Moving Server to USA? [Archive]

Skip

04-13-2008, 05:02 PM

As many of you know, our hosting company is currently located in Amsterdam. It's been there for the last 4 years as a precaution against overly zealous US gov't spying, which imo voids people's privacy rights.

In addition by hosting the server in a country with such a liberal reputation, the US gov't would have a hard time getting the Dutch to force our host to release info about our users. They can't subpoena another country.

However the current devaluation of the US dollar now means that we are paying TWICE as much for this server as a similar (or better) system in the US would cost.

And since our USER SUPPORT isn't enough to pay for that overseas server, we may be forced to make this move regardless of the consequences.

If we were to move the server, we could no longer protect our users as well as we do now. The gov't could subpoena our new hosting company for info (logs), and we wouldn't even know about it!

OK, so that's the bad news. The good news is things have changed over the past 4 years that make this scenario less likely to impact our users.

First of all the spy capability of the US gov't has nearly made it irrelevant where the server lives. They can pretty much find out what they need to know without subpoenas.

Second, we are on the verge of having a new gov't in the US, so when the Bushies are gone, hopefully the damage they've done to privacy will be fixed, and this will be much less of an issue.

Third, in the 12 years I've been a webmaster of many websites, we've only received one subpoena (cause someone threatened the president). So this hasn't been a big issue. I don't know whether that is due to the fact that the server is in Amsterdam or because so few ppl are actually breaking laws via our websites.

So I'm asking you ppl what you think about moving the site. My hand will be forced to make the move if there isn't sufficient support from our users to pay the extra amount needed to keep the server where it is.

Our current server is more than 4 years old, the hard drive is full and the processors are maxing out with our increasing traffic, so a decision must be made soon.

For those who want us to stay in Amsterdam, you can help out by supporting the site (http://www.hipforums.com/forums/donate.php).

hippiehillbilly

04-13-2008, 05:54 PM

well skip i think it would be a dangerous move to move it to the united states given the present political climate here,however i dont think you should feel obligated to try an insure your users safety either.
id love to contribute again,unfortunately the economic situation leaves me with 0 justifiable disposable income,and i fear im probably not the only one in that situation.

so i guess what i suggest is to do what you have to do to remain financially stable as long as you can..

maybe,when ya make the move put a big disclaimer up warning folks that while this may be a free speech forum your now subject to U.S. law..

i dunno..

good luck in whatever you decide..

Roach

04-13-2008, 07:23 PM

Surley you can find a country with cheaper servers with more liberal policies than America?

orison319

04-13-2008, 07:40 PM

Shale

04-13-2008, 07:58 PM

Damn!

I just found this place and was amazed at its libertine bent. Been going thru threads that started in 2005 and still continue and have noticed that there are old farts like me able to bridge the conversations with teens.

In fact, seeing the 14 and 15-year-old kids posting on all the sexually oriented threads was a real pleasure that I'm afraid American Puritanism will somehow be able to end, like on MySpace. (They ban the most innocuous pix with the admonition that there are 14-year-old members)

Even Literotica of which I am a contributor is very touchy about all the little puritanical laws. So, some virgin is seducing her daddy and she is 18 years old? You have to be 18 even in the written porn to satisfy some inflated age of consent crap of the US. I've changed some of my 16 and 17 year old characters in stories posted there and it sounds contrived.

So, it was refreshing to see the inclusion of pubescent teens on a site with adult conversations, even down to the nitty-gritty discussion of how-to sex. Do you know if that will have to change?

I know the reality of finances. BTW, I would donate, but I don't want to use plastic. I could send a check but you don't accept checks. There may be others here who could send small donations or even the $15 a year that don't use plastic (We are Hippies after all).

Skip

04-13-2008, 09:10 PM

Surley you can find a country with cheaper servers with more liberal policies than America?Not really. America is still a Free Speech bastion, despite the trashing of our constitution by Bush. You'd be surprised how restricted you are in other countries now. Things have gotten far more restrictive over the years elsewhere, and the long arm of the US has forced other countries to cooperate and give the US anything it wants.

Some countries might not object to the political content of the site, but instead restrict the sexually explicit content. Others would be vice versa.

Most other countries charge a LOT more for servers, esp. the bandwidth. I believe the bandwidth price is currently cheaper in the US than any other country in the world! In other countries the telecoms are more monopolistic and charge far more for bandwidth. In other countries the taxes are much higher too, so the prices for everything is more.

rastapasta

04-13-2008, 09:35 PM

Skip

04-13-2008, 09:40 PM

I really havent been on here to much, but I seriously think it would be a very bad idea to move to the server to the United States. a very bad idea..im a little scared now.. and not much scares me...

its possable the us goverment will change with newly elected officials but by how much? could the forum users feel safe after bushs regime is gone?Of course that would depend upon who gets elected. If it's McCain, I really doubt anything would change at all. Hillary & Obama might ease up on things, and with a democratically controlled congress, it would be much easier to change back.

Again if the US gov't wants you, they have ways of finding you. If they haven't so far (and you have no BIG reason to fear), then they really don't give a shit what you're doing, and are only interested in real criminals.

In fact, let's look at a possible scenario. Some idiot comes on here wanting to sell drugs. Needless to say they'll get banned as soon as we find out. But let's say they make a post that attracts the attention of the authorities. Well first, it's going to have to be a LOCAL LEO who would need to see it and respond. Then the idiot would have to establish direct contact with the LEO, usually thru other means than this forum.

So anyone who would possibly be at risk of getting busted would need to engage a LEO OUTSIDE this forum. At that point they are beyond any protection we could give them, indeed we wouldn't protect anyone doing something illegal ON THIS SITE, or offsite anyway!

Now let's look at a second scenario, that might affect regular members. If someone is doing an mj grow and posts it up on our site, yes they are taking a risk, as they always have. Using proxies does help to an extent. But more likely a LEO would need more than that to take action. Again a LOCAL LEO would need to be involved, they'd have to get the IP# to track the person down.

For it to be worth the time and effort, it would have to be a BIG grow, and I'm not seeing anyone sharing pix from something big.

And in many places in the US it's now LEGAL to grow in your home for your own use, so there is NOTHING illegal going on, esp. as far as LOCAL law enforcement is concerned.

So if a LEO spots a grow, they would first have to KNOW it is in their area, it would have to be a state where it is illegal, it would have to be of a significant size to warrant the effort.

But if the poster doesn't state where they live, there is NO WAY for a random LEO browsing the forums to get that info. And they're not likely to get a subpoena until they have that info.

So you see it's really only the feds that should concern us, unless you are a complete idiot and try do engage a LEO in an illegal transaction. And the Feds have better things to do than raiding someone's closet for a few plants. They only target high profile Big grows like Eddy Lepp's 30,000 plant outdoor grow next to a highway! Put yourself in their faces like that and they'll respond for sure!

Last scenario is adult/child sexually explicit interactions. Obviously kiddie porn has never been an issue since it's prohibited on just about every website on the planet now. Kids viewing porn is so ubiquitous, the few incidental naked images that appear in our REGULAR forums are not likely to impact any kid in a negative way anymore than they would an adult.

Our Erotica forums (only two very slow forums) and Erotic Gallery (likewise very slow) are restricted to paid members over 18 years old. So as far as images go, we are completely legal under US law.

As previously mentioned we do have a gray area where it comes to discussing sex with "children". Of course there should be no one on this site under 13, so we are really talking about teenagers here. Teenagers who should've had sex ed classes by the age of 13. If not, then what we provide is important information in a free-speech environment where they can ask anything and get a range of answers.

Discussing sex on an open forum is hardly the same thing as trying to seduce a minor in private. Any law enforcement would need to prove a lot before they could take any action against a member of this site.

And don't forget age limits vary not only by country, but by state too. So there are lots of variables involved.

The problem is Americans and LEOs all think the world is just like America, therefore American laws apply to everyone. Well they DON'T! So there are big issues of jurisdiction, International law including Human Rights that need to be considered.

I suppose in the worst case scenario we all might have to monitor ourselves a bit more (esp. if you're living in the USA). So you might have to think twice about sending an explicit PM to a minor. Big deal. We should be doing that anyway.

So really the likelihood of any member actually being put more at risk is minor, but enough for me to make this thread, so that you can know what the added risk is...

soaringeagle

04-13-2008, 09:42 PM

id support moving it to the us for purely performance and cost effectiveness reasons
id guess 85% of the users are us based? maybe lil less but a large majority and the perforemance from here lately has sucked balls
the server crashes a few timers a day and when its up it takes forever to respond to clicks
the search and other features just stopped working right and basicly its just dragging

moving to a cheap high capacity server makes sence just for the life of the forums
also, look at how many new users arive daily..the community is expanding quickly
and as things do get more messy here it will expand far far faster
and the hip community will need to grow and expand and discuss more important issues then prepubescent sexuality (why was that even brought up?)

like you said youd only been subpeonad once for some serius criminal crap even after some ppl i know of had reported 1 guy for posting info about rapes and possibly murder there was no subpeonas (or actions taken) i think theres a huge amount of paranioa going around
speaking of prepubescent sexuality im betting theres over a million child porn servers based in the usa that woiuld be the focus of investigations long before hipforums

hell look at all the hippie dippie left wing liberal crap we post all over every day and we barely even get noticed by the right wing concervatives who number in the millions let alone by fbi or cia or dea out to bust anyone

face it..theyre not payin that close attention to us

skip..post the server access logs (i know they must be huge) but how many hits do u get from fbi.gov domains?
im sure a few but not many right? (ive worked at hosting companies and i know practicly every site will get a few hits from surprising sources but that sure dont mean theres official investigations from those sources)

i'm not paraniod so i wouldnt care if it is moved
(and keep in mind u said u had 1 supeona for a kid sayin he wanted to kill the poresident..and i am the only 1 on here that i know of who was ever arressted for conspiracy to shoot the president (yea was a huge joke) and posted about it on here

skip yoiur jobs to run a website
its not to protect the stupid from stupidity
if someone wants to post the address of theyre meth lab and gets busted thats not your fault for hosting the site in a certain place, its the fault of the idiot who posted..

your responcibility lies in keeping the site up and running smoothly..and not in protecting criminals who post theyre crimes

the users must excersize a lil sensibility in what they choose to post
no matter where the sites hosted

Skip

04-13-2008, 09:50 PM

us govt is bad news skip. look into canada if you must, and how much power the us has to supena there. things could get real bad if you moved to usa, it would only take 1 15 year old kid to post 1 revealing pic for 1 hour and you would find yourself with prison time. not to mention every mention of drugs and you would have feds looking into you. if anyone thinks that that type of shit is just theory, or wont really happen they are wrong. i had to stop coming on the internet all together and stopped using my name I trust Canada even less than the US. After Canada worked hand in hand with the DEA in the Mark Emory and Overgrow cases, it seems you're MORE at risk with a server in Canada. It's way too easy for them to confiscate your server and dissect it as we've seen. In addition there have been major inroads made into privacy rights in Canada recently. There may be less protection now than ever.

And should we have to fight the authorities, it's far easier to do it in the US than a foreign country.

BTW I should point something out that I forgot to earlier...

The server would be hosted at a company that supports FREE SPEECH. They've looked over our sites and found NO PROBLEMS with it...

So it's an American company that would fight for our rights too.

The company we are considering is beachcomber.net

You can check them out yourselves... :)

rastapasta

04-13-2008, 09:59 PM

Of course

As previously mentioned we do have a gray area where it comes to discussing sex with "children". Of course there should be no one on this site under 13, so we are really talking about teenagers here. Teenagers who should've had sex ed classes by the age of 13. If not, then what we provide is important information in a free-speech environment where they can ask anything and get a range of answers.

Discussing sex on an open forum is hardly the same thing as trying to seduce a minor in private. Any law enforcement would need to prove a lot before they could take any action against a member of this site.

And don't forget age limits vary not only by country, but by state too. So there are lots of variables involved.

actually 13 is treated exactly the same a 5 in the US. and speaking from experience, leo feels that he does not need prove anything to take action. i am speaking from a very real experience, until you get embroiled in the legal system yourself, you think that there are powers and processes that protect you, but it is not the case.
as far as growing pot is concerned, i think you have idealistic views on this too.
all im saying is that you may want to research thouroughly before makin a move.

Skip

04-13-2008, 10:02 PM

Soaring Eagle, you make several good points.

#1 - Nobody is likely to get in trouble unless someone files a complaint. Even though there may be cops scanning the site from time to time, the odds of them finding anything illegal and acting upon it are minuscule.

#2 - You are absolutely right that I don't need to protect those who are too stupid to act like responsible adults.

#3 - Most illegal acts occur outside this website. So we aren't responsible for that at all.

#4 - Yes, our server is on its last leg. Something must be done soon. I'm sure there's a lot of newbies who encounter site problems who leave and never come back. and it's frustrating for everyone, me especially, to have to deal with a slow server that goes down often.

Just so you know, I don't go thru our logs looking for anything, much less LEOs doing their jobs. So I can't say how many are coming here. Believe me when they do, they hide their own identities well. And in many cases where it comes to "children" they use outside agents to conduct their scans as revealed by the Predator TV series (they hire a private company whose employees pretend to be minors so they can entrap adults).

So if we do make this move, we must all be more circumspect in our postings. That's all that needs to change.

And remember this: I'm probably one of the most paranoid ppl you'll ever know. Not that I have a reason to be, just my nature (growing up in NYC you can't help it).

So I'd be the first one to worry. That's why I've had the server in Amsterdam all this time. I don't trust the Bushit Administration, with good reason. But hopefully that will soon be history...

Skip

04-13-2008, 10:06 PM

actually 13 is treated exactly the same a 5 in the US. and speaking from experience, leo feels that he does not need prove anything to take action. i am speaking from a very real experience, until you get embroiled in the legal system yourself, you think that there are powers and processes that protect you, but it is not the case.
as far as growing pot is concerned, i think you have idealistic views on this too.
all im saying is that you may want to research thouroughly before makin a move.Again, not really. 13 (or 14) yr olds can get married in some states. That's hardly treating them like a 5 yr old.

If you break the LAW nobody's gonna protect you. Period.

This site isn't about breaking laws, got it?

If it was ILLEGAL for an adult to discuss sexuality with a minor, there's a LOT of teachers who should be in jail.

rastapasta

04-14-2008, 12:20 AM

Skip

04-14-2008, 08:23 AM

i completely agree with your logic skip. but in most states if you talk sex with a 13 year old, the law views it in the same way as you talking it to a 5 year old. even if that 13 year old pretends that shes 18 or older.Well when kids lie there's not much anyone can do. Show me what law you're talking about, cause I'm not familiar with it. Lewdness with a minor is a crime yes, just like it can be considered sexual intimidation or harrassment when a co-worker does it. But discussing sexual functions is not lewdness, otherwise teachers couldn't do it.

Obviously engaging in sex talk with a minor in a PUBLIC forum will come under scrutiny by people who can see to it that the discussion remains above board.

Engaging in lewd discussions one-on-one in PM or private chat with a minor is another matter entirely and subject to legal restrictions depending upon age and location. So we cannot possibly monitor and control such actions in real time, nor is it our business to.

The law seems to be putting the onus on parents, not websites, for policing what children do.

soaringeagle

04-14-2008, 08:35 AM

as far as im concerned if the biggest issue with moving the server is some ppl might get in trouble for sexual conversations with 13 year olds then lets direct them to namblas sight and be rid of em..

orison319

04-14-2008, 08:58 AM

what is a sexual conversation with a 13 year old SE? when a 13 year old pops up and says I masturbate with string tied to my penis. and you say you shouldnt do that it harmful and end it there. are you going to get arressted for a single post, thats intended for educational reasons.
sure bet theres predator. but how this forum is different than myspace coms' is the Adults here arnt blind and to whats going on in the world accually. And no other site would even care to ask its members about servers being moved, they would just move em.
While on the drug aspect.. local leo knows dozens of people here and he dont give a shit about some weed smokers. Orginized crime figures dont do business here.
and they know that. once you start a big enough fire poeple are going to notice you.. take a picture of 20 plants and post it.. local leo says look how cute. post a pic of a acre and plan to hear Helicopters' its common sence.

though I said the move to the US would scare me.. The Laws that govern these form of communications are some what protected and we do know about certain legal moves sometimes before they move to make them up against us. just be aware this is the United States and you do have the right to vote! Things do change. not as fast as you like em .. but they do change..

shameless_heifer

04-14-2008, 02:10 PM

Move it Skip.. do what you can afford.. Just by this thread ppl are warned, if they didn't know before, they know now to be cool. That is what HIP is, being Cool.Don't put yourself out there to be busted.. you wouldn't sell drugs at the copshop or try to pickup a minor for sexual purposes there either.. not saying that LEOs are a large threat here.. but to say.. hold your mug and be cool.. you don't know who your really talking to in some cases. I a way it could be a good thing and keep the preditors away from our kids in here. Which do need protection at times bc they are kids and have not yet gained the knowledge that enlightens them to the dangers in the world.

We all should be cool in the way we expose ourselves or porteay ourselves in here. I also don't see why a 60 yr old woulld be interested in 13 yr old sex.. to me that's a little over the top. Education is one thing but exploytation is quiet another.

If your put a pic of pot up esp if your in the pic, then you need a little more education on the ways of the world.. like I said just BE COOL!!

Skip you have taken more crap off ppl then anyone I know. You do what is best for the site. You have Moderators to keep the place clean. I think we are doing a good job of it so far. You need to save your energies on the site and what is best for you/your finances. If ya ain't fuckin' up there's nothin' to fear, right?

Bright Blessings
sh

drumminmama

04-14-2008, 03:31 PM

Skip

04-14-2008, 05:11 PM

skip, it seems that a move to the US is economically logical at this time.
both for the server itself and possible legal moves.
if we need to put erotica in a different supporter only section, well, that's no big deal.
plus a subscription for that area could net some cash to keep the whole site up!The erotica forums and galleries are only accessible by supporters now, so I don't have to change that. We're already protected as far as that goes. :)

Thanks for all the feedback. I like what SH said about the mods. The mods here do a great job, and because of them I can feel more relaxed about doing such a move because they are always looking out for our members.

Indeed this site is better than most because we do clue the naive into the ways of the Internet so that they don't fuck up and get themselves busted over some easily avoidable incident.

Hell, they even moderate stupidity! When someone posts up obvious pig bait, it's usually deleted promptly, protecting both the poster and those who might respond stupidly. Likewise when a stupid narc posts up some bait like "need weed", we are on top of those.

And of course with our bad post reporting system, anyone can complain about a post that they feel is illegal or violates our guidelines. So we are really self-policing, and that's probably why there have been so few legal incidents on this site.

I think most people, ESPECIALLY kids are already internet savvy and recent studies have shown the Internet to be far safer for kids than having them walk out the door into the real world. That's where the real trouble lies...

stinkfoot

04-14-2008, 05:48 PM

Whatever decision you make will be fine... My suspicion and distrust of the United States has me holding back from being completely enthusiastic about relocating servers and endorsing what makes the most sense from a fiscal standpoint.

On that note I'd strongly urge that the love and sex section be revisited as far as what's going to be viewable by the general population... perhaps set a few of the subforums to have posts moderated as the images that show up in the body shot thread could be fodder for those with an agenda.

Skip

04-14-2008, 07:40 PM

I have considered moving the Real Kinky forum over to the Erotica forums but there is a lot of interesting information there that should be available to everyone.

We just need to stay on top of ppl posting porn in the wrong place. There should be none visible to the general public in the Love and Sex forum.

As you can see there really isn't even a need to alter our Guidelines if we move the server to the US because our guidelines already state that nothing illegal should be posted on the site.

I will say the one noticeable difference between Dutch & US laws does concern the age of consent. I believe it is still set at 12 yrs old in the Netherlands (under specific circumstances). While it varies from state to state in the US. Plus the Dutch are just far more tolerant when it comes to sex, but things HAVE CHANGED a lot in Holland in the last few years since I moved from there. It's got way more conservative with a Christian MINISTER as the head of gov't. And the Dutch cooperate far more with US authorities than they did before, kowtowing to anything the US asks of them...

So don't be so sure the Dutch will shield you. It will probably depend upon which US agency does the asking...

neodude1212

04-14-2008, 07:54 PM

meh....

I say move it. As long as nothing illegal is being done, I dont see why having the server here in the states would be a big deal.

Skip

04-14-2008, 08:46 PM

meh....

I say move it. As long as nothing illegal is being done, I dont see why having the server here in the states would be a big deal.Well like others have said, IF anything illegal IS being done here, people doing it will be slightly more at risk.

More than likely it's the same risk as before, except we all might have to monitor things more closely so that we comply with the law.

But really the onus is on every member to know what is legal and illegal where they live and to comply with their local laws.

zihger

04-14-2008, 10:30 PM

I think now days a lot of people are either over paranoid of the U.S. or have a false sense of security in other countries. Yeah laws suck in the U.S…. but a lot of other countries have even less civil rights protection then the U.S.
I haven’t been on this site very long and haven’t really looked at the sex categories so I don’t know much about any legal gray areas that might be going on, maybe an age disclaimer?

I wouldn’t worry about it too much I haven’t seen to much on here that would attract much attention from LE.

If people want a host in another country they can donate and make it happen.

Shale

04-15-2008, 01:08 AM

I have considered moving the Real Kinky forum over to the Erotica forums but there is a lot of interesting information there that should be available to everyone...The thing I liked about discovering this forum was seeing the community of young teens mixed with us old libertine farts. Now, I guess there could be potential for some old fart to try to make it with a young teen, but like you say that will happen anywhere and is not the responsibility of the site unless it is blatant and in a public forum.

What I fear is the overreaction stuff that is so common in the US that the Dutch don't much bother with. I've seen too much of the overreaction on MySpace which succumbs to the lowest common denominator of prudery and deletes any pic that MIGHT be controversial (unless it is thru their own Drewpydraws - see my blog on MySpace Hypocrisy)

So, some 13-year-old guy asks me a legit question on sexuality. "Sometimes I shoot off for 3 feet and other times it just oozes out - is that normal?" "While playing around with my G/F I got a pain in my balls and could hardly walk. What is wrong with me?" "Why is there a line in the middle of my ball sack?"

I'm all for answering those and explaining in the most straightforward way what it is. There are some prudes who would object to a 60-year-old man communicating this to a 13-year-old boy. (I am a grampa and my own 13-yr-old grandson actually asked me one of those questions and I could talk candidly about those things with him - y'know the age-old role of the elder as a source of knowledge and experience).

So, that is what concerns me about having any US oversight to this board. Actually, in a thread about testicular self exams, I did link to my Maintenance Manual for Male Private Parts, which is geared for guys who don't know about their body and it is on Literotica. Now that is an adult site, but apparently doesn't challenge a link to an article. The info I linked to is in a pamphlet that I distribute to anyone interested, regardless of age, because it is basically just educational material. But, you think someone would get bent out of shape over it?

floydianslip6

04-15-2008, 03:43 AM

I wouldn't worry about the move. It's easy for some users to sit around and fret and look out the window awaiting black ash and spiders to fall from the sky and signal the apocalypse. But I doubt that most of the users on here even gave a thought to where the server lived before you made this post.

As you said in your OP, subpoena or not the gov will get its info whether it be by the letter of the law or not, so what's the dif? I was a webmaster of a private site for a while, we did what we could to lock down the site to the LEOs, what more can the end user ask?

We can't be the internets beacon of security, as much as we'd like to be. Unless one of us wants to get a direct line and a ProLient server and host it ourselves we're always at the mercy of someone. I would say try to host with someone with a decent reputation.

It's not like the server is going to move and the FBI is going to be dancing a jig and SSH'ing in all of a sudden.

No worries here, keep up the good work.

Ever looked at www.brinkster.com? (http://www.brinkster.com?) I host a lot of sites there, they aren't bad.

Skip

04-15-2008, 07:47 PM

Floydianslip that hosting company doesn't even offer what we need in terms of dedicated server power.

Well folks this doesn't look good. Although a lot of you want us to stay in Europe and I want to stay too, there doesn't seem to be enough financial support to pay for it.

So unless someone puts a crowbar in an overstuffed wallet, all our sites will be moved to the USA to save on hosting fees...

The difference in price between the Amsterdam and US servers is around $350 a month (which I would have to shell out of my own pocket in addition to what I do already). So unless we find a benefactor who can come up with that amount we will move soon.

Let me know if you want to donate so I hold off on this move!

coders333

04-15-2008, 08:49 PM

skip, i have been wondering. what are the specs of the current server, also what sort of bandwidth does it take for this site.

Captain Cannabis

04-15-2008, 08:55 PM

Can you move it anywhere else?

Skip

04-15-2008, 09:09 PM

Can you move it anywhere else?I've already explained that this is the best deal I can find with a company that allows free speech. Servers and bandwidth costs lots more in other countries.

skip, i have been wondering. what are the specs of the current server, also what sort of bandwidth does it take for this site.We need the top of the line server (twin quad core xeons), 400 gigs a month at least (the one we're looking at offers 2000 gigs a month). I am sooooo damn tired of having to watch our bandwidth use every fucking day so we don't go over.

warmhands420

04-15-2008, 11:23 PM

neodude1212

04-15-2008, 11:25 PM

I really dont think the US will be all over you. Move it and save money man.

Skip

04-15-2008, 11:35 PM

I will pledge $50 a month starting next month, May, I am going back to work after a year off and need to catch up on some things first. If 6 or more others can share the rest of the load.... Don't be fooled into thinking that the government is going to get better when the Democrats take over, it was a California Democrat that sponsored H.R.1955. If it does become law a lot of what I've read at Hip Forums will be illegal thought/speech. Do every thing you can to keep this site out of Uncle Sams reach. He is not to be trusted. Your not paranoid when they really are out to get you.;)Thanks for the offer, but the $350 difference must be paid EVERY month, as the shortfall from donations always comes out of my pocket EVERY month now. So it's not like a one time shot in the arm is going to cover our costs... That's not how it works. :(

Deep pockets are needed on an ongoing basis. I was hoping our new MJ Guide would help cover costs (via advertising), but that's apparently not going to happen in time.

As far as H.R. 1955 here's a summary:
Please note what I bolded.
10/23/2007--Passed House amended.
Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 - Amends the Homeland Security Act of 2002 to add a new section concerning the prevention of violent radicalization (an extremist belief system for facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change) and homegrown terrorism (violence by a group or individual within the United States to coerce the U.S. government, the civilian population, or a segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives).
Establishes within the legislative branch the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism to: (1) examine and report on facts and causes of violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence in the United States; and (2) build upon, bring together, and avoid unnecessary duplication of related work done by other entities toward such goal. Requires: (1) interim reports and a final report from the Commission to the President and Congress on its findings and recommendations; (2) the public availability of such reports; and (3) Commission termination 30 days after its final report.
Directs the Secretary of Homeland Security to establish or designate a university-based Center of Excellence for the Study of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism in the United States to assist federal, state, local, and tribal homeland security officials, through training, education, and research, in preventing violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism in the United States. Requires the Secretary to: (1) conduct a survey of methodologies implemented by foreign nations to prevent violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism; and (2) report to Congress on lessons learned from survey results.
Prohibits Department of Homeland Security (DHS) efforts to prevent ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism from violating the constitutional and civil rights or civil liberties of U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents. Directs the: (1) Secretary to ensure that activities and operations are in compliance with DHS's commitment to racial neutrality; and (2) DHS Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Officer to develop and implement an auditing system to ensure that compliance does not violate the constitutional and civil rights or civil liberties of any racial, ethnic, or religious group, and to include audit results in its annual report to Congress.

So this bill only creates a STUDY of the matter. It does not set into law anything new restricting our freedoms that I can see in this summary. In fact it does PROHIBIT DHS from infringing upon civil rights & liberties, so that is a GOOD thing to have in the law.

I don't see anything here that references the Internet, Freedom of Speech, etc. I really doubt this site could be viewed as encouraging violent terrorism. That would be more like a skinhead site.

Of course this bill would need to be worked out with the Senate who might change some of the provisions. If there is more to this bill, please let me know.

Skip

04-15-2008, 11:39 PM

Ooops, I did see this line:
`(3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.

That would definitely concern us!

But that is simply a "finding" that led them to create this bill, which again is simply to STUDY the issue, and does not create new law or infringe further upon our current rights.

Piney

04-16-2008, 01:06 AM

I would like to see more Hippies support the site.

People, send in the $10.00 by pay pal.

Understand how much Hip Forums will change if it becomes based in The US.

This is a conforatable home for some working hippies, send in your support. Plenty of Moderators volunteering for free, show them you care.

:hurray:

neodude1212

04-16-2008, 04:13 AM

warmhands420

04-16-2008, 07:02 AM

Skip, I was referring to the video posted by hippiehillbilly that explains HR 1955 better than I ever could. The offer of money is a pledge for each and every month. I'll take it out of my smoke budget. I will send the first payment on the first of May by paypal. I only signed on to paypal so I could make direct payments here. But if you decide the move to the states is in the sites best interest I'll go along for the ride. Q: What is the biggest lie most often told? A: I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

Pennyroyal_Tea

04-16-2008, 07:16 AM

As far as the law goes, if there's any discussion of illegal activity on here (dealing, using, etc.) plausible deniability. You can simply say that you posted for attention. They really would have burden of proof, which they wouldn't be able to provide if you didn't have anything on you.

I dunno about the server being in the states...

You actually need 400GB of bandwidth per month? Good God... How many sites are we talking here?

Skip

04-16-2008, 04:10 PM

You actually need 400GB of bandwidth per month? Good God... How many sites are we talking here?This site and the galleries take up most of the bandwidth. Most of our slower sites that don't need to be overseas have already been moved off this server onto a cheap one in the states to allow more bandwidth for these two.

In case you haven't noticed, HipForums traffic doubled in the last year. We now get way more than 1,000 simultaneous users during peak hours every day on just this site. Most sites with that kind of traffic with databases usually require two or more servers to do what ours does now. Fortunately the top-of-the-line servers can now handle that load, but ours hasn't been top-of-the-line for 4 years.

Skip

04-16-2008, 04:25 PM

Skip, I was referring to the video posted by hippiehillbilly that explains HR 1955 better than I ever could. The offer of money is a pledge for each and every month. I'll take it out of my smoke budget.Well that would be great, esp. if we could find 6 more to do that. Basically it would require us to more than double our average monthly donations, which seems unlikely to happen. And with the current economic situation our donations are way down as people have less money for anything.

I am even considering putting up a banner that reads: "Got Rebate? Please Donate!" for next month when everyone is supposed to get those $600 IRS checks. :)

But you see moving the server is the easiest solution that doesn't require us to beg for donations.

At this moment I'm still a bit leery about making the move. One thing bothering me: I just found out our cheap server would live in Texas! Not my preferred state by any means! But as far as Feds are concerned, it probably doesn't matter. I'm not sure if local laws would be an issue.

stinkfoot

04-16-2008, 05:16 PM

Well that would be great, esp. if we could find 6 more to do that. Basically it would require us to more than double our average monthly donations, which seems unlikely to happen. And with the current economic situation our donations are way down as people have less money for anything.

I am even considering putting up a banner that reads: "Got Rebate? Please Donate!" for next month when everyone is supposed to get those $600 IRS checks. :)

But you see moving the server is the easiest solution that doesn't require us to beg for donations.

At this moment I'm still a bit leery about making the move. One thing bothering me: I just found out our cheap server would live in Texas! Not my preferred state by any means! But as far as Feds are concerned, it probably doesn't matter. I'm not sure if local laws would be an issue.
I don't know... being the thorn not only in Bush's side but also in his back yard could be a satisfying little twist of irony.

Skip

04-16-2008, 06:01 PM

GOOD NEWS!!!

Our Dutch hosting company has come up with a better deal on a new server (after I pointed out that they were charging double what an American based server would cost).

I've still got a few details to work out with them, such as the length of the contract, but we may be able to keep it where it is with your support!

We'd have to cut back on a couple of extras to save some money, but we wouldn't have to move. :)

I also inquired into the latest dutch law regarding the Internet and whether the US can command the Dutch to release info and also the current age of consent in the Netherlands. Things have changed there so we need to know their current laws.

I REALLY don't want our server in Texas!!! I think that would be the exact opposite of having it Amsterdam!

Shale

04-16-2008, 07:59 PM

I can't commit to regular monthly support, but I am sending a check to the address you posted. I'm sure any donation will be appreciated. Like someone said if we could all send ten bucks.

I've only been here for little over a week but can see that this site is worth supporting. It seems unique and I have already met some regular members who I can feel an afinity toward.

And with all the yunguns and old gramps like me the place seems to have balance. Why I wouldn't want to isolate the 14 yr olds into some special group where frank explicit conversation was limited - life is not so divided (or it shouldn't be) and I think the European connection is why that happens here.

Damn, gotta go to work. Bye

M4N14C42O

04-17-2008, 06:27 AM

REALLY hoping you'll be able to stay where your at. Ill donate whenever I can. A move to the US would have me scurrying to delete all my photos and journals..........really hoping I don't have to do this.

After your last post im alittle more relieved......but still, keep us posted. I NEED to know. Thanks Skip. My donation will be made shortly.

- 42o -

Tparkboy

04-17-2008, 07:40 PM

Come to Canada, nobody spies on you here because everybody's free unlike every where else.

M4N14C42O

04-17-2008, 09:31 PM

^except the whole overgrow deal and Marc Emery

Skip

04-18-2008, 08:09 PM

Yes, Canada may be MORE fucked up than the US at this point. Fuck Canada! :)

Looks like we're going to stay where we are.

However, it looks like the EU just passed IDENTICAL legislation to what the US House did regarding "recruiting terrorists via the Internet".

Please read this article as the whole situation in Europe may soon change...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7355446.stm

European Union ministers have agreed to punish incitement to terrorism through the internet.

At a meeting in Luxembourg, EU justice and interior ministers tightened existing laws.

Public provocation to commit terrorist attacks, as well as recruiting and training people for terrorism will be punishable offences throughout the EU.

The ministers also agreed on an action plan to prevent terrorist groups from getting explosives.

EU officials said the decision to punish propaganda, recruitment and training for terrorism through the internet filled an important gap in European legislation.

Early warning system

They described the internet as a virtual training camp for militants, used to inspire and mobilise local groups.

Earlier this month, the EU anti-terrorism co-ordinator, Gilles de Kerchove, said the threat of terrorism in Europe had not diminished and about 5,000 internet sites were being used to radicalise young people.

National courts will now be able to ask internet service providers to remove such sites.

Britain, Spain and Italy already punish public incitement to terrorism.

But under pressure from Nordic countries and civil rights campaigners, ministers made clear that the new provisions may not be used to restrict freedom of expression.

In a separate move to combat terrorism, they agreed to establish an early-warning system on stolen explosives and detonators by the end of the year.

They also resolved to create a database giving police permanent access to information on incidents involving explosive devices.
This means that ANY site that tries to "RADICALIZE young people" might be shut down... regardless of what country is the target of radicalization.

What a FUCKED UP generalized term that is..."radicalize". So I suppose any website that attempts to turn young people onto RIGHT WING radicalization might also be shutdown?

stinkfoot

04-18-2008, 09:07 PM

However, it looks like the EU just passed IDENTICAL legislation to what the US House did regarding "recruiting terrorists via the Internet".

Please read this article as the whole situation in Europe may soon change...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7355446.stm

This means that ANY site that tries to "RADICALIZE young people" might be shut down... regardless of what country is the target of radicalization.

What a FUCKED UP generalized term that is..."radicalize". So I suppose any website that attempts to turn young people onto RIGHT WING radicalization might also be shutdown?
God forbid that anyone gets persuaded to think for themselves. From where I stand, it's the government that's responsible for "radicalizing" people by pursuing policies aimed at enriching their cronies at the considerable expense of so many.. Perhaps the policymakers should imprison themselves. Personally I favor lynching.

Beckner420

04-19-2008, 06:04 AM

man if i get some extra cash ill donate.

shameless_heifer

04-19-2008, 02:30 PM

Hey Skip.. is there any way you could build your own server.. my nephew builds his own server. I talked briefly with him about the problem your having with servers, but I did not know the details of what you need. I am not a geek and don't know much about bandwith or servers, but he is a geek and does know.. but I don't know what to ask. I noticed that you mentioned 400g or something like that.. If I had more detail, perhaps he can build you one.. isn't there a way to hook up with satilite.. no one owns space( air waves) yet ,so could there be a way to run a server through sattilite.
If that is rediculase please don't lol.. just trying to help ya.

Skip

04-19-2008, 04:33 PM

God forbid that anyone gets persuaded to think for themselves. From where I stand, it's the government that's responsible for "radicalizing" people by pursuing policies aimed at enriching their cronies at the considerable expense of so many.. Perhaps the policymakers should imprison themselves. Personally I favor lynching.I was thinking along the same lines as this. Bush & Cheney & even the Christian "Warriors" (those who advocate killing in the name of Jesus) radicalize youth too. It would be GREAT to see those ppl get labeled terrorists and imprisoned under these new laws! Then there would be NO REASON for young LIBERAL people to become radicalized!

coders333

04-19-2008, 04:59 PM

I was thinking along the same lines as this. Bush & Cheney & even the Christian "Warriors" (those who advocate killing in the name of Jesus) radicalize youth too. It would be GREAT to see those ppl get labeled terrorists and imprisoned under these new laws! Then there would be NO REASON for young LIBERAL people to become radicalized!i couldnt possibly agree more.

Tparkboy

04-21-2008, 05:53 PM

That's not Canada's fault. That's America's fault because their fucking ignorant pigs! FREE MARC EMERY! Sign my petition i have up on here. :)

Skip

04-21-2008, 06:30 PM

That's not Canada's fault. That's America's fault because their fucking ignorant pigs! FREE MARC EMERY! Sign my petition i have up on here. :)Sorry but Canada is no longer a Sovereign nation, or haven't you figured that out yet? American law overides Canadian law whenever the US wants it to.

neodude1212

04-30-2008, 01:01 AM

That's not Canada's fault. That's America's fault because their fucking ignorant pigs! FREE MARC EMERY! Sign my petition i have up on here. :)

way to go. nice generalization that all americans are "fucking ignorant pigs"

you must be a humanitarian.

tuatara

04-30-2008, 01:26 AM

one of the reasons that america is getting it's way in canada is because of our current prime minister "shrub" harper ......sorry my english isn't the best ...you know what i mean .."shrub",you know ...a little BUSH

Skip

04-30-2008, 06:21 PM

UPDATE: Good news, we've negotiated a new contract for a new server at the same location in Amsterdam! So at some point next month we will at last have a server that can handle the traffic load!

Thanks to everyone who donated to help out with the new server! :)

warmhands420

05-01-2008, 05:19 PM

What about the price Skip, how much more or less per month?

Skip

05-01-2008, 05:58 PM

What about the price Skip, how much more or less per month? It's still going to cost more than the equivalent US server (about $120 more a month), but it's no longer DOUBLE the price. That's a significant amount, but worth the difference because the support we've gotten from our hosting company is unbeatable.

If you knew how many times I've had to wake these guys up in the middle of the night to get the server running again, you'd understand. Because they're located in Europe, our server's peak hours occur during the middle of the night for them. And it's always been traffic overload that causes our server to go down.

Dual quad core Xeons, here we come! That's 8 processors! Plus two 250 gig HDs. We only had two 37 gig scsi drives before - the server is totally maxed out on storage now. We will be able to allow ppl to store more on the server now, but I'm not sure we'll be able to handle video. That requires a dedicated video server. Thanks to youtube, we may never need to do that. :)

Yup, we are getting the fastest server around (oh you could get faster chips but you'd pay a big premium for a little more speed).

We had discussed getting two servers (one for database, one for webpages and images), but we can probably put that off for awhile now. It seems the speed of the hardware is increasing in a similar proportion to the speed we need to keep up with our website growth.