The teachings of Don Juan

[Hari]

Anyone familiar with that?

[juicy_redgirl]

no...no i'm not.

[Hari]

You missing out then.

[maryfairy]

i read half of it. but i stole my dad's copy from him so i'm going to finish it. hopefully in the next month.

[sylvanlightning]

Yes. Also enjoyed "The Power of Silence" by Carlos.

[Skip]

I'm surprised there aren't more responses here...

I've read them all (I think).

I never looked at the desert the same again.

I was never the same again.

Beware the Nagual.

[sylvanlightning]

I think I have read or at least skimmed all of his work as well.

[Hari]

I read all of them starting with 'Journey to ixlatan' and ending with "the art of dreaming". Although some others came out after, the older ones you can read over and over, and they never seem repetitious. Even while I was travelling I would stop in bookstores ands read a few chapters of the old and whatever was new at the time

People think that books like "journey of the peaceful warrior" and "the celestince prophesy" compare to them, but it's like putting a candle to next to the sun, in my opinion.

[BlackBillBlake]

Anyone familiar with that?
I've read most of Castaneda's books - the single most interesting one is 'The Fire From Within' in my opinion. But I wonder about the whole thing - did Don Juan actually exist? Outside Castaneda's head, that is? Several others, Ken Eagle Feather, Merilyn Tunneshende to name two, claim to have met him, and their accounts are quite different. Myself, I think it is an example of great 'creative writing'.
But, Hari - I'm surprised you're interested in this, given your posts to other forums here. Whether or not Don Juan was a real person, there is certainly no place for God, or any kind of spirituality in Toltequity!

[Hari]

Castaneda came first, around 74 and later on after reading the gita I moved to more eastern things and began frequenting temples. One verse in the gita says that there is no difference between even analitical study of the universe and Bakti, for both lead to the same destination.
About Don Juan not being real, not a chance, but rumors are created due to people's skeptisims.

"Mescalito" as Don Juan called it, was a teacher, and he teaches how you can change your life. This was according to Don Juan, the God of mescaline, but that was his interpretation, he however did not ask for worship.

Another instance of a deity was when Carlos sees "the mold of man" and really surprised me because he was described as blue, and Carlos was so completely entranced by his beauty that he spontaneously created prayers of surrender when he saw him, exactly like Narada muni's first time and others when they realise krishna or see him.
Don Juan said that a man of knowledge can see the mold of man anytime they want.

God is not the God only of India, or the mediterranean, but he will be found anywhere people seek wisdom and liberation. He will come also according to the nature of the worship of the individuals, or even where they do not expect it.
Ignorance alone wants to put God in one place or in one method and not in another, while even more ignorant people want to debase the revelations given to those who have been chosen
to give the revelations to all.
There are different levels no doubt.

[BlackBillBlake]

The thing is that I'm not going to go through CC's work to find the quotes that would show that Don Juan tells him very clearly that religion in all manifestations, is a knd of garbage tip, an ante-room to reality. The impeccable warrior has no time for such stuff. He knows that tales of immortality of the soul etc. are just that - tales. In reality, the awareness of ordinary men goes to feed the eagle - only the toltec can escape this fate. Because he doesn't die, but leaves this world in the body, as Don Juan and his party of sorcerers are said to do. CC himself appears to have left a body behind when he went. It is certainly not that there is any question of any survival of death for religious devotees etc. They are simply fooling themselves with minute shifts of the assemblage point. There 'god' is simply 'the human mould'. In 'The Fire From Within' I believe that CC tells how he became fascinated with this 'human mould' in a religious way, despite Don Juan's telling him it is all a waste of time for the seer.

There is much more in other places that must lead inevitably to the conclusion that this is not in any way compatible with any spiritual view of life.
As for the early books and the mescaline, datura and mushroom trips, Don Juan tells him later that it is not good, and he only did it because CC was very difficult to get to on one side of his awareness.
But I maintain that the thing is fiction anyway.

[Hari]

I will not argue that since I cannot be sure of anything. It is being certain itself that makes us foolish, because it makes us defend things we have no direct experience about. When I was reading CC it was exactly what I needed, an anti religious view of spirituality, a greater perspective of God than the one common in ordinary christianity.

Religions after it has been sterilised by the hypocrites what remains is a mockery, and one needs to have spiritual eyes open. There is center of wisdom within ourselves that many will never
awaken, not in one life; for that reason halucinogenics came into the picture.

Some would never overcome the barrier of the hate against the hipocritical religious indoctrination, if not for them.

No one needs a medicine for life if that medicine can heal one in a few takes, thus what you may see as a contradiction, may be only your limited vision.

To rely on ones' intelect and limited knowledge to unravel the boundless mysteries, and to put down other peoples' paths is the worst trip there is, and doomed from the start simply to delude, and never to liberate.

No matter how qualified a student may be, he must be first broken down and taken off the high-horse of arrogance even before being taught the first lesson; in that, all teachers
resemble one another.

"you must unlearn what you have learnt" was not said by Yoda first, "you cannot receive if your cup is full".

No two true teachers teach exactly the same way, but how they break down the barrier of self-assumptions in the learners, is entirely up to them, and not to us pigmies.

[sassure]

JOURNEY TO IXTLAN is my personal favorite of the lot. I don't care much about the hoopla surrounding the "authenticity" of what the books contain...the fact is that the books provide some pretty valuable insights, a bit like the Lobsang Rampa series set in Tibet......

[Hari]

JOURNEY TO IXTLAN is my personal favorite of the lot. I don't care much about the hoopla surrounding the "authenticity" of what the books contain...the fact is that the books provide some pretty valuable insights, a bit like the Lobsang Rampa series set in Tibet...... Well said. I't's all about how truth rings a bell within us when we hear it if we have it, and it don't matter if it's Bugs Bunny, Einstein or Jesus
who speaks it.

That eliminates the charlatans and the 'schollary' that fool many people by charm, reputation or education; but nonetheless those fooled deserve it in a way, if you catch my drift.

I did enjoy the Lobsang Rampa "keeping the flame" and that was given to me by a hippy that ran a store in San francisco, in exchange for a strange medallion I was wearing.

The spirit works in mysterious, and not obvious ways.

[BlackBillBlake]

I will not argue that since I cannot be sure of anything. It is being certain itself that makes us foolish, because it makes us defend things we have no direct experience about. When I was reading CC it was exactly what I needed, an anti religious view of spirituality, a greater perspective of God than the one common in ordinary christianity.

.
But CC says clearly that God does not exist! He's not giving a wider perspective on God, but on something else entitrely - or so goes the claim! CC was a gifted writer, and no doubt, there's some kind of 'wisdom' in there, but not that much.
Also, because of the stuff about the eagle, which devours the awareness of the non-sorcerer at death, there is no hope for most of the people now living -

I didn't venture any opinion on psychedelic drugs, I simply stated that Don Juan tells CC at on stage that they are dangerous and can lead to imbalance etc. But even if that wasn't so, Don Juan makes it clear that only such substances 'from the gourd of a Brujo' can be effective.

That is not my own opinion.

[Cosmic Butterfly]

SylvanLightning! Thank you for this wonderful link!! Bless all of you.



If you have any other amazing websites please PM. Love and Light

[Hari]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/kaliceum/

This is my journal and livejournal is 2 million strong.(the colorful pics ar at the bottom)

[Meagain]

I've read ten of Carlos' books.

[sylvanlightning]

http://www.dhushara.com/book/genaro/genaro.htm#anchor1448406

"Aztec shamans had two notions of the soul which have been extensively 'revamped' by Carlos Castaneda. I will describe as the tonal the natural soul of the person - their birth nature - their organismic soul, which tries to make ordered sense of the world in which they find themselves. Complementing this, and yet quite separate, is a kind of power soul which comes not from their genetic nature, but from the collective unconscious and quantum-nonlocality. Some shamans would perceive it as a power animal, but really it is an unperceivable 'ally' - the nagual - the agent, not of order, but of chaotic transition."

'By cleaning the island of the tonal so that it is regrouped on the side of reason, the bubble of perception is polarized naturally into its tonal and nagual complement. By so freeing the tonal, it becomes capable of responding to the effects of the nagual so that the sorceror can enable the sentient bundle of awarenesses that has become linked in the incarnation of the individual to become loosened, not as completely as in death when the associations of the bundle separate again, but just sufficiently for the nagual to be witnessed by the tonal. The teacher and benefactor then work together to open the bubble, so that the totality of the self can be apprehended. 'There was no longer the sweet unity I call "me". I was a myriad of selves which were all "me", a colony of separate units that had a special allegiance to one another and would join unavoidably to form one single awareness, my human awareness. The unbending solidarity of my countless awarenesses, the allegiance that those parts had for one another was my life force... suddenly the "me" I knew and was familiar with erupted into the most spectacular view of all the imaginable combinations of beautiful scenes. Finally it was as if I were witnessing the organization of the world rolling past my eyes in an unbroken, endless chain.'

~*


When the bubble of perception breaks one finds the inner luminous fibers are connected with a universal cosmic loom. Bands of perception are still tonal in form. Awareness is the indivisible point beyond and holding together maya or the illusion of form. Consiousness is beyond the form of a single cultural expression. That which is not, at least, self aware returns to feed the eagles' new dream children.

I will raise the question "How is God different from Awareness?"

[Cosmic Butterfly]

God is awareness I believe. Perhaps so aware that we would even comprehend it as unawareness/void, or itself. Nirvana. Infinite, and we are all this God.


That is very interesting about the Nagual word. This may be off but one of my power animal's is the wolf named Naga. I had a vision of my other wolf being/brother somwhere near on a mountain in mexico. An old man to be exact. This language cannot describe, but it was fractual interdimensional eagle that called me to the wolf, who showed me. It is beautiful.

[sylvanlightning]

That is very interesting about the Nagual word. This may be off but one of my power animal's is the wolf named Naga. It is beautiful.

Ah, Naga... so you remember us.
http://www.serpentsofwisdom.com/books.htm#serp

[paintingjames]

HariGod is not the God only of India, or the mediterranean, but he will be found anywhere people seek wisdom and liberation. He will come also according to the nature of the worship of the individuals, or even where they do not expect it.
Ignorance alone wants to put God in one place or in one method and not in another, while even more ignorant people want to debase the revelations given to those who have been chosen
to give the revelations to all.
There are different levels no doubt.ignorance alone also wants to ascribe a gender to God bahahaha

[Hari]

God is male or otherwise you'd say Goddess.
ha ha.

[BlackBillBlake]

Its true that in 'Tales of Power' Don Juan tells Carlos that the nagual is a kind of indefinable something - an energy perhaps. In the very next book though, it turns out that Don Juan was the nagual. A further development and carlos is the new nagual - but the wrong sort! He is a three pronged nagual, whilst the party Don Juan has left him to lead to feedom need a four pronged nagual like Don Juan. Inconvenient that, But the whole thing undergoes so many twists and turns - all the mark of great fiction.

[sylvanlightning]

How does so many people imbued with spirit, change what spirit is?
This statement is like saying spirit appearing as Mother Meera, Yeshua, Krishna, Mohammed, Don Juan, Carlos... we could go on, devalues the oneness of spirit.

Form and gender apply to words but not to essence or spirit.
The formless all must contain the elements of all manifestation.

I see your logic. Do you see mine?

[Hari]

How does so many people imbued with spirit, change what spirit is?
This statement is like saying spirit appearing as Mother Meera, Yeshua, Krishna, Mohammed, Don Juan, Carlos... we could go on, devalues the oneness of spirit.

Form and gender apply to words but not to essence or spirit.
The formless all must contain the elements of all manifestation.

I see your logic. Do you see mine?
I do. I agree with what you say and it's exactly as I believe although I know you asked the person that denies the existence of Don Juan.
This is for him and others that think in that manner:

There's no trying to find contradictions in the words of a great sage, and not finding them. You can find them endelssly and that's why so few follow. In the case of Jesus when he talked about 'you have to eat my flesh and drink my blood', many left, and only a few remained.

Don Juan never went looking for disciples, and Carlos was not looking for a teacher. There are those who say they have read Carlos Castaneda,
but they haven't, and if they did, they did it after they had heard the wholle controversy about the reality of Don Juan. Right now there are two other forums I frequent that are bringing undeniable proof that Jesus didn't exist.

Why would you believe Krishna existed and not Don Juan? Right now in this planet there are not just one, but 100,000 like Don Juan. That you haven't heard about it, is not gonna make them dissapear... unless they want to.

[sylvanlightning]

A poem was once here ~*

[sonik]

There are those who say they have read Carlos Castaneda,
but they haven't, and if they did, they did it after they had heard the wholle controversy about the reality of Don Juan.
What do you mean by this exactly?

[Hari]

What do you mean by this exactly? I mean... like there's an analogy about feeding milk to a snake.

If a serpent touches milk it poisons it, so it's like the doubting Thomases pseudo intelectuals who's only mission is to disprove the existence of any wonderfulful mysterious or magical thing, or even worse, that only their religion is real, and only the prophets of that particular religion are real, when even the prophets of any religion themselves would not make that kind of arbitray division.

If by disfortune one hears about some great sage
from the mouth (like the snake) of them, then one will not look at that purely again, but more from the perpective of doubt and even scorn.

Somewhere I read that Don Juan and Carlos were brought together by the spirit for the new age that soon would be eclipsed by the modern age of
technology.

What was brought by that meeting was those books that contain so much substance even in one page.

Don Juan's words are living waters , like Jesus's, like Krishna's, like Budha's; like any great person inspired by spirit. "behold the sheep hear my voice" "man does not live by bread alone, but every word than proceeds from the mouth of God".
Could Carlos come up with those words? Could Arjuna come up with the Bhagavad gita, or some pope with the words of Jesus? could you write stuff even like let's say Emerson or shakespeare?

It is the words that have weight, and if we can recognise knowledge and power, is because we have it to some extent, but if we listen to the snake and agree then it's because we have that dobt inside too,(or desire) and soon we're taken by the wayside, like Eve in the garden.

This is what I meant by what I said before using less words.

"There are those who say they have read Carlos Castaneda, but they haven't, and if they did, they did it after they had heard the wholle controversy about the reality of Don Juan."

[sylvanlightning]

~*

[Hari]

Did you like my poetic offering to the thread?
I will take my time reading that and let you know...
although poetry is never wrong.

[Cosmic Butterfly]

It is all real, it all exists.

[BlackBillBlake]

How does so many people imbued with spirit, change what spirit is?
This statement is like saying spirit appearing as Mother Meera, Yeshua, Krishna, Mohammed, Don Juan, Carlos... we could go on, devalues the oneness of spirit.

Form and gender apply to words but not to essence or spirit.
The formless all must contain the elements of all manifestation.

I see your logic. Do you see mine?
I don't think the Nagual is equivalent to spirit. There are many places where CC makes this clear - it is said in ch 16 of 'the fire from within' that these mystics and so on are simply deluding themselves - Krishna, Jesus etc... all were wholly deluded by 'the mould of man'.
The biggest difference however is that these beings actually existed, whilst I believe that Don Juan is a figment of CC's imagination.

[sylvanlightning]

He does not mention Krishna or Jesus. The 'mould of man' resembles the concept of Isvara. You should read "The Power of Silence" for insights provided into spirit.

"Once again Carlos Castaneda accounts, with even more clarity, the workings of the sorcerers' world. In Power of Silence, Castaneda outlines the abstract cores of sorcery: The Manifestations of the Spirit--the energetic fact that everyone is a conduit for the spirit but that we are too busy with the affairs of everyday life to notice; The Knock of the Spirit--the attempts the spirit takes to get each of us to notice it; The Trickery of the Spirit--the gyrations through which the spirit moves to hold our interest; and The Descent of the Spirit--when the spirit cuts the chains of our self-reflection. Through Don Juan's masterful stories, Castaneda realizes the importance of inner silence: the position of the assemblage point away from self-reflection, the point where the universe makes itself known to man."

However, I will make the counter point, that anything not coming from the mouth of a living connection to source, is fiction.

[BlackBillBlake]

Dear SL,


I have read all of CC's books with the exception of 'Magical Passes'.And a number of works by other so-called Toltecs. I don't dispute that Don Juan talks about the 'spirit', but I don't think he means by that what I understand by it. It simply cannot be that the nagual is equivalent to the spirit, because in 'Tales of Power' when DJ first mentions the nagual, he says that its opposite, the tonal is like a table, and anything we can concieve of or name is an item on this table. Hence the spirit is just another part of the tonal.

My main objection to Toltequity is that it is pretty much a closed book as regards the overwhelming majority of people. It is made clear that the path is only for a very few, and that it is quite impossible without the actual presence of a nagual being of the correct confiruration, and so on.
But above all, there is no place in any of this for Divine Love. That is something you won't find mentioned, other than in derisory terms.
The eagle is not God - it has no compassion whatsoever for human beings. The spirit is not God - the way it is described makes it seem to me like some aspect of the life-force in nature.
Also - those with children are excluded unless they turn their back on those children and sever all connection.
Those who wish a sex life will also find little here - 'keep it for pissing through' is Genaro's advice, if memory serves me! So this is no good to those who fancy themselves to be 'Tantrics' etc.

I first read CC many years ago, back in the 70's, and I too wanted to believe in DJ - but it is really something that is out on its own - I find very little resonnance with other systems,very little with my own experiences, and over time, I have come to see it as simply great creative writing. Where other so called Toltec writers are concerned, they all deviate quite a bit from what CC says, and are quite likely even more spurious than CC himself, who at least thought the thing up.

If you think that the existence of Jesus or Krishna or Divine Mother can be reconciled with these 'teachings' I'd be very interested to hear how this is possible.

[sylvanlightning]

"All paths lead nowhere...
so it is important to choose
a path with heart..." Don Juan

All teachings are unique, as are all teachers... I enjoy dancing, with words, and never mean harm... seeing how a key may be found in the strangest of places.

In an earlier poem, written about these writtings, I stated
"God is an indestructible Nucleus." By this I refer to my faith.
My faith is based on the solid foundation of experience.
Meditation and silence are profound keys to reaching this center, within.

I would greatly value words from Meagain on any aspect of this thread.

Much love.

[Hari]

In 'Tales of Power' when DJ first mentions the nagual, he says that its opposite, the tonal is like a table, and anything we can concieve of or name is an item on this table. Hence the spirit is just another part of the tonal.
It's of the greatest absolute importance to not only remember what one reads but, also remember it correctly.

According to my memory the example of the table
refers only to the tonal, and also if I remember well, DJ say that the nawal is what we cannot put on the table.

Before he begins telling Carlos anything, he says that this will be the most important thing he will ever tell him; he makes the basic introduction of the two parts of man, and Carlos goes into a long elucidation about western psychology and the conscious and unconcious.; Don Juan says that Carlos doesn't really know, and that this is very far removed from what he has to say. At this point I dared to disagree with Don Juan a bit, thinking that concious-unconcious is a pretty good conclusion, yet he explains that if a man 'knew' this, his actions would be different.
It is not intelectual knowledge or a subject for mere thought and discussion.

What is more admirable about the lineage of toltecs, is that their practices were not centered
around intelectualism, which seems to be what all the western philosphers are all about, and about
writing essays and books and giving lectures, when their path (toltects) was all about hunting for power obtaining it and maintaining it.

Don Juan never wrote a book, but it was the arrangement of power to unite both the master and the student at that time; wether in the Sonora desert or the mountains of Peru, not any differently with than Krishna and Arjuna on a battlefield in India.

From the former we have the Carlos legacy and from the later the Bagavad-gita; and both writing traditions are good for doctrine, councel, instruction, and reproof. Power which can be traslated to courage and virtue, cannot be divorced from a spiritual path.

In the west we are more used to people like Joseph Cambell and Allan Watts tell us that knowledge doesn't have to come with great character. That one doen't have to have austerity
or abstenance, and that one can live a 'normal' life, but experience will always tell us the opposite.

[BlackBillBlake]

It's of the greatest absolute importance to not only remember what one reads but, also remember it correctly.

According to my memory the example of the table
refers only to the tonal, and also if I remember well, DJ say that the nawal is what we cannot put on the table.

Before he begins telling Carlos anything, he says that this will be the most important thing he will ever tell him; he makes the basic introduction of the two parts of man, and Carlos goes into a long elucidation about western psychology and the conscious and unconcious.; Don Juan says that Carlos doesn't really know, and that this is very far removed from what he has to say. At this point I dared to disagree with Don Juan a bit, thinking that concious-unconcious is a pretty good conclusion, yet he explains that if a man 'knew' this, his actions would be different.
It is not intelectual knowledge or a subject for mere thought and discussion.

.
I quote from 'tales of power' -'the island of the tonal'

'The nagual is that part of us for which there is no description - no words, no names, no feelings, no knowledge'
'Would you say the nagual is the mind?'
'No, the mind is an item on the table'...........
...'Is the Nagual the soul?'
'No, the soul is also on the table'.............
..........'Is it a state of grace?'
'No, not that either'...........
.......'Is the nagual the supreme being, the almighty, God?'
'No, God is also on the table'

This seems clear enough. One doesn't need to be either a philosopher or a rationalist to see that. So it seems spurious to me to identify the nagual as anything.
But of course in the next book, the term is used differently to describe a type of being of a specific energy configuration.

[BlackBillBlake]

Also Hari - you speak of 'mere thought and discussion' - but what else could you hope for in a discussion forum? If you think this is too farout to talk about, think about or discuss, why post the thread?

[Hari]

Also Hari - you speak of 'mere thought and discussion' - but what else could you hope for in a discussion forum? If you think this is too farout to talk about, think about or discuss, why post the thread?
Aren't we discussing?

[Hari]

I quote from 'tales of power' -'the island of the tonal'
The island of the tonal was what DJ was talking about when Carlos continued to add items to the table.

Anything you can visulalise, imagine, talk about and even dream about is within the island.

Island means surounded by water, limited, with beginning and end.

The Nawal is beyond that. Subconcious or collective unconcious would be proper terms to use but people tend to think that by those terms they actually "know" the thing. Unconcious means actually that. There is a reality beyond the island of the concious. I have my reality right now, can you enter my reality? of course not.
To you my island is outside in the Nagual, and viceversa.

The world you imagine to yourself be in, is the scope of your imagination only.

"the real world" is outside of that college or outside that sensual and mental collage of the tonal or concious mind.

[sonik]

anybody care to attempt a summary of this thread so far? its becoming a bit unwieldly with knowledge!

[sylvanlightning]

a poem was once here ~*

[Cosmic Butterfly]

So in a sense, is Nagual like Nirvana? Beyond anything that our illusionary selves can conceive???

'The nagual is that part of us for which there is no description - no words, no names, no feelings, no knowledge'
'Would you say the nagual is the mind?'
'No, the mind is an item on the table'...........
...'Is the Nagual the soul?'
'No, the soul is also on the table'.............
..........'Is it a state of grace?'
'No, not that either'...........
.......'Is the nagual the supreme being, the almighty, God?'
'No, God is also on the table'

I understand this and it touches me. Even I thinking of God, and trying to perceive him as nagual puts it on the table. It is an island of perception of what God is and perhaps relating him the the undescribable Nagual, and trying to rationalize it....You get what I mean. Blah, language is such a block. I wish I could just send all my inner feeling to you. Something like synthenasia (sp).

Blessings Beauty Love you All

[sylvanlightning]

Don Juan's Vision of Reality


This material selected from the first chapter of The Teachings of Don Carlos, summarizes key elements of don Juan's view of reality that have been useful to my understanding.

The Description of the World

At the moment of birth, babies do not perceive the world in the same way as do adults. Their attention is not yet functioning as the first attention, therefore they do not share the same perceptual world of those around them.

. . . This they will have to achieve, little by little, as they grow and assimilate the description of the world provided by their elders. Anyone, especially an adult, who comes into contact with an infant, in effect becomes a teacher - in most cases unconsciously - who incessantly describes the world to the child. . . .

I watched this process with my granddaughter. A part of me wanted to scream: No - No don't get caught up in an illusion that may take the rest of your life to reconcile. But she too, as the rest of us, must first fall asleep to awaken again to the mystery of life.

It is valid to say that what we perceive daily is the same description flowing constantly from ourselves toward the outside world. . . . If the flow is suspended, our perception of the world collapses, resulting in what is known in the writings of Castaneda as "stopping the world." Seeing refers to the capacity to perceive the world as it appears once the flow of the description has been interrupted. . . .

When I encountered "stopping the world" in Castaneda's writings, my mind was arrested. Some part of me sought the paradoxical truth suggested by that phrase. How could I stop the world?

The Internal Dialogue

The internal dialogue is the mental conversation that we sustain constantly with ourselves and is the most immediate expression of reality assimilated by everyone. . . . This can come to such extremes that we accustom ourselves to substitute thoughts in place of reality. We look at the world, the things, the people, or ourselves, at the same time thinking about what we see, and finish by taking our thoughts for the real thing. . . .
For much of my life, substituted thoughts represented the only reality. Castaneda's work suggested that need not be my experience. As Korzybski so clearly stated: "Words ARE NOT the things they represent." What a tragic flaw of the internal dialogue!

Not-Doing

One way in which the first ring (internal dialogue) can be blocked is by performing actions foreign to our ordinary description of the world - what is known as not-doing. The ordinary description of the world compels us to behave always according to the terms it indicates; therefore, all actions emanate from said description and subsequently tend to revalidate it. These actions are what is known as "doing" and in combination with the description that nourishes them, they make up a system that is virtually self-sustaining. Any action that is not congruent with the description of the world would constitute a form of "not-doing."

Not-doing is Taoism pure and simple. Chinese wei wu wei translates as "doing not-doing." Ancient Chinese sages and descendents of the pre-Colombian Toltec culture came to the same principle of reality though separated by half a planet.

Not-doing interrupts the flow of the description, and this interruption in turn suspends the doing of the world of the known. Not-doing is the medium that opens the way to the unknown side of reality and of oneself. In other words, it provides access to the nagual - what is referred to in the case of the world as the separate reality, or in the case of an individual as the awareness of the other self. . . .

The other self resides at the core of my being. I have come to know this as The Intuitive Self - the informing theme for this web site.

The Ego as Part of the Description

When by means of the not-doings of the personal self, we interrupt the flow of the description of our own person, we free ourselves from the enchantment of the ego - which wants us to believe that it represents the only reality. . . . Starting from that moment, we can take on the task of reinventing ourselves in an intentional and voluntary fashion, able to respond in novel ways to new situations that each moment provides for us. . . .
The Intuitive Self knows everything necessary to be in the world. Encountering the moment, The Intuitive Self does the right thing. This does not mean seeking pleasure and avoiding pain. If the moment evokes the experience of pain, my core should accept this without judgment as it would pleasure.

The Tonal and Nagual

Castaneda makes his most detailed exposition of the tonal and the nagual in Tales of Power. There he reveals to us the two aspects of the tonal: as the space in which the average person exists during the duration of life; and as the organizer that gives meaning and significance to everything having to do with awareness. . . .

The nagual then would be all that remaining outside the tonal. It is that about which it is not possible to think. Castaneda presents the tonal as an island upon which is passed the whole of life. No one knows anything about what lies beyond the borders of the island. The nagual would be all that space of unfathomable mystery surrounding it.

Although the nagual cannot be understood or verbalized - since understanding and words belong to the tonal - it nevertheless can be witnessed and experienced. That is one of the prime objectives of a sorcerer. It is not important to try to understand or rationalize the experience of the nagual; the sorcerer is interested only in the pragmatic possibilities it puts within his or her reach.

Living with The Intuitive Self along with The Rational Self, naugal being complements tonal doing. Experiencing epiphanies in naugal being intimates "that art thou" as the Upanishads prophesied.

http://www.the-intuitive-self.org/scripts/frameit/author.cgi?/website/author/memoir/supplements/don_juan_reality.html


*my last poetic offering to this thread*

Drumming on the edge

Slip into an energetic gown
and let us jump off the edge,
into the abyss.

Take this leap,
with me,
into the unknown.

Forget the structure,
the letters and the numbers,
and blend amorphously silky.

Erase your concepts,
of character and history,
and lets kiss like galaxies.

Falling, yet everywhere,
dissolving into pulses,
golden obsidian sparkles.

We will find only the newness,
of omniscient omnipresence,
in this empowering equality.

What could be more sensual
than blending liquid bands,
of conscious inter-touching bliss.

[Hari]

Thanks fror your contribution to the thread.
Not everything has to be arguments, yet if you know someone is off point then you need to make it clear or put your 2.0 worth.

Don Juan used to say that poetry is a WAY TO stalk oneself.

[Hari]

So in a sense, is Nagual like Nirvana? Beyond anything that our illusionary selves can conceive???

'The nagual is that part of us for which there is no description - no words, no names, no feelings, no knowledge'
'Would you say the nagual is the mind?'
'No, the mind is an item on the table'...........
...'Is the Nagual the soul?'
'No, the soul is also on the table'.............
..........'Is it a state of grace?'
'No, not that either'...........
.......'Is the nagual the supreme being, the almighty, God?'
'No, God is also on the table'

I understand this and it touches me. Even I thinking of God, and trying to perceive him as nagual puts it on the table. It is an island of perception of what God is and perhaps relating him the the undescribable Nagual, and trying to rationalize it....You get what I mean. Blah, language is such a block. I wish I could just send all my inner feeling to you. Something like synthenasia (sp).

Blessings Beauty Love you All
Thanks...

As it says in the begginning of the speech
"the naguals is a part of us for which there's no description".

The beauty of this is that something which is
"part" of us is infinite and indescribable; talk about something to rejoice about.

Being able to imagine and talk about something is not the essential for that to be real. The search for this has been at the bottom of every philosophy and religion, but like Nisargadatta would say:'there's not even a need to name it since it doesn't need to be called, it's closer to us than even our body"

Often times we forget we are talking about a part of us, the real, the essential. The names given throughout the ages is paricular to the age and the people of the time, and there are no arguments in the truth. Each experience is unique, yet uderlying it all is the truth.

Those who create religions and defend it as if it's their invention miss the point entirely.

"know the truth and the truth shall set you free"

[BlackBillBlake]

The island of the tonal was what DJ was talking about when Carlos continued to add items to the table.

Anything you can visulalise, imagine, talk about and even dream about is within the island.

Island means surounded by water, limited, with beginning and end.

The Nawal is beyond that. Subconcious or collective unconcious would be proper terms to use but people tend to think that by those terms they actually "know" the thing. Unconcious means actually that. There is a reality beyond the island of the concious. I have my reality right now, can you enter my reality? of course not.
To you my island is outside in the Nagual, and viceversa.

The world you imagine to yourself be in, is the scope of your imagination only.

"the real world" is outside of that college or outside that sensual and mental collage of the tonal or concious mind.
Can't be the collective unconscious/subconscious because that again is simply another item 'on the table' ie part of the tonal.

[sylvanlightning]

Recapitulation


Recapitulation is a technique used to regain energy lost in the world. It is a technique associated with stalking [cc6, Florindas chapter], but it is very important to dreamers as well [cc9]. The basic premises (axioms about the world) on which the theory behind recapitulation is based is as follows:

1. By acting and interacting in the world a person binds up alot of energy. There is an exchange of energy between people, and this locks up alot of energy. The greatest source of such energy expenditure is in sexual encounters.
2. This locked up energy can be restored by a special technique called recapitulating.

This is, however, not the only explanation/reason to why one should recapitulate. Another reason given in 'The Eagles Gift' [cc6] is that recapitulation is a key to freedom given to every living creature. The Eagle is, according to what Castaneda tells us, the force in universe from which everything emanates. Awareness is given to to us from the Eagle, and when we die our awareness returns to the source and are 'consumed'. By recapitulating our lives, the Eagle may accept this as a substitute for our awareness. The Eagle only wants our life experiences. This is called "the Eagles gift". Victor Sanchez draws the conclusion that the 'seeing ones life passing before ones eyes', reported by people believing they are about to die, is the natural form of recapitulation [The Teachings of don Carlos]. Castaneda says that when we die, we enter, for a short moment, into the third awareness to be cleaned, before the Eagle consumes us.

Recapitulation also serves the purpose of making one aware of the routines and patterns of ones life.

The Technique

The technique is described in a number of places, and there actually seems to be different descriptions in different places. There have even been some diversity between the team around Castaneda about the direction of the 'fanning' movement of the head.

The clearest description in my opinion is the one in 'Art of Dreaming', chapter eight 'The Third Gate of Dreaming' [cc9, p148]:

" Don Juan had given me very detailed and explicit instructions about the recapitulation. It consisted of reliving the totality of one's life experiences by remembering every possible minute detail of them. He saw the recapitulation as the essential factor in a dreamer's redefinition and redeployment of energy. "The recapitulation sets free energy imprisoned within us, and without this liberated energy dreaming is not possible." That was his statement.

Years before, don Juan had coached me to make a list of all the people I had met in my life, starting at the present. He helped me to arrange my list in an orderly fashion, breaking it down into areas of activity, such as jobs I had had, schools I had attended. Then he guided me to go, without deviation, from the first person on my list to the last one, reliving every one of my interactions with them. He explained that recapitulating an event starts with one's mind arranging everything pertinent to what is being recapitulated. Arranging means reconstructing the event, piece by piece, starting by recollecting the physical details of the surroundings, then going to the person with whom one shared the interaction, and then going to oneself, to the examination of one's feelings.

Don Juan taught me that the recapitulation is coupled with a natural, rhythmical breathing. Long exhalations are performed as the head moves gently and slowly from right to left; and long inhalations are taken as the head moves back from left to right. He called this act of moving the head from side to side "fanning the event." The mind examines the event from beginning to end while the body fans, on and on, everything the mind focuses on. Don Juan said that the sorcerers of antiquity, the inventors of the recapitulation, viewed breathing as a magical, life-giving act and used it, accordingly, as a magical vehicle; the exhalation, to eject the foreign energy left in them during the interaction being recapitulated and the inhalation to pull back the energy that they themselves left behind during the interaction."
-The Art of Dreaming

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/5418/practices/recapitulation.html

[sylvanlightning]

The Unknowable is that part of the unknown that cannot be known.

Castaneda divides the universe into three major parts; the Known, the Unknown and the Unknowable. The difference between the Unknown and the Unknowable is that the Unknown may at some point be known, but the Unknowable, on the other hand, is utterly beyond our capacities as humans.

[sylvanlightning]

"Sometime in 1998, on a not-so unusual evening, my computer, once booting it up, seemed to explode in a dance of light and sound - my email had been inundated with the news that the famous author of 'The Teachings of Don Juan', Carlos Castaneda, had leaped into the abyss, never to return. The general response to his final passing, the commencement of his 'definitive-journey', was an ecstatic celebration: his work, it had been said, was finally complete. My feelings were mixed. Castaneda had been a close 'literary friend', a quasi-spiritual companion who, through his many books, made me aware that all things are indeed possible. The 'warrior-traveller' had moved on, and it was rumoured that his last book, ~The Active Side of Infinity~ was on the way.

It has been four years, and for a variety of reasons, I never got around to reading it, but finally did last week. To be sure, this last installment ranks, in my mind, as one of his best. This is the last in a long line of texts concerning Castaneda's appreticeship as a sorcerer, working under the tutelage of Don Juan Matus - a 'nagual' of mystery, power and hilarious wit. Don Juan has to be one of the most interestiing characters of the twentieth century. And to finally meet him again in ~Infinity~ was certainly a pleasure.

~Infinity~ has to be the most accessible of all Castaneda's books. We can almost categorize it as being his last will and testament before his final exit into infinity - an effort to pay off his spiritual debts as a warrior-traveller, recapitulating (Don Juan's term) memorable events and relationships in his life that changed his path or had, either consciously or not, affected or had a profound significance in his life as a sorcerer. The book is a collection of Castaneda's memories, intense and not so, that through re-living would prepare him for the 'definitive-journey' into the abyss. Death is the central theme in ~Infinity~, communicating the importance of preparing oneself for the unavoidable end we all must embark upon...

I was reminded of Carl Jung, the famous Swiss psychiatrist who, in the last years of his life, always had 'The Tibetan Book of the Dead' on his night stand, referring to it before falling to sleep. This was Jung's way of preparing himself for the definitive journey. Castaneda, though, through re-living the past, sought-out some of the more significant people in his life, and made a practical attempt to set things right. This made a lot of sense to me on many levels.

To suggest to new readers of Castaneda to begin with ~Infinity~ would be, in my mind, a disservice. My advice would be to start from the beginning with 'The Teachings of Don Juan' and move on from there...one's appreciation of the entire philosophy will be much deeper as a result. That said, however, ~Infinity~ could well be a good starting point, because as I mentioned before, it's the most accessible of the canon."

from: Amazon.com

[BlackBillBlake]

It is definitely best to start with the first book. 'the teachings of Don Juan' and read them in order. Otherwise I think one would miss very much. I began reading them as they were being released, and hence saw the story unfolding.

Although, as I've made clear enough, I don't think any of this is a record of real events and people, I do think the books are a good read, and they at least challenge orthodox and limited ideas about what reality is. They are also extremely funny in places, and very well written.
I think I have really said enough on this thread - those who believe in Don Juan and that these books offer any kind of path that is actually capable of being pursued will doubtless continue to believe - and the same for disbelievers.

Best wishes to all.

[Hari]

Can't be the collective unconscious/subconscious because that again is simply another item 'on the table' ie part of the tonal.
Once you think you have grasped anything, it becomes an item on the table. I dared to give it the name collective unconcious, because to me that applies as well as the name nawall. The fact is that you can call it peanut butter, as long as you know it is beyond be known. The nawal knows everything , but it cannot be known, contains all, but cannot be contained.
It is a priviledge to even talk about it.

We can discuss outer space and even the depht of the ocean, but do we really graps its magnitude?
The frog thinks the ocean is just another larger
pond, and cannot expand his imagination to perceive how much large it actually is.

This is the limitation of our imagination as well, we think we have imagined it right, but we really haven't.

[Hari]

Although, as I've made clear enough, I don't think any of this is a record of real events and people, I do think the books are a good read, and they at least challenge orthodox and limited ideas about what reality is. to believe - and the same for disbelievers.

Best wishes to all.

If one does not believe that events recorded in modern times, not by a writer but by a university student, with dates and locations known to us, with no more motive than to fulfill one's duty as in the case of Carlos; what would make that same person believe any fantastic story written 2,000 or 6,000 year ago as in the case of Christ and /or Krishna?

I have to admit that once I hear rumors my mind begins to believe these rumors, but then I see more interest in those who would debase a fantastic story of power, than those who themselves participted in it.

The protagonists of such stories have already gained all they needed to gain, its is up to us to believe unless the writer himself says it's pure fiction; because we have much more to lose by not believing.

We lose our child-like quality and even our chance to enter a much larger world, than the one "the man" is trying to sell to us.

Peace.

[BlackBillBlake]

If one does not believe that events recorded in modern times, not by a writer but by a university student, with dates and locations known to us, with no more motive than to fulfill one's duty as in the case of Carlos; what would make that same person believe any fantastic story written 2,000 or 6,000 year ago as in the case of Christ and /or Krishna?

I have to admit that once I hear rumors my mind begins to believe these rumors, but then I see more interest in those who would debase a fantastic story of power, than those who themselves participted in it.

The protagonists of such stories have already gained all they needed to gain, its is up to us to believe unless the writer himself says it's pure fiction; because we have much more to lose by not believing.

We lose our child-like quality and even our chance to enter a much larger world, than the one "the man" is trying to sell to us.

Peace.
Just two points - Carlos made a lot of money out of this - these books were million sellers. And how could you possibly know that he was simply 'doing his duty' ? Since his death, they continue to generate money for his publishers, along with Carlos' other projects.
As for dates and times known to us - they could equally be fabricated, and certainly are not verifiable, if thats what you are suggesting.
If we have much to loose by not believing Castaneda, it is hard to say what, other than a certain gulibility.

[Hari]

Carlos was merely recording the events and Don Juan's instructions verbatim. He would've taped it, but Don Juan thought that he would not be paying attention then.

He had no idea what to do with so many notes, so Don Juan told him to put it all into a book.
I'm sure Carlos had not intention of making money out of this since his main concern at the time was being a good antroplogy student,and doing his task the best way he could. He was not looking for aprenticeship, nor anything occult, nor
gaining fame nor wealth. If he had been looking for that he would've been disqualified as a "crackpot".

That the books became acclaimed best sellers and that money was paid for them, and that millions of people read them, was an arrangement of the spirit, the Nawal, God, Krishna, collective un concious or a Rose by any other name.

Being"gullible" as you put it, is an esential quality to enter the kingdom of heaven as Jesus would put it; and Paul would say "love believeth all things".
To "live in the world and not be of the world" is to be aware of the weapons of the world, of which disbelief is the greatest; but of course, if you have succumbed to it wholleheartedly, then you are already on that side, and working to promote the conciousness of doubt and skepticism as the new religion. I have to admit is is too late for some, and turning back it's impossible. This was last the intention of the nawal before this dark times.

Maybe (?) those books were the last call of the spirit to get some people to keep believing in magic and wonder, but not as an escape, but actually as an exit.

[BlackBillBlake]

Carlos was merely recording the events and Don Juan's instruction verbatim, he would've recorded
it but Don Juan thought that he would not be paying attention then. He had no idea what to do with so many notes, so Don Juan told him to write book. I'm sure Carlos had not intention of making money out of this since his main concern at the time was being a good antroplogy student.

That the books became acclaimed best sellers and that money was paid for them, and that millions of people read them, was an arrangement of the spirit, the nawal, God, Krishna, collective un concious or a Rose by any other name.
But how do you know that Carlos had no intention of making money? For all I know, it may have been his primary motive in setting pen to paper.
Also, its simply isn't the case that there is any equivalence between the Nagual and the collective unconscious, Krishna or anything else you can name. That is the entire point of what DJ tells him. All those are part of the tonal.

[Hari]

But how do you know that Carlos had no intention of making money? For all I know, it may have been his primary motive in setting pen to paper.
Also, its simply isn't the case that there is any equivalence between the Nagual and the collective unconscious, Krishna or anything else you can name. That is the entire point of what DJ tells him. All those are part of the tonal.
It's silly arguing this, since you keep failing to see the big picture. If Carlos would've been interested in merely money and fame *obvious he wasn't since he eluded the spotlight* first of all what would he be doing somewhere strange and unfamiliar talking to an old unknown indian about plants. This was 1968 and the idea about a shaman talking esoteric stuff wasn't exactly a hotsale item. You say you read the books as they were being published, which says you lived through that era. The occult wasn't exactly what people gathered atound to talk about while smoking a joint.

After the first bok was published, obviously
Carlos became a famous writer, but the image we get of him is one of total reluctance to keep going, but compelled to do it for unknown reasons.

In the same way that no one looking to be kidnapped by an alien gets an encounter, people desiring to be taught shamanism are not exactly the ones qualified. Don Juan explained that too, saying that once the training gets tough they quit and that's why he calls them crackpots, becuse they can't hold water.
I underwent several situations similar to that, and at no point was I searching for it, it sort of chooses you, and you go along till you can't stand it anymore, or you get hooked to it, or feel there's nowhere else to turn, and your average life seems completly pointless, so you keep going.

In the eighties people wanted to go to the desert to find Don Juan now that he was a symbol of fame, and maybe those who tried foolishly enough came back frustrated and started the wholle conspiracy against Carlos. The fact is that it doesn't matter. It is the individual that benefits by believing anything, not the nawals.

The name give to people who have double auras or different from the average person is nawal, but the overal nawal is a different thing, yet from another perspective it includes the collective unconcious, and all individuals.

Borrowing ideas from Carlos's ("a warrior feels the force") books and from Joseph Campbell, George Lucas put some of hose ideas on the screen in 1977, and when I saw it I was really shocked since in those days no one was going around talking about this.

What I was surprised to read was the NY times claiming Carlos "the godfather of the new age movement", but of course I think he deserves it.
There will those who are jeoulous and that too is to be expected.

[BlackBillBlake]

All this is ok, but as I say, you only assume that CC was not motivated primarily by money. The 'elusiveness' all part of the show. There is no way anyone can know what Carlos motives were, other than speculation.

But it is pointless to continue like this.
As I said before, believers will believe and others not. Myself I think its fiction with only entertainment value.

[Hari]

All this is ok, but as I say, you only assume that CC was not motivated primarily by money. The 'elusiveness' all part of the show. There is no way anyone can know what Carlos motives were, other than speculation.

But it is pointless to continue like this.
As I said before, believers will believe and others not. Myself I think its fiction with only entertainment value. Then obviously that's all you'll ever get out of the books. For me they altered my life radically and eventually I did spend some time with real teachers. In the end what you believe changes you.

[Cloudminerva]

Castaneda has some great writing. I really want to get my hands on more material from the man. The wisdom of the Native Americans and the Spanish Indians is my favorite alongside Eastern wisdom.


Peace,
Ben.

[Hari]

Castaneda has some great writing. I really want to get my hands on more material from the man. The wisdom of the Native Americans and the Spanish Indians is my favorite alongside Eastern wisdom.


Peace,
Ben. Unfortunatedly no one can talk like Don Juan or write and edit as Carlos could so beware of peaceful warriors imitations.(on the same subject)
There are about seven books by Carlos out, so there's much to be read.

When The eagle's gift came out, and others where Don Juan wasn't as much, I was displeased at first, but then I saw that even the stories of the other warriors are so humorous and daring, so I had to like them too. I haven't opened those books in years, but just the same... they are not lost.

[BlackBillBlake]

Castaneda has some great writing. I really want to get my hands on more material from the man. The wisdom of the Native Americans and the Spanish Indians is my favorite alongside Eastern wisdom.


Peace,
Ben.
A true classic of native american spirituality, which is definitely authentic, is John G. Niehart's 'black Elk Speaks' - the personal stoty of a holy man of the oglaga sioux during the late 19th c. It describes not only many of Black Elk's visions, but also his part in the battle of little big horn, and the aftermath of wounded knee. Highly recommend this.

[sylvanlightning]

Thought this post would bring some new enjoyment.
Bright Blessings ~*

Vladimir Antonov
The Teaching of Juan Matus

Translated by T. Danilevich



Today we are going to continue with reviewing schools of buddhi-yoga. We are already familiar with the trends of buddhi-yoga in Chinese Taoist Alchemy, Moslem Sufism, Tibetan Buddhism, Indian school of Rajneesh, and in our school. In this discourse I will discuss the school of buddhi-yoga founded by Mexican Indians, the most prominent leader of whom was Juan Matus.

This school was described in detail by Carlos Castaneda—our contemporary from Los Angeles. The books of his that we know of were published during the period between 1966 and 1987. These are 8 books of Castaneda, which were translated into Russian by volunteers: "The Teaching of don Juan", "A Separate Reality", "Journey to Ixtlan", "Tales of Power", "The Second Ring of Power", "The Eagle's Gift", "The Fire from Within", "The Power of Silence". We also know the book by D.C.Noel "Seeing Castaneda", which contains interviews with him. The overall volume of these books in typewritten form exceeds 2000 pages.

It must be noted right away that in his books Castaneda describes the period of his relationship with don Juan that lasted for about three decades. Over this period it was not only Castaneda who advanced in his development, but also don Juan himself. Reading Castaneda's books one can see both the early and the later personal spiritual quest of don Juan, which was not free from mistakes. This is why the spiritual concept of the school must be evaluated not based on what don Juan spoke and did over these decades, but on what he attained by the end of his earthly life.

I want to note that this discourse of mine is not meant to retell the books of Castaneda, but to provide systematization of the knowledge presented in them from the standpoint of methodology of spiritual development.

So, the future author of bestsellers about the school of Juan Matus, Carlos Castaneda was an undergraduate student at the University of Southern California, Los Angeles, majoring in ethnography. He was collecting material for his dissertation paper, so he went to Mexico in order to study the experience of Indians of that area in using medicinal plants. Upon arrival to Mexico with his car he started searching for people competent in this issue. He was introduced to an Indian, whose name was Juan Matus and who agreed to provide Castaneda with the data he needed free of charge.

So, they got acquainted and their joint work began. In due course Castaneda found out that don Juan possesses not only knowledge about qualities of plants, but also the ancient art of the Toltec Indians’ sorcery. Moreover, don Juan turned out to be a sorcerer himself. For the first time in his life, Castaneda came across the things that were absolutely beyond the bounds of his usual secular and religious notions. So, lizards appeared able of speaking in human voices, people could fly with their bodies, extract various things "out of nowhere", and so on. Castaneda found himself captivated by all this and also increasingly interested as a scientist in this new, for him, area of knowledge.

Once don Juan invited Castaneda to a meeting where his associates were taking self-made psychedelics. Castaneda tried them as well. And then occurred that, which for the first time made don Juan to look at Castaneda as a potential adept of his school.

Don Juan was a mystic and he perceived the whole world in a mystic way. In particular, he attached great importance to so called "signs" coming to him from the "separate reality".

What happened is that Castaneda, upon swallowing a few pills of peyote started playing a strange game with a dog. They began to urinate on each other... It was the dog's behavior, which was absolutely unusual for a dog, that had significance there. It was interpreted by don Juan as a sign from God (Who was referred to as Power in this school) indicating the significance of non-Indian Castaneda for the school. Since that moment Castaneda became a full member of the party (that is, the group) of don Juan's disciples. And don Juan started to gradually initiate him into the secret knowledge of his school.

So what was the conceptual outlook of the school?

The whole world consists of two parallel worlds, the first of which is called the "tonal" (that is, the world of material things) and the second—the "nagual" (the non-material world).

We communicate with the world of matter through the so-called "first attention", i.e. that carried out through the sense organs of physical body.

So that to become able of cognizing the nagual, one has to develop the "second attention", that is, clairvoyance.

There is also the "third attention", by means of which one perceives the Supreme Purusha (Sanskrit), that is the Creator—Ishvara, and His Radiance, which don Juan referred to as the "Fire".

According to mythology shared by don Juan's predecessors, the world is governed by the universal divine Eagle. This was their notion of God. However fantastic it seems, it is monotheistic.

This Eagle feeds on souls that leave human bodies. But the Eagle also confers the chance on some people to "skip" past his beak after their death and to obtain immortality, provided that during their lives they acquired skills necessary for this and developed their consciousness to the due degree, accumulated the required amount of power of their consciousness and the ability to act with it in the multidimensional world.

This concept contained a frightening element, which was supposed to force a person to make efforts on self-perfection. But, like Jesus Christ, don Juan strongly opposed this attitude towards God, which was based on fear. He said that in order to approach God, one has to take the "path with heart"—that is the path of Love. It is interesting that don Juan arrived at this understanding independently of the influence of other spiritual traditions. He was not familiar with the Teaching of either Krishna or Jesus Christ, nor has he ever read Sufi or Taoist books. It is evident that he did not read the New Testament; otherwise he would quote it for sure.

At the basis of the don Juan's school’s methodology of man's self-perfection there were three principles: Love, Knowledge, and Power (though these terms are not found in Castaneda's books).

A person who resolved to lay claim to immortality, first, has to become a "hunter". But not that hunter who kills game, but that for knowledge, who walks the "path of heart"—caring, loving both Earth and beings that live on it.

Having mastered the stage of "hunter", he can then become a "warrior"—that is the one who "traces" Power (God), striving to "stalk" and cognize It.

Don Juan taught Castaneda and his other apprentices often while walking in the desert and the mountains—in most natural conditions of direct contact with the multiform world that surrounds us.

For instance, once they caught a wild rabbit. Don Juan knew that this rabbit's life on Earth was coming to an end, according to his destiny. And he suggested that Castaneda killed this rabbit with his own hands. Castaneda exclaimed, ‘I cannot do this!’. Don Juan objected, ‘But you have killed animals before!’. Castaneda replied, ‘But I killed them with my rifle, from a distance, without having to see them die...’

Castaneda refused to commit killing, for the first time he questioned his ethic right to do this, he thought of the sufferings of the creature being killed.

However, the rabbit died by himself before Castaneda's eyes, because the time of his stay on Earth had really run out.

Once don Juan and Castaneda were walking down the street and saw a snail crossing the road. And don Juan used this example to explain the philosophy of the role of a person in the destinies of other creatures.

In such a way Castaneda, who at the beginning was very proud of his being a learned and civilized person, became increasingly convinced that true wisdom belongs not to him, but to the old Indian, a great spiritual aspirant and Teacher, who lived a life of a hunter and a warrior in harmony with the world around him.

After his disciples had mastered basics of ethics and wisdom, don Juan would proceed to teaching them psychoenergetic methods.

It should be noted here that only a very limited number of students were enrolled into the don Juan's school. A criterion of selection was the level of development of the energy structures of the organism—chakras. Of course, Indians did not use such words as chakras and dantyans. But they spoke of segments in the energy "cocoon" of man. And only disciples with developed chakras were considered to be promising and able to withstand the path of a hunter and warrior.

So, those enrolled in the school had a big experience in psychoenergetic work acquired in their previous lives on Earth. That is, they were ready for serious work from the psychoenergetical standpoint. This allowed them to start psychoenergetic training not with cleansing and developing of meridians and chakras, as it is done, for example, in our school, but immediately with development of the major power structure of the organism—hara (the lower dantyan).

When the work with hara was completed, the next stage followed: the division of the "cocoon" into two parts: the upper and the lower "bubbles of perception". Why "bubbles"?—Because these parts of the "cocoon" seen by means of clairvoyance look like swimming bladders of some kinds of fish. Why "of perception"?—Because one can perceive the tonal and the nagual from them, respectively.

Division of the "cocoon" into two "bubbles of perception" was regarded as an important transitional step to further stages of psychoenergetic self-perfection. And one had to master concentration of consciousness in both "poles" of the "cocoon" in such a way.

Further work was performed in order to develop the lower "bubble of perception". But it was commenced only after the consciousness had been properly refined, or, as it was called in the don Juan's school, after the luminosity of the "cocoon" had been cleansed.

That is, as in all other advanced spiritual schools, the techniques aimed at the refining of consciousness preceded the large-scale process of its "crystallization". However, Castaneda does not describe methods of "cleansing the luminosity" except the one, which can be viewed rather as a joke, namely—inhaling the smoke of a campfire.

Due to the refining of consciousness and the work with the lower "bubble of perception", disciples attained the state of Nirvana (though they were not acquainted with this term). First, they mastered the static variation of Nirvana in Brahman, and after this—the dynamic one.

Once don Juan clapped Castaneda on the back with his palm (he often used this technique so that to shift the "assemblage point", that is the zone of distribution of the disciple’s consciousness)—and Castaneda, prepared for this by preceding exercises, entered the static variation of Nirvana. At that moment he for the first time experienced the state of deep peace, for the first time he perceived God, he perceived that God is indeed Love. But suddenly he heard don Juan's voice who was saying that this state was, though fine—not that, to which he had to aspire now. He had to advance further! “Do not think that this is the limit of your abilities...” With these words don Juan called on Castaneda, who had cognized the supreme bliss of Nirvana not to "get attached" to it, but to keep on going further... At first, Castaneda got offended and angry at don Juan, but the latter was unbending: further advance is necessary!..

[sylvanlightning]

And what is further? Further is the dynamic aspect of Nirvana when "crystallized" consciousness is active within the bounds of Brahmanic dimension. In this state one can touch with his consciousness any being within the bounds of Earth and around it; everything that is required—just information about this being.

Then disciples of Juan Matus also mastered the state of Nirodhi, known in all developed schools of buddhi-yoga. This state don Juan also described in endemic terms, which were specific to his school. Disciples were taught that there exist energy waves, which are constantly rolling on all living creatures, and from which we are shielded by our "cocoons". And that there is a possibility to use the power of these waves so as to transfer oneself into the unknown worlds with their help. These unknown worlds are other spatial dimensions. To make it happen, the "rolling force” had to be allowed to flood the "cocoon". Then a person turned into "nothing", his "I" died.

And it s is only after attaining the state of disappearance in Brahman that it became possible to cognize the "Fire"—the Radiance of Ishvara—and disappear in Ishvara forever, having conquered one's death.

It should be noted that with the help of the "Fire" it is possible to master dematerialization of one's physical body. This is what Juan Matus and his companions performed.

So, we have considered principal stages of work in the buddhi-yoga school of Juan Matus. They turn out to be common for all school of buddhi-yoga, regardless of the location of these schools on Earth’s surface, whether they are connected with each other or not, as well as the languages spoken in these schools and the terms used by them. This is so due to the fact that it is according to the same laws that God guides the people who devoted their lives to Him.

And now, let us consider in detail the specific methods of work in the school of Juan Matus—which have been described by Castaneda in detail and which we can apply to ourselves.

They can be divided into two groups: preliminary and basic ones.

The first of the preliminary methods is the "recapitulation". In essence, this is the same as penance, which is one of the major practices in all major religions. Disciples had to —mainly in seclusion that lasted several days—recall all the mistakes they had made in their lives, and to re-live those situations anew, this time correctly. So that disciples had more "personal interest" in this very hard work, they were told that during "recapitulation" they would regain the energy wasted as a result of their incorrect emotional reactions. The quality of penitential work did not deteriorate because of this trick, since its major goal—to learn to react in the ethically correct way and to avoid sin—was achieved with due efforts.

They also had to destroy the feeling of “self-importance" and “self-pity"—as those qualities that result in the tremendous waste of the person's energy. Indeed, if one views himself so too important and someone else encroaches on this importance with their disrespectful attitude, the person reacts with emotional discharge of resentment, anger, and so forth. In this process the energy of the organism is intensively wasted.

Here is an interesting and instructive fact of the Castaneda's biography: when his study in don Juan's school came to an end, he and his closest companion, la Gorda—though Castaneda became a millionaire after his books had been published and they could lead a life free from material limitations—got hired under other people’s names as servants in the house of a rich man and suffered humiliations from rudeness and treachery of other servants. They resorted to this in order to completely destroy the feeling of “self-importance", to erase their own "personal history” from their memories—so that to attain humility. Truly, everything that happens to a warrior on the physical plane, as Castaneda put it—does not matter, the only thing that matters is the state of his consciousness.

Indeed, it is of no importance compared to the Supreme Goal! And what is of principal significance is the ability to be naught, the ability not to protect oneself when someone is unjust to one, but to be protected—so taught don Juan. And the state of being protected comes only when "there is no myself", when there is only God.

One of the most essential preparatory elements of work in the school of Juan Matus was "sweeping of the tonal", which corresponds to observance of aparigraha in the ethics of Hindu yoga.

We have already discussed don Juan's wise ability to explain most complicated philosophical matters in an easy to understand manner using natural examples from the everyday life. This time he did the same, explaining this principle to his disciples.

Once don Juan assembled his disciples, took a sack and put into it the radio, the tape recorder and several other things that he found in the house of one of them, then he put the sack on that man's back, put a table on another disciple's back and took them to the mountains. In the middle of the valley he told them to put the table down and emptied the contents of the sack onto it. Then he took the disciples away and offered them to say what they saw?

They started to tell that they see a radio set... and so on and so forth...

Then don Juan came to the table and whisked all the things off from it. ‘Take another look and tell me what you see now?’—he said. Only then disciples understood don Juan: he wanted them to see not only the things on the table, but the table itself, and moreover,—the space around the table. But the things on the table prevented them from seeing this by drawing their attention to themselves.

In this way don Juan demonstrated to his disciples that in order to cognize the nagual, and then also—God, one has to cleanse the tonal around oneself.

Perhaps, it would be appropriate to recall the example of observance of the same principle in the history of Christianity: beside icons and a few books monks had a coffin in their cells, in which they slept, so that to constantly remember of their inevitable death, which urges those who remember about it to intensify their spiritual efforts.

Also, don Juan taught to destroy stiff patterns of material life, as for instance, strict observance of one’s routines. For what purpose? In order to attain freedom. This is one of those steps that we have to make so that to finally "undress" our souls, shedding all casings and that armors that we imposed on it ourselves. Only when we can "undress" in such a way that we can carry out the precept of Jesus Christ: that one has to worship God-Spirit, Universal Divine Consciousness "in spirit", that is, with one's consciousness, which is free of bondage, open, and liberated.

Destruction of unreasonable patterns of behavior, thinking, and reacting, inculcated in the process of upbringing by traditions and morality, should result in the "loss of human form", that is, attaining the state when a person learns to act not according to his reflexes or because it is customary to act so, but in accordance with objective expediency. The "loss of human form" is not a short-term mechanic action, as some disciples of don Juan fantasized, but a prolonged process, accompanying the man's gradual approaching God. This process comes to an end when an aspirant learns to look at all situations with the eyes of the Creator.

But attaining the "loss of human form" does not mean in the least that a person starts to behave "not like everyone else" in the society, because, firstly, inevitable conflicts with other people would prevent him from fulfilling his main duty. Secondly, the conduct, which is “defiant” by form, in many cases turns out to be a breach of the basic laws of objective ethics—the non-harming of other living beings. This is why disciples were prescribed to observe conventional norms of behavior, sometimes secretly ridiculing them and resorting to the so-called "controlled folly".

To illustrate this, don Juan once astounded Castaneda by taking off his usual Indian garment and putting on an immaculate European suit during his trip to the town.

In connection with this, don Juan also taught his disciples to talk to people in the language that they can understand. So, once he and Castaneda were sitting on the bench near the Catholic church and saw how two not too old ladies, after coming out from the church were too hesitant to descend a few steps. Then don Juan elegantly jumped up to them, helped them go down, and advised them that in case some time in the future they fall, they should by no means move until the doctor arrives. The ladies were sincerely grateful to him for this piece of advice.

The next most essential methodical technique is remembering about one's own death. The majority of people today are accustomed to fighting the thought of their death. And even when we come across facts of passing away of other people we by no means try to imagine ourselves in their place. We assure ourselves that even if this is going to happen to us, it is still very long time ahead.

But, if each of us asks himself now: "When will I die?"—the dates will be very far-off, although theoretically everyone knows that people die at any age.

So, don Juan suggests that we imagine that our personified death is always by our side. And if one looks back quickly over the left shoulder—one can spot it as a shade that has flashed. ‘At the moment, death is sitting next to you on the same mat, waiting for your mistake’ — he said to Castaneda. And no one is aware of the moment when he is going to die, that is why we should not have any unfinished affairs in one’s life.

Below is what don Juan said about death.

“…How can anyone feel so important when we know that death is stalking us?

… The thing to do when you're impatient is to turn to your left and ask advice from your death. An immense amount of pettiness is dropped if your death makes a gesture to you, or if you catch a glimpse of it, or if you just have the feeling that your companion is there watching you.

Death is the …wise adviser that we have… One… has to ask death’s advice and drop the cursed pettiness that belongs to men that live their lives as if death will never tap them.

If you do not think of your death, all your life will be just personal chaos.

(A warrior) knows his death is stalking him and won't give him time to cling to anything… And thus with an awareness of his death,… and with the power of his decisions a warrior sets his life in a strategical manner… and what he chooses is always strategically the best; and so he performs everything he has to with gusto and lusty efficiency.

Life for a warrior is an exercise in strategy.

Without the awareness of death everything is ordinary, trivial. It is only because death is stalking us that the world is an unfathomable mystery.

You have little time and no time for crap. A wonderful state! The best of us always comes out when we are against the wall, when we feel the sword dangling overhead. …I wouldn't have it any other way.”



Another most essential aspect of the work with disciples was mastering the "mental pause" or, in other words, stoppage of "internal dialogue" (the first term is preferable whereas besides "internal dialogues" there are also "internal monologues").

This is an absolutely necessary prerequisite for mastering the nagual, because the nagual is mastered by means of meditation, and meditation, as Rajneesh put it nicely, is the state of "non-mind". That is, so that to learn to immerse one's consciousness into the nagual one has to learn to stop, to switch off the mind.

For the purpose of attaining the "mental pause" don Juan employed the following techniques:

1. Psychedelics. But it should be noted that, firstly, don Juan used this method only at the very beginning of their joint work and later he gave it up. Secondly, Castaneda complained afterwards that though he was immensely grateful to don Juan for everything that he had done for him, but nonetheless his (Castaneda's) liver was still marked with scars. Hence, it is absolutely unadvisable to follow his example as to using psychedelics, all the more so, because there are other, far more effective and harmless means of mastering the "mental pause" at our disposal.

2. "Gazing". One had to look at some object for long time and in fixed manner, for example, at a ravine, flowing water, and so on. As a result the "first attention" got exhausted and switched off leaving room for the "second attention".

3. Prolonged suspension of one's body on devices like a swing.

The training mentioned above resulted in attaining the state that in Chinese is called yoga "wu-wei"—"not-doing", that is being inactive on the physical plane, when one's mind ("manas", in Sanskrit) stops and an opportunity for directed meditation, for activity of consciousness (in Sanskrit, buddhi), arises.

Manas and buddhi are in reciprocal relations: they cannot act simultaneously, at a given point in time either one or the other operates. (That does not mean that a person without a body or in the state of meditation looses reason. No. Developed "crystallized" consciousness can think. But it thinks in another way, not in the “earthly” manner).

And one more unique technique that was developed in this school by don Juan's predecessors: intentional interaction with people-tyrants. The technique was employed for attainment of "faultlessness of warrior", that is the ability to follow ethical principles and adhere to strategy of objectively valid behavior in situations of urgency. Some time in the past don Juan himself was sent by his teacher to a fierce overseer-tyrant for such a training. In Mexico such ones were considered to be very rare and to find one was regarded a big luck by warriors.

Now we shall list the methods of psychoenergetic work used in the don Juan's school:

1. Cleansing of the inner luminosity (i.e. the refining of consciousness).

2. Employment of "places of power" (of which we spoke in a separate lecture).

3. "Dreaming", which was given much attention. What is this? Many people, having read Castaneda's books, try to use their night sleep for this purpose, and without success. No, this is not the way it must be done. "Dreaming" is the synonym of the word “meditation”. Due to being unfamiliar with the terms commonly accepted in other countries, Central American Indians had to find their own words to denote some key techniques, phenomena, and objects of spiritual practice. This is how the term "dreaming" was born, since meditative images sometimes really bear similarity to the images one sees in one’s dreams.

Special training in "dreaming" allowed disciples, getting detached from body, to run on the walls, climb along energy beams (the "lines of the world"), and so on.

4.Learning to act in extremal magic situations, created by the preceptor on purpose. For this purpose, ethical vices of disciples were used. For example, when a disciple still had an inclination towards selfish attacks on other people, he was suggested to take part in a deliberately losing magic fight, which turned out beneficial for all its participants.

5. The technique of shifting the "assemblage point" as a result of energetic impact of the preceptor (this was called "the nagual’s blow"; the term "nagual" had another meaning in this case: a leader who has mastered the nagual and is capable of acting in it and from it).

6. "Practice of meditative leveling-off of energetic "emanations" inside the "cocoon" in accordance with outer "emanations" of the highest spatial dimensions.

7. Work with hara aimed at developing the power aspect.

8. Employment of "allies" (that is, spirits). This was done in two variants.

The first one—the "taming" of spirits who had to, according to the plan, become assistants and protectors of a sorcerer. Both don Juan and his friend Genaro had such "allies" in the beginning of their spiritual quest.

But all must be warned that this is an erroneous and dangerous practiced, which one in no way should try imitating. By the way, both don Juan and Genaro themselves gave up this practice later on.

The other variant of the work with "allies" consisted in hunting them. No wonder that such tendency was created by Indians who lived in a constant communion with wildlife. So, disciples were told that at some moment they were sure to come across some "ally" in the male human form who would challenge them to a combat. One can lose in this combat, giving way to fear, but it is also possible to win. In the latter case the warrior acquires the power of that spirit.

And disciples prepared themselves for such a fight, which could take place any moment, by developing alertness (readiness) and other necessary qualities of the warriors.

On the basis of this educational game, disciples performed, in particular, the work for developing the lower "bubble of perception".

To sum up the above said, we will point out basic aspects of this Teaching, which is exceptionally rich in terms of most valuable theoretical and practical elements. Don Juan pointed out three sections in it: a) the art of stalking, b) the art of intent, and c) the art of consciousness.

In the history of the Indian spiritual tradition under consideration the art of stalking initially consisted in the ability to sneak, to stalk unnoticed among the people who do not understand you (that is, people of lower stages of psychogenesis)—and to achieve your Goal.

But afterwards, owing, in particular, to personal contribution of don Juan, this trend was considerably expanded to include also stalking one's own vices. We have discussed this enough. Let me just quote one brilliant formula, given by don Juan: God (in his parlance, Power) provides according to our impeccability. That is, God gives us an opportunity to approach Him, to immerse into increasing happiness of mergence with Him—as we perfect ourselves ethically.

The second section—the art of intent. "Intent" is the same as "aspiration" to the Supreme Goal, or, according to Gurdjieff, the correct "magnetic center". True warrior, in don Juan's sense of the word—is a person with the correctly developed "intent".

The lifestyle of a warrior would bring him to the "totality" of himself, that is, that state that in Indian yoga is called "advaita"—"non-duality", being “non-split” regarding the major and the minor things, the "integrity" in devoting himself only to the Supreme Goal.

The third aspect is the art of consciousness—which is what buddhi-yoga is.

So, we could see once again, that God leads all people who have attained a certain level of maturity in their psychogenesis, irrespective of the country and religious culture they live in, using the unified methodological pattern. We must study these principles and trends and apply them to ourselves and to the people who follow us.



Bibliography:

1. Carlos Castaneda—The Teaching of Don Juan. N.Y., "Pocket books", 1966.
2. Carlos Castaneda—A Separate Reality. N.Y., "Pocket books", 1973.
3. Carlos Castaneda—Journey to Ixtlan. N.Y., "Pocket books", 1976.
4. Carlos Castaneda—Tales of Power. N.Y., "Pocket books", 1978.
5. Carlos Castaneda—The Second Ring of Power. N.Y., "Pocket books", 1980.
6. Carlos Castaneda—The Eagle's Gift. N.Y. "Pocket books", ", 1982.
7. Carlos Castaneda—The Fire From Within. N.Y. "Simon & Schuster", 1984.
8. Carlos Castaneda—The Power of Silence. N.Y. "Simon & Schuster", 1987.
9. Noel D.C.— Seeing Castaneda: Reactions to the "Don Juan" Writings of Carlos Castaneda. N.Y., "Putnam", 1976.
10. Uspensky P.D.—In Search of the Miraculous. N.Y. "Harcourt", 1949.

http://www.swami-center.org/en/text/Juan_Matus.html

[misfit]

I didn't feel like reading all (however many) pages of replies, but I have about 75% or more of Carlos Castanedas collection. To be honest, the further you get into the series, the harder it is to believe. It does make for interesting reading. The Journey to Ixtlan and The Teachings of D.J. are my favs.

[Akasha7]

To be honest, the further you get into the series, the harder it is to believe.
Did this refer to the fact that you know as I do that his books are fiction?

Please, nobody be upset. Give this idea a chance with an open mind --


Some think that's just a slur but it was wonderfully well-researched in a 1976 book I wish I had back - for it was as entertaining as a Castaneda volume, but probably long out-of-print. Anyone know it? The Tricky Trickster wrote his first book in the UCLA library without ever having gone down south. He'd taken a course in Creative Writing, and his wife with others confirmed this. You have to admire the guy's audacity. Once the first book became cult reading (and got him a PhD in anthropology!) and he made a fortune, he kept on going.

The expose demonstrated how the Trickster cunningly wove characters and incidents into his novels which were caricatures of his actual life.

When they came out I meticulously took his first three volumes and broke down the incidents to re-order them in actual chronological order which I wrote out in basically a new book, to get the story more clear when I believed in it as genuine. (For volumes 2 and 3 each revisit the time period of the first, saying 'I've now realised what was going on more deeply'). I just couldn't figure out why the dates and places didn't all add up, with him being in distant places on the same date in different volumes.

If you try his methods, they also don't work. Try the "gait of power" just as described. Hilarious! A friend and I did it for an hour or two as teens and had to start wondering, Wait, this is taking the mick?

The early books are also a play on what he was really doing - he really was the Trickster, and he really had to be secretive. Did anybody ever get a snap of his face? When Penguin and other publishers finally had to accept the truth, his books were no longer categorised as 'anthropology'. Again - gotta take your hat off to him. Great novels, and of course, since a basic core came from the anthropology section of the UCLA library (you can track down the books he used there), there's a gist of truth, yes. Overwhelmingly fiction, as it seems to me he didn't truly understand the shamanic texts and practises he was consulting.

The 1970s expose was thorough I assure you. (Can't off-hand recall title or author, but a lovely read in a style that makes you appreciate the real 'magic' CC pulled off.) But the expose didn't go widely read (I first heard of it in Fortean Times), so the joke goes on, and serious factual books to this date cite him as a source. He has the last laugh.






I couldn't resist a quick search. This book is "Castaneda's Journey" by Richard De Mille, with a whole online summery of it at:

http://www.sustainedaction.org/Explorations/demille_1976_summary.htm (http://www.sustainedaction.org/Explorations/demille_1976_summary.htm)

De Mille also apparently wrote "The Don Juan Papers" in 1980.

There's an account at:
http://www.excludedmiddle.com/castaneda.htm (http://www.excludedmiddle.com/castaneda.htm)

... of CC a few years before his first book - before any Don Juan meeting is supposed to have occurred. He was telling loads of fibs to paint himself as important, trying to ingratiate himself with Timothy Leary, the 60s LSD guru (who smelled a hoax). That will be why the first Carlos book concentrates on drugs - the sixties scene, and Don Juan being a partial charicature of Leary. Under a psuedonym, he tried to persuade Leary then that he was a 'young sorcerer' (let us not forget that he was supposed to be totally naive about sorcery before doing his Ph.D)) but Leary saw through it. His antics seem to derive, maybe, from a troubled childhood.

Maybe CC was more of a sad figure than we know. Almost unable to live within any truths...

Still, the ultimate in anthropology PhDs, huh? Hide in a corner of the library with decent books, having taken a course in fiction writing!

You remember the only significant female in his books? La Catalina? To quote: [Timothy]... "Leary spent (after getting kicked out of Harvard) his time in Mexico at the isolated Hotel 'La Catalina' where he continued his LSD research." This is the hotel where Carlos tried repeatedly to get into the Leary scene years before 'Don Juan'. CC's books are full of these metaphors or in-jokes.

The story seems to be that he was awarded a Ph.D just to get rid of him from UCLA, when the teaching staff realised he'd taken them all in, and this is why he was never offered a teaching post. It was a saving-face tactic by the staff.

It's interesting, huh? And shows why occult/esoteric books can't always be taken at face value.

Akasha

[darrellkitchen]

I haven't read much of this thread yet, only the first page before posting a reply.


As a youth from age 10 up I knew there was something I needed to find outside religion. I sought various avenues while in my teens, Yoga Mediataion, Satanism, Christianity, etc., because I felt there was something I needed, some kind of path I had to search for ... something was missing and I had to find it.

In the Army, I began reading the books of Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda. I read them all, every one that was printed up to that year, 1976. It produced within my own mind the opened door that I was searching for all my life up to that point. But I had not yet found the answers to what I was seeking ... yet.

I recall one evening while still in the Army I had a dream, a vivid dream, a waking dream where I was not even asleep yet, but lying down ready to go to sleep. In this dream I was out in space and before me was this huge ball of light. My first thought on seeing this ball of light was God. I'm seeing God. I felt elated and tingling all over my body, an almost electrical vibration that seemed to emanate from within my own being.

As I stood, floated, there in space looking at this luminus being that I thought was God, I found myself getting closer to it. The closer I came, the larger it became until it filled my entire field of vision, yet it was still a large luminous ball of light. From here, words cannot describe the immense size of this ball of light, yet I was still not near it. I was still approaching it.

The closer I came to this ball of light the more I could see that this ball of light was a mere illusion. It was in fact, an uncountable number of balls of light, each one identical to the others around it, and all looked like the larger ball of light I had first encountered that I thought was God.

From each of the balls of light I saw strands of light emanating from them, reaching out and touching all the other balls of light around them. The strands of light were like beams that shot right out from them like a single stream of photons emanating from ths sun, but with such crystal clarity. It appeared as if these strands of light were alive, solid with life, not exhibiting the behavior of light because I could see them.

I immediately opened my eyes and it was then that I understood God, or the concept of God and the nature of all things around us in relation to this God concept. But my spiritual path did not stop there ... I was still seeking.

But this experience was the beginning of a spiritual path that lead me to where I am now, and I will never forget it.

This was just something I wanted to share that was started by my reading the books of Carols Castaneda. I've also come to realize that Don Juan's intrepretation of the Nagual is somewhat similar to that of Buddhist Nirvana, where description does not apply, and if it did, then Nagual was not achieved.

Darrell

[Akasha7]

Darrell,

Thanks for sharing that! It is, as you may know, what's called a mystical experience. I've encountered some and read of many, but none quite like this one. Possibly we'd find it interesting to have a short dialogue as I have had other such experiences of my own, and written online on the subject. Feel free to PM me.

Akasha

[BlackBillBlake]

Did this refer to the fact that you know as I do that his books are fiction?

Please, nobody be upset. Give this idea a chance with an open mind --


Akasha


Although the view is unpopular, I agree totally. CC's works are imaginative fiction - perhaps inspired initially by psychedelics. I've pointed out some of my thinking in earlier posts to this thread.

[Akasha7]

CC's works are imaginative fiction - perhaps inspired initially by psychedelics. I've pointed out some of my thinking in earlier posts to this thread.
Apologies if I missed more of your views before.

Well, Carlos was chasing after Timothy Leary a few years before he ever wrote the books and before he's ever meant to have met "don Juan". So, though Leary repeatedly threw him out of his hotel, La Catalina ( :) ), we can probably assume that Carlos was indeed interested in that 60s psychedelic scene.

De Mille reports that CC had done that course in 'Creative (i.e. fiction) Writing' earlier, though, so I'd say that must have inspired him as much as anything.

I think we have to go back and look at the real chronology. The FIRST thing Carlos wrote was simply that very boring Ph.D thesis which is at the back of Book 1. It seems that he was only then trying to get a Ph.D and may have had no other plans for all we know. But the UCLA faculty, having given him a Ph.D, suddenly realised they'd been hoodwinked and that no real field research had been done at all. They therefore never gave CC a teaching post. He must have expected one and a career as an anthropologist. So there he was - a very imaginative mind without the job he'd expected. De Mille and others suggest that Carlos then went on to write the bulk of Book 1, "The Teachings..." almost to cock a snoop at the UCLA faculty. But he can never have expected such a global success. Having had that success, of course you write book 2, and 3, and on and on. It's a neat life, writing is fun, and the money must have ROLLED in....

Akasha

[Hari]

Even if all that speculation were true, it does not discount the fact of the existance of true nawalism (like hinduism) exactly as portrayed in the books
The fact is that no true student of nawalism would ever put himself on the spotlight, but in the case of Carlos it was as he wrote, by pure coincidence.
Those who truly 'know, know that coincidences don't exist.
An ignorant man will remain an ignorant man until he has an encounter with knowledge. Those who meditate only on fame and money will see all others under the same light, but the fact remains that we are not all alike, ye we see only what we are. Carlos will be seen by many as they themselves are, not as the man(or warrior) that he really is.
I know a real practicioner and I know with absolute conviction of how real and amazing the wholle things is. What's more.... they had never heard about the books and only now they do, because they are not easy to find in spanish.

They can be downloaded in their entirety (spanish only).

[Akasha7]

Hi Hari,



Even if all that speculation were true,

To get off on an accurate footing here, much is not speculation but documented fact.



it does not discount the fact of the existance of true nawalism (like hinduism) exactly as portrayed in the books

It's not at all as portrayed in the books. Look up the Gait of Power, copy how to do it, and try running around like that in the night LOL.


Those who meditate only on fame and money will see all others under the same light, but the fact remains that we are not all alike, ye we see only what we are. Carlos will be seen by many as they themselves are, not as the man(or warrior) that he really is.
Yes, that's an old verbal trick and sometimes even true, but very often not. You are saying I see a mirror of myself in my comments on Castaneda - not at all, and quite the opposite. I love truth for one thing, and am not materialist. He seems to have had a problem living truthfully.



I know a real practicioner and I know with absolute conviction of how real and amazing the wholle things is. Real esotericism is real, I totally agree with you. I'm not disputing that. Point is that Castaneda leads real seekers away from methods that work. Even away from the true and valid goals of the inner life.

Akasha

[Hari]

Hi Hari,



To get off on an accurate footing here, much is not speculation but documented fact.

It's not at all as portrayed in the books. Look up the Gait of Power, copy how to do it, and try running around like that in the night LOL.

Yes, that's an old verbal trick and sometimes even true, but very often not. You are saying I see a mirror of myself in my comments on Castaneda - not at all, and quite the opposite. I love truth for one thing, and am not materialist. He seems to have had a problem living truthfully.

Real esotericism is real, I totally agree with you. I'm not disputing that. Point is that Castaneda leads real seekers away from methods that work. Even away from the true and valid goals of the inner life.

Akasha Even esoteric knowledge and/ or power must give way to wisdom, a warrior
is a step to become a man of knowledge or he or she will be controlled by that power unless there is humility and lack of greed. The problem with trying to do what is read only in books, is that the person is not well prepared for anything of that nature.

True nawalism, like any other spiritual practice, must be done, or at least started under the tutelage of a true and well- experienced mystic.

[BlackBillBlake]

Even esoteric knowledge and/ or power must give way to wisdom, a warrior
is a step to become a man of knowledge or he or she will be controlled by that power unless there is humility and lack of greed. The problem with trying to do what is read only in books, is that the person is not well prepared for anything of that nature.

True nawalism, like any other spiritual practice, must be done, or at least started under the tutelage of a true and well- experienced mystic.
What is a mystic? In most definitions one who knows God. But Don Juan tells CC that God is simply an illusion. So I don't see how a mystic could help one follow nagualism.

But - even if these books weren't the fantasy they are, Do Juan also makes it clear that he is the last of his lineage - so where on earth are you going to find your nagual?

[Hari]

What is a mystic? In most definitions one who knows God. But Don Juan tells CC that God is simply an illusion. So I don't see how a mystic could help one follow nagualism.

But - even if these books weren't the fantasy they are, Do Juan also makes it clear that he is the last of his lineage - so where on earth are you going to find your nagual? Most certainly not on earth.

Well in hinduism for instance you'll find in the Bhagavatam Durvasa who is a Mystic and intended to kill with his mystic powers a devotee of Vishnu and created a powerful demon form his own hair,but the Sudarsana chakra killed the demon and went after Durvasa who ran everywhere in the universe looking for help, and finally Vishnu told him he needed to go back to whom he ofended. When he did that the vaishnava prayed to the Sudarsana Chakra and then Durvas was spared. Durvas was an impersonalist and the Vishavs are not Mystics but simply worship Vishnu.
Don juan was an impersonlist and that is not the highest state but its certainly a very high station.

Don Juan was not the last of the lineage either, and many who leave the planet stay in other dimentions helping the living, and this is an eternal task. Many of us came here for something and we all have lived many lives. "there was never a time when neither you nor I, nor these kings were not" Bhagavad-Gita.,

[BlackBillBlake]

Most certainly not on earth.

True nawalism, like any other spiritual practice, must be done, or at least started under the tutelage of a true and well- experienced mystic.

There's a contradiction there. If you can't find a teacher on earth, where are you going to find one? Don't reply 'in another world' or something like that, as without the teacher to begin with, it would seem very unlikely you'd be in touch with other worlds or dimensions.

[Hari]

There's a contradiction there. If you can't find a teacher on earth, where are you going to find one? Don't reply 'in another world' or something like that, as without the teacher to begin with, it would seem very unlikely you'd be in touch with other worlds or dimensions.
Perhaps not everyone, although it is possible, we have had our enconters with power in many lives before.....an earthly guru is essential to remind one
of his link to spirit, yet some are so advanced that even as children they can enter into unknown dimentions..and even their children also begin early in life even as early as 4.

[BlackBillBlake]

Perhaps not everyone, although it is possible, we have had our enconters with power in many lives before.....an earthly gurus is essential to remind one
of his link to spirit,ye some are so advanced that even as children they can enter into unknown dimentions..and even their children alos begin early in life even as early as 4.
The word guru comes from hinduism. A guru is supposed to connect you to God.
But Don Juan says God doesn't exist, so clearly, a guru would not be much use.
A guru can't be equated with the nagual.

From the standpoint of CC's books it is very hard to see where previous lives could fit in.

[Hari]

The word guru comes from hinduism. A guru is supposed to connect you to God.
But Don Juan says God doesn't exist, so clearly, a guru would not be much use.
A guru can't be equated with the nagual.

From the standpoint of CC's books it is very hard to see where previous lives could fit in.
There is impersonal and personal views of God. Both the personal and the impersonal are understood in different ways by different lands, and usually divide in opposite sects and do not ever come to agreement but remain divided. For instance Judaism is very impersonal while Christianity is personal, Shaivism holds on to the idea of Brahman, while vaishnavs worship krishna. In Budhism some believe only in enlightment while others see Budha as worshipable. Everyone joins the sect that appeals more to their thinking.

Remember though, that Don juan although a firm immpersonalist, he did mention "Mescalito" and would say that he "teaches people how to behave". He also emphasised that without the benefactor nothing can be acomplished; the benefactor forces one into knowlledge since those who are willing are l