not only that, but they get to act out real LIFE with dolls. UGHHH i so;dif[oiasdhkoashf that makes me soo frustrated!!!

ANyways, as for the whole age thing, i definitely think 18 should be an appropriate age where you can start taking the hormone stuff. Any time before that should be your time to explore yourself and decide if that's what you really want. and i also agree with the fact that even at 18 youre still trying to figure things out; i mean im almost 20 and i still know nothing about who i truely am. but at least by this age you have had the time to properly think about who you really are. i mean 18 years to get to know yourself, as oposed to only 5 or 11, is a great difference.

[rocknroll_girl]

I feel as though it's very hard for me to say, as I'm not transgendered myself. It would be more accurate to ask a group of trans folks at which age they actually felt they were in the wrong body and absolutely needed hormones.

It seems a bit of a stretch to allow any sex changes at any age to anyone, but it also seems incredibly restrictive to have a "legal age" - 18 years is a long time to be completely confused, hurt, and struggling in the wrong physiology.

Seems more research and direct conversation "for trans, by trans" is in order to get to the root of the matter. Similar in that a straight man would not be the best resource on when one identifies with one's lesbianism, I am not the best resource on when a male identifies with her transgendered reality. The difference with the latter is that we're all queer, and in these progressive days, we can recognize the need to directly ask the people affected.

Excellent poll question, by the way.

[jungee]

wow what an awesome topic!! i definitely first of all am going to state that i can NOT stand when people don't let their kids play with whatever toys they want!! It makes me so sick! THEY ARE TOYS! Not only that, but especially parents that think Barbie is going to make their son GAY! News flash asshole, first and foremost Barbie is hot, and has boobs, ever think maybe your son is curious? lol not only that, but they get to act out real LIFE with dolls. UGHHH i so;dif[oiasdhkoashf that makes me soo frustrated!!!
LOL :D I wish I had told this to my parents when they would not buy me a barbie for Christmas.

ANyways, as for the whole age thing, i definitely think 18 should be an appropriate age where you can start taking the hormone stuff. Any time before that should be your time to explore yourself and decide if that's what you really want.
Good point..maybe transgendered kids would not be thinking about hormones if they were allowed to dress however they wished and if their gender was respected and acknowleged by their community. Cause hormones seems like a drastic way to bring physical change when there is no exterior validation that what "has a penis" could still be a female, or vice versa.

[PhotoGra1]

I would say 21, but that isn't an option.

[Snowdancer]

I have been remiss in my correspondence here so please forgive me if I'm bringing up an old topic.

My take on this is hormones are pretty heavy stuff. I am very hesitant to take them myself but then again I am OK with slow development in my breasts so herbal formulations are good enough for me. That aside. there is the questions of if the kid was absolutely sure that they weren't right for their born gender during puberty would seem like a good time to adjust their body to match their spirit. By not doing so causes the whole having a body that isn't you thing. FM bothered that they don't have bulkier muscles, have breasts, their hips to big for their persona & not enough body hair. MF having the hair, not being soft enough in general, not growing the breasts & hips. Then there is the voice thing. As teens grow older the effects of the born hormones just get more exaggerated. I know I'm stating the obvious but I'm just stream of consciousness writing here, like normal. To at least slow all of the process I think would help them feel better about themselves.

Clothing is another matter. I have been up in arms for a while now that people born male deserve the same fashion freedom that people born female enjoy. Sorry, ladies but when it comes down to it you can generally wake up & decide from a much more widely accepted group of clothing without anyone giving a second thought about it or questioning your sexuality or gender identity. If you are unlucky enough to have been born with male genitalia the mere thought of wearing so many things, even so many colors, & fabrics brings in such a pile of social baggage that you would think that the complete universe is going to cease to exist if your do it. IF you do you are subject to ridicule, violence from peers & often parents, often ending up being sent to a mental professional just because you want to wear a pretty skirt. I know many men who are in no way genderqueer but just want this freedom & have all their lives. The horror stories are voluminous. Sorry, I gotta get back to subject here... Regardless of born gender, regardless of sexual preference, regardless of gender identity if someone is happier wearing clothing that happens to be of the other gender they should. If you do happen to be genderqueer & wearing clothing to help your persona to reach your spirit it should just be a given that you should do so.

As for the toy thing; Gods, that pisses me off! I was lucky enough that when I asked for a toy ironing board & iron for my birthday Mom bought me one. There was a doll that Mom had around for us to play with. It was the one hand me down from my older brothers that was in nearly perfect condition even though my oldest brother is 11 years older than I am. When I hear some parent talk about not letting their kids play with toys that aren't their gender I just cringe. Sometimes I have to say something to them but if I don't know the person well I just let it go. The kid has to decide what they want to play with not some stupid social constrict. As for some toys, to use a term I have used since I read it here a while ago, giving the kid the queers. It's not the toy that gives the queers. The kid is or isn't queer long before they have even seen the doll or the truck or the rugby ball.

OK, now back to hormones. Even though the present hormonal therapies have potential risks. If a team of medical professionals are monitoring the patient generally there is a limited risk of the negative side effects. I can't speak for anyone but myself & what I have learned from other transgendered many did know by the time that they were teens that they just weren't in the body that their spirit needed. There are also quite a few that didn't figure it out at all until they were out of their teens. In my case it was because of the social stigma & all but that isn't always the case. Parents should support the feelings of their children in this. If a girl says that she would much rather wear a three piece suit than an Easter dress that is what they should go out & buy. Same goes for the boy who tells his Mom that he wants a pretty dress. Both should be able to tell their parents this freely without fear of rejection, repression, or reprimand. That would be a perfect world. We do have a ways to go before we reach that. I hear about it more often now than I used to so I guess like many other GLBT issues we are making progress. A heel click at a time. :)

I juat had this idea! For an adult to get SRS they have to live a year as the other gender. If a teen wants the same parents should be legaly held to allow their child to do the same.

[SkeeterVT]

Has any of you watched the Oprah Show this week called "The 11-Year-Old Who Wants a Sex Change (http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200405/tows_past_20040512.jhtml)" ? I thought it was fascinating and controversial. There were some kids as young as 11, 8 and 5 who thought they were born in the wrong body and wanted to live as the opposite sex.

Two of the parent pairs who allowed their girls to live as boys, and they really acted as such and seemed so at ease, you'd never think they were ever girls. None were taking hormones or anything...But the father of the 5 year old boy was resisting the idea of letting him play with dolls...the experts said he should let his son be himself because the statistics show that 1/3 of children grow out of it; 1/3 turn out to be gay; and 1/3 are actual transgendered.

So my questions are
Would you let your kid play with toys or the opposite sex; or live as the opposite sex ?
At what age should one be allowed to take hormonal treatments or get a sex change ?A discussion on transgendered kids on OPRAH??? Wow. Oprah finally selects a topic that Jerry Springer and even Ricki Lake won't touch with a ten-foot pole.

-- Skeeter

[jungee]

Fortunately Oprah still tackles important topics when she's not busy kissing John Travolta or Julia Robert's ass.

[Snowdancer]

Face it, no one is going to dare screw with the holy Opah. She says read & millions jump to find the book that she commands. She could even have you & me on there & people would end up crying or feeling warm & fuzzy because Her Holliness, the great Oprah tells them that they should honor diversity. If she would do that. :rolleyes:
A discussion on transgendered kids on OPRAH??? Wow. Oprah finally selects a topic that Jerry Springer and even Ricki Lake won't touch with a ten-foot pole.

-- Skeeter

[karl]

i say u can be seen and checked out by your doctor to see if u do have Transgender probalmes i say after they go throw puberty and then still determend on wanting to be a women then u do have Transgender problames and ure metal state is a women

[SpliffVortex]

What The Knive Butchers Is Not The Same Any More .circumcision Alone Can Have Significant Decrease In Sexual Pleasure A Total Sex Change Is Super Drastic And Well Never Function Like It Was Meant. If Your Dumb Enough Go For It.

[Snowdancer]

If Your Dumb Enough Go For It.

It sounds as if you are saying that it is dumb to have SRS. I have through the years known, I'm guessing now, 10 people who have cahnged one way or the other. It certainly isn't anything to be undertaken without thought & in fact here in the USA & I suspect other countries it is darn near impossible to do without a lot of thinking.

They have a thing called the SOC which are are guidelines that require you to take certain steps before the medical profession will help you do certain things. You have to go to therapy for 3 months before the therapist will give you a referral to an endocrinologist to get hormones. You have to be living full time as the other gender and on hormones for a year before they will give you a referral letter for sexual reassignment surgery. This is called the ‘real life test.’ You also have to have 2 letters for SRS.
If you have enough $$ to go to Thailand, Thai doctors don’t adhere strictly to the standards. Most require either 3 or 6 months of living full time and on hormones. But if you’re sticking to U.S. surgeons, the SOC is something you’ll have to deal with.
There is one new loophole that allows a doctor to prescribe hormones if you are already taking them without a prescription. Maybe from an online pharmacy that doesn’t require prescriptions. This loophole is designed to get you to see a doctor so that they can monitor your health - which is a very good idea!

OK you can go through all of this & still manage to be uninformed but I'm quite sure that the medical/pshchological people involved would do their best to be sure that you aren't doing this for any wrong reasons.

On top osf all that. If you are living life in a body that doesn't match the real you it is something that drags upon your soul very much & you nearly have to do something to attempt to match your body with the person that you feel you really are. If you have the means & not to do so would be the dumb thing.

[stardust]

my first reaction would be to wait till at least 18, if not 21.

then i remembered something i read a while ago. apparently (and i dont know how acurate these statistics are, but i can imagine that they're about right) 30% of teenage suicides are committed by transgendered youngsters who feel they cant face living in the wrong body anymore.

if they've known from birth that they are in the wrong body, and it is likely to stop them from taking their own life, then wouldnt it be better to help them from a younger age?

peace and love
stardust
xxx

[psyadam]

Transgendered people are dead sexy. They should stay just the way they are.

[Dr Death (the DJ)]

I played with action man and my bro played with my dolls and teddies - because we used them together to play some pretty manly games and look where I ended up. Turned out his actiona man toys were my aunt's from when she was a child, she lives with her long term girlfriend...

[Ocean Byrd]

Transgendered people are dead sexy. They should stay just the way they are.

If only all of society had this view... It can be difficult to live as a woman without starting hormone replacement therapy, much less having sexual reasignment surgery done. Of course, it's not like it can't be done; it's just very painful and stressful...

I could care less about HRT (well... I'd really like it) if it wasn't such a big deal in society to appear either masculine or feminine. I'd live out my life without altering my body at all.

[SageDreamer]

I think it's mostly a medical question as far as hormones go. Imho, people should be allowed to dress as they choose and play with whatever toys they choose at any age. It's better to figure out who you are and what you want to do at as young an age as possible.

Surgery is another matter. If I'm wrong, please gently correct me, but my impression is that sex reassignment surgery is expensive and irreversible. I also believe that some counseling is required, and I think this is a good thing. My bias is against *unnecessary* surgery.

[Green]

So my questions are
Would you let your kid play with toys or the opposite sex; or live as the opposite sex ? Sure, fine with me.
At what age should one be allowed to take hormonal treatments or get a sex change ?- I am not sure, but probably 21 or before pueberty, I am not really sure and it depends on if they should do it before they grow or after, or during even.

[Ocean Byrd]

Surgery is another matter. If I'm wrong, please gently correct me, but my impression is that sex reassignment surgery is expensive and irreversible. I also believe that some counseling is required, and I think this is a good thing. My bias is against *unnecessary* surgery.

Expensive? In the United States, very (usually $10,000 to $20,000). Outside? moderately ($5,000 to $15,000). Irreversible? As far as medical technology is concerned at this time, yes. Counseling is required to an extent, but isn't all that necessary.

I am not biased when it comes to the concept of SRS; I don't even know where to stand. I see why I want it; I even understand why I feel a necessity for it. But, that doesn't mean that I should, much less truly need to go through it. Of course, that is subject to change; it depends on how I find myself functioning and feeling. It's not something I will just jump into; I deeply desire it, but don't see a true need for it right now. I would approach such a decision with the utmost caution if it does become a concern.

[Ocean Byrd]

Upon immense personal reflection, I have realized that I wanted to start hormone therapy at the age of 12; when I first read of such medical treatments. I can recollect admitting to myself that I was a girl several times prior to that... So, I stand by what I said... 13. Only after meeting so many trans people and sharing similar backgrounds do I finally realize that kids know what the fuck they're talking about.

As a matter of fact, it was the same doubt that has been installed in this very topic that led me to live in denial for 3 years. Oh, it's just the hormones... that, are making me exceptionally uncomfortable, confused and leave me feeling as though I am not in control of myself... No age, is too early to come out as being trans... Hormones, however, should wait until a more appropiate time, biologically.

[Dr Death (the DJ)]

Upon immense personal reflection, I have realized that I wanted to start hormone therapy at the age of 12; when I first read of such medical treatments. I can recollect admitting to myself that I was a girl several times prior to that... So, I stand by what I said... 13. Only after meeting so many trans people and sharing similar backgrounds do I finally realize that kids know what the fuck they're talking about.

As a matter of fact, it was the same doubt that has been installed in this very topic that led me to live in denial for 3 years. Oh, it's just the hormones... that, are making me exceptionally uncomfortable, confused and leave me feeling as though I am not in control of myself... No age, is too early to come out as being trans... Hormones, however, should wait until a more appropiate time, biologically.
Tis true that some kids honestly do know what they're on about. Years ago when I was still at school, there was a prog on TV which I wasn't allowed to watch, about a girl who knew she was a guy inside. she was 8. I didn't see the prog but it seed that by the time she was permitted through courts or something, it was harder to do the change op because she was starting to go through puberty. Apparently, more so with female to males - It is harder to change the gender, once puberty has occurred because of many things that occur within the body. As someone said on page 2 I think, ther are subtle problems such as softness, bodyshape and voice. Tis a problem!

I just wish I'd been born a guy like I have always believed I should have been. I make the most of just being 'me' now - I wear what suits me in my opinion and that's mostly baggy mens shirts which I can pretend in, when there's no mirror present.

I feel for everyone who is in my situation and envy those who are having/have had the op, specially from female to male - but I have reasons for not doing it myself.

[Ocean Byrd]

Unfortunately, FtM surgery usually does not yield results like MtF surgery. I go beyond envying post-ops; I envy genetic girls... But, I don't let it get in the way of how I interact... It's just a constant: "If only I'd been born without a birth defect..."

[Adamness]

I chose 13 [or, onset of puberty] because it makes the most sense physically. For a child to artificially begin puberty via hormones before their peers would make no sense and add a different sort of social awkwardness. But I definitely think this option should be availible to families at the onset of puberty- why force a child to go through the social and mental trauma of developing as the *wrong* gender, if they are mature enough to realize that they are transgendered at that age?

Also,

Transgendered people are dead sexy. They should stay just the way they are.
I hope I'm misinterpreting that. But if not, we don't exist for your fetishes, and will go on hormones and get surgery [or opt not to] for our own peace of mind and comfort, not for your fantasies.

[Ocean Byrd]

I chose 13 [or, onset of puberty] because it makes the most sense physically. For a child to artificially begin puberty via hormones before their peers would make no sense and add a different sort of social awkwardness. But I definitely think this option should be availible to families at the onset of puberty- why force a child to go through the social and mental trauma of developing as the *wrong* gender, if they are mature enough to realize that they are transgendered at that age?

Dear God; what I would give to have been able to avoid a male puberty... The thing I miss most is my voice. :(

[daisymae]

I would say that I would want my child to receive therapy from someone in this field. I would want them to be sure.....before anything permanent happens. (like avoiding puberty....that's permanent, too)

Also, on the subject of age...ATM, my son's friend is 4 years old, he plays with dolls, LOVE My Little Ponies and unicorns.....sings show tunes ("I'm gonna wash that man right outa my hair..";)) and dresses up in dresses. He tells his mother that he wants to have babies, and grow up to be a pretty girl. His mother is concerned....(a church-going Catholic) I hope this poor kid can grow up to be himself.....man, woman, gay...whatever.

[Ocean Byrd]

I would say that I would want my child to receive therapy from someone in this field. I would want them to be sure.....before anything permanent happens. (like avoiding puberty....that's permanent, too)

Also, on the subject of age...ATM, my son's friend is 4 years old, he plays with dolls, LOVE My Little Ponies and unicorns.....sings show tunes ("I'm gonna wash that man right outa my hair..";)) and dresses up in dresses. He tells his mother that he wants to have babies, and grow up to be a pretty girl. His mother is concerned....(a church-going Catholic) I hope this poor kid can grow up to be himself.....man, woman, gay...whatever.

If the kids four, "he" obviously has an idea of what's going on... That's said to be the age when gender identity is really concrete. My heart goes out to kids like that; I hope they get to pursue what they want. That child would get the upbringing she wanted if I were her parent. ;) :D

I know I wish I'd spoken out about my confusion when I was 7...

[IronGoth]

What does being a TV or TG have to do with being gay?

[PhoxPhyre]

What does being a TV or TG have to do with being gay?
Absolutely nothing. Does that really have anything to do with why this topic is here? I don't see a transgender discussion board anywhere...

[SpliffVortex II]

I turn transexual when i was 3 and half, and i blame David Bowie 10 years later.

[SpliffVortex II]

What does being a TV or TG have to do with being gay?Lack of real school education this day a PC is actually enough.

[Samhain]

What does being a TV or TG have to do with being gay?
this thread is about transgender not transvestites, most t.v's are straight and most t.s are highly offended to be confused with them.
the gay scene can be a haven for t.s to come to and be accepted most of the time for who they are without fear of violence and prejudice.
in western society t.s are going through very similar prejudice and unacceptance and confusion from society, that gay people went through twenty or so years ago, so its not surprising that a feeling of kindred spirit developes.
over here its known as the gay, lesbain and transexual community
S

[Arrows Next Life]

<-- Transsexual

I don't usually watch Oprah, but for some reason I did actually see that episode.

Well before puberty, it should not be an option. Basically what hormones do is they put you through puberty again, but of the opposite sex. It would make no sense to put them through puberty early.

I really don't like the idea of undergoing hormones too early, but I am Female-to-Male (FtM). Going through puberty as a woman, the only thing I need to worry about is breasts and some other figure issues, because testosterone shots will change pretty much everything else (facial hair growth, deeper voice, etc.). In the case of a Male-to-Female (MtF), estrogen doesn't stop facial hair growth or deepen the voice. If you ever see MtFs who live in countries where they can purchase birth control over the counter and start hormones early, and in places where they can get castrated, they look and sound a lot more feminine than somebody who starts it after puberty. So I can see why somebody would want to start it before puberty, but it's still a scary concept to me.

In the case of the FtMs on the Oprah show, I know at least one was going on birth control to stop him from menstruating. That seems odd to me, but then again it's been noted that transgendered people have a high suicide rate, and I'd rather have a slightly hormonally imbalanced kid than a dead one. Maybe it's because I waited and am fine that I feel this way, but early teens just seems too young. The actual sex reassignment surgery (which is not the same as hormones, mind you) should definitely wait until later, because a surgically created penis or vagina does not develop the same way as a natural one. I know a lot of MtFs who complain about having to "dilate" (widen the vaginal canal) and how uncomfortable it is, I can't imagine having to do that as a child, and then growing up and probably having to mess around even more. FtM phalloplasty surgery is just downright expensive, and I don't think it's reliable. Most adult FtMs don't get it, let alone letting a child get it.

As far as playing with toys of the opposite sex... my brothers and I both played with a huge variety of toys. We all played with trucks and we all played with dolls. Both of them experimented with dresses. I turned out transgendered, and they turned out straight males. If I had kids, I'd let them play with and wear whatever the hell they wanted, because it doesn't make any difference. And if it did, I'd like to think it wouldn't matter to me anyway.

[honeyhannah]

I think the child should be able to live as whichever gender they feel more compatible with, but when it comes to hormone treatment well I'd say 25, because that is when mental maturity is obtained, correct.

However I could see my 18 year old, when I'm 45 or so(haha) being pretty upset about not doing it then. I think at 18 it is his/her choice, but I think it'd be more appropriate to wait until 25. Maybe very difficult with the way one feels inside though.

[Samhain]

I think the child should be able to live as whichever gender they feel more compatible with, but when it comes to hormone treatment well I'd say 25, because that is when mental maturity is obtained, correct.

However I could see my 18 year old, when I'm 45 or so(haha) being pretty upset about not doing it then. I think at 18 it is his/her choice, but I think it'd be more appropriate to wait until 25. Maybe very difficult with the way one feels inside though.
well i think its a balancing act leave it to later and the person has already fully developed into the body they are going to have as their birth sex, have someone on hormones before then, and it would probably stop a lot of the unwanted developments, i.e deep voice beard growth or in female to male, breast growth.
all these things would have happened by 25 as they have by 18.
I think its a dilemma really, because some people would argue that maybe a person wouldn't know for sure until they have fully developed into thier birth sex body.
that all being said the transexuals people I know never wanted to be born into the sex they are in the first place, and would certainly therefore not want to fully develope into their birth sex before they have any treatments.
very tricky debate
S

[honeyhannah]

Yeah, I agree. In some ways I think, someone that young may not deal with the mental/emotional affects very well, but at the same time that person has already been dealing with very mental/emotional effects of not feeling comfortable in their own body.

[PatchWorkKid]

When they are legally an adult(eighteen), because they might change there mind if they are just a kid or a teen.

[Bunbury]

Good question.

It's a knotty one, it really is. By the time I hit puberty I already knew I was trans. I was nine or ten when I first realised - I don't remember how old I was, but I remember the moment very clearly. In my case, transitioning at eleven would have spared me ten years of hell, but I wouldn't recommend hormones at that age. An eleven-year-old is still a child.

To bring another strand to this (I'm developing a habit of it, I do apologise), it is possible to inhibit or delay puberty, which might be a better idea. That gives people the chance to try things out and to grow up a bit before making any irreversible changes. If you think about it, it's no less horrific to allow 'the wrong puberty' to happen naturally than to induce it. Going through natural female puberty as an FtoM or through natural male puberty as an MtoF is a horrible experience, and some of these changes (particularly for an MtoF) are irreversible. I would say that there's a strong argument for pausing natural puberty in cases where there's a likelihood that a kid is transsexual. I wouldn't, however, recommend inducing the puberty of the opposite sex by giving hormones. I think it's better to wait for a few years - people hit puberty at any age from ten to twenty - until the person has had a few years to make themselves sure beyond all doubt that they are trans. If the person is still sure at sixteen/eighteen, then hormones seem appropriate. If they've decided in the interim that they're not trans after all, it's easy enough to stop blocking puberty and allow nature to get on with it.

I can see the argument for a certain degree of maturity before the use of artificial hormones, but the other side of this is the fact that it becomes much harder after puberty. This is why I feel the delaying of puberty to be such a good idea in some cases. Also, maturity doesn't necessarily come with age. I've known people who were adults at seventeen and I've known people who were still adolescent at twenty-five...it's always going to be an arbitrary division and there will always be errors. For every person who makes the wrong decision at eighteen, there will be someone who knows unequivocally at eleven and will suffer through having to wait.

I hope I've made myself clear here. I do go on, I'm sorry. :rolleyes:

Peace,

Bunbury.

[Nair]

For hormonal treatment, I'd personnally say about whenever puberty starts around 13. I really do think something to merely lower their current hormonal levels, to give them time to think about what they are doing, while still preventing irreversible changes, may be a better idea though. I know the option I voted for, wasn't the most common here. But I personnally know the agony, of feeling uncomfortable with ones own secondary sex traits. I would likely be suicidal, if I ever had prominent irreversible traits, of either sex.

My gender identity issues, aren't so intense that I wish to have all the secondary sex traits, of the opposite sex, but had I not inherited my mothers thin fragile build, possibly significantly lower than average testosterone levels, or neutral voice from my genes, I would likely be very very very miserable right now. And knowing that some people, feel even more 'deformed' than me, I certainly do think some people should be allowed, to get hormones, to avoid feeling depressed and disfigured from possibly irreversible traits.

[erzebet1961]

Ok....I know being co-mod of this forum that I maybe shouldnt say this, but I believe in being honest about everything.....the whole concept of hormones scares me, especially in young people, I dont know why...and Im not saying that its wrong...Im just saying that, to me , its a bit frightening.

[Samhain]

Ok....I know being co-mod of this forum that I maybe shouldnt say this, but I believe in being honest about everything.....the whole concept of hormones scares me, especially in young people, I dont know why...and Im not saying that its wrong...Im just saying that, to me , its a bit frightening.
OK maybe you could explain yourself a bit more, we have to remember your also a mother, so this is the view point you'll be coming from here
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[erzebet1961]

Oh...its just one of those silly fears , you know, the surgery part doesnt scare me at all...but the hormones do.....crazy, I know !!!!!!!!!!

[erzebet1961]

Maybe its because Ive heard all the old horror stories about how hormones can play with ones emotional state...I wont even take them now that Im going through the menopause crap.....maybe I have a phobia of them.

[Samhain]

Maybe its because Ive heard all the old horror stories about how hormones can play with ones emotional state...I wont even take them now that Im going through the menopause crap.....maybe I have a phobia of them.
transexuals who want to develope a more female or male body have to take hormones and have to be on them for the rest of their lives, i don't think theres another option, once someone wants surgery, but maybe somewho knows a bit more about this can enlighten me
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[honeyhannah]

My concerns are for the emotional state of the person as well... I guess I am just an emotional person, and I think emotional health is very important.

Doing it as a teen or younger, I think those are already times of intense emotional changes, so putting hormones on top of that makes me scared for that person.

Of course that person already has emotional issues, because of the taboos associated with the whole thing... so I really don't know.

[Samhain]

My concerns are for the emotional state of the person as well... I guess I am just an emotional person, and I think emotional health is very important.

Doing it as a teen or younger, I think those are already times of intense emotional changes, so putting hormones on top of that makes me scared for that person.

Of course that person already has emotional issues, because of the taboos associated with the whole thing... so I really don't know.
it may be more emotional, if their bodies are developing in a way they really hate
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[Sunburst]

Just as I think tattoos and drinking ages should be 18, I think doing anything to your body that will be permanent should wait until you are a legal adult.

[Samhain]

Just as I think tattoos and drinking ages should be 18, I think doing anything to your body that will be permanent should wait until you are a legal adult.
what about the puberty arguement, some people may feel that growing body or growing breasts are permanent damage they just can't live with
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[honeyhannah]

It's a tough decision I think. I can totally see how that could be traumatic to go through puberty of the wrong sex. And if I had a kid that could convincingly give me that argument, I'd probably let them. But it'd be tough as a parent to give permission on something so huge. Theoretically I'd like to think it's better to wait until the mental capacity *seems more adept, as in legal age, but I can see how that may not be so on other levels.

[cerridwen]

As a child or teenager, you're experiencing a lot of changes, and because of that, a lot of confusion. I really don't think that hormonal treatment should start until after one turns 18, once puberty is over. Being a teenager is hard enough to deal with. Take one thing at a time!

[Emo Bitch]

i think they should live as the other sex for a few years...just to make sure...
there are alot of them that ended their lives because of that...
they didnt like it, and they couldnt go back...they didnt think it all the way through...
11 is waaaay too young...
i wouldnt mind cross-dressing at that age...
but anything else...no

[Apsenniel]

it's best to try before going on hormones, i'm 18 and everyone suggests it's best to try to live as a girl at home for a while, and see if i really like it, that way i won't make some huge mistake, hormones can wait a bit, if you'd ask me, especially if your young and still in puberty...

[Innocent Angel]

But puberty is pretty much irreversable. Once you've gone through it, you're constantly fighting the effects of it your whole life. I know i am. If you've felt in the wrong body since the age of about 4 or 5 (The age i first knew), Then by the time you reach about 12 or 13 if you've gone all those years knowing that and never doubting it, then you'll probably feel like that forever. Although my life is still hell now, my teenage years were filled with dark and suicidal thoughts. And i KNOW one of the main reasons for that was puberty. I know when i started getting a lot of bodily and facial hair growth, i just wished i could rip the skin off myself. (I still do) And your voice breaking is another irreversable symptom of puberty. I never had to dress like a girl to "make myself believe i was one", i always knew i was.

[dewaholic]

I voted 18. I have a 5 year old son & I wouldn't mind at all if he felt he was really female. One time, I walked in on him painting all his finger & toenails. That just cracked me up. But I don't think that he was born the wrong gender, cuz he is such a boob freak. I wouldn't mind if he was a cross dresser of any sexual oriantation. Mainly, cuz he's my son & I'd support him no matter what. On the other hand, the guy that got me pregnant, (he's no father) is an ignorant homophobe. (among lots of other things) & seeing my son in a skirt, would just drive that guy nuts.

[Silverwolf]

This truly is a difficult subject, teenage years can be confusing, but other times not. When you feel you are in the wrong body, and it feels completely wrong, then it can be a life or death situation for some. I was maybe 3/4 when I asked my mom when I'd turn into a boy, she told me I wouldn't and I guess I dropped it. Though as I grew older, and dressed myself, I became a tomboy and more masculine (not really in features, sadly). Around puberty was the time I started to become depressed, I took menstration in stride, and dealt with it. Up until maybe a year or two ago, I didn't know what transgender was, and I identified as a butch lesbian. But something still wasn't right, I hated the sight of my chest, and was jealous of my male peers. I would get extremely upset when someone joked about me looking/being like a guy, because I wanted to. I'm currently seeing a psychologist, and going to get an official diagnosis for my doctor to possibly start hormones.

To answer the original question, what age. It depends on the person. There was recently a 20/20 episode done on 3 transgendered children, two young mtf girls who were adorable I must say. The older of the two (they were being semi-interviewed) broke down in tears because she was so sad about it, and it made me want to cry. The last kid was the oldest in the program, and he is about 16/17, taking testosterone.
I guess it's best for hormones to be taken later in teen years, maybe while puberty is still happening. See, in order to do most of these things, taking hormones and srs, you have to see a psychologist, and be diagnosed, if your doctor is following the standards of care. Just my .02

[mushie18]

I think it would be best to administer hormones after puberty.

[MatthewShane]

I think 18. You gain full responsability as an adult and its still young enough to live a happy life with whatever you choose to do. Before 18 ..I would be scared people would not be sure enough on such a thing.

[Innocent Angel]

I think it would be best to administer hormones after puberty.Ideally, i would agree with that. As in age wise. However, once you've gone through puberty, irreversable damage (which is exactly what it is if youre in the wrong body) has already been done to your body, and any hormones taken after this point will have a far lesser impact than if you took them before puberty. And seeing as now there is such a thing as 'puberty blockers', there is no reason to make a 13/14/15 year old go through an experience they vehemently don't wish to endure. Then afterwards, if it is just a "phase", the puberty blockers can easily stop being taken, allowing you to go through a normal puberty. No damage done there. With these puberty blockers, i see NO reason why any young person who feels they are in the wrong body should be subject to the torment and and irreversable effects of puberty.

I would definitely have taken hormones before puberty if i had that option, but failing that, the puberty blockers would have been very welcome as well. I only say this, as the effects of puberty makes it much harder to "appear" female, than if you didnt go through it. I am talking from bitter experience, so i should know.